instead of, where did 3 lidlwuns worth of health go
#zealot-class
zinc talon
fleet zealot
Crafting update is giving us PC 1-4
spare talon
Crafting update is giving us PC 1-4
what the fuck is pc 1-2 gonna do
fleet zealot
what the fuck is pc 1-2 gonna do
My bet if they don’t slap on a different stat to scale, it’s going to be 1,2,3,4 extra energized swings
spare talon
i want the true heresy experience
spare talon
not a casual stroll simulator
fleet zealot
Pre nerf power sword making a come back
obsidian prairie
The ogryns are both ASS
fleet zealot
5 ENERGIZED SWINGS
spare talon
My bet if they don’t slap on a different stat to scale, it’s going to be 1,2,3,4...
Description at t1 reads +5% weakpoint impact. +0 charged swings.
fleet zealot
Fatshark i cannot play the game without my 7 ENERGIZED SWINGS i will now review bomb and demand a refund since melee combat is impossible with only 3 ENERGIZED SWINGS
visual stream
I was talking to a friend about Ark's clinically insane methods of taming and then I remembered there's one where you literally get impregnated by a monster
polar nexus
poor illisi users with only one swing
spare talon
Pc on illisi when
fleet zealot
I was talking to a friend about Ark's clinically insane methods of taming and th...
Huh
spare talon
jokes on you
i think that would be sick as hell
fleet zealot
PC deimos would be a downgrade in most situations
You’d just lock yourself out of the game
But you could empower H2
🤔
spare talon
You’d just lock yourself out of the game
let pc make the charge cost how many swings worth of peril it gives
for the sticky force swords
median steeple
Power cycler but it fucking kills you
spare talon
make it to where it increases the damage 2-3x depending on how many charges pc gives
fleet zealot
Ahh yes eldritch smite (not blast, the hexblade/pact of blade shit)
I’m playing an hexblade warlock rn in a campaign and it’s fun asf
spare talon
so youd be consuming 3x the peril
but get 3x the damage
illisi would cost 3x the peril but give 3x the charged swings
spare talon
what did he mean by this
spiral anvil
Hab Dreyko
clear knot
surreal shore
Hey guys
ivory marlin
ඞ
surreal shore
Have people started using tacaxe yet ?
modern lintel
Im just driving around and iv seen two diff cyber trucks in the past 30mins mr musk is coming for me i fear
spare talon
Have people started using tacaxe yet ?
keets probably the person to talk to about that, i recall him using them a decent amount
unique elbow
okay so martyr build with thunder hammer is pretty fun
spare talon
Im just driving around and iv seen two diff cyber trucks in the past 30mins mr m...
i saw one just outside my work the other day
unique elbow
flamer too
surreal shore
keets probably the person to talk to about that, i recall him using them a decen...
Dude it's soo good people really should use it
I think its great alternative to knife
modern lintel
Im practicaly middle of nowhere and two diff creatures have them here
polar nexus
keets probably the person to talk to about that, i recall him using them a decen...
yes I am a taxe user on vet and zealot
polar nexus
Have people started using tacaxe yet ?
what do you want to know?
surreal shore
what do you want to know?
I run it with blazing piety
polar nexus
I think its great alternative to knife
I do agree
surreal shore
And shroud field
Is that what you run ?
Also I think Mark 2 unironically got the best horde clear cuz you can just heavy spam
polar nexus
i run two types of taxes
both are mk7 because i do pa + h1 a lot and i find that combo faster on mk7
fleet zealot
surreal shore
both are mk7 because i do pa + h1 a lot and i find that combo faster on mk7
Oh you really should give mark 2 ago but I pefer mark 7 too for its faster lights
polar nexus
i run bm + shred with piety or judgement but mostly judgement
surreal shore
But mark 2 got such braindead horde clear
polar nexus
and lately i have been using a lot a all or nothing + headtaker combo
surreal shore
i run bm + shred with piety or judgement but mostly judgement
Decimator/headtaker with Bm is my build tbf
hollow dove
loner penance build 💀 No duelist but man I dunno if I can drop the CDR for the DR and toughness regen
fleet zealot
loner penance build 💀 No duelist but man I dunno if I can drop the CDR for the...
Why double cdr
polar nexus
all or nothing + headtaker + desperation is kinda silly, it outputs some really good dmg
fleet zealot
No need
hollow dove
so then just this?
fleet zealot
And can sub out good balance the. You’ll hit duelist and sustained assault
polar nexus
But mark 2 got such braindead horde clear
it's like an ogryn weapon
surreal shore
all or nothing + headtaker + desperation is kinda silly, it outputs some really ...
Tbf I never really get hit xD
fleet zealot
You have enduring faith so good balance gets diminishing returns
hollow dove
ah ye fair
surreal shore
it's like an ogryn weapon
Basically yeah
spare talon
No need
tbh i dont see an issue if its just for the sake of penances
youll get the invis up for another kill just a little faster
polar nexus
Tbf I never really get hit xD
wdym?
fleet zealot
Ehh i guess
spare talon
for like an actually good build yeah no
fleet zealot
All or nothing scales RT tho so you never get the full value really
surreal shore
Yeah I personally don't plsy around blocks honestly I think devil claw and shock maul are the weapons that truly use it ?
polar nexus
All or nothing scales RT tho so you never get the full value really
i reach it quite often but i am mostly around 3-4 stacks
fleet zealot
Id just go shred tbh
You need crit lights to chop through carapace
And it has good finesse
So HT shred
polar nexus
Yeah I personally don't plsy around blocks honestly I think devil claw and shock...
you're not blocking, you're doing a push attack
ht shred is good too
fleet zealot
I fucking love and hate fatshark
For having taxe adms on carapace be the same or greater on lights than heavies
I would have never figured it out organically
Same shit with caxes and their maniac adms
modern lintel
So can decapitator build multiple stacks off one swing if paired w brutal momentum
surreal shore
ht shred is good too
Tbf I would never give up on BM
polar nexus
but after a week of playing non stop aon + headtaker on vet and zealot i do very good dmg
bm only matters if you reach bp
surreal shore
Same shit with caxes and their maniac adms
Those are not the only weapons in the game like that
fleet zealot
So can decapitator build multiple stacks off one swing if paired w brutal moment...
Yes, but you might be limited on what you can BM until you get your stats
fleet zealot
Those are not the only weapons in the game like that
I dont wanna think about it
surreal shore
I dont wanna think about it
Guess what achlys combat axe got normal daamage on its h1 against manaics xD
polar nexus
For having taxe adms on carapace be the same or greater on lights than heavies
it's roughly the same with unyielding
modern lintel
Yes, but you might be limited on what you can BM until you get your stats
Its p much all 79 on a rashad but only t3 bm
surreal shore
Ogryn club h1 on pride and h2 on brunt special club do waaaaay more unyielding damage than the other heavy
polar nexus
also shred + ht / double power blessings will help you a lot more against a boss
fleet zealot
Its p much all 79 on a rashad but only t3 bm
Mostly without stacks you’d miss elites and i’d check bruisers
opaque island
do yall think the Fanatic voice or the Judge voice fits a Sister cosplay better?
fleet zealot
do yall think the Fanatic voice or the Judge voice fits a Sister cosplay better?
Depends
Fanatic is def more well, fanatical and off the walls, judge is more level headed
polar nexus
nope
surreal shore
Out of the females ?
opaque island
Out of the females ?
dah
surreal shore
I think the old lady one is the best
fleet zealot
Agitator is a big softy def not SoB material
modern lintel
Mostly without stacks you’d miss elites and i’d check bruisers
This is also w vet w all their diff melee buffs and weapon specialist involved
fleet zealot
This is also w vet w all their diff melee buffs and weapon specialist involved
Id def not go decap then tbh
surreal shore
I like the posh one i forgot which one it was
fleet zealot
Bruisers might fuck you over but iyou can try it
Might work
Agitator is the fake posh one that has the fake accent
modern lintel
Im p sure its one shotting mutants on weakspot
fleet zealot
But they are also a softy on the inside, especially to the ogryns and even a little bit to the psyker
fleet zealot
Judge is levelheaded for a zealot and pretty standard
surreal shore
I like judge cuz I met the voice actor for male one irl
fleet zealot
Fanatic is all fire and brimstone, doesn’t fake the few bits of high gothic they know, and will tell ogryns they don’t have a soul to their face
Fanatic is also the one with the Khorne-ish line with fotf
polar nexus
Mostly without stacks you’d miss elites and i’d check bruisers
i have a 80*4 rashad , without any stacks and t4 flak and unarmored, you don't get os bp on both bruisers.... you need to be a vet to do that. But as a zealot you always have some stacks going around so that's not a problem
opaque island
Argenta my beloved
polar nexus
Vet should be able to 4 shot crushers
3 with carapace and maybe elite, but carapace
obsidian prairie
Argenta my beloved
Argenta on her way to solo act 5
fleet zealot
i have a 80*4 rashad , without any stacks and t4 flak and unarmored, you don't g...
I mean yea zealot with no stacks
Zealot outstacks vet tho and quickly
polar nexus
i mean you were right
fleet zealot
Martyrdom build alone will carry decap much farther than vet can
polar nexus
yeahh
fleet zealot
And in general vet wants a consistent melee tool
HT is consistent, they can make mercy killer consistent etc etc.
polar nexus
i like using taxe or knife on vet, mostly for mobility
rashad is quite sluggish without the attack speed buff
(also why i am not a fan of rashad on psyker)
median steeple
Could you make chaxe work on vet? Or is it just better to use it on zealot
Been meaning to try them out
cinder roost
Could you make chaxe work on vet? Or is it just better to use it on zealot
yes, im partial to the mk 12 with an infiltrate build
plasma or double barrel shotgun for ranged
cinder roost
one stack of the reload talent gives you a shell in the chamber of the shotgun
/usetalents veteran 22;6|1,7|1,11|1,12|1,13|1,14|1,15|1,19|1,21|1,23|1,25|1,26|1,36|1,41|1,52|1,53|1,55|1,56|1,61|1,66|1,67|1,70|1,71|1,75|1,77|1,79|1,81|1,89|1,92|1,93|1
my talents and the mk 12 i use
my shotgun needs work but its serviceable
manstopper + scattershot would be the best imo but i dont have access to them yet
median steeple
I don't have either and I'm too lazy to try for manstopper
God I can't wait for the update
viral ravine
heavy swords still good?
spare talon
yes
median steeple
i keep trying for them and not finding them
Do you have a level 20 character?
Or I guess 19 for psyker
cinder roost
i have everything at super high levels
median steeple
It's better to have a lower level character get those blessings
cinder roost
yea
cinder roost
not sure why the made them t2 instead of t4 if there was only going to be one level of them, their design is... ugh
spare talon
not sure why the made them t2 instead of t4 if there was only going to be one le...
supposedly all blessings are going to go from t1-4 in the new update
@hard nexus completed tutorial
was greeted by MENU HELL
spare talon
this is
atrocious
hard nexus
<@265332960792805378> completed tutorial
was greeted by MENU HELL
yeah it’s getting reworked in the next update actually
it’s not too bad once u get used to it
if u wanna play ping me or psycho :3
or both
spare talon
theres (sort of) permadeath? thats super duper stinky
ornate bone
T4 manstopper: pierces crushers with full damage
hard nexus
and when you die you lose the hunter and their gear
but nothing else
and weapons are relatively cheap compared to most other extraction shooters
spare talon
yeah i did watch like 18 levels happen from the fucking tutorial and i went "huh thats probably indicitive of something ill learn soon"
hard nexus
lmao
yeah
for the beginning though
you won’t lose hunters
i think it’s the first like
20 bloodline levels
spare talon
11
spare talon
i have to make gameplay choices
this is so cringe
whoever decided i should be required to think to play a video game will pay
hard nexus
i have to make gameplay choices
this is so cringe
whoever decided i should be re...
okay u wanna know how to win
north sedge
lol cole actually got hunt
vestal pine
T4 manstopper: pierces crushers with full damage
25% stagger bonus instead of 15%
north sedge
Crazy
spare talon
lol cole actually got hunt
i was getting burnt out from darktide and i literally have nothing left to do in TFD besides leveling my shit which is boring as fuck
so i needed SOMETHING
median steeple
lol cole actually got hunt
Peer pressure is a great thing when you think about it
median steeple
Hallo
spare talon
Peer pressure is a great thing when you think about it
its not peer pressure
hard nexus
‘
spare talon
its just your turn
hard nexus
!
spare talon
plus i got it on cdkeys for 5 bucks cheaper lole
ornate bone
I've been trying to get into Dungeonborne, which is an extraction """shooter""" with medieval fantasy theme
vestal pine
i was getting burnt out from darktide and i literally have nothing left to do in...
go play leaked sm2 :troll;
hard nexus
Answer is I will join when it starts
okay send that in the gc idiot
hard nexus
plus i got it on cdkeys for 5 bucks cheaper lole
hell yeah
spare talon
i will say though
i will probably also be ass at the pve in this
hard nexus
i will say though
i will probably also be ass at the pve in this
the pve is really easy
spare talon
i fucking died to the spider in the advanced tutorial
hard nexus
i fucking died to the spider in the advanced tutorial
it takes a little getting used it
to
median steeple
Nah DW we die to bosses all the time
median steeple
hard nexus
cica doesn’t
hard nexus
cica gets disappointed in us when we do
ornate bone
I miss Cica
hard nexus
I miss Cica
sending this 2 him rn
hard nexus
I miss Cica
what was ur username back then
ornate bone
I have always been Sterling
hard nexus
ohg
frosty herald
I had the idea to complete the game in rage mode
But then i remembered crash site exists
spare talon
https://tenor.com/view/trepang2-gif-14534662771610938522
literally never heard of that game
frosty herald
Aint no way
Its a spiritual successor to fear and a giant shitpost
The protag is a dude who had his dna spliced with a sea cucumber
frosty herald
Bladekisser released for it
spare talon
Its a spiritual successor to fear and a giant shitpost
ok so looking into it i was thinking it was this other game first
the game i remember hearing about but really stuck into my memory was the shitpost from gianni about it
find that video
oh thats fear 2
frosty herald
spare talon
i think?
idk im basing that revelation on the title of the youtube shorts remix in the discription
or maybe it is what im thinking of?
ok no yeah i was right from the get go
frosty herald
spiral anvil
I heard something about swords and trepang
modern lintel
Whats even the story of trepang are you just some nameless dickhead running around vegetablizing random grunts or
viral ravine
super soldier eugenics, thunderdome edition
frosty herald
Your a clone that needs to destroy le evil corporation
spare talon
aka based department
clone of the based department laying siege upon cringe enterprises
frosty herald
spare talon
https://tenor.com/view/dropkick-trepang2-subject-106-asskicking-guy-gets-kicked-...
i watched a bit of that video you sent
dude slid into a guy with a riot shield and sent him fucking flying off the map
frosty herald
If you get the game be wary that if you dont use the incendiary shotgun on extreme+ your going to get an aneurysm
modern lintel
Looks sort of like an upgored version of cyberpunk combat tbh
median steeple
spare talon
frosty herald
modern lintel
It destroys me that l4d2 is p much unaccessible on console outside of owning the actual disc now
And all the dlcs actually
spare talon
i mean you can still play it if you have a console, just requires a really weird workaround
spare talon
so first you have to go to gamestop
sell your console
go to newegg
modern lintel
Orange box is is only half life portal and tf2
Rare bare bones dust and dirt tf2 gameplay
modern lintel
Sucks just as much is i know i had the disc for both l4d1 and 2 at some point
Iv got the orange box on digital actually
spare talon
Sucks just as much is i know i had the disc for both l4d1 and 2 at some point
i genuinely remember when i was a kid seeing l4d and l4d2 side by side in gamestop and frys multiple times
modern lintel
I remember being a kid and buying half life 2 ,the godfather, and halo 2 for the org xbox at gamestop as a kid they all scared the absolute shit out of me so i played a ton of godfather
Everything was gravy w halo2 untill the mission where the flood rolls up then it was major joever
blissful tendon
is it still flak maniac for devilclaw
ornate bone
I remember being a kid
blissful tendon
can never remember if this thing was one of the exceptions for perks
ornate bone
It was nice
spare talon
is it still flak maniac for devilclaw
flak maniac, flak elites, whatever
i use flak elites cuz i got t4s of both locked in
and i kinda like it that way
ornate bone
So, for now
I'm getting the hint of that "pointless layers of RNG" that I had in Warframe
But also fighting the colossi solo is pretty fun
In public people just explode them in 5 shots
spare talon
I'm getting the hint of that "pointless layers of RNG" that I had in Warframe
its more aggressive here though
by design
very much made to push you to the cash shop to buy whatever your grinding for
korean game and all that
but we perservere and grind it out anyway to give a big middle finger to the games monetization
spare talon
In public people just explode them in 5 shots
yeah youre matching with people who have beaten the campaign and thus have access to lvl 100 gear
literally just the sheer fact that everything in hardmode (unlocked after the story) is at lvl 100 means they can just stroll up with an unmodded weapon and 2 shot early collosi
opaque island
what game are yall talking about?
spare talon
the first descendant
ornate bone
but we perservere and grind it out anyway to give a big middle finger to the gam...
sigmar male
spare talon
that explains alot
yeah
but surprisingly
the hotfixes theyve been churning out have been absolute bangers
theyre like "hey we see people using this exploit for a thing, we're patching that, but we see how annoying the currency yall were exploiting was to get, so we've increased how much you get of it by 50% and we're gonna add more sources of it later"
"hey we see the community farming this one spot which has a bugged spawnrate that we didnt intend for this mission and its better than all the other farming spots. since its become a favorite spot of the community, instead of removing it, we're just toning it down to match all of the other popular spots"
"oh hey btw we increased all enemy crafting material drops in the hard mode by 50% completely unprompted 
"
oh yeah lets increase how much money you get from this money consumable by TEN TIMES
median steeple
I hate how TFD has so much loot bloat
I DONT WANT 5 WEAPONS WHEN I DO A WORLD MISSION
AND 6 RANDOM UPGRADES !
spare talon
I DONT WANT 5 WEAPONS WHEN I DO A WORLD MISSION
you do have an inventory space of like 70-100+ depending on your mr
and you can set your filter to include what kinda things you dont want so you can instantly mark it all as junk and break it down into mats
median steeple
God I should do that
It wouldn't be a problem if I could dismantle while being shot
frosty herald
Actualy good nexon decisions for once
spare talon
Actualy good nexon decisions for once
dude so much of these are bangers
and they have dev notes too
like who the fuck are these people
like it seems like the devs actually really do give a shit about the game
cash shop is still a big stinky but we can just
not buy stuff from it
hot jolt
spare talon
this man looks like hed download a car
hot jolt
@gusty stag ^
frosty herald
Devs actualy looking into why people use the exploit is goated
spare talon
Devs actualy looking into why people use the exploit is goated
ik
it feels so good to literally see things that im like "god this sucks" change a few days after i think that
ornate bone
I think they should buff Ultra Bunny's chest
spare talon
i think they should nerf your lifespan
ornate bone
ornate bone
100% peril
frosty herald
Most devs would just remove the exploit
spare talon
like to fully explain what that exactly is
there are these reactors on the maps that spawn a boss, and once you kill it you can crack open a specific thing with its own loot pool
to spawn that boss you need to have a set amount of this currency
which you get by doing these quick little 2 wave enemy killing things that are tied to whatever element your character is
typically mostly 1 type and then a bit of another
which is a similar ratio you get from that wave thing, but youd need to do that about 3x to actually use it
they said "yeah cuz we fixed this exploit, and that 12:3 ratio you got before? now its 19:4"
and now that we've gotten to fully optimizing it
the drop increases are FELT
ornate bone
real and true
nimble fiber
spare talon
<:blair_sit:1262919557866066031>
oh you might like to know this
ive learned that one of the fire void fragments can be blitz farmed with blair, like the video above
found it, its the one on hagios, dune base
gives mostly organic and some monomer
nimble fiber
good 2 know, appreciate it
trying to farm for divine punishment currently to make it stronger
covert oyster
I think they have done something with Armoury since yesterday it sell a lot of 370+ now
my dockets will run out at this rate 
spare talon
trying to farm for divine punishment currently to make it stronger
ive also seen some weapon platform blair gameplay, and it was a boss nuking build with enduring legacy
but that gun is a BITCH to get
let alone maxing it
spare talon
like i think it was killing hardmode devourer in 16 seconds
nimble fiber
polar nexus
Zealot Hell Descendant chat
frosty herald
like i think it was killing hardmode devourer in 16 seconds
Modded terraria be like:
still quartz
Modded terraria be like:
The Destroyer watching me set up multitudes of piercing weapons to absolutely turn him into atoms:
obsidian prairie
The destroyer watching me use Avalanche (the fight is already over, your spawn protection will not save you)
nimble fiber
like i think it was killing hardmode devourer in 16 seconds
cole ngl it got to the point where I believe that shape stabilizer's are a joke from the devs
literally everytime I used them, I got the Item that got the rarest chance of dropping
spare talon
literally everytime I used them, I got the Item that got the rarest chance of dr...
especially when you wanted the 10% drop?
frosty herald
Ip grabber
spare talon
yeah google tends to do that
frosty herald
drowsy steppe
what will I find here
spare talon
oh is that not the original one
nimble fiber
cole do a backflip pls
spare talon
i think i sent my own copy hold on
frosty herald
What kind of anticheat does tfd have?
nimble fiber
Imma read that at some point when Im more awake
drowsy steppe
see this would've interested me had it been something I actually know about
spare talon
What kind of anticheat does tfd have?
easyanticheat
frosty herald
I might start playing it then
drowsy steppe
should I
frosty herald
The korean eboy and ajax look cool
spare talon
this is straight up a sheet copy thing
nimble fiber
yes
drowsy steppe
its f2p rite
spare talon
The korean eboy and ajax look cool
oh yujin? the healer
frosty herald
Yeah
nimble fiber
def need to get yujin at some point
gleaming hawk
mal play tfd if u have good rng
don't do it, it's a trap
spare talon
its f2p rite
yes
nimble fiber
don't do it, it's a trap
nah it isn't
farming is pretty convenient if your rng is good
drowsy steppe
ok korean's Ass Destiny game looks good ngl
frosty herald
I like looking at the women but im gonna play as a dude
nimble fiber
cause u can almost look everything up in the game
tells u where something drops
what the chances are
pretty convenient
gleaming hawk
farming is pretty convenient if your rng is good
Me farming ult bunny since the game released and still only 2/4 parts 😔
spare talon
i will say that there is one thing i did eventually have to spend money on, but not much
you have a total of 10 character slots, and there are 14 unique ones right now, and you can buy more slots to hold them
or you can just not care about other characters and keep the ones you want
nimble fiber
I just want the last divine punishment part to make the weapon stronger
gleaming hawk
cause u can almost look everything up in the game
eh, I actually find the in-game info less convenient and orderly.
frosty herald
Enzo and kyle also seem pret cool
spare talon
so you dont HAVE to
but thats probably the only thing any reasonable person would want to drop 5 bucks for
nimble fiber
and when I finally get the shit item I want, where I technically could get the drop I want, it gives me stuff I didn't ask for
gleaming hawk
so you dont HAVE to
but thats probably the only thing any reasonable person woul...
I do wish there was a F2P method to earn slots
spare talon
eh, I actually find the in-game info less convenient and orderly.
then copy the spreadsheet above
it is so huge
frosty herald
They should add trading
nimble fiber
u know what else is huge
spare talon
gleaming hawk
then copy the spreadsheet above
Just give me an organized and easily-searchable wiki like Warframe
nimble fiber
the argentinosaurus
spare talon
They should add trading
they said its planned
they had planned to have it added per the directors words during the open betas
dont know when its coming tho
gleaming hawk
dont know when its coming tho
Soon™️
frosty herald
Im lowballing every dude with a high tier weapon
spare talon
if i had to guess theyre duking it out with nexon suits trying to get one that doesnt make players want to kill themselves
spare talon
Im lowballing every dude with a high tier weapon
wdym
frosty herald
"I know my worth" aight bet heres 2 energy bars and a snickers
nimble fiber
imm gonna go get a chocolate milk to calm myself
gleaming hawk
Wish Darktide was capable of making pretty people like in TFD. I just want to look fabulous while slaying heretics without a bag over my head.
frosty herald
spare talon
Me farming ult bunny since the game released and still only 2/4 parts 😔
im currently at 19/19 descendants and all weapons save for 2 of the ones you get from missions cuz im lazy
spare talon
i have only half of them leveled
nimble fiber
nah cole definitely is everything besides lazy
spare talon
and 2 of them that im making builds for that i need to keep leveling after using mod tuning materials
but i just dont want to fucking do that
nimble fiber
understandable
gleaming hawk
im currently at 19/19 descendants and all weapons save for 2 of the ones you get...
I see where all my luck has gone
spare talon
i literally hit the slots for days to get everything and now that ive done all that the literal only thing i have left to do is level a bajillion things and id sooner eat nails than spend 3 days straight leveling
i do hope they make leveling more interesting
gleaming hawk
See, the trick is to level them while doing other things
nimble fiber
lmao
spare talon
cuz currently most ways at the endgame to level are just so fucking boring
like its a lot easier with bunny, viessa, and vauby cuz they have good dedicated spots
nimble fiber
look at the scenery or something
spare talon
but good luck leveling fucking yujin
have fun hanging onto the coattails of a bunny doing the bunny cave void fragment and not getting any of the void shards cuz youre not an electric character
for 40 minutes stright
gleaming hawk
I have levelled 4 descendants solely in pursuit of ult bunny. I don't know why you wouldn't multitask like that in a game like this.
spare talon
I have levelled 4 descendants solely in pursuit of ult bunny. I don't know why y...
i did
i used 5 catalysts on the ult bunny i got while grinding for everything else
i leveled her up 6 times total
gleaming hawk
Some people have all the luck
Fella's complaining that their RNG is too good so now they have nothing to farm while levelling characters
spare talon
plus when one half of getting AMs is basically sharen only
and the other half is hard score based infiltrates which are 3x faster with bunny
using other characters is just slowing yourself down
frosty herald
Does yujin have damage skills?
spare talon
esp since the xp from both are neglectable
spare talon
Does yujin have damage skills?
frosty herald
Bruh
gleaming hawk
plus when one half of getting AMs is basically sharen only
and the other half is...
while true, you still have to farm void shards and minibosses as part of that process. That opens it up to a lot of descendants.
humble dome
gleaming hawk
That's also only true for the ults, the regs have more varied stuff going on
nimble fiber
for 40 minutes stright
real
spare talon
Bruh
characters do have mods that augment abilities like in warframe though
i wouldnt be surprised if he has one that changes his ability to be able to deal damage
nimble fiber
and also relatable
gleaming hawk
No unarmored?
humble dome
frosty herald
characters do have mods that augment abilities like in warframe though
i wouldnt...
Damaging drone that decreases enemy attack or smt
humble dome
i want those crushers dead
nimble fiber
the guy is perfect for divine punishment tho
gleaming hawk
You do you but I wouldn't like such an axe
spare talon
while true, you still have to farm void shards and minibosses as part of that pr...
but there are void shard spots that are so unbelievably faster, like the bunny cave for mono and inorganic, and the viessa fortress one for poly and organic
both can take 10-20 seconds each
and minibosses just simply dont give any exp to be worth using an unleveled character for
frosty herald
How long does it take to farm an ultimate
gleaming hawk
but there are void shard spots that are so unbelievably faster, like the bunny c...
You can farm shards pretty fast in a number of spots with the right builds, those are just the best known
frosty herald
Cause im not spending allat money
gleaming hawk
How long does it take to farm an ultimate
20-40 hours of dedicated farming iirc?
On average
spare talon
How long does it take to farm an ultimate
heavily depending on rng and what character, but typically anywhere from 8-16
gleaming hawk
I've long surpassed 40 tho
gleaming hawk
heavily depending on rng and what character, but typically anywhere from 8-16
Maybe for you, but those numbers don't sound right at all based on averages and rates
spare talon
Maybe for you, but those numbers don't sound right at all based on averages and ...
considering all the changes theyve made recently, its probably faster than your estimate, cuz thats mostly based on stuff like pre-outpost timer change
spare talon
is that reborn trwhatshisface in white night gulch
gleaming hawk
the one that heals, teleports, and constantly spawns duplicates, yes
spare talon
yes
spare talon
https://tenor.com/view/the-first-descendant-tfd-descendants-yujin-yujin-tfd-gif-...
he has one of the best moments in the story
one of the only good moments
gleaming hawk
ngl, those types of characters have an anti-rizz effect on me
spare talon
the story is a giant nothing burger btw dont expect anything from it
gleaming hawk
I skipped the story so hard I didn't even know ||Jeremy died||
spare talon
theres that good moment with yujin thats kinda hard to miss even if youve been ignoring the story
spare talon
same with a fucking awesome action sequence in a cutscene that has no right being as good as it is
jeremy's a grade A dick but gahd damn he can fuck shit up
gleaming hawk
theres that good moment with yujin thats kinda hard to miss even if youve been i...
I missed whatever you're talking about, only thing I know about him is ||his teammates got fullmetal alchemisted||
spare talon
I missed whatever you're talking about, only thing I know about him is ||his tea...
that whole cutscene with him after that mission in echo swamp
gleaming hawk
99% sure I skipped that
frosty herald
What should i expect as the setting
Anything similar to compare it to
(Dont mention warframe)
spare talon
What should i expect as the setting
define the setting
like where youre fighting, or what
frosty herald
Enemies world etc
spare talon
3 main subfactions of the same overall generic "evil mcbadguy aliens"
the more military looking guys
the weird as fuck guys that remind me of the hive from destiny
and the robotic ones
calm salmon
I'm still not sure how I feel about TFD
gleaming hawk
Anything similar to compare it to
Destiny
calm salmon
The more I play it, the more it feels like just a bunch of systems designed to bait people into buying big booty bitches
Which is, I guess, fair.
gleaming hawk
https://youtu.be/z8ov8RDZltE?si=qhOlDyPLB7da-tMO
Oh hey, that is actually surprisingly good
spare talon
areas are very generic but have some cool setpeices every now and again, ranging from stuff like the snowy fortress, the desert, the desert but theres a factory there
the mountains
calm salmon
TFD is like a mix of destiny and warframe wrapped up in an assless pants package
gleaming hawk
The game to me feels very Destiny-esque in aesthetic and story, and Warframe-like in mechanics
nimble fiber
I actually like vesper and the first area the most from the looks I think
spare talon
like some parts of the map are actually really cool looking despite how bland most of the rest is
calm salmon
Void Interceptions 🤮
The void in Warframe is fucking stellar and then in TFD its like "Here's room number 105, it's the same as the other 104 rooms"
gleaming hawk
Void Interceptions 🤮
You will get stunned by floating tops and like it
spare talon
Void Interceptions 🤮
is this about the aesthetic of them or just overall
calm salmon
Aesthetic.
spare talon
cuz most people like the actuall boss fights there
gleaming hawk
I honestly dislike the boss fights.
calm salmon
Because they're the ones with actual mechanics
spare talon
why can u get stunned when u are in the air
vanguard
calm salmon
Hanged Man, Obstructor, Frost Walker
and I think there's one more? Maybe 2
Out of the 20 that have actual mechanics
spare talon
and I think there's one more? Maybe 2
molten fortress
and then a new one comes out on wednesday
gleaming hawk
I especially hate timers in games, but I guess that's a me thing.
calm salmon
Oh, the boss timer.
spare talon
kill it before it runs out
nimble fiber
yee
calm salmon
That's a DPS/Knowledge check
spare talon
yeah
calm salmon
more than any kind of actual timer
frosty herald
I heard vin and argus say the last 2 minutes are where the real dps check is
gleaming hawk
Sure, but I still dislike it.
nimble fiber
really appreciate cool spots where i can chill
gleaming hawk
Like, if I want to kill the boss 1 dmg at a time, let me do that. Arbitrarily stopping the thing because a certain amount of time has passed just feels stupid.
And for context, I've never actually ran out of time in TFD, I just hate timers
spare talon
i mean if you have a brain
the timers never an issue tbh
calm salmon
Its not an MMO where if you want 1 tank and 39 healers to take the longest possible time to kill a raid boss, you can.
nimble fiber
bro to the boss be like: wait hold up, lemme roll up before we end this
gleaming hawk
Let me style on the hardmode boss with a lvl 1 gun
calm salmon
Its not an MMO where if you want 1 tank and 39 healers to take the longest possi...
And stuff like this is just as stupid as a time-limit
gleaming hawk
Let me do it TFD
frosty herald
Sounds like yujin is perfect to be lazy
calm salmon
In any case, TFD has real problems with the actual gameplay loop.
It's all secondary to the fact that you can outright buy descendants
There's only a handful of interesting things to do, and the rest is farming mobs that can't kill you
gleaming hawk
And stuff like this is just as stupid as a time-limit
I fully support player stupidity
spare talon
Sounds like yujin is perfect to be lazy
saw a video of a yujin in a hardmode boss fight just standing behind a wall with his abilities active borderline afk and the video just zoomed in on the teammates health drop then zip back up to full repeatedly
calm salmon
It. . . makes me miss Warframe honestly
calm salmon
DE is more than happy to go "Have fun murdering literally thousands of enemies in one mission"
gleaming hawk
I don't see how that's any different from Warframe
calm salmon
And TFD is going "buh uh buh ONE ENEMY AT A TIME"
spare talon
It. . . makes me miss Warframe honestly <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
yeah
but my issue is that im already mr 33 and dont have much of anything left to grind
nimble fiber
after I upgraded my divine punishment
calm salmon
I don't see how that's any different from Warframe
TFD outright doesn't spawn enemies
There's ONE mission with an absurd amount of enemies and that's it
spare talon
TFD outright doesn't spawn enemies
calm salmon
everything else is packs of 4-6 every 3 seconds
spare talon
where are the enemies
whered they go
calm salmon
It's fucking 💤
gleaming hawk
I mean, that's an issue with their spawning system yeah, enemies always come in waves
calm salmon
And then yeah, you get shit like this
Warframe's tilesets mean that enemies spawn ahead of and behind you
spare talon
It's fucking 💤
its destiny combat encounter design in a warframe sandbox
calm salmon
Warframe's tilesets mean that enemies spawn ahead of and behind you
and their engine can actually handle the amount of enemies frames can kill
I dunno. TFD has a long road ahead of it. Remains to be seen if nexon sticks with it
in the meantime, its an easy game to play, if somewhat boring overall
gleaming hawk
you right
nimble fiber
definitely needs more chill spots on albion!
spare talon
in the meantime, its an easy game to play, if somewhat boring overall
ooga gambling make ooga brain happy
calm salmon
in the meantime, its an easy game to play, if somewhat boring overall
Which is kind of my issue with it. It feels like a game designed around selling half-naked women and uber buff dudes more than a game first, with that as a reward
I don't mind the idea, just the execution. Gameplay always comes first
gleaming hawk
I dunno. TFD has a long road ahead of it. Remains to be seen if nexon sticks wit...
and it's Nexon of all companies
spare talon
we'll see what they have cooking in this new update besides ult vauby and the new collosi
gleaming hawk
Which is kind of my issue with it. It feels like a game designed around selling ...
Nah, I think that's a little harsh. Most Asian games go all in on attractiveness.
calm salmon
Ult Valby looks fuckin ridiculous, speaking of.
calm salmon
Granted, we have Ult Bunny with bare ass and tits bigger than the moon
Ult Gley with a pretty prominent sideleg showing all the business
so I shouldn't be surprised, and yet here I am
gleaming hawk
I feel like you're complaining characters are designed to be attractive
which is fair, but also eh
nimble fiber
and still no maid dresses for ajax or kyle
calm salmon
I think its just because its Valby lmao
spare talon
if ult blair doesnt have a 16 pack on full display we riot
calm salmon
You know, the one chick who can't get reproductive
nimble fiber
oh definitely
frosty herald
It's fucking 💤
Erm zenless zone zero???
gleaming hawk
You know, the *one* chick who can't get reproductive
Isn't Sharen literally a head on a robot suit
calm salmon
Isn't Sharen literally a head on a robot suit
With technology and will, there's a way
spare talon
Erm zenless zone zero???
gacha game
opinion discarded
calm salmon
valby will just straight up die if she's out of the suit so I dunno
spare talon
by the fucking way
WHO KEEPS PUTTING EVERY GACHA GAME AD KNOWN TO MAN IN MY FACE
gleaming hawk
valby will just straight up die if she's out of the suit so I dunno
With technology and will, there's a way
spiral anvil
by the fucking way
WHO KEEPS PUTTING EVERY GACHA GAME AD KNOWN TO MAN IN MY FACE
The gacha company 
calm salmon
well, the tech is "Here's a suit that keeps you corporeal"
spare talon
i must have seen 200 ZZZ ads by now
calm salmon
I don't get ads
spiral anvil
Also cookies
calm salmon
unless I watch twitch
gleaming hawk
well, the tech is "Here's a suit that keeps you corporeal"
If they can make a suit, they can make a bedroom
calm salmon
then I get ads 😔
frosty herald
gacha game
opinion discarded
spiral anvil
Give too much data
spare talon
most of them being the one where the fucking guy slaps his ass before the skip button appears
spiral anvil
spare talon
and the others being straight up animation memes and not advertising the actual game
frosty herald
most of them being the one where the fucking guy slaps his ass before the skip b...
He does have the gyatt tho
spare talon
like ive seen all these fucking adds for it
and i dont know what a single frame of gameplay looks like
spiral anvil
Because the actual game is trash
spare talon
clearly
frosty herald
Its similar to dmc
gleaming hawk
and the others being straight up animation memes and not advertising the actual ...
when do F2P games actually advertise the game truthfully
frosty herald
But like 0 actual gameplay depth
gleaming hawk
especially gacha
spare talon
when do F2P games actually advertise the game truthfully
warframe
frosty herald
Zzz doesnt even have air juggling
spare talon
But like 0 actual gameplay depth
gacha players couldnt understand it anyway
spare talon
i think the funniest fucking thing to me
calm salmon
gacha games are a blight upon humanity
spare talon
is that genshin has an element system
calm salmon
That forces you to interact with the gacha system
spare talon
and different elemental debuffs can combine to make new ones
calm salmon
Skill? Nope. only gamba
gleaming hawk
It's an awful element system
spare talon
but there are so many fucking possibilities
that its impossible to not combine them
and all of them are just a different flavor of more damage
spiral anvil
All I know is wet
spare talon
so you dont have to think
calm salmon
speaking of, I can make new elemental damage in warframe by mixing elemental mods
BUT I CANT IN TFD
spare talon
just fucking spam attack
nimble fiber
calm salmon
no toxin+fire to create explosive gas 😔
gleaming hawk
BUT I CANT IN TFD
Just give TFD props for not copying Warframe for the billionth time
calm salmon
no
I'd rather they copy this particular system
Right now its just "Boss weak to fire, put fire mod on"
remove that whole system
and literally nothing changes
frosty herald
Zzz could have dmc combat
calm salmon
but one less step to building a gun
frosty herald
But its just boring
gleaming hawk
Right now its just "Boss weak to fire, put fire mod on"
Your move was super effective!
spare talon
speaking of, I can make new elemental damage in warframe by mixing elemental mod...
element mods are literally just used as either a flat bonus to damage, or extra damage against whatever its weak to
there is realistically no reason to ever use it for the sake of status debuffs
cuz they do no fucking damage
frosty herald
Just copy borderlands
gleaming hawk
I use chill to freeze
calm salmon
chill is unironically the only good one
spare talon
I use chill to freeze
i think thats the only one with a use
but by the point they freeze
calm salmon
because of said freezing
spare talon
most enemies would have died
gleaming hawk
or did before I levelled my mods enough to just murder things
frosty herald
Freeze yujin
gleaming hawk
most enemies would have died
shield bros annoy me
calm salmon
But yeah, the whole elemental system in TFD is. . . ass
gleaming hawk
I mean, maybe they'll fix the DoTs
nimble fiber
most annoying enemy's are the tentacle mfs
gleaming hawk
but it is Nexon so....
calm salmon
I guarantee that if they fix player applied dots, it changes enemy applied dots too
inb4 pyro deletes whole teams in .05 seconds because his dot does 135105159089021435 damage per second
gleaming hawk
I mean, even if true it wouldn't be a huge amount of work to separate and fix that.
calm salmon
Helldivers 2
I will repeat, Helldivers 2
It took them 6 months to unlink Enemy/Player dots
frosty herald
Dumbest shit imaginable
spiral anvil
Hellcringing 2
gleaming hawk
Sure, and?
frosty herald
Even elden ring seperated pve pvp changes
calm salmon
Just pointing out that your statement is close to wrong.
There's nothing simple in development.
gleaming hawk
Look, I know people love Helldivers 2 but on the technical side of things they really aren't great
spiral anvil
Imagine taking your entire run away success and throwing it in the gutter 💨
calm salmon
Their game still runs like poo for me
gleaming hawk
There's nothing simple in development.
As a developer, you are correct, but as a developer, you are wrong
calm salmon
granted, anything made after like 2020 runs like poo for me
Global Illumination can suck my nuts
every game that uses it obliterates my fps
gleaming hawk
Anyway, I would never, ever hold up HD2 as anything near technical excellence. They have bumbled tons of things in the short time I've paid attention to them.
solar gorge
Imagine taking your entire run away success and throwing it in the gutter 💨
nothing was thrown game just went the natural "way out" all game do
calm salmon
Kinda funny that HD2 went from "What to do" to "What Not To Do" in the span of 3 or 4 months
solar gorge
you can't keep 300k+ player counts forever
frosty herald
Was the bug where opening the menu reducing fps true?
calm salmon
A lot of that is Sony's fault, granted.
But the devs in Arrowhead being combative with the community and becoming trolls themselves didn't help
solar gorge
i'm still impressed the game retained that many players for this long tbh
unprecedented for a game of this genre
gleaming hawk
It's still very big.
frosty herald
I wouldve expected the playerbase to be around 40k realistically
calm salmon
Arrowhead expected a peak of 100k
with maybe 30k as the daily average
and they did 10x that for nearly 6 months
solar gorge
But the devs in Arrowhead being combative with the community and becoming trolls...
the community is extremely idiotic so I kinda get it somewhat
spiral anvil
12k is like payday2 levels
solar gorge
source of the worst takes I've ever seen in gaming history
spiral anvil
Or even l4d2 levels
calm salmon
source of the worst takes I've ever seen in gaming history
release darktide was worse
lets be honest
solar gorge
iunno
gleaming hawk
Imagine being here for release Darktide
solar gorge
at least with dt the braindamaged take stopped earlier
spiral anvil
Haha
solar gorge
with hd2 it never stops
spiral anvil
Dead game
calm salmon
Well, insofar as modern numbers would point to anyway
Normal for Fatshark, 4-7k players a day
frosty herald
Release darktide fumbled so unimaginably hard
spiral anvil
Still 50 times more successful than payday3
frosty herald
Seems like swedish games or this engine is cursed
solar gorge
No game is dead to me aslong as I can find a match quickly so I couldn't care less about concurrent player counts tbh
calm salmon
In DT's case, it was just down to Fatshark
gleaming hawk
You think SM2 will siphon players from Darktide?
calm salmon
Their community managers were a huge problem on release
the game ran like shit, servers didn't work
(The game still runs like shit)
solar gorge
I think sm2 will be the middest thing to ever mid
calm salmon
Balance was nonexistant
solar gorge
but will still pull somewhat strong at the start because spectacle
frosty herald
I think sm2 will be the middest thing to ever mid
If you saw how the leaked build looked
calm salmon
LALALALALALALA
drowsy steppe
You think SM2 will siphon players from Darktide?
for a week maybe
calm salmon
DO NOT
solar gorge
I did
solar gorge
I saw everything
drowsy steppe
but then again, it will siphon player retention from other playerbase
calm salmon
Thank you sem
gleaming hawk
Balance was nonexistant
still pretty bad
frosty herald
I will keep my mouth shut
spiral anvil
SMH2
spiral anvil
Yes
calm salmon
F
gleaming hawk
Shin Megami Heroes 2: Darktide Rising
spiral anvil
Does Titus ever take off his boots and show his feets
calm salmon
solar gorge
he does in the second cutscene
spare talon
dont mind me
just looking up the wiki page for the game to find out what the main characters name is for that joke
gleaming hawk
Does Titus ever take off his boots and show his feets
nice try wikifeet informant
solar gorge
and there's stinklines and everything
calm salmon
dont mind me
just looking up the wiki page for the game to find out what the mai...
fucking lightmode users
gleaming hawk
rip role colors
calm salmon
the perfect way to use discord
gleaming hawk
also, pfps 🤮
pfps are the only way I identify people
calm salmon
the perfect way to use discord
no disgusting anime pfps
gleaming hawk
imagine reading names
spare talon
no disgusting anime pfps
while thats true
calm salmon
Don't worry, I get bullied a bunch by zealot chat because Stan doesn't have working fingers
spare talon
i can just look at the general shape of the pfp and know whos talking
calm salmon
Everyone always renames themselves every time he fucks someone's name up
solar gorge
no disgusting anime pfps
Where's your pfp from again ?
calm salmon
so I'm constantly confused
spare talon
OPM
solar gorge
yeah ik
nimble fiber
Everyone always renames themselves every time he fucks someone's name up
dont summon the demon
spare talon
puri puri prisoner iirc
drowsy steppe
so I'm *constantly* confused
this is your own fault
drowsy steppe
you have the TOOLS to make your life easier
frosty herald
ITS FROM ONE PUNCH MAN!!!
drowsy steppe
yet you chose to shoot yourself in the foot
calm salmon
you have the TOOLS to make your life easier
compact mode best mode
gleaming hawk
Zealot should have a weapon that is literally just a bible Zealot smashes people with
spare talon
ITS FROM ONE PUNCH MAN!!!
ONE OUNCE MAN
drowsy steppe
ounce
calm salmon
yet you chose to shoot yourself in the foot
||It's the only way I can feel anything but sadness||
solar gorge
I prefer one kilogram man
gleaming hawk
||It's the only way I can feel anything but sadness||
And how did you feel about that decision?
drowsy steppe
self destructive habits be like:
calm salmon
real and true
spare talon
||It's the only way I can feel anything but sadness||
Have you tried garlic bread though? That might work
calm salmon
no, but I did try drinking and it turned out that worked too well
nimble fiber
garlic baguette is good af
gleaming hawk
try eating raw onion
solar gorge
It's so hot here i can't play any demanding game i'm gonna die of boredom
calm salmon
It's so hot here i can't play any demanding game i'm gonna die of boredom
haha funny yurop doesn't know what AC is
solar gorge
why all good game have to turn my pc into a radiator
spare talon
why all good game have to turn my pc into a radiator
Erm terraria
gleaming hawk
Learn to like more optimized games?
solar gorge
Learn to like more optimized games?
all optimized game suck
spare talon
Erm... shit your pants
solar gorge
fallout bad
calm salmon
I'd rather not
solar gorge
i will not reiterate
gleaming hawk
all optimized game suck
Factorio you friggy
spare talon
fallout bad
True
solar gorge
already done factorio, satisfactory and terraria for that matter
spare talon
Fallout boring
Skyrim not boring
calm salmon
project zomboid, xenonauts, rain world, master chief collection
solar gorge
skyrim bad and boring but medieval fantasy
spare talon
already done factorio, satisfactory and terraria for that matter
Ok but
What if
Terraria
Again
drowsy steppe
skyrim is 10/10 for sure, the reviewers said so
drowsy steppe
(I actually hate how shallow Skyrim is)
calm salmon
Skyrim was cool for one playthrough
but only for one
I don't know how people have 12,000 hours in that game
gleaming hawk
I like Skyrim because of the mods.
drowsy steppe
I still cant believe I sunk 1K hours into it
solar gorge
I don't know how people have 12,000 hours in that game
coomers with porn mods
spare talon
I don't know how people have 12,000 hours in that game
Sex mods
nimble fiber
stop playing the game
drowsy steppe
if I ever treturn to Skyrim Im downloading that one mod pack someone told me
I am not manually modding the game again
gleaming hawk
Lmao, I tried the modpacks for a bit and was like 'well I can do it better'
gleaming hawk
Pong?
zealous basin
zealous basin
bro they fixed that
zealous basin
they saved tf2
solar gorge
he doesn't know
gleaming hawk
I don't play tf2
zealous basin
not knower lmaooo
gleaming hawk
imagine playing PvP games
zealous basin
gleaming hawk
<:erm:1102270395765248232>
zealous basin
frosty herald
zealous basin
okay im going back to bed goodbye weird little people that live in my phone
gleaming hawk
frosty herald
Your gonna win a gazillion dollars
nimble fiber
how can u be so spot on without knowing
literally only get the money drop instead of the thing I actually want
nimble fiber
https://tenor.com/view/pulp-fiction-samuel-l-jackson-you-got-it-right-on-you-got-it-dude-gif-3501529
u might be on to something
spare talon
@nimble fiber
frosty herald
Hxh and naruto poster smh
spare talon
Hxh and naruto poster smh
Hey, hxh is good
nimble fiber
me fr
spare talon
Naruto not so much tho
nimble fiber
aight lets grind again
spare talon
Lepic on his way to obliterate a hardmode boss in under 1 minute with an unoptimized build and not even max level
Tho with me swapping reactors for one with secret garden
I've dropped that time to 30 seconds
nimble fiber
uuh I have a enzo part I forgot about
spare talon
I'm so glad I target farmed Enzo first
nimble fiber
def need to get that boy at some point
nimble fiber
ye people told me I def need to farm him because of the amount of ultra precision code breakers I have
have 19 currently
spare talon
It'll def help in the long run
spare talon
More bang for your buck and impossible to accidentally waste one