zealot-class

[frosty herald]

https://tenor.com/view/black-ops-woods-cod-gif-17392574626699745990

[sullen forge]

Is that fucking Woods LMAO

[frosty herald]

Yeah lmao

[open echo]

how is the shock maul atm

last time i played it was completley new

[obsidian prairie]

It’s like

The definition of mid

It’s not bad

But also not good enough for most people to pick it

[open echo]

just seems fun but not too good

[obsidian prairie]

Good Cara damage and CC but kinda slow clear and terrible unyielding damage

[visual stream]

iFunny is how little middle schoolers get indoctrinated into racism

[obsidian prairie]

Also 4 dodges

[open echo]

thats sad

[visual stream]

Good ol iFunny

[misty ravine]

I thought that was 4chan

[open echo]

i miss force swords having infinite dodges

[sterile stone]

Isn't that 4chan

[visual stream]

Can be both

[sterile stone]

Jinx you owe me a soda

@misty ravine

[visual stream]

4chan is mostly grown men being degenerate though

[sterile stone]

So....

[misty ravine]

Not like here

[sterile stone]

Anywhere on the internet

Cause it happens on discord just as much

It's just segmented into private communities alot of the time

[open echo]

so how do people build ironhelm/curcius :3

[sullen forge]

I WOULDNT EVEN KILL MENENDEZ FOR YOU!

[sterile stone]

This looks like some Eurobean soda

[sullen forge]

IJ keystone, Headtaker Thrust

[visual stream]

It happens on Discord but not as widespread as 4chan

[sterile stone]

It better have corn syrup or I ain't drinking it

[frosty herald]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-gif-16944752780895267751

[obsidian prairie]

Thrust and headtaker (more consistent) or slaughterer (higher potential) with Cara unyielding

Martyrdom or IJ

[visual stream]

In most public Discords you get freakazoids posting like dogwhistles or barely concealed degenerate beliefs but not enough to ban them outright

[sterile stone]

Outside of like maybe 4 or 5 boards, I wouldn't say it's that wide spread.

[sterile stone]

Are we gonna ignore all the gore and porn posting that's happened in here over the years

Or the outright racism that's occured

[sullen forge]

Yes we’re casually going to ignore both sides being beyond deplorable

[open echo]

oki so that hasn't changed much, what abt in terms of skills?

[sullen forge]

Uh, again same situation

[obsidian prairie]

You run The Build™️ but don’t take any crit talents and run martyrdom or IJ

[sullen forge]

Just assume 99% of the time it’s the build

God Zealot needs help tree wise LMAO

[copper hawk]

Good balance

Stalwart

[open echo]

i don't fully know what the new general build is :(

[open echo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1204540553971372072/1337110896920756296/RDT_20241118_2201016645429803181321652-1.gif

[obsidian prairie]

It hasn’t changed

[sullen forge]

Someone send “The Build” layout

I’m at work

[obsidian prairie]

#zealot-class message

The Build™️

[sullen forge]

@copper hawk how was your 3 hours of sleep being forced on you cause of inconvenient Daylights timing

Forgot to ask

[copper hawk]

It was fucking miserable lmfao

But the work day was fine

I was w my sl

We just yapped the whole shift

He's awesome to be around

[sullen forge]

Okay work wasn’t miserable

[open echo]

ah, are there ever really any exeptions to this (apart from silly builds), or are there any weapons that are helped by a specific skill?

[sullen forge]

But no sleep was

Sounds right

[copper hawk]

I started running out of batteries tho at the end

[obsidian prairie]

Uhhhhh

[copper hawk]

That day previously i only got like 5 or so hrs of sleep

[median steeple]

no exilar

[visual stream]

I'm not in those communities on Discord and they don't seem very public, nor do they happen in public servers managed by companies

[obsidian prairie]

Relic mk10 takes Disdain

[visual stream]

However

[sullen forge]

Chorus build but you’re actively gutting your damage

[copper hawk]

So running into the next day with even less was miserable

[lunar fable]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246140539039252481/1337259957535375381/IMG_1886.gif

[visual stream]

There is a massive amount of degeneracy here still

[copper hawk]

I started slurring my words, my eyeballs ached, et

[visual stream]

I will say that

[copper hawk]

Etc*

[obsidian prairie]

A bunch of weapons need TWBS to clear safely

[sterile stone]

You're in one

It's not like the mods allow the shit to happen.

IT's just

[visual stream]

That's kinda the point though

[sterile stone]

No one is gonna suspect the random new person in the server is a fucking weirdo degenerate.

[visual stream]

In almost any internet community you can post something silly

[sterile stone]

But that's not saying it doesn't happen.

[sullen forge]

Unless you yourself are

[visual stream]

The difference is that in here it gets taken down and they get banned

[sullen forge]

Cause the amount of people who project by jumping on others immediately

[visual stream]

In 4chan everyone posts more gore/porn in tow

[sullen forge]

Is fucking insane

[median steeple]

I could make a very long list of people who do that in here

[sterile stone]

https://tenor.com/view/eyebrows-wink-gif-5753057

[median steeple]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

when gen chatters join in here and complain

[sullen forge]

Entirety of Zealot chat 🚬

[median steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1120299759316520960/1348630718388899840/Cityu.mp4?ex=67d029bb&is=67ced83b&hm=1443a97b7bf50764b1ab0541d2bc1a8f600caef5faee6aae91590ac4d5954fe4&

[sterile stone]

I'll say this much, you learn alot about a person when they don't have the public eye on them.

And sometimes you wish you didn't learn a thing about them...

[median steeple]

DST does not affect your sleep if you have insomnia

[visual stream]

Very truedge

[copper hawk]

Argus is more of a tea addict than I am

[tawny walrus]

I made my hunter a pirate

[sullen forge]

Look I’m one who doesn’t give a fuck what a person does in private as long as it’s not involving kids or animals and they aren’t showing it off publicly every second

[median steeple]

guild knight hat my beloved

[sullen forge]

That is weird

[sterile stone]

Agreed

[median steeple]

I'm gonna police your personal life now

[copper hawk]

I think this is the 6th time I've seen him talking about either ghosts of Zealot chat's degenerate past or other people being weird in vague and nebulous terms

[sterile stone]

I'll tell you like I told Vin

[median steeple]

one step out of line and you get skinned

[sterile stone]

I don't go around asking about people

People are just a little too open

And a little too willing to share.

And I wish they weren't...

[copper hawk]

Lmfao

Literally

[visual stream]

Caitlyn League Legends

[copper hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-sad-face-emo-emotional-raining-gif-16549214

[visual stream]

bewm, headshawt

[sterile stone]

What...

Like why are you trying to get my attention dude

[tawny walrus]

Give me a bowgun blunderbuss skin pls Capcom

[copper hawk]

Just pointing it out lil glooper

U need more lines

[median steeple]

haven't finished coding them yet

[sterile stone]

https://tenor.com/view/bye-felicia-friday-shoo-go-away-gif-4389994

[sullen forge]

It’ll be out when it’s out

[median steeple]

SOON

[sullen forge]

Lightbringer

[copper hawk]

Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.

[sullen forge]

Degenerates like you belong on a cross

[median steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/bos-fallout-fallout4-fallout3-falloutnv-gif-5257886235934490918

[burnt escarp]

I've learned that a distant cousin to rocket jumping exists

Coordinated barrel blowing

[frosty herald]

REALLLLL

[sullen forge]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-gif-1360455632945049216

[median steeple]

NCR and BOS are my fav factions

thank god operation sunburst is a thing as a I get two cakes

[maiden forge]

I prefer uh

[burnt escarp]

My favourite faction was the dogtown raiders of colorado before the legion eated them

[copper hawk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1164838809641426944/1345562115926265966/SPOILER_ezgif-88b37b738d7401.gif

[maiden forge]

Caesars legion

[maiden forge]

Why is doro signalis eating her gf

[frosty herald]

https://tenor.com/view/enclave-fallout-scream-if-you-love-gif-14963596946908880716

[violet hornet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1344153404552908860/hilbert.gif

[burnt escarp]

Minutemen - pissed in gravy = peak

[median steeple]

The hangdogs are cool I wish we saw them before the got obliterated

[burnt escarp]

Real.

They got absorbed, not obliterated

[sullen forge]

“Kill everyone” the faction

[burnt escarp]

The houndmaster guy in Caesar's camp is one of them

Was*

[frosty herald]

https://tenor.com/view/scream-if-you-love-ongezellig-ongezellig-brock-lesnar-maya-mymy-gif-5757119159997408746

[sullen forge]

Enclave is cool but I’d love them a shit ton more if they were actively trying to revive America without brutally murdering everyone smh

[median steeple]

I mean it's the same thing, their culture and uniqueness are almost gone. Reduced to beastmasters and nothing else

[copper hawk]

COAL !!!!!!!

[median steeple]

everything that wasn't useful gets erased

[burnt escarp]

Yeah, fair. I like the Khans, too

[median steeple]

I NEED MORE WARFRAME MUSCI RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

I always let the Khans go to Wyoming

[frosty herald]

Frank horrigan says "time to die mutie" whilst he is a super mutant himself

Is he stupid?

[maiden forge]

Yes

He was stupid

As stupid as man

[burnt escarp]

Low-key the hillbillies of point lookout are cool asf
Subtract the inbreeding and they're like an off-brand cult faction

CHILDREN OF ATOM, OH, ATOM MY BELOVED

[median steeple]

Looking at every Enclave member besides Autumn

[burnt escarp]

Gunners are hella mid ngl

[median steeple]

Gunners are cooler Talon Company but they're expanded upon like TC

[carmine falcon]

did they change the ai director the spawns im getting today are actually crazy

i love it

[frosty herald]

General autumn wasnt the villain in fallout 3

[carmine falcon]

literally the 40 fucking ragers meme but happens every 2 minutes

[median steeple]

He wasn't a villain just an antagonist there's a diff, he wanted to do good for nefarious reasons

[burnt escarp]

Gunners are like , the post-apocalyptic tryhard airsofters

[maiden forge]

Nah that’s just the ai going “this is too hard”

[carmine falcon]

i lost a game due to nonstop elite spam but was really fun

lights out boss auric

[burnt escarp]

I MISS THE OUTCASTS

[carmine falcon]

right at the end

[burnt escarp]

they must return

[maiden forge]

Ai director will now throw 8 beasts of nurgle and Chaos spawn to balance the last match

[median steeple]

I mean they semi exist, the came back to Lyons chapter when Maxson took over

and heavily changed them

[sullen forge]

I fuck with the idea of reviving America from the ruins but holy shit Enclave are comical levels of bad guy LMAO

[maiden forge]

Bring the good ol American values

[carmine falcon]

thats exactly what happened
look at boss dmg

[maiden forge]

Amusing

I need to figure out how to get that mod tbh

Too braindead to figure out basic modding I assume

[median steeple]

can't wait for S2 the sets look so cool so far

thank god they're doing so much practical stuff

[carmine falcon]

pretty simple just download the 2 dependancies then install it

[copper hawk]

Gneep !

[maiden forge]

Yeah I assume I need to do something else then

[carmine falcon]

gneep gnoop to you good sir

[maiden forge]

Either that or I fucked up something

[misty ravine]

Better off with NCR or FO3 BOS for that (no idea what they're like on FO4 never played lol)

[frosty herald]

You need to manualy place mods in your mod loader text file

[median steeple]

they're a mix of outcasts and lyons

[frosty herald]

Now what you want to do is ignore that

And install the auto mod load order

[median steeple]

will still help people but are much more focused on collecting technology

[maiden forge]

Ic

[frosty herald]

You know whats really weird

[median steeple]

but nothing will match the peak of FO1 and 2 BOS

[frosty herald]

No one has salvaged enclave tech for personal use

[misty ravine]

FO1 go full Admech if they win don't they

[frosty herald]

No BOS members with tesla armor

[median steeple]

that's the whole reason for the BOS NCR war

NCR citizens had insane amount of salvaged tech from the enclave

and the BOS was like "eh maybe we shouldn't let everyone have this" and it's history

[maiden forge]

I reckon we let the courier make his own empire for the mohavi instead

[median steeple]

fallout 2 BOS was cool asf since they acted like an independent RnD faction within the NCR helping them and shit

[sterile stone]

Fallout 3, outside of some vertibirds, BoS don't take much

Base crawler gets fucking nuked so that's useless

[misty ravine]

How much better is Enclave power armor than BOS, canonically? Might not be worth retooling what industrial base they have, and needing much rarer / more expensive materials, in order to support the use of power armor with a little better performance characteristics

[median steeple]

APA is the best PA post war

and it's iterations

XO1 is the best pre war

with T51 being right behind it

[sullen forge]

The Enclave are generally better in terms of equipment

Doesn’t mean the BOS can’t mollywhop them still 🚬

[winged aspen]

Shoutout to combat axe for having a fun heavy attack animation

[copper hawk]

APA

[frosty herald]

Only because of the main character

[winged aspen]

I LOVE OVERHEAD SWINGS

[sterile stone]

This

[median steeple]

For power armor levels it's like
Advanced power mark 3 (hellfire)
Tesla
Advanced power mark 2 (bog standard enclave PA)
X01
T51
T60
T45

[copper hawk]

I love yo mama !

[frosty herald]

Both the bos and the ncr wouldve been wiped out without the MC

[copper hawk]

@median steeple For Slopor ?

[median steeple]

T60 is worse than T51 but better than 45 and can be produced

[winged aspen]

T-51 looks sick asf

[sullen forge]

Found that so weird how

[copper hawk]

T 51 is the one with the ceramic plates right

[sullen forge]

T60 is worse than T51

[copper hawk]

Like in lore theyre not made of metal

[sullen forge]

Yet it was made AFTER T51

[copper hawk]

Is it ceramic or composite

[winged aspen]

You look like you’re made of ceramic

[median steeple]

T60 is worse since it's made of cheaper materials and doesn't fix any of the 45s problems

[winged aspen]

fragile but humble

[median steeple]

also the T60 was invented and produced post war

[sterile stone]

Shit like Raven Rock got bombed case Eden decided it was in his best interest to let the guy who's father got murdered to be allowed to just wander up to him on a whim that he'd actually hear him out

[sullen forge]

That explains a bit

[median steeple]

and unlike the enclave the BOS doesn't have the materials to make really good PA

[misty ravine]

Then there's just reverse engineering being a lot harder than it seems, for a lot of things. Like a modern single-crystal turbine blade, some faction with early 20th century level technology would easily figure out the material composition and reproduce the shape, but wouldn't know how to actually produce them to be as strong as the overall jet engine design requires

[sterile stone]

I mean beyond that...

They were also working on mind control for animals

[sullen forge]

Is in the disadvantage equipment wise

Wins

How do they do it

[sterile stone]

So if they got around to taming deathclaws

BoS get fucked

[winged aspen]

blows up radroach with mind

[sterile stone]

Same with most other wildlife...

[median steeple]

Enclave are stupid most part

the brotherhood except for NV and 1 always has the support of the local populace

[frosty herald]

The midwest brotherhood was the strongest BOS faction

[median steeple]

they are semi canonical now

they exist we just don't know what they're doing iirc

[sterile stone]

What....

People were dead ass pissed the BoS were demanding taxes or tribute for them to defend their lands...

What do you mean

[winged aspen]

They’re shoving forks into toasters

[sterile stone]

That's even a whole side quest to go shake down farms

For food

[median steeple]

That's not official policy and only Teagan is on it

[frosty herald]

The bos does that quite regularly

[median steeple]

he literally says it's off the books and he'll get in trouble if found out

[frosty herald]

All chapters look for supply routes amd new recruits in every town they come across

[median steeple]

Maxson is harsher than lyons yes but he isn't stupid enough to make an enemy of the entire commonwealth only the institute which no one likes and the railroad who don't really matter

[sterile stone]

Outside of fallout 3 with Lyon's pride, the BoS being friendly to locals is def not normal...

[copper hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/myavu-myavumon-kp-gif-24689642

[sterile stone]

As seen by the outcast

[median steeple]

Fallout 2 is when the BOS were at their height and they were a part of the NCR

[misty ravine]

It's the post-post-apocalypse, everyone is gonna be paying protection money to someone (House would absolutely demand some kind of "free market based quid pro quo for services rendered which are definitely not taxes because taxes are theft")

[median steeple]

Trust me guys tribute isn't taxes

Blow up house and blow up the legion

[sterile stone]

House wasn't all that great but his policy was more or less

I'll leave you alone as long as you don't have something I want

Wether that be an object or land to expand my territory.

[misty ravine]

I guess once you have robots that are numerous enough and capable enough you don't really need people anymore

[median steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1277023294108864619/1348792216209985700/IMG_3971.mov?ex=67d0c023&is=67cf6ea3&hm=bbefd595d6035f5b5780d628f5b45fba13874e3825bb86a47580b802b4b3074f&

[sterile stone]

Cut content for NV was showing the place being rebuilt with construction equipment

So fuck knows what woulda happened post game.

Maybe his speech about going to the stars was utter shit

[median steeple]

depends on who you choose since it's also cut that you could make house join the NCR as a state

[sterile stone]

Yeah but isn't he allowed autonamy as long as taxes are paid?

[median steeple]

but I wouldn't believe most of what says

[misty ravine]

House could have rebuilt with full knowledge of prewar tech, he'd be playing Civ (and then Alpha Centuari) pretty much uncontested

[fleet zealot]

the i want was a big catch

do what you will as long as I don't disagree

[sterile stone]

I agree and disagree.

[misty ravine]

At least until he ran into some comparably strong nation outside North America but we have no idea if one even exists IIRC. Do we know how well China made it through the war?

[sterile stone]

Like I feel like House would have 100% rebuilt vegas in the general area.

[median steeple]

yeah it was supposed to happen if the courier destroys the forts securitrons and he would join the NCR with some autonomy if he developed tech for them

[sterile stone]

I don't think he'd give enough of a shit to fix the entire mojave.

[median steeple]

China prob got hit just as hard as the US

[acoustic dune]

eyey zealot

[sterile stone]

Neat

[acoustic dune]

did you

[median steeple]

and is prob worse since there was a full on invasion of US troops in China

[acoustic dune]

piss your pants

[sterile stone]

The Chinese submarine Captain hinted that it may be salvageable.

A fallout outside America woulda been cool.

[acoustic dune]

blud US troop prob would die in china for how shit quality air china has

[median steeple]

We have characters from Europe like tenpenny who came over post war

[misty ravine]

Even if he really did want to go to the stars and wasn't all that interested in ruling people, he would need way more resources (territory) and industrial base (large and well-ordered society) so he'd need to nation-build anyways

[median steeple]

I don't remember what he said what the UK is like however

[sterile stone]

Shame he fell off that balcony at the towers.

[median steeple]

I kill everyone in that tower

[sterile stone]

Musta been a strong gust of wind that day.

[median steeple]

both sides suck ass

[sterile stone]

Yeaaah

Roy isn't any better.

[median steeple]

Hmmm who do I choose? the racists or the racists

[misty ravine]

He went to FO3's Washington DC when he could have gone fucking anywhere else if he was forced out of the UK

[sterile stone]

I mean if we're being realistic right...

He doesn't have to worry about the building mats.

Send bots in to clear the quarry

[median steeple]

But I think Europe is slightly better off than the NA and Asia

still really shit and post apoc

[sterile stone]

Open trade negotiations with the NCR since he planned on blaming the general as a rogue element

[median steeple]

but not as bad as being hit with hundreds of nukes

[sterile stone]

Anything House couldn't naturally produce, he'd more than likely use his busniess sense to scheme a deal.

[misty ravine]

Prewar Europe and Middle East were already devastated by war IIRC

[median steeple]

the ME was nuked I know that

[sterile stone]

Russia got absolutely fucked from all sides

[median steeple]

but mainland Europe yeah normal war and shit it seems

[sterile stone]

Cause it was the last place with natural resources

[median steeple]

Europe was already collapsing before the nukes fell

[copper hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/greek-god-for-honor-hop-on-for-honor-gif-25931384

[median steeple]

I still think it would prob be a bit better than NA however

[sterile stone]

The only sad part is Canada didn't sink into the ocean like it should have

[median steeple]

sorry pookie I'm eating chicken

I can in a sec

[copper hawk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1164838809641426944/1345562115926265966/SPOILER_ezgif-88b37b738d7401.gif

[winged aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-warhammer-40k-warhammer-darktide-40k-darktide-darktide-hop-on-gif-2811485802013261479

[sterile stone]

Best bit tho

[median steeple]

For King Gunn and his Mounties

[sterile stone]

Benny was going to die no matter what he did.

House knew Benny was backstabbing him

So even if he made it past Caesar

[rose trout]

what weapon should i try on this class

[median steeple]

thunder hammer is pretty fun

same with relic blade

[sterile stone]

House woulda deaded him the moment he activted those bots and stepped back on the strip.

[rose trout]

i use DS on psyker and power sword on vet I love power sword it’s my fav melee ever

[rose trout]

is it the same one on psyker?

[median steeple]

It's a power sword instead of a force sword so no, it has a different special mode

diff moveset as well

[rose trout]

oh even better

i like power sword on veteran

[median steeple]

it's a bit diff from that

[carmine falcon]

go big boi style
relic blade
crusher
evisrator
thunder hammer

bonk some mfs

you'll be slow but it doesnt matter cause these just nuke things

[rose trout]

like a 2 handed heavy one?

[carmine falcon]

its two handed with special powered mode

u dont lose your charges as easily and can land waaaaaaaay more hits

has 2 marks that are super good

[broken walrus]

Oh boi, that reminds me, Large Fish are fixing power sword so its stops losing charge when I get tickled by a pox

[rose trout]

oooo

i’ll use that

[copper hawk]

@median steeple i was in match

i join u now

[median steeple]

I inv you now

[ornate bone]

Aaaaaand the computer crashed

Thought I fixed my problem

Im so fucking sad

[copper hawk]

@median steeple i play 1 more

Then i tf2

[median steeple]

okie dokie

[fleet zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-dance-funny-chromakopia-tyler-the-creator-gif-12022947787898630595

[median steeple]

shar

[formal umbra]

I HATE GLORIANA!!!!!

Ok that's all

[hearty nebula]

zomg hai cicaaaa :3c

[copper hawk]

hai

[fleet zealot]

the puddle

[quiet mango]

THIS MEME TERRIBLE NO OGRYN 1 STAR

[fleet zealot]

wrong chat, the slab channel is two slots down

[quiet mango]

I know

[fleet zealot]

massage+ surprise camera inspection

@acoustic dune

[acoustic dune]

https://tenor.com/view/good-morning-wake-up-wakey-wakey-awaken-gif-26734899

is racism back?

[misty ravine]

Yes
||Racism against Bulwarks||
||All Fucking Bulwarks Must Fucking Hang||

[fleet zealot]

no 😡

[acoustic dune]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-cat-sad-cat-me-when-i-dont-get-orod-tickets-gif-13399313231964052110

anyhow watching a film

called child 44

[hushed knoll]

Omg hi wolfy

[acoustic dune]

ey stan...

what did you eat?

[hushed knoll]

What's poppin

Chicken and vegetables

[acoustic dune]

not soda

wheres proof

[hushed knoll]

[hushed knoll]

You don't trust me?

[fleet zealot]

stan

[acoustic dune]

shit wrong one

[acoustic dune]

reminder

that this man is a teacher

[placid fiber]

What?

How?

[placid fiber]

How do you burn your mouth on a salad?

[clever swan]

perhaps sauce or peppers

[sterile stone]

https://tenor.com/view/hold-on-wtf-surprised-pikachu-gif-19719769

[mint brook]

yo guys, what is the point of one thammer over another

[fleet zealot]

crucis, simpler, biggest damage on activated heavies

[placid fiber]

ironhelm cleaves through hordes on special

[fleet zealot]

ironhelm, cleaves through non elite/non specialists while activated, less single target damage, weird moveset (H3 is an overhead)

[placid fiber]

h3 does 10% less damage than the crucis

h1 and h2 does 20% less

[mint brook]

is there any ranged weapon that can go nuts with shoudfield?

[plush estuary]

guaranteed crits

and finesse

[mint brook]

besides the revolver tho

cause ofc that thing is strong

[atomic matrix]

question folks: is just me or:
1-Eviserator feels like its not pulling as much power on swings that are oddly slow, specially compared with competition of the relic blade, doesnt feel it does something better
2-why it feels to me that Evi performs better with Inexorable judgement in terms of damage vs Blazin pietry? isnt it supposed to perform better with crit?

[plush estuary]

something like the mk3 needs crits for the blessing

[sterile basalt]

1. yes it's nowhere as good as relic blade
2. no it has innately mediocre finesse scaling, so technically IJ would scale a lot better if u have enough crit to sustain IoD

[plush estuary]

perfect strike (?)

mk15 takes IJ

[sterile basalt]

relic blade has dW almost equal to its Bdmg, whereas eviscerators' dW is only ~1/3 of its Bdmg

[atomic matrix]

"it has innately mediocre finesse(...)" REALY?!! so that explains why
but really sucks that it doesnt has something where it is better than the relic blade, thats really awful power creep

[plush estuary]

welcome to

[sterile basalt]

yea well, relic blade is basically karsolas half the time

[atomic matrix]

that's...terribly true, but even then stuff like branx has a place

[sterile basalt]

branx has a niche

eviscerator's niche is being noisy and not very practical

but they can be fun

[carmine falcon]

evis niche is wanting to wield a big ass chainsword

[atomic matrix]

def feels better with IJ, but it sucks how it lacks a good niche to fill

[carmine falcon]

i mean mk3 is the "Bad" one
other one is not bad at all

it makes horde clear a joke

and can 1 shot everything with special

its just wonky to use

[sterile basalt]

XV's horde clear is still mid

cleave dmg distribution capped at 4

[carmine falcon]

true however it feels very safe to use

also braindead ez

[misty nova]

[carmine falcon]

u just spam m1

[sterile basalt]

yea u basically play smite as a melee weapon

[misty nova]

Too bad they removed the noise bug

[carmine falcon]

its so braindead i never play it

[sterile basalt]

unfortunately light atk can't stagger rager

[carmine falcon]

they need to rework the entire shred special imo

getting stuck on 1 enemy doesnt fit the game they're making

[hushed knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/shame-on-you-gif-25797108

[atomic matrix]

active should not hide its biggest burst of damage to the end, it should be all equal ticks imo

[sterile basalt]

make chain weapons great again

[hushed knoll]

[carmine falcon]

why not give it the same style as relic's power mechanic

where u activate it and for a short period the evis goes crazy

and kills things faster

instead of this wonky af getting stuck on 1 enemy at a time

[atomic matrix]

it would be nice if getting stuck would DECIMATE stuff, but you have to wait the full rev to get good benefit

which sucks imo

if you cut it for half the time it should be half the damage, not less

[misty nova]

Hehe funny sawing barrels hehe

[mint brook]

does the sniper shotgun special have some sort of bonus on crit or weakspot?

[sterile basalt]

what kind of bonus are you thinking

[mint brook]

to heads and crits

[sterile basalt]

yea, what kind of bonus are u thinking

damage?

[mint brook]

i am looking for a nice shroudfield weapon that isnt the damn revolver

yes damage

[sterile basalt]

why

[mint brook]

cause it is boring to me that every best loadout is reolver ds

i want variety in my builds

[sterile basalt]

relic blade + boltgun

crusher + boltgun

[mint brook]

wait the boltgun has a good finesse/crit modif?

[sterile basalt]

why do u need shroudfield is more my question

abysmal pathing

[mint brook]

variety

i tend to do wel in difficulties even on bad builds

so i just like to have fun with them

[sterile basalt]

go knife + DB shotgun at that point tbh

[sterile basalt]

yea since like 2023

[carmine falcon]

play crusher las pistol

very fun

[mint brook]

so i am currently using the crucis thunder hammer

so i think more hordeclear is needed no?

[light badge]

Do you guys appreciate Brittleness on a team?

[fleet zealot]

not really

like maybe a dclaw or heavysword user would

if we want rending, we bring rending ourselves

none of our bis melee takes brittleness and the only range that takes brittleness is bolter and an offmeta flamer

[visual stream]

Flamer is good for thammer

I use bolter though

[light badge]

Reason I ask is because I've been bringing rending Shockwave on trauma as of late. Wondering how significant it actually is

[fleet zealot]

just go blazing nexus

[light badge]

But then my team doesn't get to play the game because everything just dies

[mint brook]

question, is the middle tree suppose to be an arch exorcist?

[light badge]

Ideally I wanna play staff for the unique ranged options they offer, but I don't wanna just hard carry the lobby by existing

[mint brook]

i mean, they use the same weird bookstaff

[sterile basalt]

it's mainly for DOT
good players tend to not rely on weapons that have abysmally low ADMs

[light badge]

That implies I'd be relying on it

Currently it's more of an a tool for "nah, fuck this crusher pack" than anything else

[misty nova]

Sure
Just on the wrong Ordo

💀

[sterile basalt]

I don't think brittleness even changes VB's own dmg to carapace much?

it's really just for team & DOT

[mint brook]

what do you mean with wrong ordo?

[light badge]

It doesn't

I think VB already pierces carapace so at max stacks it's like

A 4% damage boost

But it does apply to your melee as well, so yknow

Uncanny FGS

[misty nova]

Arch Exorcists are usually on the Ordo Malleus
Darktide is using the Ordo Hereticus

[placid fiber]

ordo malleus hereticus

[mint brook]

thanks, i will check that, i just am kinda spying things out, did the ogryn rework, checking if i could cook something up for zealots

[fleet zealot]

i curse you with ogryn that fires achlys twin stubber into carapace

no rending

just the worst noise ever

[fleet zealot]

Banisher

[misty nova]

Tbf Daemonhunters assist the inquisitors of the Ordo Hereticus, so it's not that far fetched

[mint brook]

yeah banisher sounds also like a possibility

[light badge]

Tink Tink Tink Tink Tink Tink Tink Tink Tink "oi, don't shoot the armor!"

[placid fiber]

Too far, my good ferret. No one deserves such punishment

[mint brook]

but image wise, that is basically 1 to 1 an arch exorcist

[fleet zealot]

it's not a possibility

it's true

the careers the branches represent are in order left to right

Preacher, Banisher, Death Cult Assassin/Death Cultist

[mint brook]

is there some sort of hand to fist evidence?

[fleet zealot]

how they are referred to in the code

[mint brook]

i mean i have never seen any real names being dropped

[mint brook]

https://tenor.com/view/what-what-the-wtf-gif-3476774913201216304

[fleet zealot]

i mean it's more so a lack of not looking for your part

veteran is sharpshooter, squad leader, commando

psyker i'm going to honest is nerdy witch shit i can't remember the order

[mint brook]

how am i supposed to find that in the code tho

i am a game designer, not a data miner

[fleet zealot]

ogryn is skullbreaker, bullgryn, and gunlugger

[fleet zealot]

no you look at what people post, specifically the dataminers

[mint brook]

i did look

and everyone says something different

[fleet zealot]

people with guesses/opinions<> people who actually know

[mint brook]

and how can i know the people who know

[placid fiber]

they post ferrets

[fleet zealot]

the dataminers

lol

[placid fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-attack-gif-24550066

[fleet zealot]

these names have been accessed information since patch 13

[placid fiber]

(I don't know shit about data mining)

[fleet zealot]

it's just not referred directly in game and isn't universal knowledge

[misty nova]

You know, they usually let arch Exorcists study the heretical scriptures, maybe that's why we collect grims

[fleet zealot]

but I can assure you, that is what the middle branch is

[misty nova]

Hmmm 🤔

[mint brook]

took a screenshot for future reference

seems like not all is a direct reference to warhammer tho

like squad leader ... okay?

[fleet zealot]

it is tho

on the tabletop

[placid fiber]

bullgryn definitely is lol

[fleet zealot]

the squad leader who is the leader unit

[mint brook]

there is a boat load of squad leaders tho

[fleet zealot]

for a squad of models

yes

because it's a very generic role

[mint brook]

ah

[fleet zealot]

and the voicelines mock commisars so it can't be one of those

[mint brook]

makes sense

and commando?

[placid fiber]

I find it funny one is commando lol

[fleet zealot]

it's veteran lol they aren't going to go regiment specific

[mint brook]

grumble

[placid fiber]

death cult assassin sounds badass

[mint brook]

just sad we dont have the signature blades they use

closest is kinda the ds

and heavy sword

[misty nova]

Voice of Command being a literal rule

"If your Army Faction is Astra Militarum, Officer models from your army with this ability can issue orders."

Blah blah blah

[fleet zealot]

i found peak

[misty nova]

"Duty and Honor! Improve the leadership and objective control characteristics of models in this unity by 1"

Which somehow translates to golden toughness

💀

[fleet zealot]

come one

why did it not embed

there we go

utter peak

[mint brook]

Stolen

Mine now

[fleet zealot]

i mean i'm not the creator so

no honor among thieves i guess

[mint brook]

Could have been suppression imunity

[fleet zealot]

😔

[mint brook]

I give you 2 rations of corpse starch

As compensation

[misty nova]

They would probably have used "Take Aim! Improves Ballistic Skills by 1"

[mint brook]

Accuracy and recoil improvement

[fleet zealot]

this is what i imagine fatshark has to deal with

from GW

🤓

[mint brook]

nah

alot of companies love to overstate how much gw is on their ass

but in a lot of cases it shows that they arent

SM 2 is a shining example

they usually are controling upon a games a initial release and development

like sm 2 was the final straw to convince me this whole "gw is watching us" is just usually a big excuse and rooted in half trueths

[sterile stone]

[mint brook]

lmfao

[light badge]

Nothing makes me happier than spamming trauma explosions at the feet of the gamer doing the auspex mini game

[mint brook]

am i missing something?

[ornate bone]

I've played with a few people that seem to get the mini game done instantly

Don't know how

Just randos

[light badge]

No?

Stand-alone statement

[fleet zealot]

Ehh

Favoritism exists

Space marines are generally, the protagonists

[mint brook]

there is favourtism and there is pattern recognition

[fleet zealot]

Kruber’s grenade launcher

[mint brook]

it isnt a secret warhammer games had for the longest time poor quality of varying degrees with only most recently them becoming better

[misty nova]

Like Torrent weapons being guaranteed to hit or something but not in Darktide 💀

[fleet zealot]

I really think you are underestimating the fact that different people in gw can have different strictness towards specific games

Mobile games and sm2 can get away with a lot,

[mint brook]

yes, but it has been said that they had to redo darn ankle bolts of space marine armor, so needless to say they are/were VERY strict on warhammer 💀

[fleet zealot]

While vt1 and vt2 gets specific weapons “no lol” limited because of very small reason

[fleet zealot]

It depends on the person and what part you mean

I feel like you are oversimplifying the issue massively

Based on just sm2

[mint brook]

maybe i am, but i take issue for example locking dlc behind dlc sort of

[fleet zealot]

Thats

Thats not even related

What

[mint brook]

well, it is, let me explain

[fleet zealot]

Im going to bed u hurt my brain to talk to

Quality control and lore accuracy is 2 different things that have some overlap

[mint brook]

in space marine 2, you got multiple dlcs, we got recently the dark angels and the ravenguard dlc, ranvenguard by manual arent really said to use numerics for shoulderpads, thing is, the ravenguard dlc is using the dark angels numerics, meaning you have to pay both to have the full dark angels pack

which is both lore innacurate, and poor quality control, considering labels are even named falsely

[delicate shadow]

it's case by case.

[mint brook]

oh it is

but by pattern, that control relenquishes by the time the game is out for a solid 3 months or so

the only, and i mean only area where there is factual proof gw is more stingint is total war warhammer 3

cause they show usually concept art they have done in collaberation with GW

i care about receipts, and total war seems to be the only one posting them

i can however believe that FS is working with gw on a case by case base

depending on what is being done

[fleet zealot]

He deleted or blocked after this

Ogryn doomers are peak

[mint brook]

who is that?

[fleet zealot]

Not going to show name

Reddit ogryn update doomer

[mint brook]

oh, fair, sorry, curisoity is usually my fortee

[fleet zealot]

I disagreed with the take that ogryn getting barge did nothing

[mint brook]

think is, and i say it again, ogryn update might still see him as the worst class, but that imo is not anyone wanted, we all wanted ogryn to be close or in the pack of the rest

and i think the rework might just have achieved that

[fleet zealot]

When in fact it will be extremely useful for ogryn and not just for the main feature of dodging overheads and specials

[mint brook]

barge is what again?

dodge knock?

[fleet zealot]

Dodge through non elites non specialists staggered and knocked back from your dodges

[mint brook]

yeah, nvm, that is useful

[fleet zealot]

Also ogryn already has 2 builds that are easily in the top of the meta

[mint brook]

dont know about you, but humans like to doom say lots of things, emotions usually take priority over factual evidience

[fleet zealot]

The issue the update is targeting is build variety

[mint brook]

i really would never claim anything he has is top of meta

[fleet zealot]

Both shield and karsolas

[mint brook]

VOC, purge staff vent shriek and chorus/FoTF are just way too good for that

[mint brook]

they are the top of ogryn weapons yes

[fleet zealot]

Are top meta, with karsolas being more offmeta because of role rather than performance

No, shield with taunt on block is amazing

H2 has infinte cleave so it scales into havoc h1 dealing a ton of damage but still having high cleave

Stacking rending and bleed while making ranged enemies irrelevant just by blocking cause taunted ranged enemies are non threats for the duration

[mint brook]

idk man, comparin shield and carsolas to something like crusher, combat blade or even relic blade seems, a bit too highly spoken

[fleet zealot]

Taunt- Ability is basically soft melee invulnerability for your team since enemies will just ignore them

Lol what

Karsolas is a melee machine that out performs relic and needs no activation

[mint brook]

yes, but that is just looking at the upsides

[fleet zealot]

And shield is insanely consistent and taunt on block vs ranged is massive

[spare talon]

its downsides is low mobility

which relic also shares

[misty nova]

2 dodges go brrr

[mint brook]

yes but much higher attack speed and less issues vs high density mixed hordes

[fleet zealot]

Not really

Zealots sacrifice a lot of their attack speed

For havoc

Unless they are in a premade that they can ignore shit like chorus

[mint brook]

like, i can see post rework that pickaxe might be s

[fleet zealot]

It already is lol

[mint brook]

but i see just too many issues with that are attached to ogryn to call pickaxe S

[maiden forge]

Once again if we are talking about orgyn balance

A Flat 100+ damage to all their melee weapons

[delicate shadow]

pickaxes are actually kinda busted lol

[fleet zealot]

Im not shitting you karsolas ogryn is perfect for melee invulnerability a premade and shield+taunt is a pub carrier

[mint brook]

oh yeah, if zealot had it it would be disgusting

[fleet zealot]

Dear god no

[maiden forge]

I call it balance

[fleet zealot]

Eww

[delicate shadow]

I mean on ogryn it's disgusting too lol

[mint brook]

but thats not how you can rate pickaxes, since they are ogryn specific

[fleet zealot]

No it’s not giving kars and shield 100 damage would break the game

[mint brook]

it is yeah, but not a zealot level

[fleet zealot]

Ogryn is not that weak

Ogryn lacks choices

[mint brook]

mh ...

[maiden forge]

Ogryns are as strong as space marines you think they would understand their breaking the game

[fleet zealot]

Ogryn does not lack a meta build in any sense

[mint brook]

i do have to disagree on ogryn not being that bad, but to each their own

[maiden forge]

Too dumb ogryn hit thing hard

Protect little guy good job morrow say yay

[mint brook]

in the end we share to castly different opinion and i am not sure one can convince the other

[fleet zealot]

Ogryn issue comes from low options in talents and weapons

Their top tier meta builds are easily on par with the rest for damage and team support

[maiden forge]

Ogryn needs dueling sword fr

(It’s a big bar of metal)

[fleet zealot]

It ain’t a matter of opinion I’m being factual

[sullen forge]

please no more DS weapons for anyone

[maiden forge]

Dueling sword for ogryn when

[misty nova]

That's just mk4

[maiden forge]

(Straight up it’s just a metal pipe)

[delicate shadow]

to be frank, DS4 needed nerfing even back when it was psyker only

DS5 is actually balanced

[sullen forge]

No Aquino you dont understand, psyker is really bad at melee

[fleet zealot]

But my poor innocent psykers lol

[delicate shadow]

I mean I can believe psyker players are dogshit at melee

[mint brook]

then i let you have that opinion, fact is, ogryn is substantially more difficult on h40 than any other class, calling him not that bad i think is just not truethful

[fleet zealot]

It totally wasn’t busted and psykers weren’t just ass in melee

[sullen forge]

the 2 Actual competent melee psykers before rework still dumpstering things with the DS

[maiden forge]

Ok hear me out I know the perfect way to balance ogryn

His taunt has infinite range

[fleet zealot]

Might as well just delete all ranged enemies then

[maiden forge]

Suspiciously shaped slab shield on ogryns back

[sterile basalt]

Karsolas is best melee in game rn, and about to get significantly stronger with update

[mint brook]

as said, not saying the karsolas itself is bad, but more attached to the ogryn

[fleet zealot]

I remember pre dueling swords being unlocked for all classes, i ran scriers DD ds4 melee psyker

[mint brook]

and yes, i said, after rework, basically karsolas issues are gone

[fleet zealot]

And did amazing performance for multiple games

[sterile basalt]

If you’re judging a weapon you should be mainly judging the weapon’s own performance, no?

[sterile dune]

it is?

[mint brook]

yes, but karsolas is strictly tied to ogryn

[maiden forge]

I think the devils claw needs to do infinite damage on the parry

[sullen forge]

Sarcasm

[mint brook]

i said before that if another class had it, like zealot, sure, s tier it is

[fleet zealot]

They aren’t as a class but as a playerbase yes they suck at melee

[sullen forge]

Psyker is insanely strong at melee

[sterile dune]

Ok, I was thinking that but wasn't sure

[mint brook]

but thats not the reality of the game

[fleet zealot]

Ogryn is not that bad at base

[sterile basalt]

Why would that change a weapon’s own rating lol what

[fleet zealot]

You aren’t being realistic

[sterile dune]

Yeah I know for a fact my psyker is overtuned in some ways

but I actually think its more that other classes are undertuned in some ways

[mint brook]

zealot has access ot easier damage buffs, attack speed and the such

[sullen forge]

Yesn't

[fleet zealot]

Yes ogryn has issues but ogryn has some ridic buffs

[sterile dune]

I pretty strictly play zealot and psyker only at this point

[sullen forge]

its more just Psyker leans heavily into nuking things at the cost of taking a shit load of damage

[fleet zealot]

And ogryn weapons generally have better cleave, base damage and hurtbox areas

[sterile dune]

yeah I think psyker is high risk high reward, just comes with a high skill ceiling because of it

[fleet zealot]

Oh and stagger

[mint brook]

i mean yes they do, but also come attached to the class that generally has lower dodges and speed on an already slow weapon

[sterile dune]

ogryn also comes with large hit box

[sterile basalt]

Then you’re not looking at weapon on its own

You’re looking at class overall strength

[misty nova]

(and the best pushes)

[mint brook]

but a weapon attached to a class only, literally contributes to its power level ..

[fleet zealot]

Karsolas with no attack speed on ogryn is already S tier, just with the keystone attack speed and charge it is easily S++ tier minimum and will be even more insane next update

[sterile basalt]

Judge a weapon by the weapon, simple

[broken walrus]

@I read that as plushies, and now I want an ogryn Plushie

[mint brook]

but thats not really how the game works, it has to be attached to a character

[sterile basalt]

It’s really how the game works, you can very easily judge a weapon by how the weapon intrinsically functions

Yes it’s available to a class

What’s that gotta do with how strong the weapon is

[fleet zealot]

I think you are buying too much into the ogryn slander that’s been going around

[mint brook]

well as i said, the weapon would be s tier on other classes, so thats literally me saying that the weapon itself is great

[sterile basalt]

Everything u have on the class scales from the weapon’s own performance

[mint brook]

like i dont know what else to say

[sterile dune]

It has everything to do with how strong the weapon is because there are zero cases where the weapon is used without the class attached

[fleet zealot]

They are not as weak as you think as a baseline class

[sterile basalt]

So look at the weapon’s own performance

Which I know you refuse to

[fleet zealot]

But it’s already S tier on ogryn lol

[delicate shadow]

pickaxe ogryn and shield ogryn are 100% H40 viable and honestly people saying it doesn't compete with human classes in that regard are kinda just skissuing

[sterile dune]

That's like arguing about a cars performance using horsepower at the crank and not factoring in the weight of the car and drivetrain loss

[mint brook]

well, thats not the discussion though, i think everyone would agree, at least i hope

[sterile dune]

It's basically moot to discuss a weapon without considering how the classes use them

[fleet zealot]

Ogryn’s issues are variety, choice, options; and a bit of mechanics when it comes to dodging and getting shot at

[mint brook]

shield and piackaxe are literally his h40 weapons

[fleet zealot]

Shield solves the getting shot at part easily

[sterile basalt]

Everything the class has scales directly from the weapon’s intrinsic stats, and those intrinsic stats don’t magically change if they’re made available to different classes

[fleet zealot]

But they are not weak helpless babies

[sterile dune]

I think shield should come with a few melee options

[sterile basalt]

You can very easily judge from those intrinsic stats

[mint brook]

nobody is saying that

[sterile dune]

I'm pretty sure they balance the weapon a bit based on what classes can use it though

[fleet zealot]

And to double down, there aren’t a lot of havoc 40 viable weapons in the first place

[delicate shadow]

I'm saying that, Ogryn is a weak hapless lil bubby boy

[fleet zealot]

Dueling sword and relic is what 80/20% of your zealots going to be

[sterile basalt]

Yes, and with that in consideration, Karsolas is still the strongest melee in the game

[sterile dune]

Yeah I agree

[sterile basalt]

Even if Ogryn’s talent kit doesn’t exist, and Karsolas & every other melee weapon all existed on a hypothetical class with no specific talents

Karsolas is still the best melee

[fleet zealot]

Yea ds4 comes with having ridic single target without being that punished for horde clear

Karsolas is just ridic

For everything

[sterile basalt]

You straight up have BM-adjacent cleave damage distribution

Without having to use BM

?????

It can stagger every enemy besides mutant and boss

Stagger groups of ragers and maulers at once

[sterile dune]

I think more ogryn weapons should have this type of capability really

[mint brook]

combat blades, relic blade, crusher, obscorus, deimos, i think thats quiet a lot of option

[sterile dune]

probably more fine tuned but they need to lean in on unique identity and capability of the ogryn

[mint brook]

ofc there is ds, but ds is unfair

[fleet zealot]

Not really in a perfect world where fatshark had the staff to do biweekly patches

[sterile basalt]

The only other melee that has anywhere near that level of power is combat axe which intrinsically needs BM to function properly and has nowhere near the same base damage, cleave or stagger

[fleet zealot]

None of those come close to karsolas ngl

Crusher has the stagger and flexibility

[sterile basalt]

Relic blade is quite literally Karsolas 0.5

[fleet zealot]

It doesn’t have the raw damage

Relic needs to be powered on

[sterile basalt]

Karsolas is relic blade if it was always on and has better cleave damage distribution

[long oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/woolly-mice-genetically-engineered-woolly-mice-gif-7192898800335532118

[fleet zealot]

Combat blade is the same as dueling sword and is so single target and mobility focused

[mint brook]

yes but comes on a much more agile class that can deal with its short comings tho

[sterile basalt]

Buddy. Look at the weapons’ intrinsic stats lmao

Why don’t you say what if relic blade was available on ogryn?

Why do u have to try to assume Karsolas being available to a different class for it to be S tier?

[mint brook]

it would fare worse honestly

[sterile basalt]

Exactly because it’s inherently weaker than Karsolas

[mint brook]

but thats not my point?

[sterile basalt]

Now take a deep breath and just start to analyze weapons’ intrinsic stats

[mint brook]

relic blade is great because it is strictly attached to zealot

[fleet zealot]

Vold

Please

Veteran steam guide has all the numbers

You are arguing feels

[mint brook]

uh?

[sterile basalt]

I don’t have all the numbers

In fact I know Karsolas is not the highest in several metrics

[fleet zealot]

Ur the numbers person

[sterile basalt]

But it’s top tier in everything

And the only other melee that’s similarly top tier in everything is combat axe

[native whale]

hey iv been looking at the thunder hammer is it a good weapon?

[fleet zealot]

Im going to bed cause this conversation brain hurty

[mint brook]

but almost no one uses it tho

[fleet zealot]

Everything is a good weapon currently until you get into high havocs

[mint brook]

maybe thats cause ds brainrot still exists

[fleet zealot]

Usage<>how good it is

[sterile basalt]

Since when did popularity dictate strength

[fleet zealot]

I swear to the god emperor

I remember launch months

Revolver sucked complete ass

Hit no breakpoints

[maiden forge]

Las guns

[fleet zealot]

People still used it for the speed and style

[maiden forge]

Over hundreads of billion people are using it so it’s gotta be good

[sterile basalt]

Chainsword is popular on veteran
Chainsword is also ultra mid on veteran

[mint brook]

actually it often correlates, i mean check every other competetive game, the only things that dont get used often even though they are insanely strong, is due to ease of access, which imo rashad doesnt suffer from?

[sullen forge]

@spare talon The fuck happened that match LMAO

[sterile basalt]

Correlation is not connection

[spare talon]

someone i know joins my game
instantly start sucking

a tale as old as time

[mint brook]

yes but there is also pattern recognition

[sterile basalt]

You can have people gravitate towards what they like, that’s normal

Pattern recognition also doesn’t mean direct connection

[sullen forge]

Look I ate shit from a horde draining my stamina and a Mauler moon walking to me

[fleet zealot]

The human mind looks for patterns when there isn’t any

[sullen forge]

so I also started sucking out of no where

[sterile basalt]

You’re trying to argue null points to try to prove a null point

[mint brook]

doesnt have to be indeed

[mint brook]

i mean idk how what i say is a null point

[fleet zealot]

Rashad is also exceedingly boring and has been meta for over a year now

[sterile basalt]

Karsolas is not S tier cuz it’s on ogryn only?

Is that not what you’ve been saying

[fleet zealot]

Dueling sword is relatively much fresher

[sterile basalt]

You said it would have been S tier if it’s on zealot

[sullen forge]

THATS WHAT I JOINED INTO LMAO

[mint brook]

i start to feellike the issue is, that i do not say karsolas is strict s and instead introduce nuance

[sterile basalt]

But it’s already beating out zealot’s best density scaling melee by a pretty wide margin

[fleet zealot]

Dueling sword has more mobility which is desirable for players because it feels good as a stat

[sullen forge]

I JUST NOTICED LIKE WAY TO MANY GUNNERS IN PLAY AND IMMEDIATELY TOOK ACTION

[mint brook]

i said multiple times that it would be s if it wasnt stuck on a class that can currently no compensate for the weapons shortcomings

[sterile basalt]

What’s the shortcoming of it

[spare talon]

i was trying to deal with them but the ogryn gets netted and the burster is in the "you take damage but cant push" sweetspot and strips my toughness while 1 gunner just stunlocks me

literally fucking melee psyker moment

[sterile basalt]

I’m genuinely curious what’s the shortcoming of Karsolas

[mint brook]

can get stuck into dense mixed hordes and is a very slow weapon on a class that is slow and can not annulate the weapons said shortcoming, which the rework will do

[sullen forge]

ermm... should've had EE up...

even though that would not have mattered

[sterile basalt]

No, what’s the weapon’s shortcoming

[sullen forge]

Burstered would've given the gunner enough time to empty a Salvo on you

[sterile basalt]

That’s an intrinsic weapon performance

[mint brook]

i literally said what it is

[sterile basalt]

You didn’t tho

[mint brook]

okay, honestly, what game is being played here

[sterile basalt]

“A very slow weapon on a slow class”

If you wanted to say like, a specific shortcoming

There’s really only one

[spare talon]

ok but look at this awesomesauce scoreboard

[sterile basalt]

It doesn’t have great boss dps

[mint brook]

come on

[spare talon]

bump those numbers up gale smh

[sterile basalt]

But then again optimal Karsolas has unyielding

[sullen forge]

SMH DOGSHIT VETERAN

[sterile basalt]

So it ends up being pretty similar to Rashad

[sullen forge]

Joined with nearly a full wound

[sterile basalt]

Which is top tier boss damage

[sullen forge]

unsure who I swapped with but it gave me that HP

[sterile basalt]

So really there’s no particular shortcoming

[mint brook]

like you literally quoted me which named a weakness, this is just getting a bit irritating

[sterile basalt]

Karsolas is not a slow weapon

[mint brook]

how is that weapon not slow

[sterile basalt]

You can only be slow with it if you refuse to change combo beyond heavy spam in order to deny attacks

[mint brook]

its still a slow weapon tho, even tho one of its combos is the fastest it has

[sterile basalt]

You can say it’s like, slow attack speed

But in the major performance metrics

Top tier horde clear

Top tier mixed horde clear

Top tier carapace dps

Top tier group stagger

Extremely high defense

[plush estuary]

hows its base cleave?

[sterile basalt]

18

On heavy atk

[mint brook]

yes on a class that is slow to get anywhere compared to other classes and generally gets hit easily, the last think you want is even more damage

[sterile basalt]

Sweep

[plush estuary]

Thanks

[sterile basalt]

6.75 on light sweep

Which is still quite high

For how fast they are

[plush estuary]

yeah

car is just too strong

shrimple as

[sterile basalt]

Light sweep 1~3 is literally Rashad light atk without BM and with good cleave

[sterile basalt]

The only case where slow attack speed is actually punishing is if you don’t have high cleave or stagger to compensate

Which doesn’t exist in its case

[long oasis]

why karsolas over branx?

[sterile basalt]

You can get punished with a combat axe because u don’t have cleave

You have to be trying to get punished with a Karsolas

[mint brook]

how are we talking averages?
Cause theaverage class doesnt have noticably lower speed and dodges or hit box increases

[sullen forge]

ACHLYS HAVING BARELY HIGHER CLEAVE!!! USE IT!!!!! 🗣️

Its totally not abysmal dogshit!

[mint brook]

which also weighs into a slow weapon

[sterile basalt]

It’s actually lower

[sullen forge]

STILL USE IT!!!!

🗣️

[sterile basalt]

Achlys combat axe has a bunch of attacks with 0.001 cleave

Including its H1

[heady rapids]

cause I don't like branx

[sullen forge]

Thats fucking BADASS

[heady rapids]

simple as

[mint brook]

easier to use, faster, feels like better horde clear, can sorta do branx's job

[sullen forge]

.001 cleave

[sterile basalt]

With an 18 base cleave weapon that staggers even rager on body hit (with sufficient headtaker stacks), you have to really try to get punished by a fast attacking mixed horde

Outside of ragers idk what you can get punished for, for having low atk speed

Chaos spawn?

Even then Karsolas is superior to most others cuz

1. You’ll have unyielding perk so actual boss dps ends up pretty similar to Rashad
2. You have way more stamina for blocking combos

Karsolas innate stamina is +6

[mint brook]

yes, but why not then pick a faster class that can get to point a and b quicker with lower, but comparable clear speed?

[sterile basalt]

Again, you’re trying to drag classes into a comparison between weapons’ base performance

[sterile basalt]

What are you even comparing it to in this example

[mint brook]

relic blade

[sterile basalt]

That’s a great comparison because relic blade loses in every metric besides boss I’m pretty sure

So you only run faster

[mint brook]

a zealot on FoTF will be basically wherere ogryn wants to be on a more consistent base, sure the one thing i CAN give you is that it is miles better against ogryns, but i can just go to one point kill it, and go to the next, with the ogryn lacking behind

[copper hawk]

Less stamina, same dodges as well - less horde clear damage, less cleave damage, similar heavy attack chain speed actually now that i think about it

[sterile basalt]

Are you trying to argue weapon strength because one guy can sprint ahead to farm damage???

Be serious

[plush estuary]

a good ogryn easily out damages a good zealot

[copper hawk]

Enemies come to you as well

[mint brook]

i mean stamina is less true, but i feel like stamina doesnt matter much for me in combat, might be just a me thing