psyker-class

[tulip kettle]

but then how from 31-21

its not 10 seconds of lag

[plucky flax]

It's cheat mod.

[tulip kettle]

then even if we give benefit of the doubt and say PA takes it from 21- 17 in that delay from the 2 specials dying, where TF does that 10 seconds just appear from

[deft stump]

Trust me when I say packet loss and ping makes CD janky as heck.

[tulip kettle]

okay

i dont tust you and i think its nothing to do with loss or ping

but thats just like

my opinion

[strong gulch]

base is 31 but I have no idea

I'm just gonna trust Karien too

[tulip kettle]

yeah its 31 with 3* CDR curios and 4 warp charges

from 45

[deft stump]

Gib score, proof, yes?

[summer prairie]

it's 40s base

[tulip kettle]

apologies 40

[strong gulch]

oh yeah I do have CDR on curios

just checked

i forgor

[tulip kettle]

still, in the clip you clearly see it go from 31-21 instantly

[tulip kettle]

then 21-17

the 21-17 i can understand

it being 31 i can understand

how it goes from 31-21 in a fraction of a second where nothing dies

[strong gulch]

Ye

no syllo tho

[tulip kettle]

i cannot understand and a lag correction isnt gonna do that

[strong gulch]

server math??

[summer prairie]

it's supposed to go lower than 31s, it's just consuming the warp charges late

[deft stump]

It's a mess. Lag correction outside of 150~ ping is by Tzeentch's will.

[summer prairie]

aura+curios=31.2ss, then warp charges take it to 21.84s

that's also the order of operations

(31.2s*0.7)

[tulip kettle]

ty

[plucky flax]

Beans only took 78hp? Goated psyker tbh.

So clear of that fraud.

[strong gulch]

I was clearly cheating

[plucky flax]

Karien is god gamer so she tanks damage for fun.

[deft stump]

Till I miscount dodges. And some arse of a shooter decided to shoot from behind.

[strong gulch]

Those little single shooters in the count our dodges I swear. lol

Rude

[deft stump]

Very rude.

[plucky flax]

I play like 5.5x better than on laptop.

[summer prairie]

how come you are dead in that clip though

[quartz barn]

5.5?

[plucky flax]

Because Karien.

I trusted her but she baited me.

[summer prairie]

looks like Karien is carrying in the clip though

[plucky flax]

Tru

[deft stump]

Dookshow happened. Arby fell behind, mutie did just ignored my book. Chaos got mutied into an overhead.

[plucky flax]

She said "I use book come ress"

I came to ress and I got grabbed by mutie and died instantly.

[quartz barn]

How come you play better yet are still down

[plucky flax]

I am not tha good I'm sorry.

5.5x better than sedition level is only uprising level.

[quartz barn]

You should prob get a better chair, improve 11x

Malice qualified

[hearty wolf]

She's literally the only one taking my advice seriously about sacrificing my teammates and it's working for her

Clearly goes to show it's the better method because she carried

[deft stump]

That run went to kark anyway. Ritual after the heal point.

He just stuck more the second try.

Anyway, cooking now.

[plucky flax]

Random guy learned karien was the best player so he stuck with her.

[deft stump]

Random guy said he played with god psyker before.

Also, yes, I'm back on my Zealot for reasons and yes, someone is going to say I need to book more.

[strong gulch]

I really should have taken the opportunity to do shriek.

I was mentally prepared for bubble tho, so I "couldn't" deviate.

[plucky flax]

Beans is not a meanie.

[deft stump]

Double bubble is a godsend though.

[strong gulch]

Yeah is nice.

[deft stump]

I'm not talking about Beans.

[thorn cedar]

thinkin about them beans

[strong gulch]

🫘

[deft stump]

Still funni the rando was all, didn't believe in 2 psykers doing it.

Guy has no clue at all lmao.

[hearty wolf]

How can you play true solo with friends?

[thorn cedar]

Schizophrenia

[gray juniper]

That is pretty funny

I’ve seen that smudgy guy in pubs before

[plucky flax]

Don't think you can play true solo mod with friends.

Just mmt for old hidden missions.

[strong gulch]

I haven't been able to pull other players into true solo missions. I could just be missing a setting or something tho.

There's private games, but then you can't control the map and other things.

[hearty wolf]

@strong gulch I had dream

New build unlocked

We try today

[strong gulch]

kk

as long as my hands are ok to do it.

I took meds so hopefully that helps

[dull scroll]

they lowered min havoc player# to 2 now, pretty sure the only reason to play true solo is..solo, or you want to spawn stuff

[strong gulch]

If you want to try solo but real live mission, I can just afk.

[jovial juniper]

So they don't want you to solo practice Havoc

https://tenor.com/view/jetstream-sam-my-beloved-gif-22029076

Shame

I was about to no hit no speedrun it

[dull scroll]

they want their perceived potential player retention stats 😂

[strong gulch]

Don't get stuck on terrain run.

I could never.

[hearty wolf]

Nuh I want to play with friends but I want enemies to have 4x hp scaled

And 4x damage and stagger threshold

[strong gulch]

Grey weapons

[gray juniper]

Arby gauntlet

[jovial juniper]

Stagger threshold is crazy

Might as well play every enemy is Nurgle Blessed

[hearty wolf]

I want grey weapons but with blessings cos blessings are cool

Maybe no perks

[quartz barn]

The scab rager squad sliding forward like its lords of the fallen

[hearty wolf]

I'd say stats to 0 but 0 mobility would be boring af

Attack speed zz

[jovial juniper]

Grey weapon run is doable

Try Talentless

[quartz barn]

Higher stagger threshold vs enemies that are meant to be staggered would be aids

[hearty wolf]

I guess I can do talentless

Alright

Let's do talentless today

Or well

I will

[strong gulch]

flash back to when they changed the talent trees but I didn't pay attention and just Qed up a mission and was like "Huh. Things feel different."

After the mission. "OH no talents."

lmao

[hearty wolf]

Oh yeah you already did it lul

See it's not that hard

[strong gulch]

it was on like damnation or auric tho

not H40

BB revolver 😭

[deft stump]

Throw in a chainsword, will be fun, right?

[spiral storm]

Which force sword was the good one?

deimos or obscurus

[strong gulch]

both

[hearty wolf]

O ok

Anyway I was going to try lone wolf without little bitch mines since people can't handle dog superiority

I will bonk my way to success

[spiral storm]

arbites grenades is still nutty

[hearty wolf]

No blitz then

[spiral storm]

wdym

[gray juniper]

It’s like you’re putting yourself in the gravity chamber from dragon ball z

[marble crater]

Are we supposed to do auric without talents? Is Potato challenging us?

[strong gulch]

Sound painful, so do it.

Don't have to

Can't random build as much if there's no talents.

[gray juniper]

That does sound painful

[deft stump]

Did someone hurt you?

[gray juniper]

I’d probably last 5 minutes

[strong gulch]

Maybe later today.

Purg would probably be easiest.

[gray juniper]

Peril sky high anyway

No toughness rebuild at all lol

[deft stump]

Do not remind me of 35%~ peril EK.

Still better than using the chainsword.

[gray juniper]

Idk what the default is but the game gave me a devils claw and vigilant autogun for level 0

[radiant frigate]

weird

nobody starts with headhunters

[marble crater]

I will do it

[hearty wolf]

Is Mortis trials harder with no talents

Or

Like I know you get buffed to shit

But it's also more chaotic than an auric

And since your talents are dog shit, the guaranteed monstrosities with the waves of specials might be harder than auric?

[deft stump]

Trapper waves ruin days.

[hearty wolf]

(the point I'm making is the Mortis modifiers buff you and make what you currently have a lot stronger. But if you multiply shit by 100, it's still just 100 shit*)

[deft stump]

Trapper waves just ruin things no matter what.

[granite belfry]

New psyker here - is there a build that wants low damage?

[mental rock]

No

[granite belfry]

mastery fodder it is - thanks! 🙇

[gray juniper]

No talents game

We won the game flat out 😭

They even GG at the end. I’m dying

[pine shore]

What perks and blessings do I need for obscurus?

[strong gulch]

Goated

[gray juniper]

I’m cracking up. I wonder if they even know

[hearty wolf]

Was it just you

Or what

Who was the gamers

Give me the lore

[gray juniper]

Ty ty senpai. This was an unusually amusing handicap to try out

[gray juniper]

Took talents off and loaded into quickplay

[pine shore]

This good?

https://i.vgy.me/09gdp3.png

[sick grail]

Is psyker forcesword ranged block viable in havoc or does it lack clear?

[hearty wolf]

How was it

[jovial juniper]

Which sword

[marble crater]

I don't understand the question, how are blocking and clear related?

[jovial juniper]

Yeah that's what I would have did

Although you can swap Precognition for Slaughterer if you want to

[gray juniper]

Felt ugly. I knew I wasn’t putting a lot of damage up. Vent without talent perks for blaze is weak af too. You probably couldn’t do this with 4 defaults because no one has a defensive ability lol

[spiral storm]

Default ogryn would probably do it easily

just have CS and go ham

[jovial juniper]

Until you have to Bullrush ogryns

It stops at the first one

[spiral storm]

it's auric right?

[pine shore]

Why Slaughterer?

[spiral storm]

I think the only thing that would be a problem is a shit load of bulwarks

[pine shore]

I am using fire trauma

[gray juniper]

Yes auric

[pine shore]

So I'm not going to be attacking anything other than crushers or bosses like, ever

[spiral storm]

yeah, if you mash lights with the bully club you still stagger crushers

[spiral storm]

You wouldn't even need to melee crushers

it's trauma, jsut knock em over

[pine shore]

ok

but why Slaughterer?

[spiral storm]

I think it's just slower swing speed?

[jovial juniper]

Because it's Strength so the final results is better
Will have consistent uptime as long as you keep killing

[spiral storm]

could be wrong

[patent steeple]

killing a random horde enemy is easy, and thus gives free damage

[strong gulch]

That's good. If you do H40, I rec deflector over precog.

[spiral storm]

I thought deflector was a fun meme

cuz like... bubble

[strong gulch]

H40 tho

Bubble won't always be up and you don't always have to take bubble.

In maels and aurics, who cares

take what you want

H40 host your own game and take what you want

[patent steeple]

the only time I would consider deflector is if I wanna play meleeker, but I always use Precog and Shred on my Force Greatsword anyways, so I obviously can't fit deflector in...

[strong gulch]

If you can keep EE up and have a long range option to do that AND you have bubble on the team, deflector is less warranted.

[spiral storm]

the typical high havoc build is just purge staff isn't it?

purge, shriek

deflector would probably be cool but at the same time

I'm wondering if you wouldn't just be dead, deflector or no deflector

if you're in a position where deflector comes in handy would not not also instantly get melted?

[strong gulch]

If you have purg and have a bunch of shooters out of range with not much cover, you can use deflector to help aggressively reposition place bubble and then purg away while the team joins you.

[strong gulch]

Purg bubble is meta and the typical thing you see.

[spiral storm]

oh is it purge bubble?

[strong gulch]

yes

[jovial juniper]

Listen no one really understood what you asked
However if you pick any of them with Inferno/voidBLAST staff you don't need to worry about horde clear
Also Greatsword has the slash so once again no worries about horde clearing

[hearty wolf]

Send a psyker to go down and they get like 999hp while they're on the floor

Decoy grenade

[spiral storm]

oh right, that's why we're talking about deflector

yeah if you're worried about horde clear then just use a different staff

your melee should be a utility weapon that you pull out for a specific reason

usually becase you need to stab a monster

[gray juniper]

Which is funny to me when people aim for these really low warp resistance stats

[spiral storm]

or slap on deflector with the kinetic deflection talent

and make it a more defensive weapon

[spiral storm]

isn't low warp res good?

[pine shore]

nah, it's my auric build. I prefer dueling crutch with agile for h40

[gray juniper]

It’s rare the great sword is going to get used enough to fill the bars and when they do that peril amount isn’t going to be a dramatic difference at the time

[strong gulch]

A crutch is for people with mobility issues.

[gray juniper]

They’re probably going to be on staff enough anyway. I don’t see peril dropping far if that’s the case

[spiral storm]

I mean the alternative is dropping defense

[gray juniper]

Explain because it’s a perplexing things to me

[strong gulch]

WR is the dump yes. Depending on build, lower than 60 can be beneficial yes.

[spiral storm]

oh is he saying people chase a sword with like

maxed out other stats but still sitting at 350 power and 12% on wr?

[marble crater]

A literal crutch

[gray juniper]

He doesn’t look like he has mobility issues

[marble crater]

Not anymore, because of the crutches

[gray juniper]

Crutches got him right

[spiral storm]

I love that dueling sword is now such a hated weapon

[gray juniper]

Don’t get me wrong, it’s blood vessel busting aggravating when a poxwalker lunges like it’s life depends on it to get that one hit in that breaks toughness and sucks life out of you as you run away

[strong gulch]

It's common to call things a "crutch" when people use overpowered things or somethings that's not needed and may prevent people from learning or "getting gud". This is especially true in gaming spaces.

But it's ableist. Disabled people need crutches and other mobility aids. While a lot of people aren't thinking that deeply about the word. The impact is still there and ableism everywhere.

TLDR

I hate it.

[gray juniper]

Ah I thought we were talking game things I see I see

Like you stated that a matter of fact way

[marble crater]

[gray juniper]

Some people legit do need more helpful items fr fr

[analog verge]

anyone got an alternative

[gray juniper]

I guess people forget some people play with issues that prevent peak gaming performance all the time

Don’t ask me. I find a lot of the gamer lexicon annoying

[marble crater]

For dueling sword? Deimos

[analog verge]

no i mean for the term crutch

but deimos is based

[marble crater]

Play more games

[analog verge]

i love knocking crushers on their ass with the poke

[sand field]

the charged heavy attack?

[marble crater]

Never really thought about it

[analog verge]

yeah, heavy 2

[strong gulch]

lean on

cling to

rely on

overly dependent on

[gray juniper]

Rely on

It’s that simple

One that gives me a chuckle is game sense because I think it’s kind of vague and I’m not completely sure what it really means

[summer prairie]

How about not making poorly generalized claims about why some defensive ability is used over more offense

[analog verge]

it means "play better"

[summer prairie]

no one even uses that term correctly here

[strong gulch]

true

[summer prairie]

me and chaos are going to move on from deflector any day now

[strong gulch]

trust

[analog verge]

no but see

what you use sucks, and what i use is cool

[gray juniper]

That’s what it sounds like a lot of the time

Humble brag territory

[summer prairie]

Having this offensive blessing/perk on my melee weapon is definitely worth it when melee damage is <10% of my total damage

[gray juniper]

Like hey that’s great, so I openly suck. Any advise for someone that openly sucks and won’t replicate your technique? No? Oh ok

[marble crater]

Git gud

[plucky flax]

No.

[strong gulch]

Me yelling at my clogged sink.

[marble crater]

Behold, sleepy dog

[strong gulch]

eepy

[analog verge]

you should use deflector because blocking bullets with your wizard magic is awesome

[plucky flax]

Was deflector being flamed on?

[strong gulch]

A we bit.

Not much.

[plucky flax]

I am noob I use deflector.

[gray juniper]

When the goats say they use deflector, there’s nothing you can tell me

Idk if it was

[hearty wolf]

AH

THAT'S IT

So we have the DH ultimate

[gray juniper]

I do remember I was told specifically not to use it when I was new here

[hearty wolf]

and the teleport ultimate

I figured out what shriek should be

[long wharf]

Deflector is a noob trap

[gray juniper]

If you enter the chat at certain times of day you get completely different takes on everything

[hearty wolf]

It should be "Whispers of the damned" and when you hit 100 peril, you can use Shriek

But while you're whispering

You get deflector

You get a subnode called volatile whispers

Which begins making your peril work in reverse

[gray juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-spongebob-squarepants-wow-mindblown-gif-13169052

[hearty wolf]

The benefits of high peril are doubled but the negatives are also doubled

so warp splitting 2x cleave

but toughness replenishment from soulstealer cut to 3.75%

[gray juniper]

Barrel bombing machine

Spraying just to spray

Sin would make psyker truly chaotic

[marble crater]

To avoid building bad habits

[gray juniper]

It’s only a bad habit when I hop on zealot

It does have a lot less utility in high havoc, but when you use it it saves a lot of valuable health bar

[marble crater]

Zealot has their own bad habit talent, until death

[long wharf]

I still want more use out of the "don't go down when you perils of the warp" node

Jihad should be a valid build

[gray juniper]

I want to see maddened psyker also

Incremental damage or lingering effect countdown like gaze

[deft stump]

True grit. Don't need it with it, the moment I put it on something else, railgunned.

[marble crater]

I didn't know psyker has true grit

[pale prairie]

That’s why I love Empathic Evasion. Cause yes I do feel lucky

https://tenor.com/view/rocky-iv-dolph-lundgren-captain-ivan-drago-if-he-dies-he-dies-dies-gif-4956349

[deft stump]

No, was saying it like until death.

[woeful sigil]

It's actually pretty solid to have against ranged, I find myself having a much easier time soloing chaos spawns and plague ogryns when you can block the ranged units around you during the boss fight

So I usually leave it on

[pale prairie]

Pffff don’t need to worry about ranged enemies hitting you if you let the boss back you into a corner/elevator.

[marble crater]

[pale prairie]

Wait does deflector work against flame?

[dull scroll]

no lol

[pale prairie]

That’s what I thought

[dull scroll]

the thing with flameers is they put flames on the ground

[pale prairie]

Ah so I need deflector on my boots

Fucking hate flamers, grenadiers and gas bombers. They just loooove to but in when you are already busy with ragers or carapace.

“Take a fucking number and I’ll get to you please don’t just shoot through the crowd…”

[gray juniper]

I like that you can still slide block ranged with it

The plus side is flamers kill off chaff too

[pale prairie]

Yet I seem to die faster than some half rotted zombie heretics without names and fancy cosmetics

Where is the justice

[gray juniper]

Because…

“There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."

[ripe obsidian]

Kinky.

Slaaneshi cultists when?

[pale prairie]

When Fatshark can finally crack proper jiggle physics

[winged trail]

this is also when we get female ogryn

[ripe obsidian]

https://old.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1m92elw/new_mod_uptime_tracker/

[vestal trench]

gonna corrupt hestia, sefoni, morrow, zorin, and zola to slaanesh

[ripe obsidian]

Do it. Turn the Mourningstar into a party barge

[severe folio]

look at this lil fuker

[ripe obsidian]

That is a staff, yes.

[glacial vapor]

Who wants to tell him?

[ripe obsidian]

It resists not the warp.

But it is Voidstrike, and therefore you have been deceived

[glacial vapor]

(Blast radius is the dump on VS)

[severe folio]

...

i mean its the generalist voidstrike so

[ripe obsidian]

Blast Radius is a pointless stat. It only affects the explosion at the end, which is not important at all

[strong gulch]

WR dump is fine on VS

but the better dump is blast radius

But if you just want to call it a day, that's fine

[ripe obsidian]

Perfection or nothing. >:(

[pale prairie]

Holy shit I didn’t know you could get single digits

Guess I gotta go gambling again

[ripe obsidian]

It's single digits if you don't upgrade it at all.

Which is just spiting yourself

[strong gulch]

It's the type of thing that makes me go bananas. Spend all of my mats gambling.

Have trouble with a boss and decide I beat it naked and with broken weapons or nothing.

Also crying

[ripe obsidian]

I beat the Blackblade Kindred in Elden Ring at level 68 because I was too stubborn to go level up or change my gear. It was hours straight of getting one-shot. Was not fun. Felt good when I finally won 2-3 hours later, but I definitely died 100+ times and got incredibly frustrated.

So I get it

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/elden-ring-elden-ring-let-me-solo-her-dark-souls-gif-25572756

[ripe obsidian]

If I had spent hundreds of hours on a single boss, I still probably wouldn't be as good as that guy

[strong gulch]

Me also doing LMB spam on trauma before the crafting update because hadron game me tiny blast radius and terrible barrage on trauma AGAIN and no surge on VS.

So I ball. Spam balls while crying.

[strong gulch]

yes lmao

"I'm having a hard time."

Brain: Hold my beer.

[pale prairie]

Lmao

The crafting system was so bonkers

“Welp 700,000 ordos down the drain. Guess it’s time to grind some more aurics”

[ripe obsidian]

I think I spent like 4m dockets gambling for a perfect VS

[pale prairie]

I didn’t get a perfect one until AFTER THE CRAFTING UPDATE

[strong gulch]

I never did get perfect trauma before crafting update.

[pale prairie]

that should be a viewable stat. Amount of money gambled at Brunts

[strong gulch]

Color me surprised when we got LMB spam talents.

[pale prairie]

Ahead of your time

True visionary

[strong gulch]

yes lol

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/dune-stilgar-lisanalgaib-fremen-lisan-al-gaib-gif-13633185611076219756

[strong gulch]

And then it was terrible with the macros and my beloved QC on trauma RMB got taken away.

I did it to myself. 😭

[pale prairie]

Yeah I was abusing that shit on EK

Turning into a machine gun with carpal tunnel

[strong gulch]

I respect those to damaged their hands for ball go fast.

Less so for the macro users.

[vestal trench]

it's on sight with that mf tbh

fuck the black blade kindred

[lyric burrow]

I remember quell canceling back in the day

[pale prairie]

Yeah just put quell on a thumb button on my mouse and just alternated clicking it and left. It was glorious but I could only do so many missions a day before this weak flesh disgusted me

[prisma hinge]

from best to worst dump stat on VS
blast, warp, quell, charge, damage

warp at 60 isn't bad but blast at 60 is peak

[lyric burrow]

Bbk is cool wym

[tulip kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/skepta-shock-shocked-recoil-bbk-gif-335203723436193624

[lyric burrow]

Twinblade one is a lil jank tho

Doesnt help the one in dragonbarrow has ass terrain

[vestal trench]

yeah i hated bbk but it's my own fault for fighting it underleveled and using fists

i was fighting with both the terrain and not reaching its head

lmfao

[lyric burrow]

Fists do strike damage at least but yeah its awkward to hit

Esp if you dont have the star fists/iron balls moveset

[ripe obsidian]

Probably the hardest boss in the game for me. Definitely the one I died to the most

[vestal trench]

malenia still takes the cake for me on that front

malenia took me longer than PCR

[lyric burrow]

Yeah malenia was 10 hours my first playthrough

[vestal trench]

around the same for me

maybe a little less? like 8 hrs

spread over 3 days

[lyric burrow]

Pre nerf pcr was 6 but i had 1400 hours of ER under my belt for pcr

As opposed to like

70 for malenia

[vestal trench]

i made this after i beat her

[lyric burrow]

Not a super fair comparison

[vestal trench]

bc this meme was killing my friend grp

[vestal trench]

for some reason i couldnt stand messmer and putrescent knight even though objectively speaking, their movesets were fine

there were just certain moves that felt like ass when dodge is on button release instead of press

[lyric burrow]

Pk i havent enough to get a solid opinion on, hes probably at least ok messmer was peak tho

[vestal trench]

like i ragequit my recent playthrough bc i was trying a dragon communion build and i just could not crack messmer

tbh just, overall all of elden ring felt like a more painful experience than sekiro to me

sekiro was hard (fun) while elden ring was hard (ass cancer)

PK's fine, the horse combo move is fun to dodge

but the parts that force you to unlock your camera to look behind you and jump the flames are so ass

[sand field]

@gray juniper @upper sun @jovial juniper @analog agate Again my thanks for correcting my build and giving those tips, have been enjoying success with my inferno BB build

[lyric burrow]

Yeah the flames are kinda cursed

They interact with terrain weird too

Although thats all er fire

[vestal trench]

true

[lyric burrow]

Fuck ER fire deflection

[vestal trench]

makes that dragon on the bridge in dragonbarrow a pain in the ass

i do wonder if my perception of elden ring would be more positive if i wasnt playing it with a "dude elden ring can do no wrong, miyazaki's vision, fromsoft the goat" friend spectating

fromsoft fans admit these games arent perfect challenge

[lyric burrow]

When i was practicing moonveil only no hit any % fire giant was one of 2 bosses i scripted because his phase 2 is an rng game

[lyric burrow]

Yeah people overhype er

I love it, i have 1700 hours but i could tell you 800 things wrong with it

[vestal trench]

it's funny bc i came away from ER after beating PCR with the opinion that it's good, but probably ultimately not for me

[winged trail]

er is way overhyped yeah

[vestal trench]

....then i played sekiro and my opinion kept dwindling ever since

it doesn't help that what made hard games click for me was like hotline miami and sifu

both a lot more fast paced than ER

[ripe obsidian]

I used the laser spell + unlimited mana physick to staggerlock her. :D

[vestal trench]

i will say though im super interested in the a24 elden ring movie in development

[ripe obsidian]

Did phase 1 properly, then just laser'd Malenia in phase 2

[winged trail]

beating elden ring just made me weary of souls combat
shits barely changed after so long, sekiro was a breath of fresh air from fromsoft

[vestal trench]

yeah part of it is my own fault

i did fists build summonless

[winged trail]

couldnt even finish the er dlc

[vestal trench]

my only ash was cragblade

you'd think i was trying to challenge run but

i was just lazy to use other ashes

[ripe obsidian]

I think Malenia took me like 30 minutes, but only because I didn't fight phase 2 at all.

[vestal trench]

you try nioh at all?

[wispy pumice]

why use anything else, cragblade is how I beat malenia

[vestal trench]

i keep bouncing off bc the game's so hard

[vestal trench]

i think if i used cragblade on something other than fists it would've went smoother

[winged trail]

i played a little nioh but stance swapping hurts my brain

[vestal trench]

but fists made the range play very tricky with how long her sword is

[analog agate]

What are we. Back in 2022 right now?

[vestal trench]

im gonna try lies of P before i give up on the souls genre as a whole though

i hear it mixes sekiro and souls a bit so 🤞

[ripe obsidian]

My partner is playing ER for the first time. It's been interesting to watch.

[vestal trench]

inb4 ER ruins a relationship

jk

[ripe obsidian]

She's doing Str + Faith. Sometimes she does really well and one-attempts hard bosses. Other times she just... kinda stands still and watches as enemies kill her.

[severe folio]

oh i didnt know the blast radius only affect the end blast and not the ball size

thats stupid

[vestal trench]

i like talking abt elden ring despite it not being my favorite just cause i find the discourse about it so weird

[lyric burrow]

Yeah its a pointless stat

Always has been afaik

[ripe obsidian]

Of course it's pointless! Voidstrike is a ball, it has only round edges

[marble crater]

[severe folio]

what is can buster VB

[severe folio]

VS*

[ripe obsidian]

Probably one built to hurt carapace enemies

[ripe obsidian]

I live for reactions to my bad jokes.

[severe folio]

oh

[winged trail]

my biggest gripe with er is that the combat is still very very close to ds1 but only on the player side
you stand there and watch the boss do 5 attacks of some flippy swingy bullshit and then get a window for like 2 light attacks maybe before having to roll away yet again

[vestal trench]

to bring it back to darktide though, does anyone know how generous the window for on dodge talents/blessings are?

[lyric burrow]

P generous

[vestal trench]

like, when you hear the backstab cue and dodge then does it activate?

if you dodge during swing windup does it do jack shit even if the swing doesn't end up hitting you?

[lyric burrow]

Yeah if you dodge and dont get hit by the attack you should get most of them, and DT dodges are p generous

[vestal trench]

i might be overthinking it but im struggling to make zealot work as well as psyker and vet for me lmao

[lyric burrow]

On dodge talents are very good generally

[vestal trench]

dont get me wrong i can make it work well enough in low havoc by being a book bitch crit ability spam build

fotf does not go as well LOL

[ripe obsidian]

Dodges are largely generous. Backstab sucks. For me, at least. I cannot make backstab work consistently

[lyric burrow]

Some work on ranged even

[late sapphire]

Yeah i'd be happier with the flippy magic bullshit if i could do it too

But all of the cool spells do dogshit damage

[analog verge]

stagger em and circle around and pray to the emperor it counts

[ripe obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/elden-ring-comet-azur-comet-azure-beam-sorceror-gif-27649444

[vestal trench]

ig i rly just gotta get used to the weight of things like the relic blade then

[weary idol]

actually a lot of them do pretty stellar damage they're just FP inefficient

[analog verge]

if theres a better way of doing it and im an idiot please tell me, i need it

[weary idol]

Comet Azur is the big obvious example of that

[late sapphire]

Just blasting comet gets boring though

[weary idol]

The basic spells do a lot of damage for their FP cost

[vestal trench]

dragon communion builds too

[weary idol]

Like I'm playing seamless coop with a friend through ER and we're going through the DLC

[ripe obsidian]

Stellar, because it's space magic. I get it.

[vestal trench]

it's why i gave up on my dragon build at messmer

too much dmg trading

[weary idol]

Discus of Light is still the most damage per FP I can get but we both use Burn, O Flame as our BIG BOY damage spell

[vestal trench]

true

[weary idol]

Firestorm glowup is real

[vestal trench]

my most effective build that dabbled into magic is like

[lyric burrow]

Carian slicer is insane damage for fp efficiency

[weary idol]

I also use Explosive Ghostflame for crowd control, and Rings of Spectral Light for mobile enemies that won't let my discus hit them

[lyric burrow]

Fast af too

[vestal trench]

treespear with either order's blade or bfb, then discus, black flame, and scouring black flame as spells

so fast spells rly seems to be key

[lyric burrow]

Unironically might as well be one of the best melees

[vestal trench]

wait is carian slicer more or less dps than discus?

[weary idol]

much more dps discus cast time is slow

[lyric burrow]

Carian slicer is the most dps

[vestal trench]

gotcha

[weary idol]

But not for my build becasue Golden Order Seal is comical

[vestal trench]

ive never tried a full int build

i kinda hate how you scroll through spells in ER

atrocious ass ui

[lyric burrow]

Iirc slicer also works with either sword insignia

So you can really buff it

[late sapphire]

Tbh i was mostly thinking about elden stars

[lyric burrow]

Magic scorpion charm too

[late sapphire]

I remember finding it and going wow this is awesome i hope it does something (it doesn't)

[weary idol]

Yeah that spell's kinda mid

Almost every spell that costs more than one memory slot is tbh

Rykard's Rancor is a BANGER though

[lyric burrow]

Yeah elden stars might do damage to a deathrite bird

[late sapphire]

Ended up mostly using sword of night and flame

[lyric burrow]

Or you can one shot it with every other holy ability

[vestal trench]

real, i ended up removing greyoll's roar

tbh most dragon communion builds just devolve into dragonmaw spam

bosses later just dont give time for breath

[weary idol]

or unga bunga rotten breath lmaooooooo

[vestal trench]

yeah that too

[weary idol]

who cares if you get hit out of it with scarlet rot VALUE

[vestal trench]

like you open with rotten breath then maw the rest of the fight

[lyric burrow]

Yeah good damage but you'll never get them off if they can just eat it

Yeah decay is good

[late sapphire]

Ultimately my main gripe with elden ring is that the world is overly large

[lyric burrow]

Rots always good

[vestal trench]

even just using dragonmaw messmer was ass tho

[late sapphire]

Either i play a MAD as fuck build or every item i ever find is for the wrong stats

[weary idol]

Yeah it's quite a bit bigger than it needs to be

[late sapphire]

And i'm not gonna be a wiki warrior

[fast timber]

cant wait for the day smite is removed from this game 😄

[lyric burrow]

Real

[weary idol]

Me playing an int/faith build and there only being like 12 int/faith spells and O N E int/faith weapon

[vestal trench]

holy shit where were u ppl when i was playing ER for the first time

[weary idol]

In the base game of course

I am devouring the DLC's items

[lyric burrow]

2 now

Nvm

[fast timber]

locked out havoc because i refuse to play with it xD

[late sapphire]

Yeah that was my first playthrough also

[vestal trench]

being around people who didnt endlessly glaze it wouldve kept sane 😭

[cosmic sigil]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/u2X7Wa8njF

[late sapphire]

Hence SoNaF

[winged trail]

yeah subsequent playthroughs are a fucking slog
gigantic world full of mostly garbage but all the good stuff is miles apart

[vestal trench]

wait what

[cosmic sigil]

So good

[vestal trench]

people are asking for smite in your havoc pfs???

[weary idol]

DLC has Relanna's Twin Blades, every single one of the Smithscript weapons, and a ton of infusable items with base faith or int scaling

[late sapphire]

I much prefer dark souls because the entire game is good and it isn't goodish stuff with SLOP between

[fast timber]

nah someone else had it so i left xD

[late sapphire]

Elden Ring legacy dungeon only or something idk

[vestal trench]

oh lmao

valid

[lyric burrow]

Its a p common thing to ask of psyker or someone to bring

[weary idol]

I'm using the Black Steel Twinblade with chilling mist on it and magic infusion at the moment

[vestal trench]

even with EP doesnt smite just not do enough on havoc bc hitmass changes?

[weary idol]

Yes the hitmass changes also mean it doesn't CC reliably

[lyric burrow]

Nah it still just holds everything

[weary idol]

Especially into orange or final toll

[lyric burrow]

Not like auric

But still useful

Final toll would kill it tho

[vestal trench]

yeah i made an ep smite build out of curiosity but even in aurics i found id rather run EK, vb, or gunker

[lyric burrow]

Its a heavy support build

You can just turn the gsme into the psyk if you want

[weary idol]

here's an idea if you want to support the team with crowd control

use the voidblast staff

[late sapphire]

In aurics just run any staff and kill everything and the crowd? It's controlled, alright

[lyric burrow]

Yeah in auric you can do w/e

Trauma and purge are still comically op into havoc, void strike falls off a little but but not a ton

Very good options still

[late sapphire]

VS falls off hard

[lyric burrow]

Ive never had a huge issue unless its puss hardened

[late sapphire]

It's super cleave reliant

[vestal trench]

it's funny how VS is the least powerful staff now, i remember it being talked about as the best on launch

since old EK was just smite

[lyric burrow]

Well they all sucked early

[vestal trench]

fair enough

[late sapphire]

VS is kind of slept upon

[lyric burrow]

Psyker was just sad early

[late sapphire]

IMO it's still best staff for aurics

[lyric burrow]

Void is fucking crazy imo

That thing just kills everything

Only thing it lacks is boss dps

[vestal trench]

ive heard EK floated as best in aurics but there is the caveat that it relies on its big peril generation to keep shrieking and burning things around you

[late sapphire]

warp splitting is crazy

[lyric burrow]

Soulblaze and dots are really strong in havoc

Namely burn and SB

They get buffed by uncanny and ignore the ranged DR and stuff

And the main sources that apply it have infinite cleave

[late sapphire]

i doubt it

[lyric burrow]

So all the havoc hit mass doesn't matter

[late sapphire]

Though i guess it depends on team comp

[analog agate]

[late sapphire]

inferno and vb are super strong because of infinicleave, albeit lacking in range

[late sapphire]

haters will hate vs is peak

[lyric burrow]

Id still put void under trauma and purge but those 2 are just insanity

Need a bat to the kneecaps

[analog agate]

EK is best in non havoc. Then VB. Then Inferno. Then VS

[vestal trench]

yea thats why i think EK's put forward as best in auric even if the youtubers sleep on it

generate peril while fucking up any elite with the EK

shriek the fodder

swap to fgs or illisi if you dont have peril charged for the fodder

[gray juniper]

Unless something dramatically changed voidstrike isn’t that great

[late sapphire]

inferno is the boringest borestaff in aurics if your team is at all competent

[paper oriole]

Is there a way to find out which mission has which faction on it? I am trying to finish dreg related challenge

[analog agate]

Yes. VS can even be better than it too. Cause your team can kill things before soulblaze does

[late sapphire]

yh

I sort of agree that vb and inferno are great if your team is dogshit and you have to kill all of the chaff and the rest too but if your team isn't, inferno has you compete with them for action and spend a lot of time running and so on and vs is much better

[marble crater]

They should all have both?

[paper oriole]

I wish, my zealot can't find one single dreg :/

[marble crater]

You should play stealth knife zealot to make sure you are always the first to reach new enemies, so your team can't kill the dregs before you

[dull scroll]

alright, I see people shit talking inferno yet again

there's a reason 90% of the havoc psykers use that thing, and every elitests calling for its nerf

VS at its current crippled state is literally the bottom of the barrel

[marble crater]

Inferno is great yes, but also boring to play

[dull scroll]

well, that's subjective

as opposed to a staff that straight up knock everybody to the ground with no one attacking you?

[strong gulch]

Maps get a dreg, scab, or mixed seed. RNG on which.

[gray zephyr]

anyone have venting shriek sometimes not apply the stun or burn effect?

[strong gulch]

Ye is a bug.

[gray zephyr]

is it known what causes it?

[strong gulch]

Sometimes it doesn't apply and sometimes it just LOOKS like it doesn't apply.

IDK

[gray zephyr]

I tried shrieking and going for a res using the stun to buy time, but it applied neither.. really annoying

[strong gulch]

But also it can be fiddly about levels. It doesn't go higher or lower because you looked that direction while shrieking.

[gray zephyr]

yeah this was directly in front of me, clear line of sight

[strong gulch]

Push or stagger on shriek is also dependent on peril level.

[marble crater]

Voidblast has nice feedback for what you do, Inferno is just fire into a crowd and they die. Lmb spam animation also doesn't fit what you are actually doing. Staff just doesn't feel fun to use

[plucky flax]

90% of them use it but 80% of them suck with it. Riddle me that.

[strong gulch]

I do appreciate purg on higher ping, laggy, brain foggy, etc times tho.

[dull scroll]

completely subjective 😌

[last shore]

https://tenor.com/view/mane-im-dead-gif-6502286207230651503

[plucky flax]

There are only like 5 bubble knights and probably 3 are good so that's a higher success rate.

[dull scroll]

meaning maybe the staff isn't actually easy and boring, or else why would they suck at it 😏

[strong gulch]

ratioed

[last shore]

because they don't know to melee

[plucky flax]

[gray juniper]

Hourglass maps are best

[gray juniper]

Inferno; the thinking man’s staff

https://tenor.com/view/welcome-to-the-society-of-uncompromising-men-cheers-serious-clapping-ill-raise-to-that-gif-3532195

[candid temple]

Agreed, voidblast also a throwback to sienna lovers.

[rigid iris]

Isnt it the other way around

[gray juniper]

He didn’t have to put me on blast in front of the whole chat either but I get it I get it

[candid temple]

Let the plebians console themselves with false laurels.

On staffs, when new staff, fatshark?

0 new staffs for 3 years?

[gray juniper]

Depends on how low on the iceberg you are

https://tenor.com/view/illuminati-triangle-eye-pyramid-conspiracy-theory-gif-1208222873168159165

[candid temple]

https://tenor.com/view/peepo-peepo-riot-riot-protest-peepo-angry-gif-21768097

[rigid iris]

I find the purg to be directly as effective as the person using it

Its wonderful in good builds too

Blast is a bit harder to use but I would also argue that its also harder to mess up putting the staff to work even on its own

Like....if you hit shit with it...it staggers....the only way to not do that is to genuinely have no clue what you're doing

As for voitstrike

I haven't even tried making a build for that

[gray juniper]

It’s hard when I’m aiming it at the ground and don’t realize everyone moved over there and not here anymore

[rigid iris]

Me trying to use blast with an arbites team

[dull scroll]

Inferno doesn't stop elites from hunting you down, either you die first or they do - it's the ultimate rush
VB on the other hand is a literal handheld smite that does wet noodle dmg by comparison, booooring

[rigid iris]

At least with purg I can just like lmb stuff

While I chase them around the room

(For my own safety)

I like the voidblast blaze build shenanigans

But at that point ur just playing a dps gimped purg

[gray juniper]

It’s true that elite kill sound is more satisfying and relieving when you’re on purg and they’re mid swing

[rigid iris]

Purg also gives you way more room to make use of moving charges

[paper oriole]

I thougth saw - tired 3 and there were only scabs 😆

[gray juniper]

?

[rigid iris]

I love sliding that little bit farther forwards to get stuff into range

[paper oriole]

Butter fingers 🫠

[gray juniper]

I don’t have anywhere as much practice with voidblast/trauma staff

[rigid iris]

Its fun! A diff vibe 4 sure

Its the only other staff I rlly like much outside of electro leftclick spam

[analog agate]

VB still most fun. I got quite a lot of time on it

[rigid iris]

I might need to get myself a high res electro so when I actually use the damn rightclick it doesn't instantly fill ym damn peril

[gray juniper]

It’s cooked in I think

[rigid iris]

Thats lame

[gray juniper]

The price for higher damage single target

Voidblast shots generate a lot less by comparison

[marble crater]

@strong gulch which staff should I play without any talents?

[paper oriole]

Voidblast should be used more often

[pale prairie]

yeah the constant ground staring is both funny and terrifying

[strong gulch]

Purg would be easiest. Plenty of single target melees and base is BB

[rigid iris]

VB is like

The only other staff I ever see ngl

And thats still rare

[marble crater]

See where?

[rigid iris]

Its usually just some mediocre purg or a gun psyker who dies because 1 singilar poxxer

[rigid iris]

Uuuh I been doing aurics and havocs so there I guess

[marble crater]

Purg it is, double punishment

[rigid iris]

Haven't gotten tk havoc 40 tho

Ive seen vs like

3 times total

[marble crater]

Many here use EK for auric

[rigid iris]

And every time its like "oh neat vs"

[rigid iris]

Whats that build look like?

Is it lefclick surge or

[marble crater]

Looks almost exactly like Voidblast or Inferno, with shriek and one talent difference in the keystone

[plucky flax]

How's your ASS progression?

#nohomo

[rigid iris]

Seen a lot of seperate builds so idek what to make of that

[marble crater]

Check the one in pins

[rigid iris]

Kk

[marble crater]

Failed Joining Server 4001, like 6 times. Game doesn't want me to play

[gray juniper]

I stop caring about it tbh. I’ll go several games deathless but concentrating on it caused frustration when someone is meming or getting a death on join

[plucky flax]

If you wanna play we can.

I kinda wanna try this new event meme 1 or 2 rounds to see.

How bad it is.

[strong gulch]

oh right

[marble crater]

Just started my no talent mission

[strong gulch]

event

[gray juniper]

After at least getting 40 win with sun and tato I at least feel like there’s a threshold I know I can somewhat reach. Carries are getting more common

[plucky flax]

Okay I solo and blitz through some auric.

[gray juniper]

The no talent event

[plucky flax]

And make ppl cry about 'arby running ahead bla bla bla reddit thread'

[paper oriole]

In my games there are vets who just keep dying and complaining

[marble crater]

mission wws aborted by an unexpected error. @plucky flax what did you do?

[plucky flax]

I hacked you.

[upper sun]

he played vigil station

[dull scroll]

server is dead now

can't start pub games, dc on load

[gray juniper]

There were some guys will stupid names and awful builds in auric when I did a quick match a while ago. They died more than 7 times

[plucky flax]

Rotten armour and pox gas.

Sounds fun I'mma do it.

[gray juniper]

A zealot also actually

[plucky flax]

It's rebreather time.

[strong gulch]

fart on death

[gray juniper]

You don’t even need it. Stuff dissipates so fast

[plucky flax]

Tru but I can just hold w

I pray trapper won't get me.

Fuel for a reddit thread that.

Oh nvm dt is ded

[strong gulch]

If DT is this deaded, I might just go do a non computer thing.

[paper oriole]

Clown gotta clown 🤷‍♂️

[jagged quarry]

so the only purpose of smite is crowd control? becasue the damage sucks

[jovial juniper]

Yesnt

Base smite is cc
Empowered smite is damage

[plucky flax]

I go watch a movie.

Downloaded that thunderbolt movie apparently it's watchable compared to the other marvels slops.

The only marvel movie I watched since infinity wars are spiderman and deadpool.

[paper oriole]

It is much better, thoe slow a bit

[plucky flax]

They killed the franchise after thanos.

My purple daddy.

[strong gulch]

Who needs marvel slops when I can watch someone make paint.

[plucky flax]

Based. Enjoy fren.

[strong gulch]

Hope movie is enjoyable.

[jovial juniper]

Apparently they are bringing Reed Richards to the main MCU universe

Without Tony Stark

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

Insta flop already

[plucky flax]

The new fantastic 4 looks extremely meh (only watched the trailer)

[jovial juniper]

True (same)

[gray juniper]

Hopefully shark is fixing that thing where you’re playing smoothly then everyone is floating suddenly and it disconnects

[marble crater]

I picked EK and Illisi, it's so bad without talents

No toughness

[candid temple]

Tony Stark is Doom now.

[long wharf]

it flopped the second they said they were bringing the Fantastic 4 into main MCU

the problem is, Fantastic 4 doesn't have anywhere near the appeal of the Avengers

[jovial juniper]

Og Avengers
*New Avengers
Avengers

[long wharf]

I saw Thunderbolts*, and it wasn't that good

[jovial juniper]

Last avengers movie I fully watched was Age of Ultron

[long wharf]

civil war was good

[analog agate]

The Alex Garland movie was good. Correct

😄

[dull scroll]

Marvel slop after End Game is just slop now

[long wharf]

End Game part 2 was indicative of the direction future MCU was going

that said, give the show Loki a watch if you haven't

it's great

[marble crater]

@strong gulch we failed, two people left and at the end I also had lag, made it almost to the end event though

[ripe obsidian]

I read that there have been like 4 or 5 superhero movies released per year for the last decade. I am amazed there's anyone left who isn't burnt out

[dull scroll]

acutally you right that was good, did watch it

[long wharf]

the problem isn't the number of movies released

it's the quality

[dull scroll]

too bad the insanely good actor for Kang did no no irl

[long wharf]

focusing on side characters for a whole movie generally doesn't work

[strong gulch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1004447866250613048/1298432898004811786/Rest_in_Peas.gif

[ripe obsidian]

It is both.

[marble crater]

I will take revenge with a normal build now

[ripe obsidian]

Even if I like a franchise, I would get bored of it after 40-50 movies in 10 years

[long wharf]

the biggest problem is that Disney is taking lesser known IPs and trying to make them "related" to a specific denominator

like, say, Blue Beetle

[paper oriole]

Aint this DC?

[long wharf]

is BB DC?

[dull scroll]

Disney destroying IP is nothing new 😏

[jovial juniper]

Like
I watched season 1 of Loki

[long wharf]

oh yeah, I guess it is DC

[ripe obsidian]

Also, the Marvel "humor" just rubs me the wrong way. Everyone is quippy and the dialogue is so bleh

[jovial juniper]

And the Hawkeye series wasn't bad el

[paper oriole]

Dinsey so powerful they can destroy warner brothers

[long wharf]

my bad on that 🙂

[jovial juniper]

I didn't watch Falcon Soldier though

[long wharf]

but my point stands! Hawkeye wasn't good

it was "how can we replace Hawkeye? I know, a girl that does everything he does!"

[jovial juniper]

But from what I've seen online about Falcon Soldier, John Walker was right

[long wharf]

Thunderbolts - "how can we replace the Avengers? I know, let's round up a ragtag group of failed Captain America clones"

[paper oriole]

I will be seeing Fantastic 4 tomorrow, I will tell you how bad it was after that

[gray juniper]

You melt on auric. I’m so glad one guy had bubble when I did it

[long wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/dwight-schrute-the-office-salute-yes-sir-rip-gif-16721894

my wife watched the Sleeping Beauty remake, just to tell me how everyone online was right with how bad it was

[jovial juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/running-from-godzilla-gif-20969931

"But due to international copyright, they are not avengers"

Or something like that

[long wharf]

you definitely should watch season 2 of Loki

I wasn't sure where they were going to go with it, but it turned out to be as fantastic as the first season

[gray juniper]

Ok finally someone else said this

They should just look at the screen and go “HAHA punchline!”

[long wharf]

the problem with writing witty banter between characters is that the writers have to understand what "witty banter" is

[analog verge]

thats what everyone has been saying on the internet for years

[paper oriole]

Lets be fair to them, they were just coping stuff that worked but lazily :/

[long wharf]

it's the same problem with writing supposedly genius characters

[jovial juniper]

I'll probably do that during my vacations

[long wharf]

it's literally impossible for writers to write a character that's smarter than the writer

[paper oriole]

I read that the original writes how made good dialogue left

[paper oriole]

It is, is just takes more time

[jovial juniper]

Oh this is a joke because apparently in universe the thunderbolts cannot be the Avengers because there's copyright to it?!?!?!?

[dull scroll]

actually, now with AI, it might be possible

[jovial juniper]

And Captain America has the rights to it?!?!!

[long wharf]

throw in a mandate for the movie to be "accessible"/"hip"/"inclusive", and you have a recipe for a movie that absolutely fails to reach the audience

[pearl viper]

?????

[pearl viper]

??????????????

[dull scroll]

I mean this, with AI it might be possible

[pearl viper]

most “woke” things that fail is not because they’re woke

[long wharf]

no, it's not

[analog verge]

no when you shove the words of infinite idiots together you get a genius

its maf

[long wharf]

most things that are "woke" fail

[dull scroll]

yes it is, you tell the AI the story so far and ask it for ideas

[paper oriole]

No it was possible from the start - it just takes you more time to figure stuff out

[pearl viper]

me when i lie

[long wharf]

oh lord, that's a recipe for copyright infringement

[paper oriole]

Or read on the subject

[pearl viper]

we’re literally in the server for a successful woke property

[long wharf]

uh

Warhammer 40K isn't "woke"

[pearl viper]

yes it is

[analog verge]

not worth it

[paper oriole]

It is kinda

[long wharf]

it's satire

[pearl viper]

it’s satire of alot of authoritarian shit

that makes it woke

[analog verge]

if anyone uses woke unironically just know its not worth even interacting

[pearl viper]

true

[dull scroll]

what you mean 40k is "woke", what percentage we talking about here, no way it's not in the single digits

[long wharf]

yeah, someone that chooses to make a point of arguing on that isn't engaging in good faith

[pearl viper]

40k has anti authoritarianism as one of its main themes

[long wharf]

and that is not the definition of "woke"

[dull scroll]

what? what you think the Imperium is

a democracy?

[paper oriole]

I heard that people only believe that due to it being repeated loudly and omishion of examples when woke stuff works

[long wharf]

the essence of the American Spirit is fundamentally "anti-authoritarianism"

and I really don't want to get into an argument on modern american politics, so I'm going to stop right there.

[paper oriole]

Imperium is what it is but everyone who sees it gets the messange that is sucks due to it being authoritarian

[dull scroll]

Was the Emperor a champion of democracy? Like how is 40k anti authoritarian

[long wharf]

there's nothing in lore that says the Emperor loves/d democracy

[paper oriole]

Cause you see how bad stuff got due to imperiums way of doing things

[long wharf]

everything he did was authoritarian

his excuse was "because I'm right"

[dull scroll]

because in 40k, 30k preheresy was the "good ol days"

that was not a democracy back then lol

[paper oriole]

30k wasnt good either

[dull scroll]

if you compare to our standards sure

[paper oriole]

It just had better tech

30k is the same shithole

[long wharf]

it's really important to resist the urge to overlay real world human behavior onto 40K and draw moral lessons from it

[paper oriole]

half the legions turning traitor doesnt sound like a good goverment

[dull scroll]

in lore it was the peak of human glory to them in 40k

[long wharf]

fundamentally, the Emperor is never right

[pearl viper]

because most of the bad shit in the galaxy happened due to the imperium being hyper fascist

[paper oriole]

What, peak is dark of technology

[long wharf]

lore-wise, he was just as bad as every other despot in human history, just the most successful one in human history

[sand field]

knowing they'll turn traitor as planned, just fucked up the timeline

Plus big E not telling anyone about the chaos gods

[long wharf]

that hasn't been established

[dull scroll]

not to the people it's not, that was the era of heretek and abonmibal intelligence

[long wharf]

it's Fanon (fan canon) that Emps knew ahead of time of the heresy happening

[dull scroll]

why, you think if the Emperor made the place a democracy bad shit wouldn't have happened?

[long wharf]

that's what happens when you change canon a dozen times over 40 years

[paper oriole]

Standard of living was best, eveything in the lore supports that

[long wharf]

GW has muddied the lore very badly

[long wharf]

lore actually says nothing about the individual quality of living standards across the board during the dark time

[dull scroll]

I mean to their current view, of course objectively the standard was the best with high tech and all

[paper oriole]

Yes on this, but with STCs running around I comfortable with making this assumtion

[long wharf]

there's a massive plot whole in saying "everything was roses and unicorns with the best technology everywhere" and also saying "humanity developed weapons of war far outstripping anything we can produce today" for the same time period

[ripe obsidian]

There's a difference between witticisms and and believable dialogue. People don't want "real" dialogue in books or movies, because that's full of pauses and stutters and circular conversations. It's not very interesting, usually. But when every character it just spouting one-liners at each other, it's not even a conversation anymore. The ideal is a sort of hyper-realistic, as a professor of mine once put it, where people are just a bit smarter, faster, cleverer. It's a balance of pacing and realism.

[long wharf]

you don't create solar system ending weapons when everything is roses and unicorns

[paper oriole]

We did both nukes and internet

[long wharf]

yes, at separate times

[paper oriole]

Technology can go hand in hand

[ripe obsidian]

Of authors I enjoy, Joe Abercrombie, Terry Pratchett, and Scott Lynch all have pretty great, witty, and believable dialogue.

[paper oriole]

Discworld my beloved

[long wharf]

it can, but we developed the progenitor of nukes, the atom bomb, during the biggest war the planet has seen

[ripe obsidian]

It's also a matter of making sure even the smartest characters have their fumbles and mistakes. Like Locke Lamora's wonderful comeback, "Nice bird, asshole!"

[long wharf]

are you suggesting that the entire dark age of humanity was every system in a cold war with every other?

[ripe obsidian]

Pacing dialogue is hard. Writing one-liners to spout at other characters is easier.

[long wharf]

we developed larger nukes in response to foreign aggression and their development of nukes

[ripe obsidian]

Discworld is the best fantasy series that ever was or will be.

[paper oriole]

It was to board of me to say it but during cold war be both got ICMB's and mass TV + start of the internet - both miltary stuff evolved and civilian life got an upgrade

[white egret]

I haven't read all of them yet but it's unquestionably great and Night Watch is like my second favorite novel, ever, period

[ripe obsidian]

Military tech usually leads to improved civilian tech, mostly because military contractors have way more funding and potentially more concrete goals.

[dull scroll]

during Dark Age, Eldar empire was at its peak, and there's still hostile xenos roaming the galaxy, pretty sure it's only peaceful by force

[paper oriole]

No, I am saying that the techlonogy going foward means everything get better in general. Not only one single field, it spils over

[white egret]

anyone got a good greatsword psycher build they want to share?

[long wharf]

regardless, GW hasn't established as canon that the dark age of humanity was in fact some blissfully peaceful time

[gray juniper]

Funny to see a pseudo political debate going on tbh

[ripe obsidian]

I have read most. The only one I couldn't actually finish was Raising Steam, because of all the Alzheimer's stuff Pratchett was suffering. It reads like someone else emulating Pratchett, and not very well.

[white egret]

yeah read that one it was rough

not sure I finished it or not tbh

[paper oriole]

True to that 🙂

[ripe obsidian]

I got like halfway through and got too sad to keep going.

[white egret]

fair

[ripe obsidian]

Didn't help that I read it just after a biography of his life that really emphasized his decline

[candid temple]

one or two characters who are quippy would be fine

[long wharf]

besides, back on the topic of Emp, GW has made it clear that 1) he didn't want what the Imperium has turned into, 2) he wasn't in fact ready for Horus to turn on him

[gray juniper]

But key things to remember:
GW made lore on the seat of their pants as they went
No, the imperium isn’t fascism, it’s a satire of theocracy
Phoenix is right, it’s important to not view media of this type in an absorbed perspective. It’s merely a fun, self contained universe with little cohesive logic to it

[long wharf]

it takes a very specific quality of charisma for a person to pull off intelligent quips and not just sound like a snarky idiot

RDJ has it, in spades

without him as Iron Man, the MCU wouldn't exist

[dull scroll]

40k doesn't push any specific politics, it's just narrative driven, part of the reason for it's popularity

[long wharf]

and it's not at all consistently written, guided, nor fleshed out

tabletop players are even encouraged to come up with homebrewed chapters and such for their armies

which is why GW saying "everything is canon, not everything is true" was a brilliant statement

[dull scroll]

leaves room for later creativity and covers their ass from rabid fans, while also maintaining an air of immersion 😏

[gray juniper]

I could spin 40k as a satire on atheism with a reasonable amount of sense to the argument. It wouldn’t be logical in the end like all arguments because 40k is incoherent above all

[gray juniper]

D&D with its own twist

[paper oriole]

It works perfectly as a setting due this

[dusky crag]

It pushes one political message "I hate Margret Thatcher"

[gray juniper]

But yea projecting yourself on the media you enjoy is usually not a good idea

[long wharf]

well, it also makes fun of the "football boys" via orks

[dull scroll]

what, how it do that?

[dusky crag]

Just more a joke that the dystopian world came out under Thatcherism infact quite a lot did. They were clearly made inspired by her policies

Judge Dredd came out at the same time

[paper oriole]

But an ork named after her is a beloved faction leader

[long wharf]

while Margaret Thatcher was not a popular person, she's not directly responsible for the literal glut of dystopian genres that came out in the 80s

crime was on the rise in the western countries

between the cold war's threat of global thermonuclear war, dangerously high crime rates (to include murder), and growing economic issues from the 70s, it was a prime time for vigilante justice

add in the stunningly rapid pace of technological progress from early 70s on

[wispy bay]

Also the time when people blame movies for violence. Before they shifted it to games.

[long wharf]

people were looking for something to blame

go look at crime rate statistics from 70~90

it looked like a global crisis

[wispy bay]

Also a period of corruption in the US.

[ripe obsidian]

It also helps that those quips work against him as well. His hubris is his biggest flaw, if I am remembering the movies properly.

He's so witty that he thinks he can't fail, then he fails and the quips fall flat, and Conflict happens.

[long wharf]

and his character was written that he struggles with it

he isn't a Mary Sue

he doesn't know everything

it's one of the things that makes his character so compelling

[ripe obsidian]

Yeah, his quippiness works, both as a character and from the actor.

[long wharf]

and that all gets thrown away in End Game part 2

[ripe obsidian]

But porting that quippiness onto every single other character without the same character considerations sucks.

It's like the writers saw RDJ was popular and just tried to make every other character the same person, at least in dialogue

[long wharf]

yeah, it doesn't work

like I said - it's impossible for writers to write a character smarter than they are

[ripe obsidian]

Joss Whedon is the worst about it, and his writing style stuck even after he was booted

[long wharf]

eh, I disagree there

Joss Whedon, regardless of what you think of him personally, has written some absolute bangers

like the entire cast of Firefly / Serenity

the best of Buffy the Vampire Slayer was Joss Whedon

[ripe obsidian]

Not impossible. Just requires careful consideration. I write a lot of characters who are smarter, angrier, sillier, more experienced, and so on. Not that I am a professional by any means. But it's a matter of knowing what to say, when to say it, and what to handwave.

[long wharf]

... writing one character smarter than another is easy

[ripe obsidian]

Like, I don't know more than the basics of military strategy, so I mostly have that happen off screen

[long wharf]

writing a character that out-thinks, out-plans the writer themself is what's impossible

[ripe obsidian]

Or Abercrombie, he hides the basic military strategy of his wars by focusing closely on characters rather than a macro view of the battles

[deft stump]

This is why RPing a char smarter than me is hard. Just roll a 24 CHA spellcaster instead. No Need INT or WIS.

[long wharf]

are you sure that's easier?

[ripe obsidian]

It's difficult. Not impossible. Mostly you need to pass the icebox test. Which is a Hitchcock expression, I believe, about making sure the viewer doesn't question the validity of the movie/scene/logic until that night, when they're at home and staring into the refrigerator

[long wharf]

being charismatic isn't simply a function of physical attractiveness

in D20 systems, Charisma is the ability to influence others

[dull scroll]

It is actually impossible, but now, with AI 😏