psyker-class

[spice veldt]

sayonara

[lyric burrow]

go to bed

you do not miss old fire

you frequently complained about it

[lunar hollow]

it was perfect

the ideal gameplay

[lyric burrow]

josho on his way to set world record time before first desk slam into discord rant after entering one match with old fire

[lunar hollow]

lmfao

[lyric burrow]

how is it 2 am already

[spice veldt]

the early days were truly an experience of me getting barreled/exploded

[lyric burrow]

oh well

[spice veldt]

dum bith

[lyric burrow]

listen hear you

[lunar hollow]

hear

[spice veldt]

here*

https://streamable.com/g6wx1v

[lyric burrow]

you know what

[lunar hollow]

do not read the chat

[lyric burrow]

its hard to miss

with that wall of text

[lunar hollow]

also the barrel going through the wall to hit arco

but not me

[lyric burrow]

i enjoy arco spamming chat when anything happens

[spice veldt]

i hope my chat spamming does not become positive reinforcement for others to do horrible things to me

i do not wish to be a squeaky toy

[lunar hollow]

it is far too late

[lyric burrow]

i wouldnt go out of my way to make you do it

however when you dodge off a ledge i know what is to come

[spice veldt]

i don't like the implication that it is a regular occurrence

[lyric burrow]

tbf

i have seen you do it 3 times

[flint aspen]

british prisoner karking dies

[lyric burrow]

not counting chastise

[spice veldt]

stop counting it

[lyric burrow]

do it more and ill lose count

[spice veldt]

a good idea at first glance, but I can see through your tricks

[lyric burrow]

you could also stop doing it altogether

and then i no longer have anything to count

balls in your court

[mighty fractal]

Slide dodging off a ledge is one of the most fun things to do in this game

You fly off with increased momentum

As if you had slipped on a banana

[harsh salmon]

Why on my scoreboard when I play gun psyker, my team score is always low? That just because unlike vet I’m not supplying ammo or reneging toughness?

[near wyvern]

Do you run puppet master?

Do you revive people?

[harsh salmon]

I’m not familiar with that talent

[stone canyon]

Those scores are pretty irrelevant

[torpid girder]

The team score basically means nothing iirc cuz the way it's calculated is really weird

[harsh salmon]

I do yea

[near wyvern]

+50% increased coherency radius

[harsh salmon]

Oh?

[harsh salmon]

Ah yea I don’t

[torpid girder]

i would probs just pay attention to the most important stats and judge how well u did based off of that

besides like actually telling how ur playing midgame ofc

[stone canyon]

I turned those scores off and just got that other dmg log submod that shows that in more detail

[near wyvern]

That's probs why

[harsh salmon]

Damage, offense and defense?

Along with like enemies killed and whatnot

[near wyvern]

Depends what you are going after

[potent echo]

Team score is good in a way you can feel good when you are top, and blame weird calculations if you are bottom

[flint aspen]

is the autopistol a bad choice for psyker?

[near wyvern]

The ovenproof plugin is better one cause it separates specials, elites, ranged melee units etc so you can more specifically examine if the build works as you think

[near wyvern]

Columnus IAG is currently the better auto pistol

[potent echo]

Autopistol got nerfed, it now does bad crit dmg and bad finesse

So yea just use the ciag

[flint aspen]

...and I just built one too

[potent echo]

Well it's still usable

[harsh salmon]

Oof

It’s good

[potent echo]

Just go out there and brrrr

[flint aspen]

I'd rather use it over the revolver in terms of crosshairs

because my god the revolver crosshair is ASS

[harsh salmon]

Good thing you can get a mod called crosshair replacement

[flint aspen]

at the very least the autopistol has a dot at the center of it's crosshair

[near wyvern]

Luckily revolver has increased head hit boxes

So doesn't really matter

[flint aspen]

I really wished I got the ADS revolver but nah

it had to be the fanning revolver

[potent echo]

Revolver bullets are T H I C C

[stone canyon]

Both those after game mods show wildly inconsistent numbers for blazing trauma staff

[wind spruce]

That's because the og scoreboard mod has a bug, it overinflates your damage by incorrectly adding overkill damage to actual damage

That's particularly problematic for trauma which overkills so much

[near wyvern]

It is still usable but the optimal playstyle is quite boring TBH and requires specific blessings.

Build and play style in the beginning, the mission comes after, check the timestamps:

https://youtu.be/1qF5JthpWXg

[potent echo]

Probably inspite of it

[flint aspen]

this is the revolver I currently have

if only, if only this was an ADS revolver

[potent echo]

Should extract HC4 honestly

[near wyvern]

This only means trauma is ready for increased difficulty

Or swap crucian roulette to sustained fire

[potent echo]

Or use it until you are sick of it, then extract

[flint aspen]

I used it once

[plucky flax]

Melky man giving me an okay blaze trauma.

[flint aspen]

I feel fucking weak using it as psyker because of the crosshair

[potent echo]

I think it's just weak

[near wyvern]

That ain't a bad base to build on

[flint aspen]

at least with the autopistol I can use it to shred some hordes I guess?

[plucky flax]

Aye my current one is similar I'll buy this and keep it in the storage for fun.

[flint aspen]

someone suggested me to put infested or maniac on my autopistol

[near wyvern]

You will run out of ammo.

[flint aspen]

as either shred the horde or dreg rager gtfo

[potent echo]

Shred some horde yea maybe kill 10 of them per magazine

[near wyvern]

The way it was put to work is you used creeping flames (ascendant blaze back in the days) and boosted it with pinning fire & blaze away

But that has been nerfed quite a bit

Altho you can access creeping flames a lot easier now

[flint aspen]

well, do lasguns work well for psyker

[rich jolt]

Yeah

Very ammo efficient

Laspistol is a great choice

But all the other lasguns are good too

Id personally choose the first model of the las pistol to start off and that should ease you in

[flint aspen]

the fast one or the slow one?

because I remember liking both

tho I did try using the ia and xii lasguns

[rich jolt]

The first model is the fast one

Both are good but ive heard the slower one had worse ammo economy

[wind spruce]

If only

@near wyvern this line in the atheneum re combat axes, do you just mean more damage good so you can one shot headshot more often?

"Combat Axes greatly benefit from Warp Siphon with a Warp Battery due to how Brutal Momentum works, so if your build already has those talents you should definitely give Rashad a try."

[torpid girder]

just blew myself 3x in 1 match wooooo

[radiant frigate]

that sounds a little dumb

[torpid girder]

:D :D :D :D

[near wyvern]

Yes the more you can one shot the better you can cleave through

It's a feed back loop, more damage gives you easier one shots which gives you more damage

And cleave

[wind spruce]

Yeah sweet, just double checking thats what you meant

[vague musk]

Could you keep psionics charges forever with lightning

[leaden mulch]

which melee is good for both hoard and armored target? combat axe?

[radiant frigate]

had something strange just now

disrupt destiny not stacking

only the 2.5s movespeed buff was coming up sometimes

but no stacks

and then other times it would stack normally

[stone canyon]

This would be me if id suddenly drop Venting Shriek for Shield

[torpid girder]

I was using shriek 🥹

[near wyvern]

Rashad is the most balanced between horde and armoured targets but you can also balance this with the choice of your ranged & blitz

[rigid sky]

And then once you learn to manage that, you have Gazssail Gunker waiting for you :)

[torpid girder]

If I blow myself up again while using shriek I'm actually uninstalling

[rigid sky]

Warp Rider and Warp Nexus are troll.

[torpid girder]

oh my GOD i give up

[plucky flax]

Don't play hab dreyko or you'll have a bad time.

[mighty fractal]

GOOD time

you mean

[torpid girder]

idek what's happening these missions should be easy

[mighty fractal]

purg and trauma players should love hab dreyko

[torpid girder]

I just get caught out and then blow myself up and die

[median elk]

luve me hub
simple as

[mighty fractal]

you just explode nonstop hordes for ten minutes straight

I hate the rest of the map because of narrow walkways and barrels

But the finale is love

[mighty fractal]

Which staff?

[torpid girder]

trauma

[plucky flax]

Finale when no one ever want to do the objectives.

[mighty fractal]

Ahh

[torpid girder]

i've just been playing for too long i need sleep or something idk

[mighty fractal]

Are you using Inner Tranquility

Yeah get some rest

I only really blow myself up when I'm tired and am spamming LMB shots

then try to rmb like a dummy

oops!

[rigid sky]

You know what I noticed?

When you run Shriek and let yourself overload on purpose so you can cancel with Shriek

You become a fucking mutant/poxhound magnet

[sullen sphinx]

Yep, those guys will run through your team just to get you

[rigid sky]

I mean I have to applaud their target prioritisation in that moment

They have a half-second to nail the forced-explosion

But they karking get it

[austere crest]

isnt this how launching Creeping Flames works? I usually go to shakey hands and blast em

[rigid sky]

That is my intent

The reality is that as soon as the shake hands starts

Mutant rams into me from offscreen

And that forces the self explosion

[potent echo]

You can tell if they are targeting you based on the volume of the screaming

Same goes for hounds

[sullen sphinx]

After few snipes I just shriek around 90% peril because of them

[flint aspen]

BRICKED

(most likely)

[sullen sphinx]

[flint aspen]

and it has good stats too

fuck you techpriest

[tired estuary]

Just flush crit dmg for maniac or smth and reassuring for dumdum and it'll be fine lol

[wind spruce]

That's not bricked. Go with what @tired estuary said

Or unyielding over maniac

Crit damage is actually ok on las pistols too

They have one of the highest crit multipliers in the game

[tired estuary]

ye

[wind spruce]

It's pretty bonkers, really. Over 300% on unyielding

[radiant frigate]

i have changed my mind, gun psyker is alright

[wind spruce]

Welcome to the darkside

What gun/build brought you round?

[plucky flax]

Check my backup blaze trauma I bought from melk today.

Selling it for $10.

[wind spruce]

Sold

[sullen sphinx]

Nice one, can be repurposed into Rending one as well

[flat iron]

Hello, quick question
Does anyone know if the Chem-dog rebreather for the psyker has a voice modulation effect, or just muffled?

[wind spruce]

Just muffled, it's lame

[flat iron]

Dang

ty for answer

[radiant frigate]

columnus

i still prefer my own build though

gun psyker feels a little awkward but performs decently enough

[plucky flax]

Twins normal mode xd

[rigid sky]

The awkwardness is the fun part imo

It's a necessary limiter on the incredible power it has

I actually like Mind In Motion for gunker

Because of Assail and Gaze

You can reposition while building up stacks to get that perfect swap-and-unload moment

I just wish Disrupt Destiny worked properly

But the patch where they fix that will probably be the patch where they cut the bollocks off the CIAG

[austere crest]

XD thats the WORST FEELING when u have the ult and cant freakinguse it lol

[rigid sky]

I feel the judgement from the blunts

It's like "why didn't you Shriek? Are you stupid?"

[rotund fable]

Got this as a purple mission reward, decided to concecrate it and hadron gave me this...

[rigid sky]

And I'm like "yes, but for different reasons than you think"

[wind spruce]

Las pistol works incredibly well with assail gunker

[austere crest]

XD

[rigid sky]

Which one do you prefer for it?

[wind spruce]

I use the faster shooting one but only because I haven't build a decent new one yet

[rigid sky]

I would lean that way too I think. Gaze seems to benefit faster weapons more imo

I don't understand revolver psykers

Beyond revolver simply being OP in the hands of anybody at all

[wind spruce]

It's all about that assail weaving. It gets bonkers when it's benefiting from dum dum and perks

[rigid sky]

Already bonkers just from DD imo

It feels super anemic without it

Even the EP Assails feel a bit shit

DD and Assail are a match formed on Holy Terra

When DD decides to work

[sullen sphinx]

They'll make it that stacks of DD drops like Warp Charges, it would improve it even with all that janky use, it's my biggest issue with it

[rigid sky]

I kinda like the all-or-nothing nature of it

I just don't like that sometimes it literally doesn't work

You get the support node activation pop up even

Which means the game recognises that you should be gaining a stack or 3

But you don't get the stacks

[sullen sphinx]

Yea, that's annoying too

[rigid sky]

Only seen it happen in auric damnation BTW personally

So I wonder if it's a server load issue

Like, idk, maybe being targeted by a dog or mutant counts as an invisible debuff

[sullen sphinx]

Maybe, but I've never encountered problems with Warp Charges gain, so maybe there are problems within the ability

[rigid sky]

It's frustrating because it's easily the most fun keystone imo

But if I'm gonna lose my stack I want it to be because I personally suck

Not because the game is like "man, fuck you for trying to do the goofy high risk shit"

[red jacinth]

whats the ideal perks for voidstrike?

[plucky flax]

Flak + maniac/unyielding/carapace.

I personall like flak carapace. Unyielding is not that desireable imo.

Maniac will let you kill specials easier, although my void build use assail so I don't need maniac on my void.

[red jacinth]

ik quell is a dump but will this hurt?

[plucky flax]

Well I don't think quell is dump but the high damage and charge rate are good.

If anything blast radius is the dump for void.

[sullen sphinx]

With max resistance it should be manageable, will sting a bit, but it should be fine. You still need to pray for Hadron not to brick it

[red jacinth]

also suggestions for void build?

[misty cypress]

Smite and/or venting shriek to deal with crowds that are too spread out for the staff. Disrupt destiny can propel the damage of your void strike really well but you don’t have to go that route.

[rigid sky]

I never know which blitz to take for it tbh

Voidstaff is such a great generalist weapon

[sullen sphinx]

Yea, you can bring any blitz you want, I prefer Smite for more CC

[misty cypress]

I feel like it’s the least generalist weapon imo. It doesn’t have the cc or area of effect that other staffs have. Smite patches that need for both cc and area of effect

[rigid sky]

Just be careful we don't say Smite three times lest we trigger the wrath of the "damage is the only thing" people

[sullen sphinx]

Let me recite the incantaion... Smite and Dome are good choices

[rigid sky]

Surge and Purgatus are way more specialised imo

[red jacinth]

also nexus and surge or nexus asnd flurry?

[misty cypress]

Those people clearly haven’t heard of venting flames+smite combo

[rigid sky]

Trauma is the other general purpose one

[misty cypress]

I like nexus and flurry for more consistent results

[rigid sky]

Does better AoE and much worse long range

[rigid sky]

Both are acceptable

Also Transfer Peril and Warp Flurry if you wanna just be an endless warp cannon

[red jacinth]

would smth like this be good

[sullen sphinx]

Would prefer Warp Charges, DD is better with Assail

[misty cypress]

I say yes

[rigid sky]

Ditch the middle DD node

Very low impact

[misty cypress]

If you use voidstrike you don’t need assail. Unless youre using smite all the time

[rigid sky]

The peril reduction one is not worthwhile

[misty cypress]

I’d use that talent on another +15 toughness

[sullen sphinx]

Yea, it just very convinient to deal with spread out trash shooters

[rigid sky]

Possibly the coherency range increase

[red jacinth]

i would only use smite to get out of bad situations

[rigid sky]

Depending on the map tbh

[misty cypress]

Exactly

[rigid sky]

Sometimes that radius increase is good

[red jacinth]

i hate it when people pull it out and can't put it away

[rigid sky]

It's very much a point #30 thing

[rigid sky]

Smite paraphimosis

[sullen sphinx]

"UNLIMITED POWAAAA" mode is a bit addicting

[rigid sky]

On a side note

The voice lines on scrier's gaze for male loner

I mean, male loner in general, but especially that one

"I THINK IT'S TIME TO KILL EVERYONE"

"YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! ISN'T THAT NICE!?"

However much they are paying that voice actor it isn't enough

[sullen sphinx]

Male loner VA is great

[feral verge]

female loner va is great too

[rigid sky]

Prefer male because the level of ham is just so much higher

Also four shortened lifespans

[little rapids]

surge and flurry

fr though i dont really get nexus and flurry

id rather have a smaller crit chance but the double shots and keep flurry on

[red jacinth]

how does surge even work

[rigid sky]

When you crit, you fire an additional shot. I think the shot counts as a minimum charge secondary

It might be a primary

I can't remember, Void is my least played staff as much as I love it in concept

[little rapids]

i dont think its minimum charge

i could be wrong

but from gameplay it looks and feels like two regular shots

so if you fire a fully charged shot, you get two fully charged crits

i think everyone should try surge on vs its the best blessing imo

[rigid sky]

I read in the Atheneum that this isn't the case but I read it a while ago

[little rapids]

hmmm

[rigid sky]

I Might Be Wrong

[little rapids]

i can go check but idk how. seeing if the damage numbers arent equal

[rigid sky]

Comparable mind moment

[little rapids]

ill go check rn

and post a video

[little rapids]

yeah

the damage doesnt seem equal

but it doesnt seem like not fully charged

https://imgur.com/a/szGQMd4

[rigid sky]

It might be that the second can't crit maybe

Try it with a minimum charge shot perhaps

See if the secondary projectile does the same as in your first test or less

[little rapids]

maybe im dumb isnt yellow damage crit

so why would it be yellow number

[rigid sky]

Maybe idk

I don't really use the psykhanium

[little rapids]

okay but im too lazy to video u will have to trust me

[rigid sky]

My test environment is my production environment lol

[little rapids]

ok

minimum charge

did equal damage

228 = 228

max charge did less damage

so i guess the secondary projectile cannot charge to full

but still has some charge

as it was like 900 something and not 228

[red jacinth]

i kinda want to run surge with assail. any suggestions?

[rigid sky]

Good combo imo

[little rapids]

makes sense to me

assail makes up for multi target and range

surge lacks that

[red jacinth]

Any ideas for a build?

[rigid sky]

Venting Shriek w/ flames as a given for Surge

I would probably take warp charges

Since it works so well with shriek

But you could probably go EP if you like

[red jacinth]

i only really take venting lol

[rigid sky]

It's the best in general

I like Dome for Trauma (mostly just to have some variety) and Gaze is really fun for guns

But all the other staves, I struggle to justify not taking Shriek

(And plenty of people would argue that Shriek is better for Trauma too)

[little rapids]

i feel like ppl slap this on every build

lol

[rigid sky]

It is the best and the safest for you individually

[little rapids]

i only use dome

fiteme

[rigid sky]

Dome is good too. I like to take it with EP since it's not spammy like Shriek

I use it to leverage brain rupture mostly

[tulip kettle]

dome is good for saving idiots

shriek is good for actually killing stuff

i like to kill stuff, not babysit idiots

[tired estuary]

dome can be good for like, aggressive movement vs shooter walls too but a lot of dome psykers just crap it down on their own feet when its off cd

[little rapids]

sometimes i am the idiot

[tulip kettle]

druuuueeee

but, talking of dome vs shooter walls

just shriek at them

the best thing about dome, imo, is it encourages pug gamers to play together

big blue "stand here and play with team" sign

[red jacinth]

should i try drop smth for the last keystone nodes orrrr?

[tulip kettle]

what are you running?

[red jacinth]

surge and ds4

[tulip kettle]

i mean it seems fine

got some good synergies going

im assuming you run the surge with flak and + elite then the DS with maniac and carapace

unless you feel that you dont need KD i wouldnt drop anything for the last 2 keystone nodes

[harsh salmon]

my gun psyker build

[tulip kettle]

looks... odd. but if it works for you great

[red jacinth]

running ds4 with flakiac

[tulip kettle]

okay well, why?

[harsh salmon]

what about it? if you are talking about the collimnus, its not 100% yet, not sure what to do with it. so

[red jacinth]

preferred

[tulip kettle]

like sure dudes 🙂 im not gonna shit on your builds if you like em

but for both of you i think theres some misunderstandings and anti synergies

[little rapids]

rate my build, no talents (its the only thing i enjoy)

[harsh salmon]

oh? well im interested to hear this part

mainly about the anti-synergies

[tulip kettle]

you took smite, which does nothing for you

[harsh salmon]

i sort of have to take smite here, i would perfer asail though

[tulip kettle]

well, you dont

why do you think you need smite

[harsh salmon]

you have to get smite or BR to grab PA

[tulip kettle]

lol

and why would you want PA

[harsh salmon]

for lower cooldown on Scrier's Gaze

[tulip kettle]

okay dude 🙂

you also took seers instead of prescience at the same time

[harsh salmon]

plus team support too

[tulip kettle]

really like that cdr on scriers, huh?

just checking

you are aware

it doesnt work when scriers is active?

[rigid sky]

Psychinetic Aura is really good but not so good that you cannot take a build that can't path there

[tulip kettle]

PA is really not so good on gunker with SG.

especially missing out on prescience and assail

[harsh salmon]

yea? 10% more ults for the entire team

[tulip kettle]

so you can take CDR talents that dont function

[rigid sky]

Gunker without Assail is sadness

[tulip kettle]

and smite which you wont use

[harsh salmon]

im hitting more then enough crits

[tulip kettle]

its a nonsense build but im trying to be nice

[red jacinth]

me?

[tulip kettle]

im sure you are dude 🙂

yes

[harsh salmon]

iv used it a little here and there to decent effect

[tulip kettle]

you also

[sullen sphinx]

Well, if you like this build that's okay

[tulip kettle]

thats what i said 🙂

if it works for you great

[rigid sky]

10% more ults, but you're gonna be vacuuming up all the ammo

Because you don't have Assail to do the light work

Gun on Psyker is for the heavy lifting

[tulip kettle]

nono, he has a DS with wekapsot dmg for that 🙂

that he chose to put on it

[rigid sky]

How long is DS again? 100 yard reach?

[tulip kettle]

im just going to leave this here

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2917274959

[red jacinth]

show what you would run then

[tulip kettle]

well dude, you say you took a surge staff, and a DS, with flakiac on both

[rigid sky]

Actually this would be an awesome psyker ult

[red jacinth]

i said flakiac on ds4

[tulip kettle]

okay, and on the surge?

im scared now

[rigid sky]

Make your weapon hilariously long

[red jacinth]

flak and elites lol

[rigid sky]

Psychinetic Overcompensation

[tulip kettle]

right, so as i said...

you have 2 weapons

that both do the exact same thing

[sullen sphinx]

To flex on crushers

[tulip kettle]

no way to deal with carapace

and no way to deal with hordes

its... nonsense

[harsh salmon]

yea? im hitting alot of headshots, so it clears hoards like mad when Scriers and DD stacks are up, cause Finesse damage effects both weakspot hits and crits

[red jacinth]

what lmao

[rigid sky]

BEHOLD MY INCOMPARABLE WANG

[tulip kettle]

yeah im out 🙂

[red jacinth]

ds4 has uncanny and rampage lol

[tulip kettle]

right... and do you know what weakspot damage... does?

[rigid sky]

Fwiw weakspot damage is worthless

[tulip kettle]

and, do you think a DS4, is an efficient tool for killing hordes?

[red jacinth]

no?

[tulip kettle]

theres 2 convos going on here

[harsh salmon]

more damage when you hit a thing in the head,

[sullen sphinx]

It can deal with hordes, just not as good as other stuff, but not as terrible

[rigid sky]

But far less than you would think

It only applies to the modifier

Not to the entire hit

[tulip kettle]

it adds 10%, to the weakspot damage

[rigid sky]

Same with crit damage btw

[tulip kettle]

which is already less than 20% of the dmg of an attack

you are increasing the damage by around 2% total with that perk

but nono dude

i dont know what im talking about, your build makes a lot of sense and CDR totally works with scriers gaze

[rigid sky]

Domshizzle has some weird takes sometimes but he's absolutely right about this stuff

[red jacinth]

surge can do "ok" i also have assail + venting

[rigid sky]

That said you can run decidedly suboptimal, actually wrong shit, and still carry with it

[long wharf]

what's the daily argument today, siblings?

[tulip kettle]

very true

[rigid sky]

You can win auric maelstrom in greys

[tulip kettle]

DAMMIT

wrong reply

no argument, just

[long wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/gotcha-i-got-you-i-get-it-gif-15660969

[tulip kettle]

every time -.-

[rigid sky]

It's an understanding of mechanics issue today

[tulip kettle]

nono, post a nonsense build, ask for critique, then disagree with the pointers given

[little rapids]

no bad builds allowed
initiate protocol make fun of your build

[long wharf]

that's my favorite protocol

[tulip kettle]

i explicitly started with

if it works for you and you enjoy it run whatever you like 🙂

[harsh salmon]

wait what does this even mean?

[little rapids]

it means its not as big as you expected

[tulip kettle]

i explained above mcbad

[rigid sky]

OK, example

[tulip kettle]

say you hit 1000 dmg

[rigid sky]

Weapon hits normally for 100

Weakspot hits for 120

Your weakspot bonus is 20

Then apply, what is it, 10% increased weakspot damage?

That takes you to a whopping 122.

[tulip kettle]

perfect kaliste

[rigid sky]

I don't blame anybody for not intuitively getting that byw

*btw

Because it is bullshit

But that's Darktide

Wazzle wozzle

[tulip kettle]

and as kaliste also said, its the same calc for "+ crit dmg"

[sullen sphinx]

Weakspot damage is weird, join the Trauma cult so you don't worry about it

[rigid sky]

Some weapons do have better weakspot/crit modifiers btw

Laspistols for example

But it just pushes the perks from being dogshit to being merely bad.

[tulip kettle]

and EVEN THEN its still just far worse than taking an ADM modifier like +flak

[harsh salmon]

let me try somthing, cause rn im hitting 33 to the body, 261 to the head no crit

[rigid sky]

Which enemy type?

[harsh salmon]

unarmored

[rigid sky]

No, which type

[long wharf]

yeah, even if +10% crit damage worked the way it should, it'd still be 15% off what +25% armor type gives you

[rigid sky]

Groaners? Dreg bruisers?

[sullen sphinx]

Head and body may have different armor

[rigid sky]

Some enemies have variable hit zones

For example, a Mauler has a Carapace helmet and Flak everywhere else

[harsh salmon]

tested on the weak mobs and the yellow gunner the elite

[rigid sky]

Hence why most weapons kill Maulers faster with body hits

[long wharf]

crushers are the only enemy in the game with carapace body armor

[rigid sky]

You gotta name them

Wait, dreg gunners

[tulip kettle]

he means groaners i guess

[rigid sky]

K, I would need to see the chart

Any siblings have it saved?

[tulip kettle]

for what, adm locations on mobs?

[rigid sky]

Yep

That half body colourful thingy

That usually gets referenced

[long wharf]

check pins

[tulip kettle]

https://imgur.com/a/Selj5nI/layout/grid

[long wharf]

it's there

[harsh salmon]

DReg gunner and...groaners?

[tulip kettle]

if they knew what pins were, i assume they would have read the aethenium and would understand why the builds are nonsense

[long wharf]

nah, never assume someone has read channel pins

[tulip kettle]

sorry im hungover and feeling like an asshole

[rigid sky]

Gunner is Flak body, unarmoured head

[long wharf]

it's completely random, from user perspective, if anything is pinned or if anything useful is pinned

[tulip kettle]

apologies everyone

[rigid sky]

Groaners are full unarmoured

And squishy as shit

[long wharf]

groaners and poxwalkers are the horde

[rigid sky]

Like 100 HP iirc

Poxwalkers are full infested with 200

[tulip kettle]

200 for groaners

[rigid sky]

Or other way around?

[tulip kettle]

infested for pox

[rigid sky]

Ah, thank you for the correction sibling

[harsh salmon]

and now without weakspot damage its 33 to the body and 245 to the head, vs 261

[tulip kettle]

pox 300 hp

so youre going from 245 to 261

gaining a whopping 16 dmg

on a unit that is already dying

and meanwhile, you cant even 1 hit poxwalkers

at least putting infested there would allow you to 1 shot both groaners and pox in the head

still a terrible use of the duelling sword

[harsh salmon]

would you reccomend carapace then?

[tulip kettle]

on DS? yes.

and maniac

[rigid sky]

But again I would always forgive not understanding this bit until it's properly explained to you

Because it is bullshit design

[tulip kettle]

with good stat roll and + maniac, you can 1 shot mutants

[rigid sky]

It is counterintuitive

And it is not how the game feels like it should be

[tulip kettle]

which is a very important breakpoint.

[rigid sky]

(Also differing armour zones is weird and complex)

[long wharf]

one-stabbing mutants feels so good

[rigid sky]

(Fucking world of tanks all over again)

[tulip kettle]

i played mael last night and got to chainstab 6 in a row

[long wharf]

they run at you and you just go "Not today, Satan!"

[rigid sky]

DS4's main job is to assassinate Mutants.

[tulip kettle]

it was fking AWESOME

[long wharf]

yeah, waves of mutants is my favorite maelstrom modifier for that very reason

stab stab stab

[little rapids]

can deimos also do it?

[sullen sphinx]

DS4 can assassinate a lot of things, it's such a nice weapon

[rigid sky]

Yep but clunkier

[harsh salmon]

are you saying maniac just for the mutants?

[rigid sky]

Needs to land a H2

On the head

[long wharf]

deimos doesn't attack as fast as dueling sword

[rigid sky]

DS4 does it on any heavy

[sullen sphinx]

Yea, that's the main purpose

[rigid sky]

Deimos is your second best anti-mutant weapon

It has better pushes and access to Deflector if you are into that

[little rapids]

i am a deflector enjoyer

[rigid sky]

Other than that DS4 is better

[rigid sky]

There are dozens of us!

[long wharf]

with ds4, you have no need to push

that's not what it's for

except for bursters

[rigid sky]

Everybody needs to push sometimes

DS4 is often enough

[long wharf]

only on the toilet, sibling

[rigid sky]

But Deimos is better

[long wharf]

corpsestarch is hell

[sullen sphinx]

Smite is a good pusher

[long wharf]

actually, smite can be unreliable

[rigid sky]

Take venting Shriek :)

[long wharf]

couple nights ago, I was watching a buddy smiting a couple crushers, and they were straight ignoring it

[long wharf]

that happens as a matter of course

[sullen sphinx]

Crushers have some weird long stagger immunity after being staggered hard enough, so maybe that was it

[long wharf]

maybe

surge staff reliably stuns everything

mutants take two shots, usually

[sullen sphinx]

I mostly feel it on Trauma, when crushers refuses to go down after being thrown around

[flint aspen]

does deimos benefit from uncanny strike?

[rigid sky]

Very Very Yes.

It's the "always" blessing

[flint aspen]

fuck I don't have enough melkbucks to get it for my deimos

fuck, shit

[long wharf]

deimos special attack can instant full stack uncanny strike and executor

[flint aspen]

tho melk only has uncanny level 3

[long wharf]

don't spend Milkies on a blessing that isn't t4

a waste IMO

[flint aspen]

tho he has level 4 deflector

[long wharf]

unless you literally have all the t4 blessings

[sullen sphinx]

Unless it's a godroll weapon with perfect stats

[flint aspen]

wait that's deflector

[buoyant maple]

Traitor curse pt2 added 2.5s stagger immunity after last stagger for the Ogryn enemies

You can’t stun lock crushers anymore

[sullen sphinx]

Yea, they have enough time to do their overhead attack

[long wharf]

you can with surge

at least, last time I tested it

pretty sure that was post curse pt2

[sullen sphinx]

Does surge count as a stagger? I thought it's a separate stuff

[long wharf]

yeah, surge is a stun

I'm pretty sure

I'd have to check the code to be sure, and I definitely don't feel like wading through Lua today

[flint aspen]

on a scale of 1 to 10

how fucked is my illisi

[tulip kettle]

which one?

the right hand one is awesome

[long wharf]

yeah, swap deflector for slaughterer

[rigid sky]

Unless it's transformatively strong even at 3 and you don't have either

[long wharf]

and you have yourself a proper horde sword

[flint aspen]

the equiped one

[rigid sky]

I had to do it for power Cycler 3

Still don't have 4

[tulip kettle]

put + flak on it instead

[flint aspen]

replace weak spot with it?

[tulip kettle]

the blessings are perfect if you want deflector

typ

yup

like yeah uncanny 4 is cool and all but 3 is still just fine

[long wharf]

I've been meaning to craft a new illisi, I just so infrequently use it that I keep forgetting

[tulip kettle]

same! the first one i built has deflectgor uncanny and flak on it, so i never replaced it

the stat rolls could sure be better though. But after spending time here i became a DS4 addict

[long wharf]

mine is deflector+slaughterer

and I just basically never use deflector

[tulip kettle]

same

i used to use it, a lot

now ive got used to not having it, i always forget to use it when i use the illisi

[long wharf]

slaughterer+uncanny will make a proper horde sword

yep, and whenever I'm not using my ds4, I miss how quickly it lets you move and dodge

[sullen sphinx]

Yea, tried to use it, but most range damage I take is from sneak attacks, so no time to put block up

[tulip kettle]

yup mobility addicts anonymous

and psyker doesnt struggle for horde clear options

[long wharf]

not at all

[tulip kettle]

between all the staves and assail i dont need my melee weapon to be dedicated horde clear

[long wharf]

melee is dedicated anti-mutant now

and mauler+crusher

[tulip kettle]

mutants + crushers for me but ye

[sullen sphinx]

Can be decent against ragers as well with its range

[tulip kettle]

yeah being able to stagger them out of their combo with the special is nice

but i DO find trying to fight rager groups with DS can be a bit fucky with the hit reg

like, you special stab, get the squishy sound effect

[long wharf]

yeah, it's not the safest strategy

[tulip kettle]

but they keep on trucking

[long wharf]

which is where trauma/void comes in

[tulip kettle]

yup, or assail + gun on gunker etc

[sullen sphinx]

Trauma blast and clean up with DS

[tulip kettle]

i find with the 2 traumas i use, if im trauma-ing everything is dying

except mutants which ignore it

[rigid sky]

Purgatus puff

[tulip kettle]

hence stabby time

[rigid sky]

Bosses also very bad for Trauma

Tickles them

[tulip kettle]

yeah mostly

[long wharf]

yeah, purge puffs stagger everything but crushers

and mutants

[rigid sky]

Feels like primary fire would be better

[tulip kettle]

blaze trauma LMB spam is the one

[sullen sphinx]

It is tolerable on the Beast tho

[rigid sky]

I just spam brain rupture at a safe distance

My boss fighting skills are lacking

So I do that and focus on the additional threats

[tulip kettle]

general rule is, plogryn is always ez mode

chaos spawn just block and kite until it de-aggroes

[long wharf]

as long as you aren't the only player engaging the boss, rending trauma means your job is to keep that boss brittled

[rigid sky]

I'm a blazing stan

[tulip kettle]

if you play blazing then yeah LMB spam it

[long wharf]

shame, bosses have warp resistance that makes soulblaze very weak on them

[rigid sky]

14 stacks of purgatus is OK enough

But 3 at a time from Trauma

Isn't meant to really hurt elites

It's an anti-trash tech

[long wharf]

which is why I run rending trauma

[tulip kettle]

yeah but you can reach the 14 in a matter of seconds then shriek

and push it to 20

[long wharf]

trash is going to die either way

[rigid sky]

Valid but the anti-trash is really nice

[rigid sky]

Only in the middle. On the outside Soulblaze does a lot of work

[long wharf]

trauma epicenter needs to be large, frankly

[rigid sky]

Soulblaze gives a much wider death radius

[long wharf]

that's true

but I run assail with trauma

[rigid sky]

If the epicentre were bigger, you wouldn't bother with blazing

[long wharf]

trauma comes out for the things that need to be knocked down or brittled

[rigid sky]

Fair

[tulip kettle]

i actually cant find any build that is worth using smite on

[rigid sky]

I do the dome/rupture variant

[long wharf]

I don't have a single build using smite

I hate smite

[rigid sky]

Experimenting with using it for voidstrike

[little rapids]

sad palpatine noises

[rigid sky]

But haven't tried it yet

Idk about Surge since I hate surge

[tulip kettle]

i smite stuff, and think to myself

[long wharf]

problem is smite doesn't synergize with anything

[sullen sphinx]

I like it as a backup tool on my Trauma, and to push stuff away

[tulip kettle]

i coul;d have jkust killed this stuff instead

[rigid sky]

Voidstrike doesn't really need any blitz at all

[long wharf]

it doesn't crit, it doesn't hit weakspots

[rigid sky]

So I figure emergency Smite button

[buoyant maple]

Smite has better pathing options

[sullen sphinx]

Also on Hunting grounds Smite makes it so easy to deal with dogs

[tulip kettle]

so does assail...

throw 3 daggers and kill all the dogs

[long wharf]

assail with perilous combustion trivializes dogs

you kill two and the rest die to soulblaze

[tulip kettle]

instead of holding them still and waiting for someone else to kill them

[rigid sky]

Think Smite actually kills them

They have no HP

Almost

[buoyant maple]

Very slowly yes

[long wharf]

I'm sure it does

[sullen sphinx]

Sometimes they can run mixed into the hordes, so it covers for that

[rigid sky]

Quickly enough

[long wharf]

smite doesn't do anything "quickly enough"

[plucky flax]

[rigid sky]

It generates peril quickly enough

[sullen sphinx]

It locks people in place quickly enough

[buoyant maple]

300

[long wharf]

I want the original surge staff back

[rigid sky]

Oh shit really?

The hunting grounds ones?

[buoyant maple]

Yea lol

Hound packs are 300 each

Regular hound is 1400

[rigid sky]

I retract my statement

[buoyant maple]

They still share hounds’ 3x melee weakness

[sullen sphinx]

Well, it still kills, but mostly it stops their movement

[plucky flax]

Why the new surge staff is so strong.

Boom boom zap zap everything dies.

[rigid sky]

Must be why they feel so squishy then

[long wharf]

because you felt like you had real CC ability with the original surge staff

it felt good to go "You guys over there, fuck you don't move"

[rigid sky]

You know what this game needs? An in-game codex rejectaris

[long wharf]

"Die you group of scabs"

[rigid sky]

Shouldn't have to go into the psykhanium

Every enemy type you encounter should get added to an in-game knowledge base

[plucky flax]

Old surge is only good against scab.

New surge good against everything.

It does very good monster damage too.

[tulip kettle]

a collection of tools. what is smite actually for?

[tulip kettle]

including the player using it 😉

[plucky flax]

Tru you can easily explode too.

[rigid sky]

Multi-target blitz that can reach psychinetic aura

[long wharf]

original surge was a proper CC tool

that could also do decent damage to scabs

it worked well, had a proper niche

new surge is not a CC tool

[tulip kettle]

if im going for a left side or mid tree build, its likely im not gonna need the blitz at all

[long wharf]

and the damage it does is out-shined by literally every other staff

[tulip kettle]

so at that point smite is just a tax to reach PA that i wont use once in the game

[rigid sky]

It is too comparable with Voidstrike now imo

I greatly dislike Surge Stadf

Staff

[long wharf]

it doesn't stun things as easily as old surge did

[rigid sky]

I guess it's a decent beginner weapo

Weapon

[plucky flax]

Idk how you think new surge doesn't do damage.

[long wharf]

I didn't say it does no damage

it's out-classed by the damage other staves can do

[silent coral]

in a game that places a heavy imphasis on audio cues, why does high peril mute audio

[long wharf]

it has no niche

[plucky flax]

Against specials and shooters?

It clears them the fastest by far.

[long wharf]

not faster than assail

[rigid sky]

Because getting glomped by a mutant while at 100% and just about to Shriek to save you own life is HILARIOUS

[plucky flax]

That's not a staff?

[long wharf]

other combat options make surge moot

[sullen sphinx]

Well, if stuff is really crumped Trauma can outdamage it

[rigid sky]

I feel like Surge is Brain Rupture on a stick

[long wharf]

there is nothing surge does that makes it shine

[rigid sky]

And brain rupture is cooler

[long wharf]

it's not unique in any way now

[rigid sky]

Therefore bettee

Better

[long wharf]

other than being a lightning stick

[rigid sky]

Fuck me I hate this phone keyboard

[drifting eagle]

Audio cues? No wonder I run into so many daemonhosts

[tulip kettle]

that doesnt even make a cool lightning sound

[plucky flax]

Idk how you play surge but my surge build is #1 pick for a quickplay.

[tulip kettle]

just a lame bzzzzt

[long wharf]

right

[tulip kettle]

at least if it was a proper thundercrack sound effect it would feel badass

instead a fly buzzes past your head

[plucky flax]

I regularly do 700k+ damage in sub 30 mins with surge.

[little rapids]

do you guys think they will ever add a 5th force staff to the game

[long wharf]

you could have done more

[plucky flax]

No.

[rigid sky]

I think Surge would shine in Elite Resistance modifier

Which no longer exists

[plucky flax]

It's higher damage than trauma even.

[rigid sky]

(Because it was shit)

[long wharf]

well trauma isn't really for damage

[drifting eagle]

Maybe but autogun go chchchchchchchc at the speed of sound

[long wharf]

void will out damage surge, easily

[rigid sky]

True but it's not not for damage :D

[sullen sphinx]

Trauma can melt hordes by itself

[plucky flax]

Nah surge does way more.

Void gets carried by assail.

[long wharf]

not one bit

[tulip kettle]

that doesnt seem right...

[long wharf]

you can run void without assail and still destroy the run

[rigid sky]

Rending and Blazing traumas are very different animals

[tulip kettle]

i shoot my void at head height and kill 10 shotgunners

[plucky flax]

I run surge without assail and destroy the map.

[long wharf]

especially with True Aim giving you constant crits

[tulip kettle]

i shoot surge and one goes splat and one dances

[long wharf]

on damnation, you can have a group of three shooters

[little rapids]

wat

[long wharf]

surge one, it kills it and tickles the second

[little rapids]

me using void with smite :(

[plucky flax]

Yeah void sucks so bad against shooters.

[long wharf]

surge the third, it kills it and still only tickles the second

which is absurd

[sullen sphinx]

Yeah, void's main weakness is a big room with spread out enemies,

[long wharf]

it's bad enough it can take three surge strikes to kill a single crusher on damnation

[tulip kettle]

every staff would struggle there

[long wharf]

it feels bad that the secondary targets are just dancing funny until you target them directly

at least with old surge, the first two targets hit took full damage

new surge doesn't even do that

[sullen sphinx]

Actually, yea, it's a common problem for every staff if you think about it

[long wharf]

we used to complain that it was silly that only two of five enemies hit took real damage

[plucky flax]

Surge fares well against spread out shooters.

[long wharf]

now one of two does

[plucky flax]

Fast charge and auto aim.

[buoyant maple]

It’s similar to how a plasma vet would struggle against mass shooters

[tulip kettle]

i never find void to struggle with shooters or gunners

[rigid sky]

Except kinda not really

[long wharf]

yeah, saying void "struggles" is being a bit disingenuous

void is about positioning

[rigid sky]

Fire rate and ammo pool is enough

[long wharf]

you move to line those heads up

[rigid sky]

Void is slower than Plasma

[tulip kettle]

i mean, fractionally

[rigid sky]

Void is generally a jankier plasma with a Psyker shell

[tulip kettle]

if you are running flurry its very good

flurry + transfer is better than plasma for most things

[rigid sky]

I miss this style

[tulip kettle]

no need to "cool it down" or reload

[buoyant maple]

Plasma has an ammo economy to think about, and usually you don’t want to shoot a lot at regular shooter with it

[rigid sky]

But Nexus/Surge is hilarious

[long wharf]

void is plasma without the cleave, cover pierce, slower TTK, lack of rending, and no ammo tracking

[rigid sky]

Hi Crusher SPLAT

[tulip kettle]

yeah as above i have both

[long wharf]

on my plasma vet, I regularly shoot at normal shooters

[tulip kettle]

the 536 void one shots crushers

[long wharf]

why should I deny the mobs their glory-in-plasma?

[jaunty tiger]

No wonder I don't like playing void

[long wharf]

void is incredibly effective

[jaunty tiger]

It's just psyker flavored plasma 🤮

[plucky flax]

It's plasma gun but much worse.

[long wharf]

it's good for staggering bulwarks

you don't get plasma on psyker, so

[buoyant maple]

Psyker has lots of ways to stagger bulwarks tho?

[rigid sky]

I like that at least the Void has to be charged up

[long wharf]

sure, but the point is that void is very multi-purpose

[rigid sky]

I kinda hate that Plasma meta is all LMB all the time

[long wharf]

there's nothing dissatisfying about using void

[buoyant maple]

Plasma charged shots need buff

[rigid sky]

Like how Deimos meta is never use force strike

[buoyant maple]

[rigid sky]

Unironically, yes in a relative sense

LMB needs a nerf

[buoyant maple]

Dmg is fine just reduce charge shot ammo cost

Left click could use a nerf vs carapace

Maybe flak as well

[tulip kettle]

barely

i hold the rmb and left click whenever i line up with a head, and the thing dies

[rigid sky]

full for ogryn right?

[tulip kettle]

no need to quell and im charging enough to kill stuff in the time it takes to aim

but yes for ogryns

and maulers and such

[rigid sky]

that's fine then

I like it being variable

[tulip kettle]

but on plasma you would need to shoot 3-4 times LMB anyway

so its no slower

[long wharf]

plasma is definitely faster on anything requiring a single click

even two

on crushers, plasma TTK is still much faster than void if void has to charge up peril

plasma is automatically faster TTK on bulwarks

I'm fine with void and plasma being different

I think void's in a very good spot right now

surge is not

if surge did full damage to all targets hit, that'd be a start

[plucky flax]

That'll make it so op.

[long wharf]

nah

[rigid sky]

it only hits 2

that would be fair imo

[plucky flax]

Yeah but now you can kill 2 bulkwarks or crushers at the same time.

Making it double target dps staff rather than single.

[long wharf]

you can do that with trauma

[rigid sky]

full damage to second only if it crits maybe

[long wharf]

plasma can kill up to 4 crushers in one shot

[plucky flax]

Yeah and surge you don't need to even aim.

Just right click at a general direction.

[long wharf]

surge doesn't hit weakspots

[buoyant maple]

Charged shot, building for carapace 1 tap breakpoint

[long wharf]

so that's not a point in its favor

[buoyant maple]

Barely anybody uses charged shots on plasma

[plucky flax]

With 20% crit chance bonus and crit damage bonus via modifier.

[long wharf]

I do on bosses

[plucky flax]

Also warp nexus on top.

[long wharf]

charged plasma on bosses after you've brittled them is massive damage

[buoyant maple]

Plasma doesn’t have bad unyielding ADM

[plucky flax]

Surge staff 186k monster damage Xd

[long wharf]

doesn't matter, you can still see the brittleness in action

[flint aspen]

but yeah, is uncanny 3 good for deimos

for now at least

[rigid sky]

I like to alpha strike ogryn with it before they aggro

[tulip kettle]

this is on a build without warp charges or peril reduction, if you build for it the void is even stronger than this

[plucky flax]

256 smol shooters killed.

[long wharf]

boss damage you wouldn't have that boss damage if you were playing with other players that had bosskill

surge is not bosskill

gungryn is

[tulip kettle]

the only thing slowing me down is being old and slow at aiming

[long wharf]

hammer zealot is

[plucky flax]

No but it still does decent monster damage.

[buoyant maple]

U are aware that extra brittleness/rending past 100% ADM is converted into dmg at 4:1 ratio right

[tulip kettle]

its great

[plucky flax]

And I queue up to green monster maelstrom. It's not my fault they didn't bring monster damage to a monster modifier.

[long wharf]

yes

[rigid sky]

by Psyker standards it kinda is

[jaunty tiger]

plasma is also not bosskill

[near drift]

if you didn't nuke the boss in 5 seconds you SUCK

[plucky flax]

So I had to do it, and I did it well enough.

[jaunty tiger]

tho

[flint aspen]

fuck, I need to go ogryn and complete some contracts for melk

[buoyant maple]

And plasma has a 176% unyielding ADM already, right?

[long wharf]

"psyker standards" is a non-argument, because you have to take into account the other classes performances

point is, surge staff isn't bosskill

[plucky flax]

I don't control the other 3 random players on the internet I just bring the best out of my kit.

Like you know top the whole chart.

[buoyant maple]

Plasma does an okay job at it but it’s strong mainly for reliable anti-special and anti-elite

[rigid sky]

actually! what am I talking about

Gunker

[long wharf]

that's fine, just pointless to brag about doing the most boss damage with a surge staff when you yourself recognize that it's only because nobody else brought actual bosskill

[rigid sky]

is the psyker gold standard for boss kills lol

surge is shit compared to a high gaze, disrupted destiny ciag

[plucky flax]

It does good monster damage.

[long wharf]

good is fine

it's not great

it's not bosskill

[rigid sky]

but yeah gunker is hilariously awkward

[long wharf]

if we want surge to be bosskill, that's a different discussion

[plucky flax]

What's great on psyker? Only columbus or laspistol maybe.

[jaunty tiger]

yeah, but i wouldnt call it great boss kill when you could have just pulled out a knife/psword/rashad and do the same dmg more easily and without wasting ammo

[long wharf]

for bosses? yeah, gunker with columnus and SG

[buoyant maple]

Pretty much

[long wharf]

so, again, I'm not saying current surge doesn't do damage

[buoyant maple]

U could even achieve better results with a chainsword than plasma at boss dmg

[long wharf]

but it doesn't do anything that the psyker can't also do in better ways with other combat options

surge doesn't have a distinct niche any more

[rigid sky]

Melee is unsafe though

surge can be done without putting yourself at risk or struggling to coordinate to hit the head

because it doesn't hit the head lol

but yeah

[long wharf]

surge used to be quality CC with damage on the side

[jaunty tiger]

well iw as saying plasma

[rigid sky]

I find nailing the weakspots on bosses is really hard

[jaunty tiger]

bc plasma is not a very great boss gun

[plucky flax]

It's better than void at single target range damage for me.

[jaunty tiger]

and idk someone mention plasma vs boss

[long wharf]

now it's reasonable damage on single target, that's it

imagine if FartShack took the thunderhammer and made it have zero cleave

[plucky flax]

Great single target damage + ease of play.

[long wharf]

nah, that's the problem - the single target damage isn't great

it's decent

[plucky flax]

Making it very potent for high difficulty content under stress.

[long wharf]

ease of play is there, sure

[plucky flax]

It can 2 shots elites with no aim.

And it charges fast.

[long wharf]

I'd rather aim and one-shot them

[plucky flax]

Idk that's pretty fast ttk.

[long wharf]

it does charge fast, yes

that is the surge staff's only saving grace

if it didn't charge that fast, the damage wouldn't be enough to even consider using

that's the entire problem with the surge staff right now - it's on the knife edge of usability

it's not great at anything

[plucky flax]

Well I can't change your mind so.