psyker-class

[steel pawn]

So what's the expected behavior between Warp Unbound and Smite?

[thorn cedar]

it's janky as fuck right now

[steel pawn]

It should cause you to not explode, and then at 10 seconds explode?

[thorn cedar]

so we cant precisely say

[steel flame]

its bugged at the moment but yes you should in a perfect world be able to smite at 100 peril for 10 seconds

[steel pawn]

How is it bugged?

[steel flame]

you can boom

[thorn cedar]

geez where to begin

[steel pawn]

So, I'm not booming. Even... after unbound is over.

[thorn cedar]

well yes, first you can sometimes still boom, which is very rare and i believe that interaction takes VERY precise timing

[steel pawn]

That seems... off.

[thorn cedar]

i have yet to replicate it consistently

[steel flame]

its because smite has an in built 100% peril safety stop and it gets fucky with warp unbound

[thorn cedar]

if you're smiting with Scriers active when it hits 100% it will sometimes still end your Smite and you have to cast it again. Sometimes it will not end your Smite but your tethers will all break so it will still 'reset'. Sometimes it does neither of these things.

Once you hit 100% you're absolutely safe to use it.

[steel pawn]

I'll just chalk it up to the warp. Chaos reigns!

[thorn cedar]

There's this really specific window where you are ramping to 100% and you preemptively start up a Smite right click where it will just fuck you

Just don't take chances during that window

Let it hit 100% and then do it

[steel flame]

from what i can tell the smite safety stop auto quell overrides scriers depending on how the game is feeling and poof no more scriers

[thorn cedar]

If you aren't already in a channel

[barren pine]

can i get a solid scriers gaze voidstrike build per chanmce

[sturdy reef]

this is my only gripe with scriers

they fix this and I'll always use it

[thorn cedar]

Might be a really difficult fix

tbh I think they should go the other way with it

if you right click smite that high you should always explode lmao

[sturdy reef]

lol

[thorn cedar]

Smite is already such a fucken freebie

[sturdy reef]

but it is present with staves and warp unbound as well

[thorn cedar]

you have to actively force yourself to perils with it

[sturdy reef]

I havent triggered the bug with inferno staff

but the others its not that hard to do

also with assail and smite

[steel flame]

this is what SHOULD happen with scriers smite https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/j4D8dV64fN7gX9Ic0?invite=cr-MSxNM0QsMjUyNjQ3MjMwLA

alas

game gets confused in actual matches

[sturdy reef]

• gets warp unbound
• blows up anyway
• how could FS do this
  

[steel pawn]

QA: "How long is a bug a bug before it's expected behavior?" 🤣

[nocturne dust]

The attack speed is eh. Can be useful, can not be. The important one is Warp Splitting though, it affects Voidstrike.

[steel flame]

i miss in built deflector on force swords 😭

[nocturne dust]

It should still be a thing. It's dumb that it's not.

[tired estuary]

it's expected behaviour unless it's removed/nerfed

then it's unintended behaviour

[steel flame]

it could be expected behavior for two years till fatshark suddenly decides its a bug, im looking at you silent specialists

[steel pawn]

May my smite be guarded against malfunction, as my soul is guarded from impurity. Machine God watch over this cast, lest I explode... prematurely.

[nocturne dust]

Ragers not screaming like plague monks is a bug 😤

[steel flame]

truth

[sturdy reef]

silent mauler and crusher packs

[thorn cedar]

these three nodes are super stinky and i wanna talk shit about em

fuck u shit ass -5% peril nodes

unironically would prefer they were suppression

[nocturne dust]

Eh, they're whatever. I'd rather they do something with the actual blue nodes that are crap

like mind in motion, unlucky for some, perilous assault

[thorn cedar]

mind in motion is legit

yall are just too slow for its greatness

[nocturne dust]

[jovial juniper]

[thorn cedar]

unlucky for some got buffed actually

still shit but i mean

they know something's up lmao

[jovial juniper]

They made it 100 lmao

[nocturne dust]

imagine if it instantly gave 100 yellow toughness

[thorn cedar]

i really do stand by mind in motion tho

i use it

[nocturne dust]

Literally just slide or dodge

[thorn cedar]

i am not joking that its good, but its only good if you're WAAAAAAY into move speed in your tree

[nocturne dust]

Faster, no talent required

[nocturne dust]

So it's trash

[jovial juniper]

Oh add Purloin to those useless nodes

[nocturne dust]

I mean I specified blue

otherwise there's quite a few bad purple nodes

[lunar totem]

psyker has the most confusing looking tree

[paper harbor]

Try reach specific nodes from top to bottom start and either left to bottom or top to left.

You can go here ask the nodes

(Jeez they need update the guide)

[analog agate]

Nodes you always take

[nocturne dust]

Except those times you don't take PC... or mettle/perfect timing

[analog agate]

Never those times

[nocturne dust]

Could I introduce you to Scrierstrike

[analog agate]

And you are getting to scriers how?

[nocturne dust]

Welcome to a build so point-strapped you have to take BM

[analog agate]

Thats uh. Interesting

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-laugh-laugh-laughing-willem-dafoe-evil-gif-4145161

[orchid ibex]

Not playing by the rules I see

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/the-only-sensible-way-to-live-in-this-world-without-rules-joker-gif-15660424

[hushed egret]

been loving this build. it's so fast paced, every tool has very important roles in the build, yet none are single sided or otherwise spammy, and it's so skill intensive. really makes my brain happy

[nocturne dust]

wha-

[digital hill]

I love it.

[nocturne dust]

I hate it.

[digital hill]

He took all the rules, broke them, and remade them into a sword.

My kind of psyker.

[hushed egret]

what did you see?

[nocturne dust]

The build.

[digital hill]

https://tenor.com/view/meteion-suffering-agony-ffxiv-finalfantasy-why-despair-gif-17723369351547423862

[hushed egret]

what part?

or the whole thing?

[nocturne dust]

Yes.

For one, some of the talent choices are just 🤮

[hushed egret]

do elaborate

[digital hill]

Im sus of the staff talents, but I have yet to use them lol

[nocturne dust]

Solidity is a lot better than Puppet Master

like a lot

[hushed egret]

the damage primary can do now is ridiculous

[nocturne dust]

You also take anticipation and abandon KD

[hushed egret]

I'm not really manually quelling so I'll take more leniency in my distance from teammates, especially with hiw fragile this build is

[dense valley]

bro this tree looks so bad

[nocturne dust]

I mean yes, but that's why I hate the build

It makes a lot of nonsense choices

Just to nerf down and buff up things to the point where you would need to be actively switching between weapons

[hushed egret]

KD isnt important. very strong for sure, but with so much shock available and better dodges, not much point in blocking anything

[nocturne dust]

Lemme just barrel you into the DH real quick

[hushed egret]

that 5% crit is really nice though. not necessary, but nice

[hushed egret]

so your defense of KD is a niche enemy you'll rarely see, and almost never fight, and if you're playing well shouldnt be targeting you?

[dense valley]

cmon man why would u path all the way to warp siphon and left out the best node

[nocturne dust]

My defense of KD is it saves you when things go real bad

[hushed egret]

I grabbed it for cooldown. I have plenty of damage, those warp charges will hardly even be present with my ability spam. I originally didnt even have a keystone

[nocturne dust]

Surrounded in a mixed horde? KD. Need to move past a dozen ragers? KD. Need to get off a revive? KD.

[hushed egret]

that's what smite and anticipation are for here
I'm not saying KD isnt amazing for those everything is fucked situations, but I have tools for those already

[thorn cedar]

Anticipation is shockingly bad unfortunately. Otherwise I take no issue tbh

[dense valley]

I think dome is like the least effective psyker ability to spam

[nocturne dust]

Smite won't save you if the ragers are on top of you

Anticipation is just 1 extra dodge 🤷‍♂️

[hushed egret]

all those can be solved by the combination of smite, dome, and actually just the entire toolkit lol

[dense valley]

wym 1 more dodge on staff is amazing

[hushed egret]

surge staff will buy me the space to do so

[nocturne dust]

Well, actually, all things can be solved by smite so I don't see your point

[thorn cedar]

with the build too youre probably already moving too fast for most melee to hit you anyway due to mettle and left clicks

emphatic evasion takes care of ranged

id just change anticipation over to One With the Warp

thats it

[hushed egret]

generally true. but 1: I fucking despise gunners, and 2: my toughness generation is exceedingly bad, so dome is almost my best toughness generation

[analog agate]

Oh look at that. A smite/dome user

[hushed egret]

I suppose so, if you're patient. but it isnt a smite build. smite is there for when me or my team need more space and control of the situation

[nocturne dust]

Sure, and you've taken very odd choices to ensure you have to constantly switch between things. You specialized tools that aren't that specialized, lol.

[hushed egret]

not spamming smite and dome is actually here for toughness gen more than anti-gunner, but I also hate gunners.... and also the other abilities were pointless for this build

[nocturne dust]

You're allowed to like what you like, but I hate what you like and I'm allowed that too.

[hushed egret]

I'm not trying to take that from you

[analog agate]

You got a build. That’s for sure

[nocturne dust]

It is one of the buildiest builds of all builds.

[hushed egret]

constantly switching wasnt entirely the point, but it's very nice that I'm asked to do so. spammy builds arent nearly as fun. but each tool is quite specialized, none of them overlap. save for being able to zap in two ways, but one is very much not meant for crowd control and the other is

[nocturne dust]

wat was the point then

[hushed egret]

the starting point was just a build for making use of the new primary fire skills
the rest was to support that in various ways. build is crit based, and is very fragile. so I took skills to help alleviate that fragility as needed. high damage was a focus, but I have that. only reason I really skipped more damage was because the damage output is already really good, and breakpoints wouldnt really change even if I did invest in more damage, plus the remaining damage skills have more niche uptime I dont personally like playing around

[nocturne dust]

I mean, lmb spam is a build that exists

and is not whatever... that thing you posted is.

[hushed egret]

well it's not just lmb spam, since the new staff skills inherently ask you to use secondary as well to get the most out of your finger guns

[nocturne dust]

lmb spam makes use of rmb for crushers

[hushed egret]

well this one makes use of it for everything since it increases my damage output on lmb for everything. "anti crusher" is a niche, and ultimately that playstyle you suggest would just make it spammy again, defeating the whole point of the build

there's certainly points in that tree I could easily sacrifice and invest elsewhere for different strengths and playstyles, but I like the general versatility and reliability if what I have. it may not be meta, but it's still really damn good, and it's certainly fun

[nocturne dust]

but you just said the point was to make use of 2 nodes, not to avoid spamming

[hushed egret]

well the point of those two nodes is to avoid spamming

[nocturne dust]

N-no

Literally one of the nodes is all about spamming

[hushed egret]

this is a ranged staff build first and foremost

[hushed egret]

one of those nodes is all about using secondary before primary and going back again. the other just encourages you to use primary fire a lot by making it more powerful, but so does the other one that asks you to use secondary first. which is also why it's a zap staff build, cause the secondary charge time is so short that I can focus more on primary. that in and of itself though is so single target that it inevitably asks you to use your other weapons whether you build for it solely or not

[nocturne dust]

Or, you know, the classic and meta option of soulblaze

[hushed egret]

which soulblaze one? there's a lot of builds you can describe as "soulblaze"

[nocturne dust]

wdym, there's like one that literally all staves except voidstrike use

Shriek + warp charges + psykinetics

[hushed egret]

that one then, gotcha

so you mean the one all about spamming shriek?

[nocturne dust]

wat other soulblaze build is there?

PC and wildfire are used in conjunction with shriek

[hushed egret]

flame staff, blaze trauma, you coukd theoretically do a finger gun blaze build or a melee blaze one but those arent meta, uh.... I feel like there's another but that's what I can think of off the top of my head

[nocturne dust]

Both of those staves use the same build

Ilissi blaze is a meme.

[hushed egret]

neither staff has to use that build, and blazing shriek on flame staff is pointless when you can put enemies at max stacks without a cooldown

[nocturne dust]

No staff has to use anything so I fail to see your point

[hushed egret]

smite build with blaze shriek. that's what I was missing

[nocturne dust]

wat

wait

did you just-

For one, Flame staff only goes to 15, 16 on a crit

not the 30 shriek goes to

[hushed egret]

well you said "both staves use the same build" soooooo you suggested they were tied to the same build lol

[nocturne dust]

The same meta build, yes

🤷‍♂️

[digital hill]

https://tenor.com/view/princessbride-pirateroberts-gif-18580956

Oh sorry, this isn't about swords. Carry on.

[hushed egret]

we were talking about blaze builds, not meta builds. and you're the one who suggested I was talking about a build when I said "flame staff" you dont need a build for soulblaze when you grab that, it does it for you

[nocturne dust]

also, for two, shriek goes a lot farther than inferno, and staggers a lot more

[hushed egret]

not that you'll reach 30, and not that you need to go above 15 for really any reason except maybe boss damage? which isnt really flame staffs specialty to my knowledge

[nocturne dust]

🤷‍♂️ This is a meaningless tangent. Yes, I was wrong to insinuate meta builds were the only builds, my bad.

[hushed egret]

true but you have primary fire for the stagger, and it still goes plenty far

[nocturne dust]

and ogryns, and again, range

and also shriek is an instant +6

which is the important bit

more fire good

[hushed egret]

the ogryns will die quick anyways. possibly before you max out their stacks anyways

and if somethings our of range of staff but in range if shriek, you're only giving it, was it 6 stacks?

[nocturne dust]

That kills shooters and snipers

even if it doesn't kill, it does mean 6 stacks when they get in range which is a significant portion of the cooking you have to do with inferno

[hushed egret]

oh neet. you could also run them down easily with the flame staff in your hand or bring the crystal blitz forgot the name or even shield

[nocturne dust]

I see you've listened to nothing I've said

[hushed egret]

your teammates can probably handle ranged enemies farther than you can anyways, and you'll want to play corners regardless

[hushed egret]

how have I not?

[nocturne dust]

We both know you shouldn't rely on teammates

[hushed egret]

honestly you really can in auric

[nocturne dust]

You tell me how it's bad to have an ability that wipes an entire direction of threat

[hushed egret]

I didnt say that

[nocturne dust]

Then why are you acting like Shriek isn't useful?

'just use the staff'

[hushed egret]

I said you dont need shriek to do that, especially if you want it done faster

[hushed egret]

I'm not

[nocturne dust]

uh no, shriek is faster

wtf you mean

[hushed egret]

I'm saying the blaze part specifically isnt very useful when you have a literal flame staff in your hand

[nocturne dust]

an instant 6 is a lot faster than a ticking 6, no matter the tick duration

especially at the shriek's range

and even better, you can fire and forget while dealing with an entirely different direction using your staff

[hushed egret]

damage over time is slower than chucking a crystal, and in higher enemy priority cases might even be slower than literally running up to then with your sword (if that were an option). plus if six is enough to kill them, a brain burst on an elite gunner will handle most of the work for you as well, no cooldown needed

[digital hill]

Sword is always an option.

[nocturne dust]

The crystal doesn't wipe an infinite number of enemies

[hushed egret]

also flame staff doesnt really need peril quelling either so shriek itself isnt that important on flame staff either

[nocturne dust]

also the crystal has travel time

and is, in fact, slower

brain burst is too

[hushed egret]

good thing there wont be an infinute number of gunners just outside flame staff or sprinting range

[nocturne dust]

BB charge time is either way too high or you dedicate too much of your build to it

[nocturne dust]

Stop strawmanning

[ornate hamlet]

can anyone explain to me the malleus monstronum penance ?

[hushed egret]

not slower than damage over time alone lol. the blaze part of bb (the skill at the top for blaze on elite kill), sure, slower than 6, but it'll do well enough and kill the elites specifically faster

[nocturne dust]

It takes a few seconds for 6 stacks of soulblaze to kill chaff, which is indeed faster than killing an elite with soulblaze and then waiting for the chaff to die from 3 stacks (they won't)

[hushed egret]

not strawmanning, just pointing out both how niche your suggested situation is and how many other ways you coukd deal with it without flame shriek

[nocturne dust]

soulblaze time is, unsurprisingly, better than BB + soulblaze time

[nocturne dust]

But I'm not suggesting that situation

Infinite enemies includes the horde

Fire and forget, as I said

[hushed egret]

the chaff wont die from that one alone, but it'll be close. one more elite and it's done. and importantly, this isnt an entire ability cast that also costs your warp charges, it's just a single passive and your blitz

[nocturne dust]

Actually, I'm just going to leave. If you somehow think Shriek isn't the most valuable ability on Psyker, you do you.

[hushed egret]

gonna kill them slowly enough that it wont be forget. and you have a flame staff that can kill that horde more effectively than blaze shriek, and specifically excels at horde clear

[hushed egret]

it's an amazing ability

but on flame staff? it's not really able to do its job when you have a flame staff

you already do all the soulblaze, lots of suppression, good stagger and crowd clear, all on a primary weapon. why spend an amazing cooldown slot to do what your staff already does, but a little bit better? basically a waste

[nocturne dust]

Just try it.

[hushed egret]

already have. doesnt add much when you could have the stun shield so you dont have to primary fire for reliable stagger

even if you're right, it's a spammy build
bout as spammy as it can get

[nocturne dust]

I never made any comments about spam. Who cares? You can play your very strange way if you like.

[strong gulch]

You need to do at least 50% of damage to a monster with BB / BR (brain burst / brain rupture; left blitz) in a private match. Private matches can only be done with a minimum of 2 players.

[hushed egret]

I know you didnt, I was just adding that as a reason I dont like it. plus we started this arguement over a build designed to not spam

[hushed egret]

thanks for helping them. I forgot during the arguement, I sorry rando

[barren pine]

anybody got a meta surge electro staff build i could look at

[nocturne dust]

so lmb spam?

[barren pine]

yee

its harder to find psyker builds than any other

[tacit stump]

maybe by gameslantern

[nocturne dust]

Gameslantern has a lot of bad builds

[barren pine]

indeed it does

[tacit stump]

huh i never used it for builds

i do my own thing

[nocturne dust]

Most of the upvoted builds are bad

Well, not bad persay, just make quite a few questionable choices

[tacit stump]

psyker athaneum are there builds?

[nocturne dust]

The Psyker guide also has builds. Those are known to be questionable as well.

[tacit stump]

...

[barren pine]

those builds look pretty bad from my limited psyker knowledge

[nocturne dust]

lol

[tacit stump]

so if you want to play psyker just do your own stuff huh

[nocturne dust]

🤷‍♂️

I mean Psyker generally just works

[barren pine]

im learning psyker tree doesnt has nearly as a clearly defined meta as the other 3 classes

[nocturne dust]

as long as you go down the tree

[tacit stump]

don't your mind be shackled by the thoughts of others and unleash your tru potential

[barren pine]

which is probalby good

[strong gulch]

Mostly ask here in discord for the meta one until you can craft one that suits your needs, wants, and ability.

[nocturne dust]

also you can switch for smite, woops

[barren pine]

was gonna sak

as

ask

[tacit stump]

so long he does not smite 24/7

[strong gulch]

The Atheneum's build's used to be better. Still not the end all be all, but they have taken a turn. I think some of the thought process is on boarding newer players who are learning the basic things of the games or don't have muscle memory or a feel for things.

[barren pine]

is quell speed the dump on electro?

[strong gulch]

Which I can see that, but also just give the new players the good stuff.

[nocturne dust]

no

[strong gulch]

warp resist

[nocturne dust]

Warp res is dump on every staff except Voidstrike, which dumps blast radius

[barren pine]

Mr. E did me dirty again then

[nocturne dust]

Lawd, don't listen to the youtubers

[barren pine]

generally dont but i dont knwo much about psyker yet

[tacit stump]

i didn't yet build perfect staves play to much other classes cause weapon leveling...

[vestal arrow]

I don't understand warp resistance lol, you get so many benefits from having high peril, why would I ever want less?

[nocturne dust]

Believe it or not, ER is meta

because quelling

and you can edge

[tacit stump]

ER?

[nocturne dust]

Empyric Resolve

Warp res is a dump just because it's like if ER gave you -5% peril gen

which you will notice you can get from the tree on tiny nodes

[tacit stump]

i use er on most of my builds 40% is neat no wonder you don't res on staffs anymore

[vestal arrow]

I don't get it, why would I want less peril and less toughness? It's good to have both of those right?

[nocturne dust]

It's good to have toughness, but ER notably affects toughness generation

It's bad too have too much peril, i.e. spend too much time quelling.

ER helps you to quell less.

[vestal arrow]

maybe. I don't use ER and it feels like I don't quell very often anyway

just press F right?

[nocturne dust]

and ER's negative, toughness generation, is very noticeable but also something you can work around. On auric, you either have enough time to regenerate or you're going to be taking a ton of damage anyway (because generation only really helps if you get hit in rapid succession, and generally you're going to have a bad time if that happens often on auric regardless of ER)

[nocturne dust]

Inferno is the only staff where ER isn't as straightforwardly good.

[tacit stump]

er works on blitz and gaze aswell right

[nocturne dust]

all peril gen, yes

force swords too

and even kinetic deflection

[tacit stump]

wasn't to sure but had a feeling

hope we get some weapons next update

[nocturne dust]

iirc, one of their teasers mentioned psychic powers channeling through a knife or something

well, one of their written thingies, not a teaser teaser

[tacit stump]

so just a force dagger

[nocturne dust]

yeh

[tacit stump]

hoope we get a illisi version which can cleave like crazy

[nocturne dust]

I would prefer a great deal other weapons that get 'Force' added to it, but eh, I'd be grateful for any exclusive psyker weapons.

[tacit stump]

normal dagger problem is hordeclear and likely it gonna work with soulblaze instead of bleed

[nocturne dust]

Honestly that'd be super neat if it avoids the Illisi issue

[tacit stump]

i don't want deimos/obscurus special on dagger would feel weird

because of the low range

[nocturne dust]

Yeah, I've had enough of charge specials

[tacit stump]

you can instead do a force strike with your offhand of something

[tacit stump]

the reason i don't like the chain axe and chain sword in this game

evicerator still hits hard

[barren pine]

hardest thing to get use to on psyker is the squish

[nocturne dust]

UNLIMITED PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER!

itty bitty healthbar space

[tacit stump]

can we get recoil damage on force weapon block depending on peril

[nocturne dust]

hm? No?

[haughty star]

Crazy toughness regen tho. Nothings better than taking a beating from some trash shooters and refilling toughness from throwing some funny darts

[nocturne dust]

Overheads go through all blocks except parry/shield on Ogryn tho

[tacit stump]

i mean like enemies eat our peril and take through this damage

[nocturne dust]

Devil's Claw parry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jd_cVHxR3E

[dull scroll]

Fatshark at it again

[nocturne dust]

Don't worry, Devil's Claw literally has nothing else

[barren pine]

are you just spamming special as fast a s you can]

[nocturne dust]

Yes

[barren pine]

hot

[nocturne dust]

It's funny but not worth much, actually

Like, almost any ranged weapon deals with ragers and the parry is a lot slower than anything else against anything else. Devil's Claw has 1 trick.

[dull scroll]

That's not nothing; you just downed 5 ragers at melee in a matter of seconds without losing a single point of toughness

Looks to me like somebody can bind special to an autoclick macro and become an instant anime protagonist

Fatshark at it again

[nocturne dust]

Sure, or you can just down them at range 🤷‍♂️

[strong gulch]

EP smite downing 60 ragers in 8 seconds 😭

[tacit stump]

i have special on side mouse button

[strong gulch]

SAME

[digital hill]

My sword suddenly feels inadequate.

[strong gulch]

WAIT no. I have ability there. My special is C. lol

[tacit stump]

which one do you use

dementus

ability is on f and blitz on y by me and i use qwertz layout

[strong gulch]

Ability on mouse 3. Blitz on MM scroll down. F is interact.

[tacit stump]

mmscroll for button ...

[strong gulch]

ye

[tacit stump]

the only button which belongs there is weapon scrolling

and sniper zoom levels

[strong gulch]

Weapons swap is Q for melee and tab for ranged.

[tacit stump]

spams v to swap rapidly between meele and range

[strong gulch]

Muh brain can't register. Too fast.

[obsidian ivy]

Warp Nexus or Penetrating Flame with Purge Staff?

[strong gulch]

nexus + blaze away

[obsidian ivy]

Is it better to have crit than Brittleness?

[dull scroll]

purge staff is a team flash bang

[tacit stump]

how does blaze away work on a staff

[strong gulch]

Yes.

[obsidian ivy]

Spam fire primary to max out stacks, use secondary to max it out real quick

[strong gulch]

Spam LMB / primary or it just builds up quickly on charge.

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/todd-howard-it-just-works-bethesda-this-all-just-works-gif-20598651

[strong gulch]

Crits apply another stack of SB (soulblaze) on crit.

[tacit stump]

i mean it has no ammo thats why i am confused

[obsidian ivy]

Dw I was too

Then I used it in testing place and found out WHY

[strong gulch]

Penetrating flames does help, but it doesn't beat nexus + blase away. However, if you don't edge your peril or care about crit maxing, pen flames + blaze away is fine. Pen flames is not the meta choice.

Not every build has to be meta tho.

[nocturne dust]

Lies and deception

You must be max meta all the time or Khorne will be mad

[strong gulch]

Meta max or else.

[dull scroll]

Khorn is already furious you are playing a psyker

[slender coyote]

any of u seen the new modifier on cladestium gloriana yet?

[tacit stump]

khorn despises magic

[nocturne dust]

god made by magic despises magic

it's okay, I know many who have daddy and mommy issues

[obsidian ivy]

Yeah

It's was PAIN

Saw pox gas on rolling steel too

Shoulda taken a ss

[tacit stump]

new modifier with pox gas nuurgle says hello twice

[slender coyote]

oof haven't found one yet and been looking forward to it on that map

[nocturne dust]

The game the moment I decide to not take a boss killer build in quickplay:

[tacit stump]

th stealth zealot say hello

[radiant frigate]

i would prefer if he said goodbye

[tacit stump]

try to punsh one of his beasts

[late sapphire]

if you get hit by a rager outside of the parry attack angle it keeps attacking and you get your ass beat if you're not maneuvering

[nocturne dust]

There is no parry attack angle

It works from any angle, just like blocking

unless you mean the angle of the actual parry's stab, but like... just press parry again?

They changed it so that it'll still block any attack damage even after the parry during the parry attack animation, so it really is just as simple as pressing parry until you win (or run out of stamina)

[tacit stump]

yeah the blocks after the initial parry need stamina

[nocturne dust]

which is why it goes on Psyker with the KD gaming

[tacit stump]

is funny when you onehit ragers with deimos or duellist and i have a 3 stam curio on psyker

[late sapphire]

Wow...

Back in MY day the swipe had to stagger the rager or the 2nd hit in the attack would still smack you

[radiant frigate]

back in MY day attempting to parry crusher overheads was ruined by a random poxwalker triggering your parry 0.2s before overhead impact

[wind spruce]

Isn't that still the case?

[radiant frigate]

the parry has a lingering block now so you should not be turned into paste

[wind spruce]

But isn't it a "normal" block instead of a parry? I assumed the crusher would flatten you

[radiant frigate]

i assumed it is a lingering block of parry quality

i have not attempted this

as i do not play dclaw

[wind spruce]

Interesting

Neither haha

[nocturne dust]

I do

I dunno tho

All I can say is I've yet to be downed in melee against overheads

as long as I don't run out of stam + peril 😅

[ivory path]

Just now bothering to learn how armor systems in this work. Didnt realize it was broken down by limbs/extremities. Where exactly is the damage from trauma secondary supposed to be inflicted?

[dense valley]

probably feet

[rigid sky]

I heard torso but I might be wrong. Flak is the one which is usually referred to as being most necessary for the 3 non-precision staffs.

I know inferno and electro hit torsos but not sure for certain about voidblast

[ivory path]

I had mine on Flak, just swapped it to carapace for this auric maelstrom because basically every enemy was either a mauler or a crusher. Now learning that the maulers is flak everywhere except its head.

[jovial juniper]

Lower legs take half of the ranged damage
So it would be more safer to say Center Mass

[rigid sky]

That's a really important case to figure out! Many weapons kill them faster in the body

[ivory path]

yeah flak seems all round better

[jovial juniper]

Just need to confirm with a Reaper

[rigid sky]

Except for high Finesse weapons which have strong Carapace damage

[jovial juniper]

Reapers Torso are flak but center mass is unyielding

[rigid sky]

Like the duelling Sword, voidstrike, etc.

[tacit stump]

deimos force sword

[rigid sky]

Love me deimos

The slower pokes just makes it feel rude

[ivory path]

I normally bust out the DS for ~1-3 Crushers/Maulers. But I was using some MMO rule of thumb and going with AoE attacks for groups larger. Higher overall dps.

[tacit stump]

push crushers to the ground

[ivory path]

actually I wonder what the lucky number is for this. Like in FFXIV you swap to AoE for pulls 3 or larger.

[tacit stump]

lululu i spin my axe over my head

[ivory path]

blm aoe is so garbage

literally dont even use high fire anymore

just transpose flare, flare, flarestar

[tacit stump]

i was warrior main when i played ff14

[ivory path]

Warrior has become my preferred tank, but I think all the tanks have too many buttons

[tacit stump]

generally the button bloat in ff14

[ivory path]

Tanks are the worst offenders IMO. Need role abilities removed and their power incorporated into class abilities.

[tacit stump]

i ask how the warrior would taunt as a classkill does he curse like a pirate at the enemy

[rigid sky]

I swapped from BLM to PCT for this expansion

Absolutely love it even if it is easier

Just shitting out 250k+ nukes

I love the design of the motif system, even if it is problematic as hell

[ivory path]

Im loyal to my black mages. Black solidarity.

[rigid sky]

I still enjoy BLM when I do play it

[ivory path]

One day YoshiP will put us back at the top where we belong (huffs copium)

[rigid sky]

But I was playing it since HW

Through the bad-BLM metas and the good

[tacit stump]

i only lv blm didn't like it prefer red-mage

[rigid sky]

VPR is shit though

Boring bare-bones basic bullshit

Dancer yet somehow more braindead

[tacit stump]

you mean the new meele dps who shares armor with nin

[rigid sky]

Yeah

Follow the shiny! -the class.

The rashad combat axe of FFXIV.

[late sapphire]

#1 most fun thing

#2 is when you try to dodge a trappers net but a groaner materializes directly next to you

[rigid sky]

And it's the only incap you get all game, and the moment it happens you get zero further inputs (due to no rescue) until the team wipe 3 minutes later

[leaden thicket]

Hello, I've just returned to the game after a long time and would appreciate some help getting my bearings

[fluid thistle]

the shooty end of the bolt pistol points towards heretics

((welcome back))

[fluid thistle]

canonically yes

[dense valley]

lol this guy is warp tainted

[ornate hamlet]

He has seen too much Gmod

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-40k-psyker-explode-perils-gif-10586129510772702813

[echo root]

Source Engine moment

[ornate hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/valve-valve-guy-half-life-half-life2-portal-gif-24740578

[jovial juniper]

Bruh

Lmao

[paper harbor]

that's psyker speaking vietnamese oh you means the purple head

[wintry niche]

Do the stats of enemies change according to difficulty? Or just how much the ai director throws at you?

[haughty star]

yes enemies are tougher at higher levels

that's why psykaneum has a difficulty setting

[radiant frigate]

oh hell yeah

similar for dodging overheads

[wintry niche]

Lol first time 4, insta team wipe

[tacit stump]

i gonna steal your texture

[ornate hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-mod-whale-the-whale-fraiser-camera-gif-3764417687302677901

Gm fellow Psycher Staff Macro users

[orchid ibex]

So why does Rashad seem to get a little hate sometimes?

[jovial juniper]

Too good

A properly built Rashad will insta kill 4 lesser enemies every swing

Shits on Ragers

Safe against maulers and crushers

[ornate hamlet]

It’s best to use unarmored/ infested due to the 1hit potential on groaners with brutal momentum right?

[orchid ibex]

I've never noticed it being that good. Its good, but ds seems stronger to me

[ornate hamlet]

Dueling sword is Meta yea

[jovial juniper]

Except DS can't kill 4 enemies at once

[spice veldt]

rashad is more generalist

[jovial juniper]

Don't use infested
Not really worth it

Unarmored is good though

Sure the Rashad has low attack speed

I understand if you don't like it

But as long as you aim for the head Brutal Momentum will compensate

[orchid ibex]

Ds still dunks on the most dangerous melee enemies pretty effortlessly but it doesn't seem to get the same hate

[spice veldt]

i'm pretty sure it does get some hate

i'm seeing a lot of sentiment for it to be nerfed nowadays

[jovial juniper]

Oh it absolutely does

[orchid ibex]

Maybe I've just missed those conversations

[wintry niche]

Hell yeah Heresy done, wasn't that hard.... lol

Just more careful pushing

[jovial juniper]

Well
DS kills problematic enemies, doesn't struggle with hordes but also isn't good against hordes
Rashad kills problematic enemies and hordes

[orchid ibex]

Rashad doesn't just melt carapace in the same way though

[jovial juniper]

Now that's not really true because of builds and shit like that

Vets casually one shotting crushers with a Rashad just because

[orchid ibex]

You can melt carapace with a ds and a blank skill tree

I do understand your point though

[jovial juniper]

Now that's not really true because you deal like 600 damage to cara weakspot

With a DS

Listen
The Rashad kills everything on a short time because brutal momentum is fair and balanced
The DS can deal tons of damage but won't kill everything on a short time

[ornate hamlet]

Well the DS is ment to be anti armor only but precognition is too busted of a blessing it kills everything with it

[orchid ibex]

Look, I hate the ds for the purest of reasons. I hate the aesthetics/logic behind a little needle sword being an anti armor weapon.

[ornate hamlet]

Irl we have the rapier

Technically similar in function

[orchid ibex]

Those weapons are not for armor

[ornate hamlet]

But irl shouldn’t equate to balance then again, there is no fun without liberties or even a bit of experimentation

[jovial juniper]

Oh did I mention that you can just light attack your way through missions with the Rashad?

[ornate hamlet]

If you mean damaging armor then yeah it won’t

[orchid ibex]

You found a small exception but they're not talking about heavy ass armor like that

[ornate hamlet]

But if you’re against a heavily armored opponent you study their openings on their outer plates

Like a turtle shell

And you thrust in those points to do damage

[late sapphire]

precog isn't that busted

[ornate hamlet]

60% on dodging

[late sapphire]

no

60% finesse

[ornate hamlet]

That’s what I just said

[late sapphire]

that's about 30% actual damage on weakspot or crits

[ornate hamlet]

So 30% multiplied by another 30%

I don’t see your argument

[late sapphire]

it's base damage + finesse bonus * finesse multiplier

precog takes you from 600 to 800 crusher weakspoint damage on a gray wep with a blank tree

[orchid ibex]

Or hit them anywhere with a mace

[ornate hamlet]

Who is running grey weapons

[late sapphire]

???

[ornate hamlet]

Gotta go shock mauler

STOP RESISTING

[late sapphire]

Are you trolling

[ornate hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/roblox-qwerty-qwerty-roblox-qwerty-roblox-police-qwerty-roblox-dahood-qwerty-dahood-gif-17762990842357072745

[ornate hamlet]

Dude I’m busy I don’t pay attention that much

Why assume the worst out of people

[jovial juniper]

🙋‍♂️

[ornate hamlet]

Damn

[jovial juniper]

Talentless grey run is pain

[late sapphire]

gray wep with precog on it somehow lel

with 'on a gray weapon blank tree' i mean no other bonuses or buffs

[ornate hamlet]

I got my psycher build finessed as all heck and it’s doinky

[late sapphire]

iirc precog stacks additively with other finesse bonuses like dd and sg so it's even less impactful then

[ornate hamlet]

My staff meta build and my purgatus build

[ornate hamlet]

But vet even has finesse bonus damage for melee weapons if you choose the perk

[late sapphire]

Yeah

[ornate hamlet]

And Crit chance per dodge stacking 5 times

Just the blessing itself is too good not to run

[late sapphire]

It's ok

Just saying the 60% is misleading

Just like how uncannys 120% is

[ornate hamlet]

I swapped even bleeding on Crit to something else like uncanny for no reason and can just sweep enemies easier since my vet isn’t melee focused

Like lots of blessings do entail on what you are running as a build, but precog is too good not to run

I would run that and swap out my cleave in a heart beat if they got that blessing

[ornate hamlet]

For my devil claw

[late sapphire]

Not even on what you are running

On the weapon itself

uncanny does way more on combat knife than on dueling sword cause ds has better armor pen by default and so on

[prime elk]

hey it takes like three hits under most circumstances

[gusty sapphire]

why tf is a vet even meleeing a crusher anyway

i just disintegrate their head with a plasma gun

or tase them with the shock maul so a teammate can get the kill

[jovial juniper]

It's because vets are surprisingly good at melee

[prime elk]

because it can, and melee vet is super powerful

[jovial juniper]

[prime elk]

vet isn't a ranged class, it's a hybrid

[raven mountain]

Honestly, I'd like to see Thrust get rending associated with it, and for the weapon's general strength against carapace be nerfed. (Leaving the modified thrust around a similar power level as now)

Take the time to focus, build your power, and strike the right point. Just going pft pft pft casually a few times and melting a crusher with no investment just feels wrong. I kinda liked the way that THammer required activating and charging to smash a crusher's head. It feels really bad to be in the middle of that process and watch a zealot dash through and pop 2 of them in the time it took you to charge the swing.

I talked on a reddit post that I also wish the weapon had even more abysmal horde clear than it currently does, along with slight nerfs to non-weakpoint damage. Have the weapon be more specialized and less of an all-round pick would make its (currently excessive) strength feel more justified. Then if you take it, you have to make up for dealing with hordes somewhere else or risk being run over in a mixed horde. Right now, the scariest thing the weapon faces is like a train of ragers, and that's mostly a spacing and stagger problem. (Or I guess monsters, but it's pretty alright damage if you keep plugging away at weakpoints)

[gusty sapphire]

shit
i wouldnt know

my class is a hybrid squad lead/marksman because i didnt look anything up when building it

just went off gut instinct like “yeah i think this works”

[raven mountain]

Completely this. Even before they had the dueling sword, they had options to deal with crushers in melee. Now they just got access to the (currently) best melee option.

[gusty sapphire]

and it does!

[late sapphire]

All in all you end up cucking psyker out of a weapon

[raven mountain]

I mean, it's a weapon problem at the end of the day

[prime elk]

DS should've stayed on psyker

[late sapphire]

Melee psyker with a ds was balanced because psyker doesn't have the stuff for melee

[prime elk]

you can't change my mind

[gusty sapphire]

DS 100% shouldve been psyker only

[raven mountain]

The role-focusing I'm talking about doesn't really cuck psykers. They have access to movespeed and damage through scrier's and they already often take it primarily to deal with armor. It becomes slightly more skill-focused, wanting to pop heads only, and slightly more thematic, lining up the headshots.

It doesn't suddenly become unusable for psykers (or anyone)

[late sapphire]

How about a blessing that makes 'weakspots' pop up on armor dd style and if you poke em you deal unmitigated damage

[raven mountain]

That'd be pretty cool, but also more involved than a tweak to some numbers.

But I also feel like they wouldn't be able to achieve the visual clarity necessary for that.

And honestly, it's not like Psykers don't have tools to deal with hordes if DS gets that kind of refocusing. Assail+Scrier's is prolific, and there are plenty of good staff/gun options that deal well with melee, especially if that weapon isn't responsible for dealing with armor.

[gusty sapphire]

cyberpunk does it in the new DLC by giving enemies a hollow red diamond on a part of their body but like

yeah would still be hard to focus on an indicator in the chaos of darktide

[austere warren]

Dunno about that

[raven mountain]

The only blame opening it up to other classes really has with my idea is that the weapon got a bunch of notoriety from people who weren't already in the know. It already was a monster at what it did/does.

[austere warren]

There's multiple talents and abilities in the game that pull your focus towards shiny things to attack and get buffs from.

[raven mountain]

And honestly, I'd like to see the marks for the weapon get actual choice. I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about non-DS4 stabby sticks. I've used them all a slight bit out of curiosity, and didn't find anything really stand out about them to make up for the lack of pointy damage.

[thorn cedar]

Ds4 is just that overtuned on its heavies

400% finesse bonus for crit headshots is unbelievable

[austere warren]

If you're talking about combat knives, precognition for scriers just works well with it for free.

And i guess having more mobility since you're using a knife over a rapier/sabre

[raven mountain]

I mean the other marks of the dueling sword

[austere warren]

The other ds versions make taking the bonus cleave off peril talent more fun. At that point, you just use guns that hurt bigger targets and enjoy yourself.

[raven mountain]

I kinda liked the DS5 strikedown heavy, but at the end of the day, it just didn't do anything better enough than the DS4 to make me want to use it again.

[jovial juniper]

Well I've been preaching about the mk2 every now and then

[austere warren]

Makes quelling off weakspot kills between melee and ranged very smooth ime.

I wouldn't want to make myself into a horde blender in this game though. At least not as my only output with any build.

[jovial juniper]

Kek

[austere warren]

They're not bad marks by any means.

You could even be a weirdo and just take agile on the other marks to make abusing dodge sliding a time.

But specifically, in dense crowds.

[raven mountain]

I think the Ogryn pickaxe is an exemplar in how marks should be. Each one feels wildly different in purpose and moveset while still feeling like a pickaxe and sharing some specific aspects.

And they're all valid choices, not leaving a bunch of power on the table because you chose the wrong one. They just have different focuses.

But we all know that Fatshark isn't the most elegant balancer in their games, and more likely than not, DS4 will get heavy handed nerfs, and just as likely the other marks of the dueling sword will be collateral damage and become even less useful.

Oh, and most importantly, it'll happen in like 8 months, when no one expects it and without any communication about it the entire time.

And that will justify all the complaining about psykers getting nerfs and how the thing should have just stayed exclusive.

[spice veldt]

fatshark is mostly fine about nerfs

[austere warren]

There's plenty other weapon families that are like that already ime with their clear identities when it comes to handling: Infantry lasguns; revolvers; and combat knives as a start. Force swords and staves. Like.

[spice veldt]

e.g., recent assail and voidstrike nerfs as an example

[upper sun]

nerf everything now idc

after the crafting update i no longer need to win any game to craft shit

[late sapphire]

assail voidstrike were only kinda nerfed

without the true aim nerf, but with warp splitting, it would have been too much

[raven mountain]

For what it's worth, thematically, Veteran makes pretty solid sense for using it. Maybe you could say that Zealots would fit the commisar styling, but Vets fit it pretty strongly.

[upper sun]

ye tru aim isnt big on anything else

[spice veldt]

yeah, i would like to see them kneecapped more

[upper sun]

bruh no one plays them

[spice veldt]

i am skeptical of that statement

also, # of players that use it shouldn't be correlated to its balance

[late sapphire]

a proper voidstrike build is pretty rare

[upper sun]

yeah yeah yeah blah blah

everything is smite BB

besides that with the changes they made voidstrike is easily now the weakest staff

[raven mountain]

Really? Voidstrike seems pretty second-class right now for staff picks, and while Assail is definitely a star of the blitzes, outside of the lowest difficulties, it doesn't feel oppressive to play with someone using it.

[upper sun]

but yeah sure arco go balancemax based on how you hate weapons

[spice veldt]

i like the weapons

i main assail

[upper sun]

im so sorry

[spice veldt]

i use them and know that they should be tuned down

[upper sun]

ur so right king

nerf them

[spice veldt]

yes

[raven mountain]

And as far as the blitzes go, Smite is design-spaced really heavily into utility, and Brainburst has usability problems (without heavy investment), and beyond that, Assail's space as a general-horde dps (with range enough to hunt specials) makes it much more visible than the others.

So yeah, Assail is definitely strong, but is it too strong? Maybe it could take some regeneration speed hits so that the choice to whip it out is a bit more impactful, but it does its job well and doesn't bleed into other roles too heavily.

[spice veldt]

the dps is what i have a problem with, because it's distance-agnostic up to a point, has good stagger (as long as you don't use utterly deranged stagger weapons as a reference point), has minor mechanical skill requirements, and has too many shards

[raven mountain]

And it doesn't really step on the toes of too many of the ranged weapon options.

[upper sun]

im pretty sure a vets can get similar single target dps on headhunters as psyker with voidstrike tbh if you ignore the cleave

[spice veldt]

my main change would be to cut assail's max shards in half, and make other minor adjustments as needed

[raven mountain]

I think the max shards is fine, but I'd want the regen cut down.

[upper sun]

ur so right arco

[raven mountain]

Make it a resource instead of completely back every 30s or less.

[spice veldt]

10 max shards is too much because you can really just dump them out at the start

[upper sun]

make it only 3 shards every 10 minutes

[spice veldt]

i'd like less max shards so that you have to more actively manage them

[spice veldt]

flanderizing my points doesn't work when I clearly define the changes that I'd like

[upper sun]

also make every shard cost 50 peril on lmb and 90 on rmb

[raven mountain]

What that amounts to is less nova damage, but the same dps and more weapon switching.

[upper sun]

so tru

[spice veldt]

i don't get why you're so bitter whenever i talk about nerfs

[upper sun]

you talking about nerfing the wrong things

trauma is a bigger issue than void

[spice veldt]

why are they the wrong things to nerf?

[upper sun]

m1 surge is a bigger issue than surge

[spice veldt]

yeah, but i've talked about nerfing trauma so many times already

[upper sun]

when was the last time you played the game?

[spice veldt]

it's just that these things are currently the topic of the convo

[raven mountain]

I'd like to keep the panic/nova damage since it is a blitz and is in the same-ish design space as like a shredder grenade or inferno grenade. Just make it more on par with Shredder grenades in their accessibility.

[spice veldt]

i get that you're either some kid or an ESL person, but I hope you know you're being quite obtuse

[raven mountain]

And that would also make EP stronger with them since it provides free shards.

[spice veldt]

assail's value proposition to me is in its rather good quickswap properties, and I'd want its role to be firmly in the "weave it into your gameplay" sort-of style

[upper sun]

you have two houses both are on fire

nooo we cant get to both houses we gotta go for the older one

[raven mountain]

You also complained about its dps

[upper sun]

https://streamable.com/rsbizq
@spice veldt this is a far bigger issue than what you're talking about

[spice veldt]

oh yeah that was imprecise of me

[raven mountain]

but nerfing max shards doesn't affect dps, only burst damage when unloading all of them.

And I honestly think its burst damage is fine. My issue with it is that you do that, swap to a gun and before the next horde, you have it fully stacked and ready to go.

[spice veldt]

in more precise terms, i have an issue with how players can be incentivized to dump the shards and whatnot at once for a load of damage at the start, and there's less incentive to actively manage it because you have 10 max shards

for the regen part, i'd make adjustments to quick shards to make it more conditional

and yeah i agree with changing the regen if needed

[spice veldt]

yeah, and I agree with removing that from the game by adding some minimum hold timing to quelling or whatever?

like, the solution is pretty straightforward and there's not much else to talk about it

[upper sun]

sure yeah

the issue is fatshark doesnt tackle anything unless people bitch about it

[raven mountain]

Then we have different issues with it. I like that fact, and mentally associate it with grenades as a clear option. Dump it, fill peril, dump peril with shriek. Basically entire horde clear and solid aoe damage in a package. The problem in that use is that you can do all of it again in like 15-20s—EVERY 15-20s. Vets with shredder grenades get some extra access due to their regen and other talents, but not nearly so much that you can just dump grenades every 15s or so indefinitely.

[upper sun]

we're in a triage situation the worst things have to go first

you're talking about staves i havent seen in weeks while surge is deleting events from the game

that the issue

[spice veldt]

ok...? sure?

[raven mountain]

The fix needed to balance EK lmb needs to be somewhat reserved or technical to keep the playstyle viable rather than it just getting deleted or not affected.

Screwing with animation cancelling would do a lot towards making it better though. But I like that you can focus on firing pellets as a build choice.

[ornate hamlet]

I was talking about irl actions of irl rapiers 🙂 where you THRUST into or JAB at certain points to get the most damage out of your opponent

[spice veldt]

it'll still be there won't it?

surge (blessing) will still exist

crit builds on psyker will still exist

even baseline non-macro'd lmb spam with the proper build is theoretically good damage

[raven mountain]

Yeah! It's a finding the weakpoint in armor. Kinda thematically what I was trying to go for with my thrust+rending idea. You find the weak point when charging your thrust, then the rending represents you finding that spot that's not as armored.

[spice veldt]

i didn't know my words here dictated how fatshark balanced

[raven mountain]

It is. I've used it with just the full-auto mod, and it feels strong, but nowhere near what people put out with even poor quell cancelling.

[spice veldt]

i'm just a guy

[spice veldt]

yeah

i don't disagree with nerfing the quell cancelling

just to be explicitly clear, i completely agree with it

and i've talked about it even before the recent popularity of it

i have always been in support of fixing this

[raven mountain]

But at the end of the day, even if EK gets that nerf, Voidstrike is still the worst of the staves, unless I'm forgetting something.

[spice veldt]

it's only recently that this has been a problem, and i haven't been here as often to complain about things

[raven mountain]

Not that Voidstrike is bad, it's totally usable, just not on the same level as the rest right now.

[spice veldt]

voidstrike, i'd make minor nerfs on average and would change some stats around (well, depending on whether it's the light/middle/heavy variant)

current voidstrike is what it is because it's the only staff whose RMB can interact with weakspots, so it got its finesse multis increased for that reason

i would make adjustments towards that and shift its relative allocation of stats away from finesse, assuming that psyker gets a proper finesse-y staff

[raven mountain]

I mean, doesn't that make it the finesse staff, by definition?

[spice veldt]

i guess the context of when i say that something should be nerfed is needed—i think a majority of things should be nerfed, whether minorly or majorly

[raven mountain]

EK lmb is finesse-y, sure, but it's also got the rmb build that in no way interacts with it.

And Voidblast/Inferno don't at all.

[thorn cedar]

is arco up in here bein wrong again

[dense valley]

cmon man this is like the worst take ever

[upper sun]

not just you the general testiment they flat out said that mission select isnt a prioritey because not enough people are talking about it

[thorn cedar]

mission select is never happening

[upper sun]

you take that back

NOW

[spice veldt]

it would take a lot of people for mission select to be a priority, I hope you realize that

[thorn cedar]

cope better

[upper sun]

yes thats the point

[raven mountain]

I think Voidstrike is in a pretty good design space, and maybe it gets some tweaks to usability (takes forever to charge a full shot) or gets soemthing creative to minorly boost it, but it most definitely doesn't really need hit at all.

[upper sun]

MMT needs to die

to get enough people upset

[clear heath]

i am guilty of not caring because i have mmt

[raven mountain]

Assail you could at least argue has a lot of damage and uptime for something that's not a primary weapon (and the only blitz across the classes able to substitute for your ranged option in many cases).

[spice veldt]

i think it's fine? The main identity of voidstrike to me is the lack of any damage falloff with targets it and as a bowling ball. And I don't think bowling balls are very finesse-y.

If the projectile was smaller, then sure, lean into the finesse more

e.g., it's the same thing I would say about the zarona revolver
it shouldn't have good finesse AND bullet magnetism

[thorn cedar]

and pseduo infinite cleave

[raven mountain]

I kinda get that, the visual isn't finesse-y, but the mechanics of it are. Though if it become a thin, laser-like projectile, it might feel more appropriate to the usecase, but you'd definitely lose out on the visceral feels it gives right now.

[spice veldt]

a weapon that would deserve it more would be some staff that launches smaller projectiles
Maybe that would be a new variant of the voidstrike family

[thorn cedar]

beeeaaaam staff

i miss when voidstrike was fucken LOUD

[raven mountain]

Honestly, make it shoot a piercing laser-like shot that explodes when it hits enemies. No mechanical or statistical changes need to be made. That would also make the aoe burst damage more visible since the size of the ball really makes it hard to feel the width of the explosions in terms of visual clarity.

And also align its design with its visuals.

[thorn cedar]

rn i wonder how long its gonna take them to decouple warp splitter from assail

[spice veldt]

I personally don't think that a piercing laser-like shot would fit it
The projectile is (relatively) slow, and it'll still have a large-ish hitbox.
It's called the bowling ball not just because of the projectile being a ball, but also because it has a (relatively) perceivably slow travel time

[thorn cedar]

ive already given up on smite getting 'fixed'

[spice veldt]

when our grandkids are playing darktide maybe

[broken carbon]

whatcha guys talkin about

hi arco

[spice veldt]

hi meow

we're talking about meth

[dense valley]

oh my god how come u are more wrong with every text

[spice veldt]

well, how am i wrong

you're in the right space to explain yourself instead of making snide remarks from the side

[thorn cedar]

its ur face

[spice veldt]

(it's true)

[broken carbon]

don’t talk to my arco like that.

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-growl-snarl-girlwolf-shewolf-gif-9942770988235712676

[spice veldt]

my psyker got called dr. disrespect once

[thorn cedar]

the pedophile?

[spice veldt]

yes

[broken carbon]

yah i agree with this actually, keep the cleave, maybe decrease the stagger, decrease carapace damage, and nerf surge

[spice veldt]

carapace is probably fine?

that's bowling ball-y to me

[broken carbon]

ehh, i don’t think it should be able to one shot a crusher

though

[spice veldt]

one-shot in the sense with surge, right?

[broken carbon]

i guess with nerfing surge that’d also be removed

[broken carbon]

yah

so actually maybe not

[jovial juniper]

What did Surge do 😭

[broken carbon]

surge, the blessing

[dense valley]

the voidstrike lmb is literally the most fitting one, lmb shoot small ball rmb shoot big balls if the whole lmb spam build is to be fixed i think its the ek staff lmb to be fixed

[broken carbon]

the double crit shot lets you one shot a crusher

also just a ton of damage in general

[broken carbon]

quell canceling should just be removed or nerfed heavily

[jovial juniper]

I'd say the reliance on the crit is already good enough to keep it in check

[thorn cedar]

internal cooldown mechanism for left click, problem solved

[broken carbon]

kid named true aim

[jovial juniper]

And like manipulating True Aim would be considered skill expression

[spice veldt]

well yes, if you had to pick only one thing to change, you would change the most egregious thing to fix first
fortunately, i think that we can make changes that affect multiple weapons

[broken carbon]

there are in fact multiple issues!

and they all can be addressed!

[jovial juniper]

They piled up

[broken carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1130953226611597413/1301219355929083905/wolpspin.gif

[jovial juniper]

Just use AoE on them

[broken carbon]

wdym

manipulating true aim?

do u just mean using it?

[jovial juniper]

Stacking with like melee or M1

[broken carbon]

oh

[jovial juniper]

Then M2

[spice veldt]

probably pre-stacking true aim and then deterministically launching double balls

[jovial juniper]

Yeah

[broken carbon]

mmm double balls

[spice veldt]

shlerp

[thorn cedar]

please do not shlerp the double balls

[broken carbon]

i get that but at the same time u can fully stack true aim off of a shot anyway

[thorn cedar]

not anymore

[broken carbon]

i think surge, the second shot, should not be a crit/or less damage

[broken carbon]

oh was that changed??

i did not know

i didn’t see that in the patch notes

[jovial juniper]

Yeah akin to Paul's power surge

[broken carbon]

idk what that blessing does i don’t play ogryn

[dense valley]

i think if anything the whole lmb do main dmg should be changed, lmb should only be used like a clos range pistol and a staff identity is its rmb, maybe instead of use rmb to empower lmb fatshark should implement it the other way around

[jovial juniper]

Where the second explosion is just not that meaningful

[spice veldt]

yeah, i completely agree with toning down some damage property of the LMB bolt

you won't see me disagree here

and i've said the same thing before

[broken carbon]

all LMBs should be unique

tbh

[spice veldt]

i'm on your side dude

i've talked about nerfing the crit damage of the lmb bolts well before this time

[dense valley]

yeah u kinda picked thw wrong example for the lmb argument if anything its the ek lmb

[spice veldt]

what about the LMB argument?

[broken carbon]

surge should be a fast lightning bolt that chains to one other enemy, voidstrike should be the current, and trauma should be a small explosive ball

[spice veldt]

i was talking about the RMB in the other convo, in case you were confused

when i was saying "bowling balls" and whatnot, I was talking about voidstrike's, the staff that launches the balls with RMB

[jovial juniper]

Yup, Sienna had a staff that the projectile would jump to another target

I don't remember the name

[raven mountain]

It was the new necromancer one. Soulstealer or whatever.

Also had brainburst on it, basically.

[spice veldt]

and i'm also talking about just kneecapping being able to quell-cancel LMB shots effectively in general, without care about the specific staff

[broken carbon]

yah i agree

[dense valley]

even so the voidstrike as it is rn def need the finesse roll as its the only staff u need to aim and how else do u incentivize aiming but extra headshot dmg ?

[spice veldt]

it'll still have extra headshot damage?

i'm saying to tone the finesse down, not remove it

do you know what to "tone something down" means

[raven mountain]

I guess you can quell cancel on other staffs, but if it weren't for EK, I wouldn't even care enough to really want it nerfed.

[broken carbon]

u can quell cancel the purg iirc

and it’s stupid

[thorn cedar]

yes its every staff

[dense valley]

if so how does it even compare with ek with extra crit dmg

i think voidstrike is perfect as it is rn

[raven mountain]

That's fun, is it at all effective compared to just shooting a stream?

[spice veldt]

i don't particularly care about comparisons to what is evidently a very strong weapon in terms of whether to nerf it or not

[broken carbon]

higher stagger

[raven mountain]

I mean, besides spamming the stagger, I guess.

[spice veldt]

overall, it could be adjusted a bit and have some aspects nerfed

it's as simple as that

[broken carbon]

and i think it inflicts stacks faster

[spice veldt]

what is with this whataboutism

[dense valley]

sure headshot dmg is strong but to make the most of it u had to constantly aim which is already tiresome if u consider other staves

[broken carbon]

thing bad so other thing not bad

[spice veldt]

sure, there's is aiming in a loose sense

[dense valley]

not to mention maintaining dd stack

[thorn cedar]

why is nobody talking about the mouthfeel

[raven mountain]

Or the legs?

[spice veldt]

maintaining DD stacks is hardly difficult also unless you're going left-side or not taking +2 stacks on weakspot

[thorn cedar]

meow no

[broken carbon]

u don’t fuck wit it

[spice veldt]

in which case that's a conscious build decision that you've made as a tradeoff for perfectionism or a free talent point to work with

[thorn cedar]

man they really kinda

[dense valley]

whereas with other staves u just need to hit r before u came in ur pants lol

[thorn cedar]

braindeaded DD a while ago

[spice veldt]

don't worry, i want certain other staffs to be hit much harder than the changes i want to voidstrike

[thorn cedar]

i just run perfectionist so that i dont feel like im getting all my bonuses basically for fucken free

[spice veldt]

motherfucker like voidstrike is one of the staffs I would nerf the least

i'd just set the finesse down by 0.3 or 0.2

nothing big

[thorn cedar]

THAT's 50%!!!

[late sapphire]

true aim was nerfed

[raven mountain]

I'd like a bit more reactivity on DD to looking in a new direction and getting a new target, but I don't really think it needs messed with.

[broken carbon]

🐌

[dense valley]

cmon man voidstrike is perfect as it is it should be the baseline to tune other staves if anything

[broken carbon]

(they already informed me)

[late sapphire]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640690634621190144/1305874429955276800/gkxdm8lfozub1.jpeg?ex=6735ef56&is=67349dd6&hm=99b09a4a604cbbc9bf979b0231da1573cd4194af0df9af2d879302a22e9922c1&

[thorn cedar]

well rn its such a freebie that it's exceedingly common for players to just take Lingering Influence and nothing else

[spice veldt]

yeah, DD is in "good enough" territory and works, so i don't care about balancing it more

[late sapphire]

charging bb

your brain will explode in 3 years bozo

[broken carbon]

i think DD would be neat if it prioritized highlighting enemies like gunners that were shooting at you

[raven mountain]

Other than a minor disconnect between design space and visuals, Voidstrike is basically right where you want things to be.

[spice veldt]

yeah, i do think of it as an example when i imagine nerfs to purgatus and trauma

[broken carbon]

like if an enemy was targeting you, itd be more likely to get highlighted

[spice veldt]

i also think about the voidstrike in relation to other weapons

not just staffs

[thorn cedar]

it actually does this

[dense valley]

i dont think voidstrike is overtuned compare to any psyker weapon that utilize dd

[spice veldt]

if i really wanted to annihilate its identity, i would recommend adding damage falloff with targets hit, just like the overwhelming majority of weapons have

[thorn cedar]

it just isnt keen on swapping blue targets when one is already selected

[broken carbon]

ah

i shmee

[raven mountain]

I just dislike when DD picks an enemy that I was looking at but it happens to be in the wrong direction then takes what feels like forever to adjust to me going a new way.

[spice veldt]

yeah it's pretty weird

[dense valley]

like its already too much work to make the most out of voidstrike compare to other staves let alone guns

[spice veldt]

is it?

[thorn cedar]

dw ill hold down the field with my ep smite

[spice veldt]

it's relatively easy to use it

[dense valley]

say, revolver u pull it out headshot and thats it maybe reload it once in a while

[thorn cedar]

all u gotta do is blast ur blue balls into the blue men

[spice veldt]

don't worry, i also want revolver nerfed

my argument for voidstrike also applies to revolver
shouldn't have bullet magnetism if it also has good finesse

[broken carbon]

honestly fuck everything else buff mk3 evis

pleaSeeeee

[spice veldt]

i hope the point that I want multiple things to be nerfed and not just voidstrike has been gotten across

and we can stop this whataboutism

[thorn cedar]

sadly fatshark is going the other way with revolver

[broken carbon]

more finesse! more armor pierce! more damage!

[thorn cedar]

where bistol was just given more revolver-esque properties to compete with it

even tho bistol was genuinely perfectly balanced

[broken carbon]

ehhhh

[thorn cedar]

(ignore aim jank)

[broken carbon]

it needed the infested buff

and the cleave

those are the 2 things it needed most

[thorn cedar]

but it also got a giant revolver bullet ray

and infested damage, not really

[spice veldt]

aw it got bullet magnetism?

[broken carbon]

3 shots to kill a dog….

[thorn cedar]

hit them with your sword

[broken carbon]

it didn’t!!!’ it’s just large hitboxes and hitbox priority!!!!

this game doesn’t have bullet magnetism!!

[thorn cedar]

they literally run up to you to die

[spice veldt]

bullet magnetism in the sense of destiny 2

revolver and plasmagun obviously have bullet magnetism

[thorn cedar]

i feel like laspee does in hipfire

but idk

[spice veldt]

voidstrike is an actual projectile so i say that it has a large hitbox

[thorn cedar]

might be the thc talking

[spice veldt]

large hitbox and bullet magnetism are practically the same for raycast anyways

[broken carbon]

no it’s just a big hitbox

[spice veldt]

ok, the point is that you shoot in a close proximity to an enemy's head and still hit it

bullet magnetism gets the point across and you knew what i was talking about

[thorn cedar]

its a ray tho. Cause you can shoot inbetween two heads and hit both

[spice veldt]

and they are, once again, practically the same

[thorn cedar]

a very neat magic trick

[broken carbon]

yeah

what exploits said

[spice veldt]

yeah? i don't see what's wrong with what i said unless you guys have some hyper specific definition of things
and it's obviously going to work like that in a game where weapons can pierce multiple enemies

[thorn cedar]

no like two dudes side by side

[spice veldt]

YES I KNOW

MOTHERFUCKER

[thorn cedar]

do u tho

[spice veldt]

TWO ENEMIES THAT DON'T OVERLAP

[broken carbon]

bullet magnetism would be moving the bullet

as opposed to a large hitbox

[thorn cedar]

point ur computer fans at ur face so u can overclock ur brain

[broken carbon]

LMFAO

it’s okay arco…

[spice veldt]

yes, and depending on how bullet magnetism is implemented, this would still work in darktide

[broken carbon]

we can all be friends…

[broken carbon]

but it doesn’t move the bullet in darktide

[spice veldt]

you guys have a specific definition of bullet magnetism in mind

yes the bullet is not a physical projectile in darktide

i think i understand that very well

[broken carbon]

yes

[haughty star]

which way does the revolver work

[broken carbon]

large hitbox

[spice veldt]

it doesn't matter
shoot in close proximity to enemy head, you still hit it

[thorn cedar]

magnetic god ray

[haughty star]

i've yet to try revolver scriers but i assume the ammo would be a fucking problem lol

[broken carbon]

kinda

fanning revolver is fun though

for gunker

[haughty star]

does that shit have bigger ammo cap?

[broken carbon]

yeah it’s like 89 bullets

[haughty star]

i haven't tried it since it was released and it was trash on release

[broken carbon]

an extra 30-40 shots

[broken carbon]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/j0YWSOERMaGHqPqkI?invite=cr-MSxwWWQsMjA0ODY2MDQ3LA

also does this

[haughty star]

lmao what in the god damn

[thorn cedar]

this was such a funny post

[upper sun]

very wrong

you're supposed to use smite single target to edge one poxburster for 3 minutes until you kill a zealot with it

[thorn cedar]

thats very difficult actually

[upper sun]

ITS CALLED SKILL ZEALOT...

[jovial juniper]

Poxbursters are insta popping when smite

[upper sun]

no

[thorn cedar]

nah you gotta hold it a beat longer

[upper sun]

if you click and release quickly they stagger

and they loop the stagger

[thorn cedar]

if you fuck the tempo up they just pop

[upper sun]

its not that hard

[jovial juniper]

I like seeing bursters waves explode from a single m1

[jovial juniper]

Lol

[red lily]

I wish it didn't get so crunchy/unredable lmao

[thorn cedar]

blame the AI

[jovial juniper]

Damn
I should stop killing stuff with smite

unselects Enfeeble

[thorn cedar]

fatshark really needs to rip out the pitfalls of smite

Enfeeble is right at the top

[red lily]

y'all got any tips on builds I can run to get the 40 kills while under scryer's gaze?

[thorn cedar]

I dunno what Charged Strike is trying to be

purgatus staff

put out a partial volley of fire

press f

keep doing fire stuff

youll have it