psyker-class

[mossy oyster]

time to get good at knife

[languid shuttle]

I was thinking of trying the chainaxe when the update drops but it doesn't have a finesse damage bonus does it?

and scrier's gaze LOVES finesse

I also realized I somehow didn't have the thing that restores toughness on warp attack kill when I have a ball of death staff, so that might help

[mossy oyster]

uh

no

chaxe has no finesse

its not really a crit wep

good for annihilating shit at weakspots but thats just raw dmg

[languid shuttle]

Is perfect timing good with a knife?

and a staff as the ranged weapon of course

[mossy oyster]

is that movement speed on crit

[languid shuttle]

No it's bonus warp damage on crit

[mossy oyster]

you should be taking crit talents if you run scriers anyway

MM/Mettle/PT

yeah and you're using a staff

so why not

I take it anyway even though it only boosts my assail, on my scriers build

(assail can crit anyway so it inherently can boost itself with perfect timing, if it works like I think it does)

[languid shuttle]

this build runs smite unfortunately

[mossy oyster]

punk rock chick that uses a knife

uses smite

1+5=9

type beat

[languid shuttle]

is that a reference to something

[mossy oyster]

no that just doesnt make sense at all

lmfao

scriers/smite/knife?

[languid shuttle]

Stunning things has proven helpful to the team before

gives room to breathe

plus the ball of death staff is good enough at long range on its own

[mossy oyster]

imo if you're running scriers knife

you arent trying to support the team

you should be going all in on the kill shit

[robust jacinth]

Killing the hoarde > stunning the hoarde

[mossy oyster]

with scriers

especially with knife

[languid shuttle]

Hm, you make a compelling point, horde clear isn't great with the voidstrike since it does nothing at close range

[mossy oyster]

ok

so you're running

void/knife

[robust jacinth]

Just do Columnus scrier

[mossy oyster]

with scriers smite

whats your keystone?

[languid shuttle]

Disrupt Destiny

[mossy oyster]

yeah

smite has no point in this build im sorry to say

just go assail/dd/scriers/void/knife

thats actually a build i was supposed to make a few days ago

[languid shuttle]

I wish they let you switch the blitz abilities without redoing your entire build...

[strong gulch]

Yeah. It's annoying. There is a mod that helps with that. Still not perfect even with it.

[mild heath]

the main playerbase does not visit discord or reddit and at best look for youtube guides

and then they find stuff like Tanner

and it is what it is

its like that for any game

[languid shuttle]

side note I wish there was a fire blitz option

[eager horizon]

Glad to see Psyker's finally getting the nodes the vets stole back.

[mossy oyster]

alright here

[strong gulch]

RAR Real....Robot

[latent mauve]

Me and hamdol should post videos about builds

[mild heath]

can i get my zealot node updgraded to 20% AS, Vet and Pusker keep stealing

[latent mauve]

Maybe that’s not a good idea for most of my builds

[eager horizon]

Vets greedy for nodes fr

[latent mauve]

Given how much they require frame perfect dodges to not be turned into zealot sushi

[eager horizon]

"I can't stop eating talent nodes" they say "I'm addicted to gobbling talent nodes"

[fresh reef]

this build is really easy to carry bad players with, but idk if I'll get called slurs by good players for using it

[mossy oyster]

if you run void/scriers/knife/DD it should look something like this

in my opinion though

if you never use assail

take away 30% assail regen

and put it somewhere else

but this is what I would run

[languid shuttle]

skipping the big movespeed bonus is an interesting choice

on scrier's gaze

[mossy oyster]

?

I literally have it on

[latent mauve]

Interesting knife you have

[mossy oyster]

lol

[languid shuttle]

or is that the toughness damage reduction

[manic halo]

Move speed is lyfe

[mossy oyster]

thats the TDR

[languid shuttle]

which one is at the bottom

[fresh reef]

bottom one is toughness

[mossy oyster]

kinetic flayer

[latent mauve]

This is a based build

[mossy oyster]

thrown out of airlock

[latent mauve]

No assail

[nocturne dust]

lol the squished look

[mossy oyster]

[latent mauve]

Based

[mossy oyster]

soyker

[fresh reef]

closest I could get

[ornate hamlet]

Hi

[robust jacinth]

No

:v]

[fresh reef]

hello :)

[strong gulch]

That's enough DT tonight. My hands are angy.

[fresh reef]

carpal tunnel?

[strong gulch]

IDK. I have bad joints and connective tissue issues. So probably and other things. It's stays spicy over here.

[fresh reef]

oooof. sorry to hear dude

[strong gulch]

Me too. Heckin heck

[fresh reef]

also like, weird thing, I swear every nonbinary person I meet has some kind of movement impairment for some reason

[strong gulch]

REAL

[fresh reef]

like, my old highschool bestie Jace used a cane at 15

[strong gulch]

😩 cane life

[fresh reef]

I wish I had pictures

their cane was fucking drippy dude

like some mob boss shit

[strong gulch]

👀

Canes get really cool.

[fresh reef]

sword cane dueling sword skin when Fatshark

[robust jacinth]

The "they/them" pussy has broken many. Nobody comes out unscathed.

[fresh reef]

true, it has hypnotic properties

at least, that's why I assume my bf stays with my weird ass

[potent echo]

Gamer chair helmets

[mossy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/vivelacrab-bloodborne-roryrogue-gif-6779345303641507201

[fresh reef]

Whar?

[potent echo]

This, although more people call it the toilet bowl headpiece

[fresh reef]

Ohh, nah

I leave that there so it clearly outlines and backlights my head

Give the heretics a slightly easier time, yknow?

Plus if they miss their shot, it might just ricochet into my skull anyway

[mossy oyster]

pinball with soyker head

[fresh reef]

Using Empathic Evasion to dodge thinking about the noose in the closet 🔥

[potent echo]

does equipping empathic evasion make you a heretic

[fresh reef]

No

Especially not if you're using crit aura

[potent echo]

are you evading the feelings or are you using the feelings to evade

[fresh reef]

I think using feelings to evade

The feeling mainly being "Oh hey, that's a bullet. I don't really wanna die right now, so nyoom"

[strong gulch]

"I'm an empath."

[fresh reef]

I found myself crutching on it too hard though

[potent echo]

bullet: frfr im peacing out

[fresh reef]

Good positioning with cover >>> Empathic Evasion

[strong gulch]

So you're saying, be good at the game.

[fresh reef]

Using both in tandem makes ranged enemies a non issue

[potent echo]

yuh

[fresh reef]

Genuinely yes

[potent echo]

but also

its gonna get even more support with new patch

[fresh reef]

I am so fucking ready for new patch

[mental grail]

Toilet bowl 💀

[fresh reef]

The m1 talents are the peak of peak

Combine that with Surge Surge and things are gonna get funny

Omg wait Scrier's Surge with the new SG staff talents

One could hope and pray for a viable m1 boss killer build

[fresh reef]

skibidi

[fresh reef]

Anyone know if the consignment yard mid-event skip still works?

[worthy kayak]

Psykers in the next patch:

[patent jacinth]

Replace that with a shotgun

I cast Lawbringer Special

[restive ice]

https://tenor.com/view/clothesline-vanessa-bayer-debbie-fogle-brooklyn-nine-nine-knock-down-gif-16485492

[nocturne dust]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-pyro-teamfortress2-teamfortress2pyro-fire-gif-13656490

[pliant delta]

Suggestion for Psyker's Venting Shriek ability:

Warp Rapture (Venting Shriek ability modifier dealing 100-200 dmg) is generally considered much worse than the alternative Creeping Flames (Venting Shriek ability modifier applying Soul Flame) - have you considered reworking? Suggestion is to have Warp Rapture instead activate Brain Burst on horde in the AoE, with the number of affected enemies scaling with Peril. This would maintain the instant damage vs DoT trade-offs of the two ability modifiers while bringing Warp Rapture up to par (and being just a generally badass power fantasy).

[fresh reef]

I'd like warp rupture to have enough impact to stagger bosses. That'd give it something psyker's whole kit is missing

[spiral sky]

Everyone in here keeps talking about me =_=

[strong gulch]

[potent echo]

trauma needs buff

[spiral sky]

Yes yes yes

Moar

[broken carbon]

i think warp rupture should do one of two things

Halved ranged, increased cooldown, but brain bursts every target in the cone

same range and cooldown, but brainburst elites and specials only, and staggering chaff

[mossy oyster]

everyone soyker next patch

🔫

my soyker next patch

https://tenor.com/view/gun-shotgun-shooting-fire-cartoon-gif-14404861

double barrel manstopper scriers scattershot

[patent jacinth]

Lawb would do better

Don’t need scattershot

True aim being some kind of bullshit

[broken carbon]

he just wants to use it

[patent jacinth]

I probably will too

Wizard with a big fucking shotgun is peak character

[broken carbon]

real

[plucky flax]

Blaze trauma buff finally next patch

[brazen rampart]

This would be unbelievably broken and I'm all for it.

Imagine being at 100 peril and having the terror that is The Blender approach you, and you just delete it with your ability.

[broken carbon]

with halved range and an increased cooldown

i think it wouldnt be

or at least not that broken

[summer prairie]

Right now the way the flamer/purg rending works, you apply up to 4 stacks per hit and the cap is 20 stacks, duration 5s. The stacks seem to add 1% rending each, so 20% max rending. The values might have been tweaked of course.

[potent echo]

Oh so it's not based on 4% per soulblaze stacks

It's kinda fine then I guess

[autumn smelt]

which is directly linked to this, which is where the 4 stacks is coming from

[potent echo]

But you can move from 0.1 carapace to 0.4 carapace with 20% blessing and 10% talent

[autumn smelt]

if this is the case im going to be greatly disappointed tbh
cuz massive rending buffs for purgatus would go hard as fuck

same with the flamer

[potent echo]

You can already do it with uncanny melee

[autumn smelt]

tho the flamer its still kinda bis cuz yknow

yeah but not to the same amount of uptime

[potent echo]

But it involves more gameplay

[potent echo]

Flamer getting ammo from reserve sounds amazing

[autumn smelt]

i dont think its realistic to keep either flamer stacks up and uncanny up at the same time

[autumn smelt]

i cant think of a situation where youd need that much ammo outside of bosses

but at that point why are you using a flamer on a boss

[potent echo]

Continuing to hold lmb for blaze away

[autumn smelt]

@latent mauve

[potent echo]

Blazeaway uptime

[autumn smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/maya-fey-ace-attorney-pipe-violence-die-gif-1337642744128472696

[potent echo]

[wind spruce]

Warp Unbound (As a modifier to Scrier’s Gaze)
Scrier’s Gaze prevents you from overloading from Perils of the Warp during its lingering effect.

Hahhahahaha this is so overpowered

Thank you, Fat Shark

[summer prairie]

It's only for 10 seconds but seems nice for e.g. surge double shot lmb spam fest

[wind spruce]

10 seconds is a very long time.

[autumn smelt]

it opens up the door for staves to be contending options for use in melee focused scriers builds

[autumn smelt]

these 10 seconds also are active while the ability is in cooldown

[wind spruce]

Exactly

[autumn smelt]

which at MOST means you will not have the effects for 15 seconds outside of the active effect

it encourages using scriers much more often

[wind spruce]

Exactly again. You can now assail with the full force of scriers behind you, no fear of blowing up while it's active and you don't need to quell down for 10s

[autumn smelt]

plus now i wont fucking explode if i throw a shard right at 98% and the game says "thats it, youre done, hand me your phone"

[wind spruce]

And that's just the current gunker builds, staffs... goddamn the possibilities are huge

[autumn smelt]

yknow whats even more broken

[wind spruce]

Tell me

[wind spruce]

HAHAHAHHAHQA

I hadn't got that far yet

[autumn smelt]

crit strings

fucking

[wind spruce]

Jesus christ

[autumn smelt]

crit strings

[summer prairie]

right that's nice during SG

[wind spruce]

So scriers is now massively extended if you're using a high RoF weapon, and especially with the vld recon

[autumn smelt]

i await this talent with bated breath

[wind spruce]

You would've fucked like three times as hard here with the new talents

Can't wait

Empyric Resolve
-40% Peril Generation. -30% Toughness Replenished.

Damn, this is interesting

[autumn smelt]

its actually insane how good that will be, the crit peril quell

[wind spruce]

The highest damage build in the game just gotta even more ridiculous damage potential

[autumn smelt]

that was a melee focused build with the gun just being there cuz i had nothing else to really use, least used part of the build

unlikely to be the case with that talent

[wind spruce]

Have you tried the recon since last patch

[autumn smelt]

i dont think ive ever used a recon

ever

[autumn smelt]

me trying this build was the first time i ever gave an iag a real shot too

typically a zealot main

so im rarely paying attention to guns

[wind spruce]

Try the high RoF one with a scriers DD build

The burn damage is off the charts, and that reduce peril on crit talent will have incredible synergy with it

[autumn smelt]

potentially after itemization

i should have enough blessings to basically make whatever or be close enough to that

so im just gonna wait

[wind spruce]

Totally reasonable

You only really need infernus to try it out

Rest is gravy

[autumn smelt]

like im 910-920ish i think out of the 1214

didnt recons come with at least 2 damage blessings

yeah dumdum is mandatory
and deathspitter is right there

[wind spruce]

Yeah dum dum does work

[autumn smelt]

i dont think burn will really be that valuable considering the sheer damage output

[plucky flax]

I have not played since May. Not been able to try the infernus vid psyker meme.

[wind spruce]

Nah it's like 25%+ of the guns output

It's surprising

Hang on I'll find a scoreboard

101k burn / 394k ranged damage

And a decent chunk of that ranged damage was assail

[plucky flax]

Veteran with the goated monster damage.

[autumn smelt]

krak grenades

[wind spruce]

135k wasn't far behind, but yeah

[autumn smelt]

it was a boss maelstrom, an aiii

kraks kinda are suppressively strong there

eating majority of the weakened bosses hp right out of the gate every time cuz of the grenade regen

so its never surprising when the vet has the highest damage in those almost every time

[plucky flax]

PswordPgunPshout krak best build in game.

[autumn smelt]

erm actually
knife double barrel shout and weapon specialist would like a word

[wind spruce]

This is so arousing, bloody hell

[plucky flax]

I don't know what double barrel is I have not played the game.

I am but old sedition gamer.

[wind spruce]

That poor pogryn

[autumn smelt]

knife is a bleed weapon guys

make sure you get your bleed blessings on it!

hopefully the sarcasm in this statement got through

[strong gulch]

Omg, wtf are these buffs I'm seeing. I was afraid we were going to get the nerf bad.

[upper sun]

RENDING

[autumn smelt]

ngl
im absolutely baffled psyker has not been nerfed, nor vet

[autumn smelt]

looking at the code for the purg and flamer rending

[upper sun]

no

[strong gulch]

umm

[upper sun]

thatll take 3 hours

[autumn smelt]

its not as good as it initially sounds

[upper sun]

🤔

[autumn smelt]

tho thats assuming that it remains this way, this has been in there for a while

[upper sun]

its still good

[autumn smelt]

20% rending

[wind spruce]

Purgatus Force Staff
New: Penetrating Flame
1-4% Rending on Burn Stacks.

Is this what we are talking about?

[autumn smelt]

yes

[tired estuary]

I mean for z flamer its not gonna be as good as old chastise flamer anyways

[wind spruce]

Are you assuming 20% max rending based on the current in game code

[autumn smelt]

supposedly according to the source code it is 1% per stack, capping at 20 stacks
the tiers are just 1-4 stacks per burn proc

[wind spruce]

Riiight

Yeah that's not going to change much

Its a small damage buff to most targets and still won't do fuck all to crushers

[autumn smelt]

i mean it will make both able to deal with crushers
not effectively, but youre not completely wasting your time against them

rending is an additive number to the adm, so even a small amount can still be quite significant

[tired estuary]

Its gonna be funny on purga combined with peril rending and uncanny melee

[autumn smelt]

its +(0.2) to the soulblaze adm

[wind spruce]

True, but for high tier play it won't make much difference because you should be running an uncanny melee

[wind spruce]

It's basically one free stack of uncanny if you're stacking uncanny. Then your last two uncanny stacks (roughly) are doing far less

[autumn smelt]

the difference is that the purg can be done from a distance and can apply to every enemy in front of you
uncanny melee still is 1 enemy at a time and requires you to be in harms way

yeah its slower but its more wide spread and safer

[wind spruce]

I am allergic to safety

[autumn smelt]

and purg doesnt really care about difficulty density since it just kinda hits everything within range

[wind spruce]

But fair

[autumn smelt]

that 3 crusher pack on heresy and 10 crusher pack in auric mael makes no difference to it, its dealing the same amount of dmg to all of them anyway

[wind spruce]

Empyric Resolve
-40% Peril Generation. -30% Toughness Replenished.

On what current builds would people take this

[autumn smelt]

EP Sm*te

[wind spruce]

Hahaha yesss

Everything else I can think of feels questionable

[autumn smelt]

That build didn't need to get any more potent but here we are

[wind spruce]

I'd probably take it on DD assail trauma, but that's ignoring its placement on the tree

It's garbage with warp charges shriek imo

[autumn smelt]

Which we don't know where it is yeah

[wind spruce]

It's one of the two above warp charges I think

[autumn smelt]

Oh wait yeah they did say where it was in there

The general location

[wind spruce]

Based on an the art style of the nodes and that, yeah, they said it's on the way to WC

Actually I'm definitely right

[autumn smelt]

You could stack it with the wc peril reduction node lmao

[wind spruce]

Because the top two are puppet master and solidity

[autumn smelt]

For even more

[sinful peak]

what's the best dps combo for deimos, L1H2?

[wind spruce]

Yes, unless you want to get silly and try the l1, block cancel

[autumn smelt]

Or if you wanna get fancy, quick swapping or block canceling to reset back to l1 being the stab

L1>h2>qq>repeat

[sinful peak]

is special used at all?

[tired estuary]

no

[plucky flax]

I run double bleed on knife thank you. (no s)

[wind spruce]

Melee psyker is so real with the right hand group of nodes

And the smite modifier

[plucky flax]

I use it but I am built different.

[broken carbon]

the cleave buff will actually be nice

[plucky flax]

It stacks uncanny to 4 stacks straight away.

[wind spruce]

Lightning Speed
+10% Melee Attack Speed.
Warp Splitting
Up to 100% Cleave, based on Peril.
By Crack of Bone
Melee Weakspot Kills Quell 5% Peril and Reduce further Peril Generation by 20% for 4s.

[broken carbon]

i’m hoping psyker’s weapons will be able to have a competitive horde clear with that

[plucky flax]

With the cleave talent and gazer you can make anything become a horde clear melee weapon.

[mossy oyster]

deimos + cleave scaling with peril

its joever

also looping deimos L1 over and over

is extremely funny

(we need more thrusting starters on weapons)

[autumn smelt]

I think this will be the first time the mk6 knife can get a direct large cleave buff

[mossy oyster]

wym executor is right there

[autumn smelt]

What's it's profile like
Lemme check

[autumn smelt]

LARGE

100% is like 3x as big

[mossy oyster]

erm 6% x 5

is large enough

[tired estuary]

can't wait to run Warp Shitting + Crap of Boner on illisi

[wind spruce]

So you take smite

Game one build ready to go

Two points spare

[plucky flax]

I dunno if that smite modifier melee is a meme or not.

I think with gazer I still like assail to kill shooters.

[broken carbon]

depends if it’s flat damage or percent damage

[plucky flax]

And dd.

[wind spruce]

Yeah we'll see

[broken carbon]

the tree looks almost similar to vet’s, just a lot stuff

[autumn smelt]

I don't think I'd be willing to drop assail for smite

[broken carbon]

idk if i’m gonna like it

[autumn smelt]

Assail weaving into melee is just too powerful

[broken carbon]

almost all locks being removed is nice though

[chrome sphinx]

Sorry, but I will never switch from bb

[wind spruce]

It should be stronger with horde weapons like illisi and devils claw, and less impsctful on duelling sword already oneshotting everything

[wind spruce]

You misunderstand sir

You drop assail for psykinetics aura

But, yeah, it's suboptimal

[autumn smelt]

@mossy oyster Mk3 and mk6 cleave values against groaners
The falloff on the 3rd target even on crit weak is pathetic

[plucky flax]

Also deflector buff.

[tired estuary]

can't wait for the discourse when psykinetic aura is gutted

[plucky flax]

I can block more melee attacks now.

[wind spruce]

Assail is objectively the best choice on literally every build but blaze trauma and smite dedicated builds

CMV

[mossy oyster]

which row is crit

[autumn smelt]

If you look at the thing, you have better pathing between stuff and are almost never locked out of a node

[mossy oyster]

or is this just crit

[broken carbon]

was there any changes listed to brain burst

[plucky flax]

Not surge creeping flames build aka blaze trauma but without the blaze trauma staff.

[mossy oyster]

no

[broken carbon]

or is it still gonna be kinda useless

[mossy oyster]

sadly

[broken carbon]

sad

[wind spruce]

THEY SAW MY POSTS

[autumn smelt]

Body crit weak weakcrit
Left to right

[wind spruce]

Ok any build that isn't a shriek CDR build

[plucky flax]

All my builds abuse creeping flames. I am 1 trick pony.

[mossy oyster]

thx pookz

(I still dont get this)

🧠

[broken carbon]

how

[mossy oyster]

jk

[plucky flax]

Unless I play voidstrike I take assail.

[broken carbon]

it couldn’t be more clear

[mossy oyster]

i just gotta look at it more

[broken carbon]

oh ok

lmfao

[mossy oyster]

relax bich

damn

bout to kill me

[wind spruce]

As one should

[broken carbon]

yeah

woe brain burst upon ye

[autumn smelt]

Oh I didn't mention
That's a mk3 light and m6 heavy as that's what you use for horde clear, since this is cleave we're talking about

[plucky flax]

I feel strongly about assail and voidstrike with the syngery too. But pygex is notoriously hater for that combo.

[mossy oyster]

ok now put executor on it.....

jk

[wind spruce]

Yeah well bad takes aren't something foreign to him

His whole battery gunner thing 💀

[autumn smelt]

Assail just fucks too hard
And it's not stupid overpowered anymore like on release so I don't feel bad about using it

[mossy oyster]

oopz

[plucky flax]

Ask me to kill shooter packs with just voidstrike alone and I cry.

[mossy oyster]

executor pilled

[wind spruce]

It's just at the threshold where most of the playerbase don't realise exactly how fucking strong it is

[autumn smelt]

Erm
You have a melee weapon

[wind spruce]

Shooter packs, group of bruisers, multiple specials

[plucky flax]

I wonder if this also increase charge speed of staff/melee heavy wind up?

[autumn smelt]

So they use smite instead and suck out alL OF MY FUN FROM THE GAME BY PRESSING THE PAUSE BUTTON

[strong gulch]

They level up with assail and when it doesn't clear the entire map on harder difficulties it's suddenly "bad and fell off".

[wind spruce]

Like do I want to charge two void bolts to kill that group of bruisers or literally weapon swap and flick out two assails during a single slide, not slowing down at all

[autumn smelt]

And MM is enough to bring it up to that point there in damn lole

[potent echo]

New patch I might an SG main

[wind spruce]

YASS SIBLING

[potent echo]

Especially if you can continue casting after 100%

[autumn smelt]

Assail spam at 100% peril
Voidspam at 100% peril

[wind spruce]

Dude they ruin everything

[potent echo]

So lmao

So owo

[plucky flax]

Also new MM for assail and melee/gun weaving.

[wind spruce]

SG void might be real

[autumn smelt]

Ok I'm glad it's not just the zealot chat that hates smykers

[strong gulch]

Ye. Especially if you are maintaining the melee assail weave.

[potent echo]

I'm literally crying that's all I ever wanted

[wind spruce]

🥵

[potent echo]

Agile engagement for psykers Les goo

[plucky flax]

5 stacks = 20% free warp/norn warp damage btw. That's quite a lot. D:

[wind spruce]

INFINITE DODGES IS BACK FWWOOOOAHHH

[plucky flax]

Also with warp rider and everything else.

[autumn smelt]

Agile engagement is the most fucked node ever it's so strong

[strong gulch]

WHAT

We get crab back??

[potent echo]

For all humies

[plucky flax]

But we can do it without even stealing ammo from team so we're clearly better than stinky op vets.

[potent echo]

It's new blessing on ds

[wind spruce]

New: Agile
Refreshed Dodge Efficiency on Weak Spot Hit. +2.5-10% Melee Weakspot Damage

[autumn smelt]

Nah agile engagement is 25% melee dmg on ranged kill and vice versa

[wind spruce]

Oh

[autumn smelt]

Agile, the blessing, is dodge resets on weakpoint it

[autumn smelt]

I think it's on tac axe too?

[tired estuary]

everybody hates smykers, even smykers themselves (most of them just haven't realized it yet)

[wind spruce]

I forgot to finish reading the patch notes

Why is there two parts, ffs

[potent echo]

Smykers now have melee boost talent (??)

[autumn smelt]

One is short

P2 has all of it

[potent echo]

I wonder how good it is

[autumn smelt]

Not enough to consider blasphemy I bet

Not when assail melee weave is down the hall

[wind spruce]

I cannot see a talent called Agile Engagement

[plucky flax]

It's on vet.

Stinky OP class don't touch it.

[wind spruce]

Right.

Damn you @potent echo

Hot take: void builds now take duelling sword without uncanny strike

[potent echo]

Yea that's why I said it's agile engagement on psyker

[autumn smelt]

Not a hot take

[potent echo]

Now take heavy sword*

[wind spruce]

New: Relentless Strikes
+4-10% Power for 2s on Hit (Same Enemy). Stacks 5 times

And shred

[autumn smelt]

Thrust and precog will one tap crushers according to zealot chat who ran the numbers

[potent echo]

Lol

[plucky flax]

But our MM lasts for 8s. So it means we'll permanently have it up for both warp and non warp damage.

[wind spruce]

Uncanny strike has a cult following at this point

[plucky flax]

I think the vet's talent is shorter.

[wind spruce]

Unless it's separate stacks

[plucky flax]

1 shot for range and 5 s for melee?

[potent echo]

Vet going stance now have 1 extra point

Yea vet is 5 sex

[plucky flax]

Yeah we have 8. We are just cooler mane.

[autumn smelt]

Not really, it's really good, but half of the weapons that get it can work without it in specific builds
And with this patch it's just being outclassed

For ds

[potent echo]

Thrust on DS is crazy

It's already so fast

[wind spruce]

I'm saying people blindly take it without doing that sort of analysis

[autumn smelt]

Like uncanny on vet shovels is basically mandatory

[potent echo]

Ofc I'm expecting fatshark to have thrust broken on duelling swords too

[autumn smelt]

Uncanny isn't needed on a piety knife zealot, precog riposte works

[potent echo]

Only 2 stacks max or smth

[plucky flax]

I'm playing assail ds4 with rampage thrust/riposte or shred (need testing) 100% cleave talent gazer.

[autumn smelt]

Uncanny IS needed on a knife vet, as it allows all of their bonus weakpoint damage to take full effect against beefier guys

[wind spruce]

+110% power on monstrosities

[potent echo]

Scriers gaze is now scriers glaze 🫦

[autumn smelt]

It's going to make me glaze my screen

[plucky flax]

ds4 assail vid gazer dd something like that.

[wind spruce]

Pretty sure you'll crack 10k weakspot crits

[wind spruce]

Yep, that'll be the go I reckon

[broken carbon]

bro?

[autumn smelt]

Oh fuck

[wind spruce]

Vld recon will be cracked with Tranquility Through Slaughter

[plucky flax]

I'm back to my root to update blaze trauma build though first game after patch (blazing spirits t4 )

[wind spruce]

Assail cracked with the new scriers perils of the warp immunity node

[plucky flax]

And the 5% extra crit chance talent from soulblaze kill.

[wind spruce]

Is blazing spirit t4 a meme

[autumn smelt]

Uh uh check out this cool spin

[wind spruce]

And do we know what it does

[broken carbon]

check zealot chat

it’s over for u

[autumn smelt]

You're so mean to me

And for what

[broken carbon]

:3

uh

u haven’t been saying hi back to me the past few times

soo

i have to cancel u

[plucky flax]

It's 4 stacks per crit up to 8 stacks cap.

[wind spruce]

LMFAO

[autumn smelt]

A fleeting sense of power?
What will you have when that fades away?

Nothing.

[broken carbon]

i’ll have my silliness

[wind spruce]

I can't believe they actually be buffing blaze trauma

And a huge buff at that

[mossy oyster]

zealot with DS4

check out this cool knife

does the rare knife inspect with ds4

[wind spruce]

Empyric Resolve
-40% Peril Generation. -30% Toughness Replenished.

Yes or no for blaze trauma

Does it save a quell tick is the question

[plucky flax]

I dunno where that'll be.

[wind spruce]

It's right above WC

They said it's on the way to WC and the top two are solidity and puppet master

[plucky flax]

My build also has really low toughness regen. I dunno I need to test and see how many spare points I have. But I need to squeeze in this talent first

Free 5% crit chance is huge for blaze trauma.

[wind spruce]

Penetration of the Soul
+10% Rending on Warp-Attacks when above 75% Peril.
Empyric Resolve
-40% Peril Generation. -30% Toughness Replenished.

You have to pick one of these

[potent echo]

Penetration of the soul

[plucky flax]

Oh then easily the -40% peril gen.

If I have to pick 1 of them.

[autumn smelt]

With it and warp charge peril reduction you'd have so much peril resist it's not even funny

[plucky flax]

10% rending is shite.

[broken carbon]

infinite smite

[potent echo]

Pathing to SG?

[wind spruce]

Hang on we might be able to save a point in the WC keystone

[plucky flax]

Yeah I think new keystone you can save.

[halcyon gust]

One of the better changes is you can take the Crit chance aura without sacrificing the TDR based on peril node anymore

[plucky flax]

6 warp charges, cdr reduce and damage. That's all I need from warp charges.

[autumn smelt]

10% rending on a weapon with absolutely terrible adms is significant

[plucky flax]

I'm using blaze trauma.

[autumn smelt]

Since it's a flat additive bonus to the adm

[autumn smelt]

Rending would apply to the soulblaze

[potent echo]

10% might let you oneshot shotgunners

Idk trauma adms

[plucky flax]

Only 10%? I'll get the peril reduction for more trauma spam without quelling.

[wind spruce]

You can save two points then

[mossy oyster]

@autumn smelt next update you're making a +3 wounds smite/self nuking soyker right?

[wind spruce]

Skip psychic vampire/in fire reborn and inner tranq

[mossy oyster]

: )

[plucky flax]

Oh I actually need vampire too of course for warp charges generation. So save 1 point from inner tranq.

[wind spruce]

Yup

[autumn smelt]

The -30% toughness replenished, if it's all toughness sources, will absolutely tank your survivability

[plucky flax]

The -40% peril regen will offset with that talent.

[autumn smelt]

If it's coherency, then it's a non issue

[plucky flax]

I already don't take soulstealer when I play blaze trauma I am used to not getting any toughness.

[wind spruce]

Mettle will still max you out a lot of the time even with -30%, and you'll have higher crit and less time spent on quelling

[plucky flax]

Yeah exactly.

1 crit with mettle in horde and 100% toughness.

[wind spruce]

And then yeah quietude to round it out plus the soulblaze toughness

[plucky flax]

And soulblaze toughness yeah.

[potent echo]

Nerfed...?

They say it doesn't count all anymore

Only per crit

[plucky flax]

People think burga would be better but blaze trauma still the best burn.

I think that's 1 stack of the buff, not the amount of toughness generated.

[potent echo]

Berhaps

[plucky flax]

Because that stacks is for the move speed.

[plucky flax]

Which would suck but you'd still get 3 stacks fast enough with anything tbh.

[wind spruce]

That's same old blaze trauma with inner tranq point in the soulblaze talent

[plucky flax]

Wait I don't run inner tranq. I use kinetic deflection instead.

No wait I mean battle med.

[wind spruce]

Wait

I'm so tired fuck me

[plucky flax]

I don't run battle med it fucks with my mojo on the random quell.

[wind spruce]

You can't get the soulblaze talent dude

[strong gulch]

Mutant just tossed me into the abyss. 😭

[wind spruce]

It's on the right hand side

And yeah battle med was mistake

[plucky flax]

Wut the 5% crit chance is on the right?

[potent echo]

Gamer mutant

[plucky flax]

Why FS hate blaze trauma

[potent echo]

Just go DD blaze trauma

Gaze blaze trauma

[plucky flax]

How do you even know what it looks like? The talent's icon I mean.

[potent echo]

Its a featureless node lol

[wind spruce]

It's this one

[plucky flax]

How do you know?

[potent echo]

Oh nvm I thought it's the basic node

[strong gulch]

How many points are we getting?

[wind spruce]

@plucky flax it could be the node before it

[halcyon gust]

Still assume the 30 points at max level

[plucky flax]

Ah on the right side.

Makes no sense since all the soulblaze talents are on the left.

And they just put it on the right to fuck with me.

[wind spruce]

It could be the node before it looking at the art again

But you still have to absorb the travel node

[plucky flax]

If it's just the node before then it miiiight fit.

[wind spruce]

You have to cut something hmmm

Wildfire or perfect timing or warp rider or warp battery

Those are the only real options

[potent echo]

Warp battery seems like least useful

[wind spruce]

Regardless, I'm pretty sure the top left node here is the attack speed

Bottom left is definitely cleave

[plucky flax]

Nah it gives 6 warp charges and thus make creeping flames spam a real thing.

I will have to see the full tree on 26th and spend a few rounds testing various options.

Blazing spirits t4 though.

[wind spruce]

Ok yeah you can get to the first node on the right

And not drop anything

But it's gonna be the attack speed

[summer prairie]

oh right we didn't get some of these nodes

[plucky flax]

Blaze away warp nexus burga.

[wind spruce]

@lethal lagoon you haven't even mentioned the LMB staff talents SMDH

[plucky flax]

Surge surge after 1 full right click charge.

[wind spruce]

Anim cancel full charges into an lmb new surge meta?

[strong gulch]

Surge surge with 10 seconds of 100% peril in SG

[wind spruce]

Especially against bosses if you take Empyric Shock:
6% Warp-Damage Taken by victims of your Force Staff’s Primary Attack. Max Stacks 5. Lasts 10s.

Lel

[plucky flax]

This is on the left side. So if it increases charge rate of staff it's huge blaze trauma buff....

[summer prairie]

why would it

[plucky flax]

I dunno what wield speed mean.

Just swap?

[summer prairie]

yes

some weapons take forever, not much of an issue with psyker weapons though

[plucky flax]

Why do I need faster swap? Weapons already swap fast enough.

[strong gulch]

Seems like that should be on the right side

[plucky flax]

I am not using bolter.

[summer prairie]

maybe some guns

[wind spruce]

Yeah definitely helps a bunch of guns

But you ain't going that side with gunker

[plucky flax]

Even columbus with the slap is fast enough. The only really slow weapon I can think of is bolter and helbore that I wish for faster swap.

Maybe they are bringing bolter to psyker.

[wind spruce]

It would help you assail weaving with autoguns, recons etc

[plucky flax]

15 rounds of warp infused bolter shots.

Left side talent with right side blitz.

[wind spruce]

Literally your plan for blaze trauma hehe

[plucky flax]

RIP points economy.

[wind spruce]

Yuppp

Plus gunker gonna be more points starved now

With those extra melee talents

[plucky flax]

Which is weird because right side you are not using soulblaze staff really. Right side tend to be voidstrike (blazing spirits meme? XD)

Maybe that is it.

Blaze voidstrike with the right side soulblaze talent.

[wind spruce]

Yeah I was thinking about that

[plucky flax]

Blazing spirits surge voidstrike.

[wind spruce]

It's useless for perilous combustion as your only source

So it's for crossing back over to shriek or using purg with scriers

Or void blazing spirit yeah lmfao

[plucky flax]

When you gaze with blaze void you know shits is going down.

[summer prairie]

note that in the current code Empyric resolve is -50% toughness generation and -25% peril gen

[wind spruce]

Yep, your damage output 🥲

What's the heavy sword blessing meta atm, head taker and the bromentum equivalent?

[summer prairie]

What's SG "cooloff_duration"? The new infinite casting duration seems to be that + post_stance_duration for a total of 11.5s

though not like you can trust the current numbers to stay the same

[upper galleon]

Yep deathblow

[plucky flax]

Yeah

[wind spruce]

I think there's a delay between you hitting 100% peril and the 10s cool off buff applying

That would account for the 11.5s

Heavy sword is gonna shred on psyker, surely

[summer prairie]

The smite heavy attack node is in the current code too, but not seeing the damage code

[potent echo]

wheres my force staff melee attack bonus

that gives 10% venting

[upper sun]

they just need to change all the staff specials now

[potent echo]

give me carian sword magic NOW

[summer prairie]

I guess it's Souldrinker

[upper sun]

what if void had an autofire chargless mode on special activation???

[potent echo]

bolt staff version 2

[upper sun]

terrifying barrage purge
reload speed
purple chainsword
bully club

ok

[summer prairie]

Didn't notice this was also already in

[upper sun]

no maelstrom today

[summer prairie]

it also makes you explode 50% faster (?)

[potent echo]

but like

it does no damage..

[upper sun]

everyone wants marty psyker but fatshark wont let us have fun

[summer prairie]

Your charge needs to be >95% to get the +30% dmg buff from Channeled Force

[potent echo]

10% rending talent too

[upper sun]

the blessing?

[summer prairie]

the new node

[upper sun]

ugh they need to get better at naming

[potent echo]

time to relearn all the new talent names

[wind spruce]

Hahaha I still can't believe how strong scriers assail is going to be

[mossy oyster]

scirers+ anything

BiS

unironically

its going to just shit

[wind spruce]

Melee + assail weave just by itself will be bonkers, really helping out your ammo efficiency

Straight SHIIIT

[mossy oyster]

unironically

i wonder if there will be sibling spam

in missions after the update

[potent echo]

no

not having vet shout means it unplayable for 50% of the playerbase

[mossy oyster]

sucks to be them

[wind spruce]

I'm keen for chain axe psyker

[potent echo]

honestly

[wind spruce]

Still my favourite weapon in Darktide

[potent echo]

chainsword psyker is probably gonna be the strongest

[mossy oyster]

not touching chaxes until we get a 2-H

[chrome sphinx]

why?

[potent echo]

was lacking because lack of attackspeed

[wind spruce]

Justification?

Ahh

[mossy oyster]

chaxe soyker would just be better then no?

it'll just annihilate chaff/trash

[potent echo]

also chainswords crits having no falloff

[mossy oyster]

and shit on tankier enemies

esp in scriers

[wind spruce]

Plus more cleave, longer scriers (chainsword massively benefits from crits)

[mossy oyster]

(giving atk spd and cleave to a chaxe)

its joever

though yeah chainsword crits with no fall off on scriers

death

[wind spruce]

Yeah cos of all the finesse bonuses we get

It's already the best horde clear melee in our repertoire

[mossy oyster]

being a finesse whore wins out in the end

I knew I chose the right profession

80 finesse or bust

[wind spruce]

But will it be able to hold up against single targets

We'll see

[mossy oyster]

time to stack up weapons and roll for blessings

(again)

[potent echo]

roll for blessings?

thats gone

grind for blessings, back to the salt mines

[mossy oyster]

yeah same thing

getting those busted ass

rending blessings on flame weapons

[wind spruce]

Will only really need to grind for the weapons new to your class

Otherwise if you've got all the tier 4s you'll be close to maxed out

[mossy oyster]

good thing I juggle playing soyker and zeal

gunker as well

[wind spruce]

And I've been buying every tier 1 and 2 for months now to give myself the best day 1 boost hahs

[potent echo]

the biggest nerf in this update is that we no longer have to listen to hadron's voicelines anymore

[wind spruce]

Psyker specific nerf

More sanity = less warp power

Thrust duelling sword honnnggg

[summer prairie]

decent chance the thrust values will be tweaked for DS

[wind spruce]

Based on what? Vibes on the strength of it?

[summer prairie]

Yes

[wind spruce]

Seems unlikely to me

[summer prairie]

ok maybe not since it's the same on a dozen+ weapons

[wind spruce]

It's not gonna be game breaking at 60%

[strong gulch]

You mean "and" not or.

[wind spruce]

It'll help with rager oneshots, mutants (you can probably drop maniac perk), bulwarks for sure since you wait for the opening a lot

Crushers and maulers it really depends on whether you've got uncanny and other buffs if it'll reach the one shot break point, because two is already easy to hit

[potent echo]

thrust on duellies are gonna give deimos a run for its money

[wind spruce]

It already does but yes

[potent echo]

although the deimos stagger is still there lol

[ornate hamlet]

I won't leave uncanny or riposte for thrust because flak modifiers on lights are dog shit and crits already do more than enough

[wind spruce]

Do we think uncanny thrust meta

[wind spruce]

You don't need lights on flak for most builds, though

[formal harness]

also keep in mind how fast thrust is going to charge up with zealot attack speed increases lul

[wind spruce]

Fuck zealot

[upper sun]

also another thing it stacks differently based on the weapon

[wind spruce]

But yes we'll have 10% potentially

[upper sun]

compare thammer vs ogryn shovel vs shock maul

[formal harness]

i'll see how important thrust will be for breakpoints, otherwise I'll probably run something like uc precog still

[upper sun]

shock maul even if you cast a heavy ASAP you will have 1 thrust stack minimum

[wind spruce]

Precognition isn't the meta right now

Let alone with thrust and relentless to play with

[formal harness]

rn the meta is uc precog

[wind spruce]

No it's absolutely not

[formal harness]

precog also lets you horde clear

[wind spruce]

Precognition has pure garbage uptime. There's no way around that downside.

[summer prairie]

thrust is power too so going to be relevant for cleave, especially since you also get more from the node

[formal harness]

it also has only a 0.2 sec delay for refreshes. It stays up for an entire fight when it matters

[wind spruce]

It really doesn't

[formal harness]

it does

i guess its less relevant when you play on lower difficulties, then I agree

swap it out for riposte

or if you wanna capitalize on crit synergies

[wind spruce]

No one's talking about lower difficulties here

Riposte is always better than precog

[formal harness]

riposte is great, but not always better

[wind spruce]

Especially if you have DD or scriers

[wind spruce]

Will it be relevant though? What's the cleave value on DS heavies

Is it so low that the extra power won't make a difference?

[summer prairie]

it's only 1.5 mass but with power and the cleave node it might be relevant

[wind spruce]

Might get through a low tier mob?

That's not nothing

[summer prairie]

but MKII heavy 2 cleave is 6.5

[formal harness]

it makes no sense to write the same things I wrote about riposte and precog, so I'm going to link an older post written by me if you wanna understand why riposte isnt always better

[wind spruce]

Oh I forgot those heavies existed lmao

[wind spruce]

Link away but this has been gone over countless times in this chat

[summer prairie]

and MKV heavies have 3 cleave

[formal harness]

#general-chat message

this part first I guess #general-chat message

[summer prairie]

MKV might benefit from thrust the most actually

lower base dmg, higher cleave

[wind spruce]

Nothing new really, and there's two mistakes. One is that it absolutely is difficult to keep up precognition in most situations and that riposte actually scales better with the finesse bonuses psyker gets than precognition does

[upper sun]

has anyone made a video on the patch notes?

i wanna see someone else get really mad

maybe tanner telo or jctlive?

[wind spruce]

Higher finesse means more benefits from crits and less percentage benefits from additional finesse. It's why riposte is a strictly higher dps increase against monstrosities than precognition is if you have DD

[upper sun]

ill even take he who must not be named

[potent echo]

arent mkv heavies downstrikes

[summer prairie]

I don't remember even, haven't used it since like launch

[potent echo]

it'll be really funny with 9.6 mass overheads though lol

they are all overheads

[strong gulch]

Yes.

[viscid matrix]

Wow purg got a massive buff

**New: Penetrating Flame
1-4% Rending on Burn Stacks. **

[potent echo]

you already mentioned them

[wind spruce]

Mild buff*

[upper sun]

i meant AR

[potent echo]

they moved on already probably

[viscid matrix]

Rend is really powerful

[potent echo]

if you are talking about realAR

[upper sun]

I LOVE RENDING I LOVE MUST HAVE BLESSINGS

[upper sun]

😭

[summer prairie]

it's only 20% rending as far as we know

[wind spruce]

Looking at the code it's thought that it's max 20%

[potent echo]

it works differently

[potent echo]

max 20%

[upper sun]

damn... where am i gonna get smite content?

[potent echo]

probably making sm2 content now im not gonna search the name though

[formal harness]

man no idea what type of games you guys are playing but precog stays up on pretty much all the encounters it needs to be up in, especially during mass enemy incursions. Riposte scaling being better is ???, Since critting with both blessings still mean you are doing the same damage. With riposte you crit more yes, which increases your ttk on other body parts but precog is unbeatable on finesse scaling if you are just going for headshots, which is the easiest thing to do with DS4. The damage you get for critting more is really good, but with a build that already has enough crit chance to also capitalize on crit part of the finesse multiplier precog %100 beats out riposte by giving your attacks less ttk on every enemy

[potent echo]

i dont want to ruin my recommendations

precog vs shred vs riposte are all almost equivalent

its just different flavours

[upper sun]

hey hey hey

[viscid matrix]

Surge now has Surge POG, can probably 1tap crushers now

[upper sun]

itll all irrelevant new blessings are gonna outscale them

[potent echo]

i think arco even tested before precog vs riposte on plagryn boss

difference wasnt much

[formal harness]

The main argument point for riposte is always the same, it is the more consistent blessing for sure. But it will never outscale precog on any build that isn't running minimum crit chance.

[wind spruce]

I play games where enemies are staggered or filtered through areas where their total swings are reduced to the point of it not proccing enough. I'm not saying it's never consistently up but it's nowhere near enough. Particularly aggregious is your example of hordes. If you are keeping precognition at 100% uptime in a low tier horde that means you're surrounded and you've fucked up.

Riposte scaling better against monstrosities with DD is a hard fact based on math. There's literally no wiggle room on this. The finesse bonus from precog stacks additively with DD where as the crit scales multiplicatively. If you calculate out the potential dps precognition wins without DD but riposte wins with it

[thick geyser]

As smite psyker, do you just spam right click+left click combo to cc/push them down or when do you use each move, like only L-click, right+hold l-click etc

[upper sun]

personally i press ESC leave game

[wind spruce]

Almost always right click

Left click is only used to stagger isolated specials or whatever like once every dozen games (hyperbole)

[thick geyser]

what about getting rid of peril when spamming smite? do you equip staff for that or just quell with smite "equipped" ? I couldn't notice much of a difference

[wind spruce]

Ideally staff

It's much faster

[dawn girder]

You use venting shriek

So you can spam smite more.

[thick geyser]

I'm going with the bubble+smite build atm

[formal harness]

it doesn't only proc on hordes and melee attacks, shooters are also proccing precog consistently, which is the best part.
There will be times in games where you are surrounded by enemies. Precog works better in thouse situations giving you a way out by one shotting everything at head level while consistently proccing. When making a build you want to make it for the worst situations you can get into, this includes that situation. If you have another tool like trauma staff you might need this less, but when you are playing for ex. a gun psyker, this is absolutely going to be needed.

i'd like to see your argument broken down at math level as you're saying there's no wiggle room. As far as I can tell from experience, the only time riposte outdps's a precog ds4 is when the monster is targeting someone else. If the monster is targeting you so you can land consistent headshots, the math should show precog is doing much more damage. Give me a source for this.

[dawn girder]

Are you using smite for CC?

[thick geyser]

Yes

[dawn girder]

Use a purg staff. 100% better.

You'll actually do boss damage and kill things.

Smite is a meme.

[thick geyser]

So with purg staff, smite becomes obsolete huh

sorry i'm getting names mixed up, i was thinking of the trauma staff that knocks them on their ass

[dawn girder]

Smites great. But once u start purging

Purgatus is the fart

And torrent of flame

[summer prairie]

Are there any other class talents that give cleave, let alone up to 100%?

[dawn girder]

But in terms of wanting CC that works with bubble, purgatus is the way + you can run brain burst for ranged

[thick geyser]

What would the ultimate support psyker setup be for you? That's my endgoal, i like that kind of playstyle

[dawn girder]

Trauma, walls, brain burst.

[dawn girder]

But i havent rolled a godlike trauma yet, good luck to you.

[thick geyser]

Cheers, tyvm

[wind spruce]

I didn't remotely imply it only procs on hordes. I used the word example.

When you're surrounded by shooters etc riposte = more
Survivability through crit synergies so it's precog is not strictly better.

You're lauding the benefits of oneshotting the low tier trash mobs around you with DS, but scrier DD builds can already do that. If you're surrounded with trauma void or purg, as you say, you can use those instead of DS, leaving literally just surge staff that it's even relevant? Seems mid.

I'll try find @spice veldt's lil table he did

[dawn girder]

Immediate value right outta the box, go for purg staff if youre looking to contribute with a really solid mix of cc and consistent damage. @thick geyser

[dawn girder]

Purg primary is insane for locking down a room once you get the movement down.

[wind spruce]

@formal harness I gotta crash homie. I'll reply to your (potential) reply tomorrow. Sorry if I'm overly aggressive with my wording... bad habits

[formal harness]

This table is good for a basic understanding of the damage values, but what it failes to express is how precog behaves on high crit chance setups. My first argument was that precog beats out riposte in higher crit chance setups. We need to calculate the damage increases based on the main crit chance you'd be running in one build

[formal harness]

dw about it you weren't aggressive, you're just maintaining your point. We are just discussing something about the game. It's completely alright

[wind spruce]

The table gives the values for when it crits and crits against weakspots. You can see that on the bottom line.

[formal harness]

yes I know, but there's a difference between precog crit weakspot damage triggering a lot of times vs not critting and just taking in the headshot damage part.
The calculation needs to include the overall damage you do from averages. (for example, %50 crit chance + precog // / 70 crit chance (+%20 from riposte) + riposte and test the overall damage that way and give a value based on that

[potent echo]

oh lord its king of the hill in here

[wind spruce]

But doesn't the bottom line assume 100% crit chance and still come out with only a 1.27x damage multiplier for precog DD (compared with 1.34x with riposte)

(I'll crash one day 🥲)

I'll re-read this tomorrow and see if it makes more sense to me

[formal harness]

yeah it's fine because i don't think that is what this table is referring to

have a good sleep bro

[wind spruce]

I'm sure it is, the bottomline of the table is "what is the damage increase if you hit a crit and weakspot with precog up compared to not having precog up"

[formal harness]

let me reread it maybe I'm mistaken

[plucky flax]

[plucky flax]

Ogryn has increase cleave on full heavy charge I think.

[upper sun]

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/how-much-impact-will-the-new-penetrating-flame-blessing-have-on-a-purgatus-build-with-numbers/98523

[quartz barn]

wait why did the preview get removed

i was reading

[upper sun]

i removed the embed because i dont want it to push text too much

[summer prairie]

ok, ruined that thread

[upper sun]

@summer prairie "It’s been a while since we’ve seen syllogism — their last post was 10 months ago."

the urge to correct someone was too strong

[plucky flax]

Also he only tested it with 6 stacks soulblaze which is odd because the way it scales is exponentially in term of damage.

Still though blaze away warp nexus is a safer bet and still use your melee to kill crushers as per normal.

[formal harness]

Wooo, is everybody ready for the wall of text?

[formal harness]

Alright so you were right, the table was calculating the average value on both of the blessing's perfect conditions.
I wanted to do some testing with variables included that might not be shown in the table, so I've just gone and done some boss fights in psykhanium.

I've done around 50 chaos spawn fights in psykanium, with 25 of them with riposte uncanny, 25 of them with precog uncanny.
Used scyrier's gaze as an ultimate to reach 30% crit chance for precog and %50 for riposte. (on the same sword)

With riposte, the average of all 25 fights for me was a 01:02,46
With precog, the average of all 25 fights for me was a 01:06,73

I'm going to concede on the point of riposte being better in sustained fights against single target monstrosities since my own testing is also showing it is.
I'm going to do a version with disrupt destiny later as well if I'm free.

What I learned from just doing these fights is the more the fight goes for, the more riposte gets value. (If you are fighting a single entity).
The fastest time was 00:45,25 with precognition, the fastest time with riposte was 00:49.93. I think this might be a lucky string for precognition, so not important. Just cool information.

The difference is so marginal though. They roughly deal the same damage in a minute. Riposte is still better in terms of overall damage, but I don't think the damage difference in total is influential enough to put one blessing over the other with only this fact.

So I went through the pros and cons of each of the blessings to make a more concise list for anybody that wants to choose between these two blessings for a spot in their weapon.

Precognition:

Pros:
Insane one shot breakpoint potentials. Can even one tap a crusher in the head with %25 carapace, DD and Scrier's Gaze stacks on. Gives better TTK on maulers, bulwarks, crushers and ragers.
Still helps to contribute extra damage on headshots even when you couldn't crit. This allows the blessing to consistently horde clear without any crits.
Works better on higher crit chance setups for decreasing overall TTK on elites thanks to you not needing to do a second attack most of the time.

Cons:
Duration is short and if there aren't enough enemies around you won't get too much value out of it.
Sometimes drops off faster than you could do a H2, which is annoying.
Doesn't help too much in a boss fight if you aren't being targeted.

Riposte:

Pros:
Very good boost to overall dps.
Beats out precog in a boss fight by a bit.
Consistent. 6 seconds to refresh is a great time to pretty much have the blessing up the entire game. Will proc in all situations precog would proc.
Still gives you good breakpoints for one shotting, but reliant on hitting the crit chance proc to get there.
Much better at capitalising on crit synergies such at mettle, emphathic evasion and perfect timing.

Cons:
It won't make any differences in ttk if the attack doesn't crit unlike precog, which would get you over some breakpoints without crits.
Doesn't help too much in a boss fight if you aren't being targeted either. Funnily enough, the best blessing for boss fights without you being the target is shred.

.
Verdict: (Assuming the second blessing slot is uncanny strike)
I'm currently running precog on a lot of my setups because most of the time I use my duelling sword as a poking stick to quickly remove an enemy and go back to my secondary spam.
Better TTK on precog serves me better in this playstyle compared to consistency of riposte. I also use it for consistent removal of hordes in my setups that lack hordeclear (I prefer removal of enemy over sustain through synergies).

Riposte however is still an incredible blessing if melee is going to be your main focus on your build, or a support tool to proc your crit synergies. It's overall dps is higher, and it's a more consistent tool for safety and synergies.
It is better than precognition if you are running it with disrupt desting and focusing down a monstrosity. It performs better if you are not as good at hitting heads or in a situation where you can't hit heads consistently.

What is META? I guess it depends on how you're planning on using the sword in the first place.

Hopefully this is the end for meta conversations for ds4. This entire wall of text was made with the second blessing slot being Uncanny Strike. So if any of you wants to argue how good Riposte + Precognition is, I don't have the mental patience right now lmao

[plucky flax]

Rampage Uncanny gigachad here. Thanks.

[formal harness]

i've tested all types of duelling swords so I think I have one like that as well lmao

i did have one

[plucky flax]

I use it to boost creeping flames damage via the 36% power.

[formal harness]

fair enough. I use a different weapon when I go with flame synergies tho

Illisi with UC + Slaugheterer

you sacrifice obility but get consistent damage increase

[plucky flax]

This is purely for my voidstrike ds4 creeping flames build.

[formal harness]

makes sense honestly.

[plucky flax]

Voidstrike assail ds4.

It just to help with clearing horde even faster.

[formal harness]

anyways im done typing, gonna hop in a game lol

[plucky flax]

Also note with ds4 and (blaze) trauma shred is better like you said because you'll knock the crushers down then poke their heads. Similar to monster not focusing on you.

Just make a bunch of ds4 and use it for different builds. Will be so easy after crafting update too.

[formal harness]

jokes on you, I already have every single blessing combo on ds4

[plucky flax]

DS4 zealot with the infinite dodge blessing meme might be funny.

[formal harness]

made like 10 different swords lmao

[formal harness]

this is going to be so busted

[plucky flax]

Momentum keystone for long dodge + dodge reset on headshot? Xd

[formal harness]

just dodge through the entire map smh

[plucky flax]

Also ds4 with thrust on psyker will need testing too.

[formal harness]

pretty hyped for some of the new stuff, we will see

[plucky flax]

Back from work trip just in time before update

[languid tusk]

@formal harness what about riposte + precog without uncanny strike ? I already use traumastaff to deal with armored patrols

[summer prairie]

forceswords have 0.3s wield delay, staves 0.2s. I guess 50% off that makes it slightly comfier. Bolt pistol has 0.65s, the shotgun will have 1s delay, revolver has 0.4s. Feels like you can immediately shoot with e.g. the revolver though

[random dawn]

they need to change out the shop for this week

[viscid matrix]

https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/business20/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/3/2/328ff0e6606d395114877e824bf0beaa79927f4a.jpeg

New tree is looking awesome

[paper harbor]

here this one under disrupt destiny

[near wyvern]

Recon VId fastest quelling speed in the game

[summer prairie]

too bad no ammo gen

[lyric burrow]

yet another columnus W

(it didnt need more)

[plucky flax]

I heard columbus got nerfed in the last patch.

Reduce crit string?

[potent echo]

huh

SG with columnus is going to be absolutely busted lmao

ideally it would be based on magsize or something but 🤷‍♂️

[restive ice]

yeah -1

[zinc phoenix]

They letting the blunts use our dueling swords? This is bullshrimp

I don’t love the psyker tree changes

[plucky flax]

We get heavy sword (which is just worse than illisi anway)

[zinc phoenix]

Deflector boost I am happy about at least

[summer prairie]

what's bad about the tree

[zinc phoenix]

Longer tree -> fewer dips

[summer prairie]

it's not longer

[zinc phoenix]

It sure looks like they added more nodes

[plucky flax]

I think zealot still no power sword yet?

[zinc phoenix]

Yikes zealot power sword 😂

[summer prairie]

the new nodes are either optionally on the side or just alternatives to existing nodes on the way down

and you can get to warp battery easier

[zinc phoenix]

Bloating the tree 😞

[summer prairie]

the old builds cost the same as before

[near wyvern]

Yes but the difference is not really noticeable

[near wyvern]

The only exception will be Puppet Master + Quietitude with Warp Siphon keystone. That will now require an additional talent point which is kinda a bummer since Warp Siohon is already so point hungry.

[summer prairie]

you can drop essence harvest or inner tranquility I guess

[mighty cipher]

Does the "dmf" file go in the main area or specifically the mods folder?

[summer prairie]

mods

the folder goes in /mods/

[mighty cipher]

Cool

[plucky flax]

Just drop puppet master.

You don't need teammates.

[near wyvern]

This is probably what will happen

[summer prairie]

is psychic vampire still better than in fire reborn without the better coherency, for say blaze trauma

[plucky flax]

Blaze trauma I always run vampire.

Same with surge.

[summer prairie]

right but now you have smaller coherency

[plucky flax]

I only use in fire reborn with burga.

[summer prairie]

if you skip puppet master

[plucky flax]

It'd still run vampire without coherency radius increase.

Some other guy in team is going to run it anyway.

Ledditors love coherency.

Huh with the new tree you can run both in fire reborn and psychic vampire.

[summer prairie]

if that's true

[plucky flax]

The bottom 3 nodes are battery, fire reborn and vampire.

[summer prairie]

going to be tough to afford everything I want

[plucky flax]

I'd only use 1 though running both is too points costly.

[summer prairie]

I don't know how the rules work for those connections

[zinc phoenix]

Idk I might run both

Blaze trauma full send warp charges

[potent echo]

who knows if they are mutually exclusive