psyker-class

[upper sun]

but like bro play your game ammo isnt a problem

[dim parrot]

ye psyker definitely isn't the most favorite child

[prime elk]

psyker's my second most-played class

[upper sun]

man just look at the cosmetics

[prime elk]

it can be punishing but i feel like the survivability is ok actually

[lyric burrow]

psykers survivability is p decent

we have so much toughness gen

[upper sun]

most of our gear looks like it was made from whatever leftovers the forgemasters had for everyone else

[prime elk]

urinal bowls are my favorite head cosmetics

https://tenor.com/view/ben-stiller-acting-tough-tough-strut-gif-7551880

me swaggering into auric with a massive urinal bowl flee collar thingy around my neck

[dim parrot]

there is a reason that I still wear the penance headpiece

[lyric burrow]

yeah the visor is good

[upper sun]

the best one is the face mask from penance

[lyric burrow]

i wore it forever till there was some paid stuff i liked

[prime elk]

but then it covers your glowy eyes

and that's like the best part

[dim parrot]

exactly the one I wear

[radiant frigate]

Real

[ornate hamlet]

REAL AND TRUE REAL AND TRUE REAL AND TRUE REAL AND TRUE

[dim parrot]

our glowy eyes are quite beautiful yes

[upper sun]

i got the artesan white set without the helmet

everything else is too weird

vet and zealot have nice stuff from the docket shop IF i played ogryn i would buy something for him

[radiant frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-hello-cat-peek-cat-door-cat-peek-door-gif-17361470248875227911

[ornate hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-lurking-gif-22179921

[radiant frigate]

psyker cosmetics are Not Particularly Good

[dim parrot]

https://tenor.com/view/peeking-cat-peep-gif-12767006

[radiant frigate]

i would like less tubes

[compact bluff]

what do you mean? toilet bowl helmets are clearly the greatest design possible

[dim parrot]

I just want a good looking headpieces smh

[mighty fractal]

the Krieg coat fulfills my drab cloak requirement for now

Some nice dark hoods that don't look like trash bags would be nice

[upper sun]

same also maybe less neck stuff so it doesmt mesh with some hair styles

[mighty fractal]

Oh, give us some of the datamined hairstyles too please 🙂

[upper sun]

just fix the poney tail

[radiant frigate]

i wish for a good ponytail

though i can manage with diet battle sister

[cunning plinth]

question, since i just rolled it

is there a trick to the blaze trauma staff or do you use it like you would use another trauma staff, but this time with crit fire

[radiant frigate]

something like "stay high on peril and fish for crits"

[cunning plinth]

charged attacks mostly or normals too

[radiant frigate]

what, the bolts?

for faraway targets perhaps

[little rapids]

i think blaze trauma gets value out of not always fully charging the attacks

since u can apply crit soulblaze with 1% charge or 100% charge

[near drift]

U telling me to do the smaller number instead of the bigger number, boy u done lost ya mind

[ionic needle]

Randomly got this from big e after a run, it rolled very well but is the gun any good?

[silent socket]

That-

That’s a good roll-

[ionic needle]

Yeah haha

[silent socket]

I mean I’m not an expert since I mainly use staves and stuff but

[ionic needle]

I saw the t4 dumdum and was about to extract it but then I noticed how well it rolled

[silent socket]

Gaddayum

Uhhh my advice?

Wait for someone with better judgement to come along

[ionic needle]

I should stick on my gun build and try it out as is

[silent socket]

Because I’m kinda dumb

[ionic needle]

Maybe check the guide

[ionic needle]

Haha

[silent socket]

Yeah I guess like set up a gunker build experiment with it on damnation (not auric) and see how well you do least that’s how I test builds

[spice veldt]

it's a recon lasgun so not particularly good

[ionic needle]

Maybe just keep it around for if a patch rolls around and it blows up

[silent socket]

Best environment is a live fire test environment

[spice veldt]

yeah hopefully

[silent socket]

I mean you never know

Maybe this is the “exception” to the ‘recon lasgun stinky’ situation lol

Like I said live-fire testing never killed anyone

[ionic needle]

I like how it has zero recoil, definitely giving it a shot

[dim wren]

not bad for no re-blessing or refining lol

[untold niche]

toilet B Ö W L helmets

[upper sun]

damn t5 run?

[untold meteor]

siblings has anyone actually tested if surge works on charged attacks for this staff? these are the last 2 t4's I need to get and i'm already leaning towards flurry as it is

[plucky flax]

Nein

[untold meteor]

figured

flurry it is

[plucky flax]

You can do the funny left click spam meme though

[untold meteor]

already got the bowling ball for that

it is hilarious how strong it is even in auric

[little rapids]

what perks do u put on surge staff

[plucky perch]

crit chance, and unlimited power

[little rapids]

charge rate too low for me but this is beautiful

[untold meteor]

charge rate is worthless on voidstrike

look at its range

from 0-100%

[little rapids]

oh yeah

its like .05 seconds right

i forgor

perfect then i guess

[untold meteor]

yeah the one staff that doesn't need it

[little rapids]

welll could be 380

xd

yeah its buggy for me too

[little rapids]

what is unlimited power perk

never seen it

[plucky perch]

ill make the joke easy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg14jNbBb-8

[little rapids]

ohh that perk yeah

[plucky perch]

i go for maniac carapace or flak in the off chance you fail to crit even once will sve you a cast against those respective enemies

im not 100% sure what could be considered optimal

[little rapids]

right now i have flak unyielding, not out of choice

just what i was dealt

[plucky perch]

while it doesnt mesh with ability, surge meshes well with almost every talent on the right side +5% crit chance isnt nessaracy just a further bit of solid crit chance

[little rapids]

oh yea i almost always get crit chance talent

and aura too usually

[plucky perch]

its barely needed on most of our staffs but benifits the surge sooo good

[little rapids]

nooo i use it on like all of them

purgatus needs crit

voidstrike with surge needs crit

i only dont build crit on rending trauma

[plucky perch]

i dont think i ever tried for surge not sure i have it even now

[little rapids]

its so good

[rigid sky]

Gun wants crit too

Mettle wants crit

Psyker is a more crit dependent class

Zealot too I guess because of that crazy CDR node

[mighty fractal]

I’m hoping that whatever staff we get next isn’t crit-focused, just for a change of pace

But then it would interact with like half of Psyker’s damage talents

[hollow current]

it'll be a staff that's in the shape of a gun and have a trigger

[mighty fractal]

If we get a Coruscation copy, the fire puddles would still want crit for the Perfect Timing buff

Since PT is one of the few things on the tree that buffs Soulblaze damage

If it’s a beam staff copy, then maybe it would be fine without crit…? Depends on how it’s implemented

Part of the reason why Corsucation is so strong in VT2 is because Battle Wizard has important talents that massively buff burn damage for very little effort

I think FS wanted to avoid a BW 2.0, so they explicitly gimped Psyker’s ability to deal burn damage outside of a couple builds

[barren dome]

what is the setup to clear hordes with surge? I just had somebody in game who spammed it against hordes and did good trash damage

almost no warpfire, all ranged damage

[feral verge]

There is no setup

Using surge vs hordes is a bad idea

[barren dome]

I thought so too

but somehow it worked o.O

[feral verge]

It's designed as a single target weapon

[barren dome]

maybe we were all just baddies though

[feral verge]

More than likely, yeah. Not trying to be a dick. But using surge for hordeclear is like trying to push a wheelbarrow uphill with a rope

[prime elk]

a weapon that only hits like two dudes at a time being used for horde clear 🤔

[feral verge]

If you want lightning horde shenanigans, use smite

[feral verge]

And even then it does biggish damage to the first target, and very minimal damage to second target

[prime elk]

yeah

[cosmic sigil]

we burned atoma

[prime elk]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-saved-the-city-spongebob-squarepants-we-saved-the-city-gif-7879261153627679688

[rotund fable]

Brunt is trying to sell me a staff I don't know how to use/build for. it seems to have decent base stats, but i don't know if i should grab it or not.

[cosmic sigil]

regular t5 but the ogry had all the ammo he weanted for rumbling

[orchid shadow]

I think the charge speed isn't as high as you'd want it, but you can still get it and hope the next two rolls are good.

That's if you feel like trying to get a Trauma build going.

[eager token]

helldivers servers down again time for darktide

[rotund fable]

Eh... I think hadron bricked it

[prime elk]

yeah that's a F

[rotund fable]

Brunt saw what hadron did and is trying to sell me the agripina revolver...

do i dare to see what hadron does to this?

[cosmic sigil]

Yes

One bad perk and one mid blessing

[prime elk]

that's already 80% bricked

[cosmic sigil]

What could go wrong

[prime elk]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-dewit-gif-11426456

[hollow current]

Hey, this looks pretty good.

ugly boots tho

[rotund fable]

Eh... it's still bricked, but i at least got a tier 4 blessing out of it...

[hollow current]

when the blessing is terrifying barrage lmao

[rotund fable]

A tier 4 is a tier 4, even if that tier 4 is crap...

[prime elk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/899170731324243988.webp?size=48&name=copium~1&quality=lossless

[rotund fable]

besides, i didn't really have high hopes for the thing to compete with this semi-scuffed Zerona I've got

perk setup isn't perfect, and reload is a bit slow, but it SLAPS

[cosmic sigil]

Do you get a specific bp with carapace?

Maybe elite could do the same but it's broader

[rotund fable]

Lets me combo a garunteed body-shot crit from true aim into a headshot for a quick mauler 2-tap in those "Oh crap, i am being swarmed" moments

Brunt sold me the maccabian mk4 dueling toothpick...

[hollow current]

[little rapids]

smite enjoyers

do you think enfeeble/lightning storm are worth it

[eager token]

no

talents are better used elsewhere

[silent socket]

Brain blast go brrrr

“What did you kill?l”
“I dunno go around the wall of warp fire-“

[cosmic sigil]

I am trying blaze trauma @plucky flax but I think I am too conservative with my charges management. Looking at your gameplay I do not vent enough

[lethal lagoon]

No jump versus Jump

In a real game I can't see it being that impactful except that it might hook someone about to flank you/behind you, but that's kind of a negative from a playstyle perspective.

You should just work on better positioning than rely on something like that.

[austere crest]

^^

positioning is everything, planning and understanding the room/scenario and upcoming scenario is everything

[plucky flax]

Yeah spam it. If you have 6 warp charges it's like 13s cd. No need to hold it.

[cosmic sigil]

Do you wait for 6 wc before venting?

[plucky flax]

No if I have over 83% peril I vent

[ornate hamlet]

Forgive me, but what were the optimal perks/stats again?

I meant blessings

is this a good roll?

[hollow current]

shid, baby. that's gold right there.

[hollow current]

unyielding to flak and riposte to uncanny is my reccomendation

[eager token]

leave riposte

precog to uncanny

[hollow current]

[plucky flax]

I'd go maniac carapace myself.

[hollow current]

HOLY DUMP STAT

[eager token]

that sword was born in the warp

[sullen sphinx]

New Tzeentch's gift just dropped

[hollow current]

I won't let Hadron touch it.

[rigid sky]

7 days until I can likely play again now :|

[fair spruce]

I have another one that's 0% penetration but I get made fun of when I whip that one out

[hollow current]

A shovel axe that's stuck in the ground

[fair spruce]

you sprint more slowly than you move normally

[radiant frigate]

does this root you in place

[fair spruce]

I sprint slower than I move normally

so what I've done is, paired it with a 1% damage 80 80 79 79 shredder pistol

so I achieve lightspeed with the pistol to close distance and then root myself in place swapping to the axe to kill

[rigid sky]

Pain and suffering brings you closer to The Emperor

[fair spruce]

I am angry with myself for thinking of this

it's like punishment for sins I've yet to commit

[rigid sky]

Be your own commissar

[tacit stump]

uhm beside normal force swords are there other force meele weapon we can give the psyker out of the wh 40k lore

[potent echo]

Force spork

In the fiction there's all sorts of force weapons, including force halberds

[tacit stump]

i would like a force greatsword which behaves like a heavier illisy with strikedown heavy and horizontal lights

[mighty fractal]

Pretty much anything that's a regular melee weapon can be made as a force weapon

[potent echo]

Definitely in the works (hopefully)

[mighty fractal]

Swords, axes, daggers, hammers, spears, halberds

Unfortunately, a lot of them are associated only with Grey Knights

[radiant frigate]

so.. mk XV eviscerator, force edition

but yes i would love a force greatsword

or would i?

illisi is so comfy

[spice veldt]

hopefully the 2h force swords are an excuse to finally rework activation specials

[plucky flax]

Don't worry another premium cosmetics hotfix will drop soon nextweek for the next batch of shitty sets.

[little rapids]

Fatshark can keep me happy by slowly dropping force staff and force sword cosmetics

[upper sun]

blaze force knives pls

[lyric burrow]

Did stan get you too

[lunar hollow]

socks.

[lyric burrow]

Socks.

[rigid sky]

Latrine shovel

Come on cowards

[upper sun]

Ive never seen anything with a dump stat lower than 50% nice

tho the special attack is gonna be like 30 peril

[rigid sky]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/cCcXxi3f2m behold some terrible takes

Lots of Kinetic flayer simps

[spice veldt]

and with the help of mods, my identity was forcefully changed

[lyric burrow]

Ah

@near bluff good work

[cosmic sigil]

Hi socks

[spice veldt]

he doesn't need any positive reinforcement for this abuse of power

[cosmic sigil]

There is justice.

[ionic needle]

t5 maelstrom

[lyric burrow]

This name suits you better

[spice veldt]

no

[wet belfry]

Socks to be you

[ionic needle]

Tried out the accatran recon lasgun now and it's not great

[urban sandal]

none of the lasguns are that great

[ionic needle]

It did well enough but damn is the ammo economy not good

Kind of funny how the damage from infernus just barely beats PC

[rigid sky]

It's gotta be a CIAG if you want good results

[silent socket]

guys!!!!! there adding chaos space marine class!!!!!!

[ionic needle]

I know all about the CIAG, it's just that I run it on both psyker and vet and got this ridiculously well rolled lasgun yesterday

My CIAG is pretty ridiculous too tbh

[spice veldt]

death

[hearty narwhal]

My beloved said because I've been a bad boy they're taking away my vagina privileges

[quick python]

https://tenor.com/view/ultrasad-gif-23310565

[wind spruce]

There's literally one person who says kinetic flayer is good on that thread

[patent wing]

is lightning storm still only on left click?

[patent wing]

warp flurry and warp nexus are generally good, on trauma u can swap flurry for blazing spirit and on voidstrike for surge

i use this:

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9b5b9a76-4083-4360-8d79-1fb7a1b97b2b/purge-3

well when using purge staff u will notice it sucks against bulwarks and crushers so u need a melee weapon thats good against crushers and bulwarks

and deimos or duel sword mk4 are both good vs crushers (deimos has better wave clear additionally but less mobility)=

[cosmic sigil]

Look at the pinned comment, there's a pinned guide

[patent wing]

if u like illisi more u could use blazing spirit + uncanny strike because rending will increase soul blaze dmg against armored targets by alot

personally i think deimos fits the purge staff because it can open bulwarks with special attack, clear hordes better than duel sword, has inherent dmg against armor and even can knock down a crusher squad with 2 push attacks

[spice veldt]

blazing spirit is not a good blessing on force swords and triply so if you already have purg

[patent wing]

yeah it was just a weird idea to make illisi work against armored targets even more

[spice veldt]

soulblaze doesn't quite stack like soulblaze blessing + soulblaze blessing

if you're going to go for soulblaze + uncanny, just apply soulblaze with purg first and then swap to melee for crushers

similar to what zealots do with flamer + chastise

[urban sandal]

depends on the staff, check the guide in the pins

[safe vigil]

I know there isn't an objective best roll on weapons. But what would be mostly sought after for Purgatus staff and Illisi Force sword?

Also, is there anyone who would be willing to aid be in getting my last penance, that being "Malleus Monstronum"?

[little rapids]

purgatus you probably want warp nexus as a blessing

there aren’t many very other amazing ones

I guess you could do run and gun if you find it fun. A lot of people run warp flurry, it helps too

and you want high cloud radius and burn, don’t care too much about the peril stats

perk I think flak and crit?

[upper sun]

Is it just me or does uncanny sometimes apply when you dont hit a weakspot on infested enemies

[spice veldt]

without an orange hitmarker?

[upper sun]

ye

either im hitting 1 weakspot in a group or something

[spice veldt]

yeah hitting 1 weakspot in a group

the only condition is that you hit a weakspot

hitting a bodyshot in a cleave doesn't matter

[upper sun]

and it applies for other targets right?

[spice veldt]

so long as you hit a weakspot

i forget if you can stack uncanny multiple times in a single swing

[spice veldt]

oh neat the answer is yes

[upper sun]

yeah im testing on an illisi and the stacks stay

though i dont think rending is that good for clearing hoards

[spice veldt]

yeah it doesn't affect unarmoured/infested

[rigid sky]

Purgatus wants at least 76 burn and I think 79 cloud radius, warp nexus and warp flurry, and Flak. Last perk can be crit chance, unyielding, or a couple of other things that I forgot about iirc. Damage and warp resist are dump, quell speed is a lesser consideration.

[rigid sky]

Not the only bad take there though lol

[cosmic sigil]

I think the best part of trauma is making the elites stumble and fall lamentably

[little rapids]

the best part of trauma is trying to do that then it glitches out and the crusher continues attacking anyways

[rigid sky]

I love having good anti-rager weaponry in general

They are such nasty bastards

They need to sit down in time out

Voidstrike is super satisfying for utterly denying them too

[cosmic sigil]

Watching them running towards the trap 😁

[rigid sky]

Are the Crushers glitching out or are they just in their immune window?

[little rapids]

idk im a noob

[rigid sky]

I'm liking Trauma a little less since they implemented that window tbh

[little rapids]

chefs kiss voidstrike

[rigid sky]

After being staggered once you can't do it again for 2.5s I think?

[little rapids]

voidstrike > trauma fite me

[little rapids]

oh that would make sense

i have been relying on it to always stagger LOL

[ornate lynx]

smite go brrrr

[rigid sky]

Voidstrike I feel is a bit better right now

Just because of the Crushers thing

Maybe now is the time for Rending Trauma to be the better one actually since it softens Crushers up for everyone else now that they aren't as trivialisable

But I'm a blazey boi

But voidstrike kills everything so that's my jam atm

[cosmic sigil]

I should try rending trauma hmm

[rigid sky]

My old Trauma was that but Blaze is way more satisfying

[cosmic sigil]

What do you want on void staff?

[rigid sky]

Rending is team support since you already nuke carapace

[upper sun]

assuming your team does anything is always a mistake unless you're playing with friends

[rigid sky]

Nexus and Surge, or Flurry and Transfer

First is more fun imo

[little rapids]

i live by surge flurry

[cosmic sigil]

Not nexus flurry?

[rigid sky]

I prefer the big nukey staff

[little rapids]

thats fine too but ur missing out on surge which is awesome and badass

😎

[plucky flax]

HD2 matchmaking is borked so I might play a round of darktide.

[little rapids]

are you the resident surge psyker i have a question

[plucky flax]

Yes.

Surge and blaze trauma main.

Ask away my young padawan.

[little rapids]

should i do flak maniac or flak unyielding

[plucky flax]

Up to you flak is must.

I personally go maniac to 1 shot trapper. and 2 shot dreg rager without needing to crit.

Not like you would struggle with surge against trapper though.

[little rapids]

it doesnt 1 shot trapper without?

[plucky flax]

Without crit I think it's very close.

With maniac you don't need crit to 1 shot trapper.

[little rapids]

well my staff is locked to flak unyielding anyways but if i get another one i will try maniac

[plucky flax]

Unyielding would let you do some decent damage against monster.

[little rapids]

monstrosity are unyielding!?

i didnt even know that

lol

ill probably definitely keep it then

[plucky flax]

Yeah they are all unyielding. Also reaper and bulwark.

[dim parrot]

and how was it sibling?

[warm spindle]

I have a solid amount of hours and I still did not know that, huh

weakspot + unyeilding would be very nice for a boss killing build, noted

[dim parrot]

oof unyielding my beloved

[upper sun]

the website that has the builds has a good breakdown on the enemy types in case you're not sure about something

[rigid sky]

Weakspot is weaker than you think and never worth it

It's misleadingly bad

[little rapids]

holy shit perfect timing procs even if udont hit an enemy??

wtf

[spice veldt]

yeah it unusually procs off of a different condition than Mettle for some reason

i guess they figured that you'd stack it too quickly otherwise

[fickle swallow]

Yeah. It's mentioned in the Psyker Atheneum (the steam guide pinned in this channel). Always refer to that guide first for things you aren't sure of or you might want to know. It's insanely helpful. I hope there would be such a guide for other classes.

[little rapids]

ogrynomicon?

[plucky flax]

It's pretty good!

Third person so it's different.

[dim parrot]

just got gunned to death

the stagger is wild

[fickle swallow]

Psykers got gunned to death all the time. Just run and slide away from them and find cover

[dim parrot]

sometimes thats just not possible sibling, because spawn director decides so

[fluid skiff]

is there a rank 4 version of Rending Shockwave?

[fickle swallow]

Yes. You can check blessings at darktide.gameslantern.com

[upper sun]

theres a good one on youtube for the vet and zealot skill trees and the zealot channel has a google chart for zealot weapons for vet weapons idk

the guy who made the ones on youtube is shall we say a little bit elitist? but he really knows his stuff

[wet belfry]

Hopefully veteran gets one someday.

[rotund fable]

Well this is a nice mission reward... shame i dont know how to build a laspistol

I took it as-is into meatgrinder and it feels like a bb pistol... but it's punch animation is literally just a force-push so it's kinda funny...

[rigid sky]

DD/SG machine innit

[tired estuary]

yeah it needs dumdum and good perks

[rigid sky]

It is all about weakspots, crits, and weakspot crits

[tired estuary]

also unlike lasrifles it doesn't get dicked over by suppression

[rigid sky]

Check those lovely multipliers it has

But like you could just take a CIAG and not need to replace your mouse within a month

[tired estuary]

gotta prep for cumnuts iag nerfs in 3 months

[rigid sky]

(Or get an auto fire mod)

[rotund fable]

I know that DD is "Dumdum" but what's SG stand for again?

[rigid sky]

DD is Disrupt Destiny

SG Scrier's Gaze

Gunker generally gets really crazy with those two talents especially if you use a gun with great weakspot and crit synergy

[tired estuary]

yeah multiplicative shit on gun with funny multipliers already

[rigid sky]

Hence CIAG being even more king on Psyker than on anyone else

It gets really stupid which makes up for your defenses being utterly nonexistent

[rotund fable]

I'm not the biggest fan of disrupt destiny... too many times i was about to kill a random marked poxwalker, only for our veteran to do a 180 and snipe it with their plasma-gun instead of worrying about the 6+ gunners spamming the door so much our ogryn gets pushed away from it

[tired estuary]

idk you just get used to dd (or at least I do)

like even worst case you lose your stonks its not hard to get them back

[rigid sky]

Take the 30s duration on it

[tired estuary]

and in end event situations like oops all poxwalkers where it runs out anyways it doesn't matter at that point

also that

[rigid sky]

And let your bees do most of the work

If it falls off it's ok

[tired estuary]

easy come easy go

[rigid sky]

You can stack it up again in 5 kills theoreticallg

But I think it's too good to easily dismiss for Voidstrike and guns

Especially since you want True Aim on both of them already

[willow hazel]

it's also doable to force pick targets. If you angle the camera so only 3 melee enemies are in field of view, that's a free 9 stacks

[rigid sky]

It's the hardest keystone to use (and it synergises with the hardest riskiest ability to use, SG)

But by god is it worth it

Left click assails casually one-shotting bruisers, specials

[willow hazel]

At this point I am convinced it's the best keystone. The map hack portion of it is underrated too

[tired estuary]

idk that its hard to use with assail

[rigid sky]

Before you even get the gun out

Assail makes it way easier

But you do still get situations where THE BEES don't work with you

You gotta react to the duration getting low sometimes

And just pull the gun put and ice that random poxy boi

The real downside of it imo is when it decides to not display on your buff bar

Not sure if it is working or not when it does that

SG does it too but seems to still work

[willow hazel]

I think it still works, it's just the icon thats bugged

but not knowing if you are at 1 stack of 15 stacks is rough sometimes

[lyric burrow]

void is pretty busted atm

purg is also good but void is def stronger

purg has very good horde clear though if you really need that

(so does void but purg is still better at it)

[rigid sky]

Genuinely, which do you find more fun

And also

Why not both lol

Purgatus is cheap to make

Iirc only 4 blessings

Or something like that

Voidstrike is a little harder but has a bit of flexibility

I prefer Surge/Nexus but other styles are fun too

Deimos has flexibility imo

You need Uncanny but the second can be many things

I like Deflector shrug

Precognition is good too

And Riposte

[lyric burrow]

you want uncanny on deimos

if a weapon has uncanny you want it

[rigid sky]

Slaughterer is not a Deimos thing tbh

[lyric burrow]

uncanny + slaught/executor/deflector/precog are all fine

[rigid sky]

It can kinda work

But it's not really helping its main goal like it does on Illisi

Illisi basically needs it

[lyric burrow]

eh it still does fine into hordes tbh

its not bis

but its not a dead blessing

[rigid sky]

If you're hordefighting with a Deimos something is going wrong but yeah, sometimes stuff happens

Things do go wrong

[upper sun]

yeah usually its a good idea to have one good hoard tool and one good clear tool like purge/deimos or surge/illisi

[little rapids]

wdym? always go illisi purg smite

[upper sun]

may the emperor blind snipers from our sibling 😢

[little rapids]

xd

[upper sun]

but tbh at this point i'm gonna run illisi for everything since i have nothing else

i bricked around 12-16 demios with nothing usable

[rigid sky]

You'll get one eventually

Or a Duelling Sword IV

Almost interchangeable really

[upper sun]

I think i have ptsd I would rather go duelling 4 i only rolled 2 of them

[feral verge]

definitely not

uncanny, every time

pretty much any weapon that has uncanny strike available, should take it

[upper sun]

slaughterer isnt great on deimos becasue its not meant as a clear weapon

[spice veldt]

it doesn't stack multiplicatively with them

[feral verge]

i can send my main build, which is a purga build

[spice veldt]

it stacks additively disrupt destiny's bonus

[upper sun]

it goes hard on illisi tho id love to get an illisi with slaughterer 4 and deflector 4 sadly i have neither

[spice veldt]

and +10% is a very low bonus

[lunar hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-duck-hq-gif-14135789286957337379

[rigid sky]

Slaughterer/bloodthirsty is fun

[spice veldt]

if you do 100 base damage and 150 damage on a weakspot hit, +10% weakspot dmg means that you do 150 + 5 = 155 damage on a weakspot now, not 150 + 15 = 165 damage

[feral verge]

i have used my build for many, many hours in auric. it's as optimized as it can be at this point

[rigid sky]

Moar mettle value

[lunar hollow]

https://streamable.com/vmdu9a

(same guy btw)

[rigid sky]

I can see slaughterer/uncanny being better though

[upper sun]

swords have a lot of usable blessings unlike staves

[feral verge]

@ornate hamlet

[rigid sky]

But I rate Slaughterer as the #1 on Illisi

[rigid sky]

Trauma and Void both have options

[feral verge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8_pbmdyh48

[spice veldt]

josho pls share resources instead of stealing grenades?

[spice veldt]

of course you respond with an oblivion video

[lyric burrow]

josho with the most devious of licks

[wet belfry]

My respect for you just increasesd by 20%

[upper sun]

😢 i got a few terrifying barrages and surges on truama that beg to disagree

[wet belfry]

Yours decreased by 15%

[feral verge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YECdOTzZOZc

[spice veldt]

wha

[wet belfry]

Disrespecting oblivion video

You can pray for forgiveness at dagons shrine

[feral verge]

arco has some jeelius energy

he'd get crushed by the statue

[upper sun]

oblivion is ||mid||

[feral verge]

skybaby?

or morrochad

[upper sun]

both

[rigid sky]

New Vegryn

[upper sun]

also true

[feral verge]

new vegas is the better game and rpg

but fo3 is still my favorite fallout game

[rigid sky]

3 had the atmosphere

And the vaults

3 was a sequel to 1, NV was a sequel to 2 imo

[upper sun]

i can see that NV had great consequences for quests and rpg mechanics that are seen in very few games

[plucky flax]

FNV THE BEST EVER

[wet belfry]

The aesthetics of fallout new vegas is actually some of the most interesting ive seen in a game.

Because it actually looks like people live in the areas they are in

They have bathrooms, kitchens xtra

[feral verge]

to this day, oblivion has the best forests in gaming

maybe only kingdom come deliverance cant match or beat it

[wet belfry]

It doesnt either have the nonsense of future fallout games having no insulation

It makes it easier to believe the actual world that FNV plays out in could exist.

[rigid sky]

Politically it feels kinda real too

3 was just funky quickly written RPG stuff

NV felt like a real conflict with 2 justifiable sides to it (plus one actual monstrous threat in the Legion)

[feral verge]

imagine if they actually had the team they needed to realize their vision

[rigid sky]

Legion could have done with some more content for me to ignore because I could never play a roman-inspired ultra-fascist empire

Anyway, back to The Imperium

[plucky flax]

Well they're both under microsoft now. Big daddy microsoft should just tell them to reconciliate and let obsidian do a fnv remake.

[rigid sky]

Just make Black Mountain Radio not go away after you complete its quest

All I want

How else would I be reminded to beware the battle cattle, but not fear the battle cattle?

How else would I have my mind opened by all of the Good Questions provided by Rhonda

[feral verge]

alot of the devs behind fnv have scattered to the four winds

they've left and gone to different studios

[rigid sky]

Time to get the Special Collars

[upper sun]

the onnly issue is that the ceo of obsidian made all the good devs quit

[plucky flax]

Tru

And that game outer worlds was so bad.

They marketed as space fnv.

But it was just shit.

[willow hazel]

Uncanny 4 is BiS, but it's not that much better than Uncanny 3

Pick it up if you have excess meckbulks

or if you are missing uncanny 3

[rigid sky]

Get that shit then

Try it even

IV is better but some people like the V more

Idk about the V

The big test on the IV is always "do I reliably oneshot mutants"

But i think IV has stronger heavies

[upper sun]

whats the difference between groaner and infested

is it like just hoards?

[rigid sky]

Groaners are unarmoured

The hordes are groaners + poxwalkers

Groaners have less HP and are unarmoured, poxwalkers have more HP and are infested (and apply corruption on hit)

[upper sun]

so the ones you find by themseleves are infested and groaners are from hoards

[rigid sky]

Other infested include poxhounds

[upper sun]

ye that i know

[rigid sky]

Groaners are the more human looking guys

Poxwalkers are the wormy bois

[plucky flax]

They should scrap infested and group them into unyielding.

Stupid bloating.

[rigid sky]

They can exist both as ambient weirdos and as hordes

[plucky flax]

No one ever run infested willingly.

[rigid sky]

Introduce another infested type imo

[upper sun]

but the perk just doesnt make sense if groaners is more specific why is the perk only 10% when infested maxes at 25%

[rigid sky]

Not quite true

[upper sun]

this is kinda confusing imo

[rigid sky]

Can't remember which weapon but one gets a worthy breakpoint from it

[rigid sky]

It's groaners AND poxwalkers

There is no perk only for groaners

[plucky flax]

Why run breakpoint on chaff horde clear

[rigid sky]

Bromentum

I can't remember what the weapon is that wants it

[plucky flax]

I can tell you combat axe doesn't need infested to 1 shot poxwalker.

So your bm combat axe is safe.

[rigid sky]

I think the ogrynomicon has one which does

Maybe the shovel V

[upper sun]

ye the shield

[rigid sky]

Ooh the shield

OK thanks

Not the shovel then lol, definitely doesn't need help with it

[plucky flax]

Wut I'm pretty sure I can 1 shot poxwalker on headshot without infested on my shield.

[rigid sky]

Take it up with the boneads

[plucky flax]

It's my least played class anyway Idc for that class.

[upper sun]

yeah but its not easy to hit 4 things on the head with shield

[plucky flax]

I just slap flak unyielding on clubba and heavy spam.

Actually shield hitbox is weird. You head shot so easily.

[upper sun]

shield has bad clear tho thats why they run it

[rigid sky]

Clobb IIIb is a god

5 heavies

Then all lights

[plucky flax]

Shield with bleed is god tier horde clear. D:

[rigid sky]

Rapid fire bonking

[plucky flax]

Since heavy 2 has big ass cleave.

And it bleeds everything.

[rigid sky]

Stick a black and decker drill bit on the end and I can go through walls baby

[harsh urchin]

OG ogryn shovel

Has a breakpoint for bm

On infested

[plucky flax]

Huh I don't run bm on shovel.

Skullcrushers thunderous too gud on first shovel.

While haymaker thunderous is stronk on mk3.

[harsh urchin]

Shovel doesn't have haymaker

[rigid sky]

You gotta have Bromentum on a shovel imo, especially the folding ones

What's better than oneshotting a Crusher?

Oneshotting 4 at once

[plucky flax]

Oh yeah mk3 club. Dunno what happened to me.

But yeah I like the og shovel best on ogryn with skullcrusher thunderouns. I don't like the other 2 shovels they feel so slow.

Even though I think mk5 can 1 shot crusher.

[rigid sky]

5 is painfully slow

I was so excited to try it

But you never get HH stacks

Because by the time you swing Plasmadick already shot all the poxwalkers you were swinging at

[stone canyon]

So close, yet so far, needs 76% burn

[little rapids]

are there like breakpoints

is 75-->76 more significant than 74-->75

[stone canyon]

"Above 76% Burn you cannot increase the amount of stacks you can keep up with the staff, therefore, anything above 76% Burn gives very marginal gains for your damage output."

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2917274959

[little rapids]

all that means is that 77+ is wasted points

but it does not say that 75 is much less than 76

he does write this tho

[stone canyon]

Id assume 76 is when you hit max stacks

[little rapids]

so theres probably some fuckery in the numbers behind it

[willow hazel]

75 caps at 14 stacks

[stone canyon]

So maybe 76% is 15 stacks

[little rapids]

makes sense

[stone canyon]

I have played with Purgatus lasttime when i was leveling still

Maybe should give it a go as "full grown psyker" once i get the blessings

[little rapids]

huh

[leaden mulch]

right now we only have 1 new staff skin right (new model)

[little rapids]

pretty sure ive seen 2

[upper sun]

this is as close as i got

this is my 6th attempt i think

[silent socket]

Better then mine

[upper sun]

now i mostly just roll anything good i get off the mainstore i wasted too much on brunts gambling seems to work fine

[magic kayak]

what blessi

trying to decide what perk to swap for stamina

carapace, maniac, unyielding?

[shy pewter]

very good tbh, the only thing thats off is the groaner perk instead of crit chance. But 77 burn and 80 cloud radius and boths T4 blessings are 🤌 ✨

[shy pewter]

I dont know psyker revolver very well. That said I'd probably run Crucian Roulette instead of PB and run carapace instead of stam

[cosmic sigil]

Or flak and elite

[magic kayak]

Don't have crucian yet but will be swapping point blank as soon as I get it

yeah I think I'll do carapace for ragers and crusher

[cosmic sigil]

You'll have to try it in the psykhanium, see if you get an interesting bp

[magic kayak]

im pairing it up with this

I get more melee kills than zealots on some games hah

[shy pewter]

ragers arent carapace. Maybe you meant maulers' carpace helms?

[cosmic sigil]

Ragers do not have carapace.

[magic kayak]

yeah sorry I meant maulers

they have the helmets and I forget what their body armor is

[radiant frigate]

not too fond of axes

[magic kayak]

Mostly though I can stagger ragers and maulers with hits to the head

[magic kayak]

have you tried a brutal momentum axe? its amazing

[shy pewter]

Try swapping maniac damage on this for unarmored, and shred to headtaker. With that setup you should be able to 1-shot both types of bruisers for absolutely insane horde clear

[radiant frigate]

also not too fond of blessings making or breaking a weapon

[magic kayak]

I run DD and SG so the crit is really solid

[magic kayak]

That's kind of how this game works lol

[radiant frigate]

i wish it didn't

[magic kayak]

That's like saying you're not fond of having to equip weapons at all haha

[radiant frigate]

no

it's more like saying "weapons should behave as they do, and blessings should only be little extras, rather than the entire thing"

[magic kayak]

I could agree I'm not fond of the rng of how to get blessing etc, but the fact we have variables that change up game play is excellent

[radiant frigate]

especially with a crafting system like this

[shy pewter]

Does your weapon (as-is) 1-shot scarb bruisers on crit? If not I'd still suggest unarmored over maniac

[magic kayak]

Let me test that

I used the same thing as telopots on his gunker

[shy pewter]

I'm the opposite, I think all the "just a little bit extra" blessings should be eliminated and the primary function of blessings should be to alter the fundamental way the weapon works. Way more interesting

[magic kayak]

Exactly, the perks themselves are kind of annoying

[radiant frigate]

less interesting when there is exactly one combination that vastly outperforms the rest

example: power cycler brutal momentum power swords

[magic kayak]

I get you can flavor your weapons to all work as a system to be able to handle multiple roles

In an ecosystem, there will always be an apex

[shy pewter]

Yes, but thats also bad design/balancing

[radiant frigate]

and that is precisely what i am saying

[magic kayak]

I think Boko is saying the blessings themselves and the system they are a part of aren't bad, just the way it's currently balanced isnt where everyone might want it

[shy pewter]

I mean in that case, just dont customize weapons at all. No perks, stats, or blessings. The weapon does what it does, and all changes should come from talents

[radiant frigate]

Yes

[lyric burrow]

Blessings that alter how a weapon works are neat because it means you can run whatever you want however it tends to also be stuff like BM/uncanny which is way too strong and just invalidates weapon weaknesses and kinda breaks weapon identity

[shy pewter]

But thats not what this game is, nor ever will be, so no point bringing it up

[magic kayak]

I can tell you that when I use my axe with BM, I use melee for hoard clear, but it isn't a DSIV where I can one or two tap a crusher or charging monster. I lose single target damage

[radiant frigate]

not like you really get to customize your weapons anyhow

[magic kayak]

I have played this game far more after switching to gunker, it creates a unique play style and is a lot of fun, so getting rid of stuff like that just reduces player base for me personally

[radiant frigate]

you just pray that half of it comes with what you want

and then "fix" the other half

[magic kayak]

sad but true!

And it's really more like 3/5ths since modifiers and at least 2 other rngs have to hit right

[radiant frigate]

even worse!

[magic kayak]

yep!

[radiant frigate]

petition to make diamantine worth something, and "unlock" weapons so you can customize every part of them

at least then it would have a purpose

[magic kayak]

See that would be awesome, or even better, grant experience to weapon types so that you sort of specialize in them

[shy pewter]

Now THAT I agree with, I've been begging for that for a year

But then FS would compromise the whole point of their crafting system which is to waste as much of your time as possible

[fallen yacht]

Ia brutal momentum strictly better than rampage on power swords? Ive been running cycler + rampage when i play vet

[little rapids]

fuck it let us pay exorbant amounts to increase base stats too

[lyric burrow]

Yes

BM is absurd

[shy pewter]

BM is vastly better

[fallen yacht]

But also i havent played vet in awhile cuz i find it a bit boring compared to zealot and psyker

[magic kayak]

BM is amazing feeling frankly

[fallen yacht]

Its just "gun"

[magic kayak]

I started with psyker and zealot and can't even bring myself to lvl to 30 on vet and ogryn. It just isn't as fun

[shy pewter]

Power Sword meta is Power Cycler with either BM or Sunder. Most people tend towards BM. But both those combos are insanely better than any other blessings

[magic kayak]

Well, you can do grenade secret build lol

[fallen yacht]

Thats what i run when my friends are on

[magic kayak]

the hidden capstone

[shy pewter]

I play all 4 but Ogryn is definitely my fav, I love protecting the lil uns and hard carrying every match lmao

[magic kayak]

Haha yeah I'm starting to come around, but when you're basically high level psyker then have to go to like a lvl 14 ogryn it just isn't the same

[little rapids]

literally me

[magic kayak]

I'm not saying I'm super good at this game, just that I can carry a damnation usually if need be

[little rapids]

so hard to drop the force staff and pick up a shit lasgun lol

[magic kayak]

exactly

oh look at all my greys...

[fallen yacht]

The only fun vet build to me

[magic kayak]

thats actually the only build I'll use now on vet

plasma gun and grenades

[fallen yacht]

Does it buff grenades? Take the node

[magic kayak]

I don't have time to eff around

https://tenor.com/view/laser-guns-firing-blasters-shooting-plasma-guns-gif-13222473

[fallen yacht]

Horde coming at you? Genade
Single trapper? Grenade
Zealot hoarding all the karking ammo? Believe it or not, grenade

[magic kayak]

exploding barrel blocking the entire path in the courtyard? grenade

https://tenor.com/view/run-explosions-gif-13620594

[shy pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/jail-believe-it-or-not-believe-it-or-not-jail-parks-and-rec-gif-3275634010746838096

[magic kayak]

actual game footage from a lvl 7 vet

[fallen yacht]

Also havent gotten a good plasma gun yet, but dont feel like playing vet anyway

[magic kayak]

yeah to get a good one requires you to play with a bad one. that's the problem. You can't even share equipment between characters

[shy pewter]

the secret is that literally any plasma gun is a good one, its that op

[magic kayak]

so this sick axe I have on my psyker? zealot cant use it

[fallen yacht]

Just been rocking mk 1 Helbore since I do like it. Would like to use a bolt gun but dont have a good one on vet yet

[near drift]

https://youtu.be/LiszLX0GdMM?si=CyAY-0V6JKteVj9P

[fallen yacht]

Even tho its basically just a worse revolver, bolt gun is cooler

[magic kayak]

They need to just go ahead and create some cool game modes. They have such a cool battle system, stop being dumb and make some off the wall fun ways to play.

Like infinite grenades horde clear, infinite warp, etc. And just turn up the mob density to gpu liquify mode

[lyric burrow]

Bolter is still p good but yeah revo is just kinda overtuned

[magic kayak]

revo is severely limited by being single target only though

[elder parrot]

Makes sense that you favor the plasma gat. Since you love grenades and a plasma weaponry is basically just a grenade in disguise if you go by tabletop rules.

still 100% worth it though.

[magic kayak]

exactly. more explodey

[lyric burrow]

I wouldnt really call it limited at single target given thats its job and it also has crazy pen

[magic kayak]

throw grenade, shoot grenade, be grenade. Vet, Ogryn, Psyker in that order

[spice veldt]

not much of a limitation if you can just shut down the necessary enemies and melee everything else

[magic kayak]

But I guess my point is it's not really overtuned in that aspect

[lyric burrow]

It is tho

Very much so

What doesnt it kill

[magic kayak]

If you look at skill tree, melee, and ranged, you have those 3 options on how to deal with threats. You can choose single target on melee, skill tree, or ranged weapon

What is it not supposed to kill? It still has like 5 shots in it

[elder parrot]

Anything that doesnt stop comming at you once you kill 5 of them.

[magic kayak]

Yeah a group of 5 crushers? ok plus 7 dogs and a horde on each side

[elder parrot]

just 7 dogs tbh

i mean sure if you nail each and every one

[magic kayak]

lol im just saying the revolver isn't going to be used against a pack of dogs

[lyric burrow]

If only i had a blitz and a melee

[elder parrot]

But if you do you're a good shot tbnh

[magic kayak]

exactly...

[spice veldt]

naturally, but you can also just melee the doggies or bring another ranged weapon for dog waves

[elder parrot]

which is a great comfort while being mauled by the last 2 dogs

[magic kayak]

You use your entire build to cover the different content in the game

[fallen yacht]

Its weird that vet feels very shoehorned into having very limited builds, and basically one or two good melee weapons in comparison. While Zealot i havent even built every good weapon i want. Still looking for a good Crusher and Knife build, possibly really min/max my hammer and boltgun

[lyric burrow]

So a weapon is only op if i literally never have to put it away?

Yeah it has like one kind of weakness

But destroys everything else

[fallen yacht]

And psyker to me feels like a ton of build variety as well (at least so far)

[magic kayak]

On my gunker I will easily run out of ammo if I'm just using revolver too much

[lyric burrow]

On a quickdraw weapon

[elder parrot]

I'd say there's no such thing as overpowered in a PVE game. Moreso it's called bad game design.

[shy pewter]

Revovler is literally one of the most powerful and overtuned weapons in the game (the zarona, not the new one. the new one is well balanced). It has a low magazine size and is single target and still outperforms almost everything else in the game

[elder parrot]

False choice.

[lyric burrow]

There is absolutely op in pve

[magic kayak]

outperforms in what way?

[elder parrot]

Is the revolver the superior choice in every concievable scenario?

[lyric burrow]

It comes from bad balance

[elder parrot]

I can think of many builds that i would pick another ranged weapon over the revolver in.

[magic kayak]

Plasma gun can wipe out a pack of baddies with a single shot

[spice veldt]

fast draw, little recoil hindering your aim, being able to hit one-shot BPs on quite a few enemies, and having bullet magnetism

[lyric burrow]

Plasma is also extremely stupid

[fallen yacht]

Warframe is an example of this. Used to play it so much leading up to The New War, but stopped playing after it came out. Everything feels incredibly power creeped

[magic kayak]

and on psyker you lose the ability of any staff

[spice veldt]

another weapon being overtuned does not exclude another weapon from also being overtuned

[torpid girder]

Wait the revo has bullet magnetism? 🥹
I thought i just had good aim

[spice veldt]

😔

[shy pewter]

it can 1-shot pretty much every enemy in the game and cleaves through everything, so you can instantly delete any threat at any distance. It has basically no drawbacks as long as you bring another way to clear swarms

[elder parrot]

ok this is a valid point. the aim assist is bullshit

[torpid girder]

I had training wheels on the whole time noooo

[magic kayak]

He said it outperforms every other weapon, and I disagree

[fallen yacht]

Might come back when the Inaros rework hits live. I should come back to get grendel prime anyway

[spice veldt]

yeah i really do not like the fact that it has bullet magnetism

[elder parrot]

a high damage precise weapon should be limited exactly by operator proficiency

[magic kayak]

its not a competitive game though

[spice veldt]

oh yeah i didn't see that

[lyric burrow]

It also probably shouldnt have rending

[elder parrot]

It's a bad design with the rending tbh.

[magic kayak]

frankly I think other weapons need to be brought up a bit, but you can't have something be excellent if everything is excellent

[fallen yacht]

The revolver has a default 20% rending and then has hand cannon iirc

[torpid girder]

Honestly even with the rending I rarely find myself using revo against carapace anyways

[lyric burrow]

You can bring down all the crazy shit and bring up the like 2 bad weapons

[feral verge]

Nerd

[spice veldt]

death

[magic kayak]

It's ok to have things in a game meant for power fantasy, be powerful

[elder parrot]

the entire gimmick is already armor penetration. Either it's superfluous or it's too much. Why not just incorporate it into the statblock?

[spice veldt]

this game also has multiple difficulties

[magic kayak]

Correct it does

[spice veldt]

if people want a power fantasy, they can always step down

[lyric burrow]

Yeah theres also meant to be challenge

[fallen yacht]

I love headhunter autoguns, but rarely ever see them lately

[lyric burrow]

At the top end esp

[magic kayak]

You totally know that isn't correct

[feral verge]

Source?

[elder parrot]

Well, the revolver is great at the things it should be great at. It's just too great at stuff it shouldnt be great at tbh.

[spice veldt]

i absolutely know that is correct

[magic kayak]

Let's be genuine with our statements. Knowingly playing easy mode isn't going to be a power fantasy for anyone. It's knowing you're on a very difficult game mode and being able to stand your ground

[torpid girder]

tbf tbf there is a huge difference between bullying children at a playground and trying your hardest in a warzone and killing everything and getting a rush of dopamine that way

[magic kayak]

So you honestly think it's a power fantasy to beat a game on easy mode? Honestly now...

[elder parrot]

Something can feel powerful and balanced. It's all about identifying the niche application of a weapon. Doom eternal is a good example.

[spice veldt]

sure it is

people get to enjoy their power fantasy by playing ultrakill on non-violent diffs

[elder parrot]

No single weapon were ever the best in every situation.

[lyric burrow]

People want to walk through the game without trying

[torpid girder]

I'm never going to be able to escape this game

[magic kayak]

Exactly. Nobody's power fantasy in a game is beating easy mode. That's why every single youtube video is a guide on beating auric damnation or the twins.

Go show me the big video viewership count of someone making builds for lowest difficulty.

[torpid girder]

Well arco is right in the sense where it IS a type of power fantasy
it's just there are multiple types of power fantasies

[radiant frigate]

sunder?

[feral verge]

Keening

[spice veldt]

i mean that's just the nature of being a youtuber for a game that potentially attracts a remotely hardcore playerbase

[magic kayak]

It's a really weak argument honestly

[torpid girder]

Inherently abusing power on ppl u view as "lesser" than u is a power fantasy

[magic kayak]

My point is this isn't a competitive game where we need to be screaming about balance lol

[spice veldt]

and keep in mind that the majority of people play malice

[torpid girder]

this is a power fantasy

[fallen yacht]

I want a Skitarii class

Just to see if theyre as bad in game as on the tabletop

[magic kayak]

Even in a game like counterstrike, the AWP by far outperforms other sniper rifles in single target elimination

[lyric burrow]

You can have a power fantasy and not be op imo depending on how much of a power fantasy you want

[elder parrot]

So just to clarify, a pve game is pretty much a game of mastery or rote memory correct? Except darktide isn't. There's still the unpredictable element and adaptation as a pvp game. Only it comes from your team mates, not your opposition.

[shy pewter]

Sunder stops your swings from getting caught on hard armor and bulwark shields when you're trying to clear mixed hordes

[elder parrot]

The trick is to have no solitary or poor teamplayer be able to succeed.

[magic kayak]

Creating different classes creates imbalance

[spice veldt]

i disagree, because i want weapons to be useful and that I don't want to feel that I'm gimping myself by using it

[magic kayak]

So you feel that not using the most powerful weapon is gimping yourself?

[spice veldt]

sure, but ideally it's moreso asymmetrically balanced, rather than just being plain out imbalanced

[torpid girder]

This is also a really great point

[spice veldt]

yup

[magic kayak]

Do you have a job in real life? Is it the highest paid job ever? Why have a job if there's a better one out there?

[lyric burrow]

Its also not as fun for other people if you can just wipe out the map

[magic kayak]

So revolver probably isn't wiping out the whole map lol

[spice veldt]

what is this analogy
i can't quite get certain jobs without qualifications

[rugged glacier]

That's such a

[rugged glacier]

lmao

[torpid girder]

Cuz sure some weapons are made viable through the skill of the user
But on the other hand if the user is good enough to make a bad weapon viable, they'd also most likely get wayyy better results using the actually good weapon
So you'd probably be inherently handicapping yourself either way I think

[magic kayak]

Well you can't get certain blessings without the right rng lol

[spice veldt]

getting a particular weapon in this game has the same qualification as any other weapon (buying from the armoury)

[lyric burrow]

Revo is wiping out any important targets lol

[spice veldt]

except there's no skill requirement for getting certain weapons or investing years into building a resume

and there's no strict ordering to weapon acquisition besidees the level limitations

[magic kayak]

Except when other enemies are in the way, like teammate ogryns haha

[torpid girder]

Revo pierces teammates i think

[spice veldt]

it can cleave through teammates

it has something on the order of 6-7.5 cleave

[magic kayak]

Tell that to the multiple teammates who jump in front haha

[elder parrot]

yeah. that's about 50% of the reason people grab it. It shoots through the guys blocking your LoS

[spice veldt]

the probability of multiple teammates being in front of the target that you want to shoot is unlikely

[magic kayak]

The infamous ogryn zealot wall of china

[spice veldt]

unless you're playing backline revolver for some reason

[torpid girder]

I like the explanation of how our characters take basically no damage until a certain bar is broken is literally just that they're that tough

[magic kayak]

I play mid but it's pretty often teammates jump in front

[spice veldt]

and also 6-7.5 cleave is enough cleave through 2 teammates

[elder parrot]

Honestly, not really. When you use a revolver you take a second to aim. So you stand still. which means you now are behind your homies that dont do that.

[shy pewter]

revolver definitely pierces through ogryn allies and still kills what you're aiming at

[torpid girder]

I use revolver on my melee charge crusher zealot and I would literally not replace it for the world
How quickly you can just take it out and instakill an important enemy or 8 is just too good

[magic kayak]

and when your target is surrounded by a horde it really doesn't do much

[lyric burrow]

It has pen

[spice veldt]

you can also just slide and aim a shot

[magic kayak]

That's exactly how a revolver should ork

[spice veldt]

or you're meleeing stuff and diving in

[magic kayak]

it's a quickdraw weapon. Who on earth would use it if you quick drew it to take out 5 unarmored enemies or barely stopped a priority target?

[shy pewter]

revolver also pierces through hordes to let you kill your target. like you can shoot through like 6 poxwalkers and still kill the sniper youre shooting at

[torpid girder]

Also love the revolver reload animations, I just wish the quicker reload animations that play when you interrupt a slow reload would remove the part where u drop out the previous casings

[lyric burrow]

Yeah its p rare i cant shoot my target

[spice veldt]

sure, i don't really think that balancing the damage is the way to go because of BPs and whatnot

[lyric burrow]

With revo

[spice veldt]

but we can tune down other aspects

like removing the bullet magnetism

[elder parrot]

yeah aim assist needs to go.

[torpid girder]

nooo don't touch my training wheels please i need them

[magic kayak]

Or just removing it at higher difficulties

[lyric burrow]

Hand cannon could prob go

[magic kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/alien-bike-ayy-lmao-gif-13734949

[lyric burrow]

Rending in general is kinda dumb

[magic kayak]

bro don't touch my uncanny

[spice veldt]

eh, i think the behavior should remain consistent between difficulties

[magic kayak]

Halo was a massively popular game. It had bullet magnetism

[near drift]

wouldn't be surprised if they made hand cannon just do something entirely different as a nerf since it's revolver exclusive

[spice veldt]

though isn't that just cuz it was developed for consoles?

[elder parrot]

How about differentiating the two types a bit more? Aim assist could be a feature of the gunslinger speedloading one

[feral verge]

Arco likes consistency. For instance, he is consistently bad at all difficulties.

[magic kayak]

I'm not a fan of it and I hate when it's not aiming like I choose, but they put it in for a reason and maybe not everyone likes it but I'm sure some people do

[torpid girder]

This is a bit of a touchy subject
Alot of games have their difficulty designed around the central gameplay loop and the fundamentals of the game themselves, rather than limiting the options that a player has
Games that DO actually do this usually do it as a 1-off thing or as an optional challenge the player can choose to like toggle and i don't think darktide would really benefit from doing something like that
but i'm also a little dumb so

[elder parrot]

But that one would lack precision

[magic kayak]

Yeah that was a big reason for sure

[spice veldt]

yeah, but in terms of balance, it really does need to go if you don't want to tweak the damage values and hwatnot

[lyric burrow]

Yeah

[upper sun]

Is there anyway to reduce the brightness on purge staff

it burns my eyes as much as the enemies

[magic kayak]

Honestly, this game is like a big game of rock paper scissors

[lyric burrow]

Aiming is this game is also not asking much of you

[spice veldt]

if people want their headshot power fantasy with the revolver, they should earn it, and it's not as though aiming in this game is particularly hard

given that enemies stand still most times

[feral verge]

Turn off bloom

[upper sun]

I have everything off

[torpid girder]

Honestly knowing the revo has bullet magnetism is going to make me feel even worse when I miss my shots now

[magic kayak]

haha yeah I didn't know it had this until today

[shy pewter]

I haven't looked into it, does revolver actually have aim assist or is the projectile size just really large?

[magic kayak]

but I use the quickdraw version

[lyric burrow]

Its essentially a large projectile

[elder parrot]

Ok, how about this nerf honestly, it makes sense trust me. Why do nobody use the ADS of the torrent version recon las?

Cause you cant see shit

genuinely

[spice veldt]

like i have this clip where i can make very quick shots between spread out targets and with extreme leniency because of bullet magnetism https://streamable.com/irxavf

[elder parrot]

How about the revolvers get a big bright disorienting fuckoff muzzle flash?

[torpid girder]

extended weapon customization

[shy pewter]

because no one uses the recon because its terrible lmao

[elder parrot]

And a good recoil shakeup. You would have to reacquire between shots?

[spice veldt]

the bullet magnetism makes it so much easier to aim by a ridiculous amount

[spice veldt]

tbf that wouldn't be too bad cuz it's a slow-ish semi auto weapon

[magic kayak]

You're asking to balance the game around really high end players though that's why I don't think it's a good idea

[spice veldt]

but it's not really high end players

[torpid girder]

This looks like a DS game

[spice veldt]

it's just making you take more time to aim

[elder parrot]

And yeah, ofc the aim assist is removed.

[magic kayak]

compared to the mass populace, it really is

[lyric burrow]

Asking people to actually aim is really not asking much

[spice veldt]

like, I'm playing while standing and without anywhere to brace my wrist and using primarily wrist movement to aim, and I can make those shots very easily

[magic kayak]

plus its a horde game, I think the purpose is that we need to be able to eliminate enemies quickly

[spice veldt]

also, the enemies in that clip are just standing stil

[lyric burrow]

If you wanna argue we should have crazy op stuff because only top end players can make it broken fair

[spice veldt]

yeah, and people should either earn it or use easier weapons

[lyric burrow]

But aiming should be like

[magic kayak]

you're killing 500+ enemies in a single match times 4 people at minimum

[lyric burrow]

A skill you somewhat need

[elder parrot]

Tbh, that's a big fucking thing. spending 0.2 sec longer aiming would be like lowering the kill rate from 5 gunners per 2.5 sec to 5 per 3.5

[magic kayak]

like if you want to earn it lets say you take damage everytime you're hit and get rid of toughness lol

[spice veldt]

yeah p much

[magic kayak]

exactly

[spice veldt]

that's a more fundamental mechanic change than what we're really proposing though

not quite an equivalent comparison

[elder parrot]

And that's assuming absence of human error. I cant comment on modding the muzzle flash out. I dont play with VFX editing mods.

[magic kayak]

My response was about your reasoning "you have to earn it" so I brought up another case of earning the win

[lyric burrow]

We are simply asking you actually have to aim at the guy you want to shoot

[spice veldt]

sure but that massively changes what this game is

whereas for the revolver, we're making you take more time to aim

[magic kayak]

so would taking off bullet magnetism in some cases

[lyric burrow]

Not really

[magic kayak]

the game changes dramatically when you miss those 5 specialists vs when you kill them

[spice veldt]

i mean, it's still a revolver but with a tighter aiming requirement

yes exactly

[lyric burrow]

It would just add more skill to it

[spice veldt]

balancing by requiring more skill

[magic kayak]

The point for me is that, the game already does a lot for you

[spice veldt]

in that clip, I can almost continuously chain shots on enemies because of how lenient the aim is on it

and enemies are standing still

[magic kayak]

You're controlling a very power and skilled individual in the game

[spice veldt]

but at the same time, the game should present a threat to you

[magic kayak]

there is a balance between how much latent ability the character has and the player has

aiming a gun in real life isn't as easy as pointing a mouse, but obviously thats way too far

[spice veldt]

and if people can do it with the other weapons that don't have bullet magnetism

[magic kayak]

so you create a system whereby the aim is 100% steady, lightning response to mouse inputs, and hit scan.

[spice veldt]

they can do it with revolver

the sole thing is that ammo is the only thing limiting revolver as is

[elder parrot]

Ok, i think perhaps that "earning it" is a bit misleading here. The thing about any game is that when an element of the gameplay becomes less mentally or cognitively demanding it doesnt mean it just gets easier.

[lyric burrow]

Yeah its also specific to revo

[elder parrot]

it means that you have more focus left over to spend on other things

[magic kayak]

because I'm sure in testing they found that with such a small clip size, missing a shot is extremely punishing

[lyric burrow]

I think plasma has it too actually

[torpid girder]

Idk about ammo being the limiting factor to plasma considering survivalist exists

[magic kayak]

because the revolver is designed around, let me pull this out and end this threat quickly. most every other ranged aside from plasma can also thin hordes

[spice veldt]

yeah, and that's really what the revolver should be
high risk, high reward

[elder parrot]

Like in starcraft. Yeah sure, perfect worker micro is possibly enabling a protoss to extract infinite value from a prism+immortal duo, but we dont see top level players tunnel vision on that stuff? Why?

[lyric burrow]

Rn its no risk infinite reward

[magic kayak]

I still think it is, you can still miss shots in the revolver for sure

[elder parrot]

Because there's diminishing returns to that attention.

[spice veldt]

but the chance of missing is significantly lowered

[magic kayak]

have we tested by how much?

[lyric burrow]

I mean you saw how far off he was in the clip

[magic kayak]

I'm going into test right now I'm curious how much magnetism there is

[elder parrot]

Making the revolver require more effort to aim, and take more time to aim precisely means that it's less attention left over for dodging or paying attention to audio cues.

[spice veldt]

it's on the level of killing floor 2's hitboxes in terms of feel

[magic kayak]

I don't think he was as far off as it seems, the visual of the gun itself is separate from the aiming of the weapon

[spice veldt]

i have crosshairs enabled while aiming

[elder parrot]

Even if you manage to "earn" the same ammount of headshots with a harder-to-aim revolver, it's an overall nerf your performance in game all in all.

[magic kayak]

so the invisible reticle in the center of your screen doesn't always match the visual of the gun

but you can see on some of your shots the end of the revolver isn't really lined back up before you fire, ill watch again, but seems they just gave it a big hit box for the projectile maybe

[spice veldt]

well that's basically what bullet magnetism is

[lyric burrow]

Yeah

Its just a forgiving hitbox

Allowing you to not actually be on target and still hit

[elder parrot]

No no... thats called grenades :D

[magic kayak]

While they might acheive same thing I do think it's still different

haha

not worth really going into though I mean, if something has nearly an identical effect then the differences are moot really but changing the trajectory would also change what gets hit behind target also

[lyric burrow]

Technically yeah but this would be further good balancing

[magic kayak]

Do both revolvers have this magnetism?

[elder parrot]

I think the braced one has it more pronounced

[lyric burrow]

I probably shouldnt kill 5 shotgunners for being in the zip code of 1

[spice veldt]

well bullet magnetism is just an abstract term describing shooting near something and still hitting it, regardless of the in-the-black-box implementation of it

[elder parrot]

In practical terms, what happens is that it shifts your reticle to hover over the weakspot

[magic kayak]

which doesn't exist in this game

reticle never moves or slows down when over weakspots like some aim assists

[elder parrot]

players have ingrained visual-stimuli-reflex behaviors that mean we adjust for this.

It's how our brain moves.

So we tend to not notice.