psyker-class

[vast yew]

4.5 seconds

[long wharf]

regardless, if I need to kill something quickly that's not a poxwalker, I don't use my Illisi

[vast yew]

You can charge your sword and have well over 3 seconds to find something to smack

Slaughterer is very generous

[long wharf]

I like to pair surge staff or void staff with Illisi

[vast yew]

If he swaps Uncanny to Slaughterer and Unarmored to... something? that's a perfectly serviceable Illisi

[half iron]

i use illisi special just to feel cooler than a veteran

[vast yew]

Illisi special also stunlocks Elites if you spam special -> light

just like a power sword can

[proven stirrup]

^^^

That shit has saved my ass so much

[long wharf]

I'd rather kill elites

[proven stirrup]

Life doesn't always give you what you prefer

[long wharf]

use the force sword to give you distance, sure

[vast yew]

and how do you plan to kill an Elite given that you loaded into the mission with an Illisi

[calm lotus]

fuck off

[long wharf]

uh, with all the other kit I bring?

[vast yew]

you can't very well swap to a DS4 or Deimos mid-match

[long wharf]

Illisi isn't for specials/elites

surge staff

void staff

assail

[proven stirrup]

Hey now, that gun is at least usable

[vast yew]

it isn't, but if you're face to face with a mauler, backed into a corner it's good tech to know

[long wharf]

you bring tools that complement each other

[half iron]

the good tech is turning their internal organs into pompeii

[proven stirrup]

Or you bring what you have and suffer 😢

[vast yew]

I am not saying "Hey run an Illisi so you can stun-lock elites"

[long wharf]

well sure, but then the trick is to build what you're missing

[vast yew]

I am saying you CAN stun-lock elites with an Illisi

[long wharf]

unless you get super lucky with Sour Milk

[vast yew]

and that's useful to know

[long wharf]

sure

and I'm not suggesting you're wrong

[proven stirrup]

I don't even play enough to keep my stores of melKoin up anymore

[long wharf]

what I'm saying is that that's a last stand sort of action

[vast yew]

indeed

no arguments there

[proven stirrup]

I've completely uninstalled for a time off the back of that instant DH team wipe on heresy a couple nights back

[long wharf]

rage uninstall?

tsk tsk

have more faith in the emperor, sibling

[vast yew]

Heresy
that's your problem

[proven stirrup]

I can't even effectively material farm when I have to contend with clownshoes=ass parties like that

[vast yew]

Tiers 3 and 4 are awful

[proven stirrup]

No, no it's not.

Damnation has been no fuckin better to me

[half iron]

become epic like me

[vast yew]

join us in Auric Damnation where teammates have braincells

[long wharf]

and yeah, Heresy is still wonky with spawns

[proven stirrup]

I get just as many circus acts up there

It's a fuckin' crapshoot

[half iron]

that is slightly debatable but i do agree there

[long wharf]

heresy pubs are filled with people thinking that because they have access to it, they're ready for it

[half iron]

some veterans know what melee is in aurics
some

[long wharf]

I never run pub heresy unless I'm confident in my ability to carry hard

[half iron]

and the sweet brutes always come extra sweet

[vast yew]

Vets who've bothered to look at a shovel or power sword for more than 3 seconds are prone to realizing that they actually have some great melee options

[half iron]

shovel is peak as fuck

[proven stirrup]

I'm not going to entertain this silly point about damnation having better players because while you're very right about that, it's not anywhere near as consistent as anyone claims.

[long wharf]

pub damnations are, on average, vastly better than pub heresy

[primal tusk]

i still dont trust myself to run anything above uprising

[proven stirrup]

I get nothing out of failing there that I can't get out of just playing on malice and not failing

[vast yew]

I tried to do PUG heresy to finish my last "complete a mission without anyone dying" contract

[half iron]

i main low int sedition

[long wharf]

so do the smart thing - join groups here in discord

[vast yew]

failed 3 times in a row, went to Auric, first try

[long wharf]

so you have company and comms

[hot zephyr]

Yeah I made the mistake of queueing for pub heresy, it's awful.... Auric Heresy at least you won't get level 15 teammates

[long wharf]

which leads to teamwork

and far fewer asshats

fewer, not none

[plucky flax]

Sameeee

[vast yew]

ironically, when you're level 15 you're usually better off queueing for Heresy instead of Malice

Malice is... bad

[proven stirrup]

Eh, I'll just not play before I get on voice with randos

[primal tusk]

btw, is running ahead viable when your team low hp and you can frontline take out most threats?

[proven stirrup]

Regardless of that, the problem is just the need for mats and the economy feeling like birdshit

[vast yew]

depends heavily by how far "ahead" you are

if they're a full room behind you then you should probably wait a bit

[primal tusk]

generally stopping before drop off points close enough so i can run back to save

[long wharf]

gonna hard disagree with you here

[vast yew]

if you get too far ahead the director will notice and drop specialists on you

[long wharf]

it's much easier to push through a bad run on malice than heresy

[vast yew]

source: currently leveling my Vet. Heresy is so much easier than Malice was

[primal tusk]

i am good at dealing with disabler specialists shooting hounds midair, and sidedodging trapper nets

[long wharf]

the director still spawns stupidly on heresy for some reason

[half iron]

i usually jump around and spam weapon swap while waiting for frens if i’m too far ahead

[primal tusk]

and when not confident in the shooting midair, block shove

[long wharf]

sounds like you can afford to slow down and stick with the team more

the separation between teammates is a metric the director uses to determine when and where to spawn stuff

[half iron]

i need to find plasteel.

[proven stirrup]

This just highlights why shit's generally fucked unless the stars align

[half iron]

plasteel is worth even if it leads to a wipe

[long wharf]

teammates being off on their own is a trigger for specials

[primal tusk]

as long as those specials target me, im fine

[long wharf]

not if wiping the run results in you getting far less than you would have finishing the run

[half iron]

hehe

[proven stirrup]

Tell that to fatshark and their need to put all the mats in the far corners of the galaxy

[hot zephyr]

I like bubble shield for a lot of reasons, but pubbies will generally stay nearby to stand in it so it helps prevent solo-parkour-challenge pubbies

[long wharf]

frankly, I wish mats wouldn't spawn at all in the mission

just give it to us as mission rewards

[proven stirrup]

That'd be boring

[long wharf]

no, it'd be helping encourage people to stay in coherency

[proven stirrup]

The way we get mat's isn't the problem, it's the cost balance

Tempting people OUT of coherency is part of the gameplay intrigue

[primal tusk]

i swapped from shriek to shield just now cause i use revolver and force sword, and got EP for brainburst

[ionic frost]

You'd get to every mission finale with zero medkits cus noone would check any boxes.

[long wharf]

it is a problem, just not as big of one as the cost issue

[long wharf]

boxes would still be there and empty as usual

[proven stirrup]

Well neither of us has any say in the matter so I'll disagree safely

[long wharf]

you wouldn't be missing out on anything

[ionic frost]

play damnation, boxes aren't empty

[long wharf]

I also wish there wouldn't be empty boxes

just remove the boxes if they're empty

[primal tusk]

the boxes are filled with heretics

[ionic frost]

but then you can't stand on them =P

[long wharf]

too true

special hidden prize of heresy in each box

[plucky flax]

Helpin some random guys in lfg channel doing hm and man this guy's french accent is so thicc

[vocal sundial]

i want boxes that when you open them up have bomber grenades in them

[plucky flax]

Oh hai asyn.

[vocal sundial]

hiii

[long wharf]

that'd be funny

[half iron]

mimic genestealer chests

[long wharf]

bomber traps

[primal tusk]

4 ragers in a small box

[vast yew]

Tzeentch twins Maelstrom when

[half iron]

you open an empty box but it’s not empty. crusher overhead.

[hot zephyr]

Should give crusher's underhand swings that punt you like a barrel blast

[long wharf]

mini beast of nurgle pops out of one of those long crates

[primal tusk]

twin's gas inside, flooding the entire level

[half iron]

mf got the nurgling log

[long wharf]

oh, a mission modifier where the level behind you is filling with poisonous gas

and you have to move fast to out-pace it

[vast yew]

No wait that’s how they introduce Genestealer cults.
You open a box and a Genestealer jumps out.

No patch notes or anything

[long wharf]

face huggers

face huggers in every box

[bleak tulip]

😫

[cobalt atlas]

Still waiting for GeneStealer

[plucky flax]

Oh boy he's explaining the twins mechanics.

[bleak tulip]

why are people so intent on genestealers

[plucky flax]

I can feel this will be rough.

[bleak tulip]

of all the possible second kinds of enemies, you want nids?

[vast yew]

Alternatively: you open a box. Your pants are gone. Damn Jean Stealers at it again.

[bleak tulip]

the least interesting race in the fiction

[primal tusk]

i am expecting 8 different youtubers to do new genestealer videos about this within the hour

[vast yew]

GSC is like 90% guardsmen

[bleak tulip]

yeah but the end game is nids

[vast yew]

Some funky hybrids and maybe a few actually nids

[long wharf]

eh, I don't know about that, there's plenty of room for interesting variations of tyranids

thing with GSC is that it's easy to weave into an existing story framework

[vast yew]

The only nids you really get are Genestealers; everything else is human or hybrid.

[long wharf]

plenty of room for half-turned enemies, betrayals, spies, etc

[vast yew]

Plus they are present in literally EVERY hive world

[bleak tulip]

I dunno I think that would take away from the story tbh

[plucky flax]

My twins killer sword.

[bleak tulip]

like what a fuckin coincidence

[vast yew]

So having a cult cause problems while another cult is causing problems is pretty much their MO

It’s not a coincidence when every single hive world has GSC problems

[bleak tulip]

ngl I cannot overstate how much I hate that idea

[primal tusk]

i want a mission modifier where like 5% chance for random WAAAAGH, changing the mission objective midgame

[vast yew]

Orks would be fun but they’d new missions not on Tertium to make sense

Like a space hulk or something

[primal tusk]

eh, i can see it. like putting those random idle guards to use suddenly running alongside you as NPC's

holding back mass ork horde

[vast yew]

Orks don’t really just kinda sneak into a hive city

[bleak tulip]

rok

[long wharf]

sounds like Voidstrike Enjoyer is just sick of GSCs

[vast yew]

There would have to be some new missions with an ork invasion or something

[primal tusk]

not sneak, like, 5% chance of invasion like BAKOOM giant explosion sound, ground rumble, and then orks everywhere

[hearty oak]

don't even need shred on it on a gunker

[bleak tulip]

rok special event

[vast yew]

Rocs are giant birds

[bleak tulip]

rok not roc

[primal tusk]

goal suddenly becomes survive and escape

[vast yew]

Oh duh the asteroid things

I hate that name btw lmao

[azure bridge]

rocs fly majestically through the air, thrown from ogryn arm to slay whatever the hell was unfortunate enough to be annoying to the big guy that day

[vast yew]

Space Hulk would be an easy cop-out for throwing any enemy they wanted in though

[bleak tulip]

no I just really fucking hate nids

[vast yew]

Could be this version of chaos wastes

[long wharf]

did they touch you in a naughty place when you were younger?

[primal tusk]

good idea? idk sounds fun eitherway

[vast yew]

Good news there’s only 1 nid in GSC

[long wharf]

show the court on this doll where the nids touched you.

[bleak tulip]

that joke has never been funny

[cobalt atlas]

Point at my head
My hairline

[long wharf]

receding hairline? if only I could blame nids

[hot zephyr]

If anything the Nids probably have a cure for the baldness gene somewhere in their DNA

[idle bay]

Just shave or buzz cut you head clean 🙂

[primal tusk]

thats genestealers! they stole your hair gene!

thats how that works right? idfk

[vast yew]

The only odd bit of GSC is they would be fighting the Nurgle cult alongside the imperium.

So 3 way fights

[long wharf]

you misheard - they steal "hairy jeans"

[cobalt atlas]

I dont fuckin know, every gene stealer depicted is BALD AF

[vast yew]

They got that funky ridge instead of hair

[bleak tulip]

thats why theyre stealing the genes

[azure bridge]

... i'm bald af...

[bleak tulip]

naturally

they want hair

your hair

[cobalt atlas]

Now you know why

[hot zephyr]

We found the 1st generation hybrid guys. Nice job!

[azure bridge]

welp, looks like i accidentally'd a chaos

[vast yew]

No no you fight chaos

[azure bridge]

not for long

[vast yew]

In the name of the four armed emperor

[untold niche]

8 yellows
2 blues (deflector 3)
and still no deflector 4 :(

[vast yew]

Btw don’t tell the commissar the emperor has 4 arms he gives you a funny look

[primal tusk]

also "the planet fell before the guard did" sounds like a slogan coined when some batallion intentionally blew up a planet to make that be true

[cobalt atlas]

Do you notice that Horus hair fuckin gone after turning chaos

That's right, he got nids

baldrus

[ionic needle]

Holy shit Horus was a genestealer

[bleak tulip]

just run 3, 4 isnt that big of an improvement

dont really need it

[primal tusk]

Horus betrayed the cult of Hairdom, thus started the Horus Heresy some deep lore here i am learning bout

[hot zephyr]

Does deflector 4 even do anything other than like a TINY bit of ranged only block cost reduction?

[bleak tulip]

dont think so

[azure bridge]

horus hairisy?

[long wharf]

it's not ranged only

[plucky flax]

First try went as expected. Xd

[summer prairie]

sure is

[long wharf]

it's block cost reduction, period

[bleak tulip]

been told it is ranged only

tooltips just lie, once again

[long wharf]

it wasn't the last time I looked at the code

[hot zephyr]

Yeah I don't have evidence either way, it's hard to test that

[summer prairie]

always been like that, just with different numbers

[long wharf]

oof, well there you go

I was wrong

[hot zephyr]

Yeah, so it's a pretty tiny effect, even deflector 1 technically ok

[vast yew]

Deflector is like Brutal Momentum; 1 is what you need, anything higher is just candy

[untold niche]

wait i thought deflector block cost reduc also applied to melee?

[ionic needle]

The block cost reduction is just flavor if you're also running KD, which you should

[plucky flax]

But muh 15% weakspot damage.

[hot zephyr]

See the code above man, @summer prairie just showed it's ranged only apparently

[untold niche]

ye i am :v

[primal tusk]

isnt Horus a character in a Dr Seuss book?

[azure bridge]

... cmon fat shark, tooltips mah dudes

[vast yew]

It’s only a 7.5% difference between 1 and 4

[plucky flax]

That's like 20 different breakpoints.

[untold niche]

wait then should i even get deflector if its only for ranged

[plucky flax]

:hjere

[untold niche]

:v

[plucky flax]

[shy prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/davy-jones-davy-jones-pirates-of-the-caribbean-reverse-happy-suprise-suprise-gif-26096850

[long wharf]

what the shit

[shy prairie]

its true

[vast yew]

Deflector is for blocking gunners while you dodge away

[bleak tulip]

I mean thats the point of it

[shy prairie]

dodge forwards*

[vast yew]

I still run it because that’s useful

[shy prairie]

retreating from the enemy is heresy

[primal tusk]

dodge upwards establish dominance

[untold niche]

im a stupid person so i always tank gunner shots and shoot them back :v

[vast yew]

So is wasting the Emperor’s currency

[hot zephyr]

Deflector is greedy psyker's bubble shield. 1 Passenger only 😛

[untold niche]

how should i deal with gunners?

i always thought i just voidstrike them back

[primal tusk]

quickdraw duel them

[bleak tulip]

you can

[untold niche]

but if thats what im supposed to do, what is deflector for :v

[bleak tulip]

dodge and shoot so you dont get blasted

[vast yew]

You should, but sometimes there a LOT of gunners.

[bleak tulip]

or just kill em faster

[long wharf]

you might need to look up the definition of "greedy"

[hot zephyr]

If you run voidstrike, you press F and put your ranged shield up and THEN blast them back

[long wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/princess-bride-you-keep-using-that-word-i-do-not-think-it-means-what-you-think-it-means-gif-9201569

[vast yew]

Deflector isn’t your first option but it adds an option

[untold niche]

thats when i run up to them with deflector and become paper zealot?

[vast yew]

I mostly use it on Surge staff

[hot zephyr]

👏 Well done sir

[vast yew]

To GTFO when I turn a corner into 5 of them

[primal tusk]

time to do my first uprising with my level 19 psyker

[long wharf]

there's nearly zero difference between sedition and uprising difficulties

at 19, you should be running malice

[cobalt atlas]

I hate lower difficulty

it teach you wrongly on how to play the game

4/5 difficulty play so much different than 3

[untold niche]

i find 4 harder than 5 due to teammates :v

[bleak tulip]

just run heresy at like 10 till 30

thats what I ddid

worked out fine

[obtuse moth]

4 doesn't really teach you how to play 5

[vast yew]

at 19 you're good for Heresy assuming your basics are good

[vast yew]

HISTG 4 does though

[obtuse moth]

the playerbase is so different

[untold niche]

level 20 on 4 as non assail psyker was really, really painful

[long wharf]

assail does a lot of carrying up to heresy

[vast yew]

non assail psyker
well, there's your problem
Assail is OP before Damnation

[untold niche]

psyker for me had the most painful leveling out of ogryn and zealot

[long wharf]

and unfortunately, it hinders learning important survival mechanics

[untold niche]

but assail is gay, and it makes no fun for your teammate

[long wharf]

and strategies

[obtuse moth]

psyker is the easiest to level without good gear

[vast yew]

it's difficulty 2, there's no fun anyways

[long wharf]

oh boy, it didn't used to be

[vast yew]

"Oh boy, A horde spawned! Time to kill all... 10 poxwalkers?"

[untold niche]

what about 3 and 4 :v

[obtuse moth]

it did, i leveled my second psyker with brain burst crutch

[vast yew]

3 is hell

[untold niche]

i found ogryn and zealot easier :v

[vast yew]

I recommend skipping Malice as fast as possible

[obtuse moth]

depends on your skill level

[untold niche]

psyker was just, painful.

no assail especially.

[obtuse moth]

pskyer has higher skill requirements but lower gear requirements

[untold niche]

not really , icouldn't do shit my with level X voidstrike staff

[vast yew]

Psyker can buy a ~370 Surge staff, slam it to orange, and perform decently on Damnation

[violet oak]

[vast yew]

bro Staves are terrible below level 30

[untold niche]

took forever to charge, and the damage might as well be a pea shooter

[primal tusk]

already got zealot and vet to 30

[summer prairie]

all purg staves are pretty much the same

[vast yew]

if anyone wants to experience true suffering, use a character slot to start a new Psyker.
Get to level 4, buy a trauma staff, then test it out in the Pyskanium

[summer prairie]

maybe if you have 40 cloud it's bad

[bleak tulip]

all I remember is that I didnt like trauma when I got it at, what, level 12 or some shit

but void was fun

because you get it sorta late

[vast yew]

Trauma is so, so bad without stats

[bleak tulip]

purg is consistently doing things

[vast yew]

Charge rate 0: 2.5 second charge time
Charge rate 80: 1.3 second charge time

[untold niche]

i immediately switched to void when i unlocked it and it was painful as fuck
i just pressed on because i wanted to get used to edging it

[bleak tulip]

I remember shotgun psyker

[obtuse moth]

when you're levelling, without good blessings your weaps dont do much damage on all classes, but pskyer has non weapon damage options for hard targets that don't require gear and aren't exhaustible

[vast yew]

that was beta right

[bleak tulip]

ye

[vast yew]

Never understood why they took Shotguns away

Shotgun/Assail would be fun

[obtuse moth]

when leveling its not really about killing everything, its mostly about good gamesense and target priority in the context of working in a team, but having the option to kill something if you need to

[untold niche]

ogryn and zealot isn't that dependent on blessings imo
at least on certain weapons

[obtuse moth]

thats how lowbies do better than level 30s

[bleak tulip]

they also took away the blue outfit you got in beta for like two months or so until they added commissary

[vast yew]

Also Flechette/Crit Kantrael Shotgun with Perilous Combustion would be able to apply all 3 dots at once

[untold niche]

the only blessing i know of zealot that is required is prob brutal mommentum

[vast yew]

Thunder Hammer without Thrust be like:

[obtuse moth]

gear is still level scaled

[vast yew]

it is but some staves live and die based on blessings

namely Trauma, but also slightly Void

[bleak tulip]

I remember old UI

[vast yew]

Surge and Purg care less, at least while leveling, though IMO Revolver is best

[untold niche]

i find that psyker, at least staves. are basically useless until you hit a certain threshold
not so much for zealot/ogryn stuffs

[obtuse moth]

im saying its extremely unlikely any level 100 or 200 weapon is going to perform that well in damage, no matter how well it rolls

comparatively anyway

[untold niche]

revolvo actually best levelling item pre nerf

[bleak tulip]

you can kinda get sorta high rolls on like two things which for some weapon can make em feel okay

still gonna have shit blessings tho

[obtuse moth]

maybe for your first character

[bleak tulip]

when did they add blessings being cross character

because they didnt used to

[obtuse moth]

once you get one character going, unless youve gone ogryn you can throw slaughterer/fire frenzy etc on

[vast yew]

Patch.... 4?

[bleak tulip]

[vast yew]

yeah patch 4, november last year

[bleak tulip]

that sure wuolda been nice to have when I started

[untold niche]

you mean like, based on rips from the previous character?
Na i didn't use this at all

went ogryn -> zealot -> psyker

[obtuse moth]

was replying to

]Voidstrike Enjoyer: still gonna have shit blessings tho

[untold niche]

you old man

starting last year

[bleak tulip]

hey at least I had it when I finished leveling oggy and vet I guess

never did like vet

not that I had a lot unlocked for vet

[obtuse moth]

looks like game came out nov 30, and patch 4 which added the feature came out dec 19

[bleak tulip]

an nothing for ogryn, obv

[vast yew]

Vet is "get a Revolver and a Shovel"

that's it, you're done

source: currently leveling vet

[untold niche]

i had some minor burnout 1-2 week back
and uh getting slightly boring :v

At how many hours do you guys just you know play sometimes only, just to play

[vast yew]

going to swap to Power Sword Mk6 and Plasma here in a few levels, finally

[untold niche]

im pretty sure the regulars here have at least 1k hours tho

:v

[bleak tulip]

yeah I was done leveling my second char mid december I think

[vast yew]

then I get to experience the Surge Blessing grind all over again by grinding for Power Cycler 4

[obtuse moth]

feel like power sword isnt that great without power cycler

[bleak tulip]

and I just mostly played those

[untold niche]

took me around 12 golds to get surge iirc

[vast yew]

the more characters you have the more pressure you feel to finish contracts every week

[rotund fable]

I only got the game in mid November, so...

[untold niche]

my next goal is to get a good trauma staff

[untold niche]

cant be bothered to maximize contracts ngl
mr milk never gave me anything good anyway

[bleak tulip]

I didnt play for like 8 months

got bored of the game in feb last year I think

[primal tusk]

i got a bad build, but i like playing with it

[untold niche]

how many hours of this is after p13?

[vast yew]

Milkman gave me a good Flamer on my Zealot last week

[bleak tulip]

uhh like 400 or so I think

[vast yew]

first thing he's given me that I didn't immediately sacrifice for a blessing

[untold niche]

whjatever goes, i saw a zealot asking for advice for a stealth knife build.

[obtuse moth]

melk is good for t4 blessings, saves on plasteel

[untold niche]

i never saw any t4 bvlessings i want, and never saw any curios i want either

havent seen a +3 stam curio

[untold niche]

goddam

[vast yew]

this beauty: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1185638715058565200/image.png?ex=65905719&is=657de219&hm=c414f448c386fa9edf4ec3c57158501cdb90427c6888622123619c4613bea268&

[untold niche]

i have never bought anything off melk
I thing one curio, but thats because i was too lazy to wait for curio refresh

[vast yew]

delivered straight from the Milkman

[primal tusk]

sec, il show you what i got cooked up thus far

[long wharf]

I got my god-rolled plasma gun from Sour Milk

also a god-rolled power sword that I no longer use

[untold niche]

all i see from melk is stuff i DON'T use

[vast yew]

if it's a godroll buy it anyways, you might someday

[untold niche]

i see like 6 axes

goddam

what the fuck man

[vast yew]

unless it's a taxe, those... those you can sorta leave alone

Caxe slaps though

[untold niche]

i don't even like using caxes
it does feel good but the cleave is shit
I understand theres brumom but uh, eh.

[obtuse moth]

melk is decent if you use the armory extension/have multiple toons

[primal tusk]

and then bio lodestone into charged up @untold niche

[vast yew]

that is the point of BM, yes

[bleak tulip]

dont remind me of the caxe push block meta

dark times

[obtuse moth]

you can have 8 if you use the extra loadouts mod

[vast yew]

goes from 0 cleave to killing 4 poxwalkers per swing

[untold niche]

what is armory extension

[untold niche]

its chanced based right

[long wharf]

nonsense, those were great times

I was a caxeing fool

[obtuse moth]

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/armoury-exchange/hcjihmkcnjkfkaeebhnpjcnnibpoolgc

[vast yew]

nah BM is on headshots

it's 100% of the time on weak spot hit

[primal tusk]

kinetic flayer bad but fun

[obtuse moth]

its an addon that lets you check the stores and automatically filter

[vast yew]

and diagonal slashes aren't really that diagonal

[bleak tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-gif-22341545

[obtuse moth]

so i only see things that are useful

[vast yew]

they're more horizontal than you'd think

[untold niche]

why take brain burest on gun psyker, i mean you have revolvo

[obtuse moth]

makes it super easy to scan, theres a firefox version too

it was invaluable before there was brunt's armory when you had to rely on rng to even spawn a base weapon of the type you needed

[primal tusk]

for the occasional funny "pop" when spamming sword if anything i play more like a zealot

[untold niche]

i mean, i would take smite :v

1 free node

[primal tusk]

and brain burst is my long range option for taking out gunners at extreme range

[vast yew]

or Assail

[untold niche]

revolvo have no drop off

[vast yew]

treat Assail like your ranged weapon, Revolver like a Krak grenade Blitz but better

[untold niche]

what are you on about

[vast yew]

he's new

[untold niche]

revolvo is like

uh

[primal tusk]

fanning revolver's not that accurate, if i'd pick the other one sure

[untold niche]

the 50 cal sniper from call of duty

ah i see, i haven't tried fanning

[long wharf]

wherever the psyker uses a revolver, a good void staff is better

[primal tusk]

i'd pick that staff when i get 30

still at 19

[untold niche]

i legitimately prefer volvo :v
can 1 tap gunners even without crits

[obtuse moth]

revolver ttk is way lower

[untold niche]

is just, i want to feel like magician

so staff for me

[vast yew]

there's some legit uses for the Revolver on an Assail build, since it's faster to whip out and snipe something problematic

[primal tusk]

fanning revolver's my panic button

[untold niche]

if you play like zealot, get venting shriek isntead of bobble

[obtuse moth]

revolver ttk is one of the best weapons for taking out specials and ranged elites, and it still does really well on carapace for some silly reason

[vast yew]

Fan Revolver is a wee bit different; does a lot of crazy stuff with Scrier's, though less consistent than a Columnus build

[untold niche]

once i was given a volvo when i was levelling zealot,
i realized god gave me small thumbs for a reason.

[obtuse moth]

oh i should try fan revolver with scriers that sounds fun

[primal tusk]

i had that for a while, but the peril quell is kinda unnecessary now

[untold niche]

nah not even about peril quell
soul blaze has good horde clear and damage

[primal tusk]

could probs use for the staggering aspect

[obtuse moth]

shriek lets you play a lot more aggressive

[untold niche]

good panic button

you run up to the five gunners then you fus ro dah

[primal tusk]

'd need to get two more points to drop there, and probably get wildfire no?

[obtuse moth]

you dont need wildfire

[untold niche]

no need for wild fire

usually most people don't take wilfire, generally.

[vast yew]

The bigger deal with Shriek is the upgrade "Creeping Flames," which can add up to 6 stacks of soulblaze.
6 stacks of soulblaze kills everything smaller than a Bruiser on Damnation, including shooters (not gunners)

[untold niche]

:v

[vast yew]

Wildfire kinda bad

[untold niche]

quick question

[primal tusk]

i saw some nutty stuff on youtube where mass range wildfire proc

[long wharf]

yeah, wildfire needs to be better

[vast yew]

quick answer

[fluid forge]

which one is wildfire again?

[untold niche]

did they turn down the director ? a5hsitg feels way easier than the patch where they made director go harder

[untold niche]

fook u

:v

[obtuse moth]

wildfire is still good in specific situations, creeping smite, blazing trauma, and in fire reborn procs. its terrible in general

[bleak tulip]

the bad one

[fluid forge]

oh that can actually be good yeah

[long wharf]

wildfire is the one that spreads soulblaze stacks off the dying enemy to nearby enemies

it's actually not that good

[untold niche]

peeeepol

[long wharf]

it distributes up to 4 stacks of soulblaze

[fluid forge]

here hold up lemme show ya how silly perilous combustion+wildfire+rending can get

[vast yew]

Wildfire 90% of the time will spread 1 stack to stuff, which deals almost no damage and is only really useful for proc'ing In Fire Reborn

[untold niche]

wat is infire reborn

[long wharf]

and enemies can't have more than 4 stacks of soulblaze from wildfire

[fluid forge]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/1GAgL5pRVmvw38/XTRhshTW888b?invite=cr-MSxYZEosMjA3NTgzNjU1LA get silly

[vast yew]

Warp Siphon upgrade

[long wharf]

it's far less effective than you think

[untold niche]

SOMEONE ANSWER PLOSSSS

[obtuse moth]

in fire reborn gives you warp siphon stacks from targets that die with soulblaze on them

[fluid forge]

actually this probably isn't wildfire at all, I forget my build a bit, anyway just run perilous if in doubt

[long wharf]

that's showcasing perilous combustion, not wildfire

[untold niche]

I don't think that is even worth taking wildfire for :v

[fluid forge]

yea perilous mb

[long wharf]

wildfire really isn't worth taking

[vast yew]

that's PC lol

[long wharf]

now, PC is great

[fluid forge]

PC do be great

[obtuse moth]

for builds rely heavily on cooldown spam it definitely is worth the 2.5x conversion efficiency over the other talent

[primal tusk]

seems good ngl

[fluid forge]

there's so many fuckin' nodes and talent names in this game I legit always forget what is what

[long wharf]

especially when you get groups of elites and kill them all quickly

[vast yew]

the only build that I don't run PC on is my Voidstrike, because I can't find a point for it really

[bleak tulip]

yeah that was all perilous, void being stupid and ds4 being stupid

[long wharf]

takes two points to get PC

[vast yew]

1, I already have Quietude

[fluid forge]

perilous and uncanny strike, mostly

[primal tusk]

although not really applicable to me since i only play sedition or uprising, and rarely anything that threatening there

[vast yew]

I'm considering giving up Perfect Timing for it though

since PC seems like it might be better than 15% warp damage

[bleak tulip]

why not both

[vast yew]

because I ran out of points between WS and True Aim

[fluid forge]

I don't think I've ever really hit many breakpoints of the warp damage one, but I'm sure someone has ran numbers at some point

[bleak tulip]

take less WS

[vast yew]

and I'm not giving up Warp Rider

no

[bleak tulip]

krill issue

perfect timing is better than 2 more WC

[untold niche]

i remember testing WS tree and DD tree and even with full WS tree i found DD to be better breakpoints wise

[vast yew]

If anything I'd give up PT, because while 15% is more than 8% for damage, 2 more WS also gives 12 peril cost reduction and 15% CDR

[proven beacon]

Bruh what is this bs

[fluid forge]

DD is great yeah

[vast yew]

yeah Imma leave you there and pick you up when it respawns you

best of luck pal

[primal tusk]

i'd risk it, then again i have 0 game sense

[fluid forge]

it'd be safe

as long as you don't get any closer than his spawn is

you'll be fiiiine

sketchy af tho

[vast yew]

Just get a Stealthammer Zealot to one-shot the DH

easy

[untold niche]

actually, now that i use half charge mainly
i might switch to WS :v

even at full DD, need to full cahrge to 1 tap gunner
ragers still need 2 shots

i think crushers can be 1 tapped with surge + full DD?
if no, then im assuming WS will have same breakpoints.

Not sure if any of those changes if you only have 4 WS stacks instead of 6.

[obtuse moth]

if they leave you you'll snap to the next rescue point, if it doesn't happen just alt+f4 and rejoin

[fluid forge]

hmm possibly

[vast yew]

Crushers can be 1-tapped with Surge and full WS too

[primal tusk]

i remember thinking i was "fine" once cause i am good at dancing around a daemonhost...... the team abandoned me whilst i was kiting the heck out of it

[fluid forge]

DD is just super convenient

for how good it is

[vast yew]

Not much survives Surge procs

[untold niche]

what about 4 WS?
(means you don't take the last node)

because the last node is freaking expensive, +2 dude.

[proven beacon]

Back into the fight for me then, they've finally reached my new spawn

[fluid forge]

WS I wish would get some tweaks to not be so clunky feeling with how the nodes are laid out

[vast yew]

it's a thought, but it's 8% damage, 15% cooldown, 12% peril gen, and increased warp charge generation consistency

I'd rather just give up the 15% warp damage instead

[obtuse moth]

if your constantly shrieking you might not be getting those last 2 charges often

[vast yew]

I don't have shriek (currently)

[bleak tulip]

the last WC is kinda bad yeah

[primal tusk]

gon try a run with the burny shriek

[bleak tulip]

8% damage, pretty conditional, deep in the tree

[vast yew]

remember: 85+ peril, then shriek

[untold niche]

lets say you give up PT
then what else do you give up?
i need 2 points.

[primal tusk]

[vast yew]

would have to see the tree

[untold niche]

isn't it 83.3

[ionic needle]

Did anyone try the other damage node on shriek? Is it just straight up worse than soulblaze?

[vast yew]

idk

[untold niche]

pretty standard.

[vast yew]

it's a lot worse

[untold niche]

i remember arco said it was 83.3

[bleak tulip]

there

your answer

[vast yew]

Empathic, IMO

[untold niche]

isn't that good? ;v

[bleak tulip]

I mean its not bad

[long wharf]

I just don't go DD ever

[vast yew]

it's not bad but you shoot less than once a second so

[bleak tulip]

but youre not a purg build

[ionic needle]

I guess because soulblaze damage ramps up better with buffs and synergizes better with our kit?

[vast yew]

Purg and Columnus can abuse that node way harder

[bleak tulip]

I dont run it ever on void

pointless

imo

[vast yew]

Soulblaze damage, along with Bleed and Fire, deals damage on a Sigmoid curve

aka: more stacks, more damage per stack

[bleak tulip]

you do crit fairly often but not often enough to make it matter

[vast yew]

6 stacks of soulblaze is ~37 damage per tick, for 11 ticks

[untold niche]

for infire do you ahve to kill the guy yourtself?

[vast yew]

if you proc PC for 3 stacks, then shriek to get to 9, that's about 100 damage per tick

[ionic needle]

So like... more than double the damage?

[untold niche]

athubmbubm says the damage scales differently at different thresholds

[untold niche]

or the guy just has to die

[vast yew]

it does, but it doesn't start tapering off until like... 12 stacks or so

and then really slows down around 15-16

[ionic needle]

Too bad, it would be fun if it could be used to explode a pack of shotgunners/gunners if you stacked some other damage increases to it

[vast yew]

rule of thumb is that is deals ~stacks squared damage, up to ~14

not completely accurate but good enough for napkin math

so goes from ~9 damage at 3 stacks, to ~36 at 6 stacks, to ~81 at 9

ramps up real fast

and soulblaze has a 100% damage modifier vs. Flak

so Maulers, Ragers, and Gunners burn

[ionic needle]

Wasn't that multiplier a lot higher for like a single patch some time ago?

[untold niche]

oh yeah, i have CDR on my curios
so this build might actually be good idk :v

will try tmr

[vast yew]

it used to be 200% and was utterly nuts

[ionic needle]

Haha yeah I remember that, ran ascending blaze with my shredder

[untold niche]

you know what im going to try now in psk

[bleak tulip]

trade WC for perfect timing

better value

[untold niche]

whats wc

[bleak tulip]

more consistent

the last node in warp charge

[vast yew]

that's almost exactly my build except I take the other option for the first Warp Siphon upgrade (Peril Reduction instead of slow toughness regen), take Quietude instead of Soulstealer, and take Dome instead of shriek

[bleak tulip]

conditional 8% damage is pretty weak

[untold niche]

hmm, but with 2 extra charge i can spam vent more often

[vast yew]

it's also 12% peril generation, don't forget

[untold niche]

peril gen doesn't matter imo
going to edge by ticks anyway

[vast yew]

(if you take the peril gen node)

[bleak tulip]

not worth

[hot zephyr]

Is this also why +%flak is "not needed" but redonkulous if you have it on a purgatus?

[bleak tulip]

its already so spammable

[vast yew]

+Flak is recommended on Purg because a ton of enemies count as flak

[bleak tulip]

also what good does it to spam it every 15 seconds when you cant even get your charges back that fast at times

you just lose damage

[vast yew]

Maulers, Scab captains, Scab Bruisers, scab shooters, gunners...

[untold niche]

but with in fire reborn ,cant get 6 charge within 15 seconds?

[bleak tulip]

meanwhile perfect timing is always up in fights

[vast yew]

I mean on Voidstrike in the right situation you can get all 6 charges back in a single cast

[bleak tulip]

you can, depending on the situation

but not always

sure if the shotgun parade spawns

you get like 10 elite kills

then what

[untold niche]

i think my CD for vent after curios and auras and whatever is 23 seconds
idk how much more it goes down with4 stacks

[untold niche]

but have to factor in infire reborn :v

[hot zephyr]

Dog packs are hilarious for this too

[bleak tulip]

yeah

[untold niche]

10% not alot but with big zombie horde surely you would get some stacks

[bleak tulip]

still, perfect timing is always up

it doesnt go away as long as you keep casting

[vast yew]

it'll knock it down by 30% or 45% of the base, so either 9 seconds or 13.5

[bleak tulip]

and its more damage

[vast yew]

With 6 charges it's 10.5 second cooldown; with 4 it's 14 seconds

it's a bigger discussion if you use Shriek; with Dome you pretty much sit at 6 stacks permanently

because you're not casting Dome every fight

[bleak tulip]

I mean by all means, go try it out and record it, see how much you stay at 6 charges if you press vent off cooldown

I tried it, its not really worth it on average

imo

[vast yew]

I mean you don't really want to always be pressing Vent off cooldown either

[bleak tulip]

yeah no shit

but even if you dont

you still are not at 6 permanently

and if the main reason you get that talewnt is the CDR

[clear heath]

I wouldn't give up perfect timing for it if that's what this is about

[bleak tulip]

you care about using vent a lot

yes

perfect timing is always up, and more damage

[vast yew]

started as a discussion of PT vs. PC, morphed into the current discussion

[bleak tulip]

you will crit every 10 seconds

as long as you press buttons

you dont even have to fuckin hit anything

you can ltierally swing your sword at the air

still counts

[vast yew]

which is a bit weird

[untold niche]

16 on 4 stack yeah
12 seconds on 6 stacks

[bleak tulip]

crits are calculated on attack

so yeah

[vast yew]

yeah but mettle doesn't trigger

IIRC it's the only crit talent that triggers on whiff

[bleak tulip]

dont recall I thought there might be some blessing that also does but I dont remember

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[untold niche]

this increases soul blaze damage/

[bleak tulip]

point is that just playing normally, hitting enemies, you always have perfect timing with nexus void

yes

[vast yew]

it increases everything, yes

[untold niche]

lets say i proc PC
will taht increase

idk, is DD better or running WS better :v

[vast yew]

I think the other bit about the 6 warp charges is mutie DS4 breakpoints

don't want to worry about them as much

[bleak tulip]

I run DD because its more fun, more weakspot damage and cheaper

and I have to go down that side anyway

[vast yew]

DD is great but I don't like the minigame

[bleak tulip]

you could technically skip left side stuff if you really wanted to with DD

I wouldnt recommend it but you can

[primal tusk]

creeping flames venting shriek probs better once i get into staffs at a decent statpool

[bleak tulip]

well in bigger fights you can ignore the minigame and you still maintain it because shit runs at you

[untold niche]

worth dropping EE for quietude btw?

[vast yew]

the random blue highlights also mess with me

[bleak tulip]

at least in my 200 hours or so of playing void DD

and recording

[vast yew]

I don't like having my attention drawn to random poxwalkers instead of elites/specialists that I actually care about

[bleak tulip]

its up in bigger fights nearly all the time

[vast yew]

yeah it's easy to keep up

[untold niche]

like the only threshold that mattered when i tested when using DD was that gunners at full DD you can one tap without crit to head.
thats it

[vast yew]

I just find it annoying and distracting

[untold niche]

and im guessing you get to charge less at trash>?

at full stacks

[ornate hamlet]

I can't charge Brain Burst fast

[bleak tulip]

yeah it gets more weakspot damage

[untold niche]

compared to WS

[umbral helm]

I said this before that hyperfocusing it is the problem, you do better with it if you don't

[vast yew]

I mean if you have True Aim you barely need to charge at all vs. waves of trash, regardless of anything else going on

[untold niche]

im actually fine with it n ow

[vast yew]

double-crit headshots delete hordes

[bleak tulip]

its about the same flat damage as 4 WC (15 vs 16) but you get more weakspot damage with DD

[untold niche]

i just don't know if DD is actually worth over 4 stack WS

[untold niche]

does that translate to anything meaningful?

[vast yew]

it deals more damage; has less peril reduction and no CDR benefit

(don't take the peril quelling node it's terrible)

[bleak tulip]

its noticable

[ornate hamlet]

I can only stay alive for 1 minute. I have toughness galore, and I die instantly... So confusing.

[untold niche]

how come?
you mean quitude?

[bleak tulip]

shame crit damage is just generally shit in this game but thats not why you take it

[vast yew]

Psyker experience

[vast yew]

20% chance to quell 15% peril is average of 3% peril quelled on highlighted kill

No Quietude is great

[untold niche]

whats the consensus on this one?

[bleak tulip]

a random enemy has a 20% chance to quell a little bit

its shit

[untold niche]

im prob going to drop EE for either 15% flat toughness or quietude

[vast yew]

battle meditation unironically a better option; it's only 1% average but it triggers on every kill

[bleak tulip]

do quietude

its very comfy

[vast yew]

Quietude is extremely nice

[ornate hamlet]

DD EE FF GG are good? What have I been doing wrong? 😦

[vast yew]

the only toughness regen that affects you when you aren't blasting

and instead works on the downturn

[vast yew]

that's a piano scale

[untold niche]

i feel like for EE, the times i need it, i never get a shot, much less a crit
i.e. when 5 shotgunners are shooting at me

[bleak tulip]

my main issue is that its 1 s

[vast yew]

EE is only really consistent on Purg staff, becuase you crit like twice a second

[ornate hamlet]

Oh yes! I get it now! Uprising for life.

[untold niche]

3 seconds woul be good enuf'

[bleak tulip]

you dont crit every second like with columnus or purg

[vast yew]

also maybe-sorta Surge staff, because fast fire rate and like 60% crit

[untold niche]

at least i can slide, shoot, pray that its a crit, have some time to stand up and shoot another

[vast yew]

3 would be broken lol

[untold niche]

context of voidstrike staff

[vast yew]

toss a few assail darts, then laugh as you sprint into gunners

[bleak tulip]

gunners you can just side dodge, slide, or just run 90° or away from them

[untold niche]

side dodge, right after side dodge ends i get shot

[bleak tulip]

like literally just hit the bricks

[vast yew]

in context of Voidstrike you spend a lot of time not firing, either lining up shots or charging

so better to just get a nice comfy wall and peak out to fire

[untold niche]

i usually try side dodge into sprint slide

but right after side dodge i get shot

[untold niche]

what you mean, i slide and charge

[bleak tulip]

also you can jus suppress gunners with staff left click because it has stupid suppression

[untold niche]

i keep forgetting that

[bleak tulip]

just click on em

dont even have to quell cancel anymore

[untold niche]

that one is very useful on the minigun ogryn

[vast yew]

your dodge frames expire; side dodge-slide gives more frames
then left click them while in middle of slide to get them to stop shooting for a sec

but you generally want to GTFO to cover anyways

[bleak tulip]

yeah dont get caught out obv

[vast yew]

also if you get hit, gunner shots slow/stun you, which usually means you're gonna die REAL quick

[bleak tulip]

if you are caught out, sprint away

[vast yew]

unless you have a Deflector force sword and swap-block as fast as you can

[bleak tulip]

try and get to cover

dodge and sprint that is, cant sprint while youre getting staggered by gunners I think

[vast yew]

so yeah try not to get caught in the middle of a room

[untold niche]

oh im not supposed to spam slide into them?

[vast yew]

not on Psyker no lol

[untold niche]

also i have sunk cost fallacy
i can;'t give up on deflector 4 now

[vast yew]

Zealot can pull that shit, because they have Thy Wrath Be Swift to avoid the stun and take 50% damage while sprinting or sliding

[untold niche]

take 50% damage while sprinting or sliding

wait what.
i know of twbs but what is that one

[bleak tulip]

ye

[vast yew]

Zealots take half damage when sprinting, sliding, or dodging

[bleak tulip]

psyker

[untold niche]

@bleak tulip would deflector 4 let me block ojne more shotgunner shot compared to d3?

[vast yew]

Psykers also take half damage while dodging and sliding, but not sprinting

[bleak tulip]

no fuckin idea I dont play deflector at all

never did

even when I mained FS

[vast yew]

probably but not enough to matter usually; Deflector's job is to block the attacks so you don't get stunlocked and can scooby doo outta there

if you're standing there blocking you're doing it wrong

[bleak tulip]

even under the best of circumstances it just stops you getting staggered for a little bit, you still gotta dip

thats what dome is for

[vast yew]

yeah dome does a similar job, although I've gotten staggered out of the cast animation

which is mildly frustrating

[bleak tulip]

at least youre not a pre patch 14/15 zealot with relic

[vast yew]

phantom chorus always fun times

you pull out the icon, the enemies go "you have no power here" and beat you to death anyways while you're animation-locked

[untold niche]

I feel terrible on dome
I get scared that i never use it, and when i do, when its on CD i felt liek "damn i really need it now instead"

[bleak tulip]

I should run chorus more

[tame venture]

Sometimes I liked using deflector to close to melee on shotgunners, or advance to some better cover

[bleak tulip]

but chastise is too fun

[untold niche]

poxbursters ignore this rule right

[vast yew]

yeah if there's only a few and you're close enough you can block while sliding to get up to them

[vast yew]

I haven't the faintest idea

[untold niche]

tried it in pskj and uh

doesnt seem to be less damage

its exactly the same

[bleak tulip]

its only toughness damage so I dont think it matters

[tame venture]

Ngl it's a cool thing to do conceptually

[bleak tulip]

since they kinda just strip it

[vast yew]

https://tenor.com/view/darth-vader-lightsaber-deflect-deflection-gif-14785820

[tame venture]

https://tenor.com/view/the-matrix-keanu-reeves-neo-bulelts-catching-bullets-gif-4011207

[untold niche]

i slide into fire and my toughness becomes 101 instead of 97...

[hot zephyr]

This is what bubble shield feels like when used right. It's so nice.

[vast yew]

with good enough graphics you can see the bullets fired at you slow down and stop, then drop to the ground

I can't though because even with my 3080 I have to turn everything down low just to try and touch 60 fps

very annoying

[hot zephyr]

Lol, my machine is a toaster compared to that

[untold niche]

wait should i even take PC if im on bobble?

[hot zephyr]

i5 7600K and RX570

[vast yew]

I think there's something else going on because multiple games have issues hitting 60 and I really shouldn't

[bleak tulip]

why not?

its free damage

[hot zephyr]

If you play on Auric difficulty, you should always take PC

[bleak tulip]

youll kill specials and elites so commonly that youll get so much damage out of it anyway

all for 1 point with the best toughness talent as the only prereq

[untold niche]

i only notice soul blaze the most when i vent them

[bleak tulip]

its a no brainer imo

[vast yew]

PC is great on every build

[untold niche]

as in when i proc PC obviously i can see the flames

but feeling the effects

usually is when i vent a mauler horde

then it lowers thresholds

[vast yew]

you'll notice PC more on higher difficulties

[hot zephyr]

PC is self-stacking. You murder a special pack and everything nearby gets a full stack pf soulblaze. You won't see it often but the damage it deals is crazy

[bleak tulip]

it does stack with itself

[untold niche]

thats only if they die to your PC no

[vast yew]

kill 4 maulers in a wave, then your aimed heavy attack suddenly misses because the 5th mauler burned

[bleak tulip]

PC is what wildfire wishes it was

[vast yew]

PC triggers when an Elite dies to anything except Soulblaze

[hot zephyr]

No, they just need to die.

[vast yew]

to prevent absurdity

[untold niche]

wait but, i must kill them right , can't be my teammate

[bleak tulip]

yes

[vast yew]

correct, but Psykers rarely have problems killing Elites

[untold niche]

so like e.g. i kill one mauler, PC procs, but before i can kill another one my team kills him

[hot zephyr]

My columnus will murder 2-3 shotgunners and the rest will burst into flames like they were doused in gasoline

[untold niche]

so the second guy i get to shoot is prob the last guy in the mauler horde

[vast yew]

Mauler waves are like 10 of them in Aurics

[untold niche]

i count like 7 at best

not 10

[vast yew]

and if you get Scab Melee Maelstrom then it's like the whole screen

[bleak tulip]

ragers are like 10

shotgunners too

gunners often enough too

[hot zephyr]

Yeah you aren't dealing with Auric-sized special packs. You get 6+ crushers routinely on A5 Damn, rager/gunner packs are like 7-10 minimum, hounds are like in 15s

[bleak tulip]

and gunners tend to stand close enough that you get value even at range

[vast yew]

fair enough I dont' count I just see more than 4 and panic

[bleak tulip]

then aurics also spawn trappers and shit into the mixed hordes as well that are squishy and just add more stacks

[untold niche]

i just played a5histg
most i got was 4 crusher with 2 bulwark and either mauler or rager

[vast yew]

There's also some tech where you kill 2-3 of them at range, then swap to an Uncanny strike weapon and start headshotting. The Uncanny will apply to the Soulblaze stacks and even crushers start to burn

[bleak tulip]

but yeah long story short PC is always good no matter the build

[untold niche]

i usually play a5histg too
taht was why i was asking if director got toned down recently

[bleak tulip]

on gunker you wanna take quietide as prerequisite obv but thats about the only change

[hot zephyr]

Not sure what to tell you then. I played an an Auric HERESY HISTG eariler and saw multiple shotgun/gunner packs of that size or more

[plucky flax]

How dare he does more damage than the team combined in twins hard mode. The blaze trauma buff propaganda.

[hot zephyr]

Like, eariler as in like, two hours ago.

[vast yew]

heck even on most other builds I find Mettle deals enough heavy lifting to not even require Soulstealer

[untold niche]

shotgunners arel ike 6 for me, then when some dies another few more trickle in sometimes
defo don't have 10 on the screen at once

[hot zephyr]

Aight, well. AI Director must be nice to you lol

Dunno what to say

[untold niche]

there are 2 types of shotgunners right

the metal guy and cloth dudes

[hot zephyr]

Dreg and Scab yeah

[untold niche]

i find that usualyl cloth dude ai director spawn more

[vast yew]

Scabs and Dregs

[untold niche]

metal guy spawn less

context of shotgunners

[ionic needle]

Scab is usually more rare when there's a variant

[untold niche]

what variant

[hot zephyr]

Wait... Dreg is the cloth dude and Scab has flak armour right?

[vast yew]

scabs also have extra types of Elites to spawn, like Maulers, Crushers, Bulwarks
Dregs have... Ragers, Gunners, Shotgunners

[ionic needle]

Off of the top of my head ragers and flamers vary too

[vast yew]

correct

[ionic needle]

Oh gunners too

[vast yew]

Flamers are Specialists tho

[untold niche]

the spawns are by factions?

[vast yew]

so they don't count towards Elite spawns

[untold niche]

ok makes sense why cloth shotgunners hordes are bigger

[ionic needle]

Yeah I don't think there's even a difference in armor between tox and regular flamer

[vast yew]

normally the sections of the map get portioned off by faction

except for specialists

they don't care

but you'll normally notice only Dregs for a while, then only scabs, then back to dregs, etc.

[untold niche]

ngl i never noticed

[hot zephyr]

Yeah, Trapper, Bomber, Flamers, Mutant, Sniper, Dog are all specialists. Ragers, Maulers, Shotgunners, Gunners and Ogryn variants are elite

[vast yew]

unless you're on Scab Melee Maelstrom, in which case it's 100% Scabs all the time with the only exceptions being the Mutant and Dog (which are neither)

[untold niche]

Wait that's weird though. It's not rare to see ragers of both types at the same time

[bleak tulip]

there isnt

both maniac all over

[vast yew]

you'll see mixed groups near where it switches

usually a standing rager group gets mixed in with one that spawns a bit further away

[bleak tulip]

the only difference is that tox flamers do a bit of corruption and maybe some damage difference

[vast yew]

next time you run a map keep track of what you're fighting

you'll see the switches

[ionic needle]

Tox flamers do corruption? Really?

[untold niche]

About this. Am I an asshole if I shoot patrols for fun to get aggroed

[ionic needle]

Never noticed

[vast yew]

depends on what you shoot them with

a single Columnus bullet? jerk

[untold niche]

Sometimes with a small pea

[vast yew]

full-charge Voidstrike? you're good

[bleak tulip]

same with poxwalkers when they hit you

[hot zephyr]

I definitely see mixed rager packs constantly. Usually like 3 Scab Ragers and then like 3 Dregs and some trash

[bleak tulip]

I dont think they spawn together but they can sometimes mix I guess

[vast yew]

In my experience you see the mixed packs when you're at the borders between "areas"

[untold niche]

But you don't do that? :p

[vast yew]

No I have right-click Assail for that 😛

[hot zephyr]

Yeah, I definitely aggro lots of packs, but it's cus I chuck like 5 RMB Assails at them and they implode

[untold niche]

In my mind I'm just helping them play more of the game

So sometime I shoot a pea and watch my team begrudgingly kill the 1x bulwark and 5x rager I aggroed for no reason

[vast yew]

I don't really see ways to avoid patrols in this game unlike Vermintide

they tend to aggro no matter what

unless they're waaaay off to the side

[untold niche]

Nah sometimes they sit on the flank route

[hot zephyr]

Wait... you can sneak past enemies in this game?

WHAT?!?!?!

[vast yew]

They're also way less deadly in this game IMO

[clear heath]

I havne't seen any difference in damage or any corruption damage from tox flamers

They seem to be exactly the same

[vast yew]

They don't cause me the same fear that seeing 8 Chaos warriors turn around in VT2 does

[bleak tulip]

then I have been lied to

theyre less patrols in this game but yeah you can technically avoid enemies sometimes

[vast yew]

the only enemies I avoid actively are Daemonhosts, and even then 10% of the time I get a Thammer Zealot who runs up to bonk it anyways

[untold niche]

The only time I felt fear in this game is wen I have 3 crushers looking to pack my underwear and have no where to run

Also the time I ran into small room. Thought was 3 crushers and it was 6

[hot zephyr]

Yeah the only thing I've ever avoided is DHs

[vast yew]

Trauma staff user: "The only thing I am surrounded by is FEAR, and dead Ogryns"

[hot zephyr]

Everything else gets the Emperor's Mercy

[untold niche]

I genuinely don't like DHs in the game

[vast yew]

Now that I'm more used to tanking them I don't mind them as much

[hot zephyr]

I mean, DHs need to exist. They exist to force you to take an alternate route

[vast yew]

but a lot of teammates do stupid things and don't know how to tank them, then die

[untold niche]

And what changes with you taking the alternative route lol

[vast yew]

or an Ironhelm/Chorus Zealot thinks they can still one-tap it then gets surprised when they can't

I don't think they need to exist, but they're just like a Witch in L4D2

easy enough to handle if you're smart

[bleak tulip]

they mostly act as barriers for positioning consideration

[vast yew]

they also stop trigger-happy friends from being too trigger happy

[bleak tulip]

most of the time you cant even really take alternate routes

[untold niche]

Yeah and imo that cuts the flow in a really bad way

[vast yew]

never forget the time I tossed a Blaze Trauma full-charge crit into a group of enemies... just to see to my horror that there was a DH in the middle

[untold niche]

Esp those times when it's in the way of where enemies spawn

[bleak tulip]

thats the challenge

I think the game is better for having them

[vast yew]

I mean if you cut LOS to enemies that spawn in they'll eventually move to chase you

[untold niche]

It's not hard to do. Just wait till enemies are closer

But it's not fun to do.

[vast yew]

if a pack of gunners is sitting on a DH just leave, they'll move

[bleak tulip]

its hard to do sometimes when you gotta move in hishock

[vast yew]

the only DH I hate is that one on... Hab Dreyko? Where you have to jump on the railing to avoid triggering it as Ogryn

forget the map

[hot zephyr]

I will admit I like the gameplay element of DH being disturbed by flashlights, makes lights-out that much more pants-poopy when you hear a DH nearby and have to click off your flashlight

[untold niche]

Like when somehow you need to move and there is big horde?

Usually those cases I just see my team proc the DH and take the L

[vast yew]

I mean you can also just... stand still and kill the horde

[bleak tulip]

thats why its a skill check yeah

[vast yew]

hordes are only problems when mixed with other stuff

[honest wadi]

What Staff do i run on a Assail build and what Melee weapon?

[vast yew]

very open-ended question

[untold niche]

That's what normally happens but if like 2 guys decide they don't want to camp...

[vast yew]

but I run Assail on my Surge + DS4 build

[hot zephyr]

That very much depends on talents and how you are using assail

[pastel rapids]

Psykers, is this a good gun to pick up?

[bleak tulip]

no

recon bad

especially on psyker

[violet oak]

recon is the embodiment of "lol flash light"

[hot zephyr]

Recon Lasgun is about the only trash-tier gun we have

[bleak tulip]

play columnus, the other other IAG or revolver or something

[vast yew]

nah that's a bit bricked anyways; you don't need Headhunter when you have True Aim

[unkempt parcel]

recon gun users will be shot into the closest availible star

[vast yew]

if they buff Recon you'd still need another one

[untold niche]

Even so it's more of being careful I feel.

I don't want to be careful in this manner in an action game

[pastel rapids]

okay cool i'll save my marks

[bleak tulip]

then pull back and fight the bad shit then rush by her

itll cost resources but shouldnt be imopssible

[vast yew]

watch some recordings of 1-man clutches, they almost always have to pull back at some point to get space to deal with stuff

this isn't the sort of game you can go-go-go-go all the time

[bleak tulip]

the bigger issue really is not coordinating if you push past the DH area or fall back

thats the only common way I fail because of a DH on aurics

[vast yew]

even the DH isn't a huge deal if you proc them when nothing else is going on

[bleak tulip]

DH in choke point and the director spawns a fat mixed horde

[vast yew]

but you'll have to stop and slow down a lot more than if you'd just been smart about it

[hot zephyr]

Yeah, this is really important to realize. Time and space are just as much resources in this game as peril or ammo or plasteel

[vast yew]

yup, plus if you pull back, enemies have to follow you. Run through a door? those enemies now have to run through the same door to reach you. Free chokepoint

[bleak tulip]

game'll spawn specials behind you no matter what anyway yeah

falling back is valid

[vast yew]

it sure does; another good reason to run back a bit, so you can deal with the specials before the horde reaches you and demands your attention

[hot zephyr]

I mean, someone usually the psyker, should be clearing your six every so often anyways so you don't get tailed by bombers and trappers

[bleak tulip]

doesnt really matter who

good players just do it

[vast yew]

yeah whoever isn't currently engaged with something important should have their head on a swivel

quelling/reloading is a great time to glance around

[bleak tulip]

one of the easiest ways to tell if a player is decent is if you see em look back sometimes

[hot zephyr]

I usually like chucking an assail shard just in case, since it'll seek something behind a corner

[honest wadi]

im interested in that build the force sword feels nice

[hot zephyr]

But that's cus I've had a surprise trapper from behind soooooo many times

[vast yew]

it's also a better idea for the 3rd character to look behind; if they see something and shoot it, the 4th character will see that and can turn around to help

if the 4th character turns around and engages sometimes the other 3 don't notice

[mint pivot]

Its best when you are up there at the lead smiting entire generations of mofos and all the other 3 decide that they HAVE TO chase after a bomber or trapper that is alone behind us