hivescum-class

[limber cradle]

I can keep VM up and at fullstacks often

[final temple]

yes. and it’s not even close. but you will find people who claim vulture is better simply because they value movement speed.

[limber cradle]

What do you think is honestly better about it

Cause I've used Chem Dep with Desp and it doesn't feel like it's actually doing anything for me outside the CD

[rough nimbus]

I think the only reason you'd take chem dependency is that you want to not use cdr stim

[narrow cosmos]

i mean, how i was looking into it was, you take maxed out chem for 4 stacks of dependency, take chem enhanced, thats already a 20% critchance, plus you take full damage stimm with vultoprene which is an extra 15% critchance + 20% strength AND you get the constant 40% cooldown reduction with it, isnt that just flat out better?

i mean

[limber cradle]

Thats how I feel about it

[rough nimbus]

and invest more into more uptime on the damage stim

[narrow cosmos]

the only downside is you need to remember to stim

[narrow dagger]

bro other 2 keystones is worst keystones in the entire game lol

[vivid wedge]

@narrow cosmos thats what I do, and it works great

[limber cradle]

Not when terminus warrant exists

[narrow dagger]

melee keystone is still worse .d

[final temple]

crit chance alone outweighs vulture. plus cdr. plus toughness. it’s the numerically superior keystone.

[narrow dagger]

vm is better than that

[rough nimbus]

I'm like pretty sure adrenaline frenzy is still better than ij on zealot

and at least one ogryn keystone

[narrow dagger]

melee keystones uptime and buffs it gives to you is so bad

[limber cradle]

Well it's great that we aren't talking about adren rn, huh?

[final temple]

both vultures and frenzy deserves buffs. and personally I would switch toughness and cdr nodes on chem dep.

[narrow dagger]

still vm is pretty weak

[limber cradle]

I don't think you can call VM weak when VD exists in it

[rough nimbus]

vm is okay, you just don't need to be immortal while shooting

[narrow cosmos]

with that build you're up 35% critchance, 20% strength (which, from what i know, is basically all damage types into one and i believe it applies on ranged) and a permanent 40% cdr without having to rely on the stimm for it over 15% ranged damage, 15% movement speed and 15% critchance from vulture's at max stacks while being on a 8s timer if you dont get an elite/special wave which, even then, is not really a problem as they cant really overwhelm as long as you hit your shots

[narrow dagger]

you can take the dodge node if you are not good with spacing but it does not give anything besides that

[limber cradle]

It auto procs your dodge talents?

Which in turn procs your tree dodge talents like Float and QnD

It also makes you flat out immune to ranged damage lmao

[final temple]

VD doesn’t even work consistently.

[rough nimbus]

I mean you can also just dodge to proc your dodge talents

[limber cradle]

Sure, but I'm just saying chem dependency isn't doing a lot for you outside the crit chance while you'll have anyway

And depending on gun doesn't even really matter

[final temple]

if crit doesn’t even matter then so doesn’t half the value of vm.

[narrow dagger]

only cooldown node and %50 toughness back on stim is good

[narrow cosmos]

does strength apply to ranged

[rough nimbus]

I think you have slightly less uptime on your ability than if you go cdr stim desperado vm but in exchange you have more uptime on damage stim

yes

[limber cradle]

Everything

[vivid wedge]

I don't take the 50% toughness back either lol

[narrow cosmos]

is 20% strength negligible?

[rough nimbus]

you don't need 50% toughness or tdr on ranged builds rn

[narrow dagger]

still better than the others .d

[prime violet]

Yeah the movement speed on vm is literally irrelevant, crit chance is the same or less, range damage is ok, and no cdr

Make it make sense

[rough nimbus]

if they fix ranged enemies not being able to hit you while you move vm stonks would go up

[limber cradle]

I suppose not, if you wanna run Chem dep go ahead. I'm just saying I did and did not think it was better than VM

[rough nimbus]

but its base buffs aren't bad chem dependency is just stupidly viable for everything

[narrow dagger]

perma uptime is the thing for me

[rough nimbus]

very easy to manage its uptime

[vivid wedge]

I opt for extra dodge charge on range weapon node instead of 50% toughness on chem dependency

[prime violet]

Plus if you run only strength and have the 45sec cooldown, sample collector, 4 stacks goes a long way

[narrow cosmos]

i mean im not really waiting or arguing for you to say its better, all i wanted was to just gather opinions on it because im nowhere as knowledgeable or experienced as some people in here and maybe i was just missing something on both of the keystones, and i dont know how much impact percentile stats and buffs actually have in practice, thats why i was asking if 20% was negligible or not

[vivid wedge]

Why recover toughness if you just don’t get hit 5head

[prime violet]

Yeah that toughness node is a trap

[rough nimbus]

me spamming dodge at -5 dodges, still not getting hit

funny class

[narrow cosmos]

'cause if that mauler sneaks up on your ass while you're mowing down a horde you're getting split like firewood

totally not speaking from experience

[narrow dagger]

for ranged builds yes but for melee builds i think its pretty useful with tdr

[limber cradle]

Its not negligible, nah.

[narrow cosmos]

alright, thanks

[prime violet]

Imagine not running needle pistol desperado

[narrow cosmos]

what is even the hype around needle pistol

ive never used it

i dont know what it does

[mossy sedge]

it kills everything really well

[narrow dagger]

cool weapon but not my taste

[mossy sedge]

and paired with pickpocket it never runs out of ammo

[limber cradle]

Its comically op

[narrow dagger]

i still use bolt pistol mostly

[narrow cosmos]

is it just a "fuck that guy in particular" weapon

[prime violet]

3mil+ damage on h40 rotten armor

[vivid wedge]

^

[limber cradle]

Trivializes rot armor

Which is good rn

[mossy sedge]

you can just spam fire the needle pistol into every single threat and it will melt

[narrow cosmos]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/959048688955707405/1047100868748660757/ezgif-5-43ee149553.gif

[vivid wedge]

Yeah at high havok it's really just a solution to rot armor

[limber cradle]

Does a metric fuckton of boss damage too

[narrow cosmos]

the fuck

[mossy sedge]

esp rotten armor and bosses

[narrow dagger]

flame staff lite

[mossy sedge]

it would be balanced if its ammo economy was poor, but pickpocket enables infinite ammo

[limber cradle]

Yeah

[narrow cosmos]

is needlepistol + desperado actually viable

[limber cradle]

Uh

You don't need desp for it

[rough nimbus]

you don't need desperado for that weapon to be broken

[limber cradle]

You just need pickpocket

[narrow cosmos]

is it singleshjot

singleshot

[rough nimbus]

you get no value on damage increase

[limber cradle]

Semiautomatic yes

[rough nimbus]

you turn it to the funny blue mode and shoot the ground

[narrow cosmos]

oh

thats fair yeah

[limber cradle]

Fwiw box is really good cause of thr corruption immunity rn

[narrow cosmos]

so its like the special killer weapon

that for some reason deals 3mil damage

[limber cradle]

Everything

[mossy sedge]

it kills everything

[rough nimbus]

.8adm dot stonks go brr

[limber cradle]

Tox is a broken dot

That unironically probably gets nerfed in the future

[narrow dagger]

like a rending nerf prolly

[rough nimbus]

I mean psyker still exists

[narrow cosmos]

yeah i noticed tox is kinda bonkers 'cause im using toxblinders and everytime i chuck one at a group of enemies that arent specials/elite they all just fucking die

[rough nimbus]

blue juice is just as broken as green juice

[narrow dagger]

yea but psyker is not human level kind of balanced

[limber cradle]

Tox is better than warpfire

Does more damage

[narrow dagger]

no its not really

[rough nimbus]

it does more damage but it's not infinite cleave more damage

[vivid wedge]

I mean warpfire has infinite cleave?

[narrow dagger]

cuz you can apply soulblaze with just existing

[narrow cosmos]

how is it like, an everything killer though? its semiauto single shot weapon can it deal with hordes?

[limber cradle]

Players better than us have made a scale if you want to see it, but it does more damage and stacks linearly with no real fall off.

[mossy sedge]

soulblaze is better bc its easier to apply

but tox is still more potent

[narrow cosmos]

toxblinders exist

[limber cradle]

Mk II special fire is an aoe explosion on enemy death that applies more dot to everything around it

[rough nimbus]

but what about if you have uncanny strike slaughterer on obscurus

[narrow cosmos]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/959048688955707405/1047100868748660757/ezgif-5-43ee149553.gif

[narrow dagger]

its better

[narrow cosmos]

who the fuck made that weapon, tested it, and said "yeah its ready ship it out"

[limber cradle]

Same people who made pickpocket

And desperado

[narrow cosmos]

😭

[rough nimbus]

brother you can ask that question about most of the balance of this game lol

[limber cradle]

[narrow cosmos]

hey dont touch desperado

[limber cradle]

Desperado is comically strong

[narrow cosmos]

i know

[narrow dagger]

without them ranged scum dies tho

[narrow cosmos]

but dont say it

its really fun to spray hordes

i dont want them to nerf it

[compact oyster]

It wont

[limber cradle]

If this is a serious opinion I'm done taking you seriously.

[tardy cedar]

What is the best build for Hiver right now? I've mainly been using a crowbar adrenaline frenzy build

[compact oyster]

Scum will have to engage with the ammo economy

Not ignore it

[limber cradle]

What do you want to do

Scum has a few "best builds"

[tardy cedar]

I want to do what someone posted above, 3 million damage to rotten armour 👀

[narrow cosmos]

it doesent though, like, every single build has enough ammo, pickpocket just lets you ignore ammo boxes

[limber cradle]

You just take needler and pickpocket, that's all you need to enable needler

[tardy cedar]

Maybe I'm using Needle incorrectly

[limber cradle]

Apparently

[tardy cedar]

I've modified epic_cole's crowbar build

and then stacked toughness regen and strength on the Cartel Special

[pulsar aspen]

Pickpocket in itself might not be the problem, but that every build has access to it, melee builds in particular.

[narrow dagger]

yes it will. you play with ammo hungry bullet weapons that use 1 entire ammo stock per 5 mins. if you remove them ranged scum cant exist on havoc.

[prime violet]

Desperado needle pistol definitely not necessary or even really optimal, it's just gives you a little more ranged spam, and does allow for some unique clutching

[tardy cedar]

I use needle as secondary, but it doesn't melt enemies as fast as I expected

What do the different Needler Mks actually do?

[prime violet]

But against rot armor needle pistol is pretty much mandatory for scum

M2 has horde clear option m4 doesn't but applies an extra stack per shot

[limber cradle]

I do think infinite ammo with no cooldown with the condition of "kill an elite by any means" is a little goofy

[pulsar aspen]

Well yes, but it would help if you lock it behind Vulture's Mark

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[vivid wedge]

I disagree, I think needle pistol is probably the safest option but not a must

[narrow cosmos]

only "ammo hungry" bullet weapon scum has is the akimbo uzis or like the autogun, but if you're running either you're running desperado, which, if you're using the class properly means you will basically never have ammo issues

[narrow dagger]

psyker main?

[limber cradle]

Nothing is a must if you're good enough

However

Needler makes rot armor a joke

That you don't have to interact with anymore

[pulsar aspen]

Which is sad.

[narrow dagger]

bullet weapons is ranged scums identity

[narrow cosmos]

how would they nerf pickpocket without deleting it though? make it so you have to physically go over and collect a dropped ammo box? lower the ammo regained?

[limber cradle]

In vt2 you had to kill with melee

And iirc it had a bit of a cooldown

[narrow cosmos]

nothing i said went against that, yeah, i know

[compact oyster]

No lmao

[tardy cedar]

Was that on Kerillian's assassin subclass?

[limber cradle]

BH Saltz

[compact oyster]

No class in havoc can be ranged only

[narrow cosmos]

yeah they could just do it like bounty hunter's tbh

[vivid wedge]

Thats not true lol

[tardy cedar]

God I barely remember that, I usually played dual pistol Witch Hunter

[pulsar aspen]

Psyker

[compact oyster]

Psyker just spams infernus

[narrow dagger]

its the class design you know? ranged guy at melee range.

[narrow cosmos]

god emperor bless dual flintlocks

[tardy cedar]

or Warriah Priest

[pulsar aspen]

Which is a ranged weapon.

[limber cradle]

HOLY SIGMAR BLESS THIS RAVAGED BODY

Sorry, had to let that one go

[tardy cedar]

Sigmar bless this ravaged body

[compact oyster]

Scum exists and will continue to exist when pickpocket is gutted

[narrow cosmos]

very understandable

[compact oyster]

Desperado already gives infinite ammo

[pulsar aspen]

I HAVE A SHOT FOR YOUR ROTTEN HEART, BLIGHTSTORMER!

[compact oyster]

And you can use stims for cdr regen

[narrow dagger]

heard enough buff psyker and vet

[vivid wedge]

I think it's funny when people get so lusty over nerfs in a PvE game

[limber cradle]

Genuinely

[compact oyster]

I agree

[limber cradle]

Its braindead if you think nerfs shouldn't happen cause "pve"

[compact oyster]

We should increase enemy health again

And buff our weapons again

[pulsar aspen]

People don't like having their overpowered stuff being taken away from them because that could lay bare their lacking skill

[limber cradle]

This is why we have 10k hp crushers

[compact oyster]

And buff enemies again

[narrow cosmos]

i hate crushers

how 2 deal w crusher no armor pen no grenade no heavy melee weapon easy fix pls

[limber cradle]

Apply shivs

[narrow dagger]

i didnt say it shouldnt happen lol. but i think we should nerf vet and psyker first.

[narrow cosmos]

how the blades bounce off 😭

[limber cradle]

Heavies

[narrow cosmos]

i might just be skill issued but crushers are like the one enemy i just have to run from unless i want to get crumpled into a little ball

[pulsar aspen]

That is by design

[narrow cosmos]

okay great

[narrow cosmos]

the corkscrew one yeah? 'cause the double stab one just kinda.. slides off unless i hit the head

[pulsar aspen]

Crushers are all Carapace Armour and trying to stand and fight when you do not have sufficient enough stagger will most likely result in you being splat on the floor

[limber cradle]

What do you run on your shivs

Thank god we have nimble and jittery

[narrow cosmos]

ignore curios im working on it

[limber cradle]

And you can just circle strafe 8 of the fat bastards at once

[limber cradle]

Tbh that is what i run and I simply heavy heavy repeat them and kill them

[lapis raft]

just throw 2 specials and heavy and crusher ded

[narrow cosmos]

doesent that take like 20 million heavies though

[limber cradle]

Uh

4 or 5? Normally

[lapis raft]

even without the specials its like 3-4 heavies

depends on your uncanny

[narrow dagger]

go +8 bleed stacks one for 2nd blessing

[limber cradle]

Yeah

[lapis raft]

you can also just do knife if you arent using specials

[limber cradle]

Actually I lied, I run riposte not precog

[narrow cosmos]

i guess i just miss alot 😭

which is

surprising considering how big those fat dipshits are

[lapis raft]

lol

you can just special from melee range

its fine

[narrow cosmos]

special as in shiv throw or nade

[limber cradle]

Less dopamine if it isn't cross map tho

[limber cradle]

Shiv throw

[narrow cosmos]

are shiv throws really good? i mostly just ignore them most of the time except those few moments i remember i have em and dump them all into a rager

[limber cradle]

They apply tox

For free

[narrow cosmos]

a lot?

[limber cradle]

Enough to matter

[narrow cosmos]

fair

[limber cradle]

Idk what the exact stack is tbh

[narrow cosmos]

will they pierce crusher armor?

wait

stupid question

you already said that

okay yeah

guess ill keep shiv throws for crushers

and see if that works

[limber cradle]

Nah youre fine

[narrow dagger]

5 think. 15 stacks of tox is more than enough to kill them

[limber cradle]

Questions are good

[narrow cosmos]

also i like, cant use nimble

so i dont take it

is that a big deal

[pulsar aspen]

Why cant you use it?

[narrow cosmos]

it fucks up my muscle memory and i usually miss melee attacks on dodge because i dodge too far

or dodge myself off ledges if im fighting near one

[pulsar aspen]

Well you can always practice

[limber cradle]

Personally I think nimble is one of the best talents in the whole tree

Nimble+Jittery is comically strong

[pulsar aspen]

Hive Scum should rely on avoiding damage and not facetanking it, like many people have grown used to it feels like.

[narrow cosmos]

yeah but i kinda dislike how far it throws me, i usually keep my fights very "close-cage" as keep everyone close around me and kinda "manhandle" enemies with pushes and rare timed dodges to keep them in check instead of sliding, flying and dodging all around a horde

[limber cradle]

You don't have to use it

You don't have to use anything

[marsh plover]

Is one mk of the needle gun better than the other?

[limber cradle]

They do different things

II is better for hordes, VI is better for single target

[vivid wedge]

I personally like to take no talents on hive scum and then larp as a dreg stalker with a 100 power IAG

[pulsar aspen]

Sure.

[prime violet]

I run needle pistol in h40 all the time, only switching to melee for captains and the occasional hound or burster kill.

[limber cradle]

I like that Desp turns the IAG into a baby machine gun with a like 126 round mag if you also take ammo jack

[narrow cosmos]

i use jittery and jittery is very useful i like it alot, but nimble throws my whole game off, when i tried using it it ended up screwing me over more than helping me, and even then, by not taking it i get to do like stupid shit at the end of the skill tree like taking extremely strong perks from all 3 trees

[limber cradle]

I don't think there is much I personally would take over nimble

If you do not like it tho, don't use it

[pulsar aspen]

Can you stay alive tho?

[modest patio]

Nimble is such a wildly good talent

[narrow cosmos]

not done 'cause not lvl 30 but im gonna take hypercrit, sweet spot and hive-city brawler

[mossy sedge]

at least thats consumable

[narrow cosmos]

yeah

[vivid wedge]

Yeah same, if you know how to make it work to your advantages you can cover crazy distance really quickly.

[mossy sedge]

soulblaze on pyro staff is just infinite value

[pulsar aspen]

What difficulty are you aiming for?(since you aren't lvl 30 yet)

[narrow cosmos]

i just keep going as i unlock them

so far has been working

[pulsar aspen]

Which means what difficulty?

[narrow cosmos]

rn damnation

soon auric

[pulsar aspen]

I see.

[narrow cosmos]

only moments i get absolutely folded is when theres like

crusher horde

and i have to rely on teammates

sometimes goes well, sometimes not so much

[pulsar aspen]

Bad news, those moments will happen more often.

[narrow cosmos]

great!

[modest patio]

Rotten armor H40, 12 armored enemies minimum every horde lol

[narrow cosmos]

might end up taking rocket launcher over toxblinds again if i start getting too fucked over by teammates not dealing with crushers

[pulsar aspen]

Havoc is an entirely different thing tho.

[prime violet]

Blinder secretly best grenade

[modest patio]

I suppose, Aurich feels like a speedrun after you jam some havoc

[narrow cosmos]

how armored are we talking though? like, armored rager, mauler, crusher?

[pulsar aspen]

You should be able to deal with Crushers by yourself and preferably without a method to delete the problem rather than practicing how to do it.

Maulers, Crushers, Ragers.

[modest patio]

You could theoretically get 12 crusher

[narrow cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

[modest patio]

You get 1-4 crusher, 1-4 rager, or 1-4 mauler during their calls. It’s always a combination of them

In high havoc being unable to deal with carapace is bold

You leave entire fights to teammates

[vivid wedge]

if the wave spawns all one type I've seen it be rager/maulers more often

[modest patio]

Which is fine if you trust them.

[sly hollow]

It feels like a lot of builds are gate kept by "can you fight 12 crushers"

[prime violet]

Well the only real carapace is crushers, since mualer and rager are carapace on chest

[pulsar aspen]

A lot of things can be solved with a good team.

[limber cradle]

Rot armor is infact a loadout check modifier

[narrow cosmos]

i mean, its not like i dont help, i will still throw in my toxblinders and sneak in the occasional charged heavy backstab, its just that i cant take them head on

[limber cradle]

Idc what anyone else says

[pulsar aspen]

@prime violet Scab Ragers have a Flak Helmet/Carapace Body, Mauler is the reverse.

[prime violet]

Rot armor is dot check

[limber cradle]

And/or AoE check

[pulsar aspen]

Only the Crusher is fully Carapace armoured

[prime violet]

Right right

[pulsar aspen]

And for some reason Scab Plasma Gunners have Carapace Helmets.

[narrow cosmos]

like, i can deal with maulers and armored ragers, because so far, i've just been spraying them with my uzis and it has been working

its just crushers because ALL the bullets just bounce off

[pulsar aspen]

That won't work forever

Yeah that is by design.

[limber cradle]

It kinda does

Like unless it's rot armor

[narrow cosmos]

how? i imagine their armor wont get thicker in the higher difficulties because that'd be silly, and i mean, i have 69 bullets loaded with like 70% reload speed and unlimited ammo, i dont see how itll stop working if i just keep shooting

[pulsar aspen]

No, their armour won't get thicker, but you get more of them and they have more HP.

[vivid wedge]

^

[narrow cosmos]

i have more bullets

[modest patio]

The desperado dap build works until high havoc imo. That build is just so strong. Throw on a weapon to handle crushers or rockets and you’re just fine

[pulsar aspen]

In addition to everything else also being more.

@narrow cosmos You do not.

[woeful trellis]

with enough time you can kill anything

the question is just whether or not you'll have enough time

[pulsar aspen]

Well lets put it this way.

[leaden fable]

Play rot armor and have crushers spawn faster than you can kill them lol

[modest patio]

In high havoc you’ll find things die slower so desperado will fall off more

[pulsar aspen]

If you are reliant on your ranged weapons to remove everything you never learn what to do when you suddenly DO NOT have that ranged weapon available, for whatever reason.

Meaning, you die.

[narrow cosmos]

one desperado proc lets me clear an entire wave of enemies, any enemy, specials, elites, walkers in damnation with no difficulty, and even then i only run out because i run out of enemies to kill, as of right now, how it looks to me is that if i just keep getting enemies thrown at me i will just keep shooting them

[vivid wedge]

Well yeah because it's damnation

[pulsar aspen]

That is because its damnation, and you have pickpocket.

[narrow cosmos]

how high is the difficulty spike?

[modest patio]

It’s probably worth you two just revisiting this conversation when Hell isn’t on damnation lol

[limber cradle]

You can, ime, shoot whatever the fuck you want in havoc unless it's a crusher/rot armor is on

[modest patio]

It’s not comparable

[pulsar aspen]

Heh, most likely Lucian.

[limber cradle]

With a desp build

[modest patio]

Entire teams that clear aurich consistently fold in havoc 10-21

[narrow cosmos]

this is the line of thought im on rn

[modest patio]

Let alone 35-40

[leaden fable]

Yeah it's really only carapace that's an issue for them

[pulsar aspen]

Auric Mentality is a thing.

[limber cradle]

If rot armor is on i do not run desp

But desp gun spam works outside of that with a bit of aim

[leaden fable]

Me firing an entire clip of dap into a bulwark shield

[pulsar aspen]

It is still possible and works, you just have to know what your loadout is capable of.

And yes, help from teammates is required, but that should be the norm in Havoc.

[modest patio]

Get to havoc for now, then worry about it later. It’s not that it isn’t possible, but you’ll see

[narrow cosmos]

i can handle myself with my melee, i've found myself in situations where i had very few bullets and desperado on cooldown and i managed to clear hordes with shivs, its just that relying on ranged is more efficient, as that is what the class is made for

[pulsar aspen]

A team and not 4 solo fighters.

[limber cradle]

Me circle strafing bulwarks to shoot their kidneys cause Nimble+Jittery exists

[pulsar aspen]

No, the class is not made for this.

Case in point, Rampage exists.

If it WOULD be made for this, we would have 3 variations of ranged builds.

I mean, Keystones.

[woeful trellis]

how much DPS does DAP do to crushers anyway? i'm assuming rending stimm also helps a decent amount, maybe you can kill one in 2 clips. i've never seen it work in practice but that doesn't mean it doesn't work

[limber cradle]

Its super not worth it even if you stack desp rending and stimm rending

[sly hollow]

Debatable, ranged isnt the only viable way to run the class

Shivs are just that good

[pulsar aspen]

@leaden fable The pling pling sound is pretty nice, have to say.

[narrow cosmos]

how is it not? one of the obvious builds is just magdumping hordes, the class can be made for more than one thing at a time, saying its not made for it is just not true? it can be made for ranged hordeclearing and melee fighting at the same time, it depends what you spec it out to be, but i can be both

[pulsar aspen]

You should not mag-dump hordes.

[woeful trellis]

i figured, 14k ehp on rotten armor crushers is probably a bit much without good ADMs

[leaden fable]

Like hail on a tin roof lol

[narrow cosmos]

thats what desperado is for

[pulsar aspen]

I disagree.

[limber cradle]

Call that shit tertium wind chimes

[vivid wedge]

you can actually kill a regular crusher in high havok after 2 H1's from purple poop cleaver with dual uzi's without even using 50% of a mag

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle

[narrow cosmos]

you get ability charge back the more you kill, thats just textbook "kill as many enemies as you can in this time period" and thats just hordeclearing

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle but stay away from the Torrent, i've read that the runoff from the hive is.. extremely corrosive and melt away roof metal sheets.

I disagree.

[woeful trellis]

honestly desperado kinda feels like purg psyker

[bronze glade]

desperado?

[narrow cosmos]

well whats your say then?

[bronze glade]

it's just gunker 2.0

[woeful trellis]

all soft targets killed with ranged and you use something else to kill carapace

[bronze glade]

more gun, less sword

[narrow cosmos]

or are you just ragebaiting me

[limber cradle]

Nah, love the torrent

Water cartel gang gang

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle I suppose some people are into having their skin melt away from waterdroplets

[narrow cosmos]

tread lightlies on top

[pulsar aspen]

@narrow cosmos No, iam not ragebaiting you. The Horde, as in poxwalkers and groaners, is never the issue. Everything that comes with them is.

[limber cradle]

Eve is one of the more genuine people you can talk to in this server ime

I don't think I've seen them ragebait anyone ever

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle How nice of you to say. I am inclined to return that compliment.

[narrow cosmos]

i mean the horde becomes the problem if its not dealt with

[pulsar aspen]

I disagree.

The specials, elites and ranged enemies will be the problem.

[limber cradle]

Appreciate it.

[pulsar aspen]

-HOWEVER- this may come from me probably having a different perspective on the whole thing.

[orchid timber]

how many stacks of the plague does knife throw apply?

[vivid wedge]

It's not really desperados sole goal to clear the hoard, but you should definitely be clearing the hoard to extend desperado. I find it helps to do this when fighting a boss particular since that's the main time you run thin on ammo.

[pulsar aspen]

Once you have experienced having a single shooter strip away all your toughness and 50% of your health, you might see it the same way. Or not, that is up to you.

[narrow cosmos]

fair enough, never having interacted with anyone here getting hit with "i disagree" is a common way people usually try to get a kick out of annoying someone, i apologize for insinuating that you may have been doing that

i hang around annoying people

or well, hanged around annoying people

[limber cradle]

Tbh I appreciate that too

Very mature

[orchid timber]

1 shotgunner will do that in a single shot, trash enemies are never an issue compared to them

[pulsar aspen]

I disagree because i disagree, but there is something called agree to disagree. Meaning we have different opinions but respect each others view on a thing.

[woeful trellis]

if desperado is up and everything higher priority is dead, you might as well shoot horde because i suspect an uninvested melee weapon won't clear as fast

[pulsar aspen]

@orchid timber May i introduce you to a Havoc 40 shooter.

[narrow cosmos]

riflemen groups usually arent really an issue for me, or havent been so far, because desperado just lets me ignore ranged attacks and that usually gives me enough time to deal with them

[vivid wedge]

See the thing is you are right

but you have to help your team

[pulsar aspen]

@narrow cosmos You have the luxury of doing so yes, but your teammates may not.

[narrow cosmos]

i mean the reason why i thought of that was because you said "i disagree" to me bringing up some points without really saying anything to disprove them, not really the fact that you were disagreeing with me, thats okay, i dont mind having different opinioins

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/goodbye-krill-world-krill-lobster-lobster-fried-krill-fried-gif-7150912747510295957

[orchid timber]

yes i'm agreeing with you, in that the trash enemies (plage walkers) aren't ever an issue when you compare them to something with range

[narrow cosmos]

im aware of agreeing to disagree

[limber cradle]

Stalkers are the bane of my existence

[clever fjord]

i end up clearing the horde because it's in the way of the thing I actually want to shoot

[limber cradle]

Is it blue stimm that makes stalkers shoot like 45 times in a burst?

[pulsar aspen]

@narrow cosmos Fun fact, i am not trying to convince anyone of my opinion. That is on them to decide.

[modest patio]

Will Hivescum be your first 30?

[vivid wedge]

No it's yellow I think

[rough peak]

B-but... what if I want you to try to convince me?

[limber cradle]

Whatever stimm makes stalkers do that shit is genuinely rage inducing lmfao

[narrow cosmos]

no, i have veteran up to 30 and everyone else around 27-28

[pulsar aspen]

@rough peak Iam afraid that is a -you- problem

[rough peak]

(fun fact: You don't, I know how fucked up havoc 40 shooters are)

[vivid wedge]

oh yeah you get one bursted a single frame of damage to be downed

[pulsar aspen]

And those are the toned down shooters. They used to be WAY worse.

[rough peak]

Yeah

[modest patio]

Was just curious, realized I started talking about havoc earlier without actually knowing if you had played havoc

[narrow cosmos]

except arbites i think my arbites is like 19

[narrow cosmos]

i think i played up to havoc 3

[clever fjord]

Also, I do way better with the 3-barrel shotgun than with the Vraks IAG, is it actually better or just a skill issue on my side that get's fixed by not having to aim very much?

[narrow cosmos]

but that was a bit ago

i've had the game for quite a long time

[upbeat gyro]

Returned to game after over 1½ year break, liked Arbiter now for couple weeks. Question is, is Hive Scum worth it too in its current state, read its pretty bugged and unfinished

[pulsar aspen]

Havoc S1 Shooters have been a nightmare

[narrow cosmos]

just havent been consistent with my playtime

[limber cradle]

It's worth it, if you're strong enough

It's a wildly powerful class

[narrow cosmos]

im a much better vermintide player than i am a darktide

[rough peak]

Yeah I remember how bad they were from how people talked about them.

[narrow cosmos]

im just now getting more seriously into it

[orchid timber]

havoc 3 is still child's play, i think it's equivalent to malice or heresy still

[pulsar aspen]

Some of the more hilarious and class-breaking buffs are fixed.

[vivid wedge]

I think its worth it if you enjoy fast pace gameplay and classes that benefit from minimal mistakes

[narrow cosmos]

im aware

[limber cradle]

Fwiw havoc isn't havoc proper till about 25

[narrow cosmos]

ic

[upbeat gyro]

Minimal mistakes doesnt describe me after loooong break, never was that amazing to begin with

[clever fjord]

me and my team feel the spike at 20-21

[upbeat gyro]

But maybe challenge is in order after easymode Arbites

[clever fjord]

19 we get bored

22 we get wiped

[prime violet]

Havoc 20 has the hardest modifier though, Nobusinessbeinghereplayer

[pulsar aspen]

@rough peak Most of those snippets are true, i would say. The bosses and Crushers weren't the dangerous enemy, that single shooter you missed in a corner was. Suddenly you have no HP anymore

[rough peak]

Yep

[limber cradle]

That's every havoc rank ime

[vivid wedge]

Challenging is a good way to describe it until you realize the mobility/evasion it has

[narrow cosmos]

if you like to play like you've just done a line of coke, yes, very fun and extremely powerful class if you know what you're doing with it

[orchid timber]

20 was the line between new easier havoc and what used to be the old havoc

[upbeat gyro]

Depends, if there is a dancefloor available nearby or not

[limber cradle]

Scum is basically the dead opposite of arb

[rough peak]

I acquired the skill of "listening to what the people who know what they are talking about" in vt2... It has served me well in darktide

[narrow cosmos]

does the pile of corpses you rake up count?

[limber cradle]

Arb will forgive your mistakes

Scum will make you acutely aware of them

[prime violet]

Yeah honestly havoc needs to be gated more strictly

[orchid timber]

i struggle more on vet than i do hive scum

[mossy sedge]

i dont think hvs is as challenging as people let on

admittedly i havent played in H40 yet

[pulsar aspen]

Perhaps.

[orchid timber]

isn't it only finishing 1 auric mission on any character to unlock it?

[prime violet]

I think it's a maelstrom

[pulsar aspen]

A Maelstrom mission would set it to 16.

[orchid timber]

maybe that's it, i can't remember for sure i did it a while ago

[pulsar aspen]

I don't know how you achieve a 1 tho.

[upbeat gyro]

Final question, can i make character that looks like this and is his name still free?

[rough peak]

isn't that auric maelstroms, specifically, for 16?

[limber cradle]

I agree, but i don't think much in DT is "that challenging" from a fundamental standpoint

[pulsar aspen]

@rough peak Well, yes, but i think there is no other Maelstrom mission anymore

[orchid timber]

mine started as 1 i think it was just complete an auric when i did it

[rough peak]

heresy

[prime violet]

Idk, but havoc 1-29 is like baby mode anyway

[pulsar aspen]

There is a Heresy Maelstrom?

[rough peak]

Yeah

[limber cradle]

Yes

Heresy and Auric have maels

Damn doesn't

[orchid timber]

there's heresy and suric maelstrom, no damnation

[pulsar aspen]

Heh, haven't been on Heresy for quite a while

[mossy sedge]

well fundamentals aside hvs just has really potent damage options

[narrow cosmos]

what do we think of the fit though

[mossy sedge]

and the dodge nodes in the middle of the tree give all the survivability it needs

[rough peak]

I only remember it cause when I scroll through the difficulties an extra mission pops up on heresy

[pulsar aspen]

Its basic.

[narrow cosmos]

fair

i like basic

[pulsar aspen]

If you like Vanilla Ice Cream, you'd like this.

[prime violet]

On that note, can we get more full torso options for scum

[mossy sedge]

its not like you have to work super hard to pump damage on hvs esp with desperado uzi spam

[narrow cosmos]

funny you say that, i love vanilla ice cream

[orchid timber]

not great but to be fair hivescum has jack squat for cosmetics

[prime violet]

With premium and dlc there's 3 total

[narrow cosmos]

its my favorite actually

[limber cradle]

Oh I agree

Tell that to everyone who got filtered by scum tho

[pulsar aspen]

Still more options than the Arbitrator

[prime violet]

At least the arbitrator has a shirt

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle As in, it was made aware to them that they don't have basics?

[rough peak]

Eh... on hive scum I'm more worried about avoiding getting hit than I am about maximizing my dps... granted I prefer not dying to dying, so I do that in general anyway

[prime violet]

Fucking fighting hertics with my nipples and belly button for the world to see

[narrow cosmos]

assert dominance

[limber cradle]

Look all I'm gonna say is you could tell who was playing arb right before scum released

[lapis raft]

well as scum unless you are create build your only job is being dps

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle I may agree with that

[livid raven]

i mained arbiter before scum

[rough peak]

Yes, but, I find my dps levels stay higher while I am alive rather than while I am dead

[mossy sedge]

well with all the dodge nodes in the middle of the tree, its not hard avoiding getting hit

[orchid timber]

ogryn got the pimp fit

[prime violet]

Until your whole team gets folded by twins of course and you are left with a spawn cap filled board

[orchid timber]

let me get on and i can show it

[pulsar aspen]

That sounds like a bad experience...how about 4 bosses at the same time?

[limber cradle]

I really miss shrines

Made auric fun

[prime violet]

Monstrosities aren't even a problem if you have needle pistol

You can melt all 4 simultaneously

[lapis raft]

twins + other bosses at same time are so annoying, twins alone are pretty chill

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle Very fun when some chuckle head activated a shrine while the mid event for gloriana was running

Predictably, the team got fucked

[prime violet]

Except every team backs themselves into a corner and hits every mine

[upbeat gyro]

So again was it here that promised me one free line of coke to go with this?

[limber cradle]

I'm ngl I would activate 2 at once if the team ran by them

[lapis raft]

yea i juts run create scum so i just walk through those :d

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle You know how Auric Teammembers are...

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/love-you-excited-coca-cola-gif-9158418

Oh wait, you meant the other coke didn't you...

[limber cradle]

I do, I would have to solo clutch those lmfao.

More often than not.

[pulsar aspen]

Same

[limber cradle]

Was fun for me tho and if we didn't lose

They can't complain

[pulsar aspen]

Just like i had to solo clutch the Rotten Armour event.

Because, as it turns out, when you get used to one shot everything, when that does not work anymore, you are left dead on the floor.

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/dam-damn-gif-27530020

[pulsar aspen]

THAT was my experience with the Rotten Armour EVENT

[pulsar aspen]

People just couldn't handle the armor because they never got to the situation that armor is actually threatening.

The same goes for the original release Plasma Gunners.

[rough peak]

pre-nerf plasma gunners...

[pulsar aspen]

While i do agree they where.. uhm.. questionably strong, it was fun seeing everyone get humbled

And rage about it

[lapis raft]

rotten armor is stupid modifier, idk why its even a thing

[rough peak]

I missed that cause I was on a break from darktide x.x

I regret missing them

[orchid timber]

i play clubgryn i was one of the few that didn't have to do anything different when rotten armor came out, just keep light attack spamming until they died

[pulsar aspen]

@rough peak It honestly was a lot of fun.

[prime violet]

Rotten armor is only shitty because how much it throws at you, it is very hard to push forward without dot or heavy dps

[rough peak]

Yeah... my darktide gaming coming in massive spurts finally screwed me out of an experience I wanted to have

[pulsar aspen]

True enough, could it be however that this is perceived as a problem because everyone is used to rush through everything?

[rough peak]

I missed omega op dog bleed as well due to that, but, that one I didn't care that I missed

[orchid timber]

pickaxe still 2 crushers shots with the right build but not everyone runs that and there's not too many running around anyways compared to the other classes

[prime violet]

I mean you can still speedrun if you have a taunt shield ogryn

[pulsar aspen]

@rough peak It was stupid, really stupid.

[rough peak]

I know, I saw some of the clips

[prime violet]

Just sprint to the hold events, ogryn blocks and pulls agro for everything, profit

[orchid timber]

i missed the dog bleed one too but idk what i was doing at the time, some other game had my whole attention probably

[pulsar aspen]

As stupid as people using doors to instant kill bosses because they don't want/can't deal with it in the expected way

[prime violet]

I'll crush a twin in a door every once in a while

[pulsar aspen]

Don't do it.

[orchid timber]

i didn't know that was a thing

[pulsar aspen]

What am i saying, do what you want.

[rough peak]

I never did that. Even when I knew about it, I never tried for some reason

[orchid timber]

sounds boring the bosses are supposed to bring some form of challenge when you can already 1 or 2 shot everything else

[pulsar aspen]

It's a very lame way of doing it, in my opinion

[prime violet]

Usually just a happy accident, in a doorway while kiting.

[pulsar aspen]

Doors shouldn't be closed in general

[rough peak]

Yeah, just give me a thammer and I'll do it easier

[pulsar aspen]

Too often people will get fucked over by it.

[rough peak]

Okay, but, we're not in gen chat...

[prime violet]

Team is busy getting punished by 2 poxwalkers

[rough peak]

[pulsar aspen]

If your team is getting punished by 2 poxwalkers, you have a far bigger problem

[rough peak]

I mean... randos are gonna rando, sometimes, no matter the difficulty

I remember seeing 1 single malice rager kill 1 oggy a psyker and I think a vet( 2 of which were level 30... and all 3 had max hp as well)

[pulsar aspen]

[lapis raft]

hey ragers rage, thats scary smh

[pulsar aspen]

I remember when i .. uhm.. "tried" to do a perma death challenge on zealot.

[rough peak]

I just stared at them as the rager ran at me

[orchid timber]

i get pieced up by ragers from time to time i can't lie

[rough peak]

I then murdered the rager cause it was 1 malice rager <.<

[pulsar aspen]

How hilariously bad those teammates were, by the throne.

[eager reef]

Sometimes you just eat shit

[pulsar aspen]

But that is okay, that is why there are on malice.

[prime violet]

Slap only ogryn challenge

[pulsar aspen]

Or perhaps it might have been Heresy at that point actually.

[eager reef]

Done that already

Super fun

[pulsar aspen]

Because Sedition used to be a thing

[rough peak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sw3ctxbAAk

[eager reef]

Slap carries all the buffs

[orchid timber]

slap applies bleed stacks way faster than swinging the club when you're talented into the bleed

[eager reef]

Including bleed

MK1 club (anti armor one) optimal horde clear is slapping

Bc of how fast it is paired with stagger force

[orchid timber]

i prefer the mark 3 (anti everything and their momma)

[eager reef]

I also prefer the 3

Plus it helps your team

[rough peak]

Is that the basher?

[eager reef]

Yep

[rough peak]

That's the one I like too

[orchid timber]

it's the one you just non stop light attack to win

[lapis raft]

punch rampage toxin scum do not even sounds that terrible :d

[eager reef]

My favorite thing to do on ogryn is pick an elite i dont like and slap it to death

Before it carried buffs it was amusing to just slap them around for several minutes

[rough peak]

Okay, hear me out... dclaw + shred + melee crits apply toxin + light spam...

[eager reef]

I already do this

[rough peak]

[eager reef]

Again, very fun

[pulsar aspen]

Yup, it is actually not a new concept

[lapis raft]

yea i was considering that on my scum as well

with the stagger enchant as well

[rough peak]

Okay, but, what about shroudfield + heavy sword + brauto? on zelly

Don't do it lol

[eager reef]

I dont play zealot. Ever.

[pulsar aspen]

😵‍💫

Iam sorry what?

[rough peak]

I ran that cancer for who knows how long after talent trees were released

[pulsar aspen]

Did it work out?

[rough peak]

Yes, but, only cause I am good at clutching x.x

[lapis raft]

zealot shroudfield is what i played most of the time before scum, shroudfield very fun

[rough peak]

It was my "clutch" build

and boy did I have to clutch with that shit when randos all died <.<'

that was stressful af

[pulsar aspen]

Well, maybe you did, but maybe those situations were created by you using that build.

And you just correct the damage it has caused.

[rough peak]

I know, that's why I am telling you to avoid the build

[lapis raft]

shroudfield creates those situations a lot even when running normal setup on it :d

[pulsar aspen]

That is simply something i ask myself sometimes when i see Shroudfield.

[eager reef]

I used to chase the shroudfield zealots on ogryn to kite enemies towards them

You're going to help, ill make sure of it

[prime violet]

funny hammer though

[rough peak]

I only used shroudfield when clutching, generally speaking, when I ran it

I didn't use that for aggro dumping, that's a toxic shitty thing to do

fuck aggro dumping

[pulsar aspen]

Yeah but how many of those situations would have never happened had you played with Fury or Chorus?

[rough peak]

More times with chorus, less times with fury cause it still downgraded armor with a gun then

[lapis raft]

me when i see zealot + psyker while playing cdr crate scum me when they are shroudfield and scriers gaze

[eager reef]

But wait, im playing left click shock staff, feed me the cdr

[pulsar aspen]

Scriers Gaze is, at least from my observations, a surefire way to ruin the fun for everyone else.

[rough peak]

I don't like chorus, myself. I like my career doing something besides actively setting my dps to 0

[pulsar aspen]

Because the Psyker will just kill everything.

But then again, the Psyker will most likely kill everything regardless, so...

[rough peak]

Psykers have 3 flavors: Kill everything, Die to everything, and try to cc everything with success or death as the outcomes

[pulsar aspen]

@rough peak I like this

[prime violet]

Chorus/bubble/voc/crate gives femboy medic main vibes

[rough peak]

At least voc and bubble don't set your dps to 0 for their effects x.x

same for crate

[pulsar aspen]

Best CC is to kill the enemy?

[prime violet]

No that can't be true

[rough peak]

Nah, cc all the way

[lapis raft]

https://tenor.com/view/redlettermedia-mikestoklasa-value-gif-7708788

[rough peak]

if you don't cc the enemy you die

duh

[prime violet]

Better take every defensive skill and try to wall your way through a single mission for the next 180 minutes

[pulsar aspen]

This be an endless discussion if i start it.

[lapis raft]

i follow bubble psykers like good doggy and drop crates under their feet because they wouldnt walk into it anyway by themselves

[rough peak]

There's 1 thing I would try to use chorus for if I took it: Ledging monsters

[pulsar aspen]

@prime violet Rogal Dorn would be proud of you.

@rough peak That is one use case of it yes, but it has more.

[rough peak]

Otherwise I'd hit f, realize I was doing 0 dps, then cancel it

[prime violet]

When you turn around and see your whole team is just holding block

[pulsar aspen]

You enable your team to do more and you keep yourself and the team alive.

DPS is not the be all and end all.

[rough peak]

This might be true, but, killing the enemies enables your teammates to not die and keeps yourself and your teammates alive

[pulsar aspen]

So, we are back to best CC is to kill the enemy.

[prime violet]

Im going to pretend i didn't see that

[eager reef]

I dont worry about my team, if they go down ill jsut pick them up

[prime violet]

My lizard brain only know damage and mobility

[pulsar aspen]

[rough peak]

I prefer killing the enemies for cc to ccing the enemies, but, both have use case scenarios and saying otherwise would be close minded of me

[pulsar aspen]

@prime violet Are you a lizardman?

https://tenor.com/Zaj8.gif

Ah wait, thats a Frog.

[rough peak]

Close enough

[pulsar aspen]

Praise be Lord Mazdamundi.

https://tenor.com/buvWF.gif

Thats better.

[rough peak]

b-but... frogs are cool...

[pulsar aspen]

Yes, Frogs are cool too. Slann are Slann.

[prime violet]

Is anything 4chan associates themselves with really cool?

Besides maybe blowing up vans

[rough peak]

I don't think I've ever intentially gone on 4chan(if I ever even have, which I am 99% sure I haven't)

[prime violet]

Its a great place to fester your mental illness

[rough peak]

My mental illness already does that without any help, I don't need help removing what is left of my dwindling pool of sanity

There's a reason why I avoided sedition on new characters when it was there <.<'

[pulsar aspen]

Sedition 👀

[rough peak]

This is better than sedition was >.<'

[livid raven]

god i love maelstrom people

[pulsar aspen]

Same, what happened?

[livid raven]

lv 30 ogryn took around 3k damage

and activated a daemon host for no reason

[prime violet]

He's still learning

[pulsar aspen]

That is a lot of damage, you think he ran 3x healths?

[livid raven]

no, he died a fuckton of times

[pulsar aspen]

Damn

[livid raven]

he died two times as soon as he was liberated too

[pulsar aspen]

Shield?

[livid raven]

no, just mace

i think it was the normal maul

[bronze glade]

He’s taking the ogryn RP seriously

[rough peak]

I took 2.3k damage on my oggy when a friend dragged me into an auric maelstrom(with pox gas) on an asia server where I had 200 ping... and I only went down at the very end during the assassination boss fight. I had to solo clutch that run as well <.<'

muties were going through me

that was before the talent tree overhaul on oggy

[pulsar aspen]

I had to play with massive ping one time in a heresy mission. It was.. a lot of fun.

It was essentially russian roulette if something would actually connect or not

[livid raven]

it was also an easy modifier too

[rough peak]

That was the 1st time I have taken over 1.5k(I'd say 1k, but, I am not quite as sure about that since I ran marty a lot) damage in a long while

[mossy sedge]

im just realizing from this chat sedition difficulty doesnt exist anymore

[rough peak]

Good ridance, tbh. It was too boring :\

[bronze glade]

Yeah they removed sedation as part of the difficulty rework 😭

Sedation will always live on in my heart

[mossy sedge]

RIP

[rough peak]

The hardest difficulty in the game was low int sedition(cuz you had to stay awake for it)

[livid raven]

it's true

[mossy sedge]

how many did that spawn

like 4 enemies per run>

[rough peak]

gotta say: it feels good not having 10% experience on my curios now

[livid raven]

i dread the next time i'll have to redo that

especially if the class has dogwater low levels like the hivescum

[pulsar aspen]

@mossy sedge It might have been an enemy density where regenerating toughness through Coherency Toughness was faster than your methods of regaining through combat.

So, there aren't a lot of enemies.

[mossy sedge]

i cant remember the last time i played the first difficulty

even recently

[rough peak]

I played uprising for when I was level 1 on hive scum

but that's the newer 1st difficulty

[exotic temple]

Vultures dodge makes you immune on crit. So you basically are immune until you start running out of targets

[narrow cosmos]

immune to ranged, melee or both?

[lavish bronze]

ranged

[narrow cosmos]

already immune to ranged during desperado so kinda worthless i think

[bronze glade]

akshaully

it's immunity to melee too

and it's also up regardless of desperado

you just need to crit

[narrow cosmos]

okay thats a bit more interesting then

[dim moth]

the absolute biggest driving force behind gun scum being too strong

[rough peak]

tfw you load into a mission and you just know you should have stopped playing first >.>

[bronze glade]

i think you do need to be moving, but yeah it applies to melee

[narrow cosmos]

i know, but the moment you start stacking vulture alot is when you pop desperado

[dim moth]

vulture's dodge is independent of vulture itself

[narrow cosmos]

thats kinda crazy hold on

[bronze glade]

yeah

it's just crits

which should be happening all the time

[narrow cosmos]

wait this might be goated

[bronze glade]

this is basically empathic evasion on psyker

[narrow cosmos]

booting up the game rn

[bronze glade]

except better

[astral canyon]

Free damage and movement speed

[bronze glade]

(and locked as a keystone node)

[narrow cosmos]

chemdep does it better in that regard

[astral canyon]

It doesnt

[narrow cosmos]

it does

[astral canyon]

Not at all

[final temple]

movement speed is whatever when you have desperado

[rough peak]

That's what I thought, since it didn't say "while vulture is active", but, fatshark descriptions

[astral canyon]

Dependency is just crit chance

[narrow cosmos]

read through the entire convo if you wanna see my point on it

[astral canyon]

Meanwhile vulture does damage+crit chance with a single point

[narrow cosmos]

wait deadass this is stupid

[exotic temple]

Two different modes. Mark 2 Yellow kills everything that isn’t a boss for 5 shots or less. Blue spreads stacks of toxins on kill. So find a horde mag dump blue watch them dissolve get back bunch of stim cooldown

[narrow cosmos]

what

[bronze glade]

yeh

[narrow cosmos]

okay im gonna have to tweak my build around brb

[dim moth]

notably Mark 6 does the same thing single target wise but usually with only 3 shots

I only need to fire two to get a reasonable crusher TTK when using bonesaw

[narrow cosmos]

wait toxscum might be kinda fire i might need to try that out

[lapis raft]

saving ammo would be pretty valuable if pickpocket wasnt a thing :d

[exotic temple]

Everything, the mechanic is weird because it puts you into a dodge state so any aoe damage will still hit but you can just dance around and melee hits won’t track you

[dim moth]

https://fximgur.com/a/9Qi1X4A

yes

[lapis raft]

you can put videos on imgur? tf

[narrow cosmos]

what the fuck 😭

[exotic temple]

Ranged does nothing and and counts as a dodge so all the on dodge stuff procs

[flat lotus]

@dim moth oh yeah i got to ask

whats the tox scum build

i want to try it that sounds funny

[dim moth]

yeah just default imgur links embed as gifs for some reason

fximgur is a third party embed that makes them embed as proper videos with sound

[bronze glade]

ah yes the most effective saw tactic: light spam flailing 😭

[dim moth]

like the various twitter embeds like fxtwitter, vxtwitter, fixupx, etc.

[dim moth]

heavies are slow man

[lapis raft]

ah, cute

heavies on saw also suck against armor anyway so why bother

[rough peak]

I said this once and I'll say it again: imagine a world where the hive scum got duellist instead of zealot

[dim moth]

and if I'm trying to rely on my toxin damage to kill things

[lapis raft]

moight as well just spam lights :d

[dim moth]

swing faster mean more toxin

the horde clear heavies are still waaaaay better than light spam though

[bronze glade]

yeah i know, i just hate the weapon design

[bronze glade]

when i tested lights were faster

just pure light spam

the heavies are so fucking stupidly slow

[dim moth]

yes that's faster but it's also easier to just miss an attack and oh hey there goes all my cleave

thank you decimator very cool

[bronze glade]

even throwing in push attack isn't worth it

[bronze glade]

yeah true

[final temple]

both frenzy and vm being the same as the abilities but passive is indicative of creative issues to make them more universally appealing. to be fair, I am struggling of coming up with better alternatives that aren’t just other classes keystones.

[lapis raft]

well adrenaline frenzy is already other classes keystone anyway

[narrow cosmos]

okay i now have cracked critchance and vultures dodge i will run a mission and update to all if i achieve immortality

[lapis raft]

if it had actually interesting keystone modifiers would def be less boring

[dim moth]

given that adrenaliune frenzy has 2 ways to massively increase stack gain

[lapis raft]

isnt like wrath + shock and awer fine

[dim moth]

it should totally have some kind of effect that briefly activates when max stacks are reaches

[dim moth]

it is but my damage :(

[lapis raft]

decimator doesnt even effect the toxin damage anyway right so not that big loss :d

[exotic temple]

Don’t forget slippery it’s broken shit trifecta, desp, vd, and slippery

[upbeat gyro]

Lvl 5 now, can i just get lvl 500 weapons on if i just spend resources already? And if yes, then Shivs the go-to for melee on Hive Scum?

[lapis raft]

and the base damage on the lights isnt very impressive anyway

[livid raven]

now this is the rare good maelstrom

vraks feels so shit to use compared to shredder and double autogun but man it kills bosses

[exotic temple]

The damage is nuts but it makes me feel like bargain bin vet

[pulsar aspen]

So what.

That is what you are.

[worn yoke]

how does it feel shit

[pulsar aspen]

Considering that the Imperial Guard does get a lot of recruits from Hive population.

[wraith robin]

If I reach max range damage boost from Unload talent, and then reload my gun, for how long I'll keep that damage boost? Will it reset the damage boost back to 2%? Or will it just refresh the stack, and until I keep firing, I'll be dealing 20% more damage?

[bronze glade]

i don't like vraks on HIV either

as strong as it is

[livid raven]

shit mobility

[pulsar aspen]

@livid raven Who of those are you?

[livid raven]

HivesCum

[pulsar aspen]

Nvm i saw.

[exotic temple]

I wouldn’t say shit just off. You still get good mobility and can slide into close range with iag, but dap or shredder with built in run and gun just feels better

[livid raven]

shredder gets like what

6? dodges

like yeah you are still somewhat speedy but you can't dodge slide as much

[narrow cosmos]

this?

[exotic temple]

Yes

[livid raven]

still, it was the best choice for a boss modifier in maelstorm

[hardy maple]

if yall had to pick one of the big gatcha games out now which would yall say is the best

[mental igloo]

I wouldn't

[limber cradle]

Seconded

[livid raven]

i'd rather not

[woeful hill]

I'd not

[astral canyon]

Thirded

Actually more like fifthed by now

[narrow cosmos]

is no thank you an option

[hardy maple]

damn damn, okay I get it

[pulsar aspen]

Crash and Burn.

[bronze glade]

melks curio shop

[astral canyon]

Truuu

[lapis raft]

damn almost 90% uptime new record i think :d

[dim moth]

I don't use it

honestly if you dodge slide enemies tend to just miss anyways

[mighty belfry]

All you need is nimble lol

You get so much distance that you end up out of melee range in a vast majority of situations anyway.

[modest patio]

Weird place to ask about gachas I think

[dim moth]

none of them are good simply by the very nature of being a gacha game

every single one of them is a digital casino that wears the skin of a videogame to bait you into playing them and skirt gambling laws

[mighty belfry]

I fundamentally despise the idea of gambling in video games in the first place so by proxy, I can't enjoy gachas.

[abstract inlet]

is there any reason to use shredder rather then dual uzis?

And any reason to use either instead of vraks autogun?

[bronze glade]

better ergonomics

DAP is prob a bit stronger overall

but SAP is also very good

Vraks is going to be DPS king

and stupidly strong

but worse mobility than DAP/SAP

[astral canyon]

And style points too

[dim moth]

it can crit

more than dual autopistols can say

[abstract inlet]

neat

and it reloads faster, I'll give it a shot thx

[abstract inlet]

annnd that's probably a deal breaker, lmao

[bronze glade]

yeah i mean it's very strong

but i don't like how it feels

[abstract inlet]

I already hate dodging with guns tho, so maybe I'm just a bad gun player

[bronze glade]

SAP and brauto are my preferred HIV desp bullet hoses

[abstract inlet]

which brauto?

[bronze glade]

agri

[abstract inlet]

k

[bronze glade]

because it's got a crap ton of cleave

for an automatic at least

so even though it has ass mobility, the cleave + stagger makes horde management not too bad

[dim moth]

ass mobility AND can't crit for shit

somehow better crit than dual autopistols

[limber cradle]

Gambling in bg3? Fun. Gambling with actual money on boxes? Go to hell.

[bronze glade]

does it?

i know DAP crits are shit

[limber cradle]

Idk

[pulsar aspen]

Are they tho?

[limber cradle]

They still crit more often than not ime

[bronze glade]

but not sure if worse than brauto

[abstract inlet]

I will always love graia more because it shoots stupid fast braced, but it SUUUUCKS

[bronze glade]

yeah graia's a total fucking peashooter

[limber cradle]

Like people talk about DAP crits but in practice those things are never not proccing VD

[dim moth]

yeah because the braced autogun has a crit string of 2

and the dual autopistols don't have one

[bronze glade]

lol right

[limber cradle]

I don't think they need it

[dim moth]

sure but if they bot hhave shit crit damage

but one of them crits about twice as often because every crit is actually two

[bronze glade]

DAP has recon las levels of finesse iirc

at least the whereabouts

not sure about brauto

[limber cradle]

Idc about the actual crit damage on em tbh

They defo don't need to be doing more damage ime

[bronze glade]

brautos do 😭

DAPs are fine

even if i don't like them

[limber cradle]

Are we talking about DAPs or Brautos rn

[bronze glade]

i think both

[limber cradle]

I meant DAPs fwiw

[abstract inlet]

technically both

[limber cradle]

I don't touch Brautos

Stinky gun for stinky people

[mighty belfry]

Okay lemme clarify and say actual gambling .

[abstract inlet]

Fr, I want chaos not an addiction

[astral canyon]

Imagine if we had hive scum during the stolen rations event with infinite ranged cleave

[abstract inlet]

Imagine if scum had eviscerator

[astral canyon]

Ok

Im imagining it

Now what

[abstract inlet]

nothing changed did it?

[astral canyon]

No not really

[exotic temple]

I like having it as an extra oh shit button.

[dim moth]

100% crit chance perfect strike

[exotic temple]

I get some random hits when I don’t take it which to be honest I just recover back but as soon as I start shooting.

[viscid crow]

What are you guys opinion on buffed rotten armor? Personally I feel it suck ass when combined with any havoc 2.0 modifier

Final toll or garden especially

[keen timber]

It's just unfun

[abstract inlet]

slippery's fantastic, but I don't care for vulture dodge. I lose chem addiction

and I NEEEEEED IIIIT

[lapis raft]

i just take everything :d

[charred bronze]

unpopular opinion: with effective use of cdr stimm, you don't need chem dep for Desperado uptime, and you may be losing overall output taking it over vulture's mark

[astral canyon]

You 100% are losing output

[keen timber]

Vultures is also only a single point investment, or two if you want dodge also, and it provides more damage than chem dep

much more

[abstract inlet]

counter point; +20% crit, +20% toughness dr, +stimm with rending strength instead of cdr

[prime violet]

Counter offer, dont use cdr stim at all, take 4 stack chem dependency, and only use rending stim

[keen timber]

only 5% crit more than vultures, and gives up 15% movespd and 15% ranged damage AND takes double the amount of talent points, or quadruple if you skip vultures dodge

u have infinite ammo anyway and u have jittery + slippery customer

literally just dont get hit

[lapis raft]

you will get hit at some point, both are good options

[keen timber]

sure you will get hit, but a single hit isn't the issue

the issue is you're chaining all these hits on a class that has some of the best dodging in the game

[prime violet]

The movespeed is basically worthless, and you never start engagements with the buffs up, and the stacks dont deteriorate

[abstract inlet]

elite hunting is annoying and occassionally unreliable

[prime violet]

Not to mention if you are fighting a boss you likely have 0 stacks up the whole time

[charred bronze]

calling movespeed worthless on despo is a weird take

[charred bronze]

there's always trash around to pop

at auric+

[keen timber]

in havoc there's more than enough

[prime violet]

When have you ever moved more than like 20 feet in a heavy engagement

[keen timber]

the 15% from vultures

which is basically permanent

[keen timber]

In havoc40?

quite a lot

as you should be

[abstract inlet]

I will agree move speed with a close range gun is EXTREMELY helpful

[keen timber]

so like

90% of the options hive scum has avalible ?

[limber cradle]

Movement is the best stat in every game ever made.

[keen timber]

guh?

[limber cradle]

That is all.

[keen timber]

this.

again also, there's the point investment difference

u ALSO have to factor in the points saved on vultures which is power elsewhere in the kit

[prime violet]

Im not arguing that, because it is generally true, but everything is just a dense cluster in 40

[keen timber]

I mean sure sometimes u end up fucked in tiny rooms

but often u have space to back off into bigger areas

[charred bronze]

all I'm saying is that I get why people are taking chem dep, and it's obv effective for players, but it's very far from strictly superior to vm + vd

[prime violet]

It definitely has its use case, like your team already has boss damage handled and you are going to only focus on specials/elites/horde. But pubs already struggle enough when there is 1 boss or 3 crushers on the board