hivescum-class

[novel oracle]

but one of them moving up to the center of the square up there was a good change

so youre not wasting a point

[limber cradle]

I took one of the toughness nodes

[novel oracle]

on a melee build

[limber cradle]

I also really like the old position of sticky hands

[novel oracle]

i dont think it matters

[limber cradle]

Idk, it made my brain happier

I dont think it matters past that

Functionally

[novel oracle]

having it at the top meant every build could take it
but its now also directly next to where your forced to go for blitzes

so its like whatever
its a 0 pathing investment talent for any build

[mighty belfry]

Honestly. I've grown to really like tox nades on toxin builds

[limber cradle]

I think I'm dropping HCB and Elite damage tbh

I'm sure I'll notice HCB at some point

I don't think I'll notice Elites

I do know everytime I don't have tox blinders I go "damn I wish I had tox blinders"

[novel oracle]

see i have a bit of weird logic with it

most of my builds dont have tox blitz, but still have blinders

[eternal quail]

love me blinders

[novel oracle]

cuz blinders are dope
most of what tox blinders do is just an aoe clear of trash

[limber cradle]

Tbh

Yk what I like tox blinders for?

Is when you throw a fucking blinder at a bulwark and that fat bastard doesn't open up

[novel oracle]

you could spend a lot to kill non ogryn elites but itd take a hot minute to get em all back

but i am goblin brained

the main situation it solves is something i dont want to be solved as a melee scum

[mighty belfry]

Blinders are really inconsistent against bulwarks :(

[limber cradle]

Tbh I don't mind just chucking the things, I'll be killing shit at close range anyway

[novel oracle]

random trash fucking spike your damage cuz of hyper violence

oh no a poxwalker got in front of my swing and made that swing deal like 40% more damage cuz of the overkill! oh no!

[limber cradle]

I'll agree that I like them less on melee builds

But I love tox blinders on desp builds

[novel oracle]

im never even branching over there on desp lmao

[limber cradle]

You run things i do not run on desp tbh

Like i simply do not care for TDR on reload

I can absolutely find the points to get over there personally

[novel oracle]

the tdr on reload is so funny cuz it literally is a stopgap for the moment you need to stop shooting for vultures dodge

and with speedload its over before you could get hurt too bad if you did get hit

[limber cradle]

Nah I can defo see the logic

[bronze glade]

I like it on DB but that's about it lol

[mighty belfry]

Tdr on reload is stupid on double barrel tbh

[novel oracle]

when you unload tho, youll empty the mag so fast the tdr was up for almost the full duration too

so its basically just an additional 25% tdr

making any time you miraculously do get hit
do jack shit to you

[limber cradle]

I dont run swift endurance either

I tbh do not know why you run that

[bronze glade]

Swift endurance is peak tho

[limber cradle]

I am shooting everything

[bronze glade]

Good when you need to melee

[novel oracle]

14% attack speed on shivs during the times i am forced into melee

the single best talent for compensating your lack of melee prowess

[bronze glade]

It's a light investment and great value

[novel oracle]

im still often meleeing crushers and bosses aggroed into me

[limber cradle]

What curios do you run again?

[novel oracle]

+3 stam and 2x toughness

[limber cradle]

Hm

Idk, tbh I normally just let chem side dip deal with it

[novel oracle]

combine is tempting me with trying 3x stamina

on melee builds

[bronze glade]

It's peak

Though idk if it's worth outside of shivs

[limber cradle]

Is 14 percent AS really noticeable?

[bronze glade]

Ive definitely run into survivability issues with 3 stam on melee weapons other than shivs and taxe

[bronze glade]

Yeah I mean 10 percent on vet makes Rashad usable

[novel oracle]

thats almost 75% of fury of the faithful/rampages attack speed buff

[bronze glade]

14 percent is pretty big

[novel oracle]

thats MORE than adrenalines buff

[limber cradle]

I guess

[drifting heron]

14% is pretty good

[limber cradle]

Ill try it, see how i feel about it

[novel oracle]

if you use another weapon with a better stamina profile, itll be 20%

[mighty belfry]

It's also really tricky to run in Havoc from my experience

[drifting heron]

Its 40% more than TFD, Faithful Frenzy, and Lightning Speed

[limber cradle]

Tbf I do not play zealot

[novel oracle]

crowbar saw and heavy sword all have 4 stamina base iirc instead of 1 like shiv and taxe

[bronze glade]

Attack speed my beloved

[limber cradle]

Crowbar, Saw, and HSword all kinda feel bad as back up melees ime

[mighty belfry]

You'd be surprised how much you notice having that little bit less toughness

[novel oracle]

theres some argument for crowbar with can opener

[limber cradle]

I'm sure but uh

Shivs go brrrt

[novel oracle]

yeah thats kinda my thoughts
at least in a havoc perspective
youre either all or nothing anyway

[drifting heron]

Swift Endurance is also more fun than generic attack speed

[limber cradle]

Feels like it anyway

[limber cradle]

Thats why I don't like it

My brain doesn't like conditionals like that

[novel oracle]

they tried something different than a 10% node on ogryn

[drifting heron]

It gives the rampage cooldown more weight

[novel oracle]

and the result was just the same thing but outright better

[drifting heron]

Lets you feel yourself slow down

[mighty belfry]

The conditional often guarantees more attack speed than any other node usually tho

[novel oracle]

the more i play the more i am very much reconsidering my opinion of the stamina dodge talent

[limber cradle]

My brain just hates conditionals tbh

[bronze glade]

Yeah it's definitely dangerous. I end up taking the Stam on dodge node to make up for it

[limber cradle]

I only like dodge cause of how often you'll crit with some weapons on this class

[drifting heron]

Yeah regained posture is pretty sweet

Lets you push spam more without locking out on a trash swing and keep SE up more

[bronze glade]

tbh it's not even that conditional, you're often on max or close to max stam

[novel oracle]

heavily mitigates the downside of rampage ending, and also keeps you topped up for attack speed on weapons like taxe

[bronze glade]

because HIV stam econ is so damn good

[mighty belfry]

Yeah like, gunners are fine since you have resistance to them so they don't do as much to hurt it.

[limber cradle]

I will agree with that

[vocal saffron]

yo Ma Ma .

[bronze glade]

yeah love it

[drifting heron]

We cannot use that acronym please

[mighty belfry]

However. Fodder guns?

[bronze glade]

you're going to love my HIV character name...

[drifting heron]

What is it

[bronze glade]

it's hivescum

with select capitalization

[mighty belfry]

Good God they will 100% punish you for daring to not run toughness curios lmao

[low harbor]

Just abbreviate hive scum as hvs

[limber cradle]

Idk how people do 9 stamina tbh

[novel oracle]

just fucking say scum

[vocal saffron]

hive grum

hive grummz

[low harbor]

Noe

Scum is an insult

[mighty belfry]

By being absolutely locked the fuck in

[novel oracle]

it is literally
in their name

[bronze glade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1447448646168739880/31F6591.MP4?ex=6942ddd9&is=69418c59&hm=0746ba817f7c94fe548b7a82228db6e2fb1dc2ddf357e682a0863bc2fba607bc&

killing everything

before it kills you

[versed viper]

Love me 20% critical chance at all times sah

[bronze glade]

though admittedly quite challenging with some weapons lol

[novel oracle]

also if i end up actually going 3x 3 stam curios
regained posture is % based
so
lol

[mighty belfry]

Understand that that extra stamina also means more toughness regen

[novel oracle]

what

[versed viper]

Okay trying this now

[mighty belfry]

Because more stamina means more attack speed. More attack speed means more Precision Violence proccing

[novel oracle]

the attack speed to swing faster for precision

yeah

[bronze glade]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a090743a-94b8-4885-a17a-15e9637e554d/dreg-rager

[limber cradle]

I guess man, I like having 187 toughness tho

[bronze glade]

the grandfather protects!

[versed viper]

I'mma be real though, Adrenaline is a mid keystone

[mighty belfry]

So there's genuine reason to going full stamina but you have to be engaged at all times in close range.

[novel oracle]

it isnt

[low harbor]

I legit thought u went through the same mental gymnastics that prompted Mr E to say having less toughness is better because this makes coherency TGH regen have more value in getting full toughness back faster

[novel oracle]

chem dep is

[versed viper]

When you could take the Chemical Dependency and have 20% crit chance at all times

[drifting heron]

And nerf your stim to do it

[round ermine]

Anyone have a build for the crowbar ?

[limber cradle]

Chem Dep is not my jam I don't even think it's reasonable for me to have an opinion on it

[mighty belfry]

Path, I can make some gaslight tier takes but I ain't that bad

[versed viper]

I don't need a good stim when a single knife swipe crits and kills everything in one hit

[novel oracle]

25% damage is significantly more impactful when you consider its multiplicitive with strength which rampage gives a fuck ton of

[drifting heron]

Frenzy is damage that stacks multiplicatively with Rampage's strength and attack speed, which is the final multiplicative DPS buff

[round ermine]

Trying to do its mastery but I find it lacklustre

[versed viper]

25% of a one shot is still a one shot

[rugged fox]

chem dihpendency

[novel oracle]

and you can use hyper violence to do what hyper crit does without critting

[limber cradle]

I like hypercrit specifically on shivs and almost nothing else tbh

[novel oracle]

it only works on human enemies though

hyper violence works on anything, and doesnt need a crit

[drifting heron]

That crit will kill something anyway

[novel oracle]

whoops was that 5 gunners in one light attack

[drifting heron]

And hyper violence weapons are more fun

Except heavy sword

I hate the heavy sword movesets

[mighty belfry]

Speaking of gaslight tier takes, I wanna try and make a stimm supply build that works with hv, and without pickpocket

Temu rampage scum

[versed viper]

The heavy sword wouldn't suck so much ass if it didn't gimp your movement speed

[drifting heron]

Its a good weapon

I just hate the movesets

[novel oracle]

thats a new take ive never heard before

[drifting heron]

You need a special or cancel loop on every mk

[versed viper]

Have you not noticed that the heavy sword slows you down while attacking with it?

[drifting heron]

90% of weapons do that

[astral sundial]

Did they make mortis harder?

[novel oracle]

yeah just like
most weapons

in the game

[versed viper]

Whoa dude leave some of the sarcasm for the rest of us

[novel oracle]

but im being serious

most weapons literally do that

[oblique basin]

Having a hard time deciding what to use on my chem build, should I use chem nades with this skill and all its augments

OR

Should I go black out nades with 3 chem attacks on blitz? by using this combo I'm not able to use the 7 chem stacks on the box

[versed viper]

Heavy sword feels especially ass though

[drifting heron]

I think its just like

Knife

and Tac axe

[novel oracle]

they have movement speed curves

[drifting heron]

That don't

and shivs I guess

[mighty belfry]

I would strongly suggest not using the trap. Because the aoe is just pitiful for what it's intended to do

[novel oracle]

knives/shivs
tac axe
devils claw
im not entirely sure but maybe force swords?

[mighty belfry]

It seriously needs a range buff

[oblique basin]

Ohhh nice, then blackout it is

[hasty agate]

I disagree that dependency is a “mid” keystone. 20% crit chance is equivalent to 4 auras by itself. Plus 20% tdr with 50% toughness replenishment on stim is like…fucking awesome. AND then 40% cdr. Totally not mid

[bronze glade]

I think it's not horrible

Tbh

[novel oracle]

and even then knives/shivs are the ones that have increase sprint speed during it
the others just allow you to sprint while holding the heavy, you still wont be going full speed

[versed viper]

Stacked its 20% crit chance, 20% toughness reduction, and 20% CDR, with a toughness regen on any stim you use. Its like having a perma stim.

[versed viper]

Bro I am aware that all weapons have a slowdown associated with it. The heavy sword just feels especially ass

[mighty belfry]

It's strong if you can actually hit something. But it's tied to having your supply up very often, meaning you have to gimp your stimm to do that and if you don't do that, it's just weirdly tricky to make it work because the radius just isn't there for it

[low harbor]

20% crit chance is not bad but it’s not worth 3 points when the other 2 points don’t rly do much

[novel oracle]

you can use nimble to get around that
use dodges for movement

[novel oracle]

and all the points it takes to get there you may not even care about

[mighty belfry]

There's just other options that will do you better on the tree in a vast majority of cases

[low harbor]

Yea

[drifting heron]

40% cdr, which despite being decent, doesn't matter much for 2/3 abilities

[low harbor]

I think dependency is only worth for 2 points
1 point keystone
1 point crit chance

4 stack upgrade not worth

[novel oracle]

the cdr is okay for a melee build but like
its only working during your downtime
yknow what else also works during down time
a cdr stim

that you can have between each ability

[limber cradle]

4 stack feels like a downgrade to me

[novel oracle]

and also a keystone that does more for you in and out of your ability at the same time

[versed viper]

I mean a single talent point for 5% extra crit and CDR is arguably worth

[low harbor]

And dependency, being cooldown rate, doesn’t matter that much for both desperado/rampage where u can usually cover their downtime with just a CD rate spec stim (15 points, 44s recharge)

[novel oracle]

you omega gimp your stim to do it though

[drifting heron]

Not enough CDR to matter

[hasty agate]

I mean if it’s 100% dedicated melee build, of course go adrenaline. But dependency is so far from “mid” it’s unreal.

[mighty belfry]

You have to consider the time change to do that

[low harbor]

Nah you’re spending 1 whole talent point for a single weapon perk’s value, that’s called gaslighting yourself

[mighty belfry]

60s is actually not that forgiving if you're not constantly engaged

[versed viper]

Bro please stop using gaslighting wrong

[limber cradle]

Why are you gaslighting him

[versed viper]

"Bro likes pumpkin he's gaslighting himself" its called a preference you SCUM

[novel oracle]

at that point youre throwing away a useful stim for a crumb of stats

[low harbor]

How’re you reaching the conclusion that 1 talent point for 5% crit chance and 10% cooldown regen (for 2 abilities that can easily have CD mitigate via stim) is worth it

[novel oracle]

you already have a lot of crit chance
baseline

[low harbor]

Without gaslighting urself

Crazy

[versed viper]

Maybe I don't care about my stim and just want the full stat uptime

[novel oracle]

10% base
5% from stat node above swift
20% from dodge

[versed viper]

Because more crit = more fun

[novel oracle]

you have 30% reliably already

[mighty belfry]

B-b-but why.

[novel oracle]

not even taking into account weapons inherent crit like shivs at 12.5%

or dual autos at 5%

or taxe at 12%

[lost bear]

Tbf in this case it's probably yasslighting

[lapis raft]

1 point for 5% crit, 5% tdr and 10% cdr is pretty good, not gonna pretend it isnt

[versed viper]

I want 100%

[novel oracle]

100% isnt possible without a stim

[low harbor]

I’m not online enough to know what that means and I’m not sure if I want to

[mighty belfry]

You can just take the vultrapene stimm and ur fine

[versed viper]

Fuck you I'm crackasaurus sex and you can't stop me

My body is overloaded with so much shit-tier stim that I can't feel pain

[lost bear]

Portmanteau of yasss queen + gaslighting

[low harbor]

Btw I’ve grinded out vet guide so much over the past week that I’m onto basically final steps now

[novel oracle]

chem dep at 4 stacks means if your stim is 45s then you wont be able to stack it without slaying TF out all of the time

its just not realistic, or worth it, to stack that much crit

[versed viper]

So don't have a 45 second stim, dumbaaaaaass

[novel oracle]

how else are you gonna get the crit from the stim

[versed viper]

You're afraid of peak performance

My blood is 90% crack

[low harbor]

This doesn’t give u crit chance tho

[mighty belfry]

Omg it's happening

[versed viper]

No it gives me track marks

[hasty agate]

are saying it’s hard to stack dependency with a 45s stim? Did I read that right???

[lost bear]

Microdosing

[lapis raft]

you can full stack chem dep with 45s stimm just fine

[novel oracle]

yeah that really is just making your stim useless

[lapis raft]

without killing anything at all

[low harbor]

The stim itself isn’t giving u crit chance while it’s running

[bronze glade]

Sacrificing your stimm to get that sweet sweet five percent more crit

[versed viper]

"b-b-b-buh my s-s-s-stim"
You're pathetic tbh true crack fiends buy the cheapest shit they can find and freebase it in hotel bathrooms

[ornate sorrel]

there's an interesting build which uses that 15s cd to have your stimm supply up constantly with booby trap

[hasty agate]

Bro I have ZERO issues stacking dependency with a fucking 75s cooldown stim. What the actual fuck do you mean?

[low harbor]

I have grinded out
all intro sections (with updated videos for illustration)
all vet talent sections (updated to new format)
all vet melee weapons (updated to new format)
all vet ranged weapons (updated to new format)
all curios (updated to new format)

[lapis raft]

you have 120s to reset the stacks at full

[mighty belfry]

Sir. A smidgen of crit chance. My wife and kids left me and I have nothing to my name. Please help.

[novel oracle]

if you have the 4 stack version you NEED sample collector
the stim doesnt recharge during the 15s its active, so the time between using a 45s cooldown stim is 60s

[drifting heron]

We aren't run of the mill dollar store parking lot crack fiends
We're the real shit
Gang fixers who can afford the good shit

[versed viper]

"Bro you NEED the talent you're already taking to access the keystone bro!"

[bronze glade]

inject more drugs!

[versed viper]

https://tenor.com/view/point-nicolas-cage-gif-3495159329507667091

[novel oracle]

you need to be slaying out during that 45s window (not when your stim is active) to create a wide enough window to use another stim in a realistic situation

[astral sundial]

I might actually take shivs on my meele build

they feel MUCH smoother than the saw

[versed viper]

If you don't think every crackhead build looks like this you are on more drugs than my character

[low harbor]

This is insane

[mighty belfry]

Ough

[versed viper]

EWWW DEELETE THAT

[low harbor]

I don’t even have proper vocabulary to describe how peak this is

[hasty agate]

And sample collector is an immensely powerful talent that SHOULD be in just about every scum build imaginable.

[novel oracle]

i dont use it in any of mine because it costs too many points better spent elsewhere in those builds

[limber cradle]

Buddy a crackhead isn't getting a hotel room for that

[mighty belfry]

Debatable.

[novel oracle]

so i just tweak my stim accordingly

[versed viper]

You kick down the door with your drug-fueled powers, dumbass

[versed viper]

Yeah I bet you tweak

[glacial gyro]

unhinged

[mighty belfry]

Melee scum don't need it since all you really wanna do with your stimm is leave it for Rampage cooldown for the CDR.

[versed viper]

But not as hard as I do

[drifting heron]

What

All 3 of those nodes are good

[hasty agate]

Well, right now I think a lot of people spend talent points in shit that really is not that necessary so that doesn’t surprise me.

[drifting heron]

and I will not be taking Loose Formation

[limber cradle]

Man, do you think there's any logic to running a non CD stimm with desp?

[versed viper]

To be fair its just nice to have a class where all the options are pretty good

[novel oracle]

with vultures mark yeah

[drifting heron]

Fine does this make you happier

[mighty belfry]

That being said, running Chem build like that without sample collector

That makes me cry.

[novel oracle]

with pure cdr youll have your stim between each ability use of desperado or rampage, so you always get full value out of your stim every time you use it, and itll always be ready when you need it, so you can get back into your big damage mode faster every time

[versed viper]

You better be using the blind grenades with that

[novel oracle]

no sample collector required

[limber cradle]

I find CD stimm wildly boring and want my top right bottom left movement stimm

[versed viper]

Bro what the FUCK is that

[novel oracle]

it is boring
maybe they shoulda made sample collector and chem dep and most of the bottom right tree also not boring too

[limber cradle]

What the fuck is this

[glacial gyro]

UNHINGED

[versed viper]

Why are you taking 3 chem applications on ROCKET LAUNCHER

[mighty belfry]

D20 ah top of the tree build

[versed viper]

ARE YOU ACTUALLY HIGH FR

[hasty agate]

Not required but made even better with sample collector

[drifting heron]

YES

[limber cradle]

Tbh a metric fuckton of the bottom right tree is arb tier "just works" talents

[versed viper]

"Bro I made my nuclear bomb inflict a tickle debuff"

[novel oracle]

not really
sample collector does nothing when its active, and you dont need a cdr stim when your ability is ready/in use

[drifting heron]

People cannot spot bait builds when they see them anymore

Darktide has fallen

[mighty belfry]

I have never been in a situation where I don't have cdr stimm after rampage

[novel oracle]

the position and structure also fucking sucks

[glacial gyro]

its brilliant, anything that lives will be finished off by the toxin, this is 200,000 IQ shit you wouldn't understand

[mighty belfry]

That just doesn't happen with how long rampage goes for lol

[hasty agate]

Unless you want to live in desperado like I do (when I play ranged)

[limber cradle]

Please tell them to stop making coherency talents malice playtester man

[versed viper]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-true-true-thats-correct-thats-right-pointing-gif-15746080

[novel oracle]

i do that without any stims either
its called vultures mark

[bronze glade]

people were giving me shit yesterday for saying iron will is mandatory

[mighty belfry]

Honestly. I can see this cooking with sample collector

[novel oracle]

we told them what if it was a coherency radius + some of vets born leader
their response?
50% -> 75%

[wispy belfry]

is there any resource compiled yet on what the needle pistol actually interacts with yet?

[glacial gyro]

Press rocket button, recieve stimm, its 100% brilliant

[limber cradle]

Please bring a lead pipe to the negotiating table next time

[drifting heron]

Is this better

[mighty belfry]

Lamp with no shade ah build

[hasty agate]

Well I don’t run vultures on mine so…and I get 4 rockets on the way, and 20% tdr that’s up all the time. And 20% crit chance instead of 15% for 1 point. Sooo unless vultures dodge is what you’re after thennnn I understand. Buuutttt if you don’t there’s benefit there to.

[glacial gyro]

like I know its ragebait

but its working

[drifting heron]

Pretend this is upside down, its a candelabra

[novel oracle]

vultures dodge is what im referring to
ranged and melee immunity regardless of ability is kinda fuckin dumb

[drifting heron]

also true

Saw that thing

Multi hundred foot line

Kept walking

Pop culture museum was cool

[glacial gyro]

Well, since it keys off of a ranged crit, its only really useful with desperado

[novel oracle]

you could take it with crate, but why would you tbh

[mighty belfry]

For the occasions where you want to play chemist scum but not with a needle pistol

Which

[novel oracle]

desperado with vultures mark then acts as an instant reload (perfect for blaze away), free rezzes while being shot at, instant full toughness, massive speed boost, generating ammo from thin air if you somehow didnt proc pickpocket

[mighty belfry]

Isn't ideal but I can see that being fun

[novel oracle]

rather than the infinite ammo/immune to ranged it typically is used for

oh and the rending/damage subnode

also
i want sample collector really easy to grab, and have it changed be 50% stim cdr for 3s on elite kill
then chem dep changed to be quite a high amount of stim cdr per stack instead of ability cooldown reduction, with the subnodes changed to give a buff and a nerf to the player with each stack, with the balance between the two making the buff worthwhile but the nerf noticable and impactful

[eternal quail]

jittery is fun

[low harbor]

Wdym not ideal the blackouts are insane with lethal prox + tox

[drifting heron]

Chemical Dependency
Look inside
No widthdrawl symptoms

[hasty agate]

Sample collector works in any scum build as long as you release your grasp on crutch nodes….as hard to hear as that may be. It is true.

[drifting heron]

What if I want to Hurt People

Instead of Hurt Myself

[mighty belfry]

That specific case, probably wouldn't apply since it can't run vultures dodge all that effectively

That being said

[novel oracle]

Crutch nodes such as
Damage
More damage
Strength and cleave
Damage
Cleave

[mighty belfry]

Tox black outs with bistol are in fact kinda goated actually

And really fun

[versed viper]

The pistol with the full auto mod is goated

[hasty agate]

I said what I said. It’s up to you to decide what your own crutches are.

[plucky nymph]

whoever left our havoc 40 in the first 1 minute, we beat it (pox gas blight final toll carapce seed)

😠

[novel oracle]

Sorry that was me

[woeful hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1272804331497979935/1450700850132418651/Kill_All_Smykers.gif

[drifting heron]

Perfect

This is becoming my most used gif

Long may it reign

[low harbor]

This is so peak wtf

[plucky nymph]

wat u roll on that dub barrel

[woeful hill]

reload and deathspiutter

[plucky nymph]

same fsho

[limber cradle]

Genuinely ive seen so many smykers lately that shit is catharsis

[novel oracle]

+50% blast radius
+100% knockback

[woeful hill]

I just wanna parry with Dclaw

but no

psykers...

[limber cradle]

We dump defenses on crowbar right

[plucky nymph]

i just ran dclaw in that trio i love that SHYTE

[mighty belfry]

Making scrier's gaze feed into smite was the worst fucking thing Fatshark has done yet honestly

[plucky nymph]

red sword captain begone

[versed viper]

Why doesn't Orgyn have a blitz where they just throw an explosive barrel at every Smyker?

[novel oracle]

Yea

[limber cradle]

Thank god, appreciate it

[limber cradle]

Honestly? Yeah.

Actually, does CBar secondary proc Opportunist with Can Opener?

I might try this thing as a dedicated crusher remover

[plucky nymph]

u can smite super hard without it idk why more ppl dont, its still like hella long smite plus u get bubble. if i had to turn my brain off more id just do that. barrel me plz

[low harbor]

All enemies (except mutants and bosses) are considered heavy staggered if struck by crowbar beak heavy atk

[limber cradle]

Fuckin muties

[limber cradle]

Thank you

[low harbor]

This also enables cheap shots

For 15% more damage

[limber cradle]

Im kinda just looking at it as a secondary for desp rn tbh

Idk if running cheap shots would be beneficial

Unironically one of my least favorite things in this entire game is the dumb holders we have to have on weapons for the little cosmetic baubles

[round ermine]

You guys have a build for crowbar?

Trying it, even though I can’t see my damage pretty sure it’s shit

[fast gust]

Run Ovenproof or powerDI scoreboards

You'll see it ain't that bad

[limber cradle]

Actually

Insane thought

Crowbar secondary for PF Macs with Cheap Shots

[low harbor]

what's "PF macs"

[limber cradle]

Uhhh

Autopistols?

I think is their real name

And Pinning Fire

The not .45s

[hasty agate]

When you put 50% cleave on the crowbar, what is that actually doing for its cleave? In terms of how many targets can take damage from the swing.

[low harbor]

meh not worth

[young herald]

macs is short for mac-10, a RL gun that looks very similar to the dual autopistols

[limber cradle]

I like pathing into HCB anyway

I don't really love blaze away tbh

[novel oracle]

whats your roll on this

[limber cradle]

Does can opener on the crowbar apply twice on special cause its two seperate instance of hit?

[low harbor]

idk didn't check

I been updating guide & haven't bothered to add hvs weapons into it

[limber cradle]

I mean logically it should right

It has 2 instances of damage in the beak hit

[low harbor]

well

[hasty agate]

Not wrong

[low harbor]

chainaxe' saw rip atks

have multiple ticks of dmg too

guess how many stacks get applied with thunderous

[limber cradle]

I imagine with the way you're framing that, one

[low harbor]

up to 4, cuz it's 1 atk instance (thunderous IV is 4 stacks per atk/push)

[limber cradle]

How would I even test this

[hasty agate]

You would think there’d be a mod to show debuffs

[young herald]

max fire rate, but the dump stat is damage, unfortunately

[limber cradle]

Idk man

[glacial gyro]

There is

[limber cradle]

Macs come in .45

Id say your dump stat is stability

[novel oracle]

attack a crusher with the same light attack 5 times

then do a rev attack and then do that same light attack

making sure to have no conditional damage talents/blessings

you should be able to see how much brittleness its applying by comparing it to the control of just the same attack each time

[limber cradle]

Fwiw

I mean testing to see if the beak attack on Crowbar applies 2 stacks of can opener because its 2 instances of damage

But i imagine its the same concept

[novel oracle]

ok i have put it off for long enough

im making chainaxe scum

maybe only 1 game then back to grinding the warframe update

[limber cradle]

Game stuttered once time to restart

[mighty belfry]

Guys

I am about to use

Needle pistol

Without pickpocket 🤯

[young herald]

you misspelled "best scum"

[jagged radish]

[sturdy linden]

Its ammo efficiency is good enough

I rarely bother to get pickpocket on it

[loud herald]

hi nerds

hope yall are doin well

[mighty belfry]

i swear to god

[spice cloud]

Pickpocket is too much point tax for melee builds and not really necessary with needle pistol

[mighty belfry]

the stimm supply bug is to this game what the worm bug is to helldivers 2

keep saying it's fixed

AND IT'S A LIE

[loud herald]

what's the stimm supply bug

am dum

[mighty belfry]

sometimes, the game just will not let you put down your stimm supply

and it'll just keep the box there in your hands until you press it again to put it down but ofc

[loud herald]

wtf lol

[mighty belfry]

that split moment of being defenseless in this game can very much get you killed

[loud herald]

yep

that's shit

[mighty belfry]

and it just did

[loud herald]

gg fatshort

[glacial gyro]

that bug has caused me to swear off stimm supply

[fast gust]

allegedly fixed

[mighty belfry]

i really like stimm supply but holy shit

[fast gust]

Not fixed

[mighty belfry]

it's been like

twice that they've said it's fixed and it isn't

[novel oracle]

guys hive scum might be a little too OP

[loud herald]

[mighty belfry]

is that

hive scum with

...

[loud herald]

seems so

lol

[mighty belfry]

oh my god

[fast gust]

Scummed relic

[loud herald]

yoinked

[glacial gyro]

scum with relic blade would actually be busted

[loud herald]

that'd be crazy lol

[worn gull]

So uh, I just booted up the game for a pre bed run and why do I have near 0 stim crate cooldown

[sturdy linden]

I feel like it happens when the spot you'd put it down is overlapping with someone else's enemy melee slot

Or your own

Because you move a little bit and its business as usual

[broken moss]

@novel oracle someone should warn people about that opening scene

shit hit hard

[novel oracle]

of what

e33?

[broken moss]

had no idea what was about to happen to that chick

[novel oracle]

yeah that shit comes swinging like a sledgehammer

are you invested in the plot yet or what

[broken moss]

i made it to the fat light guy

this is going to get daily attention

[novel oracle]

fat light guy?

esquie?

[broken moss]

no name yet

dude needs me to bring him a flammable light source or something

[novel oracle]

oh oh oh

[broken moss]

fought a boss, bunch of smaller enemies

[novel oracle]

yeah now i know who youre talking about

[broken moss]

boss hit like a truck. took a few tries but i got a perfect victory on it.

had no idea the game would be as dark and depressing as it is

not in a bad way i just thought it would be more lively. comical

frankly why i avoided it lol

[novel oracle]

i mean it does have moments like that

[limber cradle]

God, the single largest selling point of Vraks IAG is saving a talent point on sticky hands

[glacial gyro]

what is e33

[limber cradle]

Expedition 33

[glacial gyro]

I only know about it because rightoids were crying it was woke until it won an award and suddenly it wasn't woke any more

No I know that, I mean like... What kind of game is it

[limber cradle]

I know nothing about it except what people have told me in the last 3 days trying to convince me its actually good

[novel oracle]

its a narrative driven turn based rpg with real-time elements

[icy scaffold]

Turn based rpg with the paper Mario mechanics so you can parry attacks and whatnot. Pretty good story and great characters, you can make some really broken builds too.

[glacial gyro]

and all my interest just bled away, good to know

[novel oracle]

did you ever play sekiro?

[glacial gyro]

yes

[novel oracle]

this scratched that itch

im not even shitting you

[glacial gyro]

so is it turn based or is it sekiro

[novel oracle]

yes

[fast gust]

Cole you aren't convincing a turn based disliker

[icy scaffold]

Turn based, play on expert so you have to dodge/parry every enemy attack so you don’t die

[fast gust]

[novel oracle]

enemy attacks during their turn will physically swing at your character
you can dodge them or parry them

parrying all hits in an attack will do a high damage riposte

[glacial gyro]

so its super mario rpg

[icy scaffold]

Yes

[glacial gyro]

I will watch a playthrough maybe

[icy scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/clair-obscur-expedition-33-parry-simon-boss-gif-14924605157768413908

[glacial gyro]

what in the final fantasy

[icy scaffold]

Funny super boss goes brrrrt

If you fail to parry him you’re probably dead

[novel oracle]

well i wouldnt have posted that boss as its a massive spoiler

but yeah

and no not probably

you are dead

[icy scaffold]

It’s not really a spoiler since it’s missing all the context

[novel oracle]

he will set your hp to 1 without consuming a turn if it isnt at 1

so its literally
dont get hit ever

that boss is harder than isshin 100%

especially since the parry windows are significantly tighter

[icy scaffold]

Have you tried the new version of him yet?

[novel oracle]

i havent yet

[icy scaffold]

It’s peak bullshit

[mighty belfry]

alright

stimm supply with max speed and cdr

not half bad at all

[chrome jackal]

Very nice.
Let's see Paul Allen's ||Simon, The Divergent Star||

[novel oracle]

i think the dualliste fight is the best example of what its like without going too crazy into the endgame, or just not showing enough by showing minor enemies

https://youtu.be/h4h9mpeAiYk?si=Bxk5M8ODLJ_jPhx-&t=176

[chrome jackal]

what blessings does dualliste have on his long dual shivs

[novel oracle]

precog and riposte

[chrome jackal]

I don't see his ass dodging

[novel oracle]

he is stupid

[chrome jackal]

3 wounds build

[glacial gyro]

I don't know how to say this without being hurtful but I just don't like turn based combat, no amount of quicktime events sprinkled on top will do it. I'm sorry.

[jaunty coral]

anyone got a good melee focused cleaver build?

h40 viable if possible

[icy scaffold]

Thats fine, it was worth a shot

[novel oracle]

i guess
you could just play 100% sekiro mode and build entirely into parries and parry damage and just skip every turn

i found a boss fight of that sooner than a normal one

thats a legit way to play

[novel oracle]

hell thats how i beat this boss

i just banked 100% into parries and just played sekiro

[glacial gyro]

I just... I think its very telling that over the years turn based combat has done its best to incorporate stuff that makes it less like turn based combat.

[novel oracle]

theres more innovations in the actual turn based part than just the real time stuff

[grand jewel]

baldurs gate combat is entirely turn based

still fantastic game

[icy scaffold]

There’s not a whole lot to innovate with turn based, some games try different things whether it be the parries or other mechanics. It’s just a good system that does good work.

[novel oracle]

the fact that its been around this long says a lot

[glacial gyro]

OK I will say, I'm not entirely opposed to turn based stuff. Tactical turn based combat, where you have a map and you position things, that is engaging to me because there are strategic elements.

[novel oracle]

metaphor last year nearly won GOTY and its much more of a traditional rpg

[limber cradle]

I like turn based stuff but not turn based stuff in the style of E33 tbh

Like i love xcom

[icy scaffold]

One of my favorites is still probably Chained Echoes, they did away with conserving resources so you can go ham in every battle (you recover fully after every fight)

Also it has turn based mecha combat

[novel oracle]

each character has their own mechanic that you literally buildcraft around, and these extra effects you can add to characters
like one of the bosses in the free update i beat i used a build that worked by building his mechanic up to max, avoided losing it by not fucking up, then doing attacks specifically with high amounts of hits with various effects that increases damage the more hits a single skill did, along with various other buffs that only happened by sacrificing other things (literally spending the entire fight at 1 hp with only 1 party member did a lot for me)

[glacial gyro]

Now I am obviously biased but I feel like turn based combat still exists pretty much as tradition more than anything. Its where JRPGs started, and it has a long and storied history, but lets be honest, when people talk about games like Chrono Trigger they aren't gushing over the combat system, they praise the characters, story, world design, etc. Which is all very valid. The combat system is there to fill a function.

[novel oracle]

i mean i fell out of rpgs when i grew up
id played pokemon, chrono trigger, earthbound, etc when i was younger

then i stopped cuz i didnt find them as fun anymore

[grand jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/damage-thats-a-lot-of-damage-jon-tron-gif-13054497

[novel oracle]

but then i picked up more modern ones like persona, metaphor, and e33 and suddenly theyre fun again
cuz theyre more involved than just 2 groups taking turns slapping each other till one drops

[fast gust]

Age of Wonders 4

[jaunty coral]

is this build in the pins for bonesaw still valid/good? looking to climb havoc with it https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07e029c-5091-43b6-8b6e-8094459436b0/shock-and-awe-is-bis-now-btw?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button
its from a couple weeks ago unsure if it considers the new changes

[icy scaffold]

I recommend Chained Echoes, it’s a good love letter to old school JRPG’s and has a pretty decent story

[glacial gyro]

I want to amke it very clear I am not here to yuck anyone's yums. These are just not my yums. Watching this made it very clear it is not for me. If you enjoy this, good! There needs to be something for everyone. But there was just nothing about this that called to me.

[glacial gyro]

I do like AoW4. And that is turn based. But its the tactical positioning stuff I talked about.

[novel oracle]

i guess
if you were to try something in the field tho, that would be the first one to pick

[icy scaffold]

Have you tried Final Fantasy Tactics? Grid based turn based

[broken moss]

expedition 33 is a classic turn based game as far as the combat goes

[glacial gyro]

Its alright

[broken moss]

going back to final fantasy and whatnot

[icy scaffold]

I enjoyed FF12’s programming based combat system ngl

[novel oracle]

better than trying a game with a press turn system and getting absolutely pancaked cuz you had the audacity use 1 single demon/archetype in your party that an enemy is strong against

[novel oracle]

oops you made one critical planning mistake

die

[eternal quail]

owned + deserved

[chrome jackal]

does this guy run 3 stam curios

[novel oracle]

the enemy now doubles their turn count cuz of your poor planning
shoulda learned how the game worked bozo

[glacial gyro]

If that was a reference you understood, we are officially friends

[fallen arrow]

SMT in a nutshell

[chrome jackal]

heard this song once playing over a flash game.
never heard it again until now

[novel oracle]

Im glad metaphor exists cuz I just dont fuck with the stories that smt typically has

Very loose, symbolic stories in relation to theological ideas n shit

[drifting heron]

Metaphor is just acid with hype moments and aura

And it fucking works

[novel oracle]

If im handed slmething like that I need a solid comprehensible story on top to understand first

[fallen arrow]

My issue with SMT stories is, from what I know which is a bit reductive, is that they basically have the same structure of "Will you fight God, Satan, or both?"

[drifting heron]

It also lies to you about the setting

[novel oracle]

Otherwise im looking at an indecypherable puddle

[drifting heron]

Which I loved

[fallen arrow]

Dont spoil too much of Metaphor

I know of one thing about its setting

But Im not that far into it

[drifting heron]

You'll call it

Don't worry

[fallen arrow]

Yeh I think I know

[novel oracle]

Metaphor wants you to believe that it's a medival fantasy setting
But in reality
It is a video game you are playing

[fallen arrow]

Holy shit....

[drifting heron]

They tell you this

At the start

And we're all just dense

[novel oracle]

E33 is also the closest game that got to this btw

[foggy phoenix]

Robbed in the game awards

Rooobbbbbbeeed

[fallen arrow]

Still wanna go through E33 at some point in my life

But first Metaphor and Chrono Trigger

[drifting heron]

Metaphor is so good

[fallen arrow]

Oh dude I love it thus far

[drifting heron]

Its like persona 5 if it was good

[novel oracle]

And not baby easy

[fallen arrow]

I enjoyed P5 for the most part, but it didnt hit as hard as watching a playthrough of P4 back in my day

[drifting heron]

Persona 5 wasn't easy its balance just fucking sucked

Psi and nuke was a mistake

Physical was a joke

[fallen arrow]

I love Haru and Triple Shot

[novel oracle]

Idk I never struggled with anything

[drifting heron]

Yeah me neither

[fallen arrow]

It was my first Persona game, so I struggled a bit

[drifting heron]

I'm saying the reason its easy is the balance was ass

[novel oracle]

They just gave you too much that benefitted the player so you just steamrolled all the time

[fallen arrow]

My issue with P5 is a bit similar with Metaphor: MP items are stupidly rare for some reason in the early game

[drifting heron]

3 physicals instead of 2 physicals and 2 extra elements is so much better

[drifting heron]

I like the low economy stuff

Makes you think

And actually use weapon attacks

[fallen arrow]

Fair fair

[novel oracle]

The solution to that is to keep those crystals that spawn enemies alive up and farm them with mage for a bit if you get low

[fallen arrow]

True

Ive done it where I just run around with mage killing things before proceeding further

I did that in the King's Castle dungeon against that necromancer

It works but its tedious

[drifting heron]

I ran cleric for dungeon one so I just ran with it

[fallen arrow]

I also over leveled and took him out easily

[drifting heron]

Gods the first boss of metaphor was fun

Beat the shit out of me

[novel oracle]

That first boss made me want to kill myself

[fallen arrow]

Which one?

Necromancer fella?

[drifting heron]

It was fun in retrospect

[novel oracle]

On hard those zombies fucking annihilate your health

[drifting heron]

Yeah the Scottish twink

[fallen arrow]

Ahh yeah

[drifting heron]

Yarp

[drifting heron]

Making a twink with that accent is fucking diabolical

Also

[fallen arrow]

Its great

[drifting heron]

Play "Spot the Darktide voice actor"

[fallen arrow]

OH YEAH

[drifting heron]

You've seen 2-3 already

[fallen arrow]

YEAH THE GENERAL GUY EARLY IN THE GAME IS JUST BRAWLER

I dunno if I recognize anyone else immediately

[drifting heron]

Brawler, Outlaw, and Agitator

Grius is outlaw

[fallen arrow]

Outlaw is the Scottish twin--OHHH NOW I HEAR IT

[drifting heron]

Not the twink

[fallen arrow]

Female agitator is in everything I swear

[drifting heron]

Grius

[fallen arrow]

Oh yeah sorry, thats who I meant

[drifting heron]

And male agitator plays a candidate

[fallen arrow]

I got corrected midway through my sentence

Ohhhh interesting

I thiiiink I might've heard them once

[drifting heron]

One of the little guys

The libertarian

[plucky nymph]

spamming left click double barrel with speedloader and dethspitter is like, unnecessarily fun wth

[woeful hill]

I hate the recoil screen shake

I used triple barrel

and it got annoying

[fallen arrow]

Is it the fox/dog guy that you can debate on the podiums?

[plucky nymph]

i know its annoying, ESPECIALLY when you triple then into desperado for 6 shots and ur reticle is like, on the floor lmfao

[drifting heron]

No he's one of the horn people

[fallen arrow]

Ah

[drifting heron]

Roger the Libertarian

Thats it

[fallen arrow]

I'll have to start playing again and see if I already met him

[plucky nymph]

i tried single shot then into double, but idk why the reload gets like stuck so id rather just spam l click

[drifting heron]

Have you done all debates in the second town, the one out in the country

[fallen arrow]

I did one thus far

[drifting heron]

He's there eventually

[fallen arrow]

Then I decided to go out and finish one of the two dungeons

While raining because I forgot to plan properly

[drifting heron]

Lack of planning L

[fallen arrow]

I gotta learn sometime

[steel briar]

I was pinged but couldn't find the ping..

[drifting heron]

Luckily Metaphor can be true endinged without a guide and with like 2 weeks to spare

Which is a lot harder in the persona games

[novel oracle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjwFkKwM_hA

[drifting heron]

I almost missed it in 3 reload

I was almost 1 link short

[fallen arrow]

Yeah Im still doing the strat of attempting to finish the dungeons in a day to conserve the amount of days left

[drifting heron]

Yeah thats intended

You just wait till last day and then run it

[fallen arrow]

OH ITS AGITATOR LMAO

[drifting heron]

Yeah

[novel oracle]

yeah

btw

grius is the outlaw scum

[fallen arrow]

I know we were just talking about him but yeah it really is just Agitator

[fallen arrow]

Thinking about his voice, yeah I can hear it

[novel oracle]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5e1HV_DuH-0

[drifting heron]

Did you read grius btw

Or was it just me

[novel oracle]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bRRl_DAtwzE

[drifting heron]

Because I soul-read grius ||dying immediately as soon as i saw his stat block||

[fallen arrow]

I do wish Male Outlaw had a bit more of a gravelier voice like Grius'

Just so we could play as 40k'd Grius

[novel oracle]

btw i just saw this right now
the male judge voice is a side character in cathrinas follower storyline

[drifting heron]

Fuck

They're everywhere

[fallen arrow]

Darktide is canon in Metaphor....

[drifting heron]

I mean

Nvm shutting the fuck up

[novel oracle]

next class we better have ben starr

we already know he'll do it

[drifting heron]

Nah

Jennifer english

We'll win the game awards

[novel oracle]

thank you youtube for copying that link

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TSfKBTKmTKI

after all
ben starr will do anything for money

[drifting heron]

I loved the blank double thumbs up

[solar glen]

https://youtu.be/FjI42sxPaTM?si=4ZmMM4sUaCCdbG80

Hmm

[novel oracle]

thatll be fixed in january

[solar glen]

Looks like when they tried to fix nimble, they made it so that any human class can dodge ranged fire infinitely as long as you spam dodge

Also, did they fix nimble?

[woeful hill]

"Changed dodge stats from the talent trees to also impact incoming ranged damage, instead of just melee damage*."

it was intended

when they fixed nimble

[versed spruce]

@novel oracle Do you have that clip where you one shot the crusher with HS because of Hyper Vio

[solar glen]

No i meant like, the invincibility frames

[novel oracle]

it was a 2 shot but yes

[versed spruce]

Oh right bc that bromentum cleave

[solar glen]

Its the whole dodge now right?

[versed spruce]

ty ty

My friend asked "Is hyper violence good"

[drifting heron]

Maybe

[novel oracle]

yes
they changed the dodge linger state to also apply to ranged, whereas it didnt before
because thats fucking stupid

[drifting heron]

Just a lil

As a treat

[bronze glade]

it's very bad

[bronze glade]

for heretic skulls

[solar glen]

Okay cool

So nimble still B tier or A tier now?

[novel oracle]

turns out when you have a million people reporting that nimble is bugged when in reality it does exactly what it should be doing and people are just discovering that dodge linger is a melee only mechanic
and you try to rush to do something about it before the break so you change how dodges work
you completely break the entire balance of the entire game

[bronze glade]

turns out the devs also didn't know how dodge linger worked

[solar glen]

I mean, I wasn't complaining about ranged. I was complaining about getting downed by an overhead while dodging.

[glacial gyro]

Is this dclaw? I cant see it very well

[novel oracle]

that wasnt a nimble thing

thats cuz hitboxes were fucked up and larger than normal

[novel oracle]

heavy sword

[solar glen]

Man

[glacial gyro]

ah

[solar glen]

That sucks

[novel oracle]

thats 5 gunners killed in 1 light attack cuz of hyper violence

[novel oracle]

thats fixed now

[solar glen]

Thats cool

[glacial gyro]

Mauler and crusher overheads, if I recall, ignore dodges and blocks since they are AOEs

[solar glen]

Oooh

Didn't know that

[glacial gyro]

@novel oracle Tell me if I have this one wrong

[novel oracle]

they are aoe
its why you can get hit by them when theyre not aimed at you

normal melee attacks can only hit who theyre targeted at

[drifting heron]

The slot system is fascinating

[woeful hill]

slot system mentioned!!!!!!!!!!

[glacial gyro]

appropriate response

[novel oracle]

we're doing it
3x stamina curios
mk4 chaxe

[hasty agate]

When you put +50% cleave on the Crowbar, what does that effectively do for the number of targets you deal damage to in a single swing. The swing in question is the push attack.

[drifting heron]

You hit 50% more things

[glacial gyro]

why the mk4????

[hasty agate]

This is not the detailed answer I’m looking for.

[drifting heron]

How much detail do you want

[bronze glade]

m4

[drifting heron]

It increases cleave by 50%

Which means you can hit 50% more of a given enemy, probably

Cleave is probably one of the most simple hidden calculations in the game

[glacial gyro]

Consider your cleave like a budget that determines how much stuff your attack can go through. Each enemy has a hit mass, which subtracts from the cleave of your attack as it goes through. If you have a hundred cleave, and each enemy has 20 hitmass, it can go through 5 enemies. If you have something that gives you 60% more cleave, that takes your cleave to 160, so you can go through 8

[drifting heron]

If you have 8 cleave and add 50% you go from hitting 6 poxwalkers to 9 poxwalkers

[limber cradle]

If youre havoc 30 do you stay 30 on reset or do you need to be 31

I stopped playing for 2 weeks and I have to get back to the 30s

[hasty agate]

How many targets can the crowbar cleave through with the push attack at base. And how many targets does that become with +50% cleave. The crowbar doesn’t have a cleave targets stat in the inspect screen so here I am.

[drifting heron]

Idk

Push attack is always hidden

You need to go check the code

[glacial gyro]

THat is going to depend on what you hit. Different enemies have different hit mass values.

[drifting heron]

Or test it yourself

[glacial gyro]

But, ggenerally speaking, +50% cleave means you can go through 50% more enemies before the attack stops

Listen, its just good to keep in mind that cleave is good to have, and if you can get your weapon to pass through a scab rager, you've won

[novel oracle]

light spam for single target

[glacial gyro]

Is mk12 heavy spam for single target not better?

[novel oracle]

do you really want to heavy spam with a long latch attack on scum?

[glacial gyro]

The heavy isn't THAT long, unless you're revving

[novel oracle]

i just one shot a reaper with 1 light attack during rampage

[glacial gyro]

Is the slower heavies for horde clear worth it

I feel like fewer attacks > shorter rampage

[novel oracle]

when theres enough enemies up for you to even be using heavies on, rampage uptime isnt a problem

lightspam into bosses and crushers and stuff also takes it way further than heavy spam, which would be the times where it starts to fall off

[glacial gyro]

hmm, fair enough I suppose. I'll have to test it out, even though to me the mk4s moveset feels very unintuitive

I might just be me but I don't like relying on slower attacks in general, its why I could never get a handle on the branx. It feels like in the time it takes me to mail them the attack, I've been hit six times

[novel oracle]

with the attack speed you have, the heavies are quite fast

[glacial gyro]

I'll give it a try and see how I like it

There's a joke in here somewhere about slow heavy attacks and looping that back around to turn based gameplay but I'm too tired to assemble it properly

[novel oracle]

oh im most definitely a fast weapon person

this is the first time in a long time ive used chainaxe

either one

[steel briar]

Question

[novel oracle]

im a tac axe person

[steel briar]

Infantry Autogun or Braced Autogun?

[drifting heron]

For what

Because the answer is like 99% likely to be iag

[glacial gyro]

Vraks infantry. As much as I stan the graia brauto it lacks the traits necessary to carry value in higher difficulties

no cleave, low crit modifier

vraks is just kind of better

[steel briar]

Oh, that's what it was.

I was wondering why Infantry Autogun was out performing my Braced Autogun.

Thought I was tripping.

Ty y'all

[glacial gyro]

No, it has better crits and can go through some targets

[drifting heron]

Iag vs brauto is hydrogen bomb coughing baby comparison

[mortal meadow]

tried arby after maining hs for a while

literally hated it

[glacial gyro]

Brauto has huge amounts of suppression, which sounds great until you find out how few enemies in the game can be suppressed

and also dedicating yourself to suppression is a massive waste of HS's kit

[livid raven]

basically only other shooters

but not shotgunners

[glacial gyro]

I'm starting to wonder if smiter is actually worth it

stoked rage instead feels like it would help keep it maintained longer but doesn't cost you adrenaline against bosses

@novel oracle This look correct to you?

Or would you take cara/unyielding

[novel oracle]

i personally went cara unyielding yea

closest you can get to being both good and also having as little latch as possible cuz i hate revs

[glacial gyro]

Its so nice having so many experienced players I can bother with my insipid questions

On that subject:
Nodes I've Had Deep Thoughts About (I thought they were mandatory but I am no longer so sure)
-Adrenaline Smiter: I feel like this actually works against you, especially against bosses. Stoked Rage keeps it up longer, and even if without smiter it takes a little longer to come online, you can maintain it against bosses.
-Forge's Bellow: The knockback I feel like actually works against me, especially if I run blackouts and can lob one if I need a quick knockback for an escape. The 50% delay between attacks is only good if it works on bosses, which is hard for me to test. Everything else dies on touch or I knock it down with a blackout first

@novel oracle THoughts on these two?

[bronze glade]

adren smiter is really good

[glacial gyro]

For the chaxe in particular its really bad because if the rip kills the target, you get no stacks

[novel oracle]

forges bellow is basically a voc stagger at the start of your ability, and end (this can get dogs off of you), and yes it does in fact trivialize bosses, the start of the ability is also pretty useful cuz its an absolutely insane amount of stagger, which could be what you need to get out of a bad position

[glacial gyro]

SO forge's bellow plus targeted toxin really makes bosses trivial doesn't it

[glacial gyro]

I don't think I've ever felt bad for a daemonhost before

[novel oracle]

i mean

i kill dh for fun on any build

that was just the time i realized holy fuck this just makes them a non issue

you still have to at least FIGHT them with most builds

[glacial gyro]

So all in all on the subject of the chaxe, do you feel like the 4 is just better than the 12 in general

[novel oracle]

i feel like 4 probably works better on scum

but im not a chaxe expert

[glacial gyro]

We also had a pretty intense convo about the revolver earlier, what do you think of it on scum as a sidearm for melee

the agri's braced mode is really accurate with the sticky hands node

[novel oracle]

i think it works perfectly fine for sniping human ranged elites and specials, it has the cleave needlepistol doesnt so its better outright for specialists

also is much more generous with its hitbox

needlepistol just has the advantage of significantly higher total damage

[somber shard]

Is that the actual weapon name? Thsts bad ass

[novel oracle]

but over time

[glacial gyro]

yeah I'm starting to become disillusioned with the needle pistol, which felt like godmode at first but you start noticing its weaknesses fast

not to say its bad, its just not the end all be all

[zenith fern]

mods

[novel oracle]

thats what me and reginald were saying
theres plenty of times where youre like ok this is fucking busted

then other times youre like man why do i use this piece of shit

[glacial gyro]

yeah trying to thread the poxwalker needle to hit some trapper with plans for my asshole shimmying through the crowd is basically impossible

I have also been shot more than once by a sniper that was one tick away from dying to toxin

that said it trivializes crushers and that is always a useful tool to have

[novel oracle]

i will literally use a blinder to pause that situation

just cuz i cant hit the trapper right now

[glacial gyro]

The saw feels very strong but there's something about it that feels off to me

like I feel like I'm doing less damage than I am

[broken moss]

saw build working as intended

i think this may be the only build i actually want to run blinders on

[glacial gyro]

whoa how does your scoreboard have so much detail

[broken moss]

🤷

ovenproof plugin ig

idk what i have that u dont

[rigid dock]

is there anything different about building the db shotgun for desperado or is it still flechette manstopper flakiac?

[glacial gyro]

I just have the base

[glacial gyro]

I would take speedloader in there, less time reloading is more time turning heretics into red particle effects

[rigid dock]

over flechette i assume?

[glacial gyro]

Probably

[rigid dock]

coolio 👍

[worn gull]

Can anyone explain the stim cooldown change? I definitely felt it coming off cd way more often

[novel oracle]

stim cooldowns werent changed?

do you have sample collector

[broken moss]

yea he prob tried a new youtube build but didnt see sample collector was on it

[worn gull]

Yeah, i dunno maybe I missed a relevant maelstrom modifier? But the same ass build I was running before the latest patch somehow was refreshing stim every few seconds

[livid raven]

There is no modifier to decrease cooldown

[worn gull]

I've never youtubed a build in my life

[novel oracle]

did you change to a toxin focused build

[broken moss]

maelstrom fucks you

it doesnt give you boons lol

[worn gull]

Naw, it was the same ass build, like 27/30 or whatever viscosity with sample collector I've been running for a bit, for some reason I was able to drop crate maybe every 10 or so seconds?

I was regularly dropping it before the buff wore off when I never did that before, I was assuming something changed

[broken moss]

one thing to consider is that with med pack, ur stim goes on cd immediately

so with sample collector you will be popping it a lot

[rare stirrup]

It gives you stronger blitz and CD reduction sometimes

[broken moss]

ive never seen a positive maelstrom modifier

[rare stirrup]

It's fairly common

[broken moss]

whole point is to add challenge. why would it give you a boon?

ive seen DECREASED cooldowns

[livid raven]

I mean it's pretty common

[broken moss]

like ur CDs take longer

[slender plinth]

how does Columnus vs Vraks perform on desperado

[livid raven]

Uhhh no

[worn gull]

Enhanced blitz is up on like what 20% of maelstrom? I see it all the time

[slender plinth]

Columnus looks like it's same mag size and only slightly lower dps? So in theory more effecient?

[rare stirrup]

Decreased cooldowns literally means smaller cooldowns

[worn gull]

Sigh I guess nobody knows what I'm talking about, this is gonna be a pita to test what's happening

[rare stirrup]

Yeah idk what happened to you

[worn gull]

I guess I just got subconsciously very good at drugs

[novel oracle]

yeah nobody knows what youre talking about cuz the only 2 things that affect stim cooldown is viscosity and sample collector

[worn gull]

Yeah, why I was very confused when I did a couple runs before bed tonight and I was just pooping out crates like 3x as frequently as before

[novel oracle]

the only thing i can think of is your build having tons of toxin in it

vs not having much at all before

[worn gull]

I certainly didn't feel like I was killing anything close to 50 baddies in the few seconds after my crate blew up, but whatever I'm too tired to figure out why my runs were so cranked, I'll mess around in the morning

[short dew]

Do blessed stims go through wounds?

99% sure they dont but its fatshark u never know

[worn gull]

Naw

[short dew]

This doesnt work on team im assuming as well

[glacial gyro]

wait a second

this bitch is shooting us with boba!

[short dew]

xD

[calm aurora]

boba?

https://tenor.com/view/satisfying-boba-milk-gif-20782466

[glacial gyro]

boba tea

[calm aurora]

OHHH

[steel briar]

Amazing, my Infantry Autogun is killing everything.

[novel oracle]

why would it

[steel briar]

Daka has prevailed.

[short dew]

yeah it says use so it wouldnt work on the box

the dot for scum cleaver is how many stacks? 2?

and stacks to 16 im assuming

cant tell cuz healthbars dont show it 😭

[echo python]

Chem Toxin stacks up to 30, I think

[livid raven]

1 on hit, 2 on crit, 2 on weakspot hit, 3 on critical weakspot hit i think

[foggy phoenix]

What build and blessings pl0x

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/fei-fong-wong-xenogears-pendant-nisan-gif-25277897

xenogears my beloved

[foggy phoenix]

I only remember "not enough to out-tox shivs with the crit toxin node"

[sinful matrix]

Imperium's weakest psyker vs nurgle's strongest demon or whatever

(power scaling in darktide may or may not be wacky)

[foggy phoenix]

Really did the saw dirty by making its regular swing speed like that ChAxe mark that chews on your enemy on each hit

Wish it only gets stuck on heavies

[broken moss]

saw is amazing

[novel oracle]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9df889cb-3b31-4432-99d0-190de01dc205/i-cast-physical-slash?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[broken moss]

why is that dude throwing sausages

[novel oracle]

hes the sausage wizard

[foggy phoenix]

Oh, it's disrupt destiny

[novel oracle]

no shit lmao

thats just what you run on a non warp build

[foggy phoenix]

Haven't really used DD for anything other than maxing the psyker penances

[compact oyster]

No immaterial focus?

[novel oracle]

disrupt destiny is a fucking stupid amount of damage

[broken moss]

assail + scriers + dd

[limber cradle]

Me slapping SG and DD on psyker without fully understanding them and murdering everything for minimal effort