hivescum-class

[novel oracle]

with all of it active you can eat an entire gunner volley to the face

and he'll have to reload before your toughness breaks

now with the usual dodging sliding etc
any chips you get from these guys are absolutely trivialized

[raw kettle]

The sliding how much does that negate?

[novel oracle]

that dr could be higher too cuz its not accounting for hubris or good balance

[novel oracle]

i literally mean like
sliding to avoid bullets

[ornate fiber]

Dodge is also currently slightly glitched for any class that isnt ogryn

should be fixed in a few days

[livid raven]

a month more like

[raw kettle]

L I

Lol

[novel oracle]

i hate that it even happened

[raw kettle]

Yes fat shark time

[novel oracle]

it was just people whining that nimble didnt work on guns

because it changed dodge speed and dodge linger

dodge linger has never worked on ranged

[livid raven]

i mean if the devs did a change they must have agreed

[novel oracle]

i think it was 100% an "everyone is complaning lets just ship this quick fix out asap then go on winter break"

[ornate fiber]

dodge linger shouldnt exist anyway

[novel oracle]

dodge linger being melee only was literally implemented that way since the launch of the game

they were playing with the idea of having different lingers for melee and ranged

but that ended up not happening and those variables are all unused

so the general variable is used everywhere and only applies to melee

[ornate fiber]

The game is too easy because they keep bringing up news tools and mechanics to the player's advantage

[novel oracle]

not mechanics (excluding the ranged linger thing they just did)

its just they keep buffing players and never nerfing them in any significant way

[ornate fiber]

I had a very hard time with cataclysm in vermintide 2, but i'm cruising through havoc

game is not balanced well

[raw kettle]

It mostly deals with a lot of new players rather not learn mechanics and want to be casual in sweaty difficulty

[ornate fiber]

Its quite telling that the enemies themselves are quite balanced, but its the players who arent

[ornate fiber]

I call it the "Psyker issue"

[raw kettle]

Lol

Smyker issue

[ornate fiber]

Psyker for new players is too hard, so they buff it to make it easier, except psyker for good players is insanely busted

if you nerf it, you essentially doom the class for all the people who cant walk 10 feet without blowing up

[raw kettle]

Lol

I remember how crazy it was starting on psyker back in the day

[ornate fiber]

Now, psyker has everything handed on a silver plate

damage reduction, great abilities, best damage, infinite ammo

[raw kettle]

I am glad though the trees have more variety and it's no longer the number combo for builds

[ornate fiber]

i'm glad they removed the far left and right groups they had going on

made the tree better to go through, yeah

[raw kettle]

Uses to be there were like 5 lines of 3 types of talents and you can only choose 1 of the 3

So builds were described in numbers like 3 1 3 2 1

Or was it 5 lines of 4

Hmm

Fuck it I got my point across

[austere coyote]

if you look at the vt2 talent trees you'll see how they were

[livid raven]

""trees""

[raw kettle]

Oh ok so 3?

[livid raven]

it was uhh

1 talent every 5 levels

and a choice of 3

[raw kettle]

So 6 numbers

[ornate fiber]

Also, a fourth of these talents were almost the same for every class

[austere coyote]

ye

there was always a "generate temp health" row

[raw kettle]

I'm glad it's no longer so basic

[austere coyote]

third row was always stagger, damage to staggered, and a flat strength increase

[ornate fiber]

third row is also often power increase, or stagger or cleave

like you said, right before me

[raw kettle]

Lol

[signal nebula]

it's weird right

[raw kettle]

Now it's more creative

[signal nebula]

Darktide trees are def better than VT2

but VT2 abilities were better

[livid raven]

DT really lacks an ability that is just

[signal nebula]

I really miss things like the weapon ults, Priest bubble, Thorn bush etc

[livid raven]

big attack

or something creative like the minigun

[ornate fiber]

Priest bubble in darktide would be quite funny, but not as insane at it is in vermintide

[signal nebula]

agree, it would be a very cool support ability

[ornate fiber]

man, if zealot had it

[raw kettle]

I mean isn't it what psykers do

[signal nebula]

if they do indeed release more classes, I hope we see some more creative ults

[ornate fiber]

No, not the same thing

[signal nebula]

no not really

[ornate fiber]

priest bubble is, you look at a downed ally, and bring him back up, with all the health he lost in the last seconds

and in vermintide, health is VERY valuable

[livid raven]

btw i was thinking

[raw kettle]

But wasn't temp hp basically toughness

[livid raven]

if a mutant grabs you and slams you to 0%

[ornate fiber]

Imagine you just saw your ally get hit by a crusher, and he is down. Bubble him and now he is back up, at full health, and invicible for a few seconds

[livid raven]

it should supplex you at the end

[raw kettle]

Mutant can't it just leaves you at 1 hp right?

[livid raven]

no, they can kill you

[ornate fiber]

They should code mutants to ALWAYS throw people off ledge if they can

[livid raven]

any slam can bring you to 0 HP (they still continue slamming and you are officially downed at the end)

[livid raven]

so true

[raw kettle]

Ah never got fucked that bad by mutant

[tired prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/woody-toy-story-i-don't-want-to-play-with-you-anymore-gif-1116642795181823087

[austere coyote]

a powerbomb is more fitting

[tired prairie]

Mutants should do an Andy on you

[livid raven]

true

they should just do an alley oop with your body on the closest barrel

[raw kettle]

They should bring back assassins

That really make people shit their pants

[ornate fiber]

Honestly, i'm surprised dog is the only special that'll keep attacking until you're dead

[raw kettle]

Assassins were very brutal

[dire badge]

lads who run rampage, yll use cd stim paired w str? I think its good but not sure if its better than str atk spd which u pair with rampage to melt armor

[raw kettle]

A lot of times you just hear them and not see them till it's too late

[ornate fiber]

depends if you run chem dep or not

[raw kettle]

I use cdr with speed

[livid raven]

or Leeches

[dire badge]

ah

nah

[ornate fiber]

thats my layout for rampage build

[livid raven]

having a disabled that just teleports to you from anywhere and disables you is pretty stupid design

[ornate fiber]

with chem dep

[ornate fiber]

hook rats also are a lot more dangerous than trappers

[livid raven]

yeah

[raw kettle]

Yeah they actually dragged you

[ornate fiber]

and they blend very easily in hordes

[raw kettle]

Mhm

[ornate fiber]

they also are tankier (i remember they actually count as monstrosities)

[livid raven]

they are quite tanky yeah

[raw kettle]

Gatling

[ornate fiber]

the whole weapon team being armored is insane

[raw kettle]

Gatling were scarier than reaper

[dire badge]

I found a build on youtube that i tweaked slightly, thoughts? I run 2 toughness and 1 stam w knife and needle fent gun.

[ornate fiber]

uhhh

do not use that build

[dire badge]

okay okay why

[ornate fiber]

Pocket toxin with chem nade is totally useless

[raw kettle]

Lol

I didn't see that till you pointed it out

[livid raven]

uhhh

that's not pocket toxin

[dire badge]

i dont have pox toixn

[ornate fiber]

oh

[raw kettle]

Oh is that the crit one?

[livid raven]

damage up for each toxed enemy

and crit one yeah

[raw kettle]

Oh

[ornate fiber]

ok, better question then, why not using extra pouches and sample collector

[livid raven]

i would do that instead of taking the talents in the left tree (except swift endurance)

[raw kettle]

Mhm left tree only has few things

[ornate fiber]

Also, grab channeled aggresion (left tree of rampage)

25% rending is insanely good if you're gonna fight armored folks

[raw kettle]

Yes

[dire badge]

i find myself able to hanndle amrored lads good enough witho utit. reason why i dont take extra pouches and smaple colelctor is because left treei thought would be great to spam needle gun

[livid raven]

knife has uncanny tho

[raw kettle]

Needle gun good on its own just aim for head

[ornate fiber]

thats true. I guess i'd pick quick and deadly, at the top

i didnt see they were using knife, instead of shivs

[raw kettle]

Go shivs

[livid raven]

they are both good

[ornate fiber]

Knife is fine, though i'd say shivs are better

[livid raven]

i much prefer shivs for rampage tho

i prefer knife for desperado

[raw kettle]

Mhm

[narrow cosmos]

if you dont bring knife with desp you're kinda fucked with crushers

[livid raven]

eh shivs can deal with them well enough, but knife is better at it yeah

[narrow cosmos]

i mean maybe if theres one or two

but if you get a crusher horde you start praying

[ornate fiber]

you can also bring shivs with desp, and be fine

[livid raven]

if there is more, you have to use your blitz or rely on your teammates imo

[narrow cosmos]

i know

im using shivs

[raw kettle]

Crusher horde is where rockets

[narrow cosmos]

but whenever 4+ crushers show up and my team is nowhere to be found im just kinda

fucked

[ornate fiber]

you can run

[livid raven]

i just run

[narrow cosmos]

thats what i do

yeah

[ornate fiber]

no shame in repositioning

[raw kettle]

Lol

[narrow cosmos]

you call this retreat? i call this tactical repositioning

[raw kettle]

Or boom stick

[livid raven]

tactical repositioning (i'm running for my life)

[raw kettle]

Blow them up

[narrow cosmos]

dont got either of those

best i can do is toxblinders

(it doesent work)

[livid raven]

i really suggest rocket or toxnade for desperado

[ornate fiber]

Expert strategy (I'm running around to revive allies while horde is behind me, then dipping my allies)

[livid raven]

rocket is imo the best blitz in the game now

[narrow cosmos]

but toxblinders are just so fucking good

well

[livid raven]

i like them in rampage builds

[narrow cosmos]

more than good they're godtier qol

you just chuck one down whenever you're in any mildly unfortunate situation

[ornate fiber]

I'd say chem nades are still better

[livid raven]

i don't take the tox node on desperado

[narrow cosmos]

get out of jail free card

[livid raven]

as it's quite a lot of taxnodes

[narrow cosmos]

well

[ornate fiber]

chem nades are better...if crushers werent so dominating

though, rockets essentially invalidate the rituals modifier

[narrow cosmos]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1456696589044154488/image.png?ex=6959f6aa&is=6958a52a&hm=6a86e4a2047dd00e1ada3609303a166ca32212998fa449810f0a778591e85879&

[ornate fiber]

jokingly so

[narrow cosmos]

this is old

i wasnt lvl 30 when i took this

but this is what i do on my desperado

[ornate fiber]

Hive city brawled is just too good to pass, imo

[narrow cosmos]

i took hypercrit, sweetspot and vulture's dodge, removed the +15% clip size and i think switched some perks around at the top

[narrow cosmos]

i was originally gonna take hive brawler

but i really wanted hypercrit

and sweetspot

so i said

"its fine i just wont get hit"

[ornate fiber]

yeah, thats fair

[narrow cosmos]

(i got hit)

(it was a mauler)

[raw kettle]

Oh no extra clip? Hmm I guess since basically infinite ammo and not much reload time

[ornate fiber]

but, in cases it needs to be reminded, only use pocket toxin with stun nades

[narrow cosmos]

yeah that was my reasoning 'cause i was like "whats a perk which is nice but i dont really need for my build to work" and that was extra clip

'cause like

im running with speedloader 4 and the top perk that does 30% reload on close range kill

and ive got 59 bullets loaded

so at the end of the day

i dont really need 69

'cause i can churn out magazines faster than a manufactorum can make leman russ tanks

[raw kettle]

Lol

[narrow cosmos]

but sweetspot is really really nice

[ornate fiber]

I like sweetspot for some melee weapons

wouldnt use it for ranged

[narrow cosmos]

+25% on weakspots, with some good aim, lets you shred bosses

[ornate fiber]

Ok, its not exactly how it works

its not a flat 25% damage boost

[raw kettle]

Oof yeah

[livid raven]

it's good for vraks

[ornate fiber]

its 25% for weakspot damage, which is a different thing

[narrow cosmos]

okay just for context, i have like, barely 100 hours in this game and scum was my second lvl 30 class so i do not know these things

[raw kettle]

Yes only the addition of weakspot is multiplied

Not the basic damage

[ornate fiber]

Ok, so essentially, weakspot damage boosting is fine if the weapon has good finesse, or if it shoots a lot and fast

in one case, cause it actually gives a decent boost, the other cause it boosts a little, but each bullet gains from it

[narrow cosmos]

i mean im using shivs and akimbo uzis

doesent that fit?

[ornate fiber]

wouldnt use it for akimbo uzis, their aim is terrible

[raw kettle]

So if you do 10 regular and 5 extra to weakspot only the 5 gets that added

[narrow cosmos]

sticky hands makes it bearable

[ornate fiber]

like, go into the psykhanium, and try to headshot a boss, from around 3-4 meters, and thats the best case scenario

[narrow cosmos]

plus, i basically use them as a melee weapon at this point by how close i stick to enemies

then i get killed by sneaky maulers but thats beyond the point

[ornate fiber]

Again, I really do not advise to use weakspot for uzis

its not a precision weapon

[narrow cosmos]

so i just ditch weakspot and go for brawler?

[ornate fiber]

brawler would be better, yeah

[narrow cosmos]

even if i have shivs which i assume actually take good boost from it?

'cause im also using precognition

[raw kettle]

Yes because the autopistol single bullet isn't much extra weakspot damage

[narrow cosmos]

which is +40% finesse damage

[ornate fiber]

that and uzis are terrible for aiming

[raw kettle]

Oh yes

That too

[ornate fiber]

you'd be better off using the infantry gun with weakspot

[raw kettle]

You lucky if 20% of your rounds hit the head

[narrow cosmos]

i cannot give up crackhead mobility

[ornate fiber]

well, no weakspot for you, then, but you can use the point elsewhere

[narrow cosmos]

yeah thats true

i tried playing a game as psyker yesterday after taking scum from 0 to 30 and i felt like a fatass

[ornate fiber]

Brawler would be a 20% damage reduction most of the time

[narrow cosmos]

yeah its like, a flat 20% dr

ill just take that

[rough peak]

that 20% dr is nice, especially with the 2x stamina regen rate on the hive scum

[flat lotus]

I'm late but yeah don't take the weakspot damage increase. It only increases the bonus damage, not the damage total.

weakspot damage increase is generally not worth it

apparently vraks iag may get some notable use from it but citation needed on that

[rough peak]

25% weakspot at least isn't as bad as the 10% crit damage/weakspot damage perks

[flat lotus]

Brawler is goated

I always take it

[livid raven]

it gains like 40 damage per shot

it's very much worth it for vraks

[ornate fiber]

scum without brawler feels so squishy

I mean, it is

but brawler helps quite a lot

[rough peak]

It's a free 20% sniper resist while at full stamina, more or less

[flat lotus]

what talent would you sacrifice from this for the weak spot damage

because i want to use it with the vraks but i just cant find a single talent i want to drop

[livid raven]

nimble

this is actually the same build i use

[flat lotus]

Patient Hunter or Nimble is what I am thinking

[livid raven]

or calling time out

i find myself using slide dodge much more than normal dodge anyway

[flat lotus]

i like to keep all tdr i possibly can so nimble, jittery, or patient hunter will go

[livid raven]

imo dodge recovery and the limited amount of dodges is the biggest problem of the vraks

so i wouldn't remove jittery

nimble i don't do normal dodge much and i have no problems dodging melee enemies anyway

[flat lotus]

Jittery is what I want to remove the least

[prime violet]

I think I just got cancer looking at that build

[livid raven]

why

it's the cookie cutter desperado build

[flat lotus]

You're insane if you think it's a bad build

It's straightforward and effective

[livid raven]

so yeah i'd go with nimble

as in, remove nimble

[flat lotus]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking

[flat lotus]

Would love to hear your criticisms buddy

[prime violet]

Do you actually or do you just want to argue

[lapis raft]

skipping sample collector for clicking basically everthing on top side is somewhat sus at least

[livid raven]

brother you entered the chat and just shat on a build without saying anything

[livid raven]

literally every desperado build wants almost all of the top filled

float like a butterfly is good enough to spend another tax node on it

everything else amps up ranged

[prime violet]

You dont even need to pull out your melee weapon ever on a good desp build

[livid raven]

yes

[flat lotus]

not speccing into that side of the tree + i play with low viscosity

[livid raven]

which is why the build doesn't take any melee node except as a tax node

in the case of pickpocket and float like a butterfly

imo i prefer a tertium welcome just to deal with crushers better

[prime violet]

There's like 10 melee specific nodes on that build

[livid raven]

there is not?

[flat lotus]

There is not

lol

[modest patio]

Which ones?

[livid raven]

hypercrit and precision violence only

but they are tax nodes

[flat lotus]

hypercrit is just to access vulture and pickpocket

[prime violet]

Precision violence, float like a butterfly, hyper critical, hive city brawler

[livid raven]

float like a butterfly applies on ranged

[flat lotus]

Hive City Brawler is great

[livid raven]

hive city brawler is literally 20% DR?

[flat lotus]

Why would you not want the damage res

[livid raven]

precision violence and hypercrit are tax nodes

[prime violet]

Waste

[modest patio]

You’re wrong on half these now where is the rest of the 10

[livid raven]

infact, float like a butterfly applies on vulture dodge

and irrc desperado immunity but i would need to check

[prime violet]

Crit strikes is melee only, unless that skill is worded wrongly

[livid raven]

it's worded wrongly

or better

[flat lotus]

It's crits

[livid raven]

they usually mean that

but not for float like a butterfly

[flat lotus]

Float has great synergy with vulture's dodge

[livid raven]

hypercrit does specify critical strikes and it's melee only, but float like a butterfly applies to everything

[modest patio]

Float adds crit chance

[prime violet]

Im not even gonna get into the vm again, enjoy yourselves

[modest patio]

Also, give city brawler is melee only? What?

[livid raven]

lol

humiliated

see you

[prime violet]

Sure

[prime violet]

You're so great

[modest patio]

Claims 10 things, lists 4, only 2 are correct

[livid raven]

brother, you enter the chat, shit on a build and then spew fake facts

[flat lotus]

So where's those ten melee nodes you were talking about

[modest patio]

Claims 20% damage resist is melee only

[zealous ravine]

what do i do if theres hive scum doing the fent bend on the mourningstar

[modest patio]

Doesn’t know how crit chance works

[livid raven]

join in

he is right about the wording about float like a butterfly

unfortunately, the wording is a lie

[zealous ravine]

when is it not a lie with fatshark

[modest patio]

I suppose, though I thought it was common knowledge. We’ve known since early on how it works

I mean even the first ranged builds posted/pinned had it.

[flat lotus]

I recently learned Deathspitter stacked

[livid raven]

was that cole

[flat lotus]

But it's not in the tooltip

[zealous ravine]

lmao

[livid raven]

there is a ton of blessings that are meta but read as garbage tier

[modest patio]

I believe so

[zealous ravine]

i remember uncanny power being like "up to 5%" then its like up to 20% instead

[flat lotus]

I now use Deathspitter/Dum Dum on the vraks iag

It's crazy

[livid raven]

unstable power for psyker

[zealous ravine]

yea unstable power

[livid raven]

"up to 5% strength, scalign with power"

(it's 25%)

each 20% peril adds 5%

[zealous ravine]

i dont even rember if its 20% or 25% now

i think 20%

[ornate fiber]

thats a lot of skills in the top tree, damn

[ornate fiber]

but whats your gun, btw ?

[livid raven]

vraks irrc

they are all pretty insane for a ranged build (with the exception of Calling for a time out imo)

[ornate fiber]

I was more thinking of burst of energy, to dump

my reasoning being that its mostly useful against gunners, except they are playing desperado

[livid raven]

that's maybe the best defensive talent you get

[ornate fiber]

its good, for gunners

[livid raven]

are you thinking about tis but a scratch

the one that recharges toughness on ranged damage

[ornate fiber]

no, burst of energy

tis but a scratch is legendary

[flat lotus]

Originally made for dual autopistol but I toy around with vraks iag for sport and fun

[ornate fiber]

My issue with burst of energy is that, if you get your thoughness down to 0, as scum, its either that: 1) you are in melee, and should already be dead or are about to be, or 2), you got shot by gunners

playing desperado, gunners arent an issue

[livid raven]

you get saved a lot of times while caught in melee by burst of energy

[ornate fiber]

Not really. You cant afford to get hit twice as scum

[livid raven]

you certainly can

[ornate fiber]

I'm talking in terms of Havoc

[modest patio]

People have some hot takes today.

[livid raven]

but isn't tis but a scratch the same

[ornate fiber]

if you folks are playing auric, then you shoulnt ever worry about what perks you take, cause everything will work

[livid raven]

it only applies to ranged damage and that's mostly gunners

[ornate fiber]

tis but a scratch is phenomenal, and you will feel terrible for not using it

[livid raven]

but don't you reach 0 toughness immediately if you get hit

[ornate fiber]

Tis but a scratch prevents gunners from putting you at 0. If you get hit as scum, you are in trouble, regardless of burst of energy

[livid raven]

but you said you never worry about gunners as desperado

[ornate fiber]

yeah, you don't. But desperado isnt active all the times, which is what tis but a scratch helps with. Its also right under nimble, which is the best pick of the row

[livid raven]

nimble is the worst pick of the section

[ornate fiber]

Not with the current glitch, it isn't

[livid raven]

the current glitch is only good against gunners

with vulture dodge, you don't dodge manually

well, not against ranged enemies

[ornate fiber]

Thats assuming vulture dodge is the keystone you use

[flat lotus]

What glitch

[livid raven]

ah nevermind, you are one of those chem dep people

[ornate fiber]

Well, not so much "glitch" as "screw up" by fatshark

[livid raven]

they fucked up dodge linger against ranged attacks

with nimble (and i think even without it), you are literally immune to infinite amounts of gunners if you just spam dodge

[flat lotus]

OH THAT EXPLAINS A LOT LOL

[livid raven]

there was a funny video posted here

[ornate fiber]

it works without nimble, for every class except ogryn

[livid raven]

but man, it will be hard to find

[flat lotus]

I'VE NOT BEEN GETTING HIT BY GUNNERS REALLY AT ALL

[charred bronze]

I've played this game with despo talents. Get rid of all melee. You don't need float. Sample Collector and an extra blitz more than makes up for it.
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0ac5d64-961c-4dc0-8adf-1a92378ae240/all-gun-no-brakes-vulturado-scum

[livid raven]

you definitely want float like a butterfly on vraks

[charred bronze]

obv you can use chem/zook/even blinders if you can bear to sacrifice a point somewhere for pocket toxin

oh, this is Vraks specific?

[flat lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/whiplash-not-my-tempo-jk-simmons-gif-9593874262333532084

[flat lotus]

no

[livid raven]

i dunno about dual autoguns, i hear they can't chain crits (and their finesse is much worse anyway)

i didn't take float like a butterfly there

[ornate fiber]

You want float like a butterfly in almost every build, also because you get precision violence on the way

[flat lotus]

Not a fan of Ammo Jack

Sample Collector can be crazy though

[livid raven]

ammo jack is lame

they could have made it 25%

[charred bronze]

I've used both successfully with this layout. You can drop slippery/unload/ammo jack to pick it up

you don't need float with DAPS

[flat lotus]

I will absolutely be using Sample Collector when I do the bonesaw / needle build soon

[livid raven]

have you already played with the saw

[flat lotus]

Not yet

I want to check it out

one of the weapons I've yet to touch

[charred bronze]

but if you drop ammo jack, you'll need something else to chain to pickpocket

[ornate fiber]

thats the first despe build I use

[flat lotus]

No Unload?

[charred bronze]

but, I played a bunch of games with and without float and realized the uptime was miniscule

so I ditched it and picked up some convenience talents

willing to bet that if you drop it, you won't even feel the loss

[ornate fiber]

my bad, missed it

[flat lotus]

definitely would take unload over ammo jack

[livid raven]

would definitely not take long lasting

[zealous ravine]

i forgot gloomwood also has a bonesaw

[livid raven]

wow tf2 reference

[zealous ravine]

tf3

[ornate fiber]

and this is my chem dep build

[charred bronze]

missing Burst of Energy, which is a key defensive talent. Sticky hands -10 recoil and -30 spread is good on every gun. Long Lasting is unnecessary. Gunslinger Improved is the worst aura, and unnecessary. Hyper-Critical only works on melee.

[flat lotus]

i want to check out stim pack but i dont know how its best used

[livid raven]

it's bugged at the moment and it's overperforming

but you just pick a big stim, dump it

use sample collector and cdr to recharge the ability as fast as possible and dump it again

[flat lotus]

I honestly should swap to Anarchist over Gunslinger. It feels pretty miniscule but at the same time it's free ammo

[livid raven]

and repeat

[main trellis]

not taking BoE is pepega choice

[ornate fiber]

Burst of energy is only truly useful for melee builds, sticky hands isnt needed because i'm using uzis and am running towards my enemies anyway, long lasting, i agree, is mostly because it feels nice to pop the stim on every desperado build. Gunslinster improvised is also, i agree, the worst choice here, though its mostly about helping teammates, and hyper crytical is for shivs because you sometimes have to fight in melee

[flat lotus]

Yeah I'm gonna just swap to Anarchist lol

[ornate fiber]

I take Burst for every build, except desperado ones

[charred bronze]

Burst of Energy is useful for all builds. You're telling me that in all your games you've never gotten your toughness broken?

[livid raven]

what do you mean anarchist

[flat lotus]

wrong person

[main trellis]

he means aura

[ornate fiber]

If I'm getting my thoughness broken, as scum, playing desperado, that means i'm stuck, in melee, and am already about to do down,

[main trellis]

i think

[livid raven]

i always forget there is more than the crit aura

[flat lotus]

i always take BoE :)

[charred bronze]

weird, thought I was replying to his, musta misclicked

[modest patio]

Anarchist is the crit aura

Ruffian is the damage aura

[livid raven]

i think as desperado user, you are already helping the ammo economy of the team by simply existing

[modest patio]

Er, melee damage

[livid raven]

so gunslinger is overkill

[ornate fiber]

you are, but playing with ogryns and rumblers, it helps them a lot

[livid raven]

ok but i want them to suffer

[flat lotus]

BoE will save your ass in several cases

[charred bronze]

yeah, and burst of energy would prevent it

[main trellis]

eh; its a lil help for ammo gain if you stick together (not as much as survivalist vet but still helps)

[charred bronze]

like, literally insane take

[livid raven]

doesn't it actually completely refill low ammo count weapons with it with any ammo drop

[flat lotus]

BoE and Brawler are must have talents to me

[flat lotus]

Regardless of playstyle

[main trellis]

any low ammo max weapons that are used sporadically on melee builds; keeps them topped off; same for survivalist

[ornate fiber]

No, it bloody wont, lol. I'm playing Havoc and BoE isnt saving shit if i'm playing desperado. If my toughness gets broken, its because there is a wall of elites on my face. Scum in Havoc goes down if they get hit twice in a row

three with health curios

[main trellis]

got countless games where gunslinger (to a lesser extend) & survivalist were making me not pickup any ammo on a melee oriented build (and using ranged to take out ranged/specials threats)

[main trellis]

i sometimes don't include HCB for other things but for despy build i take it cause its like always active

[flat lotus]

anyways im gonna remove nimble for the weak spot damage (cause vraks) and i'll swap to anarchist

i'll see how that fares

[charred bronze]

The stun immunity on toughness break alone is valuable. Can and does prevent that second hit you're referring to by allowing you to gtfo

but suit yourself

[ornate fiber]

dude. by the time I get hit a second time, i'm gone, thats what you dont get

[main trellis]

keep nimble; mandatory to take

its that good

[charred bronze]

so literally everyone else who takes BoE on their havoc builds is an idiot?

[ornate fiber]

I'm talking about my DESPERADO build, thank god people read what I wrote

[lapis raft]

getting bonked out of the map by plague ogryn belly 10/10 fun, then watching another person in team also getting bonked xd

[main trellis]

sounds like skill issue then when you dont survive the second hit by ANYTHING (especially since toughness regain on HS is generous especially in melee; even on range is not hard to do)

also BoE HELPS WITH AOE like FIRE & GAS

[charred bronze]

shhh, it's a DESPERADO build, weren't you paying attention? He never gets stuck in fire & gas, just walls of elites

[main trellis]

He's called Plowgryn for a reason; he plows through your team

[flat lotus]

See that's what I was thinking but I can't think of anything else to get rid of to have that sweet weakspot damage bonus for the vraks

[main trellis]

slide talent is not needed; there is your sweet spot talent

[flat lotus]

whaaaaat

[charred bronze]

I literally only have slippery character in my build for quality of life on objectives, moving cannisters around

so it's probably a reasonable flex point

[flat lotus]

i have it because of my existential fear of crusher overheads + sliding around while using desperado and being immortal is fun

[charred bronze]

I don't think it protects you from crusher overheads, just like Vulture's Dodge won't

[lapis raft]

i was doing this for desperado but i was only playing it for penances otherwise i dont rly like playing the build

[charred bronze]

it's a nice quality of life talent, but it's not required

[flat lotus]

hmm

[main trellis]

overheads are AoE; won't help

same for VD

[lapis raft]

i dont think you rly need slippery or jittery for desperado you already have vultures and desperado itself, after that its justkinda overinvesting into same thing

[flat lotus]

THEY ARE?

LOL

I NEVER KNEW THIS!

That's funny as fuck

[lapis raft]

multiple people getting bonked by crusher is funny

[main trellis]

they also linger for like a split second

[flat lotus]

IT BEING AOE EXPLAINS SO MUCH

[main trellis]

cause AoE

[main trellis]

or by proxy

slide talent is such a trap talent its hilarious

[lapis raft]

i like it a lot with knife but otherwise i dont rly click it

[charred bronze]

the best is when the crusher is doing that stupid ass charge slam, is tracking someone else who moves into you, and the crusher pivots 270 degrees at the very last second like an NBA superstar to smash you both.

[flat lotus]

I want to play everything I can because I'd love to author and format a proper scum guide with some help of people in the chat

[main trellis]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/11131954893680039921/C45FA0465A8C9466BC23A0E9B410749F7BFEA8CE/

[main trellis]

can help ya later on in vc; eating now

[flat lotus]

definitely going to take inspo from how ainz made that zealot guide

layout wise

that doc is pretty good

[vernal quail]

yo guys whats the best build for the dual uzis?

[vernal quail]

any help on building it?

[exotic temple]

You could probably talk to @toxic dagger ogrynomicron is probably my favorite guide

[eager reef]

it has pictures

for smooth ogryn brains

[exotic temple]

Pictures are gewd

Any writing is elevated through the judicious use of pics

[flat mist]

Make sure to include that the dump stat for bonesaw is crit. Giving up dodge distance and 0.18 sprint speed for 1.2% crit chance and nothing else is an L choice most people aren't realising they're making yet.

[eager reef]

the best ones are clearly made in ms paint

[vernal quail]

yo guys anyone has the meta build for the dual uzis?

[flat lotus]

possible @noble latch sighting?

its like looking for bigfoot

[noble latch]

[flat lotus]

THE BOMBERS WOULD NOT FUCK OFFFFFF

CONSTANTLY

CONSPIRING AGAINST ME

[noble latch]

lots of fire that game, and annoying hounds

[flat lotus]

WHAT THE FUUUUCK

[old eagle]

I'm asking all of you, as a humble Psyker, STOP LOOTING EVERYTHING MILDLY SHINY!

[flat lotus]

I WAS THE HIVE SCUM WITH THE VRAKS

YOU KNOW

THE ONE THAT COULDNT BREATHE BECAUSE OF NURGLE SENDING 5000 BOMBERS TO FUCK ME UP

[brittle sierra]

just play arbi

[vernal quail]

hey orcka how u doin can u help me out?

[old eagle]

I feel like asking y'all to stop looting is a fool's errand, but please STOP 😭🙏

[flat lotus]

Blaze Away and Speedload is what I suggest

[vernal quail]

not pinning fire?

[charred bronze]

This is what I use. There's a basic gameplay guide at the bottom. After you run the build for a while you can move stuff around based on your preferences. If you find your squad struggling with crushers, take zook rockets. I've also been experimenting with softening them up with the prybar end of the crowbar so the squad can take them down faster.
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0ac5d64-961c-4dc0-8adf-1a92378ae240/all-gun-no-brakes-vulturado-scum

[flat lotus]

You can use Pinning Fire instead of Speedload if you'd like.

[charred bronze]

I prefer pinning fire

[flat lotus]

Your preference

[vernal quail]

also why maniacs and not flak

[flat lotus]

I prefer maniac but you could totally use flak instead.

[vivid wedge]

Idk if I would call Vultures the meta build lol

[vernal quail]

so most of the times its better to go vulture than chemical dependency?

[charred bronze]

it's a choice

with good stimm management, your despo uptime with VM+VD can be very high

others prefer chem dep with a stimm that does things that aren't CDR

[flat lotus]

I just do Kalma & Klay.

[charred bronze]

both have their virtues

[vernal quail]

vm vd?

[charred bronze]

Vulture's Mark + Vulture's Dodge

[vernal quail]

i see

[flat lotus]

Some people run the Sample Collector setup

[vernal quail]

yeah thats also good

[flat lotus]

I prefer Vulture's with Kalma I-IV & Klay

[vernal quail]

just that? not the wilfire?

[flat lotus]

Either is good.

[flat lotus]

It's for low viscosity

[charred bronze]

wouldn't use wildfire if I was venturing into the str stimm anyway. I'd go with Fury II or Vultoprene

[vernal quail]

i was asking for a talent build because i got the vraks build, but some people were stating that its different with the dual uzis because they dont benefict of some shit that vraks does

[flat lotus]

Most of the talents you use will probably be the same

[vernal quail]

is the 25% weakspot bonus dmg worth it for example on the usis

uzis

[flat lotus]

No

It's negligible

It's good on the vraks IAG though

[vernal quail]

see

thats what i meant

[charred bronze]

the only thing I can think of that would benefit vraks more than the DAPs is The Sweet Spot, but it's negligible regardless

[flat lotus]

I was about to say that lol

[vernal quail]

also is the

[flat lotus]

Most of the ones you use will be the same but there's Sweet Spot which vraks gets some good use out of

[vernal quail]

float like a butterfly worth it

its like 2 points investment

[charred bronze]

A lot of people don't like Ammo Jack, and if you're using the speedloader blessing, I'd move that point into hypercritical, but I specifically like it for use with pinning fire

[flat lotus]

If you're running Vulture's? I think it absolutely is worth it

[brittle sierra]

whats up?

[vernal quail]

ehh i was about to ask you on a meta build for the dual uzis/ vraks xD

[astral canyon]

The ceiling

[vernal quail]

yeah true

[brittle sierra]

meta? scum?

[flat lotus]

For vraks I use the deathspitter/dumdum setup

[vernal quail]

y

[flat lotus]

flak/unyielding

[vernal quail]

same

is hypercritical worth it ?

[old eagle]

This y'all?

[flat lotus]

It's a tax node honestly. Take it just to get access to pickpocket and vulture's

It's more efficient use of points than ammo jack

[charred bronze]

the useful thing about hyper-critical is that it's a one point investment that makes your melee much stronger. I melee so little on this build that I don't think it's a good use of points for me

[brittle sierra]

idk I do something like this: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07a1191-d386-4a2b-8511-26c27b84718e/professional-vicodin-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

but tbh in higher difficulties I find melee and crate scum to be more useful

[vernal quail]

and what do u use on crate scum?

[charred bronze]

I like unload. It's not a ton of output but it's free damage. I am taking Swift Endurance with the crowbar experiment build though

[brittle sierra]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a077d553-91e8-46ba-98db-89673f567985/porfessional-fent-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[vernal quail]

lmao the names

[brittle sierra]

tbh, the melee scum and crate scum builds (if you don't want dependency) are almost identical, you just switch adrenaline with crate

this is the crate build if you want to use Rashad

See how it's literally the same as rampage built just with crate? 💀

[vernal quail]

i see

XD

[astral canyon]

No

[brittle sierra]

yes

[old eagle]

How I feel whenever I get dosed with the Hive Scum's chems:

[bronze glade]

funny that you have to install a mod to see what the stimms do

[old eagle]

I don't even know what they do.

[astral canyon]

No

[old eagle]

I don't have any of the DLC, I'm perfectly happy with Psyker, but what do they do?

[bronze glade]

depends

the stimms are customized

[astral canyon]

Ye depends on how they built it

Can be cdr, tdr (though those two are the least common for crate builds), strength+rending/finesse/crit chance or attack speed+stun immunity/faster movespeed and dodges/recoil reduction and faster reload

[old eagle]

Ahhh, okay.

[astral canyon]

Generally its the strength and/or attack speed branches on crate setups

The crate also cures corruption (like field improv medkits) and gives immunity to it regardless of the stimm

[old eagle]

Oh fr?

Neat!

[flat lotus]

Hive Scum gets a "Stimm Lab" tab where they can do Breaking Bad LARP

you get to choose what it does

the more bonuses you take though, the longer the cooldown.

[old eagle]

I knew about Stimm lab, I just wanted to know what it does, and now I do.

[flat lotus]

i dont play my arby that much but i am very fond of scum

its my favorite class

[astral canyon]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor

[flat lotus]

guys i hate to say this

but i prefer autopistols over vraks

[vivid wedge]

^

[bronze glade]

Understandable

[flat lotus]

i like the mobility lots and they are just way more fun to me : p

[charred bronze]

I came to the same conclusion

with pinning fire you don't lose much killing power either

[vernal quail]

also

feels like they do more dmg to certain enemies

[trim wind]

And most importantly you look cooler

[worn yoke]

they're both really good options its purely preference on what you want more

[final temple]

understandable.

[vernal quail]

doesnt the vraks

crit way more

[flat lotus]

Does pinning fire really proc that much

I should go test it out

[trim wind]

It's up basically always

[worn yoke]

yes because it can chain crit

but for me its like this on what i pick
autopistols = more mobility and better horde clear
vraks = more accuracy and boss damage

thats how I pick them

emphasis on I

[vernal quail]

so between pinning fire and blaze away ifi wanna put quick reload, which one do i replace

[worn yoke]

pinning fire

[vernal quail]

are u supposed to also brace shoot with the vraks

also why not use the braced vraks

[worn yoke]

speedload is mostly qol but thats not a bad thing pinning is to get as much damage as you can

[trim wind]

Braced is a totally different gun

[flat lotus]

Because all braced users go to hell

[worn yoke]

whats brace shoot

do you mean ads

[astral canyon]

Speedload helps a lot with desperado uptime

[vernal quail]

i mean shooting from the hip

hipfiring

[worn yoke]

oh

[flat lotus]

@astral canyon Good username

I remember running ilas at launch

[worn yoke]

no you do both with the infantry gun

[flat lotus]

I kind of miss it

[vernal quail]

why

[worn yoke]

aim for ranged targets hipfire for hordes

[astral canyon]

I know

[flat lotus]

At least I have my recon las

I reject the plasma gun vet meta!!!

[worn yoke]

The reload talent in my opinion is more than enough

but its just preference

[vernal quail]

why doesnt people take that second desperaddo talent

[worn yoke]

because 5 seconds total back is nothing

[flat lotus]

Because it's poopy

Just fire into chaff and you will constantly have uptime

[worn yoke]

also you most of the time will have a cd stimm anyways

which makes it more pointless

[flat lotus]

Also the damage and rending bonus is just infinitely better

[vernal quail]

what dmg and rending bonus?

[flat lotus]

the other ability modifier

[vernal quail]

ahh i see

and the stim i shoul be using only kalma and klay right

[worn yoke]

generally you just get more use out of that talent point elsewhere

the benefits of it isnt enough is the tldr

[flat lotus]

If you're not using Sample Collector, yes, that's what I'd use

[astral canyon]

Just kalma

[vernal quail]

we dont ave enough ponts for sample collector

[flat lotus]

I don't use SC anyways.

So.

https://tenor.com/view/nose-picking-stimpy-ren-%26-stimpy-clearing-my-nose-comedy-central-gif-4062194229388877689

[astral canyon]

Kalma 5 is 10 seconds off per stimm

[flat lotus]

Why not Klay

[astral canyon]

Klay is the one for ranged kills right?

[flat lotus]

Yes

I like it

And in my experience I feel like it regens faster than Kalma V

[astral canyon]

Assuming you are getting a ranged kill every second then that means you get 15 seconds off instead of 10

And if you arent getting at least one ranged kill every second its going to be less

Its mostly for consistency

[flat lotus]

yeah that's fair

[vernal quail]

isnt kalma 5 like 4x 6,25% cdr + 25%

should be like 50% cdr

[astral canyon]

Which is total 50%

Yes

And stimms last 15s so that means 10 seconds off the cooldown

[vernal quail]

so u get stim every 5 seconds? wait what

nah

because it means 50% faster cdr

good

god

[astral canyon]

Each use of a kalma 5 stimm effectively reduces your ability cooldown by 10 seconds

Thats it

Stimm cooldown is completely separate from ability cooldown

[charred bronze]

y'know those rooms/landings along the the many stairs down archivum sycorax? I caught the edge of a burster in the middle of the room and it launched me perfectly in a graceful arc, through a window, to my death. 1 in a thousand shot. Couldn't help but laugh.

[vernal quail]

i feel like the chargers are bugged against the uzis

[muted pivot]

for cartel special, which final tier is best for strength?

[vernal quail]

they take so much dmg

[muted pivot]

I'm taking crit chance with shivs on both ranged and melee specs

[muted pivot]

braceds are sadly wank, since they have terrible finesse modifiers

[brittle sierra]

Crit is always beneficial

[final temple]

we are a crit class. yeah.

[brittle sierra]

Well every class wants crit

Except Ogryn

[final temple]

Ogryn wants crit too. they just don’t get it xD

[vast yoke]

yall know a good place to get deathwatch pauldrons

i have a ton of dudes i can convert i just need thems pauldrons

[vast yoke]

rending is worth taking if ur running a desperado + dependency build

lets any gun rip up crushers pretty much

otherwise yeah crit

finesse is also ok on rampage corkscrew shivs/mk3 knife builds but its niche

[final temple]

kill team box, but that would be wasteful. I’d suggest looking for 3D prints or forgeworld

[vast yoke]

yeah i was thinking of checking out local stores to see if they have a bits crate i can dig thru

if you have a good stl/3d print seller feel free to dm king

[final temple]

hah. I wish. I am actually considering starting it myself.

[limber cradle]

Damn, GW really hiked the price on the shoulderpads, huh?

[vast yoke]

well in that case i'll send you something your way if i find one T__T

[limber cradle]

The sprue used to be like $10

[vast yoke]

yea its like 17 dollars now

even at 10 it was overpriced tho

[limber cradle]

It's 40k tbf

Whole hobby is overpriced if you buy stuff from GW

[vast yoke]

ya true

over here the deathwatch kill team box was super cheap

and it came with way too many variants/spares

like 25 fucking heads

so i was able to pull about 14 guys from a box that was really made for 5, at most 10

just need some pads for the guys i scraped together

[limber cradle]

Tbh

[vast yoke]

i'll prob just find an stl and get it printed locally

[limber cradle]

I built a DW army back when you could build them entirely out of $90 Start Collectings

You bought ~5 of them and that was your whole army

Good times

[main trellis]

how is it now?

[final temple]

Yeah I am getting back into it and just can’t justify collecting a whole army given the prices. I am looking at necromunda or killteam myself

[worn yoke]

for taxe rampage is the elite killing way just m1 spam or heavies

using mk7

[tender marten]

heavy light repeat

[worn yoke]

gotcha that makes more sense

[tender marten]

or push attack and then heavy light repeat

[woeful hill]

mk7 is push heavy

light for cara/unyield

[charred oriole]

What does stimm supply do if you got nothing allocated in the stimm lab

[astral canyon]

Just corruption cure and immunity

But you can share pickup stimms

[charred oriole]

Is it worth it

[astral canyon]

No

[charred oriole]

So does that mean if I pick up a combat stimm it will apply the combat stimm effect

[astral canyon]

At most like a meme build for the mentioned pickup stimms

[brittle sierra]

Nothing that requires you to pick up something to refresh is worth it imo

[astral canyon]

Yes

[worn yoke]

im using 7 because it felt like the strongest option

[woeful hill]

it is

[charred oriole]

Trying to go for a doctor build lowkey

I’ll just go w toughness and cooldown regen

[astral canyon]

Those two are prob the least useful options for crate

[charred oriole]

😢

[abstract inlet]

Brother in the emperor, you gotta hit em with MORE DAMAGE

[astral canyon]

Or attack speed

[final temple]

the toughness branch is worthless. cooldown is really good tho. consider the strength branch instead of toughness. everybody will like that.

[lapis raft]

cdr and str is what im doing on crate

[astral canyon]

The thing with cooldown branch is it doesnt do much for you

[lapis raft]

and cdr is like the strongest thing there

[limber cradle]

In what way?

I stopped buying 40k models awhile ago, they stopped selling SCs a few years back

[final temple]

the diminished utility for yourself is offset by the increased utility for your team.

[lapis raft]

but the toughness branch is just coherency toughness recovery its completely useless and the dr from it is not good enough

[charred bronze]

oof, imagine if one of the toughness keystones provided yellow toughness

worthwhile but busted

[lapis raft]

well yea thats how you turn something usless into somethign broken :d

[pulsar aspen]

I don't think so.

[lapis raft]

they could just give generic toughness recovery

instead of useless stat

and make the last 2 nodes not completely useless as well

ez improvement

[final temple]

I think they should turn it JUST into TDR. everybody would like that without it being yet more golden

[lapis raft]

i like it giving actual recovery for toughness in one way or another

fits a theme

[pulsar aspen]

The Golden Toughness would be at the end of the branch, so depending on how much you pick, you have one instance of golden toughness potentially at a point where you don't need it.

[lapis raft]

well as you can have the crate buffs literally permanently up it would just be turbo broken

[pulsar aspen]

It would obviously not work with the crate, only for yourself.

[charred bronze]

I won't be surprised if they do adjust it to make it more useful, Even adding a little healing would make that branch more worthwhile

[lapis raft]

wym obviously, all stimm stuff from stimm works with crate

that would not be obvious at all

[astral canyon]

I feel like doubling all toughness recovery would prob be way too much

[lapis raft]

they could lower the value

but make it generic

[astral canyon]

Maybe

[lapis raft]

i think they could do like 7.5% per point or 10%, and then final node could be like 1% or 2% toughness regen

[pulsar aspen]

Well, i guess it should have been "should only work with yourself"

Because we don't need more sources of golden toughness that avoid the punishment you should incur for doing a fatal mistake

[astral canyon]

I think we dont need more sources of gold toughness

[lapis raft]

i dont think scum should have any access to golden toughness from tree it would be broken regardless if it applied only to scum or other ppl too

[abstract inlet]

NO GOLD ON STIMM

NOOOO

[lapis raft]

you already have best mobility and dodges and then you just give it tool to completely ignore the windows where you should actually die

[candid flint]

who the hell is asking for more gold toughness lmao

golden toughness as it is needs to be destroyed

[astral canyon]

Eh they already broke its legs enough to not be braindead anymore

[pulsar aspen]

It could be a damage reduction while you have it.

[abstract inlet]

Change gold toughnes to 5 seconds of range invuln

[pulsar aspen]

The fuck, no.

[abstract inlet]

KNEECAP IT TO THE GROUND

GET THEM KARKING STUCK IN

[pulsar aspen]

That would lull people in a false sense of security which already happens with Psyker Bubble

[astral canyon]

I'd rather they change the sources of gold toughness (shout and chorus) to be more interesting instead

[abstract inlet]

I'm just being funny

[lapis raft]

well you already have option to make shout more interesting except they decided to give downside on that one instead of adding downside on golden tougness part :d

[pulsar aspen]

Revive enemies with shout, but remove golden toughness instead.

[main trellis]

i meant prices but since yous topped buying its nvm

[limber cradle]

Oh, they go up

[astral canyon]

Shout should be more like a mix of rampage and crate/nuncio imo

[limber cradle]

GW stuff is drastically more expensive than when I stopped

[abstract inlet]

I wish it was a team damage buff

[pulsar aspen]

An army is probably more expensive, but you could opt for kill-team instead

[limber cradle]

Its normally anywhere from a 25 percent to 75 percent mark up, depending on what you're looking at vs 4 years ago @main trellis

[low harbor]

I have heard devious things cooking in the background

[astral canyon]

Something like that yeah

[limber cradle]

Totally different things tbf

[astral canyon]

A ratatouille?

[limber cradle]

Killteam is a better game than 10e tho

[pulsar aspen]

[worn yoke]

some random scum is insisting for me to use taxe with the backstab talent?? 😭

[low harbor]

There’s a nonzero chance that red nodes become refreshable alongside stance

[astral canyon]

Huh

Neat

[abstract inlet]

combine it with threat reduction and it might work

[pulsar aspen]

The backstab talent that is for some reason in the Ranged Branch of the Tree? Yeah...

@worn yoke Avoid the Threat Reduction. You will fuck over your teammates.

[main trellis]

jesus christ...

[limber cradle]

The shoulderpads ari was talking about went from

Normally $10-$12.50 to $17.50

[main trellis]

who is that?

[limber cradle]

Deathwatch as an army went from like, I think $60 for 10 dudes to $52.something for 5?

Smaller box, comparatively higher price

[main trellis]

not only inflation but shrinkflation too

fked up...

[limber cradle]

Aye

[worn yoke]

idk its in a havoc lobby

[limber cradle]

Game got more popular

+tariffs

+general price hikes

Etc etc

[main trellis]

tell him/her they are dumb as a sheep and not even cute as one

[pulsar aspen]

🐑

Sheep are fluffy.

[low harbor]

Also mentioned 2 talent swaps in vet tree that’ll make general defence & flex point economy a bit better

[astral canyon]

Neat 2: electric boogaloo

[worn yoke]

yeah idk they also had weird blessings on their taxe too i just told them to leave me alone and let me play LOL

[pulsar aspen]

"weird blessings"?

[main trellis]

ye; what blessings?

[lapis raft]

backstab one shot taxe new meta

[astral canyon]

Pretty much anything that isnt breadtaker automatically falls into "weird" territory on taxe

[worn yoke]

and hes fully specced into the backstab thing

[main trellis]

i don't use Bruhmentum on taxe

[main trellis]

he should play shroudfield zel instead

[worn yoke]

And he also questioned me for having unarmoured to one shot scab bruisers with the comment "you're worried about chaff?"

Just a bit weird

[lapis raft]

does relentless and ramping backstabs at least work on toxin, i could see the vision there at least but it still sounds useless

[main trellis]

on that one hes right

[worn yoke]

i think having really good horde clear is just a nice thing to have

especially in high havoc

people get overwhelmed so i like to reduce it

[mighty belfry]

I mean a bromentum axe likes having unarmored tbf

[main trellis]

taxe already does nicely vs hordes due to moveset & att spd while in havoc breakpoints matter less

chaf is never a problem; what comes with it is

[mighty belfry]

The chaff worsens the problem though. Plus assuming hyperviolence is involved, it also allows more overkill on scab bruisers and groaners

And that helps your overall damage on everything else in mixed horde clear

[dim moth]

No?

you want less enemies in a crowd that are capable of stopping your cleave at all times

taking +unarmored on tactical axe/combat axe means one less enemy that just eats the hit and doesn't die

which stops your attack entirely

which is bad

[mighty belfry]

It also means you don't need to invest in cleave talents

So it opens up more options for setups.

[astral canyon]

Also more overkill for hyperviolence

[main trellis]

you never need to (unless you dont use rampage then ye; you want cleave on kill)

[dim moth]

bonesaw

[main trellis]

we talk about taxe

[mighty belfry]

Even rampage with taxe doesn't have the best cleave because it's base cleave isn't that good to begin with.

That's why bromentum is such a popular pick.

[main trellis]

i dunno; 50% cleave + 50% power + 25% power over 10s with probably headtaker too so thats another 25% power

[mighty belfry]

Yeah. And it still doesn't feel great.

It's noticeable.

[dim moth]

I use a tactical axe with decimator/headtaker for gun vet builds

It has alright cleave with +100% power :)

[mighty belfry]

But compared to bromentum, it's definitely not as good especially because of hyperviolence's little gimmick.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's still usable obviously but I understand why bromentum with unarmored is a good pick to have.

[main trellis]

an option

i prefer not to struggle vs beefy targets & have extra 25% dmg vs them

or even 5% crit chance

cause att spd with those crits & toxin procs... and finesse...

it gets very silly

[little laurel]

So...I just saw Tanners video, and he never explained which mark does differences?

Can anyone clarify, from what I heard, he basically said, mkII is less damage?

[limber cradle]

1. Tanner is a moron

[little laurel]

I know the alt fire on mk2 is...aoe?

[limber cradle]

2. Mark 2 causes an explosion on death in special mode that aoe stacks tox on things around it

[trim wind]

hey now this is reductive, he's also a raging douchenozzle

[little laurel]

am I to assume the primary fire on both MK is the same?

[limber cradle]

Mark 6 special causes an aoe stagger with flat damage, and the baseline fire is iirc +1 stack over 2

[little laurel]

by primary fire, I mean the top thing

[bronze glade]

they're different

[little laurel]

oh, so the MK6 does not have aoe on death?

just stagger?

[bronze glade]

it's a crappy explosion

that does like nothing

it looks cool tho

[limber cradle]

Is the +1 only on headshots then?

[bronze glade]

headshot and crit

[limber cradle]

I see

[little laurel]

oh, but the primary fire on the mK6.....gives more poison on crits

[bronze glade]

so mk6 primary fire is better than mk2 primary fire

but mk2's alt fire actually does something

[little laurel]

what is the +1 in a radius?

am I to assume that they both, on alt fire, have an explosion?

[idle ore]

mk2 is basically inferior

the special mode is a meme

[little laurel]

hmm? isnt the mk2 better for clears?

[idle ore]

are you using the needler to clear a horde?

[limber cradle]

With pickpocket you can do whatever you want with the thing tbf

[idle ore]

even with pickpocket

why clear with the needler

its not fast

[bronze glade]

it's ok

[little laurel]

feels hella fast to me

[bronze glade]

and also for stimms

[idle ore]

use it then

[little laurel]

....well

do you have a helpful alternative?

[idle ore]

for what

[little laurel]

for the thing you just disparaged! dur!!

[idle ore]

?

[little laurel]

what would you pair with needle then, if you are using it for specials only

[low harbor]

no, dot cannot backstab

[idle ore]

my alternative is to use the other mark

[little laurel]

or, if for hoard clear....what would you recommend?

[idle ore]

shivs, tacaxe

rashad

hsword

[little laurel]

the helll is rashad

[idle ore]

combat axe

[lapis raft]

thats not what i meant

just the str from the buff applying to dot

[worn yoke]

when is the soonest moment where rotten armour is out of the rotation

this shit sucks!

[pulsar aspen]

I find Rotten Armour amazing.

[pine shell]

Best way to build Crowbar?

[bronze glade]

adren rampage

are basically mandatory

and then superiority and opportunist

[low harbor]

melee strength does not apply to dot

[mighty belfry]

Mk2 alt is good at clear though

It's basically temu purge staff lol