veteran-class

[rotund heart]

You can also cancel the activation animation by blocking.

There’s nothing for it. Practice and work on your mobility and movement. It’s p important in this game

[tame lodge]

M1 has 18 cleave
M2 has 105 cleave

[drowsy perch]

waow

[tall torrent]

exe stance gives u stun immunity

and u should learn how to fight ragers with power sword

it's just a matter of reading attack animations

and not being greedy with hit trades

[sly orchid]

heavy attack once lel

[willow prairie]

heavy attack?

on my ps?

also he running voc i think

[sly orchid]

imagine sunder on relic blade

would be funny

[willow prairie]

I fucking wish

[sly orchid]

i think infiltrate ngl

[willow prairie]

and it wouldn't be op either

[sly orchid]

@slow sky opinion on sunder on relic blade?

[willow prairie]

since you have to go unpowered sometime

[sly orchid]

carapace cleave and 15% heavy attack damage

not that strong ngl

[willow prairie]

yeah but you can't have relic up alway

plus it does much less damage than ps

and sunder doesn't help when it unpowered

it wouldn't be as op

psword is balanced around it (non existent) weakness

[turbid ibex]

Also 4x effective cleave

[willow prairie]

yeah it still wouldn't be as op as psword

[turbid ibex]

Yeah because power sword is power sword

[upper falcon]

What is the strongest veteran build for plasma

And the strongest veteran build for power sword

[turbid ibex]

Power sword

[turbid ibex]

Plasma

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/HEhgcKTa4AAzIbS.webp

[atomic void]

give me slaughterer instead

[tall torrent]

heavy atk actually does do smth

but it's mainly for slaughterer

the unique thing about activated H sweep for power sword is that its impact stays the same across cleaved targets

at 7

power cycler +10% so 7.7

if u have slaughterer u can push it to >10 which will medium stagger every rager it hits

[tall torrent]

it's 20%

but sunder for relic blade and falchion would be peak

[turbid ibex]

Unfortunately falchion is doomed to be mid forever

[sly orchid]

imagine sunder supercharge on relic blade

[tame lodge]

You want brittleness for it?

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-knuckles-meme-meme-approved-gif-21819336

[willow prairie]

falchion stay circumcised

[tame lodge]

I don't remember the Adms so idk how good it would be

https://tenor.com/view/sonion-gif-4370030053602687111

[turbid ibex]

Power sword has alright adms

From what i remember

Yeah brittleness aint doing much

[tame lodge]

The relic blade ones

[turbid ibex]

Ye this is relic blade

[tame lodge]

Waow
Brittleness blessing still dogshit in 2026

Color me surprised

https://tenor.com/view/folk-druski-sona-instagram-instagram-meme-gif-18271404859547050805

[rotund heart]

Sunder is a great defensive blessing

The much increased cleave + stagger profiles help with controlling hordes

Whereas Slaughterer is more the offensive blessing

[heavy rover]

sunder with serrate edge talent goes crazy

[turbid ibex]

sundae

🤤

[heavy rover]

mmmm I could go for an oreo McFlurry

but the McFlurry Machine Spirit would definitely be displeased

[hollow ibex]

sunday? i wished it was sunday

[trim badger]

And OP

Super OP xdd

[turbid ibex]

surely

[thorn lark]

Slaughterer is strength: dmg, stagger, cleave.

You take sunder to bypass carapace

It's not really an offensive vs defensive.

[willow prairie]

I already mentioned why it wouldnt be op

I will die on this hill

[neon current]

So which one is the prefered falchion mark

they are like the relic blades, perform almost similar

[dry cloak]

Mk1

Iirc

[neon current]

I meant, which one you prefer

[dry cloak]

I prefer mk2

[neon current]

I think they perform close enough to be a personal preference

[dry cloak]

Moveset clicks better

[neon current]

much like with relic blades

[trim badger]

Wdym 20% free dmg would not be OP 😭

[neon current]

2b resembles the relic2 so yea

is what I use as well

but the 1 is just fine

[trim badger]

Isn't like relic blade mk2 considerably superior

Than mk10

[neon current]

not at all

[turbid ibex]

other way around

[neon current]

it's just the elitist leet propaganda

they both perform like 90% similar

pick whichever you like more

[dry cloak]

I like mk2 relic blade because of moveset

[trim badger]

Elitist? Idc about that I just care about mk2 being considerably more flexible

[willow prairie]

yeah except you're on a timer and it doesn't help when unpowered

unlike psword where you have 100% uptime

so your unpowered is mega gimped

it's a big trade off for higher high but dogshit low

[willow prairie]

how

[trim badger]

I wish mk10 heavies looped forever

[willow prairie]

I mean

[trim badger]

Just like exesword in vt2

[willow prairie]

huh,m

[neon current]

mk2 has a tad better single target, mk10 has easier horde clear, but stab is the bread and butter of relics, and those are the same

[willow prairie]

you can use shitty version of it aka evis

[willow prairie]

also there strikedown loop

[turbid ibex]

the sweeps do loop

[trim badger]

Yeah but I said like exesword

[willow prairie]

there is not a single thing that mk2 have over mkx

[neon current]

I like mk2 because it lets you flow into combos from lightspam seamless

[trim badger]

Aka strikedowns looping

[willow prairie]

actual non sense because this also apply to mkx

[neon current]

but mk10 perfectly horizontal sweeps are nothing to scoff at either

[willow prairie]

also the moveset is intuitive

[neon current]

not really no, you have to heavy after the stab to get into the overheads, mk2 you can heavy whenever

[willow prairie]

on mkx you can reset into pa if you need to switch to single target

[neon current]

but like I said, it's truely up to pref, they are both fine

[neon current]

which is not seamless anymore in my book

I know the combos

[willow prairie]

ok what

[neon current]

seamless in this case I meant, without having to block cancel

because as opposed to VT2, block canceling pisses me off in DT

so clunky compared

[trim badger]

Holy truth nuke

[willow prairie]

blocking is mega gimped in this game but that not the point

[neon current]

it was just schemantics

bottom line, they both fine

and so seems to be the case with falchions as well

[willow prairie]

anyway both of them does the same thing well but mkx have much better attack angle

[neon current]

aye

mk2 has the uppercut strikedown for 110% dmg

[willow prairie]

technically h3 h4 loop on mk2 is more dps but the uppercut angle is dogshit and doesn't have weakspot prioritization

[neon current]

jsut aim above and to the left

VT2 style

[trim badger]

MK2 has more flexible single target attacks

[willow prairie]

it doesn't work that way since it can clip whatever

[neon current]

but is true, those uppercuts can be rough to land

[willow prairie]

angle is fine but aforementioned no weakspot priority

so you can clip other thing/other hitboxes instead even when angling

[neon current]

main reason I prefer is the aforementioned, mk2 lets me lightspam I can transition into heavy light combos, without having to block cancel

[willow prairie]

how

I mean that apply do mkx too

I still don't know what you're on about

[trim badger]

Does it? What can be linked into a light strikedown?

[neon current]

pushattack heavy light

[willow prairie]

uh h1 h2 l3?

your single target combo?

[trim badger]

I swear I tried that and didn't work that way

[willow prairie]

push attack reset into strikedown

[trim badger]

I'll have to check further

[willow prairie]

ok open the game up

I can't be assed to

[trim badger]

Can't rn, at work

[willow prairie]

get unemployed

[trim badger]

Later if you're available

[trim badger]

Will you take care of me then?

🥺

[willow prairie]

I just shutdown my shit im not opening it up

yes babe

😍

[neon current]

I think you mean up down strikedown

which the mk10 doesnt have

it has a stab

which technically speaking, is still a strikedown

[willow prairie]

it is a strikedown

[neon current]

yep

[willow prairie]

both of them have full loop

mkx have better horde clear loop whole mk2 on paper better single target

(uppercut should get hitbox priority)

[neon current]

both the stab and L3 is a strikedown

[willow prairie]

mkx just win imo with much better angle on all of it attack

also to anyone that gonna say that mk2 pa is safer you can just do push l2/h4 on mkx if you need a way to reset combo into horde clear

[neon current]

I really like just spamming heavy light light into mixed hordes with mk2, which will alternate 2 strikedown with 2 vanguards for a balanced dmg output

its all about what you are used to

at the end, the dmg will be similar

I've played the mk2 enough to have trouble intuitively using the mk10 anymore

just pick one and stick to it really

a good relic user will be differentiated from a bad one by the sprint attack usage, not the mark

[arctic ridge]

For keystone Marksman's Focus -- how worthwhile is Long Range Assassin on the high-difficulty chaos field?

[tidal fox]

pretty worth it I think, though depends if youre on auric

back when I touched vet in auric on wastes it was key against really far tox bombers

[arctic ridge]

Laspistol I mainly do Auric Maelstrom. Haven't dared yet to bring it on my current Havoc 25+.

[tidal fox]

wait are you asking about the wasteland?

[arctic ridge]

To clarify, I mean, in the game of high difficulties (e.g. Auric & above) where usually it's chaotic with the hordes & the special spawn rate.

[tidal fox]

ohhh

[tidal fox]

vet needs his talent points badly

I think it's a matter of math and what youre running

[arctic ridge]

Unfortunately.

[tidal fox]

personally I've left marksman's focus alone and just go weapon specialist

hate having little melee ability

[arctic ridge]

Agreed. But -- I do want to have fun outside of my usual WS & FT keystones.

[tidal fox]

well if youre running that keystone may as well go for the additional stacks

and play predominantly ranged

[arctic ridge]

Yea, that's the unfortunate tradeoff with the bottom-left tree.

I also think it's a mistake for devs to put the las-ammo node in the bottom of the talent tree, instead of the middle?

[unreal nova]

Middle nodes tend to not favour a type of style. Unless you mean like withering fire, then expect it to be taxed to get somehow.

[obtuse crypt]

longshot talent worth it for plasma gun?

[tall torrent]

The stab is better than light strikedown

better stagger breakpoint, higher finesse

less cleave but u can still cleave through 1 dreg rager with it

[neon current]

I know

is stab 110% like uppercuts?

[tall torrent]

no

check guide

[neon current]

wait, you saying its not categorized as a striekdown

[tall torrent]

uppercut is just H smiter but x110% str lvl

[neon current]

yea

its 550

[tall torrent]

stab is an entirely different atk from smiter

[neon current]

I see

on the sidenote

is middle helbore good enough for H40?

I kinda like it over the heavy one

[hollow ibex]

If you don’t plan on shooting crushers yeah

[desert viper]

middle is

green?

[hollow ibex]

Or you take armorbane

[neon current]

middle is green indeed

[desert viper]

I use green for my 40s

indeed do not shoot crushers

[neon current]

it feels better

it also sounds better

which is the most important part

[desert viper]

i also like to venture with the blue one on armorbane

very fun

60% brittleness

cant say practical as im not an expert

[steep flower]

60%?

🤔

[desert viper]

guh?

[hollow ibex]

Only goes up to 40

[desert viper]

is it 40?

oh

[hollow ibex]

Yeah

Still a good amount

[steep flower]

Yeah; standard brittle

[desert viper]

theres a reason i said 60 but i cant remember what gave that much

i mixed it up, sorry

[steep flower]

You can have 65% extra ADM

[desert viper]

trying to think what gives that much though

[steep flower]

40% brittle + 10% rending talent + 15% rending from MMF keystone

[orchid hemlock]

Crushers when I hit em with the 65% armor pen Recon:

[sharp epoch]

just use helbore instead

[drowsy perch]

its scab ragers

that are the issue

[tall torrent]

those are more readable and don't have fast running combos

u shud have flak on ur power sword and if u have slaughterer/sunder u shud be able to 1 tap them with activated H sweep

[neon current]

Can you tell me cleave on boro heavies please?

I wonder whether to pick cleave or stagger with

[tall torrent]

Forgor

Am outside getting food

[neon current]

aight

[tall torrent]

Just do stagger

[neon current]

yea you can never go wrong

pickaxe ogryn is still the most satisfying thing into moebians

[tall torrent]

After understanding cleave vs mass more

I personally don’t value cleave as much as stagger & strength

[neon current]

yea I've been here

[tall torrent]

I don’t run wrath on anything anymore

[neon current]

when you told us about the zealot stagger nodes

not even falchion?

[tall torrent]

I don’t run falchion

[neon current]

kinda hard to get stagger on vet

its kinda fun with weapon spec

[tall torrent]

I would if it was good

But it’s not

[neon current]

no its not

its passable tho

[tall torrent]

It’s not passable either

It’s just meh

[neon current]

yea I know, rashad does everything better

but it makes funny sounds at least

[tall torrent]

Vet is just power sword to me atp

But I do run slaughterer on it now it’s fun

[neon current]

I still hate the slowdown so much on PS4

I dont enjoy playing vet enough to put up with

I know you can block cancel it

[sharp epoch]

i see melee vet as just weaker hs now 😔

[neon current]

bro lol

everything is

DLC class gotta sell

I cant even imagine how OP the admech will be

[sharp epoch]

i mean psyker horde clears the best, and ogryn and zealot are still in the meta cause really good support abilities

[neon current]

like, they dont even attempt to hide the obvious cash grab with scum

toxin is just that overtuned

[sharp epoch]

but vet can be replaced by hs easily in the team comp

[atomic void]

nah bro it isn't

blame the palyer's for it's current state

every sloptuber and half of the playerbase were shitting on scum and calling it weak

[neon current]

the two our interconnected

ppl suck at this game

[atomic void]

so they overbuffed it as a kneejerk reaction

[neon current]

so they had to buff scum to 50% winrate

[atomic void]

i still remember everyone making vids shitton on the rocket

then they made it just delete everything xddd

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-avengers-finally-someone-who-speaks-english-captain-america-tony-stark-gif-17147260

[tall torrent]

I mean yea Rashad hive scum is diff lvl

[sharp epoch]

ARE*

[tall torrent]

At release it was pretty meh tbh

[atomic void]

then they overbuffed it

[tame lodge]

Considering that Fatshark always know what they are doing
This isn't overbuffing shit

All hail Fatshark

[arctic ridge]

On Havoc, best used for Rotten? Or there other havoc conditions where Slaughtere more effective than Sunder?

[shut marsh]

wanna try running the combat shotgun, what would be the best/most fun melee to pair with it thats not duelling or power sword?

[tame lodge]

Rashad Combat Axe

[tidal fox]

power falchion

[sharp epoch]

probably the moebian 51st modifier

i find bm is better than sunder there

so slaughterer would be better there as well

[arctic ridge]

Uniformed horde, yea?

[sharp epoch]

the groaners get upgraded to bruisers basically

[tall torrent]

Slaughter is best mixed horde dps overall & better stagger breakpoints, also better cleave vs elites than BM

[orchid hemlock]

SunderDEEZ

[upper falcon]

Is thermal 68 charge rate 72 optimal?

For the plasma

[fair shale]

69/71 but there's a variant of 68/72 that works too iirc

[upper falcon]

What is the variant

[fair shale]

I have no idea because it's all based on decimals and we can't see those

[upper falcon]

Ah I see

[fair shale]

I don't think anyone's done the exact testing but a form of 68/72 should work like 69/71 based off the sliders

[hybrid plover]

It does.

I have a plasma with that stat allocation

[rotund heart]

Big Dom has a video on this

It’s 68 thermal resistance 72 charge to hit the break point of 8 repeated shots from 0 if I remember right

[rotund heart]

Slaughterer is just good in general because P sword’s heavy attacks have decent stagger and apply the stagger uniformly to cleave targets

So if you have slaughterer stacks, heavy attacks will keep a rager horde in check.

[hybrid plover]

It's both.

Pretty sure 69/71 is a guarantee for the 8 shots

But 68/72 can still achieve it through rounding errors.

[arctic ridge]

Swell.

[tall torrent]

u shudn't rely on heavy atk still

cuz windup long

but it is gud for a first strike stagger at the start

it also just is more dmg

[arctic ridge]

68/72 does, though supposedly I've heard its 8 shot is inconsistent at times. As someone who has a 68/72 -- I never really paid attention to it much on field (especially since shortly afterward I luckily got the 69/71).

[rotund heart]

I did say 68/72 is to hit the breakpoint

So 69/71 is more than enough for the extra shots

[arctic ridge]

Yea, I only use PS heavy if there's enough comfy breathing space to both attack & soon afterward defend/retreat.

[heavy rover]

Personally I like Sunder because I also use serrated edge and it becomes handy to stack bleed across different targets

[arctic ridge]

That's what I generally use on Auric Maelstrom. Havoc, I switch out Serrated with that grenade chance node.

[heavy rover]

Yeah especially for rotten armour as many krak grenades as possible is good

[upper jungle]

is shock trooper mostly recommended when using lasguns?

[rotund heart]

Recons

Regular lasguns and hellbore are actually pretty ammo efficient as is but you can still take shocktrooper

It’s pretty much mandatory for recon though otherwise you’d be chewing through ammo even faster

[slow sky]

id still take it for helbore because its already good pathing to MMF which you want for it, and you already are gonna take surgical with it

so its not just efficient with ammo, its basically infinite

and since it doesnt consume ammo from the mag, reloading is rarely needed

[hollow ibex]

Helbore without ST feels kinda ass ngl

[rotund heart]

Agreed

You kind of want to take your time aiming to begin with for Hellbore for priority targets

[somber axle]

Shock Trooper only works with Lasguns. Helbores, Infantry Lasguns, Recons and Laspistol. I usually skip it on Infantry Lasgun because it has so much ammo it doesn't need it. I take it on Helbores because it's nice to offset the longer reload time so you've got more time shooting and less time waiting to shoot. It's basically a must have on Recons because Recons get a crit string of 2 so every crit you get is free and fires 2 shots for free which extends your magazine immensely with even a little crit. I only use Reciprocity and a +5% crit perk on my Recon Mk VIc and Recon Mk XII. But for goofing off I do Deadshot on the Recon Mk XIV because that variant uses 2 ammo per shot so the extra 25% crit from Deadshot with the 25% crit from Reciprocity and the 10% crit base with my 5% crit perk adds to 65%. It's also the slowest firing variant so it has the easiest time "breathing" with stamina. I wouldn't recommend Deadshot unless you're very good at watching your stamina bar to avoid emptying it and then being helpless when you need to block or shove (especially when a poxburster pops up). And I don't take it at all for the Laspistol because my builds with the Laspistol tend to be very melee focused with the Laspistol mostly there to help clean up specials (shoot approaching snipers, trappers, flamers, bombers, etc.)

[hollow ibex]

Holy wall of text

[somber axle]

As a warning don't do Deadshot unless you're wanting to goof off LOL

It's just for memes

And it's not worth on most weapons. Just an active detriment

[hollow ibex]

Deadshot can be very fun

[somber axle]

It is very fun for the few weapons it can synergize with tho

[hollow ibex]

I only use it on some combat shotgun builds though

[hybrid plover]

Yo let her cook.

People want info. They're getting info.

[unreal nova]

Someone actually pulled both recently and tested. Still 8 shots for both.

[slow spade]

yeah I only really get Deadshot when I'm using the Agri shotgun

900 base damage crits 👌

[hollow ibex]

Argi with CS is pretty lit

[rotund heart]

https://youtu.be/klNIv2DuvQ0?si=WKGURfgX5ebkYVQ3

[unreal nova]

Look, I have a 68/72, it does 8 in live games fine. I just don't like using it.

[drowsy perch]

does blaze away on pg work with charged shots

or only m1

[hybrid plover]

I've gotten a 68/72 that doesn't fire 8 shots

Rounding errors be like that

[unreal nova]

I had it way before that video, where ppl still dump that roll without testing. Was just tired of buying.

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/rogue-one-verge-of-greatness-gif-13754250

[hybrid plover]

Oh don't worry I do actually have another that does fire 8 shots

I legit checked to see if one I got from a game would do the same

It did not.

[unreal nova]

Just requires testing imo.

[unreal nova]

68 in thermal maxed, right?

[hybrid plover]

I just find it very funny that a slight rounding error can cause that

Ye

[unreal nova]

Fatshark being Fatshark.

[lusty shuttle]

does a teammate killing a target marked by enhanced target priority still refersh your exe stance duration?

[lusty shuttle]

@unreal nova then I guess Id have to pair it with more of the nodes, but that means sacrificing something in the build hmm

[unreal nova]

More, you don't take it unless in a premade that knows how to use info without taking all the kills.

[drowsy perch]

dont think so

its specifically you getting a marked kill

[unreal nova]

You take either the ranged karks or oggy kark node.

[drowsy perch]

and actually i know so

cause anytime my team kills all the enemies exe runs out way faster

[unreal nova]

And just use the other point elsewhere.

[lusty shuttle]

would just take the other perk that highlights all ranged

itd be easy to keep the uptime and the team now always has sight on elites and specials, great for the vent/power outage mission and general visibility

the problem is sacrificing another node for it

also anyone have thoughts on the shock maul and heavy sword on vet?

[unreal nova]

That is to taste, both have pros and cons.

[lusty shuttle]

Im sure, just wondering how they compare to the power falchion or dueling sword, they seem to be more powerful

[unreal nova]

I meant the exe stance nodes.

[lusty shuttle]

ah yeah, I was saying I have a problem with giving up a node for highlighting enemies for my teammates, as in the complete build I have now, it would be hard to give up anything

[unreal nova]

The weapons listed are on lower tier, you need a gun that kills crushers for them.

[lusty shuttle]

running kraks wont be enough?

most of my builds have brittlness and rending for the guns

[unreal nova]

What if you run out at a bad time.

[lusty shuttle]

I cope by blaming my teammates and calling them dogshit before hitting alt + f4 obviously, thats meta 🤓

[unreal nova]

In high havocs, walls of crushers/bulwarks is actually normal.

[lusty shuttle]

I know, Im just memeing

so basically, melee is very limited in high havocs for whats viable is all Im getting

pretty much the conclusion I already came too

[unreal nova]

Yep, you want something that can kill the above two.

Why Powersword is top choice if not boring or annoying to you.

The charge l l or charge pa l l.

[lusty shuttle]

yeah just tired of running power sword or dueling sword

wish they would buff other weapons or make more interesting blessings

or maybe add more weapons

[unreal nova]

Or nerf cara while nerfing outliers in the op side.

[lusty shuttle]

Id say just nerf the armor

thats the main problem

[unreal nova]

Like cara alone ruins the viablity of so many weapons.

[lusty shuttle]

especially with that modifier in havoc, nurgles or whatever

[unreal nova]

Rotten?

[lusty shuttle]

yes the rotten armor

[unreal nova]

But yeah, weapon tiers is now basically, is this good against multiple crushers?

Is this good against a crusher?

[lusty shuttle]

so power cycler and power charge basically with power sword is all Im hearing or run dueling sword

[worthy dragon]

what does "kraking" mean?

[restive mountain]

Krak = the anti tank grenade

[worthy dragon]

Yea but the way Veteran says it its like a slur

[restive mountain]

You’re just looking a lil too far into it doc

You’re probably thinking of Karking

[worthy dragon]

"Don't give them a FRAGGIN inch" i don't think they're talking about grenades in this context

[restive mountain]

It’s just their way of using profanity

[worthy dragon]

oh Karking sorry not kraking. My bad, my teeth aren't wonky enough to understand these terms XD

[worthy dragon]

I knew it

[restive mountain]

Yeah larking and fragging are just interchangeable profane words

Kinda like how the Japanese use Baka to multi use

[worthy dragon]

I legit thought "karking" is an actual word

[restive mountain]

Nah

[worthy dragon]

i see

Can i say "Go kark yourself" is that grammatically correct?

as a joke btw

[austere mica]

More or less

[dapper agate]

All damage or just melee?

I assume the former, but it's darktide and descriptions can lie.

[drowsy perch]

is plasma gun only for single lines or can you like

drag it

[willow prairie]

line

it's projectile

[slow sky]

all damage

its a global damage buff

[dapper agate]

Ok, thanks. Never know with fatsharks descriptions.

[drowsy perch]

hella good blessing set that nobody talks about for plasma gun

mmmm strength

[unreal nova]

Power cycler and sunder or BM.

[willow prairie]

Yeah because get hot is much better than blaze away and doesn't require you to spam

[unreal nova]

Gets hot and rising heat. Optimised cooling and blaze away if you going to just spam non-stop with very low downtime.

But IDK how ppl aim with needing to constantly pull trigger.

[willow prairie]

they don't

[drowsy perch]

i look towards enemy and shoot

thing die eventually

[drowsy perch]

but i want max strength

and ive gotten used to just spamming, swapping to melee, swaping to plasma and spamming

or just cooling if im far enough away

[unreal nova]

Oh.

[unreal nova]

Well, then do whatever you want. There's nothing to say on it. Just WTF.

[desert viper]

Its fun

thumbs up

[turbid ibex]

Its dogshit

Thumbs down

:3

https://i.redd.it/swdionzb89yg1.gif

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/gun-gunshot-turret-meme-memes-gif-904779750173378298

[ornate ivy]

plasma pistol as a vet exclusive would be so fuckin sick

[obtuse crypt]

why do people say u need 2 toughness curios and 1 stamina? mine are 1 health one toughness and one with stamina had a guy telling me i should replace the health one with another toughness

[narrow frost]

preference

certain attacks go through toughness so having more hp helping dying to those

[pearl shore]

this is the correct stat distribution ?

[turbid ibex]

ye

[pearl shore]

ty

[tall torrent]

They don’t know what they’re talking about

[hollow ibex]

They’re wrong lol

Oh guide already responded

[round mango]

Mostly to avoid one shots in auric and havoc but positioning is way more important imo, also I find that stamina regeneration is super important for block and repositioning and ability regeneration over more toughness or health. 50 yellow toughness near constant is better than 3 5% toughness blessings

IMO

[turbid ibex]

its not really near constant anymore

[round mango]

Is it still 30 sec base cd with 12% cd reduction and tactical awareness? It’s fairly spammable still in my auric gameplay I don’t track it super close though

[turbid ibex]

40s

with 10s duration

[round mango]

Ahhh do kills during duration still proceed tactical awareness?

Proc*

[turbid ibex]

yes the cooldown still works the same way

but its nowhere close to the 30s cooldown 15s duration days

[quiet lark]

tn doesn't prevent one shots. HP prevents burster one shot in havoc. nothing matters in auric anyway

[round mango]

How does that work exactly? If the damage is more than current toughness and it has 100% bleed through it will kill you if your health is not more than 100% of the damage?

[hollow ibex]

Some enemies have massive damage multipliers on toughness

And if they deplete your toughness they do full spillover damage to hp

As if you had no toughness to begin with

[round mango]

Like snipers

[hollow ibex]

Yeah

[round mango]

Gotcha

[hollow ibex]

Idr if bursters work the same way

But the effect is similar

[round mango]

They’re proximity based damage too I think

[hollow ibex]

Stacking toughness against bursters is extremely inefficient

[unreal nova]

Not for like a year. Fatshark broke that.

You take full damage even if just clipped now.

[round mango]

Every YouTube video I watch is out of date I guess 😭

I wish more of this was ya know apparent in the game but have no idea how they’d add this without feeling like a wall of text

[unreal nova]

Is the way they do caculations for the damage. Used to count how many bones in the AoE, is now... Just deal full damage.

Says it's to lower lag.

Yeah, right.

If anything, they'll just say it's a feature to make the game harder like some people wanted.

[round mango]

😂 a feature not a bug

[unreal nova]

Also, the radius is bigger than it used to be.

Or at least, feels that way.

The blast can hit you even when out of range to push.

So you can die to BS.

[round mango]

That makes sense though you should have to risk a bit to push them back but I know what you mean sometimes they insta detonate coming out of doors… no fuse lit they just explode ya feels good

[unreal nova]

This is why you never stand near spawn doors when you hear them... But then again, silent specials so.. BLEP.

[round mango]

Yeah sometimes they’re silent thank god for the radius mod that will show explosion radius through a door even when they’re silent

[stuck prairie]

I dont know why every random I get does that

but like. On purpose

[round mango]

They’re likely learning. It’s not really punished until damnation or auric

Oh lol

[stuck prairie]

to like push them back into the door

[round mango]

I only do that in that one room on the tank mission where you are forced right next to that door and the wall that’s gonna blow up

[stuck prairie]

well that makes sense theres not much else to do lol

[somber axle]

They're trying to camp spawning specials. It's why Exe Stance is so useful. You can see the golden silhouettes behind the doors and ping. It means you can warn them about the silent poxburster and they will back off

Plus it is always funny watching them scatter like roaches the second I ping a poxburster

LMFAO

[stuck prairie]

hehe yeah

[round mango]

I hate the exe stance pov change I had mod to turn off that screen effect it would bother me so much using it.

[unreal nova]

That room is a trap. Always wait a little before running in. I had two people die from 3 bursters through that door once.

THey rushed in to grab the heals.

[round mango]

Noted thank you

[somber axle]

That's fair

[unreal nova]

BOOM.

[somber axle]

The slight zoom and the yellow edges can be jarring. Especially with the Vigilant Autogun zooming even more on ADS

[unreal nova]

Wait. Might be confused.

I mean the finale of Vigil Station.

The medicae room.

That door there is the worst spawn door ever.

[round mango]

I still need to take the next step to havoc my first try was with a group at like 21 and it didn’t go well 🤣 we had someone leave immediately when they got downed

[unreal nova]

Go to settings.

Find the Peril VFX thing, lower it down.

[somber axle]

Oh I'm fine with it. I am used to it now

I just meant for new players

That's good info tho

I didn't know it could be adjusted

[unreal nova]

For some reason, it affects ALL the skill based overlays... Except Hive Scum stimm supply.

FatShark.

[round mango]

I just completely modded out most screen fx the game is already hard enough to follow with screen vomit I don’t need weird vignetting and pov changes

[unreal nova]

Something I found out after deciding to drop it further to not go deaf playing psyker.

And yes, it affects the sounds as well and the visual effect.

IDK why they can't seperate them but FatShark.

Joke is, I found it out because it made my Zealot's crit effect near invisible at the level it's set for Psyker to not be jarring.

That's how I found out and tested with other such. XD

[tall torrent]

burster and sniper dmg have spillover property
if they hit u and break ur toughness, then all dmg is applied onto ur hp as if u had no toughness
burster is 100 dmg total with 10x multiplier vs toughness (so 1000 effective dmg vs toughness) whereas sniper is 122.5 dmg with also 10x multiplier vs toughness (so 1225 effective dmg vs toughness) which means u normally can't tank either with toughness alone (gold toughness still can)

havoc's health reduction goes up to -35%, and it's calculated as
class base health x(1-35% + extra % health)
veteran, psyker and hive scum have 150 base health so they get 97.5 in havoc, which means u get 1 tapped by both burster and sniper by default

burster does a portion of its dmg in corruption:
50 if u are in blast center (which is >1 wound if u have just 97.5 hp so u will just die)
35 if u are outside blast center

toughness is good just not as good as people think it is
because it scales from class base toughness which havoc reduces

if u get only a bit of extra toughness it won't be much
but if u get a lot of it then it'll start to matter significantly

[round mango]

Wait so gold toughness can stop it? How does that work? Just breaks all the toughness you have? Spillover applied to blue toughness instead of health? And doesn’t that mean health break points are much more significant than toughness in certain builds?

[tall torrent]

gold toughness prevents health dmg from most attacks (except the ones that bypass toughness entirely, like explosive barrel, pure corruption, ground fire, etc)

[hybrid plover]

You can't take spillover with gold.

[round mango]

Okay thank you. Makes sense

[tall torrent]

and yes health matters significantly more than people think

because toughness is fundamentally a DR mechanic

[hybrid plover]

Health has always been valuable. Thing is that not all classes need that much extra health.

[round mango]

I assume you want 123 hp at least 🤣

[tall torrent]

on a 1-to-1 comparison, health curio is better than toughness curio

but getting a lot of toughness also matters

[hybrid plover]

Like zealot, since they already have a bulky health pool (even if they have a build specifically designed to use health as a DR buffer so it maxes health as much as the game will allow you to)

[round mango]

Noted good info for sure

[tall torrent]

also just to show how toughness bonus actually works in havoc

[hybrid plover]

Vet, psyker and scum have the lowest base health pools in the game so those are the classes you'd want to consider running health for

[tall torrent]

zealot, psyker and hive scum normally end up with 125 base toughness

havoc hidden modifier -45

so these 3 classes start at 80

[lusty sedge]

guys, did you know that we are casuals?

[tall torrent]

that means +10% toughness is really just +8 toughness

which is maybe 1 single gunner shot, factoring into TDR and stuff

[lusty sedge]

what's vet's base toughness?

[round mango]

But if you take +25 toughness skill point the percent bonus would increase since it increases the base

[tall torrent]

yes
I said 125 as in, considering talents

[round mango]

Ahh

[hybrid plover]

Yes.

[tall torrent]

vet usually gets 140 (or if u fork out a point somewhere, optionally 165)

[hybrid plover]

The issue is that your toughness is taken through a flat debuff

While health is taken through a percentage debuff.

[lusty sedge]

what

[tall torrent]

100
one +15
two +25

[round mango]

Does the flag debuff apply to base before bonuses

Or after?

[tall torrent]

base

[hybrid plover]

So numerically, health curios end up contributing a lot more in raw numbers than toughness.

[tall torrent]

so ur vet 140 toughness becomes 95

and then all the curio stuff gets multiplied to that 95

[round mango]

Havoc stuff

[lusty sedge]

ah, extra casual stuff

[round mango]

Makes sense

Thanks going to mess around with my curios and try havoc again this week.

[trim badger]

It does for HP at least

In H40 vet/scum/psyker have 98 HP

A single +5% HP will put them to 106 HP

Rather than 103

[tall torrent]

97.5
+5% gets u 105

[hybrid plover]

Yeah. This is particular to havoc since Havoc debuffs toughness in a worse way than health.

[lusty sedge]

i'm not playing havoc fam

[trim badger]

Yes but that 5% is not being done on the 97.5

It's being done on the 150 base

[round mango]

So you need a 5% health to get past being one shot by a burster

[trim badger]

Is what I'm trying to say

[tall torrent]

ur telling me smth I already know and just explained above

[lusty sedge]

that doesn't sound like you'd have a good time

[trim badger]

Yeah and I'll kiss you as well

How about that?

[desert viper]

insane comeback

[tall torrent]

if u want to only have 5hp and no toughness after that, yea

[trim badger]

For those 3 classes yes

[round mango]

I like to live dangerously… hit me

[lusty sedge]

what's the pay off for havoc?

[trim badger]

@unreal nova no need to be jealous

[round mango]

Let’s just say you don’t want to see me at a blackjack table

[trim badger]

I can take you as well

[round mango]

Penance skins

And dia plasteel and gold

I think

[tall torrent]

sry I'm not into guys

[trim badger]

Havoc is the best plasteel and diamantine farm

[tall torrent]

brain damage

[trim badger]

Win a havoc 40 each week

And you get like 20k diamantine

That's way more than what you get from the events

[desert viper]

23k diamantine is the max for h40

[lusty sedge]

yeah but by the time you get to playing it you probably have upgraded the shit out of your gear

[round mango]

I wish that was true

[desert viper]

nah i had to restart my account after swapping to pc

[trim badger]

Idk I was pretty new when I started playing Havoc

[desert viper]

maxed out vet and arby

[trim badger]

Since Havoc released 2 months after I started playing

[desert viper]

did my 40s that way

[tall torrent]

havoc is just rly bad in a lot of ways

has some nice things

[trim badger]

So the huge amount of materials was goode

[tall torrent]

just not enough

[lusty sedge]

good move welcome to the master race

ram prices are too damn high

[trim badger]

Who said I was one... Maybe I'm something secret

[desert viper]

its been a headache

i am not sure how people like mnk on this game

but im still getting used to it

[tall torrent]

sry I assume every discord user to be male

[trim badger]

Maybe I am, maybe I am not

Some call me he, some call me she

Some call me it for some reason

That's what I get for putting Any on my pronouns

[tall torrent]

ur prob into it anyway

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[desert viper]

thats a sentence for sure

[trim badger]

Eh, not really, I ended up being more comfortable with either he/him or she/her

Idc about they/them

It/its feels weird

[lusty sedge]

i don't know what you mean by mnk. i have only gamed on pc my entire life i'm not familiar with the idea that other devices could be used to game

[desert viper]

mnk means mouse n keyboard

[turbid ibex]

i mean

[desert viper]

ive been on a controller for the better half of my life

[tall torrent]

havoc is actually worse than self objectification but that's another topic for another time

[lusty sedge]

what's a controller?

[desert viper]

i

[lusty sedge]

i'm joking

[desert viper]

okay you scared me

[lusty sedge]

not trolling

[turbid ibex]

if youre putting any/all on your profile then you should prob be alright with people actually using any pronouns for you

[trim badger]

I ended up really liking havoc

[desert viper]

lol you dont know how much i resonate with that feeling

[lusty sedge]

no but i'm honestly handicaped on controller

[trim badger]

I am, it doesn't bother me if someone decides to use it/its

[tall torrent]

it's ok

[trim badger]

But I do feel it's never done with good intentional pff

[tall torrent]

yea well obviously lol

[trim badger]

Exactly

[trim badger]

Don't feel sorry for me!!!

[lusty sedge]

what

[tall torrent]

I meant that in more ways than one

sorry u interpreted it that way

[trim badger]

dw about it

[desert viper]

i need another 2 caches of havoc before i can rest on my back for the rest of my gamelifespan

thats 2 more 40s!!!!!!!!!!! yaaaaaaaaaay

[round mango]

My sibling is trans it’s hard to get their pronouns right because I’ve known them my whole life. But as long as you try and be respectful. This is from the guy with re/tarred in his pronouns.

[trim badger]

I just wished less people played full meta

Like I'm not saying people should inmediatly stop playing meta

[turbid ibex]

ah alright then

[trim badger]

But can I get a few games without full gold toughness, Inferno and such?

[lusty shuttle]

what do ya'll think about running born leader on vet?

[trim badger]

That'd be so much fun

[lusty sedge]

i would not use it its even if you explicitly asked for

[unreal nova]

Wait till they start talking to you in third person or something. Like talking to someone else in chat and being like "Vror wants to play and Vror has X map." While you are there with them.

[hollow ibex]

Meh

[tall torrent]

psyker and hive scum can use like 200 nerfs combined

[hybrid plover]

I should just host my 40 and look for anyone that isn't running meta stuff tbh

[lusty sedge]

it its my jordan peterson moment

i draw the line

[trim badger]

LOL this has happened a few times

[trim badger]

Truke

[tall torrent]

and havoc would still be buried under at least 12 layers of dogshit

[trim badger]

Truke

[hollow ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/547949405949657100/1501289409503564008/MrBeastCryptoFreeWorking2026.gif?ex=69fb8837&is=69fa36b7&hm=146b0ec245d498e7a2b53a8249c593d7e7b50266d0f3df293108cd0bb62aa08e&

[trim badger]

I think my only issue with Havoc rn is the modifiers

[unreal nova]

Because that's another way to avoid pronouns, even if it's weird as all heck.

[lusty shuttle]

been wondering how noticeable the toughness replenishment is and I can see it benefitting shout for the gold toughness to be proc'd easier in messy fights, just been looking into mixing the builds up and trying more support stuff

[trim badger]

Yeah I get it

[hybrid plover]

Bister Meast strikes again

[unreal nova]

Only 12? You mean 39 layers?

[tall torrent]

more like
the only good thing about havoc is the spawns

everything else and I really do mean every single other thing besides the spawns

[trim badger]

Hmmmm maybe

[tall torrent]

are some degree of dogshit

[trim badger]

Idk, I really like the stimms modifier

I like rituals (pls fix)

[round mango]

I’d love to see Zolas cannons for beating havoc 40

[trim badger]

Moebian 21st is fun

[hybrid plover]

Final Toll is fun

[hollow ibex]

I’ve really lost interest in the game with how poorly managed the direction is lol

[tall torrent]

toll is about the only good mutator

[trim badger]

Toll is also fun yes

[hybrid plover]

I've mostly been playing because other people want to play with me

[tall torrent]

the new event is fun tbh

[round mango]

Wdym the green armor one is great idek the name

[trim badger]

Idk, I feel the best rotation would be Final Toll, Moebian 21st, Rituals and Contamianted Stimms

[tall torrent]

2nd time they made a "what if we made havoc but good" event modifier

waoh

[hollow ibex]

Yeah I heard. Not enough to bring me back. I’m only interested in permanent fixes to auric being too easy and havoc being CBT

[trim badger]

It's funny cuz there's technically 3 modifiers that fit this description

[unreal nova]

And then you get it in Havoc, but with Rot.

70 rot ragers saying hello.

[tall torrent]

or
keep every mutator the same but only allow 1 mutator per mission

[round mango]

Idk the first one I played had random mobs explode into green gas and let me tell you it was not fun

[hybrid plover]

The game has a serious issue where what used to be the endgame is too easy because of power creep

And the new endgame is just CBT because of said power creep.

[unreal nova]

That's Blight or Rot.

[trim badger]

I think My issue is that there are clearly mutators that are nothingburgers and mutators that are game defining

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-warhammer-40k-grenade-truth-nuke-gif-6248133608324632914

[hybrid plover]

There's no real in between for difficulty right now

[round mango]

More like brainrot

[hybrid plover]

And it's actually a serious problem imho

[tall torrent]

the best DT experience is still duo

lol

[round mango]

Yeah auric is getting kinda boring but havoc I feel like I’m disabled

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/blob-jelly-memes-stare-at-it-bob's-gif-8902687973428544154

[trim badger]

The day Fatshark nerfs DS, Deimos Forcesword, Force greatsword and combat blade

[tall torrent]

will not be enough

[trim badger]

I'll do jumps of happiness

[trim badger]

Ofc not

It's a good start tho

[tall torrent]

because there're still like 20+ other broken things

[desert viper]

what would be enough actually

[trim badger]

And I'm lazy to make the full list

[trim badger]

Full list then:

[desert viper]

i am Curious and Bored

give me a list

[round mango]

Darktide II?

[desert viper]

oh theyre both writing a list

i will be joyous

[hollow ibex]

What’s wrong with Deimos 😭

Besides being a psyker weapon

[unreal nova]

See what karkers that use macros do.

[desert viper]

yeah deimos is nasty

[unreal nova]

Wanna watch a H40 CS die in 4 secs?

Actually, less.

That's factoring the combo with it charging at you first.

So more like a 1-2 sec kill.

[hollow ibex]

Well that’s just bug abuse

[unreal nova]

And people say macros aren't cheating. Or unfettered Skitarius.

[round mango]

I didn’t play much vermintide 2 did it suffer similar late game woes?

[trim badger]

• Gold toughness (Remove it's ability to ignore spillover)

• Arbites Charge (cooldown)

• Shroudfield (cooldown)

• Rampage (cooldown)

• Scriers Gaze (cooldown or Warp Unbound)

• Hyper-Violence

• Pickpocket (not allowing to be picked with Rampage)

• Vulture's Dodge

• Demo Team + Demo Stockpile (only nerfed for Kraks)

• Arbites Shockmaul

• Powersword

• Forcesword (Deimos)

• Force Greatsword

• Shivs

• Duelling Sword

• Combat Blade

• Needle pistol

• Inferno Staff

• Purgation Flamer

• Rumbler

[round mango]

Chem tox overall seems a little op

[trim badger]

I don't mind non regenerative nades having that power

I do dislike that talent that gives scum +1 nade tho

[round mango]

Yeah fair

[trim badger]

Oh yeah I forgot about vet talents

Let me update it again

[unreal nova]

Useless for the 'weakest' 'nade. Busted for the other two.

And yes, I consider blinders to be the most balanced one.

[trim badger]

Exactly

[trim badger]

I think blinders are perfect rn

[tame lodge]

Premium dots

[trim badger]

Tox itself is not an issue it's just the degenerate needle pistol

[round mango]

Feels anti thematic to kill Nurgle spawn with a toxin somehow to me at least

[trim badger]

Well, Toxins are used to kill plague and stuff so

[hybrid plover]

I mean

[trim badger]

Deseases beaten by literal toxic shit

[hybrid plover]

I do think toxin as a DoT is a little crazy.

[desert viper]

bonesaws existence is solely helped by toxin

[trim badger]

Yeah but nothing really ends up getting more than 10 stacks UNLESS you're using needle Pistol

[round mango]

Yeah but just feels off I don’t claim it’s rational

[trim badger]

Needle pistol is the problem

[tough nova]

Uncanny is probably the first thing that needs to go. Whole game needs a damage hp mass and cleave pass.

[trim badger]

Needle pistol should only be allowed to get up to 10 stacks, and reduce the amount of stacks applied to 4-5 per shot

[turbid ibex]

isnt that already how much is applied per shot?

[tall torrent]

uncanny strike (nerf to 4% per stack, melee rending instead of global rending, across all weapons including shivs)
duelling sword (reduce single target dmg, reduce sprint bonus, reduce dodge template's dodge distance)
knife (reduce sprint bonus, reduce dodge template's dodge distance)
shivs (reduce sprint bonus, reduce dodge template's dodge distance)
deimos force sword (reduce H stab's stagger)
power sword (reduce activated attacks' cleave dmg distribution, reduce activated stab & smiter's first target dmg)
psyker's toughness (this is an easier nerf than doing ~100 nerfs across psyker's full kit that makes them way less dmg even outside inferno)
inferno staff (reduce stack apply rate)
desperado (increase cooldown to 60s)
rampage (increase cooldown to 80s)
hyperviolence (cap max possible dmg bonus)
hypercritical (internal cooldown of 0.5s)
gold toughness (remove ability to absorb spillover attack damage)
needle pistol (reduce base stack applied, keep weakspot stack applied the same)
rumbler (reduce blast center's dmg)
force greatsword (reduce warp slash's dmg, and its smiter/stab attacks' finesse)
pickpocket (internal cooldown of 30s+)
street tough (increase cooldown to 20s)

and more I can't name atm

[trim badger]

Uncanny can be easily solved by simply making it "+20% rending on heavy attack weakspot"

Or remove the heavy attack requierement if you want

[tough nova]

Remove it entirely

[trim badger]

The point is that the idea of stacks is just stupid and shouldn't be entertained

[trim badger]

Are we gonna ignore the fact that skullcrusher exists

Because Uncanny is not a problem as an idea

It's a problem on its values

[tall torrent]

@trim badger wdyt

[trim badger]

If rending was fixed to 20% and nothing could change that it would be good enough

[round mango]

Rending is the debuff reduction to armor yes?

[turbid ibex]

why so?

[tall torrent]

it's a self buff to ADM

[round mango]

Okay and brittleness is the debuff

[tall torrent]

@desert viper also this is just pure nerf
buff list would be at least 3x as long because I think most things need buffs

or at the very least adjustments

[trim badger]

That's brittleness

[tough nova]

No, stacks once and were Gucci.

[desert viper]

i think youre being too generous with hypercritical, everything else is accurate

[trim badger]

I don't like the idea of reducing DS single target dmg, yes to the movement nerfs

I think the best way to nerf DS damage is simply changing uncanny strikes for executor

[tall torrent]

I would do 1s internal CD personally but 0.5s is good enough to prevent 1 atk instakilling a lot of enemies at once

[trim badger]

And that should solve the issue of DS dmg

[tall torrent]

also forgot to mention

[tough nova]

And all weapons with infinite cleave have their damage capped and spread between effected enemies.

[trim badger]

Also I don't think Hyper Critical is an issue tbh, I think it's fine

The entire issue is Hyper Violence xddd

[tall torrent]

DS should have increased block cost

not reduced

x1.4 front, x2.8 rear

knife too tbh

[trim badger]

Well since it makes it too forgiving

[tall torrent]

tac axe as well

[trim badger]

And inconsistent as well

[tall torrent]

but tac axe is not in the pure-nerf category to me so not mentioned here

[trim badger]

Wouldnt uncanny strikes be more beautiful if it worked like opportunist?

But instead of "on staggered enemies"

This one is "on weakspot"

[trim badger]

True it flew under my radar

I wouldn't mind a small tacaxe nerf

[tall torrent]

pretty much all the light & agile weapons need dodge template and block cost changed

[tame lodge]

Rumbler nerf

[tall torrent]

and all the heavy 2handers need block cost buff

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/festthefestivefest-morgone-jones-morgan-jones-tweaking-tweak-gif-14491782401479632016

[tall torrent]

I think it needs some adjustments, not full nerfs

[desert viper]

would not mind more rumbler nerfs than that

[round mango]

Yall should apply to fatshark

Not even trolling

[tame lodge]

Nah

I'd fuckin ruin this game

[tall torrent]

I want more first target dmg but worse block cost and reduced dodge template dodge distance

[tame lodge]

And would be proud about it

[trim badger]

This is gonna sound controversial but I don't think pickpocket is problematic anymore

Like, outside of needle gun + rampage ofc

And yes I know you can still play 95% pew pew with nerfed pickpocket

[tall torrent]

I nerf the ranged-spam playstyle for it's cringe

[trim badger]

Exec Stance vet with Helbore:

[tall torrent]

u can't ranged spam it

[turbid ibex]

also 80s for rampage?

[tame lodge]

I would give Ogryn 250% ammo

[unreal nova]

Honestly, it's actually bad for gun builds now since if you build for gun, you usually do not do enough melee damage to get kills before someone KSes you.

[trim badger]

What does spam mean 😭

[trim badger]

No??? It's still a beast for gun builds

[tall torrent]

barely any melee engagement, only shooting things
helbore without good frontliner has to actually melee

ur not doing mixed horde with a helbore alone

[trim badger]

Only horde tbh

[unreal nova]

Tell that to having nothing to stab or you stabbing something and someone else takes your kill because they just one shotted it.

[tall torrent]

I also hav a very dumb idea for scrier's gaze

[trim badger]

At least in H40

You'll always have something to stab

[unreal nova]

I already had gun scums screaming in chat to stop stealing their melee kills.

Because they were red ammo.

[trim badger]

I can see how they can suffer in lower diffs

[tall torrent]

lmao skill issue & deserved

[trim badger]

But in H40 there's always something to get ammo feom

https://youtu.be/DFJCOplGG_o?si=2wJsZNoCz1YYhMZw

[tall torrent]

I care abt buffs more than I care abt nerfs tbh

I want more good weapons so that there's more variety

[round mango]

Off topic but guide do you have a similar list to fix league of legends 🤣

[tall torrent]

that to me is more fun

[trim badger]

Yes I would like to buff things as well

From QoL to substantial changes

[unreal nova]

Or even worse or funnier. two gun scums yelling at each other over the other shooting their melee kills.

[trim badger]

If only Combat Axe heavy didn't reset on sprinting...

[unreal nova]

Best part, there was a survivalist vet. They just never stood near said vet.

[tall torrent]

sry I play games for fun

[trim badger]

I think the issue is that what people here call "good" differs from what babies call good

Like, anyone with a brain considers Crusher good

But for a lot of "buff only" players

They consider crusher bad

[unreal nova]

Naw, more cara is bad.

Because it invalidates so many weapons from being viable.

[tall torrent]

my definition of good is
usable baseline with a clear intended role
can be significantly stronger (to the point where some would call op) given sufficient investment
but that investment needs to come with asterisks to overall build to make it interesting

[unreal nova]

Especially when you get WALLS of them.

[trim badger]

I'm talking about the weapon

The zealot/arbites crusher

[unreal nova]

Oh. Lul.

[tall torrent]

crusher is honestly pretty close to what I consider good

only thing I'd change is block cost

rest I'd keep the same

[trim badger]

Maybe

Maybe I'm biased since I run Zealous

But I could see why it should be reduced yes

[tough nova]

Zealous feels amazing w crusher

[trim badger]

I'd defenitely say combat axe NEEDS a reduction in stamina cost

[tough nova]

I rarely take the tdr aura anymore

[trim badger]

I swear I love combat Axe but it has so many inconsistencies

Like, why does sprinting reset the heavy attack

Why does H2 has less range than H1 on rashad

Why does it take SO MUCH FKN STAMINA TO PUSH

[tall torrent]

nah I think it needs cleave changes and BM adjustment across the board

[tall torrent]

no it just takes 2

2 stam for push is pretty standard

[trim badger]

I know

I don't feel it's helping combat axe at all

[unreal nova]

WDYM, I ran out of stam after 3 pushes?

[round mango]

Do you mean every weapon baseline viable at havoc?

[trim badger]

Depends on what you define as viable

Cuz I can use Combat Axe in H40 with martyr Zealot and do good

But it feels so clunky and annoying

Because of the issues I mentioned and the standard 2 stam push

[round mango]

Sorry meant to reply to this. What does baseline playable mean? Playable at auric? Playable at havoc 16? 40?

[tall torrent]

baseline playable as in
it doesn't suck at doing what it's supposed to be good at

[round mango]

Yeah I agree everything should be able to be used without feeling clunky or like the weapon is working against you while an alternate weapon fills the same role but better

[tall torrent]

2 stam push is fine

I think cleave and BM change would be enough

give it more blessing variety

also decapitator needs a rework

honestly decapitator working per kill and decaying one stack at a time would be really cool

[trim badger]

Wouldn't +50% power that's easy to mantain a little bit of an issue?

[pseudo fiber]

what if they made PF good

[trim badger]

Power falchion is good isn't it?

[tall torrent]

decapitator is 24% finesse per stack

[tall torrent]

lol no

[trim badger]

Oh I confused it with the other

Maybe then

[round mango]

Why is PF bad?

[fading yarrow]

It's good at horde clearing and not much else

[tall torrent]

it's not even good at horde clearing

ass vs mixed horde

cuz no stagger

[round mango]

Ahh

[fading yarrow]

Low damage. Takes a bajillion hits to kill anything flak+ and has little stagger

[round mango]

I typically run shovel or DS on vet

[tough nova]

Youre thinking of decimator I think. 5% power on consecutive hit to 50%

[tall torrent]

not good vs mixed horde cuz no reliable stagger vs rager groups
mid single target dps (not bad but not a selling point)

and u can't keep it activated forever so it's not actually reliable as a workhorse weapon, and its normal atks are horrible

(none of these issues apply to power sword btw which does >2x of falchion's dps)

[fading yarrow]

^

[trim badger]

Yea

[round mango]

I like Power sword but the dodge distance modifier was killing me while I was learning it. But felt good after a bit.

[fading yarrow]

I think one thing the PF has over PS is that its unpowered state has a little more damage than unpowered PS

But that's comparing sticks to pool noodles

[tall torrent]

both are ass if not activated

[tough nova]

Ps doesnt get locked out so it doesn't even matter

[fading yarrow]

That too

[tame lodge]

There's no fixing that

🚬

🗣️

[round mango]

I tried heavy sword and wanted to like it so bad. I really love the moveset. I have played since launch but took massive breaks in between. Didn’t try using it until this last patch and it felt weak. Did it used to be good?

[fading yarrow]

I'm inclined to say no. Remember being underwhelmed by it like, two years ago

[tall torrent]

heavy sword is pretty good at everything but carapace dmg

[fading yarrow]

On Zealot, mind*

[junior haven]

Heavy Sword has always been a underdog favorite of mine, but it is just unable to handle all around issues like other weapons (psword in the case of vet).

[round mango]

Havoc viable?

[junior haven]

And yeah. Carapace it falls apart. Thick groups of flak it falls apart.

[tall torrent]

if u roll dreg seed, yes

if u roll scab seed, and ur hive scum with rampage (and its rending subnode), yes

otherwise it's not that gud into scab seed

[junior haven]

Fun weapon though. Wish it was better.

[round mango]

Same

[tough nova]

Try it on the event. Turns maniacs into butter.

Errr ragers

[humble comet]

I see people playing with a shovel a lot. What's so good about it? Is it for crowd control? HC

[turbid ibex]

shovel is mid

[humble comet]

I just like playing with a shotgun, I'm trying to find a second weapon for it

[junior haven]

what about the 12 stack crusher/mauler/bulwark push

[tame lodge]

Nothing

Except the blessings

2 of the most cracked blessings in the game are available to it
Uncanny and Skullcrusher

[humble comet]

ok ty

[trim badger]

It's literally Warhammer™ coded

It's the cool factor

[tame lodge]

It has always been good
The only time it was insanely broken was with old zealot dash and BM killing ogryns

[trim badger]

Just like people running the first forcesword they get even if it's Illiasis xdd

[round mango]

I like it heavy chained staggers crowds, Idk the stats, the blocking is decent movement decent. Push attack for armor. Q has a lot of stagger with that one mark. Just a good all rounder weapon

IMO but I’m a normie

[round mango]

I’ll give it another try I really like the moveset and movement and attack patterns

[tough nova]

You can kill them too if you want

[tame lodge]

Their only weakness is carapace
So bring kraks or similar

[tough nova]

When was this?

[tame lodge]

Long time ago

BM got nerfed with Secrets of machine god

Because Ogryn shovel was too strong

[tough nova]

Ahh so a while ago

[tame lodge]

And pickaxes were about to be added

Now the zealot change I don't remember when it happened

[tough nova]

That was one of the best patches man

[tame lodge]

But the old dash was armor downgrade