hivescum-class

[foggy phoenix]

I agree with you. I'm speaking strictly when the scum has tox nades equipped.

[toxic dagger]

They're not experienced or particularly good at running a live service, though they did give away VT2 for free several times so they do know the value of free exposure lol

Maybe it's just the Darktide team

[rose flax]

I mean vermintide 2 constantly goes on sale for a big decrease

[shadow umbra]

If a scum is grabbing grenade boxes when using blackout, they are using the blitz wrong entirely

[foggy phoenix]

Or shamelessly doing it to rush the penance.

[vernal sluice]

I would not say that this is the most charitable read here, I believe that they've only now found Darktide to be in a good enough state to slate a free weekend for it.

[foggy phoenix]

Frankly, as long as they stay out of havoc lobbies, all is well.

[vast plover]

i do it when i know everyone already maxxed on grenades

or a guy is just running ahead and we ain't got no time telling him to walk a mile back and a mile forward just to get it

[tiny dock]

Oh! No question! Big man always gets the nades. I don't use blitz super often, anyway.

[shadow umbra]

I only shamelessly use my grenades to spread tox because I know I'll just get them back after a few kills

[naive wing]

it took darktide 3 years to get into a state where the devs thought the game was good enough for a free weekend.

[vast plover]

the missile is able to take out 2/3 of a boss hp

not bad for a panic button

[foggy phoenix]

What difficulty is this?

[naive wing]

what diff?

[sleek grove]

Does Gloryhunter (toughness on kill) work on Needle gun?

[vast plover]

auric

seen it take out plague ogryn and dh

[naive wing]

no, the needle has to kill them to trigger it, not the dot

[foggy phoenix]

I'm uh... Sure it was just the rocket and nothing else.

[hazy hull]

how long does the stimm supply last?

[sleek grove]

jesus

[hazy hull]

it dont say on the ability

[vast plover]

15 sec, the duration is missing atm

[zealous wing]

Buth

Bruh*

[vast plover]

5 sec if you turn it into a chem mine with the talent

[foggy phoenix]

Bugless releases? Never heard of er'

[drifting heron]

Hey can you go blow up general real quick they're having a shitflinging contest again

[sleek grove]

Technically it's buggish and it lasts a bit more at least the anti corruption

[unreal wigeon]

Anyone < 1 year old in this chat?

[astral canyon]

20s

[brittle sierra]

LET THEM KNOW

[naive wing]

aside from relatively ass blessings, the gun itself is kinda busted

[torpid cloud]

i need a funny hivescum name

[brittle sierra]

Ok and? 😈

[naive wing]

i just mag dump it into a horde and i usually have my custom stim back instantly

MK2 is specifically the nutty one

[vast plover]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-bane-batman-gif-14830251

[torpid cloud]

i assume with the stim cd on kill the ranged variant of ability cd reduction on it would be best

[bronze glade]

That's the one that spreads DOT?

[brittle sierra]

Get on the wall 🧱

Time to meet God

[naive wing]

yeah

[twilit smelt]

Good point lol

[vast plover]

hivescum's dodge distance do be crazy though, feels like a ninja

[naive wing]

i did not spec my drug into cd reduction cuz dependancy basically gives my rampage back hella quick. needle gun gives back my stim hella quick.

[hybrid tulip]

Im surprised i havent run into any joker cosplaus

[vast plover]

you just don't kill anything dodging

[torpid cloud]

imagine if hivescum players realized just how broken their dodge is

[torpid cloud]

neat, though i dopnt intend on leaning into chems that much

i mean needle

mb

[naive wing]

also i like that toughness and health curios are kinda useless on scum cuz theyre so squishy, ive put it all into stam recovery, revive speed and sprint efficiency to keep my 20% dmg reduc up at all times

[vast plover]

on the shielded generals if you do circles its very satisfying

[naive wing]

fair

[vast plover]

hivescum reliably backstabs with how much they dance around enemies

[bronze glade]

Nah they're still important

[tiny dock]

I've never been much of a DoT enjoyer. I like the things I do to do damage when I do the things.

[trim wind]

toughness will never not be important, it's a base mechanic

[vast plover]

the story is it depends

my psyker has 21%+5%x3 just cuz being blown up like tissue paper by bombers over and over got me fuming

[knotty grotto]

this high key how leveling this class has felt

[dim moth]

okay but hypothetically....18% attack speed

[knotty grotto]

for every floor inspector game theres another where drugs helps me delete a rager horde

[low harbor]

1 stam is +6%

it's ok

But

3 stam curios not worth

[woeful hill]

It's funny though

Isn't zealots max attack speed like 75%?

[naive wing]

riight but are you able to give your scum enough toughness to tank a hit that would otherwise flatten you? the only thing that kinda takes me out is the stray crusher overhead or bad slide push on a bomber. otherwise i have enough dmg reduc that nothing else really touches me

[woeful hill]

FF, Marty, fury, the push attack buff

[vast plover]

i was like "no we solving this problem" and maxxed out masteries to all the weapons

[tender marten]

three stam for just 18% AS isn't really worth. But three stam does have its own value.

[woeful hill]

Not on scum...

[low harbor]

Nah
Martyr max 30%
FotF 20%
+10%
Push atk +10%

[woeful hill]

Their stamina eco is insane

[low harbor]

70%

[woeful hill]

Ahhh

Scum gets to 50%?

[vast plover]

also switched to Infantry Autogun cuz in No Man's Land it was like "why am I bringing dual pistols to space WW1"

[woeful hill]

I fully guessed

I have no idea

[low harbor]

Hvs can get ~50%

But with way higher damage than zealot

[woeful hill]

Fair

[vast plover]

Fighting Verdun with no rifle smh

[slow swan]

How do we feel about bone saw vs knives? I like both but I can’t decide what I wannn build around

[tender marten]

20 from stims, 20 from rampage, w/e amount from swift endurance, 10% from adrenaline

is that all?

[tepid ibex]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[tepid ibex]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[naive wing]

i really am not a fan of the bonesaw, i try to like it but i wish there was a more horde-clear ish mark. its knives all the way for me

[knotty grotto]

bathwater cartel 4 lyf

[vast plover]

btw disparado + infantry autogun is tier dps gameloop

[dapper ledge]

hmm, anyone know which needle pistol mark is better?

The inspect isn't super informative for it

[naive wing]

MK2, makes the blue needle spread dot

[dapper ledge]

Is it better to use the explosive attribute?

ahh ok

perfect thanks

[vast plover]

the way it cleaves is just confusing

[loud herald]

hey all

hope we're all doin well

[loud herald]

welcome back friend

[naive wing]

every hit feels like it drags across every body it touches and scum cant afford to be slow

[dapper ledge]

I like that dual-hit mechanic they introduced with the new weapons

[vast plover]

yeah it's not a straight line, it's like a log-dip

[dapper ledge]

stimms are op af also. I feel like everyone complaining about scum aren't spamming their stimms

[jovial tiger]

Because the colt was used in WW1

[tepid ibex]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[jovial tiger]

[naive wing]

i think that all the scum unique weapons were built very well in the sense that while the weapons arent anywhere near as flashy as plasma guns and thunderhammers. they all are super unique in their versatility, aside from dual autopistols, but the stub guns having trickshot, the crowbar switching marks on the fly, the bonesaw having both chem and brittleness, the shivs having budget throwing knives

[dapper ledge]

sapper would switch to a pickaxe mode that KOs armor, but still one hit

Then it would reset

but there are similarities for sure

[tender marten]

Love shiv throwing. Not rare for me to go an entire mission without ever taking my actual guns out lmao

[knotty grotto]

for the bonesaw it's generally better to use chem on monstrosities right? save brittleness for maulers and crushers?

[random shuttle]

This is my favorite thing about Scum

Scum weapons are all tricky dicky

no boring shit

all wacky af

[manic wolf]

Scummer's unique weapons arent really the best in the game in any capacity (Other than Needle Gun), but they are easily some of the most fun

[dapper ledge]

I feel like there may be an argument for the dual auto-pistols lol

[random shuttle]

they are the most basic, aye

but the fact they are dual wield gives them some wacky points 😄

[dapper ledge]

well I mean as being very very strong.

[random shuttle]

TBH I don't much care about weapon strength

[fast surge]

Chem is better for pretty much everything if you are alone, brittleness will only help if your team is hitting them too

[manic wolf]

They're good, but there are a lot better choices if all you care about is DPS

[novel quest]

all of the unique scum guns are strong

[random shuttle]

Oggy Shield is Strong and Good but mind-bogglingly boring to play with

[tepid ibex]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[manic wolf]

Yeah, that^ a lot of the S+ Tier weapons are a fuckin snoozefest

[dapper ledge]

yea, you may actually be right. I haven't messed with it in a long time. 😅

[obsidian crown]

Just curious. What level is your HS

[manic wolf]

30

[random shuttle]

I will always prefer to play with A-B tier weapon that is just fuuuun fun fun fun fun

[obsidian crown]

Just 30?

[manic wolf]

Idk true level, not got mods running atm

Waiting for everything to be updooted

[tepid ibex]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[random shuttle]

That is why Rumbler is the best. 😏 It's fun and wacky!

[obsidian crown]

They’re mostly updated now

[manic wolf]

I'll check them later, boutta cook dinner

[zenith fern]

I just cant get over the dreg gunner look

the face tattoo and war paint makes it more accurate

[fringe marten]

i love my stims

[torpid cloud]

Infantry autogun has a really fast reload Wth

[vale garden]

Ugh, I was wondering why my heavy strike kills while stimmed was so slow. Ive been running hyper critical and it mustn't count

[tepid ibex]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[high gull]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-cruise-shades-cool-smug-cool-shades-gif-18677159

[abstract inlet]

for stimm supply, should I go low vis to spam booby trap?

[vale garden]

The 2nd mk shivs go so hard in hordes

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw feels kinda weak compared to shivs guh

[high gull]

You don't need low vis

I'm rocking 100% and can get my shit back near instantly if I tox a horde

[manic wolf]

Bonesaw is too slow for me to want to even play

[high gull]

needler/chem bomb

Ez

[abstract inlet]

NOT MY QUESTION

[random shuttle]

Yet I see them Scummies doing H40 using Bonesaw a lot

[manic wolf]

Weapon needs some attack speed to feel fluid to play

[vale garden]

Brittleness is very useful

[high gull]

I don't care, you're getting my opinion anyway

[abstract inlet]

I meant do I go for booby trap spam or full stimm package?

[high gull]

Why not both?

[torpid cloud]

honestly, leveling the scum ihas been rather tough

[tepid ibex]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[upbeat lynx]

bone saw with that hit mass perk feels so much better

[high gull]

You literally can do both

[upbeat lynx]

but yeah its kinda slow

[random shuttle]

I fully understand too why Regi believes chem warrior will be default h40 scum since all those goofy modifiers do not reduce DOTs killing power.

[zealous ravine]

idk its probably not that lacking but shivs do feel just better rn

[abstract inlet]

with practiced deployment, I'd get low vis stimm supply more rapidly, thus more bombs

[random shuttle]

Don't get me wrong

[high gull]

You could also just get sample

[random shuttle]

I think shivs are grrreat

Bonesaw has a weird balancing act

[low harbor]

those goofy DRs should tho
it's literally half the reason psyker is ridiculous and they just refuse to acknowledge that

[high gull]

This literally gives you your shit back near instant

Just run high visc

[random shuttle]

because it's a dot weapon they made it a bit slow and have horrible baseline cleave

[high gull]

Get a needler and chem nades

You now have a short fuze bomb

That also applies alot of buffs

[low harbor]

it's not near instant

[zealous ravine]

they have to acknowledge havoc needs to actually not be abysmal to get into already

[high gull]

It literally is tho...

[low harbor]

also this talent works best when u have a full 30 pt stim

[random shuttle]

Havocs being abysmal is kind of the point XD

[zealous ravine]

not really

[low harbor]

it's not tho

[high gull]

I've tossed a chem bomb into a horde and been able to toss my shit down 3 times

[zealous ravine]

the point is the difficulty not the derank stuff

[abstract inlet]

so in your opinion the cooldown is short enough that it doesn't matter

[high gull]

If you're in a dense packed horde

It is near instant

Get the hell off malice

[abstract inlet]

ok, good to know

[low harbor]

buddy I am in auric

u need to waste chem nades to get them to be "instant"

[manic wolf]

Yesnt, some of the modifiers (Headcrabs) actively punish you for playing well which is not ideal. There are some great effects on Havoc modifers, but some of them are just shit

[glacial gyro]

I hope I get to bond with Bully over our love of trains at some point

[high gull]

Tweaking truly

[novel quest]

Vraks IAG is the GOAT. I couldn't believe it when I heard someone on youtube say it's mid

[zealous ravine]

i dont even care how fricked havocs gameplay is i just wanna actually be allowed to stay at rank 40 for once

[low harbor]

what

[nocturne anvil]

what blessing aside from bromentum does rashad want

[high gull]

Even with a needler I can get my full visc stimm from empty to full in less than like 5 seconds.

[low harbor]

headtaker

[lone otter]

I'm sure it's been whined about relentlessly but is it intended for Stimm Crates not to grant stacks of dependency?

[bronze glade]

Head taker

[nocturne anvil]

I actually never use this thing

[high gull]

Play better my gamer

[nocturne anvil]

thanks

[bronze glade]

Probably not but knowing fatshart who knows lol

[high gull]

If you're constantly flushed with mobs, you can cut that cooldown so fucking fast

[broken bear]

“Buddy”

[tepid cosmos]

congrats for finding the door of the psykanium I know that took a lot of courage /j

oh wrong message oops

[low harbor]

what did I do to u again??

[high gull]

I've literally gotten my stimm back before it even wore off

Multiple times brother

[zealous ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/rabbit-bunny-bnuuy-gas-leak-meme-gif-8252508646824824494

[tepid cosmos]

Don’t take jokes so literally lol

[bronze glade]

Why are we bullying path

[broken bear]

Do yknow if the Cdr of stimms applies when actively in desperado

[low harbor]

mb args was tweaking saying 5~8s is instant

[rotund agate]

you know what? I feel like this needs to be said: I wish there was a way to at least slightly increase movement speed for melee builds without needing the 10% buff from the custom stimm's speed path...

[bronze glade]

Pretty sure they don't

[abstract inlet]

I love chem dependency... on rampage

[bronze glade]

You need to pop it afterwards

[high gull]

It doesn't as far as I'm aware

[abstract inlet]

no?

[high gull]

The cooldown for desp doesn't begin til it ends

[oak bramble]

class is 0/10 the mastery shivs dont look like sugar canes

[broken bear]

Kk was just making sure I wasn’t missing something

[rose flax]

What is the difference between the needle pistol marks?

[wind egret]

Do people think Stimm Supply and Chem Dependancy should be balanced around consuming the stim, or that Stimm Supply should instead copy your unique stim?

[low harbor]

desperado and rampage can't tick CD while they're active

[oak bramble]

also its funny when you remove the dead body limit

[high gull]

One applies a single stack of toxin aoe when the inital target you shot dies

And the other just staggers shit when it dies

Atleast from my experience

[bronze glade]

When using the special mode

[rose flax]

The problem with not consuming it, is this talent

[high gull]

Yes when using the special mode

[wind egret]

I may be mistaken, but that aoe toxin mark also seems to randomly apply less 1-2 less toxin per shot, so I run the stagger MK.

[high gull]

@tepid cosmos

From my experience it only applies a single instance of toxin

But if you like...

Shoot the floor and apply toxin that way

Then those entities count as their own explosions

Atleast from my experience

Any entity that gets tox applies via the mob that explodes does not explode upon death

Only mobs initally hit by the needler

[low harbor]

should be consumed, but should also contribute stack of dependency upon consumption via stim crate
I also think dependency needs tweaks

[toxic dagger]

I'm more of a Fatshark shill than most people but I know what their strengths and their weaknesses are. Charitable or not isn't really part of my evaluation, I think

[tepid cosmos]

I’ll be real I haven’t used the versions of the needle pistols that made it to live as much as I’d like. But I’m sure aoe dots should only be 1 dot applied, you get more dots for crits

[high gull]

I'm still testing if it's more effective to just shoot the floor under a horde of pox walkers

Or just shoot the pox walkers themselves

[oak bramble]

whats your favorite character voice for the hiver?

[high gull]

Anarchist 100%

[fringe marten]

fem anarchist

[wind egret]

What do you think about CD being redundant/less useful with stimm supply then? In contrast to every other ability in the game, does it not feel a bit clunky? That the main attraction from your keystone would not provide it's main benefit?

[low harbor]

best is prob mk VI's explosion on death

[zealous ravine]

yeah idk tbh bonesaw defo feels lacking now that im trying shiv again

[bronze glade]

The explosion doesn't do shit for damage tho 😭

[high gull]

Ok so I tested my theory out

Aaaand

If you shoot the floor

[lean perch]

I think there was probably an interaction with stim crates giving insane cooldown with Chem dependency on top of a cooldown stim. Basically let you place stim crates infinitely with no cooldown in between, I think there’s a shorts video on Cole’s channel

[high gull]

Mobs don't tox explode

[bronze glade]

Idk shiv feels like worse knife

[limber cradle]

I love bounty hunter tbh, I really enjoy the earned arrogance to em.

[bronze glade]

Bonesaw has been quite good in my testing

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw just feels a little low dmg for how big it is

[high gull]

Something I do notice is, crits do effect how much a stack of toxin applies.

[tepid cosmos]

I’m kind of sad they didn’t go with lunatic as the name for that personality cause as I later learned through dialogue with the other hive scum they escaped a prison for the criminally insane after the outbreak happened

[high gull]

So a crit build needler maybe?

[low harbor]

the weird thing is that stim crate is significantly more dependent on stim's recharge than the ability's CD itself, and both other ults can't tick CD while active (and could just run 15 pt CD rate stim to cover for their downtime)

as a result, even if stim crate was giving u dependency stacks it wouldn't actually get to spread ur stim as much as just being the trap bomb

[high gull]

New lore

[limber cradle]

The jonkler

[bronze glade]

The cleave and DOT combo is pretty legit

[high gull]

Ok I'm wrong again?

Crits dont' change toxin dmg?

But that's so weird...

[static elbow]

it appears the attack speed tree for the stimm lab also provides rate of fire increase; normally these are two different stats, right?

[low harbor]

also there're like maybe 2~3 melee weapons that work well with chemist branch talents (bonesaw, shivs, combat blade maybe)

[high gull]

I was doing 57 a tick then 70

Then it went to 49

Then back to 57?

The hell am I missing?

[obsidian crown]

Shivs are very good for a rampage build tbh

[zealous ravine]

shivs just go so crazy

[manic wolf]

Mostly a generic melee swing speed/RoF buff

[bronze glade]

Feels like that's what crowbar and shiv are designed for.

[obsidian crown]

That crit tox node and shivs with attack speed node? Goes crazy

[bronze glade]

Idk if I'll take shiv over knife on a rampage build though

[high gull]

It's amazing

[zealous ravine]

idk i dont even like combat blade

[high gull]

You become a fucking blender

[manic wolf]

Still undecided on if Flesh Tearer is worth dropping Uncanny for, Riposte is non-negotiable because of tox on crits skill, but yeah

[near mauve]

ill take shive simply because its new and ive played knife 1 million times

[low harbor]

riposte is not required

[median river]

First target or mobility dump on bonesaw?

[low harbor]

cuz talent alrdy covers that

[zealous ravine]

mob

[broken bear]

I just want both shivs to count as separate weapons 😼

[bronze glade]

Never dump first target

[low harbor]

don't dump first target ever

[manic wolf]

Doubling up = more DoTs, even more so with FT

[low harbor]

uncanny makes bleed much better

[vernal sluice]

Fair enough

[lean perch]

If knife got the uncanny nerf that it should have I think shivs would be better just for the cleave and horde clear alone

[high gull]

@tepid cosmos Do you have any idea if this affects toxin stacks?

[low harbor]

yesterday

[wind egret]

I believe this to be a consequence of the feedback received prior to launch. Everything from the wording of the stimm supply itself and it's modifiers, down to the way chemical dependency is applied.
Stimm supply was never designed to consume your stim... It's a shame because the stimm supply was what I was most hyped for.

[low harbor]

it's global dmg

[manic wolf]

Yeah, thats why im stuck on the decision, because FT/Riposte will be better into bosses, but Uncanny/Riposte is way better into armour. Though im not struggling to kill them with the latter so it might just be overkill

[limber cradle]

You lot taking pick your targets on desperado?

[low harbor]

just do uncanny flesh

[tepid cosmos]

nah this just gives you base damage for each enemy up to 3 that has one stack on them

[manic wolf]

I'm not gonna switch the ones ive got to that, but will make a new pair of shivs for testing purposes

[tepid cosmos]

well actually

maybe

[high gull]

So it's useless ona needler?

[vernal sluice]

Yeah ik, dozens of my steam and discord friends are tiding as well

[tepid cosmos]

should be easy to test

[low harbor]

it's global dmg so will affect chemtox' dmg

[vernal sluice]

And their friends

[tepid cosmos]

I’m in bed rn

[zealous ravine]

wake up

[lean perch]

Just take crit on dodge talent to replace riposte and use uncanny

[high gull]

It's 1pm get your lazy ass up

[low harbor]

not useless, I just told u it's global dmg

[near mauve]

imma be real the free to play thing wont be keeping no players
The new player experience is absymal
you have to be into 40k or first person slasher type games or similar stuff to stick with how absymal it feels to get into the game
i know cause i gifted the game to like 5 people and they all dropped it early lmao

[bronze glade]

I don't think shivs are better at either of those lol

[high gull]

I just wanted to make sure daaaaaang

[low harbor]

kuli's guide is right there

and u can test in game easily too

[high gull]

I don't know who kuli is

[manic wolf]

I have that already, but Chem DoT is as good as it's gonna be out the gate, so more procs more betterer

[high gull]

And I've never read a darktide guide

Like ever

[tepid cosmos]

You ever not being negative

[zealous ravine]

ermm actually shivs are twice as good as knife theres 2 of them

[near mauve]

wot da hyll im very positive like 99% of the time

im just being real!

ive been just praising hive scum

[charred oyster]

Anyone know a good cc weapon or anything, I know about the chem nades but like ammo you can run out so idk hive scum feels bad to play rn

[near mauve]

and generally love the game

[tepid cosmos]

Kuli is a saint who makes testing things in this game 50x easier im pretty sure he is an ai tbh

[low harbor]

the new player experience is ok assuming they start on z/og

[near mauve]

ZOG

[wind egret]

I wish shivs multi-hit so you could get 2 stacks of chem toxin on crit.

[high gull]

@low harbor So I tested it, and no.

[floral bronze]

idk if this is any good, but double-barrel shotty with both reload blessings, the reload talent, and desperado with the power stim is hella fun

[near mauve]

oh yeah tbh i forgot arbi/ogryn are pretty nice to level on

[high gull]

It doesn't, atleast from my testing

I'm still doing 57 tox per tick

[bronze glade]

No they're not

So boring

[high gull]

Even when I have 3 targets toxed

[near mauve]

exactly

easy to play and get a feel for things

if you're new u want shit to feel good from the get go

[bronze glade]

Hardest part of leveling then is trying not to fall asleep

[wind egret]

I think reload speed caps out, I couldn't feel the double barrel blessing.

[low harbor]

lemme check now

[charred oyster]

Any help?

[bronze glade]

Ah yeah for new players

[tepid cosmos]

Needler is being very strange with a lot of stuff rn cause a lot of things you would want to work with it are set to exclude dots rn

[floral bronze]

ohoh!

[near mauve]

keyword is new players
im just salty my funny friends didnt stick with this game cause its fun asf

[floral bronze]

so the talent and speedload are enough?

[tepid cosmos]

should this change idk it might make the needler stupid good

[bronze glade]

Your question doesn't make sense

[low harbor]

do u want melee spec

[loud herald]

hey gamers, quick question, any suggestions on perks on shivs for a shiv focused build?

[bronze glade]

Time to make new friends

[wind egret]

Yeah that should get you to 80% it feels pretty rad.

[near mauve]

i did

[charred oyster]

That be nice yes, I just don't know what to take tho

[ashen cape]

almost enything that has "melee" in its description

[hushed oracle]

How does it compare to Frag Bombs?

[calm aurora]

Either carapace unyielding or flak maniac no?

[high gull]

@low harbor

[loud herald]

i'd think so

[near mauve]

frags are better but u get 1 frag and u get 2 bazookas

[calm aurora]

I would try both before deciding

[lean perch]

Shivs also gets funny tox throwing knives even though people forget to use them half the time. If you’re used to zealot knives they fill the same quickdraw specialist killer role and and can actually deal with armor with dots

[near mauve]

i love the tox knives on the shivs

[night nymph]

Definitely happened to me a few times, like they ignored a shove or killed me outside their radius. Been happening since the update

[near mauve]

easy melting

[high gull]

I've attempted multiple times and the result is the same, I don't believe tox DoT is affected by the global dmg buff

Which sucks ass man

[loud herald]

also, is 76% on every stat considered a god roll now for weapons? or am I stoopid

[lean perch]

Genuinely kinda busted, can zealot please get bleed throwing knives

[high gull]

"Hey buddy, wanna buy some chems"

[vernal sluice]

Nightmare latrine line

[dusty hound]

80% on every stat bar one is typically considered the god roll

As that's usually the "best" roll you can get

One stat will suffer at 60 or so, but so long as it's whichever stat is the dump one for the weapon, it'll be fine

[bronze glade]

Cool but wasn't taking about that

[loud herald]

that's what I thought

[low harbor]

ok I just checked it applies correctly to chemtox DOT

[spark gyro]

Don't say that, because I got rid of auto pistols with 76% on everything.

[loud herald]

idk if it is or not

just the builds in pins have every stat at 76

for weapons

[dusty hound]

A 76 on everything isn't bad or anything, it's just not the "best"

[loud herald]

ya

[drifting heron]

That's just being lazy

[slow swan]

Struggling with the needle gun, any tips?

[loud herald]

[near mauve]

nah i want tknives to 1 shot properly

[high gull]

In lamen's terms?

[near mauve]

that's about it

[calm aurora]

You mean pinning and blaze?

[near mauve]

keep em distinct i say

[ashen cape]

pls tell me mobility is the dump stat for shivs and dual uzis

[high gull]

Nah nah nah

The talent

Tox mania

[bronze glade]

Mob

[near mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/the-undertaker-aj-styles-wwe-boneyard-match-wrestle-mania36-gif-16943984

same gif

[low harbor]

the talent "Toxin Mania" correctly applies global dmg buff, which makes chemtox DOT dmg higher

[high gull]

Switch to blue and try it

[lean perch]

They usually do if you take zealots one ranged damage talent, but that’s just a waste of a point when I can just throw more knives

[high gull]

Yeah it's still 57 for me

Even if I shoot diff mobs

Maybe on yellow you get the buff

But when you switch to the blue special

[spark gyro]

Has anyone tried a bleed/toxin build with shivs and Needler?

[high gull]

It doesn't apply the bonus dmg

[low harbor]

it works correctly

[high gull]

Okay I see where I'm going wrong.

Disregard.

[novel quest]

genuinely just slam fire. it takes 3 shots to kill a crusher with its DoT and if you switch fire modes, you can get it to clear hordes too

[high gull]

It applies it to the inital target shot

But not if the tox spreads

Okaaaay

Okaaay

I get it now

So if the buff is up and your target dies, the spreading tox dmg doesn't recieve the global 15% buff

[honest shale]

Does Stimm supply still not trigger dependency?

[keen mulch]

It does not. Stim cooldown also only starts when stim effect ends, so that time needs to be factored in for the penance. The refresh window is tight if you put too much in your stim.

[dim moth]

depending on how aggressively you play anything under 50 seconds should be fine

[honest shale]

They absolutely cooked.

[dim moth]

for keeping dependency at 4 stacks

[novel quest]

I can't wait for this class to get its rebalances so that 80% of the playerbase can hop off and I can have fun with hive scum instead of worrying about horrible players using the glass cannon and it's a 4 stack

[keen mulch]

Honestly better off sticking to 3.

Increasing to 4 means to have a longer time at the beginning where you arent maxed out, and an even tighter window of error

[fluid yarrow]

Yeah I am excited for the novelty to wear off

So we can have some diverse squads

[novel quest]

for sure

[fluid yarrow]

Make the 4 stacks feel special again

[mighty belfry]

And the benefits are really marginal for one stack.

[novel quest]

I really want people to explore team comps with scum

like have we tried smyker and scum together yet

[keen mulch]

Yeah that 4th stack really isn't worth the headache

[fluid yarrow]

Vet Scum and Zealot
Anchor Ogryn

[mighty belfry]

I hate it.

[fluid yarrow]

That’s my bet for a fun team

[dim moth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054469893094912040/1219795235488661644/RDT_20240317_2206286612888269186543251.gif

[mighty belfry]

This class is much like zealot where it needs the aggression for its bonuses

[high gull]

I've only gotten bubble psyker

[fluid yarrow]

It’s like playing Martyr without any of the martyrs bonuses lol

[mighty belfry]

Then again I played with a smyker

[honest shale]

I'll be going back to Psyker after I'm done spending the last of my Ducats on Hive Scum. A much more consistent glass cannon play.

[dim moth]

scum has higher damage than martyr zealot

[keen mulch]

Only problem is that the synergy is fucked, so that aggression is rarely rewarded

[fluid yarrow]

I meant survivability bonuses

Their damage is unquestionable

[mighty belfry]

You know what's funny.

[honest shale]

The depth of the usable talents and the lack of stackable perks other than chem toxin is egregious.

[mighty belfry]

If you have good Stam management, Scum doesn't have to be that squishy.

They do have one good DR talent going for them.

[ripe seal]

They don’t get any blessings for survivability with toughness regen, the only ones with anything like that are the guns

[novel quest]

bubble psyker is useful tho, all that protection from gunners on the class that gets de-atomized by firing squads

[zenith fern]

My extended dodges keeps making me fly so many times, shit so funny

[fluid yarrow]

I’m saying they don’t get a benefit from being squishy like martyr does

[keen mulch]

Here's a question though: why is the % melee attack speed per stamina node on the ranged tree?

[loud herald]

this is a really stupid basic question but do auras stack in any capacity? like if you have two hive scum with ruffian does that stack at all or is it wasted?

[ripe seal]

I think tactical axe is their only really good stagger option with its special attack being better than the knife and I guess heavy sword

I’m pretty sure same auras never stack

[mighty belfry]

To give the range tree some melee potential for survivability

[loud herald]

I thought as much

[vernal sluice]

I've tried qing up with a bubble psyker build to help any aspiring scummers out a litte but I was SOL so far, just keep getting paired by other longtime players instead

[novel quest]

ngl I have been going heavily off-meta with this class. not as a "oh I've got a superiority complex thing" but more as a "yep this meta is going to collapse into a neutron star very, very soon"

[slow swan]

Blue for hordes yellow for single target?

[honest shale]

Dude Fatshark cooked on this HivesCum talent tree didn't they?

[keen mulch]

I'm hearing that even the Chem toxin synergy isn't quite as it should be. Something about kills not proccing cd or something.

[novel quest]

ye

mixed hordes you may want to just melee through

but generally that's the schmoove

[trim wind]

there is no meta yet, it's been 2 days

[winged bay]

@dapper kraken ok

[honest shale]

That explains so fucking much. This class man.

[coarse comet]

guys this crowbar got me feeling like Gordon Freeman

[fluid yarrow]

Shouldn’t it be near the center then so the melee tree can easily link to it

If it’s a melee perk but also to help range have a leg up

[novel quest]

I'm gonna master crowbar today and see what all the fuss is about. I couldn't make it work when I was starting out but see so many people who are like "this melee is GOATED!!!!"

[dim moth]

it's at the top of the left tree what more do you want from it

[novel quest]

I've been a Bone Saw enjoyer myself

[fluid yarrow]

Idk I’m going off what I see in the chat

I don’t read my fucking perks

I copy someone’s build til I have fun

[keen mulch]

Just to be clear, the blue is rending. Yellow is toxin.

Yellow deals a damage over time effect.

Blue reduces enemy armor.

Use blue on carapace and flak.

[fluid yarrow]

Didn’t know he had a melee speed perk

[honest shale]

Not a fan. It needs waaaaaaay too much investment to the detriment of the class's need for ranged.

[coarse comet]

this the Stim pistol?

[dim moth]

the classes "need" for ranged

lol

lmao even

[keen mulch]

Bone saw

[dim moth]

you'll be catching my ass dodging towards gunlines at mach 5

[mighty belfry]

This class don't need ranged

[novel quest]

yeah I'm honestly thinking Bone Saw and Combat Axe are the way

[obsidian crown]

Who’s gonna tell him? Bro’s been raging all day

[fluid yarrow]

I like it I don’t really get the hate it’s simply

Flak and below blunt
Swap for carapace/monster

A simple life

[honest shale]

Bone Saw with mass ignore and finesse for cleave <3

[mighty belfry]

Straight up, you can just dance around a battlefield with this class.

[dim moth]

I use needle pistol expressly because I'm so goddamn mobile everywhere on the map is in my melee range

so I just use that to help with crushers

[novel quest]

it’s super good with mass ignore and the strength bonus on chaining hits

[coarse comet]

"Fuck ranged combat. I'm rushing you down with a crowbar"

[paper quiver]

The Flubbergusters

[worn canopy]

why crowbar dump defence?

[rare idol]

this honestly feels very fun https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=a083c287-29f2-4271-89fd-1c8a0dda61bd

[keen mulch]

Because crowbar for hitting, not blocking

[mighty belfry]

This class needs no stamina management for the most part.

[novel quest]

the needler is a "one size fits all" solution for if you're running melee and cba to spec into ranged, it's great in that regard

[honest shale]

Yes. I'm glad you found a melee build that is the least-worse for your team composition. Have fun with it.

[bronze glade]

I dumped mobility

[rare idol]

basically perma rampage thanks to stim spam

[amber sundial]

The push cost difference is only .4 stamina

[dim moth]

oh my team loves me

[amber sundial]

also just sprint slide and you out regen the cost of sprinting

[dim moth]

they get my stimm boosts from spamming stimm supply

[rare idol]

also the rending stacking means bone saw shreds

[worn canopy]

i have dumped mobility crowbar and im broke after upgrading so many weapons

[novel quest]

literally same

[rare idol]

you can open brittle on cara stuff then swap to tox for extra good

[novel quest]

my Arbitrator is working OT to get resources for all these new toys

[ripe seal]

Doesn’t every weapon dump mobility/defense? that feels like a weird question to ask

[fluid yarrow]

Don’t it makes your push attacks cost more dump mobility

Don’t listen to the masses

[amber sundial]

It has both

[novel quest]

p much

especially on scum

[dim moth]

they're the common dump stats yeah

[novel quest]

but crowbar defense is best to dump

[ripe seal]

Mobility is always worth more since dodge good and sprint is useful

[bronze glade]

Crowbar push attack is pretty important

[dim moth]

needle pistol dumps anything but ammo

[mighty belfry]

Ain't this literally a good thing to have a class that doesn't really use ammo so it goes to the other party members that might need it more?

[nocturne anvil]

I find it funny that the ranged damage based on distance applies to the chem damage and retroactively applies as you get closer

[steep goblet]

Anyone wana help me with the alchemist penance? It’ll only take roughly 33 minutes to unlock it

[bronze glade]

So I'd rather dump mobility

[honest shale]

Just avoid the melee garbage and grab desperado and pickpocket for infinite ammo

[mighty belfry]

That's one thing I notice particularly with good hive scum. They tend not to need ammo at all lol

[obsidian crown]

Even the ranged build for scum doesn’t need ammo

[keen mulch]

Working perfectly as God intended

[rose flax]

Wait, whoa, that's cool

[dim moth]

does it apply to chem damage? or does it apply while your gun is out

[amber sundial]

I love when my needler has 35 direct dmg but 2 different damage stats lol

[mighty belfry]

Melee "garbage"

I'm sorry are we talking about the same class here???

[ripe seal]

Reminds me of rockets in TF2, damage ramp up is based on where you are when the rocket lands, not where it fires, so you can rocket jump onto someone, fire a rocket at them, land before it hits and gets the damage of you firing it point blank

[novel quest]

does one of the stats dictate how much toxin damage ya get?

[amber sundial]

75% power is garbage?

[rare idol]

so ive learned to basically never hold run with scum 😂 and have a sprint eff gun

[livid raven]

no

[amber sundial]

Nope

[bronze glade]

Bro thinks he's playing ball of duty

[nocturne anvil]

Oh shit, it's while the gun is out

[amber sundial]

Only the mark does (technically)

[dim moth]

I've been investing heavily into melee dots and pure crit chance

[novel quest]

wow you do NOT really need to level the needler

[gritty elk]

Claw sword with skullcrusher and shred good on melee scum?

[mighty belfry]

This class fuckin MOGS at melee. It is NUTS how good it is.

[dim moth]

82.5% crit chance on tree and just letting toxin/flesh tearer kill everything

[rare idol]

eh

[honest shale]

75% more garbage is 175% garbage.

[rare idol]

its good but its not that good

[amber sundial]

Alright yea it’s just bait

https://tenor.com/view/ragebait-rage-bait-lol-lmao-gif-3554026694133497645

[dim moth]

okay just asking...do you know what Power does?

[novel quest]

???

[dim moth]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-bait-baiting-bass-fishing-gif-2140444873906627680

[gritty elk]

Tooltip Wording mistake?

[mighty belfry]

Nah there's no way this is really the consensus of this class rn

[slow swan]

I’m referring to the needle gun

[rare idol]

also im kinda into untouchable. sprinting for a sec to dump aggro and then 🦴 everything

[rare idol]

arbeetus stagger spam and boss deletion real good. og melee still very very good. id put scum up there but the despacito build definitely deletes hordes faster

[fallen arrow]

I just wanna smash things with a crowbar I hope future updates gives them a wrench

[amber sundial]

I didn’t really notice threat reduction, til a reaper I ran up to decided to start shooting my teammate 30m away while I was in it’s face

[mighty belfry]

Arbitrator is not that good at bossing. You can straight up solo bosses with complete impunity on this class if you know what you're doing.

[rare idol]

you can bolter mag dump bosses very fast on arby

[worn canopy]

take a swing and bash like benefit

[honest shale]

You mean like that 10-500 thing you do to weapons for stats? So getting more stats on a shit weapon makes it less shit. Got it.

[rare idol]

also you can solo bosses on pretty much every class without really taking damage, thats table stakes. the important thing is how fast

[dim moth]

not at all

[rose flax]

Does slippery costumer work?

[dim moth]

Power is an increase to your damage, stagger, and cleave on a weapon

It is a damage boost

THat makes you cleave more

And stagger things easier

[mighty belfry]

Very fast with hive and safely because the extra dodges give you way more leverage to fight them safely.

[amber sundial]

You just count as dodging while sliding

it’s not true immunity

[worn canopy]

you means strenght?

[honest shale]

Yes it depends on the stats of the weapon and where the points dump.

[worn canopy]

the term is replaced Strength

[amber sundial]

Power and strength are the same

[rose flax]

I know, but a lot of talents are bugged so i was curious

[mighty belfry]

And you don't even need a bullet to do it either.

[worn canopy]

old player know is power, but new people see is strength

[dim moth]

fuck right it's called power in vermintide

[mighty belfry]

And Rampage also staggers bosses.

[dim moth]

eugharharha

[ripe seal]

Strength is really our only source of extra impact, I’m feeling the lack of that

[mighty belfry]

It's literally Aggro Shout.

[amber sundial]

Wait it does?

Didn’t know that about bellow

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

[rose flax]

It used to be called power too in darktide(actually some talents do stil) but now it's called strength for some reason

[rare idol]

ok but again, bolter classes can delete pretty much all bosses instantly when built right

[mighty belfry]

Yes. But that requires a bolter which is its own issue for obvious reasons.

[worn canopy]

it used to be super good on zealot pre nerf Fotf

[rose flax]

hive has bolter

[amber sundial]

Silly ranged armor class reduction

[worn canopy]

bistol*

[dim moth]

bolt pistol

[rare idol]

bolt pistol

[rose flax]

Huh?

[mighty belfry]

Bolt pistol

[rare idol]

bistol good dont get me wrong but bolter is not bistol

[rose flax]

There's another?

[mighty belfry]

They don't have bolter.

[amber sundial]

Two different weapons

[worn canopy]

hive don't have bolter

[amber sundial]

Bolter and bolt pistol

[bronze glade]

Bolter is the full sized bolt gun

Which HIV doesn't get

[rare idol]

im sad we dont get a shiv + stub weapon

[ripe seal]

I just now started to enjoy the boltgun now that I started to mess with the new variant on it, still needs that swap speed though

[rare idol]

i like hive for boss dueling and i built mine to deal with cara and bosses which makes me happy

[rose flax]

Yeah, we really need a gun and sword weapon lol

[tender marten]

Shivs are close enough.

[rare idol]

i do like the shiv needle

[ripe seal]

That would be a way to make the single pistol work, I don’t see that working as well solo

[rose flax]

rapier with it's rapier pistol for example

[rare idol]

also i love the needler

slow but very deadly

[bronze glade]

It's amazing. Fire and forget

[rare idol]

yep

[rose flax]

They already did that in vermintide, you shoot while blocking

[ripe seal]

I could see it being like with a machete or a cleaver that’s lighter than the poison one

[rare idol]

heavy sword + bistol

would be a fun zel exclusive

[calm aurora]

What happened?

[fringe marten]

pickpocket procs off chem DoT????

[amber sundial]

If you applied it yea

[velvet folio]

does stim supply work with non-lab stimms?

[rare idol]

if you keep stam up you get +40% dodge recover and 20% dr and it is very noticeable when that drops

[fringe marten]

holy hell infinite ammo needle pistol

[rare idol]

idk that desperado needle would work well

[velvet folio]

you telling me i can just give everyone a healing stimm? insane

[rare idol]

i feel like you mostly want the klobbs and the snubs

[fringe marten]

doesnt have to be desperado to get pickpocket

[amber sundial]

Tbf you have to actually find said stim

[reef spoke]

Yeah I slide everywhere to keep that up lol

[ripe seal]

Desperado needle should have bad up time on the duration but you’re still spamming out a lot of free needles

[velvet folio]

yeah, but still very good with any of the other ones as well

[calm aurora]

With sprint eff and stam on the needle?

[rare idol]

3 point spend for pickpocket if youre just dipping

[rare idol]

yeh https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=a083c287-29f2-4271-89fd-1c8a0dda61bd

[manic wolf]

Huh, just got a perfect roll Tac Axe from Emprah, guess im tryin that on Scummer

[rotund agate]

btw, what's the range of "nearby" for Toxin Mania?

[fringe marten]

2/3 of what i get are good hits so i don't mind, mag capacity is also nice

im not really starving for points

[split lagoon]

Is coated weaponry worth when using the bone saw?

[calm aurora]

No hyperviolence or crit chance on dodge?

[rain snow]

again at this weird place where i finished all the penances outside 100 mission completion and i kinda dont want to play the class anymore lmao

[rare idol]

Perma crit from chem dep and the finesse modifier on bone is kinda ass

Hyperviolence I am thinking about esp with tox

Lots of mostly dead stuff you massively overkill

[calm aurora]

The class was launched Tuesday evening. Maybe you don't have to rush...

[manic wolf]

I am so tempted to run Slaughter Spree on Tac Axe

[woeful hill]

: (

[manic wolf]

All the Tox Dots

[rare idol]

I like scum, it scratches the same itch as psyker

On both I can play as a hyper mobile whirring melee deathbot

[rain sedge]

i think im going to wait to see if they do a balance pass then play again. and no im not talking about it being a squishy class. it just doesnt scratch that itch. that psyker does....:o

[manic wolf]

Scum is fun because your inputs mean a whole lot more imo

They kinda dont mean as much on some of the other classes

[split lagoon]

Scum is fun, it's squishy and it could be a little bit tougher, tbh, but the class itself is fun

[rare idol]

I agree, I notice stam loss and the lack of EE a lot in melee 😂 plus I love the mode switches on 🦴 and needler, I have a lot of cool tools to play with

[calm aurora]

Scum is fun because that's the real test to see if you've been carried all that time 🙂

[bronze glade]

Some people didn't like the answer

[hazy vector]

I accidentally read reddit today

holy shit takes on hiver are bad there

[split lagoon]

Guys, hyperviolence or toxin mania on chem saw build?

[manic wolf]

For sure, also Stub Pistols beat out basically every weapon for cool factor

.50cal space Hi-Points 😄

[rotund agate]

btw, does +5 secs of Stimm Duration sound like a good idea for Chem Dependancy?

[rare idol]

Like if I see a horde of rager? I blue swap the needle and slather em so they pop on each other for tox spread, then 🦴

Or with Cara I tap around the purple for brittle then pop stim and rampage and go back to yellow for massive rending.

[calm aurora]

Hyperviolence can achieve better peaks I think.

[split lagoon]

And is coated weaponry actually worth? I have doubts

[manic wolf]

If youre using only one branch of the stim tree, potentially, but CD stacks start to decay as soon as you get them, so stim duration is factored into your CD stack consumption

[rare idol]

If you have bone saw no imo, only benefit is you can stack crit and perma purple for brittle while still getting tox from crits

[bronze glade]

Oh yeesh dual auto pistol finesse is recon levels of bad

[manic wolf]

Better on faster weapons due to more application chances

[rare idol]

IMO the toxin on crit trait is for shivs

[honest shale]

I wonder what the actual numbers are. I remember Arbites full parties for a solid week. Hive Scummers are dropping off like flies.

[split lagoon]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, Using saw I don't really see it useful enough

[manic wolf]

Or Knife, or Tac Axe, anything fast really

Maybe even Crowbar, but idk what its base crit is without mods

[rare idol]

I think it’s good to have a mix of low and high skill classes

[split lagoon]

Maybe toxic renewal? Although I'm not sure if dying by toxi counts

[azure mist]

I’d argue really any high Crit weapon

Tac Axe included

[manic wolf]

Because Arby was OP as shit with zero need to be good, Scummer is more mechanically demanding

[torpid cloud]

what blessings would go on the infantry autogun? dumdum and speedload?

[fair berry]

there can only be one

[honest shale]

Companies don't survive selling $12 upsells that people end up not using. Just saying.

[rare idol]

I mean yeah, I’m just starting thematic 😂

[rotund agate]

sooo... what does the latter mean? (I use no CD stimm tree parts)

[reef spoke]

They survive by selling 10 dollar cosmetic reskins 😎

[rare idol]

I bet they do skit as an easy minion class next

[split lagoon]

Does it count if they die by toxin? Probably not, I guess

[manic wolf]

So when you use your stim and get your stack of Chem Dependancy, it starts to decay whilst the stim is still active, so by adding 5s duration to the stim on a fully specced out stim tree, you're risking losing the Dependancy stack before your next stim shot is ready

[rare idol]

I think no but am never sure

Hmm I should drop the chem dep crit for hyper violence

[winter tusk]

ayo who up hivin' they scum?

[rotund agate]

ahhhh... so exactly how I expected, seeing as I have noticed the CD reduction from Sample Collector doesn't show up in the stimm CD bar while I kill stuff during it...

[high gull]

Did my boy Larry down bad

[rare idol]

Coming back to this and to your point, if there are no high skill classes the hardcore types who spend the big bucks in the cash shop stop playing because they are bored

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. Dependancy is a balancing act, it can be really good, but you need to be considerate of your stim cooldown vs its stack duration

[rare idol]

And the 10$ cosmetics are a major earner

[high gull]

@low harbor Let's run some aurics

Am bored

Also

The fuck do the pillars do in the atonement thing

[warm axle]

i heard it didnt pre launch but that they fixed it. i cannot test to be sure though.

[low harbor]

I’m going to bed

[karmic panther]

havent tried hive scum nor seen much of it...

how SPEEDY can you get

[high gull]

It's 2 pm in NA

Come on

[karmic panther]

https://tenor.com/view/concentrating-rdcworld1-meditating-mark-rdcworld-gif-1094224017770633245

[low harbor]

I know

[split lagoon]

Hmmm

[low harbor]

I pulled an all nighter last night

[amber sundial]

your base ability gets you a baseline 20% and you dont consume stamina, and one stim provides 10% movement speed, along with other buffs

[low harbor]

Need to sleep

[high gull]

I swear, you never wanna hang out no more

I lost all my day ones

[odd jetty]

Which TacAxe is the good one?

[low harbor]

I will play after my exams are done this Saturday

[honest shale]

Yeah the lack of success on both fronts will leave Tencent with one option.

[tepid hare]

dump damage you say Reginald

[high gull]

Breeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

[manic wolf]

Tbh, kinda all of them, pick the moveset you prefer

[high gull]

But nah for real tho, go get you some sleep brodie

[warm axle]

i believe rampage is the top tier, then you can get whatever from there.

[low harbor]

I can send u my hvs builds tho

[rare idol]

Uh ok 🤷‍♀️

[rotund agate]

ye, I have noticed that.

but what would be a decent stimm CD for Dependency? I have mine at around 40-47 secs, because I want both decent damage parts, and some DR parts too...

[rain snow]

i dont really rush, i do the class penances when i'm learning it, because it's often a good intro for their playstyles

[high gull]

I've already got 3 set up, but let's see what you've got

I'm trying to get the ultimate support crate build going, but NO ONE runs support crate scum

[ripe seal]

I think the blue tact axe with the gold emblem thing is the best, from what i remember of the other two there’s a small delay when the light attack combo loops that I don’t notice on the blue one

[high gull]

So I'm out here field testing shit on my own

[rain snow]

i basically just played the 3 core builds

[ripe seal]

Otherwise I hardly notice a difference outside of how the special hit is like

[manic wolf]

Thats about the sweet spot tbh, 90s duration for Dependancy with the base 3 stacks, gives you a bit of breathing room for getting the next one in when you need to

[steep goblet]

Hey anyone wana do a mission with me for a penance?

[amber sundial]

nobody runs it because its not the silly infinite range dodge or bajillion melee power

[high gull]

I feel like support just isn't a chosen archetype in games in general

Everyone wanna be the killdozer

[outer cobalt]

what's the dump stat on the Deagles? (Dual Stub)

[high gull]

But not the guy who makes the fuel for killdozer

[amber sundial]

i hope the top left branch gets buffed so i actually have a reason to take it for support reasons

[manic wolf]

In a lot of games, but cant say that in Battlefield6, Support is a banger of a class

[ripe seal]

I just think some of the support options are less flashy, the best support thing you can run is just ammo aura on veteran and bubble for psyker

[bronze glade]

Collateral

[high gull]

I've seen how people play bf6

Pick support for the perks and talent

[outer cobalt]

Cool

[high gull]

And then never revive

[manic wolf]

Yeah, that happens a lot, but a lot of people also pick it for revives an having a goated medic makes wins so easy to get

[amber sundial]

then you got the medics from bfV, you go down and 5 billion smoke bombs descend upon you as a entire squad of medics goes for the revives

[low harbor]

Dm

[azure mist]

Mainly cause theres no incentive to be support if killing it is the best option

[winter tusk]

goddamn regular damnation players are fucking horrible

fucking liability

[azure mist]

I think Stim Crate is barely scratching out of it cause it’s literally

Stimms on demand for the team

[rare idol]

at least its pretty easy to carry 😂

just go despacito and delet everything before they die

[winter tusk]

not when they push bursters onto me and kill me because theyre stupid

[rare idol]

or tox gladiator

lmao

i pop rocked a burster onto myself a couple times

[high gull]

I bet if they gave that damn stimm crate healing

It'd be the most picked ability

I bet my left nut

[rare idol]

if they gave it toughness regen itd be lit

[bronze glade]

It'd be pretty broken

[winter tusk]

one of our teammates had almost a full wound, some other dipshit takes it when he had more hp than the other guy AND ME'

[rare idol]

right now its kinda buggy

[halcyon apex]

Me, game was fine up unitl hivescum and now is a buggy mess of fps drops, server diconnects and lagging.

[rare idol]

what i want is for the crate to use my stim whether or not the stim is on cooldown

why should the crate care

[fringe marten]

i think the issue with stim crate isnt that its support and thats 'innately bad' because it isn't
the issue is that it's out of place and doesnt work well with the options that hte class has so slotting it into a setup is annoying and difficult

[dim moth]

I just think it needs to explode faster

[winter tusk]

ah wait never mind that was auric, so about par for the course for shit players

[rare idol]

i ditched crate, its just not a good fit for right side

[low harbor]

I think stim crate is ok the problem is dependency being weird

[azure mist]

That would be game breaking

Besides it’s also corruption cleanse on demand

That alone is pretty insane for Havoc

[near mauve]

there's something primal about running rampage shivs idk how to describe it

[fringe marten]

it doesnt really work well with any of the keystones because then youre a hyper-generalist trading a good chunk of either sustainability or damage, cleave, and attack speed for the ability to give your teammates (admittedly pretty strong) buffs sometimes

[low harbor]

I think dependency needs to do stuff other than CD reduction tbh

CD reduction doesn’t scale that well for hvs

Cuz u can just run 15 point CD rate stim

And be better at it

For the 2 abilities that are stances

[dim moth]

did my first havoc run as SCUM and me and another ganger were just tearing through every enemy xd

[amber sundial]

chem dependency could incentivize further glass cannon, take more dmg and deal more dmg the more you use stims, but lower stim cd

[fringe marten]

i think you should be able to pick up stims off the ground to infuse your stimm supply with even if you already have a stimm

[dim moth]

me eating the med stimm

[low harbor]

Nah that’s not happening

[dim moth]

oopsies

[fringe marten]

oh it isn't happening but i feel it would fix all of the issues

with the ability

[halcyon apex]

The stimm box in it's current state does feel rushed/ half baked or evn simply just out of place.

[dim moth]

I love my child the stimm bomb

[fringe marten]

alternatively as suggested earlier a much easier fix would be making it not consume your stim but using it anyway

[dim moth]

Kinda...not as good as the other two abilities

But my feelings for them are real

[amber sundial]

not consuming stim = inf concentration stim spam

[charred bronze]

I worked for a major AAA studio for over a decade and was privy to some of the user research (in addition to doing a lot of research on gaming sociology and such under my own auspices). There's a type of player for every gaming archetype.

It's not really that players don't want to play support. There's a substantial minority of players who greatly prefer it. The question you need to ask is, how much is a given play style supported, how rewarded is that play style, how fulfilling is that playstyle in a particular game, and how hard is it to play it effectively?

while it's true that a majority of players want to be the damage dealers (I believe 'majority' because it's straightforward, fun, and there generally isn't much to 'know' before you dive in--the kind of player who goes deep into the mechanics of damage dealers and fully understands all the intricacies is also a minority), there are plenty of players who would prefer support, control, tanking, etc. as long as playing those roles is effective, fun, rewarding, and not so "other player" dependent that you end up screwed if you're babysitting totally ineffective players. In short, it's way, WAY harder to design for these other preferences.

That said, there are lots of player subsets within the 'I wanna kill things' bucket, and all the others too. It's easy to oversimplify.

[lean perch]

Cooldown stimms are kinda a trap IMO because it only last the duration of your stimm 15-20s and won’t work if you pop stimm while your stance is up. Dependency is all the time, and you can pop your stimm whenever but I agree it probably needs a bit more

[halcyon apex]

Description wise this is what its meant to do, but with fatshark who knows.

[fringe marten]

i mean if you really wanna avoid that you can just.. make it consume non stimm lab stimms specifically lol

[dim moth]

the usual design to "fix" this problem just seems to be making supports as though you are designing a DPS

and then giving them healing abilities

literally every support in Marvel Rivals is kinda like this

[charred bronze]

yup

[dim moth]

to varying degrees

[bronze glade]

Nah it's really good for rapidly proccing rampage and desperado

[charred bronze]

it's by far the easiest way to hit the mark, and address that final pitfall. Nobody wants to play a tank/support/control archetype that's helpless without DPS in a team game, because of the negative reinforcement involved in losing under those conditions. It sucks to lose anyway, even when you're doing your job well

[fringe marten]

well the point is that you use your stimm differently depending on your playstyle and the main two choices are going all in on damage stats and whatnot and poppimg stim during ability for maximum carnage, or alternating stim and ability with cooldown reduction and having a higher ability uptime at the cost of being less effective during it

[foggy torrent]

Is the Enhanced penance bugged? it's stuck at 2549/2600.

[bronze glade]

Stimms aren't going to top the effect from rampage and desperado

[high gull]

One sec chief

[paper quiver]

40k is satanic

[dim moth]

yeah individually but the stimm box is THEORETICALLY quadruple value of your stimm!

[near marlin]

Bounty hunter's my favorite hive scum personality so far, he sounds very badass and his voice is similar to Rodin karnak's which I fw

[dim moth]

If your teammates don't fucking suck!

[low harbor]

Don’t pop the stim while stance is up lol

CD rate stim is the best by far

Because it’s enough uptime for u to get ability back

[fringe marten]

there is no strict 'do or don't' with stims, it's how you want to play and that isn't really quantifiable

[north crow]

so how does hyper crit interact with hyper violence?

[low harbor]

And the 2 stance abilities can be sustained long enough that by the time they’re over and start ticking CD u have the next stim ready to cut their CD again

[low harbor]

Hypercrit is bugged rn don’t take it

[near marlin]

I want them to change toughness stims to have less CD because so far it's a very abysmal pick

[dim moth]

cancles eachother out

[fringe marten]

theoretical but whats the difference between 100 and 100

[dim moth]

stimm I use for stimm box build

[paper quiver]

do you like furry babes?

[fervent steppe]

Out of cuirosity, Dose the orthos offensive power level strat also do weapons/

[dim moth]

51s cooldown is easy enough to get down from Sample Collector that I have box up whenever I want to use it as a grenade

[fringe marten]

surprised you aren't goin all-in

[novel quest]

the current event on Auric is a fast way to plasteel and diamantine, right?

[dim moth]

strength increases the damage of my DoTs, and attack speed/swap speed/stamina are very high value for their low increase to cooldown

[dim moth]

going all the way to 75s means much longer cooldown on box

this hovers around 20-30 seconds depending on how many guys I have to murderize at any given time

[north crow]

because of the no stim CDR thingie, or just in general

[fringe marten]

theoretically yea but imho sample collector is nearly a must-take

[low harbor]

Hypercrit (and instakill in general) are bugged to cause precision violence to stop working for the rest of the match

[winter tusk]

Fuck no mans land

looks cool, really shit design

[north crow]

yea I noticed that

was wondering wtf is going on

[lament stirrup]

I feel you 😭

[north crow]

thanks for the clarification

[dim moth]

still even if they do suck

[charred bronze]

I had a different reaction. Felt refreshingly 'vermintide' to me. What's your complaint about it?

[dim moth]

teamwide corruption immunity is hella useful

[winter tusk]

a billion fucking rocks and stupid fucking pieces of geometry to get stuck on

really shit design

[charred bronze]

oh lol, that's also very vermintide

[fringe marten]

i do wanna make a stimm supply build eventually i just dont even know where to start lmfao

[winter tusk]

not this bad

vermintide maps at least have more open areas

[dim moth]

here's what I run

[charred bronze]

definitely this bad. Every map in that game got revision after revision to clean up that nonsense.

It's not exactly like VT. Just reminiscent of it in sections

[dim moth]

with these stabby boys

[winter tusk]

ok so it is shit design and they fixed it later

[fringe marten]

seems very melee-centric, neat

[low harbor]

Mine with bonesaw + needle VI

[charred bronze]

Fatshark Design!

[dim moth]

stam for the attack speed is super not worth it over unyielding or something for toxin damage btw

but I like my attack spee

[charred bronze]

at least we can count on them to iterate eventually

[winter tusk]

idk about all that

[nocturne anvil]

Wait chem grenade has quick throw properties like incindiary and smoke

crazy

[winter tusk]

magistrati oubliette has one of the worst sections in the game at the start for geometry, and they haven't even touched that part

[worn canopy]

i don't understand hyper violence node?

[lean perch]

I understand the vision, but you can always alternate your stimm and ability, and not taking cooldown allows you to build into another stimm branch to make you even stronger outside of your ability than taking a cooldown stimm. As long as you aren’t solely relying on your ability to survive, I think you’re a lot more versatile taking a damage+attack and reload or damage+toughness regen stimm that you can pop whenever. You only save 10s max on your cooldown, and with a stronger stimm that 10s per ability activation doesn’t feel like a big deal to me. Definitely depends on playstyle though.

[winter tusk]

i love getting my dodge slide stopped by a rock on the ground

[dim moth]

why do they even HAVE collision

[winter tusk]

why didnt you see that rock you fucking idiot

open your eyes

[dim moth]

the little fucking bits of sheet metal all over the floor in the torrent

blocking my dodges

[glossy niche]

Are yall talking about the one section where we're fighting in dirt craters?

[winter tusk]

almost the whole map

[manic wolf]

I wish trenches map was a longer mission

[winter tusk]

theres just broken shit everywhere to block your movement

[fringe marten]

ngl my main detractor was in part diamantine because im runnin' low but I already have a very similar shiv roll so I could probably do something similar to this lmao

[winter tusk]

fucking horrible

[glossy niche]

I reckon we'll get more no mans land missions eventually

[dim moth]

give me a mission in the wastes outside the city

[charred bronze]

I think it's the right length. Just want more battleground maps, its own mission series depicting the ground level conflict and evoking those astra militarum feelings

[manic wolf]

Hope so, cos its a very cool environment an is very reminicent of stuff that people build for the tabletop games

[glossy niche]

Is that not what this is?

[dim moth]

another

[glossy niche]

There's a huge fuckoff wall of the hive city in the distance

[odd jetty]

Damn the 4 hivescum in a team missions over and over suck. Dudes die to fast

[winter tusk]

give me a mission where the environment isn't set up to fuck you over

fucking moronic

[glossy niche]

Have you tried

Pressing space bar

[winter tusk]

yes then a rock stopped me

[charred bronze]

space bar is dodge. it is known

[manic wolf]

Ima be real, i feel like Broken Steel is way more egregious than the trenches mission

I realllllly dont like that mission

[glacial gyro]

hive scum helped me finally get up and at em 5

[dim moth]

true

[winter tusk]

Broken Steel? Fallout 3 dlc?

[dim moth]

this class is a blessing for revive penances

[manic wolf]

Whatever the train mission is called, i forget cos i avoid playing it

[glossy niche]

Do the campaign missions have different vox dialogue than the regular rotation versions?

[winter tusk]

pfft no

[dim moth]

yes

[low harbor]

This would hold true if the stims gave strong enough bonuses to match the 2 stance abilities, but they don’t

The only case where it’s worth building a full spec multi-route stim is currently with stim crate because sample collector makes u get stim back much more frequently and u can build to chemtox every enemy u hit

The reality is, a speed + stretch dual route full spec stim is not remotely as good as getting rampage up faster

[charred bronze]

the intense squishiness reminds me of early psyker. It's quite an adjustment tbh

[winter tusk]

train mission is incredibly easy if your teammates aren't clueless

no mans land just has a million things to get stuck on

fucking dumb

[manic wolf]

Its not hard no, the environment just sucks, Gives me GoW1 PTSD

[glossy niche]

Is it all of em or just some?

[glacial gyro]

or just use the saw

[dim moth]

all of them have unique vox conversations

[winter tusk]

its still not that bad, the entire middle section nearly is one big run way with almost no obstructions

[low harbor]

Yea bonesaw is the best chemist melee

But it’s not the best rampage melee

Not even close

[glossy niche]

Gordan freeman

[nova juniper]

A super vertical mission set entirely on the edge of the hive wall would be sick

[dim moth]

fatshark would not be able to resist putting fifty barrels on it

[glacial gyro]

I'd be interested to hear what you think the best is

[low harbor]

Rashad

[dusk robin]

I've yet to get stuck on anything In no man's land

[low harbor]

It’s quite funny actually

New class!!!!!
Their best melee: Rashad (again)
Their best ranged: Vraks 5 infantry autogun (again)

[glacial gyro]

I would have said taxe, but I can see it

[glossy niche]

I really like the dusty upper hive missions, I'd like one like that

[low harbor]

Rashad can kill 4 ragers per light atk I don’t think anything is comparable

[glacial gyro]

I also think there's a good argument for the heavy sword and the chainsword

[low harbor]

Nah they’re not close
Heavy sword is ok

[azure mist]

It’s playable on exclusively rampage

[glossy niche]

Who is this rashad

[azure mist]

With heavy sword

[dim moth]

huge upgrade for hsword enjoyers, going from "bad" to ok

[low harbor]

Rashad Mk3 combat axe

[glacial gyro]

combat axe

[glossy niche]

I know

[low harbor]

It’s been ok, with rampage + rending it’s good enough

[glossy niche]

But who is he