psyker-class

[potent echo]

they've teased second hive city since release

[tulip kettle]

GW just released the new necromunda game

called hive secundus

[potent echo]

stats

[tulip kettle]

yup

that is the equivalent of a base 320 weapon or so when you look at the distribution

[potent echo]

seems to increase evenly

[tulip kettle]

kind of, that is a weapon that i would not personally bother with

its got a low base potential

[rich spindle]

Isnt the potential always 380?

[tulip kettle]

i dont think so

i think its capped at 30

my 8 key is dodgy

380

if you look at a 380 base weapon it will have enough total % points distributed to give you 80% on 4 of the bars

[rich spindle]

9+2+4+2+3=20 missing stats, thats a 380 potential

[tulip kettle]

okay right i agree

but as you said it increases evenly

[tacit hill]

I dont know why they just dont let us make all full 80 stats with this system.

[tulip kettle]

and also this weapon can only have 2 more points added i believe

[upper sun]

because some awful person at fatshark has zero faith in the game

they think its not fun enough to keep people hooked so they gotta tack on slop like crafting and imperfect weapons

[tulip kettle]

i was super excited for the new map content

i like that the paths through some of the older ones are now variable

[upper sun]

i hate the new map

[tulip kettle]

like they always were planned to be

but then they released the new map

aka barrel staircase

[rich spindle]

Crafting and rng are fun

[upper sun]

also zero cover event

ive had many games were people type "gg" after the middle event

[rich spindle]

The middle event is so hard lol

[tulip kettle]

oh you didnt run swift certainty zealot? too bad git gud

[rich spindle]

Probably the hardest current event in the game

Maybe hab dreyko finale is coose

[tulip kettle]

dreyko has been fine since they changed it

imo

[upper sun]

new dreyko end event is easier than before

[rich spindle]

Yeah

[strong gulch]

Loved when old dreyko would save all of the ragers or maulers for the end event.

[quick python]

You would arrive at Hab Dreyko proper with sub 100k damage per person and end it at 500k

Take me back

[jovial juniper]

I just think new Dreyko feels small

[haughty star]

New?

[ornate hamlet]

it's how you use it

[rich spindle]

Old dreyko was a teamwork check but the new one is just a ranged damage check

Still cooler

[potent echo]

old dreyko was easier but more dynamic

new dreyko is easy or hell depending on how many damn ranged units spawn on the upper level

[rich spindle]

True it is pretty rng

[upper sun]

i've legit never lost a hab dreyko since the end got reworked

smelter complex tho my winrate is 50-50

same for silo cluster #zealot-class message

[analog agate]

New smelter complex shows how people who play this game… when given too many choices. Will always make. The WRONG one

[upper sun]

so tru

team went in random directions when the valve event happened 3 people died

ended up kiting until they respawned

[rich spindle]

I always split up for the valve lol

[analog agate]

It usually starts with 3 going to one eye. Douche who ignores everyone goes to another one. Dies. Idiot thinks he is heroic and breaks off from the 3 to save one who is down across the map. He dies. Me and other dude finish it and clutch

[winter bloom]

should i grab it?

[ornate hamlet]

yeah

[tulip kettle]

i still like that they are SLOWLY adding in more of the alternative path stuff

instead of just that one bridge explosion that makes 0 difference at the end of dreyko

more of this on every map please

[upper sun]

hell yeah

do you usually use ciag or are you new to auto guns?

[winter bloom]

new

[upper sun]

okie then it doesnt matter

i went from columnus to graia and i struggled a lot with aiming

the range you can accurately hip fire a graia is a bit lower than columnus so make sure you ads with it

[stiff falcon]

Wild

It’s 95% for me

[tulip kettle]

ive not had a chance to use the bolt pistol yet, just threw this together. Im assuming it wants carapace.... which perk should i lose?

[upper sun]

if you played 100 smelter complex games i weep 4 u

[stiff falcon]

Easy map

[upper sun]

idk man teams disappear at the end event now

[haughty star]

Smelter complex is easy depending on what your playing and what the teammates do.

As a psykwr it can be a very hard clutch

[upper sun]

last one i had to lutch it 1.5 times

[haughty star]

As a knife zealot it's pretty ez pz

Except for ya know

[upper sun]

i am a rashad zealot now

i only know the way of the axe

[haughty star]

Rashad is much nicer pick than knife imo cuz ya know. Knife zealots couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag if a horde in front of it

[plucky flax]

Knife is decent against horde on zealot.

[upper sun]

knife has a lot better boss damage than rashad

[rich spindle]

Knife has gotta be the best melee in the game overall imo

[upper sun]

ye but the issue is with knife its a lot harder to aim than many melee weapons

[tulip kettle]

idk i find knife is fine with hordes when built properly

[rich spindle]

I was ass with it at first it just takes some practice

[tulip kettle]

and personally i find psyker the easiest class to carry and clutch with

[rich spindle]

Swing at head height

[upper sun]

https://tenor.com/view/typing-keyboard-fast-gif-22223727

[tulip kettle]

duelling sword + blazing trauma + shriek = solo everything

[upper sun]

i can lmb spam a rashad and get 4 heads in one swing meanwhile the zealot looks like this

[tulip kettle]

without bleed dagger sucks

i do agree

[rich spindle]

Not that good on psyker because of the lack of melee toughness regen and DS outdamages it

[tulip kettle]

i also agree

if you want the extra mobility take one of the non 4 duelling swords

[rich spindle]

On zealot it lets you solo

[tulip kettle]

on zealot if i actually want to carry games i use catachan 4 lol

[rich spindle]

Rashad cruises at a higher level but it cant let you solo everything like the knife

[tulip kettle]

oh i need to solo this plogryn? guess ill parry spam

group of 12 ragers?

parry spam it is sir

crusher about to bop me?

[rich spindle]

It can parry overheads right

[tulip kettle]

have you heard of our lord and saviour, the parry?

indeed

the only things it cant parry is : plogryn charging into you attack, beast of nurgle puke, beast of nurgle toungue grab, chaos spawn tentacle grab

it will parry the bulwark bopping you with its shield

but your attack will hit the shield so meh

[ornate hamlet]

Regarding this thread, can anyone shed some light here? (30s read) https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/considering-dmg-output/97365

(there are other attachments in the thread regarding scriers gaze and Disrupt destiny talents)

[haughty star]

Every knife zealot I've seen just runs away from hordes and when they do take on hordes it's literally comically slow

It's nor a great hording weapon by any means

[tulip kettle]

it is not

but the blessing that gives + power on weakspots + a tall player model makes it useable

passable

[haughty star]

For just singling out mix ins it's fine but against a pile f adds it's really meh

[tulip kettle]

and wrt this, both of those perks are dogwater and do nothing

[haughty star]

Eh surgical would be a better pick but headhunter is OK

[upper sun]

is that u are you THE guy?

[tulip kettle]

the blessings are fine

the perks are not

[ornate hamlet]

Do they really though? Because I was oneshotting everything in the specialist corner in psykanium.... I just want to know how much of a difference this makes for gun psyker.

[tulip kettle]

i can show you how the math works?

[rich spindle]

Its alright. If I spam lights the horde will go away without much trouble

[upper sun]

yeah perks arent great crit damage and weakspot are calculated badly(wrong)

[ornate hamlet]

Please include these in your maths

[haughty star]

It's pretty awful comparatively

[rich spindle]

I dont think so

[haughty star]

Rashad better

[tulip kettle]

okay but before that

[upper sun]

bruh

it factors out

[rich spindle]

Its just mediocre

[haughty star]

Mediocre as in worse than every thing but the most terrible lol

[rich spindle]

Yeah thats what mediocre means

[upper sun]

x times allthat<=> y times allthat

[ornate hamlet]

Weakspot dmg is additive, not multiplicative when combining its benefits though, isn't it?

[tulip kettle]

base damage 100 + 20% bonus for crit = 120 damage . if you take +10% crit damage perk, you get 100 + (20% + (10% of this 20%)) for 122 damage

[upper sun]

we're talking about the perks while everything else stays the same

[ornate hamlet]

Are we taking into consideration the bonuses from finesse?

Which amplify those stats?

[tulip kettle]

very simplified, that is how those perks, and the "weakspot damage %" and "critical damage %" work

right but you are amplifying 2 damage

do you understand

you are not amplifying the 100 base damage

or the 120 total damage

you are just affecting the 20% bonus

to give a further x% of that bonus

wheras, for example, the "+ flak damage" perks, work like this

[ornate hamlet]

I hear you, now I need to go test & verify (not that I disbelieve you, but I need to ... for my brain)

[tulip kettle]

100 base damage + 25% bonus for flak = 125, then 125 + 20% crit for 130 dmg

[ornate hamlet]

Are you speaking on crit dmg or rng weakspot or both?

[tulip kettle]

THEY BOTH WORK THE SAME

sry caps

accident

[ornate hamlet]

k

This is one of those things I need to see myself, you understand.

(stuck in loading screen)

[tulip kettle]

so the multipliers to "armour damage modifiers" (flak, carapce, unyielding etc) are applied earlier in the equation, whereas modifiers to the "weakspot damage" and "crit damage" only affect the damage of the critical damage and not the total

[ornate hamlet]

Why don't scriers gaze and DD work in the psykhanium anyway?

[tulip kettle]

there are some videos i can link you

this is just, very deep and nerdy into the math of darktide

[ornate hamlet]

Which is unfortunate because if it's true, that's a gross discrepancy.in how the information is presented.

[formal acorn]

what is finesse damage?

[tulip kettle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QlBkFN9RRw&ab_channel=j_sat

[ornate hamlet]

Finesse modifies crit damage and weakspot dmg, i believe.

[tulip kettle]

hahahahahahaha

lol

lmao, even

[formal acorn]

thx

[ornate hamlet]

Why are you laughing?

[tulip kettle]

you said the thing

[ornate hamlet]

What thing.

[long wharf]

crit damage and weakspot damage perks have been known to be ass since release

[tulip kettle]

fathshark dont display how the stats actually work

tale as old as time

[ornate hamlet]

So what is funny about me saying the thing?

[tulip kettle]

anyway go ahead and watch this and you will understand

[rich spindle]

I wonder if crit damage would be balanced if it calc'd off total

Weakspot probably would be too much

[tulip kettle]

the more relavant part is around 15 mins onward

[ornate hamlet]

thats where I am

[analog agate]

The days of carrying pubs

[haughty star]

It's really hard to carry now imo

Difficulty has ramped up quote nicely

[stiff falcon]

both nerf bait

"really hard to carry"

they still have not fixed event spawns, timed hordes or ambients

[haughty star]

Do you ever say anything positive or ya just come in here to bring things down?

[stiff falcon]

zealot defensive works well hehehehehe both extremely over tuned weapons with equally over tuned blessings

the children yearn for 3 mil total damage games again

[stiff falcon]

I’m right tho

They undid the gunner change

I have had 3 vegs with under a million damage combined

[haughty star]

Rager change and just generalized DD ramp up is still a thing tho

Still alot harder than it was before machine gods

[upper sun]

thats kind of high damage for a pub was that a maelstrom?

[upper sun]

tfw rashad will get nerfed before i get to try out a godrolled one 😭

[haughty star]

It's just the nerf cycle soon as they nerf that people will be crying to nerf something else. People been wanting the plasma nerfed since it came out an effectively nothing has been done to that

[upper galleon]

Still competing with 10% elites and 25% to armors

[upper galleon]

Plasma used to be utterly terrible until it was buffed to be niche

I wasn’t until the insane 100 cleave buff did people want it nerfed which it def deserves

[upper sun]

i just want ONE week after the crafting update comes out where we can try out all the broken weapons we never could build

then they can balance everything

[upper galleon]

You simply can’t buff every gun to be as good as current plasma, and this is a post nerf version

Oh and it used to cost hp to vent, not toughness

[upper sun]

the dark ages of vt2 😭

[analog agate]

No. Histg auric and our group picked up both grims (hence high dmg we took).

[upper galleon]

Most broken things in this game are super easy to build lol

What pc4 psword and thrust 4 thammer

[upper sun]

imagine taking damage on quell when you have a surge

[upper sun]

BRO

took me ~55k plasteel to get those two blessings

[upper galleon]

Only two things i can think of that are limited via current crafting

Yea

And those are exceptions

[upper sun]

and at least 15k more to for bases

[upper galleon]

Any idiot can pick up a revolver or plasma or CIAG or chainsword

[upper sun]

i wanna try out my rashad with unarmored 4 instead of 3 and headtaker 4 instead of decap 4

i spent 1 mil today trying to build a new one

[upper galleon]

Unarmored 3 to 4 is 5% lmao it isn’t doing anything

It’s unneeded

Your own mental blocking you

[upper sun]

yes

but heataker is the bigger one

sometimes when enemies get knocked away or i mess up i cant lead the weakspot hit

so headtaker would be a lot better

[upper galleon]

Get ht4 any rank of bm works and flak and unarmored can both be t3

[upper sun]

though decap has good uptime for me

[upper galleon]

Meaningful breakpoints is what matters

[upper sun]

I NEED to test one one perfect one tho in game 😭

[upper galleon]

You only need cause you conditioned yourself to gamblemaxx

[upper sun]

i dont even gamble much anymore

i have great stuff of everything i wanna play

i just wanna try out the real high grade black tar rashad before going to rehab

[rich spindle]

Decap is way cooler than headtaker

[plucky flax]

On zealot?

[upper sun]

yeah

[stiff falcon]

Why

Bromentum

Infested and unyielding damage in tree

Either marty or momentum

[plucky flax]

Why unarmoured on zealot wut you can already 1 shot scab bruiser headshot.

[upper sun]

t-the guide

[plucky flax]

What guide?

[upper sun]

i'm pretty sure i wont be able to one shot 4 without unarmored

[plucky flax]

Maniac or unyielding so much better than unarmoured on zealot.

[stiff falcon]

Who’s guide

[plucky flax]

Even if you can't outright 1 shot it first time (with my build I can), with headtakers stacks I'm sure you'd be able to 1 shot bruiser.

[upper sun]

🤔 tbh

none of this matters since i have legit never rolled a rashad with a free perk

[plucky flax]

Flak maniac bm4 headtaker 4 there you go.

[upper sun]

idk i saw it somewhere

[plucky flax]

On both rashad and antax.

Then go stealth loner martyrdom. Bestest zealot build for solo gaming. Just carry the team.

[stiff falcon]

Was it buildslantern

[upper sun]

no

pretty sure it was zealot channel

[upper sun]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c9337be-44b5-4bdc-a019-993172437a2f/axe

this is what i use

[plucky flax]

I use agentchaos' build.

[stiff falcon]

Garbage build

[plucky flax]

It's so good.

[upper sun]

what would you do

[stiff falcon]

Flak maniac

No bolter

[upper sun]

i went to his youtube tbh but then did not use it because i dont wanna play stealth

[stiff falcon]

Never

[upper sun]

I want bolter

[plucky flax]

If you want to use bolter I'd go throwing knife.

[upper sun]

i have zero revolvers btw

[late sapphire]

If you want to use bolter I'd just not do it

[upper sun]

yeah

[plucky flax]

You can't quickly kill specials with bolter man.

[upper sun]

i run at them

i just use the bolter for crushers

and sometimes bulwarks

[plucky flax]

Use rashad for crusher wtf.

And bulwarks too.

[upper sun]

idk man sometimes you get hit by the 3 bulwark gameplay wall and it makes me wanna leave the mission

[late sapphire]

Bolter got btfo'd for crusher purposes with the fotf nerf

[plucky flax]

Rashad and bolter is such a meh combo. But if you really want to go for it I can't tell you to not to.

[upper sun]

it kills it in 2 bursts its fine as far as ranged carap options

[late sapphire]

Used to be able to just wipe entire squads

[plucky flax]

My build is superior my axe with extra stagger talent can deal with bulwark easily.

[upper sun]

uhhh

[plucky flax]

Grevious wound is so good for combat axe.

[upper sun]

idk if punishment still does that after the nerf

[plucky flax]

I would be interested to see how many specials kill this build creater get.

Sub 20 probably.

[stiff falcon]

Bolter is abysmal dogshit

[upper sun]

bolter is fine could use some animation fixes

idk why you have to pull the tab when equiping it when its empty

[plucky flax]

Still no reason to run unarmoured on rashad though.

So this guy's build lost all credits to me.

[upper sun]

😭

its good i swear

let me cope with my locked perks

[plucky flax]

Sure.

[stiff falcon]

Skill issue

I hit 210k plasteel again

Grinding my way back to 350

[upper sun]

im at 19k

700k dockets after bricking 3 rashads

[upper sun]

I hope both sides of your pillow are warm tonight

[late sapphire]

I've been grinding dockets irl

[upper galleon]

zealot takes flak maniac xd

it's really easy to hit the scab bruiser BP without unarmored on zealot

[upper sun]

im pretty sure someone used it out of choice i dont remember who

shit i think i copied from vet guide

i can no longer cope ith my locked blessing THERE ARE YOU PEOPLE HAPPY NOW?

[late sapphire]

bricked

roll a new one

[calm sapphire]

Cope till crafting update, don't give in to your darkside thinking about tinkering your stuff to godrolls

[upper sun]

okay maybe i do need throwing knives @plucky flax

skip to the end to see me eat it

[tulip kettle]

throwing knives also let you cancel the animation of getting the bolter out which is neat

[upper sun]

ye

[tulip kettle]

i wont play flamer or bolter without throwing knives

[upper sun]

but they also would have let me kill that trapper 😭

[scarlet timber]

i use to to think average

vet is the worse at melee

now im convinced its pskyers

the amount of time i seen nothing but light attack spam on deimos or obscurus users

is insane

[tulip kettle]

i mean

plenty of weapons are not good for hordes

and using them on hordes is not efficient

[scarlet timber]

yes but

light attack spam?

[tulip kettle]

lol

daggers

taxes

chainswords

[scarlet timber]

but

im talking force swords

[tulip kettle]

right

[scarlet timber]

how many psykers you see with chainswords?

[tulip kettle]

but the deimos light is terrible for everything

[scarlet timber]

h1 has some cleave at least

[tulip kettle]

lol not enough to make it worth while

[scarlet timber]

i know but its STILL BETTER THAN LIGHT SPAM XD

[tulip kettle]

if you have to clear hordes with deimos its L1-H2 combo

but still trashola

but thats the point right?

they arent bringing a horde melee weapon

[scarlet timber]

wait no

dont do that

h2 is oyur massive single target dmaage

you want to do h1 l2

[tulip kettle]

solid disagree

[scarlet timber]

dude

that one is a poke

[tulip kettle]

i am aware

[scarlet timber]

how do you horde clear w ith that

[tulip kettle]

lol

you dont horde clear with deimos

but L1 H2 kils an enemy each attack

other combos do not

[scarlet timber]

im talking horde clear...

[tulip kettle]

RIGHT CAN YOU READ

actually im done

[scarlet timber]

thats not right dude

your best bet is h1 l2

[tulip kettle]

sure

sure

agree to disagree

[scarlet timber]

cuz your h1 actually got cleaving attack

[tulip kettle]

sure my dude

[scarlet timber]

yeah i guess now i know why psykers suck at melee thx for confirming me

[tulip kettle]

H1 L2 H1 L2

2 dregs die

H2 L1 H2 L1

4 dregs die

good one

[long wharf]

psyker is arguably the best at overall melee

excluding blood knife zealot

psyker can handle all enemies with a couple melee weapons

[buoyant maple]

No it’s to loop H2 as much as u can

So it’s usually L1 > H2, or if PA > H2 in some situations

[cosmic sigil]

Chainswords are fucking good at horde clearing. What are you talking about?

[long wharf]

they're alright

not great

[cosmic sigil]

Have you seen @indigo portal data sheet? Chword Mk4 is pretty much at the top

[long wharf]

you really feel the inadequacy in the face of dense hordes

[cosmic sigil]

If you don't invest in crits

[long wharf]

what datasheet?

[radiant frigate]

it's not illisi so i don't care

[long wharf]

I'd argue Illisi being among the best horde-focused melee weapons in the game

[cosmic sigil]

#zealot-class message

Also Crits on the chword are very much busted against flak. Because the adm stays pretty much the same on every target hit by the weapon

[long wharf]

this is psyker chat

you want to argue the merits of chainsword for zealots? go argue there

chainsword is an objectively bad choice for psykers, given all the options psykers have

[cosmic sigil]

It was a talentless test

[long wharf]

the only melee weapons I use with zealot are eviscerator and thunderhammer

[stiff falcon]

Ewwwwww

Worse heavy sword and worst mk3 knife

[long wharf]

zealot just isn't fun otherwise

I'd rather play the other classes instead

[cosmic sigil]

You said chword were bad at horde clear, I have just shown that's not the case in a talentless test. It's not the same for taxe because you have to invest in your trees to go beyond the threshold needed for BM.

[long wharf]

chainsword is bad for psyker compared to psyker's other options

sorry not sorry.

[cosmic sigil]

EVis is still better than heavy swords against carapace and unyielding

[cosmic sigil]

Ok so you're the grumpy guy coming to post once in a while with hot takes in psyker chat and you're telling me to go fuck myself?

Nice gate keeping bro

[long wharf]

who pissed in your panties?

[indigo portal]

My sheet didn't include Psyker's melee weapons in fairness. Both Chainswords have phenomenal fodder damage and nearly competitive bruiser damage, I don't play Psyker so I can't really give an opinion on how well a Chainsword would mesh with their kit. @spice veldt or @feral verge would be more familiar with the subject.

[long wharf]

Illisi is basically unstoppable against hordes

[lyric burrow]

chainsword does fine on psyker

[cosmic sigil]

You, pretty much.

😄

[long wharf]

ds4 and deimos murder heavy things, and are okay (not great) against hordes

[lyric burrow]

psyker has good access to crits which chainsword benefits a ton from

[indigo portal]

Hello yogurt yoshi.

[lyric burrow]

i wouldnt call it the best option but

more than usable

hello exhil

[long wharf]

as I said

it's about opportunity cost - what you give up by making the choice you make

[stiff falcon]

Low mobility weapons bad

[long wharf]

the only thing chainsword is superior for is causing bleeding

and there's no synergy with psyker for bleeding things

[lyric burrow]

idk about that

[long wharf]

look up the word "synergy" before you argue more

[lyric burrow]

bleed on chainsword is p mediocre regardless of class, zealot just gets crit chance from scourge really

[long wharf]

psyker has zero bleed-related mechanics or abilities

[indigo portal]

In a similar vein to opportunity cost, taking bloodletter is a blunder of a blessing slot.

[long wharf]

ergo, zero synergy with bleed effects

[lyric burrow]

but chainsword is still a solid weapon without bleed, and bloodletter blows

[analog agate]

It’s not that chainsword is bad on psyker. Just we have much better options

[lyric burrow]

chainsword is giving you a very generalist weapon at the cost of mobility and not being able to access peril

im not arguing for it above illisi or deimos but its still good

[cosmic sigil]

I have a weapon ready to deal with carapace / elites why would I use a ds4?

[long wharf]

ds4 not only can put down anything, it provides excellent mobility

[lyric burrow]

i would take it on a gunker build if i didnt want to faceroll with deimos/duelling sword

[tulip kettle]

you wouldnt. what gun are you running?

[long wharf]

with deimos you get single target damage and deflector, if you want that

I personally prefer ds4 over deimos

[tulip kettle]

same

but deimos is lovely still

[stiff falcon]

That’s because the ds4 is considerably better

[cosmic sigil]

I'd rather invest in a claw (defensive), a chword

[spice veldt]

and this conversation could have been avoided if the word "bad" wasn't hyperbolically used

[tulip kettle]

right, i dont think anyone is disagreeing

[lyric burrow]

yeah im arguing its still good even on psyker

we are just comparing it to overtuned weapons

[tulip kettle]

if you have carapace and unyield on youre gun

[lyric burrow]

this does not make it bad

its just a weaker option

[tulip kettle]

you would bring illisi probably

[cosmic sigil]

Revolver / surge / recon

Illisi too

But I have use it sooo much... I take the the obscurus now to change things

[long wharf]

the psyker meta hasn't changed in quite a while

we'll see what happens with the crafting update

[lyric burrow]

theyd need to make some significant changes for uncanny weapons to not be the best option

[tulip kettle]

uncanny is the best option os DS

[buoyant maple]

run & gun M1 spam quell cancel purgatus meta

[lyric burrow]

yeah i mistyped

[cosmic sigil]

They will revisit blessings

[tulip kettle]

ah

[cosmic sigil]

So meta will change

[tulip kettle]

yes, same for brutal momentum where it can be taken

and thrust

[cosmic sigil]

Thrust?

[lyric burrow]

Headtaker a fair amount of the time

surgical

[buoyant maple]

the main one is whether uncanny gets nuked or not

if uncanny gets nuked then psyker melee meta changes

[cosmic sigil]

Outside of the chaxe and the thammer you don't really want to invest in thrust...

[tulip kettle]

lol

[stiff falcon]

Uncanny has to be nerfed

[spice veldt]

it would be an extremely missed opportunity if they didn't do blessing rebalances with the rework

[tulip kettle]

also shovels and paxe

[stiff falcon]

To maintain balance

[lyric burrow]

well ogryn shovel at least

pickaxes generally

[tulip kettle]

and slab shield

[lyric burrow]

they can go without it though

[tulip kettle]

on ogryn, its like

can i take thrust?

[buoyant maple]

thrust is pretty weapon specific

[cosmic sigil]

Karsolas and borovian can

[tulip kettle]

can i take brutal?

[lyric burrow]

yeah its mainly a branx thing

probably decent on boro

[buoyant maple]

BM should get nerfed tho
reduce target spread down to 3 maybe, then buff combat axes' base cleave to compensate

[lyric burrow]

brutal needs to be decimated

that shit is just dumb

[tulip kettle]

no

siagree

[lunar hollow]

caxe should probably get target 1-2 parity like hsword strikedowns

[tulip kettle]

they just need to make cleave work how it should work

[lunar hollow]

(and then give achlys target 1-3 parity)

[long wharf]

please, I want to keep my dinner down.

[lunar hollow]

and make bm +1 first target

[buoyant maple]

[tulip kettle]

if they fix how cleave damage distribution works then loads of perks and weapons become viable

[lyric burrow]

caxe should have at best mediocre horde clear probably

[lunar hollow]

keeps some of the identity of bm weapons while reducing the outsized gain from the bm blessing itself

[buoyant maple]

if BM is 2 targets then combat axes need quite a bit higher cleave than rn

[lyric burrow]

if its to maintain its generally good damage into all targets

[indigo portal]

Make BM like a +cleave vicious slice so that it is now weapon-specific and a different flavor of 'annoying to balance'.

[long wharf]

there was a period of time where the caxe mk 5 was the best melee weapon the psyker had

[lunar hollow]

bm would give u targets 1-3 and then caxe baseline is targets 1-2

[buoyant maple]

It should be somewhere in the avg ~ above avg tier, not top performer in horde

[lyric burrow]

yep

[long wharf]

glorious caxe 5

[tulip kettle]

just remove the cleave unit damage cap

[lyric burrow]

cause next best was uh obscurus

[lunar hollow]

there's a couple single target options that are dramatically overperforming where they probably should be for game health

[tulip kettle]

now they have removed procs on multiple targets on the same attack

such as with the crit regenerating zealot

[lyric burrow]

eh if its gonna be good into literally every target i think mid horde clear is acceptable

[long wharf]

you're making a critical error - assuming FartShart devs have any clue how to balance their game

[tulip kettle]

they can just allow weapons to damage enemies that they cleave diminishingly instead of just hard capping it

[lunar hollow]

this is how it works for almost every weapon

[lyric burrow]

its just like

mk15

[buoyant maple]

combat axe horde efficiency is kinda more atk speed dependent than cleave dependent

[lyric burrow]

that has that

a few exceptions

generally it does just diminish

[lunar hollow]

evis light sweeps and chainaxe sweeps in general

ogryn clubs

[tulip kettle]

nono

if i ignore hit mass

i am still hard capped on the number of units i can spread damage to

[cosmic sigil]

and chaxe

[lunar hollow]

because "ignore hit mass" is a misleading tooltip

[buoyant maple]

prob give combat axe light swings 6 cleave if they're to drop BM down to 2 targets

[lunar hollow]

and that's how bm used to work and it doesn't anymore

[tulip kettle]

what do you mean

[lunar hollow]

old bm was just infinite cleave

new bm is a damage/cleave carryover on weakspot kill up to an additional 3 targets

infinite cleave was equally deranged as a blessing

[tulip kettle]

right, thats the bm i know and am talking about

[lunar hollow]

you do not want to go back to old bm

[tulip kettle]

and thats what im saying

[lunar hollow]

it was just as bad

[tulip kettle]

youre capped

right but youre missing something

[long wharf]

I thoroughly enjoyed unlimited cleave

[cosmic sigil]

i am okay with nerfing bm, but if you do that, you're just pushing vets to use psword again or zealot to use hsword

[tulip kettle]

they have changed that you can no longer proc crit effects etc on multiple targets on the same attack

[cosmic sigil]

(hsword can work very much without bm)

[buoyant maple]

I think BM 2 target, combat axe light swing 6 cleave is a good compromise

[tulip kettle]

only the first

[lyric burrow]

well deathblow would get nerfed too ideally

[lunar hollow]

they didn't change that generically

they changed that for invocation

[buoyant maple]

cuz 6 cleave with 5 headtaker stacks can still hit 3 bruisers

[lunar hollow]

and then they added it for perfect timing

[buoyant maple]

4 bruiser clear efficiency is a bit busted

3 seems more reasonable

[tulip kettle]

yes this is my point

[cosmic sigil]

use a taxe and don't be bothered by bm shenanigans

[tulip kettle]

so they have now added this mechanic

[buoyant maple]

hit 3 bruiser, kill 2 from BM proc

seems reasonable

and it wouldn't outperform a lot of cleave based weapons in pure horde clear

[tulip kettle]

so you can use it to fix brutal momentum etc and now allow attacks to cleave diminishingly based on hit mass, and allow perks to ignore hit mass effects

[buoyant maple]

just because the kill efficiency is still capped by atk speed

[cosmic sigil]

i am sure they are out of ideas for fixing bm

[tulip kettle]

and it wont be as broken because you cant actually crit a million dudes or whatever

[wind spruce]

The target damage caps are so stupid

[cosmic sigil]

we had like 2 or 3 changes on that blessing

[buoyant maple]

it's rly just, reduce BM targets & buff combat axe base cleave lol

[cosmic sigil]

bm is on other weapons

[long wharf]

or, you know, stop the AI director from spawning 6 crushers, 12 ragers, and 7 bulwarks all at once

[cosmic sigil]

will you buff hsword cleave?

[buoyant maple]

yea and if it only applied first target dmg to 2 targets it's nowhere as busted as now

[cosmic sigil]

i can agree

[tulip kettle]

well you balance weapons based on their cleave stat

[long wharf]

didn't ask, don't care

[buoyant maple]

no, it already has cleave

[cosmic sigil]

i did a run and we had pretty much that

[buoyant maple]

BM's problem is that combat axes don't have any cleave beyond BM

[tulip kettle]

so if Hsword can already cleave 9 dudes you probably dont need to buff it

[wind spruce]

That would require nerfing like 3/4 of the ranged weapons at the same time, though

[buoyant maple]

so if u nerf BM target cap u have to buff combat axe cleave accordingly

[long wharf]

I don't believe FartShart capable of rebalancing the entire game

[buoyant maple]

for every other weapon that uses BM, they have inherent cleave to function without BM

[long wharf]

they have critical design flaws all over the place, made worse with every bandaid they apply

[wind spruce]

I agree

But I really shouldn't be able to do this: https://outplayed.tv/media/eQO85k

[long wharf]

frankly, it's amazing that the game is, at its core, as much fun as it is

[tulip kettle]

spicy

voidstrikes gonna void

[lyric burrow]

words cannnot express my hatred for voidstrike

[buoyant maple]

it's broken but it's also part of the power fantasy

[tulip kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/strike-bowling-bowling-ball-bowling-court-pudgy-gif-2317099103204693634

[wind spruce]

True. I do love doing things like that

[cosmic sigil]

like shovel? i don't remember the 3 having that much cleave

[wind spruce]

It's just a bit too easy

[tulip kettle]

shovel is a prime example

[cosmic sigil]

do you have to be a bitch about it?

[tulip kettle]

brutal momentum = bop 4 crushers, no bm = bop 1

[buoyant maple]

I think they went the way of +enemy spawns just because it's more fun to get higher kills in a mission compared to more impactful enemies individually but they spawn less

[tulip kettle]

change the cleave damage distribution and instead, 1 bop kills 1 crusher, the next bop kills 3

[lunar hollow]

they removed BM activing on ogryns/carapace in the sotm update

[cosmic sigil]

elite resistance fiasco?

[tulip kettle]

didnt see that tbf

[long wharf]

if you're going to act like a pissant, you're going to be treated like one

[tulip kettle]

i mainly play psyker you see 😄

[lyric burrow]

they could probably make it better than elite resist that was 2 elites all game with more health

[buoyant maple]

ogryn shovels still have up to 11.1 cleave on heavy sweep

combat axe has 1.5

[cosmic sigil]

i had already moved on, old man.

[cosmic sigil]

vet shovel

[upper galleon]

elite resistance was a modifier that was basically less enemies, but they had more health and were harder to stagger (and I think did more damage?)

shotgunners were deadly

[buoyant maple]

vet shovel doesn't have BM

[wind spruce]

And to be fair, it's balanced somewhat by ogryn enemies... if I'd had a single crushed or bulwark in the way that wouldn't have scaled so crazily

[cosmic sigil]

????

ahh shit

it has thrust

[buoyant maple]

yea it doesn't

[long wharf]

I wish the pickaxes swung faster, the most fun I've had in Darktide to date was on a scab only melee maelstrom with a max-rolled branx

[cosmic sigil]

for some reason they give bm to ogryns

[buoyant maple]

high cleave on ranged weapon is just really funny

[long wharf]

I wanted my ogryn to yell "I am the crusher now"

[wind spruce]

Kill feed dopamine

[buoyant maple]

cuz ogryn melee has pretty meh horde clear speed overall

[cosmic sigil]

i don't remeber that part, but i do remember everybody using bolter and surge

[buoyant maple]

it's broken but in a fun way

[cosmic sigil]

knife users would disagree

[buoyant maple]

cleaver horde clear is ok, they just suck vs carapace

[cosmic sigil]

also, kickback horde clear is real

[cosmic sigil]

not a problem with the ripper

[rich jolt]

I mean i use knife heavy hitter and all the other classes in my experience can do it faster

[lyric burrow]

pickaxes have decent horde clear although the branx does it slowly in terms of swinging, the benefit being killing 45000 guys per swing

[buoyant maple]

ogryn melee has very high cleave & stagger but the actual kill speeds aren't that impressive

[long wharf]

ogryn with bull butcher cleaver using only lights will tear through a horde super easily

[cosmic sigil]

yeah i agree

[long wharf]

bull butcher with BM and slaughterer

[cosmic sigil]

even if you're still pissy about that

[long wharf]

= easy mode

[buoyant maple]

cleaver doesn't have BM

[long wharf]

or slaughterer + confident strike

[cosmic sigil]

slaughterer and confident strike

[lyric burrow]

i havent seen a ogryn using BB in months

[cosmic sigil]

tank all day

[long wharf]

yeah my bad, forgot no BM on ogryn knives

[lyric burrow]

namely because its all you used on ogryn until patch 13

[buoyant maple]

I believe in borovian supremacy

[long wharf]

the pickaxes are a lot of fun, but swing too slowly

[rich jolt]

Well they are a two handed ogryn weapon

[cosmic sigil]

people are trying new things... and considering the amount of armored elites spawning...

[long wharf]

I absolutely love crunching things with the branx

[buoyant maple]

I personally think pickaxes are the most versatile ogryn melees rn

[lyric burrow]

ehh making them swing faster is probably getting into dangerous territory, they murder everything

like borderline built in BM on elites

maybe for branx

[long wharf]

but I wish it had the pull special of the other variants instead of the poke

[buoyant maple]

they're strong on heavy hitter, but work as pretty good all rounder for gun ogryn too

[lyric burrow]

cause it has some really slow chaining into pushes for dogs and stuff

[buoyant maple]

this is why borovian supremacy

[long wharf]

the borovian doesn't hit nearly as hard as the branx

[lyric burrow]

branx special is sad though

[buoyant maple]

it's pretty close

[long wharf]

branx with thrust can one-shot basically everything but bosses

[lyric burrow]

borovian still hits a lot of 1 shot BPs

[long wharf]

it's pretty gross

[buoyant maple]

borovian hits same breakpoints but need more conditional stuff

the upside is borovian has better special, better move speed, better atk speed & easier access sweep

[long wharf]

but the branx makes me feel like a superior crusher

and on the occassion when a dash attack is the upwards swing, seeing bodies ragdoll makes the dopamine squirt

[buoyant maple]

slide L1 uppercut > H2 overhead > L3 overhead > hook > H2 overhead > L3 overhead

peak cinema

[lyric burrow]

the sliding attacks are great

i hope more weapons get them

[tulip kettle]

and what about this new shock maul thing

[long wharf]

apparently it's really good at staggering things

[buoyant maple]

Indignatus is ok

[long wharf]

I haven't played with it myself

[buoyant maple]

I personally think it’s top 5 melee for every class that has it available

[tulip kettle]

ive not looked at it much, but i have access to thrust, overwhelming and opportunist so far

[upper galleon]

best combo imo is perfect timing+ skullcrusher or high voltage

[lyric burrow]

they are p decent

[tulip kettle]

i guess i need to see its moveset to see how i want to build it

[buoyant maple]

I think lightning reflexes + skullcrusher tbh

[lyric burrow]

take boss damage with them though

[buoyant maple]

I checked stagger breakpoints

For some reason it has really low maniac stagger

[lyric burrow]

like a gun thats good into unyielding i mean

or staff

its the main weakness of them

[buoyant maple]

Yea shock mauls aren’t bad for gunpsyker

[tulip kettle]

i think because it has access to stuff that makes it ignore stagger resistance right?

what is the special, like the crusher power up? a poke?

[lyric burrow]

its a stun

[buoyant maple]

It’s a slow wind-up taser move

[lyric burrow]

and applies a status effect

[long wharf]

it's basically an oversized taser

[buoyant maple]

You can get punished by ragers very hard while doing it

[tulip kettle]

right i see

[buoyant maple]

It’s just better to go lightning reflexes and time ur blocks

[tulip kettle]

so overwhelming actually seems great

[buoyant maple]

Overwhelming is bad

[tulip kettle]

as stagger ignores the damage cap on cleave

[buoyant maple]

LR is way better

[tulip kettle]

what does LR do

[buoyant maple]

LR is 25% chance to stun with CD

[tulip kettle]

so why not both?

[buoyant maple]

LR is perfect block gives +25% melee power for 3s and stuns attacker

[buoyant maple]

Because skullcrusher is up to +80% dmg and idk why you’d pass on that

[lyric burrow]

oppurtunist ends up having a similar issue to Kinetic flayer honestly

[upper galleon]

Perfect timing is lightning reflexes

[lyric burrow]

and skullcrusher is a billion free damage

[upper galleon]

Smaul has trouble hitting high skullcrusher values

[lyric burrow]

high voltage works too

[buoyant maple]

They changed name to lightning reflexes so that’s what I’m using
Also pretty sure perfect timing is a psyker talent

[upper galleon]

High voltage is easy asf to proc, any of your swings that make a shock sfx procs it

[lyric burrow]

perfect timing is a psyker talent ye

[long wharf]

I'd be concerned with how frequently you can get LR to proc

[restive ice]

knock down the enemy and use special attack so it looks like you’re ramming it up their anus

[buoyant maple]

U basically just block ragers

Anything that’s not overhead, u can block

[tulip kettle]

i think if i have 25% chance to stun on stagger

[buoyant maple]

It also guarantee stuns everything

[upper galleon]

As many times as you can in the time window

[tulip kettle]

and 100% stagger resistance reduction

[upper galleon]

That’s garbo tbh

[buoyant maple]

LR doesn’t have internal cooldown

[upper galleon]

Both of them

[buoyant maple]

Overwhelming is just not worth it

[long wharf]

sure, but I was talking more about server lag interfering with the timing window

[upper galleon]

If it’s staggered, stun is not doing much

[tulip kettle]

provided the weapon itself has a wide cleave that can stagger 10+ targets it seems very good

[buoyant maple]

It’s pretty generous actually

[upper galleon]

It is more forgiving then dclaw parry

[long wharf]

alright

[upper galleon]

And dclaw parry is easy asf

[upper galleon]

Basically already doing that baseline

[tulip kettle]

by 10+ i mean hit mass

[buoyant maple]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1185515538475134998/1262793381310890115/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.07.15_-_23.25.42.01.mp4?ex=669e7afb&is=669d297b&hm=ff2fdfcb47699ad955820af4c344682e2f37b74d24010faf3884a957576b3d04&

[tulip kettle]

yeah great then

[upper galleon]

You could go falter skullcrusher i guess

But LR is too good imo

[tulip kettle]

so if i go falter and and overwhelming

[upper galleon]

Utility and power

[buoyant maple]

U can pre block before they hit and it still counts

[tulip kettle]

and swing into rager crowds

it will just stun them all

[upper galleon]

Or just take LR

No

It has low maniac stagger

And the stun itself is rng

[tulip kettle]

but i have falter

[upper galleon]

Low rng as well for what it does

[upper galleon]

Read it out

[tulip kettle]

it ignores stagger resistance no?

[upper galleon]

Yes, it doesn’t give more stagger

[buoyant maple]

At that point just take EP smite tbh

[upper galleon]

Sure you ignore the maniac stagger resist but it doesn’t buff it’s low maniac stagger value

Just go LR

Same anti rager but actually give you damage as well on top of it

And is reliable

No risk

[tulip kettle]

i like the idea of swinging into the crowd of ragers and stunning multiple per swing for 3.5 secs and actually doing damage

[buoyant maple]

The problem is not stagger resist, the problem is that for some reason shock maul’s heavy sweep has only 7 stagger on maniac

[tulip kettle]

i dont know if i WILL be able to do that

[upper galleon]

There is like one case you could go falter skullcrusher but wasting 2 slots on utility blessings is troll

[tulip kettle]

it only needs a stagger of 1 to proc overwhelm though i assume

[upper galleon]

Then go play zealot with the power maul

[buoyant maple]

No, it needs successful stagger

[upper galleon]

Ngl

[tulip kettle]

this IS me playing zealot power maul

on my psyker

you see

[buoyant maple]

It’s not just “valid stagger”, it requires “successful stagger”

[upper galleon]

Okay so it’s clearly not getting to you

[tulip kettle]

mhmm i see

[buoyant maple]

Also fyi both surge staff and smite apply electrocution

[tulip kettle]

lol you need to relax my guy

[upper galleon]

Chance to stun on successful stagger vs stun on time block

[tulip kettle]

im not saying its GOOD

its just what i want to build

you guys are insane

[upper galleon]

I am, massively relaxed and stopped taking you seriously

[upper galleon]

Oh wait let me grab a copypasta

[tulip kettle]

and if you are saying it requires an actual stagger animation to proc the stun chance

then i agree this probably wont work

[buoyant maple]

It does

I checked all the blessings & mechanics related to shock maul

[upper galleon]

All I did was post my fucking build and y’all went for my throat talking down on it like a bunch of toxic trolls you didn’t have to say anything if u don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything but naw y’all wanna be animals like every other troll and thru the safety of the internet you run your mouth and then talk smack about me it’s ridiculous and not fair of anyone to treat some one like that and u have the audacity to say I’m going thru somthing nah you and all the other trolls like you need to get over what your going thru and act right

[tulip kettle]

but i guess i can also just shriek at them then smack thgem

[buoyant maple]

Electrocution is not explained very well

Electrocution is also based on successful stagger

[upper galleon]

That’s true

Electrocution can be proc’d at it’s 0 dps status from like half your swings

It’s the special that as the damaging DOT

[cosmic sigil]

All I did was post about chainswords and y’all went for my throat talking down on it like a bunch of toxic trolls you didn’t have to say anything if u don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything but naw y’all wanna be animals like every other troll and thru the safety of the internet you run your mouth and then talk smack about me it’s ridiculous and not fair of anyone to treat some one like that and u have the audacity to say I’m going thru somthing nah you and all the other trolls like you need to get over what your going thru and act right

oh damn, it works well

[buoyant maple]

In terms of skullcrusher vs HV

Skullcrusher hits way higher numbers but is only working while target is in stagger animation

HV hits lower numbers but electrocution status lasts almost 2x as long as the stagger animation itself so it’s a bit more consistent in uptime

[long wharf]

so you want to cry about acting like a child?

[tulip kettle]

i just want a weapon

that when i swing it into 20 poxwalkers

something happens to those 20 poxwalkers

[upper galleon]

No i can’t read intent over text whether you are asking for genuine advice or not, don’t take it personnel

[cosmic sigil]

it's a meme, get over it Pfhoenix

[tulip kettle]

that isnt the slab shield or ironhelm

[cosmic sigil]

you are the childish one

[rich jolt]

Why are you fools being mean to eachother

[upper galleon]

Can you two just kiss or block each other

[tulip kettle]

true name though

[upper galleon]

Maybe both

[tulip kettle]

i tried the bolt pistol today

my question is - why?

[cosmic sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/fake-kiss-viralhog-kiss-my-hand-blocked-kiss-no-kiss-for-you-gif-27149505

[upper galleon]

Bistol has one thing and it’s damage

[tulip kettle]

but it does less damage than my zarona

[upper galleon]

Not really if built right

It can oneshot crushers on vet

[buoyant maple]

Yea unfortunately it’s not a contender for #1 or #2 best ranged weapon in the game

[upper galleon]

But that is it’s only thing, no cleave, bad recoil,

[upper galleon]

Well except infested damage but tbh most ranged guns need to have nerfed infested damage

[tulip kettle]

this is what i built to try out on my crit zealot

with like 10 mins of shopping and low effort

[upper galleon]

Going for the 200% double crit ehh?

[cosmic sigil]

i would use puncture instead of point blank tho

[tulip kettle]

and it felt a lot worse than this

[upper galleon]

DA surgical is solid, so is lethal proximity and puncture

Oh wow

New gun doesn’t compete with the best all class gun in the game

Breaking

[tulip kettle]

right but like

its just like

[cosmic sigil]

why lethal?

[tulip kettle]

the same gun, right?

[buoyant maple]

Lethal proximity is a meme

[upper galleon]

Cause close quarters the round won’t detonate

[tulip kettle]

why didnt they give it the same blessings as the big bolter

[cosmic sigil]

because surgical on its own is not good?

[tulip kettle]

so i can stack a load of brittle and rending

instead its just crappier revolver

[upper galleon]

Pinning fire would be even worse than the current blessings

And so would shattering lmao

It’s a fine mid tier item

You dont even have bis

You got a 170% crit chance for some reason no DA or puncture

[cosmic sigil]

yeah but huuu, why?

[tulip kettle]

the gun has 120% crit chance base or?

im confused

[cosmic sigil]

don't you want to use lethal with execution?

[buoyant maple]

Execution is also a meme fyi

[cosmic sigil]

i used surgical + puncture most of the time

[buoyant maple]

Execution & lethal prox are both meme tier blessings

[upper galleon]

100% surgical, 18% point blank, base crit chance, and blazing piety and slap on the rest as an exaggeration

[tulip kettle]

lol imagine aiming for more than .3 of a second

[upper galleon]

Yea it is called guaranteeing your BPs

[cosmic sigil]

well, i have experience aiming with the boltgun

[upper galleon]

Once you know your crit chance you dont even fullstack surgical

[buoyant maple]

It doesn’t guarantee breakpoints it just gives u more Crit chance on avg

[tulip kettle]

right

[buoyant maple]

Usually it’s 20~30% Crit chance (including base Crit chance)

It’s still good

[tulip kettle]

and as i said, i built this in 10 mins from a blank start with no blessings and no clue

[upper galleon]

What

[buoyant maple]

And if u need to aim for a long range target you’ll prob stack enough to get a guaranteed Crit

[tulip kettle]

are there blessings that give rending? are there blessings that give power?

[buoyant maple]

Too bad

[upper galleon]

I mean yea im specifically talking about crit zealot and like, deadshot vet

[cosmic sigil]

that's still solid

[tulip kettle]

on the bolt pistol specifically

[upper galleon]

Where surgical hit 100% crit chance for you

[upper galleon]

Deadly accurate

[tulip kettle]

it does what

[buoyant maple]

Getting more Crit chance doesn’t “guarantee breakpoints”, it just helps u achieve Crit-related breakpoints more consistently
Guarantee would be 100% consistent which it’s not most of the time

[upper galleon]

Best single hit blessing, puncture being better for trashier mobs

[tulip kettle]

but what does it DO

[upper galleon]

Wdym it’s a fixed charge rate you can go install the crit chance mod

[buoyant maple]

Deadly accurate +100% crit weakspot dmg

[tulip kettle]

right i see

[buoyant maple]

Yea, as long as it’s not a 100% guaranteed crit, it doesn’t “guarantee breakpoints”

Surgical doesn’t reach 10 stacks most of the time

[upper galleon]

You dont need 10

Hell most builds need 5 or less

[buoyant maple]

I know you don’t need 10

[tulip kettle]

more crits on it was because i dont have DA

[buoyant maple]

But it’s not “guarantee breakpoints”

[cosmic sigil]

i one tap gunners, flamers, shotgunners with 6 warp charges, maybe less with unarmored / maniac

[tulip kettle]

i would rather see a crit every shot

[upper galleon]

It guarantees the crit which means you can play around with crit BPs as your main BP

[tulip kettle]

and ultimately

[buoyant maple]

Guaranteed breakpoint is X amount of shots to kill regardless of any stacks

[upper galleon]

Idk why we are having such a pedantic conversation

[tulip kettle]

i am wanting this to kill crushers and sniper gunners and snipers and such

[upper galleon]

Oh boo hoo i clarified move on

Witches be crazy

[tulip kettle]

which i cant see any build that the zarona isnt just straight better in every regard

on every class

[buoyant maple]

I’m not a psyker main

[upper galleon]

Me neither

[tulip kettle]

that was my take after throwing it together in 10 mins

and i dont think DA will fix that

[upper galleon]

Vet can run it for a niche crusher popper in a meme build

[cosmic sigil]

it's not fair to compare it to the zarona

[tulip kettle]

why is it not

[upper galleon]

And it’s not about being as good or better with zarona

[tulip kettle]

its a gun for the same niche

thats specifically what it should be compared to

[upper galleon]

Cause every gun except plasma and ciag don’t compared to zarona xd

[cosmic sigil]

i would not compare a weapon to the top one

[tulip kettle]

hard disagree

[upper galleon]

You dont need zarona to clear auric maels

[tulip kettle]

plenty of guns have their place

[upper galleon]

Go run mk7 HH and agri shotgun

[tulip kettle]

for different uses

[upper galleon]

Well, agri shotgun got buffs so it’s a bit of a sidegrade now

[tulip kettle]

but i want a pistol for mobility + carapace popping

else i will run a laspistol, or a flamer, or a bolter, etc

[buoyant maple]

Honestly if ur gonna run boltpistol just treat it as a “fun experimental” gun

[tulip kettle]

this was my take

[buoyant maple]

It doesn’t really hit top 5 levels of strength

[tulip kettle]

its just a worse zarona with added flavour

[buoyant maple]

On any class it’s available to

But it’s a cool weapon and I’d rather they’ve added it than not

[cosmic sigil]

nerf zarona, period

[tulip kettle]

if they made it have higher aoe stagger and 12 rounds

it would be a cool sidegrade

plus pinning fire

[buoyant maple]

It needs reduced sway

I’m not sure why boltpistol is the only gun in the game with 80 sway

[cosmic sigil]

that will probably be fixed with the boltgun ads rework hinted by telopots

[tulip kettle]

it can then kill crushers on the same level as zarona and snipe distant single specials and fill the same niche with a different style

[buoyant maple]

Guess commissars never learnt how to shoot straight with these things

[tulip kettle]

instead its just worse

[buoyant maple]

The AoE stagger is the same as Boltgun, but it doesn’t have cleave

[upper galleon]

Why you hyperfixated on pinning

[buoyant maple]

Boltpistol is the only gun in the game with 0.001 cleave

[cosmic sigil]

why do you want to os crusher?

[tulip kettle]

why are you such an aggro douchebag

[upper galleon]

It’s not even a great blessing anymore it’s 25% after either pre nading or repeated fire

[tulip kettle]

it never was great

it helps the weapon do the job i want it for

[upper galleon]

It was great lol wdym

[tulip kettle]

its not that deep

[cosmic sigil]

having weapons osing dangerous elites are not really healthy

[tulip kettle]

omg

easiest block of my life

i dont want it to 1 shot them

[cosmic sigil]

psyker chat having heated discussion this morning

[upper galleon]

But pinning specifically doesn’t do anything for bistol idk and pinning used to be 100%

[cosmic sigil]

peril itensifies

[tulip kettle]

i want the bolt pistol to consistently kill 2-3 crushers with a mag, same as the zarona

it does not do that

[upper galleon]

Oh yea you wanna stagger and stunlock enemies around

[buoyant maple]

Zarona kills 2.5

[upper galleon]

It does on vet, better than zarona, but you have near bis revolver vs a random bistol

[cosmic sigil]

zarona has a mag of 5 bullets tho

[tulip kettle]

what is 2-3

[buoyant maple]

Boltpistol can kinda reach 2 shot crusher

[tulip kettle]

if not 2.5

[upper galleon]

Bistol can one tap crushers

[upper galleon]

This is more reliable tho

[buoyant maple]

But not on psyker I’m afraid

[tulip kettle]

idk my experience was not that in the one i just played

[buoyant maple]

Or zealot

[tulip kettle]

it was, zarona maybe 6 shot a crusher

[cosmic sigil]

with exec stance?

[tulip kettle]

on my zealot with 100% crit rate build and 20% carapace

[buoyant maple]

Boltpistol on veteran can reach 2 shot crusher or in meme builds, 1 shot crusher

[upper galleon]

Exec stance and marksman keystone

[tulip kettle]

sorry bolt pistol 6 shots the crusher, then 2 left over for the next one

[cosmic sigil]

ohh not focus target??

[upper galleon]

Lol not it doesn’t

[tulip kettle]

zarona kills 2 or 3 if i get good crits

[buoyant maple]

Marksman focus is higher scaling for meme builds

[cosmic sigil]

does bistol benefit from finesse?

[buoyant maple]

Yes

[upper galleon]

Yes

[cosmic sigil]

i know boltgun does but you can do without

hmm

i need to test that then

[buoyant maple]

Not worth going for tbh

[cosmic sigil]

i run taxes

[upper galleon]

Hence why DA vs puncture, puncture helps vs low tier elites like gunners and shit, cause they will be a fixed bleed out

But deadly accurate just makes you hit hard

[buoyant maple]

Run & gun

Run & gun’s 12% close dmg buff actually gives u the same breakpoints

U just have to sprint to get it

[cosmic sigil]

that was my experience on vet yeah

[buoyant maple]

Also run & gun gives u instant sprint to fire (which bolt pistol doesn’t innately have)

And significantly reduced Hipfire spread