psyker-class

[whole oxide]

sure its not 100% accurate, and it'll be skewed by better players leaning towards different things than newbies, but, it's not totally meaningless

[viral solstice]

all staves are cope

thats just factual

staves got done dirty

it is what it is

[fluid knot]

Personally i take that with a pinch of salt, because my experience of successful runs would show vastly different data

[languid tusk]

when a very popular gun is also very effective in the tierlsit, it is the mark of a OP weapon

[viral solstice]

pray for wizard sticks

[plucky flax]

What is your finding?

[still hearth]

The data is basically useless unless you also consider all other combinations

[teal needle]

You can assume the data is going to be less accurate for rarer weapons like revolver psyker and agri shottie zealot. And probably las pistol

[still hearth]

Does X weapon win a lot because those games had a lot of Y in it

[fluid knot]

Well for example i would say success rates with Boltgun are higher than Hellbore overall, and yet Hellbore for Vet is S tier an Boltgun isnt

[still hearth]

Where is this meme from

[fluid knot]

Same as i would say Purga Psykers would have a lower success rate overall than Trauma or Surge

[whole oxide]

but thats the point of a large sample-size, it average out those factors

[cyan notch]

i can make a reddit post with 250,000 games and make up my own tier list

[languid tusk]

from reddit thread

[teal needle]

I personally have experienced gunkers and trauma doing way more work at higher level 🤷

[safe crystal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/16r0gjg/ranged_weapon_tier_list_based_on_2500_public_high/

[plucky flax]

Hrm helbore is rarer indeed but I can't remember I lost a game with a helbore in the team.

[safe crystal]

The list is absolute trash

No oggy weapons in S?

[plucky flax]

Too many bolter guys just mag dump.

[teal needle]

I mean unironically do so and post actual data and it will be a valuable anecdote to contribute to a larger corpus

[fluid knot]

I lost one yesterday with Hellbore user :/

[languid tusk]

copeatus much ?

[still hearth]

But there's so many variables in this

Every other class.

[plucky flax]

Dayum it wasn't me. I haven't played helbore this week.

[still hearth]

Everyone else's weapons

Curios

Talents

[cyan notch]

thats my point theres no data at all i can just say whatever i want

[still hearth]

The weapon itself

[whole oxide]

again, a large sample size, will average out those issues

[still hearth]

Yeah but even 2500 isn't big enough

[upper galleon]

It's not trash

[safe crystal]

I mean, from my perspective, from the past 500 games i've played, i could just pull out a recon lasgun = S for all classes with access to it because we won most games with that thing in the team

[upper galleon]

it's just that no one knows how to read data

[still hearth]

The tier list is stupid

The data isn't useless though

[plucky flax]

I trust reddit with my life. Purg is trash tier.

[upper galleon]

i think he should have posted the raw data

[cyan notch]

yes u can make anything up

[teal needle]

Assuming a truly random sampling you honestly don't need huge numbers for statistically useful output. The reddit thread is not random sampling tho

[still hearth]

THey also say purg is OP

[kindred anchor]

Its ok I think the main weakness is it cant do anything to spam specials

[upper galleon]

but I am hoping everyone here is smart enough to know kanty shotgun isn't the best gun on veteran

[plucky flax]

Pls source

[cyan notch]

it is pretty useless

[kindred anchor]

I dont talk alot in this chat becus glasses

[still hearth]

I can use it to point and laugh at people who think gun psyker is better

[zinc phoenix]

Consider the permutations of:

• classes included
• weapons included
• map played
• spawns
• build used

2500 games isn’t even enough to fully explore that space let alone make serious statistical claims from it, it’s absolutely gargantuan

[still hearth]

Because of it

[upper galleon]

nah, it's pretty good to see playrate vs winrate on objectively OP weapons vs low playerate weapons with high winrate

[cyan notch]

almost nothing can be meaningfully concluded from it other than this guy writes long paragraphs

[zinc phoenix]

Reddit moment

[still hearth]

Tbh does the OP even

Post the data

Or do they just make claims

[cyan notch]

there is no raq data

[still hearth]

Lmao

[whole oxide]

that would be true if you're looking for a 100% accurate concrete proof, but it doesn't mean that the data that is there is 100% meaningless, it can still indicate a trend

[still hearth]

So its just "trust me bro"

[kindred anchor]

2500 games of hishock is alot

[still hearth]

[cyan notch]

thats why i said i can say i did 2.5 million games and make a tier list with recon at the top

everything else F

[whole oxide]

that's some serious cope to just assume he's lying

[still hearth]

Or he's just collecting data that doesn't represent reality.

Tbh

I assume everyone on reddit is lying

Unless they can prove it

[kindred anchor]

I havent done 2500 games of hi shock

Or id be level 2500

[cyan notch]

how do we know it isnt just 250 games

or 25 games

[teal needle]

The raw could also be falsified if posted

[whole oxide]

if he posted a video, nah bro, it's been photoshopped, CGI

[teal needle]

All of reality can be falsified, in fact, and ergo we live in a simulation

[crude cape]

you mean like spam kill special units? no, not quite as fast as like a bolter vet or something true. purg staff goes brrrr tho if things clumped up in a mixed horde

[safe crystal]

The list specifically doesnt take into account if the person with the weapon was actually a useful part of the team, or sandbagged the entire round either

[still hearth]

Sure. But at least then that's something you can look at and draw our own conclusions.

[cyan notch]

or 34 games and then he faked the other 16 games data and then said he did 2500 games

[plucky flax]

Why would redditor lie? Reddit and discord are famously reliable source.

[still hearth]

Like I'd rather

See a list of "here's the win rate I get with this weapon and this set-up over 1000 games"

Than "here's the win rate randoms in my team get that I can't quantify at all".

[whole oxide]

surely that'd be worse, it'd be more biased to your personal skill

[teal needle]

Big Voidstrike is falsifying the data to hide how op it its and avoid nerfs

[lunar hollow]

like, at the simplest, it doesn't factor in perks/blessings etc. that is fundamentally useless

because a bunch of weapons are just outright twice as strong with certain blessing combos

[crude cape]

i too saw this post, and was like "what?!" at some of the results. gotta be bad data

[whole oxide]

as if everyone's not running the same 2-3 blessings per weapon

[still hearth]

I mean its a more consistent factor than having all these random things that the guy doesn't know come into play.

[crude cape]

revolver the most op gun? kant shotty? on vet? lol what

[whole oxide]

yeah, and thats worse

[feral inlet]

i used the voidstrike in one game at level 16 and won topscoring, therefore the voidstrike is in S tier because it has 100% winrate and carry capability.

[teal needle]

That's... a way worse data set, though?

[crude cape]

i mean they're serviceable, but the besT?

[lunar hollow]

yeah, they're not. you'd be surprised

[feral inlet]

disagree = wrong

[still hearth]

But you can't see most of the data so you're drawing conclusions based on things that you can't see

[upper galleon]

but then you'd be lying about your data

[still hearth]

Because its not just the weapon we get data for here

[feral inlet]

2500 auric games means the poster (if all the games were won) would be level 2000 in darktide

[still hearth]

Or rather don't get in this case.

[feral inlet]

and as far as iknow the highest level player is roughly 1700

[upper galleon]

what

[still hearth]

To be fair they didn't necessarily win all of those.

[feral inlet]

the post said auric games played of hishocks

[still hearth]

In fact

[feral inlet]

IF the winrate was 100% for every game

[still hearth]

They probably lost a lot

[cyan notch]

just like how the OP could be lying

[lunar hollow]

fundamentally i think categorizing stuff as a "tier list" is just going to mislead people. a bunch of people in those comments are misinterpreting what "S Tier" and so on means

[upper galleon]

i've played hundreds of games

why would OP lie and say kanty shotgun is S tier but with an extremely low playrate?

[still hearth]

Yeah this is the real issue with whatever OP is doing

[lunar hollow]

even if the author specifies it is specifically about recorded winrate

[olive ember]

How dare you

[lunar hollow]

he chose a stupid way to categorize it

[still hearth]

Why not just post the win rates??

[olive ember]

I make long paragraphs too

[upper galleon]

categorizing into tier list was dumb

[still hearth]

And the games

And the data

Like

[olive ember]

BOLTER IS A D TIER GUN ON ZEALOT CONFIRMED

[still hearth]

This is true.

All this tier list says is

[upper galleon]

REVOLVER S TIER ON PSYKER

[still hearth]

S tier weapons

Are weapons that work but only people who are good use it

[upper galleon]

surge is the best staff!

[still hearth]

Or they get carried

Who knows

[feral inlet]

revolver on zealot > bolter on zealot

[still hearth]

[lunar hollow]

the data on its own is whatever, from my personal experience kant shotgun vets are either really good players or functionally useless, and ive hardly seen vets use it in general

[upper galleon]

wrong

[still hearth]

Unironcally though

[upper galleon]

i can't press F on revolver and kill 7 crushers

[still hearth]

That's not what the Revolver is for

[upper galleon]

ironically though

[olive ember]

Revolver psyker S tier lmao

I can’t

[lunar hollow]

the revolver is so that you can run around and feel cool

[feral inlet]

you know shit's real when derpy disagrees with something

[still hearth]

Revolver is great

Youc an whip it out

Knock a fool down

Go back to meleeing

Ez pz

[upper galleon]

oh I know it isn't, i'm just guessing any psyker insane enough to take revolver is a mentally insane pro who needs to challenge themselves

[crude cape]

i do have a psyker revolver build thats fun

but i wouldn't call it S tier

[upper galleon]

just slide backwards with bolter

[olive ember]

Pygex was running revolver and he apparently liked it

[lunar hollow]

or absolute shit tier, and most people dont fall into either category

[olive ember]

Said it was pnics

[lunar hollow]

(and also dont use revolver on psyker)

[cyan notch]

u can just take a revolver and then just main illisi and bb its pretty ez

[crude cape]

revolver is best on a zealot, imo. Its a perfect elite sniping/problem solving weapon for them that can pull out fast and go back to melee

[olive ember]

Something something stack warp battery n shit to buff revolver damage to hit breakpoints

[queen fog]

https://tenor.com/view/scaramouche-samurai-jack-samuraijack-gif-9715149

[languid tusk]

is it so hard to accept revolver is the S tier weapon for psyker and you have been playing psyker the wrong way >

[still hearth]

It's still bad though but I agree.

[languid tusk]

[olive ember]

And then use AB for horde clear

[still hearth]

I love using the Revolver on Zealot

[upper galleon]

i mean, mk3 helbore I think is accurate

[queen fog]

Come on reject whip out ur crazy gun!

[still hearth]

So I can go bang bang and knock a dog off my friend

[upper galleon]

crab singlehandedly carried it to S tier on vet

slash joke

[digital narwhal]

Flak + Unarmoured on this, yeah?

[upper galleon]

but mk3 is not a fun or easy to use weapon, but it is extremely effective

[digital narwhal]

(I got really fucking lucky with Blessings)

[kindred anchor]

Mk3 helbore sux

[upper galleon]

shredder crutcher

[feral inlet]

i'd keep maniac so you can make up for the 60% maniac damage

[crude cape]

honestly, i dont think so. one of my most effective builds on zealot for high difficulty is revolver/rashad axe. You can kill/duel anything, quick elite sniping to take out those specials before they do anything.
its not the best gun in the game or anything, but its super solid

[teal needle]

I like agri shottie as a revolver alternative on zealot

[upper galleon]

i mean bolter is better than revolver

[upper galleon]

you just have to play around the pull out time

[lunar hollow]

im gonna be honest the rashad just carries that loadout

caxe + whatever is super strong

[upper galleon]

but that is also partly cause pinning fire

[still hearth]

It does really shit damage for the ammo it uses.

[lunar hollow]

doesnt have anything to do with revolver

[indigo portal]

eoeoeoeoeoeoeo brrrrrrrg

[still hearth]

The Revolver is absolutely an ammo waste

[cyan notch]

tierlists are generally worthless cuz theyre subjective and i dont personally care how mr xyz on reddit ranks 47 different items on an arbitrary scale

meaningless

[still hearth]

Alright time to try the Wrack and Ruin Voidstrike KB build

Wish me luck

[kindred anchor]

Game with 4 top meta weapons on vet vs each other

[crude cape]

on zealot? Nah. Not at all.
Slow, unwieldy, takes longer i think to reload and you can't reload 1-2 bullets and take out an important unit.
on vet bolter is god tier, but i don't even like it that much on zealot. You can kill/duel most units the bolter kills easily with a rashad axe

[teal needle]

The ammo is my biggest issue with revolver personally

[upper galleon]

yes except

Zealot F

scales bolter

[still hearth]

Zealot F

SCALES FLAMER

TO THE SKYYYY

[upper galleon]

to an insane level which is needed for bulwark and crusher packs

cause you can't really melee into multiple bulwarks

[queen fog]

The power of faith going crazy if just shouting to the emperor makes gun shoot better

[plucky flax]

Mk2 better than mk3 helbore.

[kindred anchor]

Nuh no crusher and boss damage

[upper galleon]

you just need to play around the pull out time

[reef island]

this useful at all? and if so what to change?

[upper galleon]

it's dead on accurate entering ads

[crude cape]

scales every ranged weapon. Not that useful when dumping ammo with the zealots lower ammo capacity, compared to vet bolter feels bad, and i can duel those crushers and literally 3 shot them in the head with a rashad axe no ammo useage.
Sure, its a good "oh shit" button gun, i'll give you that. But if you play well and know the quick swap timings and hipfire aim on the revolver, idk. Its EXCELLENT on a zealot when used right

[upper galleon]

it's literally not ammo dump when you clear multiple bulwarks/crushers

and you can still pick off things with it, just harder to aim

[crude cape]

im just saying you dont need to do that

when you have a rashad axe

[upper galleon]

agri shotgun does that better at that point

[crude cape]

and can still kill them with revolver + f if you really wanted to

[upper galleon]

cause you aren't really using Rev for cara damage

[indigo portal]

I think Revolver on Zealot is like, B tier for me. It's got ~sustained damage with the shoot one > reload one thing, then has burst damage for mag dumping. I've had a couple moments where the high cleave comes in handy, it feels like a Plasma Gun with the pen sometimes. It has a niche that isn't common to find but when I bring one I don't feel useless.

[upper galleon]

so agri shotgun>revolver

[crude cape]

nah man, not even close lol

loading that slug in each time

miss me

[teal needle]

agri shottie stn has entered the room

Jk i never left

[crude cape]

revolver is unmatched for versatility/quick solving specials on zealot

i truly think its an A or S tier zealot ranged option

when used right

[upper galleon]

like you reload a revolver shot everytime

[crude cape]

i can shoot 5 in a row

before i reload

[upper galleon]

and I can shoot the agri 13 times

[indigo portal]

Absolutely not if were scaling it off of other options.

[crude cape]

and then i can reload 1, fire, or 2, fire fire. its way more versatile

[teal needle]

Agri holds like what 12 slugs in the clip

[upper galleon]

🤷

[crude cape]

no

[upper galleon]

1 slug at a time

[crude cape]

it holds 1 slug

[upper galleon]

but slug loading is faster than reloading

[teal needle]

And it reloads faster

[upper galleon]

but it's the same or better on everything except carapace

[crude cape]

not if you're reloading EVERY SHOT

[teal needle]

The bolt action on it isn't that much of an impediment

[crude cape]

thats so much action economy lost

[upper galleon]

cause fullbore no respite

is OP

[crude cape]

if you guys think the agri shotty is as good as revolver on damnation high sgt idk what to say lol

play more zealot?

[upper galleon]

? you reload faster so you reload during downtime, just like revolver

[crude cape]

we can disagree

[upper galleon]

i'm literally a zealot main

[crude cape]

but its not even close

[upper galleon]

i used to use revolver

every fucking game

[crude cape]

since the buff?

[upper galleon]

revolver has shit blessings and blessings carry agri over buffed revolver

no respite+ fullbore

easy life

[teal needle]

Disagree = wrong but presented unironically

[crude cape]

im not saying other options arent good

[upper galleon]

go maniac flak. same shit as revolver except for penning armor

[crude cape]

im just saying the revolver > agri shotty

[upper galleon]

except you aren't using your revolver as anti armor

yea

it's okay to be wrong

agree to disagree

fellow kindred

[cyan notch]

it is never ok to be wrong

carry on arguing

[crude cape]

you're playing high sgt, and damnation maelstrom with the agri shotty? just making sure

we aren't playing different modes

with different breakpoints

[upper galleon]

is it harder to get a good agri? yea

[teal needle]

Typo, you accidentally flipped the sign

[upper galleon]

LMAO

scroll up I play hi stg + with every class

[crude cape]

not chastising

just making sure

makes no sense to debate if we are talking about different game modes with different breakpoints

[upper galleon]

LMAO now you are just coping

[crude cape]

huh?

[indigo portal]

It's hard to compare them directly because they bring different utility. I'd say the thing the Agri brings a more versatile kit due to the nature of it, the Revolver is more burst damage focused with high cleave on the shots. They have their own little close/medium-range-precision damage kits.

[upper galleon]

the only thing I can give revolver is it's carapace damage, and that it's easier to make a great one cause you literally don't have to worry about blessings

[bold patrol]

Revolvers are pretty bad imo

[upper galleon]

but agri with no respite+ fullbore beats it out every day for the playstyle you are suggesting

[crude cape]

i mean, it 1-2 taps most specials AND penetrates. The amount of time i take a single shot and kill 2-3 specials lined up is not small

[plucky flax]

It's swag. Not my ideal perks and blessings combo tho.

[crude cape]

its carapace dmg isnt even something i think about

i use rashad axe for carapace

unless in a pinch

[upper galleon]

so does like, agri?

doesn't pen but it doesn't need to cause you have over 2x the ammo

and you reload faster

[crude cape]

reloading every shot, sure. with less penetration

[teal needle]

Haven't had trouble one shotting specials or gunners with agri slugs on 5. In auric definitely apreciate having more shots before reloading even with the bolt action because there's so many specials / shotties / gunners at once

[crude cape]

you dont reload faster lol

speedloader + having 5 in the chamber

[upper galleon]

it really does and lmao

[crude cape]

= less reloading action economy overall

than putting a slug in the chamber EVERY SHOT

and doing the animation every time

[upper galleon]

you literally talked about reloading every shot

it's a short animation lmao

[crude cape]

its an animation

you have to play EVERY SHOT

no matter how pressured

[upper galleon]

ok and you have to hard reload?

after 5?

[crude cape]

i can pull out revolver, fire up to 5 rounds, even from the hip, and be back in melee instantly

[upper galleon]

agri can still be used on normal shots close to medium close

[indigo portal]

Agri can load shots faster technically. However, Revolver can burst 5 slugs back to back. So in a case where you're only using 1 singular shot and then reloading, the Agri has an upper hand with specifically the reload.

[upper galleon]

and it also has a fast swap speed LMAO

[crude cape]

its not a big deal, when you can use it that way, then slide reload when you have space a few seconds later

the overal action economy

is way less

than loading the slug in every shot

[upper galleon]

LMAo action economy

wtf you talking about

[crude cape]

gaming terms

idk what to tell you

[upper galleon]

yea bro

[teal needle]

You can also do it 12 time before doing a real reload, pretty nice when there's a lot of crap on the map

[crude cape]

hard to have an intelligent debate when you're questioning basic gaming lingo

you do you with your agri lol

[upper galleon]

the action economy between agri and revolver

is practically the same

[crude cape]

not trying to convince you not to use it

[upper galleon]

cause agri just has to slide rounds in

you have to take out your cylinder and dump rounds

and put it back in place

I never heard action economy in a game that isn't a fighting game

or a card game

[harsh urchin]

fatshark needs to have a public API for game records

[upper galleon]

cause I'm not a maniac

[harsh urchin]

so we can look at people's profile

[crude cape]

ya but then i would rather use a kant, which does a lot more dmg with its normal fire mode and the flame round is a lot more versatile

[harsh urchin]

to skillcheck them

[teal needle]

Reading comprehension fail, it's your use of the term being questioned

[indigo portal]

APM doesn't really matter outside of fighting games or mmos.

[upper galleon]

but that's a different use case all together

kant is anti horde for stuff like thunderhammer

[crude cape]

not talking about APM, but action economy = how often you have to stop to do an action and take attention away from your normal movement/fighting/killing/defending to do some sort of 'upkeep'
Its probably more an rts term than an FPS term, addmittingly, but can be applied to really any game. i see it used all the time

[upper galleon]

you are overvalueing revolvers action economy and/or undervalueing agri shotgun action economy

[teal needle]

Everyone knows what action economy is why do you keep explaining it lmao

[upper galleon]

anyways, as an experience revolver player since beta

[crude cape]

this doesn't need to turn into an argument, you like the agri shotty on zealot. cool, i think revolver is better. As long as you're winning matches and having fun, doesn't really matter. I disagree but realizing we don't need to turn this into a thing, i gotta go back to work anyway

[upper galleon]

I think I know what I'm talking about for probably my most used weapon still

[upper galleon]

you already did tho

[crude cape]

bruh, bc i was questioned on it like 3 times lmao

and then APM was brought up

which wasn't what i was talking about

[teal needle]

Because you used it wrong lol

[crude cape]

i did not

i used it correctly lmao

[indigo portal]

APM and action economy are used for the same thing.

[crude cape]

not really? but related

[indigo portal]

You typically even find APM to determine action econ.

[harsh urchin]

the fuck are you on lol

action economy is resource based, APM is mechanical

[crude cape]

apm doesn't really apply to games outside like rts imo

[unkempt quest]

Is it good enough for T5 Maelstrom ? I've only been a deimos enjoyer so far and I'm thinking of switching to Illisi

[crude cape]

but in those games they're related, to an extent sure, as your apm can dictate your ability to have a bigger "action economy"

[upper galleon]

yes

finesse is a bit low rather have lower mobility and warp resistance

[indigo portal]

Unless I have a different understanding of either APM or action econ they're used for the same thing ime.

[upper galleon]

but otherwise it's fine

[teal needle]

Coloquially yeah, but actions spent and time spent aren't necessarily the same thing. Agri does require more apm but doesn't have a worse action economy - you can spend more time shooting and less time doung other things with agri than revolver situationally

[crude cape]

ya, you'll be totally fine. Finesse being a little low you might notice the attack speed difference (I think finesse is attack speed on illisi, correct me if wrong) so might need to be a little more careful against hordes. but it'll do fine. Illisi goes brrrrrrrr

[teal needle]

Which is why everyone is loling at the claim revolver has better action economy

[upper galleon]

you see i think it's fucking funny cause I know the damage numbers and timing and you are hear arguing theoreticals and hypothetical action times

[indigo portal]

I wasn't saying they're the same thing I said they're used for the same thing.

[upper galleon]

I guess revolver doesn't fall off as much? does that make you feel better

[unkempt quest]

Ty guys !

[harsh urchin]

in the end both weapons suck cuz they don't have pinning fire

xdd

[teal needle]

Autopistol truly the best staff

[cyan notch]

xdd

😆

[upper galleon]

true

[cyan notch]

not vet bad class

[upper galleon]

but no respite fullbore is pretty nice

[cyan notch]

xdd

😆😆

[harsh urchin]

well vet is about to get dumped

once unwavering focus and counterfire is removed

[upper galleon]

i doubt it

[harsh urchin]

wanna bet on it?

[upper galleon]

vets got real pissy after the slap on the wrist nerf to power cycler

[cyan notch]

well pinning fire is about to get dumped

xdd

[languid tusk]

yeah vet will be like zealot = weak

[teal needle]

Vet going to be lit once there's a commando build Pocket sand!

[languid tusk]

so have fun while you can

[upper galleon]

at most, I see like. pinning nerfs. 50% dr on unwavering. Less people taking ammo/grenade regen for team,

[indigo portal]

Probably just nerfed.

Not removed.

[harsh urchin]

you don't think a 100% more damage taken change is getting dumpstered?

[languid tusk]

currently they take 1/4th the damage and deal 1.5 times their normal damage while ulting, and ult can be maintained basically forever

[upper galleon]

and uhh, limiting refreshes

cause vet is the most played class and also a majority of crybabies off of this discord

[languid tusk]

i hope fatshark has the absolute B A L L S to subvert expectations and they actually end up buffing unwavering stance

[upper galleon]

power cycler nerfed caused a ripple that reached my ears and I wasn't even playing darktide or in this server during that time

[calm sapphire]

why does void staff feel terrible to use

holy

[upper galleon]

it's

in a rough spot

[teal needle]

Because it doesn't kill anything but hordes, scabs, dregs

[upper galleon]

and tbh you kinda need blessings to make it feel good

[indigo portal]

I hope Vet gets reasonable nerfs and not just outright removals of options. Unwavering Focus being a ~25-35% DR is what I'm guessing. Has impact but isn't absurd, builds well with Sharpshooter stuff.

[upper galleon]

like flurry + transfer peril

[cyan notch]

i mean we are getting more options with thr skill tree

[upper galleon]

once you get flurry+ transfer peril t4 i heard it's pretty fun, even if it's not good

[calm sapphire]

Went for blazing spirit / warp nexus for more dps

[cyan notch]

so nerfs should be fine

[teal needle]

Suspect vet is going to have to give more up to become an anti shooter God

[cyan notch]

perfect time to balance everything well

[upper galleon]

trauma blazing outshines it and purge exists

better to lean into void's unique build of flurry+transfer peril for infinite spam

[teal needle]

My money is on this patch imbalancing stuff more lol. Will take time to account for all the new play styles opening up

[calm sapphire]

ik but I actually do like void for what it is but....

[indigo portal]

Lots of stuff is probably gonna get balanced for having ~22 skills to pair with it instead of just 5.

[calm sapphire]

gun psyker suddenly becomes meta

[indigo portal]

I know the overall power of our builds will skyrocket but no way does some stuff stay the same.

[teal needle]

Already is

[indigo portal]

Rumor has it that one of the Psyker branches is a Gunker theme, not confirmed though.

[cyan notch]

its definitely not meta

theres hardly anyone using guns

[calm sapphire]

I mean why would u want to deal with the hassle over ammo hogging?

[teal needle]

If flayer + warp charges + a busted-ass full auto are still in its all gunker needs

[still hearth]

I just had one using the autopistol

I was trying out the void meme build that was mentioned to be good in auric missions

Every time I use Wrack and Ruin

It summons like

[teal needle]

Mostly because shredder can kill an entire rager patrol in one clip

[still hearth]

Everyone who instantly kills any specials and elites

To the game

[calm sapphire]

Me when I see void staff perma cc a chaos spawn

[cyan notch]

void
good

[still hearth]

Hey it wasn't the worst thing ever

At least it wasn't surge

[upper galleon]

yea

[calm sapphire]

vet shredder can do the same

[still hearth]

I just never get Wrack and Ruin off

Ever

And when I do it doesn't matter lmao

[upper galleon]

when I play thunderhammer, every surge psyker and bolter vet

just focuses them down

[cyan notch]

yea thats a problem if u dont get enough hits before someone steals your kill it feels ass

on top of not having warp unleashed

[still hearth]

And not having Warp Flurry felt horrible

[calm sapphire]

thats why I don't zealot anymore cause everything dies before I touchem

[indigo portal]

Had a game where scoreboard mod said I had ~80 overall score solely because I had 3 vets killing my Thammer's prey before I could get to it.

Was kinda boring. I only ever had an impact against a boss and I didn't even do the most damage lol.

[cyan notch]

score is pretty meaningless

[indigo portal]

It is a way to emphasize my experience and support exactly how it felt.

[teal needle]

You just need one vet for everyone to get ammo regen, psyker gets nearly as much bonus damage with warp charges and also gets brain bursts. Not saying autopistol gunker is as good as vet but am saying it's better than most staves

[indigo portal]

I don't ever use the scoreboard mod to show build viability, but rn I'm using it to show just how much I couldn't do anything.

[cyan notch]

i mean u should look at the statistics rather than the score number

[upper galleon]

scoreboard is good for relativity

you can see the recon vet and check scoreboard to confirm that yes, recon is bad

[queen fog]

But energy minigub

It go pew pew

[cyan notch]

im talking purely about the score number

[still hearth]

What's the perks for Trauma

[calm sapphire]

scoreboard doesn't account for someone who joining in late

so someone can say a shredder vet is bad cause he has x amount of kills when he joined in mid game

[upper galleon]

i mean yea

you should factor that in

LOL

i'm capable of critical thinking

[haughty scarab]

Oh really

[upper galleon]

yea my issues

is memory loss

[haughty scarab]

Oh

[upper galleon]

and poor vision

[haughty scarab]

Damn

[indigo portal]

Ah yeah I will proceed to list every single damage number during the game instead of just using the number that summarizes the score for me. Yeah totally. Thank you.

[haughty scarab]

Wait are you gonna keep the list going?

[queen fog]

Is ok I suck at figuring out what I wanna do too

I got no real vision

[upper galleon]

damn i was just answering autisticlike

[haughty scarab]

It's ok, I have terrible memory too

[upper galleon]

uhh idk

a relatively bad connection and PC

[haughty scarab]

Lmao

[cyan notch]

np

[upper galleon]

vision is probably the hardest one cause I can't pick out enemies from the environment easily

[haughty scarab]

I was being sarcastic btw

[queen fog]

Is ok just make everything look like it’s meant for the N64

Then no frames will stop u

[haughty scarab]

Not even with glasses?

[gusty furnace]

Don't worry, I can't either

[upper galleon]

yee

[gusty furnace]

#BlindGangUnite

[haughty scarab]

Lmao who needs frames when you can't see shit

[upper galleon]

and like, vent purge and lights out I barely play

i have glasses and like that helps

[haughty scarab]

I'm starting to understand why vet players can't hit shit

[upper galleon]

cause i'm legally blind w/o them

[haughty scarab]

[upper galleon]

basically non function vision except for reading close to my face

[gusty furnace]

Oh, I still top frag as every class don't worry

[cyan notch]

just use counterfire

[haughty scarab]

[gusty furnace]

I just have to shoot 4x as much as everyone else

[haughty scarab]

Lmfao

[queen fog]

Huh so I’m worse than a blind person, I gotta digest that

[haughty scarab]

So YOU'RE the guy taking all my damn flamer ammo

[thorn cedar]

tack a giant magnifying glass to ur screen and move it around to spot baddies

[haughty scarab]

[indigo portal]

I feel like you probably misunderstood why I put a scoreboard number into my message. I'm not using it to show a lack of viability with my own build, nor am I using it as a way to improve my build. I'm specifically using it to highlight just how much I couldn't do anything during the match, not at the fault of anyone it was specifically just due to having 3 vets obliterate my build's focus.

[queen fog]

At least said blind person’s wearing one of the best heros as a pfp

[gusty furnace]

Correct

[haughty scarab]

Oh shit 200 IQ

[haughty scarab]

[upper galleon]

i do LOL

[haughty scarab]

I KNEW IT

[gusty furnace]

counterfire best feat

[haughty scarab]

Oh damn

[gusty furnace]

Oh, I'm not that bad

[upper galleon]

legally blind is not true blind

[teal needle]

When are they putting fungoid cave shaman spec in the game

[upper galleon]

i'm gonna explain it cause occassionally people get confused

[gusty furnace]

I just can't see beyond 2 or 3 feet. Its just all shapes

[haughty scarab]

I'm like -1, -1.5 or something so I can even weapons qual at a range without glasses depending on weather

[teal needle]

I wanna enhance my magic with halucinagenics and a spore squig

[gusty furnace]

Driving without my glasses is an effort in public endangerment

[haughty scarab]

Damn

[calm sapphire]

colored blind as well? imagine tho

[haughty scarab]

[gusty furnace]

My 32in monitor doesn't help

It being at 31 inches also probably doesn't help

but I need my desk space

[upper galleon]

true blindness is having no vision, legally blind means that without glasses or another medical tool I would be treated as if I was blind and endangering people

[haughty scarab]

I knew a guy who found he was color blind for the first time at 25 when he took the color test for the army

Poor man thought everything was green and blue or something

[upper galleon]

like, if I drove without glasses or contacts or surgery, it's a felony

i'm, not really colorblind?

[haughty scarab]

What a criminal

[upper galleon]

I'm pretty sure i'm not in any way

[cyan notch]

[teal needle]

Still boggles me that there are people who can't hold images in their head. Or that can't manifest an internal dialog

[haughty scarab]

Most people when driving anyway

[gusty furnace]

Heyu

[haughty scarab]

Cracked af

[gusty furnace]

I can't see things in my head

its just all words

[haughty scarab]

[indigo portal]

The worst thing ever is I cannot see beyond ~2 inches without glasses, which means I was robbed of ever reading while laying down comfortably.

[gusty furnace]

When I close my eyes, I can see the back of my eyelids

das it

[crude cape]

lol tbh fuck those modes. Fun once in a while but not really fun enough to make me choose them. Althought the game looks dope in lights out

[gusty furnace]

once upon a time I had a veeeeery weak minds eye

it has been gone for almost 20 years

[haughty scarab]

Just get the people with 18 voices in their head to share some

Spread the wealth

[cyan notch]

are u capping

[gusty furnace]

My inner voice lisps

[gusty furnace]

Nope

[teal needle]

Dream psyker hoarding all the danged voices smdh

[gusty furnace]

I've been on both sides of the aphantasia fence

[calm sapphire]

vent purge with sniper spam

so fun am i right?

[cyan notch]

that is fascinating

[zinc phoenix]

the issue is that if there is persistent skew in a particular direction the results are actively misleading rather than merely uninformative. for instance if the player in question only did meme builds with psyker, their weapon tiers for psyker might be weird and wrong

[upper galleon]

mfw i walk past an entire squad of scab stalkeres cause it's lights out

and i just don't fuckin see them

[haughty scarab]

Max brightness

[indigo portal]

mfw the scab stalkers actually stalk for once

[haughty scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/flashbang-light-mode-discord-light-mode-cs-go-counter-strike-gif-25596696

[calm sapphire]

bf 2 🤡

[gusty furnace]

I wish fatsharks lighting engine weren't so dogshit

I have to play with global illumination on low

it breaks every single room in the game

[haughty scarab]

I want a game where the flashbangs actually cause epilepsy

[gusty furnace]

They're either PITCH BLACK

[haughty scarab]

True realism

[gusty furnace]

or ALL THE LIGHT

[crude cape]

so, ive always wondered if its possible this is often a condition of difference in "description". Like one person says "I can see it in my head" and the other goes "I can't see literal images, im mind blind!"
but obviously its a studied/scientific phenomena/condition so i know im incorrect, but its always been something interesting to me.
Is there like, a measurable way to test if someone is "mind blind"?

just curious, if any questions im asking are insensitive just say so

[gusty furnace]

Shitty ass lighting engine 😠

[blazing echo]

That's REALLY weird, when I close my eyes I can see the back of your eyelids too!

[gusty furnace]

I have no idea

I can just self report

[haughty scarab]

Oh I haven't noticed it being bad

[gusty furnace]

I cannot see objects in my head

[haughty scarab]

But I don't pay attention to lighting in games

[gusty furnace]

I was able to

when I was a small child

but the skill disappeared

[haughty scarab]

[calm sapphire]

bloom

[crude cape]

so like, i dont think im mind blind personally, but when i think about "seeing" an object in my head, its more like an imagined thing im just -thinking- about. I don't see a literal image

i feel like this is the norm

[blazing echo]

I wonder what skill or ability you replaced it with.

[haughty scarab]

Kal I always knew you were part of a hive mind

[crude cape]

maybe really good artists can see more literal images?

and thats why they're so skilled at art?

[haughty scarab]

What's bloom?

[gusty furnace]

funny

I draw

and I lack a minds eye

[cyan notch]

so if u close your eyes you dont know whats in your room? would u know where things are?

[blazing echo]

Just don't eat the corpse starch if you don't want to be part of the family

[gusty furnace]

I just use what I'm drawing as a self-referential tool

"That doesn't look right"

Changes it

so on and so forth

[teal needle]

At least on that front i know some "mind blind" artists that are super good. Composition is a technique

[calm sapphire]

makes the edges of objects very shiny

[gusty furnace]

Oh, apparently its measured through like

brain waves

The minds eye will spark the same areas as the literal eyes

Or something to that effect

[crude cape]

then you must have -some- minds eye, bc you know how an apple is shaped and can draw it right? or no, memory is different?
its pretty fascinating but i dont fully understand it. Like how can we be sure you don't have a minds eye, and its not just a failure in observed descriptions? Like one person who says they have a minds eye is over-describing their "mental image" and this makes someone go "oh i don't see that"

[gusty furnace]

so it IS testable

[whole oxide]

and yet the other guy talking here was claiming that using exclusively data of your own play is somehow better than using a wider sample ^^

[gusty furnace]

My memory is like a library

[crude cape]

ohh, ok, gotcha. So they can actually measure brain waves

and know

crazy

[gusty furnace]

A horribly disorganized one

but a library nonetheless

Pull out the "book"

"read" the description

put the "book" back

But I don't see anything

its just all words

[calm sapphire]

@haughty scarab

[gusty furnace]

So like, I know an apple is red, round, has four feet, two dimples - one top, one bottom, top dimple is filled with a stem

The flesh is yellow

the skin is red

But none of those are OBJECTS, just words

And I can draw from those descriptions

[cyan notch]

how do u remember faces

[teal needle]

When asked to picture a red cube if i close my eyes i see red and 3 visible edges of a cube. Trying to draw what i see with my minds eye is an exercise in frustration though - to draw anything well i have to use technique

[gusty furnace]

Instinct

[crude cape]

but if you close your eyes and try to trace the image of an apple in the darkness, are you able to? even if you don't "see" the apple, can you imagine drawing the shape/outline of it in your head?

[gusty furnace]

Nope

[gusty furnace]

Instinct. Since my response wasn't fast enough. I just "know" the face.

But its not like its physically catalogued in my brain as a picture

[blazing echo]

Maybe you've just lost conscious control of your mind's eye but still passively draw from it? I'm no neurobiologist tho. This topic did remind me of an article about ppl with no inner monologue tho

[gusty furnace]

or even a rough representation of a picture

Makes it hard to remember things like eye color or the shape of lips though, even if I'll recognize them immediately in person

Since its just a vague impression

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[blazing echo]

My partner is 'face blind' she draws identity from a whole host of non face clues.

[teal needle]

Inner monologue is optional for me but also more comfortable. I have to focus to think without using words but often need to because it's way faster

[gusty furnace]

my inner monologue has a really annoying lisp

[teal needle]

I read fiction really slowly because I'm basically translating everything into a movie in my head

[gusty furnace]

I used to have one as a kid

I fixed it

but not in my brain

Really fuckin annoying

[teal needle]

Now that's fascinating

[gusty furnace]

When I think, I activate all the same nerves in my tongue

without moving it

But I can definitely FEEL my tongue trying to move

and that's the instinctual response, the formation of the lisp

painge

[cyan notch]

so would trying to remember an attractive woman whom u only got a glance at be hard?

[gusty furnace]

I'll remember her ass

Everything else is gone with the wind until I see her again

then it comes back like a freight train in person

[cyan notch]

damn

[gusty furnace]

Made me amazing at customer service

I never forgot a customer

[cyan notch]

OH YEA THE CHICK WITH THE NICE ASS

[gusty furnace]

Help a guy pick out a cabinet

[blazing echo]

This whole convo is fascinating

[gusty furnace]

And I greet him 6 months later like zero days passed by

I was good at commission even if I hated scamming the shit out of people

No no, you TOTALLY want this cabinet paint thats 5x as expensive

(And the same cost to manufacture)

[calm sapphire]

leme guess, 60 yr old man?

[cyan notch]

i wonder if its a skill you can learn to have mental pictures

[gusty furnace]

Naw

I got a lot of 30 somethings

moving into their dream home

looking for budget kitchen options

You know, doing all the HARD house labor before the wifey pops out the gloop of mass we call "babies"

[teal needle]

See this is why i avoid contractors whenever i can, and supply the materials when i do

[gusty furnace]

I do not envy women

All I have to do is stand up and piss

[teal needle]

It's also why im sore af this week from digging up my yard

[gusty furnace]

my backyard looks like a prairie

it was way too hot this spring and summer to do any real yard work

So I just kept up the front yard

[teal needle]

My back yard was overgrown when i moved in two years ago, finally going to tame that shit and build a deck and garden

[blazing echo]

I'm a convert to the sit down pee. Your life cannot be so busy you can't spare five mins for a sit down and phone check

[calm sapphire]

Do yall feel like Trauma sometimes won't stagger the ranged dregs / ranged shooters as they just simply walk through your circle of death

[gusty furnace]

I piss in like 30 seconds

its really not a big deal

[blazing echo]

Same, take 5 anyway

[thorn cedar]

After my kidney stone I always sit down and piss.

[gusty furnace]

now at work

Sit down every time

[teal needle]

Hit reg stinks since crosplay patch for me. Not unique to trauma for me tho

[olive ember]

Look

Trust in the 10/4

[crude cape]

all mammals do, no matter their size. Interesting fact. Even an elephant. All mammals take -roughly- a similar amount of time to drain their bladder.
Has to do with how bladders grow, and the pressure to stream to liquid ratio is made the same so they 'work' roughly identically no matter the size of the mammal

[olive ember]

The game will be fixed

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

The game will be perfect

200 fps

[gusty furnace]

its fatshark

[calm sapphire]

me when I swear on my life that I had pushed a pox burster coming from a mile away

[olive ember]

Zero server issues

[gusty furnace]

we all know that isn't gonna be true

[crude cape]

press 5 to subscribe to animal bladder facts

[olive ember]

128 tick for maximum hit reg

Everyone will forget l4d2

[cyan notch]

4/10

[olive ember]

Darktide will be new horde shooters

[teal needle]

Really sucks when i non-reg a thunder hammer or something

[olive ember]

SMH

[crude cape]

[teal needle]

Absolute vibe killer

[calm sapphire]

I think what annoys me the most is when the audio cues doesn't work when u have so many things going on

[crude cape]

I had 3 phantom hits IN A ROW on a boss last night using Thammer

i was so mad lol

[gusty furnace]

Power Maul, Crusher, Thunder Hammer, hell even the power sword

Its all fucked

hitreg is big ass

and fatshark has done nothing to address it

[crude cape]

drives me crazy ya

might be my most annoying 'game issue' rght now

[gusty furnace]

I'm pretty sure my 0/40 with women is a better percentage than my hitreg in Darktide

[zinc phoenix]

i mean... id actually agree with that. if you want to know what weapons are best for you, your own play is the chief resource on that front. idc if someone says void is bad, i like big balls and i cannot lie

[cyan notch]

it will be magically fixed in the patch

[gusty furnace]

yeah, because fatshark will have to restart the servers

So the memory leak will go away

and then it'll slowly creep back

[cyan notch]

dsrktide 2 wont have these issues

[whole oxide]

but we're talking about sharing data, if its only personal to you then all data is worthless

[teal needle]

That actually does make sense, but only if it's just you looking at just your own data

[calm sapphire]

hmm have they shipped over the vt2 veteran devs to darktide yet

literally vt2 gets more content than darktide

[whole oxide]

like, whats the point of doing any kind of statistics of comparisons, if you're just gonna say "well, for me personally, the devil-claw is better than the illisi"

[calm sapphire]

"shield is the best wep hands down

I could care less if someone says it dog shit!!!"

[teal needle]

I mean, if you want to make that argument there's nothing wrong with that. This is a discord we're here to shout into the void

But obvs that data is useless trying to compare performance by any standards approaching objectivity

[fresh reef]

I have reached peak stupid

[teal needle]

Love blood fountains

[whole oxide]

ehhh, it just seems like alot of cope to me to say "well, there's all this data, but it has 1% error-bars on it because of other factors, therefore I'm going to dismiss all of it, and definitely not because it says my favourite is D-tier"

[cyan notch]

wheres the data tho

[teal needle]

Lol well, the data we have availabile does have much, much more than 1% margin of error

And I'm one of the people arguing its not useless

[cyan notch]

|| spoiler there is no data ||

[whole oxide]

sure, but my point is that its not 100% error-bars

[teal needle]

Also technically true, we don't have data just poorly categorized information

Of questionable provenance

But yes hopefully the reddit list inspires people to collect similar data sets. And actually post raw data

[whole oxide]

if he posted the spreadsheet, you'd say its made up

[cyan notch]

nope

[whole oxide]

if he posted videos of the games, you'd say he was cherrypicking

[teal needle]

Lazy straw man

[whole oxide]

they were literally saying this earlier

[cyan notch]

u cant say “theres all this data” when theres none

if u make claims u have to back them up

its a reasonable ask

[zinc phoenix]

if you want to make a serious statistical argument about the game you'd need a sample size in the hundreds of thousands or millions -- which the devs have. anything else is just preferences being expressed with bad math

[teal needle]

You do not need a sample nearly that big if you are taking proper samples. Which the reddit list creator acknowledges they can't

[cyan notch]

your results have to stand up to scrutiny it cant just be a “trust me bro revolver is best weapon for psyker”

[whole oxide]

what the stats show isn't strictly which weapon is best, but rather which players using weapon X are most successful

[teal needle]

Trying to present the info as tiers even with caveats was a bad idea too lol

[whole oxide]

revolver is clearly top not because its objectively best, but because only experienced players tend to run it

[light maple]

Flame staff is best because purging heretics in flame is optimum strategy and nothing can change my mind

[cyan notch]

how do u know? maybe he got lucky and won 2 games with revolver out of 2500

[whole oxide]

he said he discounted ones with too low sample-size, those are the ones rated "U"

[cyan notch]

yea and what is the bar for low sample size? 0? 1? nothing mentioned

no data again

[teal needle]

We don't know what qualifies as too low to reddit op, they didn't post methodology

And there's no raw set to check against

[harsh urchin]

wait so where is the data lol

[cyan notch]

|| there is none ||

[whole oxide]

i doubt that if you saw the full underlying dataset it would change any of the conclusions significantly, I have a hard time believing someone who went to all that effort just to lie

[light maple]

This was found on Reddit right

[cyan notch]

now this is the actual cope

[harsh urchin]

hey man, maybe the data would be good, maybe the data wouldn't be good

[whole oxide]

yes, literally everything posted on reddit is untrue

[teal needle]

They don't need to lie to misrepresent statistical information, real statisticians so it all the time

It's what peer review is for!

[harsh urchin]

well yes this is true. most things posted on reddit are just bullshit lol

i agree with that

[cyan notch]

sometimes they even make mistakes in their own analysis

[whole oxide]

hey, i'd like to see the underlying data too, but the fact that its been summarised doesn't mean its all 100% meaningless, it just means its not as precise as you'd like

[harsh urchin]

it does because there's no data

summarize = i made this shit up

[cyan notch]

it is meaningless if it doesnt have any supporting evidence

[harsh urchin]

if you post the data and THEN summarize it; then anybody can look at the data to cross reference it

[teal needle]

I agree with this. It's an anecdote to consider alongside other info. It's not enough info to say, though, that revolver psyker is best psyker or whatever

[whole oxide]

the summary is the evidence, they're posted in their tier-bands according to % winrate

[cyan notch]

that is not evidence

[light maple]

I did some data gathering. To summarize:
not quelling peril and exploding yourself into a group of enemies kills more than other methods

[harsh urchin]

that's not evidence lol

[teal needle]

Or even that it accurately reptesents revolver psyker win rate

[whole oxide]

how would posting 100 rows in a spreadsheet be any more or less evidence than a single sentence saying "X has Y% winrate" ?

[harsh urchin]

are you seriously asking

[whole oxide]

why would you trust the spreadsheet more?

[teal needle]

Because the sample size matters lmao, this is literally stats 101

[harsh urchin]

if actual evidence vs someone just making some shit up

[upper galleon]

well a spreadsheet matters

because he didn't post playrate

he only said playrate on some things

[harsh urchin]

because that takes more effort than just writing one line of some bullshit

maybe it's fabricated, who knows,

[upper galleon]

I highly doubt somoene would go through the effort to make that long of a post for a lie

[whole oxide]

if I count something 1000 times, and tell you the final total, is that any different to writing out each of those 1000 individually? its the same data, just represented differently

[harsh urchin]

but it's much more trustworthy than one line of bullshit

[harsh urchin]

absolutely lol

because i would rather count it myself than trust you

to count it

[upper galleon]

i think the author is an idiot

[light maple]

I mean without proof there’s literally nothing to state that it isn’t completely made up. At least making the logs public would’ve led to more credibility here

[whole oxide]

if you don't trust me to do the counting up to 1000 right, why would you trust me to correctly capture each of the 1000 rows?

[upper galleon]

and should've posted the data, but I also don't think anyone is that mentally unwell to write a fake tier list

[upper galleon]

because you can have a calculator

[cyan notch]

maybe its not even fabricated but what if he accidentally missed out 200 rows out of thr 2500? what if he looked at the wrong row? how can u know his conclusions are correct then

[upper galleon]

and add things up

[harsh urchin]

there may also be inconsistencies and correlations in the data that you skipped, that I care about

for example, if you only cared about counting things up, but I also care about a certain other data point( ie: date or team comp)

which is very valid as a concern

[cyan notch]

this is unfortunately pretty tame for reddit

[whole oxide]

but thats somethign different, that's not about trusting the summary, thats about doing different types of analysis

[harsh urchin]

i don't. that's the thing

[upper galleon]

he did post data on purge vs surge staff

[olive ember]

What are we arguing about now?

[upper galleon]

https://old.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/16sx4cg/in_depth_look_weapon_look_at_the_purgatus_vs/

not much better

[harsh urchin]

but that's the thing is that i trust raw data

[upper galleon]

data

[harsh urchin]

a bit more than someone's conclusions

[whole oxide]

in which case you wouldn't trust the underlying data either, so what difference does it make?

[upper galleon]

cause nothing starts an arguement like data or lack thereof

[harsh urchin]

i would potentially though

lol

[upper galleon]

oh shut up and leave dis alone

[olive ember]

I love data

[harsh urchin]

I would make my OWN judgments

[upper galleon]

I also want the raw numbers

[harsh urchin]

on the data

[olive ember]

I took one stats course so

I’m super qualified

[harsh urchin]

rather than listen to some idiot making conclusions that dont necessarily make sense

[upper galleon]

I don't think the list is an outright lie, only that it lacks context

[olive ember]

And from all my findings I can say that surge staff is S tier, everything else is dogshit

Thanks for listening

[whole oxide]

he's not drawing conclusions though, he's just aggregating the numbers

[olive ember]

Eh I saw the post and I’m taking it with a grain of salt

[whole oxide]

aggregating numbers = untrustworthy, the numbers used in the aggregation = trustworthy ?????

[hollow current]

nothing else deletes hordes quite like the surge staff

[upper galleon]

bit without the numbers

[teal needle]

Creating a tier list is literally drawing conclusions

[upper galleon]

he didn't post any of the numbers besides the difference in winrate from average

he did say some weapons had lower playrates

[olive ember]

Even if we assume everything he does is completely accurate, the conclusions he draw are just way off

[upper galleon]

^

[olive ember]

So it’s

Eh

[teal needle]

But again most importantly knowing sample rates is insanely important for attributing the value of information

[whole oxide]

if I told you the average temperature for last month, would you refuse to believe it until you saw a written record of each day's temperature?

[upper galleon]

not even way off, I'd say lacking context

[harsh urchin]

he is making conclusions though.

lol

what the fuck

[olive ember]

That’s not the same thing?

[harsh urchin]

are you smoking mate

[whole oxide]

"S: The weapon has a ~10% higher win rate than average.

A: The weapon has a ~5% higher win rate than average.

B: The weapon has an average win rate.

C: The weapon has ~5% lower win rate than average.

D: The weapon has ~10% lower win rate than average.

U: The weapon has insufficient data from low use rate."

[cyan notch]

even worse

[olive ember]

Saying the average temperature of a month, vs win rates of wte weapons and then what tier they go into

[whole oxide]

that's not making conclusions, that's just aggregating

[teal needle]

To get a little ad hoc here: yes, definitely, absolutely

[olive ember]

Are like different things

[upper galleon]

if mk3 hellbore had the same playrate as shredder and bolter

it would be way lower winrate

[harsh urchin]

yeah actually lol

[upper galleon]

that's not aggregating cause there is no way to peer review

do you know what peer reviewing is?

[whole oxide]

lol ofc

[upper galleon]

what if the moon was made off cheese

[olive ember]

Also it depends on what you said

[harsh urchin]

trust me bro

it's made of cheese

[whole oxide]

and if you'd seriously refuse to believe a simple stat like last month's average temperature, I don't think I believe you

[upper galleon]

stop putting words in people's mouths and using hypotheticals

[indigo portal]

What happening? Is someone using that dumb reddit post again for build advice?

[upper galleon]

it's cringe

[olive ember]

If you told me the average temperature in summer was 0

Yeah I’d question it

Same thing here

[whole oxide]

but

[olive ember]

Revolver S tier, Bolter D tier a bunch of discrepancies

[upper galleon]

No this is like saying the temperature is warmer or colder

[olive ember]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[upper galleon]

no numbers

[teal needle]

Uggghhhhh I've been forced to sound like you the last twenty minutes, please tag in

[whole oxide]

if i told you the temperature on the 1st was 0, on the 2nd was -1, on the 3rd was 1, etc, you'd believe that??

[harsh urchin]

if you told me the average temp was 20C, maybe i'd believe it, but if you told me the average was like -15C; then i would want to see proof LOL

[upper galleon]

LMAO

[olive ember]

I love Reddit

How dare you

I am supreme redditor

Got Reddit gold for ranting about darktide

[harsh urchin]

no, because it's hot as fuck where i live

[indigo portal]

idek who has what stance.

[harsh salmon]

im having toughness sustain issues on heresy any tips

[harsh urchin]

so i would say you're making shit up

[upper galleon]

Ok lets agree on something

[olive ember]

Uhhh what build wat weapons

[whole oxide]

exactly, seeing the row-level data wouldn't make you believe it more

[upper galleon]

stop using hypotheticals

don't entertain ragnar

[indigo portal]

It's fairly based on your weapons. What are you running?

[harsh urchin]

jesus christ you are so dumb

[upper galleon]

when he uses a hypothetical

[harsh urchin]

like low iq LOL

i'm done here

[harsh salmon]

let me grab a screenshot

[upper galleon]

easy there

[olive ember]

Kk

[upper galleon]

don't let someone drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

[indigo portal]

Insult spotted, opinion disregarded.

[olive ember]

You are dummy because you don’t like my surge staff

[cyan notch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/353762257651367936/1154059813697880094/image.png?ex=65143a74&is=6512e8f4&hm=9950e13da470dcb5f93ec19eede56f0a99260a58a9f222a21a2dfce89e773943&

[indigo portal]

https://tenor.com/view/blah-blah-blah-shut-up-bro-youre-weird-gif-3870054312860017558

[harsh salmon]

working on a better sword but my luck is bad

[upper galleon]

ahh darcy deleted the syndrome people tweet

you have really low cloud radius on purge

and you want burn at 76%

don't take on stack gain

take quietitude or warp absorption

[indigo portal]

So, Warp Absorption will give you way better Toughness is you're aggressive, Quietitude will be better for passive playstyles.

[teal needle]

If you weren't exaggerating before you think the info is useless. My stance is that the info is an anecdote that can be useful when added to a larger set but also needs to be more transparent. The other guy is arguing the info shows revolver psyker is best psyker and we don't need to see no stinking data

[upper galleon]

other than that you just need to grind and craft more

[indigo portal]

Essence Harvest is exclusively useful for Gunker, otherwise it doesn't offer much.

[whole oxide]

that wasn't at all what i was arguing, completely missed my point

[upper galleon]

your first target on sword is also really low

[whole oxide]

i explicitly said, multiple times, that its useful as an indication, but not 100% accurate

[harsh salmon]

should i run this guy instead?

[light maple]

Ah yes wonderful trait description

[upper galleon]

i think you just need to craft/find more blessings from melk shop

also don't play on malice, hover around malice for weekly missions and just jump into damnation

[upper galleon]

no you got pissy and used hypotheticals when dis wanted the raw data

[indigo portal]

Up to you. I would grind some blessings first, T3 and 4 stuff helps a ton. Trauma vs. Purgatus is a preferencial choice and heavily changes playstyle.

[harsh salmon]

alright fire staff it is

[indigo portal]

"also don't play on heresy*, hover around malice for weekly missions and just jump into damnation"

[upper galleon]

thank exhillious

[whole oxide]

huh? i said i want the raw data too. i just also said that its silly to totally 100% dismiss it if you can't see the underlying data

[upper galleon]

I mean, I think it is fair to dismiss it

[harsh salmon]

what does a good staff look like? in terms of perks and blessings

[upper galleon]

because the conclusions it gives will mislead inexperienced players

it shouldn't even be tiered

tbh

[olive ember]

Try feat build 3/1/1/1/1/2

[cyan notch]

i 99.85% dismiss it

[olive ember]

Or 2/1/1/1/1/2 you are probably using the weakest toughness feat rn

[fierce crest]

focused channel, warp nexus for flame staff

[teal needle]

It should also show sample size and not just say "i swear i adequately discounted undersampled data"

[fierce crest]

focused channel, warp flurry for others

[upper galleon]

like the data set makes sense for say, mk3 helbore on vet

we do know it's a high skill, low playrate weapon with great effectiveness in the right hands

[indigo portal]

The data is foundationless. It's purpose is completely "this is neat data for popcorn viewing". It has a giant chunk of disclaimers saying as much, just lacks a TL;DR. Using that data for your own benefit will not directly influence your win rates, again because of the whole foundationless issue.

[upper galleon]

and it's mechanics will drive people off into other weapons like plasma

but kanty shotgun for vet?

yea that isn't some hidden meta

[teal needle]

Information not data, to be that guy

[upper galleon]

exactly, If there was a raw data google excel i'd be down

OP just posted winrate variance and dipped

[whole oxide]

do you think the winrate numbers would change if you saw the excel?

[harsh urchin]

this-
I think it's pretty fair to dismiss claims when there is nothing but anecdotal evidence to back the claims

[fierce crest]

whats a good gunpsyk build, preferably with any autogun or lasgun

[indigo portal]

I suppose it could be either. I view it as the equivalent to a research paper, and because there probably is data that was collected to determine the numbers I see it as data, but it's reasonable to say that because it lacks the source data it's simply just "information".

[upper galleon]

what the fuck

like god damn stop saying stupid shit it's annoying me

I want the context behind them, the playrates, the actual winrates, not just the variance.

[teal needle]

Eh, i say if they don't present data there's no data to discuss. Except to discuss the absence of

[cyan notch]

hard to say, id probably have to see the excel sheet to tell

[harsh urchin]

No. I think if there was real data; I would think harder about whether to dismiss the data; maybe like 60% chance for me to dismiss and 40% to accept; compared to when there is no data, it's automatically 100% dismiss the claims as bullshit

[languid tusk]

fellow psykers, help me solve this problem. while crab walking all over the place I can't see incoming pox hounds

how do you not get hounded while crab walking around the map ?