hivescum-class

[ripe seal]

since i'mgetting alot of times where my stim is only around 90% when my dependancy is about to tick down since I run the 4 stack version, and if it turns out the icon is bugged, than i'm running out of stacks when I shouldn't, especially when my amount of depenadncy is low

[low harbor]

it's not that much given that team comps with hvs prob look like psyker + vet (survivalist) + hvs + frontliner, in which case 2 people won't care abt ammo, the 1 vet won't need much if they're competent (unless they run smth like boltgun)

[plucky nymph]

most of my h40s ppl just run random shiyte so it just depends on team, i agree, if ppl need

[sullen ridge]

wtf why are they swapped between genders

actually unplayable

[novel oracle]

when someone picks up ammo
10% of that ammos value is given to everyone in coherency
meaning that you can each ammo pickup has the potential to be 140% of its value when picked up

[sullen ridge]

effectively only like 120% cause only two people care about ammo

ideally

[novel oracle]

in havoc specifically, an ammo crate only fills half of your reserves
if everyone takes a hit of it while standing next to it, everyone gets 50% + 4(5%) ammo

resulting in that crate giving everyone 70% ammo

[mighty belfry]

I feel like Gunslinger being useful is quite dependent on the team setup

[novel oracle]

thats SIGNIFICANTLY better in an environment where ammo is more of a concern

[sullen ridge]

i think the 5% crit bonus would save more ammo, if they're starving for shots they can take their own talents

[dense hollow]

crits don't really do much to most weapons

[novel oracle]

5% crit is pretty mid for most weapons

like only 2 weapons in the entire game would ever consider a 5% crit chance perk for example

[sullen ridge]

one crit for hive scum shoots through like 10 poxwalkers and a trapper, i find myself clearing my horde and the zealot's horde just by spamming crit stubs

[novel oracle]

also youll probably be much happier taking gunslinger when pickpocket is inevitably nerfed

[sullen ridge]

saving ammo in the long run

idk hard to quantify, i just dont feel like i get a lotta value out of it

😭 sorry im trying to optimize desperado its so fun

[novel oracle]

yeah its kinda whatever on a ranged scum build cuz pickpocket just
exists

but your only option is 5% crit that will buff that so like

at a certain point you might as well just give whatever your team might need

[tardy cedar]

Any good stimm pack builds yet?

[mighty belfry]

Yeah I 100% cannot imagine pickpocket staying the same

[sullen ridge]

wait uhhh do crits contribute to armor pentration

[novel oracle]

they do

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

[sullen ridge]

would i do better replacing +25% flak damage with critmaxxing

ohh ty

[novel oracle]

significantly more for crit weapons or weapons bad at armor

youll see less of an effect on flak

cuz flak already kinda takes okay or better damage from everything

[tardy cedar]

Mr Cole I have used 3 of your builds but I wish to procure a stimmpack build pls thank you for your attention to this matter

[sullen ridge]

the stubs are so farking good they shred everything but crushers

[novel oracle]

i spit at the stim pack

[bronze glade]

stubs are kinda shit

[sullen ridge]

i dont get why everyone thinks they're bad

even mr e said they're mid

[bronze glade]

oh god

[low harbor]

ADM-wise, no (unless hand cannon)
but crits are usually coded to be better into armor

[bronze glade]

i agree with mr e

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-gif-19730757

[low harbor]

the dual 1911s?

[novel oracle]

i dont really have a good build for chem crate
i could make one but it wouldnt be really tested, ive not used chem crate since they fixed chem dep

[sullen ridge]

i think being able to penetrate poxwalkers really makes them shine ive never had to use a melee to clear crowds, and can jump to shoot snipers even through a few zombos

[bronze glade]

yeah

[low harbor]

dual 1911s are kinda specifically made for havoc's health pool

for auric their breakpoints are ass lol

[bronze glade]

half a mag for one flamer?

[low harbor]

no

[tardy cedar]

Sir, this is an Executive Order from the President of the United States of America. We can't let China create a chem crate build before we do. It is vital to our National Security. THANK YOU for your attention in this matter.

[low harbor]

u 2~3 tap

[mighty belfry]

WAT

[low harbor]

in a game mode where guns that normally 1 tap need 2

[mighty belfry]

HOW ARE YOU TAKING HALF A MAG

[bronze glade]

it's due to something called ||hyperbole||

[low harbor]

I think the dual 1911s can use sum buffs tho

the spin shots need help

straight up

[mighty belfry]

Really though like if there is one thing I like a lot about the stubs, it's the fact that they're surprisingly good at specialist killing

that being said

Maybe some extra cleave and yeah the spin shots just kinda suck

[sullen ridge]

the real agonizing choice is desperado vs speedload

[mighty belfry]

stubs really do not need speedload

The reload is really fast as is.

[low harbor]

the main advantage they have over boltpistol is that
unlike boltpistol, they shoot relatively straight with minimal recoil
and they can cleave some horde units

[sullen ridge]

counterpoint reloading feels like hot ass and kills my buzz

[low harbor]

run&gun + sustained fire imo

[mighty belfry]

Honestly if you need that help, might as well just take the node on the tree instead

[sullen ridge]

only 4 shots tho then u gotta wait for it to reset

[mighty belfry]

The reset barely matters if I'll be real

[low harbor]

yea but u usually fire 4 shot bursts at specials with it anyway

[sullen ridge]

true i think im just scared of more micromanaging

[mighty belfry]

Just stop clicking at the fourth shot, and even the slightest delay resets it

[low harbor]

like

if u need more than 4 shots to kill a special with it

[low harbor]

smth has gone horribly wrong

also spin shots are insane gambling

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1185515538475134998/1448581898925248614/6489301.MP4?ex=693dc2c6&is=693c7146&hm=ca6cc202cf54629d0eec5e1fac679db888a826394e528f48d2e73dff5cb1a0e1&

when it works u nail a sniper 50m away randomly

when it doesn't work u hit a scab gunner in the head for 1608

[mighty belfry]

Personally.

The shots should be honing

Just straight up go full Wanted with the stubs

[low harbor]

I like the concept of the spin shots but they need help

[mighty belfry]

I know this won't happen but I can dream.

[low harbor]

the dmg is not there for how slow it is to shoot

and how long the pre-fire spin delay is

[mighty belfry]

It's also kinda awkward to even shoot at all sometimes.

[sullen ridge]

ooh how bout curios

full stamina?

[mighty belfry]

I have gone the way of full stamina

[novel oracle]

probably something like this
maybe needlepistol and saw or something to for toxin everywhere to get your stim back faster
could do a long strong stim and rely heavily on sample collecter or a weak stim to use crates way more without relying on stims

chem dep is mostly there just for raw stats for free cuz the core part is fuckin whatever

[sullen ridge]

• 15% toughness, 12% ability regen, and 45% sprint efficiency though that will probably be bomber resistance

[novel oracle]

if you want to put those points elsewhere or in adrenaline then whatever

[mighty belfry]

I would strongly suggest gunner resistance

[low harbor]

hp + tgh + stam, perks u decide
just like vet tbh

[novel oracle]

sprint efficiency??

[sullen ridge]

i just took off gunner res

[novel oracle]

why

[sullen ridge]

to try sprint efficiency

but i never run out of stamina on guns so its worthless

[novel oracle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1447795332225306736/togif.gif

[mighty belfry]

Specifically because gunners are technically a means of gaining toughness

[sullen ridge]

ooh

true

very wise

[mighty belfry]

So you want the resistance to offset the damage to get as much uptime on Tis But a Scratch as possible

Really gunner resistance is kind of a given on most classes in general but Hive Scum particularly has a reason for it.

[novel oracle]

and also cuz gunners can fuck you up if your not careful especially on scum

[manic wolf]

Gunners are bitches

[tropic crag]

yeah i run at least one gunner resist on scum

[manic wolf]

Hiding back there spamming autolas

Cowards

[low harbor]

as long as u don't run desperado/vulture's dodge, gunner resist for hvs is kinda invaluable

stretches out tis but a scratch's value way more

[manic wolf]

Yeup

Compounded further by HCB too

[abstract lichen]

Sprinting when you can just crab dodge

[limber cradle]

The .45s are carried entirely by the fact theyre the coolest option

they may be the worst, but they feel the best.

[drifting heron]

They are objectively the shit

Fixing crit bonus gave them spin shot 1 taps on so many things with desperado build

[limber cradle]

They did what now

[drifting heron]

Gunners and flamers

You can now spin shot 1 tap

[limber cradle]

They one tap gunners to the head in what diff?

[drifting heron]

Shortish range but still sexy

[drifting heron]

Auric

[sturdy linden]

I tried to like the pistols but I failed

[limber cradle]

With/without the headshot perk?

[drifting heron]

Idk

[sturdy linden]

very cool, feel terrible

[drifting heron]

I'm not at liberty to send my build

Go try it yourself

[limber cradle]

They're my favorite ranged weapon in the game

Because they're cool

I'm not asking for your build

I'm asking if they require the headshot perk for it

[drifting heron]

I don't know

[limber cradle]

Alright

I believe you this time

[drifting heron]

Go psyk test it if you're doubtful

[abstract lichen]

Does it need to crit

[limber cradle]

I just distinctly remember them not doing that irregardless of how much I tried to make them do it

[main wagon]

Not another one please

I just want my toughness curio

[ancient basin]

they should have blessings that activate on special action

[limber cradle]

How many do you have

[main wagon]

EIGHT

[limber cradle]

Haymaker but its for gun spins and it works on ogryn

[limber cradle]

Buddy you could sell 5 of those

[main wagon]

I like to collect them like snowglobes

[limber cradle]

Good to have passions

[main wagon]

Like this steaming pile of garbage

[sturdy linden]

I have 2 17% toughness but no +3 stam

I just want stam

[main wagon]

Add player trading pls

[sturdy linden]

real

[main wagon]

I can be Santa Claus for newbies

[sturdy linden]

I'm not newbie but curio fishing has to be the least enjoyable thing in this game

[ancient basin]

or make the spin like the heavy sword, increasing attack speed after it is used for the next 4 shots

[heavy swan]

Whats the difference?

i never noticed the mk3

[drifting heron]

One does more stacks on headshot

[drifting heron]

And there is no mk3

[ancient basin]

mk6 causes an explosion on alt fire kill, only staggers, mk2 causes alt fire to spread 1 toxin stack to adjacent targets on kill

[heavy swan]

cool

[heavy swan]

my dyslexic ass counted too many I's

[ancient basin]

mk2 is the standard most go for, it has more use cases as the mk6 stagger on kill into hordes is niche at best

[heavy swan]

makes sense

[bronze glade]

i use mk6

[heavy swan]

lot more tox related talents than stagger ones

[sturdy linden]

mk6 is better for sniping

[bronze glade]

don't need the alt fire

[ancient basin]

the primary fire is fantastic on both, so you can use whatever

[bronze glade]

mk6 has better primary fire

[ancient basin]

more stacks per shot?

[bronze glade]

on headshot and crit

[heavy swan]

ive decided to be a lil silly and use the "cleave" on headshot blessing

[sturdy linden]

More stacks on weakspot and/or crit

[ancient basin]

fair enough

[atomic oyster]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a094d206-e842-43d1-bc22-e2db66e61520/havoc-40-boss-killa-double-dookie-hive-scoom my mlg build

[heavy swan]

oh crits also add more stacks?

groovy

[ancient basin]

with pick pocket I just mag dump a boss or crusher and still get the kill

no aim, just hip fire vibes

it is amazing for bosses because its set and forget

mag dump, do whatever, mag dump again boss usually dies by that point

[fading crown]

shits peak ngl

[ancient basin]

could take unload instead of burst of energy, will have to check if it works the way I think it does

[jaunty coral]

just had a guy call me an 'entitled child' because i was doing the shrines during the event, of which i queued for to finish it and he goes "sigh i hate events" and complains

stupid mother fucker, then dont queue the event? "its quickplay" he says .... ya man thats a choice. don't quick play during an event?

"you entitled child telling people not to use game features, sign of weak character" or something he said

cant believe it

[ancient basin]

sounds like a block to me

[peak bloom]

for a full right tree build, whats yalls stimm lab layout?

[jaunty coral]

he thinks he's entitled to make us skip the event shrines in the event match, which he got in because the dumb mother fucker used quick play during an event... then calls ME an entitled child, its ridiculous lol

absolutely insane

ya i blocked him

[fading crown]

Thats quick peak for you lol

[ancient basin]

I go attack speed and either toughness or power mostly

[manic wolf]

Nah, not a block case, just barrel them at every avaliable opportunity and send thier bloodpressure through the roof, the more pissed off they get, the more mistakes they'll make, the more likely they die, the madder they get, the more you can take the piss 😄

[novel oracle]

youd probably want to drop hyper crit
burst of energy is dope as fuck

[peak bloom]

whats better, more or less viscosity?

[novel oracle]

hyper crit is melee only

[jaunty coral]

i literally called him a stupid mother fucker and i never fucking rage at people in game

[peak bloom]

like does viscosity matter if you're always using the stimm with the pack

[ancient basin]

it allows you to cycle the pack faster for more buffs

[novel oracle]

yes

thats how fast you get your stim back

[manic wolf]

I never go into more than one tree on any build tbh

The increased cooldown never seems worth it

[jaunty coral]

amazing lol im not this evil tho, block and move on

[peak bloom]

should it line up with the stimmpack cooldown or be faster than it (for the pack augment)

[ancient basin]

I go with a 4/2 split on my chem lab build

43% viscosity

[novel oracle]

thats up to you
do you want a faster crate with weaker effects or a stronger crate that comes around less often

[peak bloom]

keeping in mind dependency

[drifting heron]

Mmmm I'm so full of 4% strength

[limber cradle]

The enlightened addict, using sample collector

[drifting heron]

1 point investment for chem bombing

Sugar water

[limber cradle]

Attain a stronger crate faster from blendering your foes

[novel oracle]

keeping in mind dependency, the stim is still the bottleneck

[manic wolf]

QP into Sniper Gauntlet/Vent Purge

Snipers make no noise

Quit

[drifting heron]

So full of 4% strength mmmm

[limber cradle]

I love strength and movement speed

[ancient basin]

I dont run extra duration stims, and you have a choice between popping stim first then dropping crate to double stim yourself, or just dropping crate to have permanent up time of crate and stims

[thick adder]

Just got Hive Scum a couple of days ago. Any tips before I subject myself more into this goofy ahh londoner?

[sturdy linden]

It's worth if you're playing a tox build

Because 2x effect of Sample Collector

[novel oracle]

dont get hit

[sturdy linden]

Easy to spam boxes even with 100% visc

[thick adder]

Obviously

[drifting heron]

Crate requires an off cooldown stimm to disperse it

[novel oracle]

so yknow how you dont wanna get hit with other characters

[limber cradle]

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball

[novel oracle]

you REALLY dont want to be hit on scum

[drifting heron]

You can't double pop with it

[worn gull]

Is desperado bolt pistol the worst idea or the best idea

[thick adder]

If you can dodge a sniper, you can dodge a shotgun

[thick adder]

Yes

[limber cradle]

Yeah, now keep dodging everything else too

[novel oracle]

multiply that by 10x

[ancient basin]

use your stim to cover your down times after rampage, toughness stim nodes are better than you think, tap fire dual autos at long ranged, needle gun is OP

[bronze glade]

it works

[thick adder]

Dodge sensation

[limber cradle]

You simply must dodgemax

[thick adder]

I know that much (considering this is a glass canon class.)

[ancient basin]

you have very limited sources of passive toughness regen, to stay in coherency as much as you can

[thick adder]

I play psyker so I know how important it is to not get shot

Or stabbed

[drifting heron]

Toughness stimm path is worse than you think its 16% dr and a 50% restore

[novel oracle]

old psyker or new psyker

[thick adder]

or bludgeoned

[drifting heron]

The 50% restore can be achieved via tree

[novel oracle]

new psyker is pretty fuckin tanky

[thick adder]

New psyker

[novel oracle]

yeah thats not a glass cannon

thats a cannon cannon

[thick adder]

Fair fair

[worn gull]

New psyker is one of the tankiest in the game rn

[novel oracle]

psyker is a cannon made of cannons

[thick adder]

I'm shocked

(Not really)

[novel oracle]

that shoots cannons made of cannons that are also shooting

[ancient basin]

not for a full stim load, but a couple nodes improves your resilience while exhausted

[drifting heron]

Its a glass cannon in the way that if you drop something on your foot it hurts

Don't drop the thing

[ancient basin]

which build type were you looking to experiment with first though

desperado, rampage, or chem lab

they all work

[novel oracle]

the thing that would cause a psyker to say "ow, that kinda hurt" completely removes scum and their extended kin from history

[worn gull]

I think I'm actually gonna try to make desperado bolt pistol work

[ancient basin]

horde clear for sure, but the reloads are going to be pain

[drifting heron]

"Oof oowie ouchie"
Vs
Red stain

[thick adder]

"Ow that hurts"

"Kill them my beloved" the psyker says as everyone in the room dies except him and those he considers midly interesting

[ancient basin]

I enjoy SG psyker more than rampage hive scum for the sole reason of psyker moves much faster so I can get out ahead of my team kill stealing my melee engages

or just to cover flanks better

[drifting heron]

Doesn't matter how much movespeed you have if you can just fight faster

[pallid quail]

well also bfg is super cool and satisfying to use

[ancient basin]

hive scum is surprisingly sluggish in its repositioning capability comparatively (my brain works on max speed psyker main)

[drifting heron]

Why

Why did you do that soder

Please

[novel oracle]

soda pop

[bronze glade]

ngl

[drifting heron]

Nuclear shadow

[bronze glade]

i automatically have less respect for someone if they main desperado

might as well be playing psyker

[drifting heron]

I play it to run through an entire mission with my gun then go back to rampage

[pallid quail]

i will bring desperado into a 40 again just to spite you

[supple torrent]

what if its desperado no vulture

[sturdy linden]

I have played precisely 3 games of Desperado since I hit Auric and I ONLY run it if I genuinely think the whole team sucks for ranged combat

[bronze glade]

haven't thought that far

[sturdy linden]

melee scum is like, 10x more engaging

[peak bloom]

bold of you to assume you will be able to see the team before loading in

[sturdy linden]

I shrimply do not queue up as Desperado

only swap to it if I have to

[supple torrent]

I like desperado without vulture. You have downtime.

[peak bloom]

i never notice when i have or dont have vulture stacks

whereas i can notice adrenaline

[drifting heron]

Thats because I think they're bugged

Not even my mod can force them to show up

The buff works but it won't display right

[manic wolf]

Doesnt the stim have a cooldown lockout?

Pretty sure it does

[sturdy linden]

A 100% visc stimm is available for use in as little as ~20-30sec

[manic wolf]

Right, but how are you 2xing the effect of Sample Collector?

[sturdy linden]

Tox effected enemies give 2% CDR

[peak bloom]

huh

[manic wolf]

Ah, right, I misunderstood, I thought you meant you were getting extra CDR from the stim itself

[peak bloom]

oh right the cd reduction talent

[sturdy linden]

The only real stimm talent in the whole tree

[peak bloom]

do yall get much mileage out of the anti-corruption-stim talent or nah
ive just been running the toughness perk

[novel oracle]

i only use it in havoc, and only sometimes

[peak bloom]

not a ton of time i get corruption that isnt just me getting downed

[novel oracle]

i think itll lose even more value in normal games when hitboxes are fixed

[peak bloom]

that reminds me

my brother was telling me that the explosion hitboxes got bigger

[novel oracle]

thats not true

[peak bloom]

and then in the very same mission i get launched at mach 4 across the room and into a chasm

[novel oracle]

its the other way around

[peak bloom]

theyre more forgiving?

[novel oracle]

its the players

[peak bloom]

oh the player hitbox for explosions

[novel oracle]

hitbox period

[peak bloom]

oh

oh no

[novel oracle]

have you felt like youve gotten blocked a lot more by normal enemies recently

[peak bloom]

perhaps

there was one time when a bulwark blocked my dodge and i died to a poxburster

isnt that bounding boxes tho

[supple torrent]

now I know what ogryns feel like

[dense hollow]

ogryn but before the rework to dodge through trash and stagger them

[manic wolf]

Really its just that explosions feel bigger

Thats the majorly obvious one

Getting stuck on stuff has always been a problem in DT

That being said, I did notice that I wasnt able to use the special attacks on TacAxe in the Psyk vs Plogryn because your hitbox prevents you getting close enough

[compact oyster]

Our hitbox is bigger now

[bronze glade]

desperado is just gunker

change my mind

[open marten]

People seem to suggest using the SMG's but I find myself to be more effective with the dualies

[final temple]

the stubs just don’t pump the shots for a crit focussed weapon. they are outclassed by smg and shredder.

that said, they are fine as a sidearm if you really don’t want needler

but then again the bpistol brings more to the table

[light goblet]

I like the dualies for being a primarily sniping weapon that CAN spray into a crowd if I need it to

[final temple]

that’s pretty much their use case outclassed or not.

[manic wolf]

I know.

But I hadnt noticed it being the hitbox till messing about in Psyk

Also, Ranged Scum needs to fuck off an die already

The single most aids build to be in a group with during this event modifier

[novel oracle]

i played the event during the media build for a bit then realized cranial was there

my heart sank

i knew it was gonna fuckin suck

[manic wolf]

Yeup

Not only is it possibly the most braindead build to ever grace the game, its implemented with a modifer that makes melee players despise it even more than they otherwise would

[pallid quail]

its actually so peak. i get to send my psyker flying all over the place

[manic wolf]

You also send everyone else flying all over the place and dramatically slow down clear speed as a result

Not to mention force people out of positions, which can very easily cause deaths, slowing clear speed even further and increasing the chance of full wipe

[pallid quail]

making hordes blow up does not reduce horde clearing speed lmao

[manic wolf]

It does, because your teammates are now forced away from them, resulting in less outgoing DPS

[fast gust]

Depends heavily, cc increases mixes horde clear speed

Since no one has to worry baout a crusher, a rager or a mauler smashing them

[manic wolf]

Cc is only good when its not actively detrimental, see; smite

You're losing a whole player's worth of DPS for CC

Not a good trade

[fast gust]

I was thinking more of clob or ogryn/arbi charge, smykers stinkt

[pallid quail]

look the psyker can swing their silly sword around and kill like 1-2 of em at a time or i can blast the netter n in the horde with my kickback and kill like 30 of em

[fast gust]

Or trauma debuff stick

Seems psykers forgot about that one

[manic wolf]

Or you could let your heavy sword Scum do it where he kills like 15 each swing

[pallid quail]

ew

[fast gust]

Instructions unclear scum ate a mauler basic attack and now has half hp

[pallid quail]

half ?

he didnt get atomically deleted ?

[manic wolf]

Unironically, that happend last game.. Twice because the Desperado moron insisted mag dumping everything in sight

[fast gust]

Not an overhead, just your basic

[dense hollow]

scum has enough dr to not die to overheads but that doesnt mean you should be taking them

[dense hollow]

such a swingy class, roll a coin toss on how good your melee scum player is going to be

take 20 dmg throughout the game or 1000 dmg

[ripe fjord]

When it says "when weapon is active" for the extra stamina on ranged weapon, does that mean when I'm using the ADS?

[fast gust]

Scummer benefits greatly from having on demand cc around, Ogryn taunt/charge+rampage is awesome

[ripe fjord]

I ask cause on melee weapon it just says "+2 stamina"

[fast gust]

Makes them more consistent

[ripe fjord]

Or is it just pointless fluff text cause FS has a lil bit of a problem with that

[manic wolf]

They can take Blinders for that an have it themselves

[fast gust]

Yes but 90% of scummers in pubs are taking chems or rocket

[manic wolf]

Or you know, RPG and just remove a shidd situation in a single click

[fast gust]

[manic wolf]

I do laugh when someone says the fish tin grenade is best (its the worst at this point)

[dense hollow]

rocket's the best at deleting bulwark walls from any equation which is a big deal

[manic wolf]

Yeah, and or any armoured blob you dont want to/dont have time to deal with

Also for clearing the area around a boss

[fast gust]

Got a feeling rocket may see a nerf once the whiners have ran off again

That or frag bomb buffs, but FS would never buff Ogryn intentionally

[dense hollow]

i doubt rocket will get a nerf

[manic wolf]

Yeah, I'd be surprised tbh

[fast gust]

Stopping hex rituals from any distance too, perfect for diving

[dense hollow]

frag bomb still needs to be buffed to compensate for armor buffs

[manic wolf]

I've not played the current havoc modifiers yet and if thats back, Im not sure I want to

I still have PTSD from when they would randomly activate three fucking rooms away, or in inaccessible places

[fast gust]

Yep it's pretty bad in throneside mid event

trigger is so far away and overlaps with a boss/cap trigger

[manic wolf]

I'll be honest, I find havoc more of a chore than a fun experience most of the time

I didnt enjoy testing it, and I dont enjoy playing it now

[dense hollow]

anyway dclaw mk1 fucks on melee scum

fun weapon

[manic wolf]

MKI?

Thats uhhh

A weird choice to say is good as thats kinda the worst one

[dense hollow]

its unconventional

but light spamming has a special pattern that has faster ttks than heavy attacks on carapace and you can stagger crushers super easily

[calm aurora]

He has seen the light

[manic wolf]

Given the moveset, I think I would still pick HS IX over it

Its got a chain with special > Heavy which dumpsters most things absurdly quickly with Rampage active, an H1 > H2 is very good mixed horde clear with no fuss

[dense hollow]

i still need to use HS on scum

im running through all melee weapons

[manic wolf]

Its pretty gnarly man

Can kinda just chop your way through everything short of a Crusher, an even they're not a huge issue if Rampage is up, if it isnt, RPG them or bring Bpistol as secondary

Or you know, Needler

[dense hollow]

i think crusher performance on HS with most melees is acceptable, its not great but its not that slow even with dclaw since you have so much power and access to rending stim

u can also just use needle gun yeah

i wonder if rpg will be the best hive scum blitz for h40 since it still one shots bulwarks there and does 65% of crusher hp

[manic wolf]

I just run a test an yeah, HS is more than x2 faster on Crusher kill with special >H1 chain than Dclaw MKI is on lights

[manic wolf]

I expect it to tbh

Being able to just remove armour like that gets increasingly valuable further up the chain you go innit

[dense hollow]

you dont usually have that much competing with you for grenade boxes anyway

[manic wolf]

I dont think anyone is gonna take them from you if you have that level of bullshit removal either

[dense hollow]

if u have a vet, an arbites and a psyker none of them (assuming lone wolf) need boxes

[manic wolf]

Scummer with RPG has kinda just nicked Ogryn's grenade priviledges lol

[dense hollow]

ogryn gets 1 nuke and hive scum gets 4 on most builds

[manic wolf]

Yeah, there is just so much more value in letting Scum take the boxes

Which tbh, in the long run might be a good thing

Because although Ogryn nuke is a screen clearer, its not particularly utilitarian like the box or rocks are

An the box especially, can be utterly clutch

[dense hollow]

ogryn nuke has 16 meters of emergency clear

very good of course

same with box basically staggering everything

[toxic dagger]

Nuke is a very binary type of ability. It has 1 charge and needs to hit all of the oneshot breakpoints that it did when it was added to the game to function as intended

So it needs more damage now

[dense hollow]

yeah it needs dmg buff to compensate for armor buff for sure

[toxic dagger]

But pretty simple fix

[manic wolf]

I still don't think its gonna have as much value as it used to though

Even with buffs

Its very hard to argue with instant armour removal 4 times before needing to refill the blitz over just one charge before needing a refill

[toxic dagger]

Yeah idk why they buffed the RPG dmg and radius and charges all in one go

Bit much

[manic wolf]

I would have given it 4 base charges, 5 with perk, and kept the radius as what it was tbh

That way its much more targeted, but with good use amounts

[dense hollow]

it couldve had an unique way to regen charges and had its old stats

[manic wolf]

Hell, even 2 charges base, and 3 with perk, but a means to regen them

[dense hollow]

but this is the direction they took

colossal buff to every important stat

[toxic dagger]

I didn't see that change in a playtest btw. Seems to me like a bit of a panicky response to the heavy scum criticism

[dense hollow]

like imagine you're picking up a rocket from a dead bomber

[manic wolf]

I would imagine, though that panic was unwarranted for the most part

[dense hollow]

sounda gimmicky but kinda funny

[manic wolf]

Its just this class came off the back of Arb, which unfortunately, is so hard to kill that people got used to that

[manic wolf]

Every 3/5 bomber kills nets you a rocket would be cool actually

[dense hollow]

if you're not playing h40 and ur clicking auric quickplays or auric maelstorm the breakpoints allow rocket to one shot everything that isnt a monstrosity

that amount of value doesnt exist anywhere else in a blitz

[fallen void]

best loadout for a ranged build?

[dense hollow]

and in h40s the only thing that survivd is a crusher

[manic wolf]

Play a melee build

[dense hollow]

hive scum is more fun as a melee build but i ran desperado double barrel for a while

[covert obsidian]

Should you ever heavy with shivs?

[manic wolf]

Ranged Scum was fun for like 2 days, then you realise it trivialises the game entirely and you just dont play it anymore

[dense hollow]

honestly i didnt even need to use desperado on the double barrel build

[covert obsidian]

@dense hollownice sona btw

[dense hollow]

cheers

[covert obsidian]

may I see more? :D

[dense hollow]

generally best guns for desperado are guns with high uptime, without long reloads so use your choice of shredder autopistol, dual autopistols, or some of the autoguns

someone will be able to say which autoguns are good im sure, i have barely used the autoguns and i should get myself acquainted with them

[fast gust]

The stranglehold the whiners have on Fatshark

[dense hollow]

the rocket wasnt good but this is totally overkill

[slender plinth]

what blessings are y'all running on shredder autopistol desperado

my current thought is blaze away + speedload
that or blaze away and pinning fire

[novel oracle]

Speedload is near mandatory imo

[slender plinth]

📝 this is fair

[final temple]

yes. single target is Heavy chain

[covert obsidian]

Ty

[random shuttle]

Had a lovely clutch on No Man's Land and a rarest of all pokemon - Toxic Ogryn.

Damn even as an Ogryn Main I must say, that when Ogryns are toxic, which is super rare, they are Toxic AF 😄

[dense hollow]

catching a toxic ogryn is truly a shiny pokemon

i click on ogryn when i don't have a care in the world and just run around having fun with a pickaxe

[random shuttle]

yeah I mean, yeah

OGG is OGG. You can brute force any mission by just pushing forward. Tank anything. Not exactly a good outlet for toxicity but this guy managed

[final temple]

naive question: how to toxic as ogryn?

[foggy phoenix]

Run the carpet bomber build, hoard all the ammo, detonate all the barrels and pretend you have exactly 1 HP

[random shuttle]

Well he kept pushing or lagging behind solo and did not have the skillset to stay alive (wild btw, on Ogryn lmao), so after 3-4 time he get downed he tossed in the chat about how we all SUCK, how we likely all have a talent to reduce Threat since he is the only one attacking, then got uppity and upset and stopped fighting. Didn't want to extract either or share a crate or fight final boss.

[frigid sluice]

is there no votekick

[random shuttle]

There is

[flat mist]

What you just described isn't value

[random shuttle]

When he began to lag on extraction I vote kicked.

[final temple]

okay. that is a level of skill I shan’t aspire to xD

[random shuttle]

Then he got into the Valky.

[fallen void]

wow

[random shuttle]

Fortunately I was on a Melee Scum so I soloed the Chaos Spawn and clutched solo for 1/3 of the mission

[dense hollow]

removing bulwarks from the equation isn't value?

[echo python]

If you're running the speedload talent, you could try Blaze Away + Cavalcade for lots of crit fun

[flat mist]

Being able to oneshot things isn't a good measure of value. It doesn't tell you anything about what value actually means.

[young herald]

turning a room full of bad guys into red mist is immense value

especially when those bad guys are crushers

[random shuttle]

Yeah I am a little confused by this exchange

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. theres not really any debate regarding the value the Zook brings

[random shuttle]

"This kills 10+ big nasty big guys"
"Yeah but where's the value in that?"
"???"

[manic wolf]

Its Ogryn grenade that has 4 charges and instantly deletes run ending threats

[young herald]

the only reason the rocking lawnchair isn't the best blitz in the game is because it's on scum

literally that's it

and it's still really goddamn close

[low harbor]

Tbh I don’t mind hvs having bonkers blitz picks given the class is overwhelmingly dps oriented

[dense hollow]

even if it doesn't one shot crushers in havoc 40 you kill all the other armor in a pack if theres maulers or bulwarks

and you do 65% of a crusher hp in h40

[low harbor]

But I do think zealot and Og’s blitz picks could get better given their similar use cases

[young herald]

ogryn just needs the frag bomb buffed, not sure if it needs 2 charges or a larger radius, but either would put it at the right spot, I think

[manic wolf]

Someone mentioned giving Zealot fire grenades corruption cleanse if the team is stood on it an like, that sounds actually really interesting

[random shuttle]

😏

There might be something cookin'.

[young herald]

neat

either way, the other 2 ogryn blitzes are basically perfect, balance-wise

[manic wolf]

Ye, Ogryn blitz are pretty gud

[young herald]

one turns off the room for ~10s and the other deletes any one enemy

[random shuttle]

Taunt needs to be remade into a giant fart with reverb that stacks 3 tox on enemies every wave.

[young herald]

as hilarious as that would be, plzno

[manic wolf]

Lule

[low harbor]

Nah tox needs to be kept a hvs exclusive thing

[young herald]

unironically, taunt should just lose the pulses on it

[low harbor]

Just like soulblaze

[young herald]

change nothing else and just remove the pulsing effect

and taunt's solid

[random shuttle]

PBB needs Despacito ammo thing

[young herald]

still probably too strong

but whatever

[final temple]

I wouldn’t mind taunt occasionally causing a voice line disparaging other classes for the shits

[dense hollow]

i think executioner's stance is in a good spot but point blank barrage is like an anemic ranged ability

[toxic dagger]

PBB needs a rework

[young herald]

PBB needs something, not entirely sure what though

a ground-up rework into an entirely new ability is probably called for

[toxic dagger]

I think if you slap Desperado's free ammo on it but without the duration extension mechanic it wouldn't be unhinged. You could just use the ability off its actual cooldown instead of its cooldown + the limits forced on you by ammo scarcity

[young herald]

the twinks also need a big buff as well

my issue with the free ammo for ogryn is that the ammo limitations are kinda the point

part of why I think lucky bullet needs to go as well, tbh

[dense hollow]

PBB has a really long cooldown though so it doesn't sound that bad to give him free ammo without extensions

[young herald]

ogryn shouldn't have any kind of ammo gen or sustain other than what other classes can give it, and his guns should be balanced accordingly

[toxic dagger]

Havoc proves that if ranged builds are actually ammo limited, they are unplayable, and all the viable ranged builds have ways to mitigate ammo consumption (psyker, vet shocktrooper, desperado)

[manic wolf]

Shiiiit, you can get knife to two shot Crushers on Scum

[final temple]

maybe instead give it ignore ranged damage for the duration?

[dense hollow]

ignore ranged damage is a really boring buff

remove a mechanic

[young herald]

this is true, but also one of my gripes with havoc balance

[glad latch]

Yeah, really weird that twin 50cals don't demolish everything really quick. They feel more like a fat assault rifle with a big mag attached.

[manic wolf]

It needs to be removed entirely.

Its dumb on Scummer and it would be dumb on Ogryn

[young herald]

I keep saying, desperado's ranged immunity should 100% be replaced with massive sprint dodge angles

[toxic dagger]

Same but it's also a proof of concept. Actual strict ammo limitations just kill builds. I would like to see havoc with regular ammo pickups though and see how that affects things.

[final temple]

I mean, isn’t the power fantasy of PBB an ogryn just unloading into whatever stands in their way? I think letting them ignore what could keep them from doing so seems more appropriate on PBB than desperado

[dense hollow]

you can dodge while shooting

[low harbor]

If havoc had no ammo gain penalty, ballistic weapons would def be more viable overall

[final temple]

I wasn’t aware that power fantasy includes the ogryn dancing to swan lake. I shall adjust my expectations.

[wise turtle]

Late because I'm searching every comment related to the hurtbox and hitbox bugs

But yeah Havoc is even slower than normal

[dense hollow]

i understand the fantasy, but i'd prefer playing around the mechanics instead of turning them off

[young herald]

i mean yeah, when something is resource-limited and about as effective as something that is unlimited, then, naturally, constraining the resource even further just means the unlimited options are always superior

[wise turtle]

(Lots of people with clearance 20 trying to get into H40 games, as well, but that's a different story)

[low harbor]

I just wish Og’s guns were better overall

Esp the twin stubbers

[wise turtle]

The best thing about this is that Boombringer + toxin blitzes does what the frag bomb does to rituals

but better

[final temple]

give cooldown and adjust damage bonus respectively and you have players engage on a tactical layer where they have to make a value judgement for the opportunity cost of using their ability at this point.

[wise turtle]

And easier to hit, too

and you also get 4 of them

[young herald]

from a design ethos standpoint, ranged ogryn should be "okay, I have ammo. I obliterate everything on the scree- and I'm out of ammo"

[wise turtle]

That's lore-accurate, too

[low harbor]

Basically the hvs rocket balance

[echo python]

What if PBB got a stacking ammo efficiency bonus the longer you fire

[dense hollow]

reapers magically conjure ammo by smacking their guns

so what if you could do the same

[low harbor]

Idk I think it’s more that gunlugger builds have atrocious melee, and og guns are generally 1 tier below their human counterparts

[manic wolf]

Reapers are channelling their inner Ork and summoning bullets through sheer belief 😄

[low harbor]

Og bottom right branch needs a lot of help

[young herald]

kinda, yeah. The rocket specifically is more about rewarding predictive play with massive and effective damage, but there's definitely similarities

[echo python]

Whatever the case, ranged ogryn should have some kind of incentive to hold that fire button down because that's just how ogryns work

[glad latch]

I think PBB should instantly refill 20% of your max ammo on use and also have you not consume ammo while PBB is active. That would solve the problem of luggers eating 30+ ammo bags every mission.

[echo python]

Mechanics that make players behave like lore accurate ogryns are always fun

[young herald]

rework both PBB and lucky bullet and now we're talking

[wise turtle]

I'm also like

[low harbor]

This is not that bad of an idea if the ability’s CD is atrociously long even with full CD rate coverage

[wise turtle]

one of three ogryns playing H40 on NA

it's so sad

lonely out here...

I also hardly see ogryns in regular QP, at all difficulty levels

Poor Ogryn only gets play if it's the best class in the game

[dense hollow]

i like playing ogryn but i don't have that many flavours on ogryn

[manic wolf]

Its very, very strong

Its just not busted at the moment.

[low harbor]

Like, straight triple digit base CD

[young herald]

tbh I just need more weapons that feel good to play

[wise turtle]

Ogryn is indeed very strong

[manic wolf]

Players will mostly default to whatever gets them the easiest win, thats just how people work

[young herald]

I like paul and I like the mk3 shovel, and that's about it

[wise turtle]

But the lack of weapon variety turns people off

plus all of the complaints about it feeling clunky, etc.

[young herald]

gimme more and more interesting weapons and I'm down with more ogryn time

[toxic dagger]

Idk if I agree with this

[wise turtle]

The hurtbox bugs also means Ogryn gets hit by even more stray bullets than usual

[low harbor]

Og guns need a lot of help and some distinct ranged weapon archetypes are missing from their arsenal

[dense hollow]

i don't even feel that ogryn is that clunky

[glad latch]

PBB already has a fairly long cooldown (longest ult cooldown in the game), so it probably would be ok.

[dense hollow]

theres just not a lot of different avenues i can build ogryn into

[toxic dagger]

You spec your whole tree into ranged buffs and then you can't shoot half the time? Not fun

[low harbor]

If it gave infinite ammo within mag during its use it needs to be longer than what it currently is

[manic wolf]

Morb's suggestion is kinda exactly what Agayek has outlined though

[young herald]

morb is saying the exact opposite of what I'm saying

[wise turtle]

Yes, but Ogryn DOES boost your chances of winning

[young herald]

I'm saying ogryn shouldn't get any ammo gen at all ever

[wise turtle]

And other classes have decent representation right now (from my anecdotal evidence on NA servers)

[young herald]

ogryn should be able to walk up to a large ammo bag and become God for 10-20s

and then have to go melee until the next ammo bag

[low harbor]

So don’t make that right side branch “ranged build”

Make that branch “ogryn who can do melee decently well and have a ranged delete option”

[wise turtle]

People just don't play ogryn unless it's busted because they don't like the feel, the lack of weapons, etc.

[manic wolf]

And thats how we get old PBB Ogryn that eats every ammo pickup on the map.

[wise turtle]

Or they think it's boring

tbh Bull Rush could use some love too

[young herald]

and there's nothing wrong with that

[wise turtle]

It's just Taunt or bust in havoc

[young herald]

ammo goblin is a perfectly valid design choice

[glad latch]

I mean the hivescum already gets infinite ammo and their ability has like half the cooldown

[low harbor]

Og is just very fundamentally a melee class imo, any kind of ranged approach u add to them must not come at significant detriment to their melee capacity

[young herald]

that's literally why all the other ranged classes have ammo gen capability

[frigid sluice]

maybe the reason why ogyrn isn't getting so much ammo from ammo drops is because they taste test half of the entire box

[manic wolf]

There is, because that strips resources away from all other classes and allows the class thats arguably second best in melee, to also be one of the best in range

[toxic dagger]

Gunlugger would need to change into a full hybrid that gets long melee buffs after shooting and running out of ammo for that feast or famine design to work and even then it'd be annoying to play with and possibly even as. Lol

[low harbor]

Their ability doesn’t give bonkers damage and they still reload

Inf ammo within mag size specifically, means 10 full seconds of nonstop shooting without reloading

And given blaze away that’s kinda insane

[toxic dagger]

Wait. Ammo count martyrdom

[manic wolf]

?

[young herald]

see, now we're thinking like an ogryn 😛

[young herald]

"ranged damage goes up as your ammo reserves go down"

[low harbor]

The less % of max reserve ammo u have, the more melee buffs u get?

[young herald]

make it a keystone

[toxic dagger]

Yyea

[young herald]

instead of lucky bullet

I like that idea

[low harbor]

Well

That melee buff needs to stand out from heavy hitter

[young herald]

that's a great way to replace lucky bullet

[low harbor]

So what’s it gonna be

[manic wolf]

Better with melee than ranged because if it were ranged damage increases then that further encourages ammo goblining

[glad latch]

Massive issue with lugger is you generally have poor melee capabilities and also no range once you have no/limited ammo, so it's kind of a bad class to play like that.

[young herald]

yeah, that's why you rework the keystone into something that addresses that

[quick echo]

Last resort bardin in darktide?

[glad latch]

How though? Maybe keystone that gives you a stacking damage buff for holding down the trigger (or reloading if using the tube guns).

[manic wolf]

It could be very hard to balance ammo based martyrdom tho

Because there would be nothing stopping you speccing a full melee build and just taking that to boost it to stupid levels

[young herald]

the obvious thing is you have the core node that just gives, say, 5% melee strength, or maybe universal strength, per 10% ammo missing from reserves, and then subnodes for attack speed, fire rate, and a proc to give Close Ranged damage to you and allies in coherency on kill

[toxic dagger]

give it a timer so you can't hover at low ammo for free buffs forever

[wise turtle]

re: Bull Rush, its problem is that Taunt is better both as CC and as a toughness regen tool. What I'd do to start would be to make Stomping Boots give you a stacking buff that restores 10% toughness over x seconds per target hit (with a cap, of course)

[low harbor]

Long timer tho

[toxic dagger]

Enough to be powerful for a bit and scrounge new ammo

[wise turtle]

Taunt would still offer more utility, but at least Bull Rush would give you comparable or superior toughness regen compared to taunt

[toxic dagger]

Ye like chemdep

Not short

But not forever

[young herald]

I like that

make it so spending, say, 10% of your ammo reserve gives one stack of the buff and it lasts for 1 minute, stacking up to 5 times

and it decays one stack at a time

[final temple]

I prefer ogryn over arbites if I just wanna smash things for a relaxed evening of beers and bashing heretics

[wise turtle]

I swap between the two, but have far far far more playtime in oggy

and I end up filling the Ogryn slot in Havoc anyway (because hardly anyone else wants to play it)

[echo python]

A) Gluggers should be incentivised to never stop firing during PBB, and B) Gluggers are punished for non-stop firing by running out of ammo, ergo C) Continous firing under PBB should use less ammo, somehow. I guess those are my overall thoughts.

[glad latch]

What if PBB gave a chance for dead ranged enemies to drop a small ammo pickup when they're killed by the Ogryns gun?

[young herald]

but yeah, with this change to the right keystone, I'd also gently rework PBB by removing the base close range damage and replacing it with a cleave increase and have it generate toughness on ranged kill.

Then the first subnode would be a stacking ranged strength buff that stacks up with every enemy hit by a ranged attack up to like 40 or 50 stacks, but decays one stack at a time very rapidly (something like 0.5s duration per stack, would have to test it to say for sure).

And from there it branches into a choice between burn or brittleness on hit

the idea being that you're incentivized to just tape down M1 while PBB is going and there's enemies in the area, spending ammo like crazy, which generates stacks for the keystone as well

and then finally I'd finish it off with a balance pass on ogryn guns, mostly to get them a few key h40 breakpoints they should probably have to justify the ammo consumption

[toxic dagger]

Details TBD ofc but I've proposed the concept to a dev. I think the design has potential for sure

[young herald]

we'll see what comes of it, if anything

[toxic dagger]

It's unique, leans into Ogryn identity, resolves ammo consumption being a problem by making it a key part of Keystone buff generation

[young herald]

yeah, twas a great idea on your part

[toxic dagger]

🫡

[halcyon apex]

A pbb and nade rework is one thing but a rescaling of oggys weapons, both melee and ranged are also needed if we are talking about Havoc.

Playing scum with desperado and pickpocket really does show what gunlugger could be if it had the potential.

Not including the ammo aura in the equation because it is invalidated by the existence of pickpocket.

[patent bone]

If one of Tertiums gangs makes a home in Gotham, which of Batmans villains goes first?

[pallid quail]

i did a morty with guns earlier n solod 4 pawgryns while everyone else was busy being dead

was pretty fun would recommend

rly feels like what gungryn wishes it was

[tardy cedar]

You have truly made Chem Crate Great (again)

[signal nebula]

Lol great minds. I also had a word 😉

[rustic lava]

ever since I got used to scum the progress on this penance has slowed to a crawl

Anyway to cheese this

[final temple]

mortis trials. just choose the upper left stimm path. don’t skill any toughness regen talents. take sample collector to speed up stimm cd.

[rustic lava]

so mortis and squishy build

[final temple]

The Show = Joker
Iron Riders = Bane
Water Cartel = Penguin
Tread Lightlies = Two Face

[radiant cosmos]

I would do Stimm Supply tox bomb build at any difficulty with the upper left stimm path. Bad play from teammates will do the work for you.

[dreamy rover]

Wished we had the option of the big mohawk. Reminds me of the rocker boy in the Hardcore Henry movie.

[digital drift]

the advice i got was wait for a bomber, stand in his fire for a little bit then pop it when you step out

that and i would just leave 1 or 2 trash mobs to hit me a bit so i got the full regen from the stimm

[rustic lava]

I think I am gonna use mortis and just farm the first rounds fire barrels as African servers are basically solo in mortis

[digital drift]

fire barrels dont hit toughness, only health

that was my first thought too

[fiery tulip]

This only counts for initial toughness gain

Just wait for a horde to wittle your toughness down, pop it, see results

It'll accumulate overtime.

Use all the toughness perks in the Stimm tree

[random shuttle]

NGL guys

I am doing Havoc 1

and it is tough

Guess Hive Scum is glass cannon without the cannon

[rapid mango]

stop it

i know you know better

[signal nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

Had the Shiv/Rampage/Dependency build out damaging a purgatus psyker in havoc

Felt good, if not a little terrifying to play

[tight musk]

Rocket launcher redemption arc was very short but very satisfying.

Started as the weakest blitz in the game, turned into one of the strongest in the game just one hotfix later.

[random shuttle]

😏

[oak bramble]

hive scum is a 0/10 class period, they should make the mastery shivs look like candy kanes

everything else is fine

[young herald]

This is what happens when you take all of the knobs at once and crank them up to 13

[oak bramble]

[severe zephyr]

i'm soo fucking tired of gas levels of this game so fucking tedious

[tropic bough]

I like how the cosmetics clip through all the new hivescum hair

[drowsy relic]

Rocket launcher gets a hell yeag

[reef skiff]

five big booms for the boom bringer

[digital mango]

https://tenor.com/view/bosnov-67-bosnov-67-67-meme-gif-16727368109953357722

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/luigi-luigi-speaking-luigi-talking-luigi-explaining-speaking-gif-21948151

[slender plinth]

is rampage wasted on bone saw

[exotic temple]

I don’t think so but I am biased

[slender plinth]

this is fair

[next fern]

i cant tell if i like hyperviolence

[slender plinth]

attack speed does mean more tox stacks

[exotic temple]

Once you get bonesaw attack speed and cleave going I think it’s fine

[slender plinth]

hmmm
reasonable

[exotic temple]

The interaction is a little weird and the 1 sec threshold seems limiting to me. I notice when it’s running but it’s hard for me to get value on anything other than tax axe and shivs knives etc

[shadow umbra]

I have a build thats makes this much easier to get

this is what i used to get that penance

[dim moth]

even using stimm supply that shit still only gives me like 20 progress a mission

I'm like 90% convinced that it's broken and only counts coherency regen, and not the instant toughness regen

also the dependency node that restores your toughness when you get stimmed doesn't count towards the penance either

[rigid dock]

starting to think desperado is both acting as a huge crutch for bad players nd also teaching them awful habits

[dim moth]

damn next thing you'll say is that psyker is overpowered

[rigid dock]

honestly no sarcasm, i didnt think people would feel the same

[reef skiff]

im guilty of this

[rigid dock]

i do get it, its probably the most fun ability scum has imo

[reef skiff]

too many times have i gone gung-ho with Hive Scum and ran head-on into waves of heretics because i felt invincible

[rigid dock]

but damn do newer players jumping on hive scum have literally 0 fundamentals when it comes to melee

[reef skiff]

this is why i use stimm supply

forces me to stick with the team

also i like providing support

[rigid dock]

stimm supply sucks, therefore its the most honest ability, therefore stimm supply users are the biggest chads

[dim moth]

fresh off arbites

[rigid dock]

sometimes i just stop and watch players on desperado when their ability runs out and theres still a big crowd of random chaff and they just look so overwhelmed

like brother use the push, block a little, you can do it i believe in you

and then they hit the floor :<

[winter galleon]

Whats a melee?

[slender plinth]

are maulers elites?

i mean uh

crushers

the big ones

ogryn

[rigid dock]

pretty sure they are?

[winter galleon]

YouTube told me i can shoot

[slender plinth]

thank

[reef skiff]

thank

[dim moth]

yeah

[next fern]

yes

elites are just the enemies that are fat versions of normal ones

they dont have special moves, they just hit you or shoot you

the specialists are the ones that have unique attacks/effects

and they tend to have sound cues

[zenith pagoda]

I think rampage shouldn't have increased damage after finishing, apart from that hivescum is a strong class

[zealous ravine]

the rampage withdrawal is so weird

i dont even notice it at all lol

i'd rather chem dependency have side effects cause i mean drugs

[exotic temple]

Iirc the media build had more buffs on rampage which justified the exhaustion

[supple swan]

as far as i can tell it counts only instant regen

when you activate stim

[zealous ravine]

could b

[supple swan]

cuz that how i got it pretty quick

[lapis oasis]

I got this particular penance by going into Damnation Mortis and hovering around teammates before throwing Stimm Supply.

Mortis means more charges for Stimm Supply or faster regen and since you're always fighting it makes Enhanced a breeze. Roughly 200ish progress per run if your team isn't absolutely cracked and just don't take damage.

[exotic temple]

But when they nerfed the ability they should have taken the dmg + on exhaustion off

[slender plinth]

They nerfed rampage?

[exotic temple]

From media build to launch

[slender plinth]

Ahhh

[zealous ravine]

exhaust should b something more noticeable like less movement speed

then you get movement speed bonus for rampage too

[supple swan]

Otherwise hive scum penances pretty easy

[lapis oasis]

Honestly Mortis makes most of the penances a breeze. Fail or not the amount of enemies it tosses means you're always making solid progress on most of them.

Pretty much all of Scum's are just "Play the Class with this ability/blitz/keystone" or "Use this stimm configuration".

[supple swan]

Same as Arbiters

[lapis oasis]

Arbite has one key difference!

Can't pet dog in Mortis-

But yeah, I imagine all DLC classes will probably have more simplified penances overall.

The main classes having some of the more frustrating/build dependant penances seems to be something they've pushed away from.

[cedar cairn]

Kill 1000 enemies with Heavy Attack while Stimmed:

[lapis raft]

i think chem dep should have stimm cdr, maybe instead of the ability cdr even, then the right side section would make alot more sense

[livid raven]

do blinders have anything in mortis trials

[reef skiff]

most of the Hive Scum penances i completed totally on accident

[cedar cairn]

Does CDR not affect the Stimms?

[echo python]

Fatshark should add a "Kill one of every Elite during a single stimm use on a thursday" penance

[livid raven]

no

[lapis raft]

chance to throw extra nades is one i've seen

[livid raven]

boooring

[lapis raft]

rpg has best one

[livid raven]

yeah i had it

kinda crazy

but not that much, the rpg is just slow

[lapis raft]

yea its mostly just fun :d

[lapis oasis]

That is the exception but even then I just tossed a Heavy Sword on a rampage build for that one and popped Stimm between rampages.

Which also I will say looking back that Penance in particular feels like an odd filler of sorts.

[supple swan]

Easy

Just bit long

[lapis raft]

can also do mk6 knife for that one

as there you kinda want to spam heavies a bit

[livid raven]

i would do crowbar

[supple swan]

Did with shivs

Easiest one was damage under stim

[lapis oasis]

"Hit Weakspots while stimmed" okay that makes sense, class is focused on weakspots but iirc there's only like...two or so nodes that make heavy attack better and one is locked behind full charged rampage heavies yeah?

[supple swan]

One rocket into the horde and we done

[lapis oasis]

Yuuuup.

[livid raven]

i wouldn't say the class is focused on weakpoints

[exotic temple]

Bonesaw has a blessing for +60% weak spot dmg

[livid raven]

it's ass

[astral canyon]

yeah i'd say its more crit focused

[lapis oasis]

Melee toughness regen has those caveats but in general you should be hitting weakspots anyway.

[exotic temple]

And iirc the finesse isn’t terrible

[lapis raft]

both weakpoints and heavies are more weapon specific than class specific

[lapis oasis]

Hmm, fair point.

[astral canyon]

nah

unfair point

[lapis oasis]

Regardless, I'm gonna go make breakfast and then curse whoever left the fridge on outside and made it so cold I had to make a fire.

I'm gonna write a strongly worded letter to whoever this "Nature" person is.

[reef skiff]

since the blackout blitz is an augmented version of the blinder does it still count for penances that require using the blinder

[winter galleon]

Yes unless its bugged otherwise you would have to run no talents since cant skip the blitz

[reef skiff]

fair point

[dim moth]

yeah it does

[supple swan]

It does

[severe zephyr]

Is there any perk talent or blessing to avoid faral damage once or something like that? I feel really glass canon and as soon as some corruption goes in a bomb guy kills me even if they blow away faar from me

[dim moth]

nope

you gotta learn how to play the game and not make fatal mistakes on this guy

[severe zephyr]

Lmao

[winter galleon]

Dont make the mistake of having a fat hitbox

I feel a lot of the “squishiness” will go away when thats fixed

[slender plinth]

yep, this is the glass canon class

sidenote, is the chainaxe worth building crit on

or should i try to go for raw damage

[lapis raft]

stimm supply is good at tanking bursters kinda :d not that i recommend it but its an option

[astral sundial]

Yo fellow scummies. Is the bonesaw worth using ? Been thinking of making a meele build.

[winter galleon]

Devs started vacation last week after dropping the hotfix right? So we stuck being fatties for another month or so?

[livid raven]

no, the usually close near christmas

if it's not next week, then yeah, see you in february

[winter galleon]

So your saying a chance we get ozempic tuesday maybe if they can figure it out

[reef skiff]

what

[winter galleon]

They are European, they get healthy vacations so ya once they go its going to be a while

[reef skiff]

as a European, i can attest that we all get healthy vacations

[tepid elk]

Love it in a rampage/dependency build

[astral sundial]

`Thats what I've been thinking of running. So far I've only played pistol scum

[tepid elk]

Push attack/heavy/light and repeat for hordes, first heavy then block cancel with the brittle thing for crushers

[tepid elk]

On rampage I will say you'll probably want the needle pistol

that or the boom, both are good at killing crushers, just one is better for 7 crushers at once and the other is better for individual ones

[digital lynx]

Light crit weapons with hyper crit feel so much better than the slower ones

[rotund agate]

btw, if you were to run mk13 chainsword on scum, which stat would you dump: mobiliity or shredder?

I myself have dumped mobility, but I am trying to upgrade a second chainsword with dumped shredder just cuz I can then dodge better (the revving is not all that important on the mk13 for carapace damage compared to just spamming crit heavies from what I can tell).

[astral sundial]

I'd probably take the needlepistol to try it out. But I also planned to take the rocketlauncher on that build

so who knows.

[tepid elk]

Having both is nice, pistols also are decent on a melee build

[final temple]

yes. but be aware it’s more of a versatility choice than for pure damage. and you need cleave.

[exotic temple]

I like it some people say it’s mid but with the right perks and build I enjoy using it

[exotic temple]

Rampage/dependency is my favorite way to run saw too. All the nodes by dependency give decent buffs and toughness regen when around enemies with toxin on them and you can run a longer cs stim and have it available when rampage goes on cooldown to counteract the exhaustion debuff

[winter galleon]

Really i just played with saw for a bit to level its masteries and it didn’t feel bad at all, sure theres other things that are clearly better but it was fine, didnt know it was trashed on

[exotic temple]

Needle pistol is a given. I think it is your best sidearm and with stripped down you can into shooters without taking much damage as long as your stamina is over 50%

[zenith pagoda]

I think the stim tree needs to be buffed rather than giving a direct buff to the class

[final temple]

that’s pretty much it. you have to build for it. other weapons are better and get even better by your talent choices. bone saw is ‘just’ very solid.

[exotic temple]

The attack patterns are a little janky and the heavies sticking like a chain weapon put some people off

[winter galleon]

Remove downside of rampage it feels strange, rework desperado make it feel more like a damage buff then it is currently but compensate by fixing the invulnerability, stim supply has some jank interactions still but overall i think its fine

[exotic temple]

Yeah it’s a little hard to raw dog like some other weapons.

[oak bramble]

why the toughness on the curios? feel like not getting hit is the goal

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah I feel like desperado should just increase suppression hugely and also give suppression immunity, rather than just ranged immunity

[zenith pagoda]

If you're using an auto pistol or gun then with like +100% suppression then nothing will be able to shoot you anyway, but it requires more skill than just immunity

[oak bramble]

why more skill you dont need to hit enemies for suppression

[exotic temple]

I like it because tis but a scratch shuts off if your toughness breaks. I’m moving to all stamina though I need some more git Gud to completely get off of toughness curios

[zenith pagoda]

More skill than just standing there

Also those guns have a lot of spread so shots will miss regardless

[tepid elk]

it is but you will get hit at some point, nobody is perfect and the more leeway you get there the better

[zenith pagoda]

Toughness maxing is required for every class on every difficulty

[radiant swift]

also what else are you going to pick, stamina? you also have unlimited stamina while in your special

a combination of the stam and toughness is perfectly fine though

[final temple]

2 toughness, 1 stamina seems to be the sweet spot yeah

[zenith pagoda]

Only if you're running the attack speed talent

[novel oracle]

The more toughness you have the less the less punishing taking those hits are

[drifting basin]

Does the desperado talent to 'restore cooldown' extend the duration or reduce the cooldown between ability uses?

[final temple]

eh. fair.

[novel oracle]

Between uses

[exotic temple]

I think you are on to something but fat shark would have to do a better job explaining how suppression works.

[zenith pagoda]

I think rampage should have the same thing tbh

Allow better uptime

[zealous ravine]

fatshark explaining things is rare lmao

[novel oracle]

It literally already does habr better uptime

[zenith pagoda]

I think it works like stagger, where you have to reach a certain amount to hit the suppression state

[novel oracle]

Its 30s instead of 45s for its cooldown
And can easily last much longer

[zealous ravine]

adding what power rending and brittleness do to descriptions would already be great

[exotic temple]

I don’t even think it is in the basic training you have to do the advanced training to get to the tutorial on suppression

[exotic temple]

I know how it works, but I imagine 90% of the population who doesn’t look at outside resources would look at the talent and go wtf is suppression and skip the left side of the tree

[fallen arrow]

What blessings do people like taking on the crowbar?

Im using Can Opener and Superiority atm

[zealous ravine]

i use that

[exotic temple]

That’s what I use

[dim moth]

most of the time it doesn't tbh

[fallen arrow]

Oh okay okay

[dim moth]

vast majority of enemies are immune to suppression

and of the enemies that aren't only regular gunners and scab shooters can be practically suppressed

stalkers are borderline immune to suppression

[supple torrent]

Everyday I wake up hoping VD gets deleted.

[astral canyon]

Vd?

[unreal stirrup]

suppression is a mechanic that was made for the version of the game that doesn't exist anymore

like how vet can shoot over cover

[dim moth]

it sucked balls even in that version of the game tho

[supple torrent]

Vultures dodge.

[dim moth]

because stalkers and reapers weren't just borderline immune to suppression they were immune to it

(because of a bug admittedly)

suppression has always been a shitty mechanic that barely exists

[regal halo]

I want to primarily use the dual autpistols but I am not smart and dont know how to make any of it work🙃

[astral canyon]

Desperado
Pickpocket
Vulture
Cdr spec cartel stimm

[zealous ravine]

attack speed stimm!!!! 🔥

[exotic temple]

I’ve abused suppression a little bit but yeah it’s lackluster. I feel they could do more with it by getting rid of immunity and just have mobs that are resistant to it

[fallen arrow]

Thats what I do!!!! With the reload and recoil bit

[exotic temple]

I also like speed loader run and gun and sticky hands

[dim moth]

immediate problem with that that hivescum is actually relevant for

because there is ONE source of useful suppression in this game

[regal halo]

Hm
Funny words magic man
I understand those nodes
Now my other problem comes from the actual gameplay, like what melee should accompany this to help with chonky armor bois because my bb guns don't do nuffin

[dim moth]

braced autogun

[astral canyon]

Shivs

[dim moth]

2.5% of magazine means it gets that bonus every bullet fired btw

shit can fully suppress a reaper in 5 shots

it'd also be a comically large buff to what is by and large already an okay aura on ogryn

+25% damage to suppressed targets

[regal halo]

Assuming corkscrew model?

[dim moth]

Arbites has the same thing but only for themselves as a talent

And it's still pretty alright on them because they account for any amount of suppression

Effectively just being +25% damage on targets that can be suppressed after the first shot

[astral canyon]

Either works but corkscrew has easier access to the strikedown heavies

And the horde clear is still good enough

[regal halo]

I just say that because my melee has to try and carry the burden of killing carapace because my Mac 10s aint doin it

[fiery palm]

The corkscrew shivs or the tactical axes blue or brown one both have their upsides

[exotic temple]

Exactly if fs would make suppression a meaningful mechanic it could solve several problems

[dim moth]

uh

no

[regal halo]

Hm
I never really use the axes so id be down to spruce things up

[dim moth]

it'd create several more that's for sure

[regal halo]

Welp, time to go finish leveling things and come back later to show everyone my setup and cry when Im called an idiot

[exotic temple]

What problems do you think it would cause?

[dim moth]

well big obvious one

stunning everything you point your gun at for several seconds

[fiery palm]

With Desperado active they can put a decent hurt on crushers BTW. Not like super effective but if the situation calls for it you can spray one down with the autopistols

[fallen arrow]

Itd like encourage shooting close range into hordes rather than using melee for the most part

So full auto weapons would be used more like braced auto gun

Certain enemies like poxwalkers should absolutely be resistant if not outright immune to it

[exotic temple]

Oh yeah them and ragers for sure

[fallen arrow]

Melee elites should be immune I think yeah

[exotic temple]

Certain guns should have that effect though, like twin linked stubbed or braced auto guns

Like who in their right mind is going to charge into a squad automatic weapon firing full auto at you

[fallen arrow]

Certain madmen

[exotic temple]

And you could add a evil commissar that shoots people and clears all suppression

[fallen arrow]

I cant see it going well if you can suppress everything immediately, because that sounds very uninteractable for everyone else that isn't doing the suppressing

[fiery palm]

We're fighting chaos cultists

[dim moth]

ragers who know that gun doesn't do good damage >:)

[fallen arrow]

Outright immune might be better, but also I dont think traitor commissars do that

[zealous ravine]

evil commissar that shoots the enemies more than their own teammates

[exotic temple]

The scabs are imperial guard turned traitor

[fallen arrow]

Thinking on it now, how often do traitor commissars happen?

[supple torrent]

I'm pretty sure the traitor moebians shot their commissar.

[fallen arrow]

They did

[exotic temple]

I actually don’t know how often that happens

[fiery palm]

Who of course have a well reasoned list of grievances and are in their right mind?

[fallen arrow]

They're definitely not the first to fall thats for sure

[supple torrent]

It's supposed to be really rare. Since their less likely to be corrupted and a corrupted regiment will shoot their commissar first.

[exotic temple]

I’m just saying idk if they are straight up cultists like the dregs.

[hardy maple]

i mean in war shitty officers have been "taken out by the enemy" im sure

[exotic temple]

Because they have the miniatures so it happens from time to time

[hardy maple]

yknow when I think someone hand painted these, it becomes a lot cooler to really look at the details

[exotic temple]

But I just feel suppression is a system the could get to work better

[fast wind]

commisars you get like 1 a regiment and some regiments go without them

[exotic temple]

Dude I’m so jealous of people who can do that well, my orks look like a kindergarten project

[fallen arrow]

In other words, its likely the only one in the Moebian 6th is dead

So no chaos commissar enemy

[fast wind]

likely that wolfer got them if they had one

[exotic temple]

Yeah I think he offed the commissar in a story or something

[supple torrent]

He did.

[fiery palm]

40k is very screwy with numbers anyway, a single regiment at the scale of combat that is supposedly going on would be a rounding error

[exotic temple]

Now I have a sadge

[fast wind]

just rewatched the wolfer cutscene I forgot about him

he dies in an explosion

[exotic temple]

Yeah for some reason I was thinking you could have multiples in a regiment

[brave beacon]

stem lab question... for a gun scum not worried about rending voltopreme (crit chance) vs wildfire (Finesse damage) i know some of yall love crunching numbers

[fast wind]

could be still alive but I doubt it

wait no later in the scene wolfer shoots him