hivescum-class

[lapis raft]

as i see overalls stats there as well and thats changed

[manic wolf]

Sm2's Las Fusil is as long as a guardsman is tall lmao

[north meteor]

surely I can at least get a 35 let me in as a 29 clear then I can try to get in a 40 with a 35 clear

[lapis raft]

well old, older, i updated the mod like 5 times in like 2 days xd

[keen timber]

Yep seems about right

[zinc heath]

Hmm any good melee build for hive scum ? need to do them sweet penance

[keen timber]

“Hey something seems to be stuck in my gun, can you stick your head up it and tell me what you see?”

[bronze glade]

ahhh yup thanks

i see it now lol

[manic wolf]

Thats very close to an overly brave pickup line

[keen timber]

LMFAO

[tight musk]

I think my stupid ass country is blocking whatever servers Darktide uses or smth, cause I activated my VPN for the game and it loaded me into the Mourningstar, then I went back to character select, disabled VPN and now I can't connect again.

Bruh.

[lilac ermine]

I was doing 1000 heavy kills during stims with shiv

[north meteor]

I still don't have that done

[lilac ermine]

I had stim box build with 15s stims :v

So stims every second

[north meteor]

I should do that

but I just don't

[lilac ermine]

Im like 900 out of 1000

[rustic zinc]

+Toughness on stimm is my last one. Kinda feel like I have to intentionally take damage if I want to make good progress with it

[dense hollow]

just use mk1 dclaw with a short cd stim

[north meteor]

I think I'm at like 600 maybe

[dense hollow]

much faster than shiv

heavy attack is the simplest horizontal sweep ever

[lilac ermine]

I still need that

[north meteor]

yea but that requires me not playing shiv

[manic wolf]

Its one that will just complete itself over time, I dont think its one you need to actively work towards. Its not got any ultra specific conditions, its kinda just play the class

[rustic zinc]

At least the Toughness stimm line is a lot better than I thought it'd be. It's still probably my least favorite, but I really do feel tankier with it.

[lilac ermine]

The heavy strike down has some cleave on it with shiv

[lapis raft]

should have bunch of new features too now :d

[keen timber]

Just use the other mk for hordes if u want that

[amber sundial]

If you wanna speedrun it walk into bomber fire patches then pop stim

[rustic zinc]

Oh, I didn't look carefully. Are you saying I could run a non-toughness stimm and still get credit towards that penance?

[lapis raft]

now only if i can find some nice icon for "uknown" icon for buff

[bronze glade]

super helpful, thanks! i don't need to manually time trial clear times anymore on my phone lmao

[lilac ermine]

Kay I need to check which one I have ive never switched marks for antyhing yet

[manic wolf]

Yeah, its just restore toughness when under the effect of the stim, it doesnt have to be with the toughness stim

[final temple]

Gaunts and Humans have the same toughness and wounds. There is no difference shooting them.

[rustic zinc]

Awesome, thanks for the info!

[wind crane]

do you guys prefer rpg or chem nade in harder content?

[amber sundial]

Keep in mind you still gotta take dmg for the toughness restore to count

[north meteor]

does this mod show party members dps

[keen timber]

Gaunts die in one shot. It’s the warriors that take a fucking age to shoot

[rustic zinc]

I only run Auric Mael (so arguably not "harder") but I find both are great. Honestly blinders are still pretty solid too (esp on desperado builds)

[cedar cairn]

Chem is honestly better but RPG is more fun

[final temple]

and it would be the same for human or astartes sized bolter. the tt is weird in that regard

[lapis raft]

nah only yours

[manic wolf]

This is why I found myself only ever really running the Bolt Sniper or the Stalker when I played SM2

One/Two headshot kills on warriors, easy game

[keen timber]

The las fusil was better for it

[north meteor]

I wanted to roast my friend I always play with (he's better than me)

[lapis raft]

its mostly just for tracking own build did not rly wanted to make scoreboard v2

[keen timber]

I miss the lascannon being the sniper in sm1

[manic wolf]

True, though I hated the chargeup on it lol

[final temple]

before the patch clearly chem. Now it depends. RPG takes out everything below boss at range instantly. chem grenade is ideal to hold positions.

[bronze glade]

all the blitzes are really fucking good

[manic wolf]

They all fill different roles too

[north meteor]

yea fair. You find the best dps for scum yet?

[lilac ermine]

Chem nade is better for most situation but rocket is better for surprise armor pack in tight area

[keen timber]

Blackouts sweep, always

[manic wolf]

Imo its Blackouts > Zook > Fish tin

[north meteor]

blackouts threw me off because they were instant

[keen timber]

They’re so good

[manic wolf]

I still run the Zook tho because instantly being able to evaporate armour is huge value

[rustic lava]

My only problem with chem nades is it dogs on zealot flame nades in doing the same job

[keen timber]

Yeah flames need a buff

[rustic lava]

Zealot flame nades need a buff

[north meteor]

zealot nades should have innate team healing

keep the damage but give healing

[final temple]

how about zealot’s flames get corruption cleanse?

[north meteor]

that would be broken

[mental igloo]

Chem nades kill my fps and people keep throwing them down in situations where they know bursters are coming lmao

[keen timber]

Zealot already has an aura for that

[north meteor]

but im all for this too

[keen timber]

Corruption cleanse isn’t suuper high value imo

[drifting heron]

(A really bad aura that has no reason to exist now)

[manic wolf]

It would be an interesting effect and would make the anti-corruption aura much more of a competative choice

[north meteor]

its only real value is high havoc blight spread

[keen timber]

It used to be capable of healing you past wounds sometimes!

[final temple]

Running supply, I prefer the boomstick, btw

[drifting heron]

Beacon is just obsolete now

Because stimm supply exists

[keen timber]

I need to try double barrel scum

[lilac ermine]

Beacon is good bc its aura and not ability tho

[drifting heron]

Its not good

[keen timber]

Zel has better auras though

[drifting heron]

Its only useful for 1 modifier

[keen timber]

It kinda does nothing often

[lapis raft]

no only bad ones :d

[drifting heron]

And there are better options availible

Its also competing with 15% tdr

[manic wolf]

I dont think its obsolete, no. Its just corruption cleanse is almost always middling in value outside of on puddles modifier in Havoc, the problem is its not strong enough

[lilac ermine]

On the havoc mode having stim box hive scum is alot less dps then the other 2 hive scum

[mighty belfry]

You'd think.

[drifting heron]

Stimm supply makes it more or less useless imo

[tight musk]

1 hive scum with stimm supply can heal corruption and give the entire team extra bonuses from the stimm.

[mighty belfry]

Stimm supply can be really high dps actually lol

[zinc heath]

Eh noob question what's bonesaw horde clear and single target combo i should be using ?

[lapis raft]

want to see hyperviolence uptime now in actual mission to see how much damage it gives. would also like to track hypercritial damage i think that one is tracked as instakill damage but dont have section for it yet

[mighty belfry]

Pickpocket enables some really stupid setups with supply.

[torn ember]

Okay, question: Does Float like a Butterfly apply to ranged attacks? Because the talent reads critical strike chance, which is usually melee-only

[final temple]

I even heard there are ways to… triple stack your buff

[calm aurora]

Akshually

[north meteor]

I normally just use both anyway. When hypercritical doesn't come into play, violence is pretty nice

[manic wolf]

Stim Supply is for a period of time, the aura is always on. The issue with it is that its unable to be compounded by the Zealot themselves, so the other auras always end up being better, because they do compound other elements of the team

[keen timber]

Is this a primaris

Or a firstborn

[lilac ermine]

Yeas

[final temple]

firstborn

[torn ember]

I fucking hate Fatshark's wording of things.
Thanks

[final temple]

primaris are close to thunder warrior size

[lilac ermine]

From guide: "Grants 20% additional crit chance to melee and ranged attacks for 3s; stacks additively with other sources of crit chance. Can be refreshed during active duration."

[keen timber]

Aren’t the primaris taller than the

[lapis raft]

see this is also something thts interesting to track, when you have hypercritical how much worse is hyperviolence uptime on average

[keen timber]

So twice the size of a human got it

[calm aurora]

This.

[lapis raft]

which should be at least possible now that i can at least track hyuperviolenc

[bitter marsh]

SO

[calm aurora]

Twice?

[bitter marsh]

Does the healing stim crate heal over time, or just once after entering the circle?

[lilac ermine]

I havent seen box scum out dps desperado

[calm aurora]

Does the human average is 1.5m?

[final temple]

more like 1.5 human size. I think what gets lost in that comparison is mass. astartes regardless the size are fucking big

[charred bronze]

something I feel but haven't confirmed with both hyper-violence and hyper-critical on an adrenaline build is that elites seem to drop much faster. They die quick anyway, though, so. . . I can't be sure I'm getting hyper-violence enhanced criticals to instant kill them

[rustic zinc]

Guys, warfare isn't about making the Tallest Dudes Possible. I think maybe we should invest in tanks instead.

[calm aurora]

Ah yeah ok if take into account the mass yeh

[charred bronze]

I have no idea how I'd test that effectively tbh

[north meteor]

yea actually that's a good point. I wonder what the uptime is

[final temple]

HC infringes on HV. you might not see the latter to full potential.

[keen timber]

Yeah I don’t just mean they’re two men stacked on top of each other

[mighty belfry]

Well naturally. But that doesn't mean stimm supply isn't capable of high damage either.

[charred bronze]

I have run with one and both, and mixed horde clear seems better with both. But again, thems feelings, not facts

[north meteor]

also, I know hyper critical doesn't apply to hyper violence, but does hyper violence apply to hyper critical?? I

[mighty belfry]

Boomstick on supply builds can go crazy.

[charred bronze]

it sure seems to

[north meteor]

yea it definitely should as it's read

[final temple]

for damage calculation? I suppose. If I am not mistaken, HV is added in a way that HC uses to calculate the kill value

[mighty belfry]

Needler can go crazy too but you need to propagate the toxins.

[keen timber]

It’ll do decent damage but it’s gonna be vastly less than the other setups

[lilac ermine]

It seems like most ppl just choose needle gun and shiv with supply/rampage build its so boring

[charred bronze]

but it's hard to tell because both taxe and shiv can one shot maulers on a crit when you have all your shit going

[torn ember]

Hyper Violence increases all your melee damage so yeah it'll apply, but it doesn't matter as much unless that little bit of extra damage gets you into range for Hyper Critical

[lilac ermine]

And desperado is like uzi and shiv

[north meteor]

yea so this combo isn't as bad as some people claim. I get not having violence uptime being bad, but when you have it it makes hyper crit better

[low harbor]

FLaB is global crit chance

[torn ember]

Fatshark moment

[north meteor]

I bet it definitely can

[charred bronze]

but again, I have no idea how to test effectiveness empirically. Maybe do a bunch of runs with both and look at enhanced scoreboard or something?

[low harbor]

effectiveness of what

[final temple]

here is the thing: what makes HV good is rolling overkill where your previous kills stack up in value. every HC proc resets that. this is an anti synergy.

[low harbor]

scoreboard is not an accurate parameter of effectiveness

[charred bronze]

hyper-violence alone vs hyper-violence + hyper-critical

[low harbor]

this usually depends on the weapon

[north meteor]

yea this is where testing comes into play

it still could have potential more value

[final temple]

there isn’t much to test. HC resets HV.

[low harbor]

hypercrit proc is 0 overkill

with that said

[north meteor]

yea but doesnt value reset after 1s anyway?

[low harbor]

they're usually not for the same enemies

[charred bronze]

only if you don't get another kill

[low harbor]

so taking both is usually not that bad of an idea

[keen timber]

Yeah the real strength of hyperviolence is being able to kill a bunch of poxwalkers and then donk a crusher with all the force of a zealot with a thunder hammer

[near relic]

If Hyper-Critical doesn't proc, then Hyper-Violence probably will. Sure, they don't work together in a sense, but they're not bad to have together.

[final temple]

if you keep killing and the overkill value increases you basically ‘carry on’ that buff. it’s extremely noticable in mixed hordes.

[low harbor]

the most common enemies u build hyperV off of, are not the same enemies that you need hypercrit to 1 tap

[near relic]

HV also makes HC more likely to work against maulers and such

[keen timber]

They aren’t good together because hypercrit actively devalues hyperviolence

[low harbor]

exactly

[keen timber]

Because it continually deletes the damage stockpile on every hypercrit proc

[near relic]

People keep saying this, but it's a narrow view of the talents.

[charred bronze]

unless H-C gets you mauler/rager kills you wouldn't have gotten from HV alone

[low harbor]

no, read what I said above

they're just not for the same enemies

[charred bronze]

I'd rather get the kill now than build to some hypothetical peak

[keen timber]

It’s more investment and you lose functionality

[low harbor]

this usually does happen

[charred bronze]

that was my experience

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1448018099088396308/4785C31.MP4?ex=6939bb71&is=693869f1&hm=618fc934b9594062257bd951b35d65024b494d0c22e57a4da8c9ce11599a9389&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1448018891963105491/3B546C1.MP4?ex=6939bc2e&is=69386aae&hm=0a69b10876c1d53ff74a9f6f397c731f3d04d27b899e97176544fed0fdf17c40&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1448020793580720219/40BA9F1.MP4?ex=6939bdf4&is=69386c74&hm=ecd1553196fc91bdc27c66731004430db2922fab4ef3bfc3a81fe67363031366&

[north meteor]

but violence increases hypercrits value. So my question is does violences value loss matter more over a period of a game?

That being said, I think it does specifically for bonking bosses

[charred bronze]

it's not a mandatory coupling, but I really don't think they're bad together

[north meteor]

losing violence stacks for the boss kinda sucks

[keen timber]

I would think the hypercrit loses a LOT of hyperviolence value

[low harbor]

no

[keen timber]

Because it makes building it up very hard

[charred bronze]

sure but good luck keeping your H-V buff on your boss swing unless you're both surrounded by chaff. Maybe that's H40 shit

[final temple]

but they are for the same targets. you don’t build up HV on any ogryn.

[low harbor]

because hypercrit only matters against enemies u do >50% dmg in 1 crit

[near relic]

HC doesn't work on Ogryn enemies.

[north meteor]

I mean if you have good damage stacked up, its mainly about the initial hit on the boss. You're definitely gonna lose stacks if nothing else is around

[charred bronze]

just seems like a nonsense use case to plan around

both talents primary utility is murdering mixed hordes

[north meteor]

I mean I'm currently running both

[charred bronze]

not boss bonking

[final temple]

that’s the point. neither is for non-human sized targets. you have to build up HV on stuff that HC can reset you on.

[low harbor]

yea, u build hyperV from horde unit kills, which u never needed hypercrit for in the first place
and hypercrit matters most for mauler/rager/mutant

[final temple]

you don’t get to choose if that HC proc happens on a horde unit.

[keen timber]

But with hypercrit u don’t build hyperviolence thats what we’re saying

Because you’ll proc hypercrit and reset it

Makes it impossible to properly utilise

At that point you’re just praying you get lucky

[low harbor]

u do realize that hypercrit is not active if ur crit just 1 shots outright

[final temple]

you are best served to choose one or the other, otherwise you devalue your HV.

[north meteor]

hyperv gives me greater one shot chance for a time if I hyper crit and I find value in that. Where as bosses I pop out the needler

[keen timber]

Pray you don’t Crit the chaff, pray you build up, pray you then Crit the rager

[charred bronze]

have you tested it in practice though? That sounds like an assumption. HV resets all the time in actual combat

[keen timber]

Yeah this

[charred bronze]

again, outside some H40 situation where you're a pool of squad in a sea of enemies. Maybe it's different there

[near relic]

If you crit chaff, it's dying to the base crit anyway. Or you're killing something that would have reset HV anyway because you were too slow to kill it.

[charred bronze]

I don't know, never done havoc

[dense hollow]

my rule of thumb is use hv if you have brumentum on your melee and use hc everywhere else

[low harbor]

lets say rashad / tac axe
u already 1 tap every horde unit regardless of crit, so hypercrit never actually comes into play for hyperV's buildup from horde kills

this is not complicated

[charred bronze]

I think people are presuming that hyper-critical can be wasted on an enemy that doesn't require it. I don't know whether that's the case or not

[near relic]

Hypercritical only happens if an enemy does not die when it is crit

[low harbor]

if ur atk already could crit 1 tap, hypercrit does NOTHING to modify that

u still get overkill as per usual

[final temple]

are you sure it doesn’t proc? cause as far as I am aware this is entirely dependent on the crit dmg value. so regardless if you overkill by one or hpvvalue*2+1 it will proc on the chaff.

[charred bronze]

so it does NOT reset HV on chaff

that matches up with my experience of murdering elites faster fwiw

[low harbor]

yea rashad already 1 taps every horde unit regardless of crit

[charred bronze]

but again, feels are feels

[sturdy linden]

How do you know though. From kuli's description, the hypercritical calculation takes place before you even hit. So as long as you're about to crit, the calculations will happen and HC should proc, right?

[low harbor]

and crits are still 1 taps, where hypercrit doesn't come in, so overkill is built up as per usual

[low harbor]

hypercrit's application is distinctly visible as white number in addition to crit orange number

[charred bronze]

I didn't know that

[low harbor]

I literally sent clips above

[sturdy linden]

I see. Let me check your vids

[charred bronze]

wasn't sure what they were for

[low harbor]

see this.

[charred bronze]

so verified that h-v + h-c can be quite good then

[manic wolf]

In my experience HC is kinda just not valuable if you have HV, in theory you proc it with bigger crits because of HV, but after a point, you have enough stored damage to just delete the enemy anyway

[low harbor]

hypercrit is better described as:
should your melee crit atk deal sufficient damage >50% enemy HP but <100% enemy HP, this atk also deals all remaining dmg needed to 1 hit kill the enemy as melee non-weakspot damage

[charred bronze]

if it doesn't fall off, which happens quite easily outside of a dense horde

[low harbor]

if ur melee crit atk dmg already >100% enemy HP, hypercrit never comes into play

[manic wolf]

I think the major enemy that HC is gonna proc on is Maulers, beyond that I dont think it makes much odds

[low harbor]

mauler, rager, mutant

are the main ones

[charred bronze]

maulers and armored rager weak spot hits

[manic wolf]

Ragers just melt to HV anyway

[final temple]

that gives me food for thought

[low harbor]

and shivs' horde clear I guess

it helps notably

[lapis raft]

rpg in mortis trial has restore 1 charge on special kill, thats so fun xd

[charred bronze]

means you don't need to aim for the legs or whatever

[manic wolf]

Like Ive chopped my way through 20 flak ragers with Chainsword like they were poxies becuase of HV

[livid raven]

there is so much shit in mortis trials i don't think it's even that good with its slow draw and charge speed

[somber frigate]

Anyone think hypercrit will be changed to work with ranged weapons sometime?

[livid raven]

lol no

[low harbor]

while ur at it, also keep in mind that some weapons just inherently build more overkill

like axes

basically all BM weapons

[keen timber]

Unlikely

[manic wolf]

I dont think many weapons would even benifit from HC being on ranged weapons tbh

[lilac ermine]

What axe blessing and perks do you sue with hive scum

[charred bronze]

hyper-critical already works with ranged I believe? Hyper-violence is melee only

[livid raven]

it doesn't

[dense hollow]

brumentum and headtaker

[keen timber]

No it doesn’t

[low harbor]

like 3 would get major benefit

[manic wolf]

The Stub pistols and combat shotguns would, but everything else im not sure it'd make a huge amount of differnce

[radiant swift]

brutal momentum + headtaker/decimator/shred

pref HT

[lilac ermine]

And what axe to use

[charred bronze]

well... that's nonsense

[low harbor]

dual 1911s, vraks 5 IAG, all vig autos

[bronze glade]

brumentul + HT

[bronze glade]

rashad or taxe mkvii

[radiant swift]

Brutal momentum is what makes axes stupid

[keen timber]

I think some of the higher firerate stuff might like it enough

[manic wolf]

Hmm, yeah Viggies maybe

[low harbor]

combat axe is more dps, tac axe is more agile

[radiant swift]

rashad for combat axe choice, taxe is preference

[keen timber]

I feel like without it they’d be kinda bad too though. With it, it swings them to really good

[radiant swift]

without it they suck yeah, the weapon class needs a ground up redesign

[low harbor]

it depends on the weapon but axes 100% (except chainaxe)

[manic wolf]

I would happily trade HC working on guns for the removal of immunity to ranged and axing VD tho

[keen timber]

Lmao

[dense hollow]

i wouldnt really care if vultures dodge became emphatic evasion clone and desperado lost ranged immunity

[lilac ermine]

Ok ty I needed a crusher killing weapon with gun build and mixed horde build for melee so ill use combat axe

[low harbor]

use shiv

combat axe wants a full melee spec build

if ur not going full melee, no point

[dense hollow]

combat axe into crushers on a desperado build is kinda anemic

[lilac ermine]

Kay ill use shivs still

[manic wolf]

Is a fair trade innit. Gun builds get a wider viability on thier weapon choices, but now they have to actually play the game. Win win imo

[final temple]

side question: how many chem toxin stacks does a thrown shiv apply?

[lilac ermine]

Nooooooooo

[livid raven]

3

[lilac ermine]

Thats like double nerf

[livid raven]

actually

just checked

4

+2 on crit

[keen timber]

I don’t think it’d change much

[livid raven]

• 2 on weakspot hit

[keen timber]

I mean from what I hear people want emp nerfed tooo

[manic wolf]

For the very good players, no, but you would see a lot less of "Oh I can just M1 and ignore half the game" bullshit flying around 😄

[keen timber]

I mean hypercrit not vultures

[manic wolf]

Oh, yeah maybe not a huge one, but stuff that isnt as good would become better because most guns will do at least half of an enemy's HP bar on weakspot crit

[lilac ermine]

Hive scum is supposed to shoot horde to death and focus on shooters

And elite and specials

[dense hollow]

all classes should focus on specials

[keen timber]

So it’s supposed to do everything?

[lilac ermine]

Not boss and crusher with desperado

[keen timber]

Hive scum should do a lot of damage and be squishy. It shouldn’t have vultures making them immune to damage

[manic wolf]

Yeah... I mean the core gameplay loop is the horde getting in the way of you killing the actual run-ending stuff, which is highly reductive, but thats the core design of a horde game

[keen timber]

The boss damage is still pretty good. It’s no thammer zealot or vet or whatever, but regardless

[dense hollow]

this is the true threat of bulwark and armor walls, the inability to shoot specials through them

[keen timber]

Yeah

[manic wolf]

Yeup, mobile area denial

[keen timber]

I mean crushers are decently dangerous too

[bronze helm]

Could someone please recommend me a good build with Stimm Supply?

[radiant swift]

armor walls*

[manic wolf]

They're dangerous in large numbers, one Crusher in a vacuum, not so much

[granite pulsar]

Crushers are pretty pathetic if you have the needle gun now

Overall I'm impressed by how versatile a shiv + needle meele build is

[keen timber]

Nothing is dangerous alone

[manic wolf]

They're not dangerous compared to the truly gargantuan amount of problems a trapper you cant see or a Bulwark blocking a group of flamers are tho

[radiant swift]

still get in the way of specials though, which is kinda the danger of most things

[limber cradle]

Crushers when I simply gun them down with like 25 percent rending and a high rof gun

[manic wolf]

Trappers are 😄

Because they cheat

And shoot through chainlink fences and one atom wide gaps in geometry 😄

[lilac ermine]

Shiv needle gun is more op then desperado build bc it has no weaknesses

[granite pulsar]

Ya I'm expecting a nerf

[dense hollow]

im expecting a slap on the wrist

just like arbites

[north meteor]

Yea if Arbite and Psyker hasn’t been nerfed….

[keen timber]

Melee builds struggle more with ranged damage because they don’t have as reliable close.

[manic wolf]

If Desperado doesnt get sledgehammered then FS are gonna have another Psyker problem, an that needs whacking too

[zenith fern]

Desperado allowing you to sprint is insane should have same penalty from Castigator Stance unable to sprint

[limber cradle]

I kinda don't expect heavy nerfs for a lot of reasons, Arb and Psyker being one, OG Power Sword nerf being another.

[keen timber]

Nah, not even

Scum is a fast class

Arby is not

[zenith fern]

Dodge slide

[limber cradle]

Okay what if I have run and gun anyway

[keen timber]

And?

[zenith fern]

You get quite a distance

[somber frigate]

Is desperado really that good?

[zenith fern]

https://tenor.com/view/wide-cat-wider-gif-3879805434184283975

[keen timber]

The damage boosts aren’t really anything special, but total immunity to ranged damage is significant

[limber cradle]

The best part of it is either infinite ammo or ranged immunity

[dense hollow]

competing with flame staff psyker in damage on h40s and getting more damage in some cases is strong by definition

[tight musk]

I should try the big mean Mk VIII braced auto with stimm supply and pickpocket.

[limber cradle]

But pickpocket and Vultures also give you infinite ammo and immunity

[somber frigate]

Pickpocket gives the infinite ammo so I kinda ignore that. How can desperado compete with flame staff though

Are you sure that isn’t just pickpocket

[limber cradle]

Its both

Pickpocket restocks your ammo

[zenith fern]

Infinite ammo when active, kills restore the active ability to lets you keep using it as much you can

[limber cradle]

Desp makes it so you don't pull from reserve on reload

[keen timber]

I like how a minor node giving infinite ammo is what makes the ability doing it ok LOL

[limber cradle]

Desperado is true "infinite ammo" cause you can have no ammo and get a reload

[somber frigate]

Yeah but I’ve seen builds In games that don’t use desperado at all and still don’t run out of ammo despite spraying a ton

[limber cradle]

Pickpocket works off kills

[lapis raft]

hmm expected tad more but also half the trials i spent fucking around with infinite rpg charges, it was around 33% at start which is closer to what i would expect i guess

[keen timber]

Kills extending abilities is pretty bog standard for buffs now tbh.

[zenith fern]

Vraks desperado is more fun than uzis

[tight musk]

Desperado also gives you a full reload even if you have zero ammo on you, and then you can keep reloading while it's active.

[zenith fern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1377109813854736494.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=TheSilly

[livid raven]

i disagree

i think you should hip fire a vigilant autogun

[zenith fern]

also restore toughness when activating?

[livid raven]

it does

[zenith fern]

I forgot but rampage does

[limber cradle]

Vraks IAG desperado way less fun than Macs for me tbh

[livid raven]

i kinda hate the vraks on scum

[limber cradle]

If I wanted to shoot things without mobility I'd play vet

[keen timber]

Macs slap so hard

[lapis raft]

also big rpg damage :d

[north meteor]

so base uptime without hypercrit is probably around 33%?

[keen timber]

They’re just fun

[livid raven]

i should try a braced autogun one of these days

[somber frigate]

Personally I think it would be cool if we kept pickpocket but changed desperado infinite ammo to a reload buff or something and have the ranged invulnerability require you to have dodged recently rather than just always. I don’t feel strongly about this though just some noob thoughts

[manic wolf]

Pickpocket should replace Vulture's Dodge as a subnode and should only be active during the ult and be locked out from non-desperado builds

[limber cradle]

They're stylish and fun ime, way moreso than Vraks

[keen timber]

Desperado having infinite ammo is infinitely more ok than pickpocket im ngl

[zenith fern]

it fun but I think the slower fire rate and mag makes you have less time to kill with ability on

[lapis raft]

well its probably better on stuff that overkills more consistently i guess

[keen timber]

Pickpocket is perma infinite ammo, desperado at least had downtime

[limber cradle]

I want my 15 percent stacking movement speed

[lapis raft]

instead of shivs

[north meteor]

oh fair

[limber cradle]

Pickpocket does require you to kill things

[keen timber]

Very hard sure

[limber cradle]

Ik thats a very low bar but

Look I've seen people complain about their pickpocket kills getting stolen so for some people apparently it is lmfao

[somber frigate]

As desperado is now I feel like it actually seems worse than pickpocket unless you really need that rending, so if pickpocket got removed I’d be like. Ehhh. Idk. Maybe Im wrong

[limber cradle]

Desperado feels kinda redundant with Pickpocket/VD

[sturdy linden]

Whoever bitches about that should just delete their scum and never play it again

[somber frigate]

Worse in that you’re not taking stimm supply with desperado

Or rampage I guess

[dense hollow]

15% rending and 15% ranged damage is good if thats all ur gonna be doing

[astral canyon]

If ganger had something like the rumbler as a ranged weapon i could see the issue with pickpocket/desperado

But like

[limber cradle]

I genuinely don't get why people don't rally this hard against psyker but scum seems to have fucked their wives and dogs

[zenith fern]

It does make quick work against armor affected by rending and quite funny boss damage

Shredding through an entire rager pack

[icy scaffold]

I wish Ogryn had a similar ability to pickpocket so you could just shoot all game without stealing all the ammo

[manic wolf]

Im convinced at this point that people who think Desperado/VD/Pickpocket are OK to have in their current state have formed an emotional attachment to it

[keen timber]

Yep pickpocket threshold with the dual autos is like 2 mags or so, which is more than enough.

[sturdy linden]

Idk about others, but even the best purg psyker I've seen doesn't invalidate the game as hard as a half decent despacito scum

[dense hollow]

after complaining for so long ppl gave up

[rustic lava]

Man why you salty about the tissue paper class having powerful abilities

[limber cradle]

Then you haven't met a good one man, cause I've been in havoc games where I do nothing cause of Purge Psykers

[keen timber]

It’s new. Also dogs find it very attractive and they don’t like psykers.

[odd jetty]

Executioners stance is 25% ranged damage 25% weakspot 10% toughness regen plus spread and recoil reduction with an easy 100% uptime. Desperado needs to allow cooldown timer to start when you pop it. Even with that it is still weaker

[keen timber]

I don’t think scum is that good. Very powerful, ammo is very strong. It’s not soloing everything like that

[lapis raft]

ok yea i think hypercritical has 'instakill' damage type so i will try to add tracking for it

[manic wolf]

Tissue paper class is a pretty big self-report there bud 😄

[sturdy linden]

It is incredibly funny to see someone comparing infinite ammo never stop shooting scum to the most ammo-whore playstyle in the game

[limber cradle]

I just don't give a fuck about it when psyker exists

[sturdy linden]

[rustic lava]

We have established that the dev priorities are fun now and not balance for balance sake

[limber cradle]

"Oh no, a second class playstyle with no resource management and w+m1 gameplay"

[keen timber]

Lack of balance results in lack of fun however

[sturdy linden]

Yeah i mean it's whatever, we'll have our "fun" for a couple months

[keen timber]

The first one is ok because checks notes they have to stop shooting sometimes to quell peril

[sturdy linden]

Then hopefully we get some tweaks

Idc

[somber frigate]

They do seem to try to keep things from being too insane. Like how hive scum abilities and stimms can’t be affected by cdr stuff while active. Which while annoying when you look at the cdr stimm is probably for the best probably

[limber cradle]

Call it reloading then idfk

[astral canyon]

I mean that if hive scum had a weapon as problematic as the rumbler to give infinite ammo to, i would have an issue with pickpocket/desperado's existence

[keen timber]

Exactly

[astral canyon]

I wouldnt mind them being adjusted

[icy scaffold]

It’s a more mobile recon las vet except it has more problems against armor and less teamplay since it doesn’t get something like Vet’s shout.

[sturdy linden]

This was literally my 2nd ever Auric on desperado scum. I really don't know what to tell you beyond this lol.

[limber cradle]

In the grand scheme of things I don't mind it getting adjusted but it's so wildly funny to me that psyker has been doing this shit for years and now it's a massive issue.

[keen timber]

Ok but vet is gonna run exe anyway

[charred bronze]

if by 'quell peril' you mean' explode like an atom bomb and then resume blasting' then yes

[keen timber]

I need to get the mod that stops exe assblasting my fov

[charred bronze]

vulturado is godlike

[limber cradle]

Dude if you have even a basic comprehension of psyker or building them you're not gonna explode

[zealous ravine]

sorry they removed psyker perils in last update

[charred bronze]

ironically, for the skill based class, it's just about as skill free as any arbites build I've ever played. Adrenaline is much more challenging, and way less effective

[somber frigate]

Not saying you’re wrong or right but was it with randoms? Like I’d prefer to see multiple scoreboards than just one.

[keen timber]

Ok but desperado scum doesn’t exactly bring unique mechanics to the table and its not like darktide players are known as being reliable and unlikely to sandbag

[charred bronze]

No no, I mean venting shriek explode on purpose. Hence the 'resume blasting' part

[limber cradle]

Sorry, my bad then.

[sturdy linden]

Yeah I only quickplay. I have I think 1 more scoreboard screenshot with Desperado because I just try to not play it if I can avoid it

[pallid quail]

idk man i see it all the time. theres a very loud group that wont be satisfied until we go back to day 1 skill trees and every weapon is as weak as dclaw and ilas

[near relic]

Not at the moment. Peril is bugged. Can't blow up with anything but Inferno or EK's zap.

[sturdy linden]

Nuance is hard I know

[dense hollow]

desperado and vultures dodge is just as brainrot as arbites

[limber cradle]

All I see is people bitching and moaning about desp in here but the psykers get to live in peace.

[pallid quail]

i guess theyve all migrated

[sturdy linden]

Nerf them a bit too idc

[charred bronze]

I'm not bitching. I like it

[somber frigate]

But ive been saying I actually want desperado buffed

[charred bronze]

I just think it's ironic that vulturado is skill testing as hell until you, y'know, enable vulturado, then you're a demigod

[somber frigate]

My golden era would be a desperado buffed and pickpocket reworked

[icy scaffold]

Tbf, a more moderate power level with appropriately balanced enemies and difficulties would be ideal. But yeah

[pallid quail]

but its true

[zenith fern]

https://youtu.be/5szMT_UOKlY?si=D6IUgw_sIPB2Fudh more good content

[lilac ermine]

WHA

[somber frigate]

My dark ages sad times is desperado left the way it is and pickpocket reworked

[charred bronze]

you can't just nerf daps to fix vulturado though. Vraks is just as good.

Sadly, I am expecting a nerf. Probably to vulture's dodge itself to some damage reduction number instead

[tropic crag]

most people who talk about the class needing nerfs are being really reasonable about it, same discourse happens in ogyrn chats and the same thing happened on release arby

[lilac ermine]

Hive scum takes so much skills to do good with desperado

[manic wolf]

Lule

[keen timber]

I mean vultures dodge needs a gutting

[keen timber]

LMAO

[somber frigate]

It just takes game knowledge to know what weapon to abuse

And how to play fundies

Thats about it I think

[zenith fern]

There I say RPG having 3 ammo is overkill

After the buffs

[keen timber]

Nah not even. U can use basically anything

[zenith fern]

Should have been 2 rockets still

[near relic]

Scum is a very strong class that requires more skill than some others to perform well. I don't think it needs a nerf. I think other classes should probably be brought to the same level and better optimized for their niches. Psyker obviously needs 4 more Scrier's Gaze buffs.

[tropic crag]

desp you don't even need to know the fundamentals, and for the first point they don't need to know that either, they just need to know how to look up one of the videos or guides that tells them which one

[dense hollow]

do you guys think desperado&vultures dodge scum teaches the worst habits among all the classes in the game

because i do

[lilac ermine]

True on first 3 sentences

[somber frigate]

I mean Thats some gsme knowledge, looking up a guide. Doesn’t mean it’s hard. Was trying to imply it’s easy

[sturdy linden]

Arbi is a bit worse imo

[dense hollow]

castigators stance is up there

[tropic crag]

i get you, i was implying its even easier than that

[dense hollow]

i think its close between those two in terms of teaching bad habits

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. Desperado is like the single lowest skill ceiling I think we've ever had in Darktide and that includes stuff like Ogryn being utterly unkillable, Psyker having infinite cleave and old Vet being able to drop all aggro just by standing still

[wind crane]

what blessings are you guys running with autopistols?

[lilac ermine]

No psyker has smite and fire

[manic wolf]

Like Desperado allows you to just not interact with nearly all of the game systems. You shoot gun and win, there is no nuance, no decision making, you just hold down the trigger, ignore basically all incoming damage and win the game

[near relic]

Nah, SG needs to give 50% attack speed, 8 stacks of Soulblaze on hit, 100% increased cleave, and 25% rending. It needs at least two more paragraphs of description.

[keen timber]

Vultures dodge and ranged immunity need to be changed

[keen timber]

I don’t think I agree here. It’s pretty dumb, it’s not that bad

[lilac ermine]

Psyker is like only class that can ignore 50 crushers and maulers and ragers coming at them

[winter galleon]

Scum has the slowest ttk on bosses and mixed hordes. And without abusing vultures dodge it takes the fewest hits to kill. The class is overly strong because of a few select talents (vultures dodge and pickpocket) tbh it needs a proper rework and shouldn’t have released half baked

[near relic]

What.

[winter galleon]

Ofc it is a druggie class so maybe half baked was the intention

[near relic]

Wait, lowest or slowest?

[manic wolf]

It is that dumb. Even for how busted Psyker and Ogryn are at the moment isnt a patch on being able to run through a mission and be effectively immune to anything that might pose a threat. Its really egregious

[winter galleon]

Slowest i meant

[sturdy linden]

Can we pin this

[keen timber]

The difference is scum does this with gunners and shotgunners

[sturdy linden]

8/8 gr8 b8 m8

[tropic bough]

you better watch out people will say your stupid and coping

[tropic crag]

not even a rework, just some number changes and and maybe modifiers to things like vultures dodge and it'll stay strong but fall down into the "still fun" range which is all thats required for balancing in this game

[lilac ermine]

Psyker can do with bubble shield

If psykers weakness should be shooters and gunners just make bubble have less health

[near relic]

Don't need bubble. Just need Empathic Evasion.

[keen timber]

You’re saying this, but psyker needs to be hit too

[lilac ermine]

Whats that

[keen timber]

Like ur not deflecting here

[near relic]

I am a Psyker main. I walk menacingly at H40 gunners and take no damage.

[near relic]

Ranged immunity on crit.

[keen timber]

Just pointing out other things that need their kneecaps broken

[lilac ermine]

Hive scum competes same as good vet and psyker and ogryn

[tropic crag]

tbh all the classes are crazy strong, which is why i don't think scum needs alot of work, just a bit to bring it down to crazy strong instead of "ignoring the game its so good"

[winter galleon]

Honestly all classes need kneedcapped as well as enemy types just to bring power creep down so can properly balance

[lilac ermine]

And arbiter

[keen timber]

Yep this

[dense hollow]

armor hp buffs made things that were behind fall more behind

[lilac ermine]

If you ever play with good ppl on those classes hive scum does almost same as them

[keen timber]

This is not the argument you think it is

And it ignores the issues

Scum dealing damage is fine

[tropic crag]

naw we're in a pretty fun zone atm for most classes, theres a couple of things that should be looked at but the balance is in a fun area as a whole for the game compared to other points

[keen timber]

Scum should not have desperado and vultures

Melee scum is fine

[near relic]

I am of the opinion that Scum is largely fine. Toxin might need some rebalancing, but otherwise I am not concerned.

[manic wolf]

Using Psyker as a scapegoat to justify gamebreaking mechanics is exactly a scapegoat. We all know Psyker needs a sledgehammer, them not getting one yet isnt reason to justify FS adding in further gamebreaking stuff. If there is no pushback against these sorts of things, then stuff like this will keep being added and the game will cease to be fun and lose a lot of its skill ceiling potential, which is a good portion of why so many people come back to 'tide games.

[zealous ravine]

smite and purg defo need a rework

then remove scriers 50% peril quell

[tropic crag]

vultures dodge should have some limiter put on it, the other infinite dodge the class has also comes with a downside if you keep using it (zero stam)

[zealous ravine]

trauma could have less stagger too

[lilac ermine]

Vet generates 10% toughness per second while exe stance is up which makes them immune to melee and ranged basically so its similar

[charred bronze]

I disagree. It's fine for a class to have fun cooldowns. It just needs a little tweaking

[near relic]

I have only been playing melee scum, so my knowledge of the ranged stuff is limited.

[leaden fable]

Pretty crazy they took the "vent your peril" unique mechanic from shriek and just handed it to scriers which was already giving bonuses, while also having the vent on shriek

[keen timber]

Desperado ranged immunity specifically. The ability itself is fine. Vultures dodge specifically, vultures js fine

[manic wolf]

Play one game with ranged Scum, come back here and tell me it doesnt break the game.

[near relic]

10% toughness per second is basically nothing on higher difficulties. It will not save you from anything.

[charred bronze]

vulturado is substantially stronger. It puts out numbers like flamestaff psyker played well

[leaden fable]

Not to mention the whole "stay at full peril (with massive bonuses) for ages" using scriers

[keen timber]

The lone standard shooter:

[near relic]

I mean, I was outdamaging inferno psykers as melee scum.

[charred bronze]

its biggest weakness is substandard crusher killing tbh

[winter galleon]

Tbh though desperado on its own is a bit underwhelming as a damage cd and is so strong because infinite ammo and dodge and vultures just stacks onto that. Could prob merge it all into one ability to make it a true cannon and do something else instead so that doesnt have perma uptime on being invincible

[lilac ermine]

🗣️

They need to give desperado more rending

[leaden fable]

Melee scum pulls insane numbers if you have a melee to facilitate fighting a variety of enemies and keeping you in fights

[charred bronze]

I believe that, but like others have said. Try a semi-decent desperado + vulture's dodge build, run through the map shooting everything. You will witness the emperor's light

[winter galleon]

Even higher highs but give it lower lows in line with druggie class

[tropic crag]

i basically only play melee scum to, but yeah with vultures dodge they can be immune to most things without even trying, its kind of over the top and should have some limiter... it doesn't have to be huge just some limiter

[charred bronze]

if they nerf the spec, that's the only reasonable buff

if they buff anything at all

[leaden fable]

I should not be able to clear crushers using dual auto pistols just because rending is already so strong imo

[lilac ermine]

I was thinking exe stance should have like 100% rending on headshot hits tho

[tender forge]

Stimms get ya stimms here

[near relic]

I have tried it. I did fine, but I wasn't very engaged. It wasn't fun for me. Melee scum, I become a blender. Only real concern is running too far away from my team looking for more things to stab.

[lilac ermine]

So you can use sniper weapons

[tropic crag]

you're supposed to take out your melee weapon for that

[manic wolf]

This was an event mission. Not even a Maelstrom and this was a hybrid build. Pure ranged Scum can put out more than this, substantially more, with a lot less risk to them and with infinite ammo. This was for all intents and purposes a melee build with Desperado and no supporting nodes for Desperado.

[radiant swift]

real

[leaden fable]

Or the boom bringer

Or any source of chem stacks

[charred bronze]

sure, but we're not talking engagement here, we're talking raw power. Vulturado is substantially more powerful in terms of its ability to clear threats

[lilac ermine]

If psyker dont need to take out melee weapon why should hive scum

[charred bronze]

except maybe crusher packs

[tropic crag]

yeah, you're meant to use the rest of your kit basically lol

[final temple]

all I witnessed is the vanishing of my nasal cartilage and the staining of my breeches after huffing all that stimm.

[charred bronze]

and safer

[amber sundial]

you already have a rending node and rending stim you will take your 30% carapace dmg and like it

[leaden fable]

They both should

[tender forge]

100% rending after 40 seconds

[tropic crag]

they should also be taking out their melee weapons, the ones who don't are the bad players don't less work

[keen timber]

This has to be bait at this point

[near relic]

If a Psyker doesn't take out their melee weapon for a crusher in their face, they die.

[leaden fable]

Darcy 2.0 over here

[lilac ermine]

I play with trauma psyker

[keen timber]

Holy shit Darcy

That’s a name I haven’t heard in a while

[leaden fable]

Complete with vet bias

[lilac ermine]

They never take out melee really

[north meteor]

why is your psyker low damage

[keen timber]

Can we petition for Darcy unban

[foggy lantern]

Is that the lightning staff? It's been a hot minute since I played psyker.

[amber sundial]

truama is floor explosion

[lilac ermine]

It makes grenade explosion on floor

[charred bronze]

because scum does the same thing they do, faster

[amber sundial]

EK is lightning staff

[charred bronze]

kill first, get all the green circles

[near relic]

Crushers get, I believe, 6 seconds of stagger immunity after being knocked down. H40 crushers have like 10k HP, and Trauma does maybe 1200 damage. Stay on your staff and you will get splattered.

[leaden fable]

Ever since someone referred to it as the "big shoe" I can only see it as that

[random shuttle]

Dang I love the "BOOM" moments.

[foggy lantern]

That's what I use, and I do it in a crit build iirc

[amber sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/big-shoe-meme-lmfao-big-shoe-lmfao-gif-11055649701649177008

[lilac ermine]

All I know is they keep exploding their feet and never rlly get hit on havoc

[radiant swift]

big shoe

[zealous ravine]

lmfao

[manic wolf]

Because Desperado is broken on high RoF weapons and everything was dead before they could apply stacks of burn to things

[tender marten]

yea only shitty psykers stay hard locked on their staff the entire time, real pros know that once you knock them down the first time you gotta swap to your blitz so that you can use your empty hands to tie their shoelaces together

[keen timber]

Lmfao

[zealous ravine]

tie the big shoe shoelaces

[amber sundial]

fuck what do i do this crusher uses velcro

[near relic]

Possibly. But less fun. I also haven't seen any Desperado Scum do well on H40, which is maybe just because they're bad. The good scum I have seen have all been rampage or stimm supply.

[tender marten]

youre dead, sorry

[keen timber]

What blitz do endgame psykers run now? Is it just all smite or is there some brain burst in there too

[lilac ermine]

Trauma staff is more broken then purg

[keen timber]

Heretics don’t use Velcro because that’s what adherents to the god emperor use

[zealous ravine]

the best psyker blitz is forgetting you have a blitz

[keen timber]

He’s clearly an undercover ogryn

[lilac ermine]

But needs more input

[charred bronze]

I don't play havoc, so I have no idea. Maybe the constant crushers diminish them? I dunno

[near relic]

I had an Inferno H40 game where I did more ranged damage than Soulblaze. It was gross. Everything was dead before I could spread cleansing flame.

[leaden fable]

Purg psykers on their way to m1 spam for 30 minutes and get top damage

[charred bronze]

not that the game should be balanced around h40, ever

[foggy lantern]

Frenzy Chaxe with attack speed stimm is basically loyalist Rager.

[zealous ravine]

discount rager

[lilac ermine]

Whats inferno mean

[amber sundial]

purg "gameplay" is just the gif of that one dude getting flashbanged over and over again

[near relic]

The fire staff.

[keen timber]

I hate when powerlevel gets so stupid that you end up being unabale to balance properly lmao

[keen timber]

Lmao

[lilac ermine]

Oh lol

[amber sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/flashbang-gif-22572243

[charred bronze]

I honestly hate playing alongside purgatus or flamer. Can't see a fucking thing. Might as well be a lights out mission

I wanna be able to turn the opacity down on that shit

[zealous ravine]

turn your brightness down

[keen timber]

At least u can see the luminescence on enemies in lights out

[charred bronze]

the brightness isn't the problem. it's the opacity

[zealous ravine]

uhhh kill kill your psyker kill them

[charred bronze]

FRIENDLY FIRE ON

haha can you imagine DT with ff? jfc

[tender marten]

i kinda want friendly fire

[amber sundial]

veterans with exe stance on their way to mimic BH from vermintide 2

[charred bronze]

I do not

[tender marten]

not gonna pretend i dont

[amber sundial]

one shotting teammates

[charred bronze]

it'd be a miserable experience

and the toxicity. Toxicity for miles and miles

as far as the eye can see

[keen timber]

Scum pretending they’re OE spamming bullets directly into ur back perma the second you try and melee

[amber sundial]

cant wait for a hivescum to rocket the back of my head while im soloing a monstrosity

[somber frigate]

Desperado and Pickpocket rework idea from a noob

Desperado - provides a ramping damage amp while sprinting, dodging and sliding, all stacks lost if reloading when not sliding. Reloading at 25% or less while sliding increases reload speed by 30%, keeps damage amp stacks. Ranged immunity replaced with a 15 sprint dodge angle (stackable with the node).

Pickpocket - ranged kills act like sample collector, weak spot ranged kills 2%. Note: 2% would be the max stimm cd reduction on any kill.

[broken bear]

I love desperado fucking up my shots cuz I can’t distinguish a burster in a horde

[amber sundial]

tbh i dont think we need 2 sample collectors

[broken bear]

No

[tender marten]

me hearing a wave of bursters but im already in the middle of my desperado and magdumping: good luck everybody else

[keen timber]

Not a fan of that desperado shit, the ability is already not an issue outside of the ranged stuff

[broken bear]

“Stacks lost if not sliding”

What kinda fuck u is that

[somber frigate]

Reloading when not sliding*

[keen timber]

I don’t want to have to cosplay a chimp suped up on adderall to use my ability thanks

[broken bear]

That’s worse

[bitter marsh]

I wish the purple brittle juice visual lasted as long as the actual debuff

[haughty slate]

All desperado needs is "Reduced ranged damage by x%" instead of a full immunity. Give it faster reload speed to compensate.

[broken bear]

That’s a fair way

[radiant cosmos]

Despacito Scum are probably not op in high havoc because their carapace damage isn't the best and more importantly, Crusher overheads ignore Vulture's Dodge

[amber sundial]

reduce ranged dmg by 50% up to 75% in close range

already incentivizes being close range with the extension

[keen timber]

Yeah I like the incentivised short range

[tender marten]

yall are too myopic, what desperado really needs is to spawn a tumbleweed if you ult with a revolver as your equipped range

[amber sundial]

what time is it though...

[sturdy linden]

1. there ARE other enemies in the game besides Crushers, that are also threatening in a lot of situations
2. A lot of high level players have actually confirmed it is fucking busted in Havoc

[tender marten]

also the tumbleweed increases your crit headshot damage by eight thousand percent. obviously

[amber sundial]

cant really tell in these hive cities

[haughty slate]

https://tenor.com/view/mc-meme-overwatch-mc-cree-high-noon-gif-21900345

[charred bronze]

people are going to be glib. I think this is a decently thought out design, but it's a radical departure from what's there. I think people would rather see that design tweaked than scrapped and replaced

[broken bear]

And it only works with revolver, if you try with any other weapons you die.

[somber frigate]

I mean right now you don’t get anything but ranged immunity, great sprint buffs and infinite ammo with desperado, I didn’t touch the other two nodes which remain the same. Just figured giving scum more skill expression was a good idea. Sad to hear the whole idea sucks though, oh well

[radiant cosmos]

What I meant is more that high Havoc has enough Crusher/Mauler density that the dodge class can't reliably just avoid them like in Auric

[keen timber]

Nobody wants to see desperado require jumping through a fuckload of hoops to utilise the ability

[foggy lantern]

"It's Hiiiive Noon!"

[keen timber]

Desperado gives damage boosts and rending. It also has an extension

It’s fine as an ability

[charred bronze]

requiring slide reloads is a bridge too far, I agree

[haughty slate]

https://tenor.com/view/clint-eastwood-nod-cowboy-stare-dead-eye-gif-5568984

[somber frigate]

It would do that in addition to that node

[broken bear]

Like the current ways desperado and rampage work is “hit things or shoot things”

I don’t know a single ability requiring movement techs to maintain

[somber frigate]

I didn’t touch the two nodes that you can pick with desperado

[amber sundial]

cant wait for me to start my reload .0001 second too early into my slide and oops, there goes all my stacks!

[broken bear]

That’s a keystone thing

[keen timber]

Yeah this

[broken bear]

Like keystones requiring movement? Sure go for it

That’s inexorable judgement

Ezpz cool

[haughty slate]

And definitely not requiring sliding

[broken bear]

Abilities? No way Jose

[keen timber]

Abilities with a duration requiring movement

[tender marten]

i want a keystone called conditioning where every time you vault/climb your next jump is increased by 10% stacking infinitely

[keen timber]

What’s the play pattern?

[dim moth]

be p cool tho

[foggy lantern]

There is one that requires standing still tech.

[keen timber]

Activate ability > run in a circle to generate damage buff > start shooting?

[broken bear]

This cracked me up

[somber frigate]

Yeah I did wonder about that. Maybe vulture could use that? I kinda just want sliding and dodging to play a more important part than just normal fundamentals to scum personally. Feels thematic. I like the infinite sprint and dodging melee on sprint sliding so far

[haughty slate]

I am much more interesting in Rampage/Adrenaline rework

[near relic]

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Scrolls#Scroll_of_Icarian_Flight

[haughty slate]

they're so mid

[dense hollow]

if ur talking about marksman focus i dont think it does anymore

[thin crag]

stab dodge stab stab
dodge x5 stab x10 dodge repeat

[broken bear]

I’m sorry but sliding would be the worst one 😭 maybeee sprinting but i feel like that’s pushing it

[charred bronze]

it already does, man. Slippery Character is fucking incredible

[keen timber]

It’s a ranged ability

[radiant cosmos]

Me after vaulting a fence 40 times: https://imgur.com/gallery/when-you-read-scroll-of-icarian-flight-out-loud-2C3f5mB

[tender marten]

hello fellow old

[somber frigate]

Yeah i said i like those nodes

I want more

[broken bear]

I mean it’s already ingrained

[thin crag]

replace the stab with shoot

[charred bronze]

regardless, the design is too close to zealot momentum the way you presented it

[broken bear]

We have the melee immune in slide

And dodging is well… needed cuz scum will get 3 tapped

[tight musk]

I tried 2 different builds with braced autogun and I just...I feel like I'm not killing enough things fast enough. Idk, I can't tell if I lack damage or if I lack the means to spread that damage out fast enough.

Then again maybe I also just got not very good teammates, we had 3 scum and 1 zealot, zealot rushed ahead of everyone, died and disconnected, and the other 2 scum also died and DCed, and I got replacement bot, arbites and veteran, and I can't really tell if vet and arbites were good or not. But I was in the thick of it with all of them yet I was the last man standing. I tried to get to them but I was already so low on health that a dog pounce straight up killed me.

[broken bear]

You don’t need to double up the need to slide with scum

It’s just redundant

[radiant cosmos]

does the current high diff meta use the dual autos with despacito or does another gun work better

[foggy lantern]

That might be the one, and I know weakspot kills give you movement time without losing stacks but idk if that is what you mean.

[keen timber]

Spitting facts

[broken bear]

I fw the dual autos

[amber sundial]

MMF no longer requires crab walking

[dense hollow]

the keystone was reworked to not have movement cuck you

[amber sundial]

the vet rework removed that

[charred bronze]

yeah, if you're not sprinting, dodging, and sliding as scum, you're literally playing the class wrong. It doesn't require more incentive than 'this is how you get to live'

esp with melee immunity on slide

[somber frigate]

Dual autos seem good for ranged builds

[charred bronze]

which is so so so good

[broken bear]

Dual autos fuck

[somber frigate]

Maybe not the best but it’s gotta be up there

[broken bear]

They are a carnal desire on scum

[charred bronze]

daps and vraks iag fuck for desperado.

[fierce aurora]

For shivs, what are good all-round traits to pick?

[haughty slate]

Pretty sure that's considered "meta" right now. I've been fooling around with a shredder autopistol build that actually fucks. It's really stupid.

[foggy lantern]

I haven't played vet in a while, so I'm not up to date on the rework.

[broken bear]

Carapace/Unyielding/Flak

dump stat mobility

Uncanny

Riposte/precog

There’s ur shiv guide

[somber frigate]

I want to make a bolt pistol scum it sounds funny

[amber sundial]

rework basically transfered "The Build™" from zealot to vet

[charred bronze]

unyielding + carapace, uncanny + riposte

[amber sundial]

vet is entirely stacked with dmg nodes above his right keystone

[fierce aurora]

Thx @broken bear

[somber frigate]

Max reload and attack speed bolt scummer

[fierce aurora]

Appreciate it

[broken bear]

Yup

Shiv enthusiast I am 😼

[somber frigate]

Hip fire the pistol

[tender marten]

love my slashies

[charred bronze]

it's been tried. It'd be an okay sidearm for adrenaline, but the existence of the needler makes other sidearms a poor choice

and it's not a suitable main weapon for despo

[somber frigate]

I mean I imagine everything has been tried

I just like fun stuff

[tender marten]

lethal prox bistol + rocket

[radiant cosmos]

if only the reload didn't cuck you out of half your despacito duration

[charred bronze]

go for it then! I find it too slow to be fun on scum

and the recoil impulse is the worst

[somber frigate]

I might end up just using pickpocket and stimm supply for that reason

[haughty slate]

I tried bolt pistol scum and was disappointed

[foggy lantern]

I was never a VoC vet. I used stealth and went for helbore crits for that ammo economy.

[somber frigate]

Still pick all the ranged nodes

[broken bear]

I think bolt pistol scum is good to utilize rampage and boom rocket

[somber frigate]

Yeah the aoe blessing works with rocket

[rustic lava]

Bolt pistol just doesn't vibe with the scum play style

[charred bronze]

the zook has such a huge radius it's kind of redundant tbh

[somber frigate]

I heard it doesn’t work with the blackout though

Very sad

[radiant cosmos]

It probably is. Main issue is that Needle Pistol seems to perform the Bolt Pistol's use cases in that build much better.

[rustic lava]

Perhaps if they make a mark that has super quick reload it would work

[charred bronze]

I mean, it'll kill more stuff, but it's not worth bringing the bistol for

[somber frigate]

A larger blackout aoe with pocket toxin would be really funny

[manic wolf]

Boltpistol is a Zealot or Vet weapon imo

[charred bronze]

one of the things that is incredible about scum specific weapons are the very fast swap/ready animations. bistol is slooooow

[calm aurora]

Blaze away, speed reload

[haughty slate]

Wait really?! That would be the entire point

[somber frigate]

Unless the most recent patch changed it, really

[keen timber]

Isn’t that a bug anyway

[somber frigate]

It’s possible it changed though

[haughty slate]

I really hope so

[somber frigate]

Bpistol blackout for maximizing the poprock fun

[charred bronze]

so hyper-critical not working with ranged. Do we know whether that's a bug or not?

[calm aurora]

It worked before the hotfix. We had a video confirming it

[hasty agate]

Feature

[charred bronze]

i.e. is it an acknowledged bug?

[calm aurora]

Intended

[charred bronze]

lame

[calm aurora]

Strike is a melee hit in darktide parlance

[somber frigate]

Bpistol aoe blessing snd blackout? Hmm

[haughty slate]

One of these days my shredder autopistol build is going to be havoc 40 meta and I am going to shit on everyone who doubted my glorious peashooter

[keen timber]

Intended

[somber frigate]

Isn’t shredder pretty ok with scummer

[charred bronze]

but butterfly uses the word 'strike' and works with both

[manic wolf]

Shredder do be absurdly strong on Scum

[lilac ermine]

If there was armor modifier havoc desperado hive scum will die

[haughty slate]

it's actually friggin amazing

[somber frigate]

It’s still modern shredder so it holds it back a bit i think

But I imagine scummer uses it best

[keen timber]

Smile. Welcome to fartshart

[haughty slate]

You have infinite ammo and 80% uptime on Vulture's Dodge

basically playing god-mode

[lilac ermine]

If they add another dual weapon it should be armor focus

[haughty slate]

it's really degenerate

[keen timber]

It’s 100% uptime whilst shooting let’s be real

[charred bronze]

[haughty slate]

Yeah while shooting 100%

[calm aurora]

Shredder exec vet is fun as hell too

[haughty slate]

I honestly think once people catch on it might really be "meta"

[manic wolf]

Vulture's Dodge is a wasted point, put it elsewhere and play the game and have more damage

😄

[charred bronze]

the other reasons bistol desperado would be balls. Not enough uptime on vodge

[haughty slate]

yeah but sometimes I need to watch youtube on my other monitor

can't do that if I'm not invincible

[bronze glade]

sorry but bistol desperado goes fucking hard

[charred bronze]

I'm skeptical

[manic wolf]

For all of six weeks till Fatshark get back from holiday and stomp it into the dirt, anyway

[clever wren]

Playing Darktide with subway surfers background and AI voice reading a reddit story

[final temple]

it will likely be sleeper meta like taxe. really good but people just don’t like running it all the time.

[haughty slate]

I will piss and shid and cry but until then I party

[keen timber]

Vultures is really not that required tbh. Desperado perma immunity to range kinda covers that

[lilac ermine]

Thats so cap

[bronze glade]

explodey version. very good crowd control and clear

[manic wolf]

Yeah... Im just gonna hit you wit the "skill issue" and leave it at that

[somber frigate]

Probably a joke but do you think having these kinds of nodes Thats are helpful for players who ‘need’ it but can drop it for more impact without crutching on it is good or bad? Just idle thoughts

[haughty slate]

Is the taxe sleeper meta? I've never actually used it

[bronze glade]

it's meta

[charred bronze]

is it actually better than dap/vraks though?

[bronze glade]

not a sleeper meta

[manic wolf]

TaxAxe is better than any of Scum's unique melee weapons tbh

[keen timber]

Shouldn’t exist. Period.

[bronze glade]

those guns are going to be better at single target

[manic wolf]

Hell, its better than most weapons in the game at this point

[bronze glade]

bistols better at horde

[keen timber]

‘Players that need it’ will simply not learn and continue to need crutches

[haughty slate]

Damn. Wild. I'm out here trying to maket he bonesaw work against anything with armor.

[keen timber]

That’s not how u solve an issue

That’s how u make it worse

[limber cradle]

Ime TAxe has been meta literally forever

[high gull]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGuPAuvGkMA

[somber frigate]

With enough bullets anything will work

[limber cradle]

Its just that most people don't use it

[somber frigate]

[bronze glade]

well like a year ago it was pretty trash

[bronze glade]

fewer bullets needed if said bullets explode

[charred bronze]

Vulturado isn't exactly struggling with horde clear though. At least not at auric/maelstron. Maybe in havocs I can see some fall off

[manic wolf]

I know at least one long term playtester absolutely desipses ranged Scum an if they're telling Fatshark there is a problem, well.. More chance it gets stomped

[somber frigate]

Fair, was just curious on thoughts, Im really ambivalent to it

[final temple]

and that’s why I call it sleeper. those who know, know. those who don’t know are not exposed enough to it to wisen up

[haughty slate]

Damn, I've been out of the meta. I can't get that thing to kill through armor for shit.

[lilac ermine]

Who and can they change anything

[limber cradle]

I'll believe you but I remember it being good for a long time prior to a year ago

[manic wolf]

Nunya, and I guess we're gonna find out

[bronze glade]

not true. even in an ideal situation like this, DAP's horde clear is quite slow.

[rustic lava]

I feel the bigger explosive bolt weapon marks are custom built for the arbites as it just goes hand in hand with their stagger builds

[manic wolf]

Are the new bolt weapons good or no?

[bronze glade]

not really

[manic wolf]

Ive not even looked at them thus far

[bronze glade]

but i like the explodey bistol for desperado scum

[lilac ermine]

Just let ppl enjoy dlc class 😭

[manic wolf]

About what I expected then

[bronze glade]

i will say that the newer bolter is easier to use on vet for example

than old bolter

[oak bramble]

if not getting hit is the goal why the toughness cuiros?

[rustic lava]

Bigger boom, less damage and more cc thanks to high stagger

[bronze glade]

but if you can handle janky recoil, old bother is pretty much strictly better

[charred bronze]

it's not as fast as the best horde clear, but I still wouldn't call it a struggle.

[exotic temple]

Shooting people is just stabbing from long range

[manic wolf]

I can see a niche use for spreading Puncture procs with them, but beyond that mightaswell just use old one

[bronze glade]

yeah well this isn't even a mixed horde and look at how long it took with ideal blessings / talents lol

[rustic lava]

Arbites can mitigate the damage loss thanks to them getting crazy stagger builds

[manic wolf]

Yeah, I mean on Vet I wouldnt even look at new Bolter given I've played with the old one for years at this point

[keen timber]

As a Brit, and therefore an expert in the art of shivving people (often to steal their shoelaces), I disagree

[fallen void]

is double pistols+crowbar a good combo

[manic wolf]

Being able to one shot nearly everything with old Boltgun is a hard thing to beat out

[keen timber]

For a melee setup sure

[manic wolf]

"Gimmie yo shoes!"

[keen timber]

Crowbar is a melee only kinda weap

[keen timber]

Just the laces. They’re the valuable bit.

[somber frigate]

Iirc doesn’t scum have some stagger damage nodes? That always confused me, unless I’m hallucinating

Not like arbites at all just felt it was weird they have any at all

[charred bronze]

I shoot down mixed hordes all the time in practice? It's not hard and the daps/vraks chew through flak quick. Most things stutter on muties

[manic wolf]

Yeah, to hang myself when our next election rolls round

[keen timber]

fucking true

Actually holy shit

[dense hollow]

scum has a +15% damage on fully staggered enemy node that's basically a node that does nothing

[keen timber]

Every single choice sucks

[charred bronze]

doesn't it work to buff crowbar?

[manic wolf]

Been like that as long as I can remember other than that one time.. 🤔

[somber frigate]

Yeah that must be the one Im remembering. Thats so weird that it exists

[keen timber]

Yeah fully staggered is fucking worthless

[bronze glade]

yeah given adequate time you can do anything with anything, which says nothing about the efficiency or effectiveness of the setup lmao

[fallen void]

i want a ranged setup, dual pistols are for that right

[keen timber]

Fully staggered means on the floor

[final temple]

what was the difference between the bpistol marks again?

[dense hollow]

if you manage to fully stagger an enemy before it dies on crowbar i have to congratulate you

[rustic lava]

Double pistols are fun and good for getting weak spots so if you are wanting a healthy mix of accurate shots and wide swings it is a good combo

[keen timber]

Crowbar sucks on ranged setups. Pistols are better on melee setups.

[lilac ermine]

Crow bar special counts as fully stagger

[charred bronze]

I'm saying it's quite fast and safe. Otherwise you wouldn't be seeing the results from scum that you do on scoreboards

[coarse creek]

they're fully staggered during bonesaw/crowbar/chain attacks

[manic wolf]

It works on Crusher, but only on beaky mode heavies, which is just too niche to bother with

[charred bronze]

this is not a class spec that struggles with mixed hordes in the least

crushers are the only sticking point ime

[bronze glade]

i top the scoreboard regardless, but it's not exactly efficient in many situations

[dense hollow]

you've simply wasted a talent for a super conditional damage 15% extra damage when you can get 15% extra damage against everything on another talent

[bronze glade]

"ah yes, let's horde clear with a gun that has literally no cleave"

[keen timber]

Presumably ammo, fire rates and damage

[charred bronze]

never picking up an ammo refill is pretty efficient. Everything dies

Does the aoe bistol kill crushers particularly well?

[manic wolf]

I don't think it struggles with Crushers much tbh, and if your build does, might I suggest our lord and savior the bazooka? 😄

[charred bronze]

I use it

[zealous ridge]

Anyone tried combat shotgun ranged build?
20% should be about 2 clips on shotguns I think.

Wonder how well it sustains

[bronze glade]

talking about ttk, ammo efficiency literally does not matter on desperado anyway

[random shuttle]

Literally just did the All Melee Crusherfiesta Maelstrom on Melee Scum with Shivs

[manic wolf]

Poorly because Combat Shotguns has reload cycles measured in years

[random shuttle]

and it was a breeze

[keen timber]

Shotguns should have no issues

[manic wolf]

Sounds about right, yeah

[noble canopy]

What's the best dumpstat for dual autopistols? Collateral or Mobility?

[lilac ermine]

Is ranged build work there

[bronze glade]

new version has no cleave, less ammo, smaller mag, does less damage, but causes an explosion on impact

[random shuttle]

yes

[halcyon apex]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-bender-robot-pick-pocket-wallet-gif-3809956

[random shuttle]

because Pickpocket XD

[lilac ermine]

👍

[bronze glade]

mobility

[random shuttle]

but what was hilarious

[halcyon apex]

Pickpocket all day long

[random shuttle]

was I had and used

like 20 zookas

[exotic temple]

Well that went dark pretty quick.

[random shuttle]

I killed like 300 elites that game

[manic wolf]

So has our political climate

[random shuttle]

Bazooka is most fun blitz in game

[charred bronze]

hard to imagine the bistol aoe clearing hordes that much faster than sweeping heads with the vraks outside of ideal very clumped conditions

[lilac ermine]

U know what would be more fun bazooka regen on kills

[tropic bough]

That sounds fair and balanced

[bronze glade]

i mean the point is also that it's much safer

[keen timber]

I see no issue with tha

[bronze glade]

you saw how much i had to move in that clip

[keen timber]

It’s a bit stronger than the blackouts

[bronze glade]

when the horde tried to surround me

[keen timber]

So let’s say 30 kills per charge?

[frigid thorn]

Do you need any of the cleave talents for the Shivs?

[bronze glade]

because i have no crowd control while using low damage pewpew weapons

[lilac ermine]

🙂‍↕️

[manic wolf]

50, and the blast radius gets reverted to pre-buff

[random shuttle]

nope

[bronze glade]

i had to retreat down half the hallway to avoid being surrounded

[bronze glade]

i'd say pick up the top one

you're prob going to be pathing through the neighborhood anyway

[exotic temple]

Just blink twice if you need help so you don’t get put in internet jail

[keen timber]

40 and we double the blast radius

[charred bronze]

gotta ads for an even halfway decent fire rate, so while the stagger is cool, especially with the reduced vulture uptime, I'm skeptical of that too.

I'm sure it's useable and I'm glad it's kicking ass for you, but it doesn't really seem to do the actual job better, even if it's quite good

[keen timber]

Trvth

[frigid thorn]

The battering strikes one?

i have one extra point lol

[bronze glade]

feel free to be skeptical all you want, or actually try it yourself

[calm aurora]

it was not, Taxe had just a minor glow up this year.

[bronze glade]

i didn't give exact dates for a reason

[lilac ermine]

Is brace on dual autopistol give more stagger

[charred bronze]

I always do, just to make sure my head isn't all the way up my own ass lol

[bronze glade]

yeah

[lilac ermine]

I dont rlly see any changes when bracing and hipfire

[calm aurora]

the problem was neckbeards telling everyone the meta should be oneshotting a dh or a crusher

[charred bronze]

fast crusher kills became meta when they became the only thing that doesn't die instantly =/

[icy scaffold]

Plus high difficulties sending trains of them at you

[charred bronze]

yup. If you can't deal with crusher/bulwark trains fast, you just die.

[lilac ermine]

I think instead of upping number of crushers or armor or bosses make the shooters more dangerous

[charred bronze]

no

pls

[radiant swift]

[icy scaffold]

Then you just make bubble Psyker a requirement

[charred bronze]

there was a period when shooters were more dangerous and it was even more miserable

[final temple]

BS is solid. doesn’t hurt to have on shivs.

[north plank]

Add another disabler

return to the packrat

[lilac ermine]

Alot of the shooters have been nerfed hard like shotgunner and plasma gun

[charred bronze]

just would be nice if they nerfed carapace/crushers back a bit, and then introduced beefy threats of other armor types

[bronze glade]

this shit is why i don't particularly enjoy vraks/DAP desperado, even if i know it's very strong

[north plank]

deservedly and they are where they need to be rn

[final temple]

ultimately, Darktide as a tide game still has a focus on melee. disrupting that flow with too many shooters makes the game not enjoyable.

[radiant swift]

bring back 2023 unnerfed shotgunners

[north plank]

ADD ANOTHER DISABLEE

[zealous ridge]

Still experimenting with scum.

Tried with 20% Dr / DMG stam dependent, and 20% crit / Dr chem purple node.

Unsurprisingly felt alot tankier.

Just can't decide Dr, CDs or AS as team stim.

[radiant swift]

where they ignored the toughness grace period and could actually just insta you if enough shot at once

[north plank]

ADD THE PACKMASTER

[bronze glade]

bistol's both faster and safer at horde clear, especially when mixed hordes show up

[final temple]

strength / rending for team.

[charred bronze]

clip broken for me 🙁

[clever wren]

Remove slide spamming because it offends me aesthetically. Shooters now much more dangerous

[mighty belfry]

I tried explodey bistol on supply build yesterday

[near mauve]

REAL

[bronze glade]

should load eventually

[mighty belfry]

Ya know what. It is not half bad at all

[near mauve]

goofiest movement "tech"

[tropic bough]

I remember playing the tutorial and was like this is it? the only way to avoid bullets is sliding?

[zealous ridge]

Nah that's blue potion + macro in vtide still xD

[north plank]

I take comfort in the fact that I know Fatshark will never ever do this thank god

[bronze glade]

yeah it's better than having to constantly slide and dodge all over the place because you're using a gun with 0 horde control

obviously you lose single target dps tho

but that's what shivs are for

[near mauve]

i mean u dont want more dangerous shooters
did we forget havoc 1 shooters?