zealot-class

[cunning knoll]

I just walk up to the shooters and slap em

Especially with knife

[spare talon]

And he was talking about being suppressed while trying to shoot it

[south folio]

oh i see

[royal vortex]

im havin a stan moment

[spare talon]

Bolt pistol being suppressed is like being water boarded

[hushed agate]

Just noticed he's deadass named lacerate knife there is now way he isnt trolling😭

[royal vortex]

bolt pistol handling is aids

[south folio]

you said something stupid that only made sense if i thought you were saying it in the context of the +50% toughness tdr talent

motherfucker go into the psykhanium

[tidal berry]

it also has ads alignment problems like the regular boltgun

[south folio]

go take immo nadees

go grab an uncanny strike knife

and test it out for yourself

[vestal pine]

i did

[south folio]

and consider the fact that you are an insanely unreliable witness

[cunning knoll]

can you trigger dodges in psykhanium?

[south folio]

josho record the video for me

do it you hoe

[south folio]

with mods yeah

[spare talon]

Uncanny
Changed from repeated to chained hit
Values remain
Thoughts

[coarse birch]

i think that much rending is kinda goofy still

[south folio]

make it only buff weakspot hits

[coarse birch]

assuming all the the interactions remain

[tidal berry]

I just don't like rending being a thing in general

[south folio]

yeah rending is p silly

[tidal berry]

I feel like weapons should have very clear strength/weakness when it comes to armor pen

[south folio]

the numbers that uncanny had are the same as pre-buff rending

[coarse birch]

but yeah rending is general is a bit cringe

[spare talon]

I mean
Chained means you have to keep hitting the head
And if you miss, whiff or body, all stacks gone

[coarse birch]

ADMs are cool

[south folio]

back from when it was multiplicative to now that it's additive

[south folio]

related but it'll still get buffed on the non-weakspot hit

[spare talon]

If uncanny gets hit, God please buff armor damage across the board

[vestal pine]

they wont

[south folio]

the armour damage of the majority of zealot melees is fine or good into cara

[subtle cedar]

ngl i can't help that feel that removing crit cdr made all the zealot keystones kinda samey

[coarse birch]

yeah we have armor damage

we dont need to 2 shot crushers

[ember yew]

@south folioi have martyrdom build without any TDR aside from aura(cant skip), so far so good, either way most of the time you die from frikkin 3-dimensional net or random mutant grab into fire (fck this)

[crisp furnace]

Someone gets it

[ember yew]

[vestal pine]

we dont need to 10shot crushers when 10 of them comes out every wave

[south folio]

they're all inherently pretty samey cuz they're boring buffs that are basically passive

you don't need to do anything particularly extra to proc them

[vestal pine]

nerf crusher furball rates then i'd be fine

[coarse birch]

ideally we dont get 10 at a time ye but also like

[crisp furnace]

Go play malice

[calm salmon]

Hello zealot chat

[coarse birch]

they arent crazy hard to fight

and we dont 10 shot them

[vestal pine]

go do a wackamole with them 100 times

[hushed agate]

Leave while you still can

[royal vortex]

https://streamable.com/lvd90q

[hushed agate]

[calm salmon]

What are we arguing about today?

[south folio]

yeah and this is why i want crusher numbers to be nerfed

mf

i'd prefer crusher numbers being nerfed rather than player damage going up again

[royal vortex]

as u can see i think rending might be somewhat changing the damage dealt by immo nades

[calm salmon]

ew knife

[royal vortex]

but i dunno... kinda ambiguous

[south folio]

because you know why elite numbers got increased?

[cunning knoll]

"zealot nerfs might as well delete the class"

[south folio]

it's because it was to compensate against player damage being higher

[tidal berry]

zealot has fallen, billions must goon

[south folio]

and to get the numbers back down, we have to do the reverse

[vestal pine]

it isnt nerfed right now, so dont talk about rending nerfs before crusher nerfs are discussed

[calm salmon]

What got nerfed

[south folio]

wha

[coarse birch]

what

[crisp furnace]

elite numbers haven't increased

[spare talon]

It was either
Ability spam
Old zealot
"Idc give me flat buffs"

Before

Now it's
"Idc give me flat buffs" (crit/finesse weapon edition)
Old zealot
"Idc give me flat buffs"

[calm salmon]

I know Crit CDR got nerfed

But like

[ember yew]

Zealot nerfs, but it is what it is, let's move on

[vestal pine]

because next thing i know they nerfing rending without changing anything to armor values

[coarse birch]

armor values are fine huh

[south folio]

the crusher number nerf and the armor damage buff you want are two sidees of the same coin

[crisp furnace]

rending should be nerfed

[royal vortex]

nerfing rending on zealot would make 1 weapon worse into armor and then you'd just go crit and still be good into it

[south folio]

how are you going to deny my point while promoting yours

[royal vortex]

you don't need uncanny on knife to deal good damage to carapace

[south folio]

like, why would you want to keep the elite spam that we have

[calm salmon]

I wish I still had my clips of Ogryn rending.

You can kill 7 crushers with one activation of Point Blank Barrage with an achyls due to rending

[south folio]

just make enemies more of an individual threat and reduce their numbers

[vestal pine]

i aint denying your point, you sa stuff like fatshark will bring them all in within 1 sitting

which they never do

[spare talon]

I've done away with it and still mulch them

[ember yew]

facts, riposte mercy killer is my new toy on mk6

[calm salmon]

Rending needs to be nerfed into the ground.

[south folio]

no?

i've repeatedly said that they won't ever do things in 1 patch

are you high

[vestal pine]

i want them to do this

[calm salmon]

this is probably 5 now due to the crusher HP changes but the point remains.

[crisp furnace]

based

[tidal berry]

more like replaced outright honestly

[south folio]

you refuse to every engage me in good faith

[obsidian quail]

?

[calm salmon]

I only come correct.

[subtle cedar]

ngl these days i feel really bad taking a melee that can't do either good damage to crushers with lightspam or can control a bunch of them with stuff like crusher (the weapon) specials

[south folio]

like you are just interpreting what i say in the worst possible aspect and then arguing against that

[vestal pine]

i dont want the game to be unplayable for 5 months cause some idiot decided that nerfing rending and not dealing about crusher spawnrates was fine

[south folio]

also are you going to watch josho's streamable clip

[calm salmon]

Long Live Indignatus Crusher

[vestal pine]

which is how most fatshark interactions go

[ember yew]

The damage from knife blessing uncanny strike affects fire grenade damage

[crisp furnace]

unplayable because you are shit?

[south folio]

game is pretty playable on zealot

(i've been playing zealot the entire day)

[obsidian quail]

cool

thx

[crisp furnace]

i run grey knives for 3vegs for fun

[vestal pine]

unplayable cause you get assaulted every minuite that requires a minuite to deal with

[subtle cedar]

i'm mostly just playing tac axe and chainaxe now :L

[crisp furnace]

it is not hard

[coarse birch]

games unplayable guys, i need to put an ounce of effort into winning

[calm salmon]

I'm gonna be honest my guy:

Both chainswords, both eviscerators, both chainaxes, and Crusher all deal with Crushers and make no sacrifices in horde control or killing power.

And that's without touching the combat axes.

Quit fucking malding and just get good at the game.

[latent vortex]

shit even knife crits are good vs crushers

[crisp furnace]

lacerate tho

[tidal berry]

I'm sorry to be the captain obvious but darktide is not a hard game lmao

[south folio]

(the 3 minute loss is because i was on a gray build doing testing)

unplayable game as zealot

[crisp furnace]

Darktide is easy

[vestal pine]

chain weapons get scuffed on crusher furballs

caxes and crushers do fine yes

[royal vortex]

impossible.

[calm salmon]

You can dodge out of chain animations and have stun grenades.

Like this shit isn't hard.

[vestal pine]

murder 3 with the stun nades and then do the dashdance for 30 seconds, great solution

[storm pagoda]

that a 4 stack u can literally run around woth no talents and win

[calm salmon]

Don't even need to if you use the Rashad or Antax.

[vestal pine]

yes

[calm salmon]

You can just sit there and dance around them and kill em in like

I dunno

[vestal pine]

which is why they are busted

[calm salmon]

5 hits

No they're busted because they get brutal momentum

not because they're good at killing crushers

[vestal pine]

5 or 6, 4 if you have carapace

[calm salmon]

In any case, you're taking a stance that would lead people to believe that there's no solution to crusher packs when that's just not true.

Gasp You need to change your kit and movement mechanics to address different enemies

How DARE Fatshark make you try at the game.

[subtle cedar]

i mean, there are obviously solutions, but i wouldn't say they feel good to use...

outside of a few

[tidal berry]

how so

[south folio]

point is that i'm doing comparable damage

[calm salmon]

I don't know what doesn't feel good about blenderizing a whole room with any of these weapons

[crisp furnace]

He is so fucked when they fix spawns

[vestal pine]

no solution to crusher packs that comes out every minuite, yes
because outside of crusher/caxe/tacaxe and other single hit damage dealers that can deal with carapace, they are slow
and doing that every single minuite a furball is spotted is not a fun experience to endeavour, especially if it happens every minuite

[gleaming hawk]

When? Bold.

[tidal berry]

every minute is a bit of an exaggeration no?

[vestal pine]

it would be fine if crusher spawns were nerfed all across to be lower than current

[tidal berry]

I need to play scab only mostly melee to see that kind of crusher density

[vestal pine]

fair point

[subtle cedar]

chsword/evis/newer chaxe kinda need latch and that doesn't feel good when there's a bunch of other things that can hit you

[south folio]

knife, saul as well

[tidal berry]

Personally I fear having like 6 bulwarks spawn in a corridor a lot more than crusher packs

[calm salmon]

Don't play solo?

[vestal pine]

currently its within every wave that theres some kind of furball
im fine with 4 crushers jumpscaring me every wave, im not fine with 8 of them jump me every wave cause it drastically slows down the anti-crusher process

[vestal pine]

you are right my bad

[crisp furnace]

when they fix event spawns on every map and specialist waves

[subtle cedar]

Caxe doesn't feel great doing slow single target hits either

[vestal pine]

eh they still hit hard

[vestal pine]

do i play with idiots who wake up DH, immeditely alf-f4s and sends the DH to my rectinum?

[subtle cedar]

they hit hard but on one thing, typically a crusher, and are unlikely to stop w/e small things are currently phasing through the crusher to slap you

[vestal pine]

what, this game only meant to be played with actually trustable friends?

[latent vortex]

weapon doesn't clear everything in front of me

zealot useless

[calm salmon]

Something like that

[vestal pine]

bad take then

[calm salmon]

I just don't get the point you're making Lacerate.

There's more Crushers. Okay?

[gleaming hawk]

Hey, yo, ew

[subtle cedar]

obv i'm not expecting that, i'm just saying the weapons that can lightspam or AoE control to deal with crushers feel a LOT better than the ones who can't now that you're kinda forced to deal with crushers in melee

[calm salmon]

Every class has tools to deal with that.

Plasma Gun, funny rending infantry lasgun
Everything I listed for zealot above
Trauma and Void Staff, Dueling Sword, Deimos
Literally anything on Ogryn

Even a fucking bull butcher mk3 can deal with a crusher eventually

[vestal pine]

eventually

really?

[latent vortex]

I'm just taking the piss at this point. And tbh if you have enough attack speed the weapons feel fine, even if you gotta heavy the crushers

[vestal pine]

really you gonna try to stab 10 crushers for 2 minuites to kill them?

[calm salmon]

eh you just sit there and abuse heavy 1 looping on the BB mk3 to do ~230 damage a hit

[vestal pine]

jesus

[calm salmon]

Ideally you'd have a ripper with can opener on hand though

or grenadier gauntlet

[vestal pine]

yes

[tidal berry]

treat it like you treat d.claw and no issues

[frosty herald]

My 50% rending gorgonum

[cunning knoll]

yes

[gleaming hawk]

tbf, ogryns can just stunlock crushers with so many melee weapons

[cunning knoll]

preferably there's the expectation of my team helping tho

[calm salmon]

That's why i said "literally anything on ogryn"

It just. . . doesn't matter what he's using.

He's got an answer for Crusher somewhere in that kit

[subtle cedar]

i think the point is that zealots best answers for actually killing crushers are kinda the worst of the 4 classes, even if we technically have a large number of them.

[calm salmon]

That's fine.

[vestal pine]

insane but ill take your word

[calm salmon]

Shunt them off to your teammates.

Almost like its a team-game

or something

[vestal pine]

almost like every single one of them wakes a DH and then leaves the game

[tidal berry]

not... really? You're the best equipped for taking them in melee

[vestal pine]

sending the DH to one of the leftovers

[calm salmon]

Now you're arguing in bad faith.

[vestal pine]

argueing in bad faith?

[calm salmon]

Like I said.

Quit malding and come back with a fresh mind after some sleep.

[vestal pine]

i see that shit every like 5 playthrough

[cunning knoll]

i have not had a man wake DH and leave in my memory

[subtle cedar]

but that's the point no? killing them before they reach melee is so much better than doing it after

[vestal pine]

thank god you dont

because i have seen it being done way too many times

[calm salmon]

I've had generally bad teammates, and that's normal. But even a bad teammate is still drawing aggro away from me which is great.

[tidal berry]

I mean, this is going to sound wrong but if you're looking to avoid melee with tough enemies you've picked the wrong class

[subtle cedar]

and it's not like we deal with them quickly and easily in melee either

i don't

[vestal pine]

still drawing aggro

really

he can shoot a barrel next to you and fling you off the map

if he's actually pulling aggro, thats a good teammate

not bad

[calm salmon]

yeah it turns out that dealing with 25% less of a horde is a great way to stay alive because its less stressful

[vestal pine]

yeah it turns out people try to murder me if i stand next to ledges and barrels

[crisp furnace]

he cant

[subtle cedar]

i don't, but if you tell me you didn't use old fury to gun down a crusher with an autogun last patch you're lying

[south folio]

mf i'm using a premade scoreboard so that i have players of equal skill as comparison

do you want me to use a pub scoreboard

and have me brag about how i'm shitting over random players

[ember yew]

pug scoreboard

[tidal berry]

I did because it was busted

[subtle cedar]

but the point is i take melees that facilitate me being able to deal with crushers in melee because i'm the class that's best equipped to do that, but that feels very limiting

[vestal pine]

i dont care if you or me shitting over random players
i care if they actively throw the game with dumb decisionmaking that wasnt even in my choice board

[subtle cedar]

because with a lot of weapons it's really hard to both kill crushers in a timely manner and avoid taking chip

[calm salmon]

Quit playing team games.

[tidal berry]

I'm a vet main and take them on melee

[calm salmon]

Clearly you're unable to deal with it.

[vestal pine]

clearly you havent been jumpscared by a DH that you wernt even near

[ember yew]

I like fire grenades in maelstrom due to that, they clear space from trash so i can focus on elites only

[subtle cedar]

i mean that statement is meaningless without more context because power swords exist lol

[calm salmon]

Didn't fatshark make the DH fuck off after it kills one person

[vestal pine]

was like "oh wait some idiot woke up DH" and then for some fucking reason it goes for me

[ember yew]

best change ever made

[vestal pine]

and then i see the player count and see that he immediately DC'd after waking up the DH

[cunning knoll]

it does
it might go for 2 on diff 5 but i don't remember if i hallucinated it

[vestal pine]

which doesnt despawn the DH

and instead maeks it go after someone else

[ember yew]

Wont it go after the bot?

[vestal pine]

no

[tidal berry]

I can't think of a melee on vet rn that sucks at carapace outside of d.claws

[vestal pine]

goes after players

because fuck fatshark

[ornate bone]

One of my problems with someone else dealing with crushers because I don't have the weapons for it is

[subtle cedar]

sure, just saying the powersword was like, the best weapon at fighting multiple crushers for a long time

[ornate bone]

What if the other three players thought the same?

[tidal berry]

Also all human classes have ways to stun crushers

you don't have to sit there and let them bonk you

[vestal pine]

wack them for 2 minuites, least thats what the chat is telling me

[tidal berry]

it takes 1 shout and then 4 players will eat a crusher pack in mere seconds

[cunning knoll]

i whack them 5 times at most with my knife

or shroudfield and oneshot

[vestal pine]

shroudfield catachan sword wont come close to 6shotting it p sure

[cunning knoll]

you call yourself lacerate knife and use a sword?

[vestal pine]

i have 12 builds

[subtle cedar]

who the f said anything about shroudfield catachan sword?

[cunning knoll]

alternatively use my revolver then xd

[vestal pine]

new rending fotf with parry might be abole to 2shot

[latent vortex]

still very good at it

it's crazy how good it is lmao

[ornate bone]

I have a loose cannon girlfriend, but you wouldn't know her

She goes to another Mourningstar

[latent vortex]

she goes to a different school

[subtle cedar]

tho ngl, happy that the mk7 tac axe got fixed

[vestal pine]

ye

its good

[ornate bone]

Wait, taxe good?

Or just not bad?

[vestal pine]

always good but the tac7

[subtle cedar]

eeeeh

[vestal pine]

had a light 2 that had - ranges

[subtle cedar]

i wouldn't say "always" good

[vestal pine]

now its fixed

[vestal pine]

ok at least its good for the past few patches

[subtle cedar]

i wouldn't even say that lol

[ornate bone]

I want taxe to be a knife with BM

[vestal pine]

tacaxe 7 had the light 2 issue but the PA heavy did lot of the work

[south folio]

that's just pub matchmaking tho

not some fatshark thing

[subtle cedar]

Taxe 2 and 7 are both very functional weapons in martyr builds

able to do crit DR stuff

[ornate bone]

Speaking of

[subtle cedar]

2 does heavy spam, 7 does lightspam and heavies

[ornate bone]

I'm actually scared of them wanting to add attack speed to psyker

[subtle cedar]

taxe7 lightspam is hella dps

[vestal pine]

4 exists as a lightspam hordeclear i think

[ornate bone]

It's just going back to swift slaying bullshit under a different name

[subtle cedar]

except it sucks cos you're not getting BM triggering more than once on a swing (often not triggering)

[ornate bone]

And also crutches on the autoattack mod to carry lightspam weapons

[vestal pine]

i didnt fair much yeah but least it can consistently murder fodders

[subtle cedar]

7 is simply better for lightspam

[vestal pine]

do you really wanna spamclick mk4 lasgun

[vestal pine]

it wasnt cause light 2 kek

[subtle cedar]

yeah

that was the issue

but now is fixed

[vestal pine]

its great now

headtaker BM can reliably cleave and BM through fodders

[subtle cedar]

and you got the dps to lightspam down crushers and stuff

[vestal pine]

and tacaxes are one of the few weapons that survived the scourges of the crit cdr nerf

[vestal pine]

im not trusting a good samaritan when half the pub players take the big ammo when they ran out of 1 ammo

[subtle cedar]

also it has surprisingly nice stagger traits

[vestal pine]

trust is vital to a coop game, but there should be some remedies when needed

the special attack can stop muties so its good

[subtle cedar]

you can knock back sploders when on 0 stamina with the weapon special, or use weapon special into heavies to stunlock ragers

and that yeah

[vestal pine]

im still mad about how people can still troll you with DH

it only murders one people but said person can just disconect and the DH goes for other players

[cunning knoll]

what matchmaking region are you from?

[vestal pine]

SEA

[subtle cedar]

oh

[cunning knoll]

rip

[subtle cedar]

okay that makes sense now

LOL

[vestal pine]

smh

[subtle cedar]

yeah there's no such thing as a "team game" when you're playing on SEA servers

[south folio]

yeah so?

just be good enough and run a good build

it's not like you have to be that good

just run something brain off and only requires dodge spamming

[vestal pine]

and then a pubber near you shoots the poxburster next to you

[south folio]

it's not like the top difficulty requires some wild mechanical inputs

[subtle cedar]

tbh the crux of the point is that now there's a lot less brain off now that you can't deal with crushers with fury of the faithful and an autogun

[latent vortex]

it IS fun to play that way though 😄

[vestal pine]

ranged rending getting the boot least is justified yea

[subtle cedar]

justified? sure

[latent vortex]

the microefficient stuff you can do makes it fun

[vestal pine]

but melee also got scuffed during the change

which i dont like

[subtle cedar]

i wouldn't say melee "got scuffed"

melee was always kinda this scuffed

[vestal pine]

well rashad no longer 2shots on heavy with 1 fotf charge

requires 2 fotf now

for starters

[subtle cedar]

wait, i didn't remember seeing any melee changes for fotf

[vestal pine]

because it was changed to rending

[latent vortex]

it's melee rending now

[subtle cedar]

oh

mmm

[vestal pine]

looks like most weapons had a

higher flak damage usually?

unbelievably higher flak damage

so weapons also got the boot for melee

[ornate bone]

That's the thing, I don't think I should have a weapon that asks me to

[vestal pine]

couldnt they just make it burstfire like idk vraks 3

shrug

[ornate bone]

Knife is my favourite melee, but the light attack spam without mods is just fucking criminal

[north sedge]

🤔

[ornate bone]

I can't imagine playing knife on console

[vestal pine]

tacaxe is worse cause light is optimal half the elite encounters lol

[hushed agate]

Why?

You pc players have weak fingers?

[latent vortex]

unless you have momentum + the 10% attack speed + fotf you can set a pretty solid rhythm taht won't eat your hand

[south folio]

weapons having cranked up flak crit adms is also pretty scuffed

[tidal berry]

I use the heavy knife a lot, its not that bad

[vestal pine]

fair point, they should nerf that globally

[south folio]

is it not already good enough that you are doing ~100% damage

and fotf duellist SA caxe is still ~2.8k damage on cara

[subtle cedar]

man

the heavy sword seems awful now

[vestal pine]

before you can dualist oneshot with caxe p sure

[latent vortex]

sa? special attack?

[south folio]

sustained assault

[latent vortex]

a

ty

[hushed agate]

Why?

[vestal pine]

i just gave up fixing my rashad build

[coarse birch]

hsword is still very much a top tier melee weapon

[vestal pine]

switched to stelf cause that actualyl does damage

[subtle cedar]

having a melee which doesn't deal well vs maulers or crushers seems really awkward

[south folio]

wha

yeah stealth is going to do more initial damage

[ornate bone]

what

[south folio]

but dash + built-in 50% toughness regen + 25% atk speed for 10 seconds

like come on
the attack speed

[vestal pine]

not really when every wave has a crusher miniwave within
its a great weapon dont get me wrong but its not on the top for me

[vestal pine]

marty.

[south folio]

what?

[vestal pine]

sorry i run marty

[south folio]

we're comparing ults aren't we

not ults between keystones

[latent vortex]

yee. Stealth is very good for that massive burst but the dps is a bit low overall, though that doesn't matter if you kill important targets

[vestal pine]

so i gave up and then switched to stelf

which lets me kill primary targets and still have decent attack speed

[south folio]

what does running martyr have to do with the choice between fotf and stealth

[vestal pine]

i just gave up the 20% attack speed now

[south folio]

martyr is in the middle so it's not point efficiency

[vestal pine]

i took marty with fotf either way

[south folio]

alright so what does martyr have to do with the choice...?

my question continues to be ignored

[latent vortex]

So am I wrong that martyrdom is basically a safer but less damaging momentum?

[south folio]

the opposite

martyr is the wounds one

momentum is the right-side one

[vestal pine]

the new fotf cannot 2shot crushers reliably at all now so i switched to stelf

[latent vortex]

yeah, I'm saying momentum gives that 15% damage buff and martyr gets damage reduction

[vestal pine]

not much else

[south folio]

the attack speed is still gon help with DPS

[latent vortex]

unless im wildly wrong

[south folio]

ah, though the caveat is that you'll have to be on low hp (though until death exists)

[subtle cedar]

martyr gets a like 40% melee damage buff...

and 20% attack speed

[south folio]

damage reduction is tdr only, and it basically serves to make up for the fact that you're taking wounds curios instead of toughness curios

so the tdr talent is just playing catchup

[latent vortex]

aah

[vestal pine]

i know, still taking fotf on tacaxes mostly cause i still run piety on the thing

[south folio]

piety with caxes 😎

[vestal pine]

i dont use the tdr subnode i think

[latent vortex]

OH the actual keystone gives damage

oops

[subtle cedar]

these days i'm running martyr tac axe with backstab cdr and relic lol

[vestal pine]

neat little attack speed subnode as well

wonder if they'll nerf the backstab cdr and do nothing about vet next patch

[south folio]

ragebaiting yourself on the future once again

[latent vortex]

I have a feeling the backstab cdr is fine

[south folio]

you complain about me talking about theoreticals

and then ragebait yourself on theoreticals

the ever consistent character

[vestal pine]

yes

[latent vortex]

it's difficult to consistently get and rewards good positioning and smart movement

[south folio]

certainly not a priority thing at least

since it's basically never talked about

[vestal pine]

fun with theorizing
i dont take that as a valid "it'll happen" because its all theorey
you take it as a given fact, that it will be nerfed

[south folio]

except that i have a pretty good reason to think it'll be nerfed

since it's a pattern that silly stuff has been getting nerfed

fatshark even explains their reasoning nowadays

[vestal pine]

it had a good reason to be nerfed for 6 months

was it nerfed?

no zealot got the boot

because why not

ogryns also got some boots

i know entire vet and psyker broken talents have a valid reason to be nerfed to oblivion

problem is, that didnt born today

it was here for a long while

[south folio]

psyker did have some stuff nerfed previously though

like yeah that stuff still exist

but zealot also has stuff that deserves to be nerfed to the ground currently

[vestal pine]

yes

i agree with the notion

[south folio]

like, you keep on thinking that fatshark has some high anti-zealot bias for some reason

[latent vortex]

which

[gleaming hawk]

nerfed, yes. To the ground? Mmmmm, I can't think of anything that far.

[latent vortex]

I'm just genuinely curious

[south folio]

+50% toughness dr, the attack speed of fotf should be split into a talent, second wind should not be what it is,

[latent vortex]

yeah okay that sounds about right

[south folio]

all keystones need some more interesting conditions attached

[latent vortex]

I agree with this

[gleaming hawk]

None of those are 'to the ground', lol, but sure

[south folio]

we have vets complaining about marksman focus

[south folio]

yeah i'm being hyperbolic but so is lacerate

mf

sorry that i'm not a precise speaker

[latent vortex]

Keystone should 100% have to have a special condition to activate

[coarse birch]

also tknife reduction in total count and duellist could probably be changed a bit

[south folio]

and therefore we should bring this energy to zealot chat

[latent vortex]

Martyrdom is a bit unique though imo

[south folio]

vets, the ranged class, has players malding about having to hit heads

[latent vortex]

The special condition is low hp

[south folio]

so let's figure out something for zealot

[ornate bone]

Turn sainted gunslinger into a keystone that reloads the gun when you swap to it and also gives it guaranteed crit chance and fire rate

And uhhh also make it into a melee version

[vestal pine]

piety really shouldnt be self-sustaining

im fine with momentum

[latent vortex]

momentum is nice

[south folio]

momentum is still pretty boring

[latent vortex]

I think having a boring keystone is fine

[ornate bone]

Piety is wacky

[latent vortex]

if it's only 1

[south folio]

just ends up being dodge and get stacks in combat, and run around during downtime for stacks

[vestal pine]

piety is just wack

[ornate bone]

piety is fine now that crit cdr got obliterated

Back in VT2 it was dog shit because you had no control over it

[south folio]

momentum should have more interaction with stuff like stamina and whatnot
do a bit more and involve a bit more

[gleaming hawk]

Lol, no worries, I just thought you had a spicier take

[ornate bone]

Now it's just a flat crit boost because you don't need to control it

[south folio]

o ok

[vestal pine]

the momentum actually having dodge as a subnode makes it least acceptable in my eyes

piety is just whail around for 5 hours

[south folio]

piety on itself is fine but it also enables scourge on otherwise non-crit weapons, and duellist is one of the talents of all time

[latent vortex]

I wish I could reasonably take piety on my stealth build but

i chose more damage instead

[south folio]

since it's +50% weakspot damage, +50% crit damage, and then +100% crit weakspot damage

[vestal pine]

is it 100%

[south folio]

so crits can offer disproportionate value because of duellist

ye

[vestal pine]

or is it 1.5 x 1.5

[ornate bone]

Fatshark putting sainted gunslinger behind nodes nobody cares about

[south folio]

additive

[ornate bone]

[vestal pine]

making +125%

ah additive

[south folio]

separate weakspot and crit damage bonuses will add together

[vestal pine]

at the very least they actually think about those

[south folio]

this is distinct from "Finesse Damage", where +50% finesse damage = +50% weakspot dmg, +50% crit dmg, and +50% crit weakspot dmg

[ornate bone]

how about i separate my left nut and my right nut and add them to your face

https://tenor.com/view/cat-lurking-gif-22179921

[vestal pine]

fucking wack

[south folio]

peeking cat gif enthusiast

[coarse birch]

finesse is v cursed

[south folio]

yoshi having been in the adm mines

[frozen glen]

ignorance is bliss my friend

[ornate bone]

Yoshi is like a hardass German caricature character misreading Josho

[frozen glen]

stop looking into fatshark numbers

[vestal pine]

nvm i do take this on my caxe

[south folio]

so piety also is problematic because of talent interactions, besides practically being just a boring passive

[frosty herald]

we need more bloated talent trees like vet :)

[south folio]

even vet's tree is p good besides a lot of nodes being concentrated at the bottom

[coarse birch]

it is too late

[vestal pine]

zealot has node distributuion issues imho

[ornate bone]

vet tree is unironically good

[south folio]

zealot's tree feels pretty good besides the middle middle

[ornate bone]

I have so many tradeoffs that hurt my soul

[south folio]

oh and top-left and top-middle tbf

[coarse birch]

honestly how the numbers are calculated is more cursed than the numbers themselves sometimes

[vestal pine]

idk stun nades tree part requires some touchup

[coarse birch]

zealot middle middle is wack

[vestal pine]

also the middle tree ranged talent is wild

[royal vortex]

top middle branch of zealot is so unimaginably terrible

[gleaming hawk]

yeah I was about to say there's quite a few areas zealot needs some work, lol

[vestal pine]

its a worse version of vet's +5% toughness on any kill lol

[royal vortex]

its one of... two? paths in the game where u can take 0 useful toughness regen options

[south folio]

yeah, just that my overall impression of the zealot tree is pretty positive

more practical permutations that people are gonna take compared to psyker, at least

[royal vortex]

zealot and vet have far more interesting trees than psyker and ogryn do because of how theyre setup

[vestal pine]

tbh the HM regen bit helps a bit

[coarse birch]

although sadly your comparing it to psyker and ogryn trees

which blow

[vestal pine]

i actually put psyker tree above zealot

[south folio]

i absolutely would not

god the psyker tree is awful

[coarse birch]

although even in a vaccum its still fine

yeah psyker tree fucking sucks

[royal vortex]

all i'll say is: psyker is getting a shit ton of new talents

[coarse birch]

well said

[vestal pine]

psyker tree least has more stereotypes
even if said stereotypes are stale as fuck

[royal vortex]

thank you yoshi

[south folio]

psyker's tree lacks talents, and it lacks permutations because of locks

[royal vortex]

this is indicative, i think, of how the tree feels

[vestal pine]

true

[royal vortex]

ogryn and psyker both have way less blue nodes

than vet/zealot

[coarse birch]

pysker tree also has like no talents and 2 builds

total

from the tree itself

[south folio]

p much

[royal vortex]

yeah there's not a lot of real "trades" to make outside of keystone and ult

[gleaming hawk]

I don't know you but I choose to believe you

[vestal pine]

ye

[royal vortex]

it's datamined

[frosty herald]

psyker and ogryn has the worst trees because you have 0 freedom

[royal vortex]

let me go find a message link

[south folio]

there's some neat stuff in the code repo

[coarse birch]

and one of said builds is built around a grand total of 4 staffs

[vestal pine]

i think psyker is more free on what he can take out of the tree than zealot, but it's bad nonetheless

[south folio]

tentative to change but pretty promising

[royal vortex]

#theorycrafting message

[south folio]

i imagine that psyker playtesters have similar feelings as us about the lack of permutations

[royal vortex]

read from here down for a bit

[frosty herald]

i want to be able to go from one side of the tree to the other

[royal vortex]

none of this is confirmed

however

[gleaming hawk]

noice

[royal vortex]

i think it's not unreasonable

[vestal pine]

imho at least they got 3 options lmfao
but yeah its p weak

[coarse birch]

it sounds reasonable ye

[vestal pine]

the new stuff seems quite nice

if they get added

[royal vortex]

zealot has some talent tree deadzones that need a bit of buffing/reworking but i don't feel like it is structurally fucked up

[vestal pine]

i feel like zealot has some solid choices but are just stale atm
psyker is less stale but stale enough and tree does get boring like 2 points off the top

[coarse birch]

zealot tree has some choices to make

[royal vortex]

if you don't like the staves you're fucked for build diversity on psyker

since there's... 4

[vestal pine]

that too

[royal vortex]

and none of them are particularly hard to use

all but surge are basically different flavors of huge aoe damage

[frozen glen]

purgatus is the hardest staff to use imo

[vestal pine]

overreliance on staves to actually generate perils meaningfully well outside of assail

[coarse birch]

psyker even has the issue when you do have talents available its like mind in motion or damgae

hmmm

i wonder what ill take

[frosty herald]

you cannot use stuff like mind in motion and psykenetiks aura together which annoys me greatly

[vestal pine]

tbh i like the concept of blitz restricting what talents you can take

[south folio]

the metaphorical gun known as the cdr aura/venting shriek that forces you to take mind in motion

[vestal pine]

i dont think its well executed in psyker

[royal vortex]

psyker doesn't have enough talents period

[vestal pine]

and its barely well executed in ogryn

[coarse birch]

we need comedically large trees to make this not feel super limiting

[vestal pine]

yeah

[royal vortex]

when you have some that are basically just wasted talent points it really hards

[vestal pine]

maybe actually adding lvl 35

n stuff

[gleaming hawk]

I want a tank psyker

[vestal pine]

idk wom for darktide coming next 2 years or something

[south folio]

just more talents in general

[coarse birch]

yeah not more points

mroe options

[frosty herald]

we do not need another vet tree with 50 talents

[coarse birch]

cause rn i struggle to even spend 30 as psyker

[royal vortex]

vet's tree is mostly good at this point

there's a couple redundant nodes that i dont understand

[vestal pine]

ogryn's seem to be good

[gleaming hawk]

no no, we need another vet tree with 50 talents

[royal vortex]

there's some you could remove that don't even change pathing

[vestal pine]

not great but good

[royal vortex]

ogryn's is boring

the bottom right is terrible

[coarse birch]

the entire right side seems mid

[vestal pine]

i forget the man's filled with whites for some reason

[coarse birch]

other than glugger

[royal vortex]

top right is ok, soften them up is nice

[vestal pine]

and this fucking hellscape

[royal vortex]

warp charges have entirely too many nodes

[coarse birch]

warp charges is

[royal vortex]

also

[coarse birch]

bleh

[gleaming hawk]

Shhh, don't look at it and it can't hurt you

[coarse birch]

EP is more bleh

[royal vortex]

psyker keystones having a single branch

[vestal pine]

god

[royal vortex]

to go down

[coarse birch]

only cause its so fucking boring

[royal vortex]

when every other class's keystones gets 2

[coarse birch]

EP makes me mad

[royal vortex]

is just lmao

like u ran out of time for it

[vestal pine]

whoever designed EP must have been bored enough to make even more boring talent than piety

[royal vortex]

EP makes brainburst not feel like total dogshit and then it just completely warps the other 2 blitzes

[coarse birch]

its not even hard to come up with something even remotely mroe interesting than more damgae

[vestal pine]

tbh i think it fits the psyker
man already has unique blitz subnodes

[gleaming hawk]

I say we take EP's buff for brain burst and just move it into brain burst or something, lol

[vestal pine]

but i agree that the tree is a massive bloat

EP BB should be base lmfao

it still charges too slow

[royal vortex]

the problem with empowered psionics is that it's completely uninteresting

[vestal pine]

some cracked plasma vet can kill stuff you point as laserpointer

[royal vortex]

it's not like transformative

[south folio]

charge speed is whatevs
the initial charge time it has and the outcome of it should be more interesting

[royal vortex]

your blitz is just stronger

[vestal pine]

tbh

quite funny that all the psyker keystones are about managing stacks

[royal vortex]

i despise every suggestion to make it one shot enemies and it just charges longer

because you're basically making it a worse version of any TTK automatic gun

[gleaming hawk]

I like the idea of the auto-BB talent but... maybe it should ignore trash and poxbursters

[vestal pine]

i think the old DD was more interesting, fight me

[frosty herald]

i adore this idea

[royal vortex]

the DD change is kind of whatever

[south folio]

yeah new DD is just a passive bonus
though old DD also dropped pretty hard

[frosty herald]

like a thundercloud over the battlefield

[south folio]

should decayed by half stacks at least

[vestal pine]

new DD is way more fucking insane imho

[royal vortex]

they shouldve made it so DD halves when u "dropped" stacks

[vestal pine]

old DD you actually had risks

even if the higher stacks one never got off

probably the higher stacks needed to have additional target selection idk

[gleaming hawk]

and also maybe a lower cooldown :P

[vestal pine]

new one is boring
least you get to shoot at smurfs

[frosty herald]

brainburst chargetime just sucks ass

[vestal pine]

even after being buffed its ass

[coarse birch]

BB is fine damage wise with EP but the charge blows

even the normal damage isnt super awful if its wasnt such low DPS

[final forge]

they just have a bb talent that makes it spew lighthing/or fire to x amount of enemies that can stun/stagger for a moment idk jumped into this convo late

[gleaming hawk]

Don't worry, I'm sure Fatshark would never overcorrect and make Psyker completely broken and replace the VoC Vet they nerf in the same patch.

stares at camera

[frosty herald]

brainburst alr has a soulflame node on specialist/elite hit

[south folio]

not anymore

that got transformed into perilous combustion

[vestal pine]

thats a global node

[frosty herald]

https://tenor.com/view/pinocchio-nose-growing-lies-fake-news-liar-gif-9840222201307474093

[final forge]

also havnt played psyker in an age :S

[vestal pine]

and PC should just get reworked really

[south folio]

delete PC

elite/special scaling AoE node

[vestal pine]

like if you nerf it to be 6 stacks

psykers gonna mald about omg unusable

[south folio]

6 stacks PC

[vestal pine]

everything seems to be 6 stacks so why not kek

[final forge]

maybe like a flurry, aoe 5m lighitngin vortex with like a 5% change to spawn an elite cus warp shenanigans

idk just talking out my butt atm

[frosty herald]

why nerf the stacks when soulblaze just isnt good

[south folio]

soulblaze itself is mediocre

the problem is

a lot of its application methods spread that shit in a huge ass AoE

[gleaming hawk]

Someone hasn't been introduced to our lord and savior venting shriek

[vestal pine]

itself is mediocre but psyker can just dump out anywhere anytime

as long as you build it right

[frosty herald]

only use sciers gaze because funny

[vestal pine]

the new electric nodes least seem to be neat

also

[gleaming hawk]

I want full palpatine psyker

[vestal pine]

gunpsyker is

wierd

like gaze still only benefits gun the most

[gleaming hawk]

Surge/smite/shock maul/electric nodes

[frosty herald]

i do like the random brainbursts happening in combat as an idea

[vestal pine]

should be better than rng bullshit we already have

[south folio]

just a consequence of how it be cuz no finesse staff and the conflict of interest because of peril gen

[south folio]

but it'll is some passive thing

which is boring

[vestal pine]

only finesse staff is... surge i think? idk

[frosty herald]

does like 75% damage of base brainbursts but synergizes with talents that buff it

[gleaming hawk]

Silence knave, different playstyles should be given room

[frosty herald]

sometimes some things dont need to be exciting

[south folio]

surge has pretty meh finesse multis

[vestal pine]

it does? huh

that sucks

[south folio]

it doesn't need to be exciting

but it doesn't have to be boring

[gleaming hawk]

It's not, it's gambling

[vestal pine]

gamblecore

[south folio]

like, how is flayer interesting besides funny random brainburst on enemy

just replace it with something neater

[vestal pine]

its not, but think of something like melee parry activates a brainburst on a target that has enough HP

[gleaming hawk]

I mean in its current form sure, but that's why I was saying make it do BB only on certain targets (AKA not trash/bursters)

[south folio]

the numbers for reference

[vestal pine]

i think as much as lightning reflexes be overpowered

[south folio]

still going to be a passive "hurt some elite/special"

[vestal pine]

its a really really intresting blessing

[final forge]

a talent for bb where you empower it with an ult or soem shenanigans, and kill ur bb target all mobs in x area take massive dmg(think ogryn nuke) and the targetr turns into a chaos spawn,

[vestal pine]

that we never got

[gleaming hawk]

Yes... I think that's fine? I like it that way.

[vestal pine]

anything that stays off swift slaying is a goat in my book

[vestal pine]

so 0.61x
jeez thats low

[south folio]

i guess BB will have to have three upgrade nodes if flayer sticks around

shame

[frosty herald]

inquisitor martyr has psyker spawning demons when at max peril

[vestal pine]

also

psyker should just delete all the white nodes

blitz subnodes and keystone being longer doesnt help a bunch

[south folio]

the funny thing is

the # of white nodes that psyker has is comparable to the other classes

[vestal pine]

i think i like the keystone node designs outside of "i eat too much points" warp charges

[south folio]

it's just that we lack talent nodes

[vestal pine]

yeah because blitz nodes(2) and keystone nodes(3~5 extra points)

its been eaten

unless they somehow make all blitz subnodes free of charge(which is a dumb idea) psyker will always be taxing

[gleaming hawk]

More points, more tree, more skills, more more more

[frosty herald]

i need tank psyker

[vestal pine]

i forgot scriar gaze also takes 3 points extra

compared to like every ult ever which is 2

unless you are fotf and only take 1

[south folio]

no i mean like the colorful nodees with pictures compared to the gray circles

[gleaming hawk]

You know, Psykers might've been tempted to ignore keystones and just go for whites had they... y'know, had better whites, lol.

[south folio]

the # of gray circles that psyker has and the # of mandatory levels of gray circles that psykers have to step through to reach the bottom is similar to the other classes

[vestal pine]

i mean that the place for the blue nodes are gone cause psyker by design eats lot of that spate toward the blitz nodes and more keystone nodes

[south folio]

just that we lack colorful picture nodes and that makes it look a lot

[vestal pine]

like exclude this horrendous abomination

even then the blitz subnode takes up space for points to be spared across the blue nodes

[frosty herald]

this is why we need another subclass for every class it will fix the talent trees

[vestal pine]

servitor class when

[south folio]

no this is what i mean

look at this area

15 colorful nodees

[gleaming hawk]

Techpriest... initiate or something when

[final forge]

if you cant fix ur current trees, how does adding another fix it?

[south folio]

and zealot has more

[final forge]

doesnt that just make it more complex

[south folio]

like sure blitz upgrade nodees are there but they're not travel nodes either

they're not mandatory in any way

[vestal pine]

i guess

[south folio]

and the trees are designed such that you always have leftover points even after touching the bottom

[gleaming hawk]

sure but psyker feels a bit... ew without em

[vestal pine]

i just think they designed it to have less blue nodes cause psyker has to spend lot of points

[south folio]

yeah

just that i don't count them in since they're not travel/mandatory nodes

[vestal pine]

thats already 2 down the drain and psyker has less to work with

the white nodes(boring nodes) are quite the same as any other talent trees

but since psyker has less points to spend on them i think they just designed less blue

bit lazy i guess

[gleaming hawk]

Psyker does feel strapped for points in my mind when comparing to vet/zeal

[south folio]

i run DD so i feel fine on points

[vestal pine]

zeal always feels like its strapped for points for me even more than psyker
but thats cause zealot is stagnated as hell not because the nodes are shit

[south folio]

in zealot's case, there are banger nodes that i make the tradeoff to reach for

like, in zealot's case, there are a bunch of spread-out nodes that i want to get

[gleaming hawk]

I mean zeal gets to move all around his tree if he so chooses, whereas I don't get that feeling from psyker. It feels like the opportunity cost in psyker is much higher yet they're not really getting much out of it.

[vestal pine]

for me thats the 50% tdr

[south folio]

in psyker's case, i feel that it's that the nodees i get are the best of the whatevs that i can get

[vestal pine]

its designed fine-ish i just think some nodes need reevaluation to where it should go

and maaaybe more crosspaths

[south folio]

e.g., zealot's duellist is just a better disrupt destiny and marksman focus

[vestal pine]

psyker has some stuff wrong about him in a fundamental level

[vestal pine]

not the first time a single blue node is better than any of the keystones

[frosty herald]

Psyker and vet are my worst for "im always short on points"

[final forge]

zealot tree feels great, you always feel like, man i just wish i had one more point for this thing

[frosty herald]

Like fatshark let me go up the talent tree smh

[gleaming hawk]

are any of the keystones ever actually key?

[ember yew]

[vestal pine]

marty

imho

only because its like the most restricting nodes in the gamee. idk
marksman focus realy needs even more touchup

[south folio]

i feel obligated to take any of the three keystones on zealot

vet is a bit more loose and i feel that i can abandon keystones, but weapon specialist is usually my fallback because i always run psword

[gleaming hawk]

eh, I think martyr is a bit... well, the cost of picking it is a lot of curio stats and reduced health stim viability for... eh results

[final forge]

only keystone for me i am eh about is piety, momentum is nice but im a marty guy

[south folio]

usually i take piety because i want brain off gameplay because of +50% tdr and don't want to think

[gleaming hawk]

I generally use the tagging one on vet

[vestal pine]

momentum is a less "deranged" per say version of marty imho

piety is actually droozing

like the left piety is interesting

but the right one is

something

[final forge]

89% crit knife tdr days, super brain off and learning to move good times

[vestal pine]

still feel like i get scuffed with this since if i take damage i take in chunks

[south folio]

eyah but it's fine cuz that gets reduced by 50%

[vestal pine]

this is my keystoneless zealot build

[south folio]

i have fotf to start engagements off with crits and 2 charges to blow shit through

[vestal pine]

ye i just never felt that
instead i put points in dualist cause i forgot to actually ake room for that n stuff

[south folio]

and +50% tdr is either a travel node or a 1 point cost on a crit build (or any build involving the top-right tree)

[vestal pine]

ye

[south folio]

though you're practically taking both second wind and enduring faith

[final forge]

thats that one point i always want to put into but just missing, for duelist most of the times lol but its a good thing options plenty of em

[vestal pine]

i take it over second wind for tacaxe

since least it can still utilize cooldown node well

[south folio]

i take both for insane toughness economy

[vestal pine]

still feel like zealot doesnt have a great way of regenning toughness

[hushed knoll]

I feel obligated to say hi

[vestal pine]

like loner doesnt count

[south folio]

second wind

[final forge]

keel tings

[vestal pine]

outside of that 1 broken talent

[final forge]

dont get hit

[vestal pine]

yeah thats my notion nowdays

especially after the shooter buff

second wind is unreliable for me

[south folio]

second wind is just gonna be my answer cuz i don't run other trees and it's just so definitively good

and it's a no brainer for crit mains like us

[vestal pine]

like i slide and get hit with half the volley and dodge the other half and i just basically negated damage

[south folio]

second wind is the exact same as it has been

[south folio]

yeah? and that's a good thing

because the alternative is that you take damage instead of negating it

you can also just spam slide/dodge to regen it

since downtime comes up when you're just spamming dodge and wanting to fight in melee, and the dodge cooldown isn't fast enough for 100% uptime

[neat drum]

loner zealots still have the default zealot aura right?

[south folio]

and that's what +50% tdr is for to reduce the toughness damage i take

[subtle cedar]

no

[vestal pine]

never actually got that part which is why im shady
its a very great node especially now that crit cdr is nerfed and you cant rely on fotf for massive toughness regen

[south folio]

combine second wind and +50% tdr, and you'll be net positive most times

[vestal pine]

it does according to fatshark UI

[final forge]

this is the answer to toughness just play around this and ur always fine, mostly.

[vestal pine]

so eventually i grown on it

[vestal pine]

60% tdr seems nice

[neat drum]

so is the ui thing a bug, or does it actually exist

[vestal pine]

also idk if this would work

[vestal pine]

according to someone who tested

it does exist

least for yourself

[subtle cedar]

huh

[vestal pine]

i assume the same for others since auraless zealot gives the same buff

[final forge]

it is when someone shoots a pox or barrel on you and pops ur until death and have 1 hp so have to butt clench for a while :S

[vestal pine]

its nice ye

but kinda expensive for me

revanant, twbs, etc

[vestal pine]

seems like survivalist is the only upgrade node that doesnt override its unupgraded counterpart

so wondering if a build like this would work

like the vet's power is all in the post-aura

so idk how to do this really

[final forge]

ive always ran rev so like im used to it by now

that build looks super tanky, but like no plamsa or ps to brute force for lack of dmg stuff

[vestal pine]

seems like survivalist is the only upgrade node that doesnt override its unupgraded counterpart

tbh this is super tanky

you get like 211 toughness nodes and get like

every toughness regen talents and TDR that matter

well except benediction

this is a auraless zealot build i run sometimes for the funnies

[final forge]

so self nerfing?

this is akin to old times running grays just cus

[sly mauve]

do i need the 3 stacks of momentum on dodge ?

[grizzled aspen]

I would take it. Very useful just to keep momentum going faster.

More stacks = more damage.

[vestal pine]

if you dodge like 4 attack at once you get 12 stacks from pressing the dodge button

so ye

lets you keep earning momentum even in combat

[sly mauve]

honestly i think i wont take a keystone at all

normal perks are better

wound zealot is no go for me since i need to ditch curios
crit is only 10% and nerfed anyway
and momentum zealot is 15% attack speed and dmg wow

[vestal pine]

wound zealot is super strong

[sly mauve]

i dont like running on 10% hp

[vestal pine]

40% dmg increase for 5 wound being taken off is no joke but ye its hard to justify the loss

momentum is p great

[sly mauve]

for evis

[vestal pine]

used to buff you up to 20% for each but

[vestal pine]

no cooldown reduction? anyway, the top left talent only activates every other swing

[sly mauve]

im only lvl 80 zealot so i might change my mind on what u say

[sly mauve]

ik but its a evis

[vestal pine]

i guess

it'll deal decent damagw every other swing

[sly mauve]

i just really think that the middle perks are a must for every zealot

[vestal pine]

evis used to work well before the crit cdr nerf piety
basically got full charge back in 2 swings
very fun

[sly mauve]

soc, twbs, until death etc

yeah ik i have a crit evis too x)

[vestal pine]

twbs and revanant is a must

also take dualist but evi gets less merit

[sly mauve]

evis has bad multipliers on weakshot

[vestal pine]

ye

but still buffs a lot

but ye

not important on evis

[sly mauve]

idk maybe its better than the top lefT?

i guess it does not make a difference at all, so i might just take duelist for boss dmg

and i think SoC just works really well with enduring faith
ranged dmg? -> soc
when Im in melee -> enduring

[regal sorrel]

Haven't played In a while(started yesterday again)
Does this still holde up or was something nerfed?

[quaint verge]

Windows+shift+S gives you snipping capture

[calm wolf]

best perks for the double barreel shotgun?

[spice flame]

is this good weapon for zealot?

[sterile stone]

Curved monitor gaming

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[regal sorrel]

Indeed
So far I like the shotgun
Pairs well with a chain axe for melting enemies

[calm wolf]

what perks are you rolling on the shottie?

[proud kraken]

whats the point?

isnt hammerblow better in every way

[haughty haven]

real question here

is bloodletter 4 worth it for zealot?

on the cs

[delicate sail]

is this salvageable?

[haughty haven]

yeah that's fine

p sure it's headtaker and decimator with flak and maniac

the pen i kinda dogshit but meh

[delicate sail]

so keep flak, swap weakspot to maniac and swap Bloodthirsty to decimator?

[slate void]

Why does the shop keep offering me 370 stat laspistols

[haughty haven]

yeah idik i've been getting them as weapon rewards too lol

[haughty haven]

that's what i'd do unless there's bm for it

[slate void]

I have 8 different 370+ laspistols now

[haughty haven]

not entirely sure what the breakpoints are on it or anything but flak is always welcome and so is headtaker on axes as far as i know

[delicate sail]

I don't have decimator for it so chucked on Blood letter 4 for hilarious bleed stacks

[shrewd imp]

hi can you tell me the best combination of belsing and perks for ironhelmh thunder hammer?

[haughty haven]

i'm looking at a 3400 milk money chain sword rn with bloodletter 4 on it lol

[delicate sail]

16 bleed stacks are always funny

[haughty haven]

it's 14 on the cs but still

[drowsy steppe]

thrust and headtaker

yea chainsword's bleed stacks cap at 14

[shrewd imp]

thanks

[heady sinew]

Just a reminder to all smealots that FotF and invo of death got nerfed

Suck it

[haughty haven]

it's really not that bad

[drowsy steppe]

you speak as if the class as a whole got nerfed

[heady sinew]

All smealots should delete class

Regardless of nerfs

[left iron]

Oh no, the ability that did everything and the dumbest CDR thing to exist got a slap on the wrist, whatever shall we do?

Good riddance

[heady sinew]

You shall cry

[haughty haven]

i still use both and they're fine

[twin wagon]

brauto kind of lost it's niche this patch, which is more pressing

[haughty haven]

you just can't spam em every 3 seconds which if anyone thinks wasn't broken is literally kinda fucking 3 head

[slate void]

I never used FotF

[left iron]

No, people lost the ability to bring in whatever if they used a melee that cant deal with carapace. Brauto itself is still okay

[north sedge]

True you can't mow down crowds and specials and elites with it anymore, wait...

[twin wagon]

The crit chain it had was the only thing keeping it above single shot rifles/shotguns

Even HH spamming is more dps

[slate void]

What's Brauto

[twin wagon]

And no one was emptying it on hordes...or shouldn't be

It was for maniacs/flak

[vestal pine]

oof deci

[twin wagon]

Braced autoguns

[vestal pine]

to troll you

[slate void]

People still used those?

[twin wagon]

For crit memebuilds was the only thing left, yes

Not anymore

[slate void]

Huh
Guess I missed out

[north sedge]

🤔

Brautos are still very good guns

[drowsy steppe]

it doesnt have bleed 😔

[north sedge]

True

[slate void]

Eh
They were never accurate enough to suit my needs (deleting Trappers)

[north sedge]

Err

They're weirdly accurate

Especially agri

[slate void]

Abag supremacy

Rn I'm just hunting for a good double-barrel to slap Spec/Maniac on it as an Annoyance Remover

Also the new bolt pistol because I just wanna see if Puncture is fun with crit builds

[fresh rover]

Zealot with Eviscerator, taking no damage while surrounded. Completely hard carried. How did they do that?

[sly mauve]

sometimes they just refuse to die

[slate void]

Momentum go brrrr

[sly mauve]

• second wind

[fresh rover]

I have got to try that

[slate void]

Also wait are Eviscerators considered bad now

[sly mauve]

ysesterday i made a new evis with momentum and rampage

issa gud

[slate void]

I do not keep up with the meta for this game
Mostly I just put together fun outfits and collect endgame-tier weapons

[sly mauve]

zealot just has problems against crushers and maulers