zealot-class

[south folio]

we are at a stage of the game where it's fine to be strong with nerfs because player power level is high currently

[lusty turtle]

Not overly impressive but noticebly impactful and unique

[ornate bone]

Though I guess it also brings to question what's going to be a fun challenge and what's going to be a pain in the ass

[fleet zealot]

damnation and auric should be hard, but it should be balanced

[ornate bone]

I remember watching one or two modded difficulty videos for Vermintide and it was like

[fleet zealot]

targetting heresy is just weird because heresy is a notorious hell

[south folio]

and elite/special spam being the main challenge is poopoo

[ornate bone]

They basically stacked CC and blocks to fight as little as possible while going towards the boss

[fleet zealot]

woe, crusher bulwark pack upon yee

[south folio]

the gameplay of 10-20 ragers descending upon you from a doorway

[misty nova]

I did notice that my missions shortened by a couple minutes, but there's a shitton of variables....

[fleet zealot]

time to get your teams gear/build checked

[lusty turtle]

Shooters should be reworked to be deadly

[south folio]

(aforementioned frag grenades invalidating one of the main challenges currently)

[unique radish]

Balancing is honestly in a shit spot right now because elite spam is the only challenge, but player power is too high in many situations.

[ornate bone]

The elevator thing I saw was essentially foot knight spamming shield bash and sister spamming the thorn wall

[south folio]

did u know that they nerfed scab shooters

scab shooters no longer track you through a dodge

[sterile stone]

Fresh 30s going into auric maelstroms only to get molly wopped at the first engagement and rage quitting

[ornate bone]

And I realized it was something that crossed the line into being boring minmaxing

[fleet zealot]

they are deadly but you have to be caught out pretty bad for it

[lusty turtle]

Recent or old? Ive lost track of all the shooter nerfs

[spiral anvil]

They were and the game felt horrible

[fleet zealot]

but getting toughness broken and two gunners locked on your from separate directions is oof

[south folio]

so you no longer get hit outside of your i-frames if they're still shooting

[unique radish]

If you drop player power level without also touching spawns simultaneously, high-end gameplay is going to be genuinely unfun.

[south folio]

at least after patch 13

i know that scab shooters tracked you through dodges before that

[lusty turtle]

They are less dangerous than you think, they have horrific ranges drop off starting at like 5m

[sterile stone]

Had this happen before, literally had gunners lock me in place with the force push their guns do

[spiral anvil]

The delay between shooting and flash for shooters is already almost unreactable in damn

[south folio]

yeah and i am in full support of lowering # of elites/specials in exchange for making them more individually threatening

[fleet zealot]

tbf i did get sandwiched unknowingly

chaos spawn threw me into a crossfire situation

[spiral anvil]

Almost feels like they need another level between elite and bosses

[unique radish]

Only if we see a reduction in shooter spawns. Ranged enemies are largely pinpoint accurate unless you have your slide dodging down, so they should either be dangerous but few or many but relatively weak. I lean more towards dangerous but few because having a squad of traitor guard shooting at me behind a wall of melee fodder sounds more fun and cool.

[south folio]

though dodging is ridiculously strong and ranged enemies do not push you

and you can just retreat

[fleet zealot]

there is that one big door in manufactorum when you open and it's just the entire regiment on the other side

[south folio]

melee enemies are a threat because they do push you and you can't quite take cover from them

[lusty turtle]

You can also sprint or time dodges to avoid them. As long as that remains viable deadlier high dif shooters would be good

[sterile stone]

Plus some enemies that have some fucked melee lunges

[south folio]

also, sprinting with stamina giving i-frames to ranged attacks not in a frontal angle

[spiral anvil]

Most people just hide behind the stack of boxes or just beeline it into the other room that leads to high ground flanking

[south folio]

and they just nerfed ranged stuns for all ranged enemies

so you can just spam sprint slides and come out fine because you no longer get staggered out of sprints (w/ toughness)

whereas there was an inherent risk to spamming sprint-slides against ranged enemies before because you could be staggered before initiating a slide

and even then it was very safe because dodges are stupid

[fleet zealot]

i honestly think the smite EP buff was because of shield users

on psyker

[royal vortex]

less of them spawn than elites/specials in a hishock game

[spiral anvil]

EP smite buff actually shines most with shriek

[fleet zealot]

like dragging down the winrate

[royal vortex]

they also spawn in genuinely awful configurations that make no sense for dudes with guns

[fleet zealot]

yea EP smite already shined with shriek+ creeping flames

[spiral anvil]

You can actually kill full HP ragers now

[fleet zealot]

if you wanted to use shield you should go war charges

[south folio]

so,

1. ranged enemies don't push you, and you can always take cover from them
2. trash ranged enemies no longer have the ability to prevent non-TWBS classes from rushing them
3. you can ignore the damage of ranged enemies by just dodging
4. they must work through the entirety of your toughness before they can start working through health, and we are also living in an era of ungodly amounts of toughness regen

[fleet zealot]

I can kill entire mixed hordes short of ogryn sized enemies lol, my kill feed looks like a meme

[spiral anvil]

Do the doom thing and make everything a projectileb

[ornate bone]

It's a bit of a mixed bag

Getting staggered by essentially anything was fucking obnoxious

[misty nova]

I can finally let the smite psykers alone and focus on enemies outside their reach

[south folio]

though that was only while sprinting w/ toughness, and you're getting staggered w/o toughness anyways

[fleet zealot]

woe, you just get more shield smiters who spam smite on monsters

[cerulean moth]

I come back to zealot chat

and this ACRO FILTH

is stinking it up???

[south folio]

the recent patch only removed the stagger that shooters/stalkers inflict while you're sprinting w/ toughness

[ornate bone]

Acro Tshash

[misty nova]

I've already seen a couple of them

[south folio]

and now you can just run their asses with any class

[cerulean moth]

more like arco piss..bad.

Yeah.

[south folio]

ppsspssspspsps

[cerulean moth]

https://tenor.com/u5XYLnmN7b4.gif

[unique radish]

You can also block and push melee enemies, which you can't do against shooters. And cover isn't always available. Each type of enemy has their weaknesses, but ranged enemies become exponentially more dangerous as their numbers go up, while melee hordes can more or less be infinitely controlled so long as a disabler doesn't spawn. Like I said, IMO relatively small numbers of dangerous ranged enemies would probably be the best thematically and gameplay-wise.

[south folio]

prob should add some more ranged enemies

[cerulean moth]

m-more?

[coarse birch]

i do agree shootesr are probably a little weak rn, i dont want to make DT a cover shooter or anything but its pretty rare i care about them since they need to be spread out and i need to have no health

[cerulean moth]

https://tenor.com/bPKL7.gif

[coarse birch]

very few ranged elites doesnt help ye

[south folio]

but melee enemies also occupy your space, and enemies like maulers/ragers/crushers/bulwarks are not trivially dealt with blocking/pushing

[cerulean moth]

replace all shooters with stalkers

[coarse birch]

and shotgunners barely count cause they dont do anything

[fleet zealot]

pre nerf shotgunner ptsd

[cerulean moth]

Actually a simple solution would be to make it so shut gunners don't have a sound que anyomre.

This would make the game worse

but they would do more.

[south folio]

if you're ever forced to kite against a ranged patrol, that's also because a melee patrol is in the mix and attempting to fuck your shit up

if it's purely ranged enemies, you have all the time to just sit back and relax as long as you have a reliable form of toughness regen

[lusty turtle]

Wdym, they spawn in a block and feed the warp flame

[fleet zealot]

i've turned my pack to my team only for them to go down to a pre nerfed shotgunner pack

it was brutal

[coarse birch]

true

i think gunners being able to be set up before you aggro them would help

when they just stand in a group and dont aggro until you can kill them

it doesnt help

[south folio]

and ranged enemies also just don't deal a lot of damage if you just engage them at certain distances

[lusty turtle]

Im not saying put them back to exactly how they were. But i miss them being rarer and deadlier

[coarse birch]

as much as i like the chaos of DT i think the healthiest solution is less elites but they are more dangerous

[south folio]

and making ranged enemies move more

[rich tinsel]

Is the trench coat ferret guy still here

[unique radish]

Yeah, and that's where the potential balance nightmare lies. Ranged or melee patrols by themselves, not an enormous threat. Ranged and melee patrols at the same time, you have to pick one to deal with and the other can very easily fuck you up

[south folio]

cuz the fact that they move either slowly or are easily melee-locked (stalkers), or just sit in place and never push you (shooters/gunners) makes them poopoo

[lusty turtle]

Or less tbh, part of the issue is they dont keep good positions n shoot

[coarse birch]

wait a minute arco are you just coming up with excuses to use vraks 7 more

[rich tinsel]

I want it explained like I'm 5 why my build is shit so I can make a better one

[royal vortex]

i mean very simply they have no implementation of ranged enemies in ways that make logical sense for how they operate

[south folio]

sure, but if you're a full team, you can kite into another area and deal with the melee patrol first

[royal vortex]

shotgunners are cqb shock troop dudes who have the urge to form a congaline of ducklings that all run into the wheels of an oncoming bus

[south folio]

and also, the game does not spawn melee/ranged mixes often

the game just spams one type of enemies for a particular section

[royal vortex]

gunners stand out in the open having conversations with their friends

[coarse birch]

oh yeah mixed stuff too

idk why its 12 ragers at a time

[south folio]

oops all melee, and then oops all ranged

[coarse birch]

rather than 5 ragers 5 gunners

or something

[south folio]

you are barely getting meaningful melee + ranged engagements

enemy spawns is certainly something that the game has to work on

also, ranged enemies don't shoot you as much if melee units are around

[royal vortex]

the game doesn't punish you for stepping on a teammates toes hard enough

[south folio]

so there's that inherent mechanism

[coarse birch]

that +enemy spawns being predictable

[rich tinsel]

Guys why is ironhelm/flamer/martyrdom a shit build (I will listen but I won't stop using it)

[south folio]

like, the game already has some subtle mechanism to prevent the player from being steamrolled by certain enemy compositions, and ranged + melee units is one of the things that they accounted for

[royal vortex]

there's criminally little incentive to make sure you're dealing with different types of targets beyond killing specials

[south folio]

perhaps accounted for too much

if you go into the psykhanium and spawn some scab shooters and a mauler, you will notice that the scab shooters will not shoot you at all

[rich tinsel]

Which specials in particular

I mean I know snipers is the biggest one

[south folio]

so ranged enemies are just completely gimped currently

[rich tinsel]

I don't think anything else troubles me

[south folio]

p much all specials are a menace in some way if not dealt with

[coarse birch]

i would put snipers on the lower end of special priority honestly

[royal vortex]

i mean... all of them? like they're uniquely situated as the ones where you kill them or you have to play the "don't immediately lose" minigame

[coarse birch]

but like yeah all of them

[ornate bone]

There is the problem of special sniping

[south folio]

flamers are a fucking menace
bombers are a menace
trappers/hounds are a menace

[coarse birch]

trappers and dogs id put the highest because they can end a run the easiest

but the rest cause a lot of issue still

[rich tinsel]

The flamer puff shits on dogs

[royal vortex]

other enemies do not have buttons that can almost immediately kill you outside of overheads (but these enemies are very slow and way harder to get trolled by)

[rich tinsel]

Dogs are easy abyway

[ornate bone]

One of the reasons revolver is utterly goated is because you can pull it out and one-shot some random shitstain with massive cleave

And it loses little from being in a ranged slot because good players often know how to maneuver to get within melee range

[south folio]

i put mutants and snipers on the lower end of things because mutants can actually be a boon in certain situations and can also just be position-checked if you fail the dodge-check
and you can usually take cover against snipers (until you can't)

[ripe quest]

mrw jogging at an angle can singlehandedly shit on a lifetime worth of training

[ornate bone]

It also runs on consumable damage, while melee is infinite

[royal vortex]

mutants are probably the most infuriating because when they're your actual cause of death its something stupid like a crusher already being mid overhead windup

[south folio]

bombers/flamers just severely reduce the space that you can work with and also can just straight up kill you
trappers/flamers also straight up kill you and can incapacitate you through a wall of enemies

[rich tinsel]

Running t hammer almost just negates monstros too tho

[ornate bone]

You can essentially become a specialist killer by just getting one weapon

It's like Kruber picking the handgun 90% of times

[rich tinsel]

Not that they are top priority but I don't think it's any worse than charge Crucis zealots

[coarse birch]

yeah mutants just meme you on accident

[ornate bone]

Nothing says versatility like one-shotting disablers

[south folio]

so tragic

[coarse birch]

or they do not matter

(esp because they die to any melee weapon)

[south folio]

what 3x melee damage taken does to a mf

and also a lot of weapons dunking on maniac

[rich tinsel]

I'm coming from like almost 3k hours VT2 and I have maybe like 400 in Darktide

And I main IB

And WP

But I think the general consensus in Darktide is that killing better is always king in builds

[misty mason]

Makes sense with ranged enemies

[south folio]

yeah we've been living in the era of dps checks for a hot while
or having absurd stagger tools

[spiral anvil]

Isn't that mainly true in vt2 as well, although IB had niche in control due to talents and taunt

[ripe quest]

It's hard to argue for stagger when a good number of times that it's available it reduces damage output taking it, and hitting stagger BPs is either uneeded or just out of reach.

[rich tinsel]

Well not exactly like warrior priest doesn't even have a ranged weapon

I guess my question is right

[south folio]

or you have a singular weapon that provides all the stagger that you ever need (cough cough smite/trauma/crusher/frag grenades)

[rich tinsel]

In VT2 your teammates understand you have no ranged but that the warrior priest is packing big meat in other departments so it's fine other people will handle the gunners

Why does that reasoning not apply to Darktide too? Just an increase in total gunner guys?

[spiral anvil]

Are you suggesting trauma not being able to stagger crushers

[south folio]

the opposite

oh wait

i interpreted that wrong

[spiral anvil]

Understandable

[misty mason]

Because there is one gunner in vt

[south folio]

yeah we should kill trauma's stagger in some way

[rich tinsel]

Like on a D&D stat sheet I would be 16 str 16 con 8 everything else

[ripe quest]

A big problem is a good number of BiS options are Power, which buffs stagger, so like we get it for free on stuff that shouldn't get it at all. Makes it so the bar for CC weapon are outliers like Crusher w/ unlimited cleave AoE staggers and absurd cleave weapons because it has something it shouldn't.

[spiral anvil]

Make DT VT2 again

[rich tinsel]

But for DT builds people want like a 10 in every single stat

[fleet zealot]

yes

[misty mason]

Vs DT which has gunners shotgunners snipers reapers and ranged mooks

[spiral anvil]

Sienna's trauma was really kind of weak though I never used it

[coarse birch]

what do you mean i shouldnt get power for hitting a guy (playing the game)

[delicate shadow]

DTs gameplay and VT2s gameplay are pretty damn different on the details

[rich tinsel]

So what if I take the same build and just slot a revolver or kantrael?

It's pretty different but still similar enough. I mean I'm still clearing auric fine but I need to pick the brains of other zealots to understand

[spiral anvil]

After making rager attacks dodgeable, they should remove rager stagger from powerswords

[fleet zealot]

you don't need to go all 10 in dt

you just can't be 0 in something

[ripe quest]

It has good crowd clear iirc, I liked it/flamer/fireball when running crowbill.

There's also the smaller trauma but you put like 5 of them

which is really fun

[spiral anvil]

But yea it didn't have traumas ability to stagger CW

[rich tinsel]

It just seems so limiting for some builds to follow a meta like that

[misty mason]

Making rager attacks dodgeable is one of the best changes they've made imo

[ripe quest]

Well I mean that's what the crowbill was for

In my build, at least

[spiral anvil]

I meant to say DT trauma is overturned but yea

[misty mason]

Crowbill was so cracked on unchained at release

[rich tinsel]

Okay so my next question is

If I don't want to use knives or revolver

What ranged weapon do I use

[spiral anvil]

Then use powersword plasma

Peeee

[south folio]

p much all of them work similarly and very well

[misty mason]

What's your melee

[ripe quest]

Every melee weapon is cracked on unchained it's the fire zealot.

[rich tinsel]

Ironhelm

[south folio]

pick whatever flavor of ranged weapon that you like

[spiral anvil]

I want unchained in darktide 😤

[fleet zealot]

kanty

[south folio]

shredder autopistol is the only sad option that i can think of for zealot and even that works as just a stagger tool if you need it

[ripe quest]

What scriers should've been fr

[fleet zealot]

you have ironhelm, that's your horde clear

[misty mason]

Flamer bolter columnus or agri IAG, agri brauto

[rich tinsel]

Ya I have a 540 kanty that's what I was running before

[misty mason]

Kant shotty good too

[rich tinsel]

I think I got too used to psyker staff

I just leveled my psyker to 30 and I love running around puff puff cleaving

And I tried the same on zealot

[spiral anvil]

You need to abuse chastise more

[rich tinsel]

Like honestly it's a meme but it fucks I'm not lying

[spiral anvil]

Gives full invul to ranged upon activation

[rich tinsel]

I'm too addicted to chorus rn

I just run evisc on chastise build

Hold W

[spiral anvil]

It's decent, more so they nerfed ragers

[misty mason]

Are you gonna run chastise or chorus

[rich tinsel]

Chorus

My first build for auric was

[misty mason]

Maybe bolter then

[rich tinsel]

Crucis/kanty/stun

Chorus

[misty mason]

Actually you have a tham

So maybe a columnus iag

[spiral anvil]

Maybe Agri shotty

[misty mason]

I like the agri cause it cleaves

But people generally think columnus is better

[cerulean moth]

very much so

[rich tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-lonely-alone-chandler-bing-gif-22422379

Then I was trying Ironhelm/flamer/chorus and thought I was owning so I shared the build and they called me a stupid teenage girl for defending it

I'll never recover from this (until tomorrow when my even worse build emerges)

[misty mason]

Aw, well youre always welcome to post here and we'll call you a stupid teenage girl for any reason ❤️

[spiral anvil]

Thammer flamer can be nice but lacks reactive specialist play

Unless you take t.knives

[rich tinsel]

Okay so let me ask this bc there's no Darktide database w all this info for some fucking reason

[spiral anvil]

Yea

[rich tinsel]

Do different sources of flame damage stack or is it capped

Like if psyker has flame staff and I have flamer

[fleet zealot]

soulblaze and burn are two different statuses

[misty mason]

I think souldblaze might be separate but other fire sources should just be fire I would think

[rich tinsel]

But flame grenade and flamer are just burn and burn

[fleet zealot]

iirc, blessings and talents can have their own lower caps but i don't remember the hard caps

yea

[cerulean moth]

ur cap

[rich tinsel]

So why are all these other builds even running it

[misty mason]

YOU CAN HIDE YOUR BODIES, BUT NOT YOUR MINDS

[fleet zealot]

for thematic/they don't understand

[spiral anvil]

Flame grenade is not a real "status"

[fleet zealot]

they think melting+ melting= more melting when either one hits the cap, if the enemy even lives long enough

oh flame grenade applies stacks doesn't it

[spiral anvil]

It just deals damage to whatever is standing on it

[fleet zealot]

oops

🤷

[rich tinsel]

Okay wait wait

[spiral anvil]

No flame grenade does not apply burning stacks

[misty mason]

Cause situations where you need to drop a burn nade are very different to situations where you can afford to pull out a flamer and do a right click held spray

[rich tinsel]

Well that was the reasoning that made me take it

[spiral anvil]

Think of it more like a spiked floor

[rich tinsel]

If I can't pull the flamer I just literally light myself on fire

[spiral anvil]

They immediately stop taking damage once they step out of it

[livid mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/milkman-gif-18624969

[spiral anvil]

So you better hold them there

[rich tinsel]

But Gui you're saying if you toss a flame grenade and flame them it does work?

[spiral anvil]

Yea it's two different dots

[rich tinsel]

Im on Xbox so I can't download any mods to help with testing or anythint

[spiral anvil]

Probably super overkill but sure

[rich tinsel]

Well it owns like

[fleet zealot]

i'd still recomnend chastise/fury of the faithful

over chorus

[rich tinsel]

Packs of crushers

[fleet zealot]

cause it gives your damage armor pen, as long as you dont melee attack

[spiral anvil]

But key point is enemies stop taking damage from burn grenade once they step out

[fleet zealot]

for the buff duration

[rich tinsel]

I see so it's like literally a caltrops

[spiral anvil]

Yea it's not like l4d moltov where you throw at the source of heretics

[ivory marlin]

Guys there is a place next to my work thats gonna server 2 million scovill chicken

[spiral anvil]

Throw at your feet is better

[rich tinsel]

I have a chastise build too my chorus build is just my favorite one to run with

Solo queueing

[ivory marlin]

Youll need to sign a waiver for it

[rich tinsel]

Okay so what's the general consensus on best Chorus builds then?

[misty mason]

Ah man finishing my penances and being able to pick up fury chastise again felt like coming home

Rashad, revolver, paired with fury

Imo

[rich tinsel]

What is a Rashad I don't have that dlc

[fleet zealot]

best chorus builds is anything with crit cdr or backstab cdr, avoid martyrdom

[spiral anvil]

Axe

[misty mason]

It's a combat axe

[spiral anvil]

I recently built one for psyker it's great

[fleet zealot]

just remember not to overdo your chorus spam, if your team can't keep up in damage while you channel you have 0 outgoing dps yourself

[misty mason]

The rashad and the revolver both get more out of crits, crits gives CDR, cdr gives more chorus

Rashad is the best melee in the game atm imo

[rich tinsel]

Okay usually the fulcrum of my chorus builds have been

[misty mason]

Especially on zealot

[rich tinsel]

I don't use the crit cdr

I use restoring faith and the one above martyrdom where damage taken gives cooldown

[fleet zealot]

chorus loves cdr

NO

that one IS SHIT

[misty mason]

If youre running fury it is a required pick

[fleet zealot]

it's 1% hp for 1% cdr

it is not WORTH IT

[misty mason]

Damage one is the worst talent in the game

[spiral anvil]

That one is the worst

It's more martyrdom tax than anything

[fleet zealot]

martyrdom basically always goes chastise cause 2x charges means you don't need the cdr

[misty mason]

I'd take 5% health over that talent

[livid mulch]

i dont see the point of the book when you can just be killing shit instead of making groaners think about all of the times they jacked off before they caught the plague of nurgle

[fleet zealot]

it isn't cause you take +2 wounds instead xd

[rich tinsel]

But paired with restoring faith you heal back 1/4 of all the damage you take anyways

[spiral anvil]

I forgot how the tree looked like

[livid mulch]

its the smite psyker argument

[fleet zealot]

me neither, i think it should have a longer cd, pulse slower, but last longer and also just sit on your belt

[rich tinsel]

I'm just telling y'all where I was coming from not that it's the best

[fleet zealot]

it doesn't matter

125% cdr

for all your hp

[misty mason]

More chastise is always good

[spiral anvil]

Smite EP actually kills things, unlike chorus

[fleet zealot]

150% if you count holy revenant and restoring faith

that is one and a half cast

crit and backstab give you real cdr

[spiral anvil]

But chorus can edge bosses sooo

[fleet zealot]

yea and we are telling you

drop it

it's worse than dirt

[rich tinsel]

I just think chorus is the best oh shit button I've found

It's like well lemme just pulse us outta here

[spiral anvil]

You haven't played vet have you

[sterile stone]

Stealf

[rich tinsel]

Only psyker and zealot so far

Only ones maxed

[misty mason]

Chastise staggers enemies near you, let's you cover distance, increases attack speed, restores toughness, gives a guaranteed crit, has two charges and lowers armour DR

[spiral anvil]

Ah, VOC will utterly spoil you

[misty mason]

Chastise fucken rules

[rich tinsel]

I mean when you explain abilities like this it always sounds good

[livid mulch]

book should make every enemy in the radius explode if you channel all pulses

that would be sick

[spiral anvil]

As they should

[livid mulch]

they are overcome with shame and they detonate

[rich tinsel]

Chorus staggers and freezes all enemies in their tracks, gives your team complete invulnerability, and gives a 20% damage boost

[spiral anvil]

One variant should remove the stagger but turn you into a human time bomb

[undone pewter]

I ran VoC + plasma (pre buff) + chainsword and after they buffed both VoC and plasma its like "I gotta stop using this I'm becoming actively worse."

[rich tinsel]

See on paper I'm like yeah that sounds great

[livid mulch]

voc made me such a shit player

its too fucking easy

[rich tinsel]

And everyone is like nah chorus is shit 😭

[misty mason]

Chorus isn't shit

[spiral anvil]

Anything happening? Press F
Nothing happening? Press F

[misty mason]

Chastise is just fucken good

[spiral anvil]

Truly the best skill

[undone pewter]

Goated

You can use marksmans focus which is good and infiltrate which is

Fjne

I guess

[rich tinsel]

I just think I'm trying to fill a role that doesn't really exist in Darktide

[livid mulch]

chorus will occasionally save your run but chastise is more consistently useful

[rich tinsel]

What about like full tank ogryn is it good

[undone pewter]

Chorus is a kinda like breather really

But it looses its benefit if you're on your own

[misty mason]

All ogryns are tanks

[livid mulch]

support doesnt really exist in this game

[ornate bone]

Chorus is a personal miff of mine

[rich tinsel]

It's 6 seconds to reposition w increased damage and overcharged toughness

[misty mason]

Don't need to specialise into tanking, but you can

[spiral anvil]

Chorus is useful if you have a team of crazy dps gunkers or ranged vets

[ornate bone]

It stops everything you're doing so you can depend on other people to do what you want

[livid mulch]

you support by optimizing to kill shit that would otherwise kill your glue eating teammates

[rich tinsel]

Support players like.. "yeah?"

[ornate bone]

Support is a meme

Better to make a self-sufficient build that has some stuff sprinkled in to help allies

[fleet zealot]

exactly

the best support in darktide si just killing everything before it can become a threat

and hoping your team does the same

[rich tinsel]

But then that's how every build becomes cookie cutter "this does top DPS" no?

[fleet zealot]

not exactly

utility is good

but if you go too hard in it, you are basically anchoring yourself down

[livid mulch]

yeah but everyone kills shit in a different way

[ornate bone]

Well, top DPS is a debatable thing

[fleet zealot]

In darktide, support stuff is mediocre player boosting

[livid mulch]

plasma gun veteran shoots through walls

[ornate bone]

You need to kill well, not necessarily kill fast

[fleet zealot]

For great players, they don't need support, it's just a cushion for them

[livid mulch]

zealot kites hordes and continually knocks them over

[undone pewter]

I still think the VoC buff to +100 was the funniest buff ever though lmfao

[fleet zealot]

for bad players, you will get slowly ground down and overwhelmed

since you don't have the necessary damage and your teammates suck

[ornate bone]

One thing that I can say about support as well is that randoms don't play expecting someone to come with some kind of support build

[fleet zealot]

basically, supporting helps mediocre teammates who are alright at the game but the extra buffer helps them clear

[ornate bone]

Pugging is having a worst case scenario build with you all the time

[undone pewter]

Like it's on a 30 second cooldown +100 and full toughness with cooldown reducing skills what were you cooking

[fleet zealot]

why play smite shield+ full supportive stuff

[rich tinsel]

Most of the people I solo queue with are mediocre anyways

[ornate bone]

Which is part of why revolver is so fucking insane

[spare talon]

i want to play darktide cuz im 15 penance away from 4500
but i have to make final revisions to a presentation im giving in less than 12 hours

[ornate bone]

You never need to worry about specials with revolver

[fleet zealot]

when you can go venting smite EP

[ornate bone]

You're self-sufficient against them all the way through by just equipping one ranged weapon

[fleet zealot]

and just, clear the room

[undone pewter]

If you think about it getting it done means more time to play darktide. But do it properly you don't want it on your mind while you're killing heretics

[livid mulch]

people who hold smite on hordes and shit make me murderously angry dog

[misty mason]

Chat gpt do this bullshit for me pls

[rich tinsel]

But the gun is kinda tiny though

I need like a dirty harry revolver and I'm in

[fleet zealot]

well, now it is viable with EP vent flames

[ornate bone]

People could play expecting someone else to snipe specials, but then what if it's a party of 4 people who expected someone else to carry the weight?

[fleet zealot]

hell it was viable before the patch, now a psyker can just melt mix hordes

[misty mason]

And then laugh as GPT fucken butchers your numbers

[livid mulch]

does it actually do damage now

[ornate bone]

Hell, what if one person is carrying the weight and gets trapped into the shittiest position possible?

[fleet zealot]

EP, yes,

EP/soulcharges both did damage before the buff if you just stacking venting shriek +soulblaze talents

[ornate bone]

The game allows the player to turn into a scary jack of all trades and they need to capitalize on that

[fleet zealot]

but fatshark buffed EP smtie

now it makes ridic killfeeds

in mixed hordes

anything smaller than an ogryn is free kills

[ornate bone]

It unfortunately means a lot of items are just straight up worse for that metric, like weapons that can't deal with carapace well, or weapons that don't cleave well, or whatever

[undone pewter]

The big thing about support builds is they exist to help correct mistakes.
In a perfect world that doesn't happen but we're not in a perfect world.

[ornate bone]

But you don't need support builds

You need a DPS build with support sprinkled in

[rich tinsel]

I mean that's still what it is though

There is no pure support

It's a killing game

[fleet zealot]

there are people that try

[rich tinsel]

Well I'm not saying do that

When I say "support" it's more just like

I'm tankier than usual and have chorus

[fleet zealot]

and that's why we steer people away from it, at it's core, dartkide is an aggressive game that works best with 4 independent killing machines having eachother's backs

and not like VT2 where you have the no ranged classes

[ornate bone]

I hammer on it a lot because there really are people who try to build pure support

[rich tinsel]

But VT2 the no ranged classes only work bc your other guys have your back

[ornate bone]

It's the same kind of person that just spams smite literally everywhere and goes "omg wtf my team ignored the 5 poxwalkers I was stunning for 2 minutes"

[fleet zealot]

and there is classes that wreck way more at range than even vet does imo

[rich tinsel]

Like I'm not switching off chorus I'm trying to find out

[undone pewter]

Real challenge. Grail knight, slayer, warrior priest. Kerrillian bot with the rapid fire bow.

[rich tinsel]

What is the most effective play style for what I'm trying to do

[fleet zealot]

i've played waystalker in this scenario

[rich tinsel]

I've run chastise I understand for dps chorus will never be better

[ornate bone]

People can't have the support mentality to the point they make a dead weight build full of little tidbits that nobody planned for

[spiral anvil]

I'm still miffed they didn't add a dual ranged career smhmh

[fleet zealot]

i uhh, got a few moonfire arrows in the back of my team, tbf the dwarf leaped into the enemy I was shooting at

[ornate bone]

Chorus is a really good tool, that's for sure

[rich tinsel]

I don't want to be the zealot zipping around solo, I want to be the one just holding the choke

[fleet zealot]

"you can carry the game without damage or kills, just skill" steam forums 2024

[fleet zealot]

i mean that's exactly what I am

i take martyrdom, i tank up, I have my chain axe

[ornate bone]

I don't like it because it's downtime for me, but chorus is one of the strongest skills in the game

[fleet zealot]

and i'm just the fuckign wrecking ball for my team

quickswap to my ranged for special/elite picks

[undone pewter]

See you're a human (or... ferrets maybe) that's an innate advantage. Give it to the bot and it might be genuinely impossible ahhaha

[ornate bone]

I can't say it's better or worse than chastise because they fulfill two different niches, but I'll take any player that can use either well

[fair igloo]

You don't have to be a zealot zipping around solo
You can be the zealot zipping around the area ur team is at killing everything :)

[cerulean moth]

but loner

[rich tinsel]

Yeah I'm doing that I just pop chorus for oh shit

Or if teammate down

Or if surprise Crusher pack

They should just change it to work like WP shields

So you can still attack

[ivory marlin]

Gamers

[fleet zealot]

yea, people also confuse runnign solo with running to pick off targets

[ivory marlin]

I need 2 million scovill chicken in my body now

[fleet zealot]

as long as the loner zealot stays in line of sight and reasonable distance, it's okay

[rich tinsel]

Bro there are truly crazed zealots in these streets

[fair igloo]

I really like chorus i just don't like how I'm forced to do absolutely nothing while using it

[rich tinsel]

Yeah the VT2 version is way stronger

Just throw on invulnerability bubble and smash

[fleet zealot]

i just dont' like chorus cause i'm forced to do nothing while doing it

[delicate shadow]

chorus is good, you can actually use it offensively lol

[fair igloo]

I guess if it didn't work like that tho it'd just be a stronger VOC so

[fleet zealot]

it's literally the worst support tool in the game

[undone pewter]

Bubble is one person though

[rich tinsel]

I didn't think it's the worst

[fleet zealot]

oh wwow sometimes i can ledge a boss

[royal vortex]

the problem with it is that in the vast majority of cases for the guy using it chastise is enough

while doing other stuff

[rich tinsel]

2 bubble talent actually busted

[undone pewter]

What's infiltrate then

[royal vortex]

you don't really have to put everything on its ass and have overshield when the stagger chastise provides gets you out of a lot of stupid situations

[undone pewter]

I like the heal personally

[delicate shadow]

chastise is straight up overpowered

[rich tinsel]

Okay hear me out

What if for chorus you could just drop the totem on the floor

[fair igloo]

overpowered... but FUN at least :D

[rich tinsel]

Is it S tier?

[undone pewter]

... yes?

A healing. Staggering. AoE.

[rich tinsel]

I'll email fatshark

[fleet zealot]

if it was a totem, or a slower pulsing aura effect, it would be OP

if you could do anything after pressing it

[undone pewter]

Throw it on any revive or rez it's free

[royal vortex]

it's very strange because it i don't think it would exist the way it does if it was made after the other 2 ults

[cerulean moth]

bring it back to giving full toughness

right NOW

[rich tinsel]

Is there a point to going stealth build while chastise exists?

[cerulean moth]

ye

[delicate shadow]

but chorus is actually good, people sleeping on it just use it at shit times

[royal vortex]

same with exe stance but not for the reason people like to say

[delicate shadow]

chastise you can pretty much just spam all day without a single braincell

[undone pewter]

Yes the damage buff and innate advantage of going invisible

[rich tinsel]

I'm in this group Ive been trying to plead my case

[ornate bone]

That is true

But there's the case of it not being enough for the team

[delicate shadow]

definitely tru

[royal vortex]

chastise has like a million minor utilities that depend on your weapon setup (and if you're using blazing piety enough)

[fleet zealot]

hammer, knife mostly

[royal vortex]

the charge's value scales the slower your weapon is

[fleet zealot]

chain weapons can't use stealth at all

[rich tinsel]

Hammer chastise so sexy tho

[ripe quest]

I prefer rewinding time myself, mostly to stroke my ego whenever my teammates thank me for using it on them post-Chaos Warrior.

[ornate bone]

A good chastise user is terrifying, but sometimes they can't halt the entire room for that revive

[undone pewter]

You understand

[ornate bone]

They likely can clear it fast, but sometimes you don't need fast, you need it now

[royal vortex]

i don't think there's an aoe stun large enough at this point in the game to secure a solo revive

[rich tinsel]

2 bubble is just a 100% guaranteed revive is why I take jt

[ripe quest]

stun grenades

kek

[rich tinsel]

Plus if you have any other melee career with you then you guys just own

[royal vortex]

but nobody ends up doing this, i've had a ton of scenarios where something appears from fuckin offscreen and forces me off a revive anyways and its like i shouldve never bothered

[undone pewter]

I'm gonna be honest I cannot relate to that

[rich tinsel]

I think chorus can be used offensively really well too though if your team has a firing brain cylinder

[royal vortex]

a bunch of sections in maps have like 80 meter long sightlines (at the longest extent) that maps it super annoying if someone goes down in a bad spot

and overshield doesn't stop a sniper shot literally pushing you out of the revive radius and therefore canceling it

[rich tinsel]

Like just chorusing groups across full rooms no problem is still pretty good

[undone pewter]

Ah fair enough there I thought you meant more new melee units running in

[rich tinsel]

I've been using it to stunlock groups to back off and charge the flamer then let it rip

With 20% extra damage

But if you have a smite psyker on your team you feel pretty useless

[fleet zealot]

it's really not that good when you are zealot and one of the best melee munchers in the game

[royal vortex]

smite literally just invalidates any lower form of CC which is god awful design

[undone pewter]

Honestly it's really hard to make a build thats just bad in this game (under the assumption you're using orange weapons that aren't low level on purpose and stuff like that)
The game is hard yes but it'd mechanically difficult not "build not good enough you lose" a lot of the time.

[rich tinsel]

I'll run in and pulse and the whole room is already being electrocuted so..

At least I'm boosting your damage.. or something..

[fleet zealot]

i simply do the strategy of letting them run to me and beating them senseless

[ripe quest]

2 bubble is cool but I've found I typically don't need the bubble when a friend needs the bubble, just kinda makes me play risky. Comet is just my goto w/ 2 bubble as a bonus in Chaos Wastes for me

[fleet zealot]

yea, it's mostly playstyle/skill

you can clear damnation in grey weapons

[undone pewter]

I've beat auric damn with a max suppression build

Like you can do almost all content with any build you want

[royal vortex]

in a lot of ways this comes down to the individual and the metric they're actually judging by

[fleet zealot]

it's just a trend

people who build their talents and gear badly, tend to be worse at the game skillwise at all

[undone pewter]

Yeah that's fair I just think this is a complex game and being the "best" is hard metric to decide :)

[royal vortex]

sometimes you will get into an argument with a dude about balance and he's like "it works for me" and then somewhere along the way you learn he's playing regular damnation

[fleet zealot]

this isn't a guarantee, people can abuse meta and suck ass

[rich tinsel]

I mean apparently I build like shit but I'm still just clearing

[fleet zealot]

before chain axe was buffed, I top dps'd a lobby by 400k for a total of 800k damage

[rich tinsel]

VT instincts just kick in even with a shit build 😭

[delicate shadow]

people tend to also have no fucking idea what they're talking about when it comes to this game ngl

[fleet zealot]

and 2 of the people had "the meta"

[royal vortex]

which is way less funny than the people who are actually delusional

and say shit like "my knife 6 is like a faster hsword"

"i 3 shot hordes"

60 second clip of fighting said horde

[rich tinsel]

I think Chorus is better than vet shout and taunt

[fleet zealot]

nah vet shout is strictly better

[royal vortex]

taunt is bad but shout is one of the best abilities in the game

[fleet zealot]

instant, free pickups if you talent into it,

[delicate shadow]

VoC is overpowered

[royal vortex]

the problem with taunt is there's a talent that also lets you take aggro with pushes on the class with the widest/strongest pushes and the extra damage is very... eh

[fleet zealot]

taunt is just a pathing tax and i've seen taunt ogryns do well but it's like shieldgryn, completely bipolar best or worst player

[delicate shadow]

like straight up it's busted

chorus is good but it's actually balanced which makes it inherently "not good" compared to pretty much any of the meta shit

[rich tinsel]

What's the other node that doesn't revive on shout

[royal vortex]

the duration on overshield even before you factor in cdr is a lil insane

[fleet zealot]

the CDR lmao

CDR needs anerf

across the board

[delicate shadow]

cdr skewing game balance is something I've been seething about for roughly uhhh

forever

[fleet zealot]

besides like

[undone pewter]

I'm gonna share this so I can be judged anyway lmfao
Monitorium sapper shovel
Graia mk4 braced auto gun
Executioners stance
Weapon specialist

Build 10 stacks with your horde clear weapon the switch and let 'er rip

[royal vortex]

dude if you play like

[fleet zealot]

martyrdoms hp cdr

[ripe quest]

Only the 1% have any clue what a finesse is and how it works.

[cerulean moth]

Chastise users when i kill htem

[fleet zealot]

i crave daeth!

[royal vortex]

6 stack warp charges, cdr aura, psykinetics aura psyker when you're in a fight you shriek every ~7s if you're just mashing the key

[rich tinsel]

Well it's clear that fatshark in some way wants a pseudo support build to be viable

[royal vortex]

which was really funny for getting the cdr aura penance

[cerulean moth]

ur funny

funny looking.

[rich tinsel]

I just think chorus needs different upgrade nodes

[delicate shadow]

I mean support builds exist, VoC+field improv is effectively a support build

[rich tinsel]

That actually change something

[undone pewter]

Honestly yeah it's upgrades are super boring

[rich tinsel]

5 pulses damage or 5 pulses toughness take your pick

[royal vortex]

the mandatory chorus upgrade should probably also just be put into chorus

[ripe quest]

Back w/ P13 Fatshark was talking about how they made like 6-8 intended builds and baked them into each tree, I'm mega curious to see those builds that they came up with.

[delicate shadow]

chorus upgrade nodes are a meme and I skip them entirely

[undone pewter]

Field improv my beloved

[royal vortex]

it should be like psyker shield

and have 2 diverging options that give you different playstyles

[cerulean moth]

and wall being the best choice

not a shill

[ripe quest]

Because with stuff like Psyker, I can kinda see it. With smth like Zealot and Ogryn though it feels like there are a gajillion venn diagrams just put into a pile and freely picked between.

[royal vortex]

ogryn effectively has 2 builds

[fleet zealot]

anyways have a ferret

[ripe quest]

Dumb with club and dumb with gun

[royal vortex]

i like vet's tree the most because it feels like you have actually distinctive playstyle talents

[fleet zealot]

yea but vet can still gun things down, and there is a lot of good damage bonuses sprinkled about

[delicate shadow]

in tide games that's what support is, you've got a lot of utility but still can pump out dps

like chorus zealot still shits out damage because of the other 99% of the tree

[ripe quest]

With how many options there are in a tree you'd be hard pressed to find an authentic 'support' build. Usually will just be a normal build with some stuff swapped out.

like yeah w/ what Aquila is saying. If you see a Chorus Zealot that mf could still be rocking Martyr w/ Duellist and 3 shotting bosses

[sterile stone]

This is weird

[fleet zealot]

some people hunt for it but yea, it's not often you see one

[sterile stone]

I'm use to mmo supports that trade damage for stuff like healing and buffs

[delicate shadow]

obvs CDR chastise spam is higher dps but like...that's just a fuckin' balance error

[fleet zealot]

eepy, overtakes me

[fleet zealot]

yea, mmos and hero shooters kinda ruined the term support

whenever i hear of it i think of mercy mains

[royal vortex]

playing knife has actually given me an appreciation for how stupid the setup is at completely mitigating certain weapon downsides

[undone pewter]

Yeah nothing like that here
Health is a resource so no getting it back with abilities.

For now.

[delicate shadow]

yea this is why "roles" is a kinda silly concept for tide games because it just doesn't apply the same way

[sterile stone]

Yeah

When I look at darktide

[royal vortex]

blazing piety knife drastically reduces the amount of time you have to spend kiting enemies while frontlining because chastise comes back so much quicker

[sterile stone]

Everything feels like some variant of dps

[royal vortex]

which is... one of the only knife downsides

[undone pewter]

Because it is reallt

[fleet zealot]

people who just want to shove a healing/boosting stick up someone backside and not do work themselves

[sterile stone]

And not anything different from that

[delicate shadow]

like if you ever see someone call themselves "the tank" or something, they're just approaching the game entirely wrong

[fleet zealot]

even tho in fps games, at least more realistic shooters, being a support means you bring ammo, or some utility but yuo still have your gun as a primary weapon

you could just repair a tank or call in something idk

[royal vortex]

"tank" shieldgryns on their way to take a bunch of pointless melee damage on one of the most staggering weapons in the game

[vivid hawk]

what's a good Shroudfield/Loner build? gotta get these past couple zealot penances done

[fleet zealot]

"You don't need damage or kills to carry, just skill" Steam Forums 2024

that is never going to get old

[undone pewter]

Hammer or knife depending on your fancy

[delicate shadow]

when shield first came out and every prick was just stitting in door ways holding alt-fire

god awful

[fleet zealot]

shield is one thing, there is some legit good shield mains out there that have outdamaged me before

but powermaul

oh dear god the maul

that's like a doom sign for your run

[spare talon]

this presentation is so ass
this is the final result of a years worth of research and im supposed to get a 6k dollars stipend for it but i 100% believe they aint givin me shit when they see this

[sterile stone]

I remember this old conversation we had

And it's true

[spare talon]

https://tenor.com/view/leon-kennedy-resident-evil-re4-dies-dies-from-cringe-gif-26283396

[royal vortex]

h1 block cancel

that's it

[sterile stone]

A true healer/buff dedicated class would break tide games

[royal vortex]

that's all u do

[undone pewter]

Remember when orgyn bleed was really good

[royal vortex]

it's so goddamn boring

[sterile stone]

Like they would trivialize all difficulties

[fleet zealot]

yea, but not falling into the trap is a good sign

[undone pewter]

Servo skull healing admech when

[royal vortex]

there was a dude in ogryn chat comparing crusher to shield

[spare talon]

was? as in its not anymore?
what are you talking about?

[royal vortex]

and their point was "you do stuff that breaks the 'canonical' moveset to get the move you want"

[rich tinsel]

Gonna theorycraft a new chorus build tonight guys thanks for all the tips

[royal vortex]

('canonical' meaning you don't do another heavy after a heavy or light after a light)

[sterile stone]

No

[rich tinsel]

I'll report back

[royal vortex]

which is just like

okay

yeah

[vivid hawk]

what's a good Ironhelm Thammer look like?

[royal vortex]

flak/unyielding and thrust + slaught

[spare talon]

slaughterer thrust
flak unyielding

[royal vortex]

headtaker on it is pretty pointless

[spare talon]

i dont use hammers lmaop

i just know that by heart

[sterile stone]

The only acceptable support this game would need is a LC vet following you around, and any time you shouted for healing he would say "Mouthy karker" and jab you with a healing stimm

[vivid hawk]

Ironhelm still the all-rounder, right?

[undone pewter]

Nah it used to be even better when patch 13 came out

[royal vortex]

if you have a mixed horde you will kill like 4 dudes before u hit an elite

[vivid hawk]

Crucis is the giga bonker?

[royal vortex]

yea

[spare talon]

i know but its still extremely EXTREMELY strong

[royal vortex]

ogryn's bleed is actually not super relevant anymore

[spare talon]

lots of bleed for literally doing nothing special and up to 60% dr for just playing the game

[royal vortex]

a lot of weapons have bm or hit 1/2 shot breakpoints on enemies

[undone pewter]

This is pretty solid it conveys the information well if you have a good script along side it. Isn't too dense and lists key points. If you're worried about visual interest I'd maybe change some font sizes but I still like it

[sterile stone]

Remember pre nerf fire ripper ogryns

Fun times

[royal vortex]

that was a bugfix but yeah

[vivid hawk]

there's an interaction with another trait for DR, but if you're going down that part of the tree, Crunch! might be better depending on the situation imo

[royal vortex]

pretty insane

[royal vortex]

yea

if you have ovenproof's scoreboard (shows bleed damage) on all my melee ogryn builds it is significantly lower than i expected from judging my gameplay

[undone pewter]

Commissar eyeing you with a laspistol and if you do anything wrong you die. It's supporting you playing better :)

[spare talon]

its literally just a bunch of free damage that you dont have to do anything special for, you can just have it alongside your main priorities in your build
which is great compared to bleed knife zealots who put it way more work for a fraction of the effect lmao

[vivid hawk]

Rippers need a little love imo, they were nerfed in addition to the PBB spicy bullet "bug" fix

so it compounded

and now they feel awful

[royal vortex]

i think the 5 is fine but the other 2 don't really have upsides

(and the kickback shouldn't really be competing with it for sniping, but that's a problem with how minimum pellet count works rn)

[spare talon]

its supposed to be 20 minutes long
also it looks like that for visual accessibility as this is an NSF funded research project

[vivid hawk]

Oggy bleed was stupidly funny when it could proc haymaker though

[royal vortex]

[delicate shadow]

remember fire bullets :)))))))))

[spare talon]

we had to actually remake it cuz it literally didnt look boring enough

[spare talon]

what....

[royal vortex]

i made skele very sad when i used fire ult on a daemonhost and killed it as it was taking me to hell

https://streamable.com/fgppbp

[sterile stone]

Bring back infinite cleave power swords

[undone pewter]

I still think it should be fine I wouldn't be too hard on your self make sure the script alongside it is good you'll be fine

[delicate shadow]

amazing

[undone pewter]

(I know stress does this to a motherfucker though. I once gave a 20 minute presentation on traffic lights lmfao)

[vivid hawk]

Spicy Bullet Achlys basically does to bosses what old spicy rippers did, you just don't get the insane amount of collateral kills from that ripper spread would give

[spare talon]

also doesnt help that i barely understand the contents cuz this is literal PhD level computational neuroscience and im an undergrad community college student lmao

[delicate shadow]

I had to give a lecture on educational theory

[spare talon]

hold on lemme grab a screenshot from one of the dissertations of a model we used for this

[delicate shadow]

and the worst part was knowing full well none of what I was saying would actually help anyone because it was all predicated on y'know, a functional school system

[undone pewter]

Supercharge brutal momentum

[sterile stone]

And no power cycler

[misty mason]

fuck me this penance takes forever

[sterile stone]

Who are you

[royal vortex]

it was so absurd you literally didn't have to see what you were shooting at or anything near it

[undone pewter]

You said infinite cleave you get one hit of infinite cleave

[royal vortex]

you could play the game with no monitor

[vivid hawk]

try it with a shovel or club, least that's what was suggested to me

[spare talon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1232485195735629896/20240423_191532.mp4?ex=662c43c9&is=662af249&hm=5c2637f971fa7ca2f056d36b40c45fac1e7b8186b2e17b1df2312f874b2a9d21&

[misty mason]

Yeah im shubbling

[royal vortex]

i did that one with shield

[spare talon]

i straight up afk macroed that one
and it still took 2 hours
fuck that one

[sterile stone]

Yeah but I need my multi hit infinite cleave back

It was fair and balanced

[undone pewter]

Bring back the infinite mk6 charged swings while we're at it

[royal vortex]

i want to know who made the fnp one require less kills when you could do it with any type of weapon and didnt have to build stacks up during every fight

[vivid hawk]

it pains me when people who clearly aren't good at the game have the A.S.S. title

[royal vortex]

auric exemplar is way more impressive imo

[vivid hawk]

it's why I am still using it

[royal vortex]

because it isn't the "highest tier" one so ppl aren't chasing it nearly as much

and requires more effort

[vivid hawk]

[undone pewter]

Nice

[sterile stone]

Brudder

[undone pewter]

I gotta grind that out soon I've been doing the mission and vet penances atm

[vivid hawk]

A.S.S.

[misty mason]

Now earn it with pugs

[delicate shadow]

I haven't completed a single penance because I haven't played since the update dropped

[spare talon]

the worst part about mine is i barely know anything about what we actually did
but i DO know the fact that our actual results mean nothing, i understand it enough to see that the model makes no fucking sense and so we're straight up just bullshitting for 20 minutes

[sterile stone]

Take this miniature Australian to the Sarlacc pit

[undone pewter]

I thought I'd do the same then the puzzles drew me in and I've been gaming again

[royal vortex]

i already got all the rewards from the i can't believe it's not a battlepass

(i play this game too much)

[misty mason]

go2bedge aquila

[sterile stone]

Mans grinded the entire pass out just to get the final reward

Regret

[vivid hawk]

The saddest part of A.S.S. is that even if you're not great at the game, you can just hop in and out of Maelstroms until you get a team that can carry you, and if you ever go down and it looks like you'll die, you just quit out or alt-f4 to keep your progress from resetting

[delicate shadow]

I was going to play, but then I realised that this isn't crafting changes and not enough balance changes to give me any interest

[misty mason]

Since youre so sleepy

[royal vortex]

the moebian sixth stuff looks good

[royal vortex]

the tox bomber is really fun

[sterile stone]

You can do this with the exemplar one aswell

[undone pewter]

Thats fair thankfully no fomo so you can always come back later

[sterile stone]

But once again like Josh said

No one cares which one is harder to do

[cerulean moth]

the mobien sith should have been in that kill teamm kit as their own unique model

[sterile stone]

Orange title > Purple title

[little thicket]

Everyone is alt-f4ing for auric storm survivor

[vivid hawk]

yeah, the only one that's really hard to cheese is the "No one goes down on Maelstrom"

[delicate shadow]

that's good, was worried it'd turn out shit

[sterile stone]

I had to channel my inner shepard and herd my team from straying off

[spare talon]

like when this is the artifically generated model we were given of seizure activity

and this is the results when we altered it to allow real data to be used in it
somethings clearly wrong

[undone pewter]

Real motherfucker though kill on sight tier enemt

[little thicket]

That one however isn’t very based on individual performance

[royal vortex]

it gives me a very moderate dose of optimism for future enemy additions

[vivid hawk]

tbf, that's fine given the theme of the penance name

[spare talon]

it definitely is one of the more threatening specialists honestly

[ripe quest]

They got nerfed? What happened to them? I didn't see a change in the patch notes.

[undone pewter]

I cannot really comment on this without knowing what its exactly a chart of here

[royal vortex]

it adds to the gameplay in a cool way (bugged rn to increase toughness regeneration which is bizarre)

[vivid hawk]

when FS fixed spicy bullets, they also took away a full mag of ammo as well as some other adjustments in the talents

[south folio]

the gas disabling highlights is pretty rad

[fleet zealot]

I think the tox bombs themselves need either a shorter duration or smaller area

[spare talon]

wait does it really

[undone pewter]

Welcome to a fun game of find the sniper

[misty mason]

It should be both, mostly shorter duration tho

[fleet zealot]

Right now it is just insane how much area a single gas nade fills

[spare talon]

i thought i just kept tagging the wrong spots

[royal vortex]

im so used to this game its hard to catch me off guard but the first time this happened to me in exe stance it made me feel fear

[misty mason]

It literally grinds hameplay to ahalt

[south folio]

exe stance user L

[fleet zealot]

And my team just runs ahead while im stuck on the other side

[sterile stone]

Shout

[fleet zealot]

But the gas modifier is great

[sterile stone]

Run through fart cloud

Disregard the unbathed

[fleet zealot]

Im playing my psyker

[south folio]

i noticed it when i was spamming ping and wondering why i wasn't seeing a highlight even though i heard the noise

[spare talon]

i think the gas visuals should be the actual size of the cloud and not like 3x the actual hitbox

[royal vortex]

the gas modifier is shit because you can't have hishock gas so i dont play it

[ripe quest]

Oh, that's it?

[royal vortex]

you can see the skull still i think

[fleet zealot]

If i was zealot id charge it

[sterile stone]

https://tenor.com/view/tedlasso-yikes-gif-27201348

[vivid hawk]

pretty much, but with the buffs to kickback, rippers feel left behind

[fleet zealot]

Rending talent and brittleness overall was nerfed iirc

[vivid hawk]

why take a ripper when a kickback is far more efficient?

[south folio]

oh no wonder
i have the skulls disabled

this is so sad

[royal vortex]

L

[fleet zealot]

The brittleness on ripper melee got hit

[ripe quest]

I'd imagine for the firerate and ammo.

[rich tinsel]

Do you guys like martyrdom or do you think the other keystones outclass?

[ripe quest]

oh what happened to that

[vivid hawk]

Kickback is more ammo efficient actually

[royal vortex]

can opener is identical to how its always been besides when it was bugged to apply w/o meleeing

[spare talon]

but its also sad that both can literally be gotten the same way
auric exemplar literally just takes a bit longer to get
there literally is no title that shows genuine skill right now and its so sad

[fleet zealot]

Literally last year, why take kickback when ripper exists

[fleet zealot]

Same thing happened to bolter i was told

[royal vortex]

nope

the stack count was adjusted

[vivid hawk]

ye ol' Monkey Paw method

[royal vortex]

it's still 40% at t4

[fleet zealot]

Ahh

[royal vortex]

this just didnt happen for any other brittleness blessing

which is really funny

[fleet zealot]

My fault for listening

To the wrong people

Im too stupid to be a zealot pro pls fatshark

Make a difficulty that filters me out

[royal vortex]

f

[vivid hawk]

You're not stupid, you're just suffering from a temporary decrease in intellectual capacity

[fleet zealot]

No it’s probably permanent

Head damage doesnt heal well

Blind, brain damaged, disabled, still averages 800k damage per game

[undone pewter]

Likes the original chainaxe

What else is going wrong

[rich tinsel]

Is SMG good?

[sterile stone]

These sound like debuffs you choose in PZ to get good traits

[fleet zealot]

Ok i never liked the original chainaxe

[undone pewter]

Yeah its okay

[fleet zealot]

I loved hating it

[rich tinsel]

I got like a 540 one off the contracts guy

[vivid hawk]

@royal vortex is it wrong that I haven't used my beloved Crusher in a while? Been having an affair with my eviscerators

[fleet zealot]

I cant list my good traits here sadly

[undone pewter]

Okay good you still may be saved

[royal vortex]

ive taken a break from it to use knife

[sterile stone]

https://tenor.com/view/speechless-nathan-fillion-castle-stumped-gif-5469000

[undone pewter]

I think that is my least favourite weapon in the game

[royal vortex]

funnily enough its harder to fight bulwarks with a crusher than it used to be and much easier for knife

[ripe quest]

Doesn't seem right, damage econ exists. It eating an ammo nerf wouldn't discount its damage.

[fleet zealot]

Old chainaxe i wanted it to be good so i played it and complained and used it so much

When the buffs came out

I became death, destroyer of heretics

[ripe quest]

yee those were good times

[fleet zealot]

They kinda fixed up mk4 but it was mostly numbers and not mechanics

Mk12 is just easier to use and a great entry point to chain axes

Mk4 is just quirky

[vivid hawk]

has to do with the min pellet and damage buffs the kickback got, you can vaporize a horde of poxwalkers and stagger the elites with a single shot, where as the rippers require more ammo and set up time

[undone pewter]

That light attack I hate it

[vivid hawk]

granted, once you are set up, you're sustained DPS with ripper will def be higher than a kickback

[fleet zealot]

Light spam for single target damage, heavy spam with push attacks weaved for aoe

Rev’d heavies for single target and stagger for less dps

[fleet zealot]

Cause you likely use the lights at the wrong time/situation

[vivid hawk]

love me mk4 chaxe

and while the mk12 is objectively good, I hate the sound of the light attacks

[fleet zealot]

It is best for monstros, and lone enemies

[undone pewter]

No you're right it still feels strange though

[vivid hawk]

sounds like a foam bat

[fleet zealot]

It used to be worse

The clubthrough used to be so bad on lights

[ripe quest]

I suppose you just answered your own question then.

[fleet zealot]

You’d get too much power, your lights would cleave through the enemy and do like 20% damage cause all of it was loaded into the shred

[spiral anvil]

Ripper does more boss dps

[vivid hawk]

don't remember asking a question, I forget loads

[ripe quest]

"why take a ripper when a kickback is far more efficient?"

[fleet zealot]

Mk4 chaxe is straight forward but also backward and upside down, it goes against basically every other weapon in the game

Then it spams heavies anyways

[vivid hawk]

ah, right, yeah... ripper just doesn't feel good compared to kickback in many areas

[fleet zealot]

Cant wait for variant number 3 fatshark

[ripe quest]

would be neat if they let the H1 PA combo have merit again. Just some situation where it makes sense to use.

[undone pewter]

Genuine question then is it a better vet or zealot weapon?

[rich tinsel]

@fleet zealot what about something like this

[fleet zealot]

Mk12 is easier and better on vet imo

[cerulean moth]

whatevers weakest is what im using and whatevers strongest is whoever i dislike is using

[sterile stone]

Hipster

[rich tinsel]

Ignore that one skill point out of line above chorus

[cerulean moth]

THAST RIGHT

[ripe quest]

Zealot has really high melee output, it'd naturally just be stronger on Zealot. Also helps that Zel has access to immo nades and Flamer if you want to super cover weaknesses.

[sterile stone]

Graia is got tier for veteran

[fleet zealot]

For zealot both are good, mk4 biggest advantage is that with punishment talent and ramped up with headtaker you can bonk out rager and mauler packs

Mk4 doesnt even have a horde clear weakness anymore i just run stuns for big ogryn packs

Or shitty spots full of shooters i cant rush

[royal vortex]

theres a funny mk12 chaxe bp you can hit on vet with i think no setup

which is a fully charged thrust heavy on a rager

(it required fire team when i tested it)

[fleet zealot]

Yee mk12 on vet is simple and kinda silly

[royal vortex]

(HUGE value)

i didnt use chaxe much on vet because the psword tier wheelchair dodges made me sad

[ripe quest]

It's comparatively very poor. Only better than XII Chaxe and XV Evis (and knife).

[undone pewter]

I really like the mk12

[fleet zealot]

Mk4 has a higher peak on zealot since mk12 will not reliably stagger enemies with lights even with punishment

[fleet zealot]

Damb

But some of those other weapons (ignoring bm/db weapons) cant heavy swing spam into 5 maulers and get away with it

So checkmate chaxethiests

[undone pewter]

Chainsword gang

[fleet zealot]

Its so fun when you are fully ramped up martyrdom

And you just see a pack of ragers and maulers coming

[cerulean moth]

buff marty dom

[fleet zealot]

And you just, keep heavy spamming

It doesnt need a buff lol

[cerulean moth]

Oh i know

I just want them to.

[fleet zealot]

It might even need a nerf once they nerf cdr

[cerulean moth]

They would never nerf my CDR

they could NEVER

[short dew]

Marty is smelly

[fleet zealot]

Fuck u right

[cerulean moth]

anyways zealot is weakest class next to ogryn

why nerf it

[fleet zealot]

Martyrdom is for chads who finished their 2 week homework the night before class

[ripe quest]

nerf all of them

every class

[fleet zealot]

The tension makes me play better

[ripe quest]

into the ground

[fleet zealot]

Besides martyrdoms cdr lol

That shit is ass

Even if everything else was nerfed

It would still be ass

[median steeple]

I love being close to death for most of the game and being more resilient for it

[ripe quest]

nerf everything and then get actually based ideas for builds slammed into the tree instead of the hotpot of V2 talents.

The key is to do it all at once so it looks like a huge rework and the fanbase doesn't get outraged.

[undone pewter]

I do miss temporary health though

[fleet zealot]

Lmao the little bit of outrage when HR was nerfed

I cant believe we had such weaklings in our midst

Wtf guys i dont have a full heal with my deathsave anymore? Class is shit and ruined

[undone pewter]

People get mad when things get nerfed in a pve game. I think it's dumb but whatever

[spiral anvil]

If you nerf one thing and buff another thing at least there's a give and take

It's just a sentiment that sounds profound but ignores any details

[fleet zealot]

Someone somewhere started the “pve games dont need nerfs” shit and they should be kicked in the shins

[spiral anvil]

Since when did parrots gain opposable thumbs

[fleet zealot]

Are you sure you dont want to nerf my boots now?

[delicate shadow]

holy rev nerf came at the same time that the skill trees did, which meant you could run holy rev+twbs at the same time along with all the powercreep of the skill tree nodes

so on the whole zealot got buffed

[rich tinsel]

Is until death/holy revenant a noob trap or good talent?

[fleet zealot]

Great talent

Not needed tho

Mostly best for martyrdom as well since the 25% heal is better for keeping your big bonuses

[spiral anvil]

Until death makes me feel like I'm playing zealot

[fleet zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/marcille-dungeon-meshi-anime-stupefy-mandara-gif-12032223019310150985

What my teammates see after i eat 3 crusher overheads during until death

[cerulean moth]

No...NO

NO GOD

https://tenor.com/jwcEKhqH0w7.gif

[undone pewter]

Lax of judgement there

[cerulean moth]

MY ZEALOT NERFS

NO MORE MAX TOUGHNESS

AH

MY CRITS

[hardy gull]

I swear you really are the must unlucky player

[undone pewter]

That's how I fucking feel when I jump instead of dodge (I'm not rebinding it(

[spare talon]

its good
last night i was the last alive, got dogged
right before i was at 1 hp from corruption a burster had just blown up on me, killing the dog leaving me at full corruption save for 1 hp left from until death which was all i needed, and i saved the game with it

[fleet zealot]

Yes, praise the god emperor fellows, why yes witch i feel perfectly fine

[cerulean moth]

ye but thats cause ur a NOOB who needed it in the first place

[south folio]

there's a mod to always prevent sideways/backwards dodges if you prefer to keep them on the same key

[cerulean moth]

ARCO

if u speak

[spare talon]

that wasnt me but yeah

[south folio]

shame

[cerulean moth]

GO BACK TO UR CHAT

[spare talon]

wdym

[south folio]

i'm a zealot main now

[cerulean moth]

wh-

why

[coarse birch]

I thought you were a vet main

[south folio]

oh wait i meant sideways/backwards jumps

[cerulean moth]

they were a psyker main

[coarse birch]

You intentionally swapped off zealot today

[cerulean moth]

archo is gaslighting

lying

[coarse birch]

Arcos psyker days are long over

[undone pewter]

Oh that's good I should get that one

[cerulean moth]

whatever it is