hivescum-class

[lilac ermine]

I saw ppl get mad at someone with title

[brittle sierra]

it is an easy title to get if you pay someone tbh

[astral canyon]

either toughness regen during adrenaline or +15% damage vs elite/monstrosity

[lilac ermine]

Pay someone? 🤣

[astral sundial]

This, with Saw and Needlepistol?

Any constructive criticism?

[lilac ermine]

Pickpocket?

[brittle sierra]

thats.....a build

[brittle sierra]

constructive no

THIS BUILD FUCKING

[astral sundial]

Is that.... positive ?

XDD

[brittle sierra]

i mean Ive seen worse tbh so

eh

😔

[light sorrel]

melee crit

[brittle sierra]

what is this build trying to do?

[astral sundial]

I just wanna run around like a maniac, tox things up and watch them explode

and meele my way through massive hordes

[brittle sierra]

yeah but what melee weapon?

[astral sundial]

But i AM thinking of maybe replacing the saw with the shiv

[spiral horizon]

yeah shivs are clearly the meta choice atm

[astral sundial]

Im running Saw and Needle atm

[brittle sierra]

this is a horrible build for saw tbh

[mighty belfry]

Saw isn't that good on rampage tbh

[brittle sierra]

saw only cares about crit and cleave, nothing else

[lilac ermine]

Also maybe node above hyperviolence everyone takes

[brittle sierra]

maybe attack speed

[mighty belfry]

It's solely a chemist build sorta weapon honestly

Because a lot of the damage tends to come from the DoTs and rampage will only affect melee damage.

[brittle sierra]

saw is unforutanly in a weird spot atm because it absolutely is horrific into mixed hordes

if there is one mauler in the horde, you are fucked

[mighty belfry]

It's honestly okay with deci and shock and awe tbh

But it just is not the best choice for Rampage on a fundamental level

[astral sundial]

Okay, then what should I try and change?

[brittle sierra]

well what weapon are you using first off

[astral sundial]

Still saw and needle.

I kinda like the combo ^^'

[mighty belfry]

Go heavy on Chem synergy then

[brittle sierra]

I mean if you really want to stay with saw, then I would do a crate build

[mighty belfry]

Probably don't even wanna use rampage at this point

[low harbor]

Superiority opportunist

[mighty belfry]

Crate's just better for it.

[astral sundial]

[low harbor]

I tried bash and TaS but crowbar is just not a push atk single target weapon

[astral sundial]

and for my current build, what weapons would be your recommendation?

[brittle sierra]

for saw I prob would so something like this:

[pallid quail]

is anyone else bothered by chem dep not being centered ?

[mighty belfry]

Honestly. Rampage makes any melee weapon work. Saw is just a particular case because of the DoTs.

Shivs, combat knife, tac axe, combat axe are all pretty nice choices for that.

[tight musk]

With superiority, adrenaline and rampage going, I do about 3.5k damage to a crusher on a head crit in normal mode on heavy 1, which can then be quickly looped back to if you just do one light attack follow up.

[elder oasis]

I thought I was the only one

[spiral horizon]

ah that's what I'm running atm, thinking about trying can-opener

though I have noticed sometimes swapping modes on crowbar has the input get kinda eaten

[low harbor]

I tried it but it’s not as good as opportunist because most of the carapace damage is on beak heavy

[mighty belfry]

Eh... shred don't feel that good for saw ime

It really likes having as much cleave as you can give it.

[brittle sierra]

decimator unfortunately doesn't increase dot damage so its a pass for me

you might as well take wrath if you want more cleave

[mighty belfry]

Decimator also actually gives it horde clear and raw damage as opposed to shred which just helps a bit with DoT stacking. Shred in theory should feel better than it is for this weapon but it just falls short for me.

[brittle sierra]

actually wait, does wrath make the mixed horde killing bearable @low harbor ?

[foggy phoenix]

I run 3 stam curios on the saw

For the funni +26% attack speed using that talent node near the left keystone

[brittle sierra]

but why do I care about raw damage on saw?

[foggy phoenix]

Just don't get hit™

[mighty belfry]

So the thing you're hitting, dies.

[karmic panther]

Are dual autopistols viable to like

solely main

I love the dual stub but the dual autopistols feel GOOD

[mighty belfry]

The weapon already does a lot of DoT damage. Why not make the actual thing also do more damage? And cleave. And stagger.

[brittle sierra]

then why not take rampage?

oh wait that's right, all of saw's damage comes from the crit

[low harbor]

No it’s just ass period

[foggy phoenix]

Arguably the weapon of choice when running desp

[low harbor]

No rager or mauler stagger

[brittle sierra]

what about decimator?

[karmic panther]

Oh how peak

[low harbor]

Also ass on mixed horde lol

[brittle sierra]

can dec give you impact I am curious

[low harbor]

Again no rager/mauler stagger

[brittle sierra]

because if dec gives you impact to deal with ragers, I'll take it in a heart beat

[low harbor]

It does

[broken moss]

I run the saw. and it wrecks. run what you enjoy

[low harbor]

But not enough to matter

lol

[brittle sierra]

wdym?

[sturdy linden]

Both Shred and Deci work on Saw. It actually has pretty good crit damage so Shred is great for hit damage as well as tox

[low harbor]

Dude I wrote out entire section on stagger

[foggy phoenix]

If saw didn't stick to the enemy like one of the ChAxe marks on lights, it would've been so good

[low harbor]

U have direct access

[broken moss]

might have to give that a shot again. I was never fully impressed by it

[brittle sierra]

yes I am aware of how stagger works, but what is the breakpoint of bonesaw?

[sturdy linden]

Idk why people feel this, it really doesn't to me. It just has a different impact feel. Only the h1 actually sticks.

[low harbor]

The only atk that can stagger rager is heavy1, which is a sticky atk

The others are too far off

[brittle sierra]

wait what if we just dont use saw 🛌🏻

[mighty belfry]

I'll be real. It feels like it catches hard on lights without any help with cleave

[sturdy linden]

No

[brittle sierra]

as much as I like the idea, I gotta stop coping eventually 😔

[sturdy linden]

Saw good

[foggy phoenix]

The H1 sticking is like the Chword special, the L1s sticking is like the ChAxe L1s

[azure mist]

Saw is fun but it’s move set and blessing pool generally gimps it

Hard

[mighty belfry]

I'm not saying it's bad. I actually like the saw but I am not going to ignore the lights feeling like pure ass for cleave

[agile spindle]

Wheres my neural whip bruh. Whyd they add a fucking crowbar and not a neural whip

[low harbor]

Bonesaw trades away too much that makes melee weapons good, to be a dot weapon

https://tenor.com/view/worstdealever-gif-23135064

[mighty belfry]

The best thing you can really do with bone saw is try to use the blessings to make up for how much it gives up for that niche lol

[icy scaffold]

Take the talent that applies toxin on crits and then just stay in Brittleness mode

[azure mist]

It’s kinda crazy how Shivs, Knife, Taxe do saws job better

[low harbor]

Brittleness doesn’t even do much for chem toxin

[mighty belfry]

Shit is horrible for horde clear

[azure mist]

On a chemist build

[foggy phoenix]

I just want it to have a moveset comparable to the heavy sword, with the only sticky attacks being heavies

[mighty belfry]

Brittleness toxin is so unbelievably niche

[versed spruce]

I find it funny how there's brittleness mode on the same weapon that has a DoT that is 90-100% ADM for every single armor type

[low harbor]

high ADMs across the board for chem toxin

[foggy phoenix]

You can out-DoT a saw with critspam shivs

[azure mist]

Notice toxin doesnt eventually bell curve

[versed spruce]

Oh right, more than 100%

[low harbor]

It’s the only linear dot

[mighty belfry]

You can literally just throw Chem knives too lmao

[azure mist]

It’s just linear that’s it

[foggy phoenix]

Only reason I see for people to run the saw is for running without the tox-on-crit node

[azure mist]

Which is fucking insane

[icy scaffold]

You don’t even need the DoT on shives since you can just use its special to dot the enemy and immediately get a knife back when you stab said enemy to death

[mighty belfry]

They do so many stacks. It's dumb.

[foggy phoenix]

Best part is you get 1 refunded throwing knife per special/elite kill, so unless you're killing crushers, you'll always get a free throw on everything you stab into

[versed spruce]

90-250% on every armor type and it is linear and gets applied very easily by multiple things in the tree/weapons

Chem toxin is like someone's fucking anime OC but as a DoT

[mighty belfry]

It shocks me how many people ignore those knives

[icy scaffold]

Crushers refund 2 knives so you can slap them twice with the toxin

[mighty belfry]

Blades of Faith WISH they could do what those knives can

They are so powerful lmao

[versed spruce]

BoF still have instant kills over Shiv knives on some enemies, at least

[foggy phoenix]

I just throw all 3

[mighty belfry]

Not only that but those knives are also a very good enabler for hyperviolence

[versed spruce]

Still funny that they gave throwing knives to a weapon that's already strong enough to not need it

[icy scaffold]

2 plus a 2-3 heavies is plenty for a crusher iirc

[versed spruce]

Where is the love for dclaw?

[azure mist]

Lmao that’s a perfect way to put it

[foggy phoenix]

Could've literally been exclusive for the saw ngl

[astral canyon]

right behind you

[foggy phoenix]

Get rid of the brittleness gimmick on the saw

Give it throwing tox shivs

[azure mist]

That and now dodging is insanely overpowered even ineffective

[foggy phoenix]

Remove the throwing tox knives from the shivs

[mighty belfry]

You know the funny thing about the dodge bug

The better you are at the game, the less you actually notice that bug being there.

[foggy phoenix]

Why would anyone even use the brittleness mode on the saw

[mighty belfry]

The only justifiable reason I see for it is bosses

[foggy phoenix]

When the DoT will kill even crushers in a similar, if not faster time frame

[foggy phoenix]

Human bosses only ever wear flak unless it's the twins and their helmets.
Everyone else is unyielding

[mighty belfry]

Unyielding is still affected by brittleness

[foggy phoenix]

Or or

I could just

Stack tox

[livid raven]

Start stacking toxin

[mighty belfry]

It's more for team tbh

But honestly, even that being a reason

Isn't the strongest one

[livid raven]

Brittleness mode has its moments but

[foggy phoenix]

Team brittleness on a boss seems... Niche as shit

[livid raven]

You are not doing anything wrong if you don't use it

[foggy phoenix]

Esp since you'd expect most havoc viable builds to have a reliable way of killing bosses relatively quickly

[mighty belfry]

Tbf, brittleness helps in havoc more than anything

[livid raven]

Or rely on the local hobo with an hammer

[mighty belfry]

Because the health pools are actually noticeably higher and unless someone has a full on boss killer burst build like thammer, it's noticeable enough for brittleness to matter.

[azure mist]

I only noticed when Ainz brought it up to me LMAO

And I was like why did they do this?

Like this isn’t going to teach people how to effectively dodge

[spiral horizon]

also enjoying Hsword scum, the anemic carapace damage hasn't bothered me much yet

[foggy phoenix]

Not enough bolters/pswords in the squad

[tight musk]

This is without hyper-violence going.

[pallid quail]

a whip would be sick. imagine the janky physics they could give it

[spiral horizon]

welcome back VT2 crowbill (wrong mode for the comparison to work but whatever)

[versed spruce]

Would just throw things around forever instead of killing them

[mighty belfry]

All they had to do, was change Nimble. Maybe specifically have that talent make your dodge linger work against ranged but with the limitation of it falling off on ineffective dodges

[versed spruce]

Smite but make it a melee weapon

[agile spindle]

I wanted more badass warhammer shit like the fuckin neural whip or the insane shit they have on necromunda

[astral sundial]

Are they better than the dual stubs? because im currently running dual stubs on my desp build

[mighty belfry]

But no. They just gave that to every fucking human class and forgot to do something about the linger state on ineffective dodges.

[spiral horizon]

I just want a polearm maaaaan

[mighty belfry]

Like how did they manage that?

[foggy phoenix]

The pain is self-inflicted.

[pallid quail]

what even is this dodge bug ? ive played a decent amount this week and havent noticed anything unusual

[versed spruce]

Dual stubs are weaker than dual autopistols for desperado

[dim moth]

tbh they didn't have to do anything other than specify melee dodge duration in Nimble's talent xd

[dim moth]

dodge linger applies to ranged enemies now

[astral sundial]

Noted. What dump am i looking for on the autopistols?

[spiral horizon]

hot take but dual stubs would've been better if they were glocks

[dim moth]

aka ranged enemies ain't SHIT

[mighty belfry]

It seems like they really did want to adjust nimble itself

Which, that would have sufficed.

[versed spruce]

Collateral or Mobility, but on a Desp build you should dump Collateral because you'll be immune to ranged attacks most of the time anyway

[mighty belfry]

Not, whatever the hell they managed to pull off here

[versed spruce]

And on some enemies (reaper especially), suppressing them makes it harder to kill them

[dim moth]

It's so hilarious that they see Nimble inadvertently making dodges slightly worse into ranged enemies

And their solution to it is not to change Nimble itself

[pallid quail]

i think glocks would be considered sacred archaeotech by the mechanicum

[dim moth]

But to make ranged dodge linger that has been dead code since the games inception functional all of a sudden

[vast yoke]

anyone figured out some quirked up despo builds with any of the combat shotguns or nah

[pallid quail]

ah ive mostly been on ogryn hence why i didnt notice

[vast yoke]

what abt vigilant autoguns

[foggy phoenix]

Assuming the plastic would last that long

[mighty belfry]

You know. I wonder if they just didn't realize why it was coded that way to begin with.

[agile spindle]

[versed spruce]

Equip desperado
Equip shotgun
Quite shrimple

[pallid quail]

you say that as if it was a tec9

[astral sundial]

Noted. Thanks

[mighty belfry]

And when they did, they were like "oh. That's why linger doesn't work with ranged attacks"

[vast yoke]

ofc, but is it any good? i dont wanna invest 1400 diamantine for a reload all game simulator if its not even fun

[dim moth]

Yeah like I kinda get the logic but BOY was that a bad decision

Oh well

Far worse things to be stuck with for the holiday season

[versed spruce]

Not sure about super optimal, but tbh I'm sure it'd be good

[mighty belfry]

Like for the most part, I barely notice it because I'm pretty apt about not getting caught off guard by guns

[spiral horizon]

double barrel desperado is goated

[manic wolf]

It will be reload simulator

[pallid quail]

tbh i figure youd be better off with a dbarrel

[vast yoke]

true. already run that time to time tho

[versed spruce]

I tried it and the first interaction I got into was a big wave of maulers

[vast yoke]

db prob better

[mighty belfry]

But for people who are starting off? Oh God things are gonna get bad when this gets fixed.

[versed spruce]

I unloaded my desperado into them and got like one kill

[pallid quail]

thats all desperado builds thoughever

[versed spruce]

Left the match

[vast yoke]

i doubt vigilant is any good either. inf auto just better on this class for the same job

[versed spruce]

Probably because I wasn't running manstopper scattershot but god forbid a fellow wants the fun blessings instead of cleaveslop

[spiral horizon]

brauto is fun, not as good as the dual autos but still

[vast yoke]

honestly been running man stopper with crit stacking from aura + dependency lol

[manic wolf]

Yeah, but like round by round reload simulator Might as well go back to the times where muskets are a thing 😄

[vast yoke]

so i could run both barrels

[manic wolf]

Double Barrel isnt so bad yer, still not amazing, but ok

[vast yoke]

honestly i found it situationally better, at least with graia brauto. if you pop despo at the end of your mag you get to double your mag and that feels really good when dumping into a quadrillion elites

dual autos are obv better overall but fuck im SO SICK OF THEM!

[manic wolf]

Play Stub Pistols

[versed spruce]

The only thing I use brauto for is on the shit fast-firing mark so it can be a suppression stick on my rampage build xd

[vast yoke]

i do! they're honestly quite good on vulture despo builds

[exotic temple]

I’m kinda curious if vigilant would work on a stim pack vm build. You can use the stim pack like a land mine and use the knock back node on vultures mark so that you can just focus elites and specials.

[vast yoke]

i mean. stub pistols already kinda do that lowk better already which is the issue

[versed spruce]

The knock back node of Vulture's is bait AFAIK

[vast yoke]

knock back node needs bigger radius imo

[livid raven]

The knock back node is a meme

[mighty belfry]

Honestly, supply mine is a meme too

[versed spruce]

Isn't it just the equivalent to a push

[exotic temple]

Well damn

[vast yoke]

if the explosion triggered on drop or 1s after drop it'd be peak

[drifting heron]

Vultures Push is so bad that even Kuli shit talks it in their guide

[mighty belfry]

AoE is pitiful for what it's trying to do lol

[vast yoke]

5 seconds is an ETERNITY

in dt time

[pallid quail]

i tried it n figured it just didnt work

[livid raven]

I pity the poor people who are trying to make vigilant work on scum

[exotic temple]

3m is really pitiful

[manic wolf]

Vulture's Push in shambles trying to exist in a world where Forge's Bellow, Lethal Proximity and Blinders exist

[vast yoke]

im not gonna bother unless someone releases a vid labbing it out proving its goated. it just seems stub pistols are better for the same task at first glance

vigilant vet is fun tho

[dim moth]

THREE meters

[icy scaffold]

Vraks IAG is also a decent option iirc

[dim moth]

T H R E E

[radiant swift]

it's probably pretty good numbers wise

just not particularly worth using with scum

[livid raven]

I'm no vigilant expert, but i think it's carried by vet's talents

[dim moth]

no not really

[vast yoke]

yeah vraks + caxe on rending stim dependency desperado is my "i felt like playing veteran today" build

[dim moth]

I use it on arbites and zealot as a special killer

[exotic temple]

Vigilant has better range but I just wish fs would give us some better optics so you could take advantage of that range

[livid raven]

Dies of cringe

[dim moth]

columnus vigilant is very low investment for its damage output and ammo efficiency

[vast yoke]

it got reworked recentlyish and its quite ok on zealot and arbi yeah

[manic wolf]

It did get some ADM tweaks a while back, but its still probably quite clumsy to play

[azure mist]

Look man they had the art and fumbled it

[vast yoke]

honestly all 3 mks of vigilants are really decent

[dim moth]

it shines most on veteran because shocker they have the best ranged damage in the game

[vast yoke]

my fav is the 2 shot burst

[dim moth]

so they do the best damage with any gun

[azure mist]

CHAIN GLAIVE MIND YOU

YOU HAD ME AT GLAIVE

[manic wolf]

Didnt they fix the ass backwards recoil on the Viggies too?

[vast yoke]

oh wait a minute ik what they based that off of now

[spiral horizon]

I do all my sniping with shredder pistol

life is pain

[vast yoke]

nvm. similar vibe but not the same.

i'd love that weapon though FUCK

[azure mist]

If vet were to ever get a 2H melee

can we please get a Glaive

thank you

[glacial gyro]

if scum gets a polearm before zealot there WILL be rioting

[vast yoke]

glaive with alt mode like crowbar

[spiral horizon]

chainglaive for the chain weap renaissance/meta

[exotic temple]

I kinda like the stubs for sniping but I wish there was more weak spot damaged so you could get one shot kills on gunners and flamers

[azure mist]

Hive Scum deserves the chain glaive solely because its in the art

[drifting heron]

We have mentioned my weapon

[manic wolf]

Vet already peaked for melee with the OG shovel

(And the fucking powersword)

[pallid quail]

as long as we get an ogryn sized eviscerator im into it

[azure mist]

Mediocreish melee, and then the most boring but overpowered melee made

[vast yoke]

i feel like polearm would be multiclass scum/zealot

like crusher is with arbi/zealot

[glacial gyro]

I just want an ogryn melee weapon that isn't goofy looking

besides paul

[azure mist]

They have been pushing for Vet's Melee identity being "Axes" seeing in the code Shovel's are actually considered an axe

[manic wolf]

Shovel has one of the best movesets in the game tho. OG Shovel + TacAxes are just miles ahead of most of the armoury in terms of being well designed and fun to play

[lost token]

Zealot crusher post needed buffs. Hands down one of the more immediately interesting and diverse weapons in the game. That and the inevitability of the relic blade and force greatsword.

Shovel meme propaganda doesn't work on me.

[versed spruce]

Do you know if it's affected by Lethal Proximity?

[azure mist]

Its O'l reliable but a handful of other melee's if we ignore PS can do its job better hence I call it Mediocre/So-so

[versed spruce]

Wouldn't imagine so but maaaaybe

[azure mist]

its not bad

hell its fun

[glacial gyro]

the best movese in the game is chained horizontal lights and chained vertical heavies

[vast yoke]

ever since dueling swords lost their instastagger special OG shovel has risen a lot in my mind

[azure mist]

just some other melees do outclass it

[glacial gyro]

whatever has this moveset is goated

[spiral horizon]

sorry, Ogryn can only be trusted with a giant cinderblock flail

[azure mist]

Unless its the folding shovels

[exotic temple]

I stilll can’t get over the patch fs did nothing but shovels for new weapons

[azure mist]

if its the folding ones we know exactly how shit it is

[lost token]

Any melee weapon that's closer to halberd is automatically better than every wrapon.

[vast yoke]

crusher tbh

feels the closest to halberd vt2

[pallid quail]

pls i need a flail

[lost token]

https://tenor.com/view/m-bison-gif-15680545538882739488

[manic wolf]

Zealot Crusher is good, yeah, but its not the same degree of combo-centric movesets, it has very straightforward attack loops. Relic Blade is a bit more so in terms of combo-centric, but not like TacAxes are

[lost token]

Someone else gets it.

[azure mist]

Anyways if Vet were to get a 2H melee if they're basing it "Vet is the Axe melee class" give em the Breacher Axe the Navy Breachers use LMAO

[dim moth]

just please god more 2 handers in general

[glacial gyro]

used to be able to do that with weapon customization mods, one of the options was to turn the head of the pickaxe into a giant-sized trinket so you could make a flail

[vast yoke]

remember when crusher meta was spamming light 1 block cancel. it was always halberd.

[dim moth]

every class should have at least one

PLEASE

[vast yoke]

(they nerfed this)

[dim moth]

or add just like

a generic glaive or something

that they all get

[exotic temple]

Like of all the weapons in 40k fs could have gone completely adhd on, they picked shovels

[dim moth]

except arbites because they deny themselves bladed weaponry

[manic wolf]

And then gave it a push attack that could one shot Crushers for ages

[vast yoke]

i want this so fucking bad

[lost token]

Straightforward attack loops with a variety of routes within themselves in a way that doesn't cause it to fail. Relic blade has this as well but to a more narrow degree with the added sauce of free blocks/perfect blocks on heat activation.

[vast yoke]

PA was always very good on crusher tbf. its kind of a shame how good it is since the best single target dps combo on it is just PA-L spam XD

but uh

that is just halberd

halberd was just PA-L-L spam

sometimes PA-L-H

[azure mist]

Reminder that they and Veteran can share a Light Stubber seeing both are shown to use them (LMG type Ranged weapon)

[glacial gyro]

The more brain cells it takes to use a weapon the less I want it. Give me liberty, give me death, give me Rashad before my dying breath

[manic wolf]

Yeah, I mean they're both fun, but I struggle to put anything on the same level as Shovel/TacAxe because they're so fluid, you can cycle multiple combos in any given attack loop an change more or less on demand to suit the target you want dead next, most weapons just dont have that sadly :/

[glad latch]

Give Zealot Short Spear & Board, Psyker a Force Glaive, Vet a Power Glaive and Hivescum a Glaive or Basic Spear.

I don't know if Ogryns or Arby use polearms, maybe arby could have a polehammer, that seems like something they'd use since it's blunt.

[exotic temple]

This would be pretty cool too

[dim moth]

scum concept art also has them with one

so if they add heavy stubber it'd be scum, arbites, veteran

[charred bronze]

zealots want power sword and shield. And it would be sick

[vast yoke]

I want this so fucking bad

[manic wolf]

Ogryn having a polearm would be really difficult to balance due to range lol

[azure mist]

ermmmm the heavy stubber is actually an ogryn weapon.... 🤓

[thorny ginkgo]

is this necessary?

[manic wolf]

Not really

[vast yoke]

let me dual wield crowbar + cleaver like sword & mace kruber fucing please

[azure mist]

its alright

[glacial gyro]

Solution: Its all thrusting attacks

[azure mist]

its not the best nor worse

• not like vet

where its a MUST pick

[glad latch]

Yeah, that's true. Although I would like to see Ogryn get more 2handers, even if they're not pole weapons.

[manic wolf]

Suppose so

[azure mist]

Reminder they have a 2H Hammer in the works

[thorny ginkgo]

thanks, i replaced it with +15% damage against elites and monsters

[charred bronze]

Probably helps reduce swing counts on crushers with certain weapons. I haven't tested it though

[manic wolf]

Thats much better value

[glad latch]

They do? Damn, I must of forgot about it.

[thorny ginkgo]

im having a lot of fun with shivs

[vast yoke]

pretty good for: corkscrew shivs, stub pistols
situationally good for: caxe/taxe, boxcutters
im not sure how the mileage varies for the rest of the kit

[azure mist]

Speaking of him im watching him rage in the background LMAO

[thorny ginkgo]

thanks

[charred bronze]

so people don't like Quick & Deadly due to uptime concerns, but it affects everything according to Kudi's doc, including zook rockets. Does that change the calculus on it at all?

[thorny ginkgo]

im going to assume coated weaponary isnt needed on a non-toxin build

[charred bronze]

or whatever his/her name is. The big detailed datamined talent breakdown on steam

[manic wolf]

Its not a bad thing to run if you have the point. Its not really something you factor in uptime with because if you're dodging something, the extra damage is active when you need it, its just not active when you don't need it

[glacial gyro]

Needed? No. But there is one very specific build that is not toxin oriented that takes it anyway, and that is crit shivs with bleed

[glad latch]

Is good on fast high crit weapons.

[thorny ginkgo]

arghh i'll keep it, im running a shiv crit build

[vast yoke]

coated weaponry is mainly for a high crit build that isn't running hyper-critical, while it does add a lot of damage (especially on slaughterer chaxe, chsword, and obviously shivs) its main use is pumping sample collector

[azure mist]

I mean its nice cause uh one moment

[manic wolf]

Ewww, Hypercrit

[azure mist]

sample collector pumping + best DOT in the game

[manic wolf]

Baitiest bait node to ever bait

[lost token]

Shovel has more distinct expression of what's immediately wanted in the moment, which adds to its versatility.

Taxe can do this but not to the same level of distinction of moveset compared to crusher and relics. Granted, it's a whole ass finesse crit fiend light attack machine right out the box but it just doubles down on the finesse crit antics so well that everything else it can do flows well.

At least that's how I see it.

[thorny ginkgo]

thanks

[azure mist]

@thorny ginkgo Green is Tox

Every other DOT plateaus

Tox is only linear

[thorny ginkgo]

damn didnt know this

[charred bronze]

I still like it. H-V drops off plenty on its own without giving crusher value

[azure mist]

• Doesn't have the normal 16 cap limit

it goes up to 30

[lost token]

Will say that I actually like whatever that mark for the taxe is that lets you just shove the axe in something's face.

[drifting heron]

All of them do

[azure mist]

Mark 7?

[drifting heron]

Its the special

[charred bronze]

using combatstats I post WAY higher dps when using it

[lost token]

Yeah fhe special attack

The horizontal flick one.

[charred bronze]

the special is fucking incredible

on the taxe

all this time, I had no idea

[manic wolf]

MK4, yeah, thats the one I prefer. Best heavies for single target and best special

[charred bronze]

you can stop a mutie charge with it. Absurd

[manic wolf]

Will stagger everything thats not a boss

[charred bronze]

same special on the mk7

[vast yoke]

hypercrit feels great on corkscrews with high crit but outside of that i dont notice it often

[manic wolf]

Just bash it in the face a few times

[thorny ginkgo]

i finally got thief's harness

[lost token]

Idk when taxe was nutty but i enjoyed it a lot on my zealot originally when i played a lot with blazing piety crit builds.

[manic wolf]

Nah, is a different move, MKIV has a 3 hit chain special, dont think the 7 or whatever the fuck the other one is do

[charred bronze]

what's the chain on the 4? I'm willing to learn new tricks

but I've been annihilating shit with the 7

[lost token]

Feel like taxe is an example of a weapon that may have always been solid but ignored by the playerbase.

[charred bronze]

It's always been solid, but scum's ridiculous, highly consistent attack speed buffs send it to the moon

[lost token]

I got no proof though and already disregard a lot of popular sentiments shared between platforms

[manic wolf]

Multiple face bashes, can stagger Crushers an shit with it

[charred bronze]

it was popular with some vets and zealots always

[lost token]

Always always?

[manic wolf]

Yer, I've always run it on Zealot

[charred bronze]

I mean, what's the swing pattern? Or is it just heavy spam?

[charred bronze]

at least for months

[lost token]

Maybe i wasn't paying enough attention. The smol one hander was almost always combat blade way back.

[spiral horizon]

it was more slept on back when Rashad combat axe was THE meta pick

but that was over a year ago now

[manic wolf]

Lights are diagonals, heavies is one uppercut, one downstroke, specials are holding the axe horizontally and smashing it forward in jabs

[drifting heron]

Tac axe was too hard to roll for people to try it

[charred bronze]

but when you can choose stuff like the relic blade, evisc, it's a hard sell for most players. The combat knife set would sometimes choose the taxe, but combat blade is kind of the default

[drifting heron]

It took off as soon as they fixed crafting

[lost token]

Oh god wait i forgot the old system for a second lmao.

[vast yoke]

unfortunately rashad is still too stupidly versatile to not be the meta pick </3

on a lot of builds*

[drifting heron]

Taxe is actually a bit better on most classes now

[lost token]

I'm fine with simple weapons existing in meta.

[manic wolf]

Idk, I'd put TacAxe and Rashad at much the same level

Rashad is easier to get the most out of it tho

[charred bronze]

haha I mean, what's the specific swing pattern you use to stagger crushers etc. Sorry, feel like I'm not expressing myself well.

Like, PA - L - H, or H H L, or whatever

[vast yoke]

yeah depends on the build. rashad often still does crusher ttk better

[drifting heron]

It clears faster, is much safer, is more mobile, and has blessed crit synergy

[spiral horizon]

Rashad also melted crushers at the time, more so than tac axe

[vast yoke]

if that matters i take rashad, if not tax

[manic wolf]

Just the three jab chain on special

[charred bronze]

OOOh, okay

[manic wolf]

Same move stops muties

Etc etc

[vast yoke]

if you headshot yea

[spiral horizon]

like Rashad doesn't 2 shot crushers these days but it did back in da day

[charred bronze]

I'll give it a shot. 7 staggers with a single application, I didn't think specials could chain

[manic wolf]

Staggers ragers out of combos

[vast yoke]

god yeah lmao it used to be absurd, its still quite competent tho

also rashad PA is so stupidly good

[manic wolf]

Its just a three hit chain, but you can chain in and out of it with any other move in the kit

[vast yoke]

rashad PA completely taking ragers as a concept out of the game 😭

[charred bronze]

yeah, you can weave the 7's special in easily as well. No real delay that i've noticed, it just kinda comes out

[manic wolf]

Yer, that fluidity of options is why TacAxes are so fun to play

[charred bronze]

I played a couple rashad maps last night and it takes away one of the things I like about scum, which is hyper mobility. Just a lot more slow and deliberate than taxe

[manic wolf]

No making specific cycles to reach the attacks you want, you just kinda have them on demand all the time

[charred bronze]

I honestly think taxe is secretly a just a touch OP for what it is, and it's flown under the radar

[vast yoke]

i played too much relic blade so im used to switching to ranged to dodge/sprint 😭 but yeah it does make scum feel glacial at times

[charred bronze]

because it never really saw wide adoption

[marsh cedar]

guys, what's the dump stat for the HS daggers?

[manic wolf]

Rashad is very strong but yeah, it's not very fun to play and doesnt lean into the classes strengths outside of "ahh big melee damage"

[charred bronze]

it's obviously an excellent weapon, just not to my taste. Maybe I'll run it more consistently as a change of pace in the future, but if I wanna murder shit with slow swings, relic blade zealot is right there

[astral sundial]

What blessing do i want on the dual autos?

Im thinking probably blaze ?

[vast yoke]

i actually just primarily run it on a few desperado builds that could use a "oh shit 12 ragers 2 inches from me" get out of jail card, with a tiny bit of crusher killing potential

[manic wolf]

P'much, personally I'd still rather play stuff like Falchion over Rashad even lol

[charred bronze]

You can safely dump mobility on just about any scum weapon. Exceptions are when defenses are an option. Some people dump damage on needler, I think, but honestly, mobility dump never hurts you that much

[vast yoke]

do the other caxes still suck because they dont get the stat rashad gets that gives it something like 20% attack speed

[vast yoke]

erm 🤓 syringe pistol is damage drump

and collateral is a pretty good dump for a lot of guns

[charred bronze]

speedloader and blaze. Glacial reload without speedloader and the talent really hurts during desperado

[manic wolf]

They don't suck, but Rashad has the easiest to use moveset and generally performs better so thats the one people default to

[charred bronze]

yeah, it's a moveset thing. They all seem to hit hard

[drifting heron]

Needler dump is anything but ammo

[vast yoke]

id argue mobility on needle does something too

especially since its a good stripped down stick

[light sorrel]

is curio tough regen speed good for adrenaline unbound?

[manic wolf]

The curio perk only effects Coherency regen

[vast yoke]

no that only affects toughness regen from coherency (being close to allies)

[light sorrel]

useless then

[manic wolf]

not useless, just kinda bad lol

[vast yoke]

it was funny when Loner was an aura. not good. funny though

[manic wolf]

I miss that 😄

[vast yoke]

honestly Loner was still more useful than what replaced it 😭

[charred bronze]

difference between 60 and 80 is .8 vs .97 sprint speed. I can see it, but the difference is still negligible

[drifting heron]

Killing you on the spot

Loner did absolutely nothing

[manic wolf]

It was a much stronger solo clutch talent than it ever got credit for tbh

[vast yoke]

i'll have you know it was useful exactly one game

[drifting heron]

It minorly reduced your aggro versus dogs

[vast yoke]

like one mission

thats abt it

imho loner should've been an aura that gave passive coherency radius up

that'd be cute

[manic wolf]

Nah, it used to cover your ass vs ranged chip damage if the rest of the team folded an you had to progress on your own

[astral sundial]

Duely noted. And for perks?

[vast yoke]

-15% stamina cost 😭 i wish it was +2 stamina instead

[tranquil berry]

Loner was the best aura, because it gave me coherency when all my random pubs were dead in aurics, so it was up a lot

[manic wolf]

Wasnt particularly useful most of the time, but when it was it was good

[vast yoke]

trvth nuke

[drifting heron]

You know what also did that

Second Wind

[vast yoke]

dont have to fart to get y our point across

haha get it. because ,feinwwmf,gh fmpfhg

[manic wolf]

Yeup, but there was no harm in using both to ensue situations, I get people dont like it because clowns used to abuse it, but it was more useful than a fair number of the auras we've had over time

[drifting heron]

Not Benediction

[charred bronze]

I put flak and unyielding on mine. Maybe others have better options. I don't want to be shooting carapace with them ordinarily

[drifting heron]

Which didn't require absolutely destroying your routing to take

[astral sundial]

Yeah. I use my shivs for that

[spiral horizon]

tru tru

[astral sundial]

okay.

Thanks ^^

[vast yoke]

most ppl run flak unyielding, you could run flak elite, even flak cara isnt a rare sight since it shreds crushers on desperado + rending stim

[manic wolf]

Ehh, yesnt, if you wanted to do anything on Zealot other than that one build for ages you had to destroy your routing anyway, so I wouldnt factor that in much. But yes, Benediction is good

[vast yoke]

i guess flak crit chance if you're running vultures mark works too

[astral sundial]

Thats my desp stim

[charred bronze]

vulture uptime on daps is so good due to fire rate it's not really needed ime

might be worthwhile on IAG

[vast yoke]

tru

[charred bronze]

since it has like, half the fire rate

[vast yoke]

i only run vultures on my stub dualies and shredder build tbh

[charred bronze]

hard to give up maniac though

[vast yoke]

i try to avoid it so my brain doesnt rot

[drifting heron]

I wouldn't shallow dip into the DR and CDR trees like that

[astral sundial]

I'm open for adjustments ^^

[charred bronze]

yeah, what you gain vs the increased cooldown isn't worth it

[manic wolf]

Desperado builds on thier own will cause your brain to rot, you don't need Vultures adding to it

[drifting heron]

Just full send into your attack speed end node of choice

[charred bronze]

shhh let people have fun. We know it's not gonna survive

[vast yoke]

true i only have 1 dual autopistol build and i use it once every 3 days atp

[charred bronze]

not in its current state

[astral sundial]

Not cooldown for Desp?

[manic wolf]

No, no fun allowed unless its melee

[drifting heron]

18.75% cdr is basically nothing

And it only works when desperado isn't active

[astral sundial]

What if I did this?

[manic wolf]

Scum having cooldown lockouts is like the only thing holding that back at all

[drifting heron]

I wouldn't recommend that either

[charred bronze]

I run combo cdr and rending for desperado. Could just as easily run CDR only

[drifting heron]

Because then half your stimm doesn't work when desperado is up

and the conditional CDR nodes at the end are way better than the static one

[vast yoke]

stims are down to preference but i usually prefer just going 1 branch of power into rending% for most of my builds, mainly because the more often i can use my stim the more likely i actually have it when i need it.

if its a vultures/adrenaline build its also just nice to do CDR only stim to get your ability back up

YMMV though since with high enough kill frequency Sample Collector can shit out any 75s stim, prob worth getting rid of that toughness branch though since its a bit ass

[hybrid oyster]

when you pop stim + desperado the cooldown won't help desperado

[astral sundial]

Yeah i run desperado vulture

[manic wolf]

Yep, Power line only best stim, I concurr

[vast yoke]

90% of my builds are either CDR only stims, power rend or power crit. the other 10% are full power rend + full atk speed with movement speed node

[icy scaffold]

CDR sweep

Alongside Chem dependency

[vast yoke]

rend is rlly nice for despo uzis and inf auto

being able to pop a stim and dumpster crushers is fun

[fallen acorn]

do stim effects applied by the supply count towards penances relating towards x while stimmed?

[hasty agate]

Yes

[mighty belfry]

Might be coping but

Executor on shivs

When you get the moveset down

It is not half bad tbh

Actually works surprisingly well with chem build if you can keep the stacks up

[light sorrel]

uncanny or bleed on shivs?

[mighty belfry]

Honestly, if ur running Chem crit, it's preference at that point

Only thing I really recommend is having Riposte

[astral sundial]

Okay yeah holy shit. Desperado with autos is VERY fun

[spark gyro]

I'm cracked out on ADHD meds - someone give me a melee rampage build for Hive Scum

I've also popped a coffee. So please. Everyone. Assist me brothers

[broken bear]

Uncanny + Riposte and add toxin

isnt this someone here

or am i hallucinating

[bronze glade]

idk

barrel them off the map

and see if anyone complains in zealot chat

[wispy belfry]

Anyone know if Quick and Deadly applies to toxin damage?

[light sorrel]

Saltzpyre n328912731

[bronze glade]

It does

The damage on dodge talent right?

[wispy belfry]

yessir, ty

[light phoenix]

True Saltzpyre is a random Heretic Captain

[broken bear]

who even is saltzpyre

some youtuber?

[spiral horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/saltzpyre-saltzpyre-no-warrior-priest-no-saltzpyre-warrior-priest-no-vermintide-gif-24413806

[limber cradle]

Vermintide Character

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/vermintide-zealot-pain-gif-25557240

[limber cradle]

Imperial Witch Hunter obsessed with rats

[spiral horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/live-bile-troll-reaction-bile-troll-vermintide-vermintide-2-versus-versus-gif-14791691335031301398

[limber cradle]

For how much I play Saltz I've never been into warrior priest tbh

[spiral horizon]

I mean he's just tall ironbreaker, in a lot of ways

not the most exciting class

[limber cradle]

Better drip tho

[trim wind]

hey ya'll it's ya boi saltzpyre hit that like and subcribe button

[torn rapids]

Sorry to bother but do crits affect the stacks of chem toxins the needle pistol does?

[light phoenix]

Saltzpyre Book ability is more interactive than Zealot Book ability

...that isn't even a Book!

[abstract lichen]

Yes

Headshots too

[torn rapids]

Alrighty thank u

[abstract lichen]

+2 stack for either (depends)

[broken bear]

ok that was my worst match in awhile

[tender marten]

<@&735928989146939404> can we get this thing pinned pl0x

[abstract lichen]

Didn't know the mark 6 had extra on crits

[azure mist]

Thank you

[drifting heron]

All his weapons are fun though

And he is more mechanically interesting

[limber cradle]

Tbf it's hard to be less mechanically interesting than IB

[drifting heron]

Yeah

I think the best you can do is drakepistols or whatever they're called

[limber cradle]

I agree

[long plaza]

lets go?????

[drifting heron]

Oh yeah that one just happens

[zenith pagoda]

I guess we can say Mk6 is single target and MK2 is horde clear

[rose flax]

Dueling sword

[tranquil berry]

so can someone confirm this for me... needle pistol perks... do the damage ones affect the dots while equipped? cause it doesn't seem to from what little psykanium testing I've done, but I keep hearing that it does....

with how buggy stuff has been with the scum, dunno what to believe

[bronze glade]

it does while the gun is out

[spiral horizon]

holy greathammer is fun but flail and shield gets real boring real fast

oh tome and hammer is cool too yea

[drifting heron]

Flail and shield is in my loadout to bully ragers and do trash horde for THP

I've found it fun to railroad spike SV with tome and hammer

I think I need to go try slayer again

Because I love the other two melee exclusives

[limber cradle]

You ever think it's weird we have two stealth ults in this and neither work like bardins?

[light phoenix]

Vet should give Smoke to Scum to put in their Stimm ability

[drifting heron]

They could try to fix infil that way

[limber cradle]

That's what I'm saying

It'd at least not literally be worse zealot stealth

[spiral horizon]

slayer is fun, only thing you'll find bothersome is you have to jump to headshot chaos warriors lmao

[tranquil berry]

it didn't in the psykanium... I have the straight to hadron mod, swapped the perk on-and-off... no diff

[broken moss]

now thats a boss

[drifting heron]

YEEESSSSSS

[broken moss]

never understood that hat

[limber cradle]

What's not to understand about it

[drifting heron]

You probably don't even wear the dead fish on zealot

[broken moss]

facts

not much a fan of the free clothing options for zealot but the only thing id get off the store is the witch hunter fit

[tranquil berry]

Rock'n'Stone!

[drifting heron]

Killing you

Posting slayer is not a drg reference invitation

[bronze glade]

Yeah you have to leave the psyk entirely for the perk to apply. Don't ask me why.

[broken moss]

seems that defeats the purpose of the mod

[light phoenix]

Kinda miss it, we could use more enemy types and bosses.

Better still, separate unique factions like how in VT2 there's Skaven, Chaos and Beastmen

[broken moss]

yea the different factions that were actually distinct was nice

dt kinda tried to do that but did it poorly

[light phoenix]

Instead we have enemy reskins

[tranquil berry]

yeah, retested and that screwed me over last time, apparently... didn't have to actually leave, just swapped to a different loadout with a different weapon for a few seconds, then swapped back, for the change to "take".... this game sometimes...

[light phoenix]

If reworked, I'd have the Scabs be a more long ranged, shooty faction with access to Ogryns and Dregs be close ranged, assault faction with access to controlled Poxwalkers

[foggy phoenix]

Dreg-only modifier when

Would make the game significantly easier given how the toughest enemies are scab

[bronze glade]

Lol I see. Yeah it's dumb.

[light phoenix]

It's like how you change your items in the ready section just for you to load in with your previous items

[astral sundial]

So turns out

In mortis

tehre is an ability that applies stagger to shots

and it counts for EVERY bullet from the autos

staggering bosses against the wall without them being able to do anything is VERY funny XD

[split fiber]

for needle pistol, would +15% stam cost reduction for sprinting and +2 stam when active be alright if i'm running it with stripped down?

[jaunty spire]

Hey just double checking, Pocket Toxin works with Blinder grenades right?

[mighty belfry]

Ahem. Tox bombers.

[split fiber]

only other thing i can figure to put on would be crit strike chance but it hardly seems necessary

[mighty belfry]

Have fun with twice as many of those fuckers.

[astral sundial]

[mighty belfry]

I think the Stam cost isn't really necessary. I'd personally do reload speed.

[split fiber]

yeah i was thinking that too

thank you

[mighty belfry]

Or if you wanna specialize it for bosses, unyielding does work

[split fiber]

oooooooooo yeahhhhh

[foggy phoenix]

Don't see the problem- You wouldn't be zoned out by bulwarks, scab bombers and crushers

[mighty belfry]

Just have to always have it out to benefit from it, which is why I tend not to do damage perks on needler

[split fiber]

i'll do some testing to see how much more i can get out of it vs bosses

[foggy phoenix]

Without the scab faction, the dreg faction is practically all chaff

[haughty badger]

what does the blue mode on the needler do?

[mighty belfry]

Mk6 causes aoe explosions on enemies that stagger.
Mk2 causes toxin explosions that spread dots to nearby targets

You can gather which one is very often the better choice from that.

[split fiber]

unyielding damage vs bosses with the needle pistol doesn't seem to provide much of a damage boost unfortunately

i mean it does help but not a lot

[mighty belfry]

I'd say just do reload speed for the extra volume of fire

[split fiber]

weakspot hits though go kinda insane

[mighty belfry]

More you can shoot, more dots to stack

They go crazy regardless since all weakspot hits give more stacks

[woeful hill]

check pins

[split fiber]

cool

[woeful hill]

default yellow

speical blue

[haughty badger]

do crits increase the stacks per hit as well?

[woeful hill]

yes

its all in the pins

[haughty badger]

nice

[candid flare]

Do ranged weapons get the crit bonus from float?

[woeful hill]

yes

[candid flare]

I wish I didn't have to pick a melee node to reach it

Wait do ranged weakspot hits proc precision violence?

[woeful hill]

no

its melee

check kuli guide

I might be wrong

[candid flare]

Pinned?

[woeful hill]

yes

[broken moss]

imagine a universe. where a class was so busted. that picking a melee node does nothing for them. to the point people are remorseful for having to path through one to get to their ranged nodes.

https://tenor.com/view/float-the-twilight-zone-stars-sparkle-gif-17642561

[candid flare]

I just did a 17m damnation trench run where I literally just did not stop hipfiring twin stubs

[broken moss]

i cant tell you how much i dont doubt that

[lilac ermine]

@lapis raft Is mod correct

[candid flare]

Was my first ever clear, 2nd time ever doing it

[lilac ermine]

It says I have coherncy 100% and vulture mark 100%

And speedloader 100%

[candid flare]

I just feel baited. As long as float effects ranged I'm gonna use it on my ranged build.

[broken moss]

float?

[limber cradle]

Crit chance on dodge perk

[pallid quail]

https://tenor.com/view/muhammad-ali-ali-boxing-dodging-corner-gif-11583765991956185064

[candid flare]

[exotic temple]

Other fun thing is that your immunity from ranged on desperado and vultures dodge count as dodges so all the on dodge stuff should be easy to keep triggered

[exotic temple]

Working as intended

[lapis raft]

i think some buffs have part of the buff always active so maybe

[near mauve]

scum killing power is so cracked i played a mortis with 3 scums and we were killing things before the game could spawn more

[woeful hill]

mortis

https://tenor.com/view/cat-hammer-cat-being-hit-on-the-head-with-a-hammer-monjjunirawr-silly-cat-cat-hammered-gif-10390299470246788991

[astral sundial]

Mortis is fun

[broken moss]

https://tenor.com/view/delulu-delusion-star-wars-luke-skywalker-force-gif-17088789

[plucky nymph]

i havent loaded into a mortis yet

[near mauve]

brother we had 15 PLAGUE OGRYNS

ON ROUND 3

then nothing for the rest

[woeful hill]

play the real mortis

Fortune of war

VT2

[near mauve]

i was trying out shit builds

[plucky nymph]

i tried solo fow but i suk like 5 yrs ago or whenever it was

[lapis raft]

hmm nah i see vultures mark only when its actually up

[near mauve]

ainz

look at this clown train

[woeful hill]

whuh

[broken moss]

only thing i dont like about that mods uptime tracking is the lack of stack tracking

[woeful hill]

I am watching Fnaf

this better be important

[broken moss]

a lot of skills have good overall uptime but u need to know the stack count averages

[near mauve]

veri important!

[woeful hill]

okay

that is funny

[lapis raft]

yea cant reproduce idk then

[woeful hill]

the clown car of ogryns

[near mauve]

game kept spawning them

until we insert battery

i counted 15

in 1 round

[lapis raft]

also hyperviolence works with ranged weapons? idk why i assumed it doesnt

[woeful hill]

melee_damage_bonus

[lapis raft]

ah so it procs on any damage but it only gives melee damage

odd

so technically you can double barrel and cleave bunch of shit then wep swap quickly and murder something :d

[plucky nymph]

spamming 15s crate for support on h40 blight, needle pistol is some other shit xD

"are you afrai- bleh"

[limber cradle]

Shredder dump mobility?

Ty

Brunt selling me like 3 60 mobi shredders rn

[cobalt goblet]

first ever h40 attempt and it was a w

scum has easily launched itself into being my favorite class

[woeful hill]

https://imgur.com/NwxzGr6

[icy scaffold]

Fatshark should give scum recon las

[near vapor]

honestly yes but aesthetically it dont fit

[fast gust]

Yep no las for scum

[candid flare]

I'm okay with it

[icy scaffold]

Kinda silly since they could easily get their hands on las weapons

[foggy phoenix]

The only normal sounding name is likely an anime reference.
I love the playerbase.

[fast gust]

logistics

[cobalt goblet]

yup sure is lol

[broken moss]

Maybe after they fix the class

in its current state, no

[icy scaffold]

It really wouldn’t change much for the class, it’d be just another funny shooty option.

[broken moss]

last thing it needs is a laser gatling gun

or rather the last thing the rest of the community needs

[main wagon]

Recon las never should’ve gone to zealot

Plus it would give veterans something else to cry about if Scum got it imo

“Our identity is being John Lasgun and now everyone is better with them than us :(((“

[light phoenix]

Heavy Sword vs Caxe on Scum?

[main wagon]

Imo Heavy sword

But I’m not a Rashad enjoyer

[light phoenix]

Recon should stay on Vet and Duelling Sword should stay on Psyker

[icy scaffold]

Heavy sword if your back up is a needle pistol for carapace

[light phoenix]

It is, which is why I'm considering Caxe so my cara melee isn't so abyssmal

[candid flare]

Either or, but I think axe fits the vibe more

[icy scaffold]

Why, just grab pickpocket and then you just never have to worry about carapace. Unless you’d prefer to melee 100% of the time. In which case, yea

Or embrace shivs and it’s dumb shenanigans

[bronze glade]

shivs are the best ranged weapon that HIV gets 🙂‍↕️

[light phoenix]

Pickpocket refills the ammo from your reserves?

[bronze glade]

no

it refills your reserves

[light phoenix]

Oooo that's fun

[bronze glade]

literally infinite ammo

[icy scaffold]

Exactly

[bronze glade]

cuz why not

[icy scaffold]

So your backup pistol will never run dry if you’re just using it for crushers

[light phoenix]

Why am I only just understanding this

[icy scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/dakka-tabletop-dungeoneers-discord-orcs-irks-gif-22814163

[candid flare]

You can use it for everything in a ranged build and never run out

[light phoenix]

Time to pickpocket before it gets nerfed(hopefully not)

[candid flare]

Pure dopamine

[icy scaffold]

Pickpocket really isn’t the broken part

[light phoenix]

More like pfft pfft pfft ............. pop pop pop

[icy scaffold]

Vet and Psyker functionally have infinite ammo already (las and staff)

[tight rock]

pickpocket is hard carrying the class. No way they nerf it.

[icy scaffold]

I don’t see why it’s suddenly a problem on scum

[bronze glade]

HIV is literally worthless without pickpocket!!!

[candid flare]

Lmao I wonder why

[icy scaffold]

Now give me recon las for scum

[tight rock]

ooooh, that would be good

[icy scaffold]

It would be peak

[bronze glade]

(its not)

[candid flare]

2h Maul for Ogyrn b4 recon for scum

[limber cradle]

Hold right click with a recon las all game? Kosher, acceptable.

Hold right click with a vraks all game? Go to hell bastard man

[bronze glade]

there might be a slight difference in dps between the two guns

which leads to one playstyle being very unhealthy for the game

and the other being merely unhealthy for the player

[limber cradle]

Unhealthy playstyles?

In my darktide?

[icy scaffold]

Snipe literally everything with Helbore? Good.
Gun down chaff while being shit into crushers? Pure evil.

[bronze glade]

barrel fodder*

[icy scaffold]

Infinite flamethrower? Good and healthy tho

[bronze glade]

i think anybody who knows shit about the game knows how broken psyker is

i mean desp HIV is literally just more gunker than gunker

which is DEFINITELY what the game needed more of

thank you SO MUCH fatshart

[broken moss]

its strong. i dont think broken. at least its not shooting its flamethrower cross map while immune to all ranged damage

[icy scaffold]

Shooting in a 40k game is fun, more at 11

[bronze glade]

it's immune to all damage yes

not just ranged damage

[broken moss]

how is psyker just immune to all damage?

cuz every psyker i see damn near cant stay off the floor

someone should get the community that memo cuz nobody knows about it. myself included

[limber cradle]

You complain about everyone in every match on the floor bro

[plucky nymph]

psykers are very survivable xd

[bronze glade]

was talking about desp

[broken moss]

oh

wait how are they immune to melee now?

[icy scaffold]

Just gut vultures dodge. Who cares

[broken moss]

oh crits count as dodging?

[icy scaffold]

Yea, on a class that farts extra crit rate

[hybrid oyster]

vulture's side thing? crits immune to damage, and use crit on stimms?

[broken moss]

jesus. i havent stooped to this level of depravity yet

[hybrid oyster]

haha

[icy scaffold]

I just stick with chem dependency so I can desperado more

[broken moss]

even without that it feels cracked.

you can desperado all you want. ill even give you a free bot to take my place so you dont gotta hear the complaining

[bronze glade]

yeah, though not AOEs i guess

like crusher overheads

[grave venture]

https://tenor.com/view/123-gif-9139368787333956800

[broken moss]

obviously they need to fix the class across the board. maybe even a full rework. but it would be nice to be able to feel comfortable building SOME ranged nodes without sacking the whole melee build so i could whip a gun out for more than just the odd sniper or some shit here and there

[grave venture]

Read that like a punishment

[young herald]

to be clear, re: vulture's dodge, it doesn't make you immune to melee, it just means you count as "dodging", which means melee attacks won't track you

so you still gotta move to not take damage

[hasty agate]

So I just discovered that the special melee attack on the bolt pistol can crit and apply chem toxin. Don’t know if I was late to that but oh well.

[broken moss]

i thought "dodging" was a state of immunity

[young herald]

yeah, bunch of ranged weapons have a melee attack for a special, and it's just a standard melee attack, with all that that entails

[young herald]

it is for ranged, technically, because ranged attacks can't hit you while you're dodging

[broken moss]

obviously under ANY other normal circumstance this involves movement but id think that node would circumvent the need to move

[young herald]

but for melee, all it does is break the lock on the melee attack

[icy scaffold]

You probably could with chem dependency rampage build

[young herald]

so the enemy doesn't velcro itself to your ass and lunge 500m halfway through the attack animation

[broken moss]

nah if ur built into proper melee the gun just feels like shit

[limber cradle]

Disagree, you can just use the needler

[broken moss]

its servicable but like, look at arbites. or any other class really. they can have a gun that feels decent while still being heavily specced into melee. doesnt feel that way for me on scum

[potent wasp]

in regards to?

[icy scaffold]

Or bolt pistol

[young herald]

tbh, scum could just use some level of baseline power that's active 24/7 and not tied to cooldowns

[broken moss]

what are you hazy on

dont understand the question

[potent wasp]

true but he is a fiend, but also thats pretty much psyker vet and hivescum

[young herald]

It's not necessary per se, as the class already performs better than everything but psyker in the hands of a good player, but it would make the payoff for mid-tier players more rewarding

[hasty agate]

Doesn’t hive scum have less talents in the talent tree compared every other class?

[broken moss]

yea i think this is part of it. ur always bouncing between ult and stim so theres really no time to bring out the gun

[potent wasp]

I understand your statement. I was just wondering why you had that opinion.

[broken moss]

why i think it needs a rework?

the entire gun tree is filthy

[glacial gyro]

@novel oracle So after some testing I find the thing the mk4 chainaxe is best at doing is dealing overkill damage

[broken moss]

and melee feels great but cant really bring out a gun in any form aside from a needler and feel good about it

[potent wasp]

So you think the skill treat itself needs a rework?

[candid flare]

If desperado, melee kiills give cdr stimm. if rampage ranged kills give cdr stimm.
Not a complex loop

[potent wasp]

I agree with this unfortunately lol running a Malibu the newer is the only ranged weapon other than bazooka

[bronze glade]

nah if you melee spec you can get to pretty respectable gun output in one or two talents

[potent wasp]

meleee****

[broken moss]

i think pickpocket needs gone but in general, moving some things around and maybe tweaking some other stuff to make the builds feel good but still versatile. right now its literally all or nothing, gun or melee. and thats not really in the spirit of the game

[bronze glade]

though i do agree that vet generally does a better job of hybrid

[glacial gyro]

I think pickpocket needs a cooldown at the very least

[bronze glade]

yeah a cd would help

[broken moss]

at the bare minimum

[potent wasp]

Well veteran has specific entire third of the tree dedicated to being being a weapon specialist lol

[broken moss]

but if its only 10 secs that wont help anything

[young herald]

after they did the talent shuffle, the scum skill tree is in a pretty good spot. The one issue with it is too much of the power of the class is tied up in its cooldowns and like 3 very specific talents. Give it a little bit more juice in the tree so it doesn't feel quite as anemic with no buffs up and it immediately gets cooking

[broken moss]

and if its 30 secs or something people will complain.

just axe that shit

its already got access to the aura for extra ammo

more than it needs

[potent wasp]

I’m only here to make the argument that hive scum isn’t all that entirely different than the other classes just a different angle if you ask me, obviously it needs attention and the dave spilled. Definitely do that. They’ve already made it more feasible since dropping.

[young herald]

like, if you distill the hive tree down to the blitz, ability, keystone, and swift endurance + hyper-violence + coated weaponry, the class honestly wouldn't feel substantially different

[icy scaffold]

Keep Pickpocket but axe the free dodges. Much simpler and better

[broken moss]

no other class can take a machine gun for 100% uptime like that

[icy scaffold]

Recon las vet goes brrrrt

[limber cradle]

Vet can

[broken moss]

it invalidates content and makes melee players miserable

[young herald]

desperado just needs to not be total immunity to ranged damage

[potent wasp]

I have psych with the bubble that is up the entire match, which makes them be to range somewhat and then you have the flaming staff, which is auto order to kill everything and you have the veteran that is relying solely on their shot ability that has a 80% of time, and if you knock any of those two classes abilities on a high to cool downboth classes are not which is similar to the hive Scam

[icy scaffold]

Psyker and vet having infinite uptime didn’t kill the game before. Don’t see why scum will

[potent wasp]

true

[broken moss]

pickpocket is the most busted aspect. nonstop ammo. for nothing.

[young herald]

make it high sprint dodge angle instead and desperado is in the right ballpark. Probably still a little too strong, but it's close

[potent wasp]

Well, I don’t think that idea is that hive scum abilities are breaking the game or anything like that we are talking about necessity for rework so I’m simply comparing what we have with this class to what other classes have

[broken moss]

ive never felt oppressed by a vet

[potent wasp]

But I guess there isn’t really any baseline of a class and it’s functions other than kill lol

[bronze glade]

ranged HIV is pretty fucking busted rn

[broken moss]

filthy

[bronze glade]

nearly psyker level

which is not a good sign

[broken moss]

way past psyker

[young herald]

nah

nothing is past psyker

[potent wasp]

definitely not lol up until auric yeah

[broken moss]

again, i dont even feel that hindered by a full on flamer psyker

[fast gust]

Psykers still make melee miserable

Purge the purgatus kissers

[young herald]

if you haven't seen a psyker outperform what scum can do, you just haven't seen a good psyker

[limber cradle]

Yeah

[broken moss]

idk about h40 and never will cuz i dont plan to do that shit

[potent wasp]

The only reason I’ve got arranged can compete with sector on a Intel domination is that it is so damn fast lol but as soon as you are in front of the glass, it’s

[broken moss]

but the main game, its way worse

[potent wasp]

agree with this 100% lol a good psycho can literally solo havoc 25

[young herald]

flamer psyker just walks around deleting entire rooms the second he walks in

[broken moss]

its output is gated by density. it scales infinitely with more content

[young herald]

over and over again for the entire mission

[potent wasp]

oh yeah, I mean first on the topic of like the normal game and we’re most of the player bases. Yeah I think either of the other classes need to be scaled up a little bit or this on skill down but then so does the psycho because then you have the problem of

[young herald]

nah

[broken moss]

the lower the density the less output it generates

[potent wasp]

yup spamming scriers gaze too

infinite

[young herald]

psyker needs to be beaten unconscious with the nerf bat

[broken moss]

again, never felt oppressed

[icy scaffold]

Just add more chaff hordes to lower difficulties

[fast gust]

Nerf purgatus

[drifting heron]

Psyker doesn't even need to enter a room to kill everything inside

[limber cradle]

Nope

[broken moss]

ive seen some strong psykers. but the biggest pain in my ass is the warpfire miasma on my screen

i wish u could turn that shit off when ur not playing the class

[potent wasp]

when they recently did the rework for psy I was blown away when I picked up my ordinary flame staff build popped on gaze… literally went through entire mael missions damn near not dropping the gaze once

[spiral horizon]

ok so I gave in and did the meta despacito build

it's kinda silly

[candid flare]

I've definitely felt unintentionally oppressed by vets and arbs hunting down their highlited targets

[broken moss]

bro said kinda

[young herald]

there's also venting shriek every couple seconds to drop like 10 stacks of fire on everything in sight while continuously casting fire and all that shit

[potent wasp]

it really is lol but try that in like
auric hi intense

[broken moss]

https://tenor.com/view/indeztv-indez-faceroll-indez-faceroll-keyboard-roll-gif-21390062

gun scum gameplay

[drifting heron]

It works on shit outside of sight

[potent wasp]

ya that goo

too

[spiral horizon]

well only kinda because obviously it was all skill ofcofc

[potent wasp]

Yeah, I will say that I’ve come does take like a certain amount of skill in order to be ridiculous and silly lol

[spiral horizon]

holding down left click and sprinting is big brain

[broken moss]

i like ur style.

[glacial gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/machine-face-roll-keyboard-weird-gif-16274057

[broken moss]

[broken moss]

fat brain

[icy scaffold]

If they got rid of scum’s infinite ammo, I’d just play las vet and flame Psyker and still “oppress” the poor melee players.

[spiral horizon]

W I D E brain

[young herald]

I played it for exactly one game, realized about 40s in that it was among the most overpowered bullshit I've ever so much as looked at, and then spent the rest of the mission trying to figure out what kind of brain damage people had to play this and say that scum wasn't stupidly overpowered

[pallid quail]

lore accurate

[potent wasp]

That’s true pretty much every class aribetes has some form of infinite ammo availability

[dull dagger]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a mod for that

[broken moss]

fACTS

[broken moss]

i havent seen one. and trust ive looked lol

though not terribly hard

[icy scaffold]

Gunlugger not having an infinite ammo option for the twin linked stubber is sad. Can’t shoot big gun all game 😔

[young herald]

just wait until you find the psykers that don't even need to be in the same dimension to kill everything in the room

[broken moss]

its the only reason that build is not pissing people off

[drifting heron]

Can psyker be more lore accurate so they get random peril spikes and weaken the veil in the area to the point that a daemon just pops in and kills them

[young herald]

literally the point

[pallid quail]

my bestie is one of those

[fast gust]

Fire dot nerf:

[icy scaffold]

“Oops I accidentally summoned a Bloodthirster guys…”

[limber cradle]

God I wish

[potent wasp]

and honestly sucks that unless you are running the meadow, you can’t run higher difficulty stuff because I love the heavy stubb lol probably like the most fun I’ve had in the game playing all classes

[broken moss]

scums tree is already a recolored copycat of everyone elses so it pains me to suggest yet another stolen ability but i think pickpocket should work like lucky bullet

[fast gust]

Don't worry you'll see less psykers when their blowing up bug gets fixed

[young herald]

I've said for a while that they should nerf psyker by making it so whenever they blow themselves up, they turn into a daemonhost

[broken moss]

blowing up bug?

[dull dagger]

Reaching max peril causing a demon to spawn would be awesome. Both as motivation to play well and trolling opportunities