veteran-class

[tall torrent]

given it doesn't have BM or super high cleave it's fairly good

and this is without rampage too

[turbid ibex]

what does it look like with rampage

[tall torrent]

prob way less lol

[hollow ibex]

Cbar light spam - 17s
Cbar PA L - 20s+ (if anything, i'm giving it a better result given that everything got knocked over)
Mk3 shiv light spam - 12.5s

Tested against 20 bruisers, same build. no rampage or stimm, adren starting at 0 stacks.

you can't convince me this isn't abymsal dogshit

[tall torrent]

it's not tho

[hollow ibex]

how is it not lol

[tall torrent]

15s no hit 20 active bruiser in meat grinder is pretty avg for melee weapons?

abysmal dogshit would be like knife/DS/shiv taking way longer

[hollow ibex]

let me give you more context

BS - 10s

the weapon you ranked at tier 3

has a 10s clear time against 20 bruisers

[hollow ibex]

i literally gave you the shiv clear time too

[tall torrent]

yea and bonesaw is complete ass at mixed horde lol

crowbar isn't

u have stagger and first target dmg

[hollow ibex]

what combo do you even use in mixed horde for cbar

[tall torrent]

heavy1 & 2, PA, light2

[hollow ibex]

ok so you halve your dps

because you're using heavies

nice

testing that combo vs. 20 bruisers, 18.9s

better than i remembered in one sense, but it's still as i remembered in another sense-- still abysmal dogshit

[tall torrent]

no I meant crowbar

I don't use bonesaw lmao

crowbar heavy1/2, PA, light2

[forest lagoon]

What's the difference between the two marks of chainaxe

[tall torrent]

12 is better

[hollow ibex]

yeah that's what i tested

[forest lagoon]

😑

[hollow ibex]

12 is better

[forest lagoon]

why is it better

Can we normalize explaining things in this discord

[tall torrent]

higher single target dmg, better on demand stagger, really high flak dmg light atks

[tall torrent]

explanations get refuted constantly

[forest lagoon]

is it not more horde focused? i.e. side to side attacks rather than overhead?

as much as I love the MKIV it's very top down heavy

[tall torrent]

it's better horde and better single target and better stagger

[forest lagoon]

ok good

[hollow ibex]

testing against mixed dreg horde

BS - 11s
Cbar - 15.7s

[forest lagoon]

Is the push attack still a horizontal swing

[hollow ibex]

like you could tell me cbar does a good job staggering hordes

[forest lagoon]

because I use that attack a lot if I get sureounded

[hollow ibex]

and i'd believe you

[tame lodge]

It's a stab on the mk12

[hollow ibex]

but having not abysmal horde/mixed-horde dps? that's just not true lol

[tame lodge]

Iirc

[void dragon]

@tall torrent question: which keystone node is better for the branx pick? cleave or impact?

[forest lagoon]

Awww man

such a good attack

[tall torrent]

always impact

[tall torrent]

what's the mix here

rager? mauler?

or still just bruisers

[hollow ibex]

Dreg mix on melee pressure east

[tropic halo]

Always impact for ogryn melees

[hollow ibex]

So shooters, bruisers, ragers, gunners, and shotgunners

[tall torrent]

wat is that

<mixed pressure - easy>?

[tame lodge]

Probably a preset on creature spawner

I personally never got it to work

[tall torrent]

I don't believe bonesaw did that in 11s

lol

there's no way bonesaw does all these in 11s

[tame lodge]

But then again I never needed it

[hollow ibex]

bro i said dreg side

didn't want to mix carapace into the test

but i can test that too

[tall torrent]

how did u activate dreg only

[hollow ibex]

right side of your ss

[tall torrent]

or did u not activate them at all

[hollow ibex]

i only tested against the dreg group

[tall torrent]

did u activate them or not

[hollow ibex]

no

activating them = more variance

[tall torrent]

ok

then yea but bonesaw on an active mixed horde is just CBT

no stagger no cleave no atk speed

[tame lodge]

Sometimes life is CBT but without the CBT

[hollow ibex]

the lack of stagger is annoying but it's otherwise not actually that bad with light spam

obv doesn't mean i like the weapon tho

but i do like it more than cbar

[tall torrent]

nah bonesaw is just ass

I could move crowbar to t2 but I think 1.5 fits it better

[hollow ibex]

the damage output on BS really isn't that bad

[tall torrent]

yea it's just ass at melee

dot-wise it's good

[hollow ibex]

well the dot is part of the melee tbf

[tall torrent]

yea it takes like 3 hits to get enough dot to kill things reasonably fast

on a weapon with no cleave, no atk speed and stagger to make room for those hits safely

[hollow ibex]

alright testing against scab mix

BS - 22.1
cbar (HH PA L) - 28.4

[tall torrent]

this is legit pointless because heavy atk for crowbar is there for the stagger which only reflects when enemies are active

u cannot quantify that in a stationary test

[hollow ibex]

i mean the point is the damage output is dogshit

we all know cbar can stagger

[sonic kayak]

I'll stagger you

[tame lodge]

[spark bough]

Guys is no keystone executioners stance Helbore sapper shovel bad

[tall torrent]

no keystone, yes bad

exe stance, good

helbore, good but not for everyone

[spark bough]

But which keystone would I even use

[tall torrent]

sapper shovel, mid

[spark bough]

I feel like I'd rather stack crit talents

[tall torrent]

helbore is almost always MF

[spark bough]

Which one is that

I'm new to the game

[tall torrent]

left keystone

[spark bough]

I see

[tall torrent]

vet keystones
MF (left), FT (middle), WS (right)

[spark bough]

I've been considering swapping exe stance to voc

[tall torrent]

VoC is easier for beginners

[spark bough]

Ngl I kinda wanna make a bayonet charge build even though it might not be good

[hollow ibex]

i really don't think bonesaw is that bad power-wise

ofc, design and feel of it is a totally different set of issues

[spark bough]

Wait a sec

Would bayonet benefit from weapon specialist

Or no

Since I'm not actually switching weapons

[hollow ibex]

@tall torrent have some bonesaw propaganda

[forest lagoon]

Probably not

what's the best blessings for chainaxe? I'm guessing Headtaker is one

[spark bough]

Chaxe enjoyer

[forest lagoon]

would Thunderous work? since chainaxe does multi hit?

[spark bough]

[spark bough]

Which chaxe do you use

[tall torrent]

2 years ago it was good due to a bug

[forest lagoon]

Just swapped to the mk12

[spark bough]

Damn

[spark bough]

Is that the one with the light attacks

[tall torrent]

no, and no it does not multi hit

[forest lagoon]

That's literally what it's doing

it's not one hit, one swing hits the same enemy like 3-4 times

I'm just gonna use Thrust lmao

[forest lagoon]

Not a clue

just started using it

[spark bough]

Shredder probably doesn't count for multihit

[hollow ibex]

Thrust is honestly nearly never a good blessing lol

[spark bough]

Thunder hammer?

Pickaxe?

[hollow ibex]

Yeah that

Included

On thunder hammer it's only good for the memes

[forest lagoon]

ew I don't like this one

[spark bough]

What are you using over thrust on the thunder hammer

[hollow ibex]

I'd need to login to check, idr

[forest lagoon]

Then what would you suggest?

[hollow ibex]

Prob slaughterer and something else idr

[spark bough]

If you don't know then why are you saying thrust is bad

[tall torrent]

no, it does not multi hit

it has damage ticks but those are not considered as "hits" by the game

[spark bough]

WIP is thrust bad?

Is my life a lie?

[forest lagoon]

It is indeed the one with light attacks

I don't like it

[hollow ibex]

sorry i don't remember every fucking weapon's blessings off the top of my head lol

[forest lagoon]

I like the chainsaw light attacks lol

[hollow ibex]

especially one as irrelevant as TH

[tall torrent]

yk there's a pinned guide here right

[spark bough]

Why are you being so aggressive

[spark bough]

I didn't, thank you :>

[hollow ibex]

i could ask the very same thing

and it's Slaught/HT

[tall torrent]

usually yes
situationally debatable

[spark bough]

How am I being aggressive

[hollow ibex]

why don't you tell me.

[spark bough]

I like it on Ogryn pickaxe cause that weapon already heavies a lot

[spark bough]

????

You're the one who said I was being aggressive what

[tall torrent]

thrust issue is that it's usually better to do 2 attacks than to hold 1 attack longer

even for pickaxe

[spark bough]

How would I tell you

[forest lagoon]

Because they're le funny Chad gamer who doesn't need to explain themselves ever

[hollow ibex]

you said that first

reminder^

[spark bough]

I like it for breakpoints

[forest lagoon]

what about with the mk12 chainaxe?

[tall torrent]

yea it's still just better to atk twice usually

[spark bough]

I see

[forest lagoon]

from what I can tell with that one it's built around heavy attacks?

especially since the rev up is on heavy instead of light

[tall torrent]

if ur thinking activated heavy 1 tap crusher
u don't need thrust for that breakpoint for damnation/auric
and for havoc u can't 1 tap crusher with it anyway

[spark bough]

You said something was bad, didn't elaborate, and when I asked you said you didn't "fucking" know

[hollow ibex]

and esp since TH gets good damage / str blessings

[spark bough]

Which usually implies you're upset

[forest lagoon]

remember I don't really play auric or havoc

things like damage breakpoints doesn't mean a lot to me

optimal combos and such

[hollow ibex]

lol. i just thought the assumption that i would know every weapon's blessings off the top of my head to be pretty dumb.

[tall torrent]

yea so heresy enemies have less hp and therefore the only purpose of thrust (getting better 1 hit breakpoints) is largely irrelevant

[tall torrent]

nah u shud know more

[hollow ibex]

i do

[tall torrent]

memorize my guide

[hollow ibex]

for weapons that i give a shit about

[tall torrent]

[forest lagoon]

so what would be better instead? Slaughterer, blood letter?

[hollow ibex]

brb asking chatgpt to do a web search on your guide to ask for the best TH blessings

[tall torrent]

for chainaxe, in guide

[forest lagoon]

Also, is it worth having the bleed on melee hit perk

at all?

I don't think I can get it to spread AoE style like psyker

[turbid ibex]

depends on weapon

its either it, field improv or ranged cleave

[forest lagoon]

Chainaxe

mk12

[turbid ibex]

doubt it

[forest lagoon]

heavy attacks already do a silly amount of damage

will probably just use superiority complex instead then

A flat 15% damage increase is pretty good

[tall torrent]

serrated blade depends on the weapon

usually knife

[hollow ibex]

Knife shovel

Possibly sunder psword

And falch

[heavy rover]

I can vouch for serrated blade on sunder power sword

[sonic kayak]

Me too

But normally it's a waste outside of Havoc tbh

[tame lodge]

Thunderous is often 'bad'
But you can pair ir with Bloodletter and 1 revved attack would build the 40% brittleness

And you can also dodge out of it after the first tick and it would still apply the 40% brittleness

Shortly after

But then you'd miss out on AAAAAALL the strength of Slaughterer Headtaker

And strength tastes better than key so

🤷‍♂️

[raven raven]

Plasma pistol when?

[void dragon]

@tall torrent Can i ask you what you think of this build of mine? its for the Dclaw and the Laspistol

[void dragon]

my prediction is for the next class but not as new weapon but as a skill like the tech marine from SM2

so you have a mecha tendrill that shoots plasma

[hollow ibex]

could drop tinkerer as i asusme this isn't a havoc build

[raven raven]

aight

[hollow ibex]

and i'd prob drop 15 stacks

that'll give you enough to pick up rending strikes

which is important for both laspis and dclaw

[forest lagoon]

Don't we... Have that?

Plasma gun?

[void dragon]

there is in lore a pistol version

ppl want that

idk why

[raven raven]

Yes, but need one that’s smaller

[tall torrent]

are u sure ur weapons are gonna kill crusher/bulwark well enough to justify ogryn highlight

[forest lagoon]

My follow up question is why?

I'd rather a melta

[pseudo fiber]

What if we had plasma gun

but probably worse

[forest lagoon]

Also, what perks do I take for plasma gun to help with ammo efficiency

Because this things ammo usage is insane

[spark bough]

What if crusher train

[void dragon]

i was considering falling into chaos ant taking a DS for that tbh (is it nowadays a tier 1?)

[forest lagoon]

I'm using survivalist perk and the ammo perk on weapon specialist

[tall torrent]

I don't think it was ever a t0 but it's a high t1 for sure

[forest lagoon]

I think the plasma is too high skill for me

[tall torrent]

my overall opinion is that ranged vet needs 2 talent points freed up to feel good to build

[tall torrent]

how

[forest lagoon]

is the point of the plasma to have high heat or not have high heat

[tall torrent]

high heat

[turbid ibex]

Isnt laspistol decent into reapers?

[raven raven]

W h a t

[tall torrent]

it's ok

[forest lagoon]

I might have to pass on it then

[void dragon]

could probably swap to frags and slot the can opener sword, but what you think would my build need to change?

[tall torrent]

why

[turbid ibex]

Plasma is one of the simplest guns to use

[tall torrent]

taking MF

[forest lagoon]

Don't want to deal with heat management

[tall torrent]

there kinda isn't heat management

[forest lagoon]

there is a heat meter

[raven raven]

And?

[forest lagoon]

All the good perks revolve around juggling high heat without overloading

not for me lol

[tall torrent]

here's the thing
u cannot overload it unless u charge shot

and u just, shouldn't charge shot ever

[slow spade]

to say the plasma is high skill...

[raven raven]

Just did yesterday

[slow spade]

I try not to judge but bruh

[void dragon]

so something like this?

[forest lagoon]

This is the sort of thing I mean

[tall torrent]

not what I meant

why 3 points into shock trooper

complete waste

[forest lagoon]

what is the point of using weapons where strong attacks shouldn't be used

waste of resources

[tall torrent]

who said it's strong attack

[spark bough]

Because the normal shot is a strong attack by itself

[turbid ibex]

hipfire already does everything you need it to do

[spark bough]

Charge shot is too committal for not enough benefit

[void dragon]

because wanted to have it less of a melee build and more of a gunning one

[forest lagoon]

Hipfire feels like I'm playing halo

[slow spade]

it doesn't even help that much for killing targets

[forest lagoon]

and I was ass at halo

[raven raven]

I wish halo didn’t take the turn it did

[tall torrent]

too bad, ur playing vet

[forest lagoon]

Halo 5 was the last halfway good halo game

gameplay wise

[void dragon]

how dare me trying to do gun-kata whit the gun class?

[forest lagoon]

story was absymal

[raven raven]

Yep

[slow spade]

Halo Wars best UwU

[tall torrent]

I had this earlier

for inf las + tac axe

this is about as cheap as I can get and it still skips out on important stuff

[forest lagoon]

Also, what's the difference between these 3 different types of autoguns lmao

infantry one is the only one I really used

[raven raven]

One is auto, one is burst, and one is a twin linked stubber in disguise

[forest lagoon]

I'm gonna guess you mean infantry, braced, and vigilant then

[turbid ibex]

and just like twin linked stubber its not good

[forest lagoon]

in that order?

[raven raven]

Swap vigilant and braced

[forest lagoon]

Which is the best out of vigilant and braced then

I already have the best variant of infantry autogun

[tall torrent]

infantry = automatic (traditional FPS assault rifle), high recoil
braced = not worth using
vigilant = burst or semi auto DMR style rifle

[raven raven]

Don’t know.. main ogryn I do

[tall torrent]

vig 3
braced 4 or 8
just check pinned guide lol

[forest lagoon]

My phone can't navigate Google doc menus very well

[raven raven]

Rashun

[tall torrent]

too bad

[turbid ibex]

its not google doc

its steam guide

[forest lagoon]

Ooh I like this vigilant

But at the same time I have a Boltgun which is probably just better

or helbore

[tall torrent]

vig3 is genuinely top tier

[sudden glen]

Hey, wrt the Weapon Specialist perks, does the ammo recovered by Ranged Specialist count as a reload? Is it affected by reload perks like extra critical chance and such?

[tame lodge]

Ok that's

A couple questions

The CRIT chance stacks up so at 3 stacks you already have 99%

[turbid ibex]

109%

vet has base 10% crit chance

[tame lodge]

I was considering it in a vacuum but that's true

https://tenor.com/view/true-truth-nuke-squidward-mr-krabs-rock-gif-9714276628674837375

[sudden glen]

Well I mean, I know Ranged Specialist has improved crit chance, but for example, there’s another perk in the Vet tree that gives an extra 20(?)% crit chance for the first 20% of your magazine after a reload. So would these two perks interact?

[calm shard]

no because weapon specialist already gives you a guaranteed crit from its own stacks

or well it would

but you would never notice it because y'know

weapon specialist crit chance

[tall torrent]

It’s 10% from what I remember

And that talent is not worth taking

[turbid ibex]

opening salvo is 10%

or whatever its called

yeah

its shit

[calm shard]

even when I'm crit maxxing for the funny it's just so bad

10% conditional crit chance fuck outta here

if you're gonna have a condition you damn well better be at least 20%

[turbid ibex]

and also not be nearly as finnicky as the first 20% of magazine

[calm shard]

actually come to think of it if it was 20% would veteran have 100% crit chance on las weapons?

[turbid ibex]

you already have 100% from headhunter on Ilas or surgical on helbore

and again

its only the first 20% of the magazine

[calm shard]

okay but not them

[tame lodge]

It would save you from 1 stack of headhunter

[calm shard]

laspistol would have 90 before blessings which honestly the way crits work might as well be 100

75 for recon las?

[tame lodge]

And due to shock trooper you'd likely be in your top mag anyways

[calm shard]

well yeah but that'd be the point would be to have guaranteed recon las crits so you can shoot forever with the Mk XIV

since that one has cleave and can kill hordes

[hollow ibex]

XIV is very risky to use

it'll put you to sleep

[calm shard]

it's amusing at times

[tame lodge]

You know

One day

I really really really had trouble sleeping

So I put Solo Leveling on my side screen

[hollow ibex]

yeh with DS + wifi you can cleave shotgunners again

[tame lodge]

And played Recon XIV

Greatest sleep I've ever had

[calm shard]

amazing

what is the DS?

[hollow ibex]

deathspitter lol

and withering fire

[calm shard]

oh right

[hollow ibex]

was lazy

[calm shard]

used to only seeing it for the dueling sword

[hollow ibex]

yeah fair

[void dragon]

What build would make decent use of the chain sword to be used on havoc? The melee scum only?

[calm shard]

helbore veteran because your melee is literally only for trash anyways

if it's too big for your sword to kill just shoot it

[void dragon]

I'm just trying to justify why I'm not taking taxe instead, honestly the weapon took chain swords and Dclaw job by force

[calm shard]

justify it by internalizing that you want to use it and find it fun to use

if you don't find it fun to use why are you even using it to begin with?

[tame lodge]

Just bring frags and frag everything

[void dragon]

I already did that successfully with the Hswords, but I want to make variety on some of my builds. The issue is that I'm legitimately don't see what ObeseFish think it's the Chsword niche

At least with Dclaw I know they done goof bad

[calm shard]

spam light attack into trash with XIIIg

marvel at the heavy attacks one shotting dreg ragers

[void dragon]

I'm more surprised that on top of it's mobility the Taxe can stagger ragers out of their combos

But I get ya

[elfin glacier]

Can't the shove do the same with the one that has a stab special?

[sudden glen]

I’m late to the party on this, but I’ve been enjoying Frag Grenades plus Mercy Killer on the knife.

[tough nova]

Mercy killer uncanny feels so right

[tame lodge]

Bloodletter Thunderous

for future reference

[slim copper]

what mod allows you to select various perks and blessings for testing like that?

Also cool music

[tame lodge]

Loadout Config

https://github.com/regzo2/DT-Loadout-Config

Hasn't let me down yet

[slim copper]

hell yea thank you

[elfin glacier]

random drop. Isnt this the optimal stats? Can I upgrade this sword to gold and change all its perks and blessings?

[amber cliff]

Yeah!

[elfin glacier]

then I also need empower the weapon to reach those max stats

ok, lucky me.

though I can already see how money is going to quickly become a none issue in this game lol

[distant plaza]

cleave targets is the dump for power sword

[elfin glacier]

ah ok

well I did concentrate it and it gained power cycler so big win there

I can use this for now

[hollow ibex]

yeah it's not the end of the world

[elfin glacier]

I mean either way I'd want to spend a small amount of resources to get that blessing on a power sword anyway

oh yeah well worth, Power cycler is indeed a must have. Makes quite a noticeable difference

[hollow ibex]

shits unusable without it yeah

[elfin glacier]

I do like the bomber template quite a bit. A great generalist build for spaming krak grenades to delete Crushers and the like

[midnight totem]

ugh, just lost an easy havoc 20ish

team all ran out everywhere towards the end of carnival and got shot to pieces by snipers and gunners

[amber cliff]

It’s ok.

We forgive me

And you

[elfin glacier]

I feel like learning to survive with psyker has greatly enhanced my Veterans surviability

this game really is all about push, attack, dodge circle strafe.

in short, its all about playing "dont touch me"

also its about having bombers come in from 3 directions, a trapper catching you from behind and a flamer burning you. Because the AI director wants to make sure you understand that he hates you.

[orchid hemlock]

Skill difffffff

😈

[midnight totem]

Its like they forgot the center of the arena is a fucking killing field

And we had no psyker, so

First person goes down, the others can't pick them up fast enough with snipers around

[slow sky]

thats the fun area though

[last marten]

carnival finale is peak

[tawny badger]

hey chat how's the agri revolver

[tame lodge]

Good monstrosity DPS

[quasi surge]

For the talent Field Improvisation, does it only apply to crates I pick up or the entire team's crates

[tawny badger]

entire team

[quasi surge]

Do they need to be in coherency? Or do I need to remain a certain distance from the pack for the effects to work on teammates?

[tawny badger]

nope
hell you can be dead for all it matters, field improv still applies

[quasi surge]

Like if I am dead, does it deactivate

[quasi surge]

Awesome thanks

I'm also seeing Veteran Build videos and I'm noticing the Curios often are using revive speed but I'm not seeing many folks using the talent Only in Death Does Duty End. Is this talent not popular? If it isn't, why is it considered less valuable?

[hollow ibex]

it used to be really bad

now it's better but still niche

mostly because vet doesn't really have points to spare

and golden toughness is still more importnat

[quasi surge]

You can take all three voice of command talents

[tame lodge]

loud buzzer

No points for that if you want a good build

[hollow ibex]

vet doesn't really have points to spare

[quasi surge]

Is the revive speed on the curios worth it?

[jovial yarrow]

i also would like to point out that Only in Death Does Duty End only shines when more than one person is down in the aoe or there is a boss..
Otherwise shout will more often then not create the necessary space to revive a player.

[hollow ibex]

yeah that too

[hollow ibex]

not a must have but it's a fine take

[quasi surge]

Maybe if I suck I should take it to revive multiple players when overwhelmed as I'm probably not carrying

[tawny badger]

I think it's a pretty good pick if you aren't using, say, Leave No One Behind

but like sirosky said it's not necessarily a must, just gotta make more space to revive if you dont got it

hm
Does Onslaught proc on the damage ticks of a revved chainsword attack

[hollow ibex]

it doesn't

[tawny badger]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-buzz-walkin-gif-4619349587537853035

worthless fr

[hollow ibex]

yup lol

[tawny badger]

finally cleared a talent point to get Lock and Load on my recon lasgun build

https://tenor.com/view/anime-mha-my-hero-academia-bakugo-bakugou-gif-1283581218553643305

[fading girder]

Do what i did for a bit a run +3 wounds curios

(so that would be like +5 total? wonder whats that on tabletop)

[hollow ibex]

don't actually do this unless you're trolling your t eam

[tawny badger]

the match got ended by me getting pounced by a hound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvs7rKOVBFU

[quasi surge]

Do folks only use Krak Grenades on Ogryn and Monstrosities or are there other situations to throw these

[tame lodge]

Well if you're desperate

The explosion has stagger

So you know

[fading girder]

i did this when i was new because i thought more wounds better

[gentle lake]

hilarious

[arctic ridge]

It's also nice for, say, if a wall separates between vet & downed person.

But the talent only revives downed players -- not netted folks or hanging or resurrected/returned players. Revive Speed has more utility.

[gentle lake]

homie bought back 10 years ago

I loved watching thatr shit w dad

[tawny badger]

there's always utility in yelling at your teammates

[tawny badger]

uh
are traitor captains supposed to not spawn with shields

[fading girder]

some do some dont :3

[soft kindle]

So I haven't played in like... at least half a year if not more. Can someone give me advice on a veteran build. I hear Krak grenades are good now. Are they better than shredders? And for keystone abilities is Weapons specialist still good?

If you can link a full build that would also be decent, but I want to understand why they pick the things they do in the build

[toxic reef]

this is the standard vet template p much

otherwise there's a more comprehensive guide in pinned

[hollow ibex]

WS is still very good yeah. kraks = shredders > smokes

smoke is really only good in havoc

[soft kindle]

so it's more preference/build dependent which of the nades you'd want?

[hollow ibex]

yes

they're all viable

[gilded wraith]

Would buffing bleed DoTs, while capping psyker burn and HS chem stacks lower correct some of the current balance issues between classes? Seems like an easy boost that specifically targets Zealot, Ogryn, and Veteran.

[soft kindle]

Is Out for Blood not worth taking then? None of the builds in the pinned uses it but I remember it being good back when I played

[gilded wraith]

Still good with shredder or db focused builds in my opinion for bleed kills. I use my melee weapon selection to determine if I take it. If I take chip damage in melee with a slower weapon I'll grab Out for Blood.

[tame lodge]

I think bleed should still suck

[soft kindle]

and how important is Bring it Down? Should you always take it or does the pinned only assume it because it's good in certain game modes or something?

[gilded wraith]

Do you feel burn and chem should be tuned down even if bleed goes un buffed?

[tame lodge]

No

[gilded wraith]

Can't really agree with you, but respect your opinion.

[tame lodge]

Simply put

Sources of fire is basically inexistent

And chem is exclusive

[gilded wraith]

I don't think HS should have potentially top 1-2 ranged damage, melee damage, dot damage.

Same statement could easily be made for psyker maybe minus the melee part.

[soft kindle]

Would this build (what I used to use) still work well? And if not what would need to be changed on it?
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a185094c-7a73-4cac-b57e-57a5fb151f1e/idk-what-im-doing

[gilded wraith]

DoTs aren't some brilliant expression of skill on either one, they're just hundreds of k of free damage.

[tame lodge]

It's a bit hard to justify Serrated Blade on the dueling Sword

But then again

That row of talents is pretty meh

[soft kindle]

I could swap that and Trench Fighter to Field Improv and... Grenade Tinkerer?

[gilded wraith]

I'd path through improv to get to the bottom. I'd also lose the WS modifiers in favor of going deeper middle tree.

[willow prairie]

serrated blade is generally kinda mid

[gilded wraith]

I think serrated benefits combat blade or high cleave weapons the most.

[willow prairie]

yeah

[gilded wraith]

Trench Fighter is nice, but really shines with slower weapons like rashad.

[soft kindle]

are the trinkets fine?

[willow prairie]

attack speed is alway good

because its both damage and safety

[gilded wraith]

I prefer toughness, toughness, health. Might look into gunner resist if you see your deaths trending that way.

[willow prairie]

it's not like you can spend the point elsewhere anyway on like 90% of vet build

[gilded wraith]

Fair. I'm a taxe addict so not as crucial.

[willow prairie]

taxe need attack speed for single target lol

[gilded wraith]

Hmmm, maybe the WS has been compensating.

[tame lodge]

Double Toughness is fine

[soft kindle]

Would you swap stam regen for gunner res?

[gilded wraith]

I'd swap at least one of them to it. I think you get some diminishing returns after the first one (gunner resist). Vet got a baked in stamina regen boost that's helpful if you haven't played them in awhile.

[tough nova]

Triggered

[willow prairie]

having 2 gunner res is basically no brainer

[gilded wraith]

I run this if it helps.

I swap to a + 3 stamina in place of the health when I try knife for all the push attacks.

[gilded wraith]

If you run mods, the Uptime Mod is really helpful. I had to adjust my playstyle a bit to swap frequently enough to get good use out of Agile Engagement.

[shy valley]

does deadshot's buff go away if you run out of stamina?

[narrow frost]

yes

[shy valley]

damn

[hollow ibex]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1sisudb/veteran_psa_smoke_grenades_are_made_to_create_a/

reddit moment

[turbid ibex]

rent

[tame lodge]

Good news is that at least they know smokes exists

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/pukekolawg-gif-2219179965988616935

[sharp epoch]

they need to make smokes impact grenades like batman

so people actually know you throw them at your feet

[tame lodge]

Helldivers moment

[turbid ibex]

dellhivers

[willow prairie]

reading the comment make me wish i was illiterate

[slow spade]

I bet they've never even used smokes

[void dragon]

score one for ogryn supraoreoreetheeth

[willow prairie]

the worst fucking part is like smoke was figured out aged ago

[cobalt bear]

whoever came up with the 250 specialist / elite kills for adept assassin penance i will find you

[willow prairie]

that like nothing

[tall torrent]

It’s super ez tho

[cobalt bear]

is certainly not

[tall torrent]

It is tho

[turbid ibex]

which one is adept assassin

[cobalt bear]

perhaps easy to get yes but gathering the kills themselves is tedious

[willow prairie]

are you playing on sedition

[cobalt bear]

weapons specialist

[turbid ibex]

250 elite/special kills with weapon specialist? that sounds pretty easy

just takes some time

still better than fucking long bomb

[arctic ridge]

Until the Expedition update.

[cobalt bear]

long bomb was easy though???

[turbid ibex]

fair

[arctic ridge]

That other veteran penace though, the one with the, 'no ammo left + 90% accuracy end of mission' -- is that the overall hardest one?

[cobalt bear]

ping the ground to see the distance man

[unreal nova]

Just use double barrel and only shoot pointblank.

[arctic ridge]

Will keep that in mind.

[turbid ibex]

i already got it from the expedition bombs

[cobalt bear]

ahh understood, but yeah this one is probably by far the most tedious penance

all of the other characters are nearly done grinded out

ogryn is actually the other one that i havent yet grinded out all penances for, he's missing only 4, in which i just need to kill thounsands

but for adept assassin penance... 10 kills per mission for 250 kills is very tedious

[slow spade]

hit 3 people -> shoot someone in the head -> do this 250 times

[tall torrent]

hardest is on overwatch, if u do it legit

[slow spade]

or just use a weapon with high crit

[tall torrent]

how do u only have 10 per mission

there's no way

[turbid ibex]

that is either a huge skill issue or youre playing on sedition/malice

[cobalt bear]

auric

[tall torrent]

what weapons are u using

[cobalt bear]

heavy laspistol 😔

that may be the major wrong here

[tall torrent]

use smth that can 1 shot kill

[toxic reef]

that prob doesn't oneshot much

revolver, plasma gun

[cobalt bear]

i did use helbore lasgun, but i should prob use bolt pistol

blaze away and gets hot on plasma right?

[tall torrent]

no

[cobalt bear]

no?

[toxic reef]

rising heat and gets hot

[cobalt bear]

understood

there we go

thank you mamelukkikala

[arctic ridge]

Oh yea, that annoying one.

[tame lodge]

If you want Blaze Away then it's BA Optimized Cooling

But the better combo is still gets hot Rising Heat

[turbid ibex]

rising hot

gets heat

[frigid rover]

what was adept assassin again
something to do with crit weakspot kills?

oh, right

yeah i recall using revolver a lot for that, i think, worked well enough

[jovial yarrow]

I did adept assassin with bolt pistol and just hip fire clicked on shotgunner heads until I got it

[gritty fable]

heyo, can someone explain a thing about plasma, in update patch notes there's line about charged shot ammo consumption, min should be 1 and max 8, but actually min is 5 while max is 8, is it really like that, or some of my mods interfere with charged shots?

[tame lodge]

Minimum to fire is 5

Yup

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-ever-happens-chud-chudjak-soyjak-90-seconds-to-nothing-gif-9277709574191520604

[tall torrent]

charged shot can't be fired below a certain charge % value which happens to use 5 ammo

[tame lodge]

Truly another moment of Fatshark knowing their game

[slow sky]

Its bugged

[turbid ibex]

its not really bugged

at least i dont think it is

i think its more like if you were able to fire immediately after pressing m2 it would only consume 1 ammo

but because you need to charge for at least a minimum amount it doesnt happen

[slow sky]

I mean
Its not the only part that got bugged tho
While fixed now the lights cleave were 9.5 instead of the intended 18 due to it not fully being disconnected from the charged at every part, since the lights were considered a half charge shot

[turbid ibex]

i mean the ammo part i dont think is a bug

the cleave on hipfire was indeed a bug

[slow sky]

The intent was literally to make the charged shot scale from minimum up to 100%, which is why the ammo cost going from 1 to 9 reflects that so it gives low charge shots a reason to exist

If it is intended to be that way, then it solved absolutely nothing

[hollow ibex]

🤡

spamming channels for what lol

[rocky vine]

BRAGGING RIGHTS

and it is not really spam

[tame lodge]

As a spammer myself

https://tenor.com/view/jujutsu-kaisen0-yuta-okkotsu-gif-26767662

You're spamming

[turbid ibex]

tf does this mean

[tame lodge]

Kek

[tame lodge]

You seriously don't know?

😭

[turbid ibex]

no

wha is it supposed to mean

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/duke-dennis-feels-the-aura-aura-duke-aura-farm-gif-12250327613032664645

[turbid ibex]

is it just a clip of some guy aurafarming

[tame lodge]

It's just feeling ominous Aura dawg

No

The dude walking in is cursed

His classmates felt the curse once he walked in the room

[turbid ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/chen-touhou-touhou-project-chen-yakumo-catgirl-gif-10143081783211581010

[tame lodge]

Anyways watch jjk0

[turbid ibex]

i have a lot of stuff to watch

jjk is like on the middle of the priority list

[tame lodge]

Better get started

Also relatable

[turbid ibex]

procrastination is a bitch

[hollow ibex]

push it down to the bottom

hell, just cross it out

https://tenor.com/view/yes-nod-yeah-yup-agree-gif-17858763

[tame lodge]

Weak Aura

[hollow ibex]

you're talking about the writing?

[tall torrent]

Yea so functionally speaking the change made wasn’t good enough due to this “bug”

[tame lodge]

I wish Fatshark had playtesters

https://tenor.com/view/mus8029-dj-khaled-gif-3555378993500057042

[tawny badger]

genuinely tweaking because I keep trying to dodge trapper nets only to be bodyblocked by the most obese poxwalker known to man

[tame lodge]

Genuinely tweaking because I keep trying to enjoy Gunlugger and all the twinks are Brauto tier or worse

https://tenor.com/view/kenjou-cat-500x-soup-slurp-gif-2518396184030093114

[slow sky]

???

They pillage now dude

[tame lodge]

Dealing less damage than a brauto

[void dragon]

the weapons themselves are still garbo, its PBB what makes them crazy

[tame lodge]

💀 💀 💀 💀

[slow sky]

Yeah, I'm sure one single shot on a fully automatic weapon is a great test of weapon strength

[tame lodge]

Yes

Just play Brauto scum

Since Brauto deals more damage per shot anyways

Oh

And scum gets 100% ammo back

💀

[slow sky]

Brauto scum cant hit twink gunlugger damage numbers bro 😭

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/kenjou-cat-500x-soup-slurp-gif-2518396184030093114

Somehow the bigger weapon deals less damage

https://tenor.com/view/kenjou-cat-500x-soup-slurp-gif-2518396184030093114

#buffGunlugger

[tall torrent]

why do og guns have to be gatekept by PBB

[tame lodge]

But alas

We'll never have good things with Fatshark

[tall torrent]

why do og melee have to be gatekept by heavy hitter

[void dragon]

ObeseFish, that's why

[tall torrent]

no I'm asking cole, he's the one defending them here

[void dragon]

it would be nice to have a twink on a melee ogryn

but it SERIOUSLY doesnt feel good to use

[tawny badger]

the jokes write themselves

[tall torrent]

and obv I'm not gonna get an answer

[void dragon]

they do? do they use a 2B pencil?

[tame lodge]

And why's PBB not refunding 100% of the ammo back

You have the worse weapons

[void dragon]

because we dont need it, just need the guns to not shoot cotton candy that the skill ignites

[feral jetty]

remove gunlugger so I never have to see a mister e rumblergryn who doesn't use their melee ever again

[tame lodge]

At least you'd get to shoot more bad bullets

[void dragon]

jokes on you, Mr E is eternal, just like dark times and suffering

[feral jetty]

[tame lodge]

But anyways

#buffGunlugger

[void dragon]

the issue is what the hay youre supposed to remove from PBB to give to weapons like Ripper and Twinks to make them strong while keeping the combination somewhat ok?

[tawny badger]

HB

[void dragon]

hard like ogryn muscle and soft like ogryn belly

ogryn jokes, strongerest self writing ones

[tall torrent]

damn rly no answer

ig it was hard

[void dragon]

I mean, logic dictates he is wrong

[tall torrent]

no I'm just curious

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-everybody-hates-chris-terry-crews-lol-lmao-gif-15937321

https://tenor.com/view/kenjou-cat-500x-soup-slurp-gif-2518396184030093114

[void dragon]

take the 15% damage of PBB and put it on all the guns, at least part of it

[tall torrent]

I don't get it I really don't get why og melee has to be gatekept by heavy hitter and og ranged has to be gatekept by PBB

there's no GW lore saying a gunlugger og need to just suck abysmally at melee

[void dragon]

there needs to be some form of trade between the "melee" side and the "gun" side

but idk what should be the best way to make it

[tame lodge]

Because somehow the same type of abhuman that can canonically outmuscle Space Marines has to have soft hits

[tawny badger]

it's all that nurglin

[tame lodge]

True

[slow sky]

because they wanted pbb to be strong and so they did it and thus dug their own grave

if they nerf pbb to buff ogryn guns, community would riot

[tame lodge]

They already did it once

Do it again

[slow sky]

if the buff ogryn guns without nerfing pbb, balance would manage to have died 5 more times

[tame lodge]

Rip 32 fire stacks

[void dragon]

and probably Rannick isnt feeding us the best rashuns, or enough of em

[void dragon]

why? wouldnt that make them in the same spot?

[slow sky]

at the same time they managed to make it useable on every gun instead of just 1
and 16 stacks still demolish

[tall torrent]

PBB can be strong without guns being ass at base

[slow sky]

but its a nerf

[tame lodge]

Well they did reduce the rashuns supply

[slow sky]

and thats BAD

[tame lodge]

"No rashuns? Grut me!"

[tall torrent]

this is a gun with 0.6 flak ADM and less dps than braced autogun

[tame lodge]

😭

😭

[slow sky]

my point is they dug themselves into a hole

[tall torrent]

the blessings aren't even that impressive on it

[slow sky]

where either outcome results in a massively negative outcome in different directions

so they just wont do anything

[tall torrent]

blaze away and inspiring barrage are t1+ lvl blessings for literally every other gun but when u need to shoot 13 bullets to get a stack on a gun that shoots 10.75/s there's a clear problem

[tame lodge]

Fatshark proved time and time again that they are capable of making drastic nerfs

Just do it

[tall torrent]

so many well-intended changes being downscaled into not mattering at all

[tame lodge]

Nothing ever happens

[tall torrent]

u can't possibly gaslight me into thinking the falchion buff mattered in the slightest either

just another example

[slow sky]

depending on the gun, theyre still really good
rippers love both of those
and so do the twinks when theyre on gunlugger, because holding down the trigger for extended periods of time is the entire point of the tree
you can literally fire an entire mag, cast ppb at the end, and you had 75% of your entire firing time at max stacks of both

[tall torrent]

yea and the entire mag fired before PBB is horrible DPS and basically just waste of ammo

why does it have to be like that

why do I gotta waste ammo first then cast PBB to make it good

why does it have to have PBB to be good

why does og have dogshit melee without heavy hitter

why is ogryn kit so gatekept

[slow sky]

you realize you can also just
pick another blessing if this one doesnt fit how youre gonna use the weapon????

[tall torrent]

yea and the other choices aren't attractive either?

[tame lodge]

Which ones

😭

[tall torrent]

I'm forced into mid picks through and through?

[slow sky]

but all of your points are answered with the same thing
they dug themselves into a hole by buffing one side of the interaction too much without touching the other enough

[tall torrent]

like u do realize that fire frenzy and deathspitter don't gain stacks from PBB burn dot kills right

[tame lodge]

Hmmm today I'll will

[tall torrent]

this would be a great combo on anything else

[tame lodge]

Play ceaseless barrage

[slow sky]

i dont use those on gunlugger

i use charmed reload

[tall torrent]

but the gun at base is so ass that it somehow struggles getting them up

crit scaling also horrid

[tame lodge]

Which btw

[tall torrent]

0.5 finesse is not saving this dogshit

[tame lodge]

Doesn't get 15% ranged damage after reload

[slow sky]

which triggers on casting PBB

[tame lodge]

Even though you know

Has reload in the name

[tall torrent]

can't u guys at least give it good finesse so crit build matters outside PBB

[slow sky]

thats a definitive no

[tall torrent]

or giga buff the crit dmg node

[tame lodge]

Charmed Reload

Looks inside
Doesn't proc on reload talents

[slow sky]

we already did

[tame lodge]

[tall torrent]

it's still not good enough tho

[slow sky]

thats the best that one is ever gonna be

[tall torrent]

it's scaling from 60% of a 0.5 so the end result still isn't good

[slow sky]

they simply do not want ogryn to be good at crits because finesse doesnt fit ogryns identity so thats the end of it

same with dodge linger

[tall torrent]

it rly just sounds like a whole lot of empty excuses to justify poor decisions

[tame lodge]

Rip
Mid tier forever

[slow sky]

thats not something thats ever gonna change

[tame lodge]

🚬

[tall torrent]

yea so twin stub cooked forever

[tame lodge]

Worse than a Brauto

[tall torrent]

thank u for being straightforward with that at least

[tame lodge]

🚬

Ooh I know

Nerf Brauto

So Twink is better

🚬

#buffGunlugger

[tall torrent]

while ur still here can u explain to me why they buffed falchion the way they did

I am genuinely curious

[tall torrent]

can they at least make og melee not dogshit without heavy hitter

would that be anywhere near the realm of possibilities

[tame lodge]

Oh wow
My PC definitely doesn't like Mewgenics

I blame the cats

[slow sky]

i wasnt involved or around for those changes i dont really remember

[tall torrent]

cool so the rest and/or FS are at blame

[tame lodge]

Yeah

That's why I wish they had playtesters

🚬

[tall torrent]

they do and most of them are gud people

like cole here

[tame lodge]

Cole Avatarded us

😭

[slow sky]

but plenty of us disagree on lots of things

[tall torrent]

yea but dats normal

[tall torrent]

any chance on this tho

there's no lore saying a gunlugger has to suck at melee so surely it can be done right

[slow sky]

no idea

also power maul kinda still obliterates shit on gunlugger

[tame lodge]

Not happening man
Just accept ogryn will always be kept down by Fatshark

[tall torrent]

I was looking through og tree the other day and I'm still baffled that og has a 5% reload speed talent exclusively for the gun side

[tame lodge]

🚬

[tall torrent]

it is way way way better with double stagger talents still
like, with those, power maul gets a t0
without, maybe a t2

[void dragon]

was in a game but TRUE that is a gamechanger, will never be possible how foolish of me to think otherwise

[tame lodge]

• Roaring Advance

[tall torrent]

u should watch less brainrot

and consider barrelling urself immediately

[tame lodge]

Too late man
Too late

[tame lodge]

[void dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/deja-vu-anime-car-gif-24099480

[tall torrent]

can they reduce the brace spread when firing continuously at least

[tame lodge]

The next Twink buffs will be in 2028

Don't worry about it

By then you can play as beastmen with Heavy Bolter

[void dragon]

ObeseFish: as if, 4050 and im taking risks

[tame lodge]

So it won't matter anyways

🚬

[void dragon]

im willing to believe that one halloween we will get beastmen cosmetics for each class

*inhales all the hopium of the room

[tawny badger]

felinid psyker

send tweet

[grand perch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1sj1xfa/the_great_collage_of_darktide_character_names/#lightbox

finally a reddit post worth checking out

[serene bough]

mature content warning

lol

[tame lodge]

Fucking

Portland Resident

Anaconda Buns one knows ball

Ok Plaketket really knows ball

[dry cloak]

Newest beauty @median folio

[potent iris]

powerful

[dry cloak]

airsoft deagle

Heres me ak @median folio @potent iris

[median folio]

nice

[dry cloak]

payed 750 pln for it few years back

its over 1k now

[potent iris]

gorgeous

[dry cloak]

also

jungle mags

[potent iris]

also just like

wood furniture my beloved

[dry cloak]

i also have ump45

thats

weird

i would need to sell it

[glad temple]

How the fuck do you do the long bomb penance?

It's the stupidest one

[dry cloak]

granat w powietrze i sie modlisz by wybuchł im nad głową

najprościej zrobić na ekspedycjach

[glad temple]

Ah
Expeditions might be the way didn't think

Havent even tried expeditions yet

[willow prairie]

damn

[agile mango]

grenadier or grenade tinker for frags? I'm running lethal prox bistol

[dry cloak]

both

[agile mango]

is longshot any good on plasma in havoc 40?

IDK if makes you meet any breakpoints

[glad temple]

Did the penance finally

Just had to go to mortis trials

The frag grenade explodes at I think 42 meters

Do you guys ever use the smoke grenade?

[hollow ibex]

not below havoc

[quaint marsh]

I think it was Consignment yard that is one of the best ones for it as far as normal missions go

The penance that is. I got mine on accident there lol

[sharp epoch]

not sure with helbore but plasma build nah

[calm shard]

they're SO good in havoc and SO unnecessary outside of it

[tame lodge]

I alone am responsible for low visibility maps

[hollow ibex]

killing heretics with lung cancer

[tame lodge]

No one remembers that passive smoking is also bad

[tidal fox]

Makes the game outrageously easy

Run it in auric with grenade replenishment perks and you'll have constant uptime

Bombers wont throw anything in there, trappers have to get extremely close, dogs circle around too much, and gunners and snipers wont hit shit in there

Effectively getting rid of about half the enemy roster

While u deal with melee

[calm shard]

I remember it pretty disticntly actually

[brave acorn]

I heard somebody say that the smoke will also break los for rager spawns, etc, meaning you can blitz past melee hordes in havoc

[tidal fox]

I wouldn't know

Maybe thats true

[glad temple]

I got the penance through mortis

You can have a perk that makes the smoke heal you

[tawny badger]

alright man

[glad temple]

Red barrel my beloved

[tawny badger]

where's the kill 1000 allies version fr

[void dragon]

Loyalist barrel when he is used for the glory of the Imperium

[tawny badger]

ok seriously what's with captains not spawning with shields

[void dragon]

Wait, that's a thing? Why I'm stuck with shielded captains all the time?
(Most likely a bug of ObeseFish, they have a back of doing that bonehead issues)

[feral stratus]

I thought that was a thing for Low difficulties

Does that happen in higher diff?

[tawny badger]

I've been encountering unshielded captains in damnation

[feral stratus]

Damn

No clue, only seen it once

[tawny badger]

I guess it's a bug since it only occurs sometimes

[feral stratus]

And it was helping a friend on malice

[high token]

which mk for chainsword?

[hollow ibex]

13

tho really they both are mid

[high token]

I know...

[agile mango]

is longshot useful on plasma gun for havoc 40 breakpoint?

[tall torrent]

if u play WS and don't have exe stance, no

[high token]

maybe ill go chainaxe instead

[tall torrent]

best plasma breakpoint is exe stance + FT

with that said, in my experience, FT kinda doesn't get used as often as it should with exe stance, cuz u don't have the need to mark enemies to help ur own shots when stance does it for u

[hearty panther]

2 stanced 2 focus

[high token]

anyone got a decent helbore build?

[somber axle]

You could use the Sniper build from the pins

Looks like this

2 points left over (1 for grenade choice, 1 other personal choice)

[high token]

mfg im blind

[somber axle]

I'd recommend 15 stack MMF

Personally I'd swap off Field Improv into Withering Fire

If you use the Helbore Mk V you charge shots fast enough to drop Weight of Fire and can take Hot Shot to really make the cleave from Withering Fire go wild

If you prefer the III or IV stick with Weight of Fire

I think those two need WoF blessing way more to feel responsive enough for matches

[high token]

no counter fire?

[somber axle]

It's mostly personal choice though and tbh I think the Mk V with Weight of Fire becomes an Infantry Lasgun that kills Crushers

No counterfire because with Ogryns node your Exe Stance has a 9 sec duration/reset on killing elites/specials

And that is so so much time to get another elite/special kill that it's basically full uptime across a map

Be aware that there's currently a bug with Exe Stance dropping the damage buff if you get grabbed by a mutie/pounced by a dog

Highlights stay active but the damage bonus is lost

So even if Exe Stance seems active you'll probably want to hit it again to get your damage bonus back

[high token]

No longshot either? seems kinda made for this

or is it just overkill

[somber axle]

No because Helbore has one of the worst swap speeds in the game

I think only Boltgun is slower for Vet ranged weapons

You'll feel the difference when you need to swap melee to deal with a horde then swap back to ranged to snipe a Bomber

Longshot would be nice but it's unnecessary tbh

You don't need it for breakpoints because Marksman's Focus (especially with 15 stack node) and Exe Stance put your damage per shot through the roof already

[high token]

would you consider smokes on havocs instead of frags?

[somber axle]

I forget the exact numbers but unbuffed swap speed Boltgun is like 1.03 sec swap time dropped to 0.8-ish swap time and Helbore is around 0.8/0.9 by default and drops to 0.5 I think

It's such a huge difference in matches for being able to adapt properly

Also yeah smokes are really good for havocs

Anything under havoc and you don't need smokes tbh

[high token]

melee is any of the good ones or something specific

[somber axle]

Tbh I usually run kraks but smokes are very strong as a better psyker bubble

[high token]

ik guide says tac axe

[somber axle]

Tac Axe is probably the best option as a melee sidearm for Helbore

Power Sword is too slow without Trench Fighter or Weapon Specialist imo

You need at least one to make that weapon better than pulling teeth

You could run shovel or knife but your horde clear with knife will be awkward

Rashad Combat Axe feels too slow without Trench Fighter or Weapon Specialist imo but if you took your extra point and dropped it into Trench Fighter over 15 stack MMF subnode you could probably run Power Sword or Rashad Combat Axe comfortably

[high token]

Im most used to running rashad and knife tbh, so I think I might just learn how to use tac axe, no horde clear seems bad

[somber axle]

Tbh you could also just swap Field Improv node from the guide sniper build into Serrated Blade if you want to go Knife or Power Sword

Extra point into Trench Fighter

I've seen a few Vets say Power Sword Sunder blessing with Serrated Blade performs well

Up to you

[high token]

Ig ill try out both and see what fits me

[somber axle]

You have options depending on your tastes

[heavy rover]

yep, unless I'm dealing with rotten armour, I'm bringing smokes

[finite skiff]

What blessings and marks do y'all run for horde clear shovel?

[tall torrent]

Check pinned guide

[glad temple]

And what do you guys think of the stealth ability?

[hybrid plover]

Decimator is the ideal choice

Mk1 shovel
Uncanny + Decimator

bonk bonk bonk

[tall torrent]

It’s really funny for sudden dps

[high token]

isnt it good for clutch rez/rescue?

[heavy rover]

not really when compared to Voice of Command, where you can now get the rez talent without the radius or cooldown penalty

[high token]

that takes an extra talent point

[tall torrent]

Yes
But it’s not much beyond that

CD quite long

[high token]

cant you do a funi oneshot like with zealot shroud?

also hellbore giga fun, but feels like on auric there's not enough stuff to shoot

[slow spade]

sadly only the zealot version got the funny damage boosts

[slow spade]

barrel your teammates so you need to shoot more

[high token]

turn on friendly fire so I can just shoot them instead