hivescum-class

[mossy tapir]

Both small stimm many blost and big stimm sometimes blost are good

[dim moth]

I'd recommend getting at least 3 or 4

so the stimm effects are noticable

[hazy vector]

Chem grenades are so ridiculous

[dim moth]

I have been playing stimm build

and the longer cooldowns are totally worth it because you're not always in a situation to stimm bomb

[crimson harness]

I just want to understand which paths are better to take on speed/strength parts. For melee oriented build that plays from toxins it would probably be better to take extra crits to place more stacks of them on mobs?

[mossy tapir]

I like having the strength and rending bonus for my homies and 12% damage resist for extra safety

[dim moth]

you want to get it around 20-30 second cooldown imo (including sample collector)

which for me is... a fully kitted stimm xd

cause I play super aggro

[dense hollow]

honestly i prefer getting a thick stimm to boost my teammates here if im running the box

[mossy tapir]

On a 57 second cd stimm each sample collector chem toxin kill knocks a whole second and a little more off the timer

[dense hollow]

atleast 15% rending and 20% strength? since rending is kinda universally good

[mossy tapir]

Rending also boosts your chem toxin damage a little bit more alongside the strength lol

[crimson harness]

yeah, rending is good. So I wonder if I'm running toxic saw it is worth it to boost crits even more

[dim moth]

not worth it at all

chem toxin has a nearly 1.0 ADM into every health type

[thick hornet]

That reminds me

Does the game have ANY in-game explanations of any of its terms?

[dim moth]

rending is like maybe 50 damage at maximum tox stacks

[crimson harness]

nuh uh

[hazy vector]

the fuck is adm

[dim moth]

just have higher crit chance to abuse the melee one so you can get box back faster from sample collector

[dim moth]

Armor Damage Modifier

[mossy tapir]

Still funny depending on if you build crits for yourself or not

[dim moth]

TL;DR it affects how much damage things do into health types

bleed has 0.25 into carapace which is quite bad

chem tox has 0.9

[winter galleon]

wonder if any chance at all hyper-critical gets fixed tomorrow... prob not given its FS

[dim moth]

aka almost full damage

[dense hollow]

i mean it'll be fixed by next month probably

[dim moth]

and rending increases your ADM **up ** to 1.0

[balmy radish]

soulblaze?

[supple trellis]

a small work around, if you go with adrenline and spend an additional talent point, you can tie your ability to your stim CD, which is way faster if you get kills, so you can spam it really quickly

[dim moth]

not good into carapace I think it's like 0.4 or something? have to check

[mossy tapir]

My thing is like needler already can put out max chem tox stacks without crits or weakpoints and I build for getting as much ammo out of the needler as possible to carry it through the whole mission opposed to crits with coated weaponry

[dim moth]

and by check I mean I'm going to ask psyker chat becasue I did not play staff psyker

[mossy tapir]

So im not taking anything for crits, so the rending boost has more immediate value for me, and also has value for my squad, which is fine by me

[crimson harness]

I don't know about exact numbers but soulblaze is definitely ass on carapace enemies

[tight musk]

I don't know the numbers, but soulblaze doesn't do much against armor unless you get uncanny stacks on a melee weapon while a crusher is burning.

[thick hornet]

Pickpocket is basically infinite ammo
They will probably nerf it with some sort of cooldown

[torpid cloud]

which would make the ranged archeype probably miserable to play

[thick hornet]

This is Fatshark
The Emperor works in mysterious ways

[winter galleon]

eh idk feels like class designed with having infinite ammo in mind, without it may as well just always go melee

[mossy tapir]

Yeah thats the thing they really cant without fucking over the rest of the ranged arsenal atp

[fast gust]

Assuming other gun archeotypes aren't miserable:

[dim moth]

well probably not honestly

you ca still get ammo from desperado

[thick hornet]

I like a variant of the Vet gun archtype that's infinite las ammo
It's not the best but I find it quite fun

[dense hollow]

wow you go from using your gun for 98% of the game to only 75% of the game

[dim moth]

also shock trooper vet hasn't been nerfed

[winter galleon]

i guess maybe if went pistols instead of autopistol (assuming they fix the crit damage bug) and focused on being ammo efficient outside desperado

[torpid cloud]

i mean if its like 10 seconds ill manage probably, not like i just mag dump everything

[dim moth]

and that's infinite ammo for a few weapons too

[thick hornet]

Yeah I'm thinking they'll add some 10s CD so you can still get it frequently, just so you don't have infinite ammo all the time. There's some small gap

[thorn prawn]

Or just always float around the 20% ammo mark to trigger Pickpocket and never have to touch an ammo tin

[mossy tapir]

Its like hey man, as long as it works, I just spam the needler into specials, hordes, monstrosities, you name it, drop my box, do it again

[dense hollow]

i think pickpocket will just get a slap on the wrist

just like arby got slaps on the wrist

[thick hornet]

Dueling Sword somehow gets buffed in the process

[dim moth]

now it only gives you 15% max ammo back from elite kills instead of 20%

smh

[thorn prawn]

20% into 10%?
Or maybe melee activation?

[winter galleon]

this is in reference to idea of nerfing pickpocket though

[novel dune]

How are the scum specific ranged weapons on ammo compared to regular weapons anyway? If infinite ammo gets removed I don't see it being so bad for combat shotgun or the all class auto guns

[calm aurora]

It's like drugs are bad for your health

[thorn prawn]

I like the idea of melee activation in that case

[keen timber]

Pickpocket needs a nerf to be fair, infinite ammo is really stupid

They nerfed vet aura for a reason

[mossy tapir]

Gunslinger Improved so I can steal ammo bags lmao

[north plank]

nah you gotta not goon away all your ammo

[thick hornet]

Well Scums aren't typically smart so it tracks

[winter galleon]

infinite ammo is what makes the class fun, why not just play vet if have to manage ammo

[dense hollow]

vet aura is still extreme ammo stocks on good builds

[keen timber]

It makes it stupidly op

[calm aurora]

Make that weakspot kills

[north plank]

there's so much fun about this class

[keen timber]

Desperado still gives you infinite ammo whilst it’s up

[north plank]

Inf ammo aint it

[mossy tapir]

Nerfing shit in a pve game is generally crazy work

[keen timber]

Fr

[keen timber]

No it isn’t

[calm aurora]

Vet has infinite ammo too

[frigid basalt]

?

[keen timber]

People that say this are idiotic

[north plank]

game is more engaging when you have you think about ammo

[torpid cloud]

honestly nerfing pickpocket too severely will make scum just be overshadowed by gun vet to the point of irrelevancy i assume

[frigid basalt]

it prevents insane power creep

[keen timber]

It effects the balance of the entire game

[north plank]

this is how power creep happens

[keen timber]

^

Exactly

[terse creek]

L take

[thick hornet]

You got Desperado for infinite ammo
Pickpocket should get a nerf so that there's some decision making still involved. Should I use ammo on these enemies or save it for later? Even for a little bit, that makes the game more interesting

[toxic dagger]

you can top frag in h40 and have less than 20 melee kills all told

there has got to be a happy medium between "class sucks and has no ammo" and "literally infinite ammo"

[warped quiver]

"only buff" is a very dumb take

[novel dune]

psyker staves dont count lol

[frigid basalt]

me or him

[keen timber]

Very dumb doesn’t even start to cover it

[thorn prawn]

Which it has already
👀

[toxic dagger]

no

[dense hollow]

there are psykers in these games

[toxic dagger]

hive scum can do this

[torpid cloud]

i mean il have fun with this class till its nerfed and go back to maining ogryn as i always have, no biggie

[toxic dagger]

right now

[keen timber]

There’s so many issues with only buff

[terse creek]

The “only buff in PVE” take

[frigid basalt]

yeah

[warped quiver]

I'm not going to get myself in trouble by fully expressing how I feel about it

[keen timber]

Valid

[calm aurora]

It takes an hour to kill 20 people with staff poke lmao

[winter galleon]

the class isnt as weak as youtuber doomers make it out to be, but when vet and psyker exist hard to make an argument it needs nerfs

[thick hornet]

You want to buff what's useless and nerf what's too oppressive without taking away the fun of thing in the first place

Dueling Sword should be chucked into the sun

[thorn prawn]

Every time a class receives a buff. The crusher's hp doubles

[winter galleon]

swapping from scum to vet i feel like im moving difficulty down like 5 tiers

[terse creek]

Don’t suppress your opinions my dude, say your piece regardless what others think

[keen timber]

Are they still disgustingly op?

Lmfao

[novel dune]

ah shit true, gotta swap to smite to take care of those situations

[dense hollow]

ogryn's pickaxes aren't as good as they used to be vs crushers and mauler packs because of the hp buffs :(

[toxic dagger]

desperado needs a nerf because full ranged immunity for 20+ seconds is bad design since it just completely turns a combat mechanic off, and pickpocket needs a nerf because having infinite ammo practically on-demand turns another game mechanic off and is therefore also bad design

[thorn prawn]

My shovel

[calm aurora]

Tbh FS motto is neither only nerfs or only buffs. It's only bugs.

[warped quiver]

fully expressing it would involve swearing and heavily insulting the intelligence of people propagating "only buff"

[north plank]

yes King

[thick hornet]

It is said that the Emperor used the Dueling Sword himself

[toxic dagger]

whether the class is too powerful with these talents is entirely secondary to their design being bad

[keen timber]

Pickpocket being a ranged ability that makes you immune to ranged attacks is hilarious tbh

[torpid cloud]

but like
its fun

[keen timber]

Sorry desperado

Lmfao

[toxic dagger]

the power loss from rethinking those talents can be made up with buffs elsewhere

[keen timber]

^

[torpid cloud]

desperado

[pearl flame]

I just want a fixed tree so that one skill doesn't break another

oh and fixed hitboxes

[balmy radish]

if you nerf those you can give buffs in other aspects like by desperado more damage

[toxic dagger]

epic cole had an idea for desperado where it starts with 100% dodge immunity but the % chance decreases along with the duration, and pickpocket can e.g. be made to only trigger when you are out of ammo so you have to get a melee kill to trigger it. maybe give it a cooldown. things like that.

[north plank]

We finally got a true squishy class that needs to play the game, finish the mission, remove ranged attack immunity

[thick hornet]

I'd be fine with damage negation instead of immunity
Pickpocket just needs to activate less. Either a CD or a %

I'd also like more aspects of the class to synergise better or not somehow deactivate perks by accident

[terse creek]

I’d still say go express it, but that’s just me
And if any consolation, I insult people every time, I ain’t above calling someone a troglodyte for having the dumbest takes or being ass at the game

[toxic dagger]

if that makes the playstyle too weak you can buff other stuff. buffs are easy to do, everyone loves buffs lol.

[keen timber]

Imo percent chance to avoid damage is kind of a feels bad mechanic

[dense hollow]

melee activation is cooler than just killing an enemy from 100ft away and "pickpocketting" it's ammo

[keen timber]

It’s a good idea though

[warped quiver]

you're free to get yourself in trouble in my stead

[novel dune]

thats fair yeah. Now that they exist as such though I don't see them going away. Took too much effort just to barely change dueling swords

[north plank]

Definitely wouldn't be too weak

Now you just gotta dodge slide and put down shooters

[toxic dagger]

yeah classic fatshark MO

[wind crane]

bone saw vs shivs?

[final comet]

i expect a fairly extensive tree rework mid next year

[mossy tapir]

Tbh I would agree with like a Close Range Kill requirement on pickpocket

Like thats the name of the ability

[toxic dagger]

I am willing to make it ranged DR instead

[mossy tapir]

You gotta be close to people to pick their pockets ideally you'd think

[toxic dagger]

whatever feels good without being a "turn dmg off" switch

[keen timber]

Yeah that’d be a better idea imo

[dense hollow]

but before they make it melee kill activation based id want them to fix the bone saw's rip and chainsword's rev attacks not triggering on kill effects :(

[balmy radish]

looks at range and meele keystones those need shanges and the slide and perhaps dodging through 1-2 enemies as class mainstays like vets supression imunity

[mossy tapir]

Maybe like up to 20% if you're putting your hand up their ass in melee

[main trellis]

Instead of range immunity - range dmg reduction
Instead of infinite ammo - give it cooldown?

[torpid cloud]

can someone shoot me a melee scum build? I wanna give that a shot

[young herald]

I would make pickpocket give you an infinite clip for 2s on elite kill, with a 5s cooldown

[thick hornet]

You want to use the Crowbar or Chem Axe?

[pearl flame]

go down the middle and maybe branch out a bit at the end, that's it

[young herald]

And desperado i'd change to give infinite dodge charges

[main trellis]

That would work

[zealous ravine]

range dmg dodge chance 🔥 welcome back payday 2

[thorn prawn]

+100% threat after Desperado to really mess with people

[keen timber]

The class already regens dodge so fast

[toxic dagger]

I had the same thought that desperado would be cooler if it involved actual player input to achieve its evasiveness

[keen timber]

Pickpocket really should be melee

[toxic dagger]

but I wasn't involved enough in testing to push that kind of thing through lol

[torpid cloud]

dont much care. I dont have any of those leveled so maybe something i can use with the shivs as well

[keen timber]

It makes no sense to pickpocket at rang

[mossy tapir]

Like I would agree with you that being able to dome a sniper on the other side of the map with a single needle and finding 20 needles on the floor in front of you is a little too silly

[thick hornet]

"After using a Cartel Special with over 90% Viscosity, there's a random chance for the character to die from an overdose."

[fallen coyote]

Changing their dodges on ability use would probably feel really bad tho

[torpid cloud]

if that refreshes within the 2s that would work
otherwise i dont think i can even empty my clip within 2s

[fallen coyote]

Itll feel clunky the second your desperado runs out

[keen timber]

I mean hive scum has the total damage immunity on ranged crit on vultures mark right?

[winter galleon]

could increase its ammo return, make it melee backstab kills only id be ok with that

[keen timber]

Even if you swapped desperado up not much would change lmfao

[balmy radish]

infinit dodging bar during its duration

[mossy tapir]

Or fuck it even make it like a payday 2 ass mini ammo drop on kill that you have to go pick up and trigger gunslinger aura for your homies thatd be funny

[young herald]

The other idea i had was to increase the sprint dodge angle by a huge amount, to the point you'd have to be running straight at a dude to take ranged damage from them

[mossy tapir]

With like a cooldown of course

[wind crane]

any thoughts on shiv vs. bonesaw?

is it just single target vs. horde clear?

[torpid cloud]

my point being, if the nerfs mess with my vibe i just wont touch the class again and thats that

[manic wolf]

If I see anything nuked on this class, I want it to be that

[thorn prawn]

Paid content nuked to oblivion

[pearl flame]

shivs can be brutal with cleave, bonesaw is generally "safer" if a bit underwhelming imho

[toxic dagger]

yesn't

[young herald]

1. if you can't empty the dap in 2s, you're not trying hard enough

2. even if you can't, it's 2s worth of shooting that costs nothing

[toxic dagger]

it still involves input. desperado lets you stand still and do nothing and wow look at that im dodging everything. feels weird

[mossy tapir]

Like ive played other games where if cool shit I pay for gets nerfed I will just put it down and go somewhere else yeah

[balmy radish]

the cleaver can be nutty like the firesword in vermintide 2

[toxic dagger]

but vulture's dodge is also cracked yes

[crimson harness]

Hurray another quickplay join midmatch, another team wiped from event DH

[balmy radish]

gets bonked by crusher

[frigid basalt]

I wouldn't mind if desperado gave like 90% damage immunity to range while active

[obsidian crown]

TBF you gotta dodge while in desperado. Melee exists.

[toxic dagger]

bonesaw involves more stagger and utility, shivs are more mobile but less safe.

[frigid basalt]

to create some false tension

[crimson harness]

Why did they put DH that kills an entire team inside an event

[toxic dagger]

true but i mean vs bullets.

[grand jewel]

teamwork check

just attack it

not that hard

[obsidian crown]

There’s a reason 95% of desperado players I’ve seen are floor pov. Just saying

[torpid cloud]

unless im gonna like melee scum
still have to try that

[mossy tapir]

Needle pistol build funny, its basically just a variant on the more popular bone saw melee chem tox build making use of the other shit that makes hive scum op, dont see why you need to nerf pickpocket to make needle focus not work as well as bone saw focus

[winter galleon]

its also not bad if you dont trigger it duringa massive horde... like multiple teams did yesterday on me

[flat mist]

The amount of people I've seen saying it's not that good when psyker with vraks/recon has been proccing the same thing but strictly worse for years has surprised me

[supple trellis]

strangely, i foun shivs to be safer with how fast you can move, you can sprint while charging heavy, and theres not "rip" catching

[winter galleon]

dh + crusher walls + berserkers all at same time cuz they started shrine instantly

[mossy tapir]

I think its neat, getting some stamina stuff to increase attack speed is kinda funny

[balmy radish]

they could fix the crate so the stim it uses give you a stack of dependency

[torpid cloud]

maybe two toughness and one stam curio? should be nice

[novel dune]

yeah no matter what happens, either the class staying in it's current state or getting nerfed or even reworked will rightfully piss people off when there's a pricetag to it.

[tulip axle]

is the nimble talent actually bugged?

[tight musk]

I got 3 stam curious on my scum.

[mossy tapir]

Yeah thats what I run on mine, all toughness, gunners resist, and combat ability regen on the small nodes

[crimson harness]

It's already a big problem for pubs, but it's also a build anti-boss check, which is not that usual with randoms

[torpid cloud]

no

[thick hornet]

I'd recommend the Needler as the ranged weapon since its incredible.

Top perks you go right
So perks like Tertium Welcome, Precison Violence, etc. Skip stuff for ranged

Blitz is up to you. You either go with the flashbangs for pure melee fun or go chem grenade for horde clearing. If you use Pocket Toxin, then go Flashbang for recharging minor chem grenades.

Go down. Ruffian Aura. You could use Anarchist for crits if you want I guess. I have a melee build with Anarchist.

Rampage. You absolutely need Boiling Blood and Pulverising Strikes. Forge's Bellow is great as an AOE knockback tool.

With the bottom layer, you can either go Adrenaline for pure melee or go Dependency if you want to be tankier and rampage more often. Get most of the middle path perks. You can go for Pickpocket if you want to use your ranged weapon forever.

[dense hollow]

vulture's dodge is just a better version of emphatic dodge on a class that has more crit chance than psyker does

[thorn prawn]

To be fair, that dh deals a lot less stamina damage and doesn't corrupt you by being near

[torpid cloud]

just need to get the curios for that then, my current ones ignore gunner resist cause i run desperado xD

[main trellis]

Maybe range immunity on a cooldown? Just like pickpocket change Agayek proposed?
Or mix range dmg redu with better dodges? Dmg redu would fit for that range toughness replenish - you have to keep killing or you end up dead
Would make the ability more engaging

[thorn prawn]

You can easily solo event dh and regular dh as a scum

[fallen coyote]

Needler also takes half its health before the toxin wears off

[mossy tapir]

I just dont leave the house without my Kevlar man regardless lmao

[novel dune]

staves with near constant 80% crit from 1 blessing, + the psyker talent applying to ranged and melee crits makes the psyker one way better, not to mention the assured crit on 5 weakspot hits talent

[crimson harness]

Without toxins?

[young herald]

No, it just changes the way dodges feel

[torpid cloud]

5% toughness
12% ally revive speed
4% ability cdr

on all three xD

[thorn prawn]

With toxins. I fought it using my trusty bone saw

[near mauve]

nimble just makes u go wooooshhhhh

[mossy tapir]

Yeah thats the point I wanted to make when I said like nerfing stuff in pve game kinda sucks because of situations like this ya feel me? Like I paid the admission, I'm loving how things are going once I unlock them, and then they get nerfed into the ground so it just feels like a rug pull

[torpid cloud]

thanks buddy

[crimson harness]

Well this answers that it

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-missed-over-your-head-gif-8604199

[mossy tapir]

Honestly valid

[near mauve]

hso you're saying stuff should never get balanced

[rough peak]

wrong woosh?

[near mauve]

that's how u kill games

[rough peak]

[near mauve]

wrong woosh indeed

[thick hornet]

You're welcome

[torpid cloud]

the amount of times ive been able to clutch just cause desperado was up and i could picl up all my buddies at lightning speed

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/dam-damn-gif-27530020

[obsidian crown]

So does overnerfing things as well. It’s a fine line.

[young herald]

The more i think about it, the more i like it giving massively increased sprint dodge cones. That way it heavily incentivizes the run n gun approach, while simultaneously demanding actual moment to moment choices in gameplay

[near mauve]

fatshark literally never overnerfs

that's the thing

[dense hollow]

yeah look at dueling sword's "nerf"

[mossy tapir]

I literally did not say that, if it gets rebalanced and other things bubble up to replace it, fine, but just straight nerfing stuff without recourse sucks ass

[near mauve]

i always see people fearing severe nerfs but all they do is light nerfs

[torpid cloud]

i play scum like an attack dog that sticks to either a psyker, ogryn or arbites for safety

[thorn prawn]

You still shouldn't be taking damage fighting it if you're block and dodging right

[manic wolf]

I must admit that I find it funny people are discussing sweeping nerfs to Scummer when Psyker exists, does three times the damage of any other class when played well, does so incredibly safely, has infinite cleave on thier strongest ranged option and has been like this for a good while...

[dense hollow]

they don't do severe nerfs anymore these days

[near mauve]

no need to worry about that tbh cause fatshark is too afraid ot actually gut things

they do very light nerfs

[zealous ravine]

500 more buffs to scriers gaze coming up

[flat mist]

Being able to proc EE on melee hit is also pretty good. And you still have to actually avoid melee hits with vultures dodge.

[torpid cloud]

knowing fs they will do something stupid

[dense hollow]

yeah this is true

[thorn prawn]

Severe ogryn nerfs hurt bad before the ogryn rework happened

[zealous ravine]

yea EE being on melee psyker is a massive win that hive scum melee builds do not get

[main trellis]

There is already a talent that increases sprint dodge cone; would fit similarily to zealots talent which is sadly dogwater (needs a change/buff imo)
But ye would be nice; the ability already has sprint spd increase

[mossy tapir]

Like I mean if you nerf pickpocket but buff Gunslinger's ammo share so you get more needles per box regardless of who picks it up I'd be down for that

[near mauve]

like the only major nerf they did this entire year is changing how cdr works and its not even that bad
now u just have to save your ult for few seconds longer

[mossy tapir]

Wouldn't be infinite ammo but like you get more ammo to share

[novel dune]

I'm just on the side that a 2nd psyker shouldn't of been added in the first place, but now we have it and there isn't much we can do

[dense hollow]

didn't ogryn get the most indirect nerfs of any class just by the increase to armor hp

[young herald]

Fatshark is abjectly terrified of dropping nerfs, because the combo of helldivers brainrot and the darktide community at large being both bad at the game and entitled shitheels simultaneously means any attempt to nerf will spark a review bomb that will take years to recover from

[zealous ravine]

i forgor they even changed cdr lmao

[drowsy relic]

Last time they even suggested nerfing something they got review bombed lmfao

Childish community

[candid flare]

"2nd psyker"

[zealous ravine]

i think they just have to have family guy on the side pop up whenever you're playing an inferno build with how boring it is

[near mauve]

and i dont blame them this community loves review bombing
but at the same time if u enable your playerbase to get used to being spoiled they'll act spoiled

[thorn prawn]

The recent elite health buff hurt several weapons, yeah

[balmy radish]

plasma, inferno, ds nerfs i wouldn't mind

[obsidian crown]

Not to mention it’s still a high skill floor class regardless

[grand jewel]

good

[drowsy relic]

Helldivers is so much worse but they gotta pull the fucking bandaid off

[young herald]

Yeah, I'm saying that desperado should take that talent and crank it to maximum while it's active. Give you like 160 degree cones so shit has to be right in front of you to hit you while sprinting, force players to zigzag to rush gunners, etc

[tulip axle]

whats to even nerf in the class?

[novel dune]

insane ranged damage and infinite ammo to the point where you can ignore melee combat

[zealous ravine]

teh problem with hd2 is that the game doesnt have enough depth to be both difficult and fair lmao

[tulip axle]

hive scum teammates are always down

[manic wolf]

Fire staff has been begging for a nerf for years now. Stupid fuckin weapon

[tulip axle]

cant be overtuned if dead

[young herald]

Desperado's "I'm immortal now" aspect and pickpocket's infinite ammo are the big ones

[rough peak]

smthing smthing "HOW DARE YOU NERF MY DUELING SWORD?!"

[dense hollow]

hd2 is on a dead engine just like darktide

[drowsy relic]

Toxin tin of beans

[drowsy relic]

The same dead engine! Haha!

[dense hollow]

but hd2 already hit it's limit on the engine very quickly

[main trellis]

Would incentivise that desperado feeling of ‚i face you now; we duel to death with bullets’ type shit

[zealous ravine]

at least darktide isnt on ue5 🙏

[mossy tapir]

Just kill every special before the hive scum so they cant get pickpocket ammo back 5head

[tulip axle]

so the only thing that makes it a viable hyper agressive ranged character?

[flat mist]

Do shivs have innate crit

[spice cloud]

Hd2 is so horribly optimized it succs

Its even worse then dt now

[young herald]

If you need either of those for the class to be viable, you need to pull the lobotomy pick out of your forehead already

[thorn prawn]

Crazy how ds still 2-shots crushers despite the ds nerf and crusher buff

[zealous ravine]

does seem to have extra crit when i tried it with the show crit chance mod

[novel dune]

yeah Idk how they got it so bad, it was actually decent at launch

[tulip axle]

for the ranged i mean

[young herald]

Yes

[torpid cloud]

this is what ive brainstormed up

thoughts?

[tulip axle]

well maybe the imortal thing

[young herald]

The scum is actually significantly better at ranged than melee atm

[main trellis]

Could be better

[mossy tapir]

Like honestly hive scum is a very feast or famine class, like Desperado gets extended only if YOU kill stuff, blackouts regen only if YOU (not even your own dots) kill close range enemies, you only get Pickpocket ammo if YOU kill a special

[tulip axle]

but vets can have infinite ammo las gun so whats the prob?

[torpid cloud]

[flat mist]

Thanks, thought so just couldn't be bothered reloading

[mossy tapir]

If you cant keep up with the 3 other possible tweakers in your squad also doing the same thing its gonna feel awful

[spice cloud]

Yeah at launch no problems whatsoever now it runs like shit since the latest patch.

[mossy tapir]

Especially like if youre using shit like autopistols when other people have more punch guns that can burst things down faster

[torpid cloud]

what would you suggest?

[young herald]

Desperado then takes it a step further because you don't only do infinity+1 damage, you're also basically unkillable until the sheer boredom of your existence lulls you to sleep and a crusher can get close

And pickpocket removes the only thing even potentially limiting your output

[torpid cloud]

i really like blinders

[main trellis]

First of all; what weapons?

[spice cloud]

U have to take burst of energy allways

[tulip axle]

so your saying the worst thing about hive scum is having more than one hive scum?

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/h2di-puppy-sleeping-going-to-bed-dog-going-to-bed-gif-11495956736830452104

[spice cloud]

Butst of energy and tis but a scratch are mandatory

[rotund agate]

I feel like I should use Gunslinger aura with a melee build, just because I can then get more ammo sustain for my revolver. (I cannot afford pickpocket)

does anyone want to prove the point that +10% melee damage is better (I know that already, btw)?

[mossy tapir]

I mean its definitely not gonna help to have 4 hive scums vying for the same kills at the same time

[torpid cloud]

shivs since thats thew only thing i have at max mastery rn

turns out not playing for a long time means i need to grind weapos up from zero

[manic wolf]

I havent noticed melee Scum being worse tbh, more involved, sure, but its not exactly weak in melee, you still clear house with it and put out as much damage as anyone else most of the time

[obsidian crown]

You’re exaggerating. Let’s be real. You still are vulnerable to melee. Let’s not hyperbole things.

[flat mist]

Imagine making a balanced build 🤮

[dense hollow]

i mean yeah i can't compete with a desperado dual autopistols on a melee build

[zealous ravine]

hive melee doesnt quite feel like a glass cannon the way hive ranged builds do tbh

[dense hollow]

i can't compete with psyker levels of damage

[mossy tapir]

The worst part about playing Hive scum is literally the rest of your squad in general stealing your kills so you cant pop off

[zealous ravine]

hive melee is more like a glass rifle or smth lmao

[tulip axle]

prob talking about the vultures dodge

[dense hollow]

glass? hive melee is glass?

[torpid cloud]

or youre stealing all theirs

[spice cloud]

Its a general problem in dt if too many players have same class

[novel dune]

It's been bad since colonies and illuminates for me, but each update made it significantly worse. The optimizations added recently only reverse 2 updates worth of fps drops.

[obsidian crown]

They specifically said “desperado”.

[zealous ravine]

ehh the survivability isnt even that bad yeah

[mossy tapir]

Exactly, you're fighting your squad more than the enemy

[zealous ravine]

the ranged build is probably tankier anyways though lmao

[spice cloud]

If everyone plays same class everyone will try to fit the same niche

[winter galleon]

true hive scums rush ahead, blow everything up, die, blame team, rage-quit, smoke some crack, come back, repeat

[torpid cloud]

then again when i mop up the horde of ragers or gunners that has the rest of my team on lockdown i have yet to get complaints

[young herald]

Sure, but you have super dodges, heavily boosted movement, and are attaching from range. Things don't get to melee unless you let them.

[tulip axle]

thats every teamate tho

[rough peak]

so knife zealot, but, with explosions

[obsidian crown]

I don’t take nimble.

[manic wolf]

It infact, is not. If you dont spec Hypercritcal and break one of your main toughness regen nodes its actually pretty fuckin decent when it comes to survivability, you have to play the game an not get into stupid scenarios, but it aint paper

[zenith pagoda]

I love it when people reject a clearance 40 true survivor hive scum

[toxic dagger]

I think scum is glass because it goes down to two bursters

[obsidian crown]

Nimble actually fucks you.

[toxic dagger]

as an ogryn main, that shit is just... man.

[spice cloud]

Thats also the only reason why i like havoc is because i can make sure to have a balanced team with no double class.

[zealous ravine]

and they might b bugged too

[young herald]

It doesn't matter, scum base dodge stats are great

[mossy tapir]

Yeah like in those situations having a kit like that that wants you to be center stage is great, but if your team is on level with you then it feels like it sucks

[zenith pagoda]

Bursters are broken af rn

[broken bear]

Being able to spam light attacks and have infinite toughness is crazy

[main trellis]

Try this

[torpid cloud]

nah you just have to relearn the timings
your dodge is faster, therefore the invulnerability window to ranged is shorter

[zealous ravine]

i'd rather be glassier and do more dmg by this point

[tulip axle]

does make me slide of da map

[broken bear]

Like that’s 100% one of the best toughness regents in the game

Like toughness on HIT?

Not even a specific kind of swing or kill

HIT

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. people seem to be missing the point that the skill procs on-hit, its effectively Confident Strike

[torpid cloud]

no butterfly?

[obsidian crown]

So all I’m hearing is you fully want to kill the class’s identity? “Too mobile, nerf it. Immune to everything (not really), nerf it. Ammo pickpocket too strong. Nerf it. Let’s make it worse than vet”.

[spice cloud]

Nimble is very good

[toxic dagger]

re: bursters being broken, I'm still not convinced they're more broken than normal (they've always been a bit jank) and people just notice it more because scum has so little raw DR

[warped quiver]

how are people feeling about crowbar and bonesaw

[spice cloud]

U just have to be mindfull of your dodge distance

[broken bear]

With my shivs I can basically have 20-30% toughness a second

[torpid cloud]

also why dodges on ranged weapon when im tryna do melee

[spice cloud]

Sadly not very good imo

[zealous ravine]

not as good as shiv

[spice cloud]

Look cool tho

[mossy tapir]

Hell a bunch of the other classes have stuff specifically when you or an ally in Coherency kill stuff to activate it for you so it doesnt feel like you need to fight your team for the kill feed

[broken bear]

Ngl I think a lot of long time players don’t take it cuz the dodge distance fucks them up

[toxic dagger]

like there's that explosion radius mod and people are saying "the explosion is bigger now" but are we REALLY sure that radius was 100% accurate in previous patches? lol

[broken bear]

😭

[main trellis]

Sadly no; of all the talents that was the least painful one to leave behind

[toxic dagger]

it's just a mod

[zenith pagoda]

I see this all the time

[spice cloud]

It can and i fell off ledges too but that was my own fault not the abilitys

[broken bear]

The explosion is def a lil bigger

But nothing crazy

[main trellis]

Cause less threat fucks your team over + extra dodge range = you will be able to duel shooters/gunners/specials more efficiently

[zealous ravine]

it could just be mass delusion but if it makes fatshark fix poxbursters a little its good lmao

[broken bear]

I mean Yesn’t

[zealous ravine]

cause got damn bursters doing goofy stuff

[fallen coyote]

Barrel explosion radius is also bigger than before

[broken bear]

If u didn’t have the ability you may not have

[manic wolf]

Idk man. I've been getting hit from twice as far away than I've ever been hit in previous patches. Its not 100% of the time, but its half the time

[dense hollow]

i think if these people have been playing constantly with the explosion radius and dont get killed while outside radius previous patch but now get killed they'll feel like it got increased

[zenith pagoda]

No their blast radius is much larger

[young herald]

Where the fuck did you get nerfing mobility from? I said scum has great mobility and it doesn't really matter if you take nimble or not, enemies can't get to you unless you let them

[spice cloud]

If i didnt have the ability i wouldnt dodge a lot of stuff

[torpid cloud]

crit better than melee damage aura?

[broken bear]

Literally I’d get hit by a burster I was like 15 feet away from????

[spice cloud]

The distance is also goated to mive arounf

[broken bear]

And I’d be downed instantly???

[zealous ravine]

i havent really felt that myself much idk if its placebo or not

[broken bear]

Like wtf???

[spice cloud]

I just slide and dodge around the map i dont even walk no more

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah same for me

[broken bear]

Also hive scum being downed by one burster or boss shield burst is fucking stupid

[toxic dagger]

oh yeah absolutely poxbursters are overdue fixes on verifiable issues like audio not being audible enough and players being unable to shove them if they're not actively being targeted by the burster

[grand jewel]

they're new weapons so you'd have to grind them up anyway

[main trellis]

Ofc; you go for crits & you use shivs
Dmg aura is the worst aura HS can pick tbh
Cause even for non crit melee build i would pick gunslinger for my team

[toxic dagger]

those have always been problem

[obsidian crown]

Your comment before. Whatever. I’m just glad devs don’t listen to you.

[broken bear]

Like that’s Elden ring Malena levels of dodge needed

[zealous ravine]

poxburster audio is FRICKED up lmao

[spice cloud]

I managed to actually dodge burster instead of pushing with nimble

[fallen coyote]

This has to do with your health, toughness and toughness dr. Not scum exclusive

[spice cloud]

2 back dodges

[obsidian crown]

Did you see this @toxic dagger

[balmy radish]

mister e ment something of a char size bug or positioning error by the servers if his opinion can be. counted for something

[rough peak]

turns around to 5 bursters staring at you

[young herald]

I'm not 100% certain the radius is bigger, though it definitely feels like it is, but everything else around bursters is way jankier than it was pre-patch. Especially shove detection/range

[frigid basalt]

I used to not mind pox bursters

but for whatever reason they feel like they're being spammed more often now

[broken bear]

Scum has psyker levels of this

[torpid cloud]

yeah but take my ogryn for instance
ive used my pickaxe for ages but its at 0 rn since i havent played since before ogryn rework xD

[frigid basalt]

maybe I'm just tweakin though

[young herald]

I've had so many ignored shoves since the patch

[spice cloud]

Bursters are easy af just push em

[mossy tapir]

Its just when people call for things to be nerfed they usually never go into how theyd change the class after the fact so that they'd remain fun to play

[fallen coyote]

My psyker has 271 hp lol

[zealous ravine]

thankfully the busted stuff is usually not even fun to play to begin with tbh

[spice cloud]

95% of the time i see players shoot the burster instead of pushing

[mossy tapir]

Straight nerfs arent fun, rebalances are

[frigid basalt]

desperado is very very fun

[spice cloud]

Of course ull die

[broken bear]

I shoot em if they far away

[mossy tapir]

Like ok nerf Desperado to not be immune but buff the other dodge talents so now everyone gets a little bit of that better dodge from desperado

[dense hollow]

the other 5% is me bashing it and then it gets bashed in place while doing a 360 and moving towards me on the knockdown

[rough peak]

or near a smyker

[manic wolf]

I must admit, I do like running whole matches with just the Stub Pistols. Feels kinda appropriate for a underhive gangbanger

[torpid cloud]

also charge yo phone

[toxic dagger]

well here's where I think the nimble talent might the culprit. dodging out of shove range was always a death sentence because they leap forward so far that you cannot get out of range if you can't push them, and I think scum dodges are putting people out of shove range and into the danger zone more often

[broken bear]

Nah I like smite

[mossy tapir]

Nerf pickpocket but buff gunslinger aura so everyone gets more bullets per bullet

[young herald]

I just recapped my previous comment. At no point have i ever advocated for neffing scum mobility and i never will. That's the whole point of the class. I advocate for removing the bit that let's you forget all about the mobility and facetank infinite damage for no reason

[rough peak]

It's a joke since a lot of people don't like smykers

[broken bear]

I’ll always push bursters towards vets

[rough peak]

fair

[broken bear]

My hatred of Vet goes far

[spice cloud]

Shooting is fine if its very far but imo as soon as ur teammates are even temotely near it shooting the burster is trolling.

[broken bear]

It’s the only character I don’t care to max out

[toxic dagger]

heh I managed to deliberately hit a friend of mine with a tagged burster behind a wall by sending my dog at it so it would bounce the burster into my friend

that was funny

[manic wolf]

Oh nah, I mean in situations where someone else has pushed the Burster away from the team. You know the stairs on the back of Enclavum Barros end event? One got pushed there, and I got hit whilst being almost under the launch pad in the centre. They're super fucked

[zealous ravine]

my hive scum is already higher level than my vet

[dense hollow]

i get issues shoving consistently without nimble so i dont think this is it

[mossy tapir]

Nerf the chem grenade but fix blackouts to count chem tox kills for the regen so you have an alternative idk shit like that

[frigid basalt]

pox bursters are less an enemy type

[forest escarp]

counterpoint:
🎙️ 'rally formation'

[frigid basalt]

and more a QTE

[rough peak]

I maxed them all out just cuz. Vet is probably my least favorite class to play tho

[broken bear]

Next level rage baiting

[warped quiver]

how come

[toxic dagger]

@random shuttle remember that

[spice cloud]

The crowbar just does no dmg

[broken bear]

Making them pop it randomly is hilarious

[obsidian crown]

But this is wrong. There’s a reason 95% of desperado players I’ve seen are floor POV. Despite your claim of “infinitely facetanking damage” which is a huge hyperbole. A great player can utilize desperado super well, yes. To the point it’s nearly broken. But in most players hands, they’ll die. Over. And over. Gotta be careful with the “balance”.

[spice cloud]

And the bonesaw has a weird moveset imo

[zealous ravine]

their dmg just isnt as good as shiv and they take more effort from my experience

[broken bear]

Same

Ogryn is fun cuz big man Ogryn

Psyker cuz space wizard

Zealot cuz well zealot

Hive scum cuz crack addict with a knife or gun

[frigid basalt]

Anyone know what's going on with the weapon customization mod?

[broken bear]

Vet is just… boring

[rough peak]

I should have deleted my vet instead of my 4th zealot for the hive scum tbh

[frigid basalt]

like why it was hidden from nexus?

[broken bear]

😹😹😹

[spice cloud]

Also bonesaw heavy attacks do this weird thing like a chainsowrd but its ass

[broken bear]

I got one of each tbh

[zealous ravine]

they're fully remaking it

[toxic dagger]

balancing around skill issues can lead to homogenous class design. I love scum for breaking that mold and daring to have high highs and really low lows and being more difficult to pilot than e.g. arbites

[rough peak]

loadouts mod gave me more slots so I used them cuz I could

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw feels weirdly low dmg for how heavy it looks

[tight musk]

Man, I feel like I need like 3-5 extra talent points to make melee scum really work.

[young herald]

If they're dying with desperado with ranged immunity, nothing will change if you remove the ranged immunity, because the scum isn't gonna live through getting clobbered by a crusher either way

[main trellis]

Maybe your build is whack

🤔

[spice cloud]

That aswell and the blessings for bonesaw and crowbar succccc

[rough peak]

I realy like zealot

[spice cloud]

Idk

[broken bear]

Arbites truly is ChatGPT of Darktide

[obsidian crown]

That’s why I’m saying the balance has to be super careful here. Because this class has a huge huge huge skill gap. I feel like only 10% of the community can really maximize HS effectiveness as is.

[spice cloud]

I really think its quite bad honestly

[toxic dagger]

crowbar dmg does suck, if you just compare it to other weapons with better blessings it came out undertuned

[young herald]

Crowbar does oodles of damage

[frigid basalt]

Is there some replacement in the meantime?

[torpid cloud]

what kinda stimm would be good on a melee scum
prolly something to tide you over while rampage is on cd i recon

[toxic dagger]

which is BASED

[frigid basalt]

using bolters and autoguns kinda suck without it

[light linden]

Does Toxic Renewal grant you +15% toughness when a teammate kills the enemy? (Replenish +15% Toughness when an Enemy infected by Chem Toxin is killed by a Melee Attack.)

[toxic dagger]

games that have nearly impossible to play characters with a super high skill ceiling are BASED

[zealous ravine]

modded discord has the early version of the rework but it doesnt work on hive scum weps if i had to guess

[manic wolf]

Just stop Desperado from extending its duration, give it an extra 5s with a sub-node instead and give Pickpocket a 10s ICD, sorted. There isnt much need to strip the class identity, and tbh, being able to go the whole mission with guns up? Thats fuckin dank

[spice cloud]

Yeah cdr and dmg

[toxic dagger]

(i played dota 2 for thousands of hours, invoker and meepo are legendary for this reason)

[dense hollow]

is invoker the one with like 30+ skills or am i thinking of someone else

[main trellis]

I use str & att spd

[frigid basalt]

The extended_weapon_customization?

[zealous ravine]

yea

[torpid cloud]

the full paths? 75s cd?

[frigid basalt]

I have very few games with over 1k hours

[rare stirrup]

meepo players scare me

[spice cloud]

I do yeah

[frigid basalt]

warframe and maplestory

[rare stirrup]

invoker i can understand

[frigid basalt]

and heavily regret my time in maplestory

[toxic dagger]

it's conceptually dank but it currently plays out with desperado scum being the easiest build to play because shooting enemies in darktide takes less skill and involves less mechanics than engaging the melee combat, while also dealing the most damage

I think that's backwards

[spice cloud]

What even is maplestory?

[frigid basalt]

bad rpg

bad mmo

[flat mist]

So is there actually anything bugged (or just negative) about nimble or is it all just bullshit?

[toxic dagger]

lol maplestory 🤝

[young herald]

but it's a pretty decent manhwa

[zealous ravine]

i wish gams figured out how to make ranged gameplay more interactive

[spice cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/bowmaster-bowman-bowmen-maplestory-bowmen-maplestory-bowman-gif-3511731792348557833

That it?

[young herald]

looks like it

[toxic dagger]

nothing bugged, description bit misleading though

[frigid basalt]

that's basically the gameplay for 99% of your time

[spice cloud]

Looks kinda cute ngl

[mossy tapir]

Ranged combat evolved so you wouldn't have to interact with people

[flat mist]

In what way?

[rare stirrup]

wait what does it actually do

[toxic dagger]

it speeds up your dodges instead of "extending" them so the dodge window against bullets is smaller, but it does improve dodge linger so it breaks tracking on enemy melee attacks for longer

[manic wolf]

Idk that it is easier tbh, I feel squishier playing an all gun, all the time build than I do with a melee build because toughness is so inherently tied to melee. That being said, I also don't play automatic weapons and only the Stub Pistols whilst doing do, without Vulture's Dodge (which is a dumb talent anyway)

[rough peak]

I see this and am like "poor mushroom boi"

[frigid basalt]

the other 1% is asking your friends to carry you in a weekly boss fight at exactly 1am monday

[mossy tapir]

Why stab someone close when I could stab someone extremely far away

[flat mist]

Thank you @toxic dagger

[toxic dagger]

uzi desperado is a different story

[frigid basalt]

because if you don't do it at exactly 1am monday every other sweat player that even reaches those boss fights will have finished them and can't help you

[clever wren]

The downside is your teammates might also have ranged combat
Imagine playing as Chev Chelios from Crank but the people who are trying to help you keep removing all the potential adrenaline in your path

[mossy tapir]

Why stab someone far away when I can throw an ICBM at them from the comfort of my own home

[young herald]

nimble gives you +50% dodge linger, meaning melee attacks won't track you for an extra 0.125 seconds after dodging, and +25% dodge speed, meaning you move farther, faster, but come out of the dodge sooner so your invuln window to boolets is shorter

[manic wolf]

So maybe the issues stem from that and automatic weapons should work differently in Desperado. Rather than nerfing the ability super hard, delete Vultures dodge and put a small ICD on extension timer so automatic weapons dont have a massive power increase over non-automatic weapons

[sick junco]

👍

[toxic dagger]

uzi desperado specifically is wild because of the built-in run n gun letting you put some other useful blessings like speedloader and blaze away for fast reloads and high deeps. then you proceed to sprint directly at the enemy at the speed of sound while firing at all cylinders

[rough peak]

[toxic dagger]

this effectively makes you untouchable by melee while also being invuln to ranged

[mossy tapir]

Its quick, its easy, and its free

[zealous ravine]

meanwhile melee builds get no movement speed

[toxic dagger]

if you are skilled enough with movement, you can go anywhere on the map and do anything you want and get away scot free

[thorn prawn]

Imagine if it had Stripped Down

[frigid basalt]

crushers trying to kill you? just run away

[young herald]

just rework desperado and pickpocket so they don't delete one of the few mechanics ranged builds still have to deal with. Simple as

[mossy tapir]

So people with high skill excel at the game 5head

[clever wren]

its free
Only if it takes too long to get there

[rotund agate]

ah, I didn't know that it reduces my ability to dodge boolets...

I am starting to doubt Nimble's usefulness on melee builds...

[manic wolf]

Well there you go, take some of the benifits away from the Uzis, if thats the main source of problems, thats what should be fixed. And yes, Vultures Dodge on a high crit, high RoF weapon is absurdly stupid and thats one aspect of the class I have no idea how it was allowed to make it into the live game

[toxic dagger]

well it requires like

one skill element

[random shuttle]

Desperado should just be nerfed to "Click Ult to win the game" so it is balanced for other players.

[toxic dagger]

no the problem is definitely the total bullet immunity from desperado and the total infinite ammo from pickpocket.

[zealous ravine]

scriers gaze got so powerful they had to split it into rampage and desperado

[obsidian crown]

I think you’re just knee jerk reacting atm. Not like purg psyker exists or anything.

[zealous ravine]

ok but can we just vaporize inferno staff

[toxic dagger]

brrrrt ults will always be better with brrrrt weapons, same goes for barrage on ogryn being better with twinlinked stubbers than heavy stubbers. this is a non-solvable issue. but it's also not an issue, that's just something having more synergy than another thing.

[young herald]

it's very good for every build; it just changes the profile/feel of dodges, and you gotta be cognizant of that. Nothing wrong with just not running it either though

[toxic dagger]

desperado has a design problem and pickpocket has a design problem.

[manic wolf]

Been asking for that to get nerfed for fucking years. Infinite cleave is just so stupid

[clever wren]

In atoma, inferno staff vaporizes you

[toxic dagger]

it does more dmg than purg psyker

[zealous ravine]

its weird i dont even see people ask for inferno nerfs that often

[random shuttle]

I am not sure.

I never did a Solo Auric Maelstrom. Just not skilled enough to do it. On any class.

I picked up Despacito Scum and did it first try without any problems.

I am just not that good. So there is something fundamentally broken here.

[manic wolf]

Thats because people bum-suck Psyker being able to do everything for them lule

[zealous ravine]

idk i play psy just for greatsword the staves are quite boring usually

staves cant even get useful specials lmao

[toxic dagger]

psyker can also "turn off ranged damage" but needs to stay in the bubble for that benefit, which requires holding ground which means being vulnerable to melee elite pressure. desperado scum just runs away lalalala

can't touch this

[rough peak]

who would have thunked that bullet immunity and infinite ammo would have been busted

[obsidian crown]

Missed the point. He’s talking about scum not engaging in melee much. Inferno staff is the same way. It’s mostly inferno staff.

[toxic dagger]

right? lol

[manic wolf]

Psyker can turn off all damage with crit stacks and an automatic weapon too ¬.¬

[grand jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-what-insomnia-no-sleep-gif-13337078

[zealous ravine]

then the ammo explodes in 3 minutes

[toxic dagger]

it needs to spend ammo to do this

scum has infinite ammo

[random shuttle]

Well my point is that Despacito Scum trivalizes the game fo real fo real no cap, homie.

[toxic dagger]

not the same

[rough peak]

does desperado work vs snipers? I've been too scared to test it lol

[random shuttle]

yes

[broken bear]

Tbh 90% of ranged scums strength would be ruined by taking away the ammo

[broken bear]

Anything ranged

[obsidian crown]

Only if you’re good at the game. Downplaying your skills is disingenuous. Most people can’t solo aurics even with HS.

[broken bear]

Even the boss plasma guns 😹

[manic wolf]

It kinda is the same, the issue is the same, you're turning off damage. And I will say without a doubt, the worst thing about Scum isnt having infinite ammo, its being immune to everything, all the time outside of reloading

[broken bear]

I love standing in front of 20 gunners and taking 0 damage

[toxic dagger]

I can forgive this a little because of the wizard fantasy but purg psyker played optimally will switch to melee to deal with e.g. crushers or for improved dodges to survive

[frigid basalt]

can't seem to get it to not crash the game

[obsidian crown]

I said mostly.

[ashen hamlet]

okay

finally bought hivescum

[random shuttle]

Sure, I am not exactly downplaying. Just saying never managed to do that on other classes, but on Scum - and just a few days after getting the class! - I did it no problemo first try too. Which tells me... something.

[ashen hamlet]

What weapons are good, what is shit

[rough peak]

I'm just too used to dodging snipers I never tested desperado with it x.x

[ashen hamlet]

in caveman terms

[obsidian crown]

I mean I’ve done it on arbites and psyker

Just disingenuous though.

[rough peak]

And I don't want to get burned so I dodged anyway

[broken bear]

Default weapons are good, I recommend desperado for leveling

[manic wolf]

I would advocate for just staight up deleting Vulture's Dodge and see where the class sits before any other sweeping changes come into effect

[toxic dagger]

someone i know has been gunscumming hard in h40 and he has scoreboards with top frag dmg, ahead of purg psyker in his team, and less than 20 total melee kills lololol

[ashen hamlet]

How is the hacksaw

Only weapon im interested in

[zealous ravine]

guh it might still be fully outdated then

[zealous ravine]

its decent

[broken bear]

Ngl I don’t think I even proc it half the time

[ashen hamlet]

Not a huge fan of the shivs

[frigid basalt]

unfortunate

[rough peak]

1st hivescum experience I watched was Cole's dual autopistol build on havoc 40

[frigid basalt]

playing vet without the mod really sucks

[manic wolf]

It procs on every ranged crit, with no internal cooldown. Its disproportionally powerful on high RoF weapons and literally turns off all damage all the time

[rough peak]

Seeing a darktide pro play like a recon vet was hilarious

[random shuttle]

Love the hacksaw. Great toolbox weapon.

A great boon in any boss fight.

[broken bear]

Uh

What’s the description for the node again

😹

[ashen hamlet]

Kerfus if you like it, I like it

[flat mist]

It doesn't stop melee damage

[ashen hamlet]

What about ranged weapons?

[broken bear]

It does

[ashen hamlet]

Ive only played ogryn so I dont know shit about these guns

[manic wolf]

It does.

[flat mist]

Nope.

[random shuttle]

Take a Needle pistol. Shoot stuff. It dies. 😄

Doesn't matter what it is.

[broken bear]

Yes it does tf

😹

[kind mist]

Tooltips are terrible, you count as dodging. You aren't immune.

[random shuttle]

Crusher, dreg, dog, mutie.

[broken bear]

Rage bait used to be believable

[flat mist]

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/WlVJa1

[zealous ravine]

shoulda locked in

[flat mist]

Very clearly does not.

[manic wolf]

Brother you are shooting a Bulwark shield lmfao

[broken bear]

Skill issue

[flat mist]

It's proccing lmao

[rare stirrup]

you can see the effect proc

[tight musk]

Rampage should give you a speed boost or smth.

I can't get to enemies fast enough before it runs out, and if it runs out part way to the next enemy, I am left with no stamina and I take a ton more damage on an already very untanky class.

[broken bear]

It works for me 😹

[rough peak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1406988061509681285/image0.gif

[broken bear]

Don’t resist

[young herald]

re: Vulture's Dodge, Vulture's Dodge doesn't do anything to any damage

what it does is put you in "dodge state" vs both melee and ranged attacks

meaning ranged attacks miss and melee attacks don't track you

that's it

[manic wolf]

Which leads me to beleive the screen popup is tied to your gun rolling a crit, not that crit hitting an enemy

[kind mist]

Why do you invent such theories?

[broken bear]

If you are standing still in Darktide you deserve to get hit

Like

😹

[flat mist]

I was testing lmao

[young herald]

basically what vulture's dodge does is allow you to be functionally unhittable while moving and holding down left click with the DAPs out

[broken bear]

I believe this is why we have differing views on it

[young herald]

at least until you have to reload

[broken bear]

Cuz one movement key is always pressed with me

[rough peak]

unironically true

[broken bear]

Exception is made for shieldgryn

[random shuttle]

But Standing still gives you 80% Rending...

[manic wolf]

So you dont get hit if you're moving. Still functionally damage immunity all the time because like, you're always moving in this game

[broken bear]

But they like… are intentionally getting hit

[manic wolf]

Its just a very stupid skill and shouldnt exist

[broken bear]

Shocking if you play like a lobomite you get killed

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[broken bear]

It is sorta crazy given auto pistols have like 40-55% crit

[clever wren]

If not lobotomite class then why lobotomite shaped

[flat mist]

You can still get hit while moving

[broken bear]

Which id have to calculate the actual rate per mag

[flat mist]

It's just rarer

[broken bear]

If you are bad at the game*

[main trellis]

So… if i have my VD active and a teammate dodges into me while chased by an overhead i die if i don’t dodge?

[manic wolf]

You die if you're not moving

[broken bear]

It’s not shaped like Arbites </3

[flat mist]

You can die even if you're moving.

[random shuttle]

Teammate tracking a Crusher Smasher onto your tushie is the true friendship we found along the way.

[broken bear]

One crusher took out three of my team the other day (including me)

😭

[clever wren]

There's a wingman joke in there somewhere

[pulsar aspen]

Sounds like a skill issue.

[broken bear]

It was a skill issue

It was fuckin hilarious tho

[main trellis]

Pointless to run it then technically; just stack cdr & remain in desperado forever

[broken bear]

We truly each got pounded by that crusher

[dense hollow]

from @azure mist's pov https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/lF6KFDN5DVGrKs2vi?invite=cr-MSx5UHUsMTA3NDAxNTcz&v=9

[rough peak]

That crusher was the main character

[main trellis]

ChD keystone better if you run crits for desperado then?

[rough peak]

john darktide

[main trellis]

Looks like it

[broken bear]

I just know he was giggling

[rough peak]

Most I think I've seen is 2 deaths from 1 crusher overhead, that I can remember at least

you start forgetting stuff in 2k hours

[sleek grove]

yes

[dense hollow]

poor arbites couldn't even see what was coming before it was too late

[sleek grove]

If you can, honestly just run a 45sec stim and just CHD with even all 3

[broken bear]

I was reviving a friend, the other was was protecting me… crusher swung as I got the downed guy up… we all died.

[random shuttle]

Because I refuse to seperate my dodge from my jump, my fav crusher moments are when I am ready to dodge out of his smash but instead I aggressively jump in front of him.

[broken bear]

Peak Darktide

[random shuttle]

Classy stuff.

[main trellis]

The dog axe slap was funny

[broken bear]

[young herald]

correct

[clear isle]

so lads, are there any anti armor things I can do as a level 18 ganger?

[broken bear]

Shiv

[clear isle]

cuz lowkey losing on malice is getting insufferable

[broken bear]

And/or run away like a bitch

That’s what I do half the time

[misty hearth]

Hey, is it possible to keep the default Ability talent?

[broken bear]

Desperado.

[neat musk]

You have your grenade already? If so, soup grenade is the best option

[calm aurora]

chem nade

[rough peak]

gas or rockets

[clever wren]

Knife :^)

[broken bear]

(Shivs)

[clear isle]

cant, half the time other players are also gangers

[misty hearth]

Yes.

[main trellis]

Man thats quite dogshit

[broken bear]

Run faster.

[dense hollow]

needle pistol

[misty hearth]

But not exclusively for the Hive Scum.

[broken bear]

You just need to run faster than the person behind you

[main trellis]

Pointless to run then

[manic wolf]

Yeah... Knife and Shiv are kinda the best options for having to melee armour at low level

[clear isle]

tbh I kept using blackouts, ig I shouldn't use them

[dense hollow]

blackouts are good

[fast surge]

Axes are good too

Whether combat or tactical

[manic wolf]

Knife is also broken on Scum with all your skill points because you generate an absurd amount of toughness just by spamming lights lule

[broken bear]

Legit I love it

Spam shiv, hit 10 enemies, full toughness

[calm aurora]

crusher overhead is coded differently than a regular melee attack right

[broken bear]

Crusher overhead gives me an explosion ring on my mod 😹

[clever wren]

Blackouts can eventually spray chems as well, and being able to regenerate them is huge

Trying to get the rocket launcher penance and legit doing whole aurics with zero (0) grenade boxes

[clear isle]

true but it feels really annoying to just use reskinned knife when they added 2 other cool weapons (crowbar and bonesaw), they look so much cooler

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blown-mind-blowing-mind-blown-gif-shocked-pikachu-face-blown-away-gif-2534211871731816473

[manic wolf]

Was messing around with a melee DoT build last night an it is disgusting. Crazy damage output and enourmous amount of safety. Its funny when people say Scum is glass because like ghad damn can he be tanky

[calm aurora]

it's more like he's tanky when he can hit and kill

[misty hearth]

Wait, can't you use crowbar for anti-armour?

[random shuttle]

Yeah of course, Scum is super tanky. Lots of quick Toughness, some solid DRs, and good mobility and also he ca-

Silent Mauler Overhead from Behind

[young herald]

yes, crowbar in special mode will fuck up armor pretty good

[rough peak]

I felt that in my soul

[broken bear]

Drop the build

[young herald]

fr though, if you want anti-armor scum, just run chaxe

it's so good

[clear isle]

unfortunately crowbar got the great sadness curse of despair (two crushers/maulers/ragers and its over)

[rough peak]

I got silent overheaded by a crusher the 1st time I took true grit on arby

[broken bear]

Shiv also has throwing shiv which 3 of will kill a crusher

[manic wolf]

Yeah, but the only classes that dont suffer in that scenario is Oggy and Arb lul, you really can't do much when the game decides to fuck you over, but most of the time? Yeah, pretty damn survivable

[dense hollow]

you can survive a mauler overhead even on h40 i think from full hp in a melee build

[random shuttle]

Well sure but you forget

[dense hollow]

i was taking 45 damage in aurics from a mauler overhead to my hp

[manic wolf]

Remind me later, im not signed in atm

[random shuttle]

I am Oggy/Arby main

[calm aurora]

the scum and the maulers around him

[toxic dagger]

I love blocking crusher overhead with Ogryn shield with last guard

[clear isle]

thats funny lol, I never knew that throwing shivs go through armor too

[toxic dagger]

Absolute cartoon cinema

[random shuttle]

Me, when I die to a Mauler:

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-impossible-marvel-shocked-gif-15104180

[toxic dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/bounce-back-ouch-hammer-slam-rebound-come-back-is-real-gif-14711240

[compact oyster]

maulers either break my toughness or delete 75% of my health

i never get downed by them anymore

[toxic dagger]

It's the chem toxin. Very high dps into anything

[random shuttle]

After playing scum for days

I played some rounds with Arby / Oggy

and it is hilarious 😄

[clear isle]

throwing shiv always has poison? or is that a talent I have to take?

[random shuttle]

Especially on Oggy

[calm aurora]

I alternate between ogryn and scum now

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/man-free-man-freedom-free-chain-gif-2032133702890087634

[random shuttle]

Scab Bruiser hits me on Oggy, I lose like 5 HP: "Huh"

[compact oyster]

the feeling of finally having fun again

[broken bear]

It’s the DOT

[pearl thistle]

Its not that bad, we kill them easily all the time, let them kill us every so often

[broken bear]

The actual knives do fuck all

The fact the dot 3x = crusher is nuts

[pearl thistle]

They derserve it for being such a good enemy

[random shuttle]

or Arby

[rough peak]

"Wait, I didn't lose 2/3rds of my hp from 1 hit from a basic bitch?!"

[random shuttle]

where I can just push my face through a wall of Ragers/Crushers

Literally face first

MY FACE IS MY SHIELD

[clear isle]

literally how it felt yesterday when I got tired of 3 losses in a row, swapped to ogryn and finally won (same party for all the missions)

[toxic dagger]

the thrown ones always have poison

[broken bear]

Kerfus I enjoy your simple outlook on the game

It’s like watching Lenny from mice and men

[toxic dagger]

I had the same experience, it's why I was playing oggy and arb when you joined me the other days

especially that first ogryn game

was like sinking into a warm bath

no thoughts, head empty, pickaxe smash.

[broken moss]

real. going back to arbites was so refreshing. not having to play keepaway with everything so I can mash lmb and come away with a meager damage bonus over other classes felt amazing. I like scumbag but arbites still the main

[toxic dagger]

mmmmm.

good stuff.

[random shuttle]

yeah and the feeling of having 1000 HP and 3000 toughness.

[broken bear]

Zealot and Ogryn are my go to brain off

Zealot to be hyper aggressive

[random shuttle]

Also whenever I play non-ogg.

[broken bear]

Ogryn to feel like a literal tank

[random shuttle]

I so miss my ability to just booty slap hordes aside

[broken bear]

And see 50 chaff explode from one shotgun shot

[broken moss]

scumbag is pretty braindead. you just need to be mobile

[thorn prawn]

Ogryn job is to protect little ones

[random shuttle]

Oh yeah its more about the feeling

I am tense on Scummy. Tweaking. Stimming, you might say.

On Ogryn I am drooling. Blinking hazily. Saying "Hrug" a lot.

[manic wolf]

Had a game with a level 4000 Ogg in it last night. Easiest game of my life. We literally walked through heretics like they werent even there. Ogg/Scum melee combo goes hard as fuck

[near mauve]

fellas

are they gonna fix dodges before going on holiday

[random shuttle]

There was once this legendary ogryn

GIRTHQUAKE

every game I seen him in, he was like a tiny shard of the Emeperor.

[broken moss]

me on ogryn

[ashen hamlet]

IVE SEEN HIM

[young herald]

there's nothing to fix?

[ashen hamlet]

Dude was a fuckin beast

[broken moss]

fun to play but it's like I got put in a mud pit compared to other classes. so fuckin slow to do anything

[random shuttle]

Unstoppable, unkillable, demolishing engine of heretic dismemberment, that Girthquake.

[near mauve]

that's whate i named my new ogryn

[broken bear]

Girthquake

[near mauve]

but i changed it to BORK LASER

[broken bear]

Sounds like a great porn name

[near mauve]

(brock lesnar)

[thorn prawn]

Exactly why everyone loves oggies in their team

[broken bear]

One aggro Ogryn makes scum fun af

[ashen hamlet]

Scum is actually kinda fun?

[broken bear]

Why yes create a big blob for me to shoot big man

[ashen hamlet]

And this is coming from someone who only plays ogryn

[manic wolf]

Ehh, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I don't enjoy being in a lobby with a Rumblergryn

[near mauve]

idk ive seen multiple people complaining about dodges not counting and i felt it myself so either servers are fked or something's wrong with the game

[ashen hamlet]

I like being shirtless

maybe thats why I enjoy it

My ogryns confined with his shirt

[broken bear]

It’s probably a skill issue

[young herald]

servers are definitely fucked with the free weekend, so that's very much a thing

afaik though, dodges are working just fine

[thorn prawn]

Emperor forbid, gunluggergryn

[near mauve]

me? skill issued? HEH NEVER

[clever wren]

Servers might be fucky with the new class + free weekend population spike, I've been getting 2004'ed and 2014'ed regularly

[manic wolf]

I don't mind that overly tbh

[thorn prawn]

That ones that vacuum ammo

[manic wolf]

Said Ogg last night was playing a twin Stubber

[thorn prawn]

[random shuttle]

When I want to win no matter what and not think

[calm aurora]

ogryn has a shirtless cosmetic rn

[random shuttle]

I go Rumblergryn

[manic wolf]

But I was on a melee build so ammo was a total afterthought

[random shuttle]

[thorn prawn]

That oggy was lucky

[random shuttle]

Just shoot rumbler until everything dies.

Never failed me yet.

[calm aurora]

meet BIG-BEAUTIFUL-BILL

[manic wolf]

It wouldnt have made much odds either way, Scum is mostly ammo-pickup free

[near mauve]

i just paused playing and went to play night reign
look at this shit bro https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1405266145212235889/1446813871514976307/XuooVQh.mp4?ex=6937fceb&is=6936ab6b&hm=779d31c6b2c56363bf9e9d7daea572d65eb96fa6e9d3f6a85f3ef00f71098834&)

[clever wren]

Pickpocket for Glugger when

[thorn prawn]

Gotta appreciate these moments until Desperado and Pickpocket are nerfed

[manic wolf]

I doubt they're gonna get changed all that much tbh

[random shuttle]

Gunlugger will just get a talent that gives him 5000 ammo in the backpack but inability to pick ammo other than from crates.

[thorn prawn]

They like to make multiple changes over a long period of time, it adds up eventually

[clever wren]

Gonna be a while before they do, otherwise they'll be accused of releasing scummer in an overpowered state for hype sales, then nerfing it after the hype dies down

[thorn prawn]

I got front row seat as an ogryn

[calm aurora]

Ogryn was perfect

[manic wolf]

Yup, but reason I dont think its gonna change much is that its very much baked into the class identity, they might tweak values, but either Desp' or Pickpocket will still be crazy value pickups regardless

[calm aurora]

they had to change the game first

[thorn prawn]

Which time period are you referring to?

[random shuttle]

BTW new zealot personality is voiced by Spongebob

[calm aurora]

the first one 😄

[spice cloud]

Ehhh

[calm aurora]

right before the tree

[thorn prawn]

Right after talent tree update? I agree

[clever wren]

Honestly, if it's overtuned I would rather they nerf other things and leave the effectively-infinite ammo alone. I actually like that there is a class with both ability and incentive to just hold down Mouse1 at hordes and not have to go "noooo I can't shoot zombies, I have to conserve my heckin ammorino"

[calm aurora]

I started during the beta

[spice cloud]

Ogryn being able to dodge into trash mobs is important for me

[thorn prawn]

That was good too from I heard, but was before my time

[spice cloud]

The rest i dont really care

[random shuttle]

That was the biggest blessing.

[spice cloud]

It was kinda weird gettimg stuck as oggy

[mellow rune]

[random shuttle]

I am proud to say I was one of the testers who fought tooth and nail for it to be a thing

[spice cloud]

HELL YEAH

[calm aurora]

dev not playing darktide confirmed

[spice cloud]

It gotta be good

[thorn prawn]

It's basic physics after all. They can't argue against physics

[random shuttle]

Since I am bragging (not low-key), the giga-push talent is also my baby 😄

[rough peak]

oggies getting stuck on poxwalkers was kinda stupid >.>

[rustic lava]

There's a new zealot voice? Male or female

[random shuttle]

And since I am bragging, the Healing Mutation on havoc and Demonhost rituals was my brain child too

[ashen hamlet]

The purple is ugly

[thorn prawn]

You monster

[calm aurora]

don't be picky

[manic wolf]

It was also detrimental to the class' survivability. Can't dodge shooters with a massive hitbox if you're hemmed in by shite

[glad latch]

Yeah.

Who would win, 1 ton mountain of a man or 50kg starving zombie

[rough peak]

^

[young herald]

imagine what could happen if you used your power for good

[spice cloud]

Yeah it also means that nothing below crusher\bullwark spam is any threat to you tho

[random shuttle]

"But I don't want to cure cancer. I want to turn people into dinosaurs."

[young herald]

(fr, rituals are great when they're not bugged, but purple is a curse)

[rough peak]

Me watching a level 30 ogryn die to 1 rager on malice:

[spice cloud]

Ogryn can be very broken in right hands

[manic wolf]

I wonder how 1.0 Darktide would feel compared to what we're used to now

[young herald]

slow

[manic wolf]

Yeah, it was certainly slower paced

[rough peak]

slow

[random shuttle]

Petition to FS to release Darktide: Classic 😄

[limber cradle]

Tbh DH rituals is such a nothing modifier to me until they spawn in a bugged location and you literally cannot get to them in time

[random shuttle]

First build

[spice cloud]

Ogryn is the hardest at first but now its easyest class for me

[young herald]

1.0 darktide was when you'd get like 3 specials a minute and a crusher ball of 4 of them was scary

[broken bear]

Ogryn like a year ago was absolutely fuckin broken

[random shuttle]

and had 6 talents?

with 80% not working or being ass ;D

[manic wolf]

It was just trash 90% of the time and squad of any special was legitimately threatening unless you were playing Vet lule

[spice cloud]

Ogryn is much stronger now imo

Idk

[dense hollow]

1.0 darktide is when you appreciate getting like a t2 blessing you need on a weapon on a 70% dmg weapon

[random shuttle]

DARKTIDE JUMPSCARE:

[broken bear]

Back then I legit would take less damage from all the damage reductions than a psyker hiding behind me

[calm aurora]

or spend 5 millions to get thrust 4 on your thammer

[manic wolf]

The nostalgia is real

[modest patio]

Back in my day

[fast surge]

Ogryn when the talent trees just got added was the strongest any class has been in dt imo

[spice cloud]

You can still just pull out your ranged with steady grip and pumped up and tank gunners all day

[modest patio]

Back when we were going to get 4 classes in the first year after release

[glad latch]

Plays game crashes. Reboots game crashed while booting. Reboots the game again, logs in, goes to mission board, loads into mission, plays for 2 minutes, kicked due to error 2004

[calm aurora]

first decade

[broken bear]

Dark cache my beloved

[manic wolf]

Wait, but thats the same as now?

[limber cradle]

I miss OG Force Sword and it's literally infinite dodges sometimes tbh

[random shuttle]

I remember the first week when the main goal of the Sweats was to be first to get all Missions on Damnation for the Exterminatus frame.

[modest patio]

Psyker became insane with talent trees added. People who couldn’t tough HI5 started rolling them

[broken bear]

It also keeps me from buying fatshark slop

😹

[calm aurora]

zealot was immortal

[broken bear]

Cuz it breaks the store

[calm aurora]

70% DR

[neat musk]

I still have my Axe with Brutal Momentum 3 saved

[spice cloud]

And in melee u are pretty much immortal as oggy

[fast surge]

Oh yeah smite ep bug

[modest patio]

Yup lol

[broken bear]

HEAVY SWING HEAVY SWING HEAVY SWING

[limber cradle]

God, good times

[manic wolf]

That was in beta pretty much

[modest patio]

Lightning staff hitting more targets and hitting crushers for 2 K crits XD

[glad latch]

It was even worse back then, like sometimes I couldn't even complete a mission without it crashing or kicking me.

[spice cloud]

Its hevy light on repeat for me

[manic wolf]

Yeah, I remember lmao

[random shuttle]

I mean

i played Darktide when it was just a post-it note on a project board in FS in 1999

[manic wolf]

And waiting outside the fuckin shop for any weapon that was remotely usable was a huge problem

[random shuttle]

so you know.

[compact oyster]

the damnation frame used to mean something damnit

[toxic dagger]

oh yeah I remember trying to get all the stamps

[spice cloud]

[toxic dagger]

rocked that frame for a long time

[random shuttle]

yeah it was real flex

[manic wolf]

Funny thing actually, I saw the Malice frame in Auric the other day (He died)

[toxic dagger]

I played my first damnation mission after about 50h or so, it was my first tide game and all. I was so nervous LOL

[limber cradle]

Tbh I kinda miss busted infinite resources director

[random shuttle]

There was only two times when cosmetic earneable where real flexes in the community.

Exterminatus frame at start.

[spice cloud]

Auric exemplar and storm survivor are real flex now

[random shuttle]

And golden Orthus Insignia when Karnaks landed.

[toxic dagger]

I think true survivor is decently flex

[random shuttle]

Yes, True Surv is decent but not the same level as it was in the past.