veteran-class

[elfin glacier]

same with shock maul. And he values the debuff greatly for team play

hahaahahaha

ok I shall need to get my friend on this discord

or to read the guide at least lol

[hybrid plover]

Dom come on man, you're better than that to say that the Falchion is good

[tall torrent]

falchion, shovel and shock maul in t1 is hilarious

[slow spade]

"rashad" -> in just Good tier

bruh

[hybrid plover]

Yeah and that

That's

[slow spade]

I find it funny that the Mk3 Psword is in Strong

[hybrid plover]

I really do feel like a lot of these tier lists are based on feel rather than actual quantifiable value

[slow spade]

its just a worse mk6

[elfin glacier]

On the one hand making a proper tier list might be good. On the other hand that sounds impossible since it depends on your build, breakpoints, what your gun and melee combination is. Too many factors.

[hybrid plover]

It's still strong tbf

[slow spade]

I doubt they've even actually tried to use half the weapons they "rate"

[hybrid plover]

It's just that there's no real reason to use the "worse" variant really.

[slow spade]

I wish tier lists were at least honest with something like "have not tested" tier or something

[hybrid plover]

If mk6 wasn't there, mk3 would be a considerable choice

So I see the logic there.

[turbid ibex]

i mean tbf mk3 is way less stamina intensive than mk6

[hybrid plover]

The crazy thing I'm seeing

[slow spade]

I personally don't with its moveset being heavy focused, no charge cancel, and seemingly weaker push attack

[hybrid plover]

Is putting Antax in "Good"

[turbid ibex]

wait nvm

i thought you were talking knife

[tall torrent]

I will also say

[slow spade]

I think tier lists are just a humiliation ritual at this point

[elfin glacier]

Im sorry if I caused you emotional damage with that tier list lol

[tall torrent]

I kinda changed my mind on t0s

I think there're actually 4 t0 melee weapons

[turbid ibex]

what is the fourth one

[hybrid plover]

It's honestly not the worst.

[slow spade]

chainsword? 🥹

[tall torrent]

power maul with slam + impactful + skullcrusher + opportunist on a heavy hitter build

[hybrid plover]

Wait

[tall torrent]

u can unironically break rager combo with light atk

[turbid ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-nerds-giggle-fortnite-video-games-characters-gif-17229870

[slow spade]

one day lol

[hybrid plover]

Why are we lying about VII shovel

It's not good 😭

It's basically a bridge between mk1 and mk3 shovel where it tries to do a little of what they both excel in while not excelling at all

Mk3 gets away with having a latch because it's really fast.

[elfin glacier]

so is the Mk 1 the good shovel to use?

[sonic kayak]

Your face is good

[hybrid plover]

Imo yes

[elfin glacier]

I just find the idea of using a shovel halarious

[sonic kayak]

I love the poke on the Mk 1

[elfin glacier]

if I can murder ragers or crushers with a shovel its just halarious

[tall torrent]

like, it's nowhere near the other 3's dps
but this level of stagger is hilarious

[elfin glacier]

its so stupid but then again, smacking someone with a shovel will probably kill them IRL lol

[turbid ibex]

stagger so big it stunned the video player 😭

[slow spade]

oh so it's not just me lol

I've been seeing people link videos that don't properly play and I've been so confused

[elfin glacier]

One think I learned with Heresy diffculty. I need to learn how to survive a horde when surrounded. I tend to die right now.

[void dragon]

does it need slam too to make the breakpoint on top of impactful?

[turbid ibex]

dodge

[elfin glacier]

any tips on what I should be doing? Do I just need to make sure I am not backed into a corner?

maybe tunnel vision is getting me killed by geting trapped against a wall or surrounded.

[hybrid plover]

Dodge and push.

[elfin glacier]

ok then its sitatuional awareness I need to work on so I dont get cornered

[narrow frost]

Comes with time

Learn the maps and how enemy reacts

[tall torrent]

slam helps a lot for PA spam

[tall torrent]

u playing rn?

[heavy rover]

Get really comfortable with the sound cues if you haven't yet

[elfin glacier]

I will say the guy who linked me the helbore build, chiefs kiss. That beast does so much damage lol

I am getting on to play

I chated a bunch here because so much was down at work lol

as long as I dont get attacked from behind I am good

[slow spade]

pushing is 360 degrees

[hollow ibex]

Thanks

[slow spade]

helps a lot with hordes as you can buy time to push -> charge -> swing

[hollow ibex]

Could be worse, could be a lot better

[slow spade]

or push -> drop nade

[tall torrent]

yea no this is pretty hilarious

if I didn't stagger that rager too far out of reach this would be like 6s to kill 6 dreg ragers

which is ~same speed as power sword

[elfin glacier]

ah right nades dont self damage like in SM 2, maybe I should save 1 as emergency get off me moments

[tall torrent]

I can join

[elfin glacier]

oh cool give me a second

need to reset my computer

[twin sapphire]

if you're running shredders yeah it can be a good idea

[tall torrent]

@hybrid plover I genuinely think this is a t0 weapon

the only thing it's not good at is monster dps

but its direct competition (mixed horde performers: karsolas, shield) also not good at monster dps

[hybrid plover]

Oh I've been feeling it's a solid t1 minimum

[tall torrent]

I think it's t0

[hybrid plover]

Wouldn't be surprised for t0

The crowd control is massive

[tall torrent]

but t0 only if u go mega impact route

8s CD push stagger
SP explosion stagger
+105% melee impact from talents
rush/taunt for stagger
skullcrusher + opportunist to take advantage of all of these

[tall torrent]

wats ur FS friend code

[elfin glacier]

ok I will get it in a sec

[final quarry]

I heard you can do an animation cancel with the power sword special action. Could anyone tell how to do it?

[hollow ibex]

You need mk6

And then it's special followed very quickly with a tap of the block

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1429357012969455718/6F10801.MP4?ex=68f5d7f4&is=68f48674&hm=a9f9d453af445e840432df77afe70908c7510704b0b93195d1b89cee30eb07f3&

You can see me do it here

[elfin glacier]

@tall torrent sent you my friend code

[slow spade]

not mag dumping hordes?

[hollow ibex]

I gotchu

[slow spade]

omg its like I never left quickplay 😭

[tame lodge]

Ain't no way an Ogryn made it to t0

https://tenor.com/view/firework-car-firework-car-celebration-explosion-gif-11021849298352325525

Big day

[tame lodge]

Kinda crazy when you remember that Brauto 4 deals 100 damage to flak and ogryn peashooter deals 94

#buffGunlugger

[tough nova]

Truke💀

[tidal fox]

you know

they should add like another rarity

except you get 3 blessings instead of 2

that would be funny

[tall torrent]

then power sword becomes undisputed best melee in the game bar none

[elfin glacier]

that was really fun playing with guide wip. We just ran through the levels lol

speedruning lol

[tall torrent]

that wasn't rly speedrun

proper speedrun would be ignoring enemies and just going forward

low diff don't spawn enough enemies to prevent u from pushing forward quickly

[elfin glacier]

its speedrunning for me being a scub lol

though it does help that our vet builds dont need much if any ammo

maybe just rushing through the levels would be a better way to put it

[hollow ibex]

this is why i don't play with path 😭

[tall torrent]

I was super rusty

got rekt by gunners + melee chip

[elfin glacier]

by super rusty I thnk he went down once lol

in three missions

[hollow ibex]

same

[tall torrent]

yea normally stance vet is indestructible vs gunners

[elfin glacier]

ah so thats why you guys use stance over voice

[tall torrent]

I forgot to push with power sword to make space

[hollow ibex]

smmmmh

[elfin glacier]

that is a big deal, since one of the times I went down was a whole army of gunners spawned behind me lol

[tall torrent]

it makes vet much better at doing the things vet does best

[elfin glacier]

Guide's reaction was kind of funny

Why did you go down? Oh shit, thats a lot of gunners lol - paraphrased

[tall torrent]

revolver problem is needing enemies near u for melee kills to reload

[elfin glacier]

so always take that ammo on melee kill is using revolver, or bolt pistol I imagine.

[tall torrent]

revolver, boltpistol, shotguns

[elfin glacier]

oh, that is a great soluation to combat shotguns hour long reload lol

[tall torrent]

yea
shame shotguns are still mid

cuz no reliable 1 taps and short range

[elfin glacier]

yeah it feels like the Revolver just does want you'd want a shotgun to do

[hollow ibex]

laughs in manstopper

[elfin glacier]

horde clear seems easily handled by the power sword

[tall torrent]

yea still

[hollow ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1459984272713846998/5CD8D51.MP4?ex=696543cf&is=6963f24f&hm=ab8c067a156f28ebea87596b2ff7f310f05927e71917b6500c063c78e8889623&

[tall torrent]

outside of ammo yes

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/burst-gif-5503707468695863087

[tall torrent]

boltpistol IV is also kinda better? just for the sake of having range

[elfin glacier]

on the bright side that is still decent range for a video game shotgun

too many games have shotguns be point blank nukes when shotguns should have quite a lot more range.

[tall torrent]

for a video game shotgun, DT combat shotguns are quite long range (15~20m effective)

but

the actual reliable 1 shot range is not that impressive

just 12~15m for the most part

[elfin glacier]

ah the problem is too much fall off

also, feels kind of akward not having a weapon to pick off a sniper from a distance

[tall torrent]

and it's inconsistent

because shotgun dmg values actually check which hitzones u hit

and add all dmg up based on the pellets hit separately

and combat shotguns want to ADS + aim headshot

[elfin glacier]

Is this just a fatshark thing? Lets make things more complicated then it needs to be? lol

poor shotgun

[tall torrent]

yes

[elfin glacier]

I can see why the heavy laspistol is popular. If your going to use use your melee to kill crushers and Ragers, might as well use a decently accurate, ranged, an ammo efficent side arm and just power sword everything else

[languid crypt]

Real life shotguns are good out to 80-100 meters

Videogame logic just sucks

Division 2 does a good job with them

[tall torrent]

Laspistol is one of the few weapons that’s good on every class that can use it

It’s one of the very few truly balanced weapons imo

[quaint marsh]

and also dont have an 8m wide cone

[elfin glacier]

its really werid that the heavy laspistol does more damage then the infantry lasrifle lol

[tall torrent]

It depends on armor type

Inf las does much better over range & vs maniac

Laspistol does much better vs flak

[elfin glacier]

what are maniacs?

[tall torrent]

Dreg rager, both flamers, mutants, scab trappers

The crazy people u want to stay away from

[elfin glacier]

do they have flak?

[tall torrent]

No, maniac enemies are maniac whole body

[elfin glacier]

does your guide have a list of what enemies have what armored type?

[tall torrent]

Check kuli’s guides

I didn’t include it because he published his before I got to it

And even if I add it, it wouldn’t be in as much detail

[elfin glacier]

ah ok, will check. It would be better than asking you the armor type of every enemy lol

[tall torrent]

Tho I might consider adding them later on (not priority atm)

[tall torrent]

You usually only need to know that

Ranged weapons typically only care about 4 armor types

[hybrid plover]

Until psyker has it.

[tall torrent]

Unarmored (Dreg gunner & shotgunner, bombers)
Flak (scab gunner & shotgunner)
Maniac (flamers, trapper)
Unyielding (reaper, monsters)

[tall torrent]

I think it’s balanced even on psyker

[hybrid plover]

Really now?

[tall torrent]

It’s good straight out of the box
And gets much better with investment

But it’s not ever overwhelmingly strong

You don’t get to cheese mechanics with it

[elfin glacier]

Oh the yellow gunners and shotgunners have flak armor. That's why they are a bit tougher to kill

[tall torrent]

It’s not good vs maniac or unyielding without crit

[hybrid plover]

Empathic Evasion be like

[tall torrent]

Yea other guns abuse it way better than laspistol lol

[elfin glacier]

What enemy is the reaper?

[tall torrent]

Ogryn with a machine gun

[elfin glacier]

Ah OK interesting

[tall torrent]

If he gets to shoot at u he can 100-0 you in 0.5s

[hybrid plover]

It's one of the fastest moving though. Which is why I still think it's a tad bonkers on psykrr.

[tall torrent]

Reaper almost always come first in terms of elite priority

[elfin glacier]

So ogyrn gunners count as unyielding

[tall torrent]

I think psyker’s sprint bonus at base can be reduced

[hybrid plover]

Especially with the really high finesse curve that just gets blown up by psyker's finesse bonuses with the appropriate talents.

[tall torrent]

Ranged weapons we also only rly care about their heads’ armor type

Weakspot

[elfin glacier]

Yeah I guessed that reapers were crusher tier priority given their size lol

[hybrid plover]

They're more dangerous than crushers.

[tall torrent]

Reaper is like

Most dangerous elite bar none

lol

[hybrid plover]

Reapers can easily snowball a run.

[elfin glacier]

Very high ranged damage

[hybrid plover]

That isn't the reason why.

It is high.

[tall torrent]

Which is why u didn’t get to fight them in the games we played

[hybrid plover]

But the main issue with reapers.

Is the knockback.

You get hit by a salvo and don't have immunity, you're cooked.

[elfin glacier]

Oh. They mess with your positioning

[tall torrent]

I rly don’t think it’s that ridiculous compared to Vraks V

It’s not nearly as good as Vraks V on psyker

I think a balanced weapon needs to be fairly good at baseline and fulfill a specific role well, and have the option to get much strong enough given worthwhile investment

Which laspistol fits pretty much perfectly

It has really significant downsides

It’s complete ass at bodyshots and falls off horribly over range

And weak maniac damage without crit

[elfin glacier]

My strategy when playing with guide was just to try to stay near him at all times. It was a very wise plan. 😆

[tall torrent]

u gotta melee more

play like u forgot the swap to ranged keybind

and force urself to melee fight every enemy

[elfin glacier]

Yeah I need to practice clearing missions with just melee.

I just wanted to try just how well the ammo on crit talent worked. Turns out it's very effective.

[final quarry]

Ty but also why can't you do it with the other mark

[hollow ibex]

because fatshart said so

[tame lodge]

Fatshark

[void dragon]

https://youtube.com/shorts/U-5t71wWRvk?si=18oiZYka72iToxYS

[elfin glacier]

I am practicing melee with my zealot and yeah your template is a big improvement over whatever random stuff I was using before. That and relic blade is feels really strong even at grey tier. Im manging to kill crushers and ragers in melee so thats an improvement.

[young nacelle]

Runeblade very good

[elfin glacier]

I think its a lot eaiser for me to fight elite enemies in melee because the runeblade is so easy for me to get good dps from

[young nacelle]

Zealot can play pretty reckless and not die

Run it down brother

[elfin glacier]

that and I switched to using fury of the faithful lol

[young nacelle]

Every time

[elfin glacier]

chorus is too much of a dps lost for random teams.

[young nacelle]

Chorus is very good but I like the stealth

Chorus hella good tho

[elfin glacier]

Fury + charge relicblade evne grey tier no blessings was choping up the elites like crushers and ragers, and the armor bace guys, forget their name

[young nacelle]

Ngl as long as ur pushing forward and killing the crushers and shit

Its a dub

[elfin glacier]

working my way up now from heresy to damnation with my zealot

and I finally dont feel like Im being carried

[young nacelle]

I’m down to play if u want we do auric tho

[elfin glacier]

just had a run where the fastest two ogyrns I've ever seen just rushed through the whole level. I didnt realize if you play right, you just bullrush right tough, crushers, ragers and anything else lol

that was less then 14 min clear, was funny how fast we beat down the boss

[young nacelle]

Gotta put urself in those high pressure moments

Cause havoc hurts like a bitch

[elfin glacier]

I think its really the right choose of weapon. Relic blade is just strong even without any blessings. Easier to use then evern power sword. Even if power sword has the higher damage celling.

[young nacelle]

Relic blade combat or dueling for the most part

I seen a zealot solo carry havoc 40 with combat knife

He inspired me

Mofo was cracked

I run it down with combat knife and die

In hopes to be like him

[elfin glacier]

I have seen havoc 40 solo videos. They are like the Space Marine 2 asbolute solo runs. Completely inhuman skill level lol

[young nacelle]

The game is played kinda different

Gotta run in circles tbh

A lot more kiting

Auric missions u kinda stay in a zone but havoc u can backtrack as far as u want in hopes to reviving ur team

Try the flamethrower out

It’s pretty cool on zealot

[tame lodge]

Base bullrush stops at the first ogryn
Upgraded bullrush only stops at monsters

[elfin glacier]

oh I didnt know bullrush was a skill

I meant more they were just rushing through the mission at a rapid pace.

I dont know the ogyrns skills well enough to know what they were using.

[tame lodge]

Yeah
Base is called Indomitable
Upgraded is called Bull Rush

[elfin glacier]

@limpid trout sent friend code

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/seahawks-football-run-beast-mode-activated-push-gif-16168884

Average bull rush

[young nacelle]

Oh shit

Ima be on in like 5

[elfin glacier]

this is a funny game to play. Taking it slow can lead to being overwhelmed. Rushing through the mission actually makes it easier as long as you can kill the elites fast

[young nacelle]

Did u send me a friend request?

[elfin glacier]

yes

oh I messaged you

send my friend code

in discord

[turbid ibex]

Other way around no?

[tame lodge]

Idk

I've been lugging gun

PBB bot

My day be so fine

Then boom

Brauto 4 deals 100 damage flak body

Peashooter deals 94 flak body

Outperformed by a brauto is crazy

https://tenor.com/view/job-application-meme-gif-11660183272536871757

[elfin glacier]

@tall torrent How much value do talents like blood redemption hold for surviability becuse you dont include them in your templates

[arctic ridge]

If they are a pickaxe & a gatling, then I’ve quickplayed with that ogryn duo before. As a vet, gotta outpace the gatling ogryn to snag some ammo for oneself.

[elfin glacier]

I was using the las gun ammo on crit perk so ammo was a none issue lol

[somber axle]

Shock Trooper and Survivalist are so funny with any of the Lasguns because they've all got solid ways to get crit on demand

Helbores end up ammo positive going through encounters and it's so funny

Infantry Lasgun after the ammo buff barely needs it and I've been running a goofy max TDR set up on Vet for Maelstroms lately for funsies

this is going to look very dumb to others but this has been so so fun

triple 17% toughness curios with +5% toughness perks and 20% gunner resist on all of them

I was able to drop Ghost off of my Infantry Lasgun because I can just facetank Reapers/Gunners on Auric Maelstrom runs

oh wait whoops one mistake

this is the one I was running

Confirmed Kill is absolutely better for toughness generation but the TDR on Exhil Takedown stacking with the 10% TDR node, Iron Will and the Gunner Resist is so funny to play with

hit headshots or die

Skirmisher would 100% be better for damage but it's really funny having both +25 toughness talents and almost 300 toughness to eat everything

[steep flower]

Get 15 focus stacks node

[weak hamlet]

What are the combos for the mk6 knife ? Everybody's telling me it's better but after so much time with the mk3, 6's moveset feels strange

[trim hemlock]

Basically spam push-attack whenever you can afford it/can spend stamina on them, and if you can't, chain Heavy attacks.

Lights on Mk6 are not that great.

[weak hamlet]

Like is the horde combo just 2 heavies and a block ?

[trim hemlock]

Or push attack, if the horde doesn't have elites in it/enemies that can easily break your block

[weak hamlet]

But the push attack is a stab?

[trim hemlock]

Push attacks have cleave equal to heavy attack (~6.5?), so if multiple enemies overlap, you can hit several at once

provided it's not like mass-heavy enemies, like bruisers (but you can hit up to 2 of them with PAs)

Chat,

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a17e4332-fc91-4fbf-b5b1-eaff5224b308/vet-build-1

How's this for a build? Is it too greedy (like no Iron Will)? I know that there are compromises to be made in terms of skill choices, but I'd like to read some justification for making changes from somebody willing to provide feedback.

[amber cliff]

Trench fighter over iron will is genuinely a crazy move

I’m no authority on vet builds though. But I don’t think 10 attack speed is better than it no? Shouldn’t cost more with your pathing either

[weak hamlet]

Both are indispensable IMO

[amber cliff]

I was unaware trench fighter was held in such high regard?

[pseudo fiber]

It's good but not like 1000%

[trim hemlock]

I try justifying that while considering that:

• I have smokes, so ranged damage is no big concern majority of the time, and pressing F to regain toughness is also an option,
• Iron Will provides some melee safety, but you are allowed to take like 1 more attack from bruisers before you’re below the threshold for IW to be active, so is it really mandatory?

[trim hemlock]

Out of all skills in the way it makes „most sense” provided that Superiority Complex doesn’t provide some relevant breakpoints for Bolter III / Power falchion

[undone saffron]

whats the best blessings fo power sword

[thorn lark]

power cycler + sunder / brutal momentum

[weak hamlet]

Power cycler + slaughterer is also good

[hybrid plover]

Your shout has noticeable downtime. And Iron Will also helps with flamers and bombers significantly.

Ya know

Well flamers do actually get affected by smoke but they're not completely prevented.

Bombers just don't care.

[weak hamlet]

IMO it's insane how better some weapons feel with just 10 to 20% attack speed (same reason everybody runs swift slaying in the better game that ends with tide)

[hybrid plover]

And even with smokes, fact is, you'll get caught offguard at times by ranged units. It's not a full coverage enough imho to say losing so much toughness damage reduction is worth it.

[weak hamlet]

Wait, smokes are used now ?

[hybrid plover]

Yes.

They've been rising for a while.

[weak hamlet]

Cool, nice to have another option

All my meta knowledge comes from when maelstrom was the hardest content and colomnus mk5 was one of the best vet weapons

I miss my dakka

Before when the balance didn't revolve as much around difficult = carapace

[hybrid plover]

I mean they've always been good at what they're meant to do.

It's just that it was redundant to have them for the most part.

And well, they're not offensive blitzes. You have to cater your build specifically around them so options are limited.

They're okay in Auric and below, but in Havoc, assuming the vet can handle losing an offensive blitz, they're actually really good there.

Since guns are extremely lethal at the higher ranks.

[trim hemlock]

Bombers would be a fair argument for taking it, but...

You do not want to linger in bombed areas for long, so you either push out of them or back off - IW will only help you mitigate damage from them for so long - and sure it's not small mitigation either, just is it really worth it to get the skill to make handling that particular enemy worth it? It's not a binary answer for sure, and there are other use cases for where IW allows you to be more aggressive - but then so do smokes, and it's a team-wide effect, instead of only affecting you. Does one need to cover all the "bases"?

In any case, what skill would you give up for it, if you were to make a decision to take IW?

[hybrid plover]

Personally, either Focused Fire or Revive Shout

[trim hemlock]

Revive shout stays - it's just been changed and I want to give it a tug.

I could see Focused Fire a fair exchange, though, especially on maps where it's not as good value/other team member have better damage multiplying skills/blessings.

[hybrid plover]

Also something to consider. IW helps more with melee than you might think. Since Confirmed Kill is actually a viable take to have for any build pretty much, you can get a really good flow of toughness regen going which helps to mitigate melee chip.

[trim hemlock]

It does - it ties into what I'd described as "being more aggressive"

[hybrid plover]

Heck I don't even think Focused Fire is really all that good in general.

Redirect Fire's always been my preferred subnode.

[weak hamlet]

I don't really like revive shout, already didn't like it in Vermintide 2. It often makes it so a lot of people hesitate to shout in fear of "wasting", and a lot of times when I'm downed I'll be surprised by the revive and not be ready when I'm back up 😅 I admit it's a very minute reason but 🤷‍♂️

[marsh shard]

Is double barrel shotty any good?

Not sure if its been buffed since I last played

[steep flower]

Not taking iron will is hyper pepega move

Trench is not required everytime
Iron will is

[steep flower]

More stacks = better debuff & redirect fire buff

So yes; its good & should be used

[mortal quarry]

Hey guys I am new in here

[steep flower]

Its better to prevent than to heal
Thats why such talents will never be considered very good

[mortal quarry]

Recently started playing

[weak hamlet]

It's fun, idk if it's good

[steep flower]

Its nice but has glaring weaknesses like… no range… would not trust a boi with it to clear specials & ranged units in general on average

[mortal quarry]

Any tips for a veteran build ? Early game ?

[steep flower]

Ye this needs help

[trim hemlock]

So is it about backing up the use cases I discussed with goblin or do you have any further feedback on that?

[trim hemlock]

As in what, do tell - "this needs help" isn't really exhaustive

[steep flower]

Iron will is one of the main center pieces that makes vet not dead

[hybrid plover]

Vet has no real damage mitigation other than their toughness.

[steep flower]

Do you plan to go full auto with boltgun or its more of a backup? Its important

[steep flower]

Like every class

[trim hemlock]

DT revive shout has the benefit of you still having access to Duty & Honor, so there's merit in using it pro-actively still, rather than holding it for the darkest hour. It's more so about having the ability to revive someone in a bad spot, if it comes to that and you have shout available, and you can't revive them manually otherwise.

In VT2 it wasn't as clear-cut, since Merc's shout had good competition in that slot for just more uptime, or a team-wide DR effect

[hybrid plover]

Every other class has some means of damage reduction to make health loss less impactful. What I mean is, toughness is literally all vet has before they start getting absolutely melted because they don't have any of that at all.

Ironically, they're the one class that straight up only has TDR. No DR.

Or maybe not ironically.

So you really want to try and maximize your toughness retention as much as possible.

[steep flower]

For pubs yes; in general tho its still too niche; the moment the talent gets value is when someone ROYALY fucks up and in every other situation you are deemed ded cause if someone will try to get you they at the very best fail & get damaged if not die

[trim hemlock]

Full auto only in emergency that there's a lot of mass in my face and I can't clear it otherwise to keep up the pace/not get stuck in a corner - otherwise just regular shooter/occasional minute swarm thinning.

[trim hemlock]

For adventure Aurics it is too infrequent an occurrence, I concur, but Havocs do feature moments where losing one person is detrimental most of the time, if they can't be rescued immediately

About the build, I suppose I could drop Trench Drill and Focus Target for Iron Will and Weapon Specialist (won't need AS increase from Trench since WS can compensate for that)

[steep flower]

Not a great choice cause your range is not that reactive; of all things trench would be better

[livid sphinx]

Bruh I just had something rebarded that just happened

[steep flower]

I had a prototype build for this boltgun on vet but its more like you shoot more and melee is at best 50/50

[livid sphinx]

in one of those sniper ventilation missions there was a cutscene and snipers were already shooting at us

we got damaged

We won though

but that is so rebarded

[steep flower]

Give this a try
Be my lab rat
Can use Volley Adept instead of Tac Reload but i still think its better to have tac
Get a melee that can defend you well vs mixed horde & ocasional crusher (kraks will work but they are for bosses mainly)
Could also replace kill zone if you get alot into melee (will happen) and get trench for att spd

[trim hemlock]

Yeaaa… this is way more shooty

I could give this a try at some point, though

[steep flower]

Enchances the boltgun and you only lose stagger from shout & immediate restoration; you’ll be fine if you watch your positioning

[livid sphinx]

I dont understand why they dont just add a matchmaking option for havoc

Its essentially what we are doing for it anyway cause no way i'm gonna accept people who are havoc levels much lower than me

[trim hemlock]

Fatshark doesn’t like going against their design in general

If they’d designed a feature that’s to be played through a dedicated matchmaking system, then they will likely not make it QP-able, because it creates more problems to solve and they generally don’t dwell on one type of content for too long trying to fix it, in case people don’t like the design intention.

[toxic reef]

matchmaking for high havoc would be a nightmare, you'd just get trash team comps

[trim hemlock]

That’s one thing, but imagine providing good enough matchmaking for all 40 steps of the ladder

You couldn’t do that without concatenating some brackets

And they don’t want to do that, because that’s not how the game mode was designed 💀

[pseudo fiber]

I mean after some of the builds I've had people try to get into my games with I get why it's not match made

Guy with 15 talent points and blue weapons wants in to your havoc 40

[turbid ibex]

I'd let him in

[steep flower]

Yeah like srsly boi? You’re underleveled & want to tackle the hardest content there is?
Inspect from party finder mod is a blessing; you see so many dogwater choices & underleveled bozos wanting to do H40 its crazy

[olive halo]

powerDI is also pretty good for this, checking after why someone died a ton and then going "oh yeah that makes sense now"

[hybrid pulsar]

Hey yall

What’s for a recon Lazgun build

What’s the better keystone

Focus target?

Or marksmen focus

[turbid ibex]

Focus target

[tame lodge]

Due to Recons low finesse mmf doesn't get good value

[turbid ibex]

Recon has bad finesse so mmf sucks for it

[hybrid pulsar]

I felt it

Had a hunch focus was just better value

Thx for your opinion

[livid sphinx]

Matchmaking means you're gonna get matched to people who are around your level though

[marsh shard]

In theory

[undone saffron]

do i cop the lasgun or nah

[turbid ibex]

Nah

You want one with 60% mobility

Otherwise youre just wasting melk bucks

[undone saffron]

figured

[livid sphinx]

I feel like the melk bucks are the most useless currency right now

Cause you can just get the best stuff through the armory

Then level/refine them up

[turbid ibex]

It does help with saving up on diamantine if you happen to find a weapon with optimal stats

And also curio gambling

[livid sphinx]

Its not like i've ever ran out of diamantine or other currencies since the first month of release

I just hope they add something else to dump melk bucks on

[turbid ibex]

Im pretty sure i have a third one somewhere too

[livid sphinx]

Wtf

Wait how many hours do you have

[turbid ibex]

I play on xbox so idk

But plenty

Upgrading weapons and curios is one hell of a diamantine sink

[hybrid pulsar]

Yep

Same lmao

Had to spam havoc for something even remotely consistent

[turbid ibex]

Even the 4k you get from events just evaporates

[hybrid pulsar]

Especially if your leveling all the masteries

[livid sphinx]

Hmmm

Idk I have 400 hours

I stopped bothering about currencies at around 100 hours

Shit I feel like a no life nerd now

🤣

[pseudo fiber]

I have 850 hours

Don't worry there are those worse than me here

[undone saffron]

diamantine shortage

[twin sapphire]

i'm out of diamantine rn lol

14k plasteel and like 40 diamantine

[tough nova]

I think i have 200k diamantine at this point

[twin sapphire]

can i have a small loan of like 10k diamantine

[tough nova]

Social systems in a fatshark title?

We dreaming Boiz

[twin sapphire]

maybe i should start playing havoc to get more diamantine

[tough nova]

You'll get enough just by playing. Each perfect roll wep you get is less diamantine you need to spend going forward.

[tall torrent]

that's on zealot right?
usually u don't need more than enemies within enemies without + second wind for zealot

[elfin glacier]

so not worth it over DPS skills. got it.

[tall torrent]

usually no

this is what I play on zealot atm

[sonic kayak]

Aurics back to back

[elfin glacier]

I actually did some Auric runs last night with FranktheTank

I can see why Krak Grenades are popular lol

[tough nova]

A fellow stam aura enjoyer.

Maximum zoom

[tall torrent]

I also made my melee tier list

idk if shud post

prob super controversial lol

[tough nova]

Drop the list bro

[tall torrent]

Items within the same tier are in alphabetical order.
No internal ranking within the same tier.

Tier 0
Combat Axe (III) - Hive Scum
Force Greatsword (both) - Psyker
Power Maul - Ogryn
Power Sword (VI) - Veteran

Tier 1
Arbites Shock Maul - Arbitrator
Assault Chainaxe (XII) - every other class
Combat Axe (III) - every other class
Combat Blade (VI) - all
Crusher - all
Delver's Pickaxe (all) - Ogryn
Duelling Sword (all) - all
Force Sword (II, IV) - Psyker
Heavy Sword (all) - Hive Scum
Relic Blade (X) - Zealot
Shivs (both) - Hive Scum
Tactical Axe (VII) - all

Tier 1.5
Assault Chainaxe (XII) - Psyker
Assault Chainsword (both) - Hive Scum
Battle Maul & Shield - Ogryn
Crowbar - Hive Scum
"Devil's Claw" Sword (VII) - Hive Scum
Sapper Shovel (I) - Veteran
Shock Maul & Shield (both) - Arbitrator
Heavy Sword (all) - every other class

Tier 2
Assault Chainsword (both) - every other class
Bully Club (all) - Ogryn
Cleaver (III, IV) - Ogryn
Heavy Eviscerator (XV) - Zealot
Latrine Shovel (all) - Ogryn
Power Falchion (both) - Veteran
Shock Maul (both) - all
Thunder Hammer (II) - Zealot

Tier 3
Bone Saw - Hive Scum
"Devil's Claw" Sword (VII) - every other class

[elfin glacier]

post, we must JUDGE thee 😛

oh wait he did lol

Interesting, Ive seen people say they prefer the 1h force sword over the 2h one but if the 2H one has the basic wide sweep moveset of the relic blade then it will be my go to weapon.

I love Relic Blade, I actually can get clear mixed hordes the easiest with one.

[distant plaza]

Where Tacaxe IV? 👀

[tall torrent]

I don’t look at other variants if there’s a straightforward best variant in a weapon family

[elfin glacier]

is the shocking part power maul? lol I am guessing hive scum has ways to hit breakpoints to one shot heads with combat axe.

[calm shard]

chainaxe WINNING

[atomic void]

Power maul????

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1491206513384099960/4BA9A5247D639515.mp4?ex=69d7828a&is=69d6310a&hm=2ca3ce7c587efef2405cca6437ad54d37a46767aa168b600358e14d2496ac56a&

[jovial yarrow]

I like it cause it makes scab ragers and maulers disappear

[trim hemlock]

That's Skullcrusher + what for blessings? Just curious.

[elfin glacier]

it really was power maul, Ive scene people call it weak lol

[calm shard]

It was weak for several years so

[elfin glacier]

ah so it recently got buffed

sweet

[tame lodge]

Evisgoat15 on t2

[tall torrent]

Opportunist

[elfin glacier]

I have heard skullcrusher is the goat blessing

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s basically TH sidegrade

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh
That's Ironhelm

[last marten]

what does an ogryn paul build look it

[tall torrent]

Full melee/stagger spec like any good ogryn build

Ult either rush or taunt, both are good

[tame lodge]

#buffGunlugger

[tall torrent]

Power maul is t0 because slam + impactful gets you pretty hilarious stagger breakpoints & stagger duration

[calm shard]

and you also have the funny special attack!

[tall torrent]

Even tho power maul is actually not good at monster dps like every other t0 melee

[trim hemlock]

Something like this could be considered "baseline"

and then you can lean into different things with the remaining 7 points

and take ability upgrade(s)

[atomic void]

my big issue with it is outside your special u tickle armor with it

it deals very well with fleshy mfs tho

i remember beating up like 20 shotgunners by just spamming lights in seconds

[calm shard]

THE unique strikedown heavy after push

[atomic void]

the what

[tall torrent]

No u don’t

@last marten rush/taunt

[atomic void]

did i play it wrong

[tall torrent]

H smiter does like 3k on crusher with skullcrusher + opportunist

[atomic void]

smiter is the unique heavy?

[turbid ibex]

bleed on rush?

[tall torrent]

Remember opportunist is a global rending buff

[turbid ibex]

oh right

[tall torrent]

And it only checks if enemy is staggered

[turbid ibex]

forgot about opportunist

[trim hemlock]

Bleed on charge is also good for just pushing forward and having a booted-up DR from bleeding enemies

[turbid ibex]

i still dont really see 5 stacks of bleed doing much for you but idk waht the numbers even are for it

[pseudo fiber]

Yoink I may play some ogryn tonight then

[turbid ibex]

when i tested the bleed also just lasted way too short

[elfin glacier]

I will say that DT at Auric feels more breakneck paced then SM 2

also way more melee focused

[tall torrent]

Well yea DT is like 30x SM2’s melee pressure

[elfin glacier]

SM 2 if you know what your doing you can gun down everything and manage your ammo well.

[atomic void]

sm2 is not a fast paced game in general

[tall torrent]

I remember cyber gaslighting me saying bruisers are not higher melee pressure than SM2 tyranid melee warriors

[elfin glacier]

Id have thought you were lying but after playing a few Auric runs. 100% lol

[atomic void]

bruisers are an enemy type i dont even notice

[tall torrent]

And then u showed urself that they actually are higher pressure than warriors

[atomic void]

yeah after i literally limited myself lol

u dont limit yourself in game

i just gadoosh them

[elfin glacier]

On the one hand, warriors force you into melee all the time to kill them off. In SM 2 gunstrikes after parry deal most of the damage outside specalized block melee builds. So everything usually dies to gunstrikes or firepower. Your melee weapon is really just for parry lol

[atomic void]

games cant be compared anyway cause sm2 literally has a STOP ATTACKING ME button and its built around it

while darktide is dodge based

[elfin glacier]

But Brusiers can actually one shot you with an overhead you can only dodge

[tall torrent]

Bruisers don’t overhead u

[elfin glacier]

and are way tankier then any warrior

wait

[atomic void]

block/balance weapons actually deal dmg

[elfin glacier]

What do you call the big carpace armor Ogyrns?

[trim hemlock]

Bruisers are medium-sized melee dudes with toughness multiplier on their attacks (and they basically deal Groaner amount of damage otherwise, on top of having more mass and health)

[trim hemlock]

Crusher

[atomic void]

balance this patch especially deals really good dmg i can 1 combo majoris with xenophase

[elfin glacier]

they do but I feel like Finsise parry is just way easier lol

[atomic void]

god i miss playing hordeslop but my internet is so fucking tragic 😭

[narrow frost]

Where are you at?

[elfin glacier]

Oh I wrote Brusier instead of crusher lol

[atomic void]

parry weapons dmg is too low for me to use them

[last marten]

ig ill try it
my ogryn is level like 150 and ive never pauled before

[atomic void]

im in syira now

[tall torrent]

I started playing Witcher 3

[atomic void]

worst internet known to man

[tall torrent]

Since new dlc this year soon

[narrow frost]

Oof

[atomic void]

THE GOAT

due for a replay tbh

[tall torrent]

I’m going to dump yennefer

[atomic void]

fuck you

[trim hemlock]

Good game but frankly hasn't aged all too well

[tall torrent]

Duality of man

[atomic void]

lmao

yennefer is love

[last marten]

which was yennefer again

[atomic void]

the prettier one

[tall torrent]

Black hair sorceress

[last marten]

oh yeah
nah bad call boss

[livid sphinx]

Wait witcher 3 has a new dlc coming?

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s sorta leaked

[elfin glacier]

Triss because redheads = perfection

[livid sphinx]

Wtf

[atomic void]

if i replay witcher again ill heavily mod it tbh

just like i did with cyberpunk

[elfin glacier]

also, Yenifer is abusive. 😛

[atomic void]

i wonder if ghost mod is maintained

[tall torrent]

Yen is alr

[livid sphinx]

11 year old game getting a new dlc

[hollow ibex]

What the fuck

[elfin glacier]

apparelty the DLC is set up for witcher 4

[livid sphinx]

I prefer an abusive girlfriend

[atomic void]

witcher dlc, witcher 1 remake, and witcher 4

peak

[tall torrent]

Witcher 1R is after 4

[tall torrent]

Ye

[atomic void]

i hope they keep the writing from 1

i dropped it but the writing was really good

[tall torrent]

Prob to make Ciri get into Witcher route regardless of which ending u went with

Idk if dlc will be playing as Geralt or Ciri tho

[atomic void]

geralt's story is done idk why they do with him

[tall torrent]

My geralt build is just snorting crack

I have only 3 points into axii for dialogue

[elfin glacier]

take him out back old yeller style

[tall torrent]

They’re gonna kill him like Joel TLOU2 style

And then geralt cameos in Witcher 4 are just all flashbacks

[atomic void]

i will nuke poland

[twin sapphire]

yeah potions were busted in 3

maybe i should do a replay

[tall torrent]

And then Ciri chases after Geralt’s killer across the entire Witcher 4, killing countless people across the continent just to forgive the killer at the end

[atomic void]

le vengence..........is le bad......

i will play last of us 2 eventually cause the reactions to it are interesting

people either glaze tf out of it or loathe it

[calm shard]

I think he's actually already dead in the comics

[atomic void]

no inbetween

what comics

[calm shard]

books

not comics

brain

off

[atomic void]

lol

[tall torrent]

Book ending for geralt is that he and yennefer both died

But both maybe got revived in the end

Open ending

Games pick up after book ending

[calm shard]

but yeah Geralt's dead in the books

he gets stabbed with a pitchfork by a revolting peasant

[turbid ibex]

big if true

[tall torrent]

Anyway back to this
No because u don’t usually want to waste abilities on bruisers in the first place so u should just be able to melee-only no chip them

[elfin glacier]

I didnt know Brusiers were an enemy type hahahaha

[atomic void]

they get mogged anyway

ragers are much better example of melee pressure in this game

[tall torrent]

Rager is maybe 60x warrior pressure

[atomic void]

get caught off guard and see your hp go bye bye

tbf they'd have to tone down warrior dmg severely if they up their aggro
1 mistake on absolute and your entire health is gone

[turbid ibex]

which ones are tyranid warriors

[atomic void]

this is why people hate chaos spawns

[turbid ibex]

ive played like an hour at most of SM2

[atomic void]

and because they're skill issued

[elfin glacier]

oh Brusiers are barely more a threat then Pox walkers

I got an image album for the enemies now lol

[tall torrent]

Bruiser purpose is mass & hp

[elfin glacier]

its Crushers and Ragers that put the melee presure on you.

[tall torrent]

They’re quite a bit more durable than poxwalkers and higher mass

Crusher melee pressure is quite low

[elfin glacier]

say that when 5+ of them spawn in small corridor

[atomic void]

crusher is more like area denial

[tall torrent]

1 krak

[atomic void]

danger that's slowly walking to u

but there's 100000 ways to cheese them anyway

and since everyone builds for carapace they end up being a non threat 99% of the time

[tall torrent]

I still have this clip from when I queued into Mr Unc’s game

[elfin glacier]

Maulers and Ragers are melee presure

[atomic void]

i love u uncer

[tall torrent]

Mauler is very low melee pressure

[elfin glacier]

Everything I think is a lie.......

[atomic void]

kraks are so......kracked

[turbid ibex]

lmao

unc seems like a chill guy

his video on the boom bringer was actually what made me buy scum lol

[tough nova]

He's my favorite tuber. Not sweaty silly content is my jam.

[tall torrent]

It’s just understanding the game

[elfin glacier]

though your right, the main melee presurre is just waves of zombies + brusiers body blocking you.

[tough nova]

I think the threat comes from managing multiple types. For example crushers and maulers aren't dangerous with space. But when you add in specialists and dense hordes space is restricted making heavy melee units more dangerous. And the flip side dense groups may force you to stand in pox gas longer than you'd like.

Thats also what I love about the game its like a dynamic priority puzzle with gore

[thorn lark]

I started replaying. First person mod.

[tall torrent]

wtf there’s a first person mod?

[thorn lark]

Gervant first person

[spark bough]

If I wanted to kill everything with a las weapon, which would be the best for that

[calm shard]

helbore

[spark bough]

Doesn't it crit less?

[calm shard]

it has surgical

why would it

[spark bough]

I just know the las pistol crits a lot

Which is what I've been using

[slow sky]

Laspistol has an inherent +15% crit chance

[twin sapphire]

does hitting an enemy with one pellet of a shotgun count as a hit? for make every shot count penance

[willow prairie]

yes

[slow sky]

Helbore does not, but it has surgical which functionally is way better because youre already spending time ADSing as you charge it up so you get way more than 15% crit chance per shot

[slow sky]

Yes

[twin sapphire]

so prolly best to run db for it and just muck around in expeditions and extract 1st area

[slow sky]

Yea

[twin sapphire]

gonna try to grab overwatch and every shot count in one game

ooh i'm red now

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/red-role-sukuna-jjk-stand-proud-red-roles-gif-10845959139408539546

https://tenor.com/view/starman-red-role-red-discord-discord-role-gif-2640270114487734715

[high ferry]

what red mean

[slow sky]

Color

[twin sapphire]

hell yeah, enlisted a friend and got both in one go

[hollow ibex]

Better dead than red!

[amber vortex]

But you're red

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-gif-19730757

[weak hamlet]

Excuse me the krak grenade penance is five hundred enemies?!

[hollow ibex]

Not that bad

Just play normally

[turbid ibex]

ye

compared to fucking long bomb

[tough nova]

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-gif-26135237

[void dragon]

me who did it by sheer accident when i was still not lvl 30 veteran: why is THAT one hard?

[turbid ibex]

perish

[mental barn]

so picture says stability should be 60%, text says mobility should be 60%

which one is it?

I want to try the ILAS, am about to make one

[sonic kayak]

Try both

[weak hamlet]

It's not hard at all it's just long

[tame lodge]

Yeah
But pretty much every enemy colored in grey counts

[weak hamlet]

That's what she said

[tame lodge]

Actually I don't know if Scab Flamer counts

Because he's grey

But he's a maniac

[weak hamlet]

Grey ? I view scabs as black

[tame lodge]

Maaaaaniac on the floor

And he's dancing like he has never danced before

[weak hamlet]

I had no issue with long bomb, I did it when there was like 5 penances, you just need a big map and infinite spawns

The raid map where you take thingies from train cars and get them to the valkyrie has such conditions

[tame lodge]

Just act like a certain leader

And throw kraks

Into a certain group of people

Damn
History does repeat itself

[tall torrent]

I got pic text wrong

it's mob dump

mb

[mental barn]

ok ty

[weak hamlet]

The good thing is sweep and clear only took one maelstrom mission because of how many enemies there are so I can go back to survivalist and never come back to fire team again

[tame lodge]

Trapper also doesn't count

Because despite grey

She's a maniac

Maaaaaniac

On the floor

And she's trapping like she never trapped before

[tall torrent]

fixed in guide, thanks for pointing it out

[tall torrent]

easiest is to do it in havoc with m21st mutator

[weak hamlet]

I guess but I'm not going back to havoc or else I'm losing the sanity I have left

[tall torrent]

then look for scab seed and throw them at grouped scab horde units (shooter, stalker, bruiser)

penance only checks center mass armor type = flak or carapace

since explosion checks for center mass armor type

[weak hamlet]

Yeah that's what I've been doing, also I'm running a gun with lethal proximity on it so it works very well

[tame lodge]

I totally forgot that it counts the 21st too

So everything* grey and blue

[turbid ibex]

what about the 22nd

[twin sapphire]

The smite one for psyker is 2500

God I hate that one so much

[arctic ridge]

For veteran in high havocs -- it seems on paper, Focus keystone with either FocusedFire/Redirect, sounds more worthwhile than than Weapons Specialist, throughout a playthrough? Due to increase for team damage against the boss onslaughts.

Or are there particular havoc modifiers where, WS keystone, is more effective than Focus?

[turbid ibex]

always prepared is a subnode

weapon specialist is the keystone

[random cairn]

is it me or playing support veteran is easyer in aurics then havok ?

[arctic ridge]

Typo, thank you.

[tall torrent]

both FT and WS are good (focused fire for FT not worth taking tho)

[arctic ridge]

Why not?

Not enough to reach havoc threshold?

[tall torrent]

it's just a bait talent

6 stacks takes longer to reach (u have to actively not tag enemies to build up stacks)

so if u tag enemies frequently (which u should) it's only adding 5% dmg for redirect fire

let's say that 5% dmg is not worth 1 talent point on vet tree of all classes lol

[arctic ridge]

Though, FT seems more utilitarian? If havoc modifiers are, boss onslaught heavy, vs. distant specials heavy.

[weak hamlet]

Do you guys do the thing where you bind tag to mouse 1 ?

[slow spade]

no and you shouldn't do that anyways to keep stacks

[narrow frost]

No, you should never do that

You make your team hate you and you lose focus target stacks

It's a double negative

[slow spade]

a shame you can't ping multiple targets

[sharp epoch]

Yeah FT only really helps for bosses

WS is more consistently used for like sniping special breakpoints or getting free melee buffs

[hybrid plover]

Ahem. Rotten armor.

[weak hamlet]

Yeah I don't either. Though I'll say the noise thing is 100% on those who complain since you can turn it off.

[hybrid plover]

Focus target, is very useful there.

[sharp epoch]

I mean it's better than nothing, but I still prefer WS for rotten

It's what a 20% damage buff?

[slow spade]

WS also leads to better damage nodes

"70% damage for playing normally"

[sharp epoch]

Well you can get both of them on the meta build

[hybrid plover]

You can very easily run FT with those nodes

It's MMF that you're really stretched for.

[slow spade]

yeah but why do that when you can just get it naturally pathing for WS

[weak hamlet]

I'm weak 😭

[sharp epoch]

Cause people always grab bring it down in the middle

[hybrid plover]

20% baseline. Redirect Fire and Focus Fire both add to that in their own way.

But the main thing about FT

[sharp epoch]

See you're basically already touching both of them in the meta build so its not more points for either

[hybrid plover]

Is that it basically says to the team to prioritize a specific target.

And that helps so much more than people give it credit for.

[slow spade]

I personally wouldn't give up precision stikes

but you do you

[hybrid plover]

I prefer WS myself but tried and true, FT is really underrated for Rotten Armor specifically.

[sharp epoch]

I like 25% toughness, and I've tested like rending buffs they're very unimpactful for crushers for me

[slow spade]

sadly the game has it coded so that every FT Vet must have a dog arbites in the team UwU

[slow spade]

Precision Strikes is the +30% weakspot damage node

[sharp epoch]

It seems very weak for just one target at a time and you have to wait like 5 or 4 seconds to get the full damage buff, ogryn taunt and zealot chorus literally give you 20% to the whole team meaning every target

[sharp epoch]

oh my bad yeah I just made that rq to show the right and middle tree

[hybrid plover]

Redirect Fire gives a full team buff for anyone killing marked targets.

[slow spade]

no problem, funny times with Fatshark names

[slow spade]

iirc 10% damage buff for all allies in coherency just for context

[sonic kayak]

I like FT because I used to be a dirty Battlefield player and spotting is winning

[sharp epoch]

That's actually not bad but the base ability is meh its 6 seconds to fully stack

[hybrid plover]

Compounded with Focus Target's base 20%>, it adds up. And I think there's consideration for the mark timing when the things you're trying to kill have inflated as fuck damage resistance.

[hybrid plover]

It's 4. 6 with Redirect Fire.

[slow spade]

does it still skip to 2 stacks if a target is killed quickly?

[hybrid plover]

It got a little buff a while back.

[slow spade]

I know that was a thing with pre-rework FT

[slow spade]

that's the current version

[tall torrent]

WS does make u significantly better at melee and addresses power sword's weaknessses

[slow spade]

2.5% per stack with 4 stacks (base)

[tall torrent]

it's 3s to full stack normally and 6s to get 6 stacks if u take focused fire but u shouldn't anyway

because killing a FT-marked enemy while having <2 stacks immediately send u back to 2 stacks

and u gain 1 stack every 1.5s

[sharp epoch]

also I feel like vet barely has points to stretch into its keystones unlike other classes I dump 2-3 points into keystones

[tall torrent]

yes

but FT + RF is normally affordable

it is a big chunk of extra dmg

I just don't take it for power sword

[hybrid plover]

Ya. 10% ain't bad when added to the 20% (actually more than that).

Right.

That's important to mention.

Max stacks isn't actually 20% damage.

It's actually more than that after calculations because of how the bonuses stack.

[slow spade]

indeed

[tall torrent]

it's x1.05^4

around x1.215 dmg

[slow spade]

oh? It's multiplicative?

interesting

[tall torrent]

tho if u are proficient ur doing mostly 2 stack marks

which is 1.05^2

still around x1.1

which is still good

[slow spade]

indeed

[tall torrent]

just think of it as a third dmg multiplier after +dmg and +strength

[hybrid plover]

That's why I was mentioning it being really underrated for Rot

[tall torrent]

x1.1 is pretty significant for plasma breakpoint for example

[hybrid plover]

Rotten enemies because of their DR naturally mean you'll end up getting maxed stacks more often in practice.

And again. In havoc, very often if something is yellow pinged ime

People tend to tunnel down that target harder.

[sonic kayak]

You've played with me, I make it work

[hybrid plover]

We grinded to 40 together last season so

I want my game to not run like ass 😭

[sonic kayak]

Same

[tall torrent]

I kinda want to play FT exe stance power sword

ngl

[slow spade]

I use that for my agri build

pretty fun

[tall torrent]

plasma does get to afford 1 extra point

I was using it for 25 toughness

but FT is a big chunk of dmg

[arctic ridge]

This is my game & some of my squad's, after the recent patch.

Pox Gas modifier is, pretty much non-functional, unplayable, for most of us.

Whereas pre-patch during the weeks-long event, the game ran fine.

[hybrid plover]

Ever since the Expeditions update, my performance has crawled to the point of unplayability without DLSS

And DLSS is broken.

So I can't use it either since my game stutters a ton with it on.

So I straight up am just not able to play the game currently until some genuine optimization is done.

[sonic kayak]

You've tried to force a different DLSS version?

[hybrid plover]

Yeah.

Same deal.

[arctic ridge]

Somehing about this goddamn patch.

[hybrid plover]

Maybe I'll try to check my file integrity but

[sharp epoch]

what is your graphic card

[unreal nova]

Lowered graphics settings as well?

[hybrid plover]

RTX 2070. Not the best obviously. But this game was not running like this when I first started playing.

[sharp epoch]

the newer dlss are worse for older cards

[hybrid plover]

It's only within the last few months that the performance has tanked this badly

[sharp epoch]

have to set it to like preset k for the old version on the nvidia app

[unreal nova]

Just turn it off if you don't have a 4080 or so.

[sharp epoch]

i mean dlss is supposed to save performance so it was necessary before for better frames

[unreal nova]

Problem is, if you don't have a 40xx or 50xx, it actually runs worse.

[sharp epoch]

it basically runs it at a lower resolution where ai makes up for the better image

not if your using rhe old dlss version

[unreal nova]

From smeary graphics to lower fps at times.

[hybrid plover]

Nah. It was not like this before.

There was a very noticeable increase in frames with and without.

And that's still the case.

[unreal nova]

Thing is, they changed/updated what ver the game has.

[hybrid plover]

Well yeah. I'm aware of that

It's only since this update however.

Where I get this very clear stutter that was never happening before.

[sharp epoch]

have you tried chanfing dlss version on nvidia app

[unreal nova]

And for my 3060 TI, it just is worse than just accepting 60 fps no DLSS. Not counting rot or blight.

[hybrid plover]

I'll see if it helps.

But yeah even when that was updated.

[unreal nova]

Because those modifiers just tank fps.

[hybrid plover]

I was having no real trouble other than well

Modifiers like

Blight and Rotten

But that's pretty much everyone lmao

[sonic kayak]

What a coincidence, those are both Fatshark's favorite modifiers and they tank your FPS!

[unreal nova]

Why don't count them.

Guaranteed 20 fps gaming.

Avg, btw.

Have both and fun times. (/s)

[sharp epoch]

preset k for the dlss is what you need to force it to

[shell harness]

turning off nvidia reflex low latency helped get rid of a lot of choppiness in my game. rtx 3080

[sharp epoch]

i think all reflex does is sync the gpu and cpu

[unreal nova]

Is better if you are GPU bound. Turn it off if CPU bound tbh.

[proud parrot]

I feel like vet has been getting hit kinda hard

They nerfed plasma and voice of command

I feel like he is worst class now

[sharp epoch]

I mean they've nerfed VoC like every major patch recenly now, it's been bad for a while

[proud parrot]

Yea that’s awful

His other two things are kinda meh

[sharp epoch]

If you're gonna play vet just use executioner's stance

If you want golden toughness, zealot chorus is the better version

[proud parrot]

Is anything actually visble other than the rapid fire laz gun now?

Cuz they just nerfed his best weapon

The kanreal laz buff did like nothing

[sharp epoch]

helbore and plasma are the best havoc weapons still

both with exe stance instead of shout

[proud parrot]

I thought helbore was considered awful

It has the super long animation

And is just way worse plasma

[sharp epoch]

They've given it some buffs like shortening the animation

and it does some things better like taking out crushers which is good for havoc level

plus it has effectively infinite ammo

[proud parrot]

Does it one shot crushers?

[sharp epoch]

I think it's like a 2-3 shot my friend plays it on havoc 40

[proud parrot]

I also feel like his survivability is bad without voc

[sharp epoch]

Exe stance actually adds a lot of survivabillity too, it gives toughness regen

and being over 75% toughness also gives toughness damage reduction

[fair shale]

Exe is better toughness ime

As long as you're proactive with it

[sharp epoch]

Yeah shout is in a rough spot, 40 sec cooldown for one knockback and full toughness

versus exe stance 10% toughness per second for like 2 minutes or longer

[fair shale]

As long as you got targets

[sharp epoch]

Basically as long as you're in a fight in havoc,

which is when it matters

[hollow ibex]

prob should be 35 base, 40 if you take golden toughness

[tall torrent]

plasma nerf barely anything
VoC CD nerf deserved

vet still top 3 class ez

[sharp epoch]

maybe DPS wise, but I think ogryn and zealot are better in the team comp for havoc

Taunt and chorus really add a lot of survivabillity whereas shout is meh

Not to mention beacon of purity is just a really strong aura to have for havoc and basically negates a modifier

[tame lodge]

Plasma nerf?
More like

https://tenor.com/view/ranier-wolfcastle-the-simpsons-thats-the-joke-gif-3545945

[tall torrent]

I think og power maul with melee/stagger spec is genuinely t0

[sharp epoch]

I did see a power maul/ stubber build recently top damage for h40

on rotten armor too it was wild

[pseudo fiber]

Vet still V good

I wouldn't worry

Psyker & Scum 1 and 2

Then there's a gap

Vet

Ogryn & Arbees

Zealot

[tall torrent]

I still despise heavy stubber design wise

but power maul melee/stagger spec is genuinely t0

[sharp epoch]

I feel like ogryn/zealot is the third pick then its either vet or arb

[tame lodge]

Arby's is last because they are mid

[tall torrent]

I think vet + arb/og

[pseudo fiber]

Interesting build crafting?

We no ave dat

[tall torrent]

I am just baffled at how strong power maul is with full impact setup

u can just admit corporal punishment to heretics lol

[tame lodge]

You can say that you've been
Impacted
By it

[sharp epoch]

power maul was fun when they broke stagger earlier too

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-everybody-hates-chris-terry-crews-lol-lmao-gif-15937321

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1491206513384099960/4BA9A5247D639515.mp4?ex=69d7828a&is=69d6310a&hm=2ca3ce7c587efef2405cca6437ad54d37a46767aa168b600358e14d2496ac56a&
I think this is just hilariously strong for mixed horde

even tho the weapon is dogshit at monster dps

[pseudo fiber]

While I think hive scum is way to strong I hope the next class has the design philosophy of you know making them fun

Arbites is just so dull

[turbid ibex]

lmao no

exestance is fucking goated

[tall torrent]

ngl I rly like stance + FT

quite fun compared to stance/WS or VoC/WS I used to play

FT+RF is just so much more dmg

[pseudo fiber]

EXE is so much fun now

FS stop touching it

Just leave it

[tall torrent]

noe

[sharp epoch]

too strong ,nerf

[tall torrent]

make red nodes refresh alongside stance

moar dmg

[pseudo fiber]

Listen path we're in the cool zone

I fear we'll get to the danger zone with more damage

[tall torrent]

not if the red nodes are moved

bottom left needs rework

I suggested smth like this to playtester before

[pseudo fiber]

Are the question marks like random

[tall torrent]

stuff I have not yet decided

but the general main path is
ranged dmg -> precision strikes -> stam regen delay (ez to grab regardless of build) -> shock trooper for las, or lock&load for non-las -> marksman (refresh alongside stance) for more dmg -> keystone

[pseudo fiber]

They should lock deadshot behind penalty nodes that make your character worse

[tall torrent]

they already did

it's called deadshot

[pseudo fiber]

yeah but more

like climbing through barbed wire

[hybrid plover]

It's times like this

That I wish they had a talent system similar to VT2

[formal ice]

No

[livid sphinx]

sexy man

[livid sphinx]

What's the fastest non train mission

[last marten]

Grendel appearance when

grendyl?

gren gren when

[young nacelle]

Yall ever just dodge and parry the demonhost to death

Dueling sword in a nutshell

[potent crypt]

Best combat axe mark?

[tame lodge]

Rashad

[willow prairie]

what with the imperium and having the shittiest haircut known to mankind

[low orchid]

what's the best melee for crits?

[dry cloak]

Ds4 and knife