hivescum-class

[compact oyster]

Drop lightning speed for immaterial focus

[novel oracle]

disrupt destiny with just the base version at max stacks is 15% damage 30% crit damage, and 45% weakspot damage

all rolled into one

plus a ton of toughness and movement speed from just 1 kill

[limber cradle]

Psyker getting infinite free stats for existing

[novel oracle]

i am not doing that

[livid raven]

melee build 101

[novel oracle]

hm yeah lets drop the only attack speed buff i can possibly get
on a melee build

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/noob-risitas-funny-meme-laughing-gif-18917081

[livid raven]

you can drop maleficum momentum and grab a staff instead

[novel oracle]

i have laspistol

im not taking a staff

[compact oyster]

You really dont need the attack speed buff

[limber cradle]

This shit+FGS is some of the most free darktide I've ever experienced

[calm aurora]

fgs without attack speed is painful bro

[livid raven]

stop using your puny laser handcannon and get in the melee fray

[novel oracle]

dude 10% attack speed is night and day

[compact oyster]

I make it work

[novel oracle]

i mean i can make it work
but why would i
youre asking me to make the build worse

[calm aurora]

I'll drop anticipation instead

[novel oracle]

anticipation kinda fucks super hard on the fgs

[livid raven]

i found the normal dodge distance to be pretty ok with fgs

[calm aurora]

it's making a bad mobility weapon into a mediocre one

[rigid dock]

also imagine dogging on the laspistol on DD Scriers Gaze Psyker

[livid raven]

actually wait, it increases the duration, not distance

[novel oracle]

its not about the mobility

its the dodge linger

[patent bone]

Hey Hey people, dumbass here

[livid raven]

i'm sorry but if you use the laspistol on a melee build you are a coward

you have to smash people with the sword

[calm aurora]

I know but with kd you can also block

you're not a sitting duck

[novel oracle]

which could end scriers sooner
also it does greatly help with overheads

[livid raven]

if i had 31 talent points, i would always take anticipation

[novel oracle]

its like obnoxiously strong against daemonhosts too

[rigid dock]

if its cowardice to dump mags into a plague ogryns face and watch its healthbar vanish like a magic trick then call me a coward boss

[novel oracle]

thats where you really see just how much its doing for you

[patent bone]

Just go range build

Dummy

Silly goose

[rigid dock]

why when you can do both

[calm aurora]

ok, so drop EE and take a shotgun instead 😄

[patent bone]

Farty McButtface

[glad latch]

Would be neat if zealot could take two melee weapons and have a built in passive that boosts melee attack speed and damage for taking two melee weapons.

[livid raven]

true, it's strange we still don't have a melee only class

[rigid dock]

thats too much kruber for darktide

[livid raven]

also with this build, you don't use the laspistol for boss busting do you

[rigid dock]

even getting close to that much sir kruber goodness in the arbites tree led to them making the most busted thing ever for a while

[livid raven]

like, the fgs has insane damage against bosses

[rigid dock]

its more whether the situation calls for it surely

[compact oyster]

It is funny that psyker melee builds gravitate towards the same setup with minor differences

[novel oracle]

it only makes it faster
just spray into their face as you close in, and now you have 12 burn stacks on them too

its also really good against bulwarks and reapers

cuz its unyielding damage

and its crit rate basically means you can just go immune to ranged damage whenever you need to

[calm aurora]

fgs has superiority or is it only on fs?

[livid raven]

it doesn't

[calm aurora]

sadge

[livid raven]

i don't think you would pick it either

[calm aurora]

i would pick it instead of unstable

[novel oracle]

if youre on a melee build i can see it being better

[compact oyster]

Also psyker having giga DR fits with biomancy

[novel oracle]

its 37.5% strength instead of 20%

and it decays 1 at a time so it lasts way longer than youd expect

[calm aurora]

the uptime of superiority is kinda bonkers when you look at it

[patent bone]

Making a Hive Scum Playlist, any recommendations?

[novel oracle]

unstable would be better for a backup melee for a staff build where you swap when you dont have time to quell and need to melee

superiority is when youre slaying the fuck out

[compact oyster]

Unstable finesse

[rigid dock]

just noticed, cole you prefer flak over carapace on FGS?

[novel oracle]

oh did i not change that

that was old

[calm aurora]

the prodigy, health (the band), nine inch nails

[compact oyster]

You have warp ghost to hold unstable for a good while

[novel oracle]

that build was mostly made before carapace increases

[calm aurora]

maybe the OST of Trainspotting

[rigid dock]

yeah its still up on that guide

[patent bone]

Love one and three, never heard the second band

[rigid dock]

was gonna say ive never felt like i wanted flak on that thing

[patent bone]

What is a good song to listen to?

[calm aurora]

https://youtu.be/-G9bIDalnRY?si=Gx8McdbM8AGUaHXR

https://youtu.be/6W2E6jNXzBE?si=06_tNriKLwxeA4aC

[rigid dock]

look up the max payne 3 soundtrack tbh

[novel oracle]

i mean youve seen what my stuff is

[calm aurora]

fuck yeah you are right

[patent bone]

Need more angry

[patent bone]

Goated soundtrack

[rigid dock]

whole game is built around a drugged out drunk pos trying to get his life together the soundtrack matches perfectly

pretty sure it led to hleath getting their big break

[patent bone]

Just found out Health did the ost for Max Payne 3. I have ascended

[calm aurora]

they also participated to CP77

[patent bone]

Oh type shit? Never played CP77

[calm aurora]

I also recommend Carpenter Brut

[patent bone]

Oh I LOVE Carpenter Brut

Already got Roller Mobster

[calm aurora]

And Gesaffelstein https://youtu.be/oRSijEW_cDM?si=_MpbT8M7QExbtNdx

[patent bone]

https://tenor.com/view/catjam-cat-disco-catjamming-gif-16989864924126703156

[manic wolf]

thats a tune

[calm aurora]

good ole Atari Teenare Riot too https://youtu.be/i8JBUktSxvQ?si=kHaQq3EzPYfHovWj

[patent bone]

Such a banger

As soon as I heard that in Hacknet, I fell in love

Le Perv and Killer Turbo are also great

[mighty belfry]

I've played the UFE Raid theme over Torrent missions cuz the aesthetic of them always came across to me as a sorta grimdark favela.

[compact oyster]

Kez is stuff

[steel briar]

Good anime

[patent bone]

Didn't see this. Now I'm feeling Sandevestated

I asked for music, not depression

[clear isle]

bros, braced autogun, do I dump collateral or mobility

I got both already and was choosing one to get rid of

thinking of slapping it on desperado for the funny

[turbid fulcrum]

I found braces autoguns to be very meh with Desparado,

[rigid dock]

been a long time since i looked but doesnt collateral only effect one of the braced marks meaningfully?

please dont quote me on this this very much could be misremembered

[clear isle]

idk

Im used to ppl saying to always dump either, whichever you get first

[clear isle]

braced autogun in general is meh compared to the other weapons, but it sounds funny to whip out an 85ish bullet mag

I think its about the same level as the dual autopistols?

[broken moss]

yea daps are 80 iirc

fire rate like a p90

[toxic dagger]

60, no?

[tired prairie]

DAPs have 59 or 60 by default, yeah

[broken moss]

something like that

it's plenty.

[clear isle]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-are-we-headass-stare-gif-2486628733227537231

[vocal saffron]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/lIYx7VsNZAH7qKTpB?invite=cr-MSxCUFUsMjA0MjU2ODk0&v=14

I LOVE DCLAW

[supple kraken]

yo I found some drukhari grade fent

want to prank arbitrators with it

[grand jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/memes-jesus-christ-kids-gif-12765867

[novel oracle]

gg

[pallid quail]

69 if ur cool

also i vote we stop calling it dap

[mighty belfry]

shh i was typing in game chat and it somehow ended up here

[signal nebula]

what difficulty was this?

[grand jewel]

[main trellis]

That was a short mission

[grand jewel]

very

[unreal stirrup]

man dclaw still feel ass on scum lol

[vocal saffron]

Havoc 25 or smthn

25 - 30 idr

[fallen void]

best melees to use on rampage scum?

been considering chainaxe

[median bridge]

Okay everyone hands in the air. I have a serious question

What weapon should I bring with the support hive scum?

Like melee weapon

[mighty belfry]

Shivs are always a solid pick for anything really

But if you're talking full on chemist scum, bonesaw ain't a bad choice either

[median bridge]

Hmmm okay thank you.

[mighty belfry]

Tac axe is also really good

[winter galleon]

I think im becoming a vraks convert ill miss run and gun to chase doen snipers and gunner packs but the damage is so much more and can just shoot them from further away

[patent bone]

FUCK YESSS

[pallid quail]

yea share it with ogryn

or else

[patent bone]

Already took it all

[pallid quail]

puke it up or ill schlorp it out of your bone marrow

[patent bone]

Don't threaten me with a good time

[pallid quail]

[patent bone]

Anyways gonna hop on to some Darktide and hopefully not connect to the middle east region

[signal nebula]

Interesting. Devil claw damage holding up in Havoc then. Let me know how it does as you go higher

[pallid quail]

gross im goin to bed

[digital mango]

i always go with the wide swing shivs 🙂

[signal nebula]

Define support

You playing Crate?

And what keystone?

[unreal stirrup]

why is pushgryn so common in havoc now

mfs do literally nothing the whole game

[tired prairie]

I want to say that it’s a „tank” mentality washing over Darktide at present, but that’s not exactly a fair take for these people’s credit about having a different definition of fun

It’s just „unfortunate” that that playstyle just has no feasible justification in the game over other builds 💀

[supple kraken]

found sum more

[spring gulch]

can someone send there hive scum build

[unreal stirrup]

mfs are legit liability because they deal zero damage

[winter galleon]

Weakpoint talent node seems underwhelming even on vraks, thought people were saying on vraks it was good. But in meat grinder testing it only changes number of bullets needed for a boss by 3-5 bullets roughly am i missing something?

[unreal stirrup]

i just want to get back to 40

[tired prairie]

Shield can deal damage - that’s not the problem. It’s the mentality that’s not working on the plane of performance/people probably being oblivious as to how much they can contribute as a „tank”.

[unreal stirrup]

yeah i fucking know because i main shield if on ogryn lol

my problem is pushgryn

[tired prairie]

So… how does that differ from regular Slab shield Ogryn? Do they take the brittleness on push skill and taunt, and middle keystone, and that’s their entire game plan?

[unreal stirrup]

no they literally just push

that their entire fucking gameplan

[calm aurora]

Check the pinned messages

[radiant magnet]

hey, witch one of you scummers is tryna sell stims to the ogryns?

[winter galleon]

Depends what build im feeling day to day. Sometimes its fun to be a dealer

[calm aurora]

what is a pushgryn?

[unreal stirrup]

imagine shield ogryn but all they do is push

"tanking"

[pulsar aspen]

I don't have to imagine, i saw it.

The playstile matches the players skill.

[neon fern]

i never saw it, lucky ig

[pulsar aspen]

They just walk around and push stuff.

Sometimes they bunker up with their shield.

So most of the time they are.. not really helpful.

[radiant swift]

I don't think i've seen anything like hat happen since they buffed the shield and ogryn

[shadow shale]

I've seen those types a few times.

So bizarre people.

Standing in a corner and holding block is their entire gameplan

[radiant swift]

was particularly bad when the shield was absymal dogshit

cuase even if they where trying to be useful the thing did such shit damage they couldn't

[grand jewel]

yeah cuz its damnation lol

[normal steeple]

do stimm supply effects stack

[livid raven]

they do

[normal steeple]

so if me and a friend both take cdr we get double the effect?

[signal nebula]

He said it was havoc 25

[livid raven]

i think so, but i don't know how they stack

[radiant swift]

different effects I am fairly sure should stack

idk about the same effect

[novel oracle]

It should
I know your own crate can stack

[grand jewel]

which is damnation scaling

[manic wolf]

In the early days of Darktide where you'd periodically see Ogryns sit in the middle of a horde with a planted shield and get trapperd a couple seconds later 😄

[signal nebula]

Are you saying the enemies on damnation and havoc 25 have the same hp?

[grand jewel]

yea

[novel oracle]

H25 is gonna be a bit more

[signal nebula]

That's not correct

[pulsar aspen]

Auric Maelstrom puts your Havoc Deployment Rank at 16.

[grand jewel]

which is heresy scaling whats your point lol

[novel oracle]

Its scaling off of damnation stats, so the modifiers bring it higher than damnation

[manic wolf]

16 isnt Heresy scaling, there is no way

[novel oracle]

It is

[manic wolf]

Just for enemy HP? Cos there is barely any enemies in it at that level

[novel oracle]

1-10 is malice
11-20 is heresy
21+ is damnation

[novel oracle]

For everything

The modifiers scale off of everything in that difficulty

[manic wolf]

Lmao, it didnt feel like that at all if I'm remembering rightly

[novel oracle]

Its why 21 is such a big jump in difficulty

[manic wolf]

Icr what 21 was like tbh

I just remember the early levels being like piss easy

That being said, I suppose you dont have the added difficulty modifier of mission board pugs

[unreal stirrup]

on fucking god how did these mfs got true survivor

[pulsar aspen]

What kind of mission was that?

[unreal stirrup]

h40

[winter galleon]

what perks on vraks? crit/carapace? without crit in psychanium i notice vultures falls off occassionally even at point blank range hitting every bullet

[unreal stirrup]

they legit dont have object permanace @pulsar aspen

how did these mfs get to 40

[wind crane]

is there any fix to pinging location not working at times? (double tap, not wheel)

[pulsar aspen]

Was this.. successful?

[unreal stirrup]

no

[pulsar aspen]

Thought as much.

[unreal stirrup]

of fucking course now

not

[pulsar aspen]

That would have made me question as to how.

[unreal stirrup]

i cant carry literal lobotomites

[novel oracle]

No, it just has to go away or you reboot

[unreal stirrup]

there like 3 situation where i had to clutch and mfs keep dying over again

[wind crane]

+1 bug to the bug pile

[pulsar aspen]

I've heard that some people play this game while drunk/stoned or .. otherwise pre-occupied

[novel oracle]

This has been a bug for months

[wind crane]

i was thinking maybe theres a mod that auto uses the wheel

so circumvents it

[pulsar aspen]

But who knows, maybe they rely on mods and can't actually play the game.

[radiant swift]

it's me I do, but I also don't/wouldn't play h40 like that

[novel oracle]

It also prevents the use of tab
Or changing spectators if your dead

[pulsar aspen]

Maybe they all got carried somehow. Cheesed the penance that is supposed to be a challenge for YOU and not something to just tick off.

[wind crane]

ah yea noticed that spectator thing too

[fast gust]

Exploits

[fast gust]

Occasionaly it can be fixed on alt tabbing and then pinging a material

So far I've had a 100% success rate on it when it happens

That or the game crashes

🫡

[wind crane]

lol

[winter galleon]

60% of the time it works every time

[wind crane]

this game is so good, why are fatshark throwing? fix the bugs

[fast gust]

Do I need to bring up the list of unfixed barely not-gamebreaking bugs in vt2?

[wind crane]

ah didnt play that game

[livid raven]

don't worry

the next hotfix is coming, in february

[unreal stirrup]

yeah we make people invulnerable to ranged attack but that won't get fixed until February

[livid raven]

could be worse

[pulsar aspen]

I'd rather have bigger poxburster explosions

[patent bone]

Biggest bug however still remains

That fucking purple

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/threaten-i-will-kill-you-bare-fucking-hands-im-telling-you-fiona-gallagher-gif-11479662

[main wagon]

If I lose the drip because of you vocal treadies who can't accept the alliance cosmetics I swear to Big E

The evidence for my theory is the premium cosmetic having pieces of both Cartel and Treadie to indicate solidarity in conscription

[north meteor]

and my pub teammates still get bent over

[unreal stirrup]

yeah

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/477231216714579968/1450848472893751366/Warhammer_40-000-_Darktide_-_2025-12-17_8-52-55_PM.mp4?ex=6944076f&is=6942b5ef&hm=9bf86aa3bad37fb27ce5c7df76d4f3b5b7e96b84dadb56faf14f5fc88d93b759&

I even have to use shield

[novel oracle]

Holy shit fuck this dodge change

[main wagon]

Written into the mental bank, you absolute legend

[unreal stirrup]

it's stupid

I would've fucking die right there if the dodge work as intended

[unreal stirrup]

maybe I would've kill myself faster though because these mfs make my brain hurt

[zenith pagoda]

Huh why has my road to no man's land progress been reset

https://tenor.com/view/jgmm-cat-meme-ragebait-cat-think-cat-ponder-gif-7034802297606826390

[unreal stirrup]

yeah same

[pulsar aspen]

Spaghetti Code

[unreal stirrup]

can still qp though

[rancid coral]

Holy truth nuke

[main wagon]

F

[radiant swift]

MR PRESIDENT GET DOWN

[main wagon]

I vote for the candidate that elects to kill all bulwarks

[radiant swift]

which message resonates most with the voters

"lets talk better milage"

"kill em all"

[alpine junco]

https://youtu.be/J9VE2lFJYpc?si=mOoOvyH743_w6TTw tried to make a video what do you guys think

[rotund agate]

what do you call a sack with a Hivescum player inside?

a scumbag.

[main trellis]

Oh thats me

[dim moth]

look what the scum needs to mimic a fraction of veteran's power

[lavish forge]

What was the dodge change

[calm aurora]

linger applies to range now

so you can dodge bullets matrix style

[rotund agate]

can't you normally only dodge bullets with the normal dodge i-frames?

[lavish forge]

Linger?

[radiant swift]

a small window that happens after you are finished with the physical dodge movement

it's like .2 seconds and all classes execpt ogryn have it

[rotund agate]

talents like Nimble increase the linger duration, right?

[calm aurora]

that's angle sprinting

[radiant swift]

idk if it does

but they changed the mechanic to make it work so

[wind crane]

seems to work by pinging a material

[fast gust]

It's odd sometimes yes

[trim wind]

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-dodge-neo-gif-13288848

[zealous ravine]

does quick and deadly work on melee?

from kuli guide

[neon fern]

the great dodge bug of winter 25'

[dim moth]

all damage

[zealous ravine]

guh

wonder if they'll fix that eventually or if its gonna stay fatshark description moment

[rare stirrup]

it says "any damage" though

intended behaviour

[zealous ravine]

well thats on the guide

[rare stirrup]

the description is rather ambiguous, yeah

[dim moth]

it's outright wrong is what it is

it should just say Close Damage like thi does

[rare stirrup]

i think ranged just refers to the distance ("close ranged") rather than the fact that the damage is dealt by a ranged weapon

the description is ass, but not strictly wrong

[dim moth]

it is wrong

because Close Damage is what is used to refer to all damage within 12.5 meters everywhere else

Close Ranged Damage is present on Ogryn's Point Blank Barrage which...only boosts ranged damage at close range

[rare stirrup]

then it is wrong lol

[zealous ravine]

what if it was someone else that made the desc lmao

would explain it

[rare stirrup]

very possible

[zealous ravine]

just like how this tree uses the t erm power instead of str

[lavish forge]

I see, I always thought it was a skill issue on my end whenever I got shredded by gunners while dodging

I mean, it was but like

Yk

[radiant swift]

it used to just apply to melee

now it applies to ranged even while out of dodges

💀

[zealous ravine]

christmas miracle

[trim wind]

https://tenor.com/view/keanu-reeves-the-matrix-bullets-stop-gun-gif-17396986

[lavish forge]

Me dodging bullets

[calm aurora]

the true survivor generation

[zealous ravine]

REJECTS we have struggled for too long i, rannick, have found our strongest reinforcements yet

https://tenor.com/bv9Y2.gif

[zenith pagoda]

Is it me or the taxe is better than rashad?

On crit builds anyway

[radiant swift]

more fun certainly

[zenith pagoda]

I can 2 shot heavy bullwarks

Maulers sometimes take 2 hits

[tranquil fjord]

rashad is slow

[zealous ravine]

if anything tac axe defo fits hive scum more

[radiant swift]

tac axe is peak crackhead feel

[zenith pagoda]

I'm using MK4 which is supposed to be the weak one I think

And it's still cracked

[radiant swift]

mk4 is the carpal tunnel + edition the other taxe's are just regular carpal tunnel

[zealous ravine]

i wanted to get a taxe but apparently i am poor

yeah that didnt work out

well back to being a psykhanium goblin

[tulip axle]

is needle pistol affected by ranged damage and ranged toughness kills?

[rare stirrup]

not if the enemies die to toxin

[alpine junco]

yes, but it is funno

[alpine junco]

these two images bring me so much pain, i can understand them completely

[zealous ravine]

im never running out of plasteel or diamantine but am so poor in dockets lmao

[north meteor]

I have ~1m dockets and like 50k plasteel and 30k Diamantine

my dockets fly to 0 occasionally

[zealous ravine]

im a professional docket waster

wonder if i should go to the casino with my last 8120

[broken moss]

whoa wtf are you spending your gold on?

[north meteor]

I always spend all my dockets when I decide to play a new build because I have to roll the two perfect weapons and then level them to 20 the expensive way

[broken moss]

I've got millions and nowhere I can think of to spend it

level them to 20 the expensive way?

[zealous ravine]

hive scum ate a lot of my mone

getting 60% mob rolls

[broken moss]

oh NVM

[north meteor]

instead of actually leveling them in game, I sacrifice

[broken moss]

yea I've done that plenty and I've still got millions

[zealous ravine]

i also sacrificed a decent bit

i think i spent 3m on hive scum lmao

[broken moss]

idk. my gold is just... there

Jesus

[north meteor]

yea I'm about ~1m

and its been a minutes since I hit 0

[zealous ravine]

i mean its nice that i still have something to grind for i guess?

[fallen coyote]

I have 800k plasteel but little to no dockets

Almost bought out the store tho

[zealous ravine]

its gonna start piling up again now that im done with hive weps

[broken moss]

of the 10 - 12 weapons I've built up on scum I think I've only mastered 2-3 weapons by way of sacrifice

they need an exchange rate system

[rotund agate]

I always have around 50k plasteel but never even 1k diamantine...

[north meteor]

low key they could create more sinks

[zealous ravine]

hive scum experiencing rogue trader ship tap water for the first time

[fallen coyote]

More weapon shaders

[north meteor]

like to run Havoc 40, you need to give 40k dockets to attempt or something

[fallen coyote]

Or reissue some

[zealous ravine]

i mean

if i can skip the rank grind through dockets

i'd do that cause its awful

[fallen coyote]

Day 1 docket exploit moment

[north meteor]

they really do need more in game cosmetics that you can purchase with in game currency

[lilac ermine]

I spent like millions of plasteel before they updated crafting

[north meteor]

that is not what I'm saying

[broken moss]

bro as few people that already run havoc, they'd eventually just run out of money to do it

[zealous ravine]

yeah but what u said was scary

[north meteor]

[fallen coyote]

My point is that there are a ton of shaders for the og wespons that just arent being used atm

[north meteor]

it would keep bad players from attempting

[zealous ravine]

havoc needs to be more accessible not less

[fallen coyote]

They stopped making them for a while because originally every skin used to have its own model

[north meteor]

like you think any skill level should be able to complete havoc 40?

[fallen coyote]

So 1 skin = 12 weapons

[zealous ravine]

no they should have to climb it to 40 first

then they should b able to run h40 anytime forever

[broken moss]

any further development on cosmetics WILL be monetized with real world money. I see no universe they throw dev time into free shit despite needing it pretty badly. 2 classes have none, and the 4 that do.. most their cosmetics are just recolors or reskins with minor changes

[north meteor]

I think having resets is fine

[broken moss]

this is true

[zealous ravine]

resets just fully ruin the gamemode for me

[north meteor]

Its the "competitive" mode

and I think that's fine for what it is

[zealous ravine]

it'd fix if they just added a difficult gamemode without any of these rank elements

[north meteor]

people who don't like that can just play quickplay or mortis and that doesn't change the game for them

[dim moth]

resets are the main contributor to havoc being annoying to play

[zealous ravine]

or just made havoc not miserable

[broken moss]

but imagine the hatred when your team wiped and cost you the run there's already animosity over that sort of thing

[dim moth]

everybody who plays havoc in its current state plays like a scared little bitch

because they don't want to lose ranks

[zealous ravine]

yeah but quickplay is up to only auric

and thats lame

[dim moth]

and that translates to party finder as well

[zealous ravine]

we'd need a diff 6 or higher to really make it work out

[dim moth]

they're scare dlittle bitches so they don't want to accept anybody they think won't pull their weight

[north meteor]

I think they could create a separate system for non ranked for sure, but I also think the people that like Havocs deserve the competitive system

[dim moth]

resets and rank loss Need to be removed if havoc is going go to be even playable for people who don't have a group to just force their way into h40

[zealous ravine]

havoc is just entirely miserable to get into nowadays

[north meteor]

also yea, I feel like matchmaking should exist for this ngl

[zealous ravine]

the first climb was alright i guess

[broken moss]

I mean I don't blame them, really

[zealous ravine]

i mean if i was to climb to 40 i'd just play ogryn or arbys

just to get through it as fast as possible

so i can actually enjoy h40 cause it has no derank slop

then i can try hive scum as much as i want

[broken moss]

you're already forced to go through the hassle of PF to even play the content, and you're given the ability to deny or kick players from the party. why not take advantage of that?

[north meteor]

I think h40 level content should be available for pubs, but I also think think that the ranking system should exist for the people who want it

[zealous ravine]

that might be the best fix

the real issue is that i want difficult content without multiple hours of miserable grind that repeats itself every time i wanna play the game again

[leaden fable]

Last time I hosted a havoc lobby (at 30) the first person I accepted took it upon themselves to accept the next two people that applied, both of whom had no havoc ranking at all

[zealous ravine]

the b est fix i've found is just trying solo h40 runs through the mod lmao

[north meteor]

and instead of being able to be thrown into a higher one, just make its a grind like its kinda designed for. Everyone has to climb by joining a queue

[dim moth]

I don't think anybody wants the ranking system really

[north meteor]

I mean I do

[dim moth]

Sorry nobody has a reason to want the ranking system would be a better thing to say

[north meteor]

I think its interesting, but could use some tweaks to be implemented better

[dim moth]

It's an objectively bad system that there is no reason to keep around other than vibes

[north meteor]

I also agree with this

[broken moss]

miserable grind? that's the game bruh

[north meteor]

I don't think having a ranked system is bad, but I do think its implemented poorly

[zealous ravine]

miserable grind is havoc up to rank 39

h40 is fun

until they reset it that is then its miserable again

[broken moss]

I'd hardly call havoc a ranked system. it's just difficulty levels gated by prior success

[north meteor]

having to handpick your team really sucks the ranked right out of it. People just want to be carried

[turbid fulcrum]

Anyone defending the havoc system in its current state is delulu

[north meteor]

I don't think anyone is

[dim moth]

okay so youjust have two conflicting beliefs and enough cognitive dissonance to maintain both

weird

[north meteor]

I don't?

[broken moss]

ranked would actually be a long term assessment that took time to increase and was persistent and indicative of actual skill

[north meteor]

I think people deserve hard content without a grind. I also think people deserve a ranked system if they want to play it that way

[dim moth]

I don't see how you can agree that we shouldn't have a multiple hour grind just to play havoc, but also still want havoc to have a ranked system

a ranked system that will always necessitate a grind

[zealous ravine]

just add difficulty 6 and maybe higher to get done with it lol

no need to rework havoc so its way easier

[north meteor]

I don't agree we shouldn't have that. I agree that the majority of the playerbase shouldn't have to do that grind if they don't want to

[radiant swift]

mfw they did make a difficulty 6

and now it's difficulty 5

[zealous ravine]

sedition wasnt real we made it up

[radiant swift]

mfw they also power crept the fuck out of the game

[zealous ravine]

yea the mission board difficulties just dont go high enough

[broken moss]

sedition was so bad they removed it from existence

[dim moth]

okay but for the most part it was fun power creep

[north meteor]

And for the ranked system, you shouldn't be able to party find and get carried. You should matchmake

[radiant swift]

yeah, we are just more powerful in general now though

[broken moss]

idk who played in sedition and enjoyed it

[dim moth]

https://tenor.com/view/castorice-powercreep-hsr-castorice-hsr-dragon-gif-8292897753528429760

[rare stirrup]

my only qualm with havoc is the party system

[zealous ravine]

when does dt finally just allow me to play the videogame already

wheres modded realm to skip havoc grind lmao

[north meteor]

being able to handpick your team in a ranked mode is pretty ridiculous unless you're all in the same category like other ranked games

but I do want a havoc 40 level game mode for when I don't want to do the grind

[zenith pagoda]

Handpicking does nothing when everyone is noob

[rare stirrup]

tbh i think its fine to handpick if youre forced to play at the highest rank of your team

but youre not

[broken moss]

havoc isn't a ranked game mode

[north meteor]

but it is, its just very poorly implemented

[broken moss]

there's no mmr, no elo, and no leaderboard

[dim moth]

Though I will say seeing the Helldivers 2 "no nerf only buff" players spreading like a cancer to other coop games

[broken moss]

it's literally just a difficulty ladder

[dim moth]

I do think Havoc needs some kind of feature to gatekeep bad players

[main trellis]

Then it woudn’t be called endgame now would it?
Its contradicting; the only choice is to either partake in it or don’t; there is no inbetween

[radiant swift]

its disheartening

[broken moss]

like the pit in Diablo

[dim moth]

Beyond just seeing the defeat screen every time you load into it and see 3 dueling swords

Like there should be some requirement to unlock high havocs that a bad player just can't reasonably accomplish

[broken moss]

my "in between" is to simply do my weeklies for my free shit when I remember to do em

[main trellis]

Agreed; havoc has already dogshit gatekeep to begin with
Oh you’re lv 30 already? Havoc is available get in there!

[zealous ravine]

i think its hilarous that its more fun to complain about havoc than actually try to get into it

[north meteor]

I genuinely don’t understand. Most players play in heresy anyway. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make

[dim moth]

level 30 baby doing their first maelstrom then they breeze through havoc 16-25

[main trellis]

no wonder there are soo many dogwater players in havoc

[dim moth]

And then they do havoc 25

and get slaughtered

[main trellis]

Its fun when you have tasks

[dim moth]

especially if the maelstrom they did is one of the easy ones like the uuuh one that's just monstrous specialists+wves of specialists

or any of the nurgle blessed ones

[glacial gyro]

remember when ogryn bomb was considered an extremely powerful explosion

[dim moth]

It still is?

[glacial gyro]

and thats why you only got 1

[main trellis]

They play heresy; they don’t play endgame either cause no time or not willing to
Simple

[main trellis]

💯

[dim moth]

Especially with DH rituals around in havoc

[north meteor]

This is objective. How does this counter what I was saying?

[main trellis]

Meanwhile humble 4 capacity rocket launcher

[broken moss]

I think losing access to achieved difficulty tiers shouldn't be a thing. they force people to curate their own groups because it's a team game and you're only 25% responsible for what happens. just make it QP match made by brackets and unlock brackets as you complete their highest levels

[glacial gyro]

That was indeed what I was talking about

[dim moth]

Do u think there might be other factors at play as to why scum gets 4 rockets and ogryn gets 1 nuke

[glacial gyro]

no

[main trellis]

It does not; it states how it is - you either partake in endgame or don’t; simple
The choice is of the player

[dim moth]

Is there a reason that scum's chem grenades are just a direct upgrade to zealot immolators?

[livid raven]

no

[main trellis]

Ogryn dumb & risky to carry more

[broken moss]

cuz they needed it as busted as possible to generate positive feedback to drive sales

after January when all the sales have been acquired it will be getting nerfed.

[dim moth]

is there also a reason why blinders with pocket toxin are one of the best crowd control and CC tools in the game

or is it just divine coincidence that the class designed around be squishy have good damage, happens to have better damage tools than other classes

[broken moss]

it's basically arbites nade with poison

[main trellis]

Yeah about those

tooltip states it staggers enemies
does not stagger at all (from kulis guide)

[broken moss]

I still prefer chem nade

[broken moss]

huh?

[main trellis]

Inferno nades

[broken moss]

staggers shit so hard it knocks them down

oh the inferno

[hazy vector]

anyone tried combat shotguns on hs?

[glacial gyro]

What are we talking about here?

[dim moth]

lying ass game

[broken moss]

damn

[dim moth]

you spend so much time fucking reloading

it is NOT worth it

[main trellis]

Imagine how more useful it would be to stagger in its radius

[broken moss]

probably did stagger at one point but they realized that was busted and nerfed it but said "I can't be fucked to change 2 lines of text" afterwards

[radiant swift]

the only thing that really bothers me is chem nades specifically being basically just exactly the same thing but better, if they where more mechanically different it wouldn't bother me as much

[main trellis]

Oh btw; dmg is RANDOM with RANDOM interwals invetween the dmg ticks

[hazy vector]

don't have to use it with desperado

[main trellis]

What a joke

[leaden fable]

It's also less likely to cause your team to flee because they think it's a heretic bomber fire lol

[dim moth]

yeah immolators suck

[hazy vector]

kinda same thing about stun grenades

[dim moth]

always used stuns myself

[glacial gyro]

knife is best zealot grenade

[dim moth]

sure but like

I'll just melee them 90% of the time or shoot them

[broken moss]

amazing grenade. before chem nades they were probably the most busted damage nade option in the game

[dim moth]

I always forget to use my knives 💀

[dim moth]

uh...huh

[radiant swift]

do immos even apply burn stacks

[broken moss]

never liked shredders

[glacial gyro]

using your grenade slot to CC for your team? Secure rezzes? Lock down minigames? Why do any of that when I can throw four knives at a gunner, miss every one, and silently hope my team didn't notice

[dim moth]

yeah basically what I use stuns for

I never remember to use the damn knives, but stuns I can keep in my backpocket to have all the stun utility of Chorus without having to gimp my build by equipping it

[main trellis]

Time for some education time my friend

Burn (in fire patch): stacks once; has a tick interval between 0.5s and 1.25s (randomly chosen); does not stagger; deals randomly varying damage: between 43.75 and 131.25 base damage per tick (Damnation/Auric); has very high armor damage modifier against Unyielding, high against Unarmoured, Infested, Maniac, and very low against Carapace; ignores Bulwark shield and Captains/Twins void shield

[broken moss]

and shredders still only apply to one mob. immolation is the gift that keeps on giving

[leaden fable]

Immo grenade is great when you want to tickle a few enemies after they've downed you

[hazy vector]

hitting long ranged knife throws very satisfying

[leaden fable]

Ignoring void shields is actually kinda nice

[broken moss]

that may be, but I've always felt they had value and did a lot of damage

[amber sundial]

why is it random 😭

[leaden fable]

... assuming it's damaging the health bar beneath and not just getting absorbed

[main trellis]

Comparing shredders to immolations is like comparing chocolate to chocolate substitute

[radiant swift]

vet gets a lot of shreddes

[broken moss]

and yet I don't like shredders

[glacial gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/cause-fuck-em-fuck-em-fuck-them-fuck-thats-why-gif-7721281197753821481

[radiant swift]

while zealot doesn't have any nade regen

[main trellis]

I take ya down with me… slowly
Type shit

[broken moss]

always felt they did no damage even to the targets they do hit and the bleed stacks just wear off

[amber sundial]

i like shredders mainly because i use shovel with uncanny so bleed deals quite a bit of dmg

[main trellis]

[dim moth]

20% chance to throw 2 so I can just throw one shredder it duplicates and everything is dead

[main trellis]

You throw 2

[broken moss]

so I gotta throw 2 nades to kill a horde in can normally kill with 1 immolator?

[hazy vector]

we already knew you were a weirdo

[leaden fable]

Yes, and you'll have them both back in like 60 seconds

[broken moss]

y'all saying they do no damage or whatever but I've never been in a situation where they didn't kill hordes

[bronze glade]

faster than that

[radiant swift]

that's the main kicker

[bronze glade]

you get nades back just by doing your job (killing elites/specials)

the 60s regen is just a fallback

in case rng is unlucky

[broken moss]

Regen is Regen. zealot don't have that so it is what it is

[glacial gyro]

Tell that to the lasgun vets in my game spraying poxwalkers

[leaden fable]

I don't think I've ever thrown an immo and not had a teammate wipe the intended targets before it detonates. Either that or we gotta fall back and enemies are no longer standing in it

[broken moss]

but that's also like taking chem nades off the table cuz they can't regen

[bronze glade]

it is what it is lol

[main trellis]

Easy way to buff them (been preaching about it for months);
Make them apply burn DoT + brittle/stagger/single instance of stun perhaps now that we have chem nades for comparison
But ye; burn DoT instead of a flat dmg number and its gonna be peak if not second best nade to use on zealot

[radiant swift]

i'd love for some more burn synergy in the zealot tree too

[broken moss]

I've stated before that they should have a slow effect

[amber sundial]

DoT + brittle would be goated

[broken moss]

the enemy fire bombs do

[main trellis]

Its basically a blessed promethum - its suppose to melt all corruption

[dense hollow]

better solution

nerf riposte to 10% max

[leaden fable]

Make it give a lil gold toughness or corruption clearing

[lapis raft]

you could just make riposte 3s if you wanted to nerf it instead of making riposte completely useless :d

[main trellis]

And make elites almost if not dead already too faster; immolations tickle flak even…

2 slow

[amber sundial]

immolater should block and remove all floor effects of anything its covering tbh

burn away nurgles yucky goop

[dense hollow]

im talking about riposte from zealots talent tree

[main trellis]

Corruption clearing would be nice; holy fire & all

[leaden fable]

This would be really cool

[broken moss]

saw a dude last night with riposte and uncanny on the same weapon with chem dep fully invested and full crit on his stimms. just seems like too much crit

[lapis raft]

ah, why nerf it tho not like zealot is op

[main trellis]

Smokes should too

[dense hollow]

thats the joke

he catches stray nerfs

[broken moss]

oh and crit on the weapon

[leaden fable]

At least the pox gas for sure

[lapis raft]

ah alright ;d

[dense hollow]

while psyker stays winning

[lapis raft]

ngl the grenades on zealot just being choose the least terrible option and then feel bad about it certainly is not great at least

[broken moss]

yea they aren't good for armor but fire generally isn't

even Chem nades aren't amazing at armor

[main trellis]

Its basically either stunstorms all the time or knifes when you use boltguns or flamer

[amber sundial]

fire DoT should ramp up the longer its been applied to an armored target fr fr

roast them alive

[leaden fable]

Yeah it says a lot that zealot has zero ranged support and lackluster blitzes imo

[main trellis]

Great variety

[leaden fable]

Sure your melee is great but that's all you have really

[dense hollow]

we're not in the era where you have to take tax nodes to get stunstorms over knives

may aswell take them

[leaden fable]

Using tknives for a year has me too accustomed to stop lol

I will press g and stare a trapper down with a stun nade in my hand while I get netted

[lapis raft]

stuns on zealot having 300 year delay for no reason when blinders and shredders exist too :d

[bronze glade]

make the immo nade apply up to 30 stacks of burn lmao

[broken moss]

the issue is that the game used to be heavily centered on melee and that's where zealot shined but now other classes do melee about as well in general use case, and with gun scum on the table melee is in the back seat

[main trellis]

Best zealot nade
Also kulis guide on its radius is wrong; its 10m radius
13m if you use LP on bruhpistol

It saved soo many games its ridiculous

[leaden fable]

Yeah ammo economy was the reason melee was good, but on a team with a psyker, desperado scum, and a survivalist vet all your targets are gunned down before they even get to melee

Unless I'm like a mile ahead of the team, which makes me the hated zealot meme

[main trellis]

Its mostly the ready & toss speed

[broken moss]

yea. already missing Vermintide. I'm waiting on the next patch. if they don't do something extreme on scum I'm putting dt away for a while

[leaden fable]

True which is similar to other grenades that need to be drawn first

[dense hollow]

intense competition of the immolation grenade and knives

immolation grenade provides a warm breeze on a beach

[main trellis]

Knifes better cause actualy can make an impact
Inferno is… like cold fires on new years eve; useless

[dense hollow]

knives are fine

[final temple]

After seeing the glory of one shotting 8 crushers at once, I cannot go back to anything but boomstick.

[leaden fable]

At least I can kill a disabler in a timely fashion with the tknives

[dense hollow]

nothing about them changed, but ppl only used knives 100% of the time because of the tree layout

now its either stunstorms or knives

[main trellis]

From worst to best HS nade what a life

[final temple]

it’s the drugs, mate. new mixture made all the difference.

[rare stirrup]

they figured out how to give fentanyl to munitions

its over for the herertics

[leaden fable]

It's also a must have for flamer and still picked often with boltgun just for draw cancel. The ammo economy with it is a big reason I run it

[dense hollow]

yeah, good reasons to run either stun or knife

[final temple]

I prefer immo on zealot. but I am also a big proponent of playing to your own strengths than trying to be numerically superior but failing at realizing it.

[dense hollow]

what is the immolation grenade good at

[final temple]

that said, I run relic/bistol…

[final temple]

giving me inner peace while rezzing or doing a puzzle. that’s it.

[dense hollow]

emotional support is pretty meta

[final temple]

anything that keeps me from malding is S tier

[broken moss]

killing piles of hordes

[bronze glade]

it kills anything short of crushers tbf

it's just that chem nades also does the same thing but better

[final temple]

I still think it would be neat if we could get a node that allows immo to regen corruption

[broken moss]

I've never found them lacking outside of armor but armor is generally supposed to outlast shit like that

yea chem nades are better for sure.

[leaden fable]

Given a dense enough horde it would do a lot of damage if they stood in it

[broken moss]

scum needs a rework. really all there is to it

it's too much

best of everything with hardly a drawback anywhere

[final temple]

in the hands of a competent player. yes.

the rest just gets gangraped.

[broken moss]

we don't make class decisions based on idiots

[winter galleon]

so crit + flak on iag? i find sometimes fail to get crit without it for cheat mode er i mean vultures dodge

[final temple]

we should make class decisions on average performance, otherwise every class has a high skill floor.

[bronze glade]

flak is fine, i prefer unyielding tho

[clever wren]

arbites

[broken moss]

arbites is fun. besides it's tankiness it's really not that op either

[clever wren]

+15% damage reduction & +15% damage on days that end in Y

[dense hollow]

arbites is boring to me

[winter galleon]

i was torn between those two, in psyhkanium testing it was about 4 bullet difference with or without flak and 16 bullet difference with or without unyielding on mauler/beast comparatively, just went flak cuz face more on average then bosses over course of a map feel like

[broken moss]

you make things work so that the most skilled players at the highest difficulty struggle but have balanced options between all classes and weapons, and let difficulty tiers be the thing that gates people

not everyone needs to be playing at auric level. or havoc

[bronze glade]

i mostly take unyielding because i'm racist against bulwarks

[winter galleon]

true fair point

[clever wren]

Bulwark genocide best day of my life

[winter galleon]

might be enough to change my choice tbh

f bulwarks

[dense hollow]

yeah bulwarks are the most threatening elite in the game

[final temple]

no. you adjust that window with the concentration of players to make sure that onboarding isn’t punishing. THEN you squish the differences by tuning difficulty and class capability as you see your playerbase adjust.

[broken moss]

whaaa???

[final temple]

people naturally will get filtered out of higher difficulties based on basic aptitude more so than any particular class. otherwise you end up with ‘op’ and ‘trash’

[broken moss]

I disagree. the game should be balanced around the highest skill ceiling and difficulty level can easily be tuned by the user by simply staying at lower difficulties

if malice is where you need to be on scum, be there

[dense hollow]

i forgot gunners are considered elites in my statement and was just thinking that they're the most threatening elite compared to crushers

[final temple]

that’s why we see FS time and time again seemingly missing the window. it’s hard to match this window while providing meaningful adjustments

[dense hollow]

[broken moss]

I still think crushers worse

bulwarks do literally nothing

[winter galleon]

i feel like balancing around auric is fine, its a good baseline place, and high havoc is fine to be shoehorned into specific builds for most part as only the most dedicated player is chasing it anyways but thats just my opinion, dont crucify me

[hazy vector]

and linger longer afterwards

[limber cradle]

Bulwarks fuck runs is what bulwarks do

[broken moss]

I'm sure I've died to a bulwark at some point but I can't recall when that happened

[dense hollow]

you wont die to the bulwark

[broken moss]

they're annoying

[winter galleon]

you rarely die to bulwark directly but rather to the shit they protect

[hazy vector]

bulwarks only a problem if you don't hav e means to stun them

[dense hollow]

you'll die in the effect they have

[limber cradle]

Bulwarks aren't killing you but they are a force multiplier

[broken moss]

yea ok fair

[bronze glade]

yeah my thing with them is that they're really fucking annoying to fight

[broken moss]

they are annoying and prevent you from doing things

[bronze glade]

esp when 3 or more show up

[amber sundial]

bulwarks shove is hella annoying when theres something else next to them

[broken moss]

to me the most threatening thing in the game is the trapper

[winter galleon]

like yesterday had like 5 bulwarks coming through door at same time as 2 trappers and a burster

[final temple]

the most threatening thing is other players.

[broken moss]

like anything it's only a threat in a chaotic environment but if you get overwhelmed and can't dodge or don't hear it in time it's gg

[broken moss]

yea but that's a constant

[winter galleon]

honestly sound is the most threatening shit, enemies not playing sound effects is killing

[broken moss]

I played dt on my lunch yesterday and no joke, 6 games in a row the entire team 3 man wiped on me in the first fight zone

it was like "baby's first maelstrom" except it happened 6 fucking times in a row

[winter galleon]

i tried taking my 3 friends who never played past damnation straight to maelstrom yesterday

that was a mistake

[broken moss]

idk what you were thinking

[leaden fable]

This sounds like my recent week of playing with randoms lol

[lilac ermine]

Why is mauler 1 shot me in havoc

[winter galleon]

trial by fire, except they died before they reached the fire

[leaden fable]

They've really been ass lately, especially on the event missions

[lilac ermine]

There was bulwark and then mauler club swings out of shield and kills me and he wasnt there before

[amber sundial]

bulwarks simply manifest heretics behind their shield its a completely natural lifecycle for them

[limber cradle]

Bulwark experience

[leaden fable]

And they say tzeentch isn't here on Atoma

[toxic dagger]

Because you have reduced hp and toughness and (some?) enemy melee attacks also deal corruption damage in Havoc. Mauler and crusher overheads will therefore kill most classes outright

[limber cradle]

Tbh

Maulers and crushers cannot possibly telegraph harder

So I am okay with it

Ig it does suck when it comes from behind the iron curtain tho

[lilac ermine]

I was like 90 health havoc so almost full my full is 98

[radiant swift]

me looking up at the crusher overhead after accidentally wasting my dodges

[lilac ermine]

And it 1 shot me not even downed

[leaden fable]

Queue 1 mauler spawning behind you and winding up an overhead with zero audio prompt

[toxic dagger]

Yes I know

This is by design

[limber cradle]

A crusher did this shit last night to 3 of us

[toxic dagger]

It deals a lot of damage and also fully corrupts your hp bar in the same attack

So it kills you instantly

Not downed, killed

[limber cradle]

Silent crushers are funny

[lilac ermine]

Oh who survives it

[radiant swift]

tbf

[lilac ermine]

Arbiter or orgryn?

[broken moss]

I'm more worried about the crusher overhead they conceal behind them that somehow phases through them like they weren't there

[radiant swift]

i'd die too if a pice of concrete hit me that hard

[toxic dagger]

Maybe some Ogryn builds yeah

[leaden fable]

The player that dodges

[limber cradle]

Arb has true grit so they'll survive

Dumb talent

[toxic dagger]

Golden toughness helps immensely because it prevents hp dmg (iirc)

[leaden fable]

Zealot when until death is up, too

[dense hollow]

getting hit by an overhead or sniper while you have piss toughness doesn't leak any damage into your hp

just deplete your toughness bar

unless it changes in havoc 40

[toxic dagger]

I think it doesn't which is why the havoc meta revolved around shout and chorus for so long

[lilac ermine]

I havent played with shout or chorus in so long

[toxic dagger]

But don't quote me on that, I'm not an expert on havoc mechanics

[leaden fable]

I know havoc removes toughness break grace period but idk if gold brings it back

[lilac ermine]

All the vets I play with use exe stance now

[limber cradle]

Tbh I still see VoC vets more

[radiant swift]

favorite ability tbh

I just liked krubers ability though

[vast yoke]

2300 years

[leaden fable]

Screaming a dh off the map

[lilac ermine]

I think desperado hive scum better support then rampage bc they give toughness to whole team

[radiant swift]

it also just gets me going, at least when the shout out is cool sounding

same when I get a "BLOOD FOR THE GOD EMPEROR, SKULLS FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE" on zealot

[lilac ermine]

Zealot is like support class now at least in havoc

[dim moth]

the main reason havoc meta solidified as this was because of early havoc ranged enemies though

these days shout is still good, but I see chorus as a self-fulfilling prophecy

you're only in the dire situations that chorus is useful in because your zealot is gimping their build by having chorus equipped

[radiant swift]

500 buffs to psyker instead

[dim moth]

and isn't contributing to the teams damage so less enemies die and you get overwhelmed more often

[radiant swift]

true

[clever wren]

chorus mentioned

be me, zealot
big E's strongest boy
get artifact that they say will disable every heretic that comes near
use it
it disables every heretic that comes near
it also disables me
mfw

[radiant swift]

and real

[lilac ermine]

I think chorus still better then zealot other abilities

[dim moth]

fury and shroudfield are different flavors of "one shot that one guy and get a passive damage boost after the fact"

[lilac ermine]

So if we need zealot for corruption then chorus is still best to pick

[dim moth]

fury gives a better passive damage boost, and has 2 charges

shroudfield one shots that one guy even harder, and has a shorter cooldown for that one use

[hasty agate]

Yeah because chorus giving your whole ass team 30% more damage and gold toughness AND crowd control is just totally gimping the team.

[dim moth]

additive

its only actually a 30% increase if nobody on the team has any +damage on their build already

it's usually a hell of a lot less

and certainly less than you could personally contribute by using a real ability instead of chorus

[dense hollow]

you could give 100% more damage by running fury

[dim moth]

yeah and of course that's the thing to consider as well

chorus is +30% to your 3 teammates

[clever wren]

130% x3 vs 100% x4
I thought you had a doctorate in damage

[dim moth]

but it costs you 100% of your damage dealt to enable that

and then some because even when you're not using chorus you are actively gimping your damage and ability to do zealot things at all times by not having shroudfield or fury

[clever wren]

Zealot even has to spend a tax point to bring the damage back up almost to baseline

[dim moth]

you can't deal with bosses in the same way fury and shroudfield can, you can't force your way through a dense horde like fury can, you can't deal with crushers or bulwarks like both can

[lilac ermine]

If zealot knows what theyre doing then maybe shroud and fury is better

[leaden fable]

The way I see it chorus exists to help span the time your relic blade is waiting to cool down lol

[dim moth]

chorus is not a useful ability it is what you pick when you know that you are not a useful player

because you want to get carried

[lilac ermine]

Chorus is rlly good with dealing with bosses

[dense hollow]

killing the boss instantly is an option too

[dim moth]

pales in comparison to fury/shroudfield which will both damn near instantly kill (or outright instantly) kill that boss

this is the thing that chorus is bad at

not a selling point

[hasty agate]

Cool story bro

[leaden fable]

Chorus is what you take when you have zero confidence your allies will be able to defend themselves. It's never something you take for yourself

[dim moth]

If I had zero confidence my teammates would be able to defend themselves I wouldn't play zealot I'd play the good support classes

taunt ogryn, bubble psyker, shout veteran

[astral canyon]

who

[lilac ermine]

For anti corruption is zealot with corruption aura or hive scum with box better

[radiant swift]

grendel

[dim moth]

scum box is better since it both cleanses and gives outright immunity for 15 seconds

a good scum will have that box up for the majority of the match

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/okay-got-it-yoshitaka-mine-yakuza-3-ok-gif-10897772160940379499

[lilac ermine]

Will they be better dps then the zealot

[dim moth]

yeah

[amber sundial]

considering they buff the whole team ontop of that corruption resist yea

[lilac ermine]

👍

[dim moth]

especially considering that corruption resist comes with +20% strength and 15% crit, as well as potentially attack speed or cooldown reduction

[clever wren]

When do we get to fight grendyl's mom

[lilac ermine]

I need a box build..

[dim moth]

and unlike zealot's pathetic +30% damage

[lilac ermine]

Do they use the 3rd keystone or 2nd keystone

[dim moth]

that +20% strength is multiplicative with your teams damage boosts

[astral canyon]

it is additive with your team's strength boosts tho

[dim moth]

And they get to play the game alongside using it!

[lilac ermine]

I thought additive was better then multiplicative for percents

[dim moth]

yeah

but strength is rarer than damage

[lilac ermine]

Cant zealots not go the book with corruption aura just use fury and corruption aura

[dim moth]

they could yeah

I kinda assmed we were still talking about chorus xd

[leaden fable]

Yeah you can as of the latest rework

[lilac ermine]

Ive seen some other zealots using fury and corruption aura

[dim moth]

And I will not hesitate to leap at an opportunity to call that particular kettle black

[leaden fable]

Hence seeing far fewer chorus support zealots in havoc

[lilac ermine]

Like as main build not even switching for havoc

[dim moth]

oh yeah that's dmb

[amber sundial]

ngl ive been seeing alot of corruption aura zealots even in pubs the last week

[dim moth]

corruption aura is literally only good in havoc blight spreads

[broken moss]

zealot probably the most invalidated class in the game currently.

which is unfortunate

[winter galleon]

but so much fun

[broken moss]

used to be my main

[radiant swift]

still mine

[winter galleon]

i love fotf or shroudfield into just deleting an elite

[lilac ermine]

I play desperado hive scum and I think we would lose if I went box 😢

[winter galleon]

or even a boss

[leaden fable]

Depends who you ask but for the average player playing with a team of randoms, absolutely

[winter galleon]

but ya def needs some love or everyone else needs tuned down

either or

[zenith pagoda]

Nah zealot is still great

[dim moth]

zealot can definitely make themselves irreplaceable with boss killing for havocs

[lapis raft]

shroudfield on zealot is at least still fun

[broken moss]

not saying it's got nothing, but of all the other classes, scum has overshadowed zealot the most

[dim moth]

that is the one thing zealot does that nobody else can even come close to doing

[winter galleon]

both shroud and fotf are the most satisfying single button presses for me

[dim moth]

2nd best boss damage in the game is still miles behind zealot boss damage

[lilac ermine]

Hive scum kind of deletes bosses too

With needle pistol

[dim moth]

yeah but zealot just outright one shots literally everything but twins

[leaden fable]

Every class deletes bosses now lmao

[dim moth]

and only can't do the same to twins because damage cap

[winter galleon]

eh scum with cd + stim only matches what vet can do with 0 buffs

[broken moss]

yea one shot boss builds and chorus

[lilac ermine]

I dont think psyker can

[winter galleon]

instructions unclear, buff PS again

[lilac ermine]

And vet cant really without kraks up

[dim moth]

chorus is very replaceable by VoC veteran

[radiant swift]

500 BUFFS TO PSYKER

[broken moss]

does it with saw too

faster even

[lilac ermine]

How tho

[broken moss]

what you mean how?

[lilac ermine]

Needle pistol adds 30 stacks in like 5 shots

[broken moss]

it's the same dot but unlike needler, saw actually does damage besides the dot

[leaden fable]

M1 spam surge, melee psyker, proper brain burst spam psyker all do well

[winter galleon]

ps animation cancel thrust combo goes brr as well

[leaden fable]

Deimos stay hitting like a truck

[lilac ermine]

Thats with 9 stamina curio and crit talent with stamina

Also full stacked marksman

[dim moth]

yeah to simulate having reciprocity stacked which you would in-game

[winter galleon]

scum is great but lets not pretend it matches other classes in terms of burst boss damage, its broken in its own way but it needs every buff to compare to what other classes do without any buffs

[dim moth]

deadshot and reciprocity are both +25% stamina

[reef spoke]

Oh yeah what is the stack cap for toxin anyways?

[winter galleon]

real thing is everything needs tuned down but taht will never happen

[dim moth]

cba to proc reciprocity with creature spawner just for a clip

[lilac ermine]

30 I think

[reef spoke]

I know it's pretty high but I'm not certain

[dim moth]

and full stack marksman is piss easy these days

full stacks is the expected for it

[reef spoke]

Oh that's pretty good god damn. Thanks for the info c:

[placid prairie]

Granted I was helping a friend through heresy, but playing orthus offensive on scum, several times I managed to outright kill one of the karnak twins when they both spawn before they could pop shield and disappear leading up to the actual final fight with them, and I still consider that the funniest shit

[dim moth]

It doesn't have burst but boy toxin sure is easy and safe

[lilac ermine]

So every time a boss fights I shoot it 5 times for max stacks

Then use melee to keep stacks up since they drop so fast

[reef spoke]

Oh I didn't see there was a guide. I'll check pins thanks c:

[dim moth]

the karnak extended family

[lilac ermine]

I dont think its in pins

[reef spoke]

"2x damage for maniac" holy shit

[lilac ermine]

Its on the hive scum steam guide by

Kuli

[radiant swift]

it's lovey for special sniping

[broken moss]

it's boss and armor options aren't generally the greatest outside of specific situations but it's still plenty threatening in those situations. just not the "best"

[reef spoke]

I think I found it https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3586590987

[lilac ermine]

Yes

[reef spoke]

If not, I can always just check Steam

[placid prairie]

I mean, it’s 40k, clones aren’t out of the question

[reef spoke]

Ah ok thanks again c:

[reef spoke]

We never see them without helms. It could just be a VERY convincing double UwU

[vocal saffron]

👍

[dim moth]

Oh I've used dclaw in a havoc 40 actually

It was like...okay?

I was playing veteran with it and being able to just helbore/krak crushers with it meant I never had to interact with its downside

has very good and easy horde clear

[astral canyon]

also funny parry

[dim moth]

It can still kill havoc 40 crushers when pressed if there's only a few of them

funny parry do numbers

[lilac ermine]

Will the parry still work on crusher if something hits you before crusher hammer lands

[dim moth]

was built like this

[dim moth]

no :)

[reef spoke]

Only protects vs 1 hit :c

[clever wren]

How are people using it to defend against 40 ragers

[dim moth]

press parry button AGAIN

[leaden fable]

Mash the button lol

[charred bronze]

I am bad at the game and I hate the variability in crusher attacks. The really long wind up overhead that they can retarget while winding up gets me more more often than I'd like. Dodge too early, oh nope, dodge again, why's he still turning toward me? oh shit. Bonk

[dim moth]

it's actually that easy to kill rager swarms provided you have the stamina

[reef spoke]

There's a surprisingly low delay before you can parry again

[clever wren]

Of course
Animations don't restrict how fast you can do things except when they do

[reef spoke]

It's just crushers are bastards like that

[charred bronze]

Taxe special has been revelation for rager/mauler swarms

[dim moth]

p sure taxe heavy attacks and push attack stagger them too

[clever wren]

Considering how bad I am at space marine 2 I probably should not try dclaw

[leaden fable]

Same lol

I do it fine in valheim for some reason

[fallen void]

is the optimal curio setup triple toughness due to scum's squishiness

[leaden fable]

I think the red bait antiparry indicator is what gets me for sm2

[reef spoke]

You can go more glass with stamina

[broken moss]

for melee I go 2 toughness 1 stam

[lost token]

Parrying in darktide shouldn't be seen the same way tbh. They aren't exactly operating on the same execution nor application.

[dim moth]

triple stamina for attack speed

[reef spoke]

A shame the crowbar sucks

[broken moss]

no need to do more stam

[reef spoke]

You can get like 15 stacks of attack speed with it

[broken moss]

no

[astral canyon]

+18% attack speed

[broken moss]

I tested this and my attack speed was the same with 3 Stam curios vs 1

[clever wren]

I guess I just suck at parry games in general. Always doing it too early, or doing it too late because I was trying really hard not to do it too early, or standing around doing nothing because I'm waiting for the enemy to swing

[broken moss]

no DPS change

[dim moth]

ATTACK SPEED

[reef spoke]

Rip

[reef spoke]

Hit FAST

I definitely feel faster on my Rashad with that talent

I wonder if it caps at a certain point

[broken moss]

you want the talent. just more curios with stam doesn't affect it