hivescum-class

[reef spoke]

Interesting

[astral canyon]

i remember someone saying it caps out at 60

dont remember if it was 60 stacks or 60% attack speed but its one of the two

[broken moss]

it's based on your stam level, not max pool

[lost token]

It takes time and repetition mostly. Eventually, it'll click in terms of timing and judgement.

[charred bronze]

Ran this for a few games last night, and it's excellent. I really don't notice the difference in survivability since scum without tox nodes are so fragile in the first place. If anything I was doing better on that front

[reef spoke]

I'll have to mess with it more. Currently it seems worth the talent

[broken moss]

yea definitely get the talent

no reason not to

[reef spoke]

Shotgunner looked at me funny :c

[charred bronze]

I need to get the mod that lets you spawn hostile monsters in the psychanium and practice killing crusher packs honestly

[broken moss]

but I think the most important stat with it on curios is Stam recovery

[reef spoke]

Indeed, I wish it made the Mk1 shivs better. They still feel so slow 😔

[broken moss]

bro what

[reef spoke]

Agreed, I run the "+40% dodge recovery" talent too

[reef spoke]

The heavy attack cleaving shivs

[broken moss]

yea Stam recovery on Dodge is good

[reef spoke]

Not the single target shivs

[lost token]

Not a bad idea. It's a good way to give yourself a bit of training against certain things.

[exotic temple]

I wish mortis trials would do something similar where you could choose specific enemy groups to fight

[reef spoke]

"Oops all plasma gunners"

[broken moss]

I know there's a couple unique, niche situations to use heavies but DPS wise it's the same thing. tested that too

[astral canyon]

those are the mk3

[charred bronze]

What's that mod called anyway?

[broken moss]

lights just better, generally

[exotic temple]

Just a whole trial of fighting bosses

Or crusher packs

[carmine solar]

Killing crusher packs is more about positioning and making sure to not get cornered than it is about fast reactions

[broken moss]

yea "not dying" is the issue

[reef spoke]

Ah rip :c

[reef spoke]

Oof lol thanks for correcting me c:

[hybrid oyster]

just send a rocket, they're all dead lol

[broken moss]

but chem nades

[winter galleon]

crushers by themselves are a nothing burger even if facing 50 of them, its dealing with them among the rest of the chaos

[reef spoke]

I've been using chem nades for crushers

The rocket can get interrupted and has a fire delay

Not liking that :c

[carmine solar]

Also just looking for any crusher in the pack that is lifting his arms above his head cuz u will be turned into the hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby meme in a second

[broken moss]

yea they feel like they too long to pop

[reef spoke]

Indeed, I've missed a few rockets being aim punched because a funny poxwalker got behind me

[broken moss]

also if they got bulwarks in the mix it's less value

[charred bronze]

Worse now that a stray pox walker in the wrong place can stop a dodge dead in your tracks

[charred bronze]

One thing I do like about the rocket is the instant deletion though. Can actually save partyembers that are getting overwhelmed and keep them up

[broken moss]

give me ghosted dodging

🙏

[carmine solar]

True I kinda forgot I still use blackout nades while dodging in a bad situation just in case of something like that

[winter galleon]

best part of rocket is playing mortussy and getting rocket return on special kill perk

other than that prefer chems

[hazy vector]

Why ogryns of 600+ ranks always dogshit?

[carmine solar]

When you play ogryn enough you start to become one

[charred bronze]

I'd be happy with the smaller player hitboxes again tbh

[lilac ermine]

I was firing a rocket at boss and poxburster jumped in front of way

And exploded me

[broken moss]

getting body blocked is so horrible

[amber sundial]

honestly give all classes the ability to bash a singular pox walker in their dodge

[hazy vector]

i am sure every ogryn player is ogryn irl

[amber sundial]

we should 100% be able to body a single diseased corpse

[hazy vector]

becasue i can't see who esle can enjoy such dogshit gameplay

[hybrid oyster]

at least the ogryns should lol

[limber cradle]

It's a forgiving class, same as Arb

[broken moss]

ogryn is fun. if you like blowing everything to hell that's your class

[charred bronze]

I've had good luck with high rank/decorated ogryn players tbh

[hybrid oyster]

Mr E's ogrynheimer is pretty fun and good

[broken moss]

I run my own builds

but I do love the rumbler

[charred bronze]

They're usually the ones that play 'save the little uns' ogryn best

[hybrid oyster]

I do too, but he does have some fun builds

[limber cradle]

My favorite og gun is the ripper tbh

Because that is the ogryn gun

[carmine solar]

I enjoy shield ogryn the most. Really good in havoc too imo especially against twins or other bosses when you can just take aggro and sit in a corner with your shield special

[hazy vector]

i do like it
ogryn's melee, however, is awful

too slow

[lilac ermine]

So many ogryns I see is high lvl

[broken moss]

I just perceive the building process as no less than half the games content. I try to engage with it as much as possible

unless I am trying to like the class and don't give a shit and just want something that performs. like vet

[limber cradle]

Vet feels like they have a "the build" post treework

[broken moss]

yea but it hits like an overweight freight train

[amber sundial]

yea they hella stacked bottom right

[hybrid oyster]

I think the class I like the least just from playing is zealot, not that it's weak or anything, I just find them kind of boring

[hazy vector]

exactly

i hate big people

[charred bronze]

I'm usually pretty good st creating effective builds on my own, but I always dig around because some talents don't perform as advertised on the tin

[radiant swift]

need that

[broken moss]

I lurk here or other places looking for inspiration. like sometimes a node just doesn't look that good to me like it would probably not actually perform but then people rave about it so I'll try it. sometimes it's great. sometimes not so much

but generally I don't carbon copy builds

[charred bronze]

I have a lot of fun playing fury of the faithful relic blade. I miss that charge playing scum

[broken moss]

his combat knife actually feels pretty good

[limber cradle]

Ill carbon copy certain peoples builds just to see what their mentality is sometimes

[broken moss]

fairly quick. for an ogryn weapon

[amber sundial]

people saying that skirmisher is goated but i just cant make use of it tbh

[hybrid oyster]

how are hive scum's dodge nodes? I haven't been using them much

[broken moss]

dogsplosion

[hybrid oyster]

like the +stam and angle and such

[broken moss]

people keep raving about it so I made a build with it to try and like it and it's not going well

[limber cradle]

I fuckin love em, personally

Nimble+Jittery my goats

[dim moth]

I like dogsplosion because I play MAXIMUM DOG arbites

[broken moss]

I use the one that gives Stam Regen on dodge.

[dim moth]

with every dog related talent

[broken moss]

that's the build I made

[hybrid oyster]

for melee builds, I'm assuming?

[limber cradle]

I like dogsplosion cause micromanaging dog feels like the skill cap of arb

[hybrid oyster]

lol I have one of those

[broken moss]

every dog talent. with EO and nuncio

[hybrid oyster]

it's fun af, I just sit back and let the dog do everything

[charred bronze]

I'll also carbon copy builds I don't have a clear understanding of. Psyker is a good example. Less intuitive to me what's good and what's not

[dim moth]

exactly you get it

[broken moss]

the rest of the build is fine and my pooch does good damage I just don't like remote det

[hybrid oyster]

noo need executor for extra doggy power

[broken moss]

executor?

[limber cradle]

I CC'd this from Ainz and it feels like the game is playing itself on psyker

[limber cradle]

EO I imagine

Dog boost

[hybrid oyster]

durr the left one execution's stance or something?

[limber cradle]

Thats EO

[hybrid oyster]

I'm bad with names

[amber sundial]

thats literally what he said he was running

[hybrid oyster]

lol

[broken moss]

castigators

[limber cradle]

Execution Order iirc

[hybrid oyster]

oh yea that one

[amber sundial]

oh yea when did they even give arbys BTL dmg buffs on use and such

i dont remember it existing on launch

[livid raven]

always been there

[amber sundial]

i just cant read then

cool

[broken moss]

yea I'm not stressing off casti or more dog damage really. this build is just giving me a bunch of things I don't normally use so I can try to find a niche for them. I don't like nuncio so I'm forcing myself to run it to see if I can find value for it. I still don't like nuncio

[fallen void]

ok so

[fallen void]

you like mili too! nice

[amber sundial]

ok netzach

[hybrid oyster]

nuncio is more utility, like a defensive thing, in general in this game I feel like the offensive ones have more effect in controlling the field

so it feels kind of lacking

[amber sundial]

nuncio is cool i just wish it moved with you

[hybrid oyster]

yeaaa

even if it's slow, at least if it moved it would be better

or at least being able to reposition it while it's deployed or something

[charred bronze]

My problen with Nuncio is that castigator's exists and it's fun

[broken moss]

yes but it's the same thing as med pack for me. I need it to also give me a lot that I don't otherwise get. I'm not trying to sac my ult to empower teammates that may or may not be worth that investment

like btl gives me no damage but it serves me and my team very well in ways I can quantify

[hybrid oyster]

yeee

[amber sundial]

castigator is cool i just dont like it

[broken moss]

I have trouble "feeling" what nuncio is doing

casti is just the best ult for a ranged focused build

[charred bronze]

Man, it's the most abritrator of arbites talents. Cosplay talent. I love it

[broken moss]

up to 50% extra ranged damage, basically immortal

[charred bronze]

Go castigator, go crack skulls

Or shoot them, whatever

[broken moss]

you can definitely get value out of casti as a melee build but at that point all you're getting is resists

[fallen void]

quck, whats the crowbar dumpstat

[charred bronze]

Mobility

[dense hollow]

defence or mobility

[broken moss]

the crowbar itself

I'm joking. don't lynch me

[fallen void]

do i snag this

[charred bronze]

Poor crowbar. We ask for interesting weapons and get one and most don't like it

[broken moss]

I dumped defense

[amber sundial]

i feel like you'd only use casti on melee builds for the anti slowdown more

[broken moss]

move sets and cleave be like that

[broken moss]

I just don't use it on a melee build

strictly my EO build that generally runs a bolter

[charred bronze]

It's great on both tbh

[broken moss]

it's very, very heavily weighed towards ranged damage use

[main trellis]

Good cause at +75% mobility you get an extra dodge; UI does not show it but you can dodge 1 more time before jumping due to lack of momentum
Its not the only weapon that has such a feature too btw

[broken moss]

you get +50% ranged damage.

[broken moss]

didn't even know that. I just dump defense on anything that has it

[dense hollow]

i dont thing the casti's node specifies just ranged damage

i think it affects melee too

it's just that break the line is better if you're using melee

[main trellis]

Its any dmg

So affects grenades too

[dense hollow]

yeah it's just +50% dmg

so it's everything

[main trellis]

just

[keen timber]

crowbar feels awkward imo

[fallen void]

time to give some heretics the freeman

[dense hollow]

a measely 50% damage..it's not tripling my damage

smh

[keen timber]

the melee getting stuck makes it instantly worthless to me

i hate that on any melee

[main trellis]

It auto staggers tho; very safe

[final temple]

attention, block fodder. If you don’t use the nuncio aquila, you are a great disappointment for the emperor and me. But the emperor is merciful.

[amber sundial]

What I don’t get is why it punishes you for unsticking

[keen timber]

autostaggers the PRIMARY target

if there's 3 crushers, it's gonna stagger one

and get stuck

[keen timber]

wdym

[amber sundial]

The stamina drain dodging out of it

[main trellis]

Observe the enemy & dodge accordingly
Don’t die; don’t be a pepega

[keen timber]

ah yeah

if you dodge out do you not miss a portion of the damage

from the unstick though

[charred bronze]

Yup

[main trellis]

Try using mk7 shovel for vet then talk about being stuck

[keen timber]

at which point

[broken moss]

yea you right. but it's based on elites killed during the effect and it's a lot easier to kill a pile of elites with a bolter

[keen timber]

id rather just use a caxe

[charred bronze]

It's like a mini rev in most respects

[main trellis]

Specials too

[charred bronze]

That you can't choose not to use

[keen timber]

yeah

rev has a lot more control

[true cosmos]

Does the Speedload blessing trigger on melee kills?

[broken moss]

same same. you have limited time. you and reach out and touch shit

[main trellis]

Yup; my Captain Blast build did just that; redeemed the weapon, the ability & the archetype in 1 build

[keen timber]

break the line mogs.

https://tenor.com/view/todd-howard-it-just-works-bethesda-this-all-just-works-gif-20598651

[charred bronze]

Anyone know the name of the mod that allows you to spawn hostile opponents into the psychanium?

[broken moss]

btl is amazing

the "fuck you" button

[hybrid oyster]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/25

[bronze glade]

Creature spawner

[charred bronze]

Thanks!

[zenith pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-bishop-spawner-spawner-minecraft-spawner-bishop-gif-17028091

[final temple]

should be a feature of the psyk by default tbh

[broken moss]

lots of things should

[zenith pagoda]

Add bosses and captains first lol

And havoc difficulties

[broken moss]

like the fuckin ability to permanently lock my stacks at max

speaking of, is there a mod for that?

can't tell you what a righteous pain in the ass it is to test chemical dependency builds

[lapis raft]

just unspec stimm and grab the stimms from table

to stack it fast

[broken moss]

honestly didn't think it worked that way

[amber sundial]

why wouldnt it work with map stims

[broken moss]

helpful in that situation but I still want to be able to just lock all my stacks at max

[hybrid oyster]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/655

this maybe? I'm not if it fits your needs?

[broken moss]

cuz I thought scum just had their stim and that was it

[amber sundial]

if you dont build the stim you dont have a cartel stimm at all

and you can grab map stims

[broken moss]

nah that mod just auto stims which I don't want

[hybrid oyster]

ok

[broken moss]

ah ok.

I've never tried to run without it lol

[livid raven]

also am i wrong or does a female hivescum voice have a stock scream effect when using rampage

[broken moss]

what you mean stock?

[livid raven]

a stock sound effect

[fallen void]

do you have a clip of said sound effect

[broken moss]

mine is pretty.. unique

[livid raven]

no unfortunately

[fallen void]

oh

if you did i'd probably be able to tell

[broken moss]

can sometimes be annoying how loud that bitch is lol

[amber sundial]

the one that sounds like she's getting zapped?

[charred bronze]

Probably not? They have the VA do a variety of screams and grunts for their characters. They're already paying them, why use an off the shelf sound they'd have to pay extra for?

[fallen void]

a lot of the hive scum acting reminds me of payday 2

speciffically

male anarchist

1:1 jimmy from that game

[livid raven]

maybe

[broken moss]

mine usually screams at the top of her lungs and says "we're gonna have some fun" or some shit

[fallen void]

I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW OPEN FIRE

[broken moss]

yea that one's cringe

but I'm not giving up her personality over it. the rest of it is peak

mostly

[fallen void]

"violently australian" is my favorite kind of hive scum

[broken moss]

I like the psychotic sounding voices

[fallen void]

should i continue leveling hive scum or unlock havoc on zealot

[slender plinth]

whatever you'd have more fun doing

[broken moss]

that's like asking what you should have for lunch

[fallen void]

im like

2 levels off 30

on zealot

(why didnt i say 28)

[leaden fable]

What should I have for lunch?

[fallen void]

the nearest psyker

[leaden fable]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1272804331497979935/1450700850132418651/Kill_All_Smykers.gif

[broken moss]

https://tenor.com/view/deez-nuts-got-em-deez-nutz-jerk-gif-4967750

goteem

[broken moss]

what i do to desperado scum

[amber sundial]

assuming the scum didnt already shoot the barrel and everything else

[leaden fable]

Me, playing desperado scum, launching myself to my death because I shot one poxwalker in the tentacle head with a bistol in melee range

[torn ember]

Or because I dodged with only 5 feet clearance between me and the edge of the bridge

[zenith pagoda]

Lmao just hosted a h40, I went book support zealot, I was on frontline and backed up with my teammates, I then held book and was moving with them and then one of them decided to blow the barrel right in front of me

I asked why and he said why did you stand there

[zenith fern]

https://tenor.com/view/wide-cat-wider-gif-3879805434184283975

[zenith pagoda]

This is why I play solo

[leaden fable]

Yikes lol

[broken moss]

the beauty of internet communications. you get to say whatever you want to people cuz theyre not standing right in front of you.

[keen timber]

it's so fucking cooked for me.

[woeful hill]

uhhhh

[dense hollow]

yooo the triple wound hive scum

[woeful hill]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099706898531500243/1242149729132085298/ezgif-5-ae73b49e11.gif?width=687&height=987

[bronze glade]

hidden 4th keystone-- marty HIV

[lilac ermine]

I was playing havoc 40 solo queue and we died

[zenith fern]

those extra wounds wont do much if I shoot the barrel close to him

[tender marten]

dependency should have a downside called tolerance that makes ur stims shittier and shittier with each dose so we can encourage speed running

[limber cradle]

The "make your randoms hate you" passive

[dim moth]

can cartel stimms have downsides that I can put on them to reduce their cooldown

so I can run an all negatives stimm to fuck over my team with using stimm supply

[keen timber]

that's the passive of running 3 wound curios

[echo python]

Optional stimm node that removes the cooldown but gives you corruption with each use (each use scales up the corruption gained)

[rose flax]

Uh that would be overpowered, considering stim supply ability talent that gives ult when stim is available

[echo python]

The Stimm That Just Fucks You Up Bad

[dim moth]

I am going to put -80% toughness replenishment on my stimm

and spamm stimm supply so my team DIES

[frigid thorn]

on the cdr stims, is it always best to take the ones that give cooldown on melee/ranged kills over the flat 25% bonus?

[grand jewel]

depends

[dim moth]

flat 25% is better for toxin/dot focused builds

as they are neither melee nor ranged kills

[bronze glade]

Unless you're just spamming tox blinders I'd expect melee kills to still outpace tox ones in most situations tbh

[random shuttle]

I think

its time to scum

[toxic dagger]

Well? Why did you

[broken moss]

bout even in my experience. slight lean towards more tox

[broken moss]

"I stood there cuz I felt like it and would have been fine if not for my dickbag teammate failing to control his weapon spray"

[clever wren]

The Scoomer

[random shuttle]

Unhinged Detective Arrives at the Scene

[broken moss]

something about that fit screams "psyker"

[pallid quail]

its the collar

[broken moss]

yes

and the tubes on the back

and the mutton chops kinda give me that vibe. idk why

[mighty belfry]

He's got the sample thingy I got

[broken moss]

multi classing would be interesting in this game, come to think of it

[zenith pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/ragebait-rage-bait-lol-lmao-gif-3554026694133497645

[astral canyon]

Bagerait

[random shuttle]

"Scum is a Glass Cannon"
Me who lost 10HP entire Maelstrom: "But without the Glass"

[broken moss]

it's pretty glassy. it just has a lot of tools to deal with incoming damage that others don't. like absurd dodge distance.

[tranquil berry]

So... Not glass then...

Tempered glass

[broken moss]

highly mobile tempered glass

as an arbites main it can be painful going back to arbites with it's 6" dodge distance

[tranquil berry]

Hey man, 6" is all you need!

[odd jetty]

Arbites doesn't even need to dodge. Just hold W and left click. Is it even possible for an Arbite to die?

[broken moss]

like any class, death is a byproduct of mistakes. so yes, it can certainly die.

just takes fewer mistakes on scum

as for dodge distance it's nice to be able to reposition as easily as scum. or dodge multiple mutants in a single Dodge.

[ornate sorrel]

ass cannon

[odd jetty]

After playing the hivescum I went back to the Veteran and it feels like playing on easy mode. Before the Arbite felt like playing an invincible wrecking ball compared to the Vet.

[ornate sorrel]

gl, ass cannon*

[broken moss]

arbites is definitely a very tanky class. it can survive things that would put down a scumbag without even taking health damage. but, it kinda has to. because it damn sure can't outmanoeuvre anything

[lilac ermine]

What is 6 7?

[vast wigeon]

what ever happened to TMI, i like my statistics lookling like my vermintide-NOT a vietnam war memorial

[plucky nymph]

Break the line lets you outmaneuver a lot of stuff xD

[tranquil berry]

But most importantly

[woeful hill]

its easy to out move enemies on arby

[tranquil berry]

It lets you counter-head-butt muties

[woeful hill]

you have the dodge talent

[tranquil berry]

Boop the snoot on the mutie

[long plaza]

[vast wigeon]

i think the most useful aid of BTL is that if you get boxed in by poxers you can make space to side dodge

maybe not as useful as being an ondemand bulwark breaker, but still important for 90% of death conditions

[random shuttle]

SIX SEVEN!?

SIX SEVEN SIX SEVEN

https://tenor.com/view/bosnov-67-bosnov-67-67-meme-gif-16727368109953357722

[tranquil berry]

I'm happy to classify whatever the fuck that is as "stupid zoomer shit" and remain ignorant of it

[limber cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/shaquille-o'neal-shaq-67-6-7-gif-5184942973847308913

[long plaza]

the sacred numbers of slaanesh and nurgle, 6 and 7...

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-thinking-monkey-monkey-meme-monkey-finger-monkey-finger-in-mouth-gif-8112093780925939056

[tranquil berry]

And khorne is 8... So then tzeench's number is probably pi squared divided by Friday

[limber cradle]

9

[tranquil berry]

Too simple

Im guessing the number is closer to "coconut on a stick"+13

[limber cradle]

I mean

It is 9

Alphabet Soup(can't remember his real name) costs 999 points cause of it

Aetaos'rau'keres

[long plaza]

gesundheit

[limber cradle]

Thank you

[long plaza]

[clever wren]

That's exactly what they want you to think

[tranquil berry]

The one thing I know for sure about tzeench is that whatever i know about tzeench is wrong

[limber cradle]

Like Tzeentch

Second favorite chaos god

[ancient basin]

god of hope

[vast wigeon]

you cant always be wrong about tzeentch, thats too predictable for tzeentch, too consistent, it makes too much sense

[tranquil berry]

true, but by being right about tzeench, that thing becomes wrong.

this also makes no sense of course, but it's not supposed to

[vast wigeon]

correct ||or is it||

[broken moss]

lets you face roll into it. sure. i mean if youre using BTL to dodge away from the conflict, idk what to tell you

[calm aurora]

I have sweat toxin

[lilac ermine]

What mod can show the weapons used

[vast wigeon]

at the end of the day if you need room to side dodge a crusher, mauler, burster, or netter, "room to maneuver" is not dodging away from conflict

[calm aurora]

I think it his loadout monitor

[lilac ermine]

Ok ty

[calm aurora]

• ovenproof of course

[lilac ermine]

Is loadout monitor work with normal scoreboard

[calm aurora]

Hmm I think so, but not sure

[lilac ermine]

In ovenproof I dont like the extra damage types

Just melee and ranged

[foggy phoenix]

After experimenting between the dual stubs, the bistol and the revolver, I think I'll stick with the revolver for this class

[calm aurora]

you can remove them I think

[lilac ermine]

I tried to but melee and ranged is stuck with them

[vast wigeon]

yeah something off about the bistol

[calm aurora]

feels anemic

[ornate fiber]

What mods do people use to get the timer on stim ?

[vast wigeon]

that and having the added spread-reduction with the spread reduction blessing feels good asf on both marks of the revolver

[calm aurora]

stimmcountdown

[foggy phoenix]

The dual stubs take too long to kill targets at a distance and require investment to be accurate

[tranquil berry]

spin shot

[vast wigeon]

i was more concerned about the poor carapace performance

[tranquil berry]

extra points for style kills, spin shot while dodging out of cover into a sniper 80m out

[vast wigeon]

meanwhile if you stack enough damage output on the revolver you can hipfire the normal single-loading one and still 1shot maulers

[foggy phoenix]

Like I said- Too long, and awkward since it requires me to claw my hand to click M5 on my mouse and then aim with it for a specific time

[tranquil berry]

yes.... but it's stylish as fuck

which matters

[broken moss]

if you have BTL up you should be charging into said crushers and maulers. bursters get shoved and trappers get sidestep dodged. theres no universe im using btl to dodge a net. closest thing i come to "wasting" btl is if i end up with a firebomb thrown at me and i need to evac the area quickly through fire that otherwise slows you.

[foggy phoenix]

Whereas with the revolver, you switch to it, ADS and hit whatever you're pointing at with zero fuss and accuracy

[supple kraken]

aint a kill if aint a style kill

[vast wigeon]

you could argue its an extra point investment, but i feel like anything within "close" (see:marked by desperado) doesnt need the sp action of the stubpistols

more like anything past 2x that range suddenly needs it, and thats so far enough already

[foggy phoenix]

Well, yeah. Thing is, scum doesn't exactly need more help with close damage

Its greatest weakness are ranged specs at a distance if you're not running desp and/or vulture

[vast wigeon]

well all im saying is if your only gripe is anything at >2X close range takes too long to kill

thats already a strong ask for alot of weapons

it has cleave too, cant ssay the same about the twin ghetto blasters

[foggy phoenix]

Just need a reliable anti ranged elite gun with minimal investment and reliable performance

[vast wigeon]

i dont think thats on the cards for hive scum unless you go desperado/vultures mark

[foggy phoenix]

Because unless you're running a ranged build, you're going to eat shit the moment the gunners larp being machinegunners in the trenches of Verdun

[vast wigeon]

rampage and stimm deploy require smarts

[vast wigeon]

theres plenty of cover, i used to rarely go down in that part

now i just dont because i stopped trying to pick up the dingus who crested the hill and DIDNT take the path behind the cover/obstacles OR the crater

like how do you avoid both i ask myself time and time again and they manage to do it and die in the high elevation of no man's labd

land, or they linger

[foggy phoenix]

I unga therefore I bunga

[vast wigeon]

inb4 boss spawn, yeah just run back into the trench lol

[foggy phoenix]

Also I avoid rampage like the plague

Stimm deploy forever

[supple kraken]

ay lads, ogryn chat wants some drukhari stimm brownies

are yall ready to cook?

[vast wigeon]

the fact that poeple like to fight in no man's land and not in cover is insane

[vast wigeon]

give it 6-7 hours and we ball

[vast wigeon]

rampage is good though

[foggy phoenix]

Sometimes, you don't have a choice once your team pulls aggro on some random patrol off into the distance

[supple kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/pug-swing-ai-dog-beer-gif-15608976063276083301

[vast wigeon]

lol good luck for them

im running back, dying on account of their stupidity is probably like 30% of hive scums go down

[foggy phoenix]

That's a problem for every class.

[sonic pumice]

People rushing like crazy to die stupidly, the OG zealot mantras

[vast wigeon]

so much so that its clear its no class problem. but a player problem

[supple kraken]

"lets fight a horde somewhere god emperor knows where while three of my teammates are bleeding out"

[foggy phoenix]

No no, clearly, we need to give hs access to plasma guns and helbores

[supple kraken]

type shi

[vast wigeon]

ill settle for a recon gun

[supple kraken]

just put twin bolt pistols in the bag

[vast wigeon]

or a bolter

[foggy phoenix]

The recon las would be cracked, too.

[raven matrix]

nope. because then veteran would whinge about having less to make it unique

[vast wigeon]

to be pedantic, isnt SoB the only case of anyone using twin boltpistols

[vast wigeon]

as it should

[foggy phoenix]

This is where I shamelessly advocate for giving them proper hellguns

[trim wind]

hive needs psyker staves

[vast wigeon]

nah we need a new stormtrooper class

[raven matrix]

Hive scum needs ogryn cleaver

I mean it's more of a sword than a damned knife for them

[vast wigeon]

helguns, meltaguns, plasma/inferno/hel pistol (saltzpyre ability)

[foggy phoenix]

You know what would truly break the class

Vet shovel for HS

[supple kraken]

assault marines sometimes, SoB every now and then, some random ass inquisitors, its mostly those who can make good example for rule of the cool

[foggy phoenix]

Please FS I beg

[sonic pumice]

The veterans would DIE if we remove the power sword from their gear, even if it's the most op sh!7 in the game saying "I have no melee options" knowing well that the Password is the reason why

[zenith pagoda]

Scum needs intercontinental ballistic missile

[foggy phoenix]

I'll gladly even use rampage if it means I get access to vet shovels

[supple kraken]

twin heavy stubbers

[sonic pumice]

Replace crowbar with shovel

[foggy phoenix]

Once you go +50% attack speed you never go back

And with crit spam, that's 1 billion toxin stacks

[supple kraken]

ultimate idea, give us rinda's power sword

[vast wigeon]

hadron get to work

[foggy phoenix]

Assuming they survive long enough to die from crits with either hyper v or hyper c

[vast wigeon]

make my helgun, make it green

[lilac ermine]

Scum needs ogryns weapons

[foggy phoenix]

I don't think we even have a proper machinegun that isn't an ogryn lugging around dual stubbers

[supple kraken]

give scum cyber mastiff

[vast wigeon]

clearly FS is content with the braced autoguns and the reconlasguns

[supple kraken]

yep, there aint no lmgs

[sonic pumice]

Is this a chem helgun? Where must I sign to make Hadron start to work?

[ancient basin]

I wonder what my level is on the score board thing, I dont have the mod because I am to lazy to figure out how to install it

[vast wigeon]

in rogue trader one of hte last weapons you find is an admech-modified hotshot lasgun integrating necrontech

[supple kraken]

least techno heretical shi in imperium btw

[vast wigeon]

because its found amongst an inquisitiorial retinue (or whats left of it) and because an inquisitor is working on it, theyve got free reign to "dabble"

[foggy phoenix]

Bleh

[sonic pumice]

If innovation gave me cool shit I would approve ALL tech heresy

[vast wigeon]

more importantly its a hotshotgun, but spicier

which is impressive given the (iirc 40%) armor ignore of the base hotshot gun

[foggy phoenix]

Important question for Rogue Trader (Videogame)

Do their lasguns

Fire beams

Or bolts like with the new 40k games

[sonic pumice]

They might be content, but no one else is

[lost ravine]

beams yes

[foggy phoenix]

Good

[vast wigeon]

yeah pretty consistent with the depiction of the lasgun in the intro of darktide actually

just a crackle accompanied by a long red beam

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/reclaimed-wood-mantle-kennesaw-ga-wood-mantle-marietta-ga-gif-26503546

[foggy phoenix]

The 40k RTS games coming out will fire bolts like off-brand star wars blasters

[vast wigeon]

nopls

[charred bronze]

I recall lasgun fire being described as a 'snap' in various places

[vast wigeon]

hell even OG dawn of war got it right

[foggy phoenix]

DoW4 and Total War 40k

Will have off brand blasters

[vast wigeon]

yeah the sound design sounds on point in darktide... just not the atrocious recoil pattern

[raven matrix]

I mean yeah it was influenced by star wars since it was kinda the primogenitor of scifi and was made a decade before

[foggy phoenix]

My flashlight army will be stuck with garbage

Give me beams or give me death

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/job-application-jump-scare-gif-11326455699963497416

[raven matrix]

but calling it the same thing is like calling 2 different kinda of vegetable the same.

[supple kraken]

https://imgur.com/mYUyHze

[vast wigeon]

yeah its visually distinct from plasgmaguns so they should just keep it that way

[foggy phoenix]

The funny thing is

Plasma will just be the same bolt sfx, but blue

Instead of orange-y

[rough peak]

[ancient basin]

admech class will probably have a radiation damage tree, will be cool

[supple kraken]

dont worry, on gladius, they treat lasguns like they treat melta

[vast wigeon]

meanwhile the boltgun has sounded and looked damn near the same across everything since... rogue trader?

[foggy phoenix]

Melta has got to be the single least consistent weapon across every single 40k out there

[supple kraken]

in wh 40k gladius melta is essentially lasgun with double the pen close up

[dim moth]

"admech class" keep dreaming bub

[vast wigeon]

all they have to do is the dawn of war 2 depiction, but when they do the jurgen depiction they always forget its a melta gun, and not a freaking beanbag gun ||SPACE MARINE 2 WHAT THE FUCK IT DOES NO DAMAGE||

[foggy phoenix]

Does it fire a beam?
Does it fire a big "wave" of heat?
Does it fire a "blast"
WHO KNOWS

[dim moth]

yeah which is why I do not get the obsession with it

[supple kraken]

"fatshark gonna announce admech on the game awards!"

[foggy phoenix]

Meltas are all over the place

[dim moth]

they're everywhere and nobody can decide what the fuck they are

Games Workshop included

[foggy phoenix]

But lasguns have had a consistent identity- Them firing beams over the past 2 decades of games featuring them-

Until now

[rough peak]

[vast wigeon]

always interpreted the meltagun as like a weaponized blowtorch

[dim moth]

Yeah that's kind what I gathered too

Or well assumed

[rough peak]

I'll take 20

[dim moth]

Since there is no description of them anywhere in official 40K media

[supple kraken]

for me melta is just accelerator of nano smurfs who are found in brains of roblox players of grow a garden

[charred bronze]

Calling star wars the primogenitur of sci fi is a big stretch (lucas was heavily influenced by buck rogers, for example), but it was hugely influential in sci fi visual and sound design. Nobody blinks at 'blaster bolts' or laser swords these days.

Still, lasers, phasers, ray guns, etc. have been fixtures in science fiction weaponry for a long, long time. The first appearance of a heat ray was in the late 1800s in war of the worlds, though they became fixtures of the genre in various ways in the 40s.

[vast wigeon]

actually no, a weaponized blowtorch combined with picrel

[foggy phoenix]

I'd argue the Fire Warrior game is the most accurate bolt-gun.
They're supposed to be gyrojet projectiles

[vast wigeon]

where it just ejaculates "blowtorch material" at high speed and force to melt and slag anything

and if anyone here has ever been hit by the purple super soaker

holy shsit that bitch HURTS

[foggy phoenix]

Space Marine made bolters into generic-ass videogame guns that just happen to explode when they hit something

[rough peak]

I was already sold, you don't need to convince me more

[vast wigeon]

thanks sabre

[supple kraken]

ah yes, the fire warrior, the most cursed, yet somehow surprisingly good in terms of some lore tibids

[dim moth]

bolter...

[limber cradle]

Darktide has genuinely the best bolter I've seen in a 40k game

[foggy phoenix]

DoW made bolters fire literal chunks of metal at people

[limber cradle]

The feeling on that thing is immaculate

[thick adder]

I finally played Hive Scum long enough to say...

Fun class, 9/10

[dim moth]

and it's also really good which is great!

[vast wigeon]

my favorite lore: "best gun is a... stub machinegun"

[dim moth]

God if the bolter was bad that would be so sad

[foggy phoenix]

Darktide bolters just feel like a generic videogame "heavy gun" with none of the gyrojet shenanigans

[limber cradle]

Finally, a Grey name with some taste

[charred bronze]

I don't think the GW lore writers knew what they were writing about tbh. They were like 'it goes BANG, AND fires explosive rocket bullets that make things blow up in chunks!'

[supple kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/steven-ogg-trevor-basement-cellar-light-gif-4552491482087067591

lets just agree we need to slime out GW leadership

[charred bronze]

it was pretty meh for a long time tbh

[foggy phoenix]

40k was written almost half a century ago where sci fi was had minimal basis in reality, and "cool ideas" back up with zero knowledge reign supreme

[limber cradle]

Whats the term for 40k

A space opera?

Like star wars

Its not hardline sci fi, it's vibes

[charred bronze]

that's still often the case. Anime is full of bullshit nonsensical weapons of all kinds

[supple kraken]

power fantasy soap opera trying to act like its a satire of sci fi genres

[echo python]

Depends a bit on what era you're looking at, but I'd probably say 40k is science fantasy

[limber cradle]

That's a good one too

Science Fantasy

[foggy phoenix]

In spite of being space-faring race, you have an empire that literally uses swarm tactics on the ground, ww1 artillery batteries, and the only thing flying in the skies are valkyries- Maybe

If the writers even remember Valkyries even exist

[charred bronze]

yeah, cuz it's familiar and makes sense for table top

[supple kraken]

they barely do

[charred bronze]

lucas was inspired by WWII dog fighting movies for star wars space battles too

utterly nonsensical in the vastness of space, but damn does it look cool

[foggy phoenix]

Our modern conception for how wars are fought is aerial superiority gives you free reign to do whatever the hell you want to do to the enemy with impunity from the sky

[charred bronze]

yeah, space opera, or sci fantasy

[foggy phoenix]

But 40k was written waaaaay before that

[vast wigeon]

On some level I think they wanted a gun that would work in space I think, without realizing in theory guns should work just fine in space

I can't conceive of another reason to do that

[foggy phoenix]

Battlefleets exist solely as stationary bases and not orbital bombardment platforms

[charred bronze]

40k was written in the early 80s. They knew that what they were writing did not accurately reflect modern tactical doctrines

inasmuch as they gave a shit

[foggy phoenix]

Reconnaisance is always done in force, because cameras are apparently rare

[vast wigeon]

In 40k tech is definitely more expensive than human life

[foggy phoenix]

"What's in that hole, sarge?"
"We're about to find out"

[charred bronze]

cuz it's cool and sounds bad ass. They're not just guns, they're heavy space rocket guns that a normal man can't wield! METAL!

[foggy phoenix]

Like shit, my absolute worst gripe with the setting is

In spite of how easily lives are spent

[vast wigeon]

Meanwhile weak AF and pointless in space marine 2

[foggy phoenix]

No matter how shit the living conditions are

Everyone still breeds like rabbits

[bronze glade]

life uhhh finds a way

[drifting heron]

Brainwashing and propaganda

[charred bronze]

they're a base weapon in table top too. Cuz all the other weapons are EVEN MORE BADASS!!!! METAL!!!!

[foggy phoenix]

You'd think living in a factory for 20 hours a day, eating corpse starch and doing nothing but praying during your free time means you don't have the literal time to WOOHOO

[charred bronze]

people had lots of babies in russia under various regimes. Makes sense to me

[foggy phoenix]

Let alone raise a family

[drifting heron]

(Normal people wield them all the time)

[vast wigeon]

Fast finish is clearly a skill in the grim darkness

[charred bronze]

shit, it's one of the most believable parts of the setting. People don't stop fucking just because conditions are horrific

at least, they didn't historically

that's less true in the modern age, but that's quite recent

[foggy phoenix]

But enough to sustain regular population tithes?

[charred bronze]

and very much a rich, capitalist nation thing

[vast wigeon]

"yes"

[charred bronze]

Does the empire even have birth control?

[foggy phoenix]

In the same worlds with apparently too little resources

Absolute dogshit working conditions

[vast wigeon]

I think the comically vast scale of hive cities enables this

[charred bronze]

that's why dead bodies get recycled into corpse starch!

[rough peak]

You'd think that, but, people are gonna find a way

[charred bronze]

shit, sex and having whatever passes for a family is probably one of the few 'joys' the setting has to offer ordinary people

[foggy phoenix]

No no. The food has to come somewhere and as funni as corpse starch is, a slaughtered cow can only feed the same family for how many days. Translate that to a death human who, before that point, was also subsisting on the same stuff

[charred bronze]

There are literally agriworlds in the setting

just farmers making food to feed the rest of the imperium

[drifting heron]

Yeah corpse starch is not a primary food source

Its emergency rations more or less

[charred bronze]

I was kidding about the corpse starch tbh

[vast wigeon]

Usually people are uniquely adapted to their worlds iirc as well

[foggy phoenix]

I'd argue raising a kid is more "ah, a new 'orphan' for the schola progenum I see"

[vast wigeon]

Like how catachans are all 7ft tall gigachads

[foggy phoenix]

Only hive nobles seem to be able to afford to have a family

[charred bronze]

Hive Nobles can afford to not have a family

[foggy phoenix]

Everyone else will probably just have their kids whisked away somewhere. Either as literal child laborers like some of the backstories, or "adopted" by the schola

[charred bronze]

they exist in extravagant luxury

[rough peak]

To be fair: you gotta be a gigachad to live on catachan

[charred bronze]

and have greatly lengthened life spans I think?

[foggy phoenix]

That's the thing with lifespans, too.

[vast wigeon]

Yeah even feudal worlds have unusual ways to do this if the lex dlc for RT is anything to go by

[charred bronze]

40k is basically an indictment of the early 20th century leading into WWI

[lilac ermine]

Poorer countries have more birthrates then wealthier countries

[charred bronze]

all the social structures and attitudes are similar

cross the british empire with imperial russia

untouchable wealthy aristocracy and business giants, virtually no middle class, as such. Bathed in propaganda

[foggy phoenix]

In that regard, how would hive scum even make a living

[vast wigeon]

This isn't unique to the early 1900s

[charred bronze]

coal choked, tenement-ridden industrial revolution cities in the UK. Vast population of peasants in imperial russia

[charred bronze]

ofc not, but I think that was the direct inspiration

[foggy phoenix]

Somehow, in spite of everything being a shithole, people could afford to raise, arm and train literal mercenaries for hire

Enough to control factories

[vast wigeon]

Children are impressionable

[foggy phoenix]

And influential enough to be "permitted" to exist

[charred bronze]

with sufficient information control, and a universal religious ferver, populations are surprisingly easy to control.

And realistically, the imperium is absolutely riddled with rebellion

but in this setting, the people that reject the system get suckered in by chaos--which promises them all those egalitarian freedoms and equality, and then fucks them. Might even be a bit of cold war anti-communism in that part of the lore

[drifting heron]

Its originally based on Thatcher era politics iirc

[charred bronze]

i do recall something about them hating thatcher, along with anyone else with two braincells to rub together in that era

[foggy phoenix]

I'd argue that the common populace is too tired to actually be involved with chaos unless a noble is involved and starts doing more depraved shit than usual

[charred bronze]

there are little cults popping up all the time

[drifting heron]

Chaos cults pop up out of nowhere all the time

[charred bronze]

that's what inquisitorial acolytes are for

shit, that's the entire premise of the Dark Heresy ttrpg

[drifting heron]

The conditions of the imperium are perhaps the greatest motivator

[vast wigeon]

The common populace doesn't even know chaos is a thing

[foggy phoenix]

Can't imagine cults getting large enough to arm its members without support from the top

[charred bronze]

they don't usually think they're worshipping chaos entities

[foggy phoenix]

That's also the thing.

[brittle sierra]

Chuds thinking they will be an ultramarine:

[vast wigeon]

To quote the veteran "next you'll be telling me the grey knights are real"

[drifting heron]

Most people work in factories or around tools that can absolutely kill people
And they can always steal weapons

[charred bronze]

yeah, if hive gangers can get their hands on advanced weaponry, the cults can too

[drifting heron]

The scale of production is such that entire days of production are lost to bueracracy

Nobody will miss a few lasguns

[foggy phoenix]

Only thing the ultrasmurfs got is that their imperial worlds are (mostly) stable and better off compared to... Literally everyone else's.

Probably the best hive worlds to live in

[drifting heron]

They don't need to

[charred bronze]

that's the thing. The great irony of the imperium is that everything that they do to prevent chaos from gaining influence, feeds all the misery that directly powers those entities in the warp

[vast wigeon]

Cut the salamanders some slack, they settled a volcano

[foggy phoenix]

First off, literally why

[charred bronze]

cuz it's metal

[vast wigeon]

Because uuuuuuuuh

[foggy phoenix]

I like the Salamanders but-

[charred bronze]

they wouldn't have used that phrase, but most design decisions in 40k boil down to 'is it metal enough?'

[foggy phoenix]

I do not want to do anything with whatever rituals they do

[clever wren]

Veteran Hellgun should work like Engineer Bardin's minigun

[foggy phoenix]

Like, shit, a funeral where you lower the body of the fallen down into literal molten lava with chains, using your bare hands?

Literally why

[drifting heron]

Cause its cool

Thats it

There is no further reason

[foggy phoenix]

So much ritual scarification going around on nearly every chapter that if it's not self-mutilation, it's the creation of a weird device thats entire purpose is to inflict pain upon you without all the scars

[tranquil berry]

fun fact: actual humans did a helluva lot of that throughout history

why? cause humans....

[vast wigeon]

I daresay it's quite hot

[foggy phoenix]

The magic pain glove that is less a glove and more a suit, which has an operator

It's unironically like doing S&M play

The Imperial Fists be kinky as shit

[foggy phoenix]

i have zero idea of what the vermintide weapons are, enlighten me.

[radiant swift]

the imperial fists also had a shit eating ritual once upon a time if I remember correctly

not canon anymore though😔

[drifting heron]

That was written by an actual fetish writer

[radiant swift]

true

[foggy phoenix]

The ultrasmurfs are probably the only chapter they could find that is actually PG13 enough to become poster boy for the imperium

[vast wigeon]

The gun in question is tied to the class ability

[foggy phoenix]

Every other space marine chapter has some weird dogma that just makes them strange as shit

The blood ravens being literal magpies that steal everyone's relics though- Absolute classic

And makes sense in-game

[vast wigeon]

That said since helgun packs and power weapons for stormtroopers are powered directly from a backpack power source I can see the stormtrooper active ability granting infinite/free ammo or just powering the power sword for the duration

[clever wren]

Basically the minigun is his class ability, a separate ranged weapon on top of his normal one that regenerates ammo

[dim moth]

you are saying your prayers to the Big E as you take the big D

[vast wigeon]

Just make the storm trooper all powered melee weapons

[foggy phoenix]

Sure. Just have that replace the infiltrate ability for vet, and no one will miss it.

[vast wigeon]

What powered weapons do humans use. Fist, claw, sword, falchion?

[icy scaffold]

I’m glad the Space Wolves are just space Vikings who turn into furries if they lose control too much

[dim moth]

that is one thing vermintide has that darktide still doesn't

abilities that are like actual attacks

or weapons

all of our abilities are like charges, shouts, or large passive buffs

[radiant swift]

we have blitzes for that

[dim moth]

I guess

[drifting heron]

They added blitzes to do that

[vast wigeon]

Right, watch them implement the inferno/plasma/helpistol ala BH

[foggy phoenix]

I'm sure people would lose their minds over the things named "wolf"

Worst part is that the wolf naming scheme is canon

Everything is named after wolf

[icy scaffold]

Always annoys me when you see space wolf armor in a game and it simply has “space wolves” written on it

[vast wigeon]

The corollary is the ultramarines are so generic you need to see ultramarines to know it's ultramarine wargear

[plucky nymph]

BTL knocking everything down is outmaneuvering you don’t need to use it to 180 go the other way (rarely useful except maybe a burster being thrown at you)

[toxic dagger]

40k is made up almost entirely out of puns

[rare stirrup]

Any implement with a distruptor field

[clever wren]

tfw Wolfcaptain Wolfenstein and his Wolfsquad of Wolfbrothers armed with Wolfbolters and Wolfswords land in their Wolfplane (which is shaped like a giant wolf) and walk up to you with armor that says "Space Wolves" on it

[vast wigeon]

Fenris hjoda!

[toxic dagger]

"why are they named Ultramarines? Is it because they're blue?"

"No they're from Ultramar. The marines from Ultramar. The Ultramarines. Get it"

"Oh my god"

[icy scaffold]

Yea, but at least the Ultramarines call themselves that. Space wolves don’t even call themselves space wolves

[vast wigeon]

Aka poggers in wolf noises

[clever wren]

But they are ultramarine ultra Marines, in addition to being from Ultramar

[icy scaffold]

The storm wolf being a wolf head is so dumb and funny ngl

[brittle sierra]

Ultra deez

[clever wren]

And let's not forget the iron hands of the iron hands of the iron hands of the iron hands of the

[foggy phoenix]

Reminds me of when I learned that Space Marines in rogue trader were literally just the po po

[toxic dagger]

"okay and what's their thing?"

"Oh you know they're Roman themed. Cato, Scipio, Titus, cool horsehair crests the works."

"And their leader?"

"Nah let's give their primarch the most out of pocket and unpronounceable French name. As a joke."

Whole thing makes no sense, top to bottom

[foggy phoenix]

It literally had a drawing of space marines searching what appears to be a hive ganger with his hands on the wall so they could conduct a search

[limber cradle]

That's rogue trader era

I have that picture somewhere

[icy scaffold]

There’s also an inquisitor named after Obiwan Kenobi

[weary pebble]

Good ol' Rowboat Girlyman

[foggy phoenix]

Even funnier, the ganger is taller than the space marines

[limber cradle]

RT era marines were like

Dudes in armor lmfao

[foggy phoenix]

Space cops

Now that I'm looking at it again

Looney-tunes ass hands

[limber cradle]

I can genuinely only read the graffiti as "marines lol"

[vast wigeon]

Iirc obiwan sherlock

[clever wren]

Old 40k is a vibe

[limber cradle]

Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau

[broken moss]

outmaneuvering is avoiding. "evading"

i.e. dodging

[rare stirrup]

Remember what they took from you.....😔

[plucky nymph]

https://youtu.be/s8ryY13BfU4?si=NQcAEh3VOdOuFSxp

for me I think you can outmaneuver without necessarily just dodging, I’m getting out of a bad spot just cuz of BTL xD

[tranquil berry]

If someone bashes your face in and knocks you on your ass, then walks past your crumpled ass, you can't really argue semantics

Hey, technically i wasn't outmaneuvered... No... But you're on the ground bleeding so it mostly doesn't matter

[mighty belfry]

That's technically evading. Just not in a traditional sense lol

[broken moss]

this was "escaping a poor positioning situation" and I'd still call that an unfortunate use of the ability but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. but that shouldn't be the goal of using btl. if you have proper synergy with your build, you can spend forceful stacks to get a damage boost after using it to help you kill mobs of crushers or whatever else. should always be trying to hold it for offensive situations when possible.

[broken moss]

yea this is called "brute forcing your way through a problem"

[light sorrel]

chem+bleed best boss killer for scum?

[vast wigeon]

In darktide defense and offense are rarely mutually exclusive

[vast wigeon]

Imo rampage shivs is best for captains (aka man sized dudes with force shields)

And needle gun is best at anything else

[tranquil berry]

Technically, or rocket spam, but you don't really need the bleed if you keep the fucker at 30 stacks of chem

[plucky nymph]

BTL you can use off cd

Why save a null cooldown ability, esp with left keystone

[mighty belfry]

Yeah. That is pretty much what the class is good at

[broken moss]

I'd argue they're often mutually exclusive. like there's not much use for scriers gaze defensively and not much use for shield bubble offensively. most abilities are pretty locked in as one or the other, despite having some additional benefits that support damage/defense respectively

[broken moss]

agreed

[plucky nymph]

Scriers 20% mvspeed is very defensive though

[broken moss]

this debate (if you can even call it that) started over my acknowledgement that arbites doesn't have the Dodge game that hive scum does to outmaneuver enemies, but instead relies on tank to stand his ground

[vast wigeon]

except for bubble+smite, theresno practical case in darktide where defense and offense are mutually exclusive

[broken moss]

if you're using scriers to run away you're doing it wrong

[dim moth]

chorus

[vast wigeon]

nah you can push the issue, you can advance, youre not stuck in place

[broken moss]

having perks associated with defense does not make an offensive ability a viable defense option in most cases.

[dim moth]

oh you mean like that not

[vast wigeon]

more importantly thats 4 people playing stupidly now since yellow TGH

[broken moss]

chorus is 100% defensive

[vast wigeon]

im more confused at this argument of things being defensive

[broken moss]

unless you can somehow push a boss off a cliff

which is niche

[vast wigeon]

bruv if theres a hallway that needs pushing, being invincible and moving through it is by definition not defensive

its advancing

[dim moth]

nah thye mean offensive in the sense that the ability can help you make a push

[plucky nymph]

Thematically yes but arb does have a very good dodge talent and a lot of move speed easy access nodes too

[dim moth]

chorus being one of the absolute weakest abilities for it does not mean that it cannot do it

[broken moss]

if you're not doing damage, it's defensive

[dim moth]

actually

Nuncio Aquila does not allow you to make aggressive plays really

[vast wigeon]

thats such a wrong definition

[dim moth]

Since it forces you to stay in its AoE to benefit

[plucky nymph]

https://youtu.be/T5NAn5-c-G8?si=871u4a_CwtqXI2YW

this is move speed scriers being defensive in terms of “running away”, can skip to 3-4 min in if you want

[broken moss]

by your logic I'm sure you believe that

[dim moth]

nah I agree with them

[vast wigeon]

at the end of the day there are objectives that need doing

[dim moth]

abilities don't need to directly assist your damage to help with aggression

[vast wigeon]

and if you can use those to complete them, especially the mobile ones

[broken moss]

defensive options protect you. offensive options either do damage or put you into a position to do damage

[vast wigeon]

they simply arent

[dim moth]

like Voice of Command, Psyker Dome, Ogryn go again taunt

[vast wigeon]

also i think youre underestimating the confidence boost that is 4 people with gold TGH

[dim moth]

Ogryn's cooldown reduction taunt is insanely good for facilitating aggression

[foggy phoenix]

I just see it as a free revive speed and some toughness regen

[rare stirrup]

This guy isn't big on definitions

[vast wigeon]

yeah no kidding

[dim moth]

Even though it doesn't really stagger, or help with damage in any significant way

[vast wigeon]

"its my way because i convinced myself it is!"

[broken moss]

this is you

[foggy phoenix]

Nuncio feels like a worse bubble shield

[vast wigeon]

which i mean great, but not interesting for conversation other than

"everyones playing everything wrong because i said so"

[broken moss]

you think proper use case of btl is running away

[vast wigeon]

said who?

[livid raven]

me

[broken moss]

says you

[vast wigeon]

making space to dodge sideways isnt running away

[dim moth]

I've used BTL to run away sometimes :/

[hybrid oyster]

if they built in the 2 skill nodes into Nuncio, I might consider taking it lol

[broken moss]

we all have. but that's not it's intended function

[dim moth]

Its intended function is to move you a short distance and stagger anything in your way

Regardless of what direction you're moving

The movement+stagger is the point

[vast wigeon]

i think nuncio is good, but its almost exclusively tied to EO for me since awful downtime, and even then its for picking people up

[plucky nymph]

Scriers move speed can absolutely be used to run away (and to) things xD I absolutely use as defensive and offensive

[broken moss]

yes and if you turn tail and dash out of combat and hit nothing that's not a good use of the ability. whether it was helpful in that moment or not

[foggy phoenix]

Still more serviceable than vet infiltrate

[vast wigeon]

right its like people forget to run up to and smack things, you first have to run into melee range

[hybrid oyster]

yea with a 3 fully stacked revive speed curios it does it real fast

[dim moth]

If it was helpful in the moment and means you are not dead that is a good use of the ability

[broken moss]

you used it as a crutch to get yourself out of a shitty situation you likely put yourself in

[vast wigeon]

bruh i think if youre going nuncio, 3X revive speed is a bit excessive

[dim moth]

Do you think it's a bad use of Zealot's Fury of The Faithful to use it to iframe a poxburster when you're stuck in a corner?

[hybrid oyster]

yea I barely play either zealot or vet invis, I just find it okay

[broken moss]

yes. a necessary one but it still feels bad.

[vast wigeon]

vet infiltrate is good if youre quickplaying

[hybrid oyster]

I tend to get really bad RNG with teammates so I find revive speed very useful haha

[vast wigeon]

people just DO NOT want to cover you OR do the interrogator minigame

[broken moss]

if you never got yourself cornered you wouldn't have had to waste the ability on an escape

[vast wigeon]

the corollary is its not my problem to pick you up, ill get you when i can (nets are non negotiable ill certainly try)

[foggy phoenix]

I'd rather not make unreliable pubs even more unreliable by sending more enemies their way.

[vast wigeon]

at least this is super relevant with hive scum

[vast wigeon]

ive done enough capsule carrying to tell you theyre going down anyways, the least i can do is push the objective

[foggy phoenix]

I'd rather, you know, kill everyone close by so that people can actually do the objective

[vast wigeon]

some people just dont do the objective

[reef spoke]

Na then they'll leave and you get bots which are a strict upgrade

[broken moss]

i rather put the points into my own performance, let them die, clutch it out and go revive them in peace later

[hybrid oyster]

pubs are fun, you never know what kind of teammates you get, sometimes it's frustrating, but sometimes you find a really good one and it's fun and easy

[vast wigeon]

literally not poissible in pubs some times on HISTG

[reef spoke]

The fucking TREE

[hybrid oyster]

I get lazy, whenever I'm the last one alive I kind of just go "eh, do I really want to tryhard and save this game" lol

[vast wigeon]

a down every 10 seconds for sure

[foggy phoenix]

If only the bots didn't willingly walk into the line of fire of an execution line's worth of gunner packs and get deleted instantly

[broken moss]

that is the other option

[dim moth]

how do people drop like flies on the tree every time

[broken moss]

if my squad team wipes in the first fight I just leave

[vast wigeon]

lot of shooters spawn + poor target priority

[foggy phoenix]

You mean the phage tree?

[reef spoke]

Somehow still comparable to randoms

[broken moss]

if we've been going a while and shit just happened I'll try to clutch it

[vast wigeon]

thats kinda cringe

clutching is fun

[reef spoke]

Yup lol

[dim moth]

It doesn't spawn "lots of shooters" it spawns like 4

[foggy phoenix]

Probably sat on the yellow piss too long

[vast wigeon]

ok but the bombers can get out of hand

[foggy phoenix]

"why am I getting corruption damage"

[vast wigeon]

dont get me started on fog or darkness modifiers

[reef spoke]

It depends imo, sometimes they don't deserve to be carried

[vast wigeon]

yeah but ill look like a god

if even for a moment

[reef spoke]

I sometimes leave while alive because my team should NOT be at this difficulty

[vast wigeon]

if we stall on the final objective im leaving obv

[broken moss]

yea I'm not trying to clutch 10x a match only to result in failure and a waste of my time because my teammates are so inept they are just a backpack I have to carry around for 45 minutes

pull your weight.

[vast wigeon]

i mean unless an event is on i dont really care

i just play to play and maybe get my melkbux

[hybrid oyster]

I've got like 100k melkbux, what should I do with em?

[broken moss]

I'm currently trying to farm currency so completion is pretty important

[vast wigeon]

new character comes out and i burn like 20K easy trying to get 410+ curios

[broken moss]

when I'm sitting on builds and dgaf about the currency it's whatever. but if they all wipe first fight man.. that's not a good omen

had that happen 6 times in a row what, yesterday? day before? icr

[hybrid oyster]

from the random? I see thanks, yea it's hard to find 17 toughness a lot of times

[vast wigeon]

right, no point in finding it natty

[foggy phoenix]

Woe. Clandestium Gloriana team wipe before 1st medicae upon ye.

[vast wigeon]

on the grounds that throneside missions are relatively uncomplicated, i dont mind it

[broken moss]

bro I love Gloriana as a map but I can't stand it at the same time cuz I know that first section is going to dictate everything

[foggy phoenix]

It's a test.

[broken moss]

facts

[reef spoke]

Friendly rock c:

[foggy phoenix]

You clear the 1st part and ride the shuttle, it's a guaranteed win.

[vast wigeon]

if im playing with absolute twats on the cold mission and the phage tree, "im good dog"

[broken moss]

I get barreled from friendly fire im gone

[patent bone]

Best rock

[broken moss]

at this point I sit in the sewer and snipe barrels before I even drop

[foggy phoenix]

You get barreled off the map, or the team wipes from the horde that spawns with the synchronisters, the team isn't fated to win

[broken moss]

facts

[foggy phoenix]

But the moment you ride in the shuttle, you know you'll win.

[broken moss]

yea if you can make it to the shuttle you're good

but those first few fights are monsters

the fuckin power relay

or whatever it is

that keeps resetting cuz nobody can get to it in the 10 seconds they give you

[foggy phoenix]

Power relay is only a pain if the ranged elites are permitted to live

[broken moss]

40 ragers spawning from the fence

[foggy phoenix]

Otherwise, I'd gladly run circles around it over and over again

[reef spoke]

Power Relay is a bastard that spams gunners

I have a shield build ogryn for that map actually lmao

[broken moss]

there's a lot of everything but it's the ragers and bombers that make it frustrating for me

[reef spoke]

The fact they come from effectively every angle is annoying too

[broken moss]

seriously if the team is on point and sticks together and knows what to do it's easy but I'll find people all over the place

[foggy phoenix]

There's plenty of space to maneuver with on that map that I get more trouble from the ranged elites than the actual horde

The horde, you can kite to death

[broken moss]

like I try to camp out among the stacks so I can get to the reset easier but I'm usually alone

[foggy phoenix]

The ranged elites, if your team has no vet, you have to awkwardly dodge sprint/slide as you kite the horde

[broken moss]

dude

idk who it was. it was too chaotic to be paying attention to the feed. but I had one the other night that was loaded with snipers. I don't think it was sniper gauntlet but it was histg and they were dense af. and someone kept whoring ammo. I had none. but in spite of that they never took out the snipers. I had to find ways to maneuver myself into position to go kill them with melee or just run out the area.

[lilac ermine]

When will the add vs. mode

Like l4d2

[foggy phoenix]

When moving to certain sections of the map, the snipers can all end up in exactly the same spot.
This was the effect of a single double barrel shot

The area before, it was a literal disco's worth of lasers

Move past them

[broken moss]

yea these weren't all in one spot

crossfire everywhere

[foggy phoenix]

This was in the uh

[broken moss]

whole run was full of snipers

[foggy phoenix]

Refinery mission

One where you reactivate the forge

[shut pier]

Hey what are the two top perks and blessings for the shives for auric?

[broken moss]

icr which this was. the one with the fountain followed by steep stairs leading to the next area

[foggy phoenix]

If you run past all the snipers right before the final area, the moment you drop down to where the last medicae of the map is, they were all literally right there

[reef skiff]

i had a mission like that. there was a moment where we were legitimately stuck in a room together because there was like 50 snipers outside who'd instakill you the moment you left the room

[broken moss]

I remember that vividly cuz that specific area was particularly ripe with those things

[foggy phoenix]

Auric? Literally anything ngl

[reef skiff]

whatever im playin arc raiders rn

[broken moss]

not if you want to do damage

[low harbor]

Flak, carapace
Uncanny, riposte

[versed spruce]

Uncanny and Riposte IIRC

[foggy phoenix]

Uncanny and the crit rate on dodge is pretty reliable

Though I personally run haymaker

Don't need uncanny when I have 80% crit rate and tox on hit)))))

[broken moss]

I wish ppl would stop giving that advice. it's likely why I get so many people in my lobbies with 1/5th anyone else's damage and can't kill hordes well enough to stay alive

[versed spruce]

I feel like human-sized enemies all die quickly enough for shivs to not really get value out of Haymaker

[gleaming torrent]

How would i get the Speedster and Enhanced penances?

[low harbor]

Haymaker is really strong for it too

[foggy phoenix]

Pack of ragers/maulers say hi

[cedar cairn]

If they're Stimm penances, play lots of Dependency

[versed spruce]

Hyper violence and heavy attack spam + Uncanny

Quite shrimple

[icy scaffold]

Have you tried uncanny precog?

[broken moss]

idk if haymaker is working but I definitely kill things quicker when it's on. placebo or not, it shreds

[foggy phoenix]

Best part is, since haymaker's chance is per hit, and shivs have 2 hitboxes, you get 2 stacks of haymaker each heavy with the shivs

Quite quick to reach the max stacks, and hyper violence helps with the bleedover

[versed spruce]

That changes things if true

My big thing was that in the time to stack haymaker, you can already have killed the enemy xd

[hybrid oyster]

yea it is, you can hit 2 targets/get 2 stacks if they're positioned right

[spiral horizon]

running Yaymaker and spreading joy through tertium

I think I'm becoming a crowbar fan fellas, what are y'all running on it?

[broken moss]

it's only on the overhead afaik. lights you hit so fast you get more "hits" in anyways

[broken moss]

I think most will simply tell you to run shivs cuz it's the ultra god mode pick and people do love playing meta. but if you're getting good damage out of it and like the move set, rock it. it's just not "the best melee in the game"

[lapis raft]

only if you actually hit 2 enemies at once, doesnt work against single enemy

[versed spruce]

Oh okay

I mean still notable but not as big as I thought

[north meteor]

just had someone in a game where I was level 18 (still performed better than them) and they go "so much for being havoc forged, huh?" and insta left

they were level 30

[tight musk]

Crit chance on push blessing (Bash?) and Superiority, 25% dmg to carapace and...I don't remember the other perk. Probably 25% unyielding.

[bronze glade]

Feels awful ngl

[broken moss]

pretty sure you don't run crit on the crowbar

my understanding is it's crit stats aren't very good. that, and it's kinda slow

[hybrid oyster]

crowbar is fun

I like it so far

[tight musk]

Heavy 1 does stupid damage on a crit headshot.

[hybrid oyster]

the grabby grabby infinite stun is great too

[broken moss]

on beak mode?

[astral sundial]

🙁

[versed spruce]

Crowbar is fun until you swap to shivs

[astral sundial]

Im sad

[broken moss]

the issue with that is it only hits one target and locks you in for it. not how you want to be running through a map

[versed spruce]

Then it feels a little anemic in comparison but still useful

[lucid raptor]

i miss the free weekend

[astral sundial]

I must have lost my shivs mid mission

now all i have are the pieces of fabric i used to hold them

[broken moss]

naw bro mashed lmb so hard his shivs turned to dust

I'm dying

that's actually funny. I've never seen that

[lilac ermine]

What is havoc forged title I cant find anywhere in google

[astral sundial]

Same XD I was VERY surprised when I checked my loadout.

[low harbor]

Given your record of not getting twinned blast even once across 24 grenade throws (0.47% chance) I’d say that tracks pretty well

[astral sundial]

Does the stimlab also change with my builds btw?

[main wagon]

IIRC havoc forged is the “reach hav 40” one

Havoc exemplar is “do 100 havoc missions”

[main wagon]

Yea if you set anything in there it’ll be for that build only

[brittle sierra]

complete a havoc 40

[lilac ermine]

Ok ty

[light sorrel]

dont know where to put last point