zealot-class

[rotund shoal]

but the taxes and placement of nodes

[wary kite]

Almost all zealots I see use that

[rotund shoal]

makes it so only a couple of build work

also the auras are dumb af

theres only one aura

[plucky gate]

loner actually needs to be reworked

[rotund shoal]

loner is just a point tax for stealth

[grizzled aspen]

Chorus would be good if it didn't require massive point taxes and shroudfield would be good if it wasn't Diet fotf.

[lapis cave]

but mostly because of its effects on ranged attacks, a hidden effect. It's a 'problem' talent, from a design perspective for a bunch of reasons

[opal star]

and then zealot has what's gotta be THE worst node ever

[plucky gate]

corruption heal has the worst nodes leading up to it

[grizzled aspen]

Unironically, it isn't.

Punishment is.

[rotund shoal]

yeah

[grizzled aspen]

Because you're forced to take punishment.

[rotund shoal]

punishment in a tree with twsb is moronic

[wary kite]

Chorus just has a super long cool down and it does the same thing as VoC but worse

[lapis cave]

disdain is pretty trash, despite providing a little damage

[plucky gate]

some nodes just exist to scam you

[opal star]

at least punishment gives super armor at th-
oH right twbs exists

[grizzled aspen]

Disdain needs to work exactly like hard knocks does on oggy.

[rotund shoal]

disdain is not exactly bad but its in the same place as anoint + purge

[plucky gate]

why does the cdr on taking hp damage a thing that even exists?

[wary kite]

I really like chorus, but fotf is just too good

[rotund shoal]

so it never makes sense to go for it

[rotund shoal]

this as well

[south grove]

is the music some sort of sleeper code

I feel very passive rn

[grizzled aspen]

Right? It would be so much better if it was cdr on toughness damage instead.

[opal star]

cdr on hp damage is nasty work
I thought we're trying NOT to get hit here

then again it's on the martyrdom side so idk

[lapis cave]

eh, it gives you a LOT more breathing room than shout does. Whether that matters depends on your squad

[autumn void]

Wait I just noticed

[rotund shoal]

VOC comes back so quick

[drifting wolf]

beneficent emperor grant me hatred

[grizzled aspen]

Chorus also allows you to just push shit off ledges.

[rotund shoal]

and doesnt stun lock you

[south grove]

WAHHHHHHHHHH

[rotund shoal]

its "breathing room" but at the end youre in the exact same position you were before

[grizzled aspen]

Oh, there's a dh on the catwalk of gloriana?

Get pushed off, idiot.

[autumn void]

Why tf is the left tree on the first split after blitz two tax nodes in a row instead of a node into passive like the other two??

[plucky gate]

chorus with crit cdr is also just really cheesy

[grizzled aspen]

Now you're thinking!

[lapis cave]

if you're below auric and playing with idiots, yes.

[grizzled aspen]

Congratulations!

[south grove]

why does AoS gets all the cool shit

[rotund shoal]

nah auric nowadays too

[autumn void]

Like you got The Emperor’s Bullet and Dance of Death and then just 5% movement speed

[grizzled aspen]

Aurics are full of apes.

So many apes...

[south grove]

ROCK AND STONEEEE

[grizzled aspen]

Smykers...

[lapis cave]

a use of chorus with teammates left standing is potentially a full battle reset if things were going catastrophically wrong.

[wary kite]

With Voc you can pop it and get right back to killing but with chorus you have to hope your window licker teammates do something while you brandish the holy relic of the God Emperor

[plucky gate]

a lot of missions are either survive, or walk from point A to B and interact with things.
Chrous can just walk you through the mission

i took chorus into train and it was the easiest shit ever

[grizzled aspen]

True! But voc does the same thing without point taxes and keeps you in the fight.

[plucky gate]

literally just walk to the end

[grizzled aspen]

So...

[rotund shoal]

but stealth is better for that

[opal star]

I mean
it doesn't give breathing room at all

with VOC it actually pushes non-boss enemies back and floors them, which can form a break that you can slip out of

with chrous.. uh, lmao

[south grove]

GUYS GUYS GUYS

[rotund shoal]

for objectives i mean

[grizzled aspen]

Can't argue that chorus deserves 2 points to be bought.

[lapis cave]

WITH ROCK & STONE YOU'RE NEVER ALONE

[south grove]

I FUCKING PREDICTED IT

[rotund shoal]

stealth lets you do the objective yourself

[acoustic dune]

did someone say rock n stone?

[south grove]

THEY MADE A TANKBUSTA KILL TEAM

[rotund shoal]

chorus means you have to rely on your teammates

[south grove]

I'M NOT FUCKING INSANE

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAA

[plucky gate]

kinda, but stealth doesn't stealth your teammates

[grizzled aspen]

DIS POST HAZ BEEN FAKT CHEKD BY PROPAH ORKY GITZ

[acoustic dune]

this is a lie

[grizzled aspen]

No it isn't.

[plucky gate]

chorus is just a 4 person stealth with a longer cooldown

[rotund shoal]

give an argument

"no youre wrong" isnt exactly a discussion starter

[grizzled aspen]

If you aren't in a situation that you can deal with, alone, then chorus can't help you.

[acoustic dune]

your honour

[south grove]

I'm oding from dopamine rn

[acoustic dune]

nuh uh

[south grove]

next up is a modular boyz kit

[acoustic dune]

but i find that chorus is better has a offensive

[south grove]

I fucking need it

[wary kite]

I just want dreg rager miniatures to make a dreg rager army

[grizzled aspen]

What if... 250 kroot hounds...

[acoustic dune]

like a stun grenade

[south grove]

corpse grinder cult:

[acoustic dune]

stun them and then krill them

[plucky gate]

that's true
But if i play with friends sometimes.
If i want the most effortless way to get a friend through a mission, telling him to follow my chorus build can get us by even if i had a broken hand

[acoustic dune]

run into a horde of gunner stun them and do yo shit

shrimple as that

[plucky gate]

so it depends on if you're solo or duo

[rotund shoal]

yes with premades the entire discussion changes

chorus is great then

[acoustic dune]

plus the pulse is very far

[plucky gate]

chorus has enough contexts where it's great imo

[grizzled aspen]

Chorus needs
-the mandatory point tax node to be baked in
-@hard nexus idea of the fire on every pulse to be an aux node
-combine the other two nodes together for your alternative aux node

[south grove]

looking ass

[lapis cave]

The value of the ability depends on effective teammates, yes. But with effective teammates it's more valuable and keeps your runs safer.

Though it could be argued that with effective teammates you don't need either ability, and that they're both crutches for weak gameplay

[grizzled aspen]

That is the exact point, yes.

[rotund shoal]

with effective teammates the game is very easy on anything but the hardest maelstroms

[plucky gate]

like yeah okay if the team sucks, it's a worse voc
a worse voc is still pretty good, so the worst case isn't even that bad
Best case is it's a free win if even 1 person is good

[south grove]

what the tuna

peak

peakkkkk

peakkkkkkkkk

[grizzled aspen]

And even on the hardest maelstroms your team is hard pressed to get wiped without someone MAJORLY fucking up or the director telling your team, collectively, to fuck themselves.

[tight fog]

very peak

[lapis cave]

which has been my point. It's very, very strong when used correctly, which is why the dev team might have valued it at 2 points, with a mandatory node. I don't agree with that decision personally, but I can see it.

[rotund shoal]

the main killer on hard maelstroms is nurgle blessing + bad positioning + bosses

everything else can be handled

with premades

[grizzled aspen]

@spare talon post the video of you getting bullied in the corner by the blessed cspawn.

[plucky gate]

these can be cheesed with chorus
activate it and walk out of the bad position for free

[south grove]

I'm gonna have a fun time with kitbashing this box

[grizzled aspen]

No they can't lmao.

[wary kite]

I want the guys with green bottles on their back though

[south grove]

so many 'ard boyz in the making

[lapis cave]

which shout can't fix completely, for free--but chorus could

[grizzled aspen]

1, you're counting on a 60s ability to be off cooldown
2, the enemies don't magically disappear when you pop chorus

[rotund shoal]

yes were not disagreeing. im saying chorus is an amazing ability with premades but not solos

[grizzled aspen]

With voc it's instant, 30s cooldown, kill everything within arms reach of everyone.

[south grove]

psuedo mutant is best I can do

[lapis cave]

yep, just concurring.

[south grove]

I think a lot of goliath lads have auto stim injectors

lemme check

[frosty herald]

Is this necromunda

[spare talon]

Of me getting bullied?

[south grove]

yep

[grizzled aspen]

I believe it was you, helping me get ASS.

[south grove]

can vets have a bolt action?

[spare talon]

OH YEAH

[south grove]

I want a bolt action

[plucky gate]

cooldown is not that long if you have crit cdr
unlikely that your team isn't killing like half the threats while you chorus

[grizzled aspen]

Someone got put in the corner with a blessed cspawn and had voc on like .2s before it went off cooldown.

[spare talon]

I'd need to find it cuz I'm not at my pc tho

[grizzled aspen]

Oh then nvm.

[lapis cave]

that's overstating the case a bit, I think.

I will say that you should be able to build chorus up as much as you want if you want to spend the points. Get the toughness AND the damage, since it takes you out of the fight.

[south grove]

I'm sorry how did I fucking miss this

[grizzled aspen]

And it circles back to your teammates being needed to be useful... funny how that works.

[grizzled aspen]

It's not overstating anything. It's factual information.

[lapis cave]

fatshark, genestealer cultists WHEN?

[grizzled aspen]

1 voc cast allows YOU to kill anything short of a boss or 10 crushers within arms reach.

This is without input of teammates at all.

[plucky gate]

if your teammates suck, then yes it's a worse voc.
idk, i haven't denied that. In fact, literally said it too

[grizzled aspen]

With teammates, you'll blow through whatever you want.

[south grove]

I'm sorry how did I miss this too

😭

[plucky gate]

it's still pretty strong if your teammates suck. Just less than voc

which is an insanely high bar anyways

[grizzled aspen]

It's still not mandatory 1 point tax strong.

[plucky gate]

voc is nerf worthy

[south grove]

erhhh

no

[grizzled aspen]

There is nothing that you can say to convince me otherwise of that.

[south grove]

I need my crutch

[grizzled aspen]

Voc does need a nerf, though.

[south grove]

what if I ask nicely??

[lapis cave]

let me put this another way. I believe that if there was a competitive component to Darktide, every team would have a chorus zealot.

[grizzled aspen]

I'd say increase the cooldown to 15s, prevent overtoughness regenerating...

[plucky gate]

they can get rid of the tax and i'd be fine with it, sure. I don't think it needs to be there.
I also don't think the tax makes it too weak. Really, i could go either way

[south grove]

WHAAAT

[grizzled aspen]

Nerf iron will to not work on overtoughness.

Boom, voc balanced.

[south grove]

THIS SHIT HELLA COOL

WHY DID I MISS THEM

WHEN WAS THIS

[drifting wolf]

jeanstiller

[tight fog]

make sure u regularly check warhammer-community dot com!

[grizzled aspen]

And I'm trying to explain to you that if a 4stack team is competent enough to be considered "competitive," they wouldnt need chorus, because they'd all be fotf knife flamer zealouts that destroy everything.

[south grove]

I used to

I used to open it up every morning after brewing the tea

[spare talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046913589614747719/1282952504010735616/Warhammer_40-000-_Darktide_-_2024-08-02_1-34-52_AM.mp4?ex=67081e61&is=6706cce1&hm=3f0c474c9a4bd7396035acf2d167c2fedee2a05c6496f633f3fc0ffe58f478de&

[tight fog]

they took down their rss feed when changing to the new website which is a real bummer

[lapis cave]

probably Shroudfield lol

[plucky gate]

no, if they were speedrunning they would all stealth probably

assuming faster time is the metric

[grizzled aspen]

Again, no. Shroudfield is not good enough to compare to fotf.

Fotf is instant 100% rending and a crit.

Shroudfield is bonus headshot and backstab damage, which is typically mutually exclusive of each other.

[plucky gate]

i guess if it's a boss mission you'd rather have fotf
most missions just require you to run though

[lapis cave]

I prefer FotF but that's an insane statement

[grizzled aspen]

It's not.

[hard nexus]

(it really needs to be replaced with the chant idea but that won’t happen)

[grizzled aspen]

Also, fotf grants 20% bonus attack speed afterward.

[plucky gate]

like if we're talking about competitive speedruns, why kill anything?

what is the metric here if not speed?

[grizzled aspen]

You kill things because of data interrogator sections or "hold this area" sections.

[lapis cave]

well, competitive need not be speedruns. Could be achieving very difficult fights or objectives

[grizzled aspen]

Shroudfield isn't going to help you there, not nearly as much as fotf will.

[plucky gate]

no you just stealth those

[grizzled aspen]

You literally can't

They have minimum timers.

[obsidian prairie]

Shroudfield forces a crit

[grizzled aspen]

Ok, well, that's fair, I didn't know that because I don't use that dog ass ability.

Because, again, it doesn't compare to fotf.

[obsidian prairie]

It also apparently can't drop for 1 second after activation

so you can agrivovler fan a boss and several shots get the fucking massive benefit

[grizzled aspen]

The only reason I could potentially argue in favor of shroudfield is potential 1tap hammer boss killer builds, but that's so specifically niche you fuck over the rest of your performance.

[lapis cave]

dude, shroudfield gives you MASSIVE damage outlay for 5 secs

[grizzled aspen]

You are...

Not good at reading, are you?

[plucky gate]

for 1 hit

[grizzled aspen]

It's 1 hit in that time frame.

[tight fog]

it says there that shoud gives 100% to cringe levels

[grizzled aspen]

Fotf does 1 hit with a guaranteed crit and 100% rending, then 20% followup attack speed for 10s.

Unless it's 20s, been a minute since I've read it.

[lapis cave]

10s

[grizzled aspen]

Either way, shroudfield is worse.

[plucky gate]

i just realized the description actually doesn't say a hit ends stealth
wow the description is ass

fatshark moment

[grizzled aspen]

This is just factual.

[obsidian prairie]

It can't drop for one second immediately after you activate

which isn't much but you can get silly

[lapis cave]

yeah, I thought it worked like kerillians nonsense. Apologies

[grizzled aspen]

You can sort of cheese shroudfield by popping it as you hit something for 2 hits, but that's not intended so it isn't included in this argument.

[paper harness]

I made a darktide streamer mad

[plucky gate]

technically there is nothing there that says it ends

nothing to read

[paper harness]

by agressive knife play

[obsidian prairie]

Nice

who

[grizzled aspen]

I said it does it for only 1 hit.

I meant for the words I was saying.

[obsidian prairie]

also what kind of mad

[paper harness]

https://www.twitch.tv/stykyt

[lapis cave]

like, a whole talent node to extend stealth by 2 seconds? wth

[grizzled aspen]

I believe this is considered witch hunting...

[paper harness]

content creator

[grizzled aspen]

Anyway, synopsis here is, shroudfield is a diet fotf who's only current purpose is pathing on that half of the tree, and chorus is bad because of pathing choices requiring point taxes and the mandatory tax after it.

[humble wasp]

What are good blessings for stealth knife zealot?

[obsidian prairie]

uncanny precog or precog riposte

[grizzled aspen]

If chorus lost its mandatory tax, I'd say it's good. If shroudfield was baseline 5s and had some rending on it, I'd say it's good.

[plucky gate]

also i'd like to point out that the first result I found for a darktide speedrun does actually have 3 stealth players

[grizzled aspen]

As it currently stands, though, this is factual information.

[plucky gate]

so i'm actually not bullshitting about stealth being a speedrun thing

[grizzled aspen]

Oh I never argued against that.

[timid sapphire]

lads, any advise on the shocking stuff penance?

[lapis cave]

stealth obviously has its uses

[paper harness]

he tried to vote kick me

[grizzled aspen]

Grab a zealout teammate that's also running stuns, their stuns count for your penance.

[paper harness]

btw

[humble wasp]

Not Lacerate?

[spare talon]

Lacerate is a noob trap

[timid sapphire]

does it? it says enemies need to be stunned by my grenades on the penance

[obsidian prairie]

Lacerate requires a very specific playstyle for a sidegrade useage

[grizzled aspen]

Lacerate would be great if zealout couldn't naturally hit something like 50% crit chance normally.

[obsidian prairie]

if you want hordeclear use a agri brauto, flamer, or double barrel

[spare talon]

It avoids the almost 3x headshot multiplier for a bleed that does less than you think and caps out at 16 stacks

[grizzled aspen]

I promise, other zealout stuns also count.

[timid sapphire]

i see, thank you. is flamer the best option?

[grizzled aspen]

This is a classic case of fart shark having terrible descriptions.

[spare talon]

It counts
Also use a flamer

[obsidian prairie]

Some crazy asses here CAN make use of lacerate but it requires a specific playstyle

[humble wasp]

And Uncanny is better than Ruthless backstab?

[grizzled aspen]

Yes

[spare talon]

Infinitely

[obsidian prairie]

By a lot, yes

[timid sapphire]

much appreciated

[obsidian prairie]

Ruthless is a conditional that can't apply to dots or tknives

[grizzled aspen]

Uncanny is 100% rending after your 5th hit and is maintained by any further hits within the time it is allotted.

[obsidian prairie]

uncanny applies to everything and is really easy to proc and stack

[grizzled aspen]

Uncanny applies to all dots, as well.

[spare talon]

Uncanny has an easier condition and is also a global buff, so it applies to all outgoing damage while the knife is in your hand

[grizzled aspen]

If youre a wacko like me you can kill crusher packs with immolation grenades.

[humble wasp]

Thanks, I haven't thought about that.

[obsidian prairie]

Finally have time to try taxe mk2

[lapis cave]

immolation grenade ticks count as weakspot hits?

[grizzled aspen]

No.

They are a DOT.

Uncanny applies to them.

All DOT's register as bodyshots.

[obsidian prairie]

Love my goofy ass machine pistol

[spare talon]

But the damage they deal is affected by uncanny which can be easily maintained

[grizzled aspen]

It's really easy, get 5 stacks of uncanny, quickly drop your immo nade, keep stabbing.

[lapis cave]

huh, uncanny strike is written as weakspot hits, which is why I was asking

[quiet finch]

@rocky nacelle i'm not an entirely lost cause

[lapis cave]

ooooh

I'm dumb

[grizzled aspen]

It's stacked and maintained by weakspot hits.

[lapis cave]

build stacks, then grenade, then keep stabbing

[grizzled aspen]

But it grants your character 100% rending.

So anything registered to your character as outgoing damage is granted said rending.

That's tknives, bleed, or fire.

[spare talon]

Realistically tho
You don't need to think about building stacks
It's condition is fulfilled by just playing the game normally

[lapis cave]

another point for duelling sword tbh

[quiet finch]

not a lost cause

[obsidian prairie]

Hey cole whats the singletarget for taxe 2

[spare talon]

Light attacks

[grizzled aspen]

Drop inebriate's poise and grab second wind.

[lapis cave]

is there a list of self-buffs from weapons that can be repurposed for other weaponry?

[obsidian prairie]

Brainless behavior, got it

[grizzled aspen]

No, but most things work strangely enough for tknives.

[spare talon]

It's also worth noting that the push attack has the highest damage in the moveset

[grizzled aspen]

For example, you know how revolvers have surgical and hand cannon?

[obsidian prairie]

Interesting

FotF PA

[grizzled aspen]

If you ADS and get surgical to guarantee a crit, you can 1shot a crusher with a tknife.

[obsidian prairie]

Cursed as fuck

[grizzled aspen]

I believe point blank also applies to knife.

[lapis cave]

I was wondering how people were getting tknife kills on crushers when mine plinked

[grizzled aspen]

Yup, rending go brrrr.

[paper harness]

I reiterate my point about darktide content creators not being people lmao

[lapis cave]

we need a codex of faith or somethign like the ogrynomicon that catalogues all these interactions

[spare talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046913589614747719/1288734033357963277/Darktide_2024.09.25-18.52.mp4?ex=67080ed9&is=6706bd59&hm=54b5320b1e041de85b1976985af88844830da6596775a51fbe5ee90c9521b329&

[grizzled aspen]

Dorn is writing The Holiest Book.

[paper harness]

Thy

[grizzled aspen]

It'll be the zealout guide.

[obsidian prairie]

What the fuck is this person cooking

[grizzled aspen]

Vets have their guide maintained by Path, psykers have the Anatheum, and ogryns have the Ogrynomicon.

I have no idea who maintains the Anatheum.

[quiet finch]

is the thunder hammer good for CC?

[obsidian prairie]

Pygex

I think

[plucky gate]

yeah pygex

[grizzled aspen]

Having used this, it fucks.

Basically you rev and h1 and cleave everything.

[spare talon]

Perks and stats

[plucky gate]

that block eff goes hard

[grizzled aspen]

Flak maniac mobility dump.

Oh wait, theirs...

Oh god...

[plucky gate]

some people have insane loadouts

worst thing i've seen was this

in an auric damn game

yeah i wonder why he's having a bad time with ps

[acoustic dune]

is the thing really fun

[plucky gate]

he started talking about how you could swing so many times back then

[acoustic dune]

dude really went back in my day aye

[rose granite]

power cycler issue
difference in power cycler

[lapis cave]

solution for making evisc effective vs crusher packs?

that's actually pretty compelling

[quiet finch]

what does a martyrdom build comprise of exactly?

[lapis cave]

lots of setup to shore up a weakness covered readily by choosing a different weapon though

[shy river]

3 wound curios and a profound sense of recklessness for the first 75% of your hp

[autumn void]

What are good perks for the Double Barrel

[drifting wolf]

manstopper + scattershot/flechette

and flakiac idk lol

[quiet finch]

is this a good start fort a marty build?

[drifting wolf]

martyrdom goes down middle keystone

[autumn void]

I did ranged vs elites and reload speed for now

I can always change them later

[lapis cave]

And an understanding that there's a cap on how many wounds worth of bonuses you can have

[rotund shoal]

near 1mil in normal damn 21st moebian

[lapis cave]

Martyrdom is an actual keystone talent in the middle tree

[rotund shoal]

fun as fuck

uncanny lacerate slaps

im telling yall

my scoreboard is broken and doesnt show 21st moebian kills in totals

[quiet finch]

how about this instead?

[lapis cave]

Knife bleed?

[drifting wolf]

flesh tear

[rotund shoal]

yes

uncanny lacerate

flesh tearer for n00bs

[quiet finch]

this a good start or not?

[shy river]

most likely no but what melee weapon are you using

[lapis cave]

Not really. Missing some good stuff. I'm away from my desk but maybe someone else can post a good one.

Question: why do you want to play martyrdom? Another build may be better

[rotund shoal]

martyrdom is not a bad choice

[modern lintel]

try that @quiet finch

[grizzled aspen]

Mk15 with bloodthirsty.

You can chain crusher kills back to back.

[quiet finch]

not touching those damn throwing knives with a ten foot pole

[lapis cave]

This is actually super exciting to me. I love the mk15 but was dropping it because of frequent crusher packs

[modern lintel]

skill issue

[quiet finch]

probs might be i mean i love being up in the action as zealot

[quiet finch]

not a skill issue playing on controller lol

[shy river]

oof

[modern lintel]

iv been playing on controller for a year it is a skill issue

[quiet finch]

and the nade button is well not in a good location

[spare talon]

I'd trade the top mid 2 for sustained assault

[quiet finch]

chief its down on the D pad

not a skill issue

[modern lintel]

bro already had carpal tunnel its joever

[drifting wolf]

it's able to get sustained assault without sacrificing those since it's only 28/30 but i forgot

[shy river]

I'm damage maxxing martyr with thammer rn so my tree isn't really applicable here

[drifting wolf]

can maybe place those other two points elsewhere though

idk

[spare talon]

Aren't there other layouts that move where the blitz is on controller?

[lapis cave]

All zealot builds do that, fortunately. Blazing piety (left keystone) with fury of the faithful (zealot charge) is "safer" and very effective.

[quiet finch]

ok i'll take it

[obsidian prairie]

We love taxe

[rotund shoal]

piety only works on some weapons

and even then honestly ij is better in many cases

the extra dodge distance helps a lot

[quiet finch]

2 handed chainsword does it work with?

[rotund shoal]

No

do IJ or martyr

[quiet finch]

fuck than what does it work with

[drifting wolf]

IJ/momentum rewards you for doing what you were already doing anyways

[obsidian prairie]

It actually functions but eviscerator has a poor finesse modifier

[rotund shoal]

dclaw can work with piety

i dont do it but it can work

honestly the only redeeming part of piety is the CDR

otherwise IJ is just straight up better

[rancid wasp]

hi, best blessings for zarona pistol?

[rotund shoal]

handcannon surgical

[rancid wasp]

i am not a surgical fan. i go for very quick heads

any other option?

[rotund shoal]

handcannon surgical is objectively the best combo on the zarona

you can just pick whatever else

itll be worse

feel free to just pick at random

[rancid wasp]

cruxian + handcanon?

[obsidian prairie]

Gloryhunter is a good second choice

[south grove]

wtf...

[south grove]

surgical is better in the long run

[rancid wasp]

toughness regen not much of an issue

[obsidian prairie]

Its still better than most everything else

[drifting wolf]

john kasrkin

[rotund shoal]

do you consistently pick out heads quicker than 0.3seconds?

[lapis cave]

Rank 4 surgical stacks very fast

[south grove]

the stacks of crits is better than cruician

[obsidian prairie]

Alright i have a plasma vet and a PS vet in my lobby I am honorbound to beat both of them

[rancid wasp]

i think the timer being only 0.3s is a compelling choice. also yes 80% of the time

[rotund shoal]

then youre so good at aiming you can just run it without blessings lol

[lapis cave]

I was an IJ user but in a target rich environment piety's uptime is like 100% when a fight is happening. Why is IJ better in your view?

[rancid wasp]

yes. i have a very fast reaction time. i do a routine in kovaaks where the targets change position every 250ms. and i am top 0.1% on that

[rotund shoal]

dodge distance

and dodge recovery speed

15% to both

(hidden bonus)

[quiet finch]

what build rewards a reckless playstyle as zealot?

[rotund shoal]

besides that 15% dmg and 15% attack speed

which is comparable to 25% crit chance

[drifting wolf]

martyrdom

[rotund shoal]

15% attack speed also makes the evis handle a lot better

[rancid wasp]

martyrdom with hammer my most fun build ingame

[spare talon]

There isn't going to be a combo that helps you do what you want it to do better, and surgical/handcannon allows you to have more options to deal with things, like forcing one shots on ragers, dealing huge damage to crushers and bosses for very little ammo, etc

[drifting wolf]

it expects you to get hit and you're rewarded for it

[rotund shoal]

especially on the eviscerator your finesse bonus is trash

you barely get more damage for crits

i think 15% dmg and 15% as actually is higher dps than 25% crit

[lapis cave]

The downside is that it does nothing at all until you're missing a few wounds

[rancid wasp]

ok i try surgical and handcanon. speedloader absolute garbage. works only when close kill with zarona. 😦

[rotund shoal]

this isnt true on high finesse weapons but the dodge distance/refresh bonus is hard to ignore

[placid fiber]

Okay, but, does it let me eat cheese more frequently?

[rancid wasp]

i think 2 from tree, and 2 more from curios is good enough

[placid fiber]

For what, marty? I do 1 toughness curio and 2 wound curios myself

[quiet finch]

so marty with hammer huh?

[rancid wasp]

100%

[rancid wasp]

also good with evis, but adjust talents accordingly

[placid fiber]

It feels great having 172 toughness with a thammer

[rancid wasp]

exactly this.

[amber igloo]

hey I've tried your inspiring shredder with hammer today

the description is completely off as usual

you get 40% a TICK at max rev lol

it's pretty good

[quiet finch]

this hammer good?

[rancid wasp]

no

[amber igloo]

no thats as bas as it gets

[placid fiber]

If it was 40% then it would give more than 100% back, which it doesn't quite get that much

[amber igloo]

lol

[rancid wasp]

defences 60. rest 80

[amber igloo]

I go 0-100 super quick

once at full stacks

its definitely not 40%

[rocky nacelle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/475771791906832384/1293554675131617392/caption.gif?ex=6707cc2b&is=67067aab&hm=b68d68bcfb9966b8be46aee1b5bbc4aea814301644255d544cd4ae67f21fcd40&

[spare talon]

Also it's worth noting
At 80% crit bonus, your revolver has +21% crit chance, for a total base of 26% when you take into account zealots base crit chance, meaning realistically 7-8 stacks is all you need to force a crit, and even if you play normally, the 1-3 stacks you get from just aiming still gives you just as much crit chance as the other options that are more conditional, so in a real situation you're critting more than half the time on a weapon that literally has a stat for how much extra damage it's crits do lol

[placid fiber]

Yeah usually it's at full stacks by ~60% of the mag is spent

[amber igloo]

yea its pretty good

havent used shredder since the pinning nerf

[quiet finch]

why crowd control 60 those?

[amber igloo]

it's actually not half bad

[placid fiber]

It's amazing when you're a panic gamer

cause you can swap to your shredder while panicking and get all toughness back

[amber igloo]

and it will still stagger like a king

[spare talon]

You want defenses at 60
Crowd control affects your attack speed so you don't want to dump it

[amber igloo]

letting you dispatch disablers deep in horde

[rancid wasp]

yep for the longest time i was running bs stuff on zarona. today i decided to take a proper look. thanks for the advice

[placid fiber]

Yeah it's strong for specials

and a very fast draw as well

[rancid wasp]

my bad. corrected.

[amber igloo]

yea its pretty damn good with hammer absolute dogshit base maniac dmg

[placid fiber]

Sad that it sucks vs flak

[amber igloo]

got the hammer for that

[quiet finch]

can y'all make up ya damn mind i've got person saying crowd control and another person saying defence

[placid fiber]

Honestly you could probably get away with 10% elites 25% flak on the shredder

[amber igloo]

but, slow weapons will always feel bad in this game still

[rotund shoal]

thank god for coles diplomacy

[placid fiber]

mobility/defences is the dump stat on weapons

[rotund shoal]

i cannot be nice to people when discussing builds

zealot toxicity

[rancid wasp]

i am running, 25% carapace, 25% flak, with thrust and strength on kill. defenses 60 rest 80

[amber igloo]

I wouldn't bother with carapace on hammer

you gonna be using it for monster hunting usually

[placid fiber]

that 25% flak even helps with the assassination bosses as well

[amber igloo]

and you can oneshot crusher anyhow without

[rancid wasp]

i did a mistake. i corrected. i forgot the defense stat. and little bit zonked right now.

[placid fiber]

It's more for one shotting crushers with nothing but thrust

[spare talon]

Headtaker at like 3-5 stacks and x3 thrust can one shot crushers to the head with no cara perk

So I use flak and unyielding

[amber igloo]

well, I wont ever use hammer outside of monstrosities

it still feels pretty fkin clumsy

[south grove]

so many people with bad takes in the chat rn

[amber igloo]

but thats just me

[south grove]

ping me when they're gone

[rancid wasp]

i am using the unyielding from the talent tree.

[placid fiber]

pings

[north sedge]

Cara on hammer is a solid pick

[spare talon]

I use both for even more

[south grove]

also, why's there goku feet emoji reacts on the newest patch

and a lot of them too

[spare talon]

I was a thammer hater but now it's pretty fun
I'm not amazing with this type of weapon, but it certainly is fun to use once in a while to mix things up

[placid fiber]

They made it so much more user friendly to use

[amber igloo]

it is solid for sure, slow weapons are just not my thing is all

[rancid wasp]

bosses die quickly anyways. but are you trying to go for 1 shotting bosses?

[spare talon]

IJ dodge buffs are hard carrying my enjoyment

[placid fiber]

I just want the bon bon dead yesterday

[rotund shoal]

if they remove IJ dodge buffs im quitting

[fleet zealot]

i hope they remove it stealth, no notes

[south grove]

switch to vet...

[placid fiber]

besides the 25% unyielding helps with bulwark 1 shots with an empowered light

[rancid wasp]

hammer was my fav weapon from vermintide 2. after the changes, i think its my fav weapon in darktide as well.

[spare talon]

Unyielding also applies to reapers and bulwarks
And I love instantly obliterating bulwark packs

[visual stream]

Hammer nerf right after hammer buff

[placid fiber]

[misty nova]

I'd have to change my name
Damnit

[wraith cipher]

has anyone messed with ironhelm?

[visual stream]

Yes

Heavenly

[wraith cipher]

how so

[placid fiber]

the 1 time I used it I had 10+ hit register errors... the 20 rounds I used the crucis... I had 0

[wraith cipher]

havent tried yet

[visual stream]

I can do anything with it

[rancid wasp]

carapace and unyielding then?

[wraith cipher]

lul

[spare talon]

I use flak and unyielding

[visual stream]

Can easily one shot anything but bosses

Take cara and flak ez

[placid fiber]

Having your ironhelm go THROUGH A BOSS 3 TIMES IN ONE ROUND is annoying...

[rotund shoal]

wait flak is for what

[spare talon]

.

[rotund shoal]

horde clear?

[rancid wasp]

thats what i am using now

[wraith cipher]

so even with special cleave your still one shotting?

[placid fiber]

when it does this it does 0 damage

[visual stream]

Horde clear and easier flak ragers+maulers

[wraith cipher]

then whats the point of the crucis?

[spare talon]

Basically
And at 5x headtaker, light attacks one shot shotgunners
It's so funny

[visual stream]

Also scab gunners and shotgunners

And dreg gunners

[quiet finch]

which mark for thunder hammer is best?

[misty nova]

Total deletion

[visual stream]

Both

[rancid wasp]

i use the crucis personally.

[placid fiber]

bigger damage, and I've had 0 hit register errors on it so far

[rancid wasp]

the patterns are simpler

[visual stream]

Crucis can one shot bosses probably and it's even easier to get mauler+crusher one shots

Maybe not bosses but close

[spare talon]

I honestly prefer crucis
It's light attacks are very damaging strike downs and I'm of the opinion it's heavy sweeps are actually pretty good for horde clear considering it's cleave and minimum cleave damage

And overhead bonk is cool too

[paper harness]

Half of mine

[placid fiber]

the overhead bonk is easy to aim at elites in crowds

[wraith cipher]

i mean if im 1 shotting on ironhelm and i even have the cleave benefit, then theres no need to go in for the single target power the crucis would bring?

[visual stream]

Anything with knife really

[paper harness]

Benefit the most from an obscenely aggressive play style

[visual stream]

Wrong reply

[quiet finch]

what about the iron helm?

[placid fiber]

I mean until they fix it, you're gonna have more hit register errors where it doesn't register hitting the enemy and doesn't damage them >.>

[spare talon]

It's moveset preference beyond that
I like the crucis moveset way more

[copper hawk]

@paper harness

do u have the darktide knowledge quiz

[placid fiber]

For the crucis I think you need your hit to be at the very edge of the hitbox

now

[paper harness]

I can get it

[visual stream]

The strikedown accessibility probably means easier elite killing without having to think about combo

[copper hawk]

nvm

found it

on reddit

[spare talon]

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/ultimate-darktide-quiz-100-questions/99649

[quiet finch]

the iron helm does its move set involve light attacks for cc

[copper hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/markiplier-markiplier-soyjak-reddit-soyjak-wojak-gif-27376553

[paper harness]

I should create my own based on extremely obscure map questions

[placid fiber]

I'm honestly not sure I want to try the ironhelm again after all the hit register errors I got in 1 round...

[wraith cipher]

i think it would be easier on ironhelm cause would just cleave until you hit your target?

assuming youre just hitting around the outside of the horde

[placid fiber]

cough unless the hit doesn't register and it goes through the elite instead COUGH

[wraith cipher]

cause of the sweep

[visual stream]

I haven't experienced this personally

[spare talon]

Crusher clip on the reddit
I posted a comment talking about lethal proximity crusher synergy
Someone told me they wish they could eat my ass right now

[visual stream]

Moreso for packs of elites

Like 10 shotgunners

[placid fiber]

I had 10+ times, 3 of which were against monsters in my face, in the 1 round I tested it

[wraith cipher]

i mean i also have to try it lol

i havent yet

[placid fiber]

You might have better luck than me

I'm still really pissed about the daemonhost and plague ogryn...

[visual stream]

I hope I keep it that way LOL

[placid fiber]

Ironhelm will be better for horde clear overall

Crucis will have easier 1 shot breakpoints

[small lance]

Can someone give me a good setup for the flamer? I know burn is the #1 most important stat and I know that crits double burn output.

[glossy gust]

hello, maybe im asking a stoopid question but-- how should i play martyrdom keystone? like... have i to die on purpose? cant i active it somehow?

[quiet finch]

ironhelm its light attacks what are they like?

[south grove]

regular damnation

[placid fiber]

1 light feels useless and cleaves, the other light is just the light 2 of the crucis

[south grove]

wtf lmfao

[visual stream]

Does anyone know if Ironhelm's heavies are stronger or weaker than Crucis'?

Or the same?

[lapis cave]

@grizzled aspen which perks were you using on your bloodthirsty evisc?

[fickle dagger]

Are thunder hammers still mid outside of bosses?

[placid fiber]

thunder hammers are strong now

[visual stream]

Because a chastise'd horizontal heavy deals with elite packs nicely

[grizzled aspen]

Flak maniac.

[rocky nacelle]

no

[rotund shoal]

blessings:
blaze away always
choice of:

• overpressure (probably BIS)
• pen flames (for armor)
• eternal flame (if running piety)
  perks are choice of unyielding maniac flak
  dump stat is damage

[visual stream]

Thammers are awesome now

[fickle dagger]

Maybe I need to re work my build then

[placid fiber]

cough don't forget inspiring barrage ;3

[small lance]

thanks bud!

[visual stream]

Send pics and this chat will generally help you workshop it

[grizzled aspen]

You take chip damage normally and passively build up martyrdom stacks. Run until death and holy revenant on the left side as a safety net. Most people do max wound curios, but you can do 2 wounds 1 toughness if you don't feel confident with 3 wounds.

[placid fiber]

I'm not dissing on the ironhelm cuz I'm a crucis fanboy(which I am), I am just really miffed the 1 mission I used it that I had 10+ hit register errors

[misty nova]

You let chip damage accumulate over time
Health still a resource

[glossy gust]

it says missing wounds not hp

[misty nova]

Yeah

[glossy gust]

so i need the pink hp i guess

[placid fiber]

You either let chip happen over time, or you set yourself up with a certain amount of buffs. I set myself to half hp for 3 marty buffs myself, but, I am also comfortable working with that

[placid fiber]

no, just missing hp

[grizzled aspen]

Yes, wounds, not hp. More wounds means your hp is cut up into more pieces.

[visual stream]

It's funny wording but it means when the health is missing beyond the wounds, not corrupted

[north sedge]

the wound just has to be empty

[placid fiber]

Yeah, it doesn't need the corruption

[grizzled aspen]

Corrupted wounds still count, though.

[placid fiber]

^

[visual stream]

So you can have no corrupted wounds and have full stacks if you're on your last wound

[visual stream]

Yee

[glossy gust]

oooh

that s makes a bit of sense now

[placid fiber]

fatshark is piss poor at wording things lol

[grizzled aspen]

It's a very strong keystone.

[glossy gust]

i thought i needed purple hp

so that s why i was like

wtf have i to die on purpose?

[grizzled aspen]

Nope, just be missing hp.

[golden rain]

Nope, you don't need Corruption to accumulate.

[hushed knoll]

Hello Doughthony

[lapis cave]

thanks man. Which keystone were you using? Want to try to duplicate your results as closely as possible.

[placid fiber]

funny thing is getting picked up will put you at 5/6 wounds(when at 0 corruption) and remove the marty stacks lol

[visual stream]

Throwback to when the grenade tinkerer talent gave you stun immunity

[golden rain]

Treat it as Zealot Saltzpyre--less health while up = more damage and AS

[grizzled aspen]

Max wounds you can have is 7 in damnation, so that's 6 possible stacks of martyrdom.

[visual stream]

And they mentioned this nowhere

[glossy gust]

[golden rain]

(and technically TDR in this case)

[glossy gust]

yeah

[north sedge]

thy grenades be swift

[placid fiber]

thy grenade be swift

[glossy gust]

thanks a lot tho

[grizzled aspen]

I always run IJ with evisc because the mobility fucking sucks.

[glossy gust]

need do the penance ufffff

[visual stream]

[north sedge]

tbf that wasn't a wording thing error and a someone just fucking pasted in twbs in the code for some reason

[placid fiber]

I messed up spelling swift 4 times lol

[visual stream]

True, there are other better examples

[placid fiber]

Or maybe... it was intentionally done without notifying everyone else for an easier time vetting...

[golden rain]

At least Martyrdom is actually very strong when you play around it correctly.

[north sedge]

no because it was removed soon after

[placid fiber]

Meaning they didn't tell the other devs

[golden rain]

The problem is once you make a mistake, well

[lapis cave]

there's obviously an interaction here that I'm unaware of. Outside of swift certainty, how does IJ improve mobility on evisc?

[north sedge]

and it was obviously a "whoops i pasted a thing there"

[golden rain]

Then that mistake punishes you extremely harshly

[placid fiber]

Aww, ur not letting me cook...

[rotund shoal]

dodge distance and dodge recovery speed

[placid fiber]

[rotund shoal]

1% per stack (like damage and as)

its not written in the description

cuz

[lapis cave]

hidden buff from momentum?

ahhh okay

[glossy gust]

yeah the stats are very big, i like a lot the one that gives attack speed and damage

[lapis cave]

that's huge =/

[rotund shoal]

yes thats what i was writing before

[placid fiber]

0.5% for dodge recovery time iirc

[south grove]

I can't handle ranged pressure

any tips for that?

[rotund shoal]

dodge slide

[misty nova]

Kantrael Shotgun

[placid fiber]

slide while moving forwards

[rotund shoal]

reduces ranged damage by about 80%

[misty nova]

Load fire shots

[lapis cave]

slide while moving forward at an angle

[placid fiber]

does the angle really matter?

I just slide forwards towards them lol

[visual stream]

Not for sliding no

[golden rain]

uhm akshually its accatran now

(Kantrael Shotgun my beloved)

[placid fiber]

tfw sliding gave us 100% tdr...

[rancid wasp]

have more wounds, and play normally. dont get hit on purpose. use heals when there is one available for free. dont force martyrdom is the best way to play martyrdom

[naive stirrup]

after playing with it more
forcing it is the best way to play it

[lapis cave]

are you sure? I take a lot more chip damage while advancing on shooter packs if I go straight for them. It's like they can target me better in the brief moments I'm standing.

Anecdotal though

[misty nova]

Sprint Dodge my beloved

[rotund shoal]

yes

[naive stirrup]

it's a high risk high reward keystone

you have insane damage

but die fucking instantly

[placid fiber]

Yeah, leave lower hp set ups to when you are more skilled and able to avoid damage better

[glossy gust]

yeah doing a build with the most wounds i can have, and yeah i will play normally!

thanks a lot everyone for the help understanding the keystone

[placid fiber]

I only do half hp on damnation

[grizzled aspen]

Classic fart shart not having good descriptions. It grants a faster dodge recovery speed and dodge distance based on the number of stacks of momentum you have, but it doesn't say it.

[naive stirrup]

like im alright at this game and can use it pretty effectively, but i still prefer just running minimum wounds and taking IJ

[lapis cave]

yeah, john was saying this earlier and I couldn't figure out where the hell it was coming from

[south grove]

this guy died 4 times on regular damnation and got rid of both the grimore

why

[golden rain]

Inexorable Judgement is just

so goddamn nice

[rancid wasp]

yes, but i think forcing it on someone with not too much of martyrdom playstyle is risky in itself.

[naive stirrup]

yes

[south grove]

curretnly playing ogryn

I can handle range pressure on all other classes

[naive stirrup]

oh yeah it's VERY much a high skill floor

[rotund shoal]

this was my biggest pain while running the grim event

[golden rain]

Martyrdom is insane

[naive stirrup]

high skill floor with an even higher skill ceiling

[rotund shoal]

turns the game into "babysit the other grim holder"

[south grove]

I just don't think I can dodge everything when I'm a wall

[placid fiber]

The main times I've gotten rid of grims were to give players 1 more down and when I knew it went from 0 to 100 and the team couldn't handle it

[golden rain]

But Inexorable Judgement is big comfy

[rotund shoal]

oh ogryn dodge slide is not as effective as other classes

[misty nova]

Grenadier Gauntlet

[south grove]

he didn't kill the grimore either

he died both times

[rotund shoal]

zealot has the most effective dodge slide against ranged

[grizzled aspen]

I still need to get like 5 more grims/scriptures.

[rancid wasp]

i miss the temp hp zealot playstyle from vermintide 2.

[rotund shoal]

ogryn is barely effective

[south grove]

I told him not to pick up the grimore

[placid fiber]

Being able to give players 1 more down by dropping a grim is pretty cool

[naive stirrup]

no it has 0 iframes iirc

or almost zero

like 2

[lapis cave]

I used to run it exclusively, took a break before locked and reloaded, came back and respecced to piety for most of my play, so I didn't notice the difference

[naive stirrup]

or someshit

[south grove]

oh yea and he tried to boot me off the team bc I did the crouch stim thing on top of him while he was downed

[rotund shoal]

i dont play ogryn so i dunno

only class under level 150

[grizzled aspen]

You jorked on your downed teammate? You monster...

[placid fiber]

the "crouch stim thing"...?

[south grove]

he got rid of both grimores and don't have the humility to take the flak

[grizzled aspen]

(I did the exact same thing to you the other day)

[naive stirrup]

would be funny if you could get temp hp in darktide
i guess that's what toughness is but still

[south grove]

yea but that's bc I know I'm bad

[grizzled aspen]

It looks like you're cranking your hog when you do that and look down.

[naive stirrup]

straight up jorkin it, as they say

[south grove]

he thinks he's better than me bc he's level 56

[placid fiber]

Oh lol

[south grove]

I'm on level 25 ogryn rn

[rotund shoal]

nah jorking your teammates is when you spam revive button on em no?

[placid fiber]

I've never used a stim while crouched/sliding

[rancid wasp]

toughness is kiddie version of temp hp

[grizzled aspen]

Toughness is better than temp hp.

[rotund shoal]

i only do it to people who are annoying in morningstar

[misty nova]

What do you mean by" it"?

[rotund shoal]

or this one fkin speedrunner

in EU

[naive stirrup]

let's just say

[rotund shoal]

AllesZerstorer

[rancid wasp]

i spam right click with stim on elevators

[rotund shoal]

hate the mf

[naive stirrup]

[placid fiber]

toughness is temp hp 2.0

[grizzled aspen]

It's still better than temp hp.

Temp hp requires you to get hit first.

[rotund shoal]

still hasnt blocked me ive jorked him twice so far

[south grove]

I didn't revive him lmfao

[rancid wasp]

nope.

[south grove]

I left him to die

[grizzled aspen]

Toughness is just so much better than temp hp in every way.

I will not be arguing with temp hp copers.

Vermintide is outdated as hell.

[rotund shoal]

frog not arguing

pigs are flying

hell hath frozen over

[grizzled aspen]

Seethe and mald if you wish, you are still wrong.

[rotund shoal]

there it is

[placid fiber]

Hey... don't tell me what I am or am not doing...

[grizzled aspen]

No that's the extent of the arguing.

[lapis cave]

I can see why the build is appealing and plays into the zealot fantasy, but I do think martyrdom encourages toxic play in the wrong hands.

It would be better all around if it were a different kind of battle frenzy rather than encouraging niche play.

Also wound curios are pretty stupid outside of this specific play style. They could do something else with it entirely.

[grizzled aspen]

I'm just leaving it at "youre wrong and stupid" and not elaborating further.

[rotund shoal]

dont see how its toxic

[naive stirrup]

deserved for the true elitists that do that shit
the redditors call people in here elitists but i guess not being shit at the game is elite now

[rotund shoal]

if u die you die

dont rely on your teammates

[placid fiber]

Marty in the wrong hands is useless... marty in the right hands... >.>'

[naive stirrup]

oh yeah on EVERY class wound curios are literally useless because they mean you are PLANNING on going down

[grizzled aspen]

Martyr in the right hands makes my scoreboard say 900k damage.

[naive stirrup]

so you build for that instead of never going down in the first place

[south grove]

he called me a pleb

[lapis cave]

intentionally taking damage is anti-team play. I see a LOT of martyr zealots making things harder on their team because they don't heal and die unnecessarily

[rancid wasp]

maybe more like 0.5. my reasoning is, getting temp hp in v2 is extremely consistent with the lvl 5 talent. its not just for toughness vs temp hp. but the talents affecting it.

[south grove]

I ain't gonna take flak from some guy that died 4 times

he can just stay dead

[naive stirrup]

those are shitter-dom zealots then

[rotund shoal]

dying isnt anti team play

[lapis cave]

yeah, which describes most players

[rotund shoal]

thats the same as saying sucking at the game is anti team play

[placid fiber]

Yeah it's literally why I have not used wound curios(for non marty) since like... fucking... it was either late december 22 or early in 23 lol

[lapis cave]

you build your systems around the middle of the bell curve, and leave cookies for the folks at the ends

[grizzled aspen]

That just sounds like people don't know how to use martyrdom correctly.

[lapis cave]

yep, which is "bad" design

[lapis cave]

notice that bad is in quotes

[grizzled aspen]

That's not the fault of the keystone.

[placid fiber]

That's marty in the wrong hands

[grizzled aspen]

That's the fault of the idiots using it.

[median steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/dokibird-confused-vtuber-nijisanji-hololive-gif-16805891220657949602

[grizzled aspen]

Quite literally a skill issue.

[south grove]

what's the difference between me and you?

[naive stirrup]

i used one for a while before i joined this server and started harrassing dorn and ainz in the strike party channels and i improved DRAMATICALLY
upside of learning fast is you realize when you yourself are a dumbass

[grizzled aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/brad-pitt-fury-movie-shoot-that-guy-gif-8829002926137263043

[south grove]

I never goon

[rancid wasp]

no one is arguing. i respect your opinion. and you can be happy with your own opinion.

[lapis cave]

it is, it could be something that encourages a play style that does not involve intentionally taking damage for optimal play in a team game.

Again, i get why the folks here like it, but it's like the penances that encourage people to do dumb shit. There's a better way to engage players

[placid fiber]

I listened to what the pros were saying, since I had learned that in vt2 lol

[rotund shoal]

about five bank accounts, three ounces and two vehicles

[misty nova]

Mfw I stat check every enemy and killing them faster (it's anti team play)

[spare talon]

I legit just said this

[placid fiber]

Turns out... listening to the pros... makes getting better a lot easier...

Heresy, I know...

[south grove]

I NEVER goon

[naive stirrup]

holy shit i can have nuke crusher

[south grove]

you're a gooner

[naive stirrup]

does boltgun have lethal prox?

[median steeple]

ye

[rotund shoal]

guilty as charged

[grizzled aspen]

Nowhere in the keystone does it say, explicitly, that you should take damage on purpose.

[naive stirrup]

ye

[grizzled aspen]

It only says missing wounds grants buffs.

[naive stirrup]

i will be

[obsidian ore]

But can Dorn and Ainz inprove my mental health?

[naive stirrup]

killing tghings

[lapis cave]

https://tenor.com/view/come-on-now-girl-calvin-payne-house-of-payne-cmon-now-oh-come-on-gif-23368137

[grizzled aspen]

How you choose to approach having these missing wounds is entirely up to the player.

[spare talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046913589614747719/1292799775028150335/Warhammer_40-000-_Darktide_-_2024-10-07_5-44-31_AM.mp4?ex=670858dd&is=6707075d&hm=e6f1a8d8c00e8e0aece5464f8e620acb6df00aa9a1a8220db4c33349a860c9f7&

[grizzled aspen]

If you wish to cook your toes in barrel fire, go for it.

[lapis cave]

https://tenor.com/view/real-gif-4390178

[south grove]

I saw that

[placid fiber]

It took a lot of stress off of finding what works best for me since I was able to listen to what they said and apply it to myself... making my build solid and just was left with learning weapons then

[south grove]

I didn't know it was you

[naive stirrup]

free clutch time

[grizzled aspen]

If you want to eat a crusher overhead and instantly proc until death, fine by me.

[naive stirrup]

fuckign

BET

[grizzled aspen]

All we are saying is that those people are inherently not good at the game.

[naive stirrup]

looks like my boltgun is going to be lethal prox and puncture now

[rotund shoal]

and should be HUNG UNTIL DEATH

[grizzled aspen]

Lethal prox bad.

[rotund shoal]

DRAWN AND QUARTERED

[placid fiber]

cough tfw your teammate drew the overhead into you from behind right as your dodge finished(and before u could dodge again)

[grizzled aspen]

Use shattering instead for guaranteed crusher 4taps from any distance.

[naive stirrup]

LEGALIZE NUCLEAR BOMBS

[placid fiber]

4taps sounds like the name of a bar >.>

[grizzled aspen]

This makes me want to sling slurs in the mourningstar.

[spare talon]

They're taking it for crusher, the weapon

[grizzled aspen]

Oh, ok then.

Don't use boltgun then.

Use bolt pistol.

[placid fiber]

A lot of times the crushers were chasing my teammates and got randomly aggroed on me while I was focusing something else... lol

[grizzled aspen]

Better stat stick moment.

[spare talon]

I use it on boltpistol with puncture tho

[grizzled aspen]

This is based.

[golden rain]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-exterminatus-inquisitor-headsmash-gif-20422853

[lapis cave]

question: Why do people like bolt pistol with puncture?

[grizzled aspen]

Lethal prox puncture is good for crusher.

[grizzled aspen]

Fudging bps.

[spare talon]

BP is technically a bolt-gun

[naive stirrup]

hella bleed

[grizzled aspen]

2shots on basically everything if you let the bleed work its magic.

[cold kelp]

Isn't that what average space marine is?

[median steeple]

I am the #1 bolt pistol lover

[placid fiber]

bullets per second...?

[naive stirrup]

[placid fiber]

[modern lintel]

it hits breakpoints sometimes

[rotund shoal]

pretty far from hobos

"Most Chapter Masters think that free time is a frivolous activity that encourages heretic thought"

paraphrasing from one of the codices

[cold kelp]

They live on void ships, wander the galaxy, kill random things, and move on

[placid fiber]

More like crusher with a boltgun <.<

[rotund shoal]

More like vanlife

[cold kelp]

Fair point

[lapis cave]

ah, 2 shots. I noticed it wasn't helping me one shot things as I was testing it in the pskhanium and couldn't figure out what the value was

[rotund shoal]

speaking of ive decided to do vanlife

this isnt even a joke

im buying a cheap van

[placid fiber]

Hey, Cole! That's what Fatshark needs to add! Crushers that use boltguns instead of their melee weapon! @spare talon

[rotund shoal]

now all i need is a revolver and a hatred for heretics

[lapis cave]

know an artist who opted for the expensive af van life and rapidly dropped it

[grizzled aspen]

Ogryn boss that just has a heavy bolter.

[rotund shoal]

i mean not planning on making it expensive

[obtuse stirrup]

What's the best way to build a bolt pistol?

[placid fiber]

pretty sure we'd be fucked lol

[naive stirrup]

you lied to me boltgun does NOT have lethal prox

[cold kelp]

Heavy bolter = heavy breathing

[lunar fable]

Crushers with multimeltas

[grizzled aspen]

L.

[cold kelp]

Yes please, gimme

[rotund shoal]

im buying the cheapest van i can, old enough that repair is easy

[south grove]

Bozo

[rotund shoal]

having a mechanic friend teach me about reparing cars

[lapis cave]

and now has an expensive af fully decked out van you could run a CIA op from that he doesn't use. Some people have too much money and too little sense.

[placid fiber]

Oh God...

[naive stirrup]

looks like im building a boltpistol

[placid fiber]

Better yet: Crushers with a grenade gauntlet

[south grove]

let regular reapers toss poxbursters

[lapis cave]

excuse me while I go buy some Darktide cosmetics

[lunar fable]

Smykers when they can't zap nurgle blessed multimelta ogryns

[south grove]

air that shit out

[placid fiber]

That is fully auto as well

[rotund shoal]

want this so bad

[placid fiber]

That'd be hilarious the first few times for sure lol

[south grove]

I loved halo infinite brutes tossing suicide grunts

[lapis cave]

airburst poxbursters 😦

[south grove]

PEAK

[plucky gate]

let ogryns grab and throw poxbursters back at the enemies

[south grove]

more friendly fire options

[cold kelp]

Crushers throwing rocks perhaps?

[obtuse stirrup]

Is the dumpstat between mobility and collateral?

[lunar fable]

Bursters with no arming time

[lapis cave]

easy there, satan

[plucky gate]

but also leave the poxbursters vulnerable to damage while grabbed so you can grief the ogryn

[south grove]

collateral -> defense -> mobility -> charge rate/warp resistance

[rotund shoal]

charge rate is not a dump stat on any staff

warp res is

[south grove]

charge rate on vet

[rotund shoal]

ah ok

[south grove]

I wanna fight a heavy weapon emplacement down a hall

like a mini bossfight

heavy bolter/autocannon works

[cold kelp]

I wanna fight a Leman Russ tank... they're allover tertium

[south grove]

just let them air their barrage down the hall

[south grove]

have areas where you can hide

[rotund shoal]

new boss: 100 gunners all spawning at once

pub clear rate 0%

[south grove]

gunner patrol

real

[cold kelp]

Too real

[plucky gate]

i want a boss fight that drops poxbursters from the sky in random places

and you gotta shoot them mid air to create safe areas

[cold kelp]

Ooh! How about random portals with nurglings pouring out as a modifier?

[south grove]

plague drones

[rotund shoal]

not 120 gunners!!

noo

[south grove]

have them puke out balls of burgle vomit

[placid fiber]

Okay, fine... these as well

200 gunners lol

[cold kelp]

Only 8 power and toughness?

[south grove]

and if you get covered you'd get carried away drg grabber mactera style

[rotund shoal]

i want Be'lakor as a boss but hes as dumb as in lore

[visual stream]

'ate macteras

[placid fiber]

no, that's 8 zealots worth of power and toughness each gunner

[visual stream]

'ate cave leeches

[south grove]

we'd die instantly

[cold kelp]

Are they martyrs or loners?

[south grove]

anything named will shred us

[rotund shoal]

not if its Be'lakor

[south grove]

why

[naive stirrup]

pff

[rotund shoal]

dumb as a brick

[south grove]

is there something idk

[south grove]

he's still archeon's older brother no matter how you look at it

[visual stream]

The power scaling of 40k depends on how much the writer wants the character to be a main character

That being said we solo anything

[rotund shoal]

he gets hit by a train mid fight

[visual stream]

If they want us to

[cold kelp]

And if their armor is blue or grey

[placid fiber]

They're momentum zealots each with this exact build and 3 toughness and 3 health curios all with max stats and 5% health and toughness perks on all 6 curios

[south grove]

that'd does nothing imo

[cold kelp]

I concede, that's fairly powerful

[placid fiber]

Yep lol

[south grove]

not downplaying trains but he's literally the first favoured in the undivided sense

[placid fiber]

I didn't evne mention the base +300% toughness as well @cold kelp