psyker-class

[tulip kettle]

😮

this hurts me

right in my feels

[zinc phoenix]

I bet you rub your baguette every morning

[wind spruce]

The children died for your blood diamonds though

[zinc phoenix]

I bet you bathe in half smoked cigarettes

[long saddle]

blood diamonds?

we just sold iron ore to the nazis

[wind spruce]

Swiss blood diamonds

Yes

[tulip kettle]

and made guns for them

and cooperated with them

and sheletered them

[long saddle]

no they made the guns themselves

[marble crater]

Yeah, how dare you?

[long saddle]

we transported them across our country tho

[wind spruce]

"Not taking sides"

[long saddle]

on trains

[zinc phoenix]

Also some rarer metals. And helped them out by whitewashing their money for spy stuff

[tulip kettle]

right, just in factories in your country crewed by swedes

anyway my best friend lives in sweden and ive been a couple times

lovely people

[long saddle]

we're ok

[zinc phoenix]

Actually Sweden also was a big help to the imperial Germans in routing funds to Lenin so he could destroy the nascent Russian democracy under kerensky

[wind spruce]

Unlike the Fr*nch

[zinc phoenix]

Swedes also eat rotted fish

[long saddle]

fermented

[tulip kettle]

man they dont just eat fermented fish

[long saddle]

so does norway and iceland

[wind spruce]

I eat rotten cheese

[long saddle]

but most don't

[tulip kettle]

they have this thing called hakarl

[long saddle]

I don't

[tulip kettle]

i think thats spelt right

[zinc phoenix]

Rotted fish eaters

[wind spruce]

That shot tasty

[long saddle]

hakarl is norwegian

[tulip kettle]

well i tried it in sweden

[long saddle]

lutfisk is swedish

[tulip kettle]

and it was honstly the worst thing ive ever eaten

you also have like

liqorice but with stuff on it

not a fan of that either

[long saddle]

I think that's finnish as well

[tulip kettle]

it was fucking everywhere

[long saddle]

I don't like liqorice either

[zinc phoenix]

Banned from Sweden

[long saddle]

there's a whole store for liqorice downtown

[tulip kettle]

what i DID like

was max

[long saddle]

max is great

[tulip kettle]

"we dont want mcdonalds here"

opens their own mcdonalds but with blackjack and hookers

[long saddle]

nah we still mcd a lot

but max def has the best burgers

[zinc phoenix]

Soon you will all be victims of burgercrime

[tulip kettle]

and i felt very at home in all the small towns and villages i went to

turkish kebab shops everywhere

just like at home

[long saddle]

idk if they're all turkish tho

[acoustic jacinth]

Come to balkans and understand competitive racism

[tulip kettle]

yeah you guys do it different

western europeans do it as good natured jokes, we love each other really

[long saddle]

balkan is playing havoc while we're all on sedition

[tulip kettle]

you guys seem to actually hate each other

[acoustic jacinth]

We sadly really do

Yes

Like no joke

My country for example

Is itching for a chance to start a war with serbia

Albanians fucking hate serbs

[tulip kettle]

so stupid

[long saddle]

albanians have it hard tbf

[acoustic jacinth]

Tell me about it

[long saddle]

they lived under the dumbest dictatorship

[acoustic jacinth]

I love getting rammed by a corrupt government

[tulip kettle]

is that not just "existing in current year in any country on earth?"

[acoustic jacinth]

It is competitive here

Also its mostly

Albania leaving communism in the 90s

91 to be precise

Most of us are still commies

[long saddle]

casual corruption is western europe

competitive corruption is eastern

[tulip kettle]

nothing wrong with socialism. socialism is the root cause of essentially every good policy any government has ever made

[acoustic jacinth]

Old people here seem to love their paranoid dead dictator still somehow

Its too bad they make two thirds of us

All the young are leaving

[long saddle]

that's most countries that had dictators tbf

spain loves franco

italy loves mussolini

[acoustic jacinth]

Not in that sense

[tulip kettle]

this is factual and i challenge you to make a counter argument. i didnt say communism. i didnt say anything about dictatorships. i didnt say anything about authoritarianism or nationalism

[acoustic jacinth]

People literally want to go back

To being ruled

Under the same guy who built bunkers with poor people's money

[zinc phoenix]

Thank you socialism for the slow death of European growth as they live in a giant retirement home where everything is illegal 🙏

[acoustic jacinth]

Out of paranoia, lol

[tulip kettle]

lmao

you american by any chance?

[dusk wren]

people should remember that the usual work shift was around 12 hours before socialism

[hallow finch]

Ohemgee, a commie

[zinc phoenix]

Meanwhile in America King Trump has decided he’d love to get paid to do his job

Like a lot

[hallow finch]

Imagine being european and praising socialism/communism

[tulip kettle]

called it.

[zinc phoenix]

Preferably by donation

[tulip kettle]

sorry but

[long saddle]

former is not latter lol

[tulip kettle]

socialism and communism are not the same thing

fuck my life

no more politics

[long saddle]

that's just american brainwashing

[zinc phoenix]

Two kinds of cope for the same flavor of failure 👍

[tulip kettle]

too much uneducated uninformed bullshit

[hallow finch]

I put them side by side because I meant both

[tulip kettle]

my guy you literally know nothing

[long saddle]

if socialism is failure then I prefer living it than in america

[hallow finch]

I mean, they are right, but that doesn't mean it's a good system nevertheless

[deft stump]

That's just Trump. To be fair, US got stuck between two useless or bad karks and green or indie doesn't even get a chance.

[hallow finch]

It always looks good on paper but it can never work fully in real life

[long saddle]

socialism in reality is just socialist democracy

which is most of nordic countries

[tulip kettle]

i mean, socialist policies have been implemented in most countries including america

[zinc phoenix]

Green is just Jill Stein’s deeply corrupt vehicle for self enrichment

[long saddle]

and we're not really hurting because of it

[tulip kettle]

and they are wildly successful

and loved by the people

[zinc phoenix]

But yeah not wrong about the other two 😂

[deft stump]

I mean in general over the many votes.

[dusk wren]

not true btw

[tulip kettle]

but classic american nt even understanding what those words mean

[dusk wren]

the nordic countries are social democracies

[tulip kettle]

most nordic countries are social democracies

[dusk wren]

still firmly capitalistic

[tulip kettle]

which means they adopt socialist policies as well.

universal healthcare is a socialist policy.

state welfare is a socialist policy.

[summer prairie]

it's a scale, not a binary thing

[zinc phoenix]

Nobody has anything like the NHS which is actually socialism 😂

[tulip kettle]

the NHS is indeed a socialist structure

and is one of the things brits loved the most

then guess what

capitalists came along and ruined it

[dusk wren]

i wouldn't imagine americans, who don't have left wing parties, would understand

[hallow finch]

I mean, it's always part of the idea
If you try to implement it whole on a country, it will probably deform into communism or something very close to it because people naturally strive both for power and ownership

[zinc phoenix]

Brits do be loving a lot of things that suck 😂

[tulip kettle]

and then said "look socialism doesnt work"

classic

americans sabotaging socialist policies then saying its bad

whoda thunk it

[hallow finch]

As an entire system, imho it doesn't. Parts of it that get implemented into other systems, sure

[tulip kettle]

indeed

but again

[zinc phoenix]

Yes comrade it’s always the breakers, if we just stick every kulak in gulag we will reach paradise

[tulip kettle]

communism

and socialist policies

are not the same thing

[hallow finch]

They are not, but communism was born out of socialism

[tulip kettle]

authoritarian dictatorships and democracies

are not the same thing

[hallow finch]

With help of dictatorship of course

[dull scroll]

this whole talk of governmental systems is pretty much the same as comparing builds in this game

everything has pro/cons, ultimately it's the people/player that determine the end result

[acoustic jacinth]

[tulip kettle]

this authoritarian fascist state is proof that socialist policies dont work 🤓

[hallow finch]

Communism is like running a friendly fire build

[acoustic jacinth]

Well here we have more primitive concerns anyways. Gotta stop blood feuds in villages

Fucking

Old history harming kids born in unfortunate families

[tulip kettle]

also oddball i need one more tick for my bingo card

[zinc phoenix]

Paul Kagame method seems to work for now: “anyone talks of restarting the violence and we do horrible things to them”

[deft stump]

It could, but not with Humans at the helm.

[tulip kettle]

please can you equate nazis to socialists for me now because "socialist is in the name" so i can get a full house

[zinc phoenix]

The famous “right system, wrong species”

[hallow finch]

That's exactly my point
That is why I said it looks great on paper, but it will never work in life because of human nature

Hence: bad system

[acoustic jacinth]

Albanian people would likely love that. Can't wait for an excuse to start a bloody fight. Literally every other protest here degrades into shit

Can't have nothing

[dull scroll]

communism is a meme build, works for small communes of elite players, you force it on casual players at large everything turn to shit 😏

[hallow finch]

I mean, that's funny but I don't think I agree

[deft stump]

Heh. But yeah. Most systems nowaday seem to side with the rich and powerful more.

[dull scroll]

which part, the part it works for some small communes or the part large countries that tried it so far turned to shit

[hallow finch]

No way the elites are being treated as elites

[tulip kettle]

i mean i would go so far as to say yall need to read more theory and understand how "socialism" and "communism" as attempted by states previously have been nothing of the sort. and that the fundamental ideas behind these systems are deeply flawed in the face of human nature and need further refinement to work alongside human nature instead of against it.

did you even read my whole comment you buffoon

[zinc phoenix]

“You can’t disagree with the visible outcomes of a system if you don’t wade through four billion pages of bullshit”

[tulip kettle]

oh wow good one

[hallow finch]

Nevermind then, I misread

[tulip kettle]

"this thing which is expressly against socialist theory but calls itself socialism didnt work"

[zinc phoenix]

Oh shit here comes the demographic attacks!

[acoustic jacinth]

Not a politics guy because it is the last thing i have time to delve into. I belive everyone should have basic necessital care, but i would hate a world where everyone is equal. You do more, you get more, simple as

[late yew]

Demographics
Socialists
French
Gay

all nations lived in peace
Until demographics attacked!

[hallow finch]

As a person that lives in a country that was directly affected by communism and pretty much still suffer it's effects, I think I can dislike it

[tulip kettle]

we made a system that relies on people to not follow basic human desires for power and control and it didnt work, therefore the entire concept sucks

[hallow finch]

Not the french

[zinc phoenix]

I think people should be free to choose what they do with their own bodies and their own money

[tulip kettle]

i think that is completely unrelated to the concept at hand

[acoustic jacinth]

Yeah pretty much. We need to strive for more

[zinc phoenix]

You should read more about the outcomes of socialism then

[wraith sphinx]

what's even going on here lol

[tulip kettle]

i dont need to my guy

[zinc phoenix]

Reading would get in the way of preaching, it’s true

[tulip kettle]

the outcomes of correctly adopted socialist policies are clear

[wraith sphinx]

politics? in my
psyker chat?

[lone ravine]

The loner personalities got out

[zinc phoenix]

Dom started it with the demographic attacks and it just snowballed

[late yew]

how they are clear if no one ev er done that lmao

[wraith sphinx]

It's actually over, call the witchfinders

[hallow finch]

Idk I think it connects in a funny way

[zinc phoenix]

So horrible, now we are forced to confront the reality that we live in a society

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile, an american is trying to lecture others on economics as if they have any clue and arent currently the laughing stock of the entire world

[late yew]

I have loner personality, and that is very much opposite of it

[zinc phoenix]

Look, another demographic attack. He can’t stop himself!

[late yew]

loner is self-centered and does not need or want to share his internal world

[tulip kettle]

?

[plucky flax]

Clad died for this

[tulip kettle]

there is no demographic attack in any of what i said

[plucky flax]

#freeclad

[late yew]

this guy is the opposite, liek all commies

[tulip kettle]

i think you should work on your reading comprehension first

[wraith sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/sogga-big-floppa-floppa-approve-gif-22537201

[late yew]

Who is clad

[tulip kettle]

then maybe you can explain how monopolies are a good thing under so called "free market" capitalism

[plucky flax]

My best mate here

[zinc phoenix]

Do you consider American not a demographic?

[tulip kettle]

did i use it as an insult?

[zinc phoenix]

This would be at odds with decades of statistics

[zinc phoenix]

Yes 😂

[late yew]

I love how communists point out that monopolies is a problem in capitalism, which is absolutely fair point
But their solution to that is just making one GIGA monopoly that won't leave you with ANY choice at all
Just lol

[tulip kettle]

no i didn not

[deft stump]

There should be a floor but no celling in sense. Everyone should have the ability to live without absolutely starving and with basic medical access.

[tulip kettle]

please learn to read

agred

theres this crazy statement

it goes

equality of opportunity does not equal equality of outcome

crazy concept i know.

[hallow finch]

I mean yeah, but still gotta give them the point of socialism not being communism
(Even if communism was born out of socialism)

[zinc phoenix]

You should look into where that came from

It’s honestly funny

[tulip kettle]

i know where it comes from

[deft stump]

The sad part is, many live where there is no floor. Food is expensive and medical care bankrupts the moment you need it.

[zinc phoenix]

No you don’t 😂

You wouldn’t be using it if you did

[hallow finch]

I mean, it will always be a problem

In every system it has been

[late yew]

latter part is only relevant for us

whole europe has free medcare

[hallow finch]

Dudes rather patent and make bank on medication that costs like 2$ to produce and they sell it for 400+ or something

[late yew]

Do you have any idea how expensive modern research is

[wraith sphinx]

not whole and it isn't unconditional

[late yew]

and heavily regulated testing for any medicines

[dull scroll]

Communism can work the same way 4x melee psykers can work in h40
the problem is you force the majority of the population who are auric players to play that shit every run will wipe
that's just the reality

[late yew]

Like even with 400+ it will probably take YEARS to just pay off the investment

[deft stump]

But EU isn't the world. We have closer to the US system here. Even with extremely poor subsidies... I rather just deal with pain because $300 after sub is pricy.

[hallow finch]

I mean, the dude im talking about just patented something that was already known and used

[zinc phoenix]

Not true in two ways:

1. taxes
2. the public systems offer really crap care

Most of the comparisons on life outcomes fail to compensate for the huge number of people with guns and the vastly greater miles driven in the US. Compensating for those makes the US system look pretty good… which is sad because man is it ass to deal with 😂

[hallow finch]

If i remember correctly

[late yew]

Pretty sure you can't patent something like that

[acoustic jacinth]

Some places are so much marginally better, that there is a baseline to be considered tbh. There's a very good reason for most of our young demographic being in germany by now

[hallow finch]

Not really, you pay for it in taxes,
And you gotta wait bajillion years to get treatment
Still better than going in debt for being sick like in murica tho

[tulip kettle]

why wouldnt I

[late yew]

well guess what, onthing is ev er free

[hallow finch]

There was some fucking drama about it, I can't remember the name now

[hallow finch]

You called it "free healthcare", I just corrected it

[deft stump]

You might be here as well, if your govt mandated medisave isn't enough. Govt takes 15%~ every month out of your pay to put it there.

[tulip kettle]

"my government should collect taxes and spend that tax money on providing services to the people" is not a discredited theory or something

[hallow finch]

Martin shrekli

[tulip kettle]

and once again

humans misusing systems for self enrichment and sabotaging those systems in the process

[pine shore]

along with free healthcare, private healthcare still exists

[hallow finch]

He made a drug bajillion times more expensive after his company got the rights to it if I remember correctly

[tulip kettle]

doesnt make the systems bad

[pine shore]

And it's still cheaper

[tulip kettle]

it makes the humans bad

[deft stump]

Some ppl are just awful and extremely greedy, is just is.

[tulip kettle]

precisely

which is why socialist policies need careful protection and oversight to prevent misuse

[hallow finch]

I was making a point to @vocal quarry

[deft stump]

Like, I don't even know why some people need 10 zeros in money.

[hallow finch]

I would like to have this much money

Who wouldn't

[tulip kettle]

also, muh "liberal free markets" when i cant employ children for below minimum wage 😩

me?

crazy thing

[deft stump]

Don't they do that? I can't even get a job without asking for half the avg pay to get into it.

[tulip kettle]

look at the periods of the highest growth and improvement of societal standards of living

look at the tax and social policy that enabled it

ask yourself what happened

the UK saw unprecedented growth and improvement in the post war period

maybe that 75% higher tax rate had something to do with it, hmmmmm?

who wouldve thought that taxing billionaires out of existence and spending the money on healthcare and housing could be good?

[deft stump]

Problem is, that also might hit those without that crazy money in a way. Let alone inflation.

[tulip kettle]

it didnt before

and it wouldnt again

if you just enact the correct policies

[late yew]

you mean

do good decisions

don't do bad decisions?

[tulip kettle]

its very easy to say "if you arent a multi millionaire you dont pay high rates of tax"

[late yew]

damn, what a genius

[deft stump]

Cos govt here is increasing GST and all the lower half is is struggling.

[tulip kettle]

right but thats them taxing poor people, same as in most countries. you understand that right?

[deft stump]

You could say, it's just $20 more a month for only groceries, but that's $20 more on an already low stagnant pay.

[tulip kettle]

raising taxes for the poor and then saying "tax rises make people struggle so we shouldnt tax billionaires" is just a nonsensical statement

but again karien thats nothing to do with raising taxes for people with extremely high levels of wealth

[deft stump]

Thing is, the tax is on anyone who buys stuff or eats out.

[tulip kettle]

right but i cant repeat it again

thats the wrong tax

[deft stump]

It's goods and service tax.

[tulip kettle]

so your goverment is intentionally implementing the wrong tax policy

[celest valve]

i go into dead for being sick \o/

[deft stump]

More, tripling it in the last 18 years?

[tulip kettle]

yes, stupid

straight up stupid

same thing every country is doing

because they wont raise the taxes they should

they raise taxes like "GST" or "VAT" instead

because they are lobbied to not raise the taxes they should by the people who would be affected by those taxes

but again

when we DID do that, historically

IT WORKED

instead of raisng your GST

[dull scroll]

growth and improvement comes from people via innovation and motivation
vast majority of normal people cares about getting paid back for their effort proportionally in free exchanges
that's why socialist meme builds doesn't work, period
producers will run the fuck away if forced to give up the fruit of the labour too much, unless you do like Best Korea 😏

[tulip kettle]

they could just tax people with wealth over a certain, high threshold. say, 20 million dollars

[deft stump]

To be fair, that's the problem of the wife of a big name being owner of one of the biggest corps here.

[tulip kettle]

and the argument that is always used

is what vect just said

"if we tax the rich people they will just leave"

they didnt before

and if you enact the correct policy, it wont help them to leave

[deft stump]

Temasek gets paid by the govt for stuff as well, basically legally transferring money to themselves even if the products work.

[late yew]

and those people would just move to countries without such tax policies, and also may move their busiseness there. That's literally what hpapens irl

[tulip kettle]

crazy thought

[late yew]

this is why that french actor

[tulip kettle]

tax them if they leave

[dull scroll]

it's not guranteed, if said high producers are gun-ho about "the greater" good, then no, they won't roach out, like those in small communes very believing and close to their fellow man
if talking about the majority people now, then yes, they'll bail lol

[late yew]

De parde?

move to russia from france

because of taxes

[spice oar]

I mean ain’t New York gonna tax its richest?

We shall see if that makes them leave

[tulip kettle]

yes i hear the same argument and the reply has always been the same

literally just dont let them

if they want to leave, fine

[deft stump]

Thing is, it is very rare to find people true to it. Most people will happily stab another to get higher up.

[tulip kettle]

when you leave you will pay a 75% tax on your wealth upfront

go ahead and leave.

[dull scroll]

yeah this too, like I said before, it's all about the player and not the build in the end

people are so head deep into democracy that and commie this

[tulip kettle]

people will act in their own self interest

[dull scroll]

but in the end, the reality is, it's the players

[tulip kettle]

so you make it in their interest to not leave

its pretty damn simple

it wrked before

you can stay and pay a 50% wealth tax

or leave and pay 75%

your choice

but heres the thing

you have to actually enact those policies

[late yew]

Fools always have easy solutions for everything

[deft stump]

Cos even in an RPG party, a really nice person would totally finagle a way to make their totally not good char help the party.

[tulip kettle]

crazy its what governments did in the wake of WW2 and, as i said, implemented some of the most widely loved and benefecial policies ever and saw unprecedented growth

and then the neocons came along and said "actually we need to maximise shareholder value and privatise nationalised services"

and here we are 50 years later

shocked pikachu

greater wealth inequality than at any time in human history

who could have predicted this.

[dull scroll]

that been said, given the state of the population here in the West, both general population and leadership, do I recommend this place play the meme build that is socialism? fuck no lol
they'll wipe like auric parties trying off meta in h40, and I'll prob have to gtfo before the borders get locked

[tulip kettle]

renationalisation of sectors has been successful everywhere it has been implemented.

[zinc phoenix]

Just look at Argentina. They renationalized everything and it went great

[tulip kettle]

LMAO

LOL EVEN

[zinc phoenix]

Or Ecuador, they had a great time

[tulip kettle]

they did no such thing

[zinc phoenix]

Or how about Venezuela

[tulip kettle]

again they did no such thing

but go off king

[zinc phoenix]

I forgot, no true socialism

[tulip kettle]

argentina literally did THE OPPOSITE

[zinc phoenix]

It’s only socialism if it works, if it doesn’t it’s communism

[tulip kettle]

AND YOUR COUNTRY JUST BAILED THEM OUT FOR 40 BILLION

good one

[zinc phoenix]

Did you know that there was an Argentina before Milei?

[tulip kettle]

buffoon

[zinc phoenix]

Of course not 😂

Watch this man try to figure out what Peronism is before running to Google

Christina and Nestor doesn’t real, they can’t hurt you

[tulip kettle]

i think you are genuinely brainwashed

like, genuinely

[deft stump]

Honestly, I think is better to go back to RPing than continue. Fantasy socialist tribe on a planet in the unknown regions go.

[late yew]

dead within 1 generation

[tulip kettle]

"lets throw out our entire ideology in the face of economic terrorism from the US"

[zinc phoenix]

The “forgotten” tribes in Brazil have to be protected from the poachers and wildcats who otherwise just murder them

[deft stump]

I mean, they were the weakest of their ancestors that mated with ppl from the stars to create hybirds. The tribe is the weakest of those grouping up to help each other survive.

So, farming tribe who accepts the idea of shamans being protectors still.

Shamans are basically just grey jedi of their kind.

[zinc phoenix]

How do I sign up for these shaman powers?

I like this job description, I am in

[deft stump]

Be grey jedi.

[zinc phoenix]

“Behold weaklings, I am your shaman protector Jedi man. Give me stuff in return for my beneficence”

[deft stump]

.-.

So you like giant rat meat and harvest crops as offerings?

[zinc phoenix]

That’s it I’m done protecting 😂

[deft stump]

They are literally a farming village tribe, the hunts are done by a grey "jedi" goober of a fluffball that cheats because she's a natural at stealth force power.

[zinc phoenix]

Gotta start protecting a more upscale locality

[deft stump]

A.k.a. I walk up to giant rat and stab it in the eye for massive critical damage.

[zinc phoenix]

The farmers can’t just buy a space shotgun and solve the problem without close combat?

[deft stump]

They are a race that rarely interacts with travellers from beyond. It's been less than 400 years since outsiders showed up randomly one day.

[late yew]

add in some virgins and i am in

[deft stump]

The blasters they have are all antiques.

[late yew]

WHAT DOES THIS REACTION MEAN

you deserve some flaying

[deft stump]

Specifically that use? Judging.

[austere warren]

Scrolling up is a time. Hell are folks on now?

[deft stump]

I dunno. I'm writing RP posts elsewhere. Star Wars related but also not really.

[austere warren]

Shmarbwaears

Haven't touched sw since whatever that decent enough jedi game was

[deft stump]

I just like world building so made an entire world in the unknown regions.

While friend just wanted to play a Mando.

[late yew]

swtor is great

also all star wars content except Old Republic is meh

[deft stump]

I had been playing LEGO Skywalker saga and just blarghing through the last 3 episodes.

[late yew]

JEdi academy?

try KOTOR 1 and especially 2

[deft stump]

The classic one? Fun.

[austere warren]

Eventually I'll learn enough to play around as I please with creative writing. Haven't really sat down with the rest of any established material. It's a lot of scattered firsthand and secondhand knowledge.

Last game before fallen order I tried getting to work was kotor 1 but I didn't feel like figuring out some of the stability modding needed. Had a lot of functionality issues. Controls would turn off randomly, crashes. Old incompatible software kind of time.

[zinc phoenix]

400 years is the time between the Virginia colony and today. In all that time nobody worked out how to blast a rat with a shotgun??!

[deft stump]

They are like caveman tech then.

[austere warren]

Never finished the original trilogy, enjoyed most of the 2nd, 3rd was...interesting in the worst ways but had potential (Potential®). Seen the early 2000's animated stuff and touched force unleashed iirc. Played Battlefront 2 and I think some random arcade game at some point.

[deft stump]

How many years did it take for us to go from spears and rocks to guns?

[pine shore]

40000

[deft stump]

Probably be like stability modding KotoR. Worth playing, but requires fan patch and more.

[deft stump]

Classic Battlefront was better imo.

[austere warren]

Og is fun even if beyond outdated. I didn't get as deep into front2 because nobody else i knew had it in rotation. Didn't feel like learning it solo at the time despite loving the dogfighting.

Squadron is waiting for me. I won't answer since I'm busy enough off of downtime.

[austere warren]

100%

Old bioware games like that just collapse ig. I'll get to it eventually since I actually do want to engage in the story.

[deft stump]

I played with bots on the Xbox lul.

[deft stump]

True. Was a nightmare on Win 7, let alone 10... lul at 11?

[austere warren]

I wouldn't have even minded the crashes if it wasn't for my controller just being decided as not real if I opened a door or loaded in 🤣

[deft stump]

Oh, lul. Honestly wished it had that NWN top down since same engine but modded a little.

Has all the bugs of the Aurora engine still imo.

Like the godawful box opening pathfinding.

[zinc phoenix]

Battlefront 2 was kind of neat but I felt like the vehicles and heroes kind of dominated the experience

[deft stump]

Same in one. Vehicles 1 shot almost everything but other vehicles.

Was nerfed in 2.

[austere warren]

I'm not familiar with NWN. What's this?

[deft stump]

Neverwinter Nights.

[austere warren]

Ah

[deft stump]

The old Bioware one.

[zinc phoenix]

That game had an insane MP community

[deft stump]

Not the MMO.

[zinc phoenix]

NWN2 had the better story but NWN had the better modding and scenario stuff

[deft stump]

Technically better graphics as well.

[austere warren]

Mhm. I'm only marginally familiar with the MMORPG. Played it for maybe a week or two or something.

[zinc phoenix]

I didn’t know there was one 😂

[deft stump]

How? It was advertised so much.

[late yew]

aslo never heard of it

[austere warren]

It wouldn't be too surprising depending ig. I only learned about it from direct personal connections and maybe some amount of ad algo slot machinery. That was around the time when there was that whole "WoW killer" marketing trend that was common for ftp and ptp mmorpgs. Some were a lot more interesting than what others claimed but couldn't bear the weight of competing in that side of online gaming.

[deft stump]

Was kinda pay for sanity as well.

Unless you were in bed with the Goddess of luck.

[austere warren]

Like for ftp microtransaction stuff? Probably. I barely interacted with it more consciously for nwn since there was no way I'd afford nor sustain the subscription.

[zinc phoenix]

I use technomancy to cast ward against ads

[deft stump]

No, the, pay to protect your gear from being degraded when upgrading thing.

[austere warren]

Ah the kmmorpg setup

[deft stump]

It was steam banner for like 2 weeks as well.

[austere warren]

I'm familiar with it from that context specifically. Not sure where the trend began that allowed the precedent to get set.

[deft stump]

Also Chinese mmo. They both abuse that to sell $25 guaranteed protections.

[austere warren]

It's a solid platform to pull that kind of shit off. A lot of the engagement modeling needed in the first place for mmorpgs is synergistic with that kind of artificial necessity the industry started leveraging and evolving.

Play the game, do the things, maybe get resources and currencies from whatever content is being done to return to the dice table upgrade vendor.

[deft stump]

Some older ones delete your gear on fail.

[austere warren]

Elsword Online was notorious for this and more.

[deft stump]

Nowadays is just fail means nothing changes cos ppl get angry about degrading.

[austere warren]

There was a time when one had to pay money in order to unlock a full action bar (8 slots as opposed to 4). If you happened to play an outdated class at the time, you had an even more restricted demo version of your character basically.

On the end of item upgrades, it was either upgrade, demotion, stagnation or destruction. With the chances of the more negative consequences going up after basically getting to middle of the road upgrade tiers.

[deft stump]

Pay for guarantee?

[austere warren]

Yup

[deft stump]

Older versions get more expensive to guarantee as it goes.

I remember one that is like $400 per guarantee later end.

[austere warren]

PvP was more about how much money you actually dumped into things than any reflection of ones abilities for example. If anything, it just made the climb faster because you wouldn't be at a steady loss to have to fight harder, better for longer the more you ran into people in fully sparked up gear lmao.

[deft stump]

Sounds like any mobile mmo lul.

[austere warren]

PvE was more of an arms race in terms of gaps between classes, with inevitable reworks and new classes showing up. If you paid your way, you just made progression smoother as opposed to having to rely on events and a fleet of characters to offset progress loss after running out of "stamina" (literally just a resource for actually queueing up for content).

[austere warren]

They seem to draw their inspirations from one another tbh

At the very least noticing that passing out of time is clear enough before critical awareness ig.

[deft stump]

Is why modern ones all just feel the same.

[austere warren]

Added note: good luck on playing a more intensely outclassed class :^)

Your personal performance affects rewards. Failure for special instanced content (anything time gated with a currency for entry) pretty much meant you wasted you time even harder.

So failure carried longer consequences if it happened so often.

[deft stump]

Is why newer ones just don't use keys unless wins.

[austere warren]

Or uh

What's that shit

Ranked protection tokens xD

For pvp games like phone league. But that's a little different in terms of what it's trying to get people to do.

Ftp gaming has an interesting history in terms of how the industry enforced those "necessities".

[deft stump]

Havoc derank protection tokens.

[austere warren]

Pfft

[floral wedge]

Loll

[austere warren]

I remember literally dropping this game out of rotation more often because I couldn't stand the original weapons progression system.

[deft stump]

Use to refill tries upon losing the last one.

[austere warren]

I got extremely lucky with weapons I liked typically sure.

But basically gambling that hard with the limited and locked perks/blessings on top of the low drop rates and low drop numbers period? Bleh.

If the state spread wasn't any good anyway? Triple meh.

[tired estuary]

Marvel snap's titular mechanic is by far the funniest/most toxic implementation of this I've ever seen

[austere warren]

Unironically played more ever since unlocked and unloaded

[deft stump]

Do tell.

[austere warren]

They pretty much copied a more simplified crafting system based around xp but the game's loop is enough to make it more...palatable.

But I've been playing this game cumulatively since closed beta rollout days and tide games are just fun.

[austere warren]

Oh yeah? Isn't snap the other card game?

[deft stump]

I know. I was just kidding about that thing. Tencent gave 99% control to Fatshark anyway. So only GW can strongarm themselves in if anything.

[tired estuary]

iirc basically, in a mobile card game you can openly bet your Funbucks to say "yeah I got this in the bag" and your opponent can double the bet

[deft stump]

Oh, the thing you can do in DOTA2.

Bet battlepass points basically.

[tulip kettle]

From the Ghastly Eyrie

I can see to the ends of the world

[tired estuary]

Lmao ofc dota2 implementing new avenues for toxicity

[tulip kettle]

and from this vantage point

i declare

with utter certainty

that this one

IS IN THE BAG

chicken squawking sounds

[austere warren]

Dota2 in particular as I understand it is the pioneer of the battle pass concept through the compendium.

Or at least a much earlier example.

[tulip kettle]

it was the first game to have a battlepass yeah

now everyone copies it

[deft stump]

You mean, insert chicken taunt here.

[tulip kettle]

arcane bolts your ranged creep

[austere warren]

That shit is mad disappointing but not unsurprising considering the economics that inspire it.

[deft stump]

You mean global steal creeps by w.

[tulip kettle]

indeed

the true tech is sunstriking ranged creeps in the side lanes as mid invoker

[austere warren]

I had an Invoker phase.

[deft stump]

Refresher NP says hi as well.

[tulip kettle]

ZEAL OF WEXORT

[austere warren]

Forgot what my favorite builds were at the time

[deft stump]

Bonus, it was when ult created treants.

[tulip kettle]

the thing is, refresher NP needs time

[austere warren]

I think I did a lot of purple-blue stuff.

[tulip kettle]

invoker can start stealing ranged creeps from the carry at minute one

MY farm is more important than yours 😌

[austere warren]

Wex (fire) quas (blue lol) exort (arcane?)

Forgot what his invocation was conceptually.

[tulip kettle]

wex is pink quas is blue exort is red

[deft stump]

Me, playing PL like poor man support PA.

[austere warren]

Ah got my names mixed up.

[tulip kettle]

you lost me at support PA

sounds like 2k mmr stuff

[deft stump]

It worked one patch, then they nerfed the range and mana cost from memory.

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile me in every game for te past decade

[austere warren]

I care not. Dex-coded antics all the way down for me in most games.

[tulip kettle]

PEW, PEW, PEWPEWPEW

[austere warren]

I remember trying to relearn the game when Riki ended up being a functional position 3 roaming support.

[tulip kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/tinker-gif-372072032747352684

[deft stump]

Naw, I get dragged to 4k avg games when ppl dragged me to ranked. Never liked it.

[tulip kettle]

my problem with dota is

youclimb to your mmr

and then every game is either tryhard or lose

[deft stump]

Cos it feels like unranked.

[tulip kettle]

unranked is where its at

[deft stump]

Forcing your Bara to go pos 5.

[austere warren]

I fell off before I made another breakthrough. Was maybe something like an beginner-intermediate with how I think about things before ending up in the league mines.

[tulip kettle]

i peaked at like 4.6k mmr

[deft stump]

Because you decided to pick another pos 1 into already 2 greedy heroes.

[tulip kettle]

and it was just such a grind

hot take

dont pick like shit

[deft stump]

A spectre third pick into SF and PA.

[tulip kettle]

sounds like SEA shit

[deft stump]

Well, fourth. I went Spirt Breaker.

[tulip kettle]

bara is fine pos 4

pos 5, not so much

[austere warren]

I mean, if you want to climb in ranked, understanding what's strong and why it's strong in relation to your matchmaking pool nuances is always helpful.

[tulip kettle]

or just be me

pick tinker

[deft stump]

Lion was the other support.

[tulip kettle]

be better

[deft stump]

Played like pos 4 Lion.

[tulip kettle]

then you reach an mmr where people have hands and you actually need a team to win

and quit playing after your 10th game in a row of going 10-0 on mid lane and you team just refuses to group and push for 40 minutes until you lose

[austere warren]

But for most people not down for the journey, Dota 2 is like the tekken of mobas in terms of just how hard on can end up being rewarded for not only understanding the game well enough at a fundamental level, but having a main and a few pockets and really breaking them apart and learning them as best as possible.

[deft stump]

We made it work since PA and SF went hyperagressive while I was told to just babysit the spectre.

[austere warren]

Plenty aren't doing that kind of commitment if they're the impatient competitive type.

[tulip kettle]

honestly different mmrs is different stuff

[austere warren]

Mhm

[tulip kettle]

climbing in 2-3k is just, understanding basic laning concepts and playing the map correctly

[austere warren]

Dota 2 works in a uniquely intriguing way in that regard.

[tulip kettle]

3-4k is overall core mechanics like pushing with advantage

4-5k is teamfighting correctly

[deft stump]

And praying the other team is more incompetent.

[tulip kettle]

and i never got higher than that

[austere warren]

League has this too but it's clearer sooner ig. And league is a very different game by comparison.

Very narrow in terms of how one can understand the game.

[tulip kettle]

league cant deny dota is better

ba dum tssh

[austere warren]

They have their own sauce relatively but I'd give it to Dota 2 for being the deeper game.

[tulip kettle]

league is just 140 of the same hero with different skins tbh

though dota has gone that way over the past 10 years

were releasing a new hero!

gee, i wonder if it will have a mobility spell, a nuke, a control spell and an aoe teamfight ultimate

[austere warren]

Yeah, Dota 2 has a very different design philosophy that allows it that room to expand and play around way more than League.

League is much much more homogenized flashy. Very spectacular and execution heavy for different reasons.

[deft stump]

Though the new heroes can be hit or miss imo.

[celest valve]

i like rubick, rubick is my dota 2 main

[austere warren]

Dota 2 has those things as well but it has more interplay the majority of the time.

[celest valve]

i have approximate knowledge of many things in dota 2

[tulip kettle]

rubick is a high skill cap hero

[celest valve]

and rubick excels when you have that!

[tulip kettle]

if you understand advanced teamfight mechanics rubick will carry you to a respectable mmr

then you get to high mmrs and rubick is a no go

you will just get bullied to fuck

enemy picked rubick?

[austere warren]

And it doesn't design characters under a rigid design space by comparison to league so characters have much more room to be distinct from each other as a commonality rather than an exception.

[tulip kettle]

gank him repeatedly and make him cry.

[deft stump]

And he only gets to steal dump point spells.

[tulip kettle]

precisely

oh enemy picked enigma, im gonna steal blackhole!

steals it precisely 0 times

loses

[austere warren]

Part of that is complimented by the way items even work since those are far more varied and interactive.

I think league started playing around with more actives but broadly speaking, itemization is more of a stat and passive synergy game.

[deft stump]

Suddenly 1 hp because enigma pays hp to convert now.

[tulip kettle]

yup league is just stat sticks

or was when i tried it

also imagine everyone getting blink dagger

but its on a 2 min cooldown

stupid

boring and stupid

[austere warren]

You have your archetypes, those archetypes are complimented better within relevant pools. You get your core items in most cases in order to just promote your powerspikes sooner or leverage advantages you get right out the gate.

But you're coming in yo league like, already frontloaded yk? With runes n stuff.

[tulip kettle]

meanwhile me on tinker in the dota heyday

blinkblinkblinkTPblinkblinkTPblink

i am EVERYWHERE

PEW

[austere warren]

In Dota 2, you're legit building a structure over the foundation of your character throughout the entirety of the game rather than coming in already juiced up.

[tulip kettle]

some games the entire enemy team literally camping in a tree line to ambush me

[austere warren]

https://tenor.com/view/hand-on-shoulder-akakichi-no-eleven-everything-will-be-ok-my-brother-in-christ-we're-gonna-beat-you-gif-16692013677699419935

I despise the split lane specialists. Deserved lol.

[tulip kettle]

then they gave tinker the shield with autoblink

that was balanced

[austere warren]

Looks fun for people that like that sort of thing though.

[tulip kettle]

very funny

oh you think you caught me?

dispelled and blinked and also fuck you

[austere warren]

I'm more into roaming pos...2-3's?

[deft stump]

Pay for rune pages or only play 1 role or get banned for playing another with wrong runes.

[austere warren]

Idk about now but what would the assassins (Pa, ta, na), riki, bh, slark fall into?

[tulip kettle]

removing item refresh from rearm is the day dota died for me

[austere warren]

Or have ig?

Those were some of my favorite characters.

[tulip kettle]

cancer that works in low mmrs

[austere warren]

Jokes aside though, what roles?

Well. Positions

[deft stump]

Invis is extremely op in low mmrs.

[tulip kettle]

depends on hero

PA is played as pos 1 really

maybe pos 2

riki is unpickable

[deft stump]

Also why people are confused when I have too many sentries and dust back in the days.

[tulip kettle]

nyx is a counter pick or otherwise a free loss

[austere warren]

Oh I know. Some at the time had longer reach in my experience but I remember losing my mind when I got Lioned and introduced to dust and sentry wards for the first time lmao

[tulip kettle]

any hero with invis as a gimmick is basically unpickable at my mmr

[deft stump]

Riki either solos or is useless depending on mmr tier.

[austere warren]

Literally in chat, from my own mouth, down to riki himself

"How the hell did you see me?!"

[celest valve]

i don't play rubick to play dota 2

i play rubick to play ability draft

[austere warren]

Lion: [Dust of Appearance] [Invisibility Ward] [Truesight gem]

read it in shop

https://tenor.com/view/ash-baby-gif-7280845142657635823

[deft stump]

He even told you?

[austere warren]

I learned to play around it but that shit was so funny.

[austere warren]

Mhm

[celest valve]

and then you realize what makes riki OP isn't invisibility

it's tricks of the trade.

[austere warren]

I thought they were cheating for a second lmao

[tulip kettle]

the riki picker when supports buy a 1600 gold item first

[deft stump]

Depends on when they started tbh.

[austere warren]

I had no idea what wards were at that baby level.

[deft stump]

That's fairly new.

[austere warren]

And Dota 2 was my first moba ever.

[celest valve]

"haha sweet, idiot"

[tulip kettle]

backstabs the suppot

the support presses ghost sceptre

the riki explodes

[celest valve]

nah i just tweak in front of them while it runs out underneath smoke :v

[austere warren]

And I only really got into it when I started playing those characters more because I just had the experience from playing rogue in wow.

The translation here is mostly the opportunistic play and fog of war roaming antics.

First skill I focused on was roaming for ganks.

[tulip kettle]

if you rent just exploding

then the support is in the wrong place

and they deserve to die

[austere warren]

There's so many mfkers now that I don't even know who they are.

[celest valve]

i legally cannot explode until the full duration of tricks of the trade.

[austere warren]

Curious about what works well on average at above average play though

[tulip kettle]

yup

tfw your silly swishing circle is on the ground and the cores are all stood there just waiting for it to end with bkb ready

[austere warren]

I was into other characters like sniper, silencer, omni knight (idk why I just liked the heal a lot for some reason) earthshaker, abaddon blah blah blah

[tulip kettle]

HOO HOO

[austere warren]

Who was the guy that went to super hell?

[deft stump]

And a sentry behind them hidden.

[tulip kettle]

HA HA

[celest valve]

and then i am just not there when it ends

[deft stump]

And the roamer has dust.

[celest valve]

already left with blinkstrike byeeeeeeee

[austere warren]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-sniper-good-job-gif-2696334070347293281

[tulip kettle]

the reality is at 2k mmr you probably have a great time

at 4k+ you are dead

[austere warren]

What's even popping off in the 4.5k?

[tulip kettle]

idk i didnt play in a long time

[austere warren]

Or like which characters I guess when you were playing

[tulip kettle]

they removed item refreshing from tinker and i just slowly stopped

[austere warren]

At ya peak

[deft stump]

Last I played was like Ringmaster release.

I only got on to sell cache otherwise.

[tulip kettle]

was always the same stuff

[austere warren]

https://tenor.com/view/future-sensational-gif-22515704

[tulip kettle]

puck/qop/SF/invo mid

mainly QOP

[celest valve]

weird thing is that tinker was still broken strong with item refreshing removed :p

[tulip kettle]

because they added talents and the interaction with blademail was silly

yeah i mentioned

dispel + blink shield funny

[austere warren]

Who is sf again?

[tulip kettle]

but just not as good

shadow fiend

razes

[austere warren]

Shadow fiend?

Oh yeah I liked that fucker

[deft stump]

Shadow friend.

[celest valve]

cause the uhhh heal item thing I recall had the debuff reduced with CD reduction too

[tulip kettle]

big kablooey

yeah support tinker was a thing for a while

thing is

i was buying GG boots on tinker for years before that

people didnt kno about it

then some pro did it in a game and everyone including valve realised

[austere warren]

https://tenor.com/view/asajj-ventress-gif-9505492

Hell yeah

[tulip kettle]

and then tinker got kicked into the shitter never to return

[austere warren]

I remember getting closer to being better with her. She was a lot of fun.

[tulip kettle]

now its a support pick mainly and thats a snooze fest

QOP was broken for a long time, even recently

blademail very good

another build i was doing for a long time, would get flamed for it

then it became mainstream and everyone was doing it

[austere warren]

Who's that new girl character? The monk...guardian? Sentinel? Idk what her story is. Name starts with an M.

[tulip kettle]

marci

[deft stump]

GG now applies a buff that makes it not work on targets with it.

[austere warren]

Yeah

[tulip kettle]

yup

[austere warren]

She seemed fun

I missed out on wukong

[tulip kettle]

they nerfed tinker so much in so many ways

boring stuff

[austere warren]

I really betrayed myself there.

[tulip kettle]

now i dont play.

i know the same happened with techies

lots of people quit

[austere warren]

Goblin techies was great

[tulip kettle]

they just removed all the cool stuff from dota to make all the heroes the same

[deft stump]

Not really. On release, he just crashed servers and games.

[tulip kettle]

and now nobody cares about dota

[deft stump]

At best, he halves your fps.

[tulip kettle]

2k scrubs crying about being bad

and valve listened

who knows why

waaahhh i walked up the HG into fog of war without vision or sentries and exploded!

[austere warren]

https://tenor.com/view/chuckle-alonzo-training-day-funny-denzel-washington-gif-9615704130873289913

[tulip kettle]

nerf this hero!

[austere warren]

Trickster hands supreme

My man

Wukong forever disruptive lmao

[deft stump]

Honestly, it was best when it was like rock paper scissors. Game of picking and counter picking.

[tulip kettle]

bunch of heroes with 60%+ winrates in pubs but unpickable in pro games because they only work vs idiots (techies, tinker etc)

[austere warren]

I just remember reading his kit on paper and loving it.

[tulip kettle]

valve nerfs them anyway

[deft stump]

Every hero has a niche.

[austere warren]

Played like maybe three games with him or something.

Never got around to relearning the game. Time sink too deep for me.

Let's see if I can "trick" myself into coming back by looking at the roster.

[deft stump]

It was better when the balance was focused on pro play.

[tulip kettle]

what i loved was people counter picking my tinker

[deft stump]

Or high ranked stuff.

[tulip kettle]

not understanding i have played vs them literally thousands of times and they arent a counter at all

[deft stump]

Everything else is more for fun.

[tulip kettle]

stuff like spectre

[austere warren]

Oh yeah, how are the elemental spirits nowadays? Those dude were cool as fuck.

[tulip kettle]

oh he picked tinker i will pick sp[ectre and kill him!

dagons your haunt illusion. enjoy your 2 min cd

storm is only ok

ever since the mana changes on nul tali / kaya etc its been not so good

earth always in dumpster tier because when its good its just broken

[austere warren]

I couldn't understand him at the time but I remember earth spirit being wild as fuck originally.

[tulip kettle]

ember always pickable

[austere warren]

Yeah

[tulip kettle]

they removed mana cost reductions almost entirely because of storm spirit

[austere warren]

Neat. He was a lot of fun and a zed kind of character when I learned the similarities

But like

Infinitely deeper?

[tulip kettle]

ember is just played differently these days

[austere warren]

Oh?

[tulip kettle]

it used to be stack cleave and crits and focus on sleight

[austere warren]

Mhm.

[deft stump]

I remember when that infused sand cosmetic released. Ember crashed servers and games.

[austere warren]

What's the new one?

[deft stump]

Too much particles.

[tulip kettle]

these days its rush aghs and abuse searing chains

[austere warren]

Chains was

The lasso?

Right?

[tulip kettle]

yes

at lvl 7 it does over 300 dmg and 3 secs of root to 2 targets

[deft stump]

It used to be possible to perma chains someone with perfect timing and CDR.

[tulip kettle]

on a very low cd

[austere warren]

Yo...who the fuck is pangolin warrior?

:0

[tulip kettle]

pango

swashbuckler

rolls about

[austere warren]

Hard design

[tulip kettle]

was very strong for a while

[deft stump]

Pango? Sanic with dueling sword.

[austere warren]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-disney-the-emperor’s-new-groove-emperor's-new-groove-disney’s-emperor’s-new-groove-gif-9209845644877110421

[tulip kettle]

now its not meta

[deft stump]

Hilariously funny poking stick.

Needs to snowball or blep.

[tulip kettle]

for a while pango was - buy maelstrom - delete creep waves on 10 sec cd

get javelin at 3 mins

delete supports

[austere warren]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Clinkz.

[tulip kettle]

clinkz has been reworked so many times

im not even sure what he does rn

[austere warren]

Oh yeah? Lol

[tulip kettle]

probably been changed again

[thorn wolf]

Very interesting psyker meta discussion

[tulip kettle]

did you have a question?

[deft stump]

Summon paper but hard hitting skeletons to pew pew.

[thorn wolf]

No i just found it funny twin

Think of me as a jester

Im jesting

[deft stump]

You want to deso to increase their damage.

[austere warren]

Idr whatever death pact is

Looks like he summons skeletons now instead of eating creeps and stuff.

[deft stump]

And then just stack damage since they get a % of it.

Unless that was changed.

[tulip kettle]

yeah hes done that for a while

[austere warren]

Hoodwink looks neat.

[tulip kettle]

furry bait.

[austere warren]

Ig

[tulip kettle]

not a good hero but all the furries play her

[deft stump]

It's all about tree>net>bonk bonk bonk

Ppl joke furry Windrunner.

[austere warren]

I'm thinking of like redwall mostly but it's in the same spectrum. Anthromorphs cool when made cooler for my tastes

[tulip kettle]

weebs play marci

furries play hood

[deft stump]

Then what do you call a Wind main?

[austere warren]

Oh on paper Marci is just cool as hell. This looks fun to fick around with.

[austere warren]

Elf enthusiast

[tulip kettle]

marci is a good hero

but they released catgirl cosmetics.

and its anime waifu coded

WR mains tend to be "im the main character" players

[deft stump]

I remember trading for the shoulders... god.

[tulip kettle]

then they try for a solo kill and die and throw the game

[deft stump]

The price doubled now.

[austere warren]

Oh sick viper got changed ig

[tulip kettle]

dive bombing

[austere warren]

Void spirit?

[tulip kettle]

cool hero, high skill cap, very mid

loses to most meta mids

[austere warren]

https://tenor.com/view/edge-worth-phoenix-wright-shocked-ace-attorney-gif-26238267

I read void spirit saw purple and got activated

[deft stump]

Does not bully bots as hard now though.

[tulip kettle]

its very cool

coolest purple hero tbh

then the enemy mid picks puck and you just cry

[deft stump]

You missed the meme, q now does your atk damage and such time.

[austere warren]

Ah yes

Legion Commander

I loved bullying Crystal Maiden with her.

[tulip kettle]

LC is "stomp in 2k mmr then lose in 3k because i dont actually understand the game"

[austere warren]

"Hard fought duel right there"

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-wipe-gif-16574265568803907770

[tulip kettle]

CM great example of a hero that actually just shits all over LC

[deft stump]

You get starved in higher mmr the hero.

[deft stump]

Press w.

[austere warren]

Oh yeah. That bullying didn't last long. I just lucky in those cases.

[tulip kettle]

then i nova you

then i press ulti

then i cha cha slide

[austere warren]

And like I said was on the beginner-intermediate side of things.

[tulip kettle]

and you just die

[austere warren]

In any longer game when she was there and I was lc I just prayed to the void for the w.

Failed upwards in the best cases. Totally shut down in others.

[tulip kettle]

in lower mmr on LC you just duel people who are alone on the map with blademail

[austere warren]

Mhm

Yup

[tulip kettle]

then once you have 200+ dmg buy deso and win the game

[deft stump]

She relies too much on snowballing.

[austere warren]

Yeah

Feast or famine

[deft stump]

You can't snowball, herp.

[austere warren]

v_v

[tulip kettle]

very cool of you!

now, nobody wins!

[deft stump]

And better players know how to starve you.

[austere warren]

Beeg L.

I remember a tusk whooping the shit out of me.

[tulip kettle]

tusk such a great pubstomp hero

[austere warren]

Dude straight up had enough of me and checked my ass extra hard.

[tulip kettle]

falcooon, PUNCH

yeah playing LC into tusk is just - you never win a duel

he will stand back and snowball whoever you duel

[austere warren]

I was really predictable on the counter ward game and the guy eventually just outpaced me after outplaying me

So if I ever went somewhere dude was damn near everywhere as far I was concerned.

[tulip kettle]

even a pos 5 tusk with no items will ruin your game if they are good

just stay hidden on minimap and stand behind the people you want to duel

tinker another funny one for that

[deft stump]

You now blinded. Teammate of them has shield.

What do you do when you don't hit?

[austere warren]

I think I remember actually ragequitting when I was running away from a botched teamfight and got clipped by a tinker wave from the dire safe lane jungle.

They weren't really trying to do that but they were already having a pretty good time on their farm so eventually we just lost since we couldn't pull it together on any front.

Worst part was is that the enemy team was milking their kda so they stalled the game out and that death was it for me lmao

Straight out of patience

[deft stump]

Honestly why stats is a really toxic thing around especially a permanent one.

[austere warren]

I take in stride usually. Consequence of the system for the game so I get that. And fwiw, dota 2 can be the kind of game where just because your team might be behind now doesn't mean it can't win later if people tighten up and coordinate well.

[deft stump]

Usually ppl tilt on a losing streak though.

[tulip kettle]

timing is everything in dota

if you are losing early it likely means you will win late

its why late game carry heroes are so strong in lower brackets

every game goes late because teams dont understand how to use their timing advantages to end games

even when i was in mid 4k bracket this was why we lost when we lost usually

as i said at the start, i would be 10-0 from the mid lane, its 20 mins in, and im saying to my team "group up and push to end they cant win a fight vs us"

instead they all run around aimlessly farming for no reason for the next 10 minutes

enemy cores get bkbs

we lose our timing and slowly lose the game

very normal dota experience.

[austere warren]

Definitely. My point is usually when teammates just start throwing tantrums and sabotaging the rest the game because they basically want to just punish people because things aren't going their way.

Entitled to a victory kind of mentality m

[tulip kettle]

with actual hard griefers yeah most games are unwinnable. even in 7k+ games you see this same behaviour, it never changes

[austere warren]

Literally why I never bothered with ranked climbing in league when I allowed myself to go through it. Was definitely going to be able to break through into something above average like low diamond but I stopped in gold because holy shit dude.

[graceful arch]

Good afternoon

[tulip kettle]

they think just because they are having a bad game the game cant be won

[deft stump]

Unranked, turbo or customs.

[tulip kettle]

or dont know how to play from behind

[deft stump]

Never touch ranked, srsly.

[deft stump]

Hard to play from behind if you get 3 pos 1 heroes, 1 mid and a pos 9.

[graceful arch]

No one knows how to end games in league either in lower elo the only thing is you lose enough gold advantage early the game is just unplayable.

[austere warren]

I see ranked less for the climb and more for the challenge that can come from it.

In fighting games for example though, it has more to do with guaranteeing sets with people rather than an online title.

[tulip kettle]

ranked is for games that you play solo vs solo.

like chess

[austere warren]

Precisely this one at those levels yeah.

[tulip kettle]

is nonsense in a game like dota

[deft stump]

Is like MLBB. Ppl question what happened when that solo support is somehow in enemy base after everyone just chases kills.

[tulip kettle]

if it relies on all 5 team mates playing correctly to win, 4/10 games will be autolost because of misplaying team mates statistically

the reality of dota is maybe 1 in 10 games are actually determined by you as an individual

so in, say, a 30 game streak

3 of those games were determined by you

you win 2 of those 3

and your net gain is 25 mmr for 30 games

waste of fucking time

[austere warren]

Ranked sets expectations and can only reflect some of what one can be capable of in this case especially.

Not to say that higher ranks won't be able to achieve certain checkmarks and express them clearly but you still gotta engage and understand who you're up against as the match continues. Sometimes the "better" player has gaps in their arsenal that can be exploited or specific habits that can get capitalized on in the moment, etc.

And since it's 1v1, there's a clear focus. Plenty will still find ways of coming up with salty bogus reasons for why they lost, deflections and loss aversion and whatever else.

But at the end of the day, you really only have yourself to improve over time. Can't do blame flame politics in there like a moba

[tulip kettle]

i just mean from a purely statistical standpoint, any game where you are not the sole detrmining factor in winning/losing is not a worthwhile use of your time or reflective of your skill

you can play, say, halo

go 30 kills 3 deaths

and lose

[deft stump]

Then is best to never play team based games imo.

[austere warren]

If anything it's usually a reflection of time spent grinding ladder promotions. Eventually, one can tumble their way in to other tiers.

But I get what you're saying.

[mental rock]

Ranked is not for only 1v1 games

[tulip kettle]

i just explained why it is from a time investment point of view

imagine a 5 vs 5 game

[graceful arch]

I wouldn't go that far but ranked in competitive shooters/ mobas are always a shit show.

[tulip kettle]

5 games you autowin

[mental rock]

By this logic a game with any rng whatsoever is not worthwhile to have a ranked system for

[tulip kettle]

4 games you autolose

that 1 game in 10 is determined by you

then, add in random variance

[graceful arch]

Some games allow for enough individual skill expression that you can overcome the team diff in most games.

[tulip kettle]

like i just said

imagine playing halo

[mental rock]

That is only the case when you are at the correct skill bracket

[tulip kettle]

you can go 30-3 and lose

[austere warren]

^

[tulip kettle]

you are clearly better than everyone else in the game

but you still lose and derank

[deft stump]

Is why many smurf, to get the dopamine from always winning.

[quartz barn]

Tbf theres a good reason why mmr boosted accounts are such a big topic in high end play thats not compettitive

[zinc phoenix]

I get bored if I win games too much

[tulip kettle]

the best games i ever had in dota were close losses and close wins

never a stomp either way

some games i could go 30+ kills and win in 15 minutes

wasnt fun

[graceful arch]

A lot of online games will try to balance hidden mmr in games and it makes climbing fucked.

[austere warren]

That's case when one breaks into their promotion matches. I'm not saying that skills won't be relevant here, but there is an entire layer to why people can bang their heads into the wall and sometimes just play well but also against a team that just can't pull it together the right way. Boom, promotion until the next wall.

[mental rock]

Yes and those games happen more often with a ranked system

[deft stump]

Even if it's you tryharding and soloing when everyone else left because your brain is wired differently?

[tulip kettle]

disagree

and i think yu dont understand how modern SBMM works

or, worse

EOMM

[zinc phoenix]

I’ve solo’d enemy teams after my team left in more than a few rts games 😂

[tulip kettle]

which most of these games now use

EOMM is the most cancerous thing to come to gaming

[zinc phoenix]

I also keep on with the bots until death or glory in this game 😂

[mental rock]

I don't think YOU understand. Forced 50 wr is going to give you the best quality games

[tulip kettle]

wrong