hivescum-class

[mighty belfry]

I think the passive toughness regen is a little underrated

[novel oracle]

On adrenaline?

Oh definitely

[spark gyro]

what blessings should i be running on dual autopistols

just realized ive been running with the same blessings i had when i got it

[worn yoke]

i use blaze away and pinning fire but people usually recommend blaze and speedload iirc

[spark gyro]

ic

ty

[novel oracle]

Speedload is a godsend on them for a ranged build

You just never stop shooting

Ive converted some god jamers to speedload for them

[worn yoke]

i get pinning on my ranged build because im a dork that likes bigger number 😔

[zenith fern]

desperado autopistol does rock

[novel oracle]

But a reload that finishes before your slide does is peak

So you just never
Stop
Shooting

Which is especially broken when vultures dodge exists

[worn yoke]

no no i completely get why people use it i just like pinning a lot

[novel oracle]

I honestly didnt notice a difference

Its strength on top of strength

And its not like ifs that much more

[mint valve]

What are the best blessings for dual deags, and what is the dump stat for it

[zenith fern]

mobility if not wrong

run and gun is a must

[worn yoke]

mobilty dump speedload and run n gun

[worn yoke]

idk its 25% more strength and really easy to activate on them maybe its just placebo all along

maybe im just stupid 😔

[mint valve]

And as for the perks

Using it just as a general sidearm for crowbar rampage

Im guessing flak and maniac

[worn yoke]

yep

[mint valve]

Figured

[jaunty coral]

what is considered 'close range' for this

[final temple]

collateral.

[amber sundial]

12.5 meters iirc

[novel oracle]

Its more strength is valued because its uncommon, and multiplicitive with damage resulting in a bigger effect than expected
Byt the inverse is also true, if you have way more strength than damage, adding on damage would see the biggest benefit

[rich carbon]

is there a combat shotgun version of the double barrel street-sweeper build

[candid flint]

byt

[novel oracle]

Not my fault that my phones autocorrect is selective with the mistakrs it chooses to fix
Such as that one

[candid flint]

mistakrs

mods, can you step in here

[candid flint]

@dreamy hound

epic cole spelling mistakes

can you do something

[novel oracle]

This is hardly a crime
Certainly nowhere near a stan-grade offense

[mint valve]

The dense hordes covering the flamer tell me otherwise

[dreamy hound]

sorry cole, going to have to ban you for this one

[candid flint]

if auto-correct is failing you, then someone must step in

[zealous ravine]

mods kill kill everyone

with hammers

[candid flint]

skele must do the correcting

[mint valve]

No, instead do it with scalpels

[zealous ravine]

yeah why not

[worn yoke]

how good is vultures mark vs chem dependcy for a desperado build

[candid flint]

chem dependency is pretty much the go-to keystone for all builds at the moment

[worn yoke]

i see

ive been running 2 cd and then going into reflex for my stimm

[candid flint]

its because it benefits melee, and ranged, and lets you spam your ult more (whatever that ult is) whereas vultures is ranged benefit only, and adrenaline is melee b enefit only

[prime violet]

Cdr on chem dependency pretty much makes it better, regardless of the other buffs

[worn yoke]

ty guys!!

[candid flint]

yw

470$ for that information

cashapp, venmo or paypal

[worn yoke]

also whats the sweet spot for uptime maxed out chems

[astral canyon]

For desperado vulture 100%

[worn yoke]

FOUR SEVENTY??

[zenith pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-penis-mr-penis-cat-gif-6866592718592461157

[candid flint]

whiteboy aint cheap during whiteboy winter

[worn yoke]

whiteboy got hands

[compact valley]

what curios do yall run? 2x tough 1x stam?

[astral canyon]

3x stamina (dont)

[compact valley]

imma do it and blame you

[worn yoke]

3x tough because i am made of glass

[zenith fern]

You dont need glass when you can be cannon

[limber cradle]

Normally that, yeah.

[prime violet]

Crit chance curios when

[brittle sierra]

no I don't agree with this

I know this is darktide, but why do people like spreading misinformation on Scum the most? I don't get it 🤔

[compact valley]

I can smell the mister e enjoyer

[zealous ravine]

chem dependency is so awesome that i dont like a single part of it

[compact valley]

cause thats where that shi comes from

[zealous ravine]

i mean i guess crit chance is kinda cool i guess

but it has no flavor

[candid flint]

or maybe my opinion is my own

[brittle sierra]

wait Mr E said Chem is meta?

[zealous ravine]

and limits my stimm

[candid flint]

and was founded when i played the class in closed playtest

before mr e videos ever came out

[compact valley]

said the other two are dogshit and shouldnt be used

[brittle sierra]

dam bro, I guess free damage is dogshit huh 😔

[zealous ravine]

i'd like a chem dependency keystone to allow me to yknow use more stimms or stronger stimms smh

[prime violet]

You may not like it but this is what peak tweaking looks like

[zealous ravine]

not enough

[brittle sierra]

ah yes the good old "it's just my opinion" when someone forces you to dig into your heels, gotta love it 😈

[final temple]

he didn’t really say dogshit. but they are inferior.

plus there ARE some remaining issues with some nodes

[prime violet]

Having the cdr means higher uptime on your ability, higher uptime on your ability means higher uptime on stimm. See where this is going?

[compact valley]

when you talk about meta slave videos thats what that means

[amber sundial]

Free dmg when you get a bajillion % power is quite nice

[candid flint]

yep you really got me on the backfoot here, wow yo ureall got me digging in my heels oh my god i am so fucked

mods hlep stop him

[brittle sierra]

Mr E get's his ass carried every single game

[astral canyon]

No way in hell vulture is worse than dependency

[zealous ravine]

dependency cant even do what the name implies lmao

[amber sundial]

If only we got the version that actually gave stim cd

[brittle sierra]

"go to keystone atm"

ah yes, very interesting opinion you got there, please can you explain why?

[zealous ravine]

yea and with some funny downside but big upside subnodes

[astral canyon]

Bug

[zealous ravine]

buge

[candid flint]

safe to say most people value cdr

waht keystone grants most cdr

[compact valley]

Generally with the keystones its more so a real world use case. Paper chem depend is best, real world adrenaline is plenty viable and oftentimes the play

[amber sundial]

I value CDR the LEAST on this class

[brittle sierra]

guys guys

cdr good, nuff said

crate:

[amber sundial]

Since we don’t get CD back when our abilities are active CDR is basically useless to me

[zealous ravine]

imagine if crate was real

[prime violet]

Crate kinda belongs in the trash

[brittle sierra]

actually, I hate the fact it is ability cdr

make it STIMM cdr

please fatshark

[zealous ravine]

god stimm cdr would make me consider it

[astral canyon]

Both imo

[zealous ravine]

it would still be kinda mid but i can go with that

[amber sundial]

This was what the testers suggested why did we get ability cdr

[final temple]

I would switch the TDR node with the core chem dep node.

[candid flint]

most scum i encounter ingame are running chem dependency

[prime violet]

We already have stimm cool down keystone, sample collector

[compact valley]

Thats great its likely cause they just flock to youtube and copy paste

[zealous ravine]

why does the talent have all the flavor and not the full on keystone

[compact valley]

ive had more luck bouncing build ideas off this discord than listening to the general consensus in havoc 40s

[astral canyon]

There is some merit on chem dependency for specific melee builds but for ranged desperado builds you really cant beat vulture for how much value it gives for a single point

[prime violet]

Majority of h40 players will have you believe VoC, chorus, and bubble are necessary

[candid flint]

cuz most of those people are in an echochamber

[amber sundial]

I wouldve liked having mega buffs while stim was up but when its not active id have some debuff, just like tonic from RoR2

For chem dep

[zealous ravine]

oh for sure

[candid flint]

the havoc 40s, that is

[brittle sierra]

ah yes the shitters in my PUB games with 12 wounds: 😎

they are the meta

[amber sundial]

Hey +2 wound curios are rare you gotta show em off

[candid flint]

hey, so so sorry that my pub gamers are different than your pub gamers i am so sorry

[zealous ravine]

i mean if you somehow got 12 wounds im sure you can manage anything the game will throw at you

[brittle sierra]

woah, it's almost like it's an anecdotal claim that your personal experiences don't represent the actually data???

🤯

finaly we are on the same page

[zealous ravine]

why are we reading a book thats not allowed

[brittle sierra]

tru

[candid flint]

daddy dont hurt my daddy you are so big and strong and smart and dominant oh my god i am so sorry wow

[zealous ravine]

not allowed either

[brittle sierra]

why do you think it's bait and then fall for it anyways?

[amber sundial]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/914508501697576990/1314542204722741248/caption.gif?width=778&height=671

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1323784538232717364/1377429556247662744/attachment-8.gif

[candid flint]

target enraged

[final temple]

Why not bait if bait shaped?

[brittle sierra]

whales take the bait off the hook

[zealous ravine]

hive scum the type of class to see a sandwich under a cartoon trap and fall for it

[amber sundial]

God forbid there’s a giant red ❌ somewhere

[brittle sierra]

this is the equivalent of someone putting a bear trap down, stepping on it themselves and screaming: "WHY DID YOU BAIT MEEEE?????"

[zealous ravine]

actually someone else put the sandwich there

my bets on the jokaero

[compact valley]

all seriousness the chem dependency bs is cause its theoretical that you can be in combat for every stim. Reality is youll be chasing it and burning stims on nothing

[final temple]

what’s on the sandwich?

[zealous ravine]

i was being serious when i called it mid

[limber cradle]

We talking some scooby doo mf

[compact valley]

for the other guy foo

[zealous ravine]

evil sludge

[limber cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/shaggy-scooby-doo-sandwich-food-hungry-gif-4667514

[amber sundial]

One med stim (they can’t pick it up since they have cartel stim)

[zealous ravine]

(tastiest meal in atoma)

[brittle sierra]

I understand the CDR, but stimms gives you cdr too

which you inject anyways to get the ability back up

[worn yoke]

may i see a vulture build D:

[brittle sierra]

and dependency doesnt GIVE ME STIMM CDR

[brittle sierra]

no

sorry

[amber sundial]

Ones in pins I think

[brittle sierra]

come back tomorrow

[candid flint]

that is 235$

to view

[zealous ravine]

235 robux

[prime violet]

someone would have to hate themselves enough to use it first

[brittle sierra]

it would be soo crazy having a DEP build where you just are injecting stimms every 5 seconds

[amber sundial]

235 cod points

[zealous ravine]

too scary way too scary

[zealous ravine]

this is the future the woke hive scum want

also what i want

[brittle sierra]

I wish I was woke

I'm always tired 😞

[zealous ravine]

zamn

[worn yoke]

yeah i see the autopistol one preciate it boss

[amber sundial]

But if your woke you won’t get rested

[amber sundial]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1047636183896834202/1086290072078389268/freeze-2.gif

[amber sundial]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1288701442122846322.gif?quality=lossless&name=Biruta&size=128

[candid flint]

aight now i got ragebaited

i cant stand m1 enemy target bind spam

the only thing that will legit make me leave the match lmfao. anything else, i can stand

[main wagon]

Nah you're justified

Kill them with hammers

Part of killing M1 macro psykers should've been removing the ability to bind M1 and tag to the same key

[tropic crag]

never ran into that once tbh, people spamming scroll wheel from time to time to rapid ping i'll see (i'm one of them lol) but not doing that

[main wagon]

It's Fatshark's failure, not your own weakness

Stand tall, altmer. You are strong

[tropic crag]

like if i'm alone and there is a big group of dangerous things like that i'll roll my finger up the scroll wheel to ping the whole group rapid first to show the team what i'm dealing with

[main wagon]

My teammates get as many pings is necessary for my dog to actually start engaging a target

Sometimes it's one, sometimes it's 3 and I feel slime oozing out of my pores

[tropic crag]

i just don't take dog tbh

attack speed is better than dog

[main wagon]

I feel ICKY when my thing accidentally double pings when I try to ping a dog on top of me as non-Arby

Douglas just aint for me

[tropic crag]

thats earnestly a you problem

rapid pinging has alot of good uses as long as its only used like twice a match at most

[main wagon]

I really like having the ability to kill a sniper/gunner that runs away without having to chase it

[main wagon]

"A lot of good uses"

"Used twice at most"

Lmao

[tropic crag]

on arby you just use the shotpistol, it can snipe everything

[main wagon]

Shistol has a horrific reload

Shotguns better

[tropic crag]

those two times can save the run more than do nothing so i'm not sure why you're laughing

[main wagon]

At least if you're not going to hit a 1 shot breakpoint you don't have to spend the next 3 business days loading the thing

[tropic crag]

we were talking about not having to chase things, the shotpistol is one of the best long range weapons on the arby for a melee build

since it snipes so well

[main wagon]

Take your nerd goggles off for a minute and recognize that other weapons are viable

This energy is weird

[tropic crag]

i was responding to you saying you didn't want to chase people, i gave one option, i never said something was viable... you are the one who literally said "shotpistol sucks shotguns are better" when i simply said you could use the shotpistol lol

like bro i was just saying the shotpistol snipes

i thought you were saying you didn't want to chase people in regards to dogs and not having a dog

if i misunderstood i apologize

[main wagon]

You're the one that got on your soapbox to "UHM ACKCHUALLY" my joke about pings and then shat on my weapon choice by recommending me to use one of Arby's most underperforming weapons

But s'all gucci, I did get a lil defensive

[tropic crag]

lol brother i'm autistic actually i apologize for responding to a joke literally

[main wagon]

Yeah same

Text is hard to vibe out

[tropic crag]

naw i do it in person to, makes it so i'm good at telling jokes but i tend to ruin other peoples joke lol

i don't mean to

[main wagon]

SOME PEOPLE DONT CHANGE THEIR INFLECTION WHEN THEY SAY SARCASTIC THINGS

IT REALLY GRINDS MY GEARS

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292408487797850114/1418597980050559167/skeleton_gif_me_when.gif

[dusty musk]

dang, ma favorite gun is considered unmeta;
uses it anyhow

[tropic crag]

[main wagon]

But "ragebaiting" is in so it's uh, extra difficult atm

[main wagon]

I loved the thought of the shotpistol when they first released Arby. But god I just cant ever walk away feeling satisfied using it

I think I ruined myself by using TW reload speed shotgun first, then gravitating towards EO once I realized TW was kinda bootycheeks

[tender marten]

aurafarming with the shotpistol means whipping it out to block an overhead before beating the shit out of the guy who dared

[tropic crag]

honestly i like the shotpistol because it gives me what i want the revolver to give me but with a more tolerable reload

[main wagon]

See I am a slut for the shmield

[dusty musk]

eh, think thats a personal prefrence thing tbh, i just like useing falter with it and watching the chunky units fall on they asses.

[main wagon]

It does disgustingly good boss damage

[dusty musk]

ye.

[main wagon]

I just find that more often than not I can let my entire team die and solo a boss

I just really need specific targets to die when I point at them

Gunners/Snipers/Bombers

[tropic crag]

i've been meleeing ALOT more bursters recently on accident, i think its a scum thing where i get too into attacking

[main wagon]

If my teammates drop the ball on special sniping, I personally need to be able to pick that up rather than just being like "aw man why didnt you guys deal with it I was holding horde as shieldgryn"

Shieldgryn is literally Dante's 5th Circle of Hell for me because I just feel so neutered

[dusty musk]

it do feel good to kill a boss like that, but at same time, maybe wait and see if ya team dies on their own through no fault of yours to do that?
(Am jokeing btw.)

[tropic crag]

lol shieldgryn can slowly bash his way over to the specials

[main wagon]

Just got a new buddy into Darktide and when he hit a burster I was telling him "Yeah sometimes I just fully charge a melee and smack the shit out of them"

He asks, "Is staggering them with a fully charged melee better than shoving them?"

I go, "Absolutely tf not they'll explode every time. I'm just an idiot on autopilot"

[main wagon]

The 3 trappers aiming through the entire horde:

[tropic crag]

the best is when you line up a shot, and a burster "get down mr president" your target and is close enough to blow you up

[main wagon]

I had a poxwalker "get down mr president" when I shot a rocket at a group of crushers

[tropic crag]

i've blown up a few pyskers throwing oggy rocks at things only to hit a burster instead

[main wagon]

[worn yoke]

do you guys avoid nimble or do you guys like nimble :o

[main wagon]

I do love how in DT most people don't react to blowing up barrels or bursters near a teammate...UNLESS

[dusty musk]

have had that happen often with the new event alot.

[main wagon]

The teammate goes "man"

The guilty party usually always goes "yeah mb"

As soon as you get called out it's just like "Yeeeeeeeeeah I already felt guilty about that but now that you've said something..."

[final temple]

Oh no. I will absolutely blame the victim.

[worn yoke]

going around a corner to heavy melee a gunner and i had a poxburster dive through the gunner while i let go of my heavy and i got sent to the moon 😭

[main wagon]

I share my stims as non-scum to make up for being a goofball lol

[amber sundial]

my favorite is getting barreled or burster shot next to me and just saying thanks!

[limber cradle]

Love nimble

Bringing nimble every single build

Nimble+Jittery my goats

[worn yoke]

me too!!!!

[tropic crag]

i usually hit the team with a "man i'm so dumb" if i manage to kill or down myself hitting a burster and its only me

[main wagon]

My buddy asked "What's the counter for when bursters jump around corners?"

I just told him "Don't fight around corners, much easier said than done" lmao

[limber cradle]

I'm here to dodge max

[zenith fern]

then sent flying like 30m above sky because you weight like a feather

[worn yoke]

i was looking at the ranged build in the pins and i was considering removing jittery and slippery customer for nimble and extra pouches

[amber sundial]

Weeeee!

[tropic crag]

sometimes you can melee the burster around a corner through the wall and not take damage but like... its a gamble every time from what i can tell

[worn yoke]

LOL so true tho

uohh im orange

[zenith fern]

or be me when playing scum like this everytime

[limber cradle]

I don't run slippery but I do run jittery and nimble on desp

Personally

[amber sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/ness-little-mac-super-smash-flash-ultimate-fighting-video-game-gif-17582098

[tropic crag]

thats a real "i'm calling osha" moment

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/congratulations-evangelion-gif-19976737

No longer grey role!

[worn yoke]

i might have to play around with that but having more rockets or chem grenades is always great dopamine for my brain

[limber cradle]

I don't path over there on desp tbh, I would love to but idk where to find the points for it

[zenith fern]

Mucker wanted to get that flying bulwark

[brittle sierra]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07a1191-d386-4a2b-8511-26c27b84718e/professional-vicodin-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[tropic crag]

honestly i think with nimble and tis but a scratch you don't need anything else in that area

like its all bonus thats whatever but super not needed if you want the nodes elsewhere

[worn yoke]

i wanna show off my build talent tree but its so damn long smh

[astral canyon]

Death is

[brittle sierra]

Use the site I posted

[worn yoke]

aye aye capn

there ya go something like this

stim would be this

[brittle sierra]

Why do you have 2 nodes on the bottom right?

Wait is this a needle build?

[worn yoke]

oh i just really like having more blitzes

[brittle sierra]

Take flash grenades then

[worn yoke]

ranged build with stuff like auto pistols or iag as an example

[tropic crag]

i don't really use desp builds but i think personally i'd move some of the nodes up top down lower but maybe i'm actually dumb lol

[brittle sierra]

I generally don't like Desperado

Because you have no answer to crushers

I've tried to do a Desperado needle build

But unfortunately due to needlers having no cleave it's difficult to pull off without reloading every 2 seconds

[tropic crag]

melee and hyper crit tbh, or tox nades or rocket launcher

[limber cradle]

Tbh this is why rocket is growing on me for desp

[brittle sierra]

And speed loader doesn't work on needler

[limber cradle]

It solves the one issue desp has

Also iirc rocket benefits from ranged perks?

[worn yoke]

oh some of that is to also have survival on melee

[tropic crag]

they wouldn't need to, they just one shot everything lol

[brittle sierra]

True but I don't like having to use a blitz that is extremely useful into bosses against crushers that are pretty common

[zenith fern]

I love that one match I was loading in, I join and was in middle of a horde and chaos spawn and immedialtely pulled out my RPG and did killed in one go

[limber cradle]

I agree but uh, greed lmfao. Every nade spawn is now mine.

[tropic crag]

yeah i think its personally overkill... its def not going to be bad since like... every scum node is good lol, i just think so many up top is overkill but if you're enjoying the build and its working then honestly keep it since it would be preference at that point

[brittle sierra]

I also think grenades that have to be picked up in general are pretty risky

Especially if multiple people need them

[limber cradle]

Look I agree with you

[zenith fern]

Learn to economize your rockets smh

[limber cradle]

But rocket does solve a lot of desps issues with armor

[lapis raft]

unless you have multiple scums in match everyone else can go fuck themselves with their nades just take all of them :d

[worn yoke]

true true i could probably do without sticky hands to be fair

[limber cradle]

Me to the singular poxwalker at the beginning of a level cause it brings me great amusement

[lapis raft]

no other class has better nades than you so they shouldnt be sad that they dont get nades

[zenith fern]

krak vets and scum RPGs having same braincell

[lapis raft]

other than vet but vet has its regen

[tropic crag]

honestly even tox blackout nades can solve it if you commit two nades to a group because it will soften them up enough for you to like shiv them or whatever

[zenith fern]

Wasting their entire blitzes in a single or four enemies

when they could melee them

[amber sundial]

It’s not their fault the enemies walked out of the path of their rockets!

[lapis raft]

vets randomly throwing krak at single crusher when it has 20 stacks of toxin on them gg

[limber cradle]

Idk how to make the points to path over there on a desp build tbh

[zenith fern]

videogame won

[tropic crag]

lol honestly totally fair, i'm sure you can do it but also scum builds are an exercise in "i want both of these nodes and i have zero points"

[brittle sierra]

And kraks replenish 😔

[limber cradle]

Just 5 extra points man

Just give me

5 extra points

[dim moth]

weird I don't like wasting rockets into bosses that I can kill through other methods anyways when I could use them to trivialize crusher packs

[final temple]

just six more point sah

[amber sundial]

I’ll loan you 5 talent points, just give me your havoc 40 crate this week fr

[brittle sierra]

When you have bosses stacked with a bunch of other shit I like using it to CC the boss

[tropic crag]

when i do run rockets i use them when the situation is starting to slide out of control and there are a number of high value targets for it

[worn yoke]

would blessed stimms work well on a ranged build? since i do like playing havoc and corruption is stinky

[limber cradle]

Brother you can have my havoc crates from now till the end of time

I don't need em

[brittle sierra]

I have a crate build that I think is "meta" 😈

Trust

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a077d553-91e8-46ba-98db-89673f567985/porfessional-fent-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[worn yoke]

booby trap 👀

[sonic pumice]

The brother of the potion seller that went for the more lucrative path

[lapis raft]

booby trap on 75s stimm is unprecedented levels of copium :d

that thing barely doesnt suck on 1p stimms

and even then it kinda does

[brittle sierra]

On average the real world cooldown is about 20-30 seconds

[worn yoke]

okay im pretty pleased with this will take this into havoc and if i lose i will take no blame and just say its fatsharks fault

ty guys for the tips

[tropic crag]

you talking sample collector? cause yeah i usually run max cd stims and sample collector makes it like always up

[lapis raft]

30s maybe. but i can count on fingers of one hand the times where ibooby trap would catually do something useful in my games

[brittle sierra]

The reason why I have max stimms

Is because the sampler collector is percentage based

[lapis raft]

i also use 75s stimms on crate, you dont have to explain to me why someone would do it

[brittle sierra]

You will get the stimms back faster on lower stimms sure, but if you play games like havoc where you are constantly killing things, you can get it back up at around the same amount of time

To me crate is like a universal worse version of rampage

But I have to admit, the dodge stimms are pretty nice 😈

[tranquil fjord]

vulture's dodge actually doesnt work properly right now

[tropic crag]

honestly even on auric sample collector is nearly constant uptime unless someone is killing everything (but then you don't need the uptime)

[worn yoke]

https://tenor.com/view/killer-bean-dies-from-cringe-funny-gif-27168559

why does scum have so many things that dont work as intended smh

[tropic crag]

the honest to god answer is that adding netcode to any project makes the dumbest things super complicated

[brittle sierra]

I think the worst one is that kills from Hypercrit don't proc the stun grenade stacks

[worn yoke]

i wonder how big the hotfix after new year will be then

[tropic crag]

the meme answer is " " lol

[brittle sierra]

Fatshark change Dep to stimm cooldown and my life is yours!!!!

[worn yoke]

what blessings do you guys recommend on the vraks btw? i run dumdum and fire frenzy but deathspitter seems pretty good too

[brittle sierra]

Deathspitter is applied in the calculation differently

Since strength is a different stat

[mighty belfry]

I'll be real, I don't run max stimm anymore even in havoc

[brittle sierra]

So it's actually comparable to fire frenzy

[mighty belfry]

At least if it's blight

[worn yoke]

ooo i see

[tropic crag]

i don't stim enough to not run max cd, like i only use it on the rare times that i need a boost but don't have rampage or adren going

[brittle sierra]

So yeah I take deathspitter

Vraks is a monster either way though

[worn yoke]

oh for sure

i just wasnt sure how they compare to eachother

[mighty belfry]

I be putting them crates down whenever I get em

[brittle sierra]

It blows my mind that all of the YouTubers never talk about Rashad or Vraks on Scum

[mighty belfry]

Thing is I actually value having the crate being more consistent across the board for corruption immunity

[tropic crag]

yeah if i ran crates then i'd probably worry more about them, but on pure melee scum you just kind of get lost in the carnage

[worn yoke]

ive started using vraks over autopistols recently and its just really satisfying ngl both are really fun to use

[mighty belfry]

I mean you don't do that if you're running rampage tbh

[tropic crag]

yeah stims are only a time to time thing with rampage

[worn yoke]

awesome im pretty happy with my vulture build yippie

[mighty belfry]

Unless, and I have tried this. You run a micro dose stimm just to boost your rampage a lil more

[brittle sierra]

I'm wondering if I should just drop the crit rate 🤔

[mighty belfry]

Personally, I've been running the nodes before crit rate

[tropic crag]

lol i think that can be said about every weapon on the scum, i think every one of them can have at least some good things said about them

[mighty belfry]

It's fine

Crate noticeably has more uptime and is easier to stack from my experience.

[worn yoke]

i always run blessed stims on my crate build its just so handy and a lifesaver in havoc

[tropic crag]

i thought about it, i even think about running toughness branch more often as another way to refill my toughness as an absolute "i've messed up so much i'm gonna die" button

like short cd toughness branch

[worn yoke]

i had the full toughness branch and full cd branch when trying to go for the toughness stim penance and honestly its pretty good for doing support stuff imo

[tropic crag]

since i'm not using the stims much otherwise

[mighty belfry]

I've run a two node strength stimm for my rampage builds before

[tropic crag]

yeah i've used it here and there and i think people write it off a bit too much, its not the best branch but its pretty good at times

[mighty belfry]

8% strength on top of the 50% melee from rampage

[final temple]

‘I am microdosing my Wildfire’ is a term I did not expect.

[worn yoke]

for crate i think it has its niche

[mighty belfry]

Actually does mean quite a bit.

[tropic crag]

kind of a poor mans pysker bubble is the main reason i think people don't like it on crate

[worn yoke]

does finesse apply to ranged weapons as well btw when it comes to the stim?

[mighty belfry]

With how strength values calculate, its a bigger boost than most might realize.

[worn yoke]

yeah i can see that but hey if you have no pysker this is definitely better than nothing haha

[tropic crag]

yeah i stacked them once on accident and noticed it caused me to hit a break point or two but never did test it more

screw it i'm gonna test how running short cd stam stim on rampage feels as a backup button instead of a booster

[worn yoke]

genuinely curious what do people think of adrenaline on a rampage build

i like the keystone but i feel like some of the modifiers are underwhelming

[tranquil fjord]

yknow sometimes you cant tell if something is meant to be a bug or feature, such as hyper critical not working with ranged

[worn yoke]

you would THINK it being in the ranged portion of the tree it would

[tranquil fjord]

right above the ranged keystone with crit chance

[tropic crag]

earnestly its super super strong, they are just really good passive bonuses that turn on for you just playing the game

[worn yoke]

which of the modifiers would you vouch for the most?

[final temple]

Adrenaline needs more oomph. and the nodes need more flavour.

[tropic crag]

because its to help ranged builds still have good melee by putting a really good melee node that doesn't synergise with other melee nodes in the ranged nodes

[astral canyon]

20s duration, stacks on killing blow, toughness regen while active

20s duration can prob be dropped if youre on difficulties with high enough enemy density

[tropic crag]

basically what buff said but also with some weapons stacks on hit is better and i take the "stacks last longer" node over a killing node, but killing nodes are good

naw the 20 secs is just more uptime so i think its good to take always

cause its like getting 2 procs in a row with zero downtime

[tranquil fjord]

the confusion surrounding their intent with the talent is perhaps because of their poor wording and terminology

why? it says critical strikes

[astral canyon]

Stacks on kill is really good because it takes just 2 gunner kills to trigger it

[tropic crag]

if someone handed you a gun and said "strike jim with this gun" what action would you do?

[astral canyon]

Its only really an issue when you have a monstrosity aggroed on you

[tranquil fjord]

if you handed jim a gun and then gave him a keystone that said "ranged critical strikes", then he would believe that strikes could be ranged

[limber cradle]

I'd ask why they ask me to enact violence on jim

[worn yoke]

i see i see should make a proper adrenaline build tomorrow and have some fun with it

[astral canyon]

Why not

[limber cradle]

Cause as much as I enjoy violence it makes me feel bad if the person doesn't deserve it.

[astral canyon]

Itd be funny tho

[final temple]

Innocence proves nothing.

[tropic crag]

my point is that when FS says "strike" it means "to hit" as in melee... they could be more clear and use more cohesive keywords but at the very least i read that one as melee only

[astral canyon]

It is melee only btw

[worn yoke]

what did jim do wingnut

[tranquil fjord]

it doesnt seem like that when right next to the keystone

[astral canyon]

Hypercritical only procs on melee hits

[odd jetty]

Braced or IAG for hive?

[limber cradle]

You don't have to believe anyone here but hypercrit only works on melee

[worn yoke]

both work but iag on top

[tropic crag]

when it comes to these trees i read the words on the node rather then thinking that the words on the nodes next to them inform the node i am reading

outside of when they are the same color like keystones and blitzes and stuff

[limber cradle]

Personal preference tbh

[tranquil fjord]

i know but it was simply a major source of disappointment when i had already played with the mediocre dual stubbers

[odd jetty]

ty

[limber cradle]

Life is often disappointing.

[lapis raft]

fatshark is just really terrible at writing descriptions

[tranquil fjord]

and thought they would magically become better with hypercrit

[lapis raft]

everything has 0 consistency

[worn yoke]

if everything is inconsistent wouldnt it start becoming consistent

[lapis raft]

consistently bad yes :d

[worn yoke]

:d

[marsh plover]

Any critques?

[brittle sierra]

Yes I don't think vulture is worth without Desperado

[marsh plover]

I been doing consistently amazing dmg

[brittle sierra]

That's fine but I can run greys into my Aurics and do crazy damage too

The point of critique is to help push things to be better

Not good enough

[obsidian crown]

Vulture knockback is shit

[worn yoke]

^

[tropic crag]

they could do way better with unifiying things for clarity and making better use of keywords instead of half keywords half making up new words every node

[worn yoke]

in my attempts at using it it has genuinely done nothing for me

[brittle sierra]

Yeah knock back has too low of radius to take regardless of Desperado

[marsh plover]

Now you mention it, i dont think i have have ever see it knock something over

[obsidian crown]

Because it’s 3m

[marsh plover]

Omg

[final temple]

vulture’s could be interesting if it stacked higher. as it stands, chem dep overtakes it for the same investment.

[brittle sierra]

You also are not taking one of the best talents in the entire tree

Nimble

[obsidian crown]

I don’t take it either

[final temple]

for ranged, slippery has comparable value.

[obsidian crown]

Not gonna develop bad habits with it

[marsh plover]

I like giving my team's survival between vulture and the toughness stim pack

[marsh plover]

I heard nimble is bugged

[dim moth]

yeah people were just wrong about it

[brittle sierra]

No it's intentional

[dim moth]

fatshark recently overcompensated for peoples flawed perception of what the ability did

so now everybody (not ogryn) is immune to gunfire until it gets patched the instant holiday season ends

[tropic crag]

the same confusion happened in vt2 i swear... years back

[tropic crag]

its so funny right now

[brittle sierra]

But like, 25% dodge distance is huge anyways

Even if you completely ignore the second half of the ability

[limber cradle]

Wwyd if it stays

[tropic crag]

yeah the dodge distance is honestly the biggest part of it for me and always was

[dim moth]

weep

[tropic crag]

its a little dumb atm so it def won't lol

[marsh plover]

I find the distance most of the time on hivescum isnt going to help me, i usually could've played better rather thinking i doe because i had less dodge distance

[obsidian crown]

Just bad habits for me tbh so I don’t take it

[odd jetty]

How does one fix error 9999

[final temple]

add one more.

[tropic crag]

if you're too vt2 move tech coded it lets you fly around fights

[brittle sierra]

The way it works is that dodge "duration" has essentially become a flat amount that overlaps the dodge timer

So there is no longer that "vulnerable" period you have for a split second before you can dodge again anymore

[tropic crag]

you use it to drag hitboxes and line up your next hit

[tropic crag]

oggy still struggle to stay invincible

[dim moth]

https://imgur.com/a/zPTiYHh zoomies

[limber cradle]

Guys I didn't ask how it worked or say it was gonna stay

Its a dumb joke

[brittle sierra]

Being able to move just as quickly as if you were running without taking any damage is extremely powerful

[final temple]

why would you do that to us?!

[brittle sierra]

😔

[limber cradle]

I'll provide a full explanation of the mechanic next time to diffuse any confusions before I ask wwyd if it stays lmao

[final temple]

thank you.

[marsh plover]

Vulture immunity

[final temple]

I can rest easier now.

[worn yoke]

nimble lets me fly when i dodge off ledges so its automatically a must have

[brittle sierra]

Then why do you need slippery customer?

[limber cradle]

Nimble dodge when you hit a bit of wonky terrain just right and soar into the air

[flint granite]

It's fucking addicting plus the times it's like legit useful for looping a horde or something rules

[worn yoke]

jumps up in joy while wearing a i love movement shirt

[marsh plover]

Because i rather that over the over talents, sometimes it can help me in sticky situations

[brittle sierra]

But you made the same argument for Vulture on Nimble

Why is Slippery better than nimble?

[worn yoke]

also i MAY or may have not accidentally dodged too far because of it and taken fall damage

my silly teammates running while i climb every crate so i can dodge off of them

[marsh plover]

As i said, if i died because i didnt had nimble i usually could've played better better because i still have the ability to dodge where i cant slide pass melee's normally if it comes up.

[flint granite]

Breaking your knees is the funniest part

[marsh plover]

What is base kit coherency range?

[rancid coral]

tbh it works for what you need it to do

it only doesn't work on AoE stuff

[woeful hill]

8m

and it works like a daisy chain

[marsh plover]

As in your coherency is increased by other teams linked in coherency?

[woeful hill]

you count for coherency if the person you are in coherency with are in range of someone else outside of your range

if that makes sense

[marsh plover]

I gotcha

That's good to know

[woeful hill]

"Generally, coherency works like a daisy chain[i.imgur.com]that connects the players; a player does not need to be in coherency with all others at once, just with one that might be in coherency with others."

from

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3586590987&searchtext=scum\

Kuli scum guide

[zealous ravine]

man hive scum is so awesome i wish fent was real

[thorny ginkgo]

i play my hivescum like it’s cod

[marsh plover]

Is rending armour pen or just a dmg multiplier?

[zealous ravine]

armor pen

[worn yoke]

i have wonderful news

[zealous ravine]

😨 ?

[woeful hill]

@marsh plover

CTRL + F

look at rending

[hollow hill]

Hey lads anyone come up with a decent support build for scum yet? I keep trying diffrent things and ask team mates if it makes a difference but no one seems overly impressed, been trying to boost everyone's melee

[woeful hill]

support in Darktide is finicky

9/10 time the best "support" is killing the enemies faster

[hollow hill]

Tell me about it mate lol

[woeful hill]

and most support talents are hard to proc or get value

the best way to help a team if to kill faster, but if you really wanted to buff your team more. Full cdr on stimm supply with a max stim should be it

[hollow hill]

I wanna drop a stimm pack and watch zelly and spark head turn into blenders

Sorry mate im old cdr means nothing to me lol

[woeful hill]

Cooldown Reduction

[hollow hill]

Ah yep cool cheers

[dim moth]

I "support" my team with my 20% strength/20% attack speed crates that I use for my own selfish purposes

[woeful hill]

yes

[dim moth]

And if they so happen to touch it that's good for them

[hollow hill]

Yea thats what I was running and I was asking the melee focused classes if it was helping and no one gave any decent feedback!!!

[tropic crag]

cc is really the only reliable support, like being able to instantly help someone some distance away is usually the most impactful thing outside of just killing the dangerous thing

[final temple]

even just 20% str/15%crit is an awesome support.

they might not realize it because it’s not something they have consciously in their kit

but that amount of power for the whole team IS noticeable

[brittle sierra]

one thing I have been trying to figure out is if jittery is actually worth the point or not 😔

[final temple]

personally I say no. I can see the difference. I don’t think it’s needed.

[spiral horizon]

I've been playing without nimble and jittery just because I fear getting used to them and then getting pasted as soon as I swap off lmao

I just throw those points into more dps

[hollow hill]

I really don't think fat shark hit the mark with this class, I think the point is for stimms to be dropped and everyone is super juiced and just starts wailing on the bad guys, the reality is no one seems to give a fuck about a stimm boost being dropped so I kinda feel useless and think fuck ill just go back to my flame psyker and dump shriek into everything and watch the world burn

[final temple]

if you make stimms that impactful you force scum into every team.

[zealous ravine]

idk havent felt like using crate either

i mostly just use rampage

chem side just doesnt do enough stimm stuff at all for me to care

[brittle sierra]

I see the value of it, but I am intereste din using uptime to see how much of the game I actually use it during combat?

[hollow hill]

Whats wrong with that? Psyker is pretty much the same in there own way?

[hollow hill]

Which is fucked because its meant to be there whole deal!

[zealous ravine]

yeah i wanna do more drugs....

[final temple]

no. bubble is not more impactful. neither is scavenger. visible, yeah. sure. but giving people a substantial boost in power and/or speed and/or cdr is increasing dps output.

[hollow hill]

I wanna give people more drugs!! And have them like it!!

[jaunty coral]

@woeful hill when you use devil claw on hivescum in H40, do you find you dont need a cleave blessing? noticed in that one video you were using shred/rampage

[zealous ravine]

yummy drugs

[vague kayak]

i guess the whole point of hs of having super powerful highs and then weak lows, yknow like a real drug addict, it just doesn’t really work for a game like darktide when most other classes can put out insane damage consistently

[hollow hill]

Not bubble i mean the ability to cc everything in the room besides crushers, thats pretty handy watching a whole mob just melt away before the can even get close, well i reckon it is anyway

[trim wind]

there aren't really many lows

[final temple]

that is THE WORST ability psyker could bring. smite sucks. it’s an absolute waste of a teamslot

[hollow hill]

I think your onto something there mate

Why?

[zealous ravine]

smite sadly does not suck

i mean it shouldnt exist in its current state imo

[final temple]

because all you do is slow down kill speed at the expense of a false sense of security. most teams do not need this.

[vague kayak]

there are a lot of drawbacks to the keystones and abilities that other classes don’t have at all

[zealous ravine]

yeahhh but pausing the game is just like way too silly

[final temple]

and most psykers have not the sense to use it sparingly as an oh shit.

[trim wind]

are there?

desperado vulture is just m1 + w

[vague kayak]

well yea rampage literally eats your stamina for no reason

[zealous ravine]

not that i notice that ever

[trim wind]

rampage stamina doesn't really matter that much for the most part

most you can say is stimm supply and chem dependancy don't have the best synergy

[novel oracle]

And by that you mean a small debuff at the end of 1 strong and long lasting ability

[dim moth]

didn't reginald just put out a video disproving them having "weak lows"

[final temple]

scum has no weak lows.

[dim moth]

hive scum's downtime damage is average compared to the absolute meta builds for other classes

[novel oracle]

Scums lows feel really bad compared to their highs

[zealous ravine]

dont say that what if they buff scriers gaze

[novel oracle]

10 million more scriers buffs inbound

[dim moth]

because their highs are fucking STUPID

[hollow hill]

The whole smite argument again....... smite fuckin rocks although iv never really bothered with it, a smite psyker and a flame psyker working together...... rest of the group mite as well kick back and relax

[novel oracle]

Thats
Kinda the problem

[zealous ravine]

idk pausing the game is uh like not darktide

[hollow hill]

Why though?

[novel oracle]

Because people open the game to play it

They cannot play it when that happens

There is no game left for them to play

Why even leave the psykanium at that point

Its the same thing

[zealous ravine]

inferno psyker is also silly

[final temple]

you waste a whole slot for something you do not need. a flame psyker by itself already does good damage, can put down a bubble that negates most of what smite supposedly protects from AND is free to interact. smite sucks.

[zealous ravine]

i dont think smite sucks meta wise it just sucks design wise

[novel oracle]

Smite is good in all of the wrong ways

[zealous ravine]

basically

[novel oracle]

It is a 0 cost infinite cc tool that ALSO can be build to do damage to a mass amount of targets over time

There is no risk
There is no thought
There is no gameplay
It just is all of those things for free

[zealous ravine]

i probably used assail for like 90% of my time on psyker lmao

[hollow hill]

Lol sorry I kinda got us off topic , guys we are whinging about scum not spark head!! Lol

[zealous ravine]

theres always time to complain about psyker

[novel oracle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1272804331497979935/1450700850132418651/Kill_All_Smykers.gif

[zealous ravine]

lmfao

[final temple]

scum needs more interesting keystones. vulture and adrenaline need more

[zealous ravine]

chem dep needs the most imo

[novel oracle]

Scum is functionally incomplete

[hollow hill]

Oh come on dont pick on my main boy!!

[zealous ravine]

i main psyker too

[hollow hill]

Yes!!! Thats it mate you hit it on the head!!

[final temple]

I mained psyker all the way back at PC launch. different times.

[zealous ravine]

god it was pain back then

i played illisi melee builds LOL

[novel oracle]

Psyker is literally all of the mechanics that functionally break the balance of the game
They're only missing stealth

[zealous ravine]

well i guess i played obscurus builds at launch illisi wasnt there quite yet

[novel oracle]

Yeah I know
I was there for its entire development

[zealous ravine]

it defo feels kinda rushed

[dim moth]

scrier's gaze stealth when

[zealous ravine]

dont give them ideas

[novel oracle]

Tomorrow

[hollow hill]

I picked psyker as my main toon when I first started playing this game too, had know idea what I was getting myself into! Fuck it was a tough slog to get decent at, im a console boy too so yea it was a tough gig

[zealous ravine]

i've somehow managed to play melee psyker ever since beta

[hollow hill]

Hey? You work for FS or something?

[neon fern]

unpaid labor bahahah

[candid flint]

closed beta

[candid flint]

hey we get paid kinda'

[neon fern]

naw

[candid flint]

we get stimmy checks

[neon fern]

aquilas isn't worth anything in today's economy

[hollow hill]

Fuck your a weapon! I started melee and then found flame staff and never really went back

[zealous ravine]

naww i dont like flame staff

[novel oracle]

Melee psyker was cool until they took the feedback of "psyker needs more reliable non warp toughness gen" to the extreme and also gave him even more damage so now hes literally a walking indestructible nuclear bomb

[zealous ravine]

idk maybe that can be fixed with a few more scriers gaze buffs

[hollow hill]

And I love that lol

[novel oracle]

But that should be zealots thing

[zealous ravine]

i think on melee psy side i'd start with nerfing that melee tgh node to a bit less then nerfing scriers to remove that 50% quell

[novel oracle]

Psyker should be a little better in terms of damage there but not consistently rivaling or surpassing their survivability at the same time

[frigid sluice]

Does psyker even have any weaknesses rn I tried melee psyker recently and it feels stronger than zealot

[neon fern]

psyker is the strongest class in the game

so no

[candid flint]

psyker does have weakness

it attracts smykers

[zealous ravine]

i dont even know if nerfing psy is on the table

[neon fern]

yeah if u suck

[zealous ravine]

DS has been broky for so long

[hollow hill]

I loved my spark head but must admit I struggled to stay alive unstill I really learnt the ins and outs of the class, im better on my sparky then any other class buy far as my situational awareness is better where as if im on my vet or zelly ill be like naa I dont need to dodge tha...... oh fuck im dead lol

[novel oracle]

Psykers fatal weakness is that they mysteriously are denied when they apply to my h40 lobbies
No idea how

[neon fern]

queerious

[zealous ravine]

why so sealious

[frigid sluice]

I thought psykers were the most appealing havoc class since they had shield to counter the gunners

[neon fern]

psyker will make sure u don't get to play

[hollow hill]

Why no love H40 for old sparky?

[zealous ravine]

do i see a frog oh my god is that a frog

brb

[rancid coral]

This is what peak hud looks like (I won't accept people saying it's not peak)

[novel oracle]

Playtester
A fair amount of the time they actually use our ideas for stuff (like lone wolf, new ewew, and the basic idea of concussive came from me)
They can be pretty receptive to feedback, and sometimes not (looking at you, chem dep completely missing the point of what we wanted it to be)

[rancid coral]

[neon fern]

kind of config i used to run on tf2 back in my prime

[rancid coral]

LOL

[neon fern]

the dogshit special

800 fps but at what cost...

[frigid sluice]

I thought the flamer backpack was part of the hud for a moment

[rancid coral]

(I did allign the ability timer and thing)

(I realized that later)

[rancid coral]

the 2 fucking tubes on my hud for no reason other than green

[frigid sluice]

It did fit in pretty well

[novel oracle]

Its not bad enough
Surely theres more mods that provide no tangible benefit you can fit in there
It needs to look like a jet fighter hud before you can properly play

[rancid coral]

exactly

[neon fern]

no shade but there was someone who posted a screenshot of their game here recently

[amber sundial]

Number of different colors on screen counter mod when

[hollow hill]

So im not just a Crazy whinging pain in the arse? Chem dep was meant to be a proper support class?

[neon fern]

and they had a literal pyramid as their hud

[frigid sluice]

5% opacity of a random video covering the entire screen

[rancid coral]

Actually @novel oracle There is more, 2 more ability rows next to the stamina bar but I didn't showcase them

on the right is for weapon and important talents

[frigid sluice]

Bonus points if the video is darktide gameplay

[rancid coral]

and on the left is for CDR / grenade regen

[amber sundial]

Audio of the video is still active too

[rancid coral]

Hold on I need to show a screenshot of how the customhud thing looks LOL

[frigid sluice]

Grendel’s schizophrenics

[rancid coral]

the entirety of the shrek movie

that restarts after a killed enemy

[amber sundial]

But gets 1% faster

[novel oracle]

No chem dep was meant to lean into stims
Instead of ability cdr, our proposal was stim cdr, so youd be chaining stims really often and leaning into them hard
The subnodes would be a big buff per stack from the chem effects, but also a noticeable nerf per stack due to your dependency on them
So you could pick your poison on the subnodes, maybe you got a lot of crit chance and crit damage from a node, but you might have lower stam regen, lower toughness gen, or increased damage taken

[frigid sluice]

I was kinda hoping the stims would have some sort of negative side effect

[novel oracle]

Theres a lot that could be done there

[zealous ravine]

i swear to god

this heckin frog went behind a closet (i put it outside)

[novel oracle]

And itd be fun to have a literal stimzerker playstyle

Itd also line up nicely with the crate too cuz of that crate refresh node

[zealous ravine]

this is what i want

[amber sundial]

Give us ror2 tonic and boom entire stim issue fixed

[novel oracle]

Which already clashes with crate and chem dep rn cuz chem dep is ability cdr but your stim is the important part cuz thats most of the effects for it

[hollow hill]

@novel oracle so what happend? Why did it go to shit?

[novel oracle]

Currently chem dep is just used for more crit and shorter ability downtime
And thats super fucking lame

[rancid coral]

BEHOLD

[novel oracle]

Thats how it was implemented
And it never changed

[woeful hill]

dont need cleave blessing when I spent 1 poiint on a talenty

[amber sundial]

Add the one of the fnaf maps top left and bottom right

[novel oracle]

Plus cleave talent with strength is big value

[neon fern]

epstein files themed HUD

[zealous ravine]

scp article

[zealous ravine]

REAL

[hollow hill]

I want the scum to be wanted in a match, like the zelly and oggy and just waiting for that stimm pack to hit the ground so they can fuck everything up, i thought thats what stimm supply was meant to be, ahh well

[rancid coral]

THIS IS WHAT PEAK HUD LOOKS LIKE!!!

[novel oracle]

I mean its kinda like that now
The stim just probably needs more work and so does the right side of the tree (like have you fucking seen how WIP that keystone area looks like wtf)
Its pretty effective, but just not fun to play
But thats not a scum thing, that kinda happens to any dedicated support build in dt

[zealous ravine]

stimm upgrades r so lame rn

[hollow hill]

Oh well guess I'll put scum back on the shelf for now, shame really

[novel oracle]

I mean melee scum is pretty fun, he can basically remove the weaknesses of certain weapons

And ranged scum with full auto weapons is so unbelievably strong

[rancid coral]

but scum is weak...

that's not possible...

[keen bluff]

No ammo constraints fun

[rancid coral]

yeah but pickpocket does need a nerf tho xdd

[zealous ravine]

but youtube guy told me ranged build was weeeaaaak

[candid flint]

buff it

[keen bluff]

It’s super weak I’m having a lot of trouble getting this vigilant to work

Therefore bad

[zealous ravine]

i have no idea how vigilant is doing nowadays

[novel oracle]

When i dont take the good talents
Its not good

What da freek

[zealous ravine]

did you try spinning the gun around

[keen bluff]

I don’t think vigilant has much of a chance on scum

[novel oracle]

Scum isnt really built for it

[keen bluff]

Hipfire revolver may not be the best when theres a lot of threats but it’s really fun

[hollow hill]

I really wanna like him, I'll keep crackin on and see how I go

[zealous ravine]

hipfire revolver is fun with inf ammo

doubt its like actually good tho

[keen bluff]

It feels badass but you could do the same thing better but with less cool reloading action with needle

[novel oracle]

Mortis trials
Crit archetype
Run n gun hand cannon

[keen bluff]

Double barrel also fun also not very good compared to needle

[rancid coral]

well that's cuz needle is OP

[dim moth]

I don't really think so

Pickpocket is not the major factor in gun scum being too strong

[rancid coral]

It kinda is

[dim moth]

It's just there

[rancid coral]

the fact that gunscum can just shoot eternally without needing to use melee is an issue

pickpocket should only trigger from melee kills

[dim moth]

veteran can do the same thing with shock trooper recon lasgun

[icy scaffold]

Psyker does the same with their unlimited flamethrower

[rancid coral]

yeah now compare the efficiency between recon lasgun shocktrooper and infantry lasgun vraks pickpocket

it's a really bad comparison from your end xdd

Pickpocket is better than shocktrooper and survivalist combined

[main wagon]

I think these discussions are always "this cheese is better cheese" and not "all these varieties of cheese feel like shit to play alongside"

[dim moth]

well...shock trooper is infinite ammo that doesn't have to reload

so

[rancid coral]

Having and not having pickpocket when using guns is night and day

[zealous ravine]

inferno staff is awesome if you wanna watch some markplier content on the side and some like subway surfers

[dim moth]

Veteran can definitely just shoot all game with las weapons just like scum can

Or well like scum can with other guns

[rancid coral]

Right

[dim moth]

but Veteran has better ranged damage output

[rancid coral]

but the efficiency is way lower

[zealous ravine]

i kinda want to actually watch markplier while playing inferno staff

that sounds funny

[rancid coral]

nah crazy statement

[main wagon]

I don't care if it's a recon las veteran, a DAP gunscum, or a purg staff psyker.

I know that in that game I'm going to have like half of the things I try to melee are going to die before I get there

[dim moth]

Objectively true statement

Scum has infinite ammo and better uptime on shooting

Veteran has like triple the gun damage

Assuming both are fully invested into gun

Scum's gun damage is not even close

[rancid coral]

idk I've done 2 mill H40 games with gunscum

in which I just shot eternally

[icy scaffold]

Not even adding to the fact that Shout and Kraks are in Vet’s kit

[rancid coral]

To be fair I didn't say scum made vet useless tho?

I just said that pickpocket is OP and allows scum to shoot better than vet xdd

[dim moth]

It really doesn't

Veteran has shock trooper right there

The literal only reason Veteran is not shooting as often is because their talent tree encourages hybrid play, and they lack easy access to guns with cleave

[rancid coral]

Recon lasgun doesn't deal close to the damage of scum IAG can do?

[dim moth]

Your only real choice for a forever shooting gun that has cleave is the Mk XIV recon lasgun

Which is the bad one

[mighty belfry]

Vet and scum shouldn't be compared to be honest.

They're both different kinds of shooty classes.

[rancid coral]

yes

[icy scaffold]

I’d totally be down for deleting the auto dodging tho

[rancid coral]

but I think Hive Scum having infinite ammo at 0 risk

is bad design

at least vet is forced to use a lasgun

[mighty belfry]

That is also completely true.

[dim moth]

Do you want me to test this with a havoc 40 pogyrn, or just auric

[mighty belfry]

#1 pickpocket hater

[rancid coral]

I'm gonna go IAG h40 rn

[brittle sierra]

Vet is still the best specialist killer in the game

Scum to me feels like a hybrid specialist and boss killer

Arby is the hybrid elite and specialist killer

[rancid coral]

on scum

[dim moth]

Yeah because having to use the Laspistol, Recon, or Helbore is such a tall ask really

[rancid coral]

Well let's pray I don't crash on this game

so I can share scoreboard once it's over

[mighty belfry]

It does kinda matter tbf

Scum can just use anything.

[icy scaffold]

Havoc, since no one cares what people do on Auric

[brittle sierra]

imagine scum with recon

[icy scaffold]

My favorite gun on my favorite class would be peak

[mighty belfry]

The thing with scum however is generally that. Not as much actual damage output and you're relegated to staying upclose and personal for the most benefit

[icy scaffold]

Give Ogryn Pickpocket for Gunlugger too.

[mighty belfry]

Where as, vet can be a proper sniper.

But when pickpocket and vulture's dodge are in the mix, those contingencies suddenly barely matter for scum

[brittle sierra]

ok new campaign, tell me who to play

[icy scaffold]

Yea, nuke vulture’s dodge

[icy scaffold]

Dwarves because gunpowder and artillery go brrrrt

[brittle sierra]

which dwarves?

chaos has much more gunpowerder

😈

[icy scaffold]

Whichever has more dakka

[mighty belfry]

Nuke vultures dodge, give pickpocket an internal cooldown, and suddenly, scum while still hella strong is at least a lot more leveled out.

[brittle sierra]

regular dwarves have one of the best early game units in the game so I kinda don't want this to be a cake

[mighty belfry]

Cuz gun scum is just stupid right now

[icy scaffold]

Pickpocket won’t even need an internal cooldown if you nuke both auto dodges. most of them will be dead all the time

[mighty belfry]

Infinite ammo is still a problem honestly.

[icy scaffold]

Unless they decide to reign Psyker in, I don’t see it tbh

[mighty belfry]

See my thought is, both are really overpowered.

[icy scaffold]

One much more than the other.

[mighty belfry]

Psyker seriously needs a balance check across the board.

The only people who actually think psyker is balanced.

Are psyker mains.

[icy scaffold]

I only play shooty. So I play Psyker, Scum, and recon las vet

[mighty belfry]

And those people are actually just insane.

[icy scaffold]

Melee is for nerds

#givegunluggerpickpockettoo

[zealous ravine]

well not always

[mighty belfry]

The ones who tout that they are

[woeful trellis]

honestly i think the only necessary change is lowered tox chem ADM vs carapace/unyielding, because the outlier is pickpocket needler being able to kill carapace fast, with extreme safety/from extreme distance and needing very little investment

[icy scaffold]

My favorite bit is people placing scum above Psyker

[zealous ravine]

that class so goofy and i main it

[mighty belfry]

Are usually psykers

[versed spruce]

Wood elf Twins

[mighty belfry]

There are psykers that are self aware

[versed spruce]

They're the only cool wood elves

[zealous ravine]

not that i even like staves

[icy scaffold]

I want a stave that has a full auto mode

Give me funny machine gun staff

[brittle sierra]

who tf is this Brit?

[versed spruce]

average snotling gobbo

[mighty belfry]

Nah, pickpocket itself is also an inherent issue for several other ranged weapons

Desperado vraks

Is literally just playing Call of Duty in Darktide and somehow doing more damage than even psyker

[woeful trellis]

it's harder to trivialize rotten armor with desperado vraks though

[icy scaffold]

Switch out IAG’s for recon las to balance scum

[dim moth]

SCUM

[mighty belfry]

That's why you have two of the best blitzes in the game for rotten armor LMAO

[dim moth]

recon lasgun vet

IAG vet

[woeful trellis]

if tox chem ADM were decreased vs carapace, scum would only have one of the best blitzes in the game for rotten armor!

[zealous ravine]

sadly none of those guns are dual stubbers

[dim moth]

oh I should probably do scum clip with a cooldown stimm instead of full damage stimm in retrospect

[mighty belfry]

I think tox chem could be adjusted but that ain't the only issue with scum for sure.

[dim moth]

since those are pretty common for desperado builds

[rancid coral]

I did say IAG scum tho 👀

[dim moth]

ye first clip

IAG scum, 75 second attack speed+crit stim

[rancid coral]

oh mb

[dim moth]

same build as first scum clip but not using stim (I.E you are using cooldown stimm for uptime)

and then chem dependency just to really get all the usual gun scum potentials out

Tried to stick to builds that I would actually run because I could get veteran's damage higher if I take stupid shit that I wouldn't ever use normally like CQKZ

Could realistically run marksman for IAG vet if you were REALLY juicing your damage

But it kills faster than max damage stimm scum even without it so a teensy bit overkill prob

I also forgot to change IAG vet to kill zone instead of shock trooper

[eager reef]

waht is scum using on iag anyway?

[versed spruce]

Why didn't they make Desperado's refresh change depending on the fire rate type of the weapon

It's not comprehensive but it would at least be something

So you know

The gunslinger gets to use the gunslinger revolver

[brittle sierra]

dumdum + deathspitter/firefrenzy

[tropic crag]

i'm pretty sure if you went back in time and offered any gunslinger a revolver or a new fully auto 40k gun they'd pick the 40k gun everytime

[eager reef]

that's what i figured

[versed spruce]

Yeah well if gunslingers had to deal with carapace existing and revolvers magically doing more damage to it, I'm sure they would at least consider it

[arctic imp]

when do we expect hive scum cosmetics to rotate?

[tropic crag]

until they heard about the needle pistol lol

[versed spruce]

Listen I'm going to pretend chem tox doesn't exist because it's someone's anime oc personified as a DoT

[zealous ravine]

revolvers are pretty anime too

[versed spruce]

hmmm my worst ADM will be against carapace at 90%

DEV BIAS

oh and my best adm

250%

[tropic crag]

i feel like needle guns are in 40k but honestly thats just the vibes i don't know for sure

[final temple]

they are. you find them in necromunda and with dark eldar. and one very infamous apothecary runs it

[spiral horizon]

needle pistols are real but man the one we get in DT is built diff

I'm grinding out needle pistol mastery rn and I avoid using it outside of specialists

[versed spruce]

What syringe is piercing and transmitting fluid through carapace and flak better than some melee weapons, and a not insignificant amount of ranged weapons

[spiral horizon]

one made in tertium backalleys I suppose

got that moebian steel needle tip or something

[tropic crag]

yeah i only use it for specials and to cut a crusher or 2 out of the pack before slamming into them, any more feels wrong

[versed spruce]

I think a cup you refill from a bottle that's just splashing acid in a cone would be neat

Now that would be back alley gaming

[drifting heron]

Needlers pre fire a laser to pen armor

[versed spruce]

But accounting for travel time, wouldn't that like almost never work on a moving target

[drifting heron]

Shhhhhh

[versed spruce]

[drifting heron]

Don't think too hard

It'll stop working

[spiral horizon]

this is 40k yeah

[versed spruce]

You're right, it's 40k

[spiral horizon]

like people meme about Ork technology but like...man humanity really is playing with the same deck of cards just with extra steps

[versed spruce]

Is that like actually real lore or did you make the laser thing up

Tell me it's real

[spiral horizon]

getting a machine gun that doesn't fire bullets, instead the machine spirit manifests to kick my target's nuts

[drifting heron]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Needler

[versed spruce]

40k is so goofy it's charming

Even when it tries to take itself seriously

[drifting heron]

Why would I lie

[echo plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[tropic crag]

i now have no problem with the needle gun wrecking armor (still could maybe tune down a tiny bit)

[drifting heron]

The secondary thing with needler pen'ing carapace is it doesn't need much energy after it gets through

[tropic crag]

yeah it only needs to get through

[drifting heron]

If a normal bullet wastes all its energy on the armor it does nothing

Needler gunk just needs to nick you post pen

[arctic imp]

Lore accurate needle gun? Just shoot the bad guys bro.

[tropic crag]

its all fun and games till you go to reload and just die

[arctic imp]

true.

In other news, I hope we get a new hive scum cosmetic rotation soon. They said it wasn’t gonna be like arbites with how limited they would be in terms of making new cosmetics.

[arctic imp]

The downside of needle gun is the fact that you have to wait for it to kill things. It’s also not very ammo efficient(and I’m not one of the weirdos that always takes pickpocket because that thing will definitely be nerfed)

[dim moth]

the gun with 106 shots that one shots everything in the game smaller than an ogryn isn't ammo efficient?

[final temple]

they are more like mini meltas with a toxin coated sliver as second stage

[dim moth]

if a melta is even a laser to begin with of course

since there's not a canon description of them beyond the name, and that they are short ranged anti-tank weapons

[final temple]

come now. volkite made some authors at least try to come up with a difference between heat rays xD

btw. archaeotech volkite caliver for our new admech class when?

[tropic crag]

i think 2 shots per special and 4 shots for oggy's is super ammo efficient as a side arm for how many bullets it has tbh

but yeah the waiting is a downside

[dim moth]

all specialists except for mutants will die to one shot

actually wait dogs might take two

[final temple]

specialists one, elite 2, ogryns 3

[dim moth]

ye maulers and scab ragers live a single dart

[arctic imp]

As a sidearm* if you use it as a primary form of damage you will run out.

With my tox build I love it, but only as a circumstantial tool. Horde control, special sniping. Occasional Stuff like that.

[arctic imp]

It may only take one for specialists but if speed is your thing you will empty more into any enemy you see, though it only take 5 for max stacks I believe

Purely because they die faster if you’ve shot more into them

[final temple]

max stacks are 30. one shot applies 6.

so yeah.

[arctic imp]

Also the lack of stagger can be annoying

[tropic crag]

its more a time thing, that takes so long someone else is going to waste ammo on something already dead. I also shoot oggy's 5 times sometimes or some specials 3 times if i need them dead a hair faster

[arctic imp]

If a flamer or a gunner is eating you up, a needler may not be an appropriate response due to the latency

Even if those things will die in 1-2

Caveats like that is what makes me think it IS balanced despite some people believing needler needs a nerf

[tropic crag]

because ammo is so liberal on the needle gun that you can waste ammo if you're using it as a sidearm specifically and never go below 50 in reserve in auric... and, probably, not run dry in havoc

[tropic crag]

i think some of the top end stacks should be curved downward a bit in how much they give, mostly to stop turning all bosses into a few second music clip

with zero effort

or just like... raise monsters resistance to it or something

[arctic imp]

Well that’s if you use it as a sidearm. It becomes ammo inefficient if you’re using it as your main problem solver

[tropic crag]

yeah, i think it truly shines as a sidearm, like obviously it can do alot with pick pocket but it feels more "as designed" as a sidearm because of how comfy it feels in that role naturally

[rancid coral]

@dim moth xdddddddddd

[arctic imp]

Personally when I put max stacks on a boss, it does a lot but nothing crazy. It is BEAUTIFUL if you put max stacks of tox, and then go crazy on the boss with your preferred method of damage. Then it’s really pretty. I can’t see that as a problem when plenty of builds can do that but better while also managing hordes and walls of armor

[rancid coral]

"recon vet will deal more dmg" my ass!!!

[tropic crag]

its just more how non interactive it is, its literally just click however many times then go about your day lol... its like kruber pushing the bosses off the cliff cheese but EVERY boss AND its not funny at all

at least kruber bullying bosses is funny

[spiral horizon]

plus bile trolls are harder to cliff than other monsters and stormfiends might not approach a cliff at all

[arctic imp]

what build is this? The numbers are screaming desperado

[rancid coral]

It is desperado

[tropic crag]

yeah, its like door cheese in DT, when it works you did put work into it and some luck

[rancid coral]

I was proving them that IAG Vraks Scum is disgustingly OP

[spiral horizon]

I like how it's called desperado because playing the build makes you feel the opposite of desperate

[rancid coral]

because of pickpocket allowing me to shoot 24/7

[spiral horizon]

door kills are also very funny

killed by a stunning lack of osha compliance