he's mentioned theres some cool ideas ppl have for them
#zealot-class
calm salmon
Fury of the Faithful + Momentum keystone
royal vortex
because its like im holding a laserpointer to a cat to play with but there is NOT a fkin cat in my darktide
calm salmon
+uh
fading vale
yeah I think it's a gun feel thing
frosty herald
Did you know there is a firing speed cap
calm salmon
for a total of +50% dps
royal vortex
darktide really nails the feel of weapons
which was the first thing that got me "hooked"
and then recon is like
what if the feel was no weapon
frosty herald
Using the blue stim you cap the graia instantly
ember yew
can i have a special slot reserved for survivalist vet
ember yew
so no other can join
calm salmon
this scene gives me ptsd
ember yew
fading vale
Fury of the Faithful + Momentum keystone
don't forget to re-ADS after your first bullet lands
frank night
man assumes he is the man
calm salmon
https://tenor.com/view/sauron-owned-lotr-cleave-mace-gif-5201948
because its how ogryn melee was originally balanced
which is why clubs do no damage
but have insane stagger
bitter anvil
Oh I mean I use Graia brauto on vet
calm salmon
mk3b notwithstanding
bitter anvil
Not on zealot
calm salmon
that club is actually good
frosty herald
I would like to use an automatic lasgun but absolutely not a bullpup
bitter anvil
I have agrip on zealot
royal vortex
man assumes he is the man
ur a fkin RAT dude.
calm salmon
don't forget to re-ADS after your first bullet lands
explain
I don't actually know what you're getting at
royal vortex
the game can't update your firing rate until you stop shooting
royal vortex
this is both a curse and a blessing
fading vale
what josho said
calm salmon
oh yeah
I do that on glugger all the time
if PBB runs out mid mag
you keep the fire rate
frosty herald
Every time you fire its counted as a salvo
calm salmon
speaking of game feel
vr mod for mechwarrior 5 is great
I just wish vr weren't so clunky to use still
bitter anvil
Game engine made game already clunky
frank night
ur a fkin RAT dude.
every time u type rat ur crack pipe arc comes a step closer
calm salmon
but without the stupid "chasing meta" aspect of multiplayer games
bitter anvil
What’s MWO?
calm salmon
mechwarrior online
royal vortex
every time u type rat ur crack pipe arc comes a step closer
i hope i am able to monetize my downward spiral
frosty herald
Feet pic arc
bitter anvil
You know there’s worse mech game on mobile. War Robots
calm salmon
mechwarrior is the only good battlebot game
All of them have been great
mwo is the weakest entry, but its a multiplayer game so it actually cares about balance, but due to the complexity of the building system, is not great at it
bitter anvil
Mech warrior is f2p do they have mtx?
calm salmon
single player games don't need that same kind of care, so you can do really stupid shit with builds
Yeah, there's mtx.
Premium account for more earned currency, basically, is the most egregious aspect of MWO.
bitter anvil
Sound like WT
calm salmon
While you can't actually dig yourself into a hole like WT/WoT
it takes 5ever without a premium account to do anything
bitter anvil
Yeah
frosty herald
You can earn premium currency in helldivers 2 right
calm salmon
Yeah.
You can buy the season pass eventually for just playing.
Which is cool, cause the game has a 40usd price tag
rewards people who stick with it. neato burrito game mechanics
bitter anvil
How they earn premium currency in hd2?
calm salmon
Apparently its just by doing objectives or some shit? I don't actually own it, but my best friend bought it.
And I've been watching him play it/getting my info from him
I cannae afford it, and won't be able to for awhile.
bitter anvil
I thought they gonna be like do challenges to earn premium currency.
frosty herald
Broke ass
calm salmon
look
at least curry powder isn't expensive
so I can make rice and chicken taste good
bitter anvil
I have 200$ in my debit account and not gonna buy it
fading vale
How they earn premium currency in hd2?
there's gold blinkys you can find on the map
bitter anvil
there's gold blinkys you can find on the map
What?
calm salmon
so I can make rice and chicken taste good
not much I can do about ham and cheese sandwhiches though
I use salt, pepper and hot sauce
frozen glen
gold rays of light on the horizon
fading vale
What?
flashing gold beams of light that you see when you are close enough
that go to sky
and these have premium currency
calm salmon
HD2 is apparently really good.
fading vale
it's got huge starship troopers vibes
calm salmon
Like a real product these days on release.
fading vale
and they are really well done
fading vale
just saying it's done super well
frozen glen
become a super citizen today
bitter anvil
Is just 4 co-op SST
calm salmon
Specifically its Paul Verhoeven's SST. Its taking all of the story beats of the 95 movie
I think that's when SST1 release
probably have the year slightly wrong.
what a good movie. I literally JUST rewatched it like 2 months ago and now I already wanna rewatch it
fading vale
don't forget the shower scene
frank night
bitter anvil
What’s with special shower scene?
calm salmon
Its just a shower scene
frank night
calm salmon
lotsa boobies
frank night
frank night
bitter anvil
Yes
calm salmon
It does sarcasm really well
fading vale
<:peepoSmile:405825238790570004>
calm salmon
While I don't subscribe to the book being Heinlein's views of the world
calm salmon
the SST book is a little self-serious
and makes it seem like fascism is cool
cause the main protag doesn't really think about an all powerful world government that hides citizenship behind military service as bad
calm salmon
James Gorkshop took a LOT of inspiration from the SST novella
Especially considering that Heinlein was basically the progenitor of the idea of self-contained robotic body armor - IE Space Marines
frank night
excellent steve
lusty turtle
It does sarcasm *really* well
The mobile infantry made me the man i am today
full nebula
what should i do with this?
vocal pulsar
what should i do with this?
raking fire to dumdum
bitter anvil
I think flak from carapace???
full nebula
probably have to grind dumdum
vocal pulsar
ig if you intend on chastising into crushers to kill them, keep carapace
if you have no intentions on killing crushers with it (and are planning to use melee only to kill them) keep special dmg, and swap carapace to flak
full nebula
i c i c
fading vale
raking isnt bad now that it's multiplicative
it's the second best blessing on laspistol at least
lusty turtle
its fun on autoguns if you are running stealth
frank night
greetings mankar
vocal pulsar
greetings mankar
you survived the england removal?
this is unprecedented
i have the feeling that you and i are about to become very close
frank night
🪳
violet hornet
HD2 is apparently really good.
It's phenomenal
Had minimal server / stability issues day 1, otherwise has been running smooth and the gameplay is addicting
hushed knoll
Same
I agree
I wasn’t saying I’m smooth and addicting
Although I could
Possibly
You never know
lusty turtle
lusty turtle
Had minimal server / stability issues day 1, otherwise has been running smooth a...
my only complaint so far is the battlepass locked weapons
i love pay to win elements in my pve coop game
hushed knoll
my only complaint so far is the battlepass locked weapons
Oh yeah that’s my only complaint as well
violet hornet
i love pay to win elements in my pve coop game
The battle pass weapons don't really look like they necessarily perform any better, they're just more options. Assuming you're referring to the premium warbonds
But I do agree I generally like it if all weapons are accessible in the base game
At least the premium revolver I unlocked doesn't seem to outshine the vanilla pistol
deep imp
any build to recommend ?
lusty turtle
The battle pass weapons don't really look like they necessarily perform any bett...
ye the weapons, and the fact armour has stats attached so you can buy armour to bypass needing to unlock it from the free battlepass
lusty turtle
you do
or you can buy premium currency and unlock the other armours on the premium store page which also have stats attached to them
luckily they don't have unique stats (yet)
violet hornet
I think there's only a couple premium armors available from the superstore at once, the ones I saw there looked pretty mid and had the same armor bonuses I already had access to from the free tree so I passed on those
Iirc there should be new ones today tho
lusty turtle
I think there's only a couple premium armors available from the superstore at on...
4 armours at once, and they rotate every 2 days by the looks
violet hornet
The helmets don't give any kind of bonus, they're just cosmetic (for now at least)
lusty turtle
they DO have a section for stats so its just a matter of time i'd assume
violet hornet
Yep I think you're right on that, possible with capes too
I heard they're adding a free warbond / battle pass at the start of each month
Not sure if that means the previous ones will be inaccessible though
lusty turtle
if they are then 💀
i've refunded for now anyway, on an AMD gpu and it has the exact same AMD crashes early DT had
violet hornet
If additional ones are like the current one that means we're looking at 5-10 new weapons every month which seems like a lot
violet hornet
i've refunded for now anyway, on an AMD gpu and it has the exact same AMD crashe...
Yeah I have heard the AMD stability is terrible, not sure why they wouldn't test for that more 
lusty turtle
then it crashed my entire pc
which i think is related to their anti cheat
cause i didn't even have the game open, i crashed out of the game and gave up
violet hornet
I'd be refunding too in that case, that's no way to play.
violet hornet
Ahh yup I believe it, DT engine has little else in common from what I can tell
frosty herald
what kind of anticheat is helldivers 2 using
fading vale
nprotect
frosty herald
Hmm
ember yew
i kinda didn't believe that this thing still alive
frosty herald
Never heard of it
fading vale
idk game works rather well for me and most folks I play with
lusty turtle
one server im in they keep having connection issues trying to party up, i'm getting both GPU crashes but also full system crashes because of the anti cheat
its pretty unstable
fading vale
just don't buy AMD
ember yew
royal vortex
got this as a gift from big E for playing 2 rounds of bolter vet
frozen glen
maniac to stam
royal vortex
deadshotMAXING
idk what u even do for 2nd perk besides maniac on vraks idt its really hurtin for flak
ig that leaves unarmored or unyielding
fading vale
you know what's great about helldivers, it's just fun and even losing is funny
fading vale
90% of deaths are hilarious
fleet zealot
idk what u even do for 2nd perk besides maniac on vraks idt its really hurtin fo...
Id take flak or unyieldin for reapers/monstros
frozen glen
launching urself 50m with the boob spores is funny
fleet zealot
royal vortex
maybe i DO put stam in the 2nd slot
fading vale
the ragdolls are incredible
lusty turtle
just don't buy AMD
its worked for everything else on max graphics, so i like the savings i've had not buying nvidia
lusty turtle
maybe i DO put stam in the 2nd slot
always run stam 
royal vortex
video games take me a decade to download
frozen glen
its 80gb
royal vortex
@frank night i have overcome the inability to deadshot
fading vale
its worked for everything else on max graphics, so i like the savings i've had n...
don't worry I've just been team blue and green for like 16 years
frank night
I'm happy you have gained the power to pee standing up josho
lusty turtle
i'm not on any team i just want good cost for performance
which was amd when i built this rig
fading vale
I only care about the best performance, is one of my PC gaming weaknesses
royal vortex
I'm happy you have gained the power to pee standing up josho
wha
royal vortex
have you had another one of those golden showers
calm salmon
that is a stretch joke
royal vortex
why did u go there
frozen glen
isnt deadshot supposed to be woit
lusty turtle
blowing up motts
little thicket
Can someone eat this cat already
royal vortex
please remove mittins from the building
frank night
I am under attack
frank night
Stay back
fading vale
I once bought these insano headphones
frank night
Get back u beasts
fading vale
all the speakers are in the band
royal vortex
i have assembled some "bolter bad" clips
i am half tempted to post them on the subreddit
lusty turtle
i have assembled some "bolter bad" clips
get to pepepoint people with skill issue
calm salmon
and with onslaught, crushers don't even matter
lusty turtle
who can't play bolter
royal vortex
if u are shooting crushers with an onslaught mgxii u have some problems at home
calm salmon
im just saying
frank night
I snorf the glue
calm salmon
the option is right there if you care that much
if not
combat axe and power sword
¯_(ツ)_/¯
knife if you're a sadist
fading vale
of course puri would say bolter is bad
royal vortex
get to pepepoint people with skill issue
i actually quite like the bolter's current implementation on both classes
calm salmon
of course puri would say bolter is bad
it does literally nothing better than any other option
if that's not bad
then i dont know what the fuck is
ember yew
average
royal vortex
i only came around to zealot recently because i was sick of having like 3 guns on zealot before p13 that werent varying degrees of terrible
lusty turtle
i actually quite like the bolter's current implementation on both classes
i really like calva bolter on zealot
fading vale
well you see the thing is vet exists and they make every gun capable of being strong strong
and they can do very well with bolter still
calm salmon
well you see the thing is vet exists and they make every gun capable of being st...
and literally all of them dont deal with the ass issues of bolter
small magazine, terrible recoil, terrible irons
wintry prairie
i have assembled some "bolter bad" clips
Bolter is pretty bad for general usage. Even as can-opener for Orygn enemies. The only caveat is mag-dumping on Crusher patrol.
royal vortex
bolter has almost universally good adms, vet also negates 90% of the bolter downsides if you play left side
fading vale
don't get me wrong I don't like bolter on zealot now
calm salmon
awful reload time
fading vale
but vet
ember yew
small magazine, terrible recoil, terrible irons
you forgot terrible draw/swap speed
calm salmon
literally just use an MG12
and you do everything bolter does
but better in every concievable way
royal vortex
Bolter is pretty bad for general usage. Even as can-opener for Orygn enemies. Th...
https://streamable.com/mju5zg feels p good to me
royal vortex
it works on literally any grouped elite
lusty turtle
and with onslaught, crushers don't even matter
wait wait wait
royal vortex
so long as u get a dance of death proc
lusty turtle
are you trying to say
calm salmon
there's no good argument for bolter
lusty turtle
use onslaught on MG XII
lusty turtle
royal vortex
a bunch of shotgunners
wintry prairie
https://streamable.com/mju5zg feels p good to me
I could murder that poxhound with Revolver while dealing with horde by melee weapon.
calm salmon
use onslaught on MG XII
no, I'm pointing out how braindead overpowered onslaught is
frank night
Hold him down and poach his nuts
calm salmon
and how it makes even an MG12 not care about crushers
if you're that worried about them
but veteran gets krak grenades
royal vortex
I could murder that poxhound with Revolver while dealing with horde by melee wea...
yes because the point of that clip is the hound
frozen glen
this weapon is garbage because its worse than the best ranged weapon in the game
calm salmon
so crushers and bulwarks are a complete non-issue anyway
lusty turtle
it really doesn't, the issue there is crits more than it is onslaught
calm salmon
oh and vet gets infinite grenades
frank night
Grab his dick and twist it
calm salmon
bolter is exceptionally bad
royal vortex
vet gets infinite grenades on regen that only really applies over time or after you've killed a bunch of elites
calm salmon
sure, it was braindead OP before
but it has no room to breathe now
bolter is actually bad and that makes me sadge
royal vortex
if u think it is a genuinely bad weapon u have suffered some serious concentrated brainrot
frank night
Put him in jail
royal vortex
it requires a p decent amount more effort/playstyle adjustment relative to something like a revolver but the results it gives u are in no way bad
calm salmon
if u think it is a genuinely bad weapon u have suffered some serious concentrate...
Fine
Its worse than:
MG12, MGIV, MG Ia, Revolver, Plasma Gun, Revolver, Vraks of any variety, and Helbores.
wintry prairie
if u think it is a genuinely bad weapon u have suffered some serious concentrate...
Niche or decent weapon at best.
royal vortex
both classes have different tools that mitigate the fairly significant downsides
calm salmon
If that doesn't make it bad to you, fuckin whatever.
But it sure as shit isn't good.
frosty herald
I will give my 2 cents
royal vortex
mgiv isn't a weapon made to be used by humans
frosty herald
A revolver shouldnt be stronger than a bolter
frank night
Ur take is TEPID
calm salmon
and NOW bolter is worse than the above listed weapons
royal vortex
helbores are incredibly debatable about that because if u have an issue with stuff like reload time then ur also going to run into fighting a shitty charge rate mechanic
frozen glen
bolter so bad it is worse than revolver twice
royal vortex
vraks is another debatable one but that gun also has a slightly different role
ur suffering for maniac damage on it
lusty turtle
A revolver shouldnt be stronger than a bolter
well ye theres no way the revolver doesn't get nerfed
but thats a different discussion
obtuse stirrup
A revolver shouldnt be stronger than a bolter
Much slower rate of fire. I'm fine with it being more powerful shot-for-shot.
royal vortex
one of the upsides of bolter is that there are very few targets that are ever hurting for you to shoot at, especially on vet w/ suppression immunity
ember yew
i bet they will nerf Handcannon again
obtuse stirrup
It probably shouldn't penetrate Carapace so efficiently
sterile basalt
i bet they will nerf Handcannon again
Just nerf cleave
obtuse stirrup
Just nerf cleave
NO.
royal vortex
ammo on vet isn't an issue with p much any gun, w/ exe stance you don't really deal with draw time or recoil
reload speed talents
stable cypress
ammo on vet isn't an issue with p much any gun, w/ exe stance you don't really d...
but what if I'm using shout instead of exe which also helps negate bolter weaknesses??
royal vortex
part of the general game problem here is that p13 introduced a bunch of ways to effectively remove differences in weapon performance because u have obscene shit like rending strikes or crit adm shenanigans
calm salmon
Sure, Josho.
royal vortex
but what if I'm using shout instead of exe which also helps negate bolter weakne...
shout users simply have not earned their right to an opinion
calm salmon
But my point is that, currently, bolter is simply outperformed by nearly anything else.
I'd almost go so far as to say literally anything else.
but its iffy on brautos
and the funny graia especially
royal vortex
i would say in terms of player usage yes
because it is harder to get value out of bolter
but it is not harder in the way that like
p12 dclaw is hard to get value out of
the way it is used optimally is not the way most people use it
sterile basalt
Exe needs better uptime and less point tax
frank night
Hello redverse
lusty turtle
most people spray bolter from the hip and miss half their shots into the abyss
royal vortex
most people spray bolter from the hip and miss half their shots into the abyss
crab posted a clip one time of a guy missing basically all his bolter shots, or if the guy hit he would open a bulwark and then not finish him off
lusty turtle
crab posted a clip one time of a guy missing basically all his bolter shots, or ...
he sent it to me aswell
it was pain
calm salmon
with twice the reload speed
royal vortex
lmfao
calm salmon
and the only drop in performance being bulwarks/crushers
obtuse stirrup
Or you can use an MG12
And that's the bad Kantrael now
calm salmon
which vet solves with either kraks, frags, or melee tools
royal vortex
and get ~30 kills
pretty heavily depends on enemy type, maulers are another consideration
lusty turtle
surely MG 12 can kill 30 reapers 
royal vortex
a gun geared for armor clearing is doing way better damage than anything w/o bm and insane cara mods
sterile basalt
And that's the _bad_ Kantrael now
It has serious build limitations
royal vortex
surely MG 12 can kill 30 reapers <:GatorClueless:991584563035906058>
i think(may be wrong) mg12 has a relatively better unyielding modifier, no?
calm salmon
so like why
just use a revolver or plasma gun
which is the real problem with the game
shout/plasma/revolver
sterile basalt
i think(may be wrong) mg12 has a relatively better unyielding modifier, no?
Yes, 2-3 shot reapers to head
calm salmon
all completely invalidate everything on vet if you're concerned about meta
lusty turtle
i think(may be wrong) mg12 has a relatively better unyielding modifier, no?
it does, but not to the point of competing with bolter 1-2 shotting reapers
calm salmon
some people are, some people aren't
stable cypress
idk I use other shit b/c I can win with other shit, "easy game" etc
royal vortex
the game's got enough viable options that u dont really need meta u just vibe
sterile basalt
It’s just very hard to build for MG12 1 taps without exe stance
royal vortex
because meta isnt even necessarily the "strongest" stuff its w/e clears auric the easiest
sterile basalt
And exe stance has both uptime & point tax issues
royal vortex
if revolver didnt have bullet magnetism (and the cleave really but u know) it wouldnt be as popular
calm salmon
it doesn't really have point tax issues
royal vortex
exe stance is like 2 extra points on the ult which i do not find overly taxing
calm salmon
you just can't grab all the goodstuff.dec that you can with shout pathing
sterile basalt
it doesn't *really* have point tax issues
The 2 nodes before exe stance aren’t great for starters
calm salmon
you still get fairly similar power levels
just in different ways
and shout is about a berjillion times easier to use
and a berjillion times safer
royal vortex
The 2 nodes before exe stance aren’t great for starters
the toughness regen w/ no enemies nearby is just a better version of coherency that scales off total toughness
stable cypress
maybe people also sometimes like guns that have a skill floor idk
sterile basalt
Killzone
I’m not a fan of relying ur breakpoints on not being in melee range
Opening salvo
Only +10% crit chance for like 3 shots at most is pretty pathetic
calm salmon
the toughness regen w/ no enemies nearby is just a better version of coherency t...
but. . . coherency regen is based off total toughness too
I don't get this point
lusty turtle
if revolver didnt have bullet magnetism (and the cleave really but u know) it wo...
they should remove its magnetism and give it to bolter
calm salmon
both are % gains
lusty turtle
thats like, the one bump i think bolter should get
sterile basalt
Killzone
I’m not a fan of relying ur breakpoints on not being in melee range
...
These are the unwanted tax I meant
royal vortex
coherency regen is baseline 5/sec regardless of total toughness thats why u get some ENLIGHTENED ppl who make their toughness as low as possible
royal vortex
they should remove its magnetism and give it to bolter
a reduced form of the magnetism
just a lil bit
lusty turtle
yes
royal vortex
revolver bullets are like fkin basketballs
calm salmon
revolver doesn't even have bullet magnetism does it
sterile basalt
they should remove its magnetism and give it to bolter
Ykw that’s totally fair I’m down for that
lusty turtle
revolver mag is stuuupid
stable cypress
overwatch ass gun
calm salmon
I just thought the shell was the size of a ogryn
calm salmon
I like that fatshark nerfed the projectile size on throwing knives
sterile basalt
We should have the emperor guide our bolter shots
calm salmon
to make it easier to hit what you wanted
sterile basalt
It’s the holy bolter after all
calm salmon
but on revolver they just gave it 99 cleave
instead of like
making the bullet smaller
royal vortex
😔
sterile basalt
I wish exe was better tho
sterile basalt
Playing SG psyker made me want to play exe then I went ahead and played 3 games with exe & was immediately reminded why I don’t play exe anymore
calm salmon
but its fine as-is
stable cypress
Base exe maybe doesn't need to be an actual joke
calm salmon
its more of a issue of "why the FUCK is shout so strong"
that makes exe feel not great
stable cypress
and having point tax shit that could be basekit and fine
sterile basalt
it could *maybe* have a longer uptime than 5 seconds
The “refresh duration” node should just be changed into “add 5s duration”
calm salmon
Ogryn ults: based and chill pilled. They're all great.
Zealot ults: they're good, but stealth is uh. . . niche. Some make it work great, some don't - still, all three are viable
Psyker: Funny warp stuff. These lads be wildin
Veteran: Shout
and that's the problem with veteran
Shout needs uh. . . some changes
otherwise vet stealth and exe stance are fine. Good, even.
Its just that shout is so braindead easy to use, and so ridiculously powerful that it feels like there's no good choices.
And much the same could be said about his whole tree. Its basically one super fucking broken path
and everything else sucks dick in comparison
sterile basalt
VoC is strong yes
Other 2 abilities also have pretty bad point tax & pathing
stable cypress
exe is "fine" but its been powercreeped pretty hard in general
calm salmon
nerf shout first
befure thinking about bringing up player power more
if shout gets nerfed, I guarantee everyone changes their tunes about the tree in general
because now there's actual reasons to do different builds
sterile basalt
How would u nerf VoC
calm salmon
instead of just "why not shout swap>swap keystone"
lusty turtle
shout prob just needs a cooldown extension
that or they need to look at nerfing CDR which is probably one of the bigger issues affecting ability balance
calm salmon
completely change how gold toughness works
and nerf the cooldown to 60 seconds
45 would be more reasonable
but uh
fuck vet
60 second cooldown on shout
stable cypress
there's always reasons to use different builds and there's always people running different shit even if its just b/c they don't know better
calm salmon
he gets -6 second cooldown on special kills
sterile basalt
60 second cooldown on shout
That’s just bias lol
calm salmon
60 seconds would be totally reasonable with that in mind
the fact that vets hated 45 seconds with -6 seconds off on special kill is insane to me
garbage players all of em
calm salmon
shout prob just needs a cooldown extension
that or they need to look at nerfin...
cdr in general in the trees needs to die IMO
obtuse stirrup
Vet has way too many nodes in general
lusty turtle
i'm fine with that honestly, i use a lot of the stuff there, although thers def a few that could be trimmed (looking at you -20% stam usage)
calm salmon
But yeah, gold toughness needs a redux on this topic.
It should have never given us literal invulnerability
burster? No damage
crusher? Fuckin why not
bulwark slap? Hell, not the worst right?
lusty turtle
Mauler overhead? Yeah boi, you know what time it is
tbh thats part of a defence issue in general
oggy n vet tanking snipers on normal toughness 💀
calm salmon
While still gamebreaking, it has basis in the 40k fandom for making sense.
No, no, I get that Smelly.
Its really bad for the game, but it at least makes sense
lusty turtle
if they wanna use lore as an excuse we're taking their reload speed increases away and the autoreload on lugger
calm salmon
Veteran is just some random schmuck
taking chainaxe overheads
and ogryn polehammers to the face
like wut
no 
here only 
lusty turtle
i think its a direction issue of they need to decide if they are aiming for high end challenging gameplay
OR
more wider appeal power fantasy stuff
calm salmon
But yeah, the way TDR works right now in general is nuts on ogryn and really needs to be pulled back a significant amount.
And gold toughness on veteran, in the same vein.
at least for veteran its completely bundled into shout. Ogryn its TDR everywhere
Curios, tree, baseline passives
sterile basalt
I still think exe side needs some adjustments
Neither of the 2 nodes before exe feels good to use
I’m down for a VoC CD nerf
Killzone just does not feel good to play and opening salvo is not impactful enough
stable cypress
Invis feels fine to me without points just b/c utility and save potential but I wouldn't mind more basekit power in that
calm salmon
Killzone just does not feel good to play and opening salvo is not impactful enou...
opening salvo is weird
sterile basalt
Infil pathing is sad
calm salmon
as the swap swap keystone affects it
as in, the ammo talent under swap swap keystone
sterile basalt
as the swap swap keystone affects it
Because opening salvo is coded as >90% ammo gives u +10% crit chance
It’s not based on reloads
calm salmon
opening salvo doesn't care if you've reloaded or not, it only cares that you're at the first 10% ammo
Yeah, great minds and fools or whatever
So like. . .
sterile basalt
However, 10% crit chance is
sterile basalt
Pathetic for its conditions
sterile basalt
For a 1pt investment u could just get the 5% crit chance node
calm salmon
Fatshark doesn't really like critical hit builds.
sterile basalt
Which is active all the time and applies to all ur attacks
sterile basalt
For a not so huge difference in crit chance
calm salmon
People get mad when they don't have 100% crit chance
your argument right now w
or even a meaningfully large amount
which would need to be >=70% for most people to actually notice it
they're not gonna notice 33% or 1/3
but 2/3 or 3/4 and they will
making it feel rewarding
sterile basalt
Crits are just weirdly balanced in this game
calm salmon
darktide community just needs to do more tabletop gaming
I suggest Battletech
Then 1/3 stuff becomes way more noticeable
so a 33% crit chance is happy go fuck yeah
see: ogryns using 5% crit chance on stubbers
because its ~=30% crit chance
lusty turtle
Fatshark doesn't really *like* critical hit builds.
i mean its possible to balance they ust need to remove crit rending
sterile basalt
Unfortunately Ogryn stubbers have shit finesse
lusty turtle
crits having innate rending fucks so much balance to the point armour doesn't matter
calm salmon
because of how critical hits work.
Same with bosses.
Critical damage on bosses with stubbers is super noticeable.
As for the achlys, its like 100% more damage on flak enemies, critical hits.
you get ~66 flak damage
raw, or like ~140 with critical hits
sterile basalt
Then 1/3 stuff becomes way more noticeable
I wasn’t saying I needed to build very high crit chance btw
I was saying for a 1pt investment opening salvo’s bonus is not nearly as worth as just the 5% crit chance node
calm salmon
yeah that's fair.
But what opening salvo gives you is a surgical breakpoint
which makes it a one-dimensional pick
while the 5% crit chance perk applies to everything, which can help with things like shred tactical axes or shred chainswords
while not doing much for guns
sterile basalt
At the very least like, make Killzone better
calm salmon
backline vet go 
sterile basalt
Losing a breakpoint because u got forced into melee feels horrible
calm salmon
Someone suggested it should be 8 meters or more to the target you're shooting
instead of no enemies within 8 meters
which would basically be the first talent in the tree top left
but like fuckin whatever
sounds good to me
sterile basalt
Honestly just make it +10% ranged dmg all the time or smth idc
Why does +ranged dmg need so many conditionals
calm salmon
yeah but vet already has that
it just applies to elites
I dunno. Conditional picks are good.
sterile basalt
I went and tested MG12 breakpoints
calm salmon
The real problem with patch 13+ is the complete lack of conditions
sterile basalt
And it was horrible
calm salmon
see: shout swap swap build
it has all of zero conditions
and is braindead OP for it
ogryn anything
sterile basalt
If u want to hit 1 tap gunners without exe active with MG12
calm salmon
preeeeeeeeety much zealot anything
sterile basalt
U need a pretty absurd amount of talent investments
calm salmon
psyker has gunker which is super conditional but the power level you get out of it is just nuts and game warping
sterile basalt
And even then there’s still range caveat
calm salmon
high barrier to entry though, based on player skill
calm salmon
I guess my point is that vet's conditional skills are fine, its just that they're overshadowed by everything else not being conditional
so its not a problem with them, per se, its everything else being way too strong for no cost
and I outright do not think the solution is buffing the "bad" stuff
but bringing other things more in line with them, and slowly working back up from there.
sterile basalt
I think VoC cd nerf is fair but exe needs better uptime & the two nodes before it need some work
Infil should just have some of its modifiers baked into the ability itself
spare dome
lets crush some FKN bugs
rough galleon
It's your honor to die for super earth
And your duty to squash the fucker that killed you with your drop pod
spare dome
vis-a-vis Vet discussion there's just so much that needs to be fixed in their build that even broaching the subject is just a fucking tangle of topics
like right out of the gate, Survivalist has to go and then Veteran needs something new/buffed to replace it for themselves
Veteran has incredibly potent Keystones compared to the other classes but most effective builds still don't use any because of how stacked their regular nodes are, and spread out.
And then VoC is, well, VoC. And that brings in Overtoughness as a whole other subject.
So you're looking at like, 75% of a rework where the tree needs some nodes squashed together and nerfed to make the Keystones more appealing and all of that power needs to be accessible so that the class can have a functional baseline that's below whatever you want to call current Vet.
There's a lot you can do to fix Vet is the good news. The trees are flexible.
Sadly FatShork is SlowShork
Thankfully we have super awesome playtesters involved now. You can't have any real headway on this subject on any of the public forums/channels lol
The common opinion/refrain is still "buff the other ults/passives to VoC and Survivalist levels"
rough galleon
Did you come here to say it so you won't get your head bitten off
spare dome
yes
rough galleon
If every ult was as impactful as voc I'd farm plasteel in maelstrom
spare dome
and we already do, really
Overtoughness too strong.
50% uptime of Overtoughness is hysterical madness.
I was shocked when they buffed shout from 45 to 30s cooldown
Even just reverting that would be like, a start
But it's still 33% uptime by default and you have ample CDR to access
Just the 12% on your Curios makes a huge impact let alone Tactical Awareness
owel
the right moves do eventually happen its just not a very appealing time frame
and fuck i just enjoy bashing shit to death
quick gulch
Question, when people talk about breakpoints with things like the Rashad or anything else are they saying something is only good with basically none of the stackable combat buffs up and running? I.e. need to be able to oneshot a trash mob without stacking melee damage buffs like the Zealot's Sustained Assault? Like I've got an axe that lets me oneshot if I hit the weak point on things like bruisers and a lot of specials after killing a few enemies since Sustained Assault has built up a little
Maybe I'm overthinking it
spare dome
It's generally safe to assume you'll have things like Sustained Assault active.
fading vale
if free buff then assume free buff aka sustained assault
quasi marsh
i actually would take infil on multiple builds
if the pathing werent the literal worst thing in any tree
and exec bad
then see if ppl still only take voc
i really think voc is around the same power level as ctw personally
sterile basalt
Question, when people talk about breakpoints with things like the Rashad or anyt...
It’s generally assumed that you’ll have anything that’s easy to stack up & maintain
For zealot I’d put sustained assault in that, but duelist is more in the “maybe” category
quasi marsh
if anything with the dumb cd reset on crit on zealot tree, ctw feels even better
fading vale
nobody wants crit CDR to actually exist
sterile basalt
i really think voc is around the same power level as ctw personally
What’s ctw
quasi marsh
chastise the wicked
spare dome
FotF now
sterile basalt
Oh I just call it fury now
quasi marsh
i pretty much use voc the same way i use ctw
quasi marsh
except ctw gives more offensive bonuses vs voc defensive bonuses
quasi marsh
yes
i sprint at enemies
and when they start shooting me
i voc to shove them to the ground
unironically
LOL
well, m aybe the effective range of that tactic isnt quite as good as ctw
but that's what i mean by "more defensive vs more offensive"
spare dome
yea i definitely to not put them in the same ballpark lol
quasi marsh
like if u ask me if i'd run ctw on vet tree
i actually would probably
but that's just me
over voc i mean
maybe its just a playstyle thing
sterile basalt
If u could use any ability with any class I think I’d pick scrier’s gaze for veteran 100% the time
quasi marsh
but as far as I see, both stagger in an aoe and refill toughness and can be used either defensively to get out of a nasty spot, or offensively to push in further
the difference is, armor downgrade/dmg buff on ctw and actual movement in the ability, vs bigger stagger and yellow toughness on voc
also 2 charge
which is a nice perk in ctw's favor
either way idk if my comparison is gud but I'd like to see exec actually decent and infil pathing unfucked first before nerfs to voc
as it is, voc is taken mostly because there is no real other choice
most guns can hit their bps without exec so its just meaningless
infil needs an extra 4 points sacced into your tree pathing AKA no keystones if you want to take it
sterile basalt
either way idk if my comparison is gud but I'd like to see exec actually decent ...
For exe, I think the 2 nodes before it need buff and the actual ability itself needs some tuning
Killzone feels bad
Opening salvo is meme
Refresh should be changed to a flat +5s duration
spare dome
i mean i'd be fine with just rolling some of the current sidenodes on the other ults into the main node
they are expensive to kit out
quasi marsh
i mean i'd be fine with just rolling some of the current sidenodes on the other ...
for infil, the problem goes even beyond that
spare dome
but VoC still has to eat a nerf lol
quasi marsh
literally
sterile basalt
Infiltrate pathing is mega fucked
spare dome
VoC is dumbshit strong
quasi marsh
infil pays for the sins of survivalist and smoke nade
spare dome
and part of that is overtoughness being dumbshit strong
sterile basalt
but VoC still has to eat a nerf lol
CD nerf to 40 or 45s, good enough
quasi marsh
ur literally forced into the left side of the tree right before infil
sterile basalt
Gold toughness is a different problem
quasi marsh
so you have to path all the way to the other side
and then it also pays for the sins of demo stockpile
so even if you go into infil
you probably still want to dip right above voc anyway for the best standalone talent in the tree
spare dome
what do you mean forced left side
sterile basalt
Infil should have like both TDR and +dmg buffs just baked into ability
spare dome
are you one of those
quasi marsh
what do you mean forced left side
the best grenade and the best aura are on the left side
quasi marsh
well sure
you can also just not play infil too
but you're not talking meta then
the ability suffers by being far away from some of the best talents on the tree
that's my point
ofc you can just not take them
spare dome
its again the case that you cant touch up just one thing on vet because his tree is full of balance landmines
quasi marsh
but then you're objectively going to suffer in powerlevel for it relative to ppl that do
spare dome
survivalist can eat shit
spare dome
so i just dont take it
i dont consider it mandatory
and its not that hard to play without
quasi marsh
the other auras are actually good but vet players believe the other auras are bad bc of surv lul
i mean again
spare dome
ngl tho do use it with bolter
dense field
Move speed is good
quasi marsh
that doesnt mean infil pathing doesnt suffer when the overpowered aura is the furthest away possible from it
spare dome
but you dont need survivalist
quasi marsh
shredders are so by far the best grenade
spare dome
it's an on-paper huge bonus
quasi marsh
your'e still shoved to the left side
spare dome
but it's like 90% overkill
people win runs without survivalist aura on the table all the time
quasi marsh
ya and I also win auric mael with taxe4 and no gun
spare dome
when i have one on my team i just end every game with full ammo
quasi marsh
"you can win" is not really relevant in this discussion
spare dome
its just a thing people love to lean on
im saying dont feel so strongly compelled to take it
quasi marsh
i get that
north sedge
Scab melee only becomes significantly harder without survivalist
quasi marsh
but you can do whatever you want really, if its a matter of preference
spare dome
yeah but thats the quirk of maelstroms right
quasi marsh
but optimal pathing through the tree is stacked on the left side rn
initially
shredder + surv
spare dome
weird modifiers that make certain builds situationally better or worse
quick gulch
It’s generally assumed that you’ll have anything that’s easy to stack up & maint...
Thanks! And thanks @spare dome
quasi marsh
and to a lesser extent, voc also benefits from demo stockpile sitting right on top of it
there's just ver ylittle reason to go into any other ability outside of wanting to do it for the sake of it
sterile basalt
and to a lesser extent, voc also benefits from demo stockpile sitting right on t...
VoC has 2 of the best value nodes right above
quasi marsh
VoC has 2 of the best value nodes right above
yeah ppl dont realize how lowkey that also pushes people to it hard
every time i take infil i sigh
because i have to path to voc ANYWAY lul
to grab stockpile
sterile basalt
Tbh
If u take survivalist out
The aura pathing very heavily favours right side
dense field
VoC has 2 of the best value nodes right above
Below too. TA and Iron Will is pure money
sterile basalt
U have a 10% melee dmg node
spare dome
right side is very strong
sterile basalt
Which is incredibly valuable
quasi marsh
right side is strong
spare dome
agile engagement is also incredible
sterile basalt
You have agile engagement
quasi marsh
but its also punished by another sinner
sterile basalt
Also very strong
quasi marsh
smoke grenades lul
spare dome
5% crit node
sterile basalt
Going shredder then getting taxed for 10% melee + AE + move speed aura
I’d take that
I’m ok with that
quasi marsh
5% move speed above the smokes
the stuff up there doesn tmatter beccause of the shared node pathign
spare dome
thats better than ok lul
quasi marsh
it doesnt make a difference which side you take on the top row
spare dome
the sprint node + out for blood are both very good
they just arent CK good cause CK is still a bit dumbo
quasi marsh
Going shredder then getting taxed for 10% melee + AE + move speed aura
ya its playable, but there's a reason my helbore tayonet tree doesnt have a keystone
sterile basalt
If getting taxed a few points means I get access to some of the best +dmg nodes I’m fine with it
spare dome
i mean it's obvious on its face
quasi marsh
a lot of ppl are just gonna say fuck it and go surv/shredder/voc
spare dome
it's very strong and it's very comfortable
quasi marsh
bc it feels like you're being punished
that's the jist of it really
doing anything other than voc feels like ur being punished rn
spare dome
i dont think most Veterans/players even know what Overtoughness is doing for them.
but despite ignorance it still does very well for them
sterile basalt
Also can we just talk about how bottom right tree is very unbalanced
spare dome
because you just splash it out all the time
quasi marsh
even if you removed the yellow toughness ppl would still take voc is the funny thing
sterile basalt
I actually wonder how many people take skirmisher over 10% melee atk speed
spare dome
these nodes are wild
royal vortex
they just arent CK good cause CK is still a bit dumbo
the +1 stamina node is slept on
quasi marsh
these nodes are wild
that's the naughty corner line
literally they dumped the trash there xd
spare dome
uh
dense field
stam regen boost is slept on
quasi marsh
the suppression/born leader/for the empruh
sterile basalt
these nodes are wild
I stopped taking these
spare dome
ur dead
spare dome
the +1 stamina node is slept on
i do like extra stammies, thats true
quasi marsh
you get 5% melee on the way to desperado too though
spare dome
the -20% sprint cost tho
dense field
I will always take reciprocity
spare dome
goes a lot further
sterile basalt
And I play combat axe so as long as I get the 1 hit breakpoints I don’t care abt crits much
spare dome
no desperation on veteran
sterile basalt
The only Crit BP I care abt on combat axe is bulwark 1HS crit
quasi marsh
at first
spare dome
hot take
dense field
It's blazing piety in one node
spare dome
the best item there is suppression (most often but still situationally)
spare dome
youre already taking 25% and it's additive
75% extra suppression is actually a fucking lot
quasi marsh
i dont want ppl to suppress enemies
dense field
SUPPRESSION IS GOOD
spare dome
it's about stopping the shit you arent killing rn
sterile basalt
I run this rn
quasi marsh
it's about stopping the shit you arent killing rn
you say that and then someone suppresses the reaper im shooting "because they arent kiling them" and he covers his head
spare dome
then shoot it in the head youre good at that right
quasi marsh
reaper covers his head with his hand when he's suppressed
unless u can get a back angle you can't
quasi marsh
ok
spare dome
oh and i guess
quasi marsh
how annoying that is lol
spare dome
it's a monkee brain thing of "MY TARGET AAAAAH"
quasi marsh
its another thing if the other guy on the team is making me do it
i dont like having my target randomly yanked out from under me
by my teammates
sterile basalt
its another thing if the other guy on the team is making me do it
Ogryn ripper suppressing every enemy he points the gun at:
quasi marsh
because he wants to paly his terrifying barrage brauto build
spare dome
Braced Graia + Momentum is just
quasi marsh
anything worth suppressing doesnt even get suppressed in the first place
spare dome
hilarious
quasi marsh
if u could suppress ragers
spare dome
i just magdump towards the things that have guns
spare dome
and they all hard stop
quasi marsh
i'll take the L
but nah, suppress the literal most harmless elite in the game only
just press slide if ur dying xd
sterile basalt
If u could suppress shotgunners, the +% suppression node is maybe worth
quasi marsh
like the only way you can ever die to a gunner is if you're extremely, and i mean extremely out of position
like ur literally standing with your back to the wall with no cover out in narnia in front of everyone else out of position
otherwise u just press sprint or slide and walk away being bullet immune
sterile basalt
like the only way you can ever die to a gunner is if you're extremely, and i mea...
Torrent assassination right before ascender event
Could happen
You get suppressed by a bajillion gunners at 40m+ while fighting horde with no cover and there’s a demonhost in the middle
quasi marsh
Torrent assassination right before ascender event
thats bc people are dumbasses and hold right inf ront of the elevator
i always ping the shit out of the respawn house on the side
sterile basalt
Not elevator
spare dome
gunners yea
sterile basalt
The area below the ascender
spare dome
since they hold their position
but reapers, when you really fuck up
and they just walk you to death
sterile basalt
Gunners stay on staircase and just beam u at 40m+
sterile basalt
Torrent assassination
quasi marsh
right
sterile basalt
Not chasm station
quasi marsh
the part where you drop down? or
sterile basalt
Right past sewers
quasi marsh
the medstation area?
quasi marsh
ya that place
sterile basalt
And a bajillion gunners camp staircase and beam u at 40m+
No cover
Horde spawn
BoN comes in to rail your ass
quasi marsh
lol
sterile basalt
And u could be yeeted off the map by a random pox burster
spare dome
And no goddamn railings around the edges
quasi marsh
well idk how much suppression would help in that scenario either, its best to clear ahead when you have the sightline before you drop down
sterile basalt
And no goddamn railings around the edges
^
spare dome
oh thats the fun part with that area
sterile basalt
That’s the one map that comes to mind when gunners do become a massive fucking problem if u don’t deal with them quickly