veteran-class

[hybrid plover]

I would still like to see some ADM adjustments for some weapons to be a little better at carapace.

[tall torrent]

Melee psyker is unaffected cuz it gets crit and finesse

[hybrid plover]

But just having less of the carapace head honchos is a good start to me.

[tall torrent]

Staff Psyker was the uncanny merchant this whole time

[torpid grotto]

There were only like 30 crushers spawning per h40 already 😭

[pastel yew]

I didnt mind there being so many, though I guess less is better. I know performance has gotten super unstable for a lot of people in the upper tiers of difficulty due to the density

[tall torrent]

Agreed I think they should give DC sword H smiter 3 ADM vs carapace

https://klipy.com/gifs/amor-263

[hollow ibex]

Nooo my beloved

[pastel yew]

devilclaw could be so fun if it wasnt awful into carapace and if its parry was remotely skill based

I'm struggling to think of a more forgiving parry mechanic in video games

[tall torrent]

Make it do auto parry if u perfect block with normal block button

[pastel yew]

that could be cool

[tall torrent]

Instead of having to use the special

[pastel yew]

I like that a lot actually

[hybrid plover]

It kinda is skill based tbh. The window is forgiving. But you can't just throw out parries in a horde willy nilly either unless it's psyker or scum (lol)

[tall torrent]

I hate that it is 2 different keybinds

[pastel yew]

you cant throw them out without thought yeah but like, if you're not just spamming the button you're not going to miss your parry

[hybrid plover]

The two classes with abrasively good stamina management and one of them literally not requiring stamina to block at all

[hearty panther]

i block with brain

[pastel yew]

usually parry mechanics are higher risk, higher reward

[hearty panther]

ow my head

[pastel yew]

having to use the parry to have any hope at killing crushers makes me so sad

[tall torrent]

Just so u know this is the first actually impactful & significant psyker nerf since they nuked quell cancel spamming

[hybrid plover]

The gamble of parrying a crusher overhead

[pastel yew]

people scripting that was so mind numbing to play with

the minigun

[hybrid plover]

Good, let's keep em coming lmao

[pastel yew]

I still dont get why they made psyker have way more toughness

I thought the justification for them having absurd dps was they were meant to be a glass cannon

then they unglass'd the cannon

[torpid grotto]

The pick rate in havoc was pretty low

If you got hit by 2 groaners you insta died

[pastel yew]

mmh, I think that was more a call to fix the flat penalty to toughness

than to give them more honestly

especially when they have so much recovery baked into their tree and already ignore some of the other harsh modifiers

[torpid grotto]

They made psyker way too tanky yeah

[tall torrent]

Given psyker’s current mixed horde dps they honestly deserve like 75 instead of 125 toughness

[hearty panther]

two more talent points, you say?

[torpid grotto]

Then everyone goes back to playing book bot

Path of least resistance

[pastel yew]

whole game too tanky

reject gold toughness, reject tank meta, make everyone die to two groaners

[tall torrent]

Psyker should be unable to receive gold toughness

https://klipy.com/gifs/amor-263

[torpid grotto]

Or love

[pastel yew]

I miss when gunners were cracked for a very short amount of time

[tall torrent]

Warp tainted

Lore reason

[torpid grotto]

Nahh the 1.0 havoc was hell

[pastel yew]

unloved by the emperor

[pastel yew]

I liked it

I will say it wasnt good

but I do think there was a middle ground to be struck

between them being that insane and mostly fully reverting them

[hybrid plover]

I would not say they were reverted tbf

[pastel yew]

unless they've been changed since afaik they literally just rolled back the changes they made

[tall torrent]

No it’s somewhere in the middle

[pastel yew]

I'd take everything in the game being a glass cannon, even myself... over everything being silly tanky and having a lot of health

[hybrid plover]

Have you been lasered by a h40 fodder gun?

[pastel yew]

my comments on balance are basically old person shouts at cloud I've not actively played this game in forever

most of the changes they've brought in I've really not liked, waiting on new class to drop

maybe I'll regrind new havoc to see if its fun

rotten armor changing them to infested means heavy sword gains

[tall torrent]

It’s for people that understand that love isn’t coming for them

[pastel yew]

fuckk

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[pastel yew]

its such a huge time grind too

its honestly so off putting having mostly been away forever

I dont think I'd be able to reliably drop into high havoc at this point anyhow but the thought of having to grind through the clearance levels makes me big cry

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/504094319075131402/1128795998924316722/egg.gif

[torpid grotto]

Games are still really fun if you play without flame staff or a hive scum that’s too good

[pastel yew]

idk genuinely if they just ported havoc 1.0 gunners to auric maelstrom I think I'd be happy my genuine unfiltered dogshit opinion

[pastel yew]

is hive scum that cracked?

I've not really heard much since the changes they had

pickpocket nerf etc

[hybrid plover]

Extremely

[pastel yew]

does seem kinda problematic to stack damage with the downside being "game harder"

[tall torrent]

Lemme put it this way

[pastel yew]

as someone who is good isnt going to care

[hybrid plover]

I've been not playing it much because they're so abrasively overtuned rn

And if I do

[tall torrent]

Rampage hive scum with Rashad is power sword hybrid vet

Without any of the downsides from power sword

[torpid grotto]

Yeah if you know how to optimally abuse needle dot on bosses and get good luck with grenade drops. You do flame staff level dps

[hearty panther]

i see rampage scum my eyes roll and 1/2 the time i dodge tbh

[hybrid plover]

I exclusively use the not so overpowered stuff

And it's still overpowered

Heavy Sword Scum is a drug lemme tell you.

[pastel yew]

honestly the needle pistol is so strange to me as pickpocket as a node seemed strongest with it

and then they nerfed pickpocket in a way

that mostly affects needlepistol + melee the least

[torpid grotto]

The nerf just means you have to occasionally put yourself at risk instead of never being at risk

[pastel yew]

yeah this is most of what I was running

its crazy how much nicer the heavy sword feels on other classes than on zealot

[torpid grotto]

U crazy

I luv hsword zealot

[hybrid plover]

Hsword zealot is Hella fun

[pastel yew]

I think the only thing I enjoy on zealot anymore is thammer and their throwing knives

I wish I could have throwing knives on every class

it'd fix me I think

[hybrid plover]

Thing is that the crusher spam was just so egregious that it was getting phased out

[torpid grotto]

Just pray for a dreg seed

[pastel yew]

lol

[torpid grotto]

Rager feast

[pastel yew]

I might play more zealot with it, but idk with hive scum out I feel like they sorta took everything I liked from zealot anyway and just made it more fun

faster, bigger numbers, squishier

[hybrid plover]

Zealot still has their place imho

[torpid grotto]

Yeah pretty much

[pastel yew]

I miss old fury of the faithful

old fury of the faithful + shotgun might still genuinely be one of the most fun interactions I've had in this game

[hybrid plover]

But mostly as a book bot or boss deleter

[pastel yew]

book bot isnt fun and boss deleter isnt much either

[torpid grotto]

Fury zel is Temu hive scum but with until death

[pastel yew]

it sucks because I like the thunderhammer a lot, but don't really like just deleting bosses

there was a class I was playing in vermintide that had this issue too

the uhh... gruber grail knight?

[tall torrent]

Zealot gimmick is shroudfield

[pastel yew]

smite cool, destroy boss fast less cool

[torpid grotto]

Zealot gimmick is stealth right when ur running up to a shotgunner pack so they all target the other guy at once and evaporate him

[pastel yew]

I'd much rather they toned the boss damage down on the thammer and made its general kill speed a bit nicer

community are fine with stealth now?

[tall torrent]

They can just add a damage cap per hit to monsters

[pastel yew]

I remember a lot of people crying about it previously

[torpid grotto]

No one runs it cus it takes some skill to pull off

It’s forgotten in the discourse

[pastel yew]

damage cap for bosses would be good

the boss rush maelstroms really fun until someone brings a thunderhammer or some other instant boss deleter and completely ruins it

[hybrid plover]

I feel a hint of sublimation in this from me aggro dumping you in that Riser run lmfaooooo

[tall torrent]

The most impactful vet ability is stance
The most impactful zealot ability is shroud
People are just slow to picking up on that

[pastel yew]

stance the goat

[torpid grotto]

I don’t even remember that 😭

[sharp epoch]

whats defines impactful

[torpid grotto]

I play with another guy who always runs stealth zel and aggro dumps on me

[sharp epoch]

like good for the team or yourself

[tall torrent]

Both

[pastel yew]

stance is the epitome of the best offence being the best defence... just kill em

[hybrid plover]

It was when we got to the Riser part before we hit the button and then out of nowhere you just took a bunch of damage

[pastel yew]

honestly its nice to see exec stance well regarded, everyone used to shit on that ability so unfairly

[torpid grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-brick-meme-break-explode-gif-13868715770986833670

[hybrid plover]

And then you mentioned the stealth and I'm like "oops"

[pastel yew]

though admittedly it has been... buffed... and its direct competitor nerfed

[tall torrent]

Before 1.9 it wasn’t that good

[pastel yew]

was 1.9 when it got its tankslop toughness additions

[thorn lark]

stance is toughness all the time and twbs at home right now

[tall torrent]

After 1.9 it’s really good but probably not in the way they intended it to be

[tall torrent]

It’s more than TWBS

[pastel yew]

everything must be tankslop, everything must regen 4000000000000% toughness on press F

[hybrid plover]

"At home"

[tall torrent]

TWBS doesn’t give uninterruptible

Stance does

[hybrid plover]

I mean it's basically always active and well

That

[thorn lark]

ohhh right

[pastel yew]

am I stupid, why would that be impactful

your ability almost immediately fades out of ranged?

and swaps to your ranged weapon

[thorn lark]

you need to pay for another talent to be interruptible 🙁

[thorn lark]

no

[hybrid plover]

Because Exe Stance is not a ranged ability

[tall torrent]

Stance is good because stance is stun immune + wallhack + mega toughness gain, so that u can melee everything way better

[hybrid plover]

It's a QoL ability that just happens to also give you extra ranged damage

[tall torrent]

It directly fixes one of the biggest issues power sword faces

[pastel yew]

what have they done to stance... my beloved

[sharp epoch]

I agree exe better, but chorus is very impactful on havoc compared to stealth

[tall torrent]

U can play it like a ranged ability

But it’s more than a ranged ability

It’s a second keystone

[hybrid plover]

Chorus isn't doing a damn thing about the BoN blockading the worst position possible

[tall torrent]

And the ranged benefits are secondary to me

[pastel yew]

wait, do melee kills refresh it now?

[tall torrent]

All kills

[hybrid plover]

Shroudfield can and will do something about it

[pastel yew]

ah... thats.. gross

[hybrid plover]

They're impactful in completely different ways.

[sharp epoch]

That's probably one of the only situations its different, but every other boss or armor blob will get stopped by chorus

[tall torrent]

Exe stance power sword vs rager mixed horde is some of the most peak melee in this game

It’s just so good

[hybrid plover]

Captain skipping. Basically being most of the boss damage. Dealing with specialists in really pesky spots. Safely destroying bulwark walls

Shroudfield's got a lot going for it

But the thing is

You actually have to think a little bit.

[pastel yew]

watching exec stance become another thing to just help you tank through shit is so sad though

[hybrid plover]

While anyone can just run chorus and have an impact.

[tall torrent]

Well no it has the ranged damage benefits which are actually relevant

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean, it remains I just dislike the tankification of the game

[thorn lark]

my main problem with shroudfield is people trying to kite the boss when it is not needed instead of reducing his movement

[tall torrent]

It’s rly more like u press F to turn into veteran pro max plus ultra

[pastel yew]

its part of why scum was so refreshing

[tall torrent]

It’s not actually tanky

[thorn lark]

every time I press F, the boss is too far

[tall torrent]

U just recover from damage quick

[pastel yew]

stun immune and mega toughness gain?

mmh

[hybrid plover]

No actual damage reduction though

[tall torrent]

U will still eat shit if u get blasted by plasma gunner or multiple shotgunner at once

[hybrid plover]

Vet is the only class that has this contingency currently.

[thorn lark]

it´s not castigator lol

[pastel yew]

mmh, castigators got buffed as well semi recently

[hybrid plover]

So when your toughness runs out, that's it.

[pastel yew]

I've not kept up much with arbites

[tall torrent]

So u need to actually engage with the game to not eat hits

But stance will help u a lot vs ranged

[pastel yew]

how easy is it to keep the uptime in melee though

[sharp epoch]

It kinda does by keeping one of vets tdrs always active, Iron Will

[pastel yew]

I assume all enemy highlights arent being run

[tall torrent]

Just ogryn highlights

Cuz it gives u 9s duration

[pastel yew]

huhh, interesting I didnt know that changed

[fathom loom]

I've seen some builds that have Trench Fighter Drill & Superiority Complex, and some don't. Do y'all see those as "flex" talents or pretty important.

[sharp epoch]

important

[hearty panther]

9 seconds is a laughably long time to find a kill with

[fathom loom]

It's kinda hard kinda parsing through things and making sense of it all

[hearty panther]

any special, any elite, in game modes where the AI is constantly shitting them out

it would be aberrant as fuck to have a game with a 9 second period where not a single taggable enemy spawned

[pastel yew]

ah it being mostly anti ranged chip is less grim

that does look cracked though

[tall torrent]

Me when I press F and become veteran pro max plus ultra for as long as I keep killing

[fathom loom]

Also, how about Serrated Blade on a Combat Axe? Serrated Blade + Field Improv, or just one?

[tall torrent]

It perfectly captures veteran

One second u get shit on by ranged

[slow sky]

not recommended

[sharp epoch]

pick one

[tall torrent]

Next second u kill smth and ur back

[slow sky]

serrated blade works best on weapons that attack fast, have good cleave that dont one shot, or both

caxe is neither

[tall torrent]

Combat axe, just go field improv, don’t spend extra points that row

[fathom loom]

@slow sky Okay that's what I thought. I was playing in the Psykhanium and didn't notice a huge difference.

[slow sky]

it doesnt attack fast and its cleave is basically exclusively one shots

its just not worth it

[fathom loom]

The main thing I have trouble with is kinda determining what's important and what's more optional

[slow sky]

that comes with time as you get more familiar with weapons and stuff

[tall torrent]

Check my guide pinned here

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1503503363034321077/Screenshot_20260316_150002.png?ex=6a03961f&is=6a02449f&hm=159a537b2f7b3858390306b3bd633dddd31631b90dd93bcd56dd09c219db0d72&

U can also just go off this for now

It works for majority of vet weapons

Last point depends on the ranged weapon u use

[fathom loom]

Thanks. For example, I've been enjoying the Combat Axe and Plasma Gun - Weapon Specialist.

Would you put that point in one of the Weapon Specialist (ammo reload or the 20% toughness) or put it in a +25 toughness node?

[tall torrent]

For plasma I run On Your Toes for weapon specialist

+25 toughness is also very good

Up to u really

[fathom loom]

How much do you like Out for Blood? I've always kinda used it but haven't tried without it, so hard to say how much value I'm getting from it.

[slow sky]

out for blood is 5% toughness on literally any kill, so it sees the most value when youre doing basically everything

[tall torrent]

OFB is also good

With that said I like OYT more because it’s more on demand

[slow sky]

it also is additive with the melee kill toughness so that means you get 10% from each melee

[tall torrent]

With OYT u can recover from a bad situation really fast

[slow sky]

shredders are aoe so they can also give you a ton through that

[fathom loom]

OFB would be good for a Born Leader / Focus Target build then

[tall torrent]

Born leader is ok but I don’t run it

[fathom loom]

I feel like knowing if I over or under-index into Toughness oriented talents/nodes is what is somewhat tripping me up. Although maybe not a huge deal in the grand scheme.

[tall torrent]

Focus target is good, it’s just more damage (hardest hitting vet melee possible) but Rashad like atk speed from WS a lot

[tall torrent]

You pretty much can’t overspec toughness on talents

[slow sky]

i use out for blood on my double barrel build cuz that thing just turns into a wide railgun, so i can look at a group and instantly get a ton of toughness back instantly, and the rest of the time im meleeing so that 10% puts in a lot of work
the elite kill one is the overall best toughness node he gets but it really depends on if theres elites up and youre the one killing them, whereas out for blood just needs kills from anything so its just passively there all the time, albeit at a lower value

[fathom loom]

Yeah, I like to play all classes, but started and mainly played Ogryn. Where I'm used to taking all the +toughness regen talents like Weapon brace + attack single + attack groups) so when I get more into other classes, it's what is tricky to me.

From what I notice, there are some common points of deviation I see from build to build. Usually it's the groupings of (Trench Fighter Drill + Superiority) (+10% Ranged + Precision Strikes) (+25 toughness + Bring it Down)

As well as the +1 grenade / tinkerer

The build that Guide WIP showed as a template has all those first 3 groupings so that's probably a good place as a foundation.

[slow sky]

the biggest difference is, most of the general toughness replenishment nodes are kill based for vet

on kill is a significantly taller ask than on hit

sure youre killing a lot, but you might not always be getting the kills when you need them

he does have new avenues as of the last few patches, like exe stance giving toughness replenishment, and catch a breath just being passive, and on your toes being a thing too (still requires a kill but procs on a seperate action)

but those become more build specific, or dont have the same immediate potential of the other ones in terms of covering up a ton of lost toughness in a short amount of time

its a similar reason why arbites is a toughness monster too

[torpid grotto]

If ur very aggro with melee out for blood is so good

I never skip it

[slow sky]

he has tons of toughness regen, and by comparison have the same value strength as vets nodes, but so many of them dont require kills so they are always relevant

(the higher tdr does help a lot there too, same in ogryns case, but thats another difference)

but vet still gets a decently high amount himself so

im just yapping now but things like these are important factors when looking at toughness regen

like on zealot, second wind doesnt have particularly high potential for restoring all of your toughness, but it still is one of the best in the game due to its condition

youre gonna be dodging a lot, its relevant against melee, ranged, bosses, anything

[hearty panther]

thats cuz ur always breakin wind

[slow sky]

no kills required
no distance requirements
just dodge an attack

[hearty panther]

enemies within enemies without tho

[tepid otter]

Helbore any good on Havoc, if so which mark.

[hearty panther]

zealot is at their happiest when surrounded by heretics

[slow sky]

that too
the new version of ewew (i am totally biased because they implemented my suggestion for it) has a condition thats fulfilled by what zealot does

[tall torrent]

ur suggestion is gud

[slow sky]

and its a fair amount over time, its not instant but it plugs small gaps, the big restores can be left to the abilities and kills

[slow sky]

the slowest firing mark, with exe stance and marksmans focus

one of the best, if not the best weapon for a ranged heavy vet build into havoc

@tepid otter youre lookin at something like this

https://youtu.be/Mv9aRrDIlfw?si=L46MNuIubKbg154q&t=20

[tepid otter]

holy one taps

i'll havea to go over the talent trees again, i havent read up on the changes

[slow sky]

it can 2 shot crushers to the head with your buffs stacked up (basically just exe+mmf so thats not hard at all)

in h40

also one of the builds where dclaw shines as a horde/defensive weapon, but heavy sword also does the job well too, way better at offense

[fathom loom]

@slow sky Thanks for the advice on the Vet Toughness differences. Guide WIP mentioned it's not bad taking toughness talents/nodes. If I wanted to take both 25 toughness nodes at the bottom as well as Out for Blood. Is it worth losing out on (+10% ranged + Precision) (Bring It down / Trench Fighter / Superiority), in your opinion? example, is I'm using Combat Axe + Plasma Gun.

[brave acorn]

Ewew?

[slow sky]

both of those weapons care about breakpoints a lot more, so id personally check to see the differences against enemies with and without certain nodes to see if it makes a significant impact

like if it changes a 3 hit kill to a 2 hit kill on an important enemy, that might be worth taking

[quiet lark]

enemies within enemies without

[hearty panther]

its zealot stuff

[slow sky]

but its also worth noting +25 toughness is additive to your base toughness which is what gets multiplied by curios and stuff, and your max toughness is what all the other nodes operate off of, so the higher your max toughness is, the more those nodes actually restore

[fathom loom]

@slow sky Yeah, I've been in the Psykhanium getting a feel for things. For sure though, one thing I learned so far from you and others is Serrated Blade isn't too needed on Combat Axe

So that freed up a point

[slow sky]

i dont really use plasma and ive not used combat axe on vet in a long long time so i wouldnt have any specifics in terms in terms of for/against certain +damage nodes that now exist which is why im basically saying to check it yourself lol
serrated i just know doesnt pair with what caxe just does in general

similar situation for zealot, they have scourge which stacks bleed too and gives crit when you hit bleeding enemies, but you one shot most things with caxe so it just doesnt work with it there too

[tall torrent]

the build I sent can hit all major breakpoints for both even into havoc
and it has that 1 free point so he can basically slot it into whatever he likes

[fathom loom]

Right that makes sense. From your experience with Plasma Gun & Weapon Specialist, do you see good value with the Reload based on stacks talent or is it more of a luxury?

[tall torrent]

well, even if it didn't get all the best breakpoints, u won't get much better cuz to go further beyond would require changing aura and keystone

[tall torrent]

not needed, it's an IQ tax

just learn reload cancel for plasma

[fathom loom]

Right, yeah, it is the Y+Y (weapon swap) once the number changes right?

[tall torrent]

don't need swap

[slow sky]

that reload node is very specific to weapons with low ammo counts, giving you the most bang for your buck

[tall torrent]

just sprint cancel

[slow sky]

revolvers and double barrel shotguns

since it rounds up

[fathom loom]

@slow sky Right yeah, I wanted to try the Double Barrel Flechette with that at some point soon. To try weapons that aren't as common.

@tall torrent Oh, as in like, just briefly sprint and stop?

[slow sky]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9fad575e-f27e-44fc-bd9f-f62dd7ed4001/how-to-have-fun

my most used vet build

as of this patch though, id swap uncanny for SC

[tall torrent]

ye

[slow sky]

lemme edit that

[tall torrent]

I was actually considering decimator + TAS

[slow sky]

i tried it and its fine, it doesnt have the same carapace impact as SC though and sc is literally still sc

[fathom loom]

@tall torrent I had a feeling about that talent being a "tax" / luxury. Like, it felt nice to use, but I'm sure I could find time to reload. Especially now knowing about sprint cancel.

[slow sky]

tas is still one of the better blessings but its competition is just too rough

[tall torrent]

yea u have a 45r gun that 1 taps most things

u will definitely have time to reload lol

[fathom loom]

@slow sky Thanks, been looking to use both the Sapper Shovel and Double Barrel, so it's twice as intriguing to me

With less Carapace now, do you guys find yourself adjusting weapons that have +25 Carapace damage, or just depends on breakpoints still?

[slow sky]

i havent run +carapace on anything in a while ngl

[fathom loom]

@slow sky Noted. With weapons I'm not too familiar with, I tend to just go with what I most see, and if it feels okay, I tend to keep it the same. Not the best methodology for trying everything out.

[slow sky]

im just stupid and i do flak unyielding on melees and flak unarmored/maniac on ranged weapons to cover what i use them against the most
because i just dont care enough lmfao

[fathom loom]

But it's good to hear others talk about it and share their thoughts. Helps a lot

[tall torrent]

depends on weapon
I still run it for most weapons that innately do ok/well vs carapace

[fathom loom]

@tall torrent That build you recommended earlier. I saw it had Frags instead of Kraks. Is that a response to the latest update?

[tall torrent]

kinda? imo they were similar value before anyway

now maybe frag more value than krak

but krak still gud

if u want krak, swap grenadier for grenade tinkerer

[fathom loom]

I saw previously there was an interaction with Weapon blessings and Frag grenades but never tried it. Though I assume Frags is still good regardless of it

[tall torrent]

yes

[brittle apex]

Frag bleed dot used to get boosted by rending

[fathom loom]

Thanks a lot for this tip. I would've 100% assumed to take grenadier and tinkerer regardless of grenade.

[brittle apex]

so uncanny strike + frags was a viable option

[tall torrent]

with +25% dmg vs flak perk on ur in hand weapon, u get ~2k dmg vs flak base enemies from 2 frags

[tall torrent]

still does, global rending just does that

[fathom loom]

So if I take frags, I can just take Grenadier and free up a point

[tall torrent]

wdym free up

[brittle apex]

Sorry, yes, still boosted by rending, but no more rending from uncanny

[fathom loom]

@tall torrent Oh, what I meant was previously. I was taking both Grenadier and Tinkerer. Your explanation is if I take frags, I can take grenadier. And if I want Krak, take Tinkerer.

[tall torrent]

yes

[fathom loom]

Yeah, I was previously taking Grenadier and Tinkerer regardless. Not really thinking of how Tinkerer affects Frags

[tall torrent]

u usually don't need both

tinkerer for frag is not bad

[fathom loom]

More of an opportunity cost sorta thing?

[tall torrent]

ye

[fathom loom]

Combat Axe would be considered good against Carapace, relatively speaking? The idea of frags is interesting. Maybe it will help cover some gaps, along with Plasma Gun.

I think I got conditioned by reading/watching a lot of content about Carapace and having to index hard into it. With the update changing things up, maybe a good time to experiment. After all, I suppose there's no risk haha

[tall torrent]

yes, it's good vs carapace

I will also say that combat axe's best user atm is hive scum

it's actually like the best melee weapon, period, on hive scum

[fathom loom]

Will keep that in mind. I've just been comfortable using Bone Saw + Needle + Stimm Supply. Didn't try Shivs super hard cause it tires out my trigger finger though I know it is good. Will look into Combat Axe for it soon.

By the way, what situations should I keep an eye on when using Frags now instead of Kraks? Just overwhelming mixed hordes, as a starting point?

Though I guess with Grenadier + the other regen talents, it's okay to be a bit liberal with usage.

[slow spade]

teammates near barrel? toss frag UwU

[fathom loom]

@slow spade I was learning/testing swing patterns on a new weapon and was focusing on the weapon, not the background. And accidentally hit a barrel and launched a teammate off the map and he went on huge tirade in text chat on how this community was worse than LoL. I never felt so bad.

[stuck gorge]

mixed hordes or if you need stagger

iirc they stagger crushers at least?

[slow spade]

clearly they were flirting and you should have reciprocated

[stuck gorge]

you should’ve shown them your fire barrel

[fathom loom]

@slow spade I'm on console so it takes forever to type lol, then he left.

@stuck gorge Good to know about the best times to throw them. To get at least the right overall mindset of usage

[slow spade]

unlucky, there's always more fish in the sea UwU

[stuck gorge]

also using them to secure a revive is a good idea too

if it’s at least safe from gunners toss one and start reviving

[fathom loom]

Ah yeah good point. Do you like running revive speed perks on Vet curios?

[stuck gorge]

I don’t usually change my curio setup across any character

Usually 3x toughness + 3 minor toughness 3 revive speed 2 gunner 1 sniper

[fathom loom]

@stuck gorge Ah that's more than fair enough. On Vet, I've been learning and rolling with 3x toughness + 3 Combat Ability + 3 minor toughness + 3 stamina regen. But feel like I should add in some revive or gunner. Even though I use that Talent for Shout that revives others.

You mentioned frags as a way to revive teammates, so I'll try it out and see if I have enough time to revive teammates with/without revive speed to see how it feels with the frag stagger.

[stuck gorge]

Revive speed also applies to assist speed btw

Lemme get the chart rq

abbreviations are the class specific revive speed talents

[fathom loom]

@stuck gorge Thanks, really incredible information. Very specific

[stuck gorge]

Yeah just search up kulis in steam guides for even more info

he’s got up to date info on basically anything you could want to know in darktide

[fathom loom]

Yeah, I heard it's super detailed. I also just got introduced to Guide WIP's guide which is incredibly great too. I used to only play Ogryn so I remember a year or so ago having the Ogrynomicon as a source of info.

This Discord got a lot of good people answering questions / offering tips, for the things that aren't always answered or discussed in a GamesLantern build.

Like the how and why / play patterns / behaviour etc

[tall torrent]

if overwhelming mixed horde (ragers, maulers, etc), use 2 frag for dmg
otherwise u can use 1 to stagger enemies (quite useful vs ogryns and bosses)

[formal spire]

What blessings should i go on plasma veteran for my dueling sword?

[stone zealot]

revive speed on curio ALWAYS

[hollow ibex]

Nah

https://tenor.com/view/rocky-drago-if-he-dies-dolph-lundgren-angry-gif-16346458

[tidal fox]

never neglect revive speed

[formal spire]

3x toughness or 1xhp 2x toughness ?

[tidal fox]

triple T sahur

[hollow ibex]

Never triple toughness

It’s a noob trap

HP is very important

[formal spire]

i see

[hollow ibex]

1 hp stam toughness is common

Or 2 toughness and 1 hp

[formal spire]

thanks

[formal spire]

and what weapon you recommend for plasma veteran, dueling or falchion?

[hollow ibex]

Prob falchion tbh

DS is easy and safe

But has abysmal horde clear

If you’re using the plasma a lot, the long cooldown on the falch isn’t a huge issue

[formal spire]

thanks man

i will consider that

[fervent hemlock]

jesus

i just saw the patch notes

do they just really hate vet or something?

[dapper coyote]

"Fuck Dswords and all uncanny users"

[slate gate]

Even while bros nerfed he’s still good in havoc 40s

[hollow ibex]

I don’t think vet was singled out

[fervent hemlock]

"we reduced the spawn rate of carapace enemies so we nerfed your kraks by increasing regen cd by 50%"

[slate gate]

I just count the brittleness change as a team helper can still 2-3 stab every mob in game lol

[dapper coyote]

used Zealot Crushers and become untouchable

[somber axle]

Yeah the extra 30 sec on Demo Stockpile for Kraks is fine imo

We also have Demo Team

[dapper coyote]

Big safety stick

[somber axle]

A lot of other classes have no grenade regen at all

Crusher spawns have taken a big hit

[fervent hemlock]

that's something im surprised didn't get changed

[somber axle]

It's fine

[dapper coyote]

Real, i need more stunstorm nades

[somber axle]

They might take another look at it after the make the balance pass on Bulwarks but idk

[dapper coyote]

Control the flow is very nice

[fervent hemlock]

at 90s is it even worth it to take it now

[somber axle]

Yes

even 90 sec it's worth

[fervent hemlock]

and just rely on the demo team roll instead

[slate gate]

Gotta think you still can regen nades off mobs so does it really even bother to have a extra 30seconds to wait

[somber axle]

since you're always going Survivalist Aura your only nodes you can reach on the way down are Grenadier and Demo Stockpile

would you rather have a Krak back every 90 sec

or carry 1 more Krak with the chance to throw 2?

[slate gate]

Both 👁️👄👁️

[dapper coyote]

Get all 3 lmao and nuke everyone

[slate gate]

lol

[somber axle]

Grenadier, Tinkerer, Demo Stockpile, Demo Team

and just all grenades always

[dapper coyote]

Only vet gets nade nodes, and i fucking wished zealot got something that regens nades

[fervent hemlock]

I'm really hoping they take another pass at talent points and move blitz, abilities, aura and keystone to be separate from the tree and give better customization/control for builds

[hollow ibex]

Vet tree second rework when

[slate gate]

Vet tree second nerf when lmao

[fervent hemlock]

watch them roll demo team into competitve urge

1/20 on spec/elite too good, better turn it into 1/40 on any ally kill instead

[slate gate]

[fervent hemlock]

which would be pretty terrible considering a vet that would be relying on that for reloading grenades would be doing literally no damage to try and get as many procs as possible

[somber axle]

I hope if they rework the tree again they change Covering Fire

Let it apply the buff to Vet ONLY if the Vet is applying the buff to an ally

so you're never going to get the buff for just shooting things unless an ally is near

[fervent hemlock]

Make Covering Fire a coherency check skill

kills grand a stacking buff to you and allies in coherency, 2.5% per ally, stacks to 20%, lasts 10s

[hollow ibex]

Remove covering fire

[drowsy perch]

also

[fervent hemlock]

give us a select fire infantry lasgun

[drowsy perch]

how do u use "on stagger" blessing for shovel

[fervent hemlock]

you bonk

[drowsy perch]

is it just the special attacks?

cause it doesnt seem to do anything with heavies or lights

[fervent hemlock]

you bonk more

[somber axle]

This is a good idea

[drowsy perch]

and i dont want to replace decimator or whatever with impact

[somber axle]

I'd also be in favour of removing it if we get a really fun idea replacing it that isn't an auto pick over the others around it

[fervent hemlock]

remove withering fire

that shit is useless

[somber axle]

wait no I like Withering Fire

it's niche

Hotshot Withering Fire Helbore Mk V

[drowsy perch]

false

[somber axle]

9 cleave

[drowsy perch]

withering fire is great on certaiin weapons

[somber axle]

like you turn your Helbore from 3 cleave

to 9 cleave

that's significant

[drowsy perch]

its actually goted on plasma gun

[somber axle]

it's just that usually you should take Field Improv

[fervent hemlock]

covert op is also useless

[drowsy perch]

and revovler

[somber axle]

that's way more useful

[drowsy perch]

its also good on heavy laspistol

[somber axle]

and there's no guarantee you'll have another Vet with it

unless you're running with friends and can coordinate

plus it's not like Serrated Blade is an auto pick ever

that's also niche

[fervent hemlock]

covert op is a useless skill, even if you try to take something like shredder with raking fire

[somber axle]

useful for a few weapons but you ignore it on anything else

Covert Op is useless yeah

[hollow ibex]

Now that’s useless lol

WiFi is fine

[somber axle]

I think Withering Fire is perfectly balanced

It's useful for a few weapons

It's not a choice that you're forced to take always

Like Skirmisher being such a massive want always

ugh

get rid of it

[drowsy perch]

also take both

i take field improv to get withering

[somber axle]

I don't like being too heavy on points in the middle

we're already taking Iron Will and Superiority Complex

like it's doable but for my Helbore tree I'm losing Exploit Weakness to get both

[drowsy perch]

i dont take SC most of the time

15% on only elites is meh compared to other stuff i can get

[somber axle]

I like it for making the Helbore better at taking out Ogryns

Mk V needs a bit more juice to make it consistent

[bold sierra]

yeah it's bloody great with agripana inf autogun, in Havoc you can kill 2 dreg ragers and a bunch of other enemies that several other weapons/marks can't is great

[steep flower]

Its a compensation for its nerf

[steep flower]

I don’t run it at all

Its fine

Too many points to sink into where there are other more important/build prefered talents to get

[willow prairie]

skirmisher is a near permanent 25% damage increase its huge

[steep flower]

Undoubtedly
Just talent cost wise ain’t there for many of my builds unless i go right which i mostly don’t

Like sinking a total of 4 talents is oof

Granted its nice bonuses but most of the time other things are more important

[drowsy perch]

fair but it makes m1 spam very viable

goes through like 2-3 enemies regardless

unless its an ogryn

[dapper coyote]

Hangon,

Bistols perk for bigger explosion is perc at all times for all explosive weapons right?

[steep flower]

Yes

[dapper coyote]

Indignatus Crusher go bigger boom

[steep flower]

You’re so late to the party all the candles burned out

[dapper coyote]

• i saw it can also perc Skull crusher to all its AoE targets as well

Hmmmm

[steep flower]

Yes; thunderous as well

[dapper coyote]

Hmmmmmmm

[steep flower]

Trauma too i think

[dapper coyote]

Crushers can't stop winning

https://tenor.com/view/let-it-ride-let-it-ride-diem-gif-13460879079669063039

[steep flower]

And thunderstrike

[dapper coyote]

Man, i like indignatus crusher so much already

Fuck playing the vet, he ain't got that safety stick

[desert viper]

saving this gif

im evil and thieflike

[dapper coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-bait-rage-baited-bait-roy-gif-8975135452437634328

[shrewd topaz]

so hows hellbore now with the less crushers

[dry cloak]

The same

Still shits on everything

[shrewd topaz]

was lowkey aids when crusher wall + team mates of all time

[bold sierra]

Played some H40 with Infantry Lasgun after yesterday's patch. It feels so STONKS for infantry lasgun.

genuinely don't have to worry about Crusher clown cars anymore

you can basically just take any melee that has slight bit of Carapace dmg and you're all set tbh.

[bold sierra]

shock mace lowkey STONKS this patch, the shocking special actually does pretyt decent dmg against Carapace + guaranteed stun. Now that there are a lot less crushers, that's pretty damn viable

[dapper coyote]

Shock mace doesn't get the stun the crowd special

Yeah sure it stuns one guy but i want that stuns and knocked the whole crowd tasting the floor for a few second

[willow prairie]

shock maul alway has good cara dps with special into h2 h3

problem is crusher clown car but that is less of a problem now

it still have bad cleave though

[tepid otter]

when peopel say the heaviest mk. do they mean the one with the highest dmg

[dapper coyote]

Yes

[dapper coyote]

100% correct

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-is-dead-spy-engineer-correct-right-gif-26313261

[willow prairie]

asm special cant cleave

[dapper coyote]

Light is the least dmg, Heavy is the heaviest dmg

Medium is in between

[tepid otter]

[dapper coyote]

Indignatus Crushers is fun

Now i see why some people refer to it as a big safety stick

[bold sierra]

not the best cleave, but still pretty serviceable, I played with it like 2-3 times in H40 be4, tho it's one of them melees that's best with Weapon Specialist.

pretty clunky without

Power Falchion is also SUPER STONKS this patch too, now that you dont have to worry about Crushers much anymore

[livid sphinx]

Soooo how's the new patch?

[vernal trench]

How was ur sleep

[bold sierra]

one of the best patches so far tbh

simple but effective

no more full anti-armor slop builds

[steep flower]

The usual; nothing changed in the pass years… still can’t sleep longer than 6h… trouble getting up… waryness…
But i get on time to work if i wake up early enough to wither away the tiredness

[vernal trench]

Oof damn

I played some more h40s

Was fun

Not much changed in the last year

[slow spade]

it got significantly easier as of like yesterday due to a roughly -35% crusher spawn and Rotting Armor being less of a cancer

[quiet lark]

maybe i'm in the minority but i think the changes were way too much, i only played about a dozen games (half of which were 40s, half of which were mid/high 20s), but the crusher reduction feels more around 70%. tbh i didn't have a big problem with the crusher numbers pre-patch so i know people might disagree with me

[bold sierra]

i think that wasn't about Havoc/Darktide, just in general last year for him lol

[slow spade]

ah

[slow spade]

at the very least, they did actually decrease crusher spawns

[bold sierra]

tbh, anything that makes non-fully-anti-armor loadouts more viable is good. You were still able to see a bunch of crusher clown cars even be4 (albeit a bit less than way back), whichs till restricted a lot of loadout varieties.

it's not like Crushers are fully gone, just in a pretty damn healthy amount now. I see 2-3 bundled up here and there still, just not in such a huge amount that makes weapons that don't do great carapace dmg feel useless. I'll take more Mauler/horde spawns any day.

[quiet lark]

yeah i agree in general, but i still think the decrease is way too much. i also often used loadouts considered non-meta / non-anti-armour in 40s along with teammates doing the same and genuinely think that there was a ton more viability than most players thought. i'm not against a slight tuning down of the carapace to further help with build viability but this felt like too drastic of a step imo.

[bold sierra]

You gotta admit tho, with how the meta was before the patch, mass crushers usually were always very "0 or 100", you either struggle with them or just outright easy mode, depending on what u bring, cuz most ppl were kinda inclined to bring at least 1 source of full-anti-carapace dmg that more or less deal with them with ease, very one-trick. Most of the deaths were from many other sources, like disablers, ragers, gunners, BOSSES and etc...that a lot of the times people don't know how to handle around them.

So this at the end of the day, just makes things less annoying, people still have to deal with a lot of other stuff that a lot of the times...probably require more finesse to deal with.

I played 3 H40 games yesterday, we still saw Crushers but not as much, my teammates still died from disablers, ragers and gunners and stuff lol, but it was 100% more enjoyable than be4 where u see massive chunks of metal all the time.

if anything, mass Crushers probably protected us a lot from Gunners lmao

[slow sky]

the additional ogryn reduction in havoc is kinda fucked up because youll find more crushers in auric than havoc now

like a good direction but havoc took it too far

[quiet lark]

agreed

[pseudo fiber]

I thought there were more ogryns in havoc by default or am I misremembering

[slow sky]

there are but the spawn changes kinda

made it weird

[bold sierra]

surely it's still chancy, I still see groyups of 3 crushers here and there when I was playing H40 yesterday.

[slow sky]

cuz they added an additional 15% reduction

i only saw 2 over the course of 6 minutes into a h40

and there were like 10ish total

[bold sierra]

i'm gonna count how many I saw in a recording I got lol

[bold sierra]

could also be a seed thing

I saw some H40 "solo/duo" vids where dude encountered like 0 crushers b4 lol

[bold sierra]

So far 30 mins into my 37mins H40 game record, I counted 21 Crushers so far, 4-5 instances where there wer 2-3 crushers together

and it's on dregs too, with majority spawn on gunners and ragers

lots of bulwarks tho

[quiet lark]

it's nice that they've said they're taking a look at changing bulwark numbers

[bold sierra]

maybe compared to Crushers, Bulwarks spawn roughly 2x more, not horrendously many

[quiet lark]

those have always frustrated me much more than crushers

[bold sierra]

they sit below Crushers for me cuz at least they can be dealt with WITHOUT anti-carapace stuff.

[bold sierra]

I counted 22 Crushers, give or take (cuz it was Cranial and maybe there were Crushers that died from that without appearing on killfeed) in my 37 mins Aegis Station H40 game, with dreg gunner/rager seed I believe. maybe 5 instances with 2-3 Crushers together.

All things considered, I think that's pretty damn decent. it mostly comes down to chance i think. It was also Aegis Station with certain parts that don't really spawn Crushers I think, like at the end.

[shrewd topaz]

just height gap them

[quiet lark]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-yachty-censored-not-drake-tech-support-gif-8658410013845332703

[torpid grotto]

yeah outside of rot it was totally fine with "bad weapons" if you knew how to attack while kiting backward

[livid sphinx]

I haven't played yet but I assume everything is much easier now?

[torpid grotto]

a lot of people freeze up if the crusher doesnt die in 2 seconds

[livid sphinx]

Well, that is to be expected

[torpid grotto]

and blame it on the weapon, declaring it unviable

[torpid grotto]

theres a fuck ton of ragers

[livid sphinx]

Ragers are very easy though

[next ridge]

Is tactical axe currenrly good for veteran ? I have been using dueling sword but looking to mix it up . I dont super love having to charge power sword so often

[livid sphinx]

Especially if you're using a range build

[quiet lark]

yes

[torpid grotto]

they appear in such numbers that I have been caught off gaurd by them silently appearing behind me while im at negative dodges a few times

[next ridge]

Do you know if whatever changes they did yesterday made sapper shovel worse

[quiet lark]

think it'll perform about the same

not sure tho cause i don't use shovel much

[pseudo fiber]

Tac axe is a very low investment melee weapon

[next ridge]

Because its light attack or for some other reason

[thorn lark]

no

unless mk4

but you wanna use the mk7 which has the better moveset

and horde clear is pa + h1

it's very mobile, doesn't need trench fighter

and you can stagger muties and raggers on command

[willow prairie]

is there a build that make mk4 good

[next ridge]

Oknthanks

[willow prairie]

not counting rampage scum

[turbid ibex]

Who up ramping they age

[tame lodge]

Everyone

That's how time works

Unless you're Ben Button

[copper vector]

is the lawbringer power falchion okay

[tame lodge]

Don't remember names

Anyways falchion in general is mid

Mk1 is the better mid one

[copper vector]

lawbringer is the MkIIb
i like the moveset more : ( and the model looks cooler lmao

[tame lodge]

True

[turbid ibex]

Unfortunately is even worse

[somber axle]

I should try that. It sounds really fun

[somber axle]

It is really hard to pass up a global 25% damage just for running/dodge sliding and the right side of the tree has a LOT of really good talent nodes that are tricky to pass up like Reciprocity 25% crit, Desperado +10% melee crit and +25% melee finesse. It feels like purposely crippling your build on damage substantially by ignoring that side of the tree

It's also not hard to afford like even the Helbore build going down to MMF could still afford to grab Skirmisher

Skirmisher is definitely better now than the old Skirmisher but imo it is too good

[steep flower]

Nah you don’t cripple at all
And yes; its hard to sink in 4 talents for skirmisher tbh; if you do not run a crit weapon its worse than utility/enchancement talents that increase ease of use/efficiency of weapons you choose

[steep flower]

Only build i took skirmisher on was WS vet with Dbarrel that i would not bring into Havoc cause i like to be useful & fulfill the role of a special killer

[heavy rover]

I run a helbore build and I only go as far as the 15% melee damage

[somber axle]

I'm mostly curious what other damage/utility you're trading the right tree for

Because like that's a lot of damage to pass up

and it's also so cheap to afford

[pseudo fiber]

I use auto pistol and don't even invest skill points

[somber axle]

and I'm not seeing where you're getting better value than 25% global damage

[steep flower]

Ez; for things that are always present no matter what & talents that enchance ease of use & survivability talents

[heavy rover]

Trench fighter drills and serrated edge for sunder power sword goes crazy

[somber axle]

Examples?

[somber axle]

I genuinely miss old Darktide back when Crushers had 4k HP and I could goof off with silly builds to let it gun down a Crusher with surprisingly good TTK/DPS

and confuse people in quickplay

LMFAO

[steep flower]

20% ogryn & monster dmg
CK & OfB
Tac reload for some weapons
And more; really build dependent and going for skirmisher would make them perform worse for what they are suppose to do

[somber axle]

You take both CK and OfB? I'm usually only taking one or the other

I also never really take reload perks unless the weapon has an awful reload speed

[steep flower]

I seen too many ppl die cause they only took 1
Remember; survivability > dmg

[steep flower]

Boltgun
Cshotties
Zarona revolver

[somber axle]

For Boltgun definitely

[steep flower]

Those want it

[somber axle]

I never really think about Zarona Revolver because I'm always taking Weapon Specialist/Always Prepared with it

but I don't run it often

[steep flower]

Zarona revy cam be build either for WS or sniping tool

With WS is more of a ‚i mostly melee & then pull & shoot & stow away’

I use it actively

Take innate suppression immunity from vet & utilize it

[somber axle]

Fair but back to the Skirmisher thing it's just kinda wild to consider a tree that is just straight up ignoring the right side entirely

[steep flower]

Cause that weapon suffers greatly from suppression

[somber axle]

Feels like you severely limit/cripple your melee

and you will have to melee

[heavy rover]

It'll depend on the melee you run imo

[steep flower]

Not at all; not every melee goes for crits nor needs them
I melee all the time & i have no issues in killing stuff

[heavy rover]

Like I main the power sword so sunder and trench fighter drills I find are sufficient to do crowd control

[somber axle]

not so much the crits

as it is the 25% global Skirmisher damage

[heavy rover]

Serrated edge helps as well

[somber axle]

and the 20% damage from Exploit Weakness

that's a LOT of damage

[steep flower]

Still not making much of a difference tbh; not for the talent point cost

[steep flower]

Thats 5 talents; even worse + its directly for crit oriented weapons

[somber axle]

I'm really struggling to wrap my head around how 25% global damage is not a big difference to you

or the extra +20% damage you're getting from Exploit

[steep flower]

Cause other things are more important for more complex reasons than ‚me do big dmg me good’

[willow prairie]

exploit weakness just need to crit once to get the bonus

[somber axle]

like even if you're not feeling the 25% crit from Recip or the +10% melee crit/25% melee finesse of Desperado

[willow prairie]

but it only fit on weapon spec

mmf can't afford to get it

[somber axle]

Yeah MMF definitely can't afford it

[willow prairie]

skirmisher is a no brainer

if you can afford it

[heavy rover]

Yeah my build is focused heavy on marksman focus

[willow prairie]

it's base damage

[tall torrent]

skirmisher and EW both are global damage

AE is melee/ranged

These 3 combined are higher value than pretty much every other damage related talent on vet

MF opportunity cost is horrid because u can’t take these easily

And these 3 combined go for 60~70% of what MF gives u on ranged dps

[heavy rover]

Yeah it kinda forces you into a helbore heavy build

[tall torrent]

But also apply to melee

[somber axle]

I'm always grabbing Skirmisher even on my Helbore build tbh

[heavy rover]

But I'm not complaining because I do like leaning into the anti-gunner role

[somber axle]

even if I can't get Exploit

[willow prairie]

also path how the crusher change affect the meta

especially latch weapon

also mk4 taxe build

[tall torrent]

Frag stocks up
Krak stocks down

Knife has a cursed build on vet
Tac axe IV still inferior to VII
Latch on weapons are still meh at best

[heavy rover]

Yeah with the change to uncanny strike would it be better to run bleed instead?

[willow prairie]

nah

bleed need rending pretty hard

[unreal nova]

But but but, I thought mercykiller needs more stonks?

[tall torrent]

Mercy executor is real funny

[heavy rover]

Is the uncanny strike brittleness only temporary or does it stay permanently once you hit them?

[steep flower]

Temp

As every brittle

[heavy rover]

How long does it last?

[willow prairie]

brittleness effectively never run out

[steep flower]

Read the blessing

[willow prairie]

because shit will die before it run out

[steep flower]

[tall torrent]

This is mercy executor

[heavy rover]

Sorry at work so I have limited access rn

[somber axle]

I know this is partially gamer brain wanting big number (I don't take Longshot because One Motion is just better for me on Helbore for the same reason) but like it's more what you're getting in exchange that feels like the odd tradeoff to me. The game is going to throw a lot and sometimes hard DPS check the team, and it'll be harder/easier depending on how quickly you can meet that

[steep flower]

5s as every brittle blessing

[tall torrent]

5s duration

Can be refreshed

[somber axle]

I don't know that I'm sold on taking CK + OfB over Skirmisher

[steep flower]

Never had lack of DPS; everything was enough while not losing on other fields

[heavy rover]

I'd say out for blood works best with crazy cleave weapons. Like power sword

[steep flower]

Survivability > dmg; remember that OfB affects EVERYTHING so you take shredders & you gain your toughness easily back up + range is affected too especialy when dealing with shooters which are worse than gunners

[somber axle]

idk their loadout other than them mentioning Boltgun tbh

[unreal nova]

Does work like decimator or missing is still okay?

[steep flower]

Missing does not reset it

[somber axle]

I've seen good arguments for OfB over CK for things like Double Barrel Shotgun just refilling toughness whenever you aim at a mixed horde

but like taking both?

I don't think I've ever taken both

[unreal nova]

Guess that's the new funny.

[somber axle]

other than meme builds playing medic with Born Leader for casual games

[tall torrent]

It will only drop all stacks if u land a melee attack against an enemy (enemy corpse doesn’t count) and across that entire attack u hit 0 weakspots, and it also gains stack per hit so can gain multiple stacks in 1 attack that hits multiple weakspots

Which is way way way way better than the fuckass decimator

[unreal nova]

XD

[thorn lark]

give executor to taxe ffs

[unreal nova]

So what you are saying is, funni on lower diffs.

[steep flower]

I wish BL was practically useful…

[heavy rover]

...took me too long to realize you meant Born Leader

[somber axle]

Same. It's fun for pretending I'm helping when I know most teams either don't need the extra toughness generation from me going Born Leader / Exe Stance or it wasn't going to be enough to save them anyway

[thorn lark]

https://tenor.com/view/tharn-type-tharntype-the-series-mew-suppasit-jongcheveevat-tharn-gulf-kanawut-traipipattanapong-gif-17294925

[surreal rune]

executor stocks have risen

[tall torrent]

Executor is good period
It’s on par with slaughterer imo

[thorn lark]

executor was never bad, but people tend to focus on a 3 blessings at most

[tall torrent]

Like in terms of strength blessings this is my ranking

headtaker
slaughterer, executor, superiority
rampage, unstable power
decimator, all or nothing, thrust, torment, tenderizer, relentless strikes, energy leakage

[unreal nova]

15% of 5% on an entire horde kill is still 1 dump of toughness when everything expires at the same times and that's it.

[thorn lark]

you forgot unstable power and the one on relic

[unreal nova]

Is headtaker the one that's basically free?

[surreal rune]

oh mein gott das ist schwul scheisse in darktide server meinem

[tall torrent]

Oh right yea

Done

[unreal nova]

Yeah, is just on hit.

So free.

[thorn lark]

i wonder if fgs riposte shred is better than unstable + shred/riposte

or even if precog > unstable

[tall torrent]

Unstable is better because it’s str multiplied onto damage and other damage related bonuses

[thorn lark]

meaning all the dd and sg bonuses you have

[somber axle]

Yeah it's just the feeling that every class (outside of maybe Ogryn?) already has crazy toughness replenishment anyway so it often feels like whatever toughness I'm providing to a team is negligible

[tall torrent]

I personally don’t think precog is beating unstable any time of day lol

[somber axle]

They're either already filling their toughness frequently enough for that to not matter

[steep flower]

Putting all or nothing above tenderizer is diabolical

[tall torrent]

They’re same tier in that level to me

[thorn lark]

isn't fgs a finesse weapon?

[somber axle]

Or the player is struggling enough that the little trickle of toughness is just delaying them going down

[tame lodge]

Tenderizer mentioned

Woooo

Let's fucking go

[tall torrent]

Kinda

H smiter and H stab yes

[unreal nova]

Unless it's actual newbies.

[tall torrent]

Light sweeps no

[willow prairie]

it is a finnesse weapon because psyker

also dd

[somber axle]

I have seen a lot of newbies in Auric Maelstrom quickplay

[tall torrent]

It’s really bad at being a sword

And had no complexity

[steep flower]

Wdym oggy gets very good regain

[tall torrent]

Expected out of psyker melee tbh

[thorn lark]

fgs being my favorite weapon > noob confirmed

[tall torrent]

U can enjoy using it

Thinking it’s a deeply complex and interesting weapon is another thing

Cuz it’s neither

[thorn lark]

it is so much more pleasing than relic blade, it is doing what I want when i click

[steep flower]

I see them in havocs too

[unreal nova]

Ah yeah, the looking for free carry.

[somber axle]

I mention maybe Ogryn because I haven't played that class since I 100% their penances and I've seen a few Ogryns frustrated at their toughness gain talking about the class in general chat here and there

[steep flower]

Yeah Karien

[steep flower]

Yeah; They’re wrong
Or bad
Most likely both

[unreal nova]

There's a difference in asking for it for h40 and queuing into auric mael expecting it.

[somber axle]

I think it's a steady trickle of Space Marine 2 players funneling over because Darktide had a very peaceful community and now we have screamers

[steep flower]

Very fair

[thorn lark]

please carry me senpai

[tall torrent]

DT has always had a lot of screamers

[steep flower]

Can play tonight

[tall torrent]

SM2 players moving over to DT have largely been peaceful in my experience

[somber axle]

I've genuinely not seen a single screamer in any of my matches until very recently

[steep flower]

Can also show builds to ya @somber axle

[somber axle]

Like having played since beta I can't remember a single screamer in any of my matches of the first year

but I'm seeing a lot more now

[tall torrent]

I haven’t bothered to care

[somber axle]

Tbh almost no one used voice chat in casual lobbies in the first year anyway other than LARPers

people RPing Zealots/Ogryns/Veterans over voice

[thorn lark]

@steep flower actually, i am available tonight! tbh, my premade stopped at H24 and I have not done a H40 since huuu season 2? We can play whatever you want

[somber axle]

I've never met someone LARPing a Psyker tho

the dude LARPing the Zealot was fantastic

I still remember him giving battle hymns while we were fighting

[surreal rune]

i know the vas play the game at times

or at least one or two of them

[thorn lark]

judge va plays or played

[somber axle]

the VAs are amazing

[surreal rune]

professional vet too

male

[somber axle]

I wish I'd get lucky enough to match with them

[surreal rune]

we are not mpregging the male prof vet

even if he barks or says woof or

[thorn lark]

mpreg monday was yesterday

[unreal nova]

Too late, you started it.

[thorn lark]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-rot-lil-nas-x-mpreg-pregnant-discord-gif-5991367321020313704

[steep flower]

Perfect! Could maybe coach & refine ya & have fun!

[surreal rune]

"My beloved says petplay is beneficial to teamplay and cohesion."

[steep flower]

In like 4h maybe

[unreal nova]

Naw, already got an arby doing that.

[surreal rune]

thats why he allows the space wolves

goodest little puppies

[thorn lark]

In 4h it is doable, not earlier, I have to go the gym

[steep flower]

I like it when they say ‚no’ but can’t do much to enforce it

[surreal rune]

this is a whole polycule mate

[thorn lark]

I am in Rome, It. So we should be in the same tz

[surreal rune]

the auth, maul, prof vet, female prof vet

[steep flower]

I have to stay at work till workers leave so yeah

Perfect

[unreal nova]

Oh, it is, kinda. When a lesbian totally not a Slaaneshi totally a commissar decides have an open relationship.

[surreal rune]

https://youtube.com/shorts/m3P7kgIV4Ls?si=XYHEPCE_XvdXtD1H

[steep flower]

No Karien; BAD!
Back to your corner!

[thorn lark]

is this #zealot?

[unreal nova]

Remember the Loner x Fatalist? Loner makes the Fatalist bark. Also, Loner x Loner running off to derp yuri moments as two drunk Fatalist types get drunker and then end in bed waiting for them.

[unreal nova]

Rejected.

[unreal nova]

Thought Vet was the OG?

[thorn lark]

oh, the before times

when Darcy was queen and the knowledge in #zealot-class

[surreal rune]

maul and fatalist seem like the types to get chummier the more they get drunk

[somber axle]

I would read this fanfic

[surreal rune]

maul might get violent too

[hearty panther]

i miss darcy

[willow prairie]

YURI?????

[unreal nova]

It was more RP and little snippets of more intimate shipping bits typed out.

[willow prairie]

WHERE

[tame lodge]

Since he's a barky boy
He gets headpats

[somber axle]

No AO3 link

[tall torrent]

I checked that game u recommended to me with good art, apparently the plot is wack

[tame lodge]

Average doomed yuri

[unreal nova]

Never got invited to make an account. Plus, I mostly write for specific ppl nowadays.

[somber axle]

That's fair

[tall torrent]

I need to start writing my own

[tame lodge]

True

[unreal nova]

And yes, the arbys are both bottoms. And the psykers tops. Gets funny when they goof off.

[tame lodge]

You just need to know where to upload to

And possibly worry about licensing too

But that's like

The boring part

[tall torrent]

That’d be after I write anything lol

[unreal nova]

Not Deviantart anyway. Or start your own discord server and save there.

[tall torrent]

But I have a plot in mind

[unreal nova]

Just scratch off liscensing stuff. Easy.

[tame lodge]

Sonion 😭

[unreal nova]

Psychic spess wizard is generic.

[tame lodge]

No but like
I say it's boring because

My older brother has some characters licensed and shit

And it takes a while because we live in the middle of fucking nowhere

[unreal nova]

Oh, you mean IP protecting your original chars do not steal.

[tame lodge]

Yeah that kind of stuff

[tall torrent]

I mean

Fair

But

I need to start writing first

It’s hard

[unreal nova]

Even random bits?

[tall torrent]

The story in my head is essentially a serious political thriller disguised behind toxic yuri

[tame lodge]

Listen man
It's not because you're the 70000th person to write about the thing that you should just leave it out there

[somber axle]

toxic yuri....

[tall torrent]

Is based

[thorn lark]

what is yuri?

43 y/o asking

[tall torrent]

Heavily romanticized lesbian love story

Basically

[thorn lark]

I thought it was Josei

[willow prairie]

damn there barely any crusher

:(

[thorn lark]

maybe I am confused

[thorn lark]

I wonder if there's more ragers

[willow prairie]

feel like it

[thorn lark]

AH!

I am not alone

[unreal nova]

Pretty sure replaced by bulwarks.

[surreal rune]

darktide shipping ao3

does it exist

[willow prairie]

real

its ao3

[unreal nova]

Well, it's on a few sites even.

[thorn lark]

I did not notice an increase on my end

ragers, yeah, definitely

[unreal nova]

A slight increase in bulwarks, less crushers, many more pew pews.

[tame lodge]

Start as if you're writing an anthology
Then you piece everything together later

[thorn lark]

where is your stash

https://tenor.com/view/gift-pepe-gif-25772566

[tame lodge]

[unreal nova]

Or just write and figure out order later.

[tame lodge]

It's a work in progress (average writer excuse)

[unreal nova]

A.k.a. never.

And then just say snippets of their lives.

[tame lodge]

Yeah enough for an anthology

I should probably get my artistic skills up if I'm ever going to post it as battle shonen

Or I'll just

One and One Punch Man it out with a webcomic

[tall torrent]

that is kind of the plan

[tall torrent]

ragers are fun tho

unless melee weapon can't fight multiple ragers at the same time well

[tame lodge]

Get it started 🗣️

[tall torrent]

I can dm a basic pilot to it

[willow prairie]

idk about crusher change

[tall torrent]

if u want

[willow prairie]

on one hand it pretty good for weapon with middling crusher dps

on other hand there zero crusher

[tall torrent]

on the other hand if ur melee can't fight rager mauler mixed horde ur cooked

[tawny badger]

[tame lodge]

Fuckass Laios

[tawny badger]

[tame lodge]

[somber axle]

[thorn lark]

fgs does it well until

man I wish I had a taxe or a dclaw

[tame lodge]

Dclaw never beating the rager allegations

https://tenor.com/view/giggle-chuckle-hahaha-holding-laughter-gif-15462551

[thorn lark]

dclaw eat ragers

[tall torrent]

That’s about the only thing it does well

And tac axe is just directly better in pretty much everything still

[tame lodge]

That's the rager allegations

Gimme fuel gimme fire

Gimme Ragers or I'll retire

I'm blind I'm deaf
I have a flaw
My name is devil's claw

🗣️

[thorn lark]

🔥

[tame lodge]

Defence Defence Defence

https://tenor.com/view/mexican-wave-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish-fans-cheering-audience-wave-gif-25144568

Oh yeah it is year of the world cup

I was wondering why I'm getting all stadium like

[sage atlas]

With the uncanny nerf, is thrust/precog the way to go on DS? thrust/uncanny could 2 shot a crusher, whats the best alternative now?

[tame lodge]

Riposte Precognition

[sage atlas]

alright

can thrust work instead of riposte or nah? 20% crit for 6 seconds is too valuable

[analog mural]

Thrust is only really taken on thammers for the meme, it's actually not that good of a blessing imo

[grand perch]

ive been using a lot of dclaw lately. and what can i say

https://tenor.com/view/depression-juice-that-makes-me-gif-23138721

just buff its damage already, give it an inherent DoT like nox or something. anything.

[tall torrent]

Thrust is generally overrated

[turbid ibex]

nox

[tall torrent]

I think it’s still uncanny + shred/riposte tbh

[blazing jetty]

Thrust is only good on heavy hitters like thunder hammer or branx pickaxe

[tall torrent]

Even those I think slaughterer is usually better

[neon current]

debatable

I think thrust is a no brainer on pickaxe with the .2s

you will routinely get thrust2 hordeclearing without trying

[turbid ibex]

thrust 2

[neon current]

exactly as much str as a fully stacked slaught

[surreal rune]

and what are these sites you speak on

[turbid ibex]

doesnt affect lights or push attacks though

[tall torrent]

If thrust started stacking as soon as game recognizes heavy attack input, it’d be better

But it doesn’t

It starts stacking after ur heavy atk is ready to go

[neon current]

altho I just took crunch on my boro with HT slaught