hivescum-class

[high gull]

https://tenor.com/view/muneh-rdr2-arthur-morgan-gif-20022681

[ocean fiber]

is hypercritical good with hyper violence on a melee build or should it not be taken if i already have hyperviolence

[final temple]

they kind of infringe on one another as HC can steal rolling HV procs.

[ocean fiber]

yeah that makes sense

thank you

[final temple]

you can take either or, as your points allow. technically, they have both ideal scenarios to use but I would claim these are too specific to make a build around them deliberately

usually people take HC if they want pickpocket on a non-desperado build and HV otherwise

[unique spire]

I want fastest scum build

[young herald]

wild shot in the dark, anyone have any decent ideas for where to put that red number? It's a tracker for "number of kills toward your next blackout grenade generated"

[grand jewel]

left of the nade

er

number

[unique spire]

Catmiral

[willow vine]

Is there a consensus on the shivs mark 3?

[unique spire]

Catmiral 739784395 the annoyed

[sturdy linden]

Both marks are good

Corkscrews have better heavies for big single targets, boxcutters slice and dice faster but have a slightly clunkier single target combo

[grand jewel]

mk1s are nice and simple

[unique spire]

Carmiral 7397846395

[willow vine]

[ocean fiber]

near your crosshair or at least close

so you don't have to glance super far away every time

[fast gust]

Under the number

[grand jewel]

left doesn't overlap other UI is all, just open space towards center of the screen

[grand jewel]

and some people don't like things in the middle of the screen, visual clutter my behated

[ocean fiber]

your cowardice disgusts me

obscure your vision like a true warrior

let hate and only hate guide you

[young herald]

settled on this for now, but now I need to figure out how to get it to work in actual games where the convenient buff to track it doesn't trigger

[grand jewel]

[unique spire]

Carmiral 7397846395

[grave venture]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-team-fortress-spam-dustbowl-spawn-gif-20281790

[near vapor]

pipes are op

[night wind]

The enhanced penance isnt tracking progress for me

[near relic]

It's a dumb penance.

You get it by restoring toughness with the cartel stimm

[night wind]

Yea ive been doing that and it isnt tracking the progress

[near relic]

You have the "restore 25% toughness" stimm?

Top left branch, I believe

[night wind]

Yup. ill just do the other 2 for now and focus that one later i guess

[broken moss]

the DAP experience

[near relic]

It wasn't tracking for me until I started using the instant toughness restore stimm. Prior to that I assumed it just meant I had to restore toughness while under the effects of the stimm

[fast gust]

nope coherency toughness regen you get from it doesn't count

it does count for others tho

as in replendish toughness with stim dispenser counts

[broken moss]

are people using auto activation mods for stims to keep chem dependency up?

[near relic]

I know now. Got the penance already. Just bad wording.

[final temple]

I count it down loud and from the top of my lungs. my neighbours know when I play scum.

[balmy radish]

stimms when broken

[signal nebula]

nah, but i have a modf that does a better job of displaying the timer and icon

[broken moss]

Link?

[main wagon]

I cracked it. I forgot I run the Reflex Stim for an additional 30% on top of Speedloader (talent) and Speedloader (blessing) so my perception of the average desperado reload is skewed

[signal nebula]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/654

[broken moss]

I have one that shows me the cooldown number and it does put up a small notification when it's off CD but it's not "loud" enough for me

[signal nebula]

i put this in the middle of my screen under my crosshair

about as obivous as I can make it without making it flash or some shit

[broken moss]

this might actually be the ticket

thank you

[broken moss]

yea that's what I need. something large and right in the middle

been seeing people using chem dep a lot more recently and this specific build I'm trying to squeeze as much crit out as I can so may as well try to make it work

[flat mist]

i have it big and obvious

[signal nebula]

It's my favourite of the keystones and pretty insane in crit weapon builds

[final temple]

if only chem dep itself wasn’t a total waste on a supply build

[tight musk]

Kinda wondering if I really need the 2 cleave talents on a crowbar build.

Not really sure where else I'd put those 2 points otherwise tho. I could go Hyper-crit and pickpocket...but with this build, especially during rampage, things just die even without crits, and I don't use my gun enough for pickpocket to really matter that much, I can just occasionally grab a small box here and there and be fine.

[arctic imp]

Best blessings for the shivs? I see some people with riposte uncanny but some people like the finesse on dodge instead of uncanny?

[arctic imp]

I only take one of the cleave nodes, and I don’t ever feel like I need more.

[final temple]

riposte is basically a locked in. apart from that it’s numerically still uncanny. I’ve seen people liking flesh tearer or precog too

[arctic imp]

ty, I prefer uncanny but* I was wondering if precog was a huge boost over it or not

[final temple]

even the nerfed version is superior on shivs

[novel oracle]

because realistically it was barely nerfed

[arctic imp]

It’s taking me 7 hits to kill a crusher with my shivs, I have 25% cara, is this typical?

This is without any activation blessings active* I can’t test dodge blessings, I’m on xbox in meat grinder

[arctic imp]

But isn’t 8% much less than…. what’s the normal version?

[novel oracle]

Yeah the value is

[arctic imp]

Have you made any more builds or are you over hive scum?

[novel oracle]

Ive slowed down on darktide for a bit
Like you have no idea how much I've scum I've played in the last few months

But just for a bit

[arctic imp]

You’ve had access to it for months? Jeez I can’t imagine how many iterations you’ve played of it

[tight musk]

I have Superiority on my crowbar, and I just noticed that if I shoot an elite/special with my needle gun and then pull out my crowbar and have it in my hand when they die...it procs Superiority.

[arctic imp]

Sounds about right

[tight musk]

Also if I'm at full superiority stacks and pull out my crowbar after poisoning an enemy, superiority gigabuffs the toxin damage, lol.

[arctic imp]

While it’s cool that it has so much variation, stuff like that is hard to control and I wish the dmg bonus just carried over from the weapon it was applied by.

[arctic imp]

How much damage did it do?

[tight musk]

570 per tick on a crusher with no superiority, like 783 per tick with full superiority.

That's a pretty good increase, I'd say.

[arctic imp]

570 per tick? What other damage buffs do you have active?

[tight musk]

Just +25% carapace on my weapon.

I shoot the full needle clip into a crusher's face and look at the damage.

[rare stirrup]

Yeah I think like 560-570 ish is without any buffs

[split lagoon]

Guys, is it worth going with 3 +3 stam curios or is it stupid?

[rare stirrup]

It's a meme, but try it

[astral canyon]

Is stupid

[tight musk]

On a melee build? Very worth it.

[astral canyon]

And thats why its worth it

[split lagoon]

Melee, yeah

[arctic imp]

I saw a tac axe build do that and it absolutely deleted bosses. So don’t listen to people that say it’s stupid because he had over a million damage and made the rest of us feel like we were watching a movie

[wind crane]

if i list my group for havoc, does it get auto named like this?

[split lagoon]

Will use crowbar and dunno if chemical or adrenaline

[arctic imp]

I’d adrenaline, I’m partial to the damage buff because it doesn’t feel like rampage is comparable to what desperado allows you to do dmg wise with infinite ammo

[tired prairie]

You can define a range, or a specific (your) Havoc assignment, which lists the map and mods the assignment has

[arctic imp]

Also don’t know if it’s worth it on crowbar. Crowbar gets a ton of stamina but not real “on hit” buffs that I can remember unlike taxe

[split lagoon]

I... I'm not particularly fond of the taxe due to its ability to fail against carapace

[arctic imp]

I don’t think that’s true after what I saw

But I don’t like the weapon purely because I just don’t like it. You can always try the stamina thing with crowbar. At the very least it’d be interesting

[arctic imp]

I checked mine and it’s about 520* without any buffs, I think the 25% perk is giving y’all that extra bit

[rare stirrup]

Well yeah it does affect it

But only when you're holding it

[arctic imp]

Yeah which is why I don’t have cara on my needler, I don’t keep it out

[rare stirrup]

Wait actually, what's your mag size?

[arctic imp]

6, but that wouldn’t matter because the max stacks are 30

And you can apply that in 5 shots

I want that number to be higher. To truly watch everything melt

[wind crane]

hm ok didnt see any option like that but maybe i didnt click enough

ty

[tired prairie]

It goes like Pick an assignment > choose Havoc > list your own assignment IIRC

[grand jewel]

do you reckon the hive scum give their homies a kiss goodnight

[astral canyon]

Outlaw def does

[grand jewel]

maybe I need to switch to outlaw

nah

make another character

even better

[astral canyon]

Make 9 different scums

[hardy valley]

Your own private gang

[wind crane]

ah ok ty

btw u think ill get a team at havoc 9?

or does nobody play that

[quick echo]

Not really

[tired prairie]

You can try boosting yourself through completing Auric Maelstrom to Havoc 16 - if I recall that should put you at assignment rank 16

[grand jewel]

usually 16 and higher

[thin crag]

i love the duel shivs so much

[grand jewel]

because of that ^

[grand jewel]

bri'ish

[wind crane]

ooh sick didnt know, tyvm

[thin crag]

thankfully not

[grand jewel]

depending where you're from I could run the auric mael with you now if you wanted

[muted pivot]

Everybody always says that tac axe sucks on carapace and I just don't see it

Crit headshots do a lot, and it crits so often

[wind crane]

thx thats very nice, but i have some friends that i play with

[muted pivot]

it's not a duelling sword, but that's fine, because duelling swords are dumb.

[flat mist]

Because excluding weapons that do effectively zero to carapace like dclaw they are one of the worst.

[idle ore]

Tacaxe does okay into carapace

[muted pivot]

like, looking at the 7, if you do the actual dedicated ST combo, it kills crushers ok. Not good enough for a pack of 12 by yourself, but you don't get stopped by them like a bull butcher on ogryn can

[flat mist]

Name some melee weapons that are worse into carapace.

[tired prairie]

I’m fairly sure Heavy sword is worse into Carapace than Taxe

[idle ore]

Yea exactly

[split lagoon]

Ok, so I tried the taxe 3+stam curios with rampage (no tox on crit yet) and dmg is DISGUSTING. You are extremely weak but dmg is just something else

[flat mist]

Yeah it is

[main wagon]

Melk you karking slimewad give me MY TOUGHNESS CURIO

[spice cloud]

I hate melk so much

[flat mist]

So, what, we have dclaw, bull butcher, and hsword that are worse? That is sucking at carapace.

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-emperor-frenzied-shriek-gif-18454618

[spice cloud]

I hope the turn him into a servitor

[main wagon]

Let me spend 2 million ordos on a custom curio and make me wait 10 missions for him to "find" it

Idc

JUST PLEASE

[flat mist]

Just spend 50k melk bucks like I did

[main wagon]

That 2% toughness is clearly going to make such a large difference in my survival, obviously

It's essential you see

[spice cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/tantrum-kid-toddler-golf-gif-21423166

[tight musk]

~4000 damage on a crit on a crusher with crowbar alternative mode...without rampage going.

With rampage I can do the same crit damage in regular mode.

[tired prairie]

I’d say all Ogryn cleavers are sad into Carapace at present; Mk4 has stabs, but with buffed Cara/Flak elites the weapon is just sadder still

[spice cloud]

Sadly true rn

The butchers succ ass

Rn

[tired prairie]

Meanwhile, Mk6 💀

[flat mist]

Taxe still sucks into cara

[spice cloud]

I only play mk4

[tired prairie]

Bull butcher at least has push attack follow-up for combo

[cedar cairn]

Stabgryn remains undefeated

[tired prairie]

It’s not great, I will give if that

[grand jewel]

[flat mist]

That's all people are saying. It's not that it's god awful.

[idle ore]

I mean most melee weapons are pretty bad into carapace by your definition then

Outside of like ps ds

[flat mist]

No lmao

We have garbage, God awful, dumpster tier

Then we have taxe

Then we have like half the weapons

[idle ore]

Like what?

[flat mist]

Then we have force swords, ds, ps

[idle ore]

Not sure if you’re talking just scum or other classes

[spice cloud]

All classes

[idle ore]

What other weapons are you referring to here

[tired prairie]

Beats riposting with DC into Crusher weakspot hits if you ask me

[calm aurora]

Get crits bro

[flat mist]

Anything that isn't mentioned. Crowbar. Shovels. Combat axes.

[flat mist]

This is gaming. We have S tier, A tier, Sucks tier, and Garbage tier

Gotta comprehend the distribution.

[novel oracle]

Taxe is good into carapace
Not great
Not bad
Not terrible
Just good

[flat mist]

That's the ok tier, otherwise known as sucks tier

[novel oracle]

If you consider the sucks tier something that kills crushers in 5 seconds instead of 3

[raven matrix]

Can anyone recommend a build with the stub pistols and crowbar? If of course such a thing is viable.

[signal nebula]

Taxe doesn't suck lol

[flat mist]

That's literally the point. The distribution isn't rational.

[calm aurora]

It's more like 3 instead of 1

[novel oracle]

If your point is how people consider carapace damage then yeah

People care too much about cara ttks

[flat mist]

That's how the conversation started

[calm aurora]

Rotten armor trauma

[flat mist]

Voidblast*

[novel oracle]

Rotten armor in havoc has always sucked tho

They just made it worse

[keen timber]

I feel like so long as a weapon can reliably, safely handle cara, it’s fine

[calm aurora]

I think a weapon not letting you handle 10 ragers is a bigger problem

[keen timber]

Yeah possibly

I’ve been enjoying arbite for that, you just throw them around

[novel oracle]

No you dont understand
I cannot dodge crushers or position properly
That crusher has to die immediately and so the only viable weapons are the ones that can do that

[tender marten]

If I hit a crusher on the head and his limbs don't explode into four cardinal directions then the weapon is bad

[flat mist]

My bar is eight cardinal directions

[calm aurora]

It's funny seeing people complaining that they die to crushers now because of the hitboxes

Just dodge bro

[novel oracle]

Tbf I did see that guy who got hit by one when he was just behind the crusher

[keen timber]

To be fair I don’t really like chainsword for crushers, the shredder takes too long

[unreal stirrup]

taxe axe suck on hive scum is a take of all time lol

[compact oyster]

Fatshark wins the best ongoing game award

[unreal stirrup]

even on other classes it pretty good

outside psyker ig

[calm aurora]

Aoe of death was always unfair

[flat mist]

Can't stand any chain weapons that I need to rev for that reason

[calm aurora]

What

[keen timber]

Yeah I used to really like the evis

[unreal stirrup]

they would feel way better if they didn't take away your mobility

[calm aurora]

Take that back

[unreal stirrup]

read

[calm aurora]

Taxe is broken good on psyker

[flat mist]

Taxe go brrrrr, how could anyone think it sucks on scum

[frigid sluice]

Anyone got a build that uses the right most ability, aura and keystone

Trying to get the penances done

[unreal stirrup]

I actually think its the best melee on scum

[frigid sluice]

High attack speed high crit weapon and you think it doesn’t go well with the high attack speed high crit class

[flat mist]

I haven't tried it since day 1 bc new melees

But that one game was brrr

[unreal stirrup]

I used knife and taxe more than shiv

[tight musk]

Crusher crushed.

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/meonly-gif-19710542

[keen timber]

Yeah I find I end up interrupting a lot because of overheads

I think taxe sucks because I’m still hardwired to think they’re shit from 2023

[unreal stirrup]

or they could make all the tick deal the same fucking damage instead of it being back loaded

[flat mist]

I do think it goes well... can you not read or was that a royal you?

[unreal stirrup]

so you're not punished for not committing

yknow

[frigid sluice]

Royal you?

[unreal stirrup]

LIKE THE FUCKING CHAIN AXE

[frigid sluice]

I meant you as in whoever was talking down on tac axe

[flat mist]

That was such a dumb fucking change

Well, decision

Just frontload it all. Forget the fucking armour ripping through realism logic.

[unreal stirrup]

i wouldn't be as mad if the chainaxe didn't already do this

[flat mist]

That's what royal you means

[unreal stirrup]

nah that change was for the better since old chain weapon do the little tick on everything

[frigid sluice]

Ah ok

[unreal stirrup]

now it fast on non armored but it still stupid

[flat mist]

I meant the decision to not frontload it on armour like unyielding

[calm aurora]

Taxe was always good. In 3 years it received a fix for the mk7 and a slight change in values on all marks. Nothing groundbreaking. It was not psword lvl of insanity tho

[radiant cosmos]

what does regular knife have over shiv anyway? better uncanny values?

[keen timber]

Yeah u have 3 crushers in a group and suddenly u can never finish a full shred

[unreal stirrup]

way better single target

[flat mist]

It's also been fun as hell for three years

[unreal stirrup]

way better uncanny

[flat mist]

Absolutely useless

[woeful trellis]

are all versions of the tacaxe roughly on the same level? or is it a dueling sword case where one of them has much a higher single target combo

[keen timber]

Yeah

[unreal stirrup]

the mk1 and mk7 are the best one

[calm aurora]

Same case

[radiant cosmos]

but shiv is better at horde shredding right?

[keen timber]

U get to sit there spamming heavies each doing 2% of their hp

[unreal stirrup]

mk4 is ass

[unreal stirrup]

not really

but it got buffed so

[keen timber]

Shivs are great

[unreal stirrup]

menawhile knife have cleaving h1-h2

[keen timber]

They also have an actually useful alt fire

[unreal stirrup]

the knife punch ignore stagger reduction so you can do thing withbit

not that bad but it more useful on mk3 knife

which is way worse than mk6

[neon fern]

shivs's alt is literally one of zealot's blitz built in for free

[keen timber]

Not quite but close enough

[neon fern]

kinda crazy

[keen timber]

They’re lower range

[calm aurora]

I never use it tho

[neon fern]

very similar

[keen timber]

Yeah they’re similar

They’ll kill specials and stuff pretty fast

[neon fern]

considering it regens on elite and specilkills

[radiant cosmos]

it feels much harder to aim than zealot blitz imo

[keen timber]

U can emergency ping a crusher with all 3 and that’ll down it

[flat mist]

Should change that

[keen timber]

Etc

[neon fern]

it has a stricter arc

you have to aim up a lot more

[keen timber]

They have much more drop

[neon fern]

but once u get used to it

[keen timber]

Zealot knives are heat seeking

[neon fern]

it's v useful

[calm aurora]

Well I use the needler with the shivs...

[unreal stirrup]

I mean blackout exist and it's just stunstorm + knives and better than both

[keen timber]

Faster to throw a shiv at a gunner then swap and you can keep fighting

[unreal stirrup]

the shiv throwing knives is too slow for my liking tbf

[keen timber]

It’s faster with a smaller area and shorter disruption

[flat mist]

Same but it saves me ammo on needle (reloads more to the point)

[neon fern]

it's still crazy to have that on a weapon

[unreal stirrup]

yeah except you forgot about 3 stack of toxin

[neon fern]

cuz u may not be running blackouts

[keen timber]

Which isn’t actually a part of the blitz but dure

[neon fern]

and u get it for free on an already amazing weapon

[unreal stirrup]

regenerate 40s of stim cd just by throwing it in a horde

[keen timber]

They’re also rechargeable

Which is nuts

[neon fern]

yes

[unreal stirrup]

no one really talk about blitz in a vacuum

[keen timber]

They’d be a bit weak if they didn’t recharge at all, but you can get a LOT of them

[calm aurora]

On the shivs?

[unreal stirrup]

if we do then krak is still dogshit

[keen timber]

Don’t raw kraks still oneshot crushers

[unreal stirrup]

pretty sure they don't in havoc

[keen timber]

Pocket toxin

[unreal stirrup]

but i haven't take it in havoc for a while

[keen timber]

They don’t in havoc yep

Or so I’ve heard at least

[calm aurora]

Ahhh blackout toxin?

[keen timber]

Yeah

[flat mist]

They're talking about blackout but shiv throw does stack shiploads of toxins

[keen timber]

Blackout toxin is so fucking good

Pack of gunners? Two blackouts, pack gone

[unreal stirrup]

blackout stagger everything

[calm aurora]

I would not run blackout without pocket

[keen timber]

Pack of ragers in a mixed horde? One toxin out, horde is no longer mixed and is now just ragers

[neon fern]

they're p good but the chem nades are absurd

[calm aurora]

But well I run chemnades

[keen timber]

I would, but they’re so much better with it

[muted pivot]

On Uprising you can throw 3 Shivs and kill a monster it feels like

[unreal stirrup]

chem nade is limited

[frigid sluice]

Anyone got a right side build for the penances

[keen timber]

Blackouts are simply too useful

[tired prairie]

Except monsters and mutants, that is

[keen timber]

Imo

[unreal stirrup]

uprising lmao

[muted pivot]

Hey we all have to do 2 games there to start lmao

[keen timber]

They’ll stagger muties but not cancel a charge

[neon fern]

limited nade is fine cuz u get grenade prio as scum anyvay

[patent bone]

Hey hey people

[unreal stirrup]

charge isn't staggerable outside stuff like mk1 shovel stab since it ignore stagger reduction

[calm aurora]

Yeah lol

[tired prairie]

So, if they grab someone and you throw one, it should stun them/free the person?

[keen timber]

(U get grenade prio because as the ogryn starts walking towards them, u whizz past him and finesse them from under him)

[unreal stirrup]

or taxe special

[keen timber]

Oh actually, I’m not sure

I haven’t tried

[neon fern]

yeah

but even in havoc ppl will just leave u the nades

cuz they know

ur blitzs are broken

[calm aurora]

They feed you

[keen timber]

Scum having good blitzes feels fitting tbh

[tired prairie]

Mutants have stagger resist in thousands, and the blinders don't force stagger, so IDK what you meant by "they can stagger a mutie but don't stop their charge"

[keen timber]

How does the pocket rocket handle crushers in havoc?

[unreal stirrup]

boom bringer casually kill all crushers in 6m radius with 2 use

and everything in the room

[keen timber]

I’ve seen it in auric and it’s pretty impressive

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/house-explosion-explode-boom-kaboom-gif-19506150

[neon fern]

another 10 million radius to boom bringer

[unreal stirrup]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1444017590748975125/1447933188398645308/Warhammer_40-000-_Darktide_-_2025-12-09_7-49-06_PM.mp4?ex=693cb81d&is=693b669d&hm=21c859990884744a7a34dad276001d91e8bfaac71899ac7361848fc458b406ac&

[keen timber]

If boom bringer doesn’t kill everything in the room on cast, is it really worth it?

[unreal stirrup]

the ragers take 1.7k when he is like way further out

[keen timber]

I mean that’s pretty good I think

[neon fern]

it can turn a hopeless situation into a win so 2 cast is well worth

[unreal stirrup]

A single cast is enough

[astral canyon]

And this is without any damage buffs at all right

[keen timber]

Yeah u don’t need the double

[neon fern]

depends

[unreal stirrup]

yeah on rampage build

[tight musk]

Interesting. Superiority on crowbar applies to toxin, but headtaker on something like the chainaxe doesn't buff toxin.

[unreal stirrup]

no ranged talent

[keen timber]

I mean unless ur getting hugely run down

Then that one rocket should be enough to let you clean up

[unreal stirrup]

h40

[keen timber]

You do have a team

You don’t need to oneshot solo the whole pack

[astral canyon]

Allegedly

[unreal stirrup]

a single one already put all of them on the floor with like 2k hp left

basically ogryn nuke but way better

[keen timber]

If u have a shit team in hav40 I think ur probably just cooked ngl

[keen timber]

Oggy frag stores a single charge too right

Or like, 2?

[unreal stirrup]

single

[astral canyon]

Nah im just joking

[unreal stirrup]

also doesn't put crushers on their ass

[keen timber]

Lmao

[astral canyon]

Single charge yeah

[unreal stirrup]

also does shit damage to armor

[neon fern]

unless u clutching

[keen timber]

I think they could give it a little buff then

[unreal stirrup]

also less range

[astral canyon]

Leas enage

[unreal stirrup]

also there no damage on impact

ogryn nuke is washed

[astral canyon]

By less range you mean that it doesnt go as far as the rocket can?

[keen timber]

Oggy bomb always felt a bit awkward to me

[neon fern]

completely, just cuz it does nothing to armor

[unreal stirrup]

kinda

[neon fern]

it's just worse boom bringer

[keen timber]

All the ogryn blitzes feel a bit awkward

[neon fern]

doesn't mmatter it has insane aoe

[unreal stirrup]

damage also falloff more

[tight musk]

Give ogryn rechargeable nuke.

[unreal stirrup]

so you're doing less damage over a big radius too

[neon fern]

1 use, only clears chaff

[astral canyon]

Oh ok

[neon fern]

powercrept

✅

[calm aurora]

Game has changed. Nuke has not.

[unreal stirrup]

ogryn now have a single good blitz and its just a slow knife

[neon fern]

needs a buff

[unreal stirrup]

I genuinely think rock should be infinite without having to wait

it being slow to use is already bad enough

[calm aurora]

Solo h40 only rocks incoming then

[astral canyon]

Either that or make the refill on headshot hit base

[unreal stirrup]

meanwhile box of boom does zero fucking damage

[neon fern]

refill shouldn't be just on headshot

atp

[unreal stirrup]

yeah it does refill on headshot but that require a talent

and it has a cooldown

[astral canyon]

I mean making that node part of the blitz at base

[unreal stirrup]

I think literally infinite use is better

it won't be unbalanced because it take a decent amount of time to throw

only hit like 1.5 enemy

[astral canyon]

Also tbh if FS does buff the nuke i would prefer if they just cranked its killing power to the max and kept the single charge just to commit to the bit

[unreal stirrup]

yeah it should do like 30k damage to bosses and have insta kill override for everything but crusher

but at least put crusher on their ass

[echo python]

Rock should get a subnode that changes it to a bunch of pebbles thrown in a shotgun-like blast

[astral canyon]

Tbh i'd rather they kept blitz subnodes as just a psyker thing

[echo python]

And a subnode that changes it to one big boulder which is thrown like a bowling ball

[keen timber]

Give it a central radius that instakills crushers and stuff

Then a second larger radius that instakills everything

That isn’t a crusher

[vast yoke]

tbf box of boom is just a stun nade

honestly it does the job better than zealots stun nade ever could too lmao

[keen timber]

What

[unreal stirrup]

stun storm is better because it actually stun instead of lightly stagger everything lmao

the problem with stunstorm is extremely shit pathing before rework

and competing with knives and flame

[vast yoke]

doesn't box of hurt stagger monsters too tho

which kinda is the biggest pain in the ass when securing revives anyway

[unreal stirrup]

that rock and on weakspot iirc

[keen timber]

Just always use thammer on zealot and oneshot them

[vast yoke]

the nade that really needs a buff is frag bomb imo because boom bringer does its job better and has 4x the shots

[vast yoke]

trvth..

[exotic temple]

I kinda feel blackout without pocket toxin is leaving a lot of potential untapped. I don’t know what talent I would move around tho.

[unreal stirrup]

I think all of them need buff

[vast yoke]

especially when pathfinding fucks up the explosion radius and it does 0 damage because you accidentally lodged it under a bench

[keen timber]

That feeling of pure validation when someone responds to something you said with ‘trvth’

It’s crazy to me that I live in a world where people are saying ogryn (any part of it) needs buffs ngl

Given I’m straight out of the fucking Time Machine from 2023 where ogryn was the class

[vast yoke]

yeah i don't disagree tbh. any class without regenerating nades should have their non regen options be hefty and powerful, incendiaries get rolled in every way by scums poop barrel

[keen timber]

I do sort of feel like stunstorm could use a buff too

To be fair

Given how blackouts have offensive power too

Direct offensive power

[wind crane]

why cant my team do havoc? we have completed maelstrom

one of the guys doesnt have a lvl 30 on his acc tho, just lvl 24, is it that?

[keen timber]

Yes that’s it

I

You don’t get the mission until 30

[vast yoke]

i wouldn't mind a slight rework

like maybe you only get to hold 2, but they stun shit for straight up 30 seconds

incens are also really ass right now

[random shuttle]

I wouldn't THat's just shock mine in different visual

[keen timber]

I think 30 Seconds is pointless overkill

[random shuttle]

What the old blitzes need is a power spike but with unique personality.

[keen timber]

I’d much rather see them be made more accessible than stun for longer

[vast yoke]

yeah true

[random shuttle]

For example Stun Nades on Zealot could make all affected enemies take 10% more dmg from all sources for 10s

or such

[vast yoke]

maybe magnify the damage but then provide a bigger backstab bonus

[random shuttle]

yeah like that

[vast yoke]

lean into buttstab zealot gimmick a bit idk

[random shuttle]

Basically they need a power spike

but into something unique and fun

make them have their own thing

[keen timber]

We love back shots zealot

[vast yoke]

maybe even for monsters that arent affected by zealot stuns it could still provide the damage buff

[random shuttle]

For example what I would do to fire nades

is not make them bigger, more, better or so

but instead crank their infested/unarmored ADM to infinity

[keen timber]

Could give them an immediate damage hit before the burn

[random shuttle]

maybe maniac too

like 5.0+ ADM against 'shirtless' enemies.

[keen timber]

Make any muties that step in just keel over immediately

[random shuttle]

yeah

[vast yoke]

that'd be cute

[keen timber]

Like I wanna see them run in and just trip

[random shuttle]

It's fire

if you are shirtless

you die

[keen timber]

Instant face plant

I think wearing a shirt isn’t gonna help either tbh

[random shuttle]

You know what I mean 😄

[keen timber]

I’m surprised Chen toxin even hurts nurglite cultists ngl

Given how much rancid shit they probably have in them

[random shuttle]

This is the advice I was giving to FS long ago

to make stuff more unique using imbalance in Armour Types

[vast yoke]

its some other shit scientists haven't figured out yet

[random shuttle]

For example I would love to see weapons more specialized like that.

Like people would care less if their Doinky Knife sucks ass against Maulers/Crushers

[keen timber]

It’s wouldn’t care less

[random shuttle]

if it had absolutely cracked dmg vs maniacs/unarmored/infested

[keen timber]

I suspect people would care a lot if their knife couldn’t kill crushers tbh

Same with matters

[random shuttle]

And I don't mean some piddly 1.1 Adm mod or such

[keen timber]

Maulers

[random shuttle]

but like

3.0+

[vast yoke]

i think it'd be cute if weapons had varied cleave values on different enemy types too

[keen timber]

Nah I don’t want rock paper scissors balancing tbh

[winter galleon]

Gave vultures another try, might go back to dependency simply because vultures dodge makes the game unfun. Or i guess could take the weakpoint damage node instead

[vast yoke]

is the weakpoint damage node even any good on any of the scums weapons, 25% is so small and i dont think any weapon besides maybe the dual stubs and vigilants has a high weakpoint% anyway

is it additive or multiplicative..

[keen timber]

It only scales off the weak point bonus damage

[winter galleon]

Not really but not much option to go away from dodge

[keen timber]

But it’s still like 10-15% extra damage from what I understand

[vast yoke]

i mean depends on the weapon

i might lab it out

since i basically always skip it

[keen timber]

Chem dependency should give movespd too

[vast yoke]

oh god please dont make it give anything more 😭

it should give +2 stamina per stack too

[astral canyon]

Vulture's mark in question:

[keen timber]

It doesn’t give that much does it? Or am I just cooked

[astral canyon]

Not really

[keen timber]

3 nodes is 30% cdr, 15% Crit and tdr?

[astral canyon]

Specially compared to vulture

[keen timber]

Yeah vultures is cracked

[unreal stirrup]

you alway run 4 node because it is that easy to upkeep

[astral canyon]

Thats still an extra talent point

[vast yoke]

1 extra talent point for 10% cdr, 5% crit chance, 5% tdr, and the downside is you can't use your stim when you actually need it half the time

i dont rlly see the benefit

[keen timber]

What

It’s not 1 talent point for all of that

It’s three

[vast yoke]

1 extras for the 4 stacks

[keen timber]

Because the toughness and Crit are seperate nodes

Oh yeah

That’s 4 talent points for like

[unreal stirrup]

wdym 4 talent point

it's 1

[keen timber]

What vultures gives for 1

[astral canyon]

For q

[keen timber]

It’s 4 for all of them

[vast yoke]

oh mein gott bruh

[unreal stirrup]

oh nvm im stupid

it is 3

the tdr one is kinda ass

same cost as adrenaline

[astral canyon]

But yeah chem dependency still doesnt seem like that big of a deal when vulture exists

[unreal stirrup]

yeah it need buff

[astral canyon]

Burr

[unreal stirrup]

but it is funny on crit weapon like taxe

[keen timber]

It should give some movespd because ur so suped up on your own supply

[thin crag]

chem depen was put in the game for the simple fact of annoyance when doing penances

[vast yoke]

meanwhile adrenaline surge giving you straight ass out of the butt

[thin crag]

i genuinely don’t see a reason to ever use chem depen

[drowsy relic]

I like it with rampage

[vast yoke]

adrenaline surge is so ass i've swapped to vultures mark on some rampage builds

[unreal stirrup]

It not that bad considering its the only source of cdr outside stim

[astral canyon]

It would be neat but i'd like if they made chem dependency more distinct from vulture

[winter galleon]

Its also non-conditional and always on

[keen timber]

adren bangs

[unreal stirrup]

and unless you're running crate you don't want your stim to be over 50% viscosity

[keen timber]

Chem dependency is more of a cdr thing

[unreal stirrup]

adrenaline is non conditional and alway on

same for vulture mark

adrenaline+ 2 sub node is permanent 25% melee damage and attack speed boost

[winter galleon]

And realistically you have 120 seconds with 40 stacks and 180 seconds with just 3 to pop another stim because beint at 2 or 3 stacks during downtime doesnt matter

Vultures mark falls off if other people are blasting and you get unlucky and they grt the killing blows back to back

All 3 are good

[unreal stirrup]

chem isn't bad but it is kinda underwhelming comparing to the other 2

[astral canyon]

It is conditional but that conditional might as well be a if(true==true) statement

[unreal stirrup]

maybe when they make crate give stim effect regardless if it in cd

[winter galleon]

I wish vultures acted same way where stacks are lost one at a time

[unreal stirrup]

one can only wish....

[keen timber]

Adren is so good ngl

[unreal stirrup]

it's broken

[vast yoke]

idk chems value is mostly from the fact you can run bigger chems that help you less with cdr and more with shit like rending on demand, i think its fine comparatively to adren its probably just vultures thats overtuned

[winter galleon]

Taking vulturs also makes it tempting to dake vultures dodge which just invalidates the game making it unfun and actively makes you a worse player

[brave beacon]

this is perhaps true however its use in the build is an "o shit" button... in this build its primary use is to reliably move aside a bulwork shield or stagger a maller / crusher out of an overhead. Its also grate at making space when you find yourself body blocked by a horde and need to reload also it regens without the need for pickups wich i personally find to be a huge benefit

[keen timber]

Does chem give you stim cdr

[zenith pagoda]

What

[unreal stirrup]

blackout + pocket + sample is the fastest way to stim spam

[winter galleon]

Not directly but you naturally path to it

[unreal stirrup]

chem exist but it isn't infinite

[vast yoke]

it doesnt, its just right above the stim cdr node, and with chem dependencies natural cdr you can skip it on your stim and node towards more attack speed/power

whenever i dont run chem dependency i always prefer to node some cdr on my stim

[winter galleon]

Vulture dodge making you ignore 90% of the game mechanics, like any cheat mode its fun for a few rounds the gets boring and the gameplay style makes you disregard fundamentals

[zenith pagoda]

Idk what you're talking about

It's not guaranteed uptime

[winter galleon]

If your shooting with any rapid fire weapon its going to be up

[patent bone]

Hey hey again

[winter galleon]

Unless you find a way to have negative crit

[patent bone]

Can't sleep. Must scum

[zenith pagoda]

You must have a fast firing gun
You must have a high crit chance
You must be unloading your mag

For example, if you need to switch to your melee weapon to push something you dead

[dense hollow]

people still getting baited on chem dependancy on desperado builds..

[keen timber]

Theoretically you could just jot Crit, but realistically it’s gonna be 100% uptime on dual auto pistols and stuff

[zenith pagoda]

People love to talk about talents but never play havoc 40 with them enabled

[keen timber]

The intense difficulty of getting a fast firing Crit weapon on…hive scum

Wait a minute

[unreal stirrup]

yeah they literally have 3 of them

[keen timber]

And it’s all some of their best options

And they get tons of crit for free too

[unreal stirrup]

I don't think shredder is good but whatever

[keen timber]

Some people swear by it

I like shredder enough

[zenith pagoda]

So you're tailoring your build to make a talent work... That's literally how it's supposed to be

[winter galleon]

As i said 90% of game 10% if the time gotta actually play to push bursters or reload etc it still invalidates latge portions of the game

Its good its just not fun

[keen timber]

The class gets a fuckload of crit for free via stuff like vultures mark, which shockingly

[zenith pagoda]

Then don't play with it lol

[keen timber]

Is a requirement for vultures dodge

[unreal stirrup]

desperado isn't that good compare to rampage

[winter galleon]

I dropped it for that reason unless imbplaying with my friends since i have to hard carry them, they die in heresy much less higher, im just saying its bad design

[light linden]

woot? did i come into the middle of something, or is this just a general statement? 😛

[winter galleon]

Desperado is easily the strongest. Now in terms of fun yes rampage 1000%

[unreal stirrup]

raw unfiltered opinion

[zenith pagoda]

Chem crate is the strongest lol

[unreal stirrup]

in no world where you can tell me getting to be a STRONGER marty zealot for 3 minutes without anyway downside isn't strong

[light linden]

haha. can't they all be good? they're completely different tools with different applications, afterall 🥹

[winter galleon]

Strongest for team play and high havoc but raw selfish numbers desperado

[zenith pagoda]

Nah rampage is ass in havoc 40

[exotic temple]

Right but if you could free a point up it could do all those things and give everything it hits 3 stacks of toxins.

[unreal stirrup]

chem crate currently bugged a little where people are saying that it apply stim effect while stim still in cd

[winter galleon]

Fun = rampage. Strongest damage = desperado. Strongest team benefits for high level = stim crate

[brave beacon]

so what point would you move around?

[light linden]

how come?

[compact oyster]

you have to prioritize cleave over ramage since weapons get stuck on 1 moebian 21st enemy

[keen timber]

you dont need to stagger maulers or crushers out of overheads, thats why you have a dodge

[zenith pagoda]

The debuff kills you and it's frustrating to maintain uptime by hitting stuff, sometimes it's just gunners and nothing close to hit easily. Even with maxed cooldown stim you're still looking at a low rampage uptime

[brave beacon]

also ive come to the conclusion that then vultures build is stronger then the dependency build... dependency is too weak

[exotic temple]

I’m not a fan of stim duration because it won’t go on cooldown until the effect is over.

[unreal stirrup]

you're not running cdr stim with rampage

[compact oyster]

oh were talking the ability rampage

[unreal stirrup]

you run stamina

[compact oyster]

its one of hive scum's best abilities

[unreal stirrup]

also subnode doesn't have diminishing return

[brave beacon]

you are corect... the scum can dodge but then CC is helpful for the team not just you

[unreal stirrup]

so it last as long as there are elites (h40) or bosses (h40)

[light linden]

i can agree that maintaining the buff can be annoying at times, and the debuff can catch you offguard at times. yup yup

[unreal stirrup]

running stamina stim negate pretty much all downside when rampage end

[keen timber]

eh, skipping pocket tox is SO much utility and power lost

[unreal stirrup]

ideally you want to use it just before it end

[unreal stirrup]

yeah not running pocket on blackout is insane

[light linden]

im sorry, but i didn't quite understand this? cleave over rampage?

[unreal stirrup]

what kind of build that doesn't allow a single point for pocket

[compact oyster]

i thought you meant the blessing

but rampage as an ability is really good

[exotic temple]

I run two similar builds and I keep them both for what mood im in. Vultures dodge is kinda broken so its hard to pass up

[zenith pagoda]

What?

[keen timber]

there's so much stuff you could give up easily, pocket tox isnt just "make number bigger" it's actually new functionality

[unreal stirrup]

yeah you don't want to use cdr path with rampage

running stamina is much better

[zenith pagoda]

You claiming it negates the downside is just objectively false

[light linden]

during gameplay that's not easily doable in my experience. usually when you have rampage you're trying to sustain the duration by hitting something, and you're hoping you're going to keep it running instead of using a stimm and making rampage end

[brave beacon]

my stem is pure cool down.... 5 extra secs of 100% cool down means you can be in desperado more often then not... yes its much weaker each time you hit the button but it fells like you can hit the button ALOT more

[brave beacon]

i agree i wish i coud fit it in

[unreal stirrup]

the stim last like 15-20 seconds you don't have to time it perfectly but whatever

[keen timber]

u 100% could

[unreal stirrup]

plus there audio cue for when rampage about to end

[keen timber]

i guarantee it

[unreal stirrup]

the only thing that left is damage taken and it is ass

[brave beacon]

i aksed not so sly marbo what he would move so ill do the same what would you move around?

[zenith pagoda]

Assuming stim effects are additive, it's only 50% stamina cost reduction

Rampage is 75% cost increase, plus it drains 100% of your stamina when it procs, so you're immediately vulnerable

And it doesn't deal with damage taken at all

[keen timber]

well, idk what ur build looks like, so it's a bit hard to say

but I guarantee there's a spot

[astral canyon]

Pretty much the only spec you dont run cdr stimm is crate because of that subnode

[astral canyon]

Isnt rampage -75% stamina regen?

[light linden]

huh?

[brave beacon]

when you exit rampage yes

[unreal stirrup]

it stack multiplicatively iirc

[astral canyon]

Yeah its reduced regen not increased cost

[unreal stirrup]

also regen not usage

[zenith pagoda]

Regardless if you're at 0 stam then stam reduction won't do anything anyway

[keen timber]

I'd probably scrap long lasting or +25 toughness or float like a butterfly

[zenith pagoda]

If the stim granted you max stamina immediately then yeah it would help a lot

[unreal stirrup]

me blocking chaos spawn whole ass combo with 5 % stamina loss

yeah

[dense hollow]

def not scrap 25 toughness

[unreal stirrup]

it doesn't look like much but it is a lot in reality

[keen timber]

ranged scum can 100% handle it

and it's not like these nodes aren't good

I just think pocket tox is better

[brave beacon]

i tryed lousing float like a butterfly... without it vultures dodge MUCH less reliable

[astral canyon]

Stim crate ability has a subnode that makes its cooldown end when your stim leaves cooldown so cdr does pretty much nothing for it

[keen timber]

I dont run it and have no issues with my autopistols

[unreal stirrup]

it is big enough to make let you push/block without getting your stamina broken

imagine kinetic deflection level of block

[brave beacon]

the 25 toughness is A HUGE amount of toughness tho since that is before all your curios

[brave beacon]

honistly what lvl havic are you doing with your autopistols?

[keen timber]

going up in havoc isn't going to make me crit less

i have easy 100% uptime whilst firing on vultures

[brave beacon]

this dose not answer my question

your saying you dont have truble with your build and im intrested in the level of dificulty your runing your build

[keen timber]

Well yeah I'm referring to vultures uptime

I don't have trouble maintaining vultures uptime

[brave beacon]

@exotic temple thanks for your time on this matter

[light linden]

I don't run it either, and I'm doing Havoc 40

[brave beacon]

hmmmm food for thought then

[winter galleon]

float is just free 20% crit rate thats basicaly always on if your running vultures dodge, at least i think works same as close and deadly? where procs on vulture dodge dodges

[light linden]

if you like it, then use it :3
i'm not gonna call it bad!

[eager topaz]

Which Stimm combo should I drop for the team? Running cooldown & strength/crit atm...

[exotic temple]

No prob I’m trying to figure out how to word the stim duration thing. For shorter cd stims I don’t think it worth it

[light linden]

it costs 2-3 talent points to get there though 🙂

[exotic temple]

But individual mileage varies

[brave beacon]

the curent build ive ben having the most luck with.. since you are on havoc 40 may i ask your thoughts on what im doing?

[tired prairie]

Anything goes, but attack speed is very flexible from my observations

[frigid sluice]

what hivescum weapon uses heavy attack the most

[tired prairie]

Especially since it’s both melee and ranged attack speed

[astral canyon]

Mk1 shivs if i had to guess?

[eager topaz]

thx

[drowsy relic]

The shivs probably

[astral canyon]

The stabby ones

[tired prairie]

Shivs Mk3

[frigid sluice]

ok

[light linden]

i don't think you're doing anything wrong! i may have some personal preferences, but that doesn't mean what i'm doing is better. to me your talents look cohesive. you just need to "do its thing", and you'll be fine :3

[astral canyon]

They dont

[brave beacon]

would you recomend removing float like a butterfly to pick up pocket toxin?

[keen timber]

I mean yeah I think the build looks fine, I just can't fathom running blackouts without pocket tox

[astral canyon]

The only heavy attack the mk3 shivs really use is the heavy followup from push attack

[winter galleon]

pocket tox strong but blackouts on their own are very strong

[keen timber]

I'd also potentially consider getting rid of the 5 sec stim time possibly? Seems like a reasonably easy drop, I'm not actually sure how much it'll impact uptime though

[winter galleon]

but i agree if already in the area find a way to grab it

[brave beacon]

right?

[tired prairie]

I assumed that the OP wanted to know which weapon would best fit doing the <kill dudes with heavy attacks while stimm is active> penance, which is very quantity based

Shared human weapons that use heavy attacks a plenty is another story

But you have a point, there may be better options.

[astral canyon]

Oh true

[brave beacon]

i dont have defacto numbers but its notisable

[light linden]

haha, i personally probably would, because that would also save me from having to take precision violence. but i cannot imagine you'd be much worse or better in either case. pocket toxin does give blackouts a secondary purpose of killing stuff in addition to staggering though, which is great

[keen timber]

it gives them a LOT of extra utility, and just makes them even better at doing what they already do

it's extra functionality rather than just more numbers

[brave beacon]

that and the synergy with sample collector...

[winter galleon]

honestly with pickpocket+vultures dodge, more uptime on desperado isnt absolutely mandatory, its nice but you already have 90% of the buff just passively basically, just missing the movespeed, rending and 15% range damage

having base 15 second cdr stim is fine

[keen timber]

yeah kinda true

[tender forge]

Thing is sample collector wont start till the 5 seconds is done

[light linden]

yea, i think pocket toxin shines on blackouts :3

[winter galleon]

you could even argue going damage stim and using it as a second cd and just living with 45 second desperado

[astral canyon]

Eh not really

[tender forge]

Also seems like you are missing out on some really good talents for sample collector

And the 5 seconds extra stim

[brave beacon]

i understand this and dont see how this is a bad thing? up time is up time and having CDR when not up is a good thing unless im missing something?

[astral canyon]

It is very good

[tender forge]

But you are also missing slippery customer, and the attack speed per stamina node

[light linden]

you see, i'm not the best to even consider this synergy, because i'm blessed by playing with a person who loves using stimm supply on his hive scum, and he always runs the CDR stimm for us. so i kinda get desperado back so quickly anyway

[velvet iris]

Christ forgive me

[winter galleon]

sample collector also really makes a difference more with a more powerful stim, can bring a 75 second stim down to like 48ish. a 45 second stim not getting quite as much out of it and if running it for cdr youll be able to pop it after every desperado anyways

[velvet iris]

1 crowbar swing btw

rampage, and a stim that has 8+ strength\

[tender forge]

Yeah it goes hard

[exotic temple]

It just doesn’t add much total uptime vs having the stim go on cooldown and getting it back faster. That being said that’s more true for builds that use more toxin. Idk if it would be true for your build

[velvet iris]

honestly, the debuff when rampage ends. Might just be worth it lol

[tender forge]

This is what Im trying to say while typing on phone

[brave beacon]

ok so if i skip out on float like a butterfly then i dont see a need for precision violence... this would free up 2 points...
how this?

[exotic temple]

Yeah I’d have to test it but that’s what my gut is telling me

[tender forge]

I.... wouldnt skip out on float like a butterfly

[light linden]

okay, the one thing i would change is Sample Collector, but this is just from my POV :hides:
i would prefer to have Untouchable (-threat when sprinting) just to lessen the chance some random melee enemies follow me when im dashing into gunner backlines with desperado, or the Bulwark facing me when I want to shoot it in the back.
if Sample Collector is more valuable to you, that's fine :3

[tender forge]

It keeps your invul uptime better with the 20% crit chance

[keen timber]

with the autopistols it's not a problem

[spice mural]

Oh you’re building in to that? I wasn’t a fan of that final ability grinding penances.

[tender forge]

Fair

[frigid basalt]

float like a butterfly gives you too much crit to pass up

[spice mural]

You’ll notice how little uptime it has unless you get a constant flow of specials to maintain the buff. Especially when there’s a crowd of bodies. :/

[final temple]

can you ever have enough crit?

[tender forge]

Im also confused at nimble over slippery customer

[astral canyon]

I feel like maybe sticky hands would be a better drop? Idk giving up on +20% crit seems really good to pass up on

[brave beacon]

you must not be pushing havoc?

[spice mural]

Not yet. No.

[tender forge]

Yeah vulture uptime is fine in havocs

[spice mural]

Ah.

[winter galleon]

is what i run when i take vultures, but i find it boringly easy. otherwise swap vultures dodge out for whatever and then add resistance to gunners in on curios instead of cdr when i want to actually play the game

[tender forge]

Only one that teally has any upti.e issues is adrenaline

[spice mural]

The bigger hordes makes the penance really easy though! :0

[brave beacon]

slippery is still bugged at the moment and the extra doge time synergyses with FLAB

[frigid basalt]

why are you taking the 5% crit for the team though

[tender forge]

Whats bugged about it?

[frigid basalt]

granted yes there is already a node that gives you infinite ammo

[winter galleon]

o forgot to change that

[frigid basalt]

but 5% crit vs your entire team getting extra ammo

[tender forge]

Could be useful when combined with psyker

For 10%

[obsidian crown]

Because 10% of 10 is dogshit in havoc

[spice mural]

I’ve only gone as far as damnation with the hive scum since I’ve been focusing on getting all the penances done tbh. All I have left is the 100 games (currently 75/100) and the penance for doing all the other penances.

[frigid basalt]

as opposed to 5% crit though?

[obsidian crown]

Bro

[tender forge]

I got the rocket launcher one left, been having too much dun with pocket fent

[obsidian crown]

You’re giving the team like

20 ammo total across the whole team in h40 the entire mission 💀

[astral canyon]

If that was the case i feel like i wouldve seen a lot more people talking shit about it

[obsidian crown]

Ammo pickups are rare in havocs and gives very little ammo

10% of that is literally nothing

[frigid basalt]

wouldn't that make each ammo pickup more valuable though

[obsidian crown]

Just run crit or melee

[spice mural]

The blinders are crazy good.

[tender forge]

Yeah

[spice mural]

Especially when you can use them to poison groups of enemies.

[obsidian crown]

Are…you not understanding….what I’m saying

[tender forge]

Also been playing with brand new player so not many specials/elites rn

Also if recon las vet is on the team with a crit chance psyker you save more ammo

[obsidian crown]

If team needs ammo in havocs, just run vet with survivalist and you contribute to the team as scum by not picking up any ammo because of pickpocket and have a more worthwhile aura

[spice mural]

I love the damage of the chem grenade but the blinders are just so damn versatile.

[light linden]

you can't just magically add a 5th person to the team though 😛 if you choose a veteran, you're giving up something else. the Gunslinger Improved aura makes a big impact on our teams' ammo supply in Havoc 40. it even works with ammo crates

[spice mural]

(Play arbites)

[tender forge]

Also crit chance gives vet something like 90% cc with a recon las build

[obsidian crown]

Gunslinger is nothing.

[tender forge]

So 2 people not using smmo

[drowsy relic]

The dog is the 5th player better than randoms lmfao

[north meteor]

the dog actually kills trappers unlike teammates

[frigid basalt]

people don't generally run recon las vet in havoc

[spice mural]

Doggo has bailed me out in plenty of situations that’s for sure.

[tender forge]

I know but its still funny

[light linden]

it's very absurd to make good use of something in a game and desire it again, then come to this channel and have someone tell us "nope, it was nothing". we definitely do notice having gunslinger improved aura

[north meteor]

I just play melee build so I don't need ammo

[tender forge]

And would make it possible to actually run

[drowsy relic]

I once got barreled off a ledge and the last teammate got dog pounced

I ordered my dog to kill that dog and the guy got to pull me up as a resulr

[light linden]

haha 😅 you got me!

[obsidian crown]

I mean you said vet isn’t a good pick for havocs so that alone tells me your opinion is uhhh, to be taken with a grain of salt

[light linden]

when did i say vet isn't a good pick for havoc? 😛

[obsidian crown]

Here.

[north meteor]

especially when most of my havocs include a shout vet

[spice mural]

Doggo is the goodest boi fr fr

[tender forge]

I do not know if choosing vet gives anything up tbh

[light linden]

please copy/paste the text where i say "vet isn't a good pick for havoc" 😛

[astral canyon]

I dont see anywhere in the message implying vet isnt a good pick for havoc

[obsidian crown]

are you stupid

[frigid basalt]

That' doesn't say anything about vet being bad in havoc

[north meteor]

"if you choose vet, you're giving up something else"

[idle ore]

Chillllllllll

[tropic bough]

this is a room full of intelligence

[obsidian crown]

^

[astral canyon]

Also yeah chill

[frigid sluice]

anyone got a right side build I need to get my penances done

[tender forge]

This is objectively true, but also a useless statement

[light linden]

that didn't say "vet isn't a good pick for havoc" 🥺

[astral canyon]

That just means that the person running vet isnt running a different class

[tender forge]

There are 6 classes and 4 slots

[north meteor]

it didn't, but you can at least see how it can be read as such lol

[astral canyon]

You can say the same thing about literally every single class

[frigid sluice]

damn that means we can only have 4 hive scums at once

game might be unplayable

[north meteor]

"if I choose vet, Im giving up something more worthwhile" which implies that it sucks compared to other classes

[obsidian crown]

Vet’s a meta pick for havocs so that sentence was weird.

[frigid basalt]

but now you're adding on the words "more worth while"

[light linden]

i can't see that, sorry. we don't always bring a veteran in our havoc 40 groups. sometimes we bring a gunslinger alongside another class like an arbites who's also going to shoot some. gunslinger improved aura helps

[north meteor]

that's how its read lmao

[astral canyon]

Its not

[frigid basalt]

no

[obsidian crown]

Survivalist > gunslinger though.

[frigid basalt]

ye

[north meteor]

you don't have to always bring vet in havoc 40s, I'm just giving perspective lmao

[frigid sluice]

4 hive scum

[north meteor]

but Vet is easily number 2 meta pick for havoc 40s

1 being psyker

[drowsy relic]

The actual answer is survivalist and gunslinger

Since they trigger off eachother

[obsidian crown]

If you wanted your arbites to get more value for ammo, vet for survivalist. Not to mention ammo crate with field improv for grenade refills.

Is good for the team

[frigid basalt]

Wouldn't ammo crates just be a good argument for gunslinger though

since with 4 pick ups you're getting an aditional 40% ammo from the crate

which applies more in havoc than in regular

[tender forge]

Does gunslinger round up to one over survivalist(for my rumblin bois)?

[obsidian crown]

Ammo pickups are rare. And that includes crates. Which makes vet pretty valuable because of field improv. Like I said, 10% of nothing is nothing. You get what I mean by nothing. So you’ll give your team more value with crit or melee aura over gunslinger

[astral canyon]

Gunslinger does round up

[obsidian crown]

That’s why I’m saying

Trading vet in for HS because you think gunslinger is better is cope

[frigid basalt]

yeah but you brought up crates and gunslinger would make crates more effective at havocs

[tender forge]

God I love the new class chats

[frigid basalt]

well yeah obviously having vet over HS better

[north meteor]

"giving up something else" does imply "this pick is worse that other things you can take." I'm not trying to argue on this. I'm just saying how it can be read by others as this.

[frigid basalt]

HS is more a pure damage class

[tropic bough]

This is all set in stone btw and if you don’t understand any of it YOU ARE STUPID AND COPING

[frigid basalt]

vet's shout and krak spam is too strong

[obsidian crown]

And I’m saying it’s not an aura worth taking even for crates. You get like 1-2 ammo crate a h40

[frigid basalt]

but what we're saying isn't a direct comparison though

[obsidian crown]

The only time I would even consider gunslinger is if there’s a vet on the team which goes back to steiner’s point

[tender forge]

I will tell you the best aura to bring

The melee damage one

[frigid basalt]

we're saying in a typical build gunslinger provides more for your team and sure if you're going into havoc 40 then sure a 5% crit might be more valuable

[tender forge]

To help my thunderhammer homies get easier oneshot breakpoints

[obsidian crown]

But in aurics or below

[frigid basalt]

but also most of your teammates should be building for high crit if their crits matter

[astral canyon]

To me it implies that there is stuff that the class cant do as well as some other options, but it doesnt mean the class isnt valuable in other ways too

[obsidian crown]

Ammo pickups are plenty. To the point it doesn’t matter

[frigid basalt]

not even aurics, like havoc 20 and below

[astral canyon]

Like an ogryn and a vet bring value to the team in very different ways

[frigid basalt]

people take ammo they don't need

[obsidian crown]

That’s a them problem

[frigid basalt]

they'll be missing 1 bullet and still take a whole bag

that "them" problem makes it a team problem

[light linden]

haha 😅

[north meteor]

And that is also another way it can be read. I agree with you there. I'm just giving perspective on why it can be read that way lol

[drowsy relic]

I believe so all stuff like that rounds up hehe

[north meteor]

this is just semantics at this point

that being said, yea Vet is also the meta pick

[light linden]

thank you for taking my words for what they are instead of manipulating them into something else!

[frigid basalt]

I've lost some low aurics when I was running bolter purely because of people taking ammo they don't need and contributing nothing to the team

[north meteor]

That's not what I'm doing smh

[obsidian crown]

I’ve never had issues with ammo in regular missions tbh even on classes like Arbites or whatnot. There’s a lot of pickups even if team picks up ammo greedily

[frigid basalt]

yeah as long as you're smart with your ammo IE not dumping into infested ammo is typically not a problem

[light linden]

no, Desynch did. but instead of explaining to him that he's unreasonable you're trying to explain to me something that's very twisting 😛

[frigid basalt]

but the point is, it's like survivalist but weaker

you dont' need to think about it and it grants free ammo for everyone

[final temple]

so what you are actually saying is that the scummier the scum, the more they should take pickpocket and leave britney ammo drops alone

[dim moth]

zealots dumping an entire magazine into literally every enemy bigger than a shotgunner

[frigid basalt]

you could say the same about survivalist in aurics etc. That you don't even have ammo issues to begin with

[dim moth]

frequently not even killing them because of zealots garbage gun damage

[frigid basalt]

so why run survivalist if it's not havoc 40

but realistically you run it because it's a nice free passive ammo gen

[obsidian crown]

Psyker - doesn’t use ammo
Vet - usually always brings survivalist so that’s good already for any game mode
HS - doesn’t need ammo ever with pickpocket
Arbites - should be mostly melee

That’s 4 classes that shouldn’t really be picking up ammo much generally. You would think. But yes, bad players exist

[frigid basalt]

if you're running havoc 40 yeah, coordinate with your team

probably don't run gunslinger, maybe don't even run HS

but as a generic build? why not take gun slinger

[obsidian crown]

Because other auras are meh.

[north meteor]

That's what my point is though. Its not twisting. It can absolutely be read the way Desynch read it. It was also the way I initially read it. The wording was just bad, but at the end of the day we're back at the beginning now

[final temple]

I heard there are indeed scum who don’t pick pockets and still don’t scum ammo.

[obsidian crown]

“Move speed”

Also another thing to consider

[toxic dagger]

mostly, sure, but arbites bringing a mk3 shotgun or smth should be absolutely slinging shells around

[obsidian crown]

Aurics or below. People rarely stay together and Rambo (which I do too admittedly) so gunslinger aura is literally non functional there

[north meteor]

Also, yea Psyker kinda not fair

infinite ammo

[harsh pewter]

Does anyone have a good build for hive scum using a Devil Sword?
iIt FEELS like it could work but I haven't figured it out yet

[frigid basalt]

functions for anyone near others

[obsidian crown]

It only works in coherency

[frigid basalt]

we could talk about players in auric being bad etc etc

[light linden]

there's a hive scum on the team. he's bringing either Gunslinger Improved or Anarchist. what's more valuable comes down to the group. this Desynch guy has a very limited approach to the game, as is apparent from his post above

[fast gust]

players...bad!

[frigid basalt]

but realistically is 5% crit going to make such a difference in those levels either?

[obsidian crown]

You could have a guy going around roaming the map by himself picking up ammo out of coherency and it doesn’t contribute to GS aura lol

5% crit is for YOU. It’s a selfish pick

[final temple]

everybody but ogryn profits of 5% crit.

[frigid basalt]

alright sure

[obsidian crown]

10% melee is also good depending on havoc comp

[frigid basalt]

no one every stays close and no one ever shares ammo

[spice mural]

Problem I had tbh. But if folks are sticking together on a higher difficulty it’s probably better?

[frigid basalt]

everyone not in havoc 40 is playing in different parts of the map and every little bit of extra buffs will make or break your run

[obsidian crown]

Bruh. Do you have any idea how many times someone goes down in regular games and they’re all the way fucking over in narnia

[frigid basalt]

yes

but also

fuck em

[light linden]

it's probably mostly true only in uncoordinated groups. a skilled and coordinated group can beat havoc 40 with a lot more options than what you find through Group Finder

[obsidian crown]

That’s part of the reason why I don’t take gunslinger because of that.

[spice mural]

My favorite time is when we’re waiting to extract and some dude is fighting all the random trash
And refusing to get in the damn plane.

[frigid basalt]

anyone near you or near another allie gets more free ammo

[spice mural]

So when they go down and we leave without them I always smile.

[frigid basalt]

everyone else doesn't and they go down alone

[north meteor]

Bottom line: playing the game how you want to play it is important, as long as your team agrees with it and you aren't making your team 3 v hoard. The other side of the coin is that there will always be Psyker and Vet who are the outliers in endgame content

[frigid basalt]

so no skin off your teeth

[obsidian crown]

I’m just saying my personal experience is that I rarely see actual coherency in pub games unless you’re like defending an objective, they’re roaming most of the time. So that’s why I don’t see it as valuable enough to take

[wind crane]

if im about to die, can i leave the game and it doesnt ruin?

[frigid basalt]

Not anymore, no

[wind crane]

oh right

consecutive

thats what that means lol

[obsidian crown]

So I go selfish and pick 5% crit

[north meteor]

for this is exact reason it got changed lmao. Bc people just leave all the time

[frigid basalt]

yep

[wind crane]

makes sense

[frigid basalt]

people did it a lot more at maelstrom

[north meteor]

the worst

[frigid basalt]

because they were bad

[harsh pewter]

Play tanky class and tactically pic the easier aurics, don't pick maelstrom

[north meteor]

it would always be the first fight too

[frigid basalt]

kinda why zealots have a reputation for being the jackass who uses every movement speed increase to get overheaded by a crusher faster

[north meteor]

I read this as "play hive scum on maelstroms and prove your worth to the discord"

[fallen coyote]

Not dying isnt that hard part, getting 10 carefree runs is

[final temple]

I must be playing with fairies given how randoms stick together. Or. Maybe. I just stick to somebody.

[fallen coyote]

Sometimes you just get pubs who cant walk and youre just forced to duo or solo

[harsh pewter]

I mean, I got A.S.S with Hive, but I was playing out of my mind with a really strong team

[frigid basalt]

realistically people sticking togehter is pretty common

[obsidian crown]

I see what you did there

[north meteor]

this is how I play psyker. I choose someone and they're my buddy the entire game

[fiery palm]

Getting ASS with these insane busters is an achievement bro

[obsidian crown]

Tbh I play pub aurics as if I expect everyone to die. Then get pleasantly surprised when I get a good team

Can’t be disappointed that way

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[light linden]

my experience with Havoc throgh Party Finder is that randoms do stick together there

[obsidian crown]

Because havocs is a slower mode

[harsh pewter]

Vet kissed me on the forehead and gave me golden health all game (Plus blessing resitance)

[winter galleon]

pub aurics is just solo play with bots, occassionally the bots actually have brain cells

[frigid basalt]

havoc is still basically just auric maelstrom until 20

[north meteor]

I get disappointed in auric pubs when I see True Survivor or Havoc Forged (yes I know they aren't an indication of skill) and they go down immediately

[dim moth]

sometimes do the detriment of the team tbh

because nobody is willing to push to take gunner aggro

[tropic bough]

The titles are like an overshield you put on, sometimes it deflects a blow.

[obsidian crown]

Emperor’s fading light. I’ll never forget the OG one.