Well, I've only played a week of diff 9 automaton missions and got bored already.
#zealot-class
misty mason
Manor Lords tomorrow
misty mason
It does look really good
Shame they're sticking to their guns on the stupid new price
Probably wont get it because of that
misty mason
It and the previous one are like the only DLC im missing
livid siren
misty mason
It dun matter tho, cause Manor Lords will probably scratch the TW itch anyway
I usually prefer smaller battles anyway
hushed knoll
Homemade baked sausage alfredo skillet @lusty turtle
maiden path
said evis when its small as fuck
iron spade
there's always another option
Except for the fact that Total War Warhammer 3 isnt yet cracked
spare talon
I wish there were more impressive titles considering the two ones with any significance can be cheesed which lessens the significance of them
maiden path
unless we get a evis this large
misty mason
said evis when its small as fuck
Said its small as fuck when you couldn't pick it up irl
elfin steppe
Homemade baked sausage alfredo skillet <@94406045148917760>
where's the sauce
hushed knoll
where's the sauce
It’s under the crispy top
misty mason
Homemade baked sausage alfredo skillet <@94406045148917760>
wtf stan
that looks not bad
median steeple
Shame they're sticking to their guns on the stupid new price
it has a reduction of price and you can buy indiv lords for like $9
misty mason
Because I've met you
hushed knoll
median steeple
future DLCs will also be cheaper
spare talon
What about a title for twins hardmode with 0 downs across the team
median steeple
im suprised they didnt add a hard mode twins title
misty mason
<:peepoBedge:972931189851697173>
maiden path
evis should BE THIS BIG
frosty herald
in the lore the evis is that big
fleet zealot
joined a mission as it failed
fuck me
i should've grinded this penance out way earlier
misty mason
evis should BE THIS BIG
spare talon
im suprised they didnt add a hard mode twins title
I was really excited for grinding hard stuff for cool titles as a previous destiny no life but there being only one title with any significance that feels hollow is disappointing
maiden path
i need a zweihander sized evis
median steeple
how do I learn this power
spare talon
Any other titles are just "look how many hours I put into the game" and has 0 showcase of skill and prowess, just time invested
maiden path
if i cant cleave a bulwark in half with one swing this thing fucking sucks
frosty herald
i need a zweihander sized evis
what about power zweihander
maiden path
what about power zweihander
bawscialy just a normal evis
frosty herald
and it hit me before the sniper turned around
median steeple
https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/29s4gdqtzJdHuL/d1337dm5jmyZ?invite=cr-MSx0aVUsMTk0NjM5OTEyLA this whole game was buggy asf
elfin steppe
maiden path
we'l keep adding more outfits to the shop doe..................
median steeple
I hate and love that the lion looks like danse
frosty herald
i think its was done on purpose
maiden path
i cant be da only one who thinks ranged does a bit 2 much damag
i wouldnt mind ranged enemies if curios had 15+ ranged resistance
frosty herald
slide under enemy fire
proud scroll
is this worthless?
maiden path
martydom fucking blows
maiden path
is this worthless?
nah
hard nexus
maiden path
doesnt have to be a godroll to be useable
as long as its not fucking 50% across the board
hard nexus
https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/29rWhOFs-6AbpF/d1337Ho0gjQ...
@median steeple
median steeple
maiden path
i wish they'd add more weapons
proud scroll
doesnt have to be a godroll to be useable
at thhis point im just looking for max rolls or interesting other builds, cheers 🙂
maiden path
and not just redo's
of current ones
i want a fucking billhook
gimme a duel evis
anything that isnt just the same weapons we've had since forever with a new coat of animations
ripe quest
and the small evis as a dagger
Calling an Evis anything other than an Evis is bound to just cause confusion.
maiden path
Calling an Evis anything other than an Evis is bound to just cause confusion.
small evis 1 handed
big evis 2 handed
simple
ripe quest
small evis 1 handed
Chainsword*
maiden path
Chainsword*
tomato tomato
ivory marlin
maiden path
literally the same thing
median steeple
evis is a chainsword for space marines
ivory marlin
My screenshotting wasnt working
maiden path
'erm ok u guys use the exact same weapon as them but small, but u guys CANT call it a evis...'
ripe quest
literally the same thing
They are two functionally different weapons. One is more ST geared and the other has really good horde damage. One is a Chainsword and the other is an Eviscerator. It's literally labelled as such ingame.
spare talon
how do I learn this power
spare talon
man that was depressing to see
Psyker penances sucked to do
Not cuz they were bad
But cuz the game was out to take my balls with a rusty knife when I was doing them
misty mason
Psyker isn't too bad for me, except that I need venting shriek to do assail
median steeple
I was drained from doing the smite penance
I don't want to touch psyker
Ever again
median steeple
Rough day for dark tide
Did the fire instakill you?
I had that happen an hour ago
frosty herald
shot by a sniper then fire
spare talon
One I couldn't dodge cuz I was being pingponged by dog hitboxes that weren't even attacking me
frosty herald
ngl
if someone is at half downed and a tox grenade gets dropped im going to go ahead with the mission
drifting wolf
'erm ok u guys use the exact same weapon as them but small, but u guys CANT call...
miniviscerator
median steeple
I hate tox nades
nimble fiber
One I couldn't dodge cuz I was being pingponged by dog hitboxes that weren't eve...
thats the most annoying part about dogs tbh
they are ok when they target u, but if they dont want u
spare talon
if someone is at half downed and a tox grenade gets dropped im going to go ahead...
Depends on the class
If you have a method of toughness regen you can easily grab someone unharmed
Warp charge regen, bubble regen, natural peril quelling regen, ewew, post invis regen, vet elite kill regen, vet distance from enemies regen
The gas does nothing to you health as long as you have at least 1 toughness every time it ticks
frosty herald
i know
but once that toughnes breaks your not reviving anyone
and gas damage ramps up
misty mason
Toxic nades need their duration reduced
It's not that they're super dangerous, it's that they disrupt the flow of play so much
Especially if you get two at once
median steeple
They're huge and last forever
spare dome
give it another month
frosty herald
oh gas is very dangerous
misty mason
Or you're in a confined space and the gas fills the next two rooms
frosty herald
the damage starts small but very very quickly it goes up to 60 damage per tick
misty mason
So you just have to sit and wait and be bored for a minut3
frosty herald
but its hard to see the bombadier through the gas
frosty herald
i can hear the grenade very well
spare talon
but its hard to see the bombadier through the gas
That was one of the main points of it
ornate bone
just saw a shirtless zealot, am jealous
spare talon
Longer windup and no nade dropped during windup cuz the fact that the grenade is overall more dangerous despite less damage
royal vortex
most people still dont respond to his soundcue quickly
it almost sounds like a skaven
spare talon
it almost sounds like a skaven
I said he sounds like fregley from diary of a wimpy kid
nimble fiber
lol
misty mason
If they reduce the duration by like 20% and maybe the area by a bit I'd be fine with them
spare talon
The decay consumes wooaaAAAAAAOOOOooooohhhhh
frosty herald
THE ROT CONSUMES
sour oxide
whose in the shadows?! (imo best line)
frosty herald
THE FOG IS COMING
misty mason
It is genuinely quite funny when you get two tox bombers tho
Just never ending all encompassing tox gas
sour oxide
I feel like the tox bombers are even more trolly than the scab ones
frosty herald
Just never ending all encompassing tox gas
killing yourself would be more survivable
spare talon
Also the fact that the actual visual is way larger than it's hitbox is so it's hard to tell what's safe and what's not
spare talon
THE FOG IS COMING
sour oxide
They play the insane bounce of the tox nade so well
spare talon
FLAMES ARE TRUTH
Never forget
L. D. R.
words to live by
livid siren
so uh when are scab shooters getting grenades
spare talon
Hell no
livid siren
imagine the suffering
red mesa
best way to make a devil claw (thinking the mk 4) and best build for it?
should i go savage sweep + rampage?
or is it better used in a crit build with shred?
spare talon
best way to make a devil claw (thinking the mk 4) and best build for it?
should...
Ok so
I'm at work in retail so i may be delayed in my messages
But as my name suggests this is my territory
livid siren
https://youtu.be/6V4xGbIvH4c?t=850
saltzpyre..?
spare talon
best way to make a devil claw (thinking the mk 4) and best build for it?
should...
Both builds work but my experience is with shred and a crit cdr build, which is great especially since dclaws crit damage is on the better side
You'd use rampage and shred, the power from rampage gives enough cleave to where you never feel you're suffering from a lack of it
And crits add to that, which would be most swings with a crit build
Lemme send the bones of my build, since a decent number of talents are personal preference
red mesa
ty! MK 4 is best?
vast basin
just to clarify, crits dont increase cleave
misty nova
THE FOG IS COMING
ominous piano
glad marlin
ty! MK 4 is best?
mk4's the best general purpose claw, mk7 isnt bad too
sterile stone
shot by a sniper then fire
Cole got the ole Lee Harvey Oswald treatment
red mesa
flak maniac on perks, or worth doing something like carapace to help with armor? i feel like with shred, blazing piety and scourge we are good on crit and dont need a 5% crit perk but could be wrong
sturdy hinge
Is "behind enemy lines" locked to just ranged enemies or specifically ranged specialists? (asking since the heavy hitter one doesn't specify that it has to be heavy attack kills specifically)
red mesa
just to clarify, crits dont increase cleave
ya i wonder if theres enough crit with keystone etc and a cleave blessing would overall be better but def will try it this way first and see what its like, ive like never used a devil claw and kinda bored wanna use something new lol
misty mason
Is "behind enemy lines" locked to just ranged enemies or specifically ranged spe...
any ranged I believe
ripe quest
maybe the one exception would be purge staff
The bonus to burn stacks via crit is better handled with talents and never the crit chance perk. It's so marginal it's almost impossible to test the difference against any enemy.
vast basin
thats why I said maybe
misty mason
The higher your crit rate the more impactful it is
vast basin
well that only really applies with a decent crit mod
ripe quest
The higher your crit rate the more impactful it is
no, exact opposite.
The relative improvement of crit procs goes down the more crit chance you have
misty mason
If you top out at 80% crit, that extra 5% equates to relative 25% more crits
fleet zealot
purge staff likes some crit
but is not worth a perk slot at all
the crit chance from warp nexus alone is to keep the avoid ranged fire talent and warp damage on crit up
ripe quest
If you top out at 80% crit, that extra 5% equates to relative 25% more crits
what drugs are you on
It's a 6.25% relative crit proc increase
At 10% vs. 15% it's a 50% increase.
fleet zealot
if there wasn't a cap or the flames did something if you overcapped, it might be worthwhile but until then there is no need to reach 16 stacks 3% faster
sterile stone
At 10% vs. 15% it's a 50% increase.
Don't take mans serious
maiden path
does everything i want
vast basin
I think the math he is doing in his head is that he is reducing the 20% chance to not crit to 15%, thereby increasing crit chance by 75% 
maiden path
psykers the best i wish it's drip wasnt so fucking terrible
fleet zealot
psykers the best i wish it's drip wasnt so fucking terrible
i got something for you
fleet zealot
look what they did
spare talon
ty! MK 4 is best?
This is what my build looks like, which takes tons of additional dr nodes and triple stacks on dodges, especially with how much you'll be dodging with it despite having the parry
Second wind is just too good to pass up
Duelist is great considering the dclaws pretty good headshot and crit damage and how often both are gonna happen
I take good balance just as additional dr considering I'm already double stacking dodge benefits, and I'm taking twbs cuz that's always amazing
Bear in mind my tree has very little damage increases, mostly cuz I am comfortable with being able to kill shit without the extra damage, which is why I sent the bones first
Also yes I prefer the mk4 cuz of its moveset, the h1 is an overhead and h2 is a sweep, with the overhead you can literally sprint from enemy to enemy and it will always do the h1 and it one shots everything besides the dregs with the flak heads
misty mason
I think the math he is doing in his head is that he is reducing the 20% chance t...
I said 25% and relative
frosty herald
Clips with everything under the sun
fleet zealot
WDYM LUcky i come back and my go to helm is ruined
fleet zealot
also lost my auric streak
my fault tho
i know i dont do well in low vis misions
killed the sniper, he had a sniper right behind him farther away
frosty herald
Lights out is easier than vent purge
maiden path
Lights out is easier than vent purge
wtf does vent purge do again
sterile stone
wtf does vent purge do again
fog
fleet zealot
and niether are easy for me since i already struggle visually
frosty herald
wtf does vent purge do again
Smoke and alot of snipers
sterile stone
and snipers
maiden path
any of the modifiers that fuck with your vision are the worst
ripe quest
I said 25% and relative
That math is for finding the negative of crit chance, so in this case the reduction of non-crits. You'd be, in relative terms, non-critting 25% less. That is absolutely not equivalent to critting 25% more often.
spare talon
flak maniac on perks, or worth doing something like carapace to help with armor?...
With scourge base piety and shred, you have enough crit to keep you going for years which is why I personally don't take the extra 10% in piety in favor of another node
But thats just me, there's a lot of flexibility in this build
I've changed it many times lmao
frosty herald
ripe quest
Dev punches are so golden
normal quail
Do zealots use shotguns in builds ever?
spare talon
ya i wonder if theres enough crit with keystone etc and a cleave blessing would ...
And with my 400+ hours using a shred rampage dclaw i can say for certain you won't ever have an issue with cleave using shred and rampage
A crit and heavy attack never stops in a horde for me
ripe quest
Do zealots use shotguns in builds ever?
They're good. Consistent generalist weapons.
gray ice
shotguns are good and fun
sterile stone
Trying to get the marksman penance done with a shotgun
red mesa
And with my 400+ hours using a shred rampage dclaw i can say for certain you won...
what curios you rock
spare talon
what curios you rock
All 17% toughness
gray ice
Trying to get the marksman penance done with a shotgun
bro tryna swat a fly with an rpg
spare talon
Perks are 5% toughness, gunner resist, and stamina regen
sterile stone
bro tryna swat a fly with an rpg
I gotta make sure I hit my target
I don't wanna leave any reasonable doubt
spare talon
People don't like stamina regen on zealot but it becomes very noticeable and helpful when you start weaving parries into your attacks and dodges
spare talon
Most noticeable against bosses though
gray ice
I just don't care to run stamina because even with as many games with dclaw as I have, I can think of maybe 3 occasions where I've gone "damn I really wish I had stamina right now"
I think they should try running the numbers for stam regen up and see if it'd stack up to other options then
frosty herald
ill run stamina regen or blocking stuff when i get the bret longsword moveset
polar nexus
Perks are 5% toughness, gunner resist, and stamina regen
Lol we have the same setup
spare talon
Lol we have the same setup
Great minds think alike
spare talon
Dclaw user as well (most of the time)
I mean, same here
I have a crusher build that I'm very comfortable with as well and have a knife build that I rarely use but always have available if I ever get an itch to be more of a goblin than I am with the dclaw
misty mason
I really should give the dclaw a hoon again
I think the last time I used it was shortly after the patch making them not shit anymore
fleet zealot
I really should give the dclaw a hoon again
a hoon
misty mason
correct
fleet zealot
noun
a lout or hooligan, especially a young man who drives irresponsibly.
"the whole family was wiped out because some drunken hoon had to drive his car"
verb
behave in a loutish way, especially by driving irresponsibly.
"she noticed people hooning around Ohariu Valley"
frosty herald
replace the h with g
misty nova
Dclaw drive-by
misty mason
fleet zealot
i failed a clutch on my psyker
misty mason
One time in my relatively new office job, I got asked by the HR manager if I wanted to try some wine and I told her "I'd give ita hoon"
fleet zealot
i was doing good but the horde finally burnt out my dodges and a sniper railed me while i was stuck
spare talon
I really should give the dclaw a hoon again
@vernal terrace
ornate bone
any1 down for auric maelstorm
split ibex
I really should give the dclaw a hoon again
Boss fights are great with it
misty mason
What's that boy doing out in the day ):
misty mason
It always makes me laugh that Americans call them kiwi birds
Cause just kiwi usually refers to the fruit there
Even though the fruit is named for the bird
So we call them kiwifruit
median steeple
I honestly straight up forget kiwi is a fruit
sterile stone
https://tenor.com/view/run-kiwi-cute-bird-gif-15759703
Best thing to come from that side of the world
median steeple
new zealand may be small but man they lucked out on decent animals unlike australia
fleet zealot
i love kiwifruit
i eat the skin on
tho like an american
i simply call them kiwis
misty nova
weird flavor, weirder texture
Delicious
calm salmon
I'm not gonna look down on people enjoying something I don't
its just not something I'll go out of my way to get
ornate bone
https://tenor.com/view/run-kiwi-cute-bird-gif-15759703
"A kiwi is a wingless bird"
Diogenes:
calm salmon
gimme the more run of the mill fruit and veggies. Carrots, apples, bananas, corn, peas, green beans
misty nova
its just not something I'll go out of my way to get
Understandable
calm salmon
https://tenor.com/view/eleanor-basic-good-place-ya-basic-gif-15796630
i'm so basic you could neutralize industrial grade acid with me
misty mason
If you want to try some real NZ fruit (ironically from South America) it's feijoas
calm salmon
pears are fuckin delicious
spare talon
Pear cider was the first alcoholic thing that i had and liked didn't want to immediately spit out
spare talon
Bottom heavy fruit
calm salmon
Pear cider was the first alcoholic thing that i had and ~~liked~~ didn't want to...
mine was rum
and then PBR
budweiser is. . . drinkable. . . but its not great
Heineken is great though
fleet zealot
i had a sip of my bf's rum and mtn dew
and it was ok then i tasted like bad memories
misty mason
"This is my favourite spirit"
Gets hungover once
"This is my least favourite spirit"
viral hare
which would yall say is better
fleet zealot
which would yall say is better
left
gray ice
left
viral hare
cool cool
spare talon
Left
A small dip in cleave targets on a weapon that has no issue with cleaving anyway is worth the swap of crit chance for maniac
gray ice
I think the statline is still such that you might not reach the dreg rager 1 shot threshold, at least not without some additional dmg help
maiden path
i am literally him
gray ice
Distain and sustained assault both exist
I have plenty of disdain for this game I'm not sure how that helps
burnt ivy
Flame grenade Zealots when a horde approaches
gray ice
Flame grenade Zealots when a horde approaches
how'd you know my favorite thing to do was beat them to death whilst they cook
burnt ivy
It's badass
Also smart
I used that method to get my penances done on high intensity missions
Shove spamming enemies and keeping them in the bbq pit
Easiest 2k kills
misty mason
I want to link the Guts copy pasta, but it's probably breaking the discords rules
frosty herald
Nuts from vinland saga or smt
misty mason
You mean Grunts from Dragonball Z?
frosty herald
burnt ivy
Nuts from vinland saga or smt
Nuts is from Berk bruh
tardy cave
alright boys, looking to make my first boltgun ever... what kinda stats/blessings should I be looking for, if you had to pick the perfect gun?
burnt ivy
Kill
tardy cave
and is collateral the shitty stat we dont care about?
tardy cave
wait is "impact" aoe radius?
cause the description says, "stagger, impact, suppression"
was thinking this one looked pretty nice
fleet zealot
collateral is no longer a dump stat on bolter
you need high collat for bulwark opening
dump mobility cause bolter is slow as balls anyways
misty mason
The usual deal is, you want 70+ in everything but your dump stat (mobility) but you can have like 65+ in one
tardy cave
this is what the first one i linked upgraded into 🤔
leave stats and replace both blessings im thinking?
misty mason
Id keep rolling until you get the spread I said above
If you want the perfect bolter
tardy cave
wait im dumb, i just spent another 200k and didnt even look at the new rolls
misty mason
Or just wait for the crafting update that will happen sometime in the next 6 months (maybe, if were lucky)
tardy cave
lol
tardy cave
fun af with piety
misty mason
That should be Savage Sweep
tardy cave
wrath is all i got
tardy cave
dont even have a rank 3 lol
misty mason
I think the 5% crit is probably not ideal either
But you're using Fury so not the worst thing in the world
tardy cave
yeah i slapped it on their until I figured out what it should be
tardy cave
you guys think its necessary to have flak on a bolter when it already has carapace?
i should probably just go fuck around with one in the grinder...
viral hare
id say generally youre not wasting bolter shots on flak enemies
mostly ogryns and monstrocities
misty mason
Yeah agree
rugged tree
best way to do "just a flesh wound"? is it just doing loner stealth zealot and grabbing a buddy with similar and sprinting through the mission?
tardy cave
my line of thinking was, flak would be overkill since i imagine it melts them anyway lol
misty mason
Unyielding is probs the best
tardy cave
ooo yeah good point
misty mason
for bolter
viral hare
carapace unyielding is gouda
tardy cave
forgot about unyielding
misty mason
best way to do "just a flesh wound"? is it just doing loner stealth zealot and g...
Do (I think) it's oubliette assassination
tardy cave
fuck. i guess i keep the gloryhunter and replace the stam then?
misty mason
Some missions are just shorter than others
One of the assassination missions is the shortest on average
I think it's oubliette
Also try and find a Low Intensity mission
So Low int assassination
rugged tree
how do the Raids stack up, not as quick but still doable?
misty mason
No idea
I just know that the assassination mission is what everyone did (including me) back in the day
clear knot
i did consignment yard
rugged tree
the only one available atm is a high int Damnation haha
rugged tree
ye I know
clear knot
trs relay station is quick too
rugged tree
none are ideal atm, looks like I'm waiting next rotation
clear knot
id say dreyko but its end event got reworked and idk how much time its added or not
misty mason
I think in general we are a lot more powerful than we were back in the day, so im sure no mod assassination would work
Assuming you have well rolled/good weapons
rugged tree
its probably slower than before if you had a good team grabbing scans quickly
sterile stone
This has got to be the most dog shit penance in game
misty mason
Oh I don't think I've started that one
rugged tree
a warpfire psyker + high int missions would reduce pain I think
sterile stone
RNG teammates are not the move
misty mason
Oggy kill numbers are almost universally too high
I think the only reasonable one was the rock penance
merry spade
brunt sells some wacky weapons sometimes.
rugged tree
bucks like a horse lol
fleet zealot
misty mason
Actually this is easier, should I buy this from Melk?
It's good, but you may wind up with a dead blessing/perk
sterile stone
Silk moth?
fleet zealot
Silk moth?
no it's a ferret
fleet zealot
fleet zealot
i actually have a slight ick about moths because when I was a kid a giant moth clothes lined my face and wiggled on it while I was running which made me fall over a log
sterile stone
That little fella can't eat
drifting wolf
drifting wolf
he is a nut weevil and he is attempting to eat the nut
viral hare
is someone gonna tell him that it is too big for him
maiden path
drifting wolf
swift pewter
It's good, but you may wind up with a dead blessing/perk
What am I looking for as final product?
misty mason
Not sure what the ideal ones are, but I know both those perks are bad
Most likely flak maniac
I think the blessing is good though
misty mason
Yeah if you upgrade it and get another good blessing then you can replace both the perks and it'd be a very good columnus
tired kindle
hey while were on the topic of penances
sterile stone
https://tenor.com/view/erm-erm-what-the-snout-what-what-the-weevil-gif-181868798...
Best creature tbh
Weevils are the shit
tired kindle
did they throw out all the old penances?
sterile stone
did they throw out all the old penances?
Lol no
tired kindle
for instance i liked checking my progress for killing a million scabs or whatever, now im not finding it
misty mason
Nah just added new and made a new UI
tired kindle
could someone help me find it?
sterile stone
Bruh
misty mason
I dont want to say better UI, cause the fact that it shows Hestia's face every time you click on it makes me mad
Not cause I dont like Hestia
But the delay is sghjudfgj
tired kindle
right, i thought it would be in the heretical category but not seeing it
open pollen
Takes you to penances if you don’t wanna walk there
Still have to sit through the slight delay
sterile stone
Still have to sit through the slight delay
Is everyone’s adhd that severe they can’t wait a few seconds
tired kindle
okay
open pollen
Is everyone’s adhd that severe they can’t wait a few seconds
Yes. This doesn't exist for the other menus.
tired kindle
im at 372k wow
sterile stone
I got you fam.
misty mason
Is everyone’s adhd that severe they can’t wait a few seconds
yes
If every time you posted a kekw you had to watch a two second zoom in on the kekw guys face you would... probably keep doing it
misty mason
I am genuinely baffled that people still play that game
sterile stone
I am genuinely baffled that people still play that game
It’s ubisofts last crutch
maiden path
everytime i play it the game is 10x different
misty mason
I played it for like 3 hours and thought it was shit
maiden path
It’s ubisofts last crutch
that game has a monthly budget of like 30 bucks
sterile stone
It’s low maintenance
maiden path
its like keeping your grandpa on life support by giving her meth
sterile stone
But pays out well
By well I mean enough to not shut it off
And make slight profit
Besides
What else does goofysoft have going for them?
maiden path
for some niche ass half baked fighting game 5k isnt too bad
misty mason
It didn't help that im a mild history nerd so the whole premise is goofy as hell
sterile stone
They’ve basically marooned every other IP they own
maiden path
i mean half baked
very half baked
i think for honor is quite possibly one of the worst balanced fighting games ive ever played
sterile stone
For Honor is like rust
People hate the game
But still play it
People hate the community
But still play it
sterile stone
Dbd is a wild case
misty mason
Who would win? People from the same region but 500 years earlier with much shittier technology? Or people from a nation that have notoriously low quality iron and who's weaponry in game is primarily designed for fighting unarmoured opponents
maiden path
i fuck with dbd hard
sterile stone
When it comes to toxic communities
misty mason
Or people in full plate
maiden path
Who would win? People from the same region but 500 years earlier with much shitt...
any historical relevence is lost when you have a centurion kicking people in the chest
misty mason
Wait they have romans now?
misty mason
lawl
misty mason
I kinda miss war of the roses
misty mason
Being wounded on the ground and if someone executes you, it switches you to first person
burnt ivy
That game makes me violently racist
misty mason
So you see their face as they stab you with a dagger in the throat
sterile stone
Who would win? People from the same region but 500 years earlier with much shitt...
Neither
misty mason
And you could give yourself a fucked up peasant face
sterile stone
6ft tall Chinese lady with gun
burnt ivy
I'd rather wipe my ass with a cheese grater than play For Honor again
I played since day 1 as a Warden
And they left my boy behind
vivid hawk
worth getting for the Laspistols?
maiden path
for honor has so many reworks for some characters that their original identity is just completely lost
misty mason
Any setting with full plate should have guns
sterile stone
You mean like conquistadors?
misty mason
they are contemporaneous
burnt ivy
for honor has so many reworks for some characters that their original identity i...
Warmonger is just a rework of Warden and it's genuinely sad they just left him to rot with a basic ass 50/50 guessing game
misty mason
I mean Varangians are a lot more sensible than viking vikings
burnt ivy
Yeah ain't she OP like every new release hero so they can sell the Battlepass as per usual?
maiden path
Warmonger is just a rework of Warden and it's genuinely sad they just left him t...
i hate like 100% of all the new heros
sterile stone
Warmonger is just a rework of Warden and it's genuinely sad they just left him t...
He got a slight rework like very recently
misty mason
Like the Varangian were around in post 1000 CE
maiden path
after the chinese
the varangian guard charcter fucking blows
locked to one gender on top of just being an odd mish mash of stuff
burnt ivy
i hate like 100% of all the new heros
All the new heroes do the same shit with a different costume
rich tinsel
What's the best zealot blitz
maiden path
all the new heros feel violently sameyh
maiden path
i love how it took for honor what
5 years to add a new viking
and they fucking suck
misty mason
As someone who has used knives almost exclusively since they were released
rich tinsel
I've been dying on my hill on Reddit that knives suck
Today was the day I decided an Internet argument would not go unchallenged
misty mason
Nah mang, they are just not as good as the nades
burnt ivy
all the new heros feel violently sameyh
They are
misty mason
If you get good with them they can be quite clutch
burnt ivy
For Honor characters back then were all interesting and different
misty mason
But you know what else is clutch whenever you need it without needing to be good? A fucken stun nade
rich tinsel
Is it redundant to run flame nades with flamer?? I say no
burnt ivy
Now they are the same invincible dodge attack unblockable 50/50 cancelable into grab
rich tinsel
I think the flame nades are more like throw at your feet when flamer isn't viable
Then hammer away
misty mason
I think the way of thinking about it is
Nades are good
Knives CAN be good
If you're running a slow ranged option like bolter, knife utility goes up by quite a lot
But again, only if you're good with them
rich tinsel
Well the argument they made was without knives flamer is a throw bc you can't rely on your teammates in auric for the snipers
And I'm like well I give gunner groups the flamer puff puff or we run in with relic
vivid hawk
I use knives with evis and crusher, can flick a knife at an incoming special/elite mid combo, very satisfying
rich tinsel
I don't think every zealot build has to be S tier in dealing w every unit
You can go S+ tier in another area and just accept the build weakness
I don't think it makes the build worse
Just different
misty mason
Yeah flamer + knives would also be a good combo
misty mason
I don't think every zealot build has to be S tier in dealing w every unit
But yeah, this
heavy arch
Well the argument they made was without knives flamer is a throw bc you can't re...
why arent they dealing with the snipers then
sterile stone
I've been dying on my hill on Reddit that knives suck
Your first mistake was thinking having any type of conversation would go anywhere but south
On Reddit
misty mason
I usually take versatile weapons cause I dont like to rely on my team
Because I PUG all my games
fleet zealot
You can go S+ tier in another area and just accept the build weakness
you can have weaknesses but you should be able to do anythign if needed
you can be better at some things ofc
heavy arch
all problems can be solved by pressing w and f
fleet zealot
but it's true, throwing knife covers flamer perfectly it just needs really good aim and practice
red path
oh whoops
fleet zealot
the ability to one tap a lot of specials and elites you normally couldn't
misty mason
Yeah this is why I run Rashad, it can literally deal with anything in melee
fleet zealot
any source of quell
misty mason
Zealot is all class chat
red path
it's okay i was gonna answer anyways
so does it or does it not :eyes
fleet zealot
so does it or does it not :eyes
any peril going down counts as quell'd
misty mason
Unironically other than ogryn chat, this is probably the best place for any questions relating to the game
Bigguns tend to know their biz
red path
awesome
so it's just basically natural toughness regeneration. Kind of. Like a second-order toughness regeneration
misty mason
Yep
rich tinsel
Well they said
misty mason
Toughness on quell is very good with peril reduction talents
rich tinsel
Even everybody on the discord says knives are the clear best option
So here I am
Asking the discord
misty mason
They are full of shit
I'm not one of the people with 1k hours, but I have like 400 and most of it has been on zealot
And I've been on the discord since day 1
fleet zealot
Even everybody on the discord says knives are the clear best option
oh best option?
misty mason
As far as I know, most people think knives are the worst option
fleet zealot
you trade the crowd control of the nades for precision of a throwing knife
rich tinsel
And every auric build I see is still fire nades with flamer
Unless these are for premades
fleet zealot
And every auric build I see is still fire nades with flamer
that's pointless to me imo
rich tinsel
And they already have people handling that shit
fleet zealot
flamer hits max stacks easily
misty mason
The thing with zealot is that with the right build we can do basically everything without a blitz
If you're running stealth, having the stun nade is less useful, cause you don't need it for a clutch res
so what is best does depend on your build
e.g. you dont need a stun nade to pull that res with stealth, but a fire nade will help clear the mobs out around the person your ressing, so it's less hectic when they get up
rich tinsel
So there are situations like this
Flamer just non viable
You can still just throw flame nades down for thes times
fleet zealot
So there are situations like this
well duh
it's non viable
holy shit you are running chorus
fleet zealot
chorus ironhelm flamer build
fleet zealot
Swag right
idkw hy you come here complaining about reddit when... you are just kinda wrong?
spiral anvil
You take flamer so you can take knives
spiral anvil
Also that lmao
fleet zealot
i take knives so i can kobe the snipers and bombers
misty mason
Knives plus flamer or bolter are a good combo imo
spiral anvil
Flamer and t.knife just mesh together well
fleet zealot
flamer is so shit without chastise why would you give up on an amazing crusher pack killer weapon
spiral anvil
I still need the stun grenade sniper Kobe 
steel agate
i never use flamer with chastise i enjoy funny overtoughness spam
steel agate
been a hot minute since ive hopped on my chastise build
lusty turtle
nothin wrong with flamer n flame nades
misty mason
The mission with the train fight at the end is probably the easiest place to do stun nade long throw
lusty turtle
not optimal sure, but fun
misty mason
There's always a sniper up in the rafters, just ask your team not to kill it for a minute
steel agate
https://tenor.com/view/datadog-data-dog-dataism-dataist-datarecovery-gif-1021590...
dw i aint callin ur ways wrong or nothin i just havent dabbled as much as i should build wise on some operators
fleet zealot
nothin wrong with flamer n flame nades
if there are two people left alive, and someone has flamer and flame nades, i'm going to let that sniper shoot you
yea i know mage and slanderous library
you are doing it for fun
steel agate
sorry i just see that gif used alot then continued with badmouthin
so it was a built in reaction 
lusty turtle
if there are two people left alive, and someone has flamer and flame nades, i'm ...
i would simply not get shot by the sniper
fleet zealot
it's mostly just, the person saying they argued over reddit about it's effectiveness and trying to prove they were right
when they are going chorus flamer ironhelm
lusty turtle
judgement dodge buff poggers
knives are great to give u some ranged poke on a cqb build
also they are slick af
fleet zealot
knives, much like flamer, is a massive trade off
luckily, they cover what you lose with the other pretty well
rich tinsel
Because I will never give up my dream
misty mason
Manor Lords only 1 sleep away
rich tinsel
I will see this world burn
lusty turtle
i wish more darktide kit building was trade offs and not evergreens
columnus and DS4 make me sad
and voidstrike
psyker in general really
coarse birch
😔
misty mason
I fucken love smite this patch
fleet zealot
psyker using smite EP+venting flames to wipe an entire mixed horde
rich tinsel
Who's your main
rich tinsel
Oh the psyker spell
lusty turtle
i main vet
coarse birch
i wish more darktide kit building was trade offs and not evergreens
Tbf a lot of this is thanks to rending being so available now
Imo
south folio
a lot of talents being completely passive bonuses
coarse birch
Means i can take any high capacity or high damage gun and suddenly i am anti armor
south folio
and some stuff that pretends to be active but has practically 100% uptime
coarse birch
With hsword
broken trellis
been fidling with an smoke exe mf build with lucius
The penance armor for smokey stealth vet was nice enough to make me actually play it
lusty turtle
Tbf a lot of this is thanks to rending being so available now
rending doesn't help but isn't the whole issue
or well, rending bonuses i think are fine if they had a lower cap (40%) but crit rending is where i hate
misty mason
Smoke was better than I expected ill admit
misty mason
But sometimes they seem to just not work
lusty turtle
Smoke was better than I expected ill admit
smokes are great but niche
coarse birch
On the other hand, the stuff that isnt generalized tends to be specalized to the point of removing an enemy from the game (ie hammer)
fleet zealot
thunderhammer singlehandedly was responisble for the massive monstro hp buffs
idk if im joking
vernal terrace
<@397420128330842124>
?
broken trellis
"number no big it no solve issue for me >: (" was the view on them
Funny krak grenade go boom
undone pewter
Every time I wanted to use smoke I wish I had the shredder instead.
Maybe I'm crutching too hard
coarse birch
Frag is just very good
lusty turtle
thunderhammer singlehandedly was responisble for the massive monstro hp buffs
think that was just in response to the weapon buffs and class rework from patch 13-15
spare talon
<:huniA:751450484451180636> ?
TIL hoon is an actual word
undone pewter
Frag is just very good
I love it. So good so versatile.
lusty turtle
frag is insane value
honestly they should make frags and krak get less from grenade regen
south folio
god bless shredder frags
coarse birch
If something is on elite kill its practically a passive
undone pewter
Frag maybe krak not so much
broken trellis
I should play frag again. Throw out a couple in a horde and there's no more horde
lusty turtle
Frag maybe krak not so much
frag and krak get so much value out of regen the fact you get more smokes means nothing
broken trellis
Maybe pick up plasma gun again too
lusty turtle
If something is on elite kill its practically a passive
EP my unbeloved
coarse birch
EP is fucking tragic
It could be so cool and its the least interesting thing while being easy to maintain
undone pewter
frag and krak get so much value out of regen the fact you get more smokes means ...
I'd say buff smoke Regen instead of nerfing the others then tbh
Less frags won't make me like smokes more it'd make me like frags less
coarse birch
I mean the amount of grenades you get is just kind of insane
south folio
though the point isn't strictly just to make smokes better
lusty turtle
Also ep BB is activley nearly unhinged and the only thing stopping it is its tragic dodging behaviour
south folio
but because frags are better than they should imo
tune the bleed stacks per nade down
and/or put in a lower max bleed application cap for it
lusty turtle
I'd say buff smoke Regen instead of nerfing the others then tbh
Less frags won't...
Current frag regen is unhinged tbh, which is the other reason i want it squashed
south folio
fatshark has a habit of letting DoTs be attached to AoE application methods that turn out to be too strong for its own good
attaching the regen nodes to each nade and letting balance fine tune it
and killing the current implementation of EP for psyker in some way
unique radish
Frags are only 6 stacks of bleed. Tune them down and they may as well not exist.
south folio
deleting the keystone entirely and replacing it with an entirely new idea, moving upgrade nodes to the blitzes
lusty turtle
Also ep BB is activley nearly unhinged and the only thing stopping it is its tra...
Being able to clear elite packs pretty quickly, at 0 peril cost
south folio
Frags are only 6 stacks of bleed. Tune them down and they may as well not exist.
there is certainly some range of tuning down where they'll still be good
lusty turtle
Frags are only 6 stacks of bleed. Tune them down and they may as well not exist.
Sure if you ignore the blast damage and the knockback they become useless
south folio
you can always stack bleed, so they'll inevitably be good unless we annihilate the # of bleed stacks that they apply
unique radish
Sure if you ignore the blast damage and the knockback they become useless
I meant the bleed stacks themselves rather than the frags
misty mason
Oh yeah bb being good again feels great
south folio
just because you can potentially annihilate frags by tuning them way too down is not a reason to not tune them down at all
that's not how balancing works
unique radish
Even in their current state Frags are a knockback tool more than a damage tool
south folio
you can chuck them into a pack of elites and kill everything
lusty turtle
Oh yeah bb being good again feels great
Honestly if it wasnt breaking psyker legs to use it i'd almost ask for EP BB to generate heat
south folio
besides crushers of course
scab ragers/maulers are significantly weakened with two or die with three
dreg ragers die to two
unique radish
If Kraks went off on impact, at least against enemies they've magnetized too, and Smokes did... anything of actual value I think Frags would be less dominant
lusty turtle
Ye 2 frags will kill almost anything in the game
Which sorta makes kraks redundant, but kraks have cool audio and visual design so no one cares
(Which is based)
unique radish
I don't see frag bleed kill things often but I also tend to toss them one at a time as space clearing tools
south folio
that's just the nature of all DoTs having approximately exponential scaling at initial stack counts for some reason
bleed included
lusty turtle
Drop 2 or 3 on an elite pack, it will kill most of them and if u have 5% regen on elite kills...
south folio
chuck more of them and bleed ramps up in damage + lasts longer
undone pewter
I'm curious actually is fire and soulfire different dots?
lusty turtle
Its very unhealthy for the game tbh, but there are more pressing issues than frags
lusty turtle
I'm curious actually is fire and soulfire different dots?
Yes
south folio
and if you pace the third nade, you can extend the bleed stacks for 2 more ticks
spiral anvil
I'm curious actually is fire and soulfire different dots?
They are
undone pewter
Fire maxxing
south folio
burn ticks faster and has higher damage, but it lasts shorter
soulblaze ticks slower and lower damage, but lasts longer
iirc soulblaze lasts 8 seconds before decaying and burn 4 seconds
bleed decays in 1.5?
unique radish
Drop 2 or 3 on an elite pack, it will kill most of them and if u have 5% regen o...
Then the problem might be more Vet's ability to regen grenades rather than frags themselves.
spiral anvil
If you don't throw frags consecutively you won't stack bleeds
south folio
Then the problem might be more Vet's ability to regen grenades rather than frags...
sure, and we're going to have to balance around the fact that vet can regen nades
lusty turtle
Then the problem might be more Vet's ability to regen grenades rather than frags...
Hense i said to tackle nade regen to affect based on grenade type
south folio
obviously, vet is going to keep nade regen in some form
so we will have to balance both the regen and the performance of the nades themselves
there is no getting around the fact that you will have to touch the nades in some form
unique radish
Demo Team could honestly go, Demo Stockpile is slow enough of a regen that tossing your entire stockpile of grenades to clear one Elite pack is a risky move
south folio
eh, i consider stockpile to be very good since it's consistent
spiral anvil
With 3 minute in between bursts, you can do it around ~8 times per match
lusty turtle
1 minute is shorter than you think
south folio
and it's a lot
spiral anvil
And that's just one vet
unique radish
Stockpile is good but it's one grenade a minute
spiral anvil
Not including field improv
south folio
if you play conservatively, you can just bust them out every time melee enemies show up
lusty turtle
For an average game, assuming you are using nades frequently, thats 20 nades over time
south folio
but that's still a lot in the context of a game where you're not probablistically encountering elites that frequently
and as a stagger tool, even a single frag grenade is powerful
because the frag nades have an absurd stagger radius for that as well
unique radish
If you're conservative with them you pretty much always have a bomb in your pocket but if you're spamming them out you're not going to have the ability to do so constantly
undone pewter
Great for rezzes and objectives
south folio
sure, and 1 grenade every minute quickly allows you to always have nades to bail yourself out
clear knot
i think if we balanced the availability of the nades. along with the terribly balanced elites and specials which will come slowly but surely. the dmg/dot of the nades might not need touched all that much.
south folio
i have never felt the need to pick up grenades if i ever took stockpile
misty mason
Yeah I just missed having really strong BB, I hadn't tried it since the talent tree
unique radish
but that's still a lot in the context of a game where you're not probablisticall...
Depends, if you play mostly Auric you're going to be in "toss 3 nades to clear a pack" situations frequently
south folio
mf what difficulty do you think i play
clear knot
lol
misty mason
mf what difficulty do you think i play
sedition
clear knot
yeah most of us here are auric+ gamers
lusty turtle
Ye arco, you run plasma knife vet on sedition
unique radish
Though balancing everything around High5Shock is... probably not the best idea
south folio
Ye arco, you run plasma knife vet on sedition
i'm going to stab you
south folio
Though balancing everything around High5Shock is... probably not the best idea
but it is since that's going to be where the balance matters
misty mason
Uprising?
lusty turtle
See, a knife vet, bet he runs bleed to
clear knot
balance doesnt matter in malice lmao
clear knot
the game is showing you how to play at that point, still
spiral anvil
And malice players don't care about balamce
undone pewter
i'm going to stab you
Then shoot with the plasma perhaps?
south folio
what's the point of balancing for for middle difficulties if you can always step up for a harder challenge, or step down for an easier challenge?
that's the point of this discussion, since player power level relative to enemies is too much
and much of the current challenge is just spamming elites at you
so if you have very high uptime on an AoE damage tool, you get to erase a lot of the current challenge
fleet zealot
balancing for low diffs is just making sure nothing ruins the games for others
like assail
misty mason
Back in the day I feel like 2-5% of the population were on damnation
unique radish
Because you can very easily make something underpowered or overpowered outside of HighShock if you only balance it around the idea that you have to constantly deal with packs of specials and elites
fleet zealot
assail was nerfed cause low diff and only slightly overperforming in high diff
misty mason
Balancing for the outlier wouldn't make a lot of sense
hardy gull
I like to think the middle is the default diffuculty set by the devs. Higher and lower just changes the stats and what the AI can throw at you.
misty mason
But now I feel like it's 75% on 4+
clear knot
I like to think the middle is the default diffuculty set by the devs. Higher and...
and whats the default?
hardy gull
T3
south folio
Because you can very easily make something underpowered or overpowered outside o...
at least in this context, grenades are always going to be overpowered for lower difficulties because they don't scale
fleet zealot
league already did this song and dance, you balance the numbers around high diff
clear knot
sry
lusty turtle
assail was nerfed cause low diff and only slightly overperforming in high diff
"Only slightly"
Matches with assail psykers were unplayable
south folio
at least in the context of this current discussion (frag grenades), we are starting at the very top
lusty turtle
I would know, i played with yoshi
unique radish
I feel like Survivalist is a great example, on HighShock it was busted with the plasma/revolver because you could have basically infinite ammo but on Malice or even unmodified Heresy you get a lot less value out of it.
misty mason
I still think it's very funny that everyone being so kill thirsty makes everyones time worse
fleet zealot
it was big difference between unplayable in high vs low diff, low diff assail literally killed the game for all your teammates
south folio
though on lower difficulties, there is simultaneously a lower need for survivalist so it balances out
misty mason
Cause everyone is penance hunting
misty nova
league already did this song and dance, you balance the numbers around high diff
Oh how the pro scene affects everyone, crap
misty mason
And while im crab walking around in melee, then ogryn shits ammo into the mooks I need for the dumb penance, cause he has his dumb penance
fleet zealot
Oh how the pro scene affects everyone, crap
you balance low elo around frustration and player retention
misty nova
💀
hardy gull
LOL
Each to their own theres a reason why T3 is the first learning curve for newer players
lusty turtle
it was big difference between unplayable in high vs low diff, low diff assail li...
It did the same on auric high shock i had a match with 2 assail psykers and basically got to afk
fleet zealot
most low elo players do not gives 2 shits if kassadin gets +10 damage on Q
misty mason
Low Electric Light Orchestra?
clear knot
but that shit matters higher up
fleet zealot
It did the same on auric high shock <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163> i had a ma...
yee true, it was pretty bad
undone pewter
Unless it's really unbalanced they they will notice things like that
unique radish
though on lower difficulties, there is simultaneously a lower need for survivali...
Lower need perhaps, but having an unimpactful aura because it was OP on a difficult you aren't playing and may never play doesn't feel good. It may be balanced for the guy with perfect gear and hundreds of hours, but the guy still leveling is gonna look at the numbers and go "wow this sucks".
clear knot
but it objectively doesnty
you jsut want it busted for your difficulty andplaystlye then
fleet zealot
tbf it isn't on fatshark for a person to figure out more enemies= more survivalist value
south folio
Lower need perhaps, but having an unimpactful aura because it was OP on a diffic...
sure, but it also just doesn't matter whether it's OP or not? simply because they don't have a need for that ammo?
they already don't need more ammo on those difficulties
so anything that doesn't disrupt the baseline ammo economy just doesn't matter for them
lusty turtle
Ye survivalist doesnt really affect malice unless they are like... running accatran
Which... i mean good luck on that
clear knot
arco ur too elitest and ur also a good reason why vets suck now, ur just like that one mod who got vets nerfed....
grrrr
south folio
it's joever for vets
undone pewter
Tbh lower difficulties feel like a different world at times. I was playing a T2 mission today for the blue bottle penance and my Aagripna mk 1 was oneshotting almost all lower tier enemies and I couldn't believe it
lusty turtle
arco ur too elitest and ur also a good reason why vets suck now, ur just like th...
Omg darcy is that u
misty mason
Imagine having peegun and being bad
clear knot
stop making my game unfun!
unique radish
sure, but it also just doesn't matter whether it's OP or not? simply because the...
That's not the point. What I'm trying to say is, yes the highest difficulties and levels of play need to be taken into account but if you ignore the rest of the playerbase, and the newer player experience, you create situations like Vet's auras where they provide basically no impact outside of extremely niche or specific situations.
fleet zealot
yea, low diff players don't care if a gun does 10% less damage they just don't like it when something like assail happens
south folio
That's not the point. What I'm trying to say is, yes the highest difficulties an...
yes and I am specifically discussing how the examples being brought up ultimately do not impact the lower diffs
south folio
nerfing frag nades doesn't impact lower diff experience unless we just overnerf them extremely hard because their baseline is overpowered for lower difficulties because they don't scale,
clear knot
its possible to have changes at the higher end of things while keeping things reletively normal at med/lower diffs///
lusty turtle
That's not the point. What I'm trying to say is, yes the highest difficulties an...
I mean, for normal difficulty they wont notice a difference, its just a 5 sec internal cooldown, you arent exactly killing scores of elites in 5 seconds and missing out on regen on malice
south folio
survivalist getting tuned down doesn't matter for lower diffs because the need for ammo is less in lower diffs and the baseline ammo economy (ammo pickups/crates) is VERY good
clear knot
idk skelllly
fleet zealot
i know it sucks in your head "Oh wow they only balance around high elo and pro play" but in reality those are where changes matter, and where people who care about said changes, play
misty mason
Kraks not killing bulwarks 100% of the time is weird
south folio
i agree that we shouldn't do sweeping changes willy nilly, but specifically for the examples that you brought up, we can indeed just nerf them surgically without cascading effects
undone pewter
Kraks not killing bulwarks 100% of the time is weird
That is strange like crushers and maulers no prob but the half naked ogryn
lusty turtle
Kraks not killing bulwarks 100% of the time is weird
Okay actually if this happens can u DM me a clip if u record it?
unique radish
I mean, for normal difficulty they wont notice a difference, its just a 5 sec in...
They might not miss out on any regen but when they're creating their build they're going to look at 1% ammo every 5 seconds and go "wow that's kinda crap."
lusty turtle
I THINK its a terrain clipping issue? That or something to do with AoEs and stick points
fleet zealot
They might not miss out on any regen but when they're creating their build they'...
okay and?
clear knot
that is literally their fault LOL
misty mason
They did buff bulwark health
clear knot
like idk how to tell you
south folio
They might not miss out on any regen but when they're creating their build they'...
yeah, and if they don't need it, then what does it matter?
fleet zealot
it is not on fatshark for people to understand enemy density= higher on kill value
undone pewter
They did buff bulwark health
I thought it was stagger resistance?
misty mason
But I dont record my game footage
clear knot
but all that requires is basic math and some thought behind it if that
lusty turtle
They might not miss out on any regen but when they're creating their build they'...
Or since they are new and just hitting malice they go "oh shit free ammo for the whole team?"
clear knot
that too
unique radish
"The new player experience doesn't matter because they won't need it until higher difficulties" sure is a take
fleet zealot
I thought it was stagger resistance?
both
south folio
the point is, they already didn't need survivalist on lower diffs before the nerf.
And they still don't need it
hardy gull
"The new player experience doesn't matter because they won't need it until highe...
Sounds like a steam forum right there
lusty turtle
But I dont record my game footage
Useless!
fleet zealot
actually my recon lasgun build is completely unplayable now in malice /j
south folio
"The new player experience doesn't matter because they won't need it until highe...
that's a misrepresentation of what I've said and you know it
I am saying that nerfing a talent that affects the ammo economy does not affect difficulties where the ammo economy is very plentiful
misty mason
Bro watch me get top numbers, I'm so good at this game
Mag dumps bolter into horde of trash
fleet zealot
"The new player experience doesn't matter because they won't need it until highe...
that's not what is said
lusty turtle
Gonna have to ban you now 
south folio
that is not equivalent to me saying that the new player experience doesn't matter
fleet zealot
we want a better tutorial and such
undone pewter
I think the tutorial is okay it's a little information... dense?
misty mason
fuck yes I can go drink wine and then go home
undone pewter
And doesn't explain some important mechanics
lusty turtle
I think the tutorial is okay it's a little information... dense?
Some of its info is wrong, has been for like a year now
undone pewter
(Gold toughness)
clear knot
that's a misrepresentation of what I've said and you know it
I am saying that ne...
arco arco , theyre being willfully ignorant and dont really care about what objective analysis you have at this point because it doesnt align wiht their views. theyre malice mandies who jsut wanna complain
south folio
the tutorial is extremly outdated and wrong
lusty turtle
It needs a touch up
fleet zealot
but balance around low diffs is always gonna revolve around frustration and satisfaction, and number balance should be given to high diffs
lusty turtle
Which is why we see stuff like
Ragers can now be dodged
Thats just good qol for everyone but mostly new players, cause how tf can you know they arent dodgeable?
south folio
if we're talking about nerfs, of course the main difficulty to focus on are the higher diffs since that's what will be affected
because if you're at a lower difficulty, you can always step up in difficulty for a challenge
but if you're already at the highest, there's no hgiher that you can go
undone pewter
Which is why we see stuff like
Ragers can now be dodged
Best change
clear knot
i think if we balanced the availability of the nades. along with the *terribly* ...
^what did you thin of this
lusty turtle
Best change
Good change but also
Bullwarks
clear knot
, arco
south folio
there's 5 difficulties level and low/normal/hi intensity + modifiers
there's plenty resolution to work with so let's just expand the dynamic range of difficulty since evidently things are too easy
unique radish
that's a misrepresentation of what I've said and you know it
I am saying that ne...
And I'm saying that while you're right, even if the ammo economy isn't affected a new Vet comparing his auras to the other classes is probably not going to be particularly impressed and he isn't going to find "It has to be this way because it broke the ammo economy on Hi5Shock" a compelling argument.
south folio
And I'm saying that while you're right, even if the ammo economy isn't affected ...
yeah and the other auras of vet also aren't impressive?
fleet zealot
And I'm saying that while you're right, even if the ammo economy isn't affected ...
it was broken in normal damnation
hell it was probably strong in heresy too
south folio
i don't get why people always say "auras of other classes" as if the other auras of vet were also impressive
clear knot
vet and psyker auras get memed on so hard
fleet zealot
that's just unavoidable how on kill effects work
undone pewter
Idk if I'm honest I think this conversation is breaking down less into low versus high difficulty but heavy handed nerfs versus lesser ones
clear knot
zealot too otrher than one
lusty turtle
there's 5 difficulties level and low/normal/hi intensity + modifiers
there's ple...
I also think a key thing is balance should aim for damnation, not auric just normal dam, to be a threat, and then auric is extra spicy stuff
south folio
also, it ultimately doesn't matter to them in terms of gameplay
clear knot
and ogryn too lol
south folio
i do agree that we have to cater to player perception in some way
fleet zealot
vet has damage and movement speed
2 auras that, if they were on any other class, would be good raw stats
south folio
but in terms of it affecting gameplay for lower diffs, it is a very low-impact change to nerf survivalist as has been done
undone pewter
Fucking movement speed.
A crumb of stam regen maybe?
south folio
<a:AmeliaNodFast:1067964516261961728>
I also think a key thing is balance shou...
tfw the hardest difficulty is not particularly hard 😔
fleet zealot
Fucking movement speed.
A crumb of stam regen maybe?
movement speed is really hard to objectively measure
royal vortex
none of the auras are particularly good outside of old survivalist. there's a case to be made they're largely pointless
south folio
at least you can quantify movement speed with a binary measure of "does it let me outrun enemies?"
lusty turtle
tfw the hardest difficulty is not particularly hard 😔
Make shotgunner great again
spiral anvil
If you remove something there needs to be a replacement 
sterile stone
none of the auras are particularly good outside of old survivalist. there's a ca...
One of those illusions that it's doing something type shit
next crow
i guess if the teeny tiny amount of damage you get from the aura lets you hit a breakpoint it's fine?
royal vortex
some of them, like ogryn heavy attack aura, are actively contributing to dumbing down the gameplay of the class and fuckin up weapon design
fleet zealot
i'm just comparing the other auras to other classes, i think damage and movement speed is in line with the rest of the classes
unique radish
yeah and the other auras of vet also aren't impressive?
Definitely, hence why I went to other classes for it. IMO Heresy should probably be the goal difficulty unless they intend to add even harder difficulties. Damnation should be hard, and Auric should be the place the lunatics with godrolls go to fight God.
south folio
yeah
lusty turtle
none of the auras are particularly good outside of old survivalist. there's a ca...
All auras should be fun interesting auras like the corruption cleans on zealot
ornate bone
Definitely, hence why I went to other classes for it. IMO Heresy should probably...
mood tbh