hivescum-class

[astral sundial]

THAT i am not entirely sure on yet.

Any recommendations?

[dim moth]

though I run my rampage like this so who am I to say what is and isn't good

[glacial gyro]

Well it matters, because your build needs to match your weapon. For what you have right here, tac axe wouldn't be awful. I would say the node that extends your adrenaline is unnecessary, and with boom bringer you get really good results from getting to extra pouches for a 4th rocket

[glacial gyro]

No Forge's Bellow?

[limber cradle]

I don't run it either tbh

[dim moth]

don't feel like it

[haughty badger]

forges bellow is so good though

[dim moth]

makes thingies harder to stabinate

it is a good node tho

[limber cradle]

First shout makes things harder to kill immediately, second shout everything is dead

[dim moth]

might drop adrenaline duration for it at some point who knows

[astral sundial]

What about the chaxe?

[glacial gyro]

1: It can be used to interrupt bosses or muties
2: If you get dogged during rampage, it will push the dog off you when it ends

[astral sundial]

Been thinking maybe that one

[haughty badger]

Scum has so little crowd control that I take Rampage just for shout

[dim moth]

did you know you can also kill muties to interrupt them

[limber cradle]

Can kill bosses too

[dim moth]

especially potent given they take extra melee damage

[haughty badger]

makes things easier to kill for me, and I play on controller. and usually not everything is dead cause there's always more enemies. especially when monstrosities are around, which is where the shout really shines

[glacial gyro]

It does look similar to my chainaxe build, yeah, except that its finesse modifiers aren't great so I'd go for the melee damage aura instead of the crit aura

[haughty badger]

cant kill a mutie through a crusher

[limber cradle]

I'm not telling you not to use it

I'm just explaining why I don't

[astral sundial]

And for bossdamage I was thinking maybe a shotgun?

Or a bolter if scum gets that

[glacial gyro]

You can identify the havoc players by their ability to recognize that bulwark/crusher walls stopping you from hitting disablers is what actually makes the disablers a threat

[haughty badger]

(to be fair I dont play Havoc much, too often you just "cant matchmake," but I'm getting back into it)

[dim moth]

I play havoc 40

[limber cradle]

No you don't

[limber cradle]

A true havoc player uses the shout

[astral sundial]

Updated would look like this?

[dim moth]

You're right because nobody will fucking ACCEPT ME holy SHIT

[limber cradle]

Don't you understand that Tox

[glacial gyro]

What? If you have chainaxe, chainaxe IS your bossing weapon. Your ranged weapon is for snipers and trappers. For that reason, needle pistol or revolver are my suggestions

[astral sundial]

Duely noted.

[keen timber]

mutants would never run directly at you and put themselves in harms way either!

[limber cradle]

The mutant will CC the enemies for me

[astral sundial]

Basically my thoughtprocess here is I wanna be the "Go crazy, go stupid" scum. Like, run into the horde and only come back out once its dead.

Full borderlands psycho meele mode basically

[glacial gyro]

That will work until it doesnt

But yes, chainaxe mk12 is my suggestion for this

[astral sundial]

[glacial gyro]

When I say it will work until it doesn't, what I mean is there comes a point in havocs where kiting and falling back are very important because you literally cannot kill fast enough to avoid being swarmed and dying while going sicko mode

[astral sundial]

K. Then I'll use my needler for this.

[dim moth]

rampage with no stamina talent

[astral sundial]

Noted. Havnt even started havocs with anything yet ^^'

Kinda scared of them lul

[dim moth]

my man's just rawdogging the withdrawal

[astral sundial]

But I do feel quite comfy in aurics

[limber cradle]

Havoc 1-20 are easy

20-25 are medium

[dim moth]

Well I mean you can it's just easier and safer to not kill them all

[keen timber]

havoc below 20 is pretty much easier than auric yeah

[dim moth]

Especially with normal teams

[keen timber]

30 is fucking nightmarish

40 is easier than 30

[limber cradle]

If you're good you can just

Walk through 1-15 or so

[thorny ginkgo]

what stamina talent?

[dim moth]

directly to the left of Nimble

[glacial gyro]

Unironically, its the damnation/auric effect, where damnations are harder than aurics because the people that play damnation are sweating their asses off but aren't actually any good, while people in Auric go 'fuck it we ball' and go hard. Havoc 35 is full of people shrieking at their monitors when the director fucks them over, and havoc 40 players go 'fuck it we ball' and go hard.

[astral sundial]

May I bother you one more time for perks and blesses? ^^'

[keen timber]

not even

Every time I've done a 40

I've had less bullshit than doing 30-35ish

[thorny ginkgo]

oh, idk what to drop for that

[keen timber]

imo run rampage over dependancy

[glacial gyro]

Blessings are asy, headtaker slaughterer. You're just here to ramp the chainaxe's really high damage and cleave into the stratosphere with a combination of power stacking and hyper violence. You hit oneshot territory on virtually anything after anough swings. Perks are tougher, I've been floating around on them, but I think I've settled on Carapace/Unyielding.

[keen timber]

dependancy kinda mid as fuck

[keen timber]

for havoc id prob 100% go carayielding

[neon fern]

u mean over crate ?

[thorny ginkgo]

you mean frenzy?

[keen timber]

yeah mb

frenzy

I keep fucking the names up

[limber cradle]

I imagine they meant adrenaline

[neon fern]

dependency is v good

[keen timber]

or

[neon fern]

tho

[keen timber]

yeah that

imo dependancy just isn't as good

it's like 15% crit

[neon fern]

and tdr

[keen timber]

or 20% with that

[neon fern]

and cd

[keen timber]

yeah but it's also 4 nodes of investment

[astral sundial]

Thanks ^^ I'll give that a try

[neon fern]

on shiv rampage with hyper crit it's v nice to have allat

[keen timber]

I guess

[limber cradle]

I'd rather have adrenaline tbh

[thorny ginkgo]

chem depend works better for me compared to frenzy with shivs

[keen timber]

same

[limber cradle]

If you like it you like it

[keen timber]

adren just gives good shit

with free uptime

[neon fern]

i need as many crit as possible for HC

this is how u kill with shivs

[thorny ginkgo]

frenzy is good too, i'd use it on rashad

[limber cradle]

Ime the 15 percent doesn't change a lot

Shivs are critting all the time anyway

[neon fern]

that's why it does a lot

[glacial gyro]

I think dagger, shivs, and taxe are the only weapons I'd go chemdep over adrenaline on, and that last one is iffy. Weapons with really, really high finesse modifiers and crit damage just want to crit more and you can get nearly 100% crit chance on those which pans out to a higher dps than adrenaline.

Actually add saw to that list

[limber cradle]

I prefer those crits flat out doing more damage tbh

[glacial gyro]

Saw I would go chemdep on because of the fucky interactions with adrenaline

[thorny ginkgo]

yea true, instead of the crit chance stim i went finesse in the scoreboard i sent.. idk if there's a big difference

[neon fern]

prob not

u just need to crit to win anyway

[thorny ginkgo]

yea lol, i feel like i already crit a lot without it

[neon fern]

chem dep already covers it ya

[thorny ginkgo]

finesse helps A LOT

[neon fern]

for stimm i have all in CD and a few in toughness

just so i can get my rampage back asap

[thorny ginkgo]

smart

might switch to CDR

[neon fern]

i think u always want CDR on ur stimm unles you're running crate

[thorny ginkgo]

i agree

i feel like cdr is more important than strength and finesse

if you're killing a lot rampage can go off constantly

[vast yoke]

hello my beautiful wives

[lapis raft]

my tree is becoming more and more scuffed every day

funnily enough HC barely affected my stimm uptime so i guess its fine

[unreal stirrup]

literally just the toughness on stim node

[vivid latch]

Does the long lasting (+5 seconds) work with the stimm supply? or only on injecting an actual stim?

[lapis raft]

doesnt work wih stimm supply

[vivid latch]

Thanks, couldn't tell if my timing was off in the grinder or something else lol

[astral sundial]

For chaxe i probably wanna just go damage and rending over crit on the stim then ?

Or do i wanna still take crit on the stim?

[unique spire]

Crits are powerful with Chainaxe

Zealot Chainaxe specialist speaking

Though rending isn't bad

Whatever makes you feel stronger, choose it

[main trellis]

I found out in practice that 25% cdr is better than melee cdr on kill

More consistent

[versed spruce]

It feels like 25% flat is a cough compared to 75% CDR on kill tbh

Especially considering you'd really only be popping your CDR stim on a rampage build if you need it back now so you have things to kill nearby

[final temple]

pretty much my build now, just punching above instead of battering strikes.. what do you run it with? saw?

[lapis raft]

knife

thats why i prefer battering there mostly

[rancid veldt]

I thought the devil claw being good on this class was a meme till I actually tried it and I’m surprised how good it is lol

[final temple]

running shivs. Build is surprisingly versatile.

[jaunty spire]

I'm starting to come around on the dual stub pistols. They go crazy on a crit build

[pulsar aspen]

@rancid veldt @main trellis Devils Claw can be really good on Hive Scum, in a silly way that shouldn't be possible.

[rancid veldt]

Oh yeah I’ve realized my fave weapon that I’ve used for years and still terrible on most classes finally has seen the light into being good

I tended not to use it often since in havoc 1.0 I would get flamed for pulling it out

[pulsar aspen]

Because by all accounts it is not good.

[limber cradle]

Its amazing what stacking a god awful amount of stats via a tree on a weapon can do

[icy scaffold]

It’s also the fact that needle pistol dumpsters everything that devil’s claw is bad at

[pulsar aspen]

Yeah and it is amazing in that it requires that much help to be a useful weapon

[livid raven]

Melee scum hard carries so many bad weapons

[rancid veldt]

I mean FS have tried to buff it(by buff I mean fuck all)

Thank god DS parry is awful compared to it

[livid raven]

yeah can we please buff the DS

[final temple]

Merry Grotmas you bunch of misfits.

[brave merlin]

does anyone know if CDR from the stim applies to the stim cd?

[final temple]

doesn't.

[brave merlin]

makes sense

I guess any CDR doesnt apply ?

[pulsar aspen]

No.

The only way to reduce the stim cooldown should be Sample-Collector

[unreal cradle]

Stimm CD is not Combat Ability

[brave merlin]

just making sure

[lapis raft]

well the stimm tree doesnt mention combat ability at all, just generic cooldown regen, so if the wording did not sucked it should work, but it doesnt

[unreal cradle]

True, but that also extends even further in the hive scum tree.

Like how Chem Dep says cooldown REDUCTION, but it means to say Regeneration.
And so on.

[grave venture]

"Cooldown reduction" WHICH MF COOLDOWN

[eager reef]

what goes on tacaxes these days

[brave merlin]

u know, the ability

[brave merlin]

nothing

tac axes are a meme

also its crit

[limber cradle]

Ime Cara/Unyielding with Head Taker and Brutal Momentum

You might like Shred instead of Brutal if you only single target with it

[unreal cradle]

Dont need brutal momentum with hive scum since scummer has enough cleave. This allows you to run the taxe as a boss deleter and trash clear.

[eager reef]

i have another, much stupider idea

[brave merlin]

I feel like you should be aware that the pen on the tac axe is trash

and also you get inifinite pen if you crit

[unreal cradle]

With the insane attack speed and crit hive scum has, you can get the taxe up to like 50k DPS against monstrosities. (The attack speed can stack so high you end up needing macros to keep up, use macros at your own risk)

[brave merlin]

and also it has the same movespeed as all the other melee weapons that arent two handed

[limber cradle]

I like committing to a gimmick and brutal+the tree cleave had me murdering a shotgunner patrol in 2 swings before

[eager reef]

imma go test this stupidity

[charred bronze]

it's not like talent cleave doesn't work or help. I just find with bromentum I can move all those points into something else

without an overall loss of effectiveness

[bronze glade]

brumentum is pretty damn important on taxe

[flat mist]

Speaking of cooldown reduction

Hypex is such a trap with chem dep

All risk very little reward

[main trellis]

Just like arby did too; i hope won’t keep this trend & update the weapons in question instead

[limber cradle]

Honestly I think melee and tox scum are about as stupid as ranged scum is

People just put their attention on ranged scum

[pulsar aspen]

(because it is easier)

[fast surge]

Yeah anyone can play ranged scum and top damage

[brittle sierra]

I'm about to drop a nuke take

Y'all ready

[limber cradle]

Let's hear it

[pulsar aspen]

How bad could it be?

[brittle sierra]

I think Crate and Melee scum is better for havoc than range scum

[limber cradle]

I agree tbh.

At least with melee scum being better.

[final temple]

https://tenor.com/view/rpx-syria-mic-drop-gif-19149907

[brittle sierra]

I said it, now watch 🍿

[pulsar aspen]

https://tenor.com/hBIGia4Sbja.gif

[limber cradle]

If ranged scum didn't have infinite ammo(which is stupid) no one would bat an eye at it

[brittle sierra]

I mean any scum can have infinite anmo

[limber cradle]

Ik, its how I know mag dumping needler on melee scum works lmfao

[clear isle]

what bad weapons did arby carry? they looked pretty ok to me

[brittle sierra]

I think the problem is that range scum had no answers for crushers except needle

Wait NEEDLE RANGE ECUM META?????

[pulsar aspen]

@clear isle Chainsword, the new Bolt Gun Mark

[eager reef]

crit maxxing is goofy and i adore it

[clear isle]

new bolt gun I agree, but cmon assault chainsword aint that bad

[brittle sierra]

add shred

DO IT

[limber cradle]

Yeah, I'd prefer shred to spree

[eager reef]

i think shred would be better, spree is funny dont get me wrong

[main trellis]

Chainsword
And ye mk3 boltgun; the best to use it on

[brittle sierra]

spree plus BM plus toxin

[clear isle]

fr? why the chainsword hate?

[limber cradle]

Whats arby doing for Chainsword?

[main trellis]

Reliable stagger

[limber cradle]

That makes sense tbh

Which in turn works with all your stagger buffs

[main trellis]

Can stagger a crusher with a rev on demand

[main trellis]

No hate
I wish it was better

[pulsar aspen]

While you rev and "shred" with your chainweapon, you are vulnerable, especially since you want the full duration of the rev because the backloaded damage against carapace(do i remember that right?)

[limber cradle]

Time to play darktide and wonder why I subject myself to havoc before closing the game again

[rancid veldt]

has anyone tested the devil claw stagger build? I’ve been hearing word of it being able to stagger crushers

[pulsar aspen]

Party Finder Havoc? Yeah that is a good question.

[limber cradle]

Yes.

[clear isle]

true it could be better, but I find it pretty fun as is, I used it often on both vet and zealot (Up to damnation, auric is still hard for me to beat even with meta)

[pulsar aspen]

@rancid veldt It can stagger Crushers, yes.

[limber cradle]

I should honestly just install the solo mod atp

[rancid veldt]

Is it the impact/hammer blows combo

[pulsar aspen]

@clear isle "fun" and "good" are not the same thing unfortunately.

[clear isle]

I used to think the same but a bad weapon isnt gonna be fun to play now is it

[pulsar aspen]

It is fun making a bad weapon good.

[clear isle]

its definitely not as good as others, but it aint bad

[main trellis]

Yes: you can; its silly

[pulsar aspen]

And even bad weapons can be fun to play with, if you like the challenge aspect of it.

[limber cradle]

Devil's Claw is fun but my god it is not good.

[pulsar aspen]

(Achlys Combat Axe)

[main trellis]

Hammerblow is all you need

[rancid veldt]

Ah hammerblow and crit chance I’m guessing

[main trellis]

No; skullcrusher

[tight musk]

Kinda weird they didn't put skullcrusher on crowbar.

[manic wolf]

Yeah nah, we would because being immune to ranged damage for the entire game and being able to ignore most of everything else is equally, if not more stupid than infinite ammo

[limber cradle]

I'm gonna be honest that shit does not seem to be saving people

Like yeah, fundamentally it should be

If you can abuse it you'll be fine

But my god

[mental igloo]

prolly would've been actually busted with how its stagger works

[manic wolf]

Pugs being full of floor inspectors is not an effective measure of if something is stupid or not, i have to say it

[limber cradle]

Frankly I think some of the people in this game would find a way to die if you made them literally immune to all damage

[manic wolf]

Indeed lol

[kind mist]

I will find the killplane and you cannot stop me.

[manic wolf]

Make friends with a mutant or spawn too close to a wall or ledge, they'll help 😄

[icy scaffold]

Crate scum is just ranged scum in a lab coat

[main trellis]

Or hammerblow; i understand SC cause its broken but hammerblow? Missed opportunity

[limber cradle]

Crowbar blessings feel so meh to me

[tight musk]

Superiority is a little silly cause it affects toxin damage.

Also stacks if an enemy dies from toxin while you're holding the crowbar.

[manic wolf]

It needs to prioritize elites and specials within the hitbox area in beaky mode an then we'd get a bit better picture of how the blessings fit the weapon, as it is right now you can only leverage a few of them with any sort of success

[tight musk]

It's, what, 37.5% extra strength at 3 stacks? That's a lot of extra toxin damage.

[tight musk]

Yeah, I gotta be honest, it's kinda hard to hit exactly what you want with the special mode, it just keeps getting stuck on trash when you're fighting a horde, which is, like, almost all the time.

[manic wolf]

Yeah... which makes the weapon feel clumsy and like only blunt mode is of any use

In theory it could be a super flexible weapon with lower peak damage than other options, but wouldnt be weak into any target, as it is, it sucks into anything thats not trash simply because you cant land the hits when you need them

[charred bronze]

it's both, the infinite ammo and high vulture's dodge uptime. I'd rather it be nerfed gently if at all. They did an okay job toning down arbites. They're still extremely strong

[eager reef]

mfw i gotta clutch for 3 minutes be a barrel took the team off the map and all i have is this stupid tacax

[tight musk]

Tbf, with adrenaline frenzy and rampage you can do like 3.5-4k damage on a crit to a crusher's head with a charged heavy in normal mode.

[limber cradle]

Idk what i want and tbh I don't really care what happens atp

[manic wolf]

TaxAxe is one of Scums best melee weapons tho 😄

[rancid veldt]

My crit brain rot got to me for a moment

[limber cradle]

They'll either nerf it right or they won't and I'll adapt either way

[eager reef]

perhaps, however

this is what im using rn

[manic wolf]

Ah.. yep, you're fucked

[eager reef]

i wanted to see the limits of crit maxxing

[manic wolf]

Slaughterspree does in fact not proc itself on Hypercritical kills

[eager reef]

i found this out immediately

[charred bronze]

You can get hit during reloads, and crushers, gas, and floor-is-lava shit is particularly bad for scum. Plus trappers/dogs. People are gonna die anyway

[manic wolf]

Its a shame because it would have been a super neat interaction, but hey, it is what it is

It would have been a means to justify HC's existence, but once again it proves to be kinda shidd

[charred bronze]

which is extremely sad

[eager reef]

true, still im having fun, 3 guys on mic losing their mind as i play a very average hive scum sweating buckets bc i've a live audience

[limber cradle]

Can the rocket crit?

[manic wolf]

Based, gotta strap on the carry pants and show em how its done

[eager reef]

with how bad my QP matches have fucking for real

[manic wolf]

Ive never seen it crit when testing various interactions it might have, but i dont wanna say it cant, my experience is purely anecdotal ofc

[eager reef]

https://tenor.com/view/you-keep-talking-gif-14765812

[bronze glade]

it can

ryken was testing it

[limber cradle]

Neat, thank you

[bronze glade]

it has weakspot/crit damage

[limber cradle]

It has fucking weakspot damage?

[bronze glade]

not a huge difference, but it's there

lemme see if i can find it

[tight musk]

The blue taxe is really good on scum.

Light attacks are all diagonal sweeps for clearing trash and heavy attacks are single target vertical swings, with the uppercut heavy 2 dealing even more damage than heavy 1.

[manic wolf]

Based MKIV enjoyer

[icy scaffold]

Like technically yes, but it might as well not exist iirc

[eager reef]

it's a rocket, im aiming center mass

[limber cradle]

I'm aiming for skulls now

[bronze glade]

sorry maybe it was just weakspot

[limber cradle]

Thats not nothing tbh

[brittle sierra]

everyone

[bronze glade]

yeah

[brittle sierra]

hear me out

[limber cradle]

Alright, explain

[tight musk]

I use blue taxe on scum and green taxe on melee psyker. Tho on Scum I mostly play with saw.

[charred bronze]

iirc, according to Kuli's doc it also benefits from Quick & Deadly and, hilariously, Battering Momentum

[icy scaffold]

You can drop the cooldown refund on desperado, and the funny melee toxin stuff unless you really want to melee

[brittle sierra]

needler

range scum

[bronze glade]

skipping burst of energy

[limber cradle]

Why would it work with battering

Who is coding this game

[charred bronze]

it's possible I'm mis-remembering, but I don't think I am. I vividly recall chuckling when I read that

[icy scaffold]

You don’t need either subnode for desperado then iirc, because toxin kills don’t count

[brittle sierra]

they do

I tested it

it also increases the dot damage

I dont know why, because unload doesn't

[icy scaffold]

Does Desperado extend too?

Or is it limited to the 10 seconds still

[brittle sierra]

yes

wait let me record it

[icy scaffold]

Yea that’d be cool

[icy scaffold]

I think I’d still drop all the melee stuff and just go all in on the funny pistol

[tight musk]

The first hotfix they released for scum specifically mentioned desperado now working with needle gun.

[brittle sierra]

im taking those on the right for this

[tight musk]

I dropped this on my saw build and I didn't really notice a difference.

[icy scaffold]

Oh does close range needle toxin kills bring back blinders?

[brittle sierra]

yes

[icy scaffold]

Because you could just grab +1 blitz instead of coated weaponry

[brittle sierra]

this is also pretty funny

[tight musk]

Pretty sure In Your Face always worked with needle gun. You just need to be holding the gun to profit from extra toxin damage.

[brittle sierra]

new meta everyone

just spam needles

[limber cradle]

Genuinely yeah

In this havoc meta?

[near mauve]

needle works with desperado what

[icy scaffold]

Gonna try needle gun desperado when I get home I guess

[brittle sierra]

yep

[tight musk]

I tried it a few times and it wasn't very fun. I don't have the scoreboard so I don't know how effective it was, but it just wasn't fun to use for me.

[near mauve]

crazy frog

[zealous ravine]

is your gam haunted

[brittle sierra]

wondering if I can switch the blessing around

[brittle sierra]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[limber cradle]

Why run +1 needle?

[brittle sierra]

guys

I have an idea 😏

[limber cradle]

Yes

I use it too

I think Goblin was the person who turned me on to that

[brittle sierra]

ahh fuck its weakspot hit

nvm

[bronze glade]

it'll let you cleave a poxxer i think

so there's that

[brittle sierra]

LETS FUCKING GOOOO

[dim moth]

HUGE value

this is what my blessing slots are spent on fr

[limber cradle]

I mean tbh if it lets you stack tox dots faster firing into trash I think thats good

Idk wtf else you're using on the needler

[brittle sierra]

look how tiny the hip spread is

wait if u go infested and unyield, does that make you do 50% more damage to beasts?

[pulsar aspen]

Correct me if iam wrong, but the DoT won't be affected by weapon perks.

Only the actual needle projectile will get amplified.

[tight musk]

DoT is affected by the bonuses of the weapon you're holding.

[pulsar aspen]

Okay.

[flat mist]

I updated my rampage cooldown autism doc

[brittle sierra]

lmao this keeps getting better

[subtle matrix]

Does the Damage stat for the Needler have any impact on toxin?

[flat mist]

No

[subtle matrix]

Perfect, got my gun then

Thankyou

[brittle sierra]

wait seriously is des needle actually the play?

[limber cradle]

Tbh

Probably

For havoc with rot armor and blight?

Keeps you out of enemy range

Does great damage into RA

[brittle sierra]

this is soo funny

[pulsar aspen]

https://tenor.com/bde7U.gif

[limber cradle]

Its like

The logical conclusion to making standard weapons ineffective

[kind mist]

Hotshot doesn't work into havoc

mass boosts too high

[random shuttle]

Behold

[pulsar aspen]

I've heard a lot of people are not amused that Rotten Armor is back.

[limber cradle]

I'm tilted over it ngl

[pulsar aspen]

I am delighted to see it back once again.

[limber cradle]

Happy for you

[tight musk]

I'd probably use the Mk 2 for full needle build cause then you're spreading toxin to enemies instead of having them do a weak explosion.

[limber cradle]

Because you're a misery vampire?

[pulsar aspen]

Nah, its a skill check modifier.

And many people fail it.

🙂

[limber cradle]

I disagree tbh

Its a patience check modifier tho

Kinda like pox gas

[shut tapir]

build?

[limber cradle]

Scroll up a little more

[analog blade]

Yooo dandy wsp😭

Did not know you played warhammer

[tight musk]

I hammer some wars occasionally.

[brittle sierra]

wait whats the difference between the 2 needles again?

[limber cradle]

2 is the fuck you explode into tox mark

6 is the stagger alt mark

[analog blade]

2 is the best I believe tho

[mighty belfry]

It's a bladder check modifier.

[brittle sierra]

no for most builds u go 6 because the main shot has more poison

[analog blade]

Ahhh okay

[brittle sierra]

🧑🏻‍🍳

[limber cradle]

I love when my havocs are twice as long because of the modifier

[analog blade]

Lowkey shivs + needle gun goes crazy

[limber cradle]

Highkey we know

[brittle sierra]

wait I just realized too, u can dump the poison and then use des to insta reload

[limber cradle]

Yup

[brittle sierra]

wait is mk2 the play?

[limber cradle]

Now you're cooking man

[limber cradle]

Yup

[analog blade]

I think this is what you want to be doing

[analog blade]

We saw the unedited message buddy

[limber cradle]

Dump Mk2 into enemies, reload with desp, watch as they all die to pox

[tight musk]

Mk 2 makes enemies spread toxin when they die, the other makes enemies enemies explode and deal slight damage and stagger to nearby enemies.

Mk 2 has slightly worse single target cause it adds less stacks on hit, especially in blue mode, but any enemy that dies in blue mode puts a stack of toxin on anything nearby.

[kind mist]

If I had my hands on the templates...

[limber cradle]

Adding less stacks per hit matters less when you can just desp for infinite ammo and dump the gun without aiming imo

[tight musk]

Yeah, pretty much.

You'll spread more toxin to enemies.

[obsidian crown]

I still haven’t played that modifier but gonna be back on havocs this weekend

Doesn’t sound fun

[limber cradle]

It's rot armor+blight spreads, have fun

I think you can get pox gas mixed in too

[obsidian crown]

Is that gonna be in rotation until end of season or they rotate out after x weeks?

[limber cradle]

No idea tbh

[charred bronze]

What are people running on the stubs for Desperado builds?

[limber cradle]

Uhhh

Run and Gun+Sustained Fire

Flak/Maniacs

Personally

Thats not something I run in havoc tho

Thats more of a for fun thing ime

[bronze glade]

fun
desp stub pistols
pick one

[charred bronze]

man, the blessings on this gun are. . .

[limber cradle]

Its very fun ime

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124

[limber cradle]

Its a fucking shame the .45s aren't that great

[brittle sierra]

new build up

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0abe4fa-c23b-42a2-8347-0dbb47d3bb46/professional-motrin-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[analog blade]

You can have both wym

https://tenor.com/view/tf-gif-26881211

[bronze glade]

i'm memeing, somewhat

but if i wanted a gun that reloads every 2 seconds, i'd take DB

[limber cradle]

Tbh I did the exact same thing to the original one lmfao

[charred bronze]

Guessing Terrifying Barrage and Powderburn aren't that great?

[brittle sierra]

unfortunately, this does NOT proc dot damage 😔

so we using regular 25%

[limber cradle]

I went for pure CD

Yeah

[bronze glade]

yeah bad

[limber cradle]

Its a stylish reload however

So that's +1 point for it

[bronze glade]

true...

[charred bronze]

Not enough magazine to make crucian roulette all that good

[brittle sierra]

idk why but this doesn't proc either

dot doesn't count either

[charred bronze]

Is the stagger good enough to make pinning fire decent?

[limber cradle]

Ime nah

[charred bronze]

cuz it works a treat on the DAPs

[bronze glade]

i thought it does 🤔

[brittle sierra]

not on needle

[limber cradle]

Sustained fire ime feels the best cause you normally have to shoot something twice or thrice

And they need run and gun to feel better imo

[bronze glade]

yeah sustained/run n gun is whati use

[bronze glade]

worse comes to worst you could take out your melee weapon and get one melee kill lol

[limber cradle]

Desperate times call for desperate measures ig

Havoc desp needler time

[charred bronze]

Needler just doesn't seem good for despo. Playable? Probably, but it doesn't play into most of the build's strengths, and it's like, purpose built to be a strong sidearm

[limber cradle]

Tbh personally I think I'd run rocket with it

The 5mg vs the 50mg motrin

[icy scaffold]

Apparently the explosion one spreads toxin in an actual game when the enemy explodes. It doesn’t in the psych ward though.

[limber cradle]

Under normal circumstances I would agree with you

We are however in Rot Armor+Blight Spreads circumstances

[tight musk]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't, cause I tried using both on a ranged build.

[main trellis]

I mean from dot i understand its not a ranged kill
Otherwise voice of terra for zel would be insanely good with flamer

[charred bronze]

why not just play another build and find points for Pickpocket?

[main trellis]

Exacly

[limber cradle]

Because I do not want to stand near the rot armor blight spreads enemies as they explode

[tight musk]

Almost nothing works on needle, tbf.

[charred bronze]

if you damage 'em enough with the needler toxin, doesn't that disable the plosion?

[main trellis]

I mean… the radius is soo small even in melee you don’t get bothered lmao

[charred bronze]

I haven't played the affix in a hot minute

[limber cradle]

Okay.

[limber cradle]

Ime no, no it doesn't

[charred bronze]

hmmm okay

[main trellis]

Why would it?

[icy scaffold]

I mean technically, unless Desperado buffs toxin damage enough, you only need pickpocket to go infinite with needle pistol.

[main trellis]

Its a kill; the cloud releases on death

[limber cradle]

Yes, I am aware of that.

[charred bronze]

I vaguely recall the buff falling off of them after the first 20% hp or so. Maybe twas a dream

[icy scaffold]

Desperado is pretty fun though anyways

https://tenor.com/view/dakka-tabletop-dungeoneers-discord-orcs-irks-gif-22814163

[limber cradle]

Desperado also yk

Makes you ranged immune

Which is not nothing.

[main trellis]

Of all thing… rotten now is easier cause dr is not bugged

[icy scaffold]

Oh right

[main trellis]

But ppl see numbers & the fact it affects melee and ‚oh no; its soo bad havoc is ded’ type shit
Use CC; no CC - no victory

[limber cradle]

Or yk

Spam explosions and dots

[ancient basin]

smite psykers though

[charred bronze]

Hm, messing around here, it seem like the stubs are better suited to be a sidearm choice for a Rampage build, maybe to take out distant specials. They're nowhere near as good as the DAPs, especially pinning fire DAPs

[icy scaffold]

If they ever nerf the infinite ammo on scum, I’m gonna become a smite psyker and just smite everything

[main trellis]

Pistols & desperado is pepega choice

They are a sidearm

Not main range weapon

[icy scaffold]

They said Rampage tho

[charred bronze]

and the needler exists, so the only reason to use them is pure style

cuz they sound great

[ancient basin]

Thing about smite psyker is people dont do situational awareness. Your melee and ranged weapons are better choices in some situations compared to just holding smite, but I digress.

[main trellis]

Ah fair; well - i use them on rampage & they are pretty good

[ancient basin]

dual stubs cool

[icy scaffold]

I’ll become the obnoxious smite only Psyker

[main trellis]

Nah; just smite everything majority of the time (i am serious)

[ancient basin]

run EP and vent, kill all trash

alternatively run SG and go palpatine

equip combat knife or chain sword to zoom at 1000% move speed

[main trellis]

Good but not better than VS; less safe & less reactive

[ancient basin]

(only for running away)

[main trellis]

FS for deflector

[ancient basin]

agree vs is more reactive

[charred bronze]

the double barrel seems really fun though

wouldn't use it with VDodge, not enough uptime

[main trellis]

Shredder auto tho

[charred bronze]

what are people putting on it. I hastily assembled one with Deathspitter and Manstopper, but I think it'll need a reload blessing

[flat mist]

Surely not the only one who finds these numbers deeply interesting. You can see in the highlighted section you need to maintain atleast 50% hypex uptime to get a meaningful benefit (1.8s to be specific) from it over just running kalma V.

[main trellis]

Nah; speedloader talent is enough

[charred bronze]

what's the shredder got over the DAPs? A perfect roll hasn't shown up for me casually yet and I won't build one til it does

[flat mist]

How often does that even happen? There's atleast a half dozen factors hindering you from getting that uptime on hypex...

[charred bronze]

my brain ain't braining. What's hypex?

[main trellis]

Better stagger
Better reload speed
Better crit synergy
Useful special
Better accuracy

[flat mist]

Extra CDR from stimm when you get a melee kill. It's the 75% for 1s node.

[ancient basin]

kill competitions at higher skills get dicey on HS

[brittle sierra]

ok i tried this on mael, it's too clunky 😔

[charred bronze]

OOooh

[ancient basin]

you can have whole segments where you are just cleaning up stragglers

[brittle sierra]

having to constantly reload is painful

[charred bronze]

shit this is of great interest to me then

[last marsh]

darktide gm thinks its hilarious

[main trellis]

Slap 10% reload speed perk

[ancient basin]

stubs are kinda odd to me in that they are very decent at base, and the blessings are not amazing so they just stay decent overall

[main trellis]

They need alot of help to shine but they can be good

Their acc is tgeir main weakness

[brittle sierra]

I did however make a small edit to my Fent build: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a077d553-91e8-46ba-98db-89673f567985/porfessional-fent-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[ancient basin]

I find them very satisfying, but they could use a small bump similar to crow bar

[charred bronze]

dunno what I'd do to liven them up, but they need a little push

[flat mist]

If rampage has just run out you've:

• gone from 80% damage taken to 125%
• have no stam
• have less melee damage
• might’ve just reached a lull in enemies to attack (why else did it fall off?)
• might be fighting armour packs (good luck getting a kill every 2s when the TTK in havoc is often higher than that)
• might be fighting a monstrosity
  Etc etc

[main trellis]

Use ‚run & gun’ & ‚sticky hands’ and its already great

[rough peak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/627034802574589958/1287304639053692999/blackops6-bo6.gif

[flat mist]

Maintaining hypex is just unlikely af

Bad node

Total trap

[limber cradle]

Which node is hypex?

[flat mist]

75% CDR for 1s on melee kill

[limber cradle]

Thanks

Didn't recognize it off name

[flat mist]

Same applies to Klay the ranged one

But that is easier to maintain on despo builds to be fair

[limber cradle]

I like Klay for Desp builds tbh

[flat mist]

Yeah I'm only really dissing on hypex here

[limber cradle]

But i do think it's better in like, higher tiers with more poxxies to mag dump into

[main trellis]

If you struggle in surviving get chem fortified - preferably instead of jitter

Best keystone modifier for chem dem

[charred bronze]

Flak Unyielding on the Shredder, just like the DAPs?

[ancient basin]

The way I run rampage is a constant medium level of damage and attack speed out put. so rampage until it runs out, then I pop my stim to buff my reduced attack speed (from stamina loss) and damage down. Add in hive city brawler giving 20% damage when rampage ends and I am almost always at +20-25% damage and +10-32% attack speed. Running the stamina on dodge perk is ironically a great way to survive the rampage exhaust hit.

dealers choice between chem dependency and adrenaline, depending on my mood

adrenaline mostly for the passive toughness gen for covering my ass when you are swinging into hordes and a small hit sneaks in

[flat mist]

Chem dep is objectively superior imo

*with shivs

[main trellis]

Or maniac; killing flamers & trappers is important

More so than bulwarks & reapers

Imo

[ancient basin]

its passive nature and non reliance on kills does make it a much better option generally yeah

I take the 20 second duration node on adrenaline just to keep the buff rolling

but it should be default imo

[flat mist]

I'm not even taking account uptime in my analysis tbh

[main trellis]

Better to have tdr than passive regen

[flat mist]

Chem dep is always 4-5s off off your rampage cooldown.

At minimum

[ancient basin]

yeah, forge bellow with chem dep cdr is great for crowd control on top of the damage boost

and it gives you all your toughness back faster too

man, I am fat fingering my keys today

[flat mist]

And then youre weighing up 15/20% crit vs a little bit of attack speed on a build that has 25% from rampage + bonuses from stam and 25% damage which is obviously stronk

[obsidian crown]

Lay off the kfc then

[flat mist]

Even on a low finesse weapon that doesn't froth the crit as much, the cooldown off of rampage outweighs the slightly higher damage from adrenaline by a large margin

[ancient basin]

yeah attack speed feels good but is actually harder to scale properly because we only get a small amount of it

[flat mist]

Plus it's doing fuck all for heavy attacks

[ancient basin]

still, I enjoy swinging faster

[flat mist]

It's really only relevant for lights

[ancient basin]

devil claw light spam horde clear goes brrrrrr

[flat mist]

Plus 25% damage isn't actually 25% bc of additive damage calculations

[ancient basin]

sadness

but true

[flat mist]

The same can be said for crit, but with devils claw for eg your crit isn't going to be very high so its less impacted by additive crit scaling (do you even run shred on it idk?)

[viscid pivot]

what's a good dual pistol build

[ancient basin]

I do, for the carapace attack bounce immunity

so its not hitting more targets, but its not stopping mid swing either

also running just HV, so it scales off the crits

3-4 swings and boom you are in 1 tap territory

even faster if you start with a heavy overhead

or a parry

parry starting a HV horde clear feels soo good

[spark gyro]

glad to be done with this class penances.

[flat mist]

So you're at 80% crit w/ max chem dep

And as low as 15% if shred and butterfly fall off without it

So chem dep is between 1.33-2.66x your crit rate

[ancient basin]

hammer blow on the devilclaw is funny on hive scum, as it lets your lights stagger ragers

I have been running rampage, but I might experiment again some time

as my damage output is not lacking from talents anyways

[woeful hill]

you know what you can do to ragers?

this

[spiral horizon]

dclaw scum goes hard man

[woeful hill]

I have a video

H40

should I upload?

[spiral horizon]

dew it

[flat mist]

Imagine being like nah I don't want 4.2-5s off my rampage cooldown because I think 10% attack speed and 25% damage is THAT much better than 15/20% crit

[woeful hill]

gotta make a thumbnail

hmmm

make it Dclaw related or Christmas?

hmmmm

[flat mist]

Always

[mighty belfry]

Tbh I'm starting to like gas station stims with crate

Two strength nodes and two attack speed nodes have a really short cooldown but are surprisingly easy to stack

[ancient basin]

8% damage and attack speed is pretty good

with that level of up time

[flat mist]

So 8% attack speed and 8% strength with a 42s cycle length

Even if you get 30% from sample collector it's 15/35s uptime

Seems like total garbage to me

[eager reef]

I've havent used Dclaws in since doing vet pens, what gets run on them now?

[mighty belfry]

42s?

Wot

[woeful hill]

like blessings?

[eager reef]

tbh i dont know anything about them, last itme i used them we were on the old talent system

[woeful hill]

I have a pic of mine somehwere in this channel

brb fighting twins

[flat mist]

15s base duration. 15s base cooldown. 2s each for the two first nodes. 4s each for the second two nodes.

[tranquil berry]

Wrap a dclaw in tinsel. Celebratory machete

[flat mist]

That's 42s

[spiral horizon]

get jolly with it

[mighty belfry]

It's 27s

[light wagon]

heyy the dump stat for double knife is the mobility right?

[flat mist]

Cycle length...

Not cooldown

You have to take the duration into account when assessing your stims value

[light wagon]

do you buy random grey item until finding a good one and then just ask Hadron to make it great? that's the way the game play lol?

[flat mist]

Yep all the other ways to get weapons are irrelevant unless your compromising because your poor on materials

[mighty belfry]

Crate.

[flat mist]

I'd rather spend another 12s cooldown to just go all the way up one tree for the bigger end bonuses

18, my bad

[mighty belfry]

It's 18s

Oh woops

Message loaded late lol

But honestly, 18s feels like an eternity in this game sometimes

[flat mist]

All g 🙂

[mighty belfry]

I was doing a full 45s

[flat mist]

That extra 18s is getting chipped off by sample collector, though

[mighty belfry]

See that's true except, sample collector goes by percentage, not flat time value.

[flat mist]

Again if we assume 30% SC that's actually an additional 12.6s not 18s

[mighty belfry]

Sample is technically less effective with lower tier stimms.

[flat mist]

Exactly

That's why I can't justify a super low CD stimm

The maths just doesn't check out

[woeful hill]

I run this

[flat mist]

You could even go four modes up one tree to save 10s on the cd

[woeful hill]

60 mobility

[flat mist]

So only adding 8s (5.6s with 30% SC)

I'd rather have 20% strength and 5% crit for 15/50s than 8% strength and 8% attack speed for 15/42s

[vast wigeon]

I'll never understand how the devil claw has such a staunch fanbase

No disrespect obv

[haughty slate]

saaame... the parry mechanic is a cool idea

that's about it

[vast wigeon]

The fact that it has no cleave attached to it annoys me

[mighty belfry]

Works for me honestly

[vast wigeon]

Really dude you're giving me a singularpy target oriented parry designed to deal with one target

[mighty belfry]

Because i also want the crate for the actual uptime on corruption immunity

It's not just about the buffs

[vast wigeon]

I heard the large hulking catachans use devils claws as knifes

I would be onboard from catachans wielding the devil claw with a knife moveset

[viral hedge]

Can someone link me a chem build for auric? I seen one with chem grenades was melting crushers elites etc

[vast wigeon]

People josh on hive scum but they have nutty ways to melt crushers

[flat mist]

Take chem nade. Drop chem nade.

[vast wigeon]

The most noncommittal ways

[viral hedge]

But do you base the build on range or melle

[flat mist]

Fair enough

I'm fully rampage brained atm

[haughty slate]

chem builds come in a variety... do you just want something that uses all the chem weapons? needle pistol/hack saw/chem grenades?

[viral hedge]

Or crit. Does chem needle and chem bombs crit?

[modest patio]

The only thing desperado doesn’t shred is crushers. If it wasn’t that then it was probably rampage crowbar

[haughty slate]

The needle, yes. It will apply more stacks at a time, but the cap will remain the same.

[modest patio]

hacksaw+needle too

[viral hedge]

I usually use crowbar to eliminate elites faster

[mighty belfry]

Chem nades no matter what build will do that.

They're kinda overtuned rn

[flat mist]

Are you doing a double cooldown build where you drop a crate without stim right before stim comes off CD @mighty belfry

[viral hedge]

So the right bottom side of the talent tree is where to finish the skills?

[haughty slate]

Are you talking about chem dependency?

You have to be more specific when you say chem

there's lots of chem in scoomer's kit

[modest patio]

What is your real goal here? Maybe that’s a better way for us to help you

[vast wigeon]

Hivescum has the traits for both, pickpocket offers unparalleled flexibility

[modest patio]

Are you just wanting to kill crushers with chems? Needle or chem made, are you looking to use a specific skill/keystone?

[vast wigeon]

And AIDs soaked crits and crit overkill insta kill is so clutch

Also the AIDs gun is obviously op

[modest patio]

I think enhanced desperado scum is too good. I’ve had considerably easier times on H40 since it’s released

[vast wigeon]

Or at least it feels op

[modest patio]

Pickpocket probably needs nerfed unless the class was meant to have infinite ammo

[shut tapir]

what builds utilize that well?

for aids gun

[haughty slate]

yeah the 100% ranged immunity is kind of ridiculous... as is Vulture's Dodge on certain guns that can keep it up 80% of the time

needle pistol is good on every build

melee or ranged

it requires basically no investment

[modest patio]

Also the essentially 100% melee immunity

[haughty slate]

Yeah. There's a little bit of classic Fatshark jank but I've definitely seen it help with melee immunity as well.

[modest patio]

No there is a talent for the melee

Immunity to all attacks on vulture stacks

[haughty slate]

You mean Vulture's Dodge?

Yeah it's still janky

[compact valley]

anyone got a fix for the shivs not really meleeing properly?

ill try to use my stim and it just freaks out

[haughty slate]

It generally works but I've taken hits with it on that weren't overheads

not enough for it to be a problem

because it usually kicks right back in

[haughty slate]

I think that's just an issue with the stimm/stimm crate. I've had times on my crate builds where my guy will just gently hold the case out to show the horde for a good five seconds instead of putting it on the ground.

Fatshark

[compact valley]

whats the fix in the meantime? timer mod ?

[haughty slate]

There's not really a "fix". It's a bug.

The timer mod is nice though

definitely recommend it

[compact valley]

any others for scum that are specific to them?

[haughty slate]

The other major bug was you could use stimm and then use crate and get the effects from both right now

Personally I don't abuse that one because it will feel awful once they remove it

[compact valley]

I wonder if modifying animation cancel mods would help fix it for the shivs to force reset the animation basically

[charred bronze]

oof, tried the shredder. The mauler ttk is garbage compared with the DAPs. That's a no go for me.

I keep trying new guns and returning to the DAPs for despo.

[mighty belfry]

If I was doing a long cooldown stimm, I'd do that.

Doing that interferes with short cooldown stimm timings

[haughty slate]

Shredder is better with stimm crate + blaze away + pinning fire

[mighty belfry]

Because using the actual stimm subjects you to waiting until the stimm effect is cleared for the stimm cd

[haughty slate]

DPA and Shredder are both similar in how they play but Shredder has a different build to get there

[flat mist]

Stimm supply has a 37s cooldown with max ChD and Curios

[charred bronze]

I use blaze and pinning on both

[flat mist]

So it's doable

You don't use the actual stim, you just drop a box when the stim is still cooling down

Then drop another one when stimm comes off cooldown

[haughty slate]

Perfect! Try it with stimm crate sometime. That's the major difference besides the reload time.

[flat mist]

And profit

[haughty slate]

Shredder Autopistol crits + Vulture's Dodge = knock-off Desperado all the time

[charred bronze]

what's good about it with Stimm? I have every ranged node I can possibly get in my despo build, with not a single point used on melee. Not sure what else I could do

my vodge uptime on daps is already basically all the time I'm in combat though. Not sure what the shredder offers at all, except better accuracy. Which admittedly is VASTLY better than the DAPs

[haughty slate]

Stimm Crate is HUGELY underrated. Making your stimm AoE for teammates is only part of it.

The MAJOR reason why Stimm Crate is actually better or equal to desperado on quite a few ranged builds is because it starts the cooldown on your stimm instantly. This shaves 15 seconds off the cooldown AND lets you make use of sample collector WHILE you're stimmed up like crazy.

[icy scaffold]

I feel like Vraks IAG and Agri braced are probably the best options. DAP for mobility. Shredder if you want much better accuracy.

[mighty belfry]

Ohhh I misunderstood. I've done that. Still means the crate itself isn't as consistent.

[haughty slate]

You can shave your stimm time down to about 15-20 seconds easily by the time your stimm runs out. Versus it being 75 seconds on a regular stimm once those 15 seconds are up.

It's a MASSIVE increase in stimm uptime.

[mighty belfry]

I'm trying to find a mid point between having good uptime on the actual crate while still having some decent benefits from the stimm itself

27s felt like a good sweet spot to me when I was using it.

[haughty slate]

It's definitely more gun specific. If you're running a gun with decent/good horde clear you can definitely go maxed out stimms and get the most out of sample collector.

[mighty belfry]

And 8% strength and attack speed is not half bad.

[woeful hill]

@haughty slate tried out bomb crate in my H40 run now, its a cool idea but it wasnt doing much

[haughty slate]

Bomb crate is a silly build for goofs. It's fun but definitely not optimal.

[woeful hill]

its the timing and range of it

too short

and hard to time

[haughty slate]

Yeah if it didn't take 5 friggin seconds to go off we would be cooking

[woeful hill]

plus the damage is meh

[charred bronze]

I'm sure fatshark was terrified of how out of hand bomb crate can potentially get. It just doesn't do enough though

[flat mist]

7 stacks is so mediocre

[mighty belfry]

Exactly what I was saying. It's awkward to implement.

[icy scaffold]

Does it get bigger with bolt pistol?

[haughty slate]

It's nice for crusher packs but otherwise just kind of mid

[woeful hill]

probably

havent tested

[charred bronze]

that'd be weird if it were classified as an explosion

[mighty belfry]

Tbf it does explode.

[flat mist]

If Blinders didn't have anti synergy with toxin that could be funny to combo

[haughty slate]

If you're running the chem pistol that has AoE damage, the DB shotgun in a Man-Stopper setup, or Zarona shotgun you can do a full 75 second crazy stimm and get the cooldown to about 15-20 seconds. Shredder is a bit more reliant on what you're shooting into but it actually can horde clear pretty well.

[mighty belfry]

Its actually pretty good.

[icy scaffold]

It’s actually pretty fun to combo with blinders anyways. It’s what I do on my desperado bolt pistol build. Turns blinders into mini chem nades

[haughty slate]

I've had times in dense hordes where I can double stack stimm crates with how many things I'm blasting through

[viral hedge]

Sorry yes I mean built around the chems but still a strong melle focus

[flat mist]

Do bleed kills regen blackout

[haughty slate]

Gotcha. Yeah that's easy because the adrenaline keystone is crap. You would just do a normal melee build with rampage and take chem dependency at the end.

[mighty belfry]

I've done 75s stimms too. Main advantage of a shorter stim is taking into account the times where you won't be getting enough kills to complement sample collector

[viral hedge]

Thanks my guy

[icy scaffold]

Probably not. I don’t use the bleed on it, just the extra AoE and bonus stagger damage since it’s flinging everyone to the floor every shot anyways

[mighty belfry]

And because it's shorter, it's also just far easier to stack in those heated situations.

[main trellis]

Maybe you haven’t felt much impact from it?
Due to teammates/terrain/modifiers/playtime with the build?

[mighty belfry]

It's more about having the better crate uptime than the buffs honestly.

[haughty slate]

Yeah, it's nicer when packs aren't as dense but in general once you're in auric maelstrom/havoc 40 territory the full 75s stimm will pay for itself by helping you plow through hordes more.

[mighty belfry]

I was running it in havoc. Felt fine to me.

Because you can stack them so easily.

[flat mist]

15s is 80% off... so 40 toxin kills, 53 half half or 80 non toxin in 15 seconds?!? Hardly ever going to happen

[mighty belfry]

And again.

It's not only the buffs I'm worried about.

[icy scaffold]

4 stacks of chem dependency means you get a free stimm supply between cooldowns for your maxed out stim. So there’s that.

[mighty belfry]

I want the actual corruption immunity too.

[viral hedge]

Last question. Is there a more useful chem lab? Like I know we have variety but what seems to be the best layout so far. Im running "spur V" and wildfire V with rampage

[haughty slate]

I'm sure it's fine but having attack speed + reload AND strength + crit stacked is worth a lot more to me than the tox healing in most cases, especially because I still have the crate up all the time for that.

[woeful hill]

was playing mostly solo, hab dreyko (best map for it).

[mighty belfry]

I've ran full 75s in havoc

It's nice. Until you run into the situation where you don't get it in time and the actual ability cooldown isn't done yet either.

[flat mist]

Do whatever you like, but you need either a cooldown stimm or chem dependancy. Never leave home without atleast one of them.

[haughty slate]

Happens all the time. Go kill the small poxwalker groups in the psykanium with it up. You'll hit around 15 on those setups. Hordes in maelstroms and havoc give you plenty to kill.

[mighty belfry]

And that was mattering a lot in Rotten Armor

Because the hordes are so hp stacked.

[haughty slate]

Yeah rotten armor is a bit different... Hate that modifier

I see where you're coming from there

[main trellis]

Try with a team; this is a team based game after all

[dim moth]

I like rotten armor a lot but I would like to ask the fatshark devs why the fuck they made the DR apply to melee too

[woeful hill]

how would crate bomb change if I played with my team?

[main trellis]

Its easier than before cause dr actualy works

[haughty slate]

Crate bomb is clunky and generally bad. You don't need to defend yourself Ainz.

It's a fun build, but it's a meme build

[dim moth]

but no one shot makes me MAD

[icy scaffold]

With randoms? They’d probably kill everything on your crate before it blows up.

[woeful hill]

I'm just confused by him

[mighty belfry]

The issue is that it's counterintuitive to playing with a team

[main trellis]

Team can funnel enemies into your crate ex; taunt

[woeful hill]

I was funneling the entire event spawns

on top floor on dreyko

[mighty belfry]

Because you have to sometimes place the crate in a spot where it's awkward for the team to actually benefit from it at all.

[woeful hill]

I had full agro

[dim moth]

have to?

[main trellis]

Its like a grenade but ability; i think it has potential

[mighty belfry]

Given how you have to time the crate and account for the aoe

It's just not good.

[haughty slate]

A grenade with a 5 second cooldown limited range and deals damage over time is not anywhere near as powerful as the Hive Scum's actual abilities

It's fun. You can run it.

[dim moth]

well it is also corruption immunity

which is a pretty big deal in current havoc rotation

permanent corruption immunity for the whole team means blight spreads doesn't exist

better yet it means blight spreads is a beneficial modifier since you can slide real fast on it

[haughty slate]

If you feel you want it in the current havoc modifiers, go for it

but that's a niche scenario

[main trellis]

Not good for an average joe who does not utilize strategy for sure
Its the case of ‚thinking mans ability’

[tight musk]

I use stimm supply with the bone saw and I have maxed out stimm, and I get the stimm back about every 30 seconds or so, I haven't really timed it. The bigger the horde, the faster you get it back.

[haughty slate]

Right, just coordinate with your taunt ogryn for him to funnel all the crusher mobs into it

ez

[eager reef]

imagine coordinating.

[main trellis]

I agree on radius; if the node would increase radius then it would be better
Still; for elites & bosses its good

Just time it

[haughty slate]

Yes, because my havoc 40 teammates are going to switch to the taunt ogryn in their back pocket for me.

Everyone has one

[main trellis]

Think

[spiral horizon]

crate needs a larger radius

I dump that shit and realise I've slid past it without picking up the buff lmao

and so I must do the backslide of shame

[haughty slate]

I know how the ability works. You put it down, you bring stuff into it, preferably at a choke. It's just not worth taking over the other options.

[mighty belfry]

It's bad even with that in mind

[haughty slate]

I think it's better to say "it's a cool idea, but needs a buff" than to pretend it's good you just need to coordinate with taunt ogryns in the current havoc modifiers

[tight musk]

Problem with the exploding crate is that if you buff up your team and push forward to kill more things while the buff is going, it's going to explode into nothing. And if you really need that explosion right now, you will still have to wait 5 seconds before it goes off. A lot can happen in 5 seconds.

And if you just use the crate as a low cooldown bomb, you're not running any good buffs on it.

[mighty belfry]

3m aoe and 5s cooldown is just not ideal.

[drifting heron]

Its also like 7 stacks right

Which is a needler shot

[livid raven]

it's a needler head/critshot

[mighty belfry]

No amount of "thinking" can make those drawbacks condonable.

[main trellis]

Or pay attention to enemy trajectory - its not hard to observe the enemy & utilize it to your advantage
Unless you just leroy jenkins it all the time - then ofc it won’t be good for ya

[spiral horizon]

tbh you can do this with the chem nades anyway and it's overall a lot stronger (granted you then have to scrounge up grenades)

[livid raven]

i dunno i don't think a blinder every 15 seconds is a good ability

[icy scaffold]

Yea, or you can just spam the AoE needle mode and get the same results faster

[drifting heron]

with less effort

[main trellis]

Like what? Its an extra nade that recharges with broken dot

[mighty belfry]

A blinder is better lol

[drifting heron]

On a better build

[livid raven]

well true, you don't have to time it

[dim moth]

yeah it's not

which is why I just run a full stimm

cooldown is short enough anyways

[compact valley]

question for yall, why am i seeing that tac axe is good when shivs is just that much stronger ? Bait weapon ?

[livid raven]

one can be good while the other can be much stronger

[dim moth]

a full stimm for you and your whole team every 30-ish seconds is better value than crate bomb

[drifting heron]

this is like the Terminus Warrant discussion

Yeah its good

[spiral horizon]

I'ma mess with full attack speed and strength stim next time I play, just to see how it feels compared to running attack speed+cdr

[livid raven]

crate bomb is also like

4 talent points

[drifting heron]

But it requires so much upkeep that it practically isn't worth it

[tight musk]

God forbid 2 weapons be good to use on a class.

[haughty slate]

I don't have time to pause combat every 15 seconds to place a mine that I might have to move off of. If you're playing in Damnation, yeah, place it where the enemy is moving. In actual high-end content, you have to constantly reposition depending on what the game is throwing at you.

[gilded acorn]

hey everyone, this might be a stupid question, but do stimm supply crates stack? for example if 2 hive scum bring a stimm crate both with cooldown and someone walks through it, do you get both cooldown benefits from both crates?

[dim moth]

multiple weapons can be good at the same time

[compact valley]

sir toilet knife is the best

[dim moth]

ptentially for different reasons

[spiral horizon]

tac axe is good is why people are saying tac axe is good

[woeful hill]

lol

[spiral horizon]

shivs are stronger sure, but variety is nice

[mighty belfry]

Lol

[woeful hill]

its funny how the axes are stronger then all 3 unique weapons on scum (bar chainaxe)

[spiral horizon]

and shivs get real boring real fast for me if that's all I run

[drifting heron]

Tac axe has pretty unrivaled horde clear on scum, excellent crit synergy, and is a very safe weapon

[mighty belfry]

Tac axe is amazing on scum what the heck

[vast yoke]

and mind you tac axe doesn't even work with the attack speed per stamina talent, if that ever gets fixed it will gain a minimum of 20% attack speed

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-dog-silly-dog-propeller-hat-propeller-hat-dog-gif-4764495627579170054

[vast yoke]

it's just that good without it already

[dim moth]

chain axe my beloved

[spiral horizon]

also rashad with hyperviolence gets real fucking silly

[woeful hill]

Caxe is probably best weapon on scum

but it sure is boring

[haughty slate]

Except it's not a broken dot and the grenade is in a small range and has a 5 second arm time and can't be thrown. I'm not going to continue this. I enjoy my crate mine build. It's fun. Calling it equally strong to Hive Scum's other ability options is just wrong though.

[viral hedge]

What are the best blessing and perks for the needle pistol?

[spiral horizon]

it feels like 2023 all over again

[main trellis]

Well; if you have no meaningful CC ofc you have to move more but with more strategy & CC; shit will be better

[haughty slate]

"broken dot" = 1/6th of a Crusher's health

[spiral horizon]

oh also Hsword scum is a fucking blast if any of you lot haven't tried it yet

[drifting heron]

Scum doesn't have good CC

Its oops all damage

You need friends to CC for you

[haughty slate]

I'm sure you and your 3 taunt ogryn teammates can make it work. Still doesn't make it good.

[tight musk]

I want to try Achlys combat axe on scum, but I need to upgrade it before I take it into combat.

[haughty slate]

[drifting heron]

I just kinda hate the movesets

[spiral horizon]

yea in terms of CC you've got uhhh, blinders which are very short radius and then that one rampage node which is decent but that's not exactly consistent CC uptime at all

[drifting heron]

Which is sad because HS is a really good weapon

[tight musk]

Heavy sword has 2 attacks - heavy 1 and special, repeat.

[spiral horizon]

you should learn to love the movesets

[haughty slate]

why aren't you coordinating with your teammates to tell them to tell them to CC the enemy crusher horde into your tiny stimm pack radius for 5 seconds so it can deal 1/6 of their health over time?

[spiral horizon]

run Hsword 7 and become god

[haughty slate]

you really need to strategize

or just have your vet throw a single krak grenade

[drifting heron]

Relevant

[main trellis]

Boi; we NEVER have a tauntgryn in our matches

[warm axle]

dual stub pistols is so fun, with max spread reduction and reload speed. could be better, but im comfortable with them in aurics at least.
if they were to be buffed, what would you like changed?

[main trellis]

[haughty slate]

Sounds like you need to coordinate more with your teams

[main trellis]

accuracy & meanigful special (aka faster to execute one)

[limber cradle]

Wdym

I hit them and then they stop moving

[drifting heron]

True

[warm axle]

their game design around ranged weapons not have spammed specials, and then making one that semi encourages it is odd.

i’d change it to spin both and line them up for a double shot.

[main trellis]

double shot sounds nice!
in the meantime; combine run & gun together with sticky hands to have great accuracy; as for second blessing i run sustained fire - most consistent

[warm axle]

yes, makes them laser accurate.

[main trellis]

and boi it is glorious to see it work

[haughty slate]

I've seen it. I've had a good crate explode and see the kill feed light up. The only issue is I can just run another ability and have that happen all the time instead of in the perfect circumstance where my teammates are CC'ing packs of specials in a choke in a 3m radius and holding them for 5 seconds.

[main trellis]

true but then again why would you play or use other things over what ppl consider for example meta?
i know;
Cause its fun to mix things up & see it work

[eager reef]

crowbar is the best weapon on scum bc i like the sound it makes when i hit stuff with it

[haughty slate]

This conversation was never about it being fun. It was about "Is it as good as his other abilities"

I agreed with "it's fun" several times already

[tight musk]

Stimm crate explosion is just not really worth running, imo. I'd rather just use the crate for buffs and put that one point somewhere else.

[grizzled mulch]

You know what hive scum needs? Dual shotguns

[pliant violet]

Does anyone else here use the Armory Exchange browser addon? Haven't used it in a while and it doesn't seem to be working right now.

[spiral horizon]

I fucking love the vibe of crowbar, I fucking hate the sticky attacks and the weapon does need a buff otherwise

[grizzled mulch]

And a bat/club

[main trellis]

i wonder if someone made a hl1 hit sound for it; its possible

[limber cradle]

Ive been waiting for that mod to pop up tbh

[eager reef]

i want someoen to make a mod that replaces the audio with the L4D2 frying pan audio

[main trellis]

lil carapace adm buff & maaaybe hammerblow as a blessing choice & it will be peak

[limber cradle]

106 ass gameplay

[main trellis]

ayyy; forgot about that iconic thing

[charred bronze]

it does, we thought it didn't because it doesn't work with equipped stamina in the psychanium. And even then only for some players

[eager reef]

i could never

[main trellis]

I love this

Billgryn

[limber cradle]

I still gotta figure out a new Og name

[eager reef]

new ogryn VA is perfect for it

since the VA comes off as much older

[mighty belfry]

Rampage shout is pretty good CC and blinders are nice

But yeah as much as I want to like crate bomb

It's lacking in areas.

[spiral horizon]

yeah you get a little bit of CC as a treat but you ain't doing arbi shenans

[spiral horizon]

lacking in area, even

[charred bronze]

Shivs aren't "that much better". It's a continuum that allows you to prioritize what you want to be good at.

As far as I can tell (and I ain't an expert but I've messed with them all):
Shiv mk I have the best single target on crushers, and middling horde clear.
Good horde clear on the mk III and awkward and mid single target vs crushers. (I could be mistaken here about the mk III, but I was struggling to get it working for me).
Shiv special is a cool instant ranged option for specials or softening up crushers.

mk IV taxe has almost as good single target on crushers as shivs, and better horde clear.
mk VII taxe has among the best mixed horde clear that Scum can get short of a h sword, with better than average single target on crushers, which the h sword sucks at. It blends everything else with light attacks, esp with Rampage active.
I didn't like the moveset on the mk II and don't run it.
Taxe special staggers pretty much everything, can trivialize fighting ragers, and can even stagger a crusher out of an overhead if it's not already on stagger cooldown.

It's about what you want, but the taxe is an incredible weapon on rampage scum.

[echo plaza]

@high gull login

[limber cradle]

TAxe would be better if I could also throw it

[charred bronze]

I haven't really used it since the big itemization pass mostly resolved gearing challenges

[charred bronze]

oh man, that'd be sick. I'm honestly kind of shocked they didn't go that direction with it. It's a very tomahawk thing to do

a tiny axe getting one of the best activated, free staggers in the game was a choice

[main trellis]

Bardin throwing axes moment

YES PLS

[limber cradle]

Give it me

[charred bronze]

New scum exclusive weapon: dual taxes!

Special is throwing like bardin, vibes are like sword and mace or that shit that Saltzy had, I forget. Or was it sword and mace for both Kruber and Saltzy?