hivescum-class

[novel oracle]

what tf is this

[tropic crag]

naw i get you, some rounds i can't regen them to save my life and some rounds i can't keep the number under 5

[final temple]

this is ignorant of the very intent of the artist of the performative aspect of the experience. suspension as a concept works entirely on the conscious deprivation of narrative overview.

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/giggling-laughing-spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-laugh-gif-3488350484003293754

[marble basin]

Ah yes, ranged damage on a toxin-based weapon

[manic wolf]

Jesus, that is bad

[final temple]

video games live off suspense.

[mighty belfry]

Toxin good for sustained dps on higher hp targets and let's sample collector proc more

[novel oracle]

these both do work though
they work for all damage when the weapon is held in your hand

[brittle sierra]

that's way too low to justify all of the nodes you need to take with it

at the very least take dependency to get the crit rate

also, dot kills don't count towards smiter

[mighty belfry]

It makes sense to have it especially on tac axe

[brittle sierra]

why do you care about stimm CDR if you are just using it anyways to get CDR back to rampage?

[marble basin]

I remember testing that a year or two ago and it didn't work with melee dmg vs elites and bleed on a knife. Maybe it's been changed though, I could be wrong

[tropic crag]

naw the real joke is that we're getting into two schools of thought and neither of them is actually wrong. Because the answer is never as simple as one being more correct than the other and it doesn't just vary person to person, it can vary from story to story with 1 person. its why i said bad art is great, because all art is bad art to someone

[brittle sierra]

I'm more of a Hegelist myself

[novel oracle]

getting a crit basically every other swing is not too low to justify it what lmao, esp on a weapon this fast
it also gives you base damage in the node below it which is multiplicative with strength and damage, on bosses you can also stack it super fast or dump needlepistol then maintain it with by just critting

[brittle sierra]

so to get 7 dots, I need to hit the enemy 14 times?

[compact oyster]

Cole

The build is focused around ability regen

[novel oracle]

you have upwards of 40% attack speed with one of the fastest weapons in the game

[compact oyster]

Doesnt pick cdr stim or sample collector

[brittle sierra]

I can get even faster dot spikes with shivs, oh wait now I'm going crit shivs with crate 😛

[tropic crag]

clicking that fast for that long hurts my hand man

[brittle sierra]

there is also no hypercrit in this build which is very strange

[frigid thorn]

I set my side mouse button to auto click against single targets lol

[novel oracle]

cuz its a melee build

you take hyper violence

expecially with taxe, a bm weapon

[tropic crag]

thats what i've fallen into, just HV on all my melee builds

[brittle sierra]

wants crit
no hyper crit to oneshot everything

[tropic crag]

you still one shot, just in a different way

[novel oracle]

hyper violence allows this without the need for crits and it also works into non human sized enemies

[final temple]

that’s just a cop out. Fact is, media literacy has nothing to do with this. it’s entirely about the emotional impact of experience. media literacy comes only into play after where you put this into an interpretative context. but there is a massive lack if you don’t experience the work as intended versus a deliberate distortion for the sake of metacriticism. the latter isn’t invalid, but it is also not what we were talking about when people pointed out that the story does make use of suspense for dramaturgical reasons and is thus best experienced blind the first time.

[novel oracle]

and crits scales it higher

[brittle sierra]

why not both and stop worrying about the dots?

[mighty belfry]

Hyperviolence is all you really need with rampage. Hypercrit is more for builds that don't invest heavy into melee, especially since I'm pretty sure hypercrit interferes with some on kill effects and also doesn't work on ogryn enemies

[novel oracle]

because hyper crit puts roadblocks and can cut the scaling of hyper violence short

[brittle sierra]

you can take sweatspot too

[tropic crag]

yeah my comment was saying that i don't understand people who can't revisit said emotional impacts.... i read the last page of books first and normally don't mind endings spoiled, i understand others do but i don't understand what they lose from it because i can get the same impacts every time as long as its done correct... hence the whole schools of thought and media literacy thing

[novel oracle]

thats less than a 10% damage buff

[brittle sierra]

no pickpocket either yeesh

[tropic crag]

like i can revisit stories that i experienced 25 years ago and gone through hundreds of times and they still hit me the same... i kind of feel sad others don't do that

[novel oracle]

holy shit its a fucking melee build

you dont need ammo

[tropic crag]

but how you are killing enemy without bullet?

[frigid thorn]

I haven't found the need for pickpocket personally

[charred bronze]

I re-experience old stories, but there's nothing quite like going into a great story or twist blind.

I'll reference KOTOR for that

[novel oracle]

if youre shooting THAT MUCH on a melee build why are you running a melee build

just pick up the 1 or 2 ammo tins you need for the entire mission and save yourself the points

[brittle sierra]

i mean unlimited ammo is extremly powerful in havoc, buture if this is just a regular auric it works

[novel oracle]

my statement still applies in havoc

[brittle sierra]

needle pistol is also no the most ammo efficient

[brittle sierra]

stop the 🧢

[final temple]

I get you. But claire obscure banks so heavily on it that the very first experience is formative for the reception. It’s the same with L’Horde du Contrevent. The whole story changes in how you understand it if you know the twist.

[novel oracle]

theres 2 auras that greatly stretch your ammo further

[tropic crag]

i've played through kotor around 100ish times (used to beat in it a few times a week for a stint), I would go through the game named "Naver Drol Krad" as a joke about the ending. The ending still hits the same to me today as it did back then... same with jade empire because i simply travel that road again

[mighty belfry]

Ah, the pickpocket brainrot

[lapis raft]

needle pistol is pretty ammo efficient with coated weaponry at least

[mighty belfry]

It's begun. It's over.

[novel oracle]

and most people are already opting for infinite ammo stuff like psyker anyway

[dim moth]

you have the literal best practical mobility in the game

[broken moss]

sounds like clair obscur doesn't have a whole lot of replay value

[dim moth]

engage in crab movement

and go side dodge up to the ranged enemies and stab them

[lapis raft]

if you dont have coated weaponry on melee build with needle pistol then i think thats just mistake

[tropic crag]

and on a personal level i don't like art that does this which is why i argue that it would make a bad story... when talking about art there is no objective so i should clarify i really do mean bad stories to me

[frigid thorn]

Anyways Cole do you think my build modification of yours looks ok, lol

[novel oracle]

i mean it does in the same way a dark souls game has replay value, fight the same bosses with different builds

[frigid thorn]

Just moved some stuff around

[lapis raft]

didnt they also added like hard mode or something in the goty update

to e33

for replayability

[novel oracle]

yeah i think thats fine
it does sacrifice some damage for chems and better stim uptime but thats just personal preference

[dim moth]

replayability is stupid anyways

[final temple]

and I disagree. It doesn’t make the story bad. but it literally takes away from the wealth of possible interpretations once you have the key to understand it. the interpretation switches from parsing inter social cues to something entirely else.

[dim moth]

I'm here for an unforgettable experience not a replayable one when it comes to RPGs

[broken moss]

interesting example. typically I don't find myself replaying soulsbornes unless I have an interest in trying multiple builds for PVP.

[dim moth]

If I wanted a replayable RPG I'd play an MMO or like Path of Exile

[novel oracle]

yeah there are some games where replayability shouldnt be considered as a selling point

[tropic crag]

sometimes very over rated yeah... sometimes its a great thing to have

[frigid thorn]

I really enjoy the one you built, I'm just bad with the blackouts lol

[lapis raft]

i def like replayability in games where you have actual build making as thats always fun

[tropic crag]

speaking of games with great stories almost nothing beats the like a dragon series

from 0 to 8 and most of the spinoffs are great

[compact oyster]

Ehh

I think infinite wealth had the weakest story

[novel oracle]

i mean im not even joking
last night i spent a while literally learning one of the goty update bosses movesets so i could parry it
you really can just play the game as if it had souls bosses

[rare stirrup]

"yeah man you gotta try it it's so replayable"

looks inside
game is boring even on first playthrough

Happens more often than I'd like

[novel oracle]

id consider this heavy spoilers cuz this area is literally at the end of the game

[compact oyster]

Dink dink dink dink

[broken moss]

depends on the game. something long, epic, with tons of things to keep you interested for a long time before actually completing, like Skyrim or something, yea replayability isn't really important. but for a short game it may matter.

subjective stuff

[near mauve]

most good rpgs are replayable by defualt

branching choices and stuff

mmos and path of exiles wont offer u the same things SP games offer

[tropic crag]

i personally loved the story... the overall story was whatever but the characters journies through each were great... maybe i just have a soft spot for ichiban since that moment in 7 where he's at the crossroad of great loss and looking over at his new friends near the end is just, it was one of the most relatable feelings i've ever seen in a video game

so seeing him go through the journy he did in 8 was a thing i think that was needed for the story

[novel oracle]

tbh tho those are typcally so long that im satisfied with the first run

[compact oyster]

I just think too many characters died for no reason

Its a real damn shame gaiden was made after infinite wealth

[brittle sierra]

i mean sure, but sometimes its just better to use range, I'm just saying the value of unlimited ammo is better than taking 4 nodes for on average 2 toxic dots before the target dies

[near mauve]

yeah ends up the same with me but i replayed bunch few times anyway

usually other runs end way faster

cause u just rush main quest

[tropic crag]

i think that was part of the point tbh, i'm not saying you should like it, but i think they were crafting a story thats more about when you reach the age they've reached and your world keep changing because all these mainstays are vanishing and things just feel... shorter

[final temple]

I personally can ‘t wait for the third part of FFVII to come out. I want to play all three back to back and not touching them is hard

[brittle sierra]

I do agree wiht one thing tho, people are sleeping on tac for melee scum, it is very potent

[tropic crag]

taxe is like... just obviously good yeah

[compact oyster]

The ending of gaiden alone puts it at the best yakuza game for me

[tropic crag]

sometimes thats not even whats needed... just interesting enough systems to engage with can be enough for some games

[tropic crag]

i can't hate you for that, because i'd be hard pressed to really argue against it being amazing... hell i even liked pirate yakuzas story

as bare as it is lol

[near mauve]

gaidne final chapter is peak but best yakoz is still 0 and 7

[livid raven]

does it have dame da ne guy

pirate yakuza story i mean

[final temple]

still not keen on HC and HV together. I get it, it’s for pathing. but eh.

[compact oyster]

I played all yakuza games before gaiden so at the ending i cried so hard

[brittle sierra]

do they have negative synergy?

[final temple]

effectively yes. it’s not always visible but HC literally makes HV worse

[novel oracle]

if you kill something with hypercrit, the overkill is 0

[tropic crag]

if you liked the story of yakuza 7, its mostly based off a jdrama called "Priceless"... its almost the same story but about a business and not yakuza... its actually an amazing show and i have zero doubt the makers of 7 were taking huge parts of the story (they even had some of the shows actors in the game)... yakuza has basically retold stories like this before but yeah... priceless is a great show

[novel oracle]

which can stop hyperviolence in its tracks

[ashen crescent]

Haymaker + Hypercrit gang

[brittle sierra]

ok then just do this then

[compact oyster]

Because instakill effects dont generate overkill damage

[hasty agate]

Or blackouts

[near mauve]

ill add it to my list of 100000000 shows that i wanna watch within 10 business years

[tropic crag]

lol yakuza 7 is an example of me knowing the ending before the ending... because i had watched priceless and halfway through playing i was like "oh wait... wait this is priceless" and everything was "spoiled" for me but i still cried ugly tears through the whole ending every time

[novel oracle]

i also dont see why youd need cleave on taxe

[livid raven]

is the +25% weakpoint damage really worth it

[novel oracle]

no

[brittle sierra]

hopefully fatshark fixes it because hypercrit has a lot of negative synergies with a lot of things it shouldn't have

[livid raven]

yeah that's what i thought

[final temple]

defo makes more sense. personally I would switch up the 6 o clock adrenaline node for the 7 o clock one. and move battering strikes somewhere else.

[brittle sierra]

for example, hypercrit doesn't work with stun nades

[tropic crag]

i think its fine how it is, its basically a "you don't want to invest in alot of nodes for melee because its not the main focus so take this one instead of those 6"

[novel oracle]

i think its okay for things like hv and hc to not synergize

[dim moth]

what do you meaaaaaan

[novel oracle]

what i dont think is okay is the position of hyper crit

[novel oracle]

hyper crit instakill doesnt count as a kill for generating blinders

[dim moth]

oh

right that

that's stupid

[compact oyster]

I find it odd that hyper crit is positioned in the ranged branch

[livid raven]

i think they should at least not kill each other. Hyper violence could just the strike's damage into consideration

[brittle sierra]

if u hypercrit something it does not give you a stack for the nades to replenish

[compact oyster]

Whilst it only works on melee

[tropic crag]

that is the one thing i think should be different tbh

[manic wolf]

Hypercrit is just a bait node tbh

[dim moth]

it's very good for making up for low melee damage on tox/gun builds

[tropic crag]

(fs subtly trying to tell its players to not use only ranged baffling its playerbase)

[novel oracle]

hyper crit is basically just melee damage compensation on ranged builds

[manic wolf]

The only weapons I can see it holding value for are shivs and combat knife

Everything else, even with little investment is still probably gonna be better with HV

[viscid pivot]

finna try this out

[tropic crag]

naw even bonesaw with 5% crit on it pops enough for it to happen

[hearty mango]

Tac axe is also amazing with hyper critical

[brittle sierra]

no dont this is actually bad

[tropic crag]

i don't know why you would use bonsaw on a ranged build

[placid prairie]

i love hyper violence and hyper crits on shivs

[brittle sierra]

I still have one node left, but not sure where to put it

maybe cheap shot?

[manic wolf]

Thats something that benifits more from Hyperviolence because it can hit hard as fuck

[final temple]

bonesaw more often than not just kills with toxin stacks. that’s it’s own can of worms.

[placid prairie]

the amount of times i've one tapped maulers is very dopamine producing

[hearty mango]

I just take both

[brittle sierra]

i have one node left

[manic wolf]

You could have 4 nodes left tbh

[tropic crag]

its a great weapon you just need to build a build thats just your "bonesaw build"... my build is like... 6 nodes difference from coles pinned tox build

but i think both builds work fine

[manic wolf]

Weakspot is kinda mid, and Pickpocked/AmmoJack are kinda superflous to a melee build

That gives you room for 20s duration on Adrenaline, the rending node on rampage and either an extra blitz charge or Coated

[brittle sierra]

tbh sometimes I wonder if I should just go rashad then 💀

[tropic crag]

yeah i would never take so much on the left like that with a melee build... like one node dip in for the attack speed on stam one sometimes

[hearty mango]

I would take adrenaline unbound, or whatever the one is that extends the duration of adrenaline frenzy. I also would just do away with the top right node for adrenaline, I feel like you gain stacks quickly enough without it

[tropic crag]

i take that adren node on most weapons, except bonesaw i put the bottom 3 nodes in

gave me more up time overall

[manic wolf]

Nah, the top right node on Adrenaline is excellent value

Its like two elite kills for proccing Frenzy

[brittle sierra]

i dont think I ever have problems keeping adren up as long as I have smiter

[manic wolf]

Very good node

[hearty mango]

I keep telling myself that but once you fight one boss adrenaline frenzy is all gone

[manic wolf]

Yer, Smiter is kinda the best node on the keystone

[brittle sierra]

cheapshot can be decent but I feel like that is a node better for rashad

[manic wolf]

Thats why most people also take the 20s duration node

[true cosmos]

What is the use case for the dual stubs' special action? Is it for sniping?

[drifting heron]

Yes

[hearty mango]

Aura farming

[tropic crag]

when i've seen people using it well its for like longer mid range popping of specials

[manic wolf]

Its kinda another one of those rather inconsequential nodes, the only thing you can proc it on with any sort of consistency is the Crowbar's beak mode

[brittle sierra]

this is what I use for rashad

[hasty agate]

How valuable is cleave on crowbar?

[manic wolf]

More valuable than it is on things like Heavy Sword or T/C axes

But Crowbar is kinda sucky

[tropic crag]

i would still lose the nodes on the left except the attack speed one... but if they are your comfort nodes then you can keep them , i have nodes like that

[tropic crag]

crow bar is very safe if nothing else, just kind of a reliable option that stays reliable even in really scuffed situations

[hasty agate]

I mean, crowbar and shivs are the only scum melees I like so.

[foggy lantern]

Just like in Half-Life, lol

[manic wolf]

Yeah, its safe, but half its moveset being actively detrimental to that safety does not help it

Beaky mode tends to grab everything around the target you actually want it to bite into an thats sort of problematic

[tropic crag]

if the gman brought gordon to fight with us we'd already have won

[manic wolf]

It needs some target priority tweaks

[tropic crag]

yeah i wouldn't arguing with some hitbox tweaks on the crowbars pointy end

the blunt end tends to be the better end to use for most things

[winter tusk]

yeah crowbars kinda shit

[manic wolf]

Yer, like in theory Crowbar is a super flexible weapon, but it grabbing every poxwalker around the Mauler or Crusher you actually want to delete kinda ruins that, which is sad. You're already taking a bit of a damage L vs stuff like TacAxe, Rashad and Heavy Sword for the theorised flexibility, there is no reason it should just randomly cuck you

[ancient basin]

and crowbar dodge profile is like a power sword, flaccid

[winter tusk]

Not enough payoff for something that locks you in

[rare stirrup]

Yeah, except power sword actually does damage

[winter tusk]

crowbar does decent damage, itd just be infinitely better if it didnt lock you in

[hasty agate]

It doesn’t make sense on paper and it can’t reach 100% crit but so far I prefer the crowbar on crit tox builds. The Bash blessing on it is fucking awesome for applying tox to everything in front of you.

[manic wolf]

Yeah, its just the sticking problem for Crowbar for the most part, if that was adressed, it would probably be quite good

Sure its not super mobile and its not the highest damage option, but being able to deal with every target is a pretty big thing on its own

[ancient basin]

my only issue with crow bar is the dodge profile, otherwise its workable for sure

[winter tusk]

everything else is kinda fine imo, but that lock in is shit in a tight senario

just died in a spot that shivs wouldve obliterated because of lock in

[tropic crag]

its dodge is earnestly fine

[ancient basin]

you can work around it, but it is very jarring for me is all so I dont prefer it

[winter tusk]

kinda can work around it

some senarios you kinda really cant lol

[upbeat lynx]

i second this

[manic wolf]

Every weapon is jarring compared to TacAxe on Scum

[winter tusk]

eh

literally just the hook animation is a problem imo

everything else is fine

[ancient basin]

Tac axe, shivs, and combat knife all have fantastic mobility and flexibility in move set, dodge profile, and anti armor options. With scum melee buffs they do very very well in any build.

I have been partial to devil claw recently, as the parry covers my dodge problems with a massive hyperviolence starter burst that doubles for solo tanking monstrosities. Spam left click to clear hordes by walking forward, pushing into a spawn wave if needed to rejoin your team.

[light phoenix]

Question

What is a good gun on a non-desperado build?

[ancient basin]

Needler is amazing all around. Revolver can punch through carapace too, but takes some investment. the rest are either for horde clear or special sniping, but cannot deal with carapace in any way.

[hasty agate]

Bolt pistol has been my go to if not the needle pistol.

[ancient basin]

bolt pistol increases the blast radius of your blinders for chem nades iirc

with that one perk it has

[winter tusk]

lethal proximity blessing

have to activate it for it to work though

[ancient basin]

still amazing for crowd clearing or saving team mates

[winter tusk]

pretty busted with explosives

probably works with rpg too

[ancient basin]

my yeehaw hipfire revolver mostly gets rid of crushers, its a bit tempermental though as it relies on crits to get a 1 mag

rpg might be harder to do unless its a long shot, as you would have to proc the perk, shoot the rocket, and then swap back to the gun before the rocket hit

which it has some serious ready and stow animation tax

[light phoenix]

I am curious about this, how's the ammo economy?

[south ice]

anyone got a h40 bonesaw melee build i could try out
been using a shit ton of gun builds

i need it like the scum needs needles

[hasty agate]

If you do the special attack with the bolt pistol (with lethal proximity) and immediately follow that with a shot it’s like a mini Blastoom grenade gauntlet special attack.

[ancient basin]

with pick pocket you never run out of ammo, you have 3 full mags worth of bullets after each refill so you can mince anything short of a monstrosity with it

snipers can be a chore too

I dropped some of the more melee amping talents to get some more ranged talents on my rampage build and it is fairly well rounded for auric, as I dont have a squad for havoc to test it. Assuming it would do fine though, just have to have better melee fundamentals to cover for when you need to reload after getting blitzed by 7+ specials.

[dim moth]

why do you need ranged talents tho

the only "well rounded" gameplay melee scum should have is the arcing trajectory you take going and massacring the ranged enemies before coming back to the team

[livid raven]

just saw a dude running heavy sword/double barrel shotgun and supply pack

he is currently being followed by 20 crushers

[ancient basin]

just to make the 1 mag crushers a bit more consistent, personal preference really. And even without the few talents I dropped I can still go supernova on anything in melee

aside from crushers and maulers I guess, but I got my revolver and blinders for that

https://tenor.com/view/on-fire-cowboy-shooting-gun-gif-15317612

me when I see crushers or maulers approaching in a mixed horde

[heavy fiber]

just dont be one of those that just shoot bursters no matter where they are

just had a lobby where the dumbass just shoot them even when a teammate is getting ready to push it away

then i was cussing slurs at him the whole game

b4 the scum update i nvr have problems like this everyone knew how easy to handle burster

the free weekend was hell especially in shock trooper gauntlet

[winter galleon]

what stim yall run with melee scum?

[ancient basin]

that is probably from FS destroying the burster AI, spawn rate, and explosion radius teaching them to shoot first and push second to avoid buggy horse shit

you using your stim during rampage or after?

[winter galleon]

right now running damage+attack speed and popping it as much as can alongside, but was debating a cdr and popping after

[heavy fiber]

i run full dmg into crit then 2 nodes on atk spd stim for rampage

[ancient basin]

checking

[heavy fiber]

1 afternoon 7/10 wipes in my games , i kept either throw to the side from the back , or when i get ready to push some turd just shoot from behind me , this was during the free weekend , just 1 day and i had enough , 3 wipes in i was cussing like a sailor on a bad divorce

[ancient basin]

3/5/2 toughness, attack speed + movement, CDR is what I run, using it only after the rampage ends

[heavy fiber]

didnt touch the game again until the free weekend was over

free weekend was a massive mistake

[ancient basin]

I feel that, it was spicy for sure including barrel pvp and parasite heads on the shrine event too

jobers shooting into hordes and pinballing me all over as I go for melee kills

[heavy fiber]

u see them not using the dodge at all and just shoot everything that moves , rampant hogging any resources they come across , what a shitshow

this compounding on how paper scum was , i couldnt take it anymore

[ancient basin]

melk came through today

[heavy fiber]

nice

that 1 day in the free weekend gave me enough animosity to want to break that 1 FS staff kneecaps that proposed the free weekend

it was when scum is fresh off the oven too

[dim moth]

it was real fun double whammy of shit teammates

I enjoyed it quite a lot

[heavy fiber]

partly my fault for jumping the gun and buy the class without sitting back and watch it pan out , was too confident during the arbites class release

[ancient basin]

all the new players just ambling around with broken ankles and sticky fingers

arbites was very smooth as it is a very forgiving class comparatively

[manic wolf]

I dont think so, had what amounted to a true duo yesterday with a level 28 Zealot. They didnt play perfectly because they were obviously new, simple getup, simple frame etc, but having new players who are willing to stick it out when things get rough is a good thing

[heavy fiber]

it was easy to tell as well , because they wont dodge AT ALL , not even once and u can watch em go down as the crowd just wails at em for free

[ancient basin]

no hate for the new players from me, just reasonable frustration is all

[heavy fiber]

not for me especially when it was a new class i am trying to lvl and 7/10 wipes in 1 afternoon , my patience ran out on the 3rd wipe, when i came back after the free weekend smooth lvling to max and at least fully gear on 1 of my scum build

now i am getting my 2nd build geared

[manic wolf]

Jesus, thats rough. I was levelling through the same period an I think I had 3 wipes total on the way to 30?

RNG pug matches are RNG

[heavy fiber]

after the 3rd wipe i am still giving them chances , it was very obvious at the mission lobby screen as well cuz they got the basic bitch cosmetic

but after 4 more wipes i was too angry to go on and i dont wanna smash anything , went to take a shower and play something else

[hasty agate]

Is rending only useful against carapace?

[sturdy linden]

honestly I had worse experiences with the returning plasma vets

got to the point where I just started queue dodging them

[manic wolf]

I believe it effects more or less every armour type other than Infested and Unarmoured, but in most cases you wont see a huge increase outside of Flak/Carapace. Maybe Unyeilding too on some weapons

[heavy fiber]

hoo, didnt bother to check their gear and talents isnt it ? i know that feeling

[sturdy linden]

either that or just shit

new players I stopped seeing from Heresy onwards I think

[heavy fiber]

at least they still got the basics

[manic wolf]

Yeah that was about the cutoff

[sturdy linden]

1 weekend isn't enough for a new player to break out of heresy

[manic wolf]

An being able to solo clutch a heresy if you need to wasnt a huge drama

[heavy fiber]

heresy just filters them , because thats where u get ogryn squads

[hasty agate]

So if my source of rending is the opportunist blessing on my melee weapon, would opportunist give tox ticks rending as well if the target is staggered?

[heavy fiber]

and they are SHIT up the creek against ogryn squads

[manic wolf]

If anything you'd expect new Ogryns and Arbs to have the easiest time in Heresy

[manic wolf]

Not really no, because Tox's lowest ADM is like 0.9

Ie; 90% of full damage

[heavy fiber]

Arbs and Ogryns just swan lake past Heresy , i can waddle my way past Heresy as Arbs even when drowsy

i have to pay a bit more attention as Ogryn cuz shooters and snipers

anything else i dont care

i can even walk into a daemonhost and slap its shit back into the warp

[sturdy linden]

the way rending works is, it is additive to your ADM. If you have 10% rending and tox has 0.9 ADM baseline, you will have 1.0 ADM with the rending. However, any extra rending you have beyond this point will be applied as damage at 25% effect. So if you had say 25% rending, you'd get 1.0 ADM and then you'd get 15%*(1/4) = 3.75% damage

and obv this applies individually to each target armor type (flak/maniac/carapace/unyielding) and each attack profile

tl;dr don't overinvest, not efficient

[hasty agate]

So in simple terms rending isn’t doing much of anything for tox ticks

[manic wolf]

Almost nothing

[sturdy linden]

yeah tox baseline ADM is too good

does a lot for bleed tho

or even burn I think? not sure

[manic wolf]

Tox probably needs some adjustment

[heavy fiber]

what i understand for that bonesaw is , if u got teammates around use the rending slather if not stick with tox coating the whole time

[manic wolf]

Bath has a graph that shows Tox as scaling linearly, which is just wild

[heavy fiber]

i dont agree , aside from the rpg the tox is the other strong component in the scum arsenal and its already small enough as it is already

not even Arb weapons is as powerful as anything the scum has that applies tox

[manic wolf]

Its the strongest DoT at any amount of stacks lol

[haughty badger]

is the Blinder's natural recovery borked right now? it says every 20 kills in close range, but it feels like 100

[heavy fiber]

and is great

[zenith pagoda]

Feels good to not need rending for DOT

[heavy fiber]

iirc it doesnt count if they die from tox

[manic wolf]

If you're running Pocket Toxin, kills from that don't count towards regen

[heavy fiber]

has to be melee kill

[haughty badger]

yeah but without that too

[haughty badger]

ah

[heavy fiber]

is actually awesome for a rampager build

[manic wolf]

But thats the tradeoff; you get mini-fish tins, but you pay for that with regen

[heavy fiber]

u keep tossing out tox nade with the tox blitz node then murderize to regen more

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. you'd be able to probably clear with just blinders, which would be very silly

[heavy fiber]

is great

u thin a crowd really fast with just 1 toss

[main wagon]

Mortis indulgence that gives void shield on grenade is hilarious with blackouts

[mighty belfry]

Close kill

It can be ranged.

[main wagon]

Not as funny as healing box of hurt but still silly

[mighty belfry]

But it can't be finished off by a DoT.

[manic wolf]

No idea what modifiers Scum gets in Mortis, i heard there is an RPG one tho so I gottsa do it at somepoint

[heavy fiber]

i heard it turns the rpg into a nuke

[ancient basin]

there was a major crit one that worked great

had two major blessings that gave nade barriers and nade heals allies on blinders

[heavy fiber]

at least FS was smart to buff the rpg asap

[mighty belfry]

I love the boom bringer but when there's multiple people using it in one party

Especially when you get the knucklehead that feels the need to use it against a single crusher

For every single rocket they havr.

And then take every grenade pick up.

[heavy fiber]

oh i dont pull out the rpg that easily

at least has to be ogryn squad and above

[grave venture]

But when there's a crusher pack, my god

[manic wolf]

Sorry, thats me 😄

[grave venture]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-manhattan-gif-18899941

When see crusher

[manic wolf]

Don't give me the morrow face, I'll shoot snipers with it too if I get the chance

[haughty badger]

refunds RPG use on elite kill (or special but it doesnt say that) so RPG becomes your primary

[heavy fiber]

i will debate that snipers do deserve it

[manic wolf]

LMAO

[hasty agate]

The ranged scum has insecurities about crushers

[manic wolf]

Thats fuckin busted

[haughty badger]

it's so great

[manic wolf]

Oh no, I play melee Scum, i just like exploding stuff lule

[heavy fiber]

disrespect the sniper in any way u can , thats why i mainly run brick on ogryn

[mighty belfry]

Snipers if they're in a really fucked up angle

Yah I can see it.

[manic wolf]

Whats funniest about it is if you hit them directly it just goes straight through them

The ultimate in "get-fucked" technology

[heavy fiber]

u got killed by a well aim brick even when u got that soup up las rifle , thats gotta stink sniper

idc how far they are i will same day delivery them to Emporer with a brick

[haughty badger]

I play all Scum. I kinda hate some of the anti-synergies scattered all around the tree, and Desperado/Rampage feel like duplicates of each other, just with melee or ranged buffs. otherwise, love Scum

[manic wolf]

I must admit I think ranged Scum needs to get sledgehammered into the ground lol

[mighty belfry]

I personally think that playing pseudo rampage with stimm supply is my favorite setup

Not the most high damage but giving that damage to my teammates helps a lot.

[haughty badger]

using autogun for 99% of the match with complete disregard for my ammo economy is maybe a tad too much

[manic wolf]

And you know... immunity to ranged and immunity to 80% of the rest of the game basically all the time yadayada

[haughty badger]

that's like, the only good part of Desperado

[broken moss]

I wish I could share this sentiment

[heavy fiber]

u impress me , that optimistic look that pubs can shoot or land their hits

[brittle sierra]

Me using Vraks to wave clear, kill specialists, and nuke bosses:

[broken moss]

if my teammates spent more time vertical I'd have more faith

[heavy fiber]

not even myself give pubs that much credit

[mighty belfry]

Me usually doing the highest damage regardless of having a dumb box for stimms

[manic wolf]

Desperado giving you free reloads is strong enough. It doesnt need to make you immune to a huge portion of the threats in the game because it lowers the skill ceiling to nothing

[broken moss]

I'm completely okay with desperado doing what it does. delete pickpocket

and maybe give desperado a longer cd

[haughty badger]

well, the free reloads are great when you dont have infinite ammo from pickpocket, but pickpocket is right there

[manic wolf]

Yes. Pickpocket also needs nuking

Vulture's Dodge aswell

Coz that shit is stupid

[broken moss]

needs removed. I see no way to make that talent relevant without being ridiculous

[astral canyon]

45s is long enough considering it only starts once the ability is over imo

[manic wolf]

Indeed

[haughty badger]

I like pickpocket because I like infinite ammo (I'm a Waystalker main ) but it really does need to be more conditional

[icy scaffold]

Don’t delete pickpocket smh

[broken moss]

but is it REALLY 45 seconds, being that cdr stims are what they are?

[manic wolf]

I would make it 90s tbh

[icy scaffold]

I’d probably just drop Hive Scum and declare SM2 the better 40k game at that point

[dim moth]

the ones I know of are: Stimm Supply shocks nearby enemies every 4 seconds, Blinders cause enemies to take 200% increased damage from all sources for 30 seconds, and rocket is refunded when killing any elite/special enemy

[dim moth]

Pickpocket is not the source of gun scum being too strong

[manic wolf]

Ahh yes, QTE; the game

[dim moth]

veteran can shoot all game with a recon lasgun or helbore and nobody gives a shit

gun scum comes out and can shoot all game with worse damage and suddenly it's a problem?

nah

[haughty badger]

yes. CDR stimms dont line up with the cooldown of Desperado so you only have it for every other use. maybe in time with sample collector, but you gotta be clearing so much shit you dont need Desperado afterward anyway

[fiery tulip]

There’s a really funny modifier that gives you 1 free rocket whenever you kill at least 1 elite with a charge. Basically infinite rockets in Mortis for Scum if you just hit Elites/Specialists lmfao

[manic wolf]

Yer someone mentioned

Sounds very funny

[icy scaffold]

Not to mention flamethrower Psyker

[fiery tulip]

That shit is so busted

[dim moth]

Psyker is infact not to mention because they are known to be overpowered

[manic wolf]

Scum does not have worse damage than Vet...

[dim moth]

For guns yes they do

[manic wolf]

Because guess what? Scum can shoot everything, all the time

[dim moth]

Veteran still has waaaaaaaaaay higher gun damage than scum

Like almost double

[haughty badger]

on lasguns?

[manic wolf]

Moreover, Vet still has to be at least a bit considerate of his positioning, Scum just, well doesnt.

[dim moth]

so can veteran

[manic wolf]

On paper, yes, Vet has higher DPS, but in practice, Scum will do better

[sturdy linden]

why does that scum have zero ranged and melee damage

[dim moth]

oh that guy ragequit

[sturdy linden]

ah

still, shouldn't be zero

[dim moth]

there's the other scum that stuck for the whole mission

he was desperado+dual autopistols

[sturdy linden]

huh even that guy's is zero

something wrong with the tracker

[dim moth]

Power DI hasn't been updated

scums unique weapons are all classified as "nil"

[manic wolf]

PowerDI is not hugely accurate at the moment

[sturdy linden]

ah

[dim moth]

since it hasn't updated to track them yet

but yeah that also helps put into perspective gun vets higher damage compared to gun scum

[sturdy linden]

what weapon was this with

[haughty badger]

is that with lasguns? cause that's the only category of ranged weapons Vet can get the same ranged uptime with

[dim moth]

Mk XIV recon lasgun

[sturdy linden]

brrrrrrrrt

[dim moth]

executioner's stance and MMF (for the stamina)

[icy scaffold]

Not to mention Vet having better team utility, can handle crushers better and all that.

[dim moth]

yeah gun scum is kind of lacking in options to realistically kill large numbers of armored enemies

veteran the humble krak grenade

gun veteran is also far less purely invested into gun than a gun scum is

[manic wolf]

The RPG literally eliminates huge groups of Crushers and a good portion of Scum's melee does too

[dim moth]

yeah but scum's melees don't do that on a gun build

[broken moss]

yea so with sample collector and full CD it's sub 30 seconds. add CDR to your curios and who knows

[dim moth]

and RPGs are ultimtely a limited non-regenerating resource

[manic wolf]

Debatable. You can run Desperado and Adrenaline, an tbh, its pretty fuckin good

[broken moss]

they idea here is that nothing should have anywhere near 100% ranged uptime

[dim moth]

Why is not a problem for veteran to do it when they've been doing it far longer but it is for scum?

Shit veteran does it with a gun that one shots crushers

And somehow shock trooper is never talked about as a problem talent but pickpocket is???

[broken moss]

I've never seen a vet with 100% ranged uptime

[dim moth]

Yeah because vet's tree heavily encourages playing hybrid playstyles

[broken moss]

but vet also s doesn't have daps

[icy scaffold]

Technically, with shivs you can double throwing knife into a heavy on a crushers head to kill it and get your 2 knives back, but that’s one crusher at a time when drowning in crushers and all that

[broken moss]

and scum does not

[dim moth]

So even on a gun vet build I'm still using my melee because I still have points invested into it and am strong in it

[broken moss]

they should fix that

[dim moth]

But like I can infact just shoot forever

[manic wolf]

I get that people are emotionally attached to GunScum, but lying to yourself about it being fine for balance is uhh.. not it

[dim moth]

If I wanted to

I don't think gun scum is fine for balance

I think saying that pickpocket is part of the reason why is stupid

[manic wolf]

Part of it, yes

[dim moth]

Vultures' Dodge and Desperado auto dodge are the big offenders

[broken moss]

it's the single handed largest issue with scum

[manic wolf]

As is the immunity to ranged and Vulture's Dodge

[dim moth]

No it isn't

[broken moss]

it is

[dim moth]

If it's the largest issue on scum then veteran has had that "issue" for far longer and it has never raised a fuss

[manic wolf]

The freeload element of Desperado, and the timer extension are literally the only bits of Gunscum I would keep if I had a say tbh

[broken moss]

infinite ammo for absolutely nothing is a huge issue.

[dim moth]

like really

[haughty badger]

Vet only does it for lasguns and has to invest heavily into it. non-las weapons still have low enough uptime to limit their use cases to target prioritization, increasingly so with the burst power of the weapon (ie. autoguns have better uptime than the boltgun). Scum does it for free with any weapon by grabbing a single node, and for no effort on the players part

[broken moss]

even if all you had was shit guns it would be an issue

[dim moth]

Scum's pickpocket is less "for nothing" than shock trooper is lmao

[manic wolf]

VD, Pickpocket, and immunity to ranged all need to be removed

[dim moth]

Shock trooper just asks that you get a crit

[dim moth]

Yeah shock trooper is kind of stuck at the bottom of a kind of dead side of their tree...oh wait pickpocket is too

weird that

[haughty badger]

you have to invest heavily into crit

[manic wolf]

It doesnt proc on every crit though, just the one at the start of crit chains, so you are still spending ammo most of the time, it is worth pointing that out

[haughty badger]

it's a simple line, but the costs are actually big

[broken moss]

you're proccing if by simply doing what you would always be doing. you'd have to intentionally try NOT to kill elites to run out of ammo

[livid raven]

Real rampage fans don't hate on the desperado

[dim moth]

luckily for veteran that they're one of the 10% base crit classes then huh?

And has effectively free access to almost permanent 25% from reciprocity

[manic wolf]

An like it may not be a lot of ammo, but its still expenditure. Scum is ammo neutral the whole run

[dim moth]

Or have a gun veteran on your team who starves you out of them by killing them all

Which I did infact do by accident to that gun scum in that match I posted the stats for multiple times

[broken moss]

I've never, ever felt oppressed as a melee player before scum release

[dim moth]

Haven't seen many rumbler build ogryns or actually competent psykers then have you?

[haughty badger]

arent they 5%? nonetheless, 10% isnt nearly enough, and neither is 35% when adding reciprocity. you HAVE to take the stamina consuming one for essentially infinite ammo, and the stamina cost on that is huge

[dim moth]

the stamina cost on deadshot is nothing for every las weapon except the recon lasguns

they are the only ones that suffer from it, and you can still work around it

[broken moss]

like yea vet and ogryn can be annoying but it's never been oppressive to me. even flamer psyker is more an annoyance because of what 400 soul blazed enemies do to my screen more than negating my ability to play the game.

[broken moss]

I have a rumblegryn

[haughty badger]

rumbler isnt spammable without losing all your ammo in a minute, and psyker moves slow enough to not be everywhere at once shooting everything for free

[broken moss]

and it's not nearly what scum is. I do still run out of ammo and as such need to be mindful

[manic wolf]

Its not essentially unlimited ammo. Its a lot of free ammo, but not unlimited. As I mentioned a minute or so back, it only procs on the first crit in a crit chain, so there is still ammo expenditure present. There just kinda isnt with Pickpocket

[broken moss]

scum gets to Faceroll it permanently

[dim moth]

I was shooting the entire time

my melee is seven percent of my damage

[manic wolf]

Yes, and on Scum, you can do literally zero melee damage through a run

[dim moth]

not if you want to kill crushers you can't

[manic wolf]

Well you can, it just might take you longer

[dim moth]

even vraks infantry autogun with 30% rending still takes a long time and a lot of accuracy to kill them

[broken moss]

that's still 136k more melee damage than a pickpocket scumbag ever has to think about

[manic wolf]

Yeah

[haughty badger]

alone it's not, I know, but with survivalist included, it's practically infinite. you wont need to shoot less unless you literally never use your melee, which is unlikely considering lasguns dont have usable anti-armor

[dim moth]

Do you know what almost all of that melee damage is?

[manic wolf]

Old Survivalist it would be, not the heavily nerfed version

[dim moth]

It was a mutant waves mission

and I melee'd them because they take higher melee damage

I would do the same even on gun scum

[manic wolf]

But there is still the issue of damage application with Scum vs Vet

[broken moss]

scumbag don't need to. daps melts mutants

and tops off their ammo at the same time!

[dim moth]

it can melt them all it likes it's still slower than one shotting them with melee

[manic wolf]

Scum can just stand in front of an infinite number of incoming shots and never take damage, Vet is tough in Exe, but not immune to incoming fire, erefore, Scum has a much easier time applying their DPS, throw Vulture's Dodge in on top and you can effectively ignore 80% of the game in place of just holding down the trigger

[haughty badger]

no the nerfed version too. I've done the recon lasgun build. I'm a waystalker main, that was the first thing I did

[broken moss]

yea this too

[dim moth]

Nah vet is definitely immune to incoming fire if they've killed like...even 1 or 2 elites/specials in the lkast 10 seconds

[broken moss]

whole thing is borked really

[dim moth]

Or well effectively immune it takes a LOT to die

Scum being actually invincible is a step up in the sense that they don't have to think about it at all

[haughty badger]

naaaaah gunners melt toughness in high difficulties period

[robust minnow]

Ok, so the perk Untouchable.
By it reducing Threat, that means the higher the stacks, the more likely that enemies are going to focus on someone else?

[dim moth]

Gun Veteran you need to kill a few enemies to get that invincibility

[haughty badger]

yeah

[broken moss]

I think 1 gun scum, 2 arbites and 1 bubble psyker would probably invalidate h40

[robust minnow]

Ok.
Is it really that useful then?

[dim moth]

I don't think you understand that gun veteran can easily and practically be regenerating more than 100% toughness a second

Just from shooting gunners

[manic wolf]

They're tough yeah, but examples like Snipers and what not can still cause you to get fucked over due to knockback, a critical mass of Gunners can kill you, etc etc, none of these things apply to Gunscum, they can just stand there pressing W + LMB

[dim moth]

yeah which is the actual balancing pain point of gun scum

being able to ignore mechanics

[haughty badger]

debatable, but imo yes. it only really works when near your teammates though, otherwise you take the aggro anyway

[manic wolf]

I would say its in equal parts tbh

[dim moth]

they should still have to dodge and defend manually

it shouldn't be automatic

[robust minnow]

Ok so distinctly situational.

[manic wolf]

If Pickpocket is to remain in the game, it needs like a 30s ICD and only be procced on melee, but yes, the damage immunity/perma-dodge state both need to get flushed

[dim moth]

Again Shock Trooper gives veteran who has higher gun damage access to literally the same level of infinite ammo

[haughty badger]

not really. in theory yes, but in practice no. even getting that many stacks and most of the elite gunners will already be dead (before the next wave of them of course)

[dim moth]

And that's not a problem for them

[manic wolf]

Shock trooper just gives you free shots. Not refunding your reserves

They are fundamentally different mechanics

[dim moth]

Oh no I'm not running out of ammo in a mildly different way

Cool

And vets would be better by that argument because shock trooper means they don't have to reload as often

[icy scaffold]

That’s such a minor technicality ngl

[robust minnow]

Switching back to Bone Saw so I'm putting the point from Coated Weaponry into something else, if I don't need Untouchable I'm taking the better dodge regen perk along with the 10% stamina on dodge perks.

[manic wolf]

Not really, DAP's are a thing, but ya know, I get people enjoy how braindead Ranged Scum is and dont want it to be nerfed, but it damn well needs to be

[robust minnow]

Actually- does the perk Punching Above One's Weight also include chem toxin damage?

[brittle sierra]

does hyperviolence also take into consideration crit damage?

[haughty badger]

untouchable is still good it's just playstyle preference. gives you more opportunity to use your ranged in melee combat

[broken moss]

I use coated weaponry on mine

I think it's crucial

[dim moth]

Now this may surprise you

[haughty badger]

all damage

[dim moth]

But I do not play ranged scum

Because it's not as fun to me as gun veteran lmao

[broken moss]

whole point of the saw is to build stacks quickly

[brittle sierra]

🤯

[dim moth]

So I play what scum does differently instead

[manic wolf]

Its a flat damage boost, 25% of overkill is added to the stack, so it also gets added to crits

(Dont fall into the Hypercritical trap though)

[dim moth]

And I do agree that ranged scum is too strong

I just am telling you that pickpocket is not the reason why

[manic wolf]

I didnt say its the sole reason, its a cumalitave effect

[haughty badger]

not sure anyone is saying pickpocket is particularly op, mostly that it's braindead

[manic wolf]

There are just too many things adding to its current power level

[dim moth]

I really do not think pickpocket is a serious consideration in gun scum being too strong

[winter galleon]

pickpocket worth on melee scum? feels bad giving up hyperviolence to take hypercritical to path to it

[manic wolf]

If it had an ICD, then it wouldnt be, but it doesnt

[dim moth]

The automatic dodging is by far the biggest offender to their strength since it lets them be mindlessly aggressive in ways nobody else can

[manic wolf]

Do not take Pickpocket or Hypercritical on a melee build, thats superflous point expenditure

[tight musk]

Do you shoot your gun enough to have to take pickpocket on a melee build?

[manic wolf]

Especially dont give up Hyperviolence for them

[haughty badger]

pickpocket makes you ranged. I wouldnt take it. take the ammo aura or desperado if you want more ranged uptime with a melee focused build

[dim moth]

Especially when combined with all the mobility you get

[hasty agate]

Is there any reason to run opportunist on the crowbar instead of superiority?

[zealous ravine]

superiority did really well for me so prolly not

[idle ore]

pickpocket is nice on melee scum

its just one extra point

[glacial gyro]

Riposte precog for shivs?

[tribal apex]

what are some of the better weapons for desperado beyond the dual uzis/dual pistols? braced autogun works?

[glacial gyro]

graia brauto, vraks iag

[kind mist]

Explosive bolt pistol

[idle ore]

bolt pistol, shredder

[glacial gyro]

Honestly, anything can work with desperado

its just that good

you can run the double barrel with it easy

[broken moss]

running the same stimms, same tree with a couple changes that benefit the saw over the shivs, dropping into meat grinder with no buffs and just immediately popping everything and hitting it. cleaver is doing way more single target dps than shivs. and ive repeated it several times to confirm

just spamming lights

[glacial gyro]

You mean saw?

[broken moss]

no i meant cleaver. cuz its the same thing and you know what i meant

[glacial gyro]

also yeah saw ramps up damage on bigger targets due to toxin damage

[broken moss]

at any rate even with heavy spam the shivs doin about the same

but i do have a high crit shiv build with toxin on crit

[glacial gyro]

its aggravating because I kind of hate the shivs but they're literally one of the best weapons in the game

[broken moss]

i think they demo hordes a fair bit better. but if you invest in cleave for the saw it deals with hordes pretty damn well

[glacial gyro]

decimator shock and awe, it eats hordes easily

[broken moss]

yea

or just go double cleave

im not sure if decimator is actually affecting toxin damage

[zenith pagoda]

Viag is best imo

[dim moth]

doesn't

decimator strength only affects the weapon damage

[zenith pagoda]

Huh?

[broken moss]

in which case double cleave better

[dim moth]

what

[broken moss]

but ill have to test and confirm how much loss to raw hit

[zenith pagoda]

Since when?

Is that a bug?

I thought all strength blessings affect everything

[tribal apex]

just tried brauto after like 25 straight games of nothing but uzi, man does this feel comically janky

I'm spoiled

[broken moss]

im no expert on the matter, but that little bit of loss certainly doesnt reflect the kind of dip id epect from losing 50% of my tox damage

[mighty belfry]

It's specifically coded as melee strength

It's dumb I know.

I thought it worked like that with my shovel dB build

[zenith pagoda]

Are there any other blessings that do that? Or just decimator?

[broken moss]

peak cleaver build

nevermind the level 3 unyielding

[undone sorrel]

Thats basically the same as what i use on it

Ik some people have vouched for the uhhh

[broken moss]

yea i been rockin this since launch

[undone sorrel]

Strength increase one that acts like wrath

Forget the name

[broken moss]

95 attack damage doesnt seem like its worth investing into

[undone sorrel]

But cleave is the only thing keeping this weapon from being on wellfare

[broken moss]

?

this thing does insane damage

especially single target

[undone sorrel]

On rampage builds or just in general?

[sturdy linden]

Shock and Awe + Battering Strikes is enough

[sturdy linden]

you don't need Rampage to do great damage with the saw

[sturdy linden]

finally, one more person not falling for anti-saw propaganda

[broken moss]

im using rampage. i dont think this is a good sidearm for a gun build unless u just want to use it for the brittle

[broken moss]

always been a saw fan

[sturdy linden]

it's pretty good on a crate build too, just need crit and cleave

[undone sorrel]

Oh nah i havent used it as a sidearm on gun builds, mainly been using it on right side of the tree builds tbh

Middle capstone or right capstone

Havent used it with rampage yet though

[sturdy linden]

Saw + Adrenaline is pretty cracked

I wouldn't use Rampage with it personally because IMO there's better weapons to Rampage with, but crate + adrenaline Saw goes hard

[undone sorrel]

Mostly since it just doesnt feel good to use, very clunky animations/handling, doesnt really do all too much against most enemies

[last kelp]

Is revive speed worth it on curios

[sturdy linden]

yeah

[undone sorrel]

Have used that, just didnt feel good at all

[sturdy linden]

applies to revive as well as assisting teammates off ledges / out of nets

[undone sorrel]

Idk maybe im not comboing correctly or something

[last kelp]

it really doesnt feel like its making things faster

[undone sorrel]

My go to curio spread is usually just like

Toughness x3, gunner res x2, sniper res x1, and whatever revive speed or sprint bs i feel like

Dont think scum is in dire need of action skill cooldown on curios

[main wagon]

The revive speed stacker literally pulling the net off in the amount of time it takes the camera to zoom out

[undone sorrel]

Since you can just bring cooldown stim

[main wagon]

It’s so based

[glacial gyro]

we run triple revive speed in this house

[sturdy linden]

yeah it's really helpful in fubar situations

[undone sorrel]

Revive speed is super nice though

[forest escarp]

i like x3 combat ability regen on desperado because every millisecond i'm not in desperado is a millisecond where i am sad

[undone sorrel]

Since scum kinda has issues standing in a single place for more than 1.2 seconds

Paper thin

[undone sorrel]

[sturdy linden]

your stim can do that job with 50x effectiveness

[undone sorrel]

Okay but

Attack speed

[lapis raft]

the attack speed branch isnt even that good ngl

[undone sorrel]

Attack speed feela hilarious on desperado builds

[glacial gyro]

is 400 fake 3 stam?

[sturdy linden]

idk Desperado + stimm is complete overkill IMO. Using them in rotation so that one cools down the other is far more efficient.

[forest escarp]

obviously i am also running cdr stim
i will have my cake and eat it too
and wtf else do i need? i am immune to ranged fire

[sturdy linden]

yes sadly

[broken moss]

i think it performs better with adrenaline

[sturdy linden]

410 is the breakpoint

[broken moss]

attack speed and cleave are what it needs. i tried chem dep with it and it just dont work so good

[astral sundial]

Whats the most efficient way to farm plasteel and diamantine?

After upgrading a bunch i now am broke

XDD

[forest escarp]

probably grinding regular aurics

[undone sorrel]

If you havent already, do the event

Idk if the event is still here though

[astral sundial]

Thats already done sadly XD

[glacial gyro]

damnations

or mortis trials, those give a ton

[undone sorrel]

I find in aurics people tend to just rush from point A to B

[astral sundial]

Oh right. Mortis trials were a thing

That sounds like a good plan

Ty

[glacial gyro]

Also, do your havoc assignment

once a week, several thousand plasteel

[limber cradle]

Mortis trials are slow to farm ime

Especially for dia

[glacial gyro]

People run out of dia?

[astral sundial]

Oh yeah i havnt dared to go into havocs yet lol. From what I see on both reddit and in the chats here sometimes people seem rather.... elitist. And I dont quite like to bother with that kind of player.

[limber cradle]

Im just saying I got like 200 dia for running a mortis trial on auric

[glacial gyro]

Just list your own assignment

[icy scaffold]

Bolt Pistol is pretty fun too. Lethal Proximity and then just watch the hordes of enemies disappear

[limber cradle]

Havoc 1-10 is piss easy and enough to get you crates

10-20 ain't too bad either

[sturdy linden]

and crit

don't forget crit

[hasty agate]

Does lethal proximity only work if the gun is in your hand? Or does it work in the background?

[main wagon]

If you’re desperate Damnation/Twins + 1 Weekly Havoc reward

Practical method is Damnation/Auric matches. Mortis gives less rewards and IIRC Auric is just Damnation with perma high intensity

[steel briar]

🗣️ Greetings fellow Scum.

[main wagon]

Twins (without skip) has no pickups the entire mission, then everything in crates so you know you aren’t missing anything

You just have to be fine with potentially carrying the fight lmao

[steel briar]

@main wagon

[main wagon]

THERE’S NO FLAYVAH, WIVVOUT SPORT

[steel briar]

[limber cradle]

Where you spending two points in this tree?

Open question for scum chat

[main wagon]

Slide dodge in middle right and uh attack speed bottom left

[limber cradle]

Why attack speed?

[main wagon]

Stam curio boosts it by even more

I get anxiety from a single push attack taking over half my stam so I crutch the +3

[limber cradle]

I see

Tbh I'm really heavily debating stam back on dodge+extra gun dodge

[icy scaffold]

It works on your blitzes. So extra big blinders and rockets. (It doesn’t effect the chem nade pool)

[forest escarp]

like the wind and slippery customer would help shore up survivability a lot

i guess you could argue like the wind isnt necessary for desperado but its just so nice

[limber cradle]

Remind me what like the wind is?

[main wagon]

I also personally prefer Ruffian over Anarch just because in my goblin brain a consistent 10% melee damage is more favorable to a 5% chance for something to happen

[limber cradle]

Thanks

[hasty agate]

Yeah, but does it work when I have my melee out and not the gun the blessing is on.

[limber cradle]

Tbh I find I'm not actually sliding a lot

[main wagon]

I forget what’s the second desperado node do?

[limber cradle]

5 seconds off CD for murder

[icy scaffold]

Oh good question

[sturdy linden]

Yes

[limber cradle]

Tbh I could try like the wind instead of extra gun dodge

[hasty agate]

15% magazine size if you run vraks or dual autos.

[somber shard]

Does hivescum have a node that gives teammates ammo?

[limber cradle]

Extra stam in dodge feels like QoL

[limber cradle]

Aura, left side

[limber cradle]

My logic is the build is so crit heavy I like the extra 5 percent chance

[main wagon]

Personally don’t recommend this

[somber shard]

Sweet, I’ve been noticing sometimes I have more ammo than when I last checked lol

[limber cradle]

I don't find it truly helps tbh

[main wagon]

It’s 9 rounds and your reload speed is already insane

[limber cradle]

Thats my experience

[main wagon]

60 rounds to 69 (nice)

[limber cradle]

Its an extra 9 rounds and I run speedloader+reload speed talent

[somber shard]

Shoot it twice 😈

[limber cradle]

+technically it stacks unload slower

And blaze away

Bigger mag which means you don't stack damage and strength every 6 rounds iirc

I think imma do LtW and Slippery first

Ik i already like slippery

[hasty agate]

Tdr on reload or an extra dodge with ranged weapon would be my 2 picks then if you don’t want the mag size

[limber cradle]

I like extra dodge on gun

TDR on reload never felt valuable to me

[hasty agate]

Chem fortified is better than tdr on reload but you went with vultures mark so tdr on reload is not a bad pick.

[mighty belfry]

I feel Like the Wind is more for melee builds tbh

[limber cradle]

My default rn is extra gun dodge+stamina on dodge

To use jittery more

[hasty agate]

In my experience, I stopped using the extra dodge and just take jittery now. The dodge recovery is more powerful than the extra dodge if you have to pick one or the other but both is very good.

[limber cradle]

Tbh I don't feel like i explicitly need anything

Its why I'm polling you guys

[hasty agate]

Lots of options for those two points if your baseline is comfortable.

[limber cradle]

Thats what I'm saying

My only other option i want to do is to rip out like 3 extra points

Hit up chem nades and stimm regen

[hasty agate]

I run my ranged build way more stripped down than yours and go dependency instead of vultures though. Have you tried it that way yet?

[limber cradle]

I hate dep tbh

[hasty agate]

It’s actually a really powerful keystone.

[limber cradle]

Didn't say it was bad

Just said I hate it

[charred bronze]

Second one today. Infuriating.

[severe stratus]

dude manstopper flechette double barrel goes absolutely crazy

[limber cradle]

Yes it do

[dim moth]

Weirdly I found Deathspitter more reliable than flechette for scum

[charred bronze]

Okay, I found something I loathe about the needler. Getting trapped in the reload animation is the fucking worst

[severe stratus]

i like the bleed for the horde clear.. haven't tested higher than h18 yet tho so i may enjoy the upfront damage better later on

honestly the bleed is just cherry on top. being able to shoot it willy nilly is definitely quite good in itself

[glacial gyro]

man I don't get it, why do space marines bother with bolters when they could use two mac-10s

[severe stratus]

im honestly pretty sad that revolver seems to not.. really.. be much better on hive than it is on veteran

[glacial gyro]

its a sidearm for popping specials

on a melee build

[severe stratus]

maybe but i want to play it as a handcannon 1st option 😞

[low harbor]

it's not as good as on vet

cuz u can't refill it like vet does

[severe stratus]

the reload speed is just too slow to make desperado useful

imo

[glacial gyro]

I think anything without speedload or a just naturally fast reload isn't as good

[broken moss]

the year is 40,000. and we no longer have revolver speed loaders.

[glacial gyro]

I mean, in the year 40k we have lost a LOT of shit

[low harbor]

we do tho

[broken moss]

we have plasma guns and explosive bolters. but no speed loaders

[drifting heron]

We do though

[low harbor]

we do tho

it's in the game

[drifting heron]

Have you never used agrivolver

[broken moss]

so why the fuck doesnt the stub revolver have a speed loader

[drifting heron]

It does

[glacial gyro]

also I wouldn't be surprised of some techpriest has declared speedloaders heretical to the omnissiah because you must praise each bullet as it is loaded and a speedloader skips the proper reverence

[low harbor]

gameplay balance

[drifting heron]

Just not zarona

[broken moss]

k so the only one that was worth the development time doesnt have one, and its the one that needs one

seriously i get balance but i do think its a bit much

[drifting heron]

The zarona reload is fine

[broken moss]

been trying to like it myself. but yea, reloads are painful

[glacial gyro]

the fan the hammer cowboy revolver is actually not bad on scum

[severe stratus]

zarona reload is the only thing that balances it

[astral sundial]

Is vultures push fixed btw?

[severe stratus]

it's a delete button

[broken moss]

and its 5 rounds before needing a reload. but it could lose some of that speed and still be fine

[drifting heron]

If you have trouble with the zarona reload
Aim better
Reload single rounds more often
Just leave action to reload

[drifting heron]

5 rounds is 5 specials

Or 10

Depends on how fucked you are

[broken moss]

thats the thing though. im a melee build and i feel like between lining up shots and then reloading a couple rounds it takes ages to get back to melee

5 specials is kind of a joke even in auric

ijs

its not like im "clearing the field" by wiping it of 5 people

[drifting heron]

Then use needler

[glacial gyro]

Here, try the agrivolver with this

[broken moss]

thats usually what ends up happening, yea

or the twin stubs

[drifting heron]

Or use agrivovler

[glacial gyro]

the aim counts as bracing so its actually quite accurate

[severe stratus]

on hive yeah i dont think revolver is that good. it's serviceable but you're playing melee hive

[lapis raft]

tbh revolver is basically tailor made for veteran so it makes sense that its better there than on scum

[severe stratus]

oh that's true hmm

[mighty belfry]

Manstopper scattershot

[glacial gyro]

its high newn

[broken moss]

perhaps.

[lapis raft]

like you cant ask for better synergy with a gun than on veteran with revolver

[drifting heron]

Double barrel

[broken moss]

i dont know vet all that well. not sure why that would do well on him

[drifting heron]

Weapon spec

[mighty belfry]

Shovel double barrel is the real vet meta

[drifting heron]

And ranged juicing

[lapis raft]

yea weapon specialist never reload ez crit ez damage

[glacial gyro]

stance arb with double barrel

[low harbor]

guaranteed ranged crit every 3 melee kills

[mighty belfry]

Dueling sword plasma gun? 😴

He who posts the skull emoji, does not understand the truth.

[drifting heron]

Shovel dbarrel on its way to give fucking purg psyker a run for its money

[low harbor]

DB on vet is basically
u beat psyker's "infinite cleave" by playing infinite cleave

[lost bear]

The Canadian Trench Raider

Still waiting for a knuckleduster knife skin

[mighty belfry]

Admittedly, knife and dueling sword can work with that build too

But.

[lapis raft]

yea double barrel sounds pretty fun with specialist too ngl

[mighty belfry]

It's not as fun.

[low harbor]

knife is best with it

[lapis raft]

knife is always fun

[low harbor]

but knife is cringe

so is DS

so is shovel tbh, uncanny stick

[drifting heron]

Cutlass

Nerf yourself

[lost bear]

WS guarantees crits after ~3 melee kills, on crit you have infinite cleave with Manstopper and you drop 6 stacks of bleed kn anything downrange with Flechette

[mighty belfry]

It is the one thing it has to have any kind of relevancy. Leave it alone!

[low harbor]

maybe falchion will be gud after 3 consecutive buffs in 2026 that all miss the point

we cope

[mighty belfry]

I wish it didn't have to ride or die on uncanny so hard

[drifting heron]

Tac axe my beloved

[lost bear]

In hyper dense spawns, going "fuck this area and anything in it" scales wonderfully

[glacial gyro]

Revolver gets speedload doesn't it? That automatically makes it desperado material

[low harbor]

no, kill uncanny strike

uncanny strike should be 20% at 5 stacks maximum

and also melee_rending

[lost bear]

Yeah having it affect bleed is what

[low harbor]

weapons should have better baseline ADMs

[manic wolf]

It does get Speedload, but its still a round by round reload, not good with Desperado, unless you mean the Cowboy revolver, but then you're playing reload simulator

[glacial gyro]

Now I'm curious how fast I can make it go.

[manic wolf]

Not enough to warrant it im afraid

[lost bear]

Shiv can go without Uncanny IME

The base Cara ADM is high enough to be workable

Notably, both Precog and Uncanny are nerfed on it

[mighty belfry]

Uncanny even at 40% is dumb strong

[jade elm]

What is "Cartel special"?

[limber cradle]

Its when you use a stimm

[woeful hill]

scum stims

[limber cradle]

So if a penance says cartel special it means "under the effect of your stimm"

[jade elm]

fatshark making penance descriptions as ambiguous as possible

[woeful hill]

[glacial gyro]

You're nuts, this thing fucks

[lost bear]

It is, and they could get away with making it 40% because of the base ADM

[glacial gyro]

Ill have to try it out in a real game but god damn

[jagged radish]

Uzi blessings?

[lost bear]

Riposte + Flesh Tearer and Riposte + Precog both valid shiv tech

[limber cradle]

Speedloader+Blaze Away or Pinning Fire ime

[jade elm]

Also, I see for chemical dependency you get a stack when you use a stim, so how are you supposed to get max stacks?

[limber cradle]

Keep using stimms

[glacial gyro]

speedload blaze

[limber cradle]

Either via sample collector or low viscosity

[jagged radish]

[lapis raft]

tried saw a bit with stimm supply and chem dep did not felt as horrible as i remember when i first tried it

[icy scaffold]

Chem dependency is peak

[cold wind]

I was wondering about that

[untold garden]

i also personally enjoy the added safety of Inspiring Barrage on the Uzis

[lost bear]

For what

Ranged Scum brings its own safety

Melee Scum sure

[limber cradle]

Well, now you know

[limber cradle]

Melee scum feels survivable ironically enough in the same way arb does

If I keep swinging my melee my toughness stays at 100 percent

[icy scaffold]

Helps that you swing a morbillion times per second

[limber cradle]

Yeah exactly

[lost bear]

https://tenor.com/view/kenshiro-hokuto-no-ken-atatatatatatata-fist-of-the-north-star-gif-20941178

[limber cradle]

Dynamite isn't a martial art

[lost bear]

Grid square deletion is a martial art 😒

[grave venture]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-satan-sparking-zero-dragon-ball-dynamite-kick-dragonball-gif-16907958675871781233

I beg to differ

[mighty belfry]

Almost as though.

They're testing something...

[glacial gyro]

Poor mr satan, imagine reaching the peak of human capability only to find out there is this squad of demigods who could kill you with harsh language

[lost bear]

Big visible number feel gooderer though

[grave venture]

Exactly, must suck being around beings so weak compared to him

[glacial gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-youre-goddamn-right-gif-14600753

[lost bear]

Not many people I know go into the weapon damage profile, let alone figure out Finesse mods

[mighty belfry]

Really though, maybe huffing severe copium in my stimms here but it would be nice to see a weapon balance overhaul where weapons generally have more forgiving ADMs in exchange for rending values being nerfed across the board

[grave venture]

https://tenor.com/view/dbz-cell-punch-strong-mr-satan-gif-3710662

[glacial gyro]

lmao

[lost bear]

Also, if it's a weapon that can fire most of the game, maybe it shouldn't get access to rending in the tree or the blessings

[limber cradle]

Tbh a raw rending node like vets would go fuckin insane with the macs

[lost bear]

Yep

[dim moth]

+5% rending minor node

[limber cradle]

Even that would be enough tbh

[lost bear]

HS also has remarkably little tax nodes

[limber cradle]

Hive scum only feels stretched for talent points if I wanna try to force a bunch of the right side talents into builds

I dont think I've ever sat on a class and gone "yeah I genuinely don't even know what to spend my last 2 points on"

[manic wolf]

If you say so, I found Revo to just be reload simulator

[novel oracle]

i kinda disagree

[limber cradle]

Idk man, compared to what I'm used to(vet) it does

[versed viper]

Are stacks for bleed and chem toxin not applying correctly on knives at the moment?

[dim moth]

They work for me bleed just doesn't appear visually

[trim wind]

Working as far as I'm aware

[ancient basin]

hipfire revolver with crucian roulette, hand cannon, and the 30% reload talent works decent on non desperado builds. On desperado its tricky to utilize into hordes due to a lack of overpenetration and longer reloads compared to the other high fire rate options (vraks autogun, autopistol, and dual autopistols)

[versed viper]

Ah okay thanks dood

[novel oracle]

like these two spots are the biggest pain points depending on your build

[limber cradle]

Tbh

I default to unload

I think VD has a lot of weird nodes in it but they're not exactly tax to me

[novel oracle]

like say you want pickpocket on a melee build (aka i hate you)
your 2 options are clip size, which is almost completely pointless for you cuz youre still heavily leaning into melee and that point coulda been spent on something melee related
or hyper crit which now fucks over your hyper violence

[limber cradle]

I don't run pp on a melee build personally so I don't consider it tax ig

[novel oracle]

if you want sample collector and arent leaning into tox stuff, you have to take coherency or +1 blitz, which if youre taking blinders neither is even a good option

[limber cradle]

I'm not spending like 5 points to get to infinite ammo on a build I'm swinging a melee around with

[novel oracle]

if you ARE leaning into tox stuff, and arent running a crit weapon, you run into a similar situation with crit toxin

[limber cradle]

This i do agree with

I want like 5 points of shit out of the chem side

On everything

[novel oracle]

if you are going crit toxin + base toxin and oyu dont have blinders, you still have to take +1 blitz which isnt the worst thing in the world but maybe youre not someone who uses blitzes often enough to even justify it

[limber cradle]

Tbh

[novel oracle]

also if you want hive city brawler after the tree change, you have to take niche talents or elite damage which (at least in my opinion) is a luxury when your build is complete and have points left over

[limber cradle]

My logic on +1 blitz is I've never thought "damn I wish I didn't have another nade" and I have commonly thought "damn I wish I had another grenade"

[main wagon]

Desperado rending node + rending stim gives your DAPs 7.62 rounds for a short time

[novel oracle]

my logic is "damn i wish i had that last point somewhere else"

[main wagon]

Pretty fun

[limber cradle]

15 percent elite damage feels weird to me cause like, Macs aren't exactly gleaning a lot from it ime?

[novel oracle]

stuff like that is why its more a luxury

we're not vet

our weapons arent hinging nearly as much on breakpoints

[limber cradle]

Idk, when I have tox blinders I'm a little throw happy so I like the extra nades

[limber cradle]

Yeah, weight of fire>quality of fire

Although talking about this is making me think of something

So ty

[novel oracle]

if you have the option between more damage and some QoL that bolsters your how your build works, you should typically choose the 2nd

losing a tiny bit of damage in echange for everything just working better is very worth it

[limber cradle]

Tbh

I think I'm dropping HCB and Elite damage to take Tox Nades and maybe Samp Collector

[novel oracle]

though ig it doesnt really matter cuz its not something we'd even be thinking about, elite damage to hcb, if we didnt have the previous version of the tree to begin with

[limber cradle]

Tbh?

Like really honest

I kinda prefer old tree

[novel oracle]

theres some things i liked more, like the trinity down at the bottom

[limber cradle]

Thats how I feel about it too

[novel oracle]

if one of those two nodes stayed there id have really liked that

[limber cradle]

I think same

Cause I didnt originally run elite damage