hivescum-class

[mighty belfry]

Float kinda overrated

[lapis raft]

i dont want to drop crit tox because the refreshing of needle tox on demand is too high value imo

[vast yoke]

yea

[mighty belfry]

Uptime is just not as good for the investment

[vast yoke]

getting an on-dodge proc is hard in melee, its rlly easy on despo builds

like you'll dodge but you won't get a dodge proc

cus to get one you gotta dodge way too early for comfort usually

quite annoying

[tropic crag]

i find i get alot of procs all the time just in my automatic movement... its not constant uptime but its uptime for something that happens without me trying... but i think its a playstyle thing and how you fight in melee

if you're more vt2 style you'll get more accidental dodges i think

[idle ore]

what's your uptime %

[tropic crag]

its still not amazing tho

[vast yoke]

i found dropping it on my crit focused box cutter build didnt rlly drop my dps much at all

and hypercrit is a huge boon in clear time on cknife/box cutters

[lapis raft]

well im knife and on knife i kinda always wants to dodge back before stuff even happens because its so close ranged

[vast yoke]

try it out for a game

:P

i thought it'd suck losing it too

but it basically wasnt noticable for me

[tropic crag]

i don't run anything to measure such a thing but a noticeable amount of triggers when i look at my buff bar... i'm not saying its actually good just that on some playstyles it will just happen

[lapis raft]

i mean i know my uptime on float like a butterfly and i know its terrible

[idle ore]

it probably is less than you think

[lapis raft]

before the dodge changes it was like 30%-ish

[idle ore]

its around 30%

[tropic crag]

thats like 3 times the amount i would have guessed so thats a win

[lapis raft]

with the dodge changes it went up to like 40-50% sometimes, but sometimes still 30%

[vast yoke]

i like close ranged damage on dodge mainly cus it actually scales tox dot too but thats the niche application

[tropic crag]

oh so its like 5 times what i thought lol

i was just going off of when i actually looked down and how not often that was

[idle ore]

if you have low expectations you'll never be disappointed

[lapis raft]

well quick and deadly has same uptime as float like butterfly so if im not grabbing float then im for sure not grabbing quick either

[tropic crag]

i don't even think they are low, i expected a free bonus when i read the node that would happen sometimes, i got free bonus sometimes

[lapis raft]

tertium at least scales stuff like hypercrit always at that point

[tropic crag]

i don't actually run either that much if ever on most builds tho

[lapis raft]

well float like a butterfly is kinda selling point of big crit scum but yea not something you can rly rely on that much

[tropic crag]

like on most builds i go tertium welcome>precision violence>burst of energy, then straight down more or less for melee builds

[lapis raft]

i wish this one wasnt pathing node ngl would be first thing i drop

even though its very good node other scum nodes are better

[tropic crag]

they probably put it there to force people into not going full damage like always

because scum is really better when you bulk up their survivablity since they have enough build in damage

[lapis raft]

could've put HCB there instead then

[tropic crag]

no

HCB is so good that it should be deep in the melee build

[lapis raft]

yea maybe but its also a lot more in theme as forced pathing node than gang tough

[zenith pagoda]

Normally these are split into two nodes, so both for just 1 talent point is great

[tropic crag]

? it has direct synergy with the downside of rampage, its not a pathing node at all its identity is part of the rampage build

[lapis raft]

yea just shows you how good the other scum nodes are

[tropic crag]

yeah its an insanly high value node for a forced one

[lapis raft]

no i mean look at other pathing nodes on other classes, they are both strong and also have strong identity with the actual class

[zenith pagoda]

Depends on the build, my non toxin ranged build has all the talents it needs and I'm not really needing more

[lapis raft]

hcb is def not rampage specific either

[lapis raft]

yea i guess thats fair, on melee i feel like theres always something good to click

[eager zephyr]

What’s the general consensus on this class?

Seems fun af

[zenith pagoda]

I lot of people are saying melee scum is great and I did try it properly, but I found it only really excelled against bosses, because they are easy to hit and this talent allows you to have good uptime

I think it's definitely better than ranged scum for bosses and crushers, but for everything, ranged is better

[spiral horizon]

very strong, you will die if you misstep though

[lapis raft]

most fun i've had is with stimm crate on scum so far

[eager zephyr]

Hell yeah

[tender marten]

float like a butterly, also die like a butterfly

[eager zephyr]

What’s the build for shivs needle pistol? That’s I’ve seen running around in havoc I believe

[lapis raft]

but stimm crate setup is not rly topping any damage charts other than boss damage charts :d

but its very useful tho

[zenith pagoda]

Stim crate is best ability, apart from when there's lots of bosses, rampage takes the lead there

[lapis raft]

just rampage + adrenaline or rampage + chem dep generally, or stimm crate + chem dep

[tropic crag]

i was saying that its def designed with rampage in mind, when rampage ends it toggles on the 20% damage boost and you can use other nodes around HCB to help safely keep your stam at 0% while stacking adren and HCB... yeah it works elsewhere but has the most baked in value when paired with rampage

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah that talent is pretty counterintuitive, surely you want more DR the lower stamina you are

[vast yoke]

HCB is wonderful. i love getting 20% DR from one talent point

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah but the melee DMG part is kinda pointless

Everyone wants to keep high stamina

[tropic crag]

...no it isn't at all

[tropic crag]

and not when you have a button you can press that gives you a damage amp that then runs out and deletes your stam for a second... then you have a damage amp that procs another damage amp and you can proc a 3rd damage amp while doing that

you don't need high stam to fight, you only need a sliver and that comes back instantly, the hard part is keeping your stam empty over keeping it filled

[zenith pagoda]

If you try attacking shit after rampage ends in h40 you getting dropped immediately

In melee

[tropic crag]

no i dont

[zenith pagoda]

Send a clip

[tropic crag]

how does the stam help you? why are you blocking in havoc as a first action?

you need stam for shoves and you only need a sliver for that

and that sliver comes back a fraction of a second after it hits 0

[zenith pagoda]

?? You lose 20% damage reduction and also the extra damage taken from rampage

[tropic crag]

why are you taking hits in that fraction of a seconds downtime

its barely any 0 stam time

[zenith pagoda]

What

It reduces stamina regen

It doesn't come back instantly

[tropic crag]

wait are people not running 3 stam recharges so they can play on empty tank like you would on full tank?

[tender marten]

just dodge once with regained posture

shrimple

[zenith pagoda]

That doesn't give back your full DMG reduction

[tropic crag]

or just dodge once, by the time you're done dodging its recharging

[tropic crag]

why... why do you need it?

[zenith pagoda]

Why do you need damage reduction on a glass cannon?

[eager reef]

https://tenor.com/view/moonwalk-gif-trending-dance-michael-jackson-gif-18482215

[tender marten]

why is his neck doing that

[tropic crag]

with zero stam my build can tank 2 overheads, 2 sniper shots, or 3 bursters in a row and be fine... if i am getting hit that much i didn't die from 20% less dr

[zenith pagoda]

MJ built different

[eager reef]

lore accurate hive scum

[zenith pagoda]

Are you playing uprising?

[tropic crag]

like i got untouchable for the first time on hivescum face tanking in auric

because the toughness regen is so intense on scum that taking damage isn't a thing that really happens

unless i play really really dumb

[zenith pagoda]

Man go play havoc

If you think DMG reduction is pointless

[tropic crag]

i do, and when i die in there it won't be because of the 20%... if i want DR on the scum i will pump toughness (which i did) because it gives me more DR than relying soley on HCB

like i LOVE defenses

[spiral horizon]

I'm running the DR talent because DR is always nice for sure but also like, that's a 20% damage boost on zero stam

[tropic crag]

but HCB 20% damage amp is great value

[tender marten]

im a filthy blockmaxxer

[vast wigeon]

A little bit of damage reduction is pointless, having a lot or enough is the difference between being able to stand in a cloudy bubble or not

[tender marten]

3x block efficiency keeps me blocking discord chats all day long

whoever keks me is blocked

UR DONE

[tropic crag]

if i block and it wasn't because i was mid push when the block happened... i've messed up dearly and i'm about to die

[lapis raft]

well dr makes recovery stronger it doesnt rly have anti synergy with it

[spiral horizon]

I mean 20% DR is good to have

[eager reef]

hear me out

[tender marten]

baby, im already there too

3x stam efficiency always

[vast yoke]

me on september 10 2025

[lapis raft]

and yea 20% dr is a lot of dr

[vast wigeon]

Very strong in stripped down hive scum

Borderline op

[tender marten]

very nice lmao

[tropic crag]

100%, i'm not at all arguing that the dr is bad, i'm just saying that i think HCB was at the bottom of the tree because its made with the rampage synergies in mind (thats how i think i accidently started this whole talk )

it turned into talking about the merits of the damage amp tho

i should make a shivs build finally

[vast yoke]

honestly kinda wish crowbar had all or nothing so I could meme tf out of HCB

[lapis raft]

well hcb is best mitigation node on tree for setups that actually stay at full stam so i just click it on everything

[tropic crag]

go full gordan freeman on them

[tender marten]

i wont say the damage amp is irrelevant on hive scum but it's probably the last reason im taking it

[tropic crag]

i probably wouldn't take it on non rampage builds myself because like... yeah if you pump toughness the DR isn't as direly needed

but also if you do take it then thats also fine because it is good

[tender marten]

ive never used its damage 'potential' in any breakpoint calculation because the amount of time you spend at an actual 0 stamina is probably in the range of seconds over a full match

[vast yoke]

DR gets only better and better with more toughness and more DR tho

[tropic crag]

i'm chronically out of stam on all builds, i played too much vt2 to not pushstab everything

[vast yoke]

that's fair lmao

[tender marten]

yea but on scum it is actually tiring and difficult to stay that way

some push attacks dont even come out fast enough to happen before your regen has kicked in

[tropic crag]

yeah which is why i rely on rampage and like the wind to keep me there if i think i need it, i only use the HCB damage amp to bridge the gap between my rampage and my stim

[lapis raft]

well its generic dr right so it should work for both hp and toughness damage, that stat is not that common

[tender marten]

yea

HCB and Rampage together is already pretty good survivability

[vast yoke]

a hawk too? uhh so that just happened

[tropic crag]

yeah its good either way, i'm just saying that i feel like it gets the most value on rampage builds, its still value on other things but i usually would take other nodes myself on non rampage builds is all

because yeah, DR is one of the strongest stats in Tide games

[tender marten]

the real secret is burst of energy maxing

[tropic crag]

burst of energy is so good its not funny lol

[vast yoke]

and power, which was so scarce in vt2

yet it's bloody everywhere here

[tropic crag]

power has less impact than power did in vt2 at least... yeah it is everywhere tho

[spiral horizon]

what happens when you need to make enough talents to use up 30 points and you only have a handful of stats to work around

[tropic crag]

yeah theres only so many things each node can do

[spiral horizon]

and for some reason someone before release decided most weapons can get access to a cheeky +30% power or even more through blessings

[tender marten]

some stats have been criminally underutilized tbf

or i should say had

[tropic crag]

lol it made more sense with the older trees and stuff

[tender marten]

like blocking was gathering dust as a mechanic until the arby dropped

[tropic crag]

blocking in tide games has always been a bit of a noob trap outside of saving yourself from a fatal mistake, needin to rely on being attacked first is just not great in these games

i watched for so many years of new players having to get the advice "you're blocking way too much" or "don't block unless is the only option left" in vt2

[spiral horizon]

blocking defo got a lot more mileage in vt2 just due to block cost reduction being easily accessible

and other stats weren't really worth running over it

[tender marten]

also being able to block overheads

kinda the big one

[tropic crag]

and i spent years telling people it was a noob trap lol, if you can attack, push, or dodge they are all waaaaaay better options

[spiral horizon]

like you could run both attack speed and crit chance on a weapon but then your block is gonna break pretty often

[zealous ravine]

all class trees nowadays wanna do is add perfect block conditions +cleave stats eat hot chip and lie

[tropic crag]

(unless you blocked using push attacks, you could block on zero stam with a push attack and not get staggered)

[tender marten]

people way underrate block regardless, hive scum's delay + completely unreasonable stam regen rate means you can block almost indefinitely with something like the crowbar

not even factoring in your stim's baked in stamina cost reduction

[zealous ravine]

funnily enough is that they do lie the only thing im unsure of is hot chip

[tender marten]

it's not about holding block and never attacking, it's just about having another damage mitigation resource that isn't exlusively dodging

[spiral horizon]

yea I mean that's an option but you're gonna be sitting on zero stam then which is a bit iffy if you're swarmed

[tropic crag]

its that it doesn't do anything besides at best keep the situation the same and usually makes it worse because you'd stopped controling the flow and shape of the problem you're fighting

[tropic crag]

no, you can keep doing it every time you have half a stam bar, lol i have waaaaaay to many hours playing on constantly zero stam... i still do tbh, the main problem in dt is when i go to push bursters and forget that i don't have stam

so now adays i need to tell myself "save some for the burster"

[zealous ravine]

my game plan is to run to the poxburster run out of stamina and die nowadays

[eager reef]

if i block something it;s on accident

[tropic crag]

DT dodges are better so blocking does happen less tho

[tropic crag]

this is the way

[spiral horizon]

I have a shitload of hours in VT2, I've always found running around on zero stam to be kinda iffy unless you're playing a high mobility weapon with more than 2-3 dodges

[tropic crag]

i basically only use great weapons in vt2

[spiral horizon]

though mind you most of those hours are at like 200-300 ping

and also a lot of modded realm which is a whole different ball game

[tropic crag]

so i could usually just bully my way out of problems

yeah modded is silly

[spiral horizon]

but yea like, there is a window between blocking and pushing where you can defo get block broken

[tropic crag]

yeah there are moments where you are vulnerable... at that point you gotta either surge away from the problem or hope your hp has enough in the tank to eat the mistake

[mighty belfry]

There's one issue with this tbh

Scum requires you to be constantly engaged for toughness regen except for one means

Which is Adrenaline's toughness node

[spiral horizon]

yee and most classes are beefy enough to hit trade some

[tropic crag]

its why i take like the wind, helps me live that slayer lifestyle

[mighty belfry]

Its strong regen. But it's situational and that situation sometimes won't arise when you need it to.

[tropic crag]

but yeah if someone shoots my engage target when i'm traveling i will fall over which is why i judge anyone who shoots into melee like that harshly

they are the only bad players

[tropic crag]

honestly it feels like slayer and ogryn... both of them feel unkillable when stuck into a fight but if they are just outside of the fight they can fall over fast.... scum feels like that

[mighty belfry]

Scum's regen

Very ironically

Is comparable to ogryn's.

[tropic crag]

and slayers tbh

slayer temp health regen i mean

[kind mist]

You do get large regen just for getting shot, and the second wind on breaking.

[tender marten]

especially getting shot

[tropic crag]

honestly that one feels more like a win more node, because its not gonna save you from being shot to death but if you're doing great and dodging well then the ping of damage here and there just helps you win more

[spiral horizon]

cheeky 30% regen for getting shot yea

[tender marten]

one stam per bullet

and that 30% regen usually reprocs immediately lol

imagine if getting t-broken put that on a cooldown

[spiral horizon]

the effect does cancel if you get broken

[tropic crag]

honestly i think anyone who has played the scum at level 30 and calls them glass canons are probably bad at the game at this point... because they are canons made of hard stuff tbh, just not a tank

[tender marten]

but what if!

[spiral horizon]

but then you've probably procced burst of energy so it can start back up again on the next hit lmao

[tropic crag]

yeah, as long as you're doing things and fighting with the scum you can kind of just keep going

[spiral horizon]

and like BoE having a 10s cooldown is really not that long a wait

[tender marten]

scum spoils me with its 99% stun immunity uptime

[spiral horizon]

if you're getting t-broken multiple times in 10 seconds then that's pretty rough going no matter what lmao

[tropic crag]

should i make a chainaxe build next or finally sit down and use the shivs for real

[tender marten]

chaxe12 on scum is pretty funny

[spiral horizon]

use the shivs, they get boring after 2 or 3 runs

[tropic crag]

lol yeah its why i keep putting them off lol

but i also found dual axe slayer boring

[spiral horizon]

so far my most fun weapons have been crowbar and hsword

although I fucking hate the stickies on crowbar

[tropic crag]

i've been liking the heavy sword yeah

[spiral horizon]

hsword feels real nice

[tender marten]

its the wind down when you miss a sticky that fucken sends me

[spiral horizon]

I just hate having my camera janked around

[haughty badger]

does anyone know if the cooldown reduction from special stim is supposed to provide cooldown to duration abilities (rampage and desperado) while they're active? cause sometimes it does in the meat grinder, and sometimes it doesnt

[tender marten]

you go to hook something and a teammate bonks it out of your hit and suddenly your guy spends the next second and a half staring at air while four ragers turn you into a mince pie

[tropic crag]

as long as you have an answer for carapace

like it can kill crushers.... but its not gonna be a great time

[supple torrent]

did some runs on zealot and man scum mobility really hit different

[tropic crag]

threw out my back going from scum to oggy from the speed differences

[spiral horizon]

my answer for crushers is hope I have rampage up at the time lmao (or needle pistol I suppose but that's BOOORING)

[tropic crag]

(same tbh and i sometimes feel bad doing it)

[supple torrent]

jesus christ man thats like going from a porsche to a mobility scooter

[spiral horizon]

going from competitive F1 to competitive power walking

[low harbor]

lol

[spiral horizon]

that do be hyperviolent

[mighty belfry]

Thats true. And it does play out well in regular games.

[supple torrent]

Crusher looking at that overkill damage knowing hes next

[mighty belfry]

Also can I just say

Ramping backstabs is underrated

[low harbor]

it's pretty niche

[mighty belfry]

It is.

But you'd be surprised how much Nimble enables it because it's not that hard to dodge around to get to an enemy's back

Even getting to two stacks is already a pretty generous damage increase.

Also mutants

[low harbor]

nimble + shiv can use it

but very inconsistently

and it basically gets denied by large mixed horde waves with ogryns

[mighty belfry]

Blackouts B)

[low harbor]

that's a lot of effort to cope

[mighty belfry]

Works for me.

[low harbor]

if it didn't reset stacks on non-backstab hits it'd be better

[mighty belfry]

It'd probably be outright op if it didn't.

Up to 50% melee strength is no joke lmao

I mean that's rampage's strength bonus.

[low harbor]

backstabs are just kinda niche

[mighty belfry]

Maybe if it diminished stacks by one instead of outright depleting them?

[low harbor]

yea, cud do

[mighty belfry]

It's very funny throwing a blackout in a scab horde to loop around and start doing stupid amounts of melee damage because of how fast the stacks proc on light attacks with shivs

I'll give it that

[tender marten]

i want it to be ranged instead

so badly

[eager reef]

https://tenor.com/view/stab-stab-stab-knife-cut-cut-you-gif-7491517982302945204

[mighty belfry]

Also. If you happen to have a taunt ogryn on your team, it's even better

[final temple]

I mean. at that point I could just boomstick and be done with the horde.

[lapis raft]

if you are doing this then you should probs be doing the threat reduction as well, from zealot backstab builds it makes backstabs very reliable even when its annoying otherwise

[elfin jay]

had a chorus zealot who was permanently behind the rest of the team compare myself (soyker) and 2 hive scum to "herding cats"

everyone played even better after that (not that there were issues to begin with) to prove his dumbass wrong

(he got downed at the start of the mission by a crusher but had to complain about everyone else)

[tropic crag]

anyone who cares about their team that much is probably not great at the game and is shifting blame onto others lol

because like... most of the time all you need from your team is that they stay standing up and they get the dog off you or whatever

[eager reef]

oho, im close to 1k missions played

[elfin jay]

if u run chorus i don't think u can complain about anything

[eager reef]

wild i got almost 1.5k on picking up downed players vs 996 missions played

[tropic crag]

soon you will become a true dark tide

[eager reef]

closing on 1k hours too

lol

[thorny ginkgo]

i love playing as Charlie Sheen

[dawn portal]

I too enjoy drugs

fellow kids

[eager reef]

wait i actually broke it today

[grand jewel]

🗣️

[eager reef]

https://tenor.com/view/rat-dance-gif-4982762588848687194

[rustic zinc]

Anyone know if suppressed counts as staggered too?

[hybrid oyster]

I don't believe so

staggered is when they're like knocked over or off to the side

supressed is when they're like ducking

[rustic zinc]

Well any stagger is a stagger (hitstun, big hit stun, full knockdown) as far as I know, but suppression does feel like a distinct cower animation, and I never knew if it counted.

[hybrid oyster]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe they're different states

[thorny ginkgo]

chem depend or frenzy with a rampage shiv build?

[tropic crag]

suppression can also be happening while they are shooting at you...unless i'm mixing up keywords

[rustic zinc]

Just putting together an autopistol build and realized since I often indirectly suppress things maybe the +15% vs. stagger would count. Probably doesn't (I suspect you're right) but I dunno

[tropic crag]

i'm like 99% sure it doesn't count as staggered

[hybrid oyster]

yea, I don't think it does

[rustic zinc]

Dependency feels most consistent to me.

...but that could be the drugs talking.

[lyric galleon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yNOgWLJtdU

[thorny ginkgo]

do you just run one thing on stim for the lowest cooldown? to max out the crit chance fast

[eager reef]

i actually prefer dependancy

[rustic zinc]

Nah.

You basically want to run the max stimm you can RELIABLY use under the 60 second cooldown.

[thorny ginkgo]

ah ok

[thorny ginkgo]

i have this

[hybrid oyster]

I'm lazy so I just use 3 stacks instead of 4

[eager reef]

i run crit and attack speed on top of rampage, then bound light attack to scroll wheel down

[rustic zinc]

So if you kill a lot of enemies, getting tons of 1%/2% cooldown reductions then you can AT LEAST run a 45 second stimm (maybe even 1-2 nodes higher than that)

[thorny ginkgo]

ok ok

[eager reef]

you can also get a hugfe chunk back jsut dumping a mag of blue needler

esp at horde spawns

[rustic zinc]

I suspect Finesse might be better, but I've honestly never crunched the math on that one.

Basically with all the crit from the tree and class and weapon, your crit is already VERY high on its own, so an extra +15% isn't moving the needle much, but adding +35% finesse during stimm (which increases crit and weakspot damage) might be more overall damage

[eager reef]

i liek crit bc im gambling hypercrit and haymaker

[thorny ginkgo]

i understand.. now this may be a dumb question but is it best to pop the stim before or after rampage

[tropic crag]

this is a meme build i could see running lol

[eager reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8cJmI7FS5o

it's super fun

i cant stop running it bc of how goofy it is

[tropic crag]

i could see it having "why nothing die" moments

[eager reef]

best part? it holds up even when you dont instagib shit

i 1v1 a demonhost then a plague ogryn easily with jsut melee

but i traded out pickpocket for crit toxin

bc it makes damage more consitent when you don evaporate stuff

[rustic zinc]

For stimm

• if 2 or fewer dependency stacks, use Stimm on cooldown
• if 3+ dependency stacks, use it before combat
• the only exception is if your 3rd stack is about to decay to a 2 -- then you'd use it immediately to avoid decay

For rampage, I use it anytime I'm in combat basically unless the mission has shown a tendency towards Crusher packs (where I'd save it for the extra +25% rending)

[tropic crag]

yeah i mean... scum does damage even when its not near its max potential... i'll probably copy the main idea of the build soon for fun

[thorny ginkgo]

thank you

[tropic crag]

because its a goofy idea

[eager reef]

it's fun for the sake of fun. does fine in auric, no idea about havic bc i dont play it

(no reaason to)

[tropic crag]

honestly it's probably workable in havoc, you don't really need optimal optimal... but yeah its not gonna be the best choice

like worse meme builds have made it through havoc

[thorny ginkgo]

can i replace uncanny with precog or flesh tearer? this is a rampage chem depend build

[dim moth]

see this is logical and makes sense

however

consider the funny factor of having guaranteed crits for 15 seconds

[vast wigeon]

Whip out needle pistol, dodge backwards, dh dead

Oh no it's attacking you but you have a zillion stamina

Block a combo, swap to gun, shoot 3 times, back to melee

[eager reef]

i dont care, i want to stab it to death

[vast wigeon]

You are stabbing it, with super AIDs needles

[mighty belfry]

If you run heavy rending node, precog is a good choice.

[haughty badger]

is it a known bug that cooldown stims arent working correctly? either concentration or the cartel special?

[woeful hill]

in what way?

[haughty badger]

not speeding up cdr at all

[mighty belfry]

Huh. I've seen it working just fine.

[woeful hill]

and where was this seen/tested?

[haughty badger]

if I use either while my ability is on cooldown I dont get any cdr at all

checked both in the meat grinder, just had it happening with cartel special in a match

[woeful hill]

ahhh

offline testing

try in a real match

[haughty badger]

also online

[woeful hill]

with numeric ui

[haughty badger]

I did say real match as well

[woeful hill]

mb

[haughty badger]

also I'm on console so no mods

[woeful hill]

its just hard to notice the increse since both are % based not flat decrease

with base game ui its hard to tell

but I can test for you later

they've worked fine for me since launch

*of the class

[haughty badger]

sure. if y'all havent noticed though it might be just an Xbox bug. I have some videos of it

I didnt take in match video but the meat grinder shows it pretty clearly. the interactions are inconsistent af

I'm also not getting cdr while Rampage is active unless I use the cartel special before the ability is available (ie, use ut last second before cooldown ends, then pop stim, ability is up, use ability, cdr works in the background. doesnt work if stim is used while ability is either active or off cooldown). Concentration has similar problems, but I forget the specifics atm

[exotic temple]

I’d say uncanny precog. If you are using shivs and take crit chem dependency you probably get more dps boosting your finesse because they do like x4 crit melee dmg

[haughty badger]

I usually take the crit on dodge. since some of my builds arent crit based, I also take the 100% rending on backstabs for better anti armor. precog and uncanny are definitely good too though

[woeful hill]

100% rending backstabs?

[haughty badger]

I'm usually using shivs as an anti armor secondary though to a ranged build so best blessings change a bit

[haughty badger]

yeah

[pearl ore]

ive been considering using vultures mark and a stimm supply to make a poor mans headhunter autogun crit turret

and talents that you think would work into that?

[exotic temple]

I was under the impression the stim cdr wouldn’t work at all if the ability is active.

[haughty badger]

you already chose the path. not much more to add other than nitty gritty specifics imo, which I usually like leaving to a persons preference. I would highly recommend investing in crit and grabbing rockets though

[pearl ore]

crit is what im planning to lean hard on

that and hypercritical

[haughty badger]

idk if it's supposed to or not, but it works with scriers using con stim

[pearl ore]

does stimm supply work with cooldown stimms now?

[haughty badger]

I was able to, but I think I had to use it manually then use the crate

I can double check

[exotic temple]

Yes you have to take the lingering effect talent though iirc

[pearl ore]

thats doable

I like scum alot

like alot alot

but im having trouble finding cool nonstandard builds that feel appreciably different

hence attempting to make ''marksman stance we have pm atoma'

[exotic temple]

ME too. I think people are still experimenting

[haughty badger]

I could share my combat shottie build. super non standard, but getting me great results so far

[exotic temple]

I’ve got a bunch of builds on game lantern I put together but I haven’t been able to test. 2.5 weeks into a 3 week hitch

[pearl ore]

Im not in game rn so itd be wasted on me

im a filthy buildcraft pervert anyways

I gotta come up with this garbage myself

[exotic temple]

So I’ll get to play with my meme build in a few days

[pearl ore]

sometimes I find something great

bloodthirsty blazing spirit sword gunker has been alot of fun

and I get to say im playing sword gunker

[exotic temple]

Great sword and gun psyker?

[pearl ore]

illisi

and I take 100% crit after special with fire on crit

then you just rub your sword and go apeshit on anything blue

the problem im running into with scum is each tree is very

good at being that tree

[exotic temple]

Yeah they shoehorn any hybrid build into chem dependencies

[pearl ore]

one of my favorite vet builds was me breaking my back to get shock trooper on a weapon swap vet

so I could unknowingly play desperado early with a laspistol

[exotic temple]

Well I was thinking about the build you were talking about with head hunter and vultures Mark

[pearl ore]

normally for a crit build Id go dependancy

[exotic temple]

You could either build it with desperado which prefers close range kills so it seems sub optimal

[pearl ore]

thats the thing im trying to make a long range scum

[exotic temple]

Or you could go stim pack stack fire rate and reload speed and go vm

[pearl ore]

its entierly unessecary I know

[exotic temple]

So you buff your team and yourself and you heal everybody 15% t when you kill elites and specials

[pearl ore]

the idea is taking the heavy headhunter and trying to see how hard I can push hypercritical

[exotic temple]

Hypercritical only works on melee

[light phoenix]

Is it worth stacking Stamina on Hive Scum for the attack speed increase talent?

[pearl ore]

is it the best thing you can do with the slots no

is it really funny, yes

[pearl ore]

whichever the ranged one is

[mighty belfry]

I'd recommend at most 2 Stam curios if you're going that route tbh

3 is just overkill

[pearl ore]

dont listen to them

take 3 +3 stam curios with 15% sprint efficienty on all of them

and ball

ball hard

ball forever

[exotic temple]

That’s the issue is hv and hc both only work in melee

[light phoenix]

Is it a significant effect on slower weapons like Caxe or more just to make fast weapons like Taxe even faster?

[pearl ore]

huh?

[mighty belfry]

It's way more significant on caxe than taxe

[pearl ore]

hc is close range only?

[mighty belfry]

Hypercrit is only melee

[pearl ore]

well there fucking goes that

if im doing it in melee than its just a bad desperado build

without the desparado

[mighty belfry]

I'd recommend it still for Desperado though

[exotic temple]

It’s basically to make you not horrible in melee if you don’t take melee perks

[pearl ore]

I have a desparado build

its very good but its

mostly what youd see in a desparado build

[mighty belfry]

It's essentially a node to make non-melee builds have some melee proficiency to them

[pearl ore]

I wanna make weird builds

[exotic temple]

You could take the sweet spot and the finesse stim for your stim lab

[pearl ore]

I could make it work for sure

[icy scaffold]

Weirdest one you’ll get is trying to make a vigilant autogun scum sniper

[pearl ore]

THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO MAKE

[icy scaffold]

[pearl ore]

but I want it to be a crit fisher

[icy scaffold]

Stim supply, chem dependency build then

[exotic temple]

Ramping backstab, threat reduction on slide and hyper crit with 100% rending on back stab shivs

[pearl ore]

I want vultures mark on it

[icy scaffold]

Get the extra crit from stims, double dip on stims

[pearl ore]

since the way im figuring it

if you have a crit stim supply and stand in it you can abuse the shit out of vultures mark

and recreate that ranged immune gunker thing where you just like

win the ranged fight

[exotic temple]

And you have infinite ammo

[pearl ore]

im working an especially nasty backstab shiv build too

just like I adapted my heavy sword zealot build into a scum build using chem on crit

[exotic temple]

There is a bug where you can take the stim and deploy the stimpack walk out of the radius and walk back in and get the buff twice

[pearl ore]

but I THINK that would be a much better knife build since I could mix in bleed on crit

[meager socket]

Can you use desperado to farm bullet dodges on reapers?

[icy scaffold]

Pretty sure it triggers dodge effects yea

[exotic temple]

Yes the ranged immunity on desperado is coded as a dodge

[pearl ore]

I cant belive they looked at empathic evasion

[exotic temple]

Same with vultures dodge

[meager socket]

nice ty thats the last heretic penance for me

[pearl ore]

and the utter utter bullshit you can do with it

and said

ah yes

yes

how about I give a class multiple ranged attack immune states

but then I found out alot of people dont play gunker

and dont spend the point on evasion

[exotic temple]

Vd is just immune state but it doesn’t work on aoe effects for some reason

[pearl ore]

which

shattered my faith in the DT community a little

like when so many people were having so much trouble on scum I was uttery confused

[icy scaffold]

Tbf, if you’re playing Psyker you tend to want that mage fantasy usually

[pearl ore]

"you guys arent doing glassy gun dodge builds already"?

[exotic temple]

I didn’t understand the issue people dying all the time while leveling

[pearl ore]

given generals insistance that people werent playing glassy gun builds

which

sure I guess people like tanky

apparently

you know what it is

[exotic temple]

Like you have infinite dodges and ranged immunity half the time and slides make you immune to melee

[pearl ore]

you cant block with a gun out

if you play gunker or some of the spicier close range vets you just learn to deal

but if people werent doing that (Idontunderstandwhynot)

I can see people not being able to deal with melee with a gun out

block and push do be fuckin

[exotic temple]

Blocks are kind a zero sum mechanic with as many dodges as you get with the class you don’t even block that much in melee

[tropic crag]

pushing is still good tho

[pearl ore]

I have this brain burst psyker build

[tropic crag]

mostly for the push attacks

[pearl ore]

instead of leaning into damage I leaned into usablity

faster casts, low peril gen, empowering on elite kill so you can chain fast casts

double shield so you always have a cast speed boost

but you bet

I learned to dodge with that fucker

[exotic temple]

I noticed a lot of utility is tied up in push attacks on the class specific weapons

[woeful hill]

@haughty badger I can test it now

[pearl ore]

because I couldnt block or push

[woeful hill]

so you were saying the cdr from custom stimms and yellow stims weren't working?

[tropic crag]

i'm not sure there is a class that should be blocking very often at all in melee, its a "oh i'm gonna die" sort of thing when you use it

[pearl ore]

realtalk

scumtalk

I think there is some fucked FUCKED up 2 person build

hinging on stimm supply with cooldown

[limber cradle]

I'm ngl I do not block very often if ever in darktide

[tropic crag]

i haven't blocked much since vermintide 1

[pearl ore]

especially since they nerfed cooldown stacking on zealot like

alot

[limber cradle]

Its very good in verm 2

[pearl ore]

I had this stealth knife zealot with the crit rampage keystone

[limber cradle]

It is not very good in this

[pearl ore]

that in a mixed horde could go into steal like 8 times

but i cant do that anymore

[tropic crag]

its something you do when you've messed up and can't attack/dodge/push your way out of, its a last resort sort of thing

[pearl ore]

since they locked cd talents

the fact they locked cd talents

[exotic temple]

Shield Ogryn is the only real exception I can think of but that’s really only to proc attention seeker

[pearl ore]

and scum and whip out a cd box

[exotic temple]

And you can block over heads

[pearl ore]

there HAS to be something fucked there

[limber cradle]

Ig very good is overstatement, it feels literally detrimental to block in DT tho

[pearl ore]

I used to hate blocking in vt2

[tropic crag]

the strongest part of the oggy shield is the cc on its attacks, if you are ever blocking with the shield for more than like 1 attack that you can't dodge and isn't worth tanking then you're making a mistake on the shield

[pearl ore]

then the spear and shield showed me the light of how utterly fucking strong block can be

[tropic crag]

the shield itself isn't for blocking, its for smacking

[exotic temple]

I like the idea of perfect blocks.

[exotic temple]

I like it make ranged enemies run into melee

[tropic crag]

yeah i guess you're right about there being more use cases because theres just more dangerous things to block, you can't really block a sniper round in dt

[tropic crag]

just run to them

[pearl ore]

listen

[tropic crag]

you get to do a cool slide whil eyou do it

[pearl ore]

if you like turning ranged enemies into melee goobers

[exotic temple]

Legs too short and if I’m heavy spamming the horde I usually can’t

[pearl ore]

let me sell you

on the gospel of smoke grenades

there is so SO much fuckshit you can do if you play with smokes enough

[tropic crag]

you can cover alot of ground dodging while you're swinging a heavy

channel your inner vt2 movetech

[tropic crag]

smoke nade builds are the fun version of luring guys in tbh

[pearl ore]

my favorite is throwing it with the spacing just so behind the gunner so they all run out the front of the smoke in melee

I couldnt tell you exactly how to do it so that happens just right

but you CAN do it

[exotic lynx]

uzis

[exotic lynx]

dump mobility or dump collateral?

[pearl ore]

mobility

[tropic crag]

usually mobility, but maybe collat... whats it change on them?

[pearl ore]

anything autogun adjacent likes collateral

[finite sand]

Collateral doesnt do anything for your damage.

[pearl ore]

I bid chat adieu

you guys are so fun to talk builds with ive been neglecting the game im actually playing

[exotic lynx]

Most of the build videos I see (such as https://youtu.be/9kKwJ6xEp4Q?si=2VOxCr4wfjK1PxSy) dumps collateral. It is common practice to dump mobility, but what specifically does collateral do, that makes it more worthwhile to dump on uzis in particular?

[pearl ore]

stab all meta heads

execute them

burn them to death

[exotic temple]

I do that, but there are some situations where I want to stay near cover.

[tropic crag]

lol when i turn on dt i end up chatting for a while between matches sitting in the mourning star

[pearl ore]

player expression builds ftw, netdecking for the dead

[tropic crag]

then you simply pretend they dont' exist until you're done with the current problem

[pearl ore]

im playing a chat heavy roleplaying game so ive just been like

staring really hard at a vending machine

[low harbor]

collateral is just stagger & suppression

[exotic lynx]

Yes, but what's the difference between 60% and 80% ? Are there any significant breakpoints in between?

[pearl ore]

simply do what I did

get an uzi with 76 in every stat

[low harbor]

it's somewhat complex but the answer is usually "not enough to matter"

[tropic crag]

which i think is undervalued because it can save your life if you have only enough bullets in the gun to tickle someone before reloading, can cause them to miss enough shots while you reload... but also you can live without it

[low harbor]

because, first off, any weapon that has collateral

is not actually hitting major stagger breakpoints in 1 hit

pretty much all of them (except boltgun & boltpistol) require multiple hits (which goes into cumulative stagger calculation)

[limber cradle]

Uzi with 80 mobi feels better than 80 collat

Idfk

[pearl ore]

gamefeel chad

[tropic crag]

honestly its one of those things where if you like it then its the right choice lol

[pearl ore]

if someone talks about meta hit them with a snowshovel

[tropic crag]

because its not gonna win or lose you a game

[low harbor]

nah it doesn't matter enough

[pearl ore]

if someone starts talking about feel

that motherfuker darktides

[limber cradle]

Look good feel good, feel good play good

[tropic crag]

i more meant suppression in general is undervalued a bit, it doesn't come up often but i can have value

[pearl ore]

thats why im only doing weird scum builds now

because ive been in desperado stub pistol land for a few weeks

[low harbor]

the variation in stat % is not relevant between 60~80

[limber cradle]

Desperado .45s is very fun ime

[pearl ore]

god stub pistols are sexy

[limber cradle]

Cause they're stylish

And Style>Substance

[pearl ore]

id pay another 10$ to get them on psyker

[tropic crag]

i get you, its why when i said moblity usually but maybe collat here that was why, i had a gut feeling that it might not change much either way because its one of those stats

that can do that on a number of weapons

[exotic temple]

But luring people to their deaths is funny. Like I’m not turtling with my shield up I just pop a cheeky block when I see a muzzle flash and go back to crumping

[tropic crag]

i just rush the shooty thing and drag the fight to them

[low harbor]

across every weapon I've checked, in no case is collateral meaningfully affecting stagger/suppression vs enemies that matter

[limber cradle]

Ime the fuckin uzis shoot so much anyway it doesn't matter

[tropic crag]

mobility usually doesn't matter much either tbh, like you can feel the difference but it doesn't really matter

[exotic temple]

I think you loose 1 stack of pining fire with 60% collateral vs 80% on a single clip for dap

I don’t find it onerous

[limber cradle]

Tbh I run blaze away anyway

[pearl ore]

I need to make a build that makes mobility cool

[limber cradle]

I have one pair mobi dumped with pinning

And one collat dump with BA

[pearl ore]

its the perenial dump stat

[limber cradle]

And ime collat dump BA feels killier

[pearl ore]

scum has enough dodge talents that maybe the build lives there

in fact

I wonder what the scum equivilent of pre rework grenade vet is

context

[exotic temple]

I think you should make a shifty back stabbing build

[pearl ore]

vets didnt used to have keystones

when they got keystones

[pearl ore]

I have one, it fucks

I wanted to make a throwback to no keystone vet

[exotic temple]

You said you took combat knife or did you do shivs

[pearl ore]

so I made '' fuck keystones dem points is going into every single grenade talent on the tree'' vet

[exotic temple]

Oh I’m talking about on hivescum

[pearl ore]

and I mean

a few reworks later

I could run grenade vet and have enough points to take a keystone since the tree is easier to work with

BUT

I wonder if scum has a sleeping dragon build that dumps the keystone for points

[pearl ore]

no keystone grenade vet turned out to be a monster

[exotic temple]

There is a no keystone stimlab build

[icy scaffold]

I doubt it honestly.

[pearl ore]

I had a pysker build like that

[thorny ginkgo]

RAMPAGE SUPREMACY

[pearl ore]

where instead of a keystone I just like

pumped every damage talent I could

I cant say if that fucked though

since it was a dueling sword build

so my skill tree at the time could have been 3 nails and a moldy cob of corn

and I still would have 1shot most of the game

my usual weird build question doesnt work on scum though

with vet I asked ' what is the most grenade this tree can have''

with ogryn (before the skill rework fucked specifically and only me) what is the most hp this skill tree and curios can have

700 was the answer

[mint pendant]

is the chain-weapons hard to use?

[pearl ore]

but I cant come up with a

what is the most blank scum can do

[thorny ginkgo]

my left finger needs a break using shivs 💀

[pearl ore]

because what is the most shoot is left tree

what is the most asswhoop melee is just standard midtree

and what is the most I can lean on chem is

the chem tree

[thorny ginkgo]

ur asking whats the best melee for chem?

[pearl ore]

I dont wanna be a mouse in fatsharks little maze

[mint pendant]

shivs no?

because of the dart

[thorny ginkgo]

it's shivs, bonesaw is ok

[pearl ore]

all scums ''how hard can I lean on a single stat'' builds are just

standard

[brittle sierra]

shivs and tac axe

[mint pendant]

so whats good for rampage

[pearl ore]

heavy sword

[thorny ginkgo]

rampage, chem depend, shivs, and bolt pistol

[brittle sierra]

best melee for rampage is by far Rashad

[thorny ginkgo]

i used shivs for this but im going to use rashad next game

not sure if rashad works good with coated weaponary

[pearl ore]

you cant even do whats the fastest scum can be

because destiny gunker shits on that

[thorny ginkgo]

idk desperado with vrak IAG might be the highest ranged dps build in the game rn, maybe autopistols too

[mint pendant]

what is rashad

[pearl ore]

combat axe

[thorny ginkgo]

combat axe rashad mark

[pearl ore]

the uncool looking one

[mint pendant]

ohh gotcha

[pearl ore]

but also probably the statistically scariest axe

[mint pendant]

sorry im trying to build a good ramapage build

[thorny ginkgo]

do u want to see mine

[mint pendant]

yes please

[pearl ore]

i posted my mixed rampage chem build a while back

[thorny ginkgo]

i use chem depend over frenzy though

one sec

[pearl ore]

but people yelled at me

because it was bad

[mint pendant]

whatever you find fun

should be what you play

if you feel comfortable playing that ramp chem build, do it

[exotic temple]

This is what I was thinking on the backstab build

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0aab65f-4b1d-4392-8f0e-a99137c91abc/back-stab-max-build

[thorny ginkgo]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0aab7b4-8152-4866-aa1e-84d74ff018ef/rampage-chem?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

this was auric mael, idk how it plays in havoc but it's pretty good

[pearl ore]

this is what I was running with

[brittle sierra]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07a0cea-46de-4afb-ba97-8ed478d8603e/professional-crack-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[pearl ore]

but it was just an attempt to translate a bleed attack speed build I had on zealot to rampage scum

the people HATED it

[round jay]

Idk if it's just me, but the rocket launcher feels very inconsistent, sometimes it doesn't register kills, sometimes it kills everything in it's radius and sometimes it felt like a crusher just ate it like a cartoon and nothing happens

[pearl ore]

shoot the ground not the bad un

[exotic temple]

And this was that vm stim build.
I haven’t been able to test or optimize either build but I plan to when I get home.

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a086811e-1250-43e6-acde-befbdb2185ee/ole-danny-one-eye-stim-peddling-marksman

[tropic crag]

in its current version i just shoot it at the ground like a normal grenade

[brittle sierra]

why does everyone take flak on the shivs?

[round jay]

That's part of sometimes the explosion seemingly doing nothing

[brittle sierra]

is there some kind of breakpoint I am unaware of?

[round jay]

Many enemies are Flak

And those are usually the ones you want to kill quickly

[brittle sierra]

doesn't matter, shivs have pen

like I asked, is there a breakpoint?

[limber cradle]

I have no idea, I run Cara Unyielding

[brittle sierra]

unarmored enemies for example have more HP

[tropic crag]

ehhh breakpoints are kind of floating because your team is also attacking things so sometimes you can take stuff like that to make it so less damage from team=more 1 shots for you

[brittle sierra]

yeah that's what I default to,

or maybe maniac to make sure you one shot mutants coming in

[round jay]

I honestly don't know nor care, I just stick with bonesaw and the chem stacks just kills about everything

[brittle sierra]

yeah but what helps shivs kill faster that have flak?

[tropic crag]

i don't use it, i was just saying it would make it more common, i still haven't played alot of shivs

[pearl ore]

willpower

the games least tracked stat

[thorny ginkgo]

honestly idk, i kill everything besides crushers in seconds

[limber cradle]

I can see that tbh, I'm just an ogryn racist(rot armor being back is making me lose my mind)

[exotic temple]

I take it on a bleed build because it helped with ttk on gunner and shoot gunners. There is probably a more optimal choice

[pearl ore]

rending backstack ,and the strikedown shivs let you 2 to 3 hit crushers

[brittle sierra]

unarmored gunners don't take flak

and you oneshot them on the head

also if you go bleed, how do you deal with crushers? 🤔

the poop knife build I saw the other day uses tox to fix that problem

but I dont see anything in your build

[exotic temple]

I only had issues with the scabs the dreg gunners were dying from bleeds

[tropic crag]

i've learned that you can rev up pushstabs on chainsword, i don't care if this is bad i'm going to keep using it this way because it looks funny

[brittle sierra]

in damnation, crusher has 6500 HP

[haughty badger]

would you like a combat shottie build? it's my personal favorite so far, non-standard af, and just used it in a couple havoc 22ish games to great success

[mighty belfry]

if you run bleed on shivs, which some do, it makes sense since a lot of things in this game are considered flak armored and it goes by that designation

[brittle sierra]

then you take unyielding, because bleed has the most value on targets with high HP

you oneshot everything else

[exotic temple]

I eventually went to rending instead of bleed. But for this build I’m probably going to have to incorporate the coated weapons

[brittle sierra]

the only time bleed can help you is with Maulers

[mighty belfry]

and scab ragers

[haughty badger]

and flak. might as well

[brittle sierra]

I'm not waiting to kill those fuckers

[mighty belfry]

they die faster

🤷‍♀️

[brittle sierra]

unyield is for bosses

[haughty badger]

I know

[brittle sierra]

and ogryns

[haughty badger]

shivs also might not be your boss damage depending on the build

[haughty badger]

yes

[brittle sierra]

you know, the enemies that actually take the full bleed ticks before dying?

[exotic temple]

Do you think unyielding would be better?

That’s what I’m picking up

[brittle sierra]

I think bleed is cope tbh

in any class

😈

[mighty belfry]

bleed is better on vet tbh

but i see why some would use bleed with tox builds

[haughty badger]

bleed ticks fall off fast enough and deal enough damage without max stacks that I dont feel like that really matters tbh. bleed is good against flak and hordes, for shivs especially if your using lights for anything

[tropic crag]

i like to take the bleed blessing on rumbler because it makes unlucky bounces that don't quite kill a special or elite into promised kills

on my melee builds i mean

[mighty belfry]

bleed is basically an insurance

[exotic temple]

I kinda get that I might just drop the bleed and go for finesse and rending

[thorny ginkgo]

only on a rampage build tbh

[haughty badger]

I dont use bleed on my shivs since I use them for anti armor, but bleed is better on more than just bosses

[haughty badger]

yeah, that'd be best case

[mighty belfry]

bleed bypasses cleave distribution as well

so naturally it makes horde clear more consistent

[thorny ginkgo]

high crit and finesse go crazy

[mighty belfry]

so it's pretty reasonable to use it if shivs aren't really your boss breakers and you just wanna go all horde clear

[haughty badger]

bleed isnt knocking socks off, but it's plenty good enough for endgame

[mighty belfry]

i personally don't really care for it for scum but, different strokes for different folks

esp since bleed kills mess with blackout regen

[limber cradle]

The only thing that feels good in end game rn is the fucking rocket launcher cause goddamn rot armor is back

[mighty belfry]

have you used the needler on havoc

in rotten armor

[limber cradle]

Yeah

Its too slow and my team keeps dying

[mighty belfry]

i'ma be 100 with you chief

[limber cradle]

Like yeah, it kills them

[haughty badger]

rocket just feels heavenly in general

[mighty belfry]

that sounds like your team ain't really controlling much

[limber cradle]

They aren't

[mighty belfry]

needler's probably the meta for rotten armor at this point

[limber cradle]

It is

Only because I only have 4 rockets

[haughty badger]

well yeah if you had more rockets everything would be obliterated on sight

[limber cradle]

Good

[mighty belfry]

yeah let's not have more rockets

[haughty badger]

like the free rockets effect in mortis trials

[limber cradle]

More rockets will be applied to the issue until rotten armor rotates off again

[mighty belfry]

i actually don't think that would be very good for the game LOL

[limber cradle]

I cannot believe we had a season of Rot Armor

For a commercial break of Blight Spreads

Into Blight Spreads+Rot Armor

[mighty belfry]

And now they're both back together

[limber cradle]

I'm actually tilted about it

[mighty belfry]

masterful gambit, Fatshark

[brittle sierra]

Bleed functions very differently on Ogryn

Because you don't take it for the damage you take it for the Damage Reduction

[limber cradle]

I would throw hands with whichever fuck ass FS employee is responsible for this

[exotic temple]

Ok I think I fixed it

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a086811e-1250-43e6-acde-befbdb2185ee/ole-danny-one-eye-stim-peddling-marksman

[mighty belfry]

Take two of the most complained about modifiers, and put them together!

[limber cradle]

Fuck it, pox gas and bugged rituals too

Have fun

Happy christmas break

[brittle sierra]

I'm confused why did you send this to me?

[mighty belfry]

On top of that

Probably the worst map rotation we've had yet?

[limber cradle]

Gloriana

And uh

More gloriana

This havoc season is actual dogshit

[haughty badger]

Gunner map go brrrr

[exotic temple]

Oh I thought you were critiquing the bleed knife in the build

[limber cradle]

I would take infinite gunners over this

You can just slide your merry ass up to gunners

[brittle sierra]

I just think if you are taking a bleed knife, get toxin on it as well

[limber cradle]

Or dodge because fatshark fucked dodge linger

[haughty badger]

nah you trippin. I'll take rotten armor every match if it meant no gunners

[limber cradle]

You are in the channel of the ranged immunity class

[haughty badger]

get shot between slides

[limber cradle]

I would take infinite gunners

Over rot armor

[haughty badger]

well that's one class. and also I dont run desperado often despite my gunner hatred

[exotic temple]

Oh I gotcha.

[brittle sierra]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a077d553-91e8-46ba-98db-89673f567985/porfessional-fent-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

just replace the rending blessing with bleed, and it should be good enough

[limber cradle]

I don't care i am so sick of rot armor

[haughty badger]

gunners are the most bs enemy in the game tbh. less so with the dodge changes but still up there

[limber cradle]

No

That would be pox bombers

Who are also in fucking rotation because pox gas is

[fast surge]

No bulwarks are the most bs

[haughty badger]

pox bombers arent that bad tbh

[mighty belfry]

why are we just

lying like this

[haughty badger]

only when you're the only one fighting it. in a team they're fine

[mighty belfry]

who benefits from these fibs

[eager reef]

imo pox bombers lead to more death spirals than any other enemy

[limber cradle]

Idk whatever ragebait farm they work at is suffering rn

[haughty badger]

I dont like the volumetric spread, it gets fuckin everywhere and it's annoying, but they're fine. better than gunners

[fast surge]

I do a lot of true solo so yeah that tracks

F bulwarks

[limber cradle]

Bulwarks are genuinely whatever to me rn

Especially on scum

Can dance circles around em

[mighty belfry]

just put gunner resistance on your darn curios

bastards barely do anything when you have that

[haughty badger]

I do. only damage resistance that does much of anything anyway

[limber cradle]

Just get shot once and regenerate a little under one third of your toughness

Who gives a fuck

[haughty badger]

oh dont get me wrong I can handle gunners, better than most. still hate them. things have gotten better though so maybe I ought to take them off the shit throne

[limber cradle]

Rot Armor+Blight Spreads+Pox Gas is literally Hitler tbh

[haughty badger]

I can agree with that

[exotic temple]

I kinda wish they’d just go to globadier size bombs. The gas lingers for too long and takes up too much area

[haughty badger]

yeah. at least the damage taken in the cloud isnt egregious. maybe I havent played enough havoc though. they're probably a lot worse in havoc

[exotic temple]

Like I understand they are trying to make things challenging at the upper ends of play but area denial on that level isn’t engaging

[limber cradle]

This shit is such a slog

[mighty belfry]

it's fucking annoying

[limber cradle]

There's "challenging" and there's "okay how much mental endurance do you have for this havoc"

[haughty badger]

at a certain scale it's not even area denial. like when they spawn 3 tox bombers. that isnt area denial that's toughness denial

[limber cradle]

3?

I have seen 12

[low harbor]

tox bomber top 2 worst enemy in the game

only 2 classes can tank pox gas

[limber cradle]

I have seen 12 fucking pox bombers spawn

[low harbor]

and both require taking specific talents

[limber cradle]

I love the "yeah just play arb dumbass" modifier

The worst part of pox gas is the safe zones don't even matter cause one dumbass and his 11 friends are going to throw pox gas on top of you anyway

[haughty badger]

if my mission roles are too shit I just dont do the mission. time to do other peoples

[mighty belfry]

i despise tox bombers

genuinely think they're a net negative for the game

[limber cradle]

I cannot believe they looked at the regular bomber and went "yeah make this guy even worse"

[mighty belfry]

because they're just cheap as all hell

[limber cradle]

They do so much

[low harbor]

tox bomber is one of the biggest reasons why plasma gun optimal setup runs unarmored

[limber cradle]

They make an exceptionally large area uninhabitable unless you're one of two classes

[low harbor]

just let that sink in

[limber cradle]

They buff enemies

[haughty badger]

bombers are only bad in excessive numbers. when the floor is all fire, the game isnt even playable

[limber cradle]

The dumbass can tank a plasma round to the skull

[mighty belfry]

tox bomber so bad that unarmored actually became a considerable choice for perks for ranged weapons solely because of them

[limber cradle]

Its insane

I booted my pc to play darktide and I don't even want to anymore

[mighty belfry]

Funny thing is I like the idea of an area denial enemy like what the tox bomber is supposed to do

But it's just so badly designed

[haughty badger]

is that just havoc? I dont play Vet much and I know Havoc increases enemy tankiness

[exotic temple]

Globadier in vt2 is the sweet spot for me

[limber cradle]

Afaik yes

[limber cradle]

Globadier wasn't also turbo buffing his idiot friends iirc

You ever see a rot armor pack walk at you buffed with pox gas? It makes me want to kill somebody.

[exotic temple]

There’s that too and one bomb didn’t cover an entire room

[haughty badger]

almost hate them more since their bomb damage is on impact and hits like a truck. at least fire and tox bombers have the fairness of giving you time to move

[mighty belfry]

Yes, lets make them hard to discern in a crowd, make it that they can throw their bombs from locations you legitimately cannot reach them or fire at them in, make the gas take 2 business days to disappear and sprawl through doorways, and also make it that you can't even tell if the gas is there or not because it lingers for a bit before it actually goes away

Like who thought this was a good idea

[limber cradle]

[haughty badger]

yeah design flaws for sure

[low harbor]

also just want to let u know

[jaunty coral]

what exactly does rotten armor buff in havoc do? besides make the armored units look all rotten and explode in mist

[mighty belfry]

Ah, let's also make it that the gas not only does corruption damage but also toughness damage and then also a severe toughness regen debuff

[low harbor]

outlines being disabled to you if you're in pox gas
is an intended effect

[mighty belfry]

It's too much for how easy it is for them to get a vantage point to fuck you over honestly.

And that's just one

[exotic temple]

It’s stuff like this that makes me not understand the appeal of havoc

[limber cradle]

It's a massive damage resistance buff against most conventional weapons

[limber cradle]

Yk what the thing is

Is when you play DT long enough

Auric is boring

And a cakewalk

But havoc is CBT

[jaunty coral]

what is most? like specifically is there somewhere i can read its exact buffs?

[limber cradle]

Bath do you know the numbers off rip

Cause iirc its some astronomical amount of DR

[mighty belfry]

I'll find the Kuli doc

[limber cradle]

Thanks

[jaunty coral]

is the dr only vs ranged, or worse vs ranged?

[limber cradle]

Thank you

[mighty belfry]

The DR is equivalent for both melee and ranged and scales downward based on current health.

The thing to consider is that DoTs and explosions are not affected by this DR.

So, basically, Rotten Armor wants you to abuse DoTs and explosions.

[limber cradle]

You cant even one shot RA Crushers with Thunder Hammer and that things entire gimmick is being a one shot stick

[low harbor]

scab ragers, scab maulers & crushers receive the effect, where:
at 90~100% health, they have x25% DR vs melee & ranged atks
at 75~90% health, they have x50% DR vs melee & ranged atks
at 50~75% health, they have x75% DR vs melee & ranged atks
at 25~50% health, they receive normal dmg from melee & ranged atks
at 0~25% health, they receive x125% dmg from melee & ranged atks
also on death they spawn pox gas for 6.0s

[jaunty coral]

exactly what i wanted to know tyvm!!

[limber cradle]

The best bit of it

Is the extra enemies that Just Spawn

[jaunty coral]

i just got back into havoc and im down all the way at 20

[mighty belfry]

That's the worst thing.

[jaunty coral]

just carried a 20 rotten armor pretty hard as melee hive scum, was fun, but i was like wtf is this modifier lol

[limber cradle]

So on top of everything the fuck else going on in havoc you just have all these fat fucks running at you too

[jaunty coral]

i havent played against rotten armor much

[mighty belfry]

The AI director budgeting is completely chalked.

[limber cradle]

It doesn't even feel like it exists in havoc sometimes

[mighty belfry]

Hordes of carapace should not be able to just spawn normally like they do in Rotten Armor

[limber cradle]

Watching the ritual pop because it's bugged and spawned too far anyway and now a rot armor pack is on the way

So god knows your team will not make it over there in time

[tropic crag]

so... i might like the chainaxe on scum?

[limber cradle]

Ty director very good

[tropic crag]

scum is just making me like alot of melee weapons i didn't like before

[limber cradle]

Having 75 percent more damage and like god knows how much cleave will do that

[low harbor]

chainaxe is ok, could be a lot better tho

[limber cradle]

I dislike chainaxe cause I used in Y1 and have distinct memories of it being the worst thing ever

[low harbor]

It’s ok rn

XII is the better variant

[limber cradle]

I might try it, idk

How long till the next havoc season?

[tropic crag]

yeah i was usin gthe xii

[low harbor]

uh

April?

[limber cradle]

Yk

I could just not play DT till April then try the chainaxe

I think that's an option

[low harbor]

why

blight & rot armor too aids?

[limber cradle]

Yes.

Horrendous combo

[low harbor]

play maelstrom ig

[limber cradle]

Boring.

[low harbor]

duo maelstrom is fun

[limber cradle]

I don't have friends, bath.

[low harbor]

too bad

havoc is more boring to me

[limber cradle]

I genuinely like the spawns in havoc

[low harbor]

dats like

[limber cradle]

I like the consistent bosses

[low harbor]

the only good part

lol

[limber cradle]

Auric is zzz tier but havoc rn is actually just not fun.

[low harbor]

the only gud thing abt havoc is havoc spawns

everything else sucks

[spiral horizon]

what iffy balancing does to a mf

[low harbor]

down to the last minute detail

[limber cradle]

How long have you been playing darktide?

[low harbor]

everything else sucks

[low harbor]

a while ig

[limber cradle]

Since the beginning?

[mighty belfry]

I've been able to circumvent the nonsense going supply scum

but

[low harbor]

no

game just didn't run

[limber cradle]

So, awhile back in year one

[low harbor]

lol

[limber cradle]

The director was broken

[mighty belfry]

it's annoying that it feels like you're kinda pigeonholed into running a DLC class

[limber cradle]

And it had either infinite or double resources or something

And it spawned a metric fuckton of stuff

It was my favorite era of DT

Havoc spawns are the closest thing to that

But to get that I also have to deal with whatever awful modifiers get tied to havoc

It's driving me genuinely insane

[limber cradle]

Its bullshit imo

Yeah buy the $12 classes or suffer

[low harbor]

auric's ambient and horde spawns atm are pretty close to perfect to me

[limber cradle]

And then suffer anyway

I can drag my 3 friends actually doing nothing but floortanking through auric maels unless I'm actually falling asleep at the wheel

[tulip magnet]

Crazy finishing an auric mission that everyone did fine and instead of "gg" someone writes "share the ammo". I don't think I saw anyone below yellow the whole time

[low harbor]

ur inhaling a lot of copium thinking it'll get better when havoc has consistently been getting worse over time

[limber cradle]

I'm aware

My b for not getting the titles when havoc was easy

[low harbor]

the titles are irrelevant

[limber cradle]

I'm aware, I want the penances done tho

[low harbor]

the penances also basically don't matter

[limber cradle]

Its the equivalent of getting every achievement

I like completionisting things

You either get it or you don't

[low harbor]

anything that doesn't give character cosmetics is basically irrelevant

[limber cradle]

You don't get it

That's fine

You don't need to

[low harbor]

I do get it

[tulip magnet]

character cosmetics are also irrelevant

the entire game is irrelevant