zealot-class

[acoustic dune]

have a use for wound curio

other then that

idk

[stone fern]

id unironically use lumis talent guide for rebalancing

[acoustic dune]

rip lumi

the furry with be missed

[stone fern]

not by me

he was a big NOOB

[mint brook]

Whos guide? Can you link me to it?

[misty ravine]

Martyrdom can be taken without Martyr's Purpose (mediocre CDR on taking health damage)

[stone fern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1328770045920280596/image.png?ex=67d8fd4a&is=67d7abca&hm=dac20ce542c63d0027b47cc77fb18256f8a29dd97cf208918759cf6f9924ffed&

[stone fern]

it should be taken without it

[mint brook]

Oh that

Why rip?

Did the man die?

[acoustic dune]

he died in our heart

(he got banned)

i still havent finished his drawing

[mint brook]

Banned? Yikes

What did the man do, usually takes a lot to get banned here

[misty ravine]

It usually is, unless someone Doesn't Know

[acoustic dune]

made too much enemy

heres the last piece i made for him

(i still havent fnished it)

[stone fern]

now draw the emperor rejecting his ban appeal

[mint brook]

Damn, you should

[acoustic dune]

https://tenor.com/view/rogal-dorn-no-gif-26277760

[acoustic dune]

no...

i should continue the choas waifu line up

[stone fern]

post

[acoustic dune]

i post it arleady

[mint brook]

But what do you guys think of the new shroudfield?

[acoustic dune]

what new shroudfield?

[stone fern]

peak

[mint brook]

Idea of mine

[acoustic dune]

i have one more not safe for work

if you want i cant dm it to ya

[stone fern]

whats on top of tzzenches head

[acoustic dune]

best pieve ill ever do

[acoustic dune]

the DAMN crow

[stone fern]

ah

[acoustic dune]

also gotta finish this

[bitter anvil]

@frosty herald

[rough galleon]

why did you post normal android 17

[bitter anvil]

That’s looks slaytified android 17

[acoustic dune]

becaause

which remind me

i need to put a boba tea in tehre as well

[clever swan]

took my ban appeal 10 days to get appealed so if lumii instantly sent their ban appeal then it's not looking good for their prospects (it's been >10 days)

[acoustic dune]

Mine was also a week

[mint brook]

Here is my first conplete shroudfield rework mock up

[signal spoke]

[magic basin]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-devil-devilcat-catdevil-catears-gif-26353341

[ornate bone]

A quick run before going out

Malice if someone is asking

I still need to do one on damnation

[mint brook]

Yall think the idea is too much or too weak?

[ornate bone]

Hmmm with thoughn3ss recovery

[acoustic dune]

I mean it's just that psycher warp generator

Which I am pk with

How ever

I would perfer if it was like krill elite to get token

And you activate it and you lose token for every second

The more token you have

The more multiplier you have

[mint brook]

Death cult assassins are more about death in general, which are something akin to a dance performer almost

I think rogue trader has an amazing depiction of a death cultist

[acoustic dune]

It's the clown

It's the elf clown

[mint brook]

Nono, thats harlequins

[ornate bone]

I was able to use shards for a long time aon this psyker Abillity when you are fast enough to "reload" warp

[misty helm]

my beloved

[mint brook]

Kibellah was her name… right?

[misty helm]

(her hair does not look that good ingame )

yes

[mint brook]

In general, this is what dca are

Highly agile and deadly

They cant take damage super well but if they get hit they sometimes hurt you back even harder

Hitting them is the main issue

[misty helm]

questionably sane and just barely not heretical

[mint brook]

That too yes

I thought of for wxample sacrificing health for significant bonuses

Like the right tree should be the “fuck it we ball” tree

What if we made shroudfield instead a leap?

Like a dash, but you genuinely leap over enemies sorta like bardin slayer

[carmine falcon]

how will this translate to gamepaly

[mint brook]

Look at bardin

[ornate bone]

Leap of faith

[mint brook]

Thats how

[carmine falcon]

who's bardin

[mint brook]

You didnt play vermintide?

[carmine falcon]

nope

[mint brook]

https://tenor.com/view/bardin-vermintide-2-warhammer-vermintide-2-warhammer-vermintide-warhammer-gif-9609153514377397223

[carmine falcon]

i started with unlocked and loaded and this is my first tide game

lemme look him up actually

[mint brook]

That little dwarf might as well be the reason frogger exists

[carmine falcon]

ok i see what you mean https://youtube.com/shorts/l5mVGHZqwus?si=ab8gj0JWGv9MumXw lmao

[mint brook]

The guy can jump around so much it makes FoTf look immobile

[carmine falcon]

looks fun

i wish jumping was more of a thing in this game in general

u literally never need to jump

[mint brook]

It could be with DCA

Aka right tree

It is the one class where it makes sense

[misty nova]

Griiiimniiiir

🗣️

https://youtu.be/0Tto6VsibZU?si=wFgvl9nnIXmd-pvs

[carmine falcon]

damn i love this guy

angry dwarfs

[mint brook]

As said, i think making right tree the most agile and yet deadly class is a fun idea

What about a node that lets you deflect range attacks while blocking?

Sounds cool?

[misty nova]

Kinda weird for angry Normal human

[fleet zealot]

Yea

And weapon type

[mint brook]

Thoguht it fitting since death cult assassins, but i can concede that

Compared to FTOF, how is this?

Duration is 10s, my mistake

[ornate bone]

thats easy lighsaber

[fleet zealot]

why do both need to be an instant mobility tool

[obtuse garnet]

WOAHHH

[mint brook]

It sorta just fits to right tree

[obtuse garnet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779424458238459946/1335340649284636712/tenor_20.gif

mm interesting

[mint brook]

I do not know why the preacher got amobility tool but not dca

It makes very little sense honestly

[fleet zealot]

stealth lets you go behind enemies otherwise they pivot near instantly

[ornate bone]

I want a hunter with a wolf character ( traps and pet command)

[mint brook]

They DO have a small window where you can backstab them after their attack

But the right teee is in general is meanth to be a tree very strong, but only in the hands of a great player

High skill ceiling basically

Like unironically, left tree is a better death cult asssassin than right tree

Duellist would be straight up something a death cultist is about

[ornate bone]

boutyhunter also would be cool

[tranquil owl]

Your changes to right tree i like

[mint brook]

I mean, yes, but i dont do tree extensions personally

[fleet zealot]

my suggestion over yours

[mint brook]

It aint even half of it

[fleet zealot]

just give ways to refresh stealth

or give threat drop like vet

[tranquil owl]

Does definitely remind me some of how assassin could be played in Martyr already

[mint brook]

I thought of thay, chose against it

[tranquil owl]

Not line for line of course, and not saying Martyr is the best example

[fleet zealot]

Assassin is Martyr is officio assassinorum

[tranquil owl]

Yeah

[mint brook]

Intentional

[fleet zealot]

death cult are a part of the ecclesiarchy/cults of the emperor

[mint brook]

It is the best reference we have

[tranquil owl]

Yeah thats why i had to add my last bit cause i knew it was coming

[mint brook]

Since the datamine calls right tree death cult assassins, i just think there is sorely missed exploration

[tranquil owl]

A leap with shroudfield would be nutty, would also allow even more melee focus over ranged me thinks

[mint brook]

The stealth is gone

[tranquil owl]

Yee

[mint brook]

Basically, i want death cultist assassin to be pure skill

The space where great players really get to flex their skills

[tranquil owl]

Yeah im trying to get better at the movement, im dodging a lot better now, defending, perfect blocking, but i feel like my input layout could use work

Ps5

Sometimes the buttons im trying to push feel like they're in an awkward place from each other

[ornate bone]

He just like me

[mint brook]

Does that mean no good?

Cause of the name?

[ornate bone]

Haha na you could say I have the aura of a loner

[mint brook]

Oh okay

Also

The blades are gonna get a change

[fleet zealot]

it's flat ferret monday

[placid fiber]

Onion bro!

[clever swan]

anyone ever watch an anime/anything and then hear a voice actor who you know died recently and it gets you to slightly tear up? sadge

[placid fiber]

I haven't, but, that's understandable how it could do that

[misty ravine]

TF2 Soldier

[tranquil owl]

Going to become an increasingly common occurance

Especially after the past couple of deaths

[clever swan]

it's even worse when they're not that old, like 60 or 50s

[mint brook]

What do we think?

Old keystone add-ons are gone

[tranquil owl]

That would be fun to play around with

[heady rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1204540553971372072/1337110896920756296/RDT_20241118_2201016645429803181321652-1.gif

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710505734282018889/1351201195431034900/RDT_20241118_2201016645429803181321652-1.gif

[tranquil owl]

🙀

[placid fiber]

[clever swan]

pog Chinese food, all authentic

[placid fiber]

meat is meat

[acoustic dune]

https://tenor.com/view/nowhed-containment-containmentbreach-cat-stuck-gif-25842568

[placid fiber]

Who let the cat out~

[slate notch]

Is bloodletter + rampage good for the evis?

[placid fiber]

no

[slate notch]

I wan't to give it a try, one of the weapons I always pass, so...

[tranquil owl]

Is dog commonly eaten anywhere anymore?

[clever swan]

probably China

[placid fiber]

for the mk15 it is rampage + shred/bloodthirsty for the blessings

[tranquil owl]

I know they used to eat dog in Vietnam but pretty sure that started originally cause of the sheer ammount of wild/stray dogs running around

[slate notch]

will give bloodthirsty a try over shred then

[acoustic dune]

thats racist
they eat rock

get your fax right

[clever swan]

but how common it really is I couldn't tell ya. I assume it's not really that common, I would presume the more westernized or technology centric Chinese people would be reticent to eat dogs

[acoustic dune]

also ice

[misty ravine]

Instinctively I feel like Martyrdom would be the thematic keystone for Death Cultist, especially if it's meant to be high risk/high reward.

Preacher would be something like Blazing Piety (at least in its current form, in which it's the only one that's directly affected by the actions of nearby allies and can optionally buff them too) leaving the other one (Crusader? Never paid much attention to those subtree names) for Inexorable Judgement (a low-effort, high-uptime, all-round self-buff)

[placid fiber]

with bloodthirsty you can chain kill crushers in 1 rev with +25% carapace

[mint brook]

True, but they arent keen on getting hurt themselves

[slate notch]

Is it worth going flak+carapace then?

[acoustic dune]

rat meat
dont forget about rat meat

rat meat abll

[mint brook]

So while the base idea of martyrdome is fine, the execution wouldnt fit

[placid fiber]

Yes, iirc

[clever swan]

[tranquil owl]

Poor Remy

[hushed knoll]

Hi did you get your pc fixed

[acoustic dune]

yes and no

i needd to do a cold reset when i want to use bluetooth

[tawdry leaf]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1326404073204875353/1341962457970769930/go_my_centurion.gif?=

[fleet zealot]

the bleed is useless

either you are hitting 16 or not

[hushed knoll]

What’s a cold reset?

[acoustic dune]

unplug from power shutdown and wait for 10 min or so

[open echo]

i am so confused what this is

[tranquil owl]

Its Team Rocket blasting off again

[mint brook]

Is bleed THAT inconsequential?

[mint brook]

Working on zealot talent rework

[fleet zealot]

yes

[acoustic dune]

when your companion is in meed of pet pet but yu are out of country

[fleet zealot]

if you are playing around bleed, you are gonna have 16 stacks easily there isn't any need for stacking bleed more if the cap is 16 and flesh tearer is 8 and scourge is 2

and off other builds, tehy aren't going bleed

[copper hawk]

Yes

[fleet zealot]

I think you should take more opinions from zealot mains

the politiest way to say it

[copper hawk]

They dont do much damage at all period

Except to bosses and that's cus of dot

[acoustic dune]

i have a evil knife that let you do a maximum of 100 crit chance

its evil

[copper hawk]

It's by far the weakest dot

[fleet zealot]

like changing shroudfield to a leap, why not just give it more shade like tools,

[copper hawk]

Bleed ONLY exists to make Zealot's crit centric build work

Think of bleed for Zeal like Batter for Ogryn

[open echo]

also for mkx relic blade, is elites or cara a better pick for bps, been messing around

[copper hawk]

The ends are different, means are the same

[acoustic dune]

its crazy how cancerous that shit is

[copper hawk]

Bleed is to proc shit

That's it

[open echo]

reliuc is silly

[copper hawk]

Armored enemies are resistant to it

[fleet zealot]

like why not

[copper hawk]

Scourge also doesnt proc if an enemy dies in one hit soooo

[clever swan]

interesting. it's highly unlikely you have to wait that long if you unplug the psu, have it switched on, and then hold the power button down (it obv can't turn on but it like drains the psu or something)

[fleet zealot]

or

cloak of pain

[copper hawk]

Tbh i wish they just got rid of shroud

[fleet zealot]

i may not respect stealth players but

it's how it is

[acoustic dune]

its recommended 30 sec

but i perfer making sure

[fleet zealot]

death cultist with shroudfield is fine

[tranquil owl]

So wait, how often are you actually getting the bleed you need for the proc on tougher enemies

[copper hawk]

Replace it w like a mix between zealot from vt2 and like a weaker scriers

Woth nodes being like crit, tdr while ulted, dmg, etc

Node locking the others out

Enemies hit refresh node like vt2 zeal or something idk

[fleet zealot]

like i really think

[copper hawk]

Cloak that drops aggro is stupid for the frontline attack class

[fleet zealot]

you should look at the vt2 shade innates and talents

[open echo]

the rashad is so nice to use :3

[fleet zealot]

that's not how the subclass system is

it isn't 3 version of frontliner

just like how vet is 3 shooty backliners

[copper hawk]

The other two are lol

In darktide

[fleet zealot]

banisher is terrible thematically

preacher is yes

[copper hawk]

Same w Keril

Im vt2

4 backliners 1 frontliner

Best frontliner in the game

Uh in terms of survivability

Same w dtide

It's not the ults that determine the role, it's the foundational talents at the top that do

All our shit only procs when ur close to enemies

Dodging them in melee, hitting them w melee attacks, being around them

[opaque island]

when are you gonna stop eating shrimps with the wimps, and come feast with the beast?

[copper hawk]

Our sustain fundamentally is designed around being around enemies at the frontline

[mint brook]

What exactly makes shroudfield look terrible compared to fotf?

[copper hawk]

Imagine, for a moment, if Ogryn, with his melee sustain, had instead of Taunt an ult that cloaked him

It's just less incongruent due to the fact ogryn had a functioning backline option

[fleet zealot]

that's why shroudfield is a short duration

vs infilitrate (vet stealth)

we nerf cdr, shroudfield will be fine on a frontliner

[fleet zealot]

less flexibility, all eggs in one basket, easy to use in a way that hurts the team IE aggro dumping

fotf has mobility, invuln while charging, rending and crit boosted attack, and 20% attack speed boost for 10 seconds

vs shroudfield all it's bonuses are for a single hit

and to regen toughness with it you need an extension node vs fotf giving 50% baseline

like cica i get it i am not a stealth fan

but stealth is always going to exist

i really think toning down cdr will be a massive help to making shroud healthy

and less spammable

[mint brook]

What if we made shroudfield a bit longer lasting in terms of a buff after shroudfield

[open echo]

remember shroudfeild cancel

that was funny

[fleet zealot]

That’s what i was saying about extension node options

[misty nova]

Heretical eyes vs dude sprinting after activation

[fleet zealot]

Options that encourage staying in the thick of it

[acoustic dune]

ok hear me out

what if shroudfield

make the enemy run instead

out of fear

[grizzled aspen]

There's no way to make stealth "healthy."

The key thing people seem to forget when thinking about death cult is that they don't necessarily need to kill their targets from stealth, the target just needs to die.

[open echo]

i was here when it discovered :3

it was

something

[grizzled aspen]

Zealout should have a duration ability, sort of like how scriers or exe stance works, focusing on exponentially increasing melee lethality to replace shroudfield.

[open echo]

the voiceline spam lmao

[plucky gate]

The reality is that stealth assassin is a popular playstyle and they're not gonna get rid of shroud unless they just add another class with that playstyle

[copper hawk]

Just look at ur hotbar

If ur using weapons that kill things instantly itll really only proc on bosses

Maaaaaybe cara

[grizzled aspen]

Being popular does not mean it is healthy.

[plucky gate]

doesn't matter if it's healthy. they won't do it

[grizzled aspen]

Fire bullets pbb is extremely popular in live right now due to it stacking to 32 stacks on its own, but it is extremely unhealthy. (hence why it's being changed)

They could absolutely scrap shroudfield for something that fits a horde game like this more.

[plucky gate]

They won't delete a common video game archtype from the game entirely

[grizzled aspen]

If you want stealth that badly then go play vet lol.

Zealout absolutely does not need stealth, and there's no way to flavor it to make it viable compared to chastise.

It would be way more fitting to have a duration style ability to replace it.

[plucky gate]

vet stealth doesn't really fit the "assassin" gameplay that well, although if they add like a guaranteed crit like shroud does, maybe it could

[grizzled aspen]

"Assassin" gameplay doesn't exist to start with.

The only thing remotely "assassin" esque about right side is backstab talents, and that just means you do more damage to the bulwark that is trying to touch the psyker.

Everything else is about moving around your opponents, staggering them, or taking less damage.

Like I get what you're playing at, but you are leaning way too heavily into the assassin part of death cult.

Yes, they are assassins. No, they do not do everything from stealth. They will straight up show themselves and fucking gut you while they look you in the eyes and watch you die.

[plucky gate]

I'm not even specifically talking about zealot.
I don't know what death cult is.
I'm saying stealth in general has to exist for the assassin fantasy

it can stay in the form of vet, sure

[fleet zealot]

You can literally just borrow from shade lol

To add more depth to shroud

Fotf is also massively overtuned

[violet hornet]

Shroudfield would make more sense if the duration was short and the enemies with aggro on someone using it would be momentarily confused by it for the short duration before resuming aggro after it ends

[fleet zealot]

Yea

[grizzled aspen]

Long story short, death cult is more "I want this guy dead, I dont care how you do it, make it happen" than it is "kill from shadows."

[fleet zealot]

Not as much and big aoe as vet stealth

[plucky gate]

like I already said, it can exist in a other class if they remove it from zealot

but it has to exist somewhere

[fleet zealot]

It’s specifically death cult assassin

So what i’m thinking is divergent stealth nodes

[violet hornet]

It'd keep the current flavor and identity, eliminate the aggro dumping behavior and leaning on staying in stealth for long periods, and could make for faster more engaging gameplay if they balanced it by giving it shorter cool down

[fleet zealot]

So there is flexibility

[grizzled aspen]

You do know "assassin" is just a noun in this context, right?

[plucky gate]

i don't care enough about warhammer lore to care if stealth is on zealot, or vet, or some new class. I'm just saying as unhealthy as stealth is, it's going to be somewhere in the game

[fleet zealot]

I dont think stealth longer is good

[violet hornet]

Same

[fleet zealot]

The uptime is already too high with cdr

[grizzled aspen]

That's just what you refer to someone carrying out orders from the death cult as.

They are an "assassin."

[fleet zealot]

Any boosts to duration should be earned like how Shade does

Either chaining weaker stealth with less bonuses for chain killing elites/specials or a double backstab for nuking bosses and high tier elites

[fleet zealot]

They also have a shroudfield

[violet hornet]

I wouldn't mind seeing a 2 second duration shroudfield that gives you a leap / big speed boost so you can close gap on an elite or specialist, with a 30-60 second cool down, but gives a big chunk back or allows a free recast when you kill an elite/ special target

[grizzled aspen]

You are missing the point entirely.

[fleet zealot]

They very much are a half assassin half agile frontliner from their talents and that’s fine

[violet hornet]

That way you could run around stabbing all the elites and specials but would lose stealth after and need to kill horde traditionally instead of disengaging with stealth

[fleet zealot]

Loner is more harmful than stealth baseline anyways

[plucky gate]

shade refreshes being in this game would be fun

[violet hornet]

See this is cool why can't we do this

[grizzled aspen]

These are all horrible ideas. Yall do not know what you are asking for.

[fleet zealot]

Stealth is fine, shroudfield is fine

[fleet zealot]

Lol i know exactly what I’m asking for

[grizzled aspen]

You want a zealout to be perma invis with ds4?

Because that's what you'd be getting.

[fleet zealot]

Ds4 needs a nerf

[grizzled aspen]

Ok, then theyll use knife, and still be perma invis.

[violet hornet]

I've played enough games to know what fun stealth mechanics looks like in combination with hectic fights with other kits

[fleet zealot]

Shade refresh on special/elite didn’t give the ability bonuses

Lol

[plucky gate]

fatshark could cap it if it turned into a problem anyways

[fleet zealot]

We shouldn’t have fun and interesting mechanics added cause there is op things

We already are practically perma invis

[plucky gate]

cap it to 3 activations and it would still be pretty fun to play with

maybe 2

[violet hornet]

Yeah this would just be adding a criteria where you need to continuously kill to maintain stealth for any period

[fleet zealot]

If someone wants to be perma invis they have to earn it and i think that’s fine if the challenge matches the reward

Chainkilling talent was also nerfed to only 1 second of refresh per kill

In vt2

[grizzled aspen]

You do not understand what you are asking for with permanently having someone be invisible.

[fleet zealot]

But i guess some people just want shroudfield to be a leap

[violet hornet]

No one wants that

[plucky gate]

cap it so it's not permanent

problem solved

[fleet zealot]

I literally play infiltrate vet

[plucky gate]

they kill 2 extra bulwarks per stealth

[fleet zealot]

I play everything

[plucky gate]

2 extra seconds of stealth

[fleet zealot]

Shade handmaiden infiltrate vet

[fleet zealot]

Yes and with a short base duration

[grizzled aspen]

You should be beaten with hammers, methinks.

[fleet zealot]

You aren’t encouraged to run off from your team

[fleet zealot]

You should be lit on fire with a lighter mr frog you don’t belong here

/joke

[plucky gate]

like i also think permanent uptime would be a problem
but this is a solvable problem

[fleet zealot]

It’s a reference

[plucky gate]

just make it not infinite

[grizzled aspen]

Smiling friends?

[fleet zealot]

The problem is perma uptime is already a problem

[fleet zealot]

https://youtu.be/WFg0vTeXhWs?si=_--0FLtWTnRGMnCn

[grizzled aspen]

Oh right that guy.

Anyway.

[fleet zealot]

And we aren’t advocating for no nerfs either

It is easily assumed and been said many times cdr and weapons are overtuned

[grizzled aspen]

Stealth should be a vet exclusive and we should get a duration style ability to replace shroudfield, involving duration extension based on kills, and stacking up on mostly melee benefits with slight ranged benefits.

[fleet zealot]

Like the thought of replacing shroudfield with a fuckin leap makes me wanna vomit

Ahh yes, leap, charge, or rub a holy symbol for several seconds

[grizzled aspen]

There are only 2 cdr choices in the game that are overtuned at this point, the rest are either fine or quite weak.

Those being tactical awareness and iod.

[fleet zealot]

Psyker

[grizzled aspen]

Psyk aura is fine.

[fleet zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/john-travolta-well-where-is-it-looking-for-something-gif-5291661

[fleet zealot]

Psyk aura is fine

[grizzled aspen]

Yes.

It's fine.

[fleet zealot]

The non aura node with aura in it’s name isn’t

Lol

[plucky gate]

idk if i'd call it "fine"

[fleet zealot]

People are literally dodging taking assail for it

[grizzled aspen]

Yeah the name could be changed but the effect is what Im talking about.

[fleet zealot]

The aura “aura” is fine

[plucky gate]

it's pretty broken

[grizzled aspen]

It's really not.

[fleet zealot]

The node that has aura in it’s name is ridic broken

[grizzled aspen]

That's like saying live bruiser is broken.

[fleet zealot]

But anything that scales of density is that’s why IoD and ogryn cdr are being put on duration cdr speed buffs

[grizzled aspen]

Update bruiser is gonna be even better.

[fleet zealot]

That just refresh

But IoD is overtuned cause fatshark is pandering to never nerf always buff zoomers

[grizzled aspen]

Again, it's not broken.

Live bruiser is literally 1% difference.

[fleet zealot]

Who need to spam their ability every 10 seconds

[fleet zealot]

Lol

Now you are just being contrarian

[grizzled aspen]

Psyk aura is 5%, live bruiser is 4%.

[plucky gate]

i mean, look at the cooldown timer and realize that it's also happening to the whole party
this is a little past "fine"

[grizzled aspen]

No, I'm doing this thing called being right.

It happens pretty often.

[fleet zealot]

Lol lmao

[grizzled aspen]

Psyk aura is a fine node.

[fleet zealot]

Frog thinks this is healthy

[grizzled aspen]

The only reason it gets stupid is stuff like waves of dogs.

And using trauma staff.

[fleet zealot]

Or any higher difficulty where density scales up

With infinite cleave options that excel at killing that density

Not a problem

[grizzled aspen]

And ogryn can do the same thing right now with a pickaxe cleaving 3 maulers and 2shotting them. :)

Live bruiser, again, is literally a 1% difference.

[fleet zealot]

Yea and?

[grizzled aspen]

So do you think live bruiser is broken?

Because that would definitely be a take of all time.

[fleet zealot]

This is the dumbest gocha ever

[grizzled aspen]

This looks less like psyk aura being super good and more like your team sucks at killing basic shotgunners.

[plucky gate]

bruiser only applies to the ogryn
psyker's applies to the whole party

[fleet zealot]

Like one of your worst of all time takes

Im dropping this

Bruiser is just you and only elites

Psykinetic’s is your entire party specialist and elites

[grizzled aspen]

Do you ever take psyk aura for your teammates?

[fleet zealot]

Your gotcha with bruiser is fucking stupid

[grizzled aspen]

No. You don't. You take it for you.

[fleet zealot]

That’s not the point

[grizzled aspen]

That absolutely is part of the point here.

[plucky gate]

But it's also full resetting the cooldown for your teammates

[fleet zealot]

It’s the effective cdr lol

[grizzled aspen]

Psyk aura feeds into itself just as badly as bruiser does.

[fleet zealot]

It’s over 4 players lol

No it doesn’t bruiser doesn’t work on specialists

And only gives 4%

[grizzled aspen]

Not one psyker on this planet takes psyk aura for their teammates outside of havocs.

[fleet zealot]

spread between all players psykinetic is 20% total for elite and specials

Then why is it fine

Lol

[plucky gate]

and the fact that it's working on teammates makes me feel a bit like i'm being selfish when i'm not taking it
so yes it working on teammates is part of the reason

[fleet zealot]

Then we should just take the teammate sharing off

[grizzled aspen]

Because 5% per kill isn't bad?

[plucky gate]

if i drop PA for assail, it feels really selfish

[fleet zealot]

Since no one takes it for that

[acoustic dune]

ok i am in a drawing mood

[fleet zealot]

There you go frog

You solved it

[acoustic dune]

what should i do

should i finish yamato

or draw smth fun

[fleet zealot]

Remove giving teammates the cdr and it will be fine

[plucky gate]

honestly yeah just turn off or nerf the teammate share

[fleet zealot]

Cause no one takes it for that anyways

[grizzled aspen]

I mean, nobody would really notice if someone removed the teammate cooldown part of it.

[plucky gate]

it feels like an obligation to take it for the team rn

[fleet zealot]

And then it will still be 1% more than bruiser and proc off one additional enemy type

[grizzled aspen]

I frankly don't care either way, my point was the 5% for yourself is fine.

Bruiser in live is just slightly weaker, and soon, it won't be.

[fleet zealot]

True we should pretend it doesn’t give the additional 5%*3 for your other teammates

[grizzled aspen]

Not like ogryn can hunt specialists that much anyway lol.

Also note that bruiser procs off of your teammates killing elites too.

[fleet zealot]

That’s not the point lol

Elites and specs is more than elites

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-the-frog-kermit-massacred-terrible-accident-muppets-gif-22942068

[grizzled aspen]

Ok? The % cdr is the point we are arguing.

Both percentages are fine.

[fleet zealot]

20% total team effective cdr

Vs 4% just for the player

[grizzled aspen]

Bruiser will likely be more consistent with its rework though.

[ashen pike]

I assume dump stat here is Heat Management?

[grizzled aspen]

We already agreed we don't take it for our teammates. :)

[acoustic dune]

mobility

[fleet zealot]

True i shouldn’t be baited by you derailing

Into fucking

[acoustic dune]

if i remenber

[fleet zealot]

Bruiser

[plucky gate]

I would like to say that full reset in 20 kills is different than full reset in 25 kills

[fleet zealot]

For some reason

[plucky gate]

1% off of 5% isn't actually nothing

[fleet zealot]

Right before the ogryn rework

[grizzled aspen]

Yes, they are different, and bruiser is slightly weaker.

[plucky gate]

but i just said i do

[grizzled aspen]

I never said it wasn't.

[plucky gate]

20% weaker isn't slightly

[fleet zealot]

Slightly

[grizzled aspen]

I said only two cdr in the game are overtuned, those being iod and tac awareness, and the rest are either fine or weak.

Psyk aura and live bruiser are fine, but soon, bruiser will be great.

Martyrs purpose is weak and the only bad part about pious cutthroat is backstab hitreg inconsistency.

[plucky gate]

I would do more assail builds on havoc if I didn't feel the need to bring PA for the team

[fleet zealot]

https://youtu.be/-UAaMfZ-1wY?si=GyfL4kcnEUgVmrEu

Im going to go and put down a 3rd note not to take frog opinions seriously

[grizzled aspen]

You can do smite with scriers and abuse warp unbound with psyk aura.

It's actually quite effective.

[plucky gate]

I'm aware but that isn't really fun

[grizzled aspen]

You do you, not my fault you want to be wrong. :)

[fleet zealot]

Like voldy at least coming from a place of ignorance not being a zealot main and making some questionable choices

[fleet zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/jo-jos-bizarre-adventure-frog-fist-gif-11650164

Like the, IJ extension idea where you inflict 1 additional stack of bleed for every 2 stacks on the target

That is just like

Not knowing bleed caps at 16

[grizzled aspen]

That sounds like a knife specific way of running IJ lol.

(yes I know lacerate is 4 stacks a hit)

[fleet zealot]

If i wake up one day and shroudfield is a leap i am committing a warcrime on sweden

[grizzled aspen]

Every day I wake up and shroudfield still exists.

[placid fiber]

shroudfield has uses, but, it isn't tide game oriented

[frosty herald]

invis is now extended by 2 seconds for every weakspot kill

[plucky gate]

I think you guys misinterpreted this.
Pretty sure it's 1 stack of bleed per 2 stacks of IJ you have
for a proposed 5 stacks of bleed per hit, since they had 10 stacks of IJ written there

[fleet zealot]

If it works like post nerf/rework shade yea

[grizzled aspen]

I'm going to cut your hamstrings if fatshark actually does this.

[fleet zealot]

Cause the refreshes only get shade passive

[frosty herald]

make fatshark do it

it will be hilarious

[fleet zealot]

Not the ability bonuses

And put it at 1 second refresh

[acoustic dune]

@frosty herald ok i am done

@grizzled aspen got the boba as you ask

[grizzled aspen]

Its horrendous.

Excellent.

[acoustic dune]

ik

yamato gotta change his pfp for a week now

[plucky gate]

wtf

[grizzled aspen]

Lower your voice or he will yassify you next.

[acoustic dune]

this is true

why do you think the ferret was yassify

https://tenor.com/view/it-was-me-barry-original-flash-reverse-flash-gif-16579891338034607240

[plucky gate]

I think you should yassify the frog

[acoustic dune]

he has yet anger me

[fleet zealot]

Yassify frog

[acoustic dune]

so be it

[plucky gate]

wow that frog really does look like icecream

[violet hornet]

I know right

Lil fudge ripple mf

[acoustic dune]

ill make a quicky

@grizzled aspen do you want a fluoride stare or no?

[mint brook]

Bro copy pasted a regular dragon ball episode and claimed he edited it

Thats legit how he always looked

[acoustic dune]

WRONG

he never had boba tea

it was

a tomar plushie in da original

[hushed knoll]

YAAAAAS FROGCAST SLAYYY

[mint brook]

Darn

[hushed knoll]

I suck boba tea too hard and the little balls shoot into my throat and make me cough

[acoustic dune]

@solar gorge

[hushed knoll]

Why are you pinging Lambda-chan

@royal vortex stop frog assing me

[plucky gate]

stan failing to drink boba tea does not surprise me

[hushed knoll]

wtf screaming mushroom

https://tenor.com/view/shame-on-you-gif-25797108

[plucky gate]

hi stan

[full nebula]

Anyone like classical music? Opinions? https://youtu.be/_HuDT2IDSH4?si=WuqHCSUQSLhtjWPR

[acoustic dune]

idk shit about music

i listen to rock

https://open.spotify.com/track/3075GFD8j1WFyF1pUGbAuh?si=e3a3aeec3e694e5b

but i doherve roy work seem neat

[open echo]

wahat thge knife blessings agian

[acoustic dune]

riposte and the other one

doge thing

that and rending

per weakspot hit

[copper hawk]

@grizzled aspen

[open echo]

whats the uncanny combinaton or is that not a thing asnymore

[copper hawk]

Mobility

[open echo]

and i assume flesh tearer isn't used much on kinfe

[acoustic dune]

its frown upon

that and lacerate

however

[open echo]

howcomeb? juist bleed moment?

[sullen forge]

It’s overpowered but frowned upon

[acoustic dune]

its canceerous

asf

[open echo]

dmg dump jumscarea

top 10 scarey

[sullen forge]

Rending Bleed is why ignore that input

[acoustic dune]

anyhow immagive da frog yassqueen hand

[open echo]

is it l*cerate + uncanny that people really hate?

[sullen forge]

Literally just get a normal knife with Uncanny and a Bleed Talent (Scourge or serrated)

And it’s brain dead overpowered

[open echo]

real

[sullen forge]

Yea because anti synergy that ends up being strong

[hard bough]

hemorrhage is a viable tactic fellas

[sullen forge]

3.5 second window

[open echo]

howcome lmao

[acoustic dune]

first time using it like yesterday

[open echo]

knife seems dumb

[acoustic dune]

and good god

before then i thought bleed was a meme

[hard bough]

second to dueling sword imo

[open echo]

so how is flesh tearer + uncanny/riposte? still dumb?

[acoustic dune]

stupid op

ran it yesterday

with the dump damage knife

[fringe bay]

Yeah it’s absurd

Just ignores health and armor alike

[open echo]

flesh tearer/mercy killer actually seems kinda fun

but idk

[sullen forge]

DOT that rapidly boosts in damage against Maniac, Unyielding, Cara, and Flak because you decided to run Uncanny with your bleed

It’s less bleed and more rending that’s overpowered

[plucky gate]

uncanny is busted

[hard bough]

also affects throwing knives as a bonus

[open echo]

wait im kinda confused here, does uncanny work with bleed, or do you need to stack it?

[acoustic dune]

wouldnt recommend mercy killer

[plucky gate]

I've run uncanny flesh tearer before. Works well enough but replacing flesh tearer with like any of the good knife blessings ends up being a bit better

[hard bough]

precog is another thing

[open echo]

meh, its fun, not very good

but fun

[hard bough]

yeah don't be turned down by any of the knife blessings

they're all at least servicable

[open echo]

lacerate + mecry killer kinda stops you from playing brain off with knife

almost

[plucky gate]

Most combinations of uncanny/riposte/precog/flesh tearer are gonna work without issue

well most

[acoustic dune]

you hit weakspot anyway

[plucky gate]

precog flesh tearer probably doesn't make that much sense

but aside from that

[hard bough]

it's a thumbs up imo

[sullen forge]

Uncanny is a self buff

[acoustic dune]

@fleet zealot @grizzled aspen

[sullen forge]

So if an enemy is being effected by DOT sources you put on them it’ll be buffed by your uncanny stacks

[acoustic dune]

done

[plucky gate]

beautiful

[acoustic dune]

i was gonna give him white hands

but

too lazy to search

[hard bough]

white belly

color game would be off

[undone pewter]

You are a modern da vinci

[acoustic dune]

i am not drawing a yassify frog rub his belly

i shan't

nay i wont

[hard bough]

I said no such thing, that is just another me inside your head

[open echo]

ah, so what are the popular knife combinations, apart from l*cerate + uncanny :3

[acoustic dune]

https://tenor.com/view/mkultra-mind-control-cat-face-gif-2481894448833856970

[hard bough]

usually people pair uncanny with precog or riposte, or ruthless if you're playing a certain way

[acoustic dune]

i hope making edit help me with colouring in the future

i suck ass at painting

[hard bough]

it's ok gamer

ur taking steps

[acoustic dune]

i hate painting aswell

[sullen forge]

Uncanny Precog
Uncanny Riposte
Uncanny Flesh Tearer
(Veteran only) Uncanny Mercy Killer with Serrated Blade Talent
Riposte Precog

[acoustic dune]

if i could outsource colouring

i would

[plucky gate]

Uncanny + Precog/Riposte/Flesh Tearer
or
Precog + Riposte

[hushed knoll]

I like oil paints. Have you seen the oil painting of an Uncrustable ™️

[acoustic dune]

https://tenor.com/view/good-morning-wake-up-wakey-wakey-awaken-gif-26734899

[acoustic dune]

OH THAT

i thought

[hushed knoll]

I love it

I want a print of it

[acoustic dune]

you should see some painting in person

[sullen forge]

That’s an oil painting of an uncrustable

[acoustic dune]

its insane how detail some of it are

[sullen forge]

That’s actually badass

[hushed knoll]

I read that as “in prison”

[hushed knoll]

Ikr?

[hard bough]

I'd rather corpse starch

[hushed knoll]

@north sedge hates it

[acoustic dune]

i should draw more girlsify choas god

[hushed knoll]

No you wouldn’t

[hard bough]

I'm sorry dawg

I do not like how that looks

[acoustic dune]

i just need a 4th one

and i get the 4 horse man of the apocalypse

[hushed knoll]

LMAO

[solar gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/boccicord-gif-3989917567552955671

[acoustic dune]

add it to the collection

[opal star]

balls in your throat is crazy

[acoustic dune]

ey dreg

[opal star]

hi wolf

[acoustic dune]

how do you feel being yassify?

[sullen forge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914161923334214/1350267624767881276/RAH.gif

[open echo]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1163040688385040446/1169340797964005451/IMG_5730.gif

[opal star]

I acknowledge and accept this

[acoustic dune]

mmh
you sound too enthusiastic

need to find a new prey

[hard bough]

fire nade chat

[hushed knoll]

LAMBDA HI ILY

[acoustic dune]

change it too molotov when

[opal star]

well now you made dreg rager #760398091 sad, I hope you're happy

[sullen forge]

Sometimes people should just

Refrain

[hushed knoll]

You can’t judge me

[hard bough]

I don't trust zealot chat with that

[acoustic dune]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-rogaldorn-gif-10829755

[acoustic dune]

thats why we should hav eit

[hard bough]

you know what, you

you in particular

sure

why not

[acoustic dune]

i only run tknive anyway

[acoustic dune]

ey i have those pic

[acoustic dune]

dont feel like going that tree

@hard bough

[hard bough]

I'm all of those btw

face reveal, I'm just a fatass cat

[acoustic dune]

sadly i dont remenber the twitter link where i got it

[hard bough]

[acoustic dune]

lies

[sullen forge]

From typing things and pressing send

[acoustic dune]

this is you

[hard bough]

eh sure

[acoustic dune]

cough cough

[hard bough]

okay now we should just go back to zealot chatting

[acoustic dune]

mayhaps

[hushed knoll]

This is not a painting

[acoustic dune]

Ey doug

Seen my best edit yet?

[hushed knoll]

[spiral ridge]

How do we do Just a flesh wound penance?

[acoustic dune]

The karnak twin boss

[hushed knoll]

STOP I HAD FINALLY FORGOTTEN ABOUT RHIS

THIS

[acoustic dune]

Get low health before fighting the twin

Wait for like

5 min or so

The fite The twin

[acoustic dune]

https://tenor.com/view/pepo-g-peepo-gif-22945943

[hushed knoll]

Oh the candle

[north sedge]

Not a candle

[acoustic dune]

Why is it smiling?

[north sedge]

It's happy

[acoustic dune]

Do you have one of it petting das cat?

[open echo]

hows uncanny flesh tearer compared to lacerate uncanny

kinda interested

[north sedge]

Nope

[red mesa]

any devil claw users here?
Thoughts about buffs? I'm not sure how much it will really change. Less stamina consumption and some faster combos is nice

[acoustic dune]

Darn

[north sedge]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CYqA8C7hs9j/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

bridget.moser

Likes

1125

Instagram

[plucky gate]

lacerate uncanny has weird requirements for playstyle cause you gotta headshot to keep uncanny stacks up but you gotta bodyshot to apply lacerate bleed

and also knife wants to headshot for damage too

flesh tearer just lets you play normally

[sullen forge]

Lac + Un when you get the movement down does shockingly more

But FT is more so if you’re insisting to keep hitting heads

[sullen forge]

I skimmed it a bit ago

If it’s nothing regarding buffing it’s Flak adm

It’s most likely still dead in the water

[fleet zealot]

Wonderful

[acoustic dune]

Just one more

[acoustic dune]

And we get the 4 gorse men od the apocalypse

[fleet zealot]

Im going to use the edit and throw it and frog everytime he shows his face

[acoustic dune]

I wanna see this happen

[red mesa]

ya this is kind of what i was thinking. Its too slow to kill carapace and even sometimes flak armor guys. The buffs are nice, and the swords do well against a lot of targets.
But without some armor dmg buff (which i get why they dont want to, and not have every weapon be anti armor) they seem just meh AM+

[acoustic dune]

@fleet zealot I thought of giving blind hair

[sullen forge]

It shouldn’t kill Cara

[acoustic dune]

But go too lasy

[sullen forge]

But it shouldn’t literally be useless against Flak

Or at least struggle heavily against it

[plucky gate]

oh they're buffing dclaw too?

time to try out the ultimate build
dclaw autopistol

[acoustic dune]

Make dclaw behave to deflect boolet

It would be funny

[mint brook]

hey lads, i had a fun idea for blades of faith, i know it needs no big buffs, so i decided to make something very situantional

For every 2 seconds of not using your ranged weapon, Blades of faith deal 1% more damage, up to 20%

i just wanted to engage more with the death cult idea of frowning upon ranged weaponry

[plucky gate]

Oh Vold you're back.
Did you mean per stack of IJ earlier or per stack of bleed on target?

[mint brook]

so, at 10 momentum stacks, attacks would deal 5 bleed per attack for 6 seconds

[plucky gate]

yeah that's what i thought

[mint brook]

did you guys think it was only on the first attack?

[plucky gate]

was wondering why everyone else was talking as if 5 bleed per hit would be dog shit

[mint brook]

that would be fucking rancid

[plucky gate]

ferret thought "per stack" meant per stack of bleed already on the enemy

[mint brook]

HELL NAH

you get 6 seconds of bleeding, scourge will be removed from the game as is but blazing piety will get buffs to comepte with IJ

left will be the crit tree

[copper hawk]

Scourge is fine so long as they reduce the crit chance

[north sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/y-tho-why-tho-gif-5096585717188557110

[copper hawk]

Blood redemption will have to be buffed to compete with scourhe

Scourge*

A lot of shit needs to be improved to compete with other shit

[mint brook]

i mean, sure scourge could be balanced

but, hear me out

[plucky gate]

honestly it's so hard to think about what changes for zealot would be good because I think the whole tree should be reworked anyways
And it's hard to discuss individual changes without knowing what the rest of the tree would be

[copper hawk]

I had this hair brained idea where piety dr should apply to tdr, and you shouldnt take any chip damage past a certain threshold on tness % to make marty less hr dependent and actually able to compete with the defensive buffs of ij while also maintaining the le epic walking killcorpse aesthetic

[copper hawk]

Yerp

Unfinished tree needs to be uprooted and reworked

Obligatory unfinished tree screenshot

[frosty herald]

Its the tree with the least changes since the tree update

[mint brook]

what if scourge was reworked into something more interesting?

[copper hawk]

And yah like

[mint brook]

something still bleed related, but more ... different

[copper hawk]

That whole top part is busted

Like it needs heavy work

None of the other classes past the 25th will need to dedicate 4 talent points to take a blitz lol

All roads lead to blitz ala ogryn rework

[carmine falcon]

at this point keep it the same
every take i read to change it just boils down to lobotomizing the class

[copper hawk]

They should just pluck zealot chat members and make them ptesters for any future zealot tree rework

[carmine falcon]

if you're not gonna do it right dont bother

[copper hawk]

I agree w bandit

Get zealot players to do the zealot rework

Same w how they got ogryn players to do the ogryn one

[solar gorge]

i play all classes, i think they should just let me make all the game's balancing tbh

[heady rapids]

no? they're literally in the process of banning them all........

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710505734282018889/1351201195431034900/RDT_20241118_2201016645429803181321652-1.gif

[copper hawk]

I'm certain a lot of the playtesters dont know the weird shit that Zealot has in its tree

Stalwart giving buffs to toughness

Toughness earned*

[plucky gate]

if zealot rework fails, ban all the zealots
ez

[copper hawk]

evis having damage caps

[carmine falcon]

literally every single rework suggestion ive seen has 0 info on how the tree will get variety and a lot of talk about gutting every single cool ability because fuck having fun

[copper hawk]

Etc

[frosty herald]

https://tenor.com/view/rise-hand-rise-hand-rise-up-cat-me-too-gif-24649542

[solar gorge]

elect me playtester and my first move will be to delete the duelling sword

[copper hawk]

Nerf second wind !!! Cuz... IDK !!!!!!!

[plucky gate]

zealot talent descriptions are frequently wrong

[carmine falcon]

until death is the worst thing ever!!!!! aarrrghhhghhhh

[heady rapids]

remove zealot and replace hijm with slayer bardin

[copper hawk]

Lmgao

[heady rapids]

no ranged slot

2 thunder hammers

one crucis one ironhelm

[copper hawk]

Let's remove the entire identity of a Zealot all the way back starting in VT2 cuz it makes me grumpy

Despite the escape death button CAN get you killed when otherwise not having it wouldnt

Doesnt save you from disablers

And gives you a pittance of health, AND procs on chip damage

[carmine falcon]

i knew people lost the plot when i was reading about nerfing fotf because "no strong ability should only cost 2 points"

zealot has a lot of tax
we wanna remove that
tax the blitz

we live in a society

[copper hawk]

U know vt2 zealot's until death was a passive right

[heady rapids]

u know vt2 zealot could reset its cd with dash

[copper hawk]

Oops it talent 4 u dt zealot

[heady rapids]

fun fact..........

[copper hawk]

Saltz 2 strong 4 u

[frosty herald]

It was for launch darktide zealot

[copper hawk]

Yerp

And it'd refill all ur hp

I think it's fine where it's at now

[frosty herald]

No

[heady rapids]

still not the biggest dps class

!!!

[carmine falcon]

until death isnt even used proper by most people

[frosty herald]

That was a talent node you needed to pick

[solar gorge]

back in the days where i'd get full hp with 1 charged thammer strike

[copper hawk]

Maybe combine them into one talent to reduce the bloat issue zealot has

[carmine falcon]

most people die in the 2 minute cool down

[lean cairn]

until death should be 4 minutes

[copper hawk]

I meant in terms of the state of the ability in old dt

[frosty herald]

Yeeyee

[copper hawk]

120 seconds is fine methinks

[plucky gate]

well, that's the only real way to die

aside from getting ledged

[frosty herald]

Imagine if we were dropped back into launch darktide

[copper hawk]

Yah ur at like no hp

[heady rapids]

i would just roll a bm caxe with a crucian secondary

[copper hawk]

Or u take fucking chip from a single poxwalker or a soundless backshot from s shooter w no enemies around u

Womp womp

No hp 4 u

[carmine falcon]

my point is you would think zealots are running around immortal in lobbies because of this "broken talent" but zealots fall just like the rest
truth of the matter is if u dont know how to use until death you will still die

[copper hawk]

Frontline SQUISHY melee class needs the safety net

[mint brook]

okay then i ask

[copper hawk]

Ogryn gets a parry all enemies talent and press F to ignore everything

[mint brook]

what do you guys considered the identity of zealot?

[copper hawk]

Hitting 0 and getting invuln is fine

[solar gorge]

running alone and dying in some random corner

[mint brook]

cause to me, his identity atm boils down to a single tree

[copper hawk]

No cooldown on the parry all basic enemies talent btw

[lean cairn]

are you saying zealot is squishy

[frosty herald]

2 handed melee weapons and being a DPS frontliner

[carmine falcon]

a frontliner beast that can sustain and survive on his own and bring the pain to all enemy types through melee

[copper hawk]

Front line melee

With an emphasis on sustain and crowd management

With specialisations into dps and boss kill

[mint brook]

would my rework suggestion lobotomize him then? i mean i still suggest him be that tho, or not?

[acoustic dune]

Is this about tanner or smth?

[plucky gate]

until death, second wind and duelist basically define zealot for me

[carmine falcon]

i didnt look at yours tbh but the rest here are quite something

[mint brook]

how did you come to the conclusino this was bout tanner

[copper hawk]

Compared to Ogryn? Yes, that's the weakness; if you're clipped by certain attacks you instantly die

[mint brook]

but simply, no, not even in the slightest

[acoustic dune]

It's always about tanner

[carmine falcon]

zealot needs a varied tree that can keep the identity if u wanna gut the "op" talents
just gutting them and packaging a bunch of mid talents would kill it

[copper hawk]

You're still a human character, blood redemption or stallie be damned

[acoustic dune]

The lass complain about everything

[copper hawk]

That overhead WILL kill you

[plucky gate]

being able to survive in combat and getting survivability and damage buffs for staying mobile deep in a fight is what I think of for zealot

[copper hawk]

It's all about maneuverability; Zealot isn't strong per hit but has great options with evasion

It's why there's a whole tree built around being a bladedancy evasive target

W second wind and things like duellist, good balance

[frosty herald]

Zealot is the only class that can survive a crusher overhead on damnation and havoc

[copper hawk]

These proc on dodge abilities are fundamental to the class identity

Otherwise you're just a shittier ogryn

Zealot does what ogryn shouldnt

Moves faster and survives by being nimble

Need to remember that the class needs to be squishy with safety nets in order to prevent people from just flamering everything or just shooting at a distance

Or picking weapons shittier than meta

While also keeping the TABLETOP aesthetic, and the aesthetic of Tide warhammer games

Do you know about Feel No Pain ? Human characters, and other Imperial characters have it on tabletop

Saltz from VT2 had until death

It's part of the class identity

Keep it

[frosty herald]

https://tenor.com/view/stalker-soc-bloodsucker-on-bicycle-gif-20911439

[lean cairn]

you have like 900% tdr what

[plucky gate]

I think you might be able to with HP stacking ogryn

crusher overheads are like 350 in damnation or something?

oh 416

[plucky gate]

so 624 overhead damage in havoc since they have 50% more damage

hmm

[nimble fiber]

[sullen forge]

Are we arguing Ogryn is overpowered

Is that what I stumbled into

[frosty herald]

no

[plucky gate]

nah i'm just wondering if anything can survive crusher overhead other than zealot

[frosty herald]

survivabilty

[copper hawk]

There needs to be an inbetween of making a class aesthetically appealing, maintaining established warhammer aesthetic, and giving the character survivability through maneuverability, or giving temporary damage reduction by landing crits, bladedancer, or dodging an attack

[copper hawk]

Scroll up

Talkin about hypothetical zealot rework

Class issues etc

Aesthetic of the class

[heady rapids]

regardless of what they do to zealot tho

[frosty herald]

a zealot rework would imo be the most complex thing fatshark will do

[heady rapids]

i wanna see ogryn nerfs

[misty nova]

Not yet

[frosty herald]

because there are a LOT of differing opinions of what zealot emphasizes

[sullen forge]

Give it a week

[copper hawk]

Zealot and Ogryn overlap

[solar gorge]

yes

and it will always be like this

1 patch ogryn is a shittier zealot, next patch zealot's a shittier ogryn

[plucky gate]

Okay FNP ogryn should survive this

[carmine falcon]

they are also facing an issue where the stuff that makes the class actually fun are being considered busted while half of the tree is dead weight
good luck