psyker-class

[celest valve]

8-16, +2 meters to both for each charge level

[strong gulch]

If you don't have issues keeping bubble up or placing it, then wildfire would be fine. If you need more bubble, then warp battery.

[radiant frigate]

bat warpery

[strong gulch]

Warp bat when

[hearty wolf]

Iiiinteresting

I'm going to get up and go get it to mastery 20 rq

[nocturne dust]

FGS cool

but it could be cooler

[hearty wolf]

How do make FGS work tho - like. Are we running Scrier's or are we pairing it with a certain staff (doesn't seem good with purg, they're for the same purpose?)

[celest valve]

also ugh it literally comes out in less tha na second i think. literally like... i think 0.85s base time to come out

[nocturne dust]

FGS is enough of an all-rounder that it works with anything

[celest valve]

people who say it's animation is too slow are skill diffed

[celest valve]

take mk8. and

SWIIIIIIIIIIIING

[nocturne dust]

It deals with hordes and elites without any buffs, but right side of course makes it stronger

mk6 superior to mk8

[celest valve]

(it's not)

[nocturne dust]

It is.

[hearty wolf]

I'll fuck around with the move set and see what I like then

[nocturne dust]

Mk6 has an easy access stab as 1/2 of its heavy spam

[celest valve]

mk8 has faster attacks all around, including faster heavy damage with the stab.

[radiant frigate]

mk 6 more gooderer

[nocturne dust]

on top of that, the stab is accessible through the ranged slice

[hearty wolf]

I respect stabs but don't like pokey generally speaking

[radiant frigate]

mk 8 has to boop (no damage) to get the shank

[hearty wolf]

I want SWING

[radiant frigate]

mk 6 can shank out of special

[celest valve]

excuse me

one damage

[hearty wolf]

!!

[radiant frigate]

yes yes very epic

[celest valve]

also it has the force push which is like the highest impact in the game except meybe thunderhammer

[prime elk]

nah i'd say mk8 is a bit better overall

[celest valve]

also the stab does like 50% more damage than your weak ass stabs

[nocturne dust]

uh no

not even close

[celest valve]

the weak ass stabs which'll get you murdered by a crusher you didn't stagger first

[nocturne dust]

The difference is 200 damage iirc

[hearty wolf]

I hated the force push when I used the illisi because it had smol delay but don't deny it's good. Guess it's the sameish

[broken carbon]

nope

[celest valve]

1382 vs 1175. ok BIT of exaggeration but it still is higher DPS

[broken carbon]

higher damage

[celest valve]

i know what i said.

[broken carbon]

and it’s more convenient to reach

[hearty wolf]

At the end of the day, it sounds like they're both good and taking one over the other isn't do or die. Just play better

[broken carbon]

in my opinion

[nocturne dust]

*less

[broken carbon]

i was listing benefits

[nocturne dust]

*doesn't really change BPs

[prime elk]

mk8 has much better horde clear combos, whereas the two swords have similar single target, depending on the sitaution

so yeah mk8 is a bit better

[nocturne dust]

No

Mk6 has better single target

[prime elk]

cope

[nocturne dust]

and mk6 easily handles hordes anyway

[broken carbon]

being able to chain overheads for elite sniping while having a stab for bosses, ogryns, and maulers

[celest valve]

the overheads do identical damage :p

[broken carbon]

is very nice

[prime elk]

mk8 has the better stab, and you want to push attack quite often anyway

[broken carbon]

also true

[nocturne dust]

not really because it's locked behind a push

[broken carbon]

and the push before the stab helps make it safer to do anyway

[celest valve]

and while you can't loop stabs with the mk8, the sword is faster in general and stabs do like... no damage wtihout precision bonus

[nocturne dust]

and for mk6, just spam heavies

[broken carbon]

it’s not really a big deal lmfao

[nocturne dust]

None of this is a big deal

[prime elk]

it is for people who don't push ig

[nocturne dust]

[nocturne dust]

wtf u mean

[broken carbon]

the psyker mind cannot comprehend mixing multiple inputs

[nocturne dust]

I use pushes all the time

[prime elk]

exactly

[nocturne dust]

but the push attack? ew

Makes you vulnerable

[prime elk]

huh???

[nocturne dust]

only staggers 1 guy

[broken carbon]

dodge

[nocturne dust]

disgusting

[upper galleon]

Huh

[broken carbon]

yes you stagger the enemy you’re trying to hit

[nocturne dust]

Eats time for no damage

[broken carbon]

oh my god

lmfao

[celest valve]

also actually technically the mk6 has comparable horde clear combos too but it's harder to access lol

[nocturne dust]

Wow, could there be... more than 1 enemy in a horde game?

[upper galleon]

Your push itself staggers 360 around you

[nocturne dust]

Yes

[celest valve]

So. Mk6 TECH

[prime elk]

well i mean even all the sweeps are worse on the mk6, much more diagonal

[nocturne dust]

But it's a light stagger so it's not enough time to keep you safe

[celest valve]

block, tap left click to push(no attack), then light attack followup

[upper galleon]

Like i hate single target PAs personally but

[celest valve]

follow up with the only heavy attack horizontal attack both swords have

[prime elk]

yes, but this opens bulwarks and staggers crushers

[upper galleon]

Im not going to deny their effectiveness

[upper galleon]

Yep

[prime elk]

so it's worth

[nocturne dust]

I mean, yes, they're effective sometimes

[broken carbon]

the push staggers chaff, the push attack can be target at either the enemy you’re attacking, or another elite that’s a threat while you stab

also, dodge

[nocturne dust]

but you know what has the option to use them sometimes?

Mk6

[prime elk]

ah yes, use the inferior version just so you push attack less

[celest valve]

also the tap push is extremely quick to come out so this combo is like... super fast and also the force grip that comes with the push is light staggger for hordes

[nocturne dust]

and do more single target damage

[celest valve]

(about the same or less)

[prime elk]

not even with the weaker stab on the mk6

[upper galleon]

Also the, animation lock didn’t feel bad when i tried it so, idk about vulnerability

[nocturne dust]

incorrect

[upper galleon]

It’s not close to a chain weapon

[nocturne dust]

mk6 has more single target damage because of the push attack and stab on mk8 taking time to do

[patent mango]

i think mk8 should have some cooler combos

[nocturne dust]

mk6 you just spam heavies and get stabs 50% of the time

[celest valve]

less time to do c:

[nocturne dust]

even if the stabs do less damage, you get a lot more of them

[prime elk]

stabs which are weaker

[patent mango]

its a wee bit repetitive

so i like mk6 mor

[upper galleon]

Cant wait till the 3rd variant releases in 3 years

[prime elk]

not like push attacking takes much time

esp when in actual combat

[patent mango]

heavy force greatsword

[prime elk]

and you're not just spamming heavies all the time

[hearty wolf]

Alright I'm on pc

I'll settle this bait once and for all

[analog agate]

Oh is it that time zealots invade psyker chat to say how great the mk8 is? Love it

[hearty wolf]

If I have enough sockets anyway

[patent mango]

lmao

[nocturne dust]

time spent push attacking is time you could've been doing a heavy

[patent mango]

funnily enough i also like mk2 relic blade more

it does have a cool uppercut

[upper galleon]

Take ur meds

[patent mango]

that doesnt suck

[prime elk]

a weaker heavy yes

[nocturne dust]

2 heavies better than 1

[analog agate]

I use the mk8 too🤷‍♂️

[patent mango]

i don wanna push to do an attack im gonna be fr

[nocturne dust]

E z

[upper galleon]

God forbid people multiclass

[prime elk]

it's not 2x as fast lmfao

[patent mango]

it just breaks the flow entirely

[upper galleon]

In this game

Smh

[nocturne dust]

Time the push attack to heavy combo

Do it

[mossy oyster]

soykers when they have to melee

kek

[nocturne dust]

[radiant frigate]

but push attack combo good because you can spend 2 moves doing no damage vso your third can do slightly more than every other mk6 heavy

[nocturne dust]

Zealot logic

[patent mango]

all i do is melee lmao

[prime elk]

i did, and you're not getting 2 attacks in at that time lmao

[nocturne dust]

[broken carbon]

LMAO

[patent mango]

i think i'd just explode with mk8 pushing

with the peril lmao

[prime elk]

ok ngl that has happened to me before

tbf though, it was my 3rd time clutching in a single match

and i was just fucking done with it

[radiant frigate]

• if you're gonna pull the "but push is good cc" thing, i raise you "raw fgs special into heavy stab"

[patent mango]

idk when it gets to that point (teammates actually eeping) i usually jump off the map

[broken carbon]

psykers when they have to use multiple inputs

[patent mango]

idk if at least mk8 had 2 different heavies

[celest valve]

ok so.

Mk8:

Block:(instant)
Push(instant)
Pushattack(0.45s uh

ok force push code is confusing.

[celest valve]

they do

[patent mango]

im not counting the push attack one

oopsie

i mean the string

[broken carbon]

still does

[celest valve]

this is why some people (incorrectly) believe that mk8 heavy overheads do less damage

[broken carbon]

one is a higher cleave sweep

[prime elk]

that's pretty nice ngl

[broken carbon]

and then 2 overhead heavies

[patent mango]

fr?

[celest valve]

yeah

ya

[tender rapids]

Hey fellas. Anyone who can help me w havoc 35? Want the title 🤷🏽‍♂️

[patent mango]

is the sweep from running only

[celest valve]

45 degree sweep, similar damage profile/purpose as light attack 3-4

no

[broken carbon]

it’s why horde clear can either be light spam or light heavy alternating

or something like that

[celest valve]

just take the mk8, charge up the heavy swing

[broken carbon]

maybe heavy light repeating

[celest valve]

you have an animation like this

then h2 starts like this

[patent mango]

ig i gotta check it out a bit

[broken carbon]

it is

[celest valve]

and then h3 starts like this

h2 and h3 chain into each other

[radiant frigate]

bonk

[hearty wolf]

this one perfect stat wise ya?

[patent mango]

yea

[radiant frigate]

yes

very epic

[celest valve]

warp resistance too high, should be 0% /j

[hearty wolf]

Cool, 200k dockets, lets see how much mastery that gets me

[prime elk]

i would take a 0% warp resist if i could

[prime elk]

empower until everything but warp resist is maxed out

don't empower all the way

[nocturne dust]

Empower all the way

[tender rapids]

Hey, anyone who can help w the penance havoc 35?

[nocturne dust]

Imagine dumping more than you need to

[hearty wolf]

Unfortunately I have a disease that means it has to be max upgraded, even if I know it is worse

[prime elk]

it's actively beneficial to not empower all the way if you max out all other stats

[celest valve]

honestly it doesn't really matter too much if you have other ways of keeping peril high

[prime elk]

fair

[prime elk]

switching to assail takes too much work

[celest valve]

oh hey actually the mk8 has two sweep heavies

[broken carbon]

it’s only like 2 empowers to be at high peril even with 60%

[broken carbon]

the sprint sweep?

[celest valve]

nope

[prime elk]

i know, it def doesn't matter much

[celest valve]

well

yes but that's also the wield heavy lol

[broken carbon]

i thought that’s an overhead

a single target

how’s the cleave on it?

[celest valve]

same as h1

[broken carbon]

huh

neat

[hearty wolf]

We win

Now tell me blessings +perks

[celest valve]

so like sekret you can like uhhhh ok hold on

@hearty wolf so like go to the psykarium, and just do joyful hack and slash with the mk of your choice. Just. GLEEFUL MURDER

and try to keep peril as high as you can

and tell me how high you usually kept peril

[hearty wolf]

I have unfortunately ran out of dockets

So I am stuck with this for now

[fluid charm]

Question, in the psylot build is it vraks or columnus?

[hearty wolf]

vraks

[broken carbon]

i personally take precog riposte on my DD SG build

[celest valve]

well

perks for me at least are easy :p

[hearty wolf]

Wait I favourited the wrong one???

FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[nocturne dust]

wrath + shred

[celest valve]

you want to swap unstable power(i believe) for wrath if you are NOT good at keeping peril high with warp splitting.

[broken carbon]

wrath isn’t needed until high havocs, especially on mk8

[nocturne dust]

If you are good with warp splitting and maintaining peril, you can swap away from wrath

[nocturne dust]

Ugh, imagine using mk8

Dirty zealots giving bad psyker advice

[patent mango]

couldnt stab be on slide instead of push

[celest valve]

Wrath or warp splitting at high peril both results in like, based on psykarium tests with even low enemy density, 3 attacks to kill 6 hordepeeps vs 4.

[nocturne dust]

Yes

[celest valve]

no because mk8 can still stab like twice as fast as mk6 can

[nocturne dust]

FGS has the range to easily cleave 6

[nocturne dust]

You know what

[hearty wolf]

So tested mk8, I'm a fan. Lets hope to mk6

[nocturne dust]

I'm going to record the mk8 combo

and the mk6 combo

and frame-time it

Fug all u

[patent mango]

idk i can just do heavies on mk6 instead of push attack

[nocturne dust]

I have to get overlay software now for OBS tho 😭

[patent mango]

i entirely forgor h1 for mk8 was a sweep though

lmao

[celest valve]

(also this is why pushing first is superior)

[nocturne dust]

so you can explode?

[patent mango]

im not pushing first get out of my head

[celest valve]

wait until you learn mk6 optimal hordeclear requires push spam with as tight timing c:

[patent mango]

im not doing push spam on either one lmao

[celest valve]

also frankly the mk8 push timing optimal is actually kinda annoying

the mk6 might be nicer on fingers tho

btw this is what a single charge level 1 slash can do

[hearty wolf]

I've used both now.

[pulsar hull]

L class

[hearty wolf]

I honestly can't make up my mind. The mk6 swings feel a lot better than mk8 to me. Feel like they have more weight but I don't particularly like the thrusts.

mk8 looks cooler tho frfr

[zinc phoenix]

What about warp split + wrath, isn’t that even more cleavy goodness?

[celest valve]

if you need more cleave than wrath i don't know what to say, it is literally +200% cleave.

[zinc phoenix]

yes

[celest valve]

warp split does not exist

[patent mango]

more

[zinc phoenix]

I love diving into a mob21 horde with the mk8, max peril and wrath and absolutely obliterating it

[celest valve]

if you mean warp slice: look, warp slice will never amount to anything unless they let blazing spirit work with it, or they increase the finesse modifier

[patent mango]

what

[broken carbon]

wrath is 250%, isn’t it? i’m pretty sure the FGS has a unique wrath that’s 50% per stack

[celest valve]

no./

[broken carbon]

oh that might be relic blades

[zinc phoenix]

Idk why people don’t seem to want wrath on relic blade

[patent mango]

relic blade has silly blessings

[broken carbon]

yeah it’s just relic blade

[broken carbon]

relic blade? the cleave isn’t needed until high havocs

you cleave basically everything on relic blade default

[zinc phoenix]

Yeah but that’s where I’m using it

Le sigh

[broken carbon]

people usually take wrath there then

people that know what they’re doing

[zinc phoenix]

I would never claim to know what I’m doing

I just chop shit pop book stay alive

[celest valve]

anyway you can also do wrath + deflector which is pretty fun, it's especially good for a secondary weapon

[zinc phoenix]

Secondary fgs? Straight to jail

[patent mango]

riposte wrath 🔥

[hearty wolf]

I like both weapons but for different reasons

Please give me a mk3

[celest valve]

wrath alone makes it trivial for hordeclear

to charge it

[hearty wolf]

mk8 heavies feel much better to me but hordeclear feels meh

[celest valve]

even as a secondary

[celest valve]

you hordeclear with light attacks.

so like basically, once you get a certain amount of peril?

this happens

actually that's not peril I think that's L3 and l4 hmm

oooop ya

[celest valve]

ok so lets try a lil FUN EXPERIMENT. Slide into some flak enemies in the psykarium with the mk8, do a light attack, followed by a quick heavy attack then light attacks.

[hearty wolf]

No I mean literally the feeling of the weight of the blade - not the efficacy

[celest valve]

oh

[hearty wolf]

let me see

[celest valve]

dang hmmm there's still one horizontal swing instead of the high damage uppercuts

[hearty wolf]

I did

what have I learned

[celest valve]

well mostly a fun combo for diving into a bunch of gunners and living in STYLE

[hearty wolf]

I do like it

[celest valve]

the slide light attack into heavy attack is basically like high cleave high damage for not chaff

[hearty wolf]

I think I have decided

I think I prefer the mk6, even if the mk8 looks better

It's not by much though, like

[patent mango]

mk6 is so good

[hearty wolf]

They're both very nice

[celest valve]

also on sprints: you can heavy attack, then heavy attack for double sweep

but i don't know yet how to chain that

[celest valve]

so mk6 on the horde clear combo: hold block, tap left click, tap it again, then hold left click and unleash it as a heavy at the right timing

[hearty wolf]

H1H2 [LH] is a string I get after that

[hearty wolf]

Just a second

[celest valve]

LH?

[hearty wolf]

Light heavy alternate, on the mk8

After sprint

Unless you were talking about mk6

[celest valve]

oh on the mk8 i was talking about chaining the h1-like attacks yes

but sprint cancelling is funky

anyway yeah the combo i mentioned gets the only heavy side attack the mk6 has which hits hard

also the only horizontal light attack instead of diagonal

it's probably better vs chaff, while light attack spam is better for slightly tougher enemies and/or gunners

also WELCOME TO PSYKER you are going to have to hit every. single. head. :3

because if you don't. you will be sad.

[maiden oracle]

Is there any way to get rid of the mastery notification

[celest valve]

no, you have to suffer if you leveled electrostaff to 20

[maiden oracle]

It itches my brain in the wrong way

[hearty wolf]

Took me awhile to get what you meant, the result I have is a very slightly faster heavy attack coming out. Is that right?

[patent mango]

fatshark went eepy for now so no

it'll take a while

[hearty wolf]

Wait no

You said it was horde clea

[celest valve]

yes

[maiden oracle]

That’s rough

[celest valve]

you hold right click, and tap left click while releasing right click just after so you do the force grasp thing but no push

then you light attack to have their only purely horizontal light attack. Then you heavy attack from left to right in a very fast like 10 degree angle swipe.

[hearty wolf]

Yes alright, gotcha

You're describing this effectively

[celest valve]

ya

[hearty wolf]

Alright

Okay

Uhh

So I'll go fuck with mk6 in havoc once I have the dockets to get a proper one again since I upgraded the wrong one.

What else did I need to ask...

Oh

[celest valve]

you can do it slow until you get the hang of it, if you don't spam buttons you have like... a large amount of time

[hearty wolf]

Special attack mechanics

Charge is based of # of kills?

[celest valve]

kinda, body size

[nocturne dust]

Charge gains score based on type of kill

[hearty wolf]

Body size or hitmass?

[celest valve]

Generally, if you can't tag them, they're worth 1 point. If you can tag them and they're human sized, 2 points. Can tag them and they're ogryn sized, 4 points.

(don't know what monsters are )

[nocturne dust]

Bosses give an immediate charge

only 1 level tho

[celest valve]

it is 10 charges per level, 20 charges max

you lose exactly 1 charge for every 8.5 seconds you go without getting another charge

[hearty wolf]

That's pretty fucking good no????

Surely getting 20 charges in horde is giga easy

[nocturne dust]

It's okay

[hearty wolf]

Esp since 10 is supposed to be horde clear, 20 for elites

Does the special give a shit if you use it with a light or heavy?

[celest valve]

Only for the melee damage.

[nocturne dust]

Yesn't

[celest valve]

(which is comparable to an illisi slash)

[nocturne dust]

Yeah, it has melee damage and ranged damage

The melee damage cares about light/heavy

and also has infinite cleave

The ranged damage doesn't

[celest valve]

well, it is an illisi slash. :p

the force slash si technically melee, but it ignores all weapon stats and perks(with the exception of buffs I guess that are already active like strength)

Uncharged does 100 damage, 1 charge does 450, 2 charge does 850.

[strong gulch]

Love when my mouse decides it doesn't want to be contained by the game and I'm just sol lol

[celest valve]

Both the melee slash and the wind slash count as warp attacks.

(and will thusly stack warp based cycle buffs, not non-warp based)

[strong gulch]

@hearty wolf @nocturne dust My head is clear enough to play this game if y'all want to try for true survivor some more.

[celest valve]

(this means that, yes, if you ignore the charge mechanics entirely, you can just keep up 5 stacks of both warp and non-warp damage lol)

[nocturne dust]

Sure

[hearty wolf]

HOHO

[hearty wolf]

Unfortunately I only had time to test BFG today

[strong gulch]

Has it been brought up that it can save a dogged teammate through walls yet?

[strong gulch]

no prob

[celest valve]

oh yes it also seems to just ignore walls.

because psyker says fuck you to physics

[hearty wolf]

I don't think my gf appreciated me saying things like "DUDE THIS WEAPON IS SO GOOD" and "WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT RANGE" etc etc

While ignoring her the past 20 minutes

so here we are

[strong gulch]

oop

[hearty wolf]

But yes tomrrow I will be awake cos weekend

I am ready

[celest valve]

(well kinda, theres some weird logic behind it same as shout)

[strong gulch]

Tomorrow!

[celest valve]

but fi you can yell at a dog, you can wind slash it with your force katana

[hearty wolf]

Wait the WINDSLASH goes through walls?

I thought it was just the PA (the PA attack does right?)

[nocturne dust]

It has the same range but you can actually aim it

[celest valve]

PA?

[nocturne dust]

Yes, slash goes through walls https://youtu.be/v9iklHsHb58

[celest valve]

oh push attack

well

all melee attacks ignore walls FROM THE PLAYER soooooooo

[nocturne dust]

yes

[celest valve]

this can also break the sword even more because you can just hide in ludicrous places and kill infinite number of enemies without ever entering line of sight :v

[split lance]

[celest valve]

oh also dodges as far as I can tell can be done during like basically any animation and they ignore the weapon slowdown periods

[nocturne dust]

yes

[celest valve]

so you can 'wiggle' to fake out enemy AI a lot and basically have easy heavy and/or light attacks by timing them for those slowdown periods

this requires a lot of practice tho, especially to allow for dodge reset between them

but like ever wondered why the combat knife and dueling sword feels so ridiculously silly fast?

ya

[hearty wolf]

I don't see the big glowwy effect :(

But yes very cool. Also didn't seem to dissipate when hitting the captain's shield too? Does the warp slice go through Bulwarks then?

[nocturne dust]

Slice has infinite cleave

[hearty wolf]

I take that as a yes then cos Bulwarks have 100 hitmass on their shield or smth?

I didn't know if captains had a # to be able to penetrate their shield. I just took it to be infinity

[nocturne dust]

I believe it's normally a special interaction for the shield

but yes, it goes through shields

[hearty wolf]

I want to use it right now >:(

Also something that wasn't clarified

THe uh

The special doesn't build the special right on the warp element?

[potent echo]

ayo bigsword bistol assail 👐

[celest valve]

builds it on the melee component but not the wind slash

[hearty wolf]

Yeah I was gonna say, that'd be crazy

but I mean

Infinite cleave on that slice so

sjkghdsjkgn

[wet ferry]

is force greatsword at 79% finesse gonna be missing any breakpoints? upgraded this thing thinking it was a perfect one then realized after I dumped all the mats

[patent mango]

i doubt it'd change much of anything but its kinda annoying not being even number....

[celest valve]

also oh yeah you can slide after dodging

[nocturne dust]

It misses the breakpoint of the heart

[wet ferry]

yeah yknow screw this one, time to trash it and start over

[patent mango]

lol

[near hinge]

Anyone down to play with a new player https://discord.com/channels/727074276724965407/1042857061551190147

[maiden oracle]

Is there a mod to remove all the psyker effects on your screen

[prime elk]

there's a mod to remove screen effects generally

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/17?file_id=1219

[hearty wolf]

heretic

[nocturne dust]

blood for the blood god?

[celest valve]

lol @ base psyker stamina

[prime elk]

yeah i end up using takign a stam curio as a result :/

[maiden oracle]

Oh that’s useful thanks a bunch

[split lance]

It regens very quickly

[young cliff]

Still not remotely wanting to remove the many screen effects, they might be obstructive but I just don't mind them (plus it feels immersive)

[vagrant frigate]

everyone takes stamina curio

[split lance]

Who’s everyone

[maiden oracle]

I was thinking about running 2 toughness 1 stam

[split lance]

personally i run 2 tough 1 health

all have tough, health and CDR

[maiden oracle]

how much time does 3 cdr save

[celest valve]

push attack spam is hilarious

just 3 attacks a second

stab stab stab stab stab stab with a knife

[strong gulch]

I take a stam curio because I am bad at stam management.

[nocturne dust]

12% on a 30 second cooldown is 3.6 seconds

but note that it does not stack additively with other CDR

[maiden oracle]

Alright I’m just gonna run toughness gunner res and stamina regen

[nocturne dust]

don't run stamina regen on Psyker

[maiden oracle]

ah it already has high regen right

[nocturne dust]

Psyker has plenty of stamina with the short delay, plus KD filling in for blocking

[vagrant frigate]

everyone

anyone who is good

[vagrant frigate]

dont run gunner res, just slide

[maiden oracle]

lol

[split lance]

god i love when people give me an opportunity to be even more cocky

[vagrant frigate]

every class needs stamina +3

[split lance]

its fuels the fire inside

oh wait

[maiden oracle]

so hp toughness gunner res?

[split lance]

nvm

[nocturne dust]

false

[patent mango]

no

[split lance]

ur just a c tier troll

[vagrant frigate]

link me your true solo 3vegs

[split lance]

bait was almost believable

[nocturne dust]

I would run 1 hp, 2 toughness, 3 gunner res, and 3 whatever you feel like

[split lance]

i go outside, i have literally no idea what this means

[vagrant frigate]

stamina is the most important resource in the game at high skill

[patent mango]

bait

[vagrant frigate]

gunner res scales unfavorably

[maiden oracle]

not 3 toughness?

[nocturne dust]

no u

[vagrant frigate]

3 is not 60%

run one at max

[split lance]

wait hech

[vagrant frigate]

3 gunner res is 50% not 60%

[split lance]

so are you saying ur a top 1% player

[nocturne dust]

it's not additive but it still adds the same % of durability against them

[vagrant frigate]

2 tough 1 stamina is high skill meta

[nocturne dust]

actually I think it gets a little better with each res iirc

[vagrant frigate]

it scales multiplicatively

[nocturne dust]

Your bias is showing

[vagrant frigate]

3 of them is 50%

[maiden oracle]

nah i recall being told that the benefits get worse the more you stack gunner res

[vagrant frigate]

or like 51%

[maiden oracle]

i still run 3 anyways lmao

[vagrant frigate]

gunners arent a threat at high skill, especially on psyker

but by all means run 1 or 2

[nocturne dust]

right, but the amount of damage you take as a % of your stats gets exponentially better with each res

[vagrant frigate]

no they get worse

[split lance]

can u prove ur high skill

ur even cockier than me

and thats hard to beat

[maiden oracle]

i just miss twbs sometimes

[vagrant frigate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02xmqY7HlwE&

[maiden oracle]

when my toughness breaks and i get lit up i hate how it shakes the screen

[vagrant frigate]

world first btw

[maiden oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/minions-train-mind-the-gap-gif-13596253

he really did prove it

[vagrant frigate]

gunner res isnt bad if you arent used to playing around gunners

[split lance]

this is ur proof?

thats kinda funny ngl

[nocturne dust]

Right, the amount of damage they block gets worse but the amount of shots you can take gets better per

[vagrant frigate]

im not sure what youre trying to argue, it scales 20%, 36%, 51%

[nocturne dust]

I'm saying you survive exponentionally longer against gunners the more gunner res you have

[vagrant frigate]

dodge slide and run slide nonstop

and they cant hit you

[nocturne dust]

Despite it not blocking as much damage

because math

[vagrant frigate]

because math you should be taking +5% toughness instead

[nocturne dust]

Uh huh

[vagrant frigate]

stamina regen 3x
cooldown red 3x
toughness 3x

[nocturne dust]

Bruh 💀

It should be pretty obvious why the class with near-infinite stamina due to a short regen delay does not need stamina regen

[split lance]

taking stam is such a waste of a slot its almost funny

[vagrant frigate]

stamina is the most important resource in the game

[plucky flax]

I don't run stamina I'm too noob

[split lance]

fr

[nocturne dust]

And you have unlimited amounts of it on psyker

[vagrant frigate]

stamina regen has nothing to do with it, i understand its visually confusing

you regen it the same regardless of how many bars you can hold

[split lance]

how can i be good like you hech

[plucky flax]

Just run stamina lol

[vagrant frigate]

a +3 stamina curio is how you get "infinite stamina"

[plucky flax]

[celest valve]

today i noticed smacking people with axes coats axe in blood

[vagrant frigate]

2 bars means you get melted by a couple rager combos or a crusher/mauler side swipe

[strong gulch]

As a stam curio lover, I am not good at this game. Good players can run whatever they want and still live, solo, get top damage, do bananas tricks and what not. Stam is not going to make or break that.

I can see it helping, especially on non psyker classes. Stam just isn't a magic solve all.

[vagrant frigate]

its better to have 5 bars and enough regen so you never run out and die because of it

[split lance]

are you unable to dodge?

[nocturne dust]

bro never heard of kinetic deflection 💀

[vagrant frigate]

kinetic deflection is fine

[nocturne dust]

why are you in psyker chat

[split lance]

brother cant hit a/d and space at the same time

[plucky flax]

[vagrant frigate]

you have no reason to be so hostile

its not very nice

[nocturne dust]

🤷‍♂️ Sorry but I see people like you every day come in here and offer 'advice' and generally it doesn't read as anything more than insanity

[vagrant frigate]

i think you're confused about how the game is played at the highest level

every high skill player will tell you stamina tough tough curios

[nocturne dust]

See, you're being passive-aggressive and calling me out for being not nice

[split lance]

@nocturne dust is this how I sound

I sincerely apologize for my past behavior

[nocturne dust]

No, don't worry boo, you're way better. You actually listen.

[nocturne dust]

The only player that recommends this is you. You can't just appeal to popularity that doesn't exist.

[vagrant frigate]

im being passive aggresive?

[nocturne dust]

The normal recommendation I've seen is 1 health and 1 toughness, with the 3rd being extra toughness or stamina

[vagrant frigate]

ask any good players

dorn, dot, beef, tanner, etc.

i can go on and on

[nocturne dust]

Correct. Examine your own words instead of others for a moment.

[nocturne dust]

Uh huh

[vagrant frigate]

I've read ever message I have sent my friend

[plucky flax]

I need to get to their levels thanks.

[nocturne dust]

This argument is pointless, I don't think you'd ever listen and your only piece of evidence is 'all the good players say X' which is an appeal to authority and very shaky logic.

[vagrant frigate]

What do you want explained?

i can start with why running a health curio is bad

[nocturne dust]

Go ahead. Why do you think a health curio is bad?

[plucky flax]

So if I can clear havoc with health curio it means I handicap myself pog

[plucky flax]

Must be pro

[maiden oracle]

could i get a gunker build

[nocturne dust]

Funnily enough tho, I would argue it is not about what good players run but what bad players can get away with.

but that's a tangent

[vagrant frigate]

At 100% toughness, you have protection to your health from any one attack
Only yellow barrels, fall damage, and flamer explosions damage your health before toughness
(this is why toughness regen and toughness are so good)
health curio gives your more of a resource that doesnt replenish without a consumable.
having more toughness means you can take more "damage" before it starts chipping your health
Therefore, toughness curio actively helps you every instance of damage you take
Health only helps you when you break your toughness, which at that point, you're probably alreayd getting melted.

[plucky flax]

[nocturne dust]

Incorrect. A wide variety of attacks will bleed through toughness. Snipers, overheads, poxbursters.

[vagrant frigate]

What on earth are you talking about

snipers BREAK your toughness

[nocturne dust]

Yes.

[vagrant frigate]

crushers BREAK yoru toughness

boxburters BREAK yoru toughness

they dont "bleed through"

[plucky flax]

I did tru duo with the legend dotnl himself not running stam curios and using 2 hp curios

[vagrant frigate]

they do because you dont have enouigh toughness to compensate

[nocturne dust]

That is what bleed through means.

[vagrant frigate]

@plucky flax swag

No dead...

bleed through is when you are below 100% toughness

[nocturne dust]

and you can't get consistently enough toughness on Psyker to take a poxburster to the face.

[plucky flax]

I am not a pro tho

[vagrant frigate]

if have 50% toughness takes 20 damage then 10 go to heatlh and 10 go to toughness

[nocturne dust]

You're just using terminology differently. This is purely semantics.

[vagrant frigate]

shove it?

[plucky flax]

[nocturne dust]

And if we never made mistakes, we would not need defense

Toughness? Dumb

Health? Dumb

[celest valve]

....did you know the heavy sword special has a special crit animation?

[nocturne dust]

Just don't take damage

[celest valve]

did you know that all of their attacks have a special crit animation?

[vagrant frigate]

explain how health curio protects you from bursters

snipers

or overheads

[nocturne dust]

It lets you take more of them before dying

Would that not be obvious?

[vagrant frigate]

DONT GET OVERHEAD?

DONT BLOW UP?

oh my god

you know what

take whatever you want

you cant live an overhead anyways

holy shit

[celest valve]

oh yeah just. just don't get hit at all. just don't take toughness damage ever. that's even better

[vagrant frigate]

im saying dont take an overhead

[nocturne dust]

You actually can not only live through an overhead, but even build so that it doesn't break your toughness on Psyker

which is funny meme

but not practical

[vagrant frigate]

@nocturne dust you know what, play however you want

what difficulty you running just curious

[nocturne dust]

Sure, don't ever take damage

[nocturne dust]

Havoc 40

[vagrant frigate]

an overhead is not "damage" gamer

[nocturne dust]

Bruh, don't try to gatekeep me

[vagrant frigate]

strawman btw

[maiden oracle]

anyone play candy crush and dont mind lending me some lives i ran out but i dont want to just sit and spectate

[nocturne dust]

Asking about difficulty I run is indeed a strawman

[vagrant frigate]

this is a strawman

[nocturne dust]

It's not

[vagrant frigate]

asking what difficulty you run is not a strawman

[maiden oracle]

what is a strawman

[vagrant frigate]

saying "you believe that because this" is a strawman

i was just asking as an aside

[nocturne dust]

You're saying 'don't take X hit' which isn't practical

Practically speaking, you will make mistakes

you will get overheaded. You will get sniped. You will get poxburstered.

[vagrant frigate]

Realistically speaking, if you get overhead YOU DIE

okay and

i get overheaded too

everyoen does

health curio doesnt change that

[nocturne dust]

And surviving those mistakes is a whole lot better than not.

[vagrant frigate]

the point of the game is to NOT take damage

[split lance]

WAIT

[vagrant frigate]

but you WILL

[verbal thistle]

take a wound curio if you are going to get overheaded

[nocturne dust]

It does change getting sniped and burstered

[vagrant frigate]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mr void

i give up

[split lance]

tanner lindberg moved on to this game

[vagrant frigate]

i concede

im not dictating how you play

[split lance]

i remember him having "beef" with GazTV

[vagrant frigate]

which beef

beef or beef

[split lance]

so he stopped playing warframe

[nocturne dust]

I'm not saying you are

[split lance]

that was so long ago

[vagrant frigate]

um

im not gonna argue anymore

[nocturne dust]

I'm saying you, in your scenario here, is saying 'not to take damage' when asking why we shouldn't run health

That is not a good reason to not run health

[split lance]

Tbf you obviously have no idea what ur on about anyway

Broken Key wont even type

sucks being bad ig

[verbal thistle]

we're too busy laughing

[celest valve]

i mean if you like... can take an overhead without losing toughness

that's even better vs much harder to avoid sources of damage for non psykers like ranged attacks

[vagrant frigate]

@nocturne dust if you want me to explain anything about the game i will gladly do it in voice chat

i am not gonna type no more

[nocturne dust]

Yes, but that was a tangent cuz I get distracted easily and isn't something you can easily do

[nocturne dust]

Lmao, no, I prefer typing.

[vagrant frigate]

its hard to convey tonality over text

[nocturne dust]

Even if I had the ability to use mic, which I don't 😔

[vagrant frigate]

okay then can i at least speak and you type?

i genuinely wanna explain some of this

but i dont think words are doing it justice

especially when its hard to convey tone

[nocturne dust]

I dunno mahn, I really don't see how tone would change the evidence I asked for why you think health curios are bad and your reply was to not take damage from the things that make health curios not bad.

[vagrant frigate]

@nocturne dust join strike party 1

cmon

[lucid terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

[split lance]

smartest random

can you do the super emoji thing pls

[nocturne dust]

Fine but I feel like I'm about to get jumped in an alley or something

Sure, let's go over health curios

[split lance]

ill protect you pookie

@wet quiver super react it pls

[celest valve]

201 heaaaalth

or something

[split lance]

reg reacts are cringe

[celest valve]

that's what i remember

[nocturne dust]

I'm aware of all these aspects. The issue with stacking all toughness is it doesn't really help after a certain point? Like, if your toughness never breaks unless you get hit by snipers and bursters, what is the benefit of stacking more toughness?

[thorn cedar]

less damage from bleedthrough

[hearty wolf]

I just read all of the above

This made my night

[zinc phoenix]

Ima try this, it’s an interesting concept I haven’t seen much. I do agree that I can afford to lose some tough and the biggest thing I feel like kills me (other than the usual skill issue deaths like ledge, overhead, reaper blob on elevator exit when solo) is stam loss. I’d previously been running tough x3 with tough/health/cdr for the slots but idk that 15% health changed anything. Game kinda feels like alive or dead not tanking, at least with psyker. + I saw a psyker who ran for forever in a havoc 40. His damage output sucked because he was memein with combat shotty but he literally couldn’t be caught. So ima try this

[thorn cedar]

swap the stam regen for sprint eff if u genuinely want to never be caught

[zinc phoenix]

I’m tempted af

[thorn cedar]

psyker doesnt really need either tbh, i still run sprint eff anyway since most of our weapons have comically low stamina

[nocturne dust]

I mean, I dunno, I just don't get hit in those scenarios where toughness amount would matter (ignoring ranged for just a moment). I generally only take a single hit, and even then only because I'm surprised by an opponent. As a psyker you just have so many ways to actively tell enemies no. Like, I get your point for non-psykers, but psyker has a lot of tools to make enemies not attack.

[zinc phoenix]

That’s the thing isn’t it

We have a ton of tools to just not be hit

[thorn cedar]

stam regen seems wasted since it's just 1 stam/s regen to 1.3 stam/s regen, when really its the 0.5ms delay that makes psyker stamina so readily available

(and also KD)

[zinc phoenix]

So the remaining stuff that kills us is stuff we can’t get distance enough to avoid, positioning errors and the inevitable Darktide says no

[nocturne dust]

This is true, without any toughness you get destroyed. But I don't need more toughness, and I don't see experienced psykers needing to stack that much toughness, because you can always just swap to melee and block with KD or stagger on Psyker and other such tools Psyker has.

[zinc phoenix]

Right so I can see tough tough stam curios

[hearty wolf]

Well that was a pointless conversation

It all goes back to

It doesn't matter

havoc 40 is too easy

[zinc phoenix]

I don’t think losing 17% toughness and 15% health will change my passive defense much but I think more stam and stam regen will change my active defense some

Or sprint eff, I’ll try both

[severe folio]

anything new

[zinc phoenix]

With a good group and some planning yeah it’s effortless

[hearty wolf]

Who gives a shit if you have 9 million stamina or 9 million toughness when you have chorus toughness 24/7 and you don't need to expend any stamina when purgatus is mowing everything down

[zinc phoenix]

I’m more interested in situations where the group would have succeeded if I had done something slightly better

Than in the ones where I just build thru the difficulty

[hearty wolf]

Game just has different rulesets based on how you're playing.

If your in pugs, it's probably more likely that you will use more stamina and you're get more milege out of it due to disorganisation of the group

Semantics either way

Move on

I go find food

[thorn cedar]

at H40 im running all HP for Psyker cause our toughness is pathetic

[zinc phoenix]

a lot of mid 20s havoc difficulty is compensating for usually execrable teammates with insane builds and no idea how to play

At 40, it’s getting people to execute the needed roles

Because they have the skill, they’re just too arrogant to play the meta lol

[thorn cedar]

you cant really expect to absord more than one hit at a time without gold touhness so i just dont bother

[hearty wolf]

I don't think you need to play meta at all for Havoc

[nocturne dust]

I get what you're saying. I just don't know players that can successfully keep free of things that can break toughness like bursters, especially when it's silent or other shenanigans are happening, but I do know players that can almost indefinitely keep free of ragers/gunners/shooters/etc. all the things toughness helps with, especially because of that first hit.

[hearty wolf]

It's just a matter of, how far off meta can you go before you have to begin adapting in stranger ways

[thorn cedar]

i think the present meta also just plain sucks

[modest perch]

For psyker/in havoc or in general ?

[zinc phoenix]

Sure I totally agree, I just also know that most people even at h40 don’t have the skill to play off meta

[thorn cedar]

Havocs in general but especially for Psykers

[zinc phoenix]

And my experience in plenty of h40 teams has shown that in spades

[thorn cedar]

Bubbles, Smites, and Purgas, all very boring

[modest perch]

Oh yea it’s super lame

[zinc phoenix]

I do blast instead of purge because crusher blobs are more likely to wipe you than hordes

But otherwise yeah

[hearty wolf]

Agree but I think that's where people minmax the fun out of the game

You don't need to do that

[thorn cedar]

that's why its the meta yes

[hearty wolf]

Yeah, point taken

It's just, something is always gonna be meta. And just by virtue of it being meta, it's going to become repetitive and thus boring y'know? (DS4, DS4, DS4, DS4, DS4, DS4, DS4)

Like I think the first days of havoc were most exciting cos it was a shakeup to the usual.

I also feel like (maybe this is darktide specific?) but people don't experiment enough outside of the meta

[nocturne dust]

I think that's a matter of different philosophies then, cuz I definitely prepare for bad scenarios even if they rarely happen. I'm going to take KD every time specifically because of how it can get you out of those situations.

[thorn cedar]

people are risk adverse and uncreative

[umbral steppe]

Man.

I dunno if I like Agile all that much on DS.

[thorn cedar]

weve also already been here. These were the same statements and meta people stated were mandatory to succeed at Maelstroms when they originally launched

[nocturne dust]

No, I know why wound curios suck, lol

[umbral steppe]

I ain't feeling that 10% weakspot damage all too much.

[hearty wolf]

For context, I have 196h logged on Darktide which is nothing compared to most people in this server but I feel like people really are slaves to meta and can't be creative for the life of them.

Inserting "this good player does this so it must be good and the only way to play the game" isn't a valid argument

( @vagrant frigate just want to clarify that this ISN'T what you were saying, it's the more extreme version. I'm just pointing it out because I find there are people that live or die based off what some other players say. Which kills build diversity. And also the fun of the game)

[hearty wolf]

Pretty much spot on with different philosophies

[nocturne dust]

So, would you run stamina if you were running KD?

[umbral steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/exploding-cat-cat-blowing-up-cat-explosion-gif-6096353006687676670

[clear heath]

KD with stamina is so excessive for blocking, idk what i'd ever need it for

[runic juniper]

unironically run crystaline will on havoc 30+

[clear heath]

If there was a really low base stamina weapon with really bad innate block efficiency, maybe

but i can't think of anything

[umbral steppe]

I would run it on everything but a Venting Shriek Build.

[thorn cedar]

all my Zealot havoc wins used The Master's Retribution, therefore it is mandatory and meta

[nocturne dust]

Yeah, I agree, lacking stamina is often death. I find KD to be plenty for blocking with ER, though, and then you really only get running out of stamina.

[runic juniper]

nah, only havocs, every other situation is a skill issue that you can laugh off as your team falls apart without you carrying them

[nocturne dust]

I've run +3. I normally run it on non-staff builds or when I take Devil's Claw for parry memes.

[umbral steppe]

Holy man.

Auric is so fucking hard.

I have been on a 10+ loosing streak.

I am so bad, lmao.

[vagrant frigate]

its poorly designed dw

[hearty wolf]

Maybe try something a tad easier before escalating the difficulty?

[vagrant frigate]

its difficulty in the wrong ways

[runic juniper]

It doesn't help that people who quickplay that on the weekend are also much worse

[nocturne dust]

I've not really tried the mk6 knife. I mostly just use the mk3 on psyker to run around for staff mobility.

[umbral steppe]

Ohhhhh, I see.

[hollow current]

He's havoc 40 ready.

[umbral steppe]

But it's alos on me as well.

[runic juniper]

auric is fine difficulty, havoc just forces meta cheese

[zinc phoenix]

I constantly experiment. Right now I’m messing with a warp slice spam thing I think is very fun

Being able to crit virtually at will with a ranged stagger is hilariously effective for getting on top of gunners

[fathom adder]

The more you punish losing, the more you punish experimenting. Previously it was the gear system and now it's Havoc progression (and in both cases, time)

[zinc phoenix]

Because you get ee proc, mettle proc, all the other goodies

[nocturne dust]

I don't know if there's anything else.

[hearty wolf]

Would you say havoc is punishing when losing?

I don't think I would.

[nocturne dust]

Oh yeah, why do you want stamina regen

[zinc phoenix]

For the host it can be

I deranked twice

I was salty

I’m back at 40 now 😂

[hearty wolf]

3 chances to do a single mission, and if you do derank, you can just do someone else's 40. I think that's fair?

[zinc phoenix]

It’s not as bad as losing elo in an actually competitive game tho

[clear heath]

Just win once at 40 for the week and then you can throw all your matches after

[hearty wolf]

Worst case you just win another

[runic juniper]

the fact that people only play it to rank up most of the time makes losing havoc a bigger waste of a time than losing an exceptionally long auric maelstrom mission

[clear heath]

it's kinda annoying for testing stuff though

especially since we can't test havoc stuff in psykanium yet

[fathom adder]

Hosts have extra incentive to enforce meta among the people who join them

[hearty wolf]

I also don't consider havoc rewards to even be real in the first place so if I deranked to 0, I don't think I'd care?

I frame it as "Oh hey cool, some extra shit that I don't need!"

[zinc phoenix]

It’s really more about the incredibly minor bragging rights of being at 40 at every week end

Right from the start 😂

[hearty wolf]

That's a good point. Very valid.

So there's some blame on FS (it's really hard to make a game mode that's harder without creating a meta)

but it's also on the players for being mind controlled to pursue a meta.

[nocturne dust]

That feels like pushing into stamina a bit too much, but I guess I haven't tried such a stamina heavy combo recently. Would probably feel better in Havoc.

[hearty wolf]

Maybe the team system in general is flawed and it should be MM.

But at the same time, I've made more friends playing Havoc than I did maelstrom

[runic juniper]

deranking and being able to rank back up from 0 to 40 in 1 game is stupid. Fatshark realized a ranking system would suck midway through design and decided to keep half of it in

[celest valve]

anyway force sword mk8: the first heavy(and sprint heavy) is 'heavy_linesman', while heavy 2 and 3 is 'heavy_smiter'

[zinc phoenix]

I haven’t friended anyone, they’re all single serving as far as I’m concerned

[hearty wolf]

Tbh with the way we play together, you literally never need stamina.

Even when I left you alone for 120s+, you were fine

If you can hold your own for 120s without stamina, it's going to be pretty situational for when you do need it

Really you just need a curio that gives you +crashing resistance

[nocturne dust]

This is true, I have mastered the art of not caring about stamina

[hearty wolf]

+no lag

[celest valve]

and the cleave properties of those are "large_cleave" which i am unsure how much cleave that is

[runic juniper]

toughness curios become good when your yellow toughness generators die

but are kinda useless before that happens

[zinc phoenix]

Precisely large amounts

[hearty wolf]

Aw :(

[fathom adder]

There will always be a meta but the better the game is balanced, the wider and more variety it has (which is my go-to answer when someone asks why balance matters in a PvE game)

I wouldnt say players are "mind controlled" to pursue meta but it's pretty well established that people hate losing more than they like winning, so it follows they'd rather win in an "unfun" way (e.g. mindless adherence to meta) than lose while experimenting

[zinc phoenix]

The only time I’ve felt bad experimenting was when I flubbed two runs as vet with agent as host

But that was because I knew man was pushing for week one 40

[umbral steppe]

Here's me current build.

[zinc phoenix]

I have quibble (you should take kinetic deflection) but it’s otherwise fine

[vagrant frigate]

take quietude

[umbral steppe]

Oh wait, I do have that.

My bad.

[vagrant frigate]

not warp expentiture

[umbral steppe]

Don't have weapons/Curious shown yet cuz I don't have them fully built yet.

[zinc phoenix]

Yeah there’s that too

[zinc phoenix]

Quietude is very good, warp expenditure I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest

[hearty wolf]

Also fully agree with that.

In some sense, the lack of player skill is also a contributing factor.

Devs do have a duty to protect players from themselves.

I think the point we were originally discussing was "the more you punish losing, the more you punish experimenting"

Which you say Havoc is, based on people disliking to lose. (You said progression but imo that's nonexistent)

People not liking to lose = they crutch on meta = it's a problem that feeds into itself.

The point of experimenting isn't to win, it's to learn.

If that made no sense, sos. Is 4:15am xd

[umbral steppe]

May I ask why?

[nocturne dust]

Anyway, I kinda have to run now @vagrant frigate Thx for the explanations, I'll probably examine them a bit more closely in the coming days or something. 👋

[zinc phoenix]

You get virtually unlimited blocking power and blocking is extremely important for not dying

It’s worth giving up some warp charge goodies for that

[celest valve]

for thrust and heavy attacks in general you are supposed to hold a heavy charge for 3 seconds before launched automatically right?

[zinc phoenix]

I thought you mostly wanted to hold heavies for the min time possible unless you had a compelling reason

[umbral steppe]

Why not have Brain Burst however, when survivability delays the inevitable when instead I can 2/shot important elites/specialists.

[zinc phoenix]

Do you know which one kinetic deflection is?

[celest valve]

well yes, if you hold down the button for more than 0.2s but less than 1.5s you release a heavy at the shortest possible time

[umbral steppe]

The shield/barrier, yes?

[zinc phoenix]

It’s at the top of the bottom right part that leads to DD

No not the shield

Also BB and shield can be taken together

[umbral steppe]

Oh yeah, that one.

Isn't blocking just bad though? Like dodging is much more preferred.

[clear heath]

It's mainly just for surprise rager packs

[hearty wolf]

Also what if dodge runs out?

[umbral steppe]

Hence why I have Agile, plus stam Curios.

[clear heath]

also some boss attacks

[umbral steppe]

I see.

[clear heath]

realistically you can push anything smaller than a rager anyways so it's only really relevant for ragers and bosses
But ragers appear at bad times often enough that for 1 point it's worth it

[umbral steppe]

What would I remove then?

From my build.

[hearty wolf]

Your use case will be slightly more diminished by agile but you're using a blessing when you could have another. Not bad - it's just a choice that you've made.

Also sometimes just buying time can help your team save you (also helps build peril so you can go big BRR)

[clear heath]

From this, i'd probably just give up the 6 warp charges thing, especially for a shriek build

If you're shrieking as often as you should be, reaching 6 charges isn't really that common

[ocean cipher]

what fun soulblaze builds are there

i wanna light the world on fire

[celest valve]

which is the bad blaze sword btw

[clear heath]

Also i'd probably swap this but it doesn't really matter i guess

[lethal lagoon]

Obscruos. I guess the Illy isn't that useful nowadays either.

[celest valve]

eh it's still useful for soulbazing

[lethal lagoon]

That's literally the worst use case for it.

It's functionally pointless.

[clear heath]

Illisi is still really nice for being a fast weapon with an actually usable warp special

for malefic momentum builds

[umbral steppe]

I just don't want to reduce quell speed.

I wanna stay at high Peril.

[ocean cipher]

wait is this funny soublaze build

what weapons are u using with it? im literally looking for a build like that rn

[celest valve]

ok so like swordy thingie. forcey swordy

heavy attacks: LMB held down for more than 0.2s but less than 1.5s

(automatically released after 1.5s, apparently?)

[umbral steppe]

Oh yeah, any opinions on this?

[umbral steppe]

Sounds about right.

[celest valve]

Push: literally just lmb pressed while rmb is held

push_follow_up aka push attack: lmb is held along with rmb for more than 0.25s

[zinc phoenix]

blocking with peril means your stam management can be much sloppier/mobility higher without real cost defensively. ofc youd prefer to dodge but you cant always dodge everything (for example stuck in the middle of a horde) and being able to block -> push attack indefinitely w/o worrying about crappy psyker stam is a huge boon

[nocturne dust]

My results show that FGS mk6's heavy spam combo does indeed have slightly better single target than push spam stab from mk8

To clarify, the numbers before the empty line are from before I started counting by frames, and the bottom two are non-crit weakspot hits on a Bonbon from a FGS with +unyielding

[analog agate]

I didn’t even know that the single target dps was in contention. Just zealots dick riding paradise in mk8 doing more damage with one hit

[buoyant maple]

All 3 are fine now
Obscurus actually quite good after the moveset change

H1 + L2 (+ L3) loop for single target

L1 + [H1 + L0] loop for horde clear

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1185515538475134998/1315586614495547485/lol.mp4?ex=6757f303&is=6756a183&hm=0fbea70325e78a350fcb6db2feab58f353799df47e58cb19627b1a99848ac81d&

[nocturne dust]

There were a few claiming the mk8 actually had better single target because of how quick the push is before the stab

[analog agate]

Ah

[nocturne dust]

I did this testing out of pure spite

[buoyant maple]

What about breakpoints

[nocturne dust]

Mmmmmmm that's much harder because then I have to test against multiple targets and also buffs and als-

[buoyant maple]

Yea so

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/gato-explosion-gif-7563607804576630642

[buoyant maple]

Mk6 has a mathematical 4% lead in single target DPS under ideal conditions

While having potentially worse breakpoints against a variety of enemies

[nocturne dust]

I mean, FGS heavies murder most non-ogryns in single hits

[buoyant maple]

I haven’t done thorough testing with FGS breakpoints but I know mk8 can 2 tap crusher with PA follow heavy stab crit + heavy overhead

Not sure if mk6 can do that

I’m also unsure if mk8 PA follow stab is “higher base damage” or “higher finesse but scaling from the same base damage”

At least me personally, if there’s only a 4% difference in mathematical DPS but there could be breakpoint differences, I wouldn’t rush to conclusions in saying the higher dps one as the better single target option

[nocturne dust]

I mean, you also get the stab after the slice from mk6

[buoyant maple]

Yea, that one is around 200 less damage

I’m not sure if that’s 200 less because it has lower finesse than mk8’s stab

Or it’s flat out lower base damage

[celest valve]

were these done with a maxed out sword, and were you actually releasing the stab fast enough

[fathom adder]

I guess my point is that some proportion of people would rather win than learn, and greater incentives for winning / greater disincentives for losing raise that proportion—even if the rewards are little more than ego or prestige (which count for more than you may think)

[nocturne dust]

yes and yes

[buoyant maple]

But usually 200 less damage is not a “small number” and can lead to breakpoint differences

[nocturne dust]

I was releasing them early sometimes Didn't count those ones, obviously

[prime elk]

wonder how much worse the horde dps is

it's gotta be quite a bit worse

[buoyant maple]

Especially for a weapon that has generally slow attack speed I’d say breakpoints matter more than raw dps number

[buoyant maple]

I haven’t bothered to check because Obscurus is just insane now

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/894568981946576916.gif?size=48&name=FloppaShake&quality=lossless

[clear heath]

Special -> stab is one of the bigger reasons I prefer mk6

[nocturne dust]

This isn't true without buffs

my +carapace sword cannot do that

[maiden oracle]

What is obscurus

[buoyant maple]

PA follow heav stab with Crit weakspot on carapace was something like 2.54k damage

[nocturne dust]

Mine is not that high

Mine is 1873 with +carapace

[clear heath]

Is the crusher not gonna die in 3 hits with the same setup on mk6? You're basically using 3 hits worth of time anyways since you needed to pushattack first

[buoyant maple]

Then the question is, is Mk6’s H2 stab so much more damage than mk8’s overhead loop that it ends up being better in breakpoints

[clear heath]

The way i see it, mk8 combo of using pushattack into stab is basically the same concept of using thrust blessing, except you have more safety of having the push come during the prep time

[buoyant maple]

If we’re to write off mk8’s PA follow

[clear heath]

You're using extra prep time for 1 big attack

it's basically thrust

[prime elk]

it's pretty nice against bulwarks

whereas mk6 has a better combo against rager

[nocturne dust]

you can just push the bulwarks with the mk6 still

[prime elk]

(though one that's also doable with mk8 under right circumstances, it's just that mk6 is easier to reach the breakpoint with)

[prime elk]

no shit lol

[clear heath]

My question is if the mk8 stab is so much more powerful that it ends up being better than just doing an extra hit during the time the pushattack would take

Like you've advocated against thrust in the past, i don't see why you would ignore this

Pushing takes time

[prime elk]

i assume that's what deadvoid was testing

[nocturne dust]

Basically

[buoyant maple]

Yea ik
I think there’s enough merit to the high stagger push that it can be more useful against enemies you ideally want to stagger and zone out first

[zinc phoenix]

I just like the mk8 moveset more 🤷‍♀️

[nocturne dust]

I like the mk6 moveset more

[clear heath]

tbh I haven't bothered with exact breakpoints because of how havoc has been and how annoying testing it would be

I just care about how much dps overall

[zinc phoenix]

I think moveset preference matters more than incredibly minor dps variance

[nocturne dust]

Yeah, I'm not going to test Havoc BPs until someone makes a mod to let me apply Havoc modifiers in the psykhanium

or Fatshark does themselves

[zinc phoenix]

Very understandable

[buoyant maple]

Havoc BP is easy, u just do maths

[nocturne dust]

Ew

[clear heath]

Even if i had an easy way of testing it, it might be irrelevant anyways due to the hp pool they have.
Killing shit takes a while and ends up being a team effort. Usually someone will have hit the thing you're trying to kill

they aren't at max hp like basically ever

this is like testing boss breakpoints

[buoyant maple]

No, you can already figure out exact health number of every enemy in havoc

[clear heath]

very pointless

[buoyant maple]

It’s not nearly as high as bosses

[prime elk]

honestly the fact that we have so many arguments over mk6 / mk8 here tells me they're both pretty close (with mk8 in the lead )

[nocturne dust]

me when the DoT class that applies soulblaze to everything doesn't care about BPs

[clear heath]

Like realistically i'm not hitting a full hp crusher
I'm hitting a crusher that has been grazed by some other aoe shit, while getting some random assortment of buffs

The amount of hits it has taken to kill a crusher in practice has been very inconsistent in havoc

i'm not gonna count this shit

[zinc phoenix]

Yeah, I agree

Breakpoint math is gamer astrology is my usual take 😂

[clear heath]

I think wanting the safety of having a stagger before your big attack is a valid reason to prefer whatever mark you want

It'll come to preference whether you want a big stab after a single targe shove or if you're okay with blowing your special and building peril before a slightly weaker stab

[nocturne dust]

Sir, this is the Imperium, we're required to be vitriolic and hate the other

[clear heath]

in my case, i actually want the peril and i tend use the special a lot anyways

[analog agate]

The PA has been a detriment for me too. Rager makes his way to front of horde. I push attack… he gets pushed too far and my stab happens on a poxwalker and rager is back up. Has happened to me quite often with other enemies too

[fathom adder]

Depends heavily on the game. I remember when Payday 2 had 40 damage (actually 39 point something) be some kind of breakpoint against almost every enemy in the game

[buoyant maple]

@nocturne dust what blessings do u run for FGS

[nocturne dust]

shred + wrath