zealot-class

[vestal pine]

shotguns switch pristine

usually

i spent way too much on

sauls

and still havent got a good shit

[shrewd moth]

Yeah, I had no such luck on my vet

Im trying to find some spots to get sainted gunslinger so I can reload even faster

[drowsy steppe]

hello back asraval

[obtuse solstice]

what am I looking for on the new mauls

[solar gorge]

skullcrusher and entropic

flakniac i guess

[drowsy steppe]

what does timed blocking means

[silk sail]

Hitting block at the last possible moment before attacks connect

[polar nexus]

You can only proce fb on lmb. Never could do it on RMB.

[radiant nacelle]

Not even worth it on left click really

and again

who wants to not use alt fire really

[silk sail]

Lmb has a better minimum pellet count

[radiant nacelle]

and a worse enjoyment amount

[drowsy steppe]

is it?

[silk sail]

I enjoy not running out of ammo too

[trail grove]

Imma say this.

I love mah DB Shotgun

[radiant nacelle]

i don't think he's saying it's not possible to proc full bore on alt fire mechanically, but that it's practically unrelistic to do so

[drowsy steppe]

alright games verifiying for me

Im testing full bore again

[full nebula]

best blessings/perks for shock mauls?

[silk sail]

But I'll probably not pull it out for sniping unless potshots are absolutely necessary

[frosty herald]

do not use full bore on the new shotgun

[obtuse solstice]

what blessings for new shotty

[radiant nacelle]

the db shotgun can't snipe at all

even at medium range it fails to kill basic elites because the spread is so wild

[polar nexus]

Maybe on a big target it's possible it was quite late yesterday when I tried it. But yeah I could proce it on rmb

[polar nexus]

It's a sawed off shotgun not q sbiper

[obtuse solstice]

death scatter?

[slender sigil]

what melee wep are you using with the new shotgun?

[silk sail]

I've allegedly heard it used to two tap snipers but I haven't bothered to roll one myself

[drowsy steppe]

2 tapping snipers on a 1 shot potential shotgun is pretty sad aint it

[polar nexus]

Scatter double barrel and Deathspitter double are good

[uncut pivot]

gotta get perfect with your knives to use the shotty

[radiant nacelle]

maybe 2 shot snipers right in your face

i'm telling you that thing has no range

but again, 2 shotting sniper is pretty awful bar

[oblique nexus]

Yeah, the 8-man squads of Ragers alongside other units is really becoming a source of frustration.

[slender sigil]

why?

[uncut pivot]

no range lmao.

[silk sail]

Oh I'm not arguing it's great or anything, I personally find it one of the least interesting guns in this patch regardless

[slender sigil]

ahh the throwing knives , i thought the combat knife

[silk sail]

I just don't want to waste any more of the measly ammo reserves than I need to

[drowsy steppe]

alright

DB's RMB can proc fullbore

but I find something weird

[oblique nexus]

I love the double-barrel, myself. It's a consistently satisfying close-to-mid/close range blammer.
One shot for most enemies, two for meatier ones. Really fun for insta-braining mutant hulks.

Decent ammo reserves, too.
It doesn't get much back per pack, but TBH using it on large hordes to soften 'em up or on special targets up close is ezpz for conservative users. For a Veteran with ammo recovery per special kill it can practically become their primary weapon.

[drowsy steppe]

like

the spread of the pallet is so random even at fucking

face 2 face range

that fullbore can or cant proc at all

Fatshark WTF

[radiant nacelle]

yes

that is what i said

full bore is bad with shotgun

[uncut pivot]

its too late for me to try, but ive played enough of the ogryn shotty, shouldnt be too different

[radiant nacelle]

this one anyway

[hushed knoll]

Hi Malala

Mal

[slender sigil]

what is a good melee weapon to go with the new shotgun?

[hushed knoll]

Her

Jeez

[left iron]

[drowsy steppe]

hello stan 👋

[hushed knoll]

PLUH

[left iron]

You know the rules

[hushed knoll]

Ice ily

[drowsy steppe]

most zealot weapons

[drowsy steppe]

ooohhh you touch my malala

[oblique nexus]

I suggest something for anti-carapace or mobility.
It rips meaty targets but lacks armor penetration against Carapace, tho' it does fine against flak.
Otherwise, mobility to get around targets, maneuver hordes and to get close to special units ASAP are ideal.

[hushed knoll]

[drowsy steppe]

ok

[silk sail]

So knife zealot basically

[oblique nexus]

Ooooh my dingding dong

[drowsy steppe]

at least DB can hit the Mauler body's 1 shot bp

[ripe gorge]

what's the verdict on blessings for the new shock mauls?

[oblique nexus]

TBH knife and double-barrel shotty seems thematically appropriate as a pairing.
Can also use the chainsword tho', the one-handed one? It's basically an oversized knife with a revv.
Pretty noice backstab damage when revved up and it cuts down hordes fast.

Only loss versus the knife is it has a lower mobility value.

[radiant nacelle]

Nah

[silk sail]

Maybe throw on rev it up for the memes

[radiant nacelle]

Ive mained chainsword for a long time, it's amazing at horde clear. Doesn't need the double barrel support

[obtuse solstice]

wait they nerfed ranged chastise that's fucked

[radiant nacelle]

Chainsword isn't great on carapace either

[silk sail]

Melee rending also messes with certain bps too

Specifically chain weapons since they have a decent flak modifier

[oblique nexus]

Double-barrel isn't really a horde-clear gun, though it can blast them up close. It's most effective for special targets and especially meaty ones. Excellent for oneshotting otherwise nasty threats, barring Carapace-laden foes.
Ragers, mutant hulks, etc.

The double-barrel twinned blast is a noice cease existing tool.

[radiant nacelle]

DB is not great at elite management from using it yesterday

[oblique nexus]

...Then you suck, I guess?
Just gotta know the effective range, it has significant falloff after 30m or so.

[obtuse solstice]

and zamn rip crit builds, dclaw in the dumps

[south folio]

yeah a bit too slow in fire rate and rip if you run dance of death

[radiant nacelle]

I found it a good way to shut down hordes, mixed and otherwise, but it's not great at killing actual targets that matter

It's good for ragers I guess

[silk sail]

Most zealot melees can deal with meatboys well enough

[oblique nexus]

Wot
Are you kidding mate?
Did you roll dogshit stats?

[ornate bone]

whats a meatboy

[radiant nacelle]

Damage fall off sure but the pellet spread is so so bad at anything past medium that it's untenable in situations that are dire

Nah I got a good roll

[oblique nexus]

Yeah, fire within 30m.
It instagibs pretty much anything but Ogryns with Carapace armor. Oneshots ever other Ogryn if you aim a double-blast to the dome or even the chest in many cases.

[fleet zealot]

remember you can always slide closer

[fleet zealot]

aim for the neck

that's what i learned with the shotguns, should be the same here

[silk sail]

I envision similar use cases as a kicky, for priority targets sneaking about in a horde

[radiant nacelle]

I mean I don't plan to use it, revolver pairs with chainsword way better. Which was my point

[oblique nexus]

Ye, because spread is a thing and it's better to land shots on the head and torso than the head alone.
Tho' if the enemy is within hugging range, you can aim right for the dome with minimal pellets lost.

[radiant nacelle]

It doesn't overlap with chainsword well at all

[silk sail]

Meatshotting is just for style points

[oblique nexus]

Nothing beats oneshotting mutant hulks as they rush you with a twinned blam.

Shit is satisfying as hell and consistently so, ezpz to handle.

Hear RAAAAAGH!, turn around, BLAM, giggle as the mutant flops across the room and you reload in time to BLAM a second.
It's cathartic. Therapeutic.

[radiant nacelle]

Yeah that's pretty awesome

I've never felt mutants matter much tbh

Everyone targets them anyway

[silk sail]

chonkers

They should give it a blessing to cr0wn daemonhosts

[calm salmon]

lol

Begone gun zealots

[ornate bone]

ur a bit late

[fleet zealot]

ur late

we already knew this would happen

[calm salmon]

Maybe, but I call this vindication.

[radiant nacelle]

You guys are the ones who comment first on posts aren't you

[fleet zealot]

the god emperor willed it so

[calm salmon]

lmao no we didn't

[radiant nacelle]

It's one day lol

[fleet zealot]

zealots knew it would happen

[oblique nexus]

Nor I, but when an ally gets grabbed, it saves them being yeeted or bonked into the floor even once. And the fact that you can blam after they grapple an ally or when rushing at/past you.. It saves a lot of time, focus and stress for your allies and you alike.

Allows the team to keep their mind and movement against other threats. It's like, a HARD counter to the mutant hulks.
Can also oneshot Ragers, so that's nice.

[calm salmon]

People have been arguing that that was intended for months and months because it went unpatched for so long

[fleet zealot]

we knew it was def a contender for nerfs, or it would be broken down into nodes

[radiant nacelle]

Not disagreeing

Just don't see the need for that hard counter existing

[silk sail]

Also they balanced flamer specifically pointing towards this mechanic

[radiant nacelle]

It's neat but hardly necessary

[oblique nexus]

Because whilst damage is bad, being forcibly moved is worse.
And while many guns can kill a mutant, few if any can do so with relative ease of handling or kill in one shot.

[fleet zealot]

i mean, they can buff flamer now

because it's not tied to killing 30 crushers from one fuel tank and ability use

[calm salmon]

me when I get thrown by a mutant into a beast of nurgle who spits me on top of a demonhost

pain

[oblique nexus]

Or off a ledge. Insta-die.

Or into a horde. Or in front of a trio of Crushers.

[calm salmon]

No no, throw me into the horde.

That's where I want to be.

Anywhere else sucks

being in the middle of large groups of enemies is how I maintain toughness

[fleet zealot]

this is boris

[oblique nexus]

Mutant grabs you, pins you to a wall...
Stares into your eyes. Kisses you softly on the forehead...
It yeets you into the middle of the room below you, but all the enemies are focused on the floor above.

You can only stand and watch as your allies have fun killing everything, your own blade yet to be bloodied.

[radiant nacelle]

Not sure you're picking up what I'm putting down. It's not like I don't know the basics of the game or what freeing up mental resources can do for the team.

I'm just saying its not a game changing thing. Mutants are always focus fired.

[silk sail]

Displacement specials have been part and parcel of the L4D formula for a while though

[radiant nacelle]

Yep

[calm salmon]

The only problem is that Fatshark has to forcibly move us through mechanics like burster explosions, mutant throws, chaos spawn throws, trappers, etc because we're too strong to be moved by environmental effects like acid on the floor

There's a reason everyone shits on the jockey. Its bad game design.

[oblique nexus]

And they're the most dangerous if not killed swiflty, yeah.
Nothing more deadly than being split from the squad, thrown into an instakill scenario or the like.

An unlucky/clever displacement can seriously bone a whole team.

[spare dome]

so from my time using the dubbarrel yesterday i wanna say that full bore is not that unusable IF you have dance of death. but overal, man, blessings for it are kinds rough

[radiant nacelle]

Can't disagree. Fatshark is great at a lot of things but a few of them they take the easy way out and it shows sometimes. This is one of them

[radiant nacelle]

Any special is at their most dangerous if not killed quickly

[silk sail]

Ngl a hunter/gutter knocking a whole team off a cliff is pretty funny

[calm salmon]

Until you realize keeping a random special alive helps pace out special wave spawns.

[oblique nexus]

At least we can SHOVE the bursters, unlike most such games where the only option is blam them from afar or use a gun with high knockback to blow them away and THEN kill them. Not to mention the nigh-mandatory reduced corruption damage perks on Curios that make them far less of a run-ending threat.

[calm salmon]

Then you sit there and baby a special until you can safely remove it and handle the next special wave.

[silk sail]

I know some people who voiced wanting qtes or timed breaks for diaablers in vermintide as a legitimate criticism

[calm salmon]

what

I use uh

I don't even know on human curios anymore, I'm so used to ogryn choices

[radiant nacelle]

I mean just bexause I think muties don't need my special attention doesn't mean I let them stay alive

[calm salmon]

Sniper Res, Gunner Res, Toughness Regen

[drowsy steppe]

who said this

[silk sail]

In my experience people just hate playing the jockey in versus

[vestal pine]

jockey can be a gamechanger in versus

[silk sail]

They don't have the aimbot latching nor mobility and is considered the worst roll by a large margin

[calm salmon]

Jockey is stupid.

That is all.

[oblique nexus]

• Corruption resistance (not the 'grimoire' one)
• Toughness regen' rate
• Whatever you like or happen to roll

Corruption resistance doesn't affect the baseline corruption of carrying a grimoire, but it DOES reduce the corruption gained from the passive ticks it deals. It also affects the corruption applied by the grunt infested in-game among other sources of the damage type.

...And toughness regen' is a no-brainer for passively reducing damage, as even partial reduction to damage on HP is handy.

[fleet zealot]

why toughness regen rate on zealot lol we are melee fiends

[calm salmon]

isn't it just poxwalkers that apply corruption when they deal HP damage

poxwalkers. . . shouldn't be hitting you

[polar nexus]

It's actually more a buff than a nerf

[fleet zealot]

and tox bombs and poxhounds

[oblique nexus]

Because toughness is the hard-counter to ranged attacks.
It legit allows you to get into melee range without getting your HP shredded.

[calm salmon]

Yeah poxhounds is whatever. 30 seconds to die or 40 isn't really meaningful

[ornate bone]

on zealot you want toughness, gunner res and 3rd is up to you

[fleet zealot]

then take gunner resist or take 5% toughness

[vast basin]

Corruption res is pretty meh, I'd rather just have more toughness or hp

[calm salmon]

And the last time I played, I could afk in pox clouds as ogryn

[fleet zealot]

toughness regen does not help you get into range cause being ticked once resets the timer

[oblique nexus]

Bruh, you never played higher difficulties? Grunts with guns, everywhere, alongside gunners and snipers and moar.
5% stacked to 15% ain't gonna cut it when you're under nigh-constant fire or moving between conflicts rapidly.

[ornate bone]

i only play auric+ and acud is speaking truth lmao

[fleet zealot]

we have too many sources of toughness in our tree that are completely separate from coherency regen

[calm salmon]

Yeah the only reason ogryn takes toughness regen is because you can get to uh. . . 11.2 toughness per second? Something like that, with all of his buffs.

[fleet zealot]

lol i only play auric plus

[calm salmon]

It sucks on everyone else.

[fleet zealot]

literally it sucks to go toughness regen

just use your talents

slide

meatshield

[calm salmon]

Chastise is right there

And its functionally 0 cooldown thanks to Blazing Piety

[ornate bone]

its less there now since the cdr nerf but yeah

[oblique nexus]

Welp, I'll give it a go since folks here seem to agree...
Tho' I do still think corruption resistance is pretty handy.

[vast basin]

Well not really 0 cooldown anymore

[calm salmon]

I use the funny mk15 eviscerator so I have momentum too, anyway.

[fleet zealot]

toughness coherency regen is shit on zealot, it doesn't work if you are engaged in melee, it gets reset whenever you take toughness damage, and we gain more toughness from being in melee via other sources

[calm salmon]

schwing, schwing lookie me 30% toughness

[fleet zealot]

corruptionr esistance is fine i wouldn't prio it over sniper, gunner, or flat hp/toughness, but i would never go toughness coherency, i'd rather go stam regen before that

[calm salmon]

woah

someone suggesting sniper res on zealot curios instead of just dodging

Times are changing.

[ornate bone]

I highly recommend 3 toughness curios, with toughness and gunner res on perks + whatever else u can get ur hands on

[fleet zealot]

blazing piety was nerfed to proc once per swing

[ornate bone]

unless martyr then wounds

[fleet zealot]

1x sniper is the best imo 2 is overkill

[calm salmon]

A reasonable change.

[silk sail]

Stamgen is my #1 preferred roll on most humies

[fleet zealot]

helps them not instantly take off your wounds and with certain set ups you can tank the shot through toughness

[calm salmon]

I wonder if ogryn can still take 0 damage from a sniper shot

[fleet zealot]

zealot has the highest humie stam regen so i don't even care for it that much

[calm salmon]

Probably, I'd have to imagine.

[fleet zealot]

FNP ogryn stacking toughness def could i imagine

[calm salmon]

Kinda funny that FNP can get you up to +1400% effective toughness in some scenarios

[fleet zealot]

all it is, 125 damage, that has an 10.0 adm vs player toughness (1250 damage)

with DR and max toughness boosts, def reachable, zealot and vet could both reach it before the talent rework

[teal zodiac]

whats the best ranged for stealth zealot?

[silk sail]

Knoif

[fleet zealot]

probably revolver

[calm salmon]

throwing knife

who needs guns when you can throw your weapon at them

[ornate bone]

take zarona and blades

[vestal pine]

lacerate knife stelf with revolver

[teal zodiac]

thanks m8s

[calm salmon]

Revolver+Throwing Knife still going strong on zealot?

[fleet zealot]

yep

[north sedge]

i wish i could throw my gun at someone like a bad guy who is out of ammo in an 80s action movie

[calm salmon]

Volov, Knife, mk15 eviscerator was my favorite kit on zealot.

[radiant nacelle]

You don't feel revolver and knives are redundant? I hated the overlap

[calm salmon]

Handled everything I needed to.

[ornate bone]

yes, blades for specials/gunners and zarona for armour/really far away problem enemies

[vast basin]

I try to avoid going Revo and throwing knife, they feel too close in their roles to me

[calm salmon]

Nope.

[radiant nacelle]

Knives and flamer feels so good

[ornate bone]

no, they fit different roles

[calm salmon]

Think of throwing knives as a way to extend your ammo economy.

[solar gorge]

when will we be able to have 2 melee weapons like in vt2

[calm salmon]

If you JUST have revolver, you need to shoot everything, which wastes ammo on soft specials like flamers and trappers.

[radiant nacelle]

Revolver already has incredible ammo economy

[ornate bone]

imagine having no knives and being forced to shoot specials with zarona, do you realize how much time u waste reloading

[calm salmon]

You know. . . you say that.

But when you get 400 specials/elites in a match

every extra bit of ammo goes a long way

[radiant nacelle]

I hear that

[ornate bone]

i never run out of knives or revo

[radiant nacelle]

I guess I just am pickier about my shots, haven't really ever had an issue

[calm salmon]

I be out here shooting everything because my eviscerator's reach isn't long enough

Also comes down to reaction times.

I'm not amazing amazing with mine, but 180ms is far faster than the majority of people out there.

So when you're reacting first to everything, you tend to eat up a bunch of ammo.

[radiant nacelle]

I'm not dissimilar

[ornate bone]

being able to turn your attention from a horde to a special in half a second, click, then go back to killing the horde AND your gun is still loaded for when a crusher/mauler appears is MASSIVE

[radiant nacelle]

Man who is using revolver on crushers

Y'all wild

[calm salmon]

Sometimes it works

[ornate bone]

????

[radiant nacelle]

Not right in the head

[calm salmon]

Just because a tool isn't 100% effective doesn't mean its 0% effective.

[ornate bone]

it 2 shots them on crit

[calm salmon]

This isn't star citizen

[radiant nacelle]

I'm not saying it doesn't work

[ornate bone]

what would you use

[radiant nacelle]

I'm saying it's not a good use of resources

[calm salmon]

I'll shoot crushers if they're in a horde.

[prisma fox]

anyone wanna share their pref choise of the new maces?

[calm salmon]

It feels terrible to have a dodge body blocked by a bruiser.

Easier to just remove the crusher and go back to hording.

[radiant nacelle]

I don't. I stun made them if it's bad and let my team handle it. If I'm forced to engage I use chainsword rev

[gusty orbit]

I did that with autoguns, now with no rending I feel weird, pretty bad change I'd say

[calm salmon]

Naw it's a good one.

At least in my opinion. Chastise was super broken with ranged rending.

[ornate bone]

"i let my team handle it" is the worst fucking excuse for not doing something I've ever heard

[calm salmon]

1800 damage throwing knives into a crusher is fucking stupid.

[ornate bone]

if you rely on your teammates for any flaws in your build you are a burden

[gusty orbit]

You have invincibility frames when pressing dodge, doesn't matter much if you didn't dodge, just that server sometimes does a bit of tomfoolery

[calm salmon]

Let alone mag dumping with the SAP(old), Autogun, Shotgun etc.

[radiant nacelle]

I don't feel it's reasonable to ever think I can build my character to handle every possible threat. Instead o build to my strengths and support my team in their weaknesses. Their strengths will almost always cover my weaknesses anyway

[calm salmon]

Rest in peace SAP

Will fatshark ever buff you 🙏

[gusty orbit]

That's the whole point of build diversity for zealot lmao

[radiant nacelle]

It's not a flaw to rely on my team

It's a team game

[silk sail]

Regardless of balance it's just an ill-fitting and unintuitive mechanic

[south folio]

the majority of zealot melees are fine into carapace anyways

and limiting players is not inherently a bad thing

[ornate bone]

whats gonna happen when you're last up and suddenly you dont have all the tools necessary to clutch the game

[gusty orbit]

Team games aren't usually played with the team firstly, you depend on your own skills and build first, and then you can think about the team

Hence why in horde shooters the best builds tend to do everything good

[radiant nacelle]

I do

[fast tiger]

blame it on the team, duh

[radiant nacelle]

I trust myself to handle what I'm great at

My build is not great at crushers

[gusty orbit]

Not let the situation come to that

[radiant nacelle]

Oh no so sad

[ornate bone]

unfortunately i do not dictate how my team plays

[gusty orbit]

I can kill most stuff so even if they're handicapped they will have an easier time

Of course there's always times that the 3 other people literally can't do anything so it's just meh, next

[silk sail]

Or just shroudfield laps around the place and hold the game hostage

[ornate bone]

I run a build that can very comfortably deal with every enemy so that I'm never reliant on other people to cover any weaknesses I would have otherwise.

[silk sail]

Eventually someone will snap and free up a slot

[ornate bone]

true

[south folio]

nothing wrong with running non-optimal builds

[gusty orbit]

Yeah pretty much, I'll have to change mine sadly, autoguns are crap on zealots now, well, for what I look in a ranged weapon for My hammer build

[frozen glen]

you're a non optimal build

[south folio]

be quiet gay

[frozen glen]

wat da hell

happy pride month arco

[south folio]

happy pride month to you too

[radiant nacelle]

While that's great I do feel it's not ideal to be a jack of all trades. You gotta specialize somewhere to be exceptional in the areas you can be. So the team is more than the sum of your parts sort of thing.

But it seems we just disagree on that and that's okay too.

[gusty orbit]

In premades specializing is cool

For randoms? Hell no

[fast tiger]

it’s not that hard to make a build that is exceptional at all things

[fleet zealot]

happy pride month kindred!

[radiant nacelle]

If a run fails because little old me didn't build his revolver to two shot crushers instead of three shot then I should be playing a different game

[gusty orbit]

That too, all classes have at least 3 stupid op builds that do everything perfectly

[fleet zealot]

nah, darktide is a game that works best as 4 peope who are individually capably at everything, but having their specializations, imo it doesn't work if you aim to specialize first

unless you are in a premade

[radiant nacelle]

I agree you should cover as many bases as possible

But not at the cost of what you're good at

And I don't think a crusher killing revolver is it

[fleet zealot]

but expecting pubs to compensate cause you can't handle armor, horde or specs or whatever

[north sedge]

I aim to be carried by my team, perhaps in a very fine palanquin

[fleet zealot]

isn't it your knife? uncanny+push attacks

[fast tiger]

perhaps an exquisite chaise longue

[radiant nacelle]

I don't run knife

[gusty orbit]

Pretty much the same basis for every horde shooter

Specializing is fun in premades, in pubs it's just waiting for a random to get overhead crushed

[fast tiger]

sure but there’s also the bolter, the bolt pistol, and a healthy amount of melee weapons that can deal with crushers as well

[radiant nacelle]

This started because I don't believe in building revolver to kill crushers

Sure those work

[fast tiger]

you’re not really starved for options

[radiant nacelle]

Those aren't what I run

Nothing wrong with someone running those

Not sure what you are trying to get at sorry

[fast tiger]

i mean the reality is that the “correct” way to build a revolver should just happenstantially also be good at killing crushers so

[radiant nacelle]

Well I disagree

[fast tiger]

hand cannon plus surgical gets you there regardless

[north sedge]

Yea the ideal revolver build deals with crushers anyway

[radiant nacelle]

Surgical is just chance, not damage

[fast tiger]

surgical turns on hand cannon

brother what are you waffling about

[gusty orbit]

Revolver with surgical is the oldest trick in the book since it got buffed way long ago, to the point it was nerfed, there's a reason every zealot and their mom use a revolver

I only agree on disliking the revolver, I don't care for it

[radiant nacelle]

Not sure why you think I don't like surgical

I run it t4

Just commenting that it's not helping damage

[ornate bone]

hsword 9 > stomps hordes, maniacs, flak, any ranged enemy i can get close to, is fine against unyielding and lone carapace, works fine for monsters
blades > deletes any special/gunner thats out of melee reach
zarona> wrecks carapace, unyielding, works fine for monsters

all bases covered

[fast tiger]

crits are in fact helping damage

revolvers are finesse weapons

[radiant nacelle]

They are but you're missing my point

[gusty orbit]

Crits are what make the revolver do damage lol

[fast tiger]

honestly my guy i think you’re missing everyone else’s points

[gusty orbit]

Yeah, I'm done with that

[ornate bone]

i feel like im on reddit or steam discussions rn

[oblique nexus]

Choose a weapon you like best...
Make a build around it with your class perks...
Pair a ranged/melee with it that can take down the threats it struggles to manage.

ezpz.

[north sedge]

Crits dont help dmg, surgical is merely emotional support for handcannon

[fleet zealot]

it's guaranteed 100% after it stacks

lol PLEASE

[radiant nacelle]

I'm fully aware how surgical works lol

[fleet zealot]

you don't even need to wait for full stacks if you know your rough crit chance

[gusty orbit]

Yeah, I've known that since early 2023 🙂

[fast tiger]

sorry excuse me sir do you have paperwork for that emotional support blessing

[radiant nacelle]

I'm aware of that too

[fleet zealot]

emotional support blessings

[radiant nacelle]

Here's how I feel:

Breakpoint has hand cannon and carapace and elites killing a crusher in 3 headshot crits. Maybe you can make that two with some fancy talents.

I build my revolver to deal with long range specials, which means I take unarmoured and flak with surgical so no matter where I hit snipers I get the kill.

I build it this way because a loose sniper or bomber out of range that no one has time for is way worse than a loose crusher.

Don't think one or two fewer shots on one crusher matters? Not at all

[ornate bone]

how do you deal with 3 crushers rushing you

[fast tiger]

they let their team handle it, as they’ve said before

[radiant nacelle]

If I feel I'm backed in a corner I stun grenade

[ornate bone]

the smiker got me

[fleet zealot]

flak i can see but unarmored lol

[gusty orbit]

Or the usual 7 crusher patrol xd

[radiant nacelle]

Unarmoured is to deal with damage dropoff against snipers on t5

[ornate bone]

what melee do you run alongside it ?

[vestal pine]

ass

[ornate bone]

i feel like youd need to take a knife or shredder weapon for it

[radiant nacelle]

I run chainsword. It handles hordes and anything not mauler or crusher

[fast tiger]

lacerate knife!!!

[radiant nacelle]

But like...how so you deal with 3 crushers? Three shot all 3 of them? Is that really better than four shotting them? By how much? I don't feel it's enough to remove the ability to miss important special kills at long range. Maybe we just differ there. Not like zealot meta is in shambles or anything.

[opal star]

dealing with 3 crushers is easy

step 1) die

[ornate bone]

have you heard of blades of faith

[radiant nacelle]

...throwing knives on crushers?

Also that has nothing to do with how you build revolver

[ornate bone]

no it has to do with killing far away specials

[oblique nexus]

You'd be surprised how many folks have no bloody clue how to build a build.

[fervent geode]

FatsharkStrawHat
Community Manager
4h
Hey there, thank you for bringing this up. We missed a patch note for this change. I’ve added it to the end of Patch Notes pt. 2 4, but I’ll post here too:

‘Invocation of Death’
Can now only trigger once per attack.
Dev Note: While class Abilities are really fun to use and a key part of a character build, they are also balanced around their cooldowns.

However, the Abilities cannot find a healthy balance when the cooldown can vary by large degrees due to Ability Cooldown Reduction effects.

We are therefore looking to rebalance the Ability Cooldown Reduction instances which result in extremely high uptimes of Abilities.

Invocation of Death, combined with the Zealot’s crit-focused kit, led to unhealthy situations when paired with huge cleaving strikes into multiple enemies; the new version will still be a really valuable pick in the talent tree, but not as overpowering as before by normalizing the amount of cooldown reduction awarded to players when fighting elites or hordes, with single target or cleave based weapons.

oh come on really..?

[radiant nacelle]

Oh, I see what you mean

[ornate bone]

you can kill 12 specials, without having to replenish blitz, without having to spend time switching weapons or reloading

[spare dome]

Yes, really

[drowsy steppe]

ok game yes I want to roll falter 4 times in my shock mauls

[fervent geode]

They should Roll Back this...

[frozen glen]

no

[opal star]

they shouldn’t this shit’s fun asf

[ornate bone]

im not happy about it but its a fair nerf

[drowsy steppe]

no its a based change

[gusty orbit]

I really don't know names, what even is invocation of death

[drowsy steppe]

crit cdr is busted already

[ornate bone]

crit cdr

[fervent geode]

it's critical cool down

[gusty orbit]

Got it

[fervent geode]

not at all

This nerf is not fair for zealot

[drowsy steppe]

???

[frozen glen]

god

[drowsy steppe]

it doesnt break piety at all

[ornate bone]

i get that nerf to be fair, it was crazy being able to replenish fury every few seconds

whats not fair is nerfing cdr but not nerfing some of the other things zealot has but otherwise yes its fair

[drowsy steppe]

it just tones down how busted it is

[radiant nacelle]

I ran knives for a long while and really like them. They're great at killing specials. They have trouble with hordes being in the way and very far range kills since lining up long throws take more time and pull me out of focusing on other stuff. Revolver is an easy aim and shoot, knives aren't the farther away they are.

So I prefer revolver because the overlap isn't helpful. Other people said earlier they don't overlap and I still disagree with that, especially since you're suggesting I use knives for long range so I can build my revolver to 3 shit instead of 4 shot crushers. I'd rather run stun nade.

[fervent geode]

Well maybe you're right

[spare dome]

its only crazy to me that we got it before veteran lmao

[fervent geode]

But I really don't like this nerf;;

[radiant nacelle]

But again, how would you deal with 3 crushers charging you? 9 shots is one reload.

[ornate bone]

fwiw you can build revo entirely to combat carapce and still have it be extremely good for specials

and ive never found ammo to be an issue

[buoyant pewter]

Yeah

[radiant nacelle]

Yes I agree

[spare dome]

but yes it was always gonna happen

[vestal pine]

invoc one of the best reduction talents got shafted

🤡

[radiant nacelle]

But on t5 you can miss kills due to long range damage dropoff, and that's worse to me than saving 3 shots against 3 crushers

I don't find ammo to be an issue either. I'm saying 3 shot vs 4 shot is doing nothing lol

[ornate bone]

imo with the crit reduction theyve double nerfed fury so i think the duration of fury should last longer like it did for ranged weapons

[gusty orbit]

People with knives and fast weapons are gonna get less fucked

[buoyant pewter]

I mean it sucks yeah but that’s a nerf tbh, no one loves them

[vestal pine]

kinda

[misty nova]

Yeah, prime knife hours

[fervent geode]

yea...

[ornate bone]

it drastically reduces the time spent reloading in order to kill another crusher

[fervent geode]

I understand sahs

[gusty orbit]

I use hammer a lot, I guess that is done now or whatever, triggering only one cdr per heavy swing will be xd

[fast tiger]

This is what I was saying earlier

[vestal pine]

first thing i did was to remove my relic catachan build

[misty nova]

If you don't use knife, they'll probably be balanced on the future and you'll never experience this patch

[vestal pine]

and return to fotf catachan build

[buoyant pewter]

Not a huge fan of relic

I don’t like putting away my weps

[vestal pine]

relic is goat

[ornate bone]

i hate using relic but i love teamamtes having relic

[vestal pine]

except goat kicks like a mule

[buoyant pewter]

Ik ik but weps

[fast tiger]

Realistically with carapace+maniac perks on a hand cannon surg revolver you’re already one shotting everything that’s not a crusher

[misty nova]

Also chastise with 100% rending and knife with Uncanny Strike stacked seems interesting

[gusty orbit]

Same

[radiant nacelle]

I think we can both grab a calculator and do the math on the downtime here, so I'm not back and forthing on that. I don't think that time saved is as valuable as securing long range problem specials that can fuck you over in extended horde events. Crushers will go down either way. Bombers and snipers that keep sneaking off won't.

[vestal pine]

if you crit

[fast tiger]

the body shot bp for a sniper is really not that important over increased versatility

[fast tiger]

yeah that’s the surg part

[vestal pine]

its slow part

[ornate bone]

i have carapace and elite cos hadron but also im fine with it

[vestal pine]

i use unarmored flak

scab gunners die

🤡

[fast tiger]

it’s like 1.5 seconds to guarantee a crit with surg if you have a good crit bonus stat on the gun

[radiant nacelle]

Seems like you disagree so that's fine. That's just my stance and I'm a bit frustrated the logic of that is trampled because of crusher maximization of...one more bullet... Is seen as tremendously ideal

[fast tiger]

it’s not really that slow

[fast tiger]

to be frank this stopped being about revolvers specifically nearly immediately

[vestal pine]

BP is a BP

you cant say its a half

[radiant nacelle]

Yeah I run surgical I know what you mean

[vestal pine]

[fast tiger]

You said you don’t build toward crushers at all

that was what got people going ?????

[oblique nexus]

Knives seem great, but since I play on a gamepad and the button is bound to my D-pad... It's not terribly convenient trying to aim from the hip to yeet them.

I really wish there was a toggle in the settings to let me wield them like other grenades, so I could then aim them and toss with my triggers as usual. As-is, they're just so cumbersome to utilize I don't even bother.

[ornate bone]

knives on controller sounds suck

[radiant nacelle]

I definitely dislike you can't hold a knife like a grenade yeah

[oblique nexus]

It's mega-suck. The worst.

Maybe someday somebody will make a mod for 'em to be used as such?

[radiant nacelle]

I guess my response to that is if I'm running revolver and chainsword... What DOES constitute building to crushers? If it's revolver I'm not missing much since 3 to 4 shots isn't doing a lot. And I don't want to sacrifice securing special kills at any range to do so

Therefore

I throw stun grenades

Let the team assist me

Or rev them to death

[oblique nexus]

I mean
Zealot's heavier Eviscerator variant with the rush ability can oneshot 'em swiftly, so there's that?
Gotta trigger AFTER connecting the revved strike tho', because the ability is bugged and otherwise fails to function properly and instead boosts the damage of the initial whack of the strike rather than the full attack.

[gusty orbit]

Anyway, what's the sentiment on the new weapons? I don't feel like playing my other characters

[radiant nacelle]

Sure, but again, I run chainswords

[gusty orbit]

All rev weapons one shot crushers when doing the mid rev dash bug, one day that'll get fixed too🤪

[vestal pine]

knives on controller sounds suck

[radiant nacelle]

I guess this is all a response to me being baffled people believe crusher killing revolvers are the only way they should be built

[oblique nexus]

Can do the same with that too, I think?

[radiant nacelle]

And it's not the case at all

[vast basin]

It's not a bug afaik, the rev just doesn't count as it's own attack so it gets the full benefit of the bonus damage

[vestal pine]

from what i can tell rending also helps you deal more damage on targets at long ranges?

[ornate bone]

true

[vestal pine]

not just crusher

[south folio]

duellist sustained assault chainsword will oneshot crushers with FotF rev yeah

[oblique nexus]

I really hope it's fixed so that we can DASH with it and the attack is properly buffed, man.
As-is, you gotta choose to use it either for mobility or to buff the attack from wherever you're standing when you strike.

Then again, I do kinda like that choice in function... It's interesting and a fun way to balance such; versatile but limiting, potent but choice in its use.

[vestal pine]

mine doesnt

[radiant nacelle]

Rending isn't helpful against long range snipers who are unarmored

[vestal pine]

its not helpful for that

vut long range gunners

long range reapers

etc

[radiant nacelle]

Sure but that's still only one crusher, the other two are still coming at me

[gusty orbit]

That's way better, ever since I knew about the dash bug well, gotta make that choice, either kill instantly or rip only half their hp

[radiant nacelle]

I already kill those two anyway

Reapers are two shot but yeah

[fleet zealot]

RENDING DOESN'T WORK ON UNARMORED OR INFESTED

[oblique nexus]

You have an additional dash saved for the second.
The third can be weakened with one normal heavy-swinging revved attack, killed on the second or third.
And your allies shouldn't be twiddling their thumbs...

[radiant nacelle]

Dear god we've come full circle

So what you're saying is

[vestal pine]

does it work if unarmored damage is like 70%?

[radiant nacelle]

That revolver isn't good for killing crushers and I should let my team assist?

🎉

[gusty orbit]

I didn't think the ranged rending was unintended as the patch notes said, and it was always there and acknowledged, so I wouldn't know

[vestal pine]

revolver sucks at crusher killing and my team is dead

[oblique nexus]

???

I'm saying Crushers can be oneshot with a revved and rush-buffed attack.
And that being able to oneshot a Crusher, even if only two in a burst, is a pretty decent anti-crusher "build".

Especially since the Zealot's rush ability recharges fairly quickly and can be used sooner with the critical-cooldown-reduction.
And it ain't like you can't rip them apart with the non-buffed heavy Eviscerator, either... Just takes 1-2 moar hits.

[gusty orbit]

Just bring back the old revolver that 2 shot crushers without any effort

[radiant nacelle]

I think we've gotten off the rails or I missed something

[gusty orbit]

Not that it isn't the most overused weapon in the game already🤪

[radiant nacelle]

I'm not asking how to deal with crushers

[vestal pine]

[radiant nacelle]

Im saying building a revolver to deal with killing crushers is silly

[oblique nexus]

I thonk'd we were

[spare dome]

crusher? i hardly know her

[radiant nacelle]

And I don't believe it's the best revolver out there

[vestal pine]

how to deal with crushers when using catachan sword
step 1: parry
step 999: parry

[radiant nacelle]

This is mostly a rhetorical response to the person I quoted

[oblique nexus]

Oh, agreed. It's a great precision weapon, but like... It's not the most efficient nor swift Crusher-killer among ranged options.
And building around it entirely is kinda whack for most classes, let alone a Veteran whom can opt for far more deadly weaponry exclusive to them.

[gusty orbit]

Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit

[spare dome]

step 2: dont dodge while the parry is active goddamn it you did it again

[oblique nexus]

Good habits die hard

[vestal pine]

step 3: parry, but some mob hits you early

[misty nova]

[gusty orbit]

I'm sometimes baffled by how little veterans use the godlike plasma cancer emitter bomb

[silk sail]

I saw someone on the forums complain that their evis doesn't one shot with this trick anymore, so it got half fixed I guess

[vestal pine]

evi just kills tho?

[misty nova]

It's embarrassing the amount of times a random mob took my parry out right as I eat an overhead

[silk sail]

probably just a bad roll

[gusty orbit]

I'd have to see myself, I don't trust forum people because they usually do weird stuff

[vestal pine]

you cant say this when theres like 3 crusher killing guns in the generic ranged pool

[oblique nexus]

I'm more baffled by how many are braindead tap-fire plasmers.
Like. Yes, it instagibs regular units and mid-sized specials...
But they severely underutilize the charged shots on larger foes and it makes my head hurt to watch them wastefully tap-fire it over and over into Elites.

[fleet zealot]

no

[vestal pine]

because chargeshot is useless?

[oblique nexus]

It's not tho'. xD

[vestal pine]

it is

uses more ammo for less damage

🤡

[fleet zealot]

charge shot isn't useful lol

[oblique nexus]

It pushes the damage over the breakpoint to oneshot the Elites, bro.

[gusty orbit]

I never use charged shots and 90% of times I make the map a walking simulator for others so xd

[fleet zealot]

it's more ammof or less damage

[fleet zealot]

so does vet talents

like even squad leader damage bonuses

will push uncharged plasma shot to BPs

[vestal pine]

path has a good vet build that makes every oneshot build for non-ogryns and 2shot for reaper, 3shot for crusher

[oblique nexus]

Vet' talents have cooldowns.
And the Vet' has passives that recover ammo.

Using it so neurotically and sparingly is silly.

You're trading raw ammo-use efficiency for TIME which in many situations is sub-optimal.

[fleet zealot]

rending only affects armor and unarmored and infested aren't armor types technically or whatever

[vestal pine]

maniac is armor?

[fleet zealot]

ahh yes cooldowns like increased elite damage

[fleet zealot]

by the code, yes

[gusty orbit]

Yeah

[vestal pine]

or more ogryn damage

[gusty orbit]

Rending helps with maniac too

[vestal pine]

or long ranged shots get more damage

[radiant nacelle]

There is no armour in darktide

[fleet zealot]

unyielding is also an armor

[radiant nacelle]

Just enemy types

Flak is a type

Unarmoured is a type

[fleet zealot]

for the sake of the pedantic conversation

[radiant nacelle]

Maniac is a type

[fleet zealot]

unarmored and infested do not get benefits from rending

okay

[radiant nacelle]

And rending only affects flak and carapace types

[fleet zealot]

shut ur pretty little mouth

[radiant nacelle]

Easier to brain that way

[fleet zealot]

and unyielding, and maniac

[gusty orbit]

Ah yes, discord semantics, lovely

[vestal pine]

[radiant nacelle]

Sure

[oblique nexus]

Technically there is both a type AND armor.
Boosts to damage apply against the enemy type, but the armor on enemies does change how your hits register their damage/penetration otherwise.

[vast basin]

Does rending affect void shields tho?

[vestal pine]

rate my shinty new saul

[fleet zealot]

no idea

[radiant nacelle]

Nah, check the breed sheet. Some enemies just have whacky multipliers for no reason

[gusty orbit]

I think so? If I remember correctly they are flak armor, don't ask why

[radiant nacelle]

Like flamers having .5 ranged on their hands just because

[oblique nexus]

i c

Definitely sounds like Fatshark logic.

[oblique nexus]

Not bad, tho' I prefer the other shock maul simply due to aesthetics.
In testing I couldn't really feel they were any different by a significant margin.

[fleet zealot]

flak is the traitor captain itself

void shield is a unique armor type

[silk sail]

breed sheet denotes their base armor class, which is usually torso

[radiant nacelle]

Yeah...flamers are all maniac but only their hands have 50% ranged reduction. Not all body parts.

[silk sail]

other parts can calculate different armor types

[fleet zealot]

there is the standard void shield, weak to melee, resistance to range, and rhinda's voidshield which is net neutral (she's supposed to be weaker to range and stronger into melee but that just makes her standard)

[radiant nacelle]

They can

But multipliers aren't based on body parts or enemy type

[vestal pine]

every enemy gets a limb damage reduction p sure

[radiant nacelle]

It's arbitrary on a per rnemy basis

[radiant nacelle]

Nah just some

Reapers and flamers are great examples

But if you wanna get really weird check beast of nurgle body parts

[silk sail]

and per enemy there's still a per location basis

[radiant nacelle]

Richt

So there is no armour in darktide that is consistent by any measure

Just enemy types and body part multipliers

[ornate bone]

i did notice this with blades of faith not one shotting legs or arms on trappers/snipers i think

[radiant nacelle]

Just Google darktide enemy breed sheet

[silk sail]

what even is your definition of armor

[radiant nacelle]

You'll see it all laid out

[radiant nacelle]

There is no armour in darktide

Flak could be called goose feathers and it doesn't matter

It's just a name

[fleet zealot]

ok captain pedantic

we were talking about rendiing

for the sake of the rending conversation

[vestal pine]

rending is a myth created by zealots to make their characters buffed

[fleet zealot]

rending does no work on unarmored or infested, it does work on flak, maniac, unyielding and carapace

[gusty orbit]

True, Plato's cave but it's a rending cave

[radiant nacelle]

Visually to our brains flak and carapace are "armour". But there's no measurement in the game's code that cares what armour is and the game is not consistent on this point

[fleet zealot]

ok jaden smith

[ornate bone]

reddit chat

[radiant nacelle]

So it's easier to just not think of it that way

[fleet zealot]

this is why i'm moving to ogryn chat smh

[gusty orbit]

Don't you like discord fellas "discussing" semantics, c'mon, you gotta love it

[ornate bone]

fleeing t veteran chat t talk with sneaky cat

[radiant nacelle]

Back in my day zealot chat was the nerd chat darnit

What has happened to this holy place

[gusty orbit]

Going to quasimorph discord to avoid this bs

[vestal pine]

there no lacerate there

[fleet zealot]

back in your day i posted boykisser memes nerd

[fast tiger]

sneaky cat is a cool person

[silk sail]

idk about you but my darktide reddit feed has just been fs hatewanking

[fast tiger]

/cat

[fleet zealot]

yes

[fast tiger]

zealot chat back in the day was femboy chat idk what you’re talking about

[north sedge]

That's just how game communities work now

[fleet zealot]

it's been that way for a while, too many bad actors with multiple accounts buying upvotes/downvotes

[fast tiger]

this chat has always been full of degens

[fleet zealot]

some folk been caught multiple times

[misty nova]

It's pinned
#zealot-class message

[oblique nexus]

Zealots: "Armor is an illusion."

Ogryns: "ARMOR. IS. ARMOR."

[ornate bone]

real and true

[drowsy steppe]

it was me

I stole all the femboys

[fast tiger]

you can keep them as long as you continue to feed and water them

[oblique nexus]

GIVE THEM BACK YOU MONSTER

FEMBOIS ARE BELONG TO ZA WORLDO

[oak cargo]

anyone else get so nervous when they praise the god emperor that a little bit of wee comes out

[drowsy steppe]

sorry but they all belong to me now

[drowsy steppe]

huh

[oak cargo]

would you like me to repeat

[frosty herald]

Officer boles

[fleet zealot]

no

[oak cargo]

[misty nova]

You're praising the wrong emperor there

[drowsy steppe]

holy shit IIIVEG's back

[proper rose]

thoughts?

[slate notch]

Is Blood Redemption actually worth using it?

[oblique nexus]

Not terrible, but what are the perks and such?
Also, keep in mind that reload is gonna be important since it literally has two shots between full reloads.

You're gonna be reloading often, full or partial.

[keen thorn]

Does the bolt pistol compete with mk iia revolver on DPS?

[vestal pine]

no

[radiant nacelle]

They're the same kind role it seems to me

But I haven't ran bolt pistol so can't comment much

[proper rose]

I sold the other one I had, but it was about .2s between a 50% and and a 70% reload

[radiant nacelle]

But good for long range specials pot shots

[fast tiger]

think about it more like a sidegrade to the bolter

[proper rose]

I've been using one on my vet. Like a bolter it explodes so I've shot into groups and made them stagger. I'm not sure how useful that will be for your playstyle over precision damage.

[oblique nexus]

From wot I've seen, it's somewhere between the Bolter and precision Revolver in feel/function.

[proper rose]

It's basically a hand cannon, emphasis on the cannon bit.

[oblique nexus]

Can it full-auto when firing from the hip?

[fast tiger]

nope

[radiant nacelle]

No

[fast tiger]

Semi auto only

[oblique nexus]

Shame.

[proper rose]

sadly no. But they sell it's got recoil to justify it.

[slate notch]

Is just a bolter you can run with. Good? It's ok, fun I guess.

[oblique nexus]

IMO it's a bit iffy, since it has the irons and sway-feels of the Bolter... Which is shit for precision beyond mid-range.

[shy hull]

Is there any hope left for the flamer with the Fotf nerf ?

[fast tiger]

it feels better on vet with the suppression immunity talent

[radiant nacelle]

Flamer is still great wym

[fast tiger]

it’s a bit wobbly under fire otherwise

[shy hull]

Idk, flamer felt pretty underwhelming to me unless combined with the rending ult, it's still very good vs dense enemy horde but is it really Worth giving up on range ?

[keen thorn]

Flamer was good without Fotf. Only really needed it if you needed to delete the horde immediately.

[slate notch]

Imo, no. Not atm

[oblique nexus]

What, you mean the accidentally-made exploit that allowed you to halt a rush, aim and melt through every level of armor in a huge horde?
The absolutely broken and OP interaction that nobody felt was sane or balanced?

[radiant nacelle]

Could always run knife to help with losing your gun

[fast tiger]

chastise was the thing that let it deal with crushers

[north sedge]

Still will kill everything besidez crushers

[shy hull]

Yeah this one 😎

[radiant nacelle]

Still also melts bosses

[oblique nexus]

Yeah, nah. That shit was never intended. It took longer than expected for the devs to limit the ability to melee, but thank the gods, man.
Even without, the flamer is still a fantastic single-target tool and can handily melt hordes if at the expense of a bit moar ammo.
Mostly gotta choose when/where to spend it.

[shy hull]

True but it feels kinda shit to go right side of the skill tree just to get knifes with a weapon that doesn't really benefit from crits

[radiant nacelle]

You don't have to stay right

Just get knives and weave out

The talent police won't get you

[fast tiger]

I wish they’d walk back the ammo nerf on the flamer now that the chastise interaction is gone

[slate notch]

Wrong. The talent police always gets you

[shy hull]

It stayed 2 years in the game and people were heavily pointing it out as very weird, after all this time it's safe to say that even if it wasn't intended at first, it was definitely accepted as a part of the game from the team

[oblique nexus]

It doesn't feel like shit, it feels normal.
Getting too used to a meta based on exploits tends to do that to a person.

You've ruined your own perspective, expectations and hampered the development of your skills as a result.

[placid fiber]

Yeah I feel like with the chastise interaction being gone the flamer is now a lot weaker

[shy hull]

I don't need flamer to clear the game dude, you're just projecting a ton of shit on me rn

[radiant nacelle]

No

Not a lot weaker

No need to be dramatic

[oblique nexus]

The devs said long ago it wasn't intended. It was, expectedly, difficult to fix.

[radiant nacelle]

It will still do everything but crushers lmao

[placid fiber]

A decent chunk weaker anyway lol

[fleet zealot]

flamers issue is that.... it's just not fit for the "meta" not that it's bad

[fast tiger]

yeah I get what you’re saying DPW

[radiant nacelle]

Losing out on crusher murder is not way weaker

[slate notch]

Well, it is, even tho it wasn't intended to work that way, it is now weaker, that's a fact. Still usable tho.

[fleet zealot]

you lose alot from not having a long range option and precision fire

[radiant nacelle]

It's just brain chemicals being sad for things not being your perfect way

It's still fine lol

[fleet zealot]

i still think flamer hammer is gonna be a nice pair

[oblique nexus]

This. The exploit allowed it to ignore armor, which was the only thing that holds the flamer back since it does great damage and overpenetrates enemies. Against Carapace it was absolutely busted, but even without it still stacks burn DoT and melts.

[fast tiger]

i miss the flamer days of launch

[shy hull]

I just think flamer is very underwhelming and that this interaction with the ult's rending made it good : Without it I don't see the value of it

[fast tiger]

it will always feel weak compared to then for me

[placid fiber]

I was never really on team flamer, tbh

[fast tiger]

It had an excellent ammo economy to damage ratio at the beginning

like busted

[vestal pine]

...idk
only worked on 1 enemy(crushers since maulers take flak damage) and after the health buff it was aeugj

[radiant nacelle]

It's not underwhelming imo but maybe not just your sryle6

[radiant nacelle]

It's still a fine weapon

[oblique nexus]

It is by far the most efficient and potent tool for killing Unyielding enemies with huge pools of HP.
It cuts through hordes due to overpenetrating them.
It does amazing DPS since the direct flame hurts and the DoT stacks...

Its only weakness is that it does less DoT to Carapace and it lacks reach.
Tap the pooft of flame to extend said reach and stagger enemies so you can get closer, handy for staggering snipers and gunners.

It's incredibly good at killing bosses whilst indirectly handling hordes for your allies by crossing the flames between targets and the boss as they overpenetrate.

[placid fiber]

No! You are not my mother!

[vestal pine]

lacerate.

[ornate bone]

why the fuck would i ever use flamer when it does the same thing as hsword but doesnt give me toughness

[radiant nacelle]

Lol hsword

[vestal pine]

be ause its fadter than a hsword

[fast tiger]

not to nitpick but inspiring barrage?

[ornate bone]

i dont know talent names

[fast tiger]

it’s a blessing

[shy hull]

Unless there are something like 15 unyielding in a corridor, I'd rather bring a bolter or TH tbh

[vestal pine]

i think inspiring barage is goat on flamers

[fast tiger]

ammo consumption gives toughness back

like blaze away but for toughness

[ornate bone]

ok sure but still

[summer iron]

I think the same was a good interaction with showstopper it kills specialist faster than your teammates and more chance to trigger the explosion

[fast tiger]

i mean I get it though I don’t really want a horde clear ranged weapon

[fast tiger]

as a zealot my melee weapon should be doing that

[placid fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/sadcat-gif-25701972

[oblique nexus]

Literally every single boss's type is Unyielding
As are all the monstrousities. And the daemonhosts.

Void shield? UNYIELDING.

It's a literal boss-slaying tool due to this damage typing and the fact that it can overpenetrate said bosses to kill hordes and thus free up your allies' focus.

[shy hull]

Yeah with showstopper the dopamine was hitting hard

[ornate bone]

yeah p much

i go all in on melee buffs

hsword is a machine

[shy hull]

Tons of weapon are better than flamer for killing bosses dude

[radiant nacelle]

Showstopper doesn't work well with flamer imo

I just want overpressure fixed

[fast tiger]

preach

although I am team mk4 dclaw for a long time now

[radiant nacelle]

Chainsword life

[ornate bone]

anyone else love the special>heavy downwards combo into big dudes

[oblique nexus]

Name one weapon other than the flamer that overpenetrates targets infinitely within their effective range, in a broad swath, while adding a stacking DoT to every single enemy hit.

I'll wait.

[fleet zealot]

voidshield is voidshield

[fast tiger]

with the amount of rager spam in higher difficulties now dclaw parry fucks

[fleet zealot]

and it has a innate resistance to dots and ranged damage

[radiant nacelle]

Why do you want to dot instead of just kill them

[fast tiger]

I mean not to interject but this is an entirely different argument though isn’t it

[radiant nacelle]

Oh I thought we were talking about melee weapons nm

[oblique nexus]

Not so sure about that, my own experience has shown them to be vulnerable to anti-Unyielding.
Flamer and autopistol rip into it hard.

[shy hull]

Focusing only on a weapon strength and ignoring it's massive weaknesses is stupid, I could use the same logic to tell you how incredibly broken is the TH by ignoring everything it does poorly and just talking about the stealth one shot build

[gusty orbit]

hm

[shy hull]

Yeah flamer is amazing in a corridor with 20 unyielding and 400 mobs, great : It's awful in every other scenarios

[fast tiger]

looks like an excellent melee weapon!

[radiant nacelle]

I mean

There are lots of corridors in the game

But even still its reach is pretty good

[gusty orbit]

the real super shotgun

[radiant nacelle]

It can cover large rooms well

[sacred jay]

Flamer is very nice

[radiant nacelle]

And it's not like spinning your mouse is hard

[opaque island]

yall are being disingenous to say its awful in every other scenario, flamer still deletes hordes, that column of ragers, and will still kill crushers it just takes a whole tank now

[shy hull]

Sure, but you rarely need a flamer to get through them

[radiant nacelle]

It's okay to not like it but it's not bad

[sacred jay]

Especially with shroudfield and knife

[radiant nacelle]

Flamer does well in bad situations

[shy hull]

I often regret not taking a bolter or a revolver, I almost never regretted not taking a flamer

[radiant nacelle]

If you keep situations from getting bad it doesn't shine as much

But it's not bad

[oblique nexus]

Again, the flamer can:

• Efficiently kill Unyielding bosses and minibosses with stacking DoT
• Clear hordes around said bosses due to the overpenetrating clouds of fire it spews
• Kill hordes efficiently within its reach
• Kill single-targets with stacking DoT, less effective versus Maniac and Carapace tho' it CAN still slag them if you wanna waste a bit more ammo...
• Stagger with the tap-fired pooft of flame at a decent range

[gusty orbit]

flamer now not being able to scratch crushers was quite the last nail in the coffin it needed

[oblique nexus]

It's not a do it all tool, no weapon is.

[shy hull]

Come on, it's decent at best for boss killing

[radiant nacelle]

It's really not lmao

[oblique nexus]

But it does VERY well at what it can do.

[opaque island]

it still totally kills crushers idk what you're talking about

[shy hull]

I agree though, it does hit the boss AND the horde, which is massive for assassination missions notably

[gusty orbit]

im still wondering how it has never gotten buffed, it got nerfed to the ground back in the day because everyone used it and no one felt like using anything else, it's redundant know, and even worse this patch

[opaque island]

and no i would never use flamer for boss killing personally

[fast tiger]

tbh I’d like to see a meat grinder test how quickly it can kill a crusher

[fleet zealot]

captains are flak

[gusty orbit]

the flamer does like 10 damage against crushers, im more interested in knowing what are you on to think it kills them lmao

[radiant nacelle]

There are two people in this server

• Weapon must do everything ever and any tiny change and it's TRASH
• Fatshark made all weapons pretty equally strong in different ways use whatever bro lol

[opaque island]

i am literally going into the psykanium to show you

[fast tiger]

there are a bunch of people in here that have level takes about the flamer

[gusty orbit]

if you gonna use a red stim then it's obvious

[opaque island]

nope

just flamer

no tricks

[gusty orbit]

in game you don't have a red stim all the time

[shy hull]

"tiny change" ? it's -100% rending we're talking about

[oblique nexus]

"My flamethrower can't benefit from the exploit that lets it melt everything with startling ease anymore, it is now trash and useless."

[opaque island]

im not gonna say it does it fast, but to say it doesnt kill them at all, is a lie, and when you have 3 or 4 crushers its hurting them all at the same time

[fleet zealot]

100% rending that was never intended to be there and broke the balance of the game

[oblique nexus]

Correction:

Removal of an exploit that granted it +100% rending.
It has not had any innate 'rending' removed whatsoever.

[sacred jay]

I feel autopistol is only one that is equal to none in term of shiddyness

[fleet zealot]

burn and flamer contact has drastically reduced carapace ADMs,

unless you swap to uncanny knife and get stacks, you aren't gonna be killing them

[shy hull]

I wasn't using the flamer anyway, I was bringing it for the même showstopper from time to time : Can we have this conversation without assuming people criticize the game's balance just because they're bad ?

[fleet zealot]

would be interested in seeing the video

[fast tiger]

this happens whenever flamer is brought up I’ve noticed

[shy hull]

Imagine that, having an opinion on something without necessarily talking in bad faith about it

[fast tiger]

it’s a… hot topic

[oblique nexus]

"Flamer is so bad now guys, can't even use exploits on it anymore."
"I don't even like/use the flamer anyways, I just use it for the memes."

Bruh pick a lane, stop this cringe nonsense.

[vast basin]

It was not an exploit, it was intended. They even mention the mechanic specifically for flamer in patch 7

[shy hull]

I think this weapon is shit and never use it, I think it makes sense yes

[radiant nacelle]

I agree flamer is great but you don't need to go so hard bro.

[gusty orbit]

400 or so damage total onmy perfect flamer that has carapace damage, yeah, you dreamin

[opaque island]

show me the flamer

[oblique nexus]

The exploit I'm talking about is the use of the Zealot's rush ability to grant ranged weapons the effects of its rending.
And yes, it was an exploit, the devs stated it was not intentional early in the game.

They weren't sure whether to fix it nor how tho', it was reasonably difficult to figure out apparently.
Was mostly discourse between players. Devs were leaning towards fixing it, but it wasn't a simple fix.

[shy hull]

You're just making your own private movie at this point pal

[fast tiger]

Exhil posted the code yesterday they literally just changed less than a line of code

[oblique nexus]

Oh? I suppose I was uninformed then.

[fast tiger]

it went from something like “armor.pen” to “melee.rending”

[vast basin]

No, it was as not an exploit. I just told you a place where you can see they acknowledge it as an intended mechanic. Can you cite your source besides " the devs said it once trust me bro"

[opaque island]

having finally gotten in game and tested it, i concede my point. yea it only does like half the health of the crusher. but against groups it still is spreading that damage to EVERYTHING

to say its bad is still a lie

[fleet zealot]

it was not originally intended, it was a bug because they iddn't code a difference between melee and ranged rending, then they made it intended, then it was OP and game warping so they nerfed it

[harsh wren]

"flamers is good sometimes, so it isn't bad" Is a weak arguement to make once, making it the 8 times I just... lmao.

[shy hull]

The game can already give rending separately for your melee or ranged weapon, there was no way that changing it was complex

[gusty orbit]

not gonna discuss semantics with you or anyone here dude

[fleet zealot]

the bad part isn't "it can still melt human sized enemies" it's the oppurtunity cost of no longer having a proper ranged weapon

is it worth it now? yea throwing knives+ poor horde clear weapon i'd say

[oblique nexus]

Flamer, like every other gun, has its niche and things it does very well.
Having flaws or things it struggles to handle doesn't make it a bad gun; it makes it normal.

[fast walrus]

The only thing that stops me using flamer all the time is not trusting team mates to take out gunners

[gusty orbit]

and yeah, roughly that, did the rest of the testing, had to change the blessing because i forgot i had slapped flak, half my ammo for some crushers is still not a good trade

[shy hull]

The incomprehensible part is why it took them 2 years

[vast basin]

And where do they acknowledge that it was a bug first? Because I've looked through many blogs and patch notes and it's never said

[oblique nexus]

This, but with snipers and bombers.
Like... So soft and fragile, easily slain... And yet nobody seems to kill them in spite of the horrors wrought if ignored.

You'd think on higher difficulties they'd have the wit to prioritize and the skills to briefly make space and fire a shot or two, but nah.

[fast walrus]

snipers/bombers/<insert long ranged threat here>

[oak cargo]

i use the flamer and don't worry about gunners because funny flamey gun go woosh

[gusty orbit]

i wouldn't know, my guess is that most zealots were just used to it, and it was becoming kinda a staple mechanic

[south folio]

fatshark is slow in general so such is life

[shy hull]

I'm not saying that flamer shouldn't have flaws, i'm saying that its strength and flaws are improperly balanced, this making this weapon bad

[hushed knoll]

Hello Arco

[fast tiger]

i just don’t really know what the significance from the player perspective is if it was a bug or exploit or intended or not. that’s a developer concern. from the player perspective it was simply a mechanic to be utilized and it’s not present anymore and we should by able to discuss it in those terms without shit talking about it

[south folio]

hi stan

[gusty orbit]

when you get the zealot flamer voice lines it's dope

[hushed knoll]

What did you have for breakfast

[south folio]

haven't had breakfast yet

[harsh wren]

Which can all do the things you need a range weapon to do more and better, with MAYBE the exception of being entirely overwhelmed, which the flamer might be above average in a situation that most of the time you find yourself in it, it is because you have already messed up.

SOLID WEAPON, nerf justified xd.

[south folio]

flamer's weaknesses are p easily covered by just taking throwing knives

[shy hull]

Yeah it have great strengths : It also probably have the most massive flaws out of every ranged weapons, what is so hard to get here

[fast walrus]

The amount of players that just ignore ranged attackers and then die horribly to them is distressingly high

[opaque island]

a gunner or group of gunners gatting you down is one of the biggest threats, change my mind

[fast tiger]

this is entirely true but I don’t like throwing knives

[south folio]

and you can often run into ranged patrols and flame them down given its suppression and appreciable range, beyond which enemies suffer from inaccuracy and damage falloff

[gusty orbit]

people trying to defend what you cannot defend idk, i love flamers in any game, just gotta say the truth

[fast tiger]

stan what did you have for breakfast

[oblique nexus]

It's not bad. It literally only struggles against Carapace, Maniacs and foes beyond its reach.
It cuts through hordes, melts single-targets with stacking DoT and has fantastic damage against Unyielding; a type held by some of the most dangerous and beefy enemy units in the game aside from Ogryns in Carapace.

Flamer ain't bad, you are.

[south folio]

it has flaws, but i don't really think they're a big deal because they can be easily covered by build decisions

[harsh wren]

and are dealt with by most guns + not positioning awfully. The flamer isn't exceptional at dealing with gunner packs, sometimes it's borderline, useless at it.

[shy hull]

I don't mind if people disagree with me, but it's pretty lame when people try to warp what oi'm saying into "UUH I'M AN ENTILTED CHILD WHO ONLY WANT OP WEAPONS"

[south folio]

what i do think is flawed is looking at a weapon in isolation

[gusty orbit]

pretty common around here

[fleet zealot]

Which dont work at long range indoors with short ceilings and generally take a lot of effort to properly learn

[oblique nexus]

This. Struggling with Carapace and Maniacs? Try literally any chain weapon with the Zealot's rush.
Or hell, carry the Crusher Indignatus to bonk them to the floor.
Or a thunderhammer.

You can't expect one weapon to just do ALL THE THINGS.

[fast tiger]

sadly, true

zealot chat is the worst in that regard

although maybe psyker chat is worse I don’t go in that place

[oak cargo]

Ogryn chat: i like rock

[radiant nacelle]

Darktide weapons are like Pokemon

What you choose to use is a reflection of your likes and personality and the flaws you accept to live your best life

People disagreeing with that is basically "nuh uh red is the best colour and you're TRASH for thinking otherwise" because it hits too close to home

Just live your life lol. Flamer is not trash nor is it a godsend, nor is anyone saying your preference is bad.

[vast basin]

I still have yet to find anywhere the devs state that ranged rending was a bug first rather than a feature. I have found evidence to the contrary though

[fast walrus]

Like rock. Like pickaxe. Simple as.

[gusty orbit]

would be pretty good if people using flamers knew that hmm, that when you use a flamer you don't have 40-50 meters range, you gotta use your dash to cut distance and keep in the fray and bathing in blood

[fast tiger]

I don’t think it should be controversial to say flamer lost a key part of its usability with the chastise change and its loss of ability to take on groups of carapace, that should be inarguable

we can discuss whether or not the change should have happened but like it’s just a matter of fact that that affected the flamer’s usability to a tangible degree

[oblique nexus]

You're literally calling the flamer a bad weapon because it no longer has the potential via the Zealot's rush to outright ignore Caparace armor.

If that is your basis for it being bad, you're a shit player or an entitled one that can only enjoy the game when relying upon OP techniques... Which makes you bad at the game in its own way.

[south folio]

if there's no official sourcee, then it's mostly implied that it was a bug given that the game never distinguished between melee and ranged DR and whatnot

[shy hull]

Dealing with dense hrodes can be done with a flame nade, and msot zealot melee weapons really : Flamer is jsut decently better at doing that that the rest, but this difference in performances is not great enough to justify taking it, making it a bad weapon

[radiant nacelle]

Salty deep breaths are good for your health

[shy hull]

sorry for the typos i have dyslexia

[radiant nacelle]

No one is calling your life into question

[fast tiger]

Inb4 skill issue

[oblique nexus]

Same bro.
Shit sucks and seems to get worse the more I age.

[clear knot]

ppl in shambles over one change lol.

[south folio]

yeah and good thing that flame nades are on another slot and aren't a direct competitor

[vast basin]

Well I don't agree that it's implied when the mechanic is specifically mentioned in patch notes and balanced around

[south folio]

it's almost like you can make different builds with some CC source in some slot

[fast walrus]

Heck I run flamer, flame nades, Eviscerator. Because it's 40k as heck.

[oblique nexus]

I may talk shit, but I ain't mad. I feel a lot of folks on the net just kinda assume I'm angy when I call someone a shit gamer or such.

[harsh wren]

brother, i don't even use the weapon before they nerfed it, it was very mid before.

Weapon needed a buff before this. Idgaf a people use it. Wouldn't say anything in a mission for peoples weapon choices, use what you want I do not care.

I give a very small f when something under powered is being blindly championed as good actually.

[radiant nacelle]

Local gamer is confused when people assume the words that come out of their mouth is what they meant

If you don't want to be perceived as angry

[south folio]

there was also the disjunction where the buff was consumed on melee hits and not consumed on ranged attacks, instead just persisting for its 3 second duration

[radiant nacelle]

Don't call people shit gamers

[fast tiger]

tbh I don’t think it’s insane that a ranged weapon can trivialize hordes at the cost of ammo and does average-to-above-average at monstrosities

[oblique nexus]

Local forum member on Discord assumes mean words equal an angry user

[south folio]

it's just too wonky to be intentional imo

[fast tiger]

as a zealot my melee weapon can do that

[shy hull]

I mean, it's personal atatcks : Often the signs of someone triggered and trying to hurt someone's feeling rather than having an actual conversation
Not saying you were mad or anything, just stating that it can help getting rid of the uncessessary signs of agressivity in general

[south folio]

it's insane that it has infinite cleave and whatnot

[ember yew]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/808416108667076700/1246103508348829696/man.gif

[harsh wren]

speak to who are speaking to when you're going to complain about people, cause that ain't me.

[fast walrus]

The one that confuses me is people saying flamer is worthless because of psyker flame staff. I almost never see a psyker flame staff

[radiant nacelle]

Context is the internet's worst trait

Assume it'll be taken wrong

[gusty orbit]

did they make the bolter recoil more manageable or am i feeling it way better due to not having the crappy crosshair?

[oblique nexus]

Reliance upon an exploit-tier mechanic that's been removed, calling a gun that is objectively fantastic bad because that singular mechanic has been removed... That's a bad take, one only a shit gamer would have.

[radiant nacelle]

I didn't tag you once what the hell man

[fast tiger]

I use it a lot, with the right build and the dodge state on crit talent you basically can ignore ranged enemies

[fast walrus]

Think they just buffed the ammo on normal bolter

[ember yew]

New crosshairs are especially amazing on braced guns

[gusty orbit]

i almost only see flame staves in auric, so idk about that

[fast tiger]

ya they added 20 to reserves

[vast basin]

The flamer is not objectively fantastic, now that's delulu

[fast walrus]

not saying flame staff is bad, just I don't see it. I run it myself on occasion

[shy hull]

I can run any gear and clear auric damnation, but i think it's important for a game to give every options a proper reason to be used through game balance notably : My personal opinion is that flamer is low tier, ppl can disagree but that's why i almost never use it unless the map have tons of corridors

[oblique nexus]

Very fully aware. I get a metric crap-ton of folks that assume I'm mad like every other day because my tone and my words don't match, but the net is such that they make a tone in their own minds... And when they're being called shiddy gamerbros, the mind tends to conjure an outraged writer.

[shy hull]

Even if you can clear missions with a weapon, it doesn't make it as easy than doing it with another wepaon

[harsh wren]

yeah, you're just saying thing around a conversation that are tangental to things that people ACTUALLY said.

It's a lame way to not actually be a part of the conversation.

[fast tiger]

I think at a certain point people realize that trauma staff is insane and similar to purg staff so they go with the former

[buoyant pewter]

Oh my

Internet anger

[fast tiger]

yeah welcome to zealot chat

it’s not called calm and collected chat

[buoyant pewter]

What a nice chat idea

[fast walrus]

I'd argue that if the optimal solution is boring as heck it's not optimal for you. Enjoyment should be a factor as well

[radiant nacelle]

If you know that's the case it's on you for getting mad when the leopard eats your face

It's gonna do what it's gonna do

[south folio]

prob just that trauma offers stagger against ogryns which makes it pretty comfy and neuters them as a threat

[oblique nexus]

I can sit and belch a flamer at most bosses, clearing the horde alongside it.
I can melt through an oncoming horde.
I can scorch and slag anything other than an Ogryn Crusher with equal efficiency and ease.
I can pooft a flame cloud at enemies beyond the stream's reach to stagger and grant me the time to approach.

The only truly awful issue with using the flamer is your vulnerability to snipers...
And the rush-to-rend exploit didn't really lessen that risk.

[buoyant pewter]

Some of the ppl in here walk through puddles with socks on just so they can be mad about having wet feet.

[harsh wren]

i went purg after trauma, purg has damage on lock between the two, trauma is better if your team plays around it imo.

[shy hull]

i mean maybve it's a skill issue on my part, but when we get in a large r(oom with 30 gunners, it jsut feel ike the worst weapon in the game atm

[radiant nacelle]

I apologize officer I didn't see your conversation police badge in a discord channel on the Internet about video games

[fast tiger]

i think a key factor for trauma as well between it and purg is that it’s much harder to get a usable trauma staff roll

[gusty orbit]

i've seen most psykers with fire, and most high level psykers with trauma, i think that speaks for itself

[fleet zealot]

idk whose side to be on

shadup

[buoyant pewter]

No one’s

Everyone is wrong

[harsh wren]

some ppl come in here to project on people they don't know instead of say anything about the class the room is dedicated to discussing.

Id rather have 20 mad people talking about the zealot than this passive aggressive weirdness 3.5 of ya'll doin rn.

[oblique nexus]

I suspect it's a matter of playstyle, possibly lacking a melee to handle the threats you need or that the melee weapons to do so just don't feel comfortable in your hands. If Thunderhammer and other heavy weapons are tough for you to use, try the Crusher Indignatus; it's not a oneshot tool like the Thunderhammy or the heavy Eviscerator, but it can stagger and floor most enemies with one heavy swing... Especially when empowered. Deals decent weakpoint damage, so heavy swing, light, repeat if you wanna de-brain foes.

The shove-whack combos ain't bad either. Following a shock-whack with a heavy overhead swing to the chest or head is VERY satisfying.

[fast tiger]

trauma trivializes everything that’s not a monstrosity it just requires more skill

and better rng lol

[radiant nacelle]

No one being passive aggressive

[nimble fiber]

[south folio]

my strat would just be to run into the center and trust in the flamer's suppression against ranged enemies

and also run inspiring barrage cuz it also has that blessing

[gusty orbit]

left click, left click, left click, change melee, profit

[nimble fiber]

hi arco

[south folio]

kill asraval

[frozen glen]

wat da hell

[drowsy steppe]

hi aeco

[frozen glen]

hes goin after asraval too

[nimble fiber]

damn

[fast tiger]

this just happens when flamer is brought up tbh

[south folio]

he literally started the crusade of me getting called a goose

[drowsy steppe]

oh did overpressure got fixed

[fast tiger]

sorry asraval I guess I gotta kill you now

[fast tiger]

noop

[oblique nexus]

Change your alias here to include goose. Own it.

[drowsy steppe]

sadge

[shy hull]

Oh dw i have a large range of wepaons i'm very efficient with, i just don't like weapons withg ridiculously specialized strengh and a shitload of problems to compensate like TH/Flamer

[frozen glen]

arco u will bake people alive

[vast basin]

Lol

[frozen glen]

i don wanna hear it

[nimble fiber]

I haven't called u a goose in a bit arco

[south folio]

though you started it

[oblique nexus]

Understandable. Generalist weaponry is popular in lore for a reason, after all.

[nimble fiber]

to be fair

u were quite silly and also a goose

[south folio]

flamer is pretty specialized, but at the same time, most of the important engagements happen up close

melee deathballs are a problem and flamer is going to knock out the non-ogryn enemies

[drowsy steppe]

aeco has been known to commit solicited war crimes

he DID NOT just followed orders

[south folio]

ranged enemies rarely push you and most maps do not have sections open enough to make them a threat that can't be easily positioned against

and if you want to rumble ranged enemies, you could trust in its range and take the inspiring barrage blessing for extra safety

play aggressively with it and you'll probably be a-ok with it

[frozen glen]

have a pocket plasma vet that shoots every single ranged chaff begging for ammo