hivescum-class

[manic wolf]

Its a cool concept, it just feels awful to play

Mind you, same can be said about Crowbar

Hope both weapons see some tweaks

[lapis raft]

if saw had better mobility would feel 3 times better ngl

[bronze glade]

saw or crowbar?

shiv

[livid raven]

i don't get why saw makes you so slow

[lapis raft]

yea its just tiny ass cleaver

[bronze glade]

becuz surgeons are slow and methodical

[livid raven]

this shit isn't even a bonesaw, it's more like a cleaver

[supple torrent]

whats even the horde clear option on bonesaw.

everything kinda feels a bit off

[whole grove]

whats the dump stat for crowbar

[livid raven]

light spam or push attack light spam irrc

but you need to take several blessings and talents to help the cleave

because it's ass at it

[lapis raft]

light spam + taking all the cleave def worked somewhat well for me

[bronze glade]

Just light spam yeah

I mean the damage isn’t bad at all against hordes

Idk about mixed hordes

[toxic dagger]

Pa h h

[bronze glade]

The weapon just feels bad though

[toxic dagger]

For horde

Shock and awe is the cleave blessing you need

Then add Decimator for +str

[livid raven]

yeah

plus maybe the cleave on hit talent

[limber cradle]

How does ChAxe do into crushers and the like on a desp build?

[livid raven]

it's just combat axe

good but maybe you prob shouldn't have the slowest weapon in the game in a despacito build

[limber cradle]

Thats probably fair

I've wanted to use the thing since launch but it never feels like, good.

[trim wind]

Chaxe has great cara dmg but probably not best on ranged build

[livid raven]

i'm a big combat axe hater despite the fact it's objectively good

[limber cradle]

I mean chain axe

[livid raven]

oh

[limber cradle]

Not combat axe

[livid raven]

still kinda the same

[trim wind]

Oh i was talking chombat axe

[limber cradle]

CAxe is DS tier boring imo

So i don't use it

[livid raven]

chungus axe

[supple torrent]

ah I wasn't investing enough into cleave. Does it need AS support?

Feels really sluggish without it

[lapis raft]

yes its kinda unplayable without swift endurance

i was doing this for blessings when i was trying it

as most of your damage is toxin anyway so might as well grab even more cleave

[jaunty coral]

So is the consensus you SHOULD use HC/HV together? (melee focused build, using shivs personally) - ive seen a lot of back and forth. Some insisting they are good together, others insisting you shouldn't and you're missing out on utilizing HV procs correctly

[lapis raft]

i wouldnt use HC+HV on shivs for sure

[livid raven]

i don't see how they are good together

[jaunty coral]

ive seen some swear they are good together

then others like the recent infamous tanner videos saying not to

and wasnt sure who to listen to

when i dropped it, i did miss the HC procs at times, but i did notice the big HV dmg on thicc bois and bosses when i used it right more without HC

[ornate fiber]

In a realistic combat situationn, which is horde+elite, HC fucks HV over

[livid raven]

i wouldn't spend two talent points on two skills that don't work well together

[jaunty coral]

ya makes sense

[mighty belfry]

Tbf the two do synergize in one direction but then antisynergize in another

[lapis raft]

its more than 2 even as unless you are running stam curio i wouldnt even take swift endurance on path to shivs unless you are pathing there also for pickpocket or something

[mighty belfry]

Hyperviolence can feed into hypercrit by raising the flat damage enough to make the crit hit its breakpoint but it can't go the other direction.

[ornate fiber]

Hyper critical kill small sized enemies, who are your best target for Hyper violence in order to then kill big targets

[lapis raft]

well the issue is that hypercrit is nice for squishier targets for one shotting and hyperviolence for tankier and this is the exact opposite right

[mighty belfry]

I feel like hyperviolence is just more general overall. Works on any enemy.

[obsidian crown]

Doesn’t HV need overkill to work

[mighty belfry]

Just need some actual melee damage investment to really use it.

[charred bronze]

In my assessment it's about priority, playstyle, and the difficulty you play at. They work fine together. H-C shouldn't proc on trash. It will proc on elites, and H-V can enable it to work on elites better. H-C works always, and isn't stack dependent, so it's useful against isolated groups.

H-V can build to impressive levels in high density hordes, and enable big damage on crushers. A lot of players don't want to sacrifice that potential, and it's more valuable in high intensity situations and havoc where you're fighting so constantly that H-V won't drop naturally on a frequent basis.

[lapis raft]

yea i like hv in general a lot more

[ornate fiber]

Yes, but thats the issue, HC kills whereas you want enemies to be as low as possible to boost HV

[mighty belfry]

Whereas hypercrit's entire shtick is not needing melee investment at all.

[lapis raft]

and especially if you are rampage build you get so much value out of HV

compared to HC

[obsidian crown]

But isn’t that the issue? I heard HC kills exactly their health so you get no overkill which doesn’t work with HV

[ornate fiber]

Thats literally what I pointed out

[mighty belfry]

Yes. That's how it works.

Instant kill effect.

[obsidian crown]

Right

[lapis raft]

doesnt HC also prevent stuff like blinders etc

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

[ornate fiber]

They are both very interesting nodes, though, thats for sure

[mighty belfry]

Never use HC if you're running blinders to be honest.

Because you very much notice how slowly you'll get your blinders back and that's one of the big selling points of them.

[manic wolf]

Yesnt. HC only procs on human sized elites (and specials, but they shouldnt take more than one hit anyway)

[ornate fiber]

HC is essentially to get a cheap and effective melee build

[manic wolf]

So not only is it gamba-damage, its also only relevant vs a very limited number of targets, which you'd probably obliterate just as fast with HV

[ornate fiber]

HV is to focus on your melee build

[manic wolf]

"cheap" is a bit of a misnomer as you have to funnel a bunch of nodes or give up your blessing slots for crit chance

[ornate fiber]

If I had to decide, I'd say HV is better on most builds

actually, no

[manic wolf]

You're still making sacrifices to have even a passable amount of relevant procs

[livid raven]

HV is vastly better on any melee build imo

[exotic temple]

P attk h2 l1 h2 spam

[ornate fiber]

HC is better on most builds, but HV is stronger

[manic wolf]

Imo HV is better on all builds tbh

[lapis raft]

hv is def better on every rampage build at leats by a mile

[manic wolf]

It just works out the tin, you don't need to rely on gambling to get it to work, you just bring a suitably strong weapon

[obsidian crown]

HC seems useless to me on melee

[livid raven]

i'm actually rethinking HC

[winged bay]

how does hv interact with cleave

[lapis raft]

i think if you are desperado then HC makes sense for your melee that you never use anyway xd

[livid raven]

i think it's actually just a bad talent

[tender marten]

HC and HV are crutches, just click again smh

[mighty belfry]

HC is when you want to do a ranged or toxin build but need something to help your melee prowess tbh

[manic wolf]

Yeah, its a bait talent unless you've fully specced crit and in which case, HV would probably still be better

[mighty belfry]

It's not meant for melee builds honestly

[ornate fiber]

Its good if you are on a ranged build and want a little bit of insurance for your melee weapon

[livid raven]

that insurance is my gun tho

[supple torrent]

HC is when you want melee damage without melee investment.

[merry vortex]

So quick question what works with the stimm supply? Does long lasting and blessed stimm work with it? Or no?

[livid raven]

blessed stim doesn't do anything for stimm supply

[tender forge]

no

[lapis raft]

neither of those 2 work with stimm supply sadly

[manic wolf]

No, its not, because you're then forced to invest into crit chance or you're not going to be proccing it often enough for it to hold value

[ornate fiber]

I'll give credit to fatshark, HC and HV are both very interesting

[lapis raft]

well blessed stimm technically works

[merry vortex]

Got it, sorry they just worded it weird

[lapis raft]

only in the circle

[manic wolf]

HC is just bad

[lapis raft]

or at least that is what they said in the hotfix but its useless so dont click

[supple torrent]

Imagine having no crit on HS

[livid raven]

HC and HV are very cool talents that maybe shouldn't have been in the same class

[mighty belfry]

Hypercrit is fine lol

[winged bay]

it's good

on specific setups

[ornate fiber]

HC, for shivs, on a ranged build, essentially gives you an half effective melee build for a single node. its good

[lapis raft]

yea i think it has value

[mighty belfry]

Works particularly well with toxin scum with shivs

[livid raven]

i think shivs alone are plenty effective enough the few times you bring out melee imo

[lapis raft]

ppl should just stop forcing HC on builds where it do not belongs and thats it

[obsidian crown]

I barely melee if I’m on desperado

[manic wolf]

Personally, unless you're over 60% crit for most of the mission, I dont think its worth it. And as I mentioned earlier, if you're critting that often, you're probably using a weapon that hits with shitloads of overkill, in which case, why not just take HV?

[mighty belfry]

Because if you don't take nodes to increase your melee damage, you're not doing enough overkill for hyperviolence to get much mileage.

[lapis raft]

well if you are desperado you arent gonna stack hv much right you just want the melee as backup to pop something idealy

and yea also little overkill

[mighty belfry]

Hypercrit is a low investment melee node.

[ornate fiber]

HC is also VERY well placed

[manic wolf]

I still dont see why you would, if you're speccing for that much crit chance, you already probably have enough juice in the tank to make better use of HV, even without full stacking melee bonus'

[supple torrent]

less node investment. Like you're almost always going to grab HC if you're running gunscum. Or be close enough to grab it.

[lapis raft]

its basically like taking uuh

[ornate fiber]

its right next to Pickpocket

[lapis raft]

the 25% damage zealot ranged node for flamer

[winged bay]

it does seem like that people are trying to make data based claims about HC while hyper-violence is more based on psykhanium testing

[jaunty coral]

what about like a shiv + crit + HC + haymaker build in havoc, and getting a bunch of free one shot on high hp havoc 40 human sized dudes

[lapis raft]

but instead you take HC on your desperado for your shiv or crowbar or whatever they use

[obsidian crown]

I think HC is in a dogshit position tbh for desperado

[lapis raft]

well its right next to pickpocket right

[obsidian crown]

I skip it

[manic wolf]

Data based? Not really, at the end of the day its mostly RNG damage

[ornate fiber]

yes, which is even better

[winged bay]

Of course it's rng

[mighty belfry]

Eh. Haymaker requires heavies and that makes it kinda awkward even if you technically can hit two targets in one heavy with the stab

[winged bay]

but hyper violence is even harder to track

[mighty belfry]

I've tried it. Its not entirely reliable.

[manic wolf]

You might one shot that Mauler, you might also not, whereas you could have more reliable TTK on that enemy just by investing into HV, its just kinda no brainer

[jaunty coral]

use the the other model shivs, or use a tax axe 7 with the heavy light combo instead, or a normal combat knife with the horizontal heavies

[obsidian crown]

Not worth using HC on desperado tbh

[jaunty coral]

im more wondering how it would feel fully investing into crit + 1 shot chances with hc and haymaker on a high crit weapon

[mighty belfry]

Wait. When did tac axe have haymaker

[jaunty coral]

oh true it doesnt LOL

but you could use other model shiv or the combat blad VI

[manic wolf]

Its just such a hard-sell to justify using a perk that relies on gamba damage unless you're doing pure crit, so hard to justify

[winged bay]

there's no way hyper violence ttk is more reliable, it's even more rng

[fresh brook]

Is sweet spot worth it in a melee shivs build? Not sure if Swift Endurance + The Sweet Spot or Pocket Toxin + Forge's Bellow would be better. I tried in the psykanium and sometimes the extra headshot damage is there and sometimes it isnt?

[winged bay]

it may on average be better

[jaunty coral]

ya but in a crit build on this class you're easily 70%+

if not hgiher

[manic wolf]

That is exactly what more reliable means

[winged bay]

it may be being the keyword here

no one knows

no one is even trying to track it

it's just a feeling

[dim moth]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a08d5fc2-56f8-401b-99a0-ee054340b580/100-crit-chance-poop-knife

[manic wolf]

You can get over 100% crit, but then you'er probably making sacrifices elsewhere to do so

[lapis raft]

i was tracking the uptime for a bit at least, it def has pretty good one, but wasnt tracking the damage gain from it as that part is probs annoying to do

but HV and no HV on rampage mk3 shivs is like night and day difference

[dim moth]

I don't make sacrifices I make DEAD PEOPLE

[lapis raft]

like its not even comparable

[jaunty coral]

ya im just wondering how if you leaned into HC and haymaker stacked for 1 shot effects, if on the highest difficulties with super high hp enemies, would it end up being a lot of value or bad? lol

i may try it

[manic wolf]

I mean yeah, we're not worshipping chaos up in here 😄

[winged bay]

if the uptime isn't very high I think it's very likely that the damage contribution is low

[lapis raft]

but also idk if ppl run the mk3 shivs i think they are great

[winged bay]

because if you don't keep stacking it, it's not doing much

[hearty mango]

I use tac axe

[lapis raft]

my mod should eb able to track hv uptime now at least, but atm i mostly just play knife

so should be ez to check

[manic wolf]

It has at most one second of downtime, sure that also means 1s uptime, but you would expect that most of the time, its going to be stacking very consistently because if you're already one shotting most things, then that overkill from the skill is still being added for the next oneshot

[lapis raft]

idk if uptime mod tracks it maybe it does too

[dim moth]

I don't think haymaker helps but hyper critical absolutely

[dim moth]

I use mk3 shives

faster lights for spamming crits to apply tox/bleed xd

[lapis raft]

also bigger cleave big fun

[livid raven]

mk3 still uses lights for hordes right?

[lapis raft]

surprised you dont take battering strikes there btw i found it having rly good uptime even on dot shiv/knife setups

[fallen void]

best melee to pair with stimm supply and dual stub pistols?

[lapis raft]

yep

its just a bit lacking in damage as baseline but if you can carry its damage it feels 10/10

and well hive scum is all about carrying weapons with bad damage :d

[fallen void]

?

[hardy maple]

whatever your heart desires

[exotic temple]

Seems like a weird combo, I use saw and needler for stim supply

[fallen void]

crowbar?

[hardy maple]

why not

[fallen void]

i want a build that uses stubs because i think they're cool

[exotic temple]

Gotcha

Crowbar without rampage feels weird

[lapis raft]

knife probs ngl

[whole grove]

whats is the dump stat for crowbar ?

[exotic temple]

Yeah knives or shivs is what I’d go for personally

[jaunty coral]

is taking nothing but a cooldown stimm with rampage still good/viable to pump rampage off cd asap?

[tender marten]

kinda?

[final temple]

Crowbar ~~without rampage ~~ feels weird.
ftfy

[tender marten]

if youre determined to take adrenaline, yea

otherwise dependency serves this purpose better and you can still do other things with your stim

[final temple]

take chem dependency. load up on str and crit or finesse. voila. temu rampage AND CDR

[exotic temple]

Thank you. You are a scholar and a gentleman

[exotic temple]

I’m curious if chainsword would work.

[torn ember]

... god dammit game

[manic wolf]

Or just take STR stim and spec adrenaline and at most you have 15s downtime, but Adrenaline active, just make sure you take Sample Collector so stim is ready next time Rampage ends, cycle between the two

[lapis raft]

you can look at it like this, adrenaline is technically worse momentum from zealot with better uptime, chem dep is worse blazing piety with cdr and perma uptime

[final temple]

that's bait!

[lapis raft]

both are good, i like chem dep more tho

[torn ember]

Yup 🙁 I still don't have a +3 stam curio on my Scum

[lapis raft]

and the crit consistency with chem dep feels very nice

[manic wolf]

Im ngl, i dont rate chem dep at all as a keystone

[final temple]

I struggle to see the value of frenzy. the return of investment for typically 3 points invested in a keystone is really bad for scum in general but the worst on frenzy

duality of man rite there

[manic wolf]

Always on 25% melee damage and 10% attack speed is the return on investment, the only node thats actually a requirement is the on-kill stacks, the others are just QoL

[lapis raft]

ok this took a while to find nice efficient method to track this, should've just checked thesource in first place as i just used smae method thats used for calculating hv overkill in the end xd

i guess technically buffs also have overkill damage but eeh

[final temple]

compared to being able to rampage more often, this does not provide a compelling argument. plus it loses out to the attached nodes of chem dep. 20% crit is MASSIVELY more damage than 25% base melee damage. and 20% TDR pretty much nearly offsets the downside of rampage.

I would prefer seeing frenzy buffed. both numerically and mechanically

[winged bay]

How much more often though and even in h40 I feel like I often end up delaying rampage

[lapis raft]

they should swap adrenaline with momentum on zealot

would be so fun xd

also its arguably way more fitting

[manic wolf]

Iuhhh... no? Its most certainly not more damage lmao

[final temple]

on average? I would say easily 30% more often. that absolutely overshadows frenzy.

[winged bay]

and there's no way 20% crit is massively more than 25% damage

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. thats just not a thing lol

[final temple]

guess we have to do the maths again. crit by itself does by default 25% more damage. more crits mean more exploding damage rolls.

[manic wolf]

But crits are RNG

RNG vs always on

The numbers just dont support it

[final temple]

if you approach 100%, that becomes negligible. and scum IS a class that can relialy build for crit

[lapis raft]

you are playing crit class, idk why would you devalue crit as damage scaler at all

[final temple]

to the point that if we start taking finesse damage options, we end up with more than 25% damage on average

[lapis raft]

20% crit is a lot of crit

[manic wolf]

It could see it being more of a factor if you were at 100% crit chance the whole mission, but you're not gonna be

[winged bay]

Not devaluing, comparing two sources of damage

25% damage also increases your crits

[manic wolf]

^

[final temple]

it's in the wrong bucket to scale to the same

[lapis raft]

they are just separate scalers to damage, except scum also has bunch of on crit conditionals + synergy

[manic wolf]

Not really. Even with 40% crit and Adrenaline you're probably outdoing an average of 70% crit chance over the course of a mission, only because its much more consistent damage

[final temple]

if you run for whatever reason a low APM/low crit build, those 25% base damage increase in value

but that aint how scum is geared

[winged bay]

I don't see the math for 20% crit being more damage than 25% damage, is all

[low harbor]

Unfortunately hvs’ best melee is a low APM low crit weapon

[winged bay]

scum doesn't even have a lot of additive damage modifiers either

so that pool is smaller than for some other classes, making it more valuable

[lapis raft]

well its still additive with bunch of them

• crit conditionals and HV overkills on big procs

[winged bay]

the rng is just going to stop hv stacking sooner

[ornate fiber]

I went and did a mission, and we are still arguing over HV and HC?

[lapis raft]

no, chem dep vs adrenaline this time

[ornate fiber]

Ok, chem dep every day of the week

not even close

[final temple]

it doesn't. this is not how HV works. contrary to the HC vs HV debate, just regular crits are not an issue

[lapis raft]

yea i prefer chem dep as well

[ornate fiber]

chem dep is better because its effective all the time, synergizes with every build, and has good nodes around it

adrelanine has weaker nodes, only works for melee, and isnt always active

[winged bay]

if you first crit and then don't crit, your overkill damage is often going to be less than with the previous hit

[manic wolf]

Adrenaline is active all the time unless you're dead, in which case Chem Dep isnt doing anything for you either

[lapis raft]

this is ltierally just blazing piety vs inexorable discussion anyway lol

[final temple]

I mean, to be fair, I consider all keystones for the scum to be in need of rework. the 40% CDR for stimm supply is worthless.

[lapis raft]

guess which one i prefer on zealot too

[final temple]

but chem dep is the least bad with some seriously powerful value propositions

[manic wolf]

Or you know, its not active if you're playing like shit, chem dep will absolutely be more value if thats the case, though i would hope its not the case

[ornate fiber]

chem dep is straight up good

[manic wolf]

Its very mid

I would take it on some hybrid setups, i wouldnt on either ranged or melee

It just doesnt have the output

[ornate fiber]

30-40% CDR, crit chance, and thoughness dmg reduction+ 50% thoughness on stim

for 3 nodes

[bronze glade]

toughness

[ornate fiber]

or 4, if you run a low timer stim

[bronze glade]

not thoughness

[ornate fiber]

I thought about it, so its thoughness

[final temple]

I would claim you can even run max stimm and the 4 stack node.

[ornate fiber]

you can, with some specific builds

like with blackout

[lapis raft]

you need to kill a lot to be able to do that or run crate but yea

[final temple]

I was more thinking stimm supply. and no, not because of the application bug. more because it has the most forgiving timing

[bronze glade]

seems like you came to the wrong conclusion

[lapis raft]

i just ran 45s stimm its plenty

good uptime ez stacking

[manic wolf]

Only the crit chance is of any value imo, cooldown is whatever, you can get that from stim if you need it that badly, and TDR and 50% toughness is just a waste when this class has supercharged mobility

[clear isle]

guys, does long lasting stimms affect crate?

[bronze glade]

crate is separate

[clear isle]

thanks

does the effect of the crate count for "cartel special" penances?

[ornate fiber]

CDR is definitely useful for any ability, tough rampage a bit less, but even then, chem dep simply rewards you for doing one thing you were already doing: using your stim

[bronze glade]

cdr is good for desperado

that's it

[ornate fiber]

It doesnt matter if you decide to shoot a lot, or to melee a lot. Chem dep will reward you

[low harbor]

Dependency is CD rate, not CD reduction

[ornate fiber]

True, my bad

its still very effective for desperado and, i guess, stim supply

[lapis raft]

i used it and still would use it with rampage too

[ornate fiber]

The only reason you might not want it for rampage is because of its shorter CD

[final temple]

even rampage, regardless of it being the quickest

[manic wolf]

An even then, its not really worth the investment as if you'er playing Desp, you already have Pickpocket and most people will also have VD instead, so CDR is basically inconsequential as your ult is effectively always active due to those two nodes

[bronze glade]

the value of the cdr on rampage is there, but it's very small

[final temple]

idk, let's reevaluate VD once it actually works

[ornate fiber]

Desperado can work without Chem dep, but definitely also works with it

[bronze glade]

the only ult i'd take with chem dep is desperado

[manic wolf]

I still wouldnt tbh

[bronze glade]

to lower time between ults

[winged bay]

do you have rampage uptime data with and without chem dep

[manic wolf]

Its a 30s cooldown, its gonna have very little impact

[bronze glade]

unless you run like 20 matches of each or s omething, i don't think you can draw meaningful conclusions

[low harbor]

Dependency basically shaves 2.5s off rampage CD, assuming u run the CD rate stim with melee path

[bronze glade]

for something like that

[winged bay]

rampage itself lasts so long, even mathmetically it'snot going to be a big difference overall

[bronze glade]

yeah it has a quick cd with cd stimm, and a very long uptime

[low harbor]

I’m not sure how that 2.5s matters much overall

[bronze glade]

and the downtime happens when rampage isn't worth activating

[low harbor]

It’s mainly there for the crit chance benefit

[bronze glade]

yeh

[lapis raft]

well you can just not run CD rate stimm as well, i just ran chem dep with str path 45s stimm

[bronze glade]

and at that point i'd rather just run adren

[lapis raft]

for rampage

[ornate fiber]

those are my stats, with and without chem dep

for desperado

[manic wolf]

Its an uptime graph, what is this supposed to prove in the context of the discussion

[ornate fiber]

Some mentioned uptime with chem dep, though they asked about rampage

[manic wolf]

And Rampage is an ult, not a keystone.

[ornate fiber]

Yes, but i'm using desperado here, not rampage

[manic wolf]

It's still meaningless in the context

[bronze glade]

i think chem is fine with desp

i take it sometimes

[ornate fiber]

Not really, it gives you a slight idea of chem dep's utility

you build your stimm around it

and you'll be fine

[manic wolf]

I would rather just take something that provides me useful damage boosts

[ornate fiber]

You can, but you'll be stuck to melee

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. noo

There are plenty of firearms that work just fine without 20% crit chance

[ornate fiber]

for sure, but since you went middle tree into the keystone, you likely arent running a lot of stuff from left tree that would boost your ranged weapon. Thats not an issue, but it does mean you'll reap most benefits by sticking to melee

[manic wolf]

Having 25% damage in melee with an attack speed boost is gonna help you with the things Scum can struggle with, 20% crit chance on your gun isnt going to have the same value, ever

[ornate fiber]

and if you are running stuff from left tree also, then right tree, where there are a lot of good nodes, might not be an option

As I see it, crit is useful regardless of melee or ranged, CDR is useful most of the time, and toughness reduction is useful to have

are those insane bonuses ? No, but they are all welcome, and easy to get

adrenaline can work with just 2 nodes spent on it, so its cheaper

[final temple]

you need 3 points to make it worthwhile. frenzy itself. one to stack quicker. one to increase uptime.

[ornate fiber]

or even 0 node except adrenaline

[dim moth]

nah

[ornate fiber]

idk, I'm pretty sure you don't need those

[dim moth]

have you tried playing more aggressively

adrenaline can work fine on its own but imo spend at least 2 on it for the toughness regen if nothing else

[ornate fiber]

I would argue, the 20 seconds node is better

+5% toughness per second is nice, but you'll be regenerating toughness already with precision violence

[final temple]

you can play as aggressive as you want, those 30 stacks need to be maintained and you dont want it to fall off inbetween packs.

[ornate fiber]

they fall one at a time and are very easy to get

if you play on high intensity or havoc, you'll always have enemies running towards you

[winged bay]

I think the only value of 20s is for the toughness regen when you have to play defensively

if you are actually fighting you are easily proccing it even with 10s duration

dropping it between packs barely matters when it comes back up instantly

[final temple]

the toughness regen is actually kinda pointless. with precision violence, attack speed immediately translates to toughness regen. and in precisely that supposed mass horde scenario far outpaces those meagre 5 toughness/s

[ornate fiber]

yeah, the toughness regen node is not needed

[winged bay]

it's just for passive toughness when you can't generate in melee

not saying you should take it

[ornate fiber]

if you are taking hits so much that precision violence cannot substain you while in melee, you are either not dodging properly, or positioning yourself badly

[final temple]

I thought that isnt an issue with the endless wave?

[winged bay]

but 20s is otherwise meaningless

[final temple]

from experience, I dont want frenzy to fall off between packs, so the 20 sec add that buffer to maintain damage and attack speed.

[ornate fiber]

the 20 seconds node is insurance. You may not need it, but, in a way, it guarrantes you a lot more uptime

[final temple]

and I really want a quick way to stack, so the node that gives 15 stacks per elite kill entirely takes off the mental load

[winged bay]

going to need to play more with and without for some Uptime info

[ornate fiber]

its worth pointing out, its sort of dependant on your melee weapon

melee weapons that hit fast reward you more

scum isnt lacking for cleave

[final temple]

idk, I do like taking battering strikes for bonesaw

that weapon wants ALL the cleave

[ornate fiber]

I'd have a hard time justifying anything else except shivs, at this point

shivs are just so insanely good

[final temple]

they indeed are

[ornate fiber]

its telling that, for a class to have the combat blade available, nobody uses it because shivs are somehow even better

[final temple]

I mean, I have seen combat blade builds

they are still fun and effective

but shivs just vibe

[ornate fiber]

I have seen one, but its around mobility

those stats fuck

I'll be sad if they nuke the carapace damage on it

[sweet chasm]

We test both builds at the same time he ran the second build meanwhile i ran the modified hypercrit build

Never trust meta builds and play around each abilities along with make your own play style and develop skills

[ornate fiber]

You could also answer his question

[final temple]

in the end, the best build is always the one that clicks with you, true

[dim moth]

so true I shall player smite psyker for 1000 hours more

[final temple]

but that does not mean there are no mechanically sound builds as a starting point

[rocky socket]

Thanks man! To be honest thats the best answer what i will ever get

[final temple]

A curse upon you and your family cow!

[radiant swift]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/745324840097153167/1449510381050400931/IMG_0035.gif

[dim moth]

https://tenor.com/view/gogmazios-monster-hunter-monster-hunter-4u-monster-hunter-4g-monster-hunter-wilds-gif-7967757550753361831

[lapis raft]

i take battering strikes for everyting that node is just rly good :d

with rly good uptime too

[final temple]

I dont feel like I need it with shivs

but yeah. good node

[ornate fiber]

idk, battering strikes seems kinda overkill, when paired with pulverising strikes

[lapis raft]

its pretty impactful even on shivs when your rampage is down

when its up its unnecessary but yea

[sweet chasm]

I did but usually its up to people to decide what kind of build they want to make or come up with something that is broken in their own unique way. Generally meta builds are trash. It works for some play styles but from my understanding of this game the devs wants players to find more ways to enjoy the game by trials and errors. Which it comes to my personal rule of f around and find out.

[radiant swift]

Collat dump on dual autos right?

[sweet chasm]

Dual autos go brrrrrr

[jaunty coral]

so i REALLY like melee shiv build, its a great dagger fantasy and seems even havoc viable.

but i struggle with the cleaver, any advice? whats the best havoc build for cleaver?

[ornate fiber]

But not everyone has deep understanding of the game and its mechanics. Things like HV and HC are still being argued over. Hive scum is also particularly hard to build when compared to most classes

[lapis raft]

cleaver build is almost same as shivs pretty sure just worse :d

[ornate fiber]

Its easy for us, because we, likely, each have over 1000 or 2000 hours on this game, but if you inspect builds on people on the Morning star, you'll see some people have no idea how to make a build

[lapis raft]

can also do crate with it but again just worse than shivs most likely

[winged bay]

needler spam+crate no keystone is good

[final temple]

thanks. I never did that outside of havoc. now I have a new fear unlocked xD

[sweet chasm]

But anways what kind of playstyle that you want to achieve first

[ornate fiber]

It can be pretty interesting, but also sometimes kinda sad

you'd be surprised how many people run weapons that are not even remotely close to optimized

[hazy vector]

based

i don't like meta on principle, but i do like builds that annoy people

[manic wolf]

Do not look at random builds in Mourningstar, just don't do it

You'll get aggravated with both the player and yourself

Better to live in ignorance

[dreamy portal]

Lovin' hive scum class. Wonderin' though what the game means by "cartel special" in 1 of its pennances.

[bronze glade]

your special stimm

[trim wind]

Stimm

[dreamy portal]

And also by "at least 50%" viscosity, does it mean it has to be AT 50% to count?

[hazy vector]

Do you know what "at least" means?

[dreamy portal]

Yes, i just wanna know if i should go higher than 50% or lower. By the language it seems higher, but i still have nothing toward enhanced.

[hazy vector]

yes, higher

[dreamy portal]

Does it depend on tank or regain?

[ornate fiber]

stuff like this

[azure mist]

Trying to cook up something Stub Pistol + Despie related im just wondering if it wants crit or if it doesn't really matter

[ornate fiber]

ranged build likes crit but obviously not as much as melee

pistols like crits, though

but , you can do without

[azure mist]

Usual combo on it I assume is Crucian with something of your choice?

[ornate fiber]

its worth pointing out, Hyper Critical does not work on ranged weapons

[azure mist]

Pinning Fire might be an obvious choice actually thats just free

[azure mist]

Oh yeah I know I mainly grab that to give horde clear with melee and thats about it

at least with the weapons that really like Hyper crit

aka Shivs or Both axes

[ornate fiber]

I wouldnt use crits perks on the pistols themselves

you'll get crits anyway outside of it, with a few perks

[azure mist]

Butterfly just being free 20%

[ornate fiber]

float like a butterfly+ either vulture or chem is 35% already

pistols bring +5%, and I'm not sure if scum has 5 or 10 innate crit chance

[radiant swift]

10

[azure mist]

Honestly doing vultures

[ornate fiber]

ok, 10

thats 50% crit chance, with just 2 popular skills

[azure mist]

Flakiac on Perks I assume?

[ornate fiber]

I'd roll flak and maniac

[azure mist]

Yeah assumed such

O'l reliable

[ornate fiber]

speedload is quite useful on pistols

you'll reload very often

hit and run for a meme build, but pinning fire otherwise

if you want more crits, run desperado

I would always use speedload

if I'm being honest, pistols are a biiit underwhelming, to me

they arent bad, but its annoying to have to spam your mouse to keep shooting

[azure mist]

Honestly seeing Speedload is a talent I picked that up and did RnG + Pinning and Im noticing how incredibly oppressive it is on Specials/Elites in the Psyk

obviously this is in a Vaccumm

but that spread decrease is no fucking joke

[broken moss]

https://tenor.com/view/huge-bitch-deuce-bigalow-rob-schneider-gif-12618957

[mighty belfry]

Okay. Maybe this is copium but I can see this pulling some weight on a stimm supply build because of the bug lmao

[ornate fiber]

the two pictures are from the same build

[mighty belfry]

Okay that's just depressing.

[ornate fiber]

thats a 71 seconds cooldown on the stim, without any way to shorten it

Builds from randoms on the morningstar can be weird, but hive scum is a rather hard class to play and build

lots of stuff isnt explained properly

for exemple, toxin is never explained, but there are two different types

the normal type, and the type that make enemies explode on death

[lapis raft]

is anything ever in this game explained properly on tooltips

[ornate fiber]

some, but in hard to reach spots

[dim moth]

uuuh cleaave maybe?

[ornate fiber]

like, the saw's alt move

saw either deals toxin, or brittleness, but to someone without mods, how much brittleness does it inflict ?

[lapis raft]

random generous sprinkles of description :d

[ornate fiber]

none of it is explained

[dim moth]

i dno same amount of toxin it inflicts ig

[ornate fiber]

well, no, cause toxin are on stacks, but brittleness is a %

and there are different types of brittleness

some stacks, some dont

This game is a lot harder than it appears

Like, genuinely, you need hundred of hours to start to really understand how it works

but most of it is because none of it explained anywhere

so you either need to look it up online, or play a lot

[lapis raft]

idk if i would call inconsistency and lack of in game information difficulty

[vivid wedge]

I mean kind of, I've seen people who have 500+ hours and are afraid to run auric just because other people have given them PTSD lmao

[limber cradle]

Is havoc reset 30>20 or 30>30?

Like if you're 30 do you stay 30 or is it 31

[ornate fiber]

I ended last season at around rank 33, and found myself in 30 at reset

[limber cradle]

Yeah

It does it by 10s

Im asking if you're 30 does it stay 30

[vivid wedge]

no it should go down to 20

[limber cradle]

Or if you have to be 31

[lapis raft]

you can have complicated systems that are also properly described and consistent in game (look at poe for example, different genre but its pinnacle of how game tooltips should look like in every game imo and no game comes close rly to consistency there)

[limber cradle]

Alright, ty

And reset is sunday?

Right?

[ornate fiber]

uhh, no

[vivid wedge]

no lol, that is the cache timer

[ornate fiber]

we already got a reset when scum got released

[limber cradle]

Alright

[ornate fiber]

reset is every few months

[limber cradle]

Tyx2

Oh

I was like

Hard pushing for 31 by tomorrow

I quit playing for 2 weeks and hit 20

[ornate fiber]

I believe this is like, our third or fourth season of havoc

fourth, I think

[novel oracle]

3 stacks of 2.5%, +1 on crit
Max of 15 stacks for 37.5%

[ornate fiber]

I know, but this isnt explained anywhere in the game

This is an issue that keeps getting worse and that Fatshark seems to have little need to change

[vivid wedge]

It's probably because the average player doesn't look that deeply into it.

[manic wolf]

Jesus fuckin christ

[ornate fiber]

this was a crowbar build

[lapis raft]

poe for example has advanced tooltips for stuff like this, you hold alt and it shows more (especially has short description on keywords and stuff), win win, less mess by default, can hold alt to show full info

[ornate fiber]

Poe has some issues with informations for minions, but aside from that, it's good at informing the player what a skill does

the wording in PoE is VERY specific

[lapis raft]

yea every keyword (except nearby :d) has defined meaning always

[ornate fiber]

like, how is a darktide noob supposed to figure out what "close range" is

it NEVER tells you the range, aside from desperado highlighting it

[bronze glade]

coming here and asking

[zenith fern]

it took this long to find out that close range is applied for both melee and ranged, i was told by this about 2 weeks ago

After my 1200 hours of playtime

[charred bronze]

really confused about how Pinning Fire works. It says +5% strength for every enemy you stagger, but in the psych I'm seeing it stack up on single targets, like mag dumping a Mauler

[zenith fern]

You see how massively of a problem is with FS wording

[charred bronze]

works on your zook rocket too

[ornate fiber]

Yes, because staggers are different types

[lapis raft]

might as well go look at the source code for the abilities as thats the only thing that ctually has info :d

[ornate fiber]

some staggers knock enemies on their asses, while some others just make them tremble a bit

but, in the end, stagger is stagger

[lapis raft]

for example today i learned that hyperviolence actually doesnt rly stack from itself because i saw someone checking it in modding discord

and thats like impossible to tell

[bronze glade]

really?

[ornate fiber]

well, if it did, you could get some insane results

[lapis raft]

yea it substracts the old overkill value from itself

[charred bronze]

maybe difference between english as a first language dev team, or maybe they have some prior game design experience in something like board games or tcgs that generally require extremely precise wording in rules.

Or they're just better writers/communicators. I've written a lot of ability descriptions over the years, and some devs are excellent at accurately describing how an ability works. Some teams are excellent at releasing abilities that actually function how they say they function.

Others. . . are not. Or the loc team isn't good at communicating accurately with the dev team.

[lapis raft]

i mean its 1s duration might as well let ppl have some fun smh

but yea maybe not :d

[bronze glade]

i guess it might produce silly results otherwise

[charred bronze]

oh, and some teams don't want highly specific ability descriptions, which boggles my mind. Some teams think that extremely precise description are intimidating, and that some discoverability is good for the players, so they can feel that they're sleuthing things out, and game knowledge is more emphasized as an aspect of play.

[bronze glade]

swing through four poxers, do 20k damage against the boss

imagine that

[charred bronze]

so does that kill half of the argument against H-V + H-C?

[lapis raft]

def makes HC better in comparison imo yea

well not better

[final temple]

Throne. That's heresy!

[charred bronze]

more useful than previously perceived

[lapis raft]

yea that

[ornate fiber]

idk, I always assumed it didnt stack

[bronze glade]

it also makes the "anti-synergy" between HC and HV nowhere near as bad

[lapis raft]

well yea because hyperviolence will actually reset itself

with that substraction

[ornate fiber]

like, why would it stack ? It would be insanely busted if it did

[lapis raft]

so yea the antsynergy isnt so bad

[charred bronze]

My experience suggested that it didn't stack to the levels that some were reporting, but I'm an auric player that's never stepped into Havoc. I presumed conditions there allowed massive stacking i'd never see

[lapis raft]

as you have to get more and more overkill daage for it to not go 0 and not disable itself

[charred bronze]

H-C is still only a nice to have. H-V + rampage is more than adequate to quickly put down elites

[final temple]

The argument against HC + HV is less about HC having a chance to reset HV and more that HC sets out to solve a problem that HV does not even have and all you do is just delay HV kicking in

[ornate fiber]

Its very simple: HV relies on overkill, but HC makes you kill stuff early

when you kill something with HC, it otherwise would have been a good way to kill something at low health, gain the damage boost from HV, and deal lots of damage on your next strike

[final temple]

if HC would properly trigger on kill effects, it would be a worthwhile sidegrade to HV with you choosing between mixed horde clearspeed or humanoid oneshot potential

[lapis raft]

is the instakills not triggering on kill stuff actual balance choice btw or something that just happened and they never bothered fixing

[ornate fiber]

The one good synergy between the two skills is that, a boosted hit that also crits will likely kill anything in the game that isnt a boss

[charred bronze]

subjectively, swarms of elites (ragers, usually) would die faster under my swings when I use them together. My current build doesn't have H-C anyway, but it was noticeable. It wasn't uncommon to swing at something that generally takes 2-3 light taxe hits to die and it would just pop immediately.

[final temple]

I suspect the latter because it's a different type of damage

[charred bronze]

but, how impactful that actually is? Debatable. That point going toward Sample Collector enables more Rampage, which kills things faster than not having Rampage

[final temple]

yeah, HC is definitely more noticeable than HV because of the oneshots. but HV basically makes you mow down stuff faster. it's just not readily visible

[lapis raft]

is it actually different type of damage? i was looking at tracking hypercritical the other day but it looked like it was just tagged as instakill but it actually dealt the remaining hp of damage and came as normal type. if i remember correctly, in some func im hooking for tracking damage

[low harbor]

this is a great question and it kinda depends

at least, I think the instakills not being able to recover blinder/blackout is not intended

[final temple]

yeah. Instakill is it’s own effect iirc. And the triggers for on kill might not all listen for that.

[charred bronze]

If I had to guess, I think they borrowed some of the code/proc mechanics from Haymaker?

that blessing specifically says that certain other on hit effects won't trigger from instant kill

[bronze glade]

i thought that was fixed?

[charred bronze]

yeah, maybe all it borrows is the prohibition on on kill effects. It definitely does damage. Short term DPS spikes in casual testing were significantly higher overall with both H-V and H-C than without.

[charred bronze]

no idea. My current melee build doesn't have H-C. I'm kinda reluctant to trust Psychanium testing at this point

[fallen void]

whats the 2nd best melee after shivs

[final temple]

taxe maybe? combat blade?

[fallen void]

and for a melee centric build that still holds up?

[final temple]

I heard good things about the taxe.

[fallen void]

hm

i'll consider

[fallen void]

what about chainaxe?

[bronze glade]

chaxe is pretty high up there

though rashad is king

followed by shivs

then idk

[final temple]

no idea. Last time I touched it was all the way back when I leveled zealot. and I was chastised for using a bad weapon. But I think it's solid now

[bronze glade]

it's very good now

was buffed quite a bit

[fallen void]

alright

hm

[charred bronze]

I prefer taxe to shivs tbh. Shivs have better single target, but taxe spam is easy and satisfying, and much more effective horde clear, comparatively

[bronze glade]

i really like shivs

very simple, effective

[charred bronze]

mk7 anyway. mk4 seems to have near shiv single target, but is also more similar to shivs in horde clear. A little better horde clear, a little worse single target.

ime anyway

[dim moth]

worlds best mid tier

[fallen void]

chaxe taxe shivs

ok

thanks

[bronze glade]

nah

[charred bronze]

combat axe > chaxe imo

[bronze glade]

i mean the thing is nearly rashad level

of horde clear

obviously rashad still better

but that's just rashad

[charred bronze]

combat axe is actually excellent, and kills faster than the taxe if you don't mind the mobility loss

[fallen void]

so i need

ok

i got it

thanks for the input

[charred bronze]

they're all good and very viable

it's largely down to feel and preferences, I don't think there's a best choice, per se

[charred bronze]

post buffs, it's a better weapon. Has a ponderous feel to me that I don't enjoy though

[chrome cloud]

Need some advice. Im not sure how to properly do stimmed and alchemist penances. i got both to 144 out of 1000/2000. I have not been able to increase either of these. what am i doing wrong?

[dim moth]

they are bugged and only track progress when you lose max stacks

so if you are at max stacks for an entire mission from the first time you hit it you don't get progress

you have to lose at least one stack for it to count

[chrome cloud]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhh

[dim moth]

oh also stimm supply makes it very easy to keep at max if that's a problem

[chrome cloud]

okay, ill wait for them to be fixed then, tyvm for that update! i was going crazy trying to figure it out.

[trim wind]

just let a stack drop on purpose

[fallen void]

best stub pistol blessings?

[dim moth]

I mean lettin g one stack drop on purpose is hardly a tall ask

[plucky nymph]

Despacito and I been using run n gun because it has huge headshot multipliers and it is very noticeable at anything not very very close range

The guns suck so much that in h40 when I run speedload, I barely get beyond like 2 or 3 stacks per reload 😆

[slow agate]

Can anyone help better explain the trait "Hyper -Violence"

[fast surge]

Killing an enemy with any attack adds a flat damage bonus to subsequent melee attacks for 1s; does not proc on instakills caused by Hyper-Critical and the Haymaker weapon blessing. The flat amount of bonus damage carried over is 25% of the difference between the enemy's health when killed and the attack's damage dealt. The active duration can be refreshed only if the overkill damage amount that is supposed to be carried over to the next melee attack is greater than the overkill damage amount that was carried over on the previous proc.

Consult Kuli's guide for more talent explanations

[slow agate]

thank you

[glacial gyro]

So hyperviolence and hypercritical have antisynergy

[tropic crag]

kind of... more like just no synergy, either one happens or the other

so its the sort of thing you do if you have the points and want to

[glacial gyro]

its antisynergy because the duration on hyperviolence is really short, so a lucky crit will actually end it

and once it ends, your crits get less powerful

[tropic crag]

yeah but the crit tends to do the same thing and if we're being super serious it ends on its own all the time

so either one is happening or the other... either way things are getting mulched

i wouldn't ever take both buf if someone wants to i won't get mad lol

[glacial gyro]

well thats my point, don't take both

[tropic crag]

i think don't take hypercrit on melee builds personally, it has waaaaay more problems then messing with hv

hypercrit is good for ranged focused builds

like you trade multiple on kill effects firing for something you already do, which is kill things

so you trade stuff to get the same thing you already have

[fast surge]

Hypercrit is melee only

[tropic crag]

but i might be wrong

[tropic crag]

yes

[glacial gyro]

so hypercritical works on ranged attacks and hyperviolence doesnt

im glad it says that in the node descriptions

[tropic crag]

you take it to make your melee kill when are ranged focused and don't have alot of melee support

[glacial gyro]

that might get confusing otherwise

[fast surge]

If you are ranged focused you don't even need to use your melee

[tropic crag]

hypercrit is just a single node that fakes what alot of the rest of the tree already does if you're focusing melee... so if you are melee focus you go hv and take all the melee support

[tropic crag]

yeah i'm ignoring how broken VD is atm and just talking about actual design of the skill

hypercrit is for ranged builds, its meant as a node to give enough melee support in like 2 nodes (the attack speed node before it also) to not leave the scum high and dry if they go full ranged and have to use their melee

its why hypercrit has so many things that just don't work with the rest of the tree

because its meant to be taken if you are taking zero other melee support nodes

if you take it on a melee build then you are trading a bunch of procs all the time to gain... the ablity to kill things in melee

which you already do in spades

[brave beacon]

ben dealing with life and been away for a few days any change to the class?

[tropic crag]

everything should be the same besides maybe a couple of bug fixes

vultures dodge still op, melee scum is still fun

[dim moth]

I use it on tox build since I don't have base damage anyways

I should try hyper violence tho to see if that's better

[tropic crag]

i use hyperviolence with my bonesaw

like keep the attack speed node near hypercrit, but even with bonesaw i prefer HV myself

[brave beacon]

cultures still out shines chem depend?

[tropic crag]

i think people have been using chem dep and having fun with it, but yeah vultures is like... overtuned atm so its outshining everything

but you see alot less of it now

because people got bored with it pretty quick for the most part so i see more melee scum running around

i haven't been looking at the havoc scene tho so maybe they are still more up there

[tranquil fjord]

vulture's dodge feels inconsistent some

[ancient basin]

vultures dodge is bugged atm so far as I know

[zealous ravine]

😨 ? is that true

[ancient basin]

right as you proc it you can get hit still, so multiply that by the rapid crit fire from autos and you are in a strange spot sometimes

every reproc leaves you open very very briefly

but if you are sliding and dodging its hard to notice

the desperado build overall is very straight forward and easy to use comparatively when its fully talented

shoot gun, kill specials, win

https://tenor.com/view/ork-boy-warhammer-40k-dakka-slugga-shooting-gif-7729178731978723876

[zealous ravine]

how convenient that they have a 2nd source of ranged immunity lmao

[winter galleon]

Ive played all 3 scum ults but always go back to desperado simply because if want to melee or support id rather psyker, vet, zealot scum is when i want to just blaze it

[zealous ravine]

melee psyker is wild yea

[ancient basin]

Melee scum is counter intuitive in its rampage use cases in my experience. You have to be very patient and wait for stuff to be up close as you are terrible at long distance chase

rampage on the defence is stronger than on offence

[zealous ravine]

kinda sad neither arby nor hive got a melee as cool as the greatswords

but is what it is

[ancient basin]

chain pike would be cool

[zealous ravine]

i googled that to find an img and uh

close enough

[tropic crag]

? i just hit f when need tough or am close enough to bonk bonk

i mostly use rampage exactly like ogryn taunt or like i use break the line on arby... at least as to when i use them

[astral sundial]

Hey, which brauto should I go for if I want to try that one on my Desp build?

(also whats the dump?)

[bronze glade]

Agri

Mob dump

[brave beacon]

i agree it works grate until suddenly it dont

[astral sundial]

Or should I take an infantry auto instead?

[bronze glade]

IAG's prob stronger

[little laurel]

For Infantry autogun, what do people like to run with it?

[bronze glade]

but brauto is fun

[brave beacon]

Needle gun?

[astral sundial]

What blesses and perks would you say?

[bronze glade]

vraks unyielding + crit chance dumdum + fire frenzy

[brave beacon]

vracks mk V dumb dumb and frenzy

[astral sundial]

Unyielding and crit ? Not flak?

[brave beacon]

i have found better luck with Maniac damage and flak damage

[little laurel]

I assume Flak and Maniac?

[brave beacon]

\yes

[winter galleon]

Its preference i was flak believer but swapped to unyielding after being convinced that genocide againsy bulwarks is more worth

[little laurel]

Why Mk V?

And is there a place to find what all the different Mks do?

[brave beacon]

With the IAG the Things that eat the most bullets Crusher is not included are muties Metal Rangers and mallers

[brave beacon]

most bullets in mag and bace crit

[brave beacon]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/weapons

[bronze glade]

flak is fine too

i just prefer unyielding because i hate bulwarks

[astral sundial]

Whats the diff between IAG and Brauto?

[tropic crag]

bulwarks are more an annoyance than a real problem

[bronze glade]

that's fine. i think crit chance is important on vraks due to crit strings tho

[bronze glade]

IAGs are just better basically lol

[winter galleon]

Mobility vs raw damage

[bronze glade]

brautos are high capacity with focus on raw damage, and cant' ADS

terrible dodges

IAGs are lower capacity, with super fast reloads, and focus on finesse damage

normal dodges

IAGs have way more damage potential overall

[winter galleon]

Also like being able to aim

Even if iron sights are atrocious

[brave beacon]

i run black out grenade almost exclusively for them toss one at there feat and thay expose there belly for you to rub with your bullets

[tropic crag]

that and the knockdown shout on rampage can help cull them yeah

[cyan siren]

iag is second image

they do essentially the same damage but infantry weakspots and crits are just better

[stone crater]

hm yes mobility

[brave beacon]

time to hit hadron

[astral canyon]

does anyone have a gif of the hive scum in the intro cutscene using the rocket launcher on a single heretic

[stone crater]

or we could leave it like this :3

[icy scaffold]

Reject IAG, embrace Shredder

[astral canyon]

i need it for reasons

[brave beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/getout-gif-16327023334064302194

[stone crater]

this is braced tho

[icy scaffold]

Oh I like the braced Graia better ngl

[fiery palm]

Shredder autopistol is nuts. I disliked it at first but now it feels like S tier

[fierce python]

IAG supremacy on hive scum makes me feel like I'm not special anymore for playing IAG psyker

[stone crater]

that's the plan, this is just what we just got out of the box

[brave beacon]

only thing shreder has going for it is the ability to do dmg at range

[icy scaffold]

Dual Uzis still feel the best imo, but I gotta build a proper IAG and shredder before I can really decide

Bolt pistol is also a fun time for desperado

[astral sundial]

IAG desperado is definetly fun

feels weird compared to uzis though lol

[icy scaffold]

#givescumreconlas

[astral sundial]

THAT would be fun

[dawn portal]

Pretty sure fat shark purposely didnt cuz it doesnt fit the low tech asthetic

[tropic crag]

pretty sure las ammo would be hard to get for gangers

harder than slugs at least

[icy scaffold]

I mean they can get a bolt pistol so

[flat mist]

Inb4 they give us recons but burn damage doesn't proc any of our talents

[brave beacon]

maxed out uzis vs maxed out vrax MK 5... Uzis have truble killing a muti mid charge Vrax dose not

[brave beacon]

in lore laz ammo packs could be refuled by throwing them in a camp fire for a few hours

[tropic crag]

lol bolt guns makes more sense, yeah alot harder to get when you're a ganger but you don't use it for every day stuff... thats when you need to open a really big can of worms... where as las weapons would be alot of trouble to source the ammo and maintain them AND they aren't better than your slug weapons

[tropic crag]

yeah i just don't think they're finding that many las weapons in the city

[little laurel]

Oh wow, godsend, thank you!

[brave beacon]

this is true but we dont work for the BIG T any longer now that we on the ship

[icy scaffold]

Uzis kill them pretty fast wdym

[tropic crag]

true, but at that point i think they'd just want to use what they're use to or would want to use

[fiery palm]

yeah but that also decreases their service life

[brave beacon]

the damage on vrax mk V is significant compared to uzis

[fiery palm]

you can do that in a pinch but you'd be destroying the economy of laser weaponry

[brave beacon]

shrug

[tropic crag]

where as slug weapons you just need a bullet press and the materials and you can crank out more in a shed

[brave beacon]

do you think a hive scum / ganger would care that much?

[fiery palm]

if they're buying them yes? that would be the paramount concern

if bullets are readily available but the lasgun has a handful of powerpacks that are all absolute lemons

[brave beacon]

hive scum buying things... dont be silly (im kidding)

[tropic crag]

i get the feeling they're being paid after from what some of them say... except the anarchist i'm not sure he's getting paid or if he's just doing it for fun

[brave beacon]

i for one am glad the scum only has bullet whepions... leave the flashlights to the vets

[icy scaffold]

Also yeah the cartels control literally everything in the underhive. Water, trains, foundries, getting some lasguns really wouldn’t be that hard

[brave beacon]

I KNOW I KNOW PRESENTS FOR EVREYONE!

[tropic crag]

i feel like in all the hive city stuff in 40k i've seen i rarely see lasguns

i love when the anarchist laments that he kind of likes the enemies but he doesn't think they'll get along on account of them having to die

[icy scaffold]

Also why no flamer

[brave beacon]

one thing about the rotters they sure do know how to organize... is one of my fave lines

fire is holy?

[tropic crag]

tox flamer would have been funny... and broken

[brave beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/um-no-speechless-nathan-fillion-gif-13771019

ok i know i have been singing the prases of the vrax mk V but why do we hate the columnus again? is it the ammo capasity?

smaller dodge distance too

[wise sorrel]

okay what the fuck is going on with the "enhanced" penance
my bar isnt going up

i have 50% allocation and i pop it when im low on toughness

[brave beacon]

ima have to look that one up

[wise sorrel]

"replenish 2600 toughness with 50% viscocity" or something

while under the effect of that stimm

[brave beacon]

did you forget you need at least 50% viscosity in your cartel special?

[wise sorrel]

thats what i have

the 50% viscocity with a maxed out toughness tree

[low harbor]

Use ur stim while ur toughness is below 50% of max

And make your stim replenish both 25% of max toughness

[spark gyro]

game wacky

[brave beacon]

google has failed me and im not logged in to see if i have it unlocked

[wise sorrel]

welp i tried that and i am now down because i stopped killin to let them hit me

[tender forge]

played auric game, mid clutch

GUID: b70687cd-c61e-4180-a972-16e6b7a174ba
Log File:
Info Type:

[Script Error]: scripts/foundation/managers/package/package_manager.lua:502: Trying to unload resource #ID[63bb2c7a7376e6d0].#ID[a8193123526fad64] that's used elsewhere by the engine, refcount: 4

[bronze glade]

F

[wise sorrel]

god damn it I just want a shirt, why is this so hard

[tender forge]

no mods cuz update unenabled my mods

[winter galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/hamster-wheel-run-gif-10746499

game trying its best

[tender forge]

thats enough for today

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/script-error-crash/115977

time to verify game files I fuess

[astral sundial]

Uzi's feel way better to use for me :/

[tropic crag]

push dodge back and left or right, and press the stim while doing the dodge

[icy scaffold]

Try the Shredder and see if that fits better. It’s pretty nice that all of the guns are pretty good on desperado scum

[bronze glade]

mini vraks

[spark bough]

Death Spitter or Ceaseless Barrage on Braced? Death spitter seems a little bit nicer especially vs nurgle blessed.

[placid prairie]

Use the share stim ability

Other people getting toughness regen off it will count for you

[tropic crag]

what heavy sword mark do people like, or is it a choose your own adventure sort of thing

[limber cradle]

Ive fucked around with vraks and shredder and prefer the macs still tbh

[haughty slate]

I was REALLY hoping bolt pistol + desperado would work but reloading every 8 BULLETS ain't it

[zealous ravine]

point click adventure

[limber cradle]

I like their inherent mobility

[zealous ravine]

i usually use heavy sword IX

[haughty slate]

I just like the scum makes the shredder a top tier weapon

[dim moth]

why not use +15% clip size so it's every nine bullets instead

[tropic crag]

might try it first, testing them in the meat grinder atm

[haughty slate]

wait, you're cooking

[tropic crag]

the attack pattern on the VII hsword are crazy

[low harbor]

That makes it 10

Rounds up

[tropic crag]

i like the other 2 marks tho

[limber cradle]

Holy shit

10 round bolt pistol?

[zealous ravine]

holy hell new meta

[low harbor]

I honestly think boltpistol should be 10r default

But maybe just me

[tropic crag]

naw its great at default, i use them alot in other classes

[limber cradle]

I imagine it'd feel better

[low harbor]

It’s one of the worst designed guns in the game

[limber cradle]

I like the

How do I put this

The sound and feeling of it

[haughty slate]

it would be better if they just gave it some friggin uptime

[dim moth]

oh my god the magazine is extended

[tropic crag]

on the human side of the things the only guns i like are the heavy las pistol and the bolt pistol... and now the needlegun

[haughty slate]

aesthetically it's great... it feels punchy when you use it

but you spend half your time reloading

[limber cradle]

At least the reload anim is stylish

[haughty slate]

if only it was 50% faster

[tropic crag]

because its a really good sidearm, if you're a melee focused player its kind of the perfect gun and the reload time is whatever

because if you're using more than a mag in a fight you've messed up

[limber cradle]

I like it for mobility on arb tbh

[haughty slate]

I have a ranged vet build that uses the revolver as its main weapon. It oneshots everything and with all your reload talents you have insane uptime on it.

[tropic crag]

its also got a lot of good stopping points so if you can only do partial reloads its one of the easier weapons to do that on

[haughty slate]

Just sucks you can't do something like that for scumer

[low harbor]

It’s horrible

[limber cradle]

It looks cool, spin the mag

[tropic crag]

but you give it a slap

[limber cradle]

Throw it around a lil

[low harbor]

All flair no substance

[limber cradle]

I'm a sucker for style points

Hey man

[low harbor]

Just put the mag in my dude

[limber cradle]

Style>Substance

[tropic crag]

naw honestly i choose alot of ways i approach a fight based off of how cool i feel doing it, so i'd rather the flair, that reload is a great animation at the end of a fight

[zealous ravine]

guns need aura or i just wont wanna use them

[limber cradle]

You gotta look good while you're doing something even if it's suboptimal

Otherwise there's no point

[zealous ravine]

its why dual stubbers is by far the best ranged wep i nthis gam 🔥 🔥 hype and aura

[limber cradle]

You're goddamn right

[tropic crag]

the true end game of darktide is trying to look cool while doing things tbh

[zealous ravine]

it also has a special that does something

which is rare for guns

[low harbor]

All that style point is lost when u hit a flamer for 1311 in the head with maniac perk

[tropic crag]

ogryn specials do things, ones even a flashlight

[bronze glade]

drip or die

[low harbor]

It’s genuinely one of the worst designed guns in the game

[tropic crag]

i really hate using the bolt gun tbh, it makes me look dumb because i'll try to quick draw it in melee combat and get hit in the face

[limber cradle]

Look

Maybe Nurgle has a point

Maybe worship isn't that bad if it lets you tank bolt rounds and plasma shots to the head

[low harbor]

yk what the actual worst part abt this is

this is not even enough dmg to 1 headshot trapper in havoc

trapper gets 1350

[limber cradle]

Lmfao

[low harbor]

literally worst designed gun in the game

bar none

abysmal dogshit

[zealous ravine]

just join the warband instead and a bistol shot to the head would do like 50 tgh dmg lmao

[low harbor]

and they made mk VI as a way to improve upon abysmal dogshit

[dim moth]

if it were not for lethal proximity I would never even think about the bolt pistol xd

[low harbor]

to create (abysmal dogshit)^2

[limber cradle]

I still don't get the new bolt weapons outside fatshark appeasing the "why bolts no explode" people

[dim moth]

I think new bolter is usable

less recoil while hipfiring and the explosion does just significant enough damage to outright kill fodder ranged enemies when clearing gunner/shotgunner packs

[limber cradle]

Tbh I am not a bolter guy, things way too clunky for me

Which is kinda a shame?

Its defo the best feeling bolter in a 40k game

[dim moth]

I like the bolter but I prefer helbore in the same role so

rip bozo

[limber cradle]

I don't like HB either tbh

When I play vet it's normally IAG of some flavor or Combat Shotty

[tropic crag]

whelp time to try heavy sword after blindly slapping together a build

[bronze glade]

hey it's not bad on desperado hiv

i cast explosion

[zealous ravine]

bistol is just a stat stick by this point

[knotty gyro]

Damn is hivescum class really that bad

[charred bronze]

not at all, it's actually quite strong.

[dawn portal]

Its pretty strong IMO, just not tanky like Arby is

[fast surge]

Lol where did you hear it's bad

DAP Desperado is bonkers strong

[charred bronze]

vulturado can be extremely hard to kill, as long as your positioning is good and you're shooting

and you'll be pumping massive dps the whole time

[knotty gyro]

I saw a YouTuber yapping about how bad hivescum damage output is

[charred bronze]

and you can kill entire groups of crushers with a single blitz

lol

that guy is a fucking idiot

[dawn portal]

yeah I guess what I mean is that you cant just mash left click in a horde and be invincible like arby.

[charred bronze]

and you should unsub and tell youtube to not recommend that channel

scum is competitive with the S tier classes in the game in terms of raw output

[knotty gyro]

Oh is hivescum the best class now

[tropic crag]

so i've played alot of arby, and i let my penances come naturally... i just got untouchable face tanking in auric with a melee rampage scum... the class is still pretty tanky

[charred bronze]

broken shit like flame psyker

[fast surge]

Yeah that guy must be on some fent himself

[fast surge]

Insert always has been meme here

[tropic crag]

got it yesterday, i got hit plenty but never took health damage because of the toughness regen

[knotty gyro]

Last time I was playing veteran was the best class in game

With plasma cannon and dueling sword

[charred bronze]

best? Psyker is probably the best class right now, but not because of its raw dps output, but because it offers massive dps output and tools that make success easier to obtain for the squad

[tropic crag]

oggy has been the best class since launch, no one is nearly as big

[fast surge]

Vet hasn't been the best class since before talent tree reworks

[charred bronze]

but scum is strong af if specced and played well. Certain talents are arguably brokenly good

on an individual basis

[tropic crag]

vulture dodge mostly but also the ammo one

[bronze glade]

there aren't many credible YTers

[fast surge]

I'd argue pickpocket is stronger than VD

[charred bronze]

desperado will die a fast death if they nerf pickpocket too hard

[bronze glade]

prob the most overrated combo in the game tbh

[charred bronze]

it enabled VD to work well

VD only works if you can be shooting essentially all the time

half of scums unique weapons are also s tier

[tropic crag]

i wouldn't call that broken, thats just the dueling sword

[charred bronze]

daps and shivs are extremely good

needler is s tier

[tropic crag]

dueling sword is just good in the hands of all classes because its the dueling sword

[charred bronze]

it's very easy to use massive single target damage

it takes a decent amount of skill to not be kind of useless in a horde with it

[bronze glade]

dsword isn't even that good on vet

[charred bronze]

oh that reminds me

[bronze glade]

it shines on psyker because psyker

[tropic crag]

its just that good lol

[charred bronze]

I've never used the devil's claw

[limber cradle]

There's no class i take DS on first choice tbh

[charred bronze]

I got a perfect one in the shop

[grand jewel]

Psword exists on vet so I'd just never take DS

[bronze glade]

it's good but not THE melee weapon like sloptubers make it out to be

[tropic crag]

psyker because scriers gaze builds are fun

[limber cradle]

FGS

[charred bronze]

I know riposte special is its whole thing. What kinda perks/blessings do people use on it?

force greatsword is incredible

just, ridiculous

not only does it kill like a relic blade, but it charges up an aoe killing blast? c'mon

[limber cradle]

I'm not playing the moonlight greatsword class and not using moonlight greatsword

[tropic crag]

bro i could fight nurgle himself with that sword, it is one of the most player skill rewarding weapons in the game to the point where i play classes i never touch just to have fun on it (psyker lol)

[charred bronze]

and a ranged push

[tropic crag]

its just like salty's rapier in vt2

its like a "how good are you at aiming in melee" the weapon

[bronze glade]

the real problem is that vet doesn't have a source of good, constant horde clear except for options in the melee slot

[charred bronze]

power sword feels like trash to play. I'll use it on vet, but I don't have to like it

[bronze glade]

you can't just rely on frags the entire game for horde clera lol

[tropic crag]

bro it does horde clear, just hit the heads

[bronze glade]

psyker on the other hand

has a lot of horde clear

[limber cradle]

Feels worse than Saltz rapier

[bronze glade]

even outside of melee

[grand jewel]

I hate it when the things I attack die

shit weapon

[bronze glade]

let's be real the horde clear is pretty ass

[charred bronze]

It's an amazing weapon