veteran-class

[rocky vine]

then they nerfed how much bleed ogryn lights give

[tame lodge]

Manstopper Flechette Double Barrel with shovel

[rocky vine]

karkin obese shark

[rocky vine]

that's actually what I am runin rn

[tame lodge]

Because bleed uncanny interaction+DB being one of the best mixed hordes clearer

So it'll just work

[tough nova]

An invite cleave cannon ball that applies 6 bleed stacks

And doesnt need to be reloaded!

[sudden glen]

Dumb question, but what is this screen? I’ve never seen it in-game.

[flint iris]

Its a mod ovenproof scoreboard from nexus

[turbid ibex]

scoreboard mod

[sudden glen]

Ohhhh, that explains it.

[void dragon]

very useful mod to figure how is your (and only YOUR) performance doing in a real game

pair with uptime and you can get a good grasp on what works and what isnt in your loadout

[worthy bramble]

What should the dump stat be on a helbore rifle

[turbid ibex]

stability

[worthy bramble]

Thanks

[tame dragon]

I was just about to ask the same thing

[void dragon]

Remember that for most cases f this questions, the guide pain the pins is a very vast source of answers, give it a look

[brittle herald]

Does anyone have any suggestions to help me complete the “on overwatch” penance, I’m doing short missions with gold toughness and haven’t had it break to melee damage once. What does happen is I end the mission missing one or two HP. What on earth is causing this? What is dealing only a few points of damage regardless of toughness

[toxic reef]

melee hits deal health damage if your toughness is not at 100%

ranged attacks have to deplete all your toughness first

[distant plaza]

Play on harder difficulties, then drop down to malice when you get frustrated trying
And watch out for ragers

[brittle herald]

Something that is not melee or ranged is damaging me and invalidating runs

And I don’t know how to avoid it

[somber axle]

You could try using Infiltrate instead. Pair it with the Low Profile and Overwatch talent nodes for reduced threat and an extra charge on Infiltrate. Put combat ability regen on your curios to reduce the CD and have a CD stim in reserve if you ever feel like the pressure is too much. Stay with the team and remember Low Profile gives you 10 seconds of reduced threat so you can still fight. You don't need to spend the whole map hiding

[bold mural]

how do bombers interact with smoke grenade? do they just chuck em in there, or are they also compelled to go in melee distance of you before bombing

[somber axle]

Whatever is hitting you probably won't

The only other thing I can think of is maybe fall damage?

Careful on any drops

[brittle herald]

It’s like one damage

To my health

[tidal fox]

also try running a bunch of stamina curios

for blocking when u need to

[somber axle]

Probably a poxwalker sneaking a strike

[tidal fox]

it is likely a groaner or poxwalker just getting a lucky hit in

[bold mural]

if your toughness isnt 100%, melee damage will bleed through and damage your health

if you have like 95% toughness and you get melee'd by fodder, you're probably taking health damage

[tidal fox]

just avoid melee and go full ranged if you must

stack everything on cooldown reduction and toughness

as well as infiltrate

and a high mobility weapon

[brittle herald]

That explains my issue then I had no idea how that mechanic worked

[tidal fox]

like tac knife or taxe

[somber axle]

Yeah if you get shot right before a melee swing they'll sneak in a little HP damage

[bold mural]

toughness reduces melee damage based on percentage. 100% blocks all melee damage, but any less means damage bleeds through

[somber axle]

Fire damage too

[bold mural]

i dont remember the scaling. i think its linear? so 95% toughness is 95% damage reduction? not sure

[brittle herald]

Issue number two is malice teammates who 4/5 attempts get lost and run to the start of the mission

I would be better off with just the bots

But I can’t get a lobby with only them

[somber axle]

Btw extra Infiltrate tip! You can underhand grenades without breaking stealth

If you get surrounded and need to clear a path while in stealth just underhand a grenade or two

Overhand throws still break Infiltrate stealth

[brittle herald]

I’ve been working on veterans penance grind and have an infiltrate related penance, what suppresses enemies? The activation of it or like if I walk towards them during it do they become suppress

[somber axle]

Two shredder frags will clean up a mixed horde safely from stealth

[bold mural]

when you leave stealth

[brittle herald]

I’ve only been playing for about a month and after getting stuck in havoc 23 I started doing penances for the blue armor so I’m still learning a lot about the game

A lot of the mechanics aren’t super clear or well explained by fatshark

I’m not really sure how many penances I have to do for it

Probably very many

[bold mural]

not sure if 'leaving stealth' includes it expiring.

[brittle herald]

I guess I’ll shoot something before it ends to ensure it counts

The only other one I need for veteran is the long bomb one but I thought I would eventually get that by just playing

[hollow ibex]

That’s one I had to get deliberately

But Hab Dreyko makes it super easy

[brittle herald]

Is it early on in the mission?

[tame lodge]

They keep throwing

Something something different target acquisition system

Ignores smoke

[ebon inlet]

guys

i request

your funniest build ideas

ima ask this for every og class

[faint beacon]

I mean I suppose that depends on what you mean by funniest

As in overpowered or borderline throwing by playing

[somber axle]

I have a funny one to share

This was just to do the Killshot Ready penance for Vet which is like 3000 kills or something while at 10 or more stacks of Marksman's Focus

Click heads to 10 stacks then load special slug

Any direction you point at will turn hordes into red mist

There's probably better ways to do the penance but this was quick and funny

Infiltrate and Low Profile were just so I could comfortably stand behind a team mate getting swarmed and evaporate the horde around them for more penance progress

But you could really run any ability you wanted

If you like evaporating mixed hordes you'd probably like Double Barrel more but this was funny for clearing the penance

[dry pivot]

it was the first class I played but I haven't played veteran since launch basically

[hollow ibex]

It’s pretty sad that infil basically doesn’t have synergies with anything

Except frags

[ebon inlet]

/they are useful, not optimal, playable at damnation at least and with what you consider silly fun gameplay

@somber axle cute pfp

[somber axle]

I guess there's also Bolt Pistol Lethal Proximity Shredder Frag + Grenade Tinkerer with Uncanny rending on Knife/Shovel

For just really goofy grenades popping with a much bigger blast radius

Also thanks!

I want to see if Lethal Proximity works on Hive Scum with their rocket launcher. If it does it's probably very goofy with the current Rumbling Giants event

[ebon inlet]

very interesting hypothesis

[ebon inlet]

that is already my main build

[somber axle]

It works on Vet grenades so it probably works on Hive Scum too

[ebon inlet]

simple test

i think

[somber axle]

I'll probably do the test in the Psykanium when I get home from work

[ebon inlet]

i may do it for you lad

if you want

i just wish scum could regen nades

[somber axle]

Sure

[ebon inlet]

but probably too op

[somber axle]

The current event does that

Something like every 3 or so Ogryn kills gives 1 refresh on a class blitz so Vets end up throwing lots of krak, Hive Scum are shooting their rockets way more often and even Arbites has functionally infinite shock mines to CC everything to death

Oh and Ogryn bombs detonating rooms on repeat

But outside of the event yeah it's like Ogryn Frag but with more charges and a smaller radius. If Hive Scum had grenade regen it'd be too silly

[tulip condor]

how do you 1-shot crushers with plasma? or is it harder to do since they gave that health buff way back ago?

[faint beacon]

You could do “Shovel Knight” and just grab serrated blade with a Mk1 Shovel with Uncanny and Decimator blessings

Voice of Command probably and Weapon Specialist keystone

Gun up to preference

[somber axle]

I don't know if it's even possible anymore tbh

[tulip condor]

np, thought id ask

[somber axle]

The only weapon I know that can do a one shot on Auric level Crusher HP is a Helbore Mk IV with 15 stacks of Marksman's Focus during Executioner's Stance with a Combat Stim active

Outside of the combat stim you can do a reliable 2 shot on crit headshot

Or was it the Helbore Mk V

[faint beacon]

You don’t crusher HP change you can no longer 1-tap them

[somber axle]

I always get those two variants mixed up

[faint beacon]

Helby IV can

[hollow ibex]

I think revolver still can too?

Not sure

[faint beacon]

MMF stacks + Executioner I believe

I’ll have to ask Ainz seeing he’s been occasionally playing that on Vet

[hollow ibex]

I suspect it can with hand cannon

[faint beacon]

Most likely

Seeing it’s the carapace that’s causing issues

Anyways new Monstrosity coming eventually

Taking bets on it filtering people on release?

[somber axle]

I hope the new Ogryn Packmaster puts Carapace armour on the front of the new armoured pox hounds

[faint beacon]

Probably? I’d prefer Flak or at least bits of Cara and Flak

[somber axle]

If it's just Flak that'll be easy

Maybe Carapace head and Flak chest like they usually do since the notes mentioned that the back is meant to be exposed

[faint beacon]

I don’t like hounds even if they’re a joke to me now

Annoying

That’s it

[somber axle]

I think they need something scary for normal play because I was running some Auric quickplays for fun and had a Lights Out where we attacked and killed every Daemonhost without a single death last night

Daemonhosts are not scary anymore so we need something that is

I also want to see what the interaction is for the Ogryn Packmaster and the Arbites hound

Their interview notes warned Arbites not to do that so of course everyone will do that

[sly orchid]

Packmaster is gonna eat the mastiff and heal 50% HP

[faint beacon]

It’s less that

And more the debuff I’m worried about

Dodge recovery being reduced like FUCKKKK

[somber axle]

I hope they turn the Arbites hound into an enemy briefly and you have to attack it to break the control

Arbites dog has changed teams

[sly orchid]

The debuff and movement speed is gonna be a tough nut to crack

[ebon inlet]

WHY

[sly orchid]

Im probs gonna pre chunk its HP by doing a shroud backstab outside of its line of sight

[ebon inlet]

WHY IS THE POWER FALCHIONAT LEVEL 23

[somber axle]

Oh that doesn't work

No stealth

They specifically said in interview notes the Ogryn Packmaster ignores any and all stealth mechanics

You can't sneak up or sneak past it so at best you let someone else take aggro first then Shroud stab

[sly orchid]

I know how itl work

Its going to have the same agro proximity as a daemonhost

[hearty panther]

-points to the horizon-
Look over there! Bacon-flavoured nosh!

Then you move in for the kill

hiiiiya, one two punch, donzo

[sly orchid]

However theres a fun quirk where if you stealth outside of the line of sight of a daemonhost it doesnt agro from your stealth

My guess is the packmaster has this same quirk

[faint beacon]

Genuine Suicide watch for Scum mains though

That’s their bread and butter to stay alive aside from small DR talents

[sly orchid]

Scum gets hit once fucking dies

With arbites you can thug that shit out with perfect blocks

[faint beacon]

I feel like Vets similarish

But youll have to utilize the Carapace Hounds for Toughness

Literally Feast or Famine to survive

[somber axle]

I wonder if the dogs will ignore stealth too

[sly orchid]

Probably wont

They will be tricky cause it seems your forced to push backstab it

Unless the armor is just carapace and not bulwark shield armor

[faint beacon]

It’s it Bulwark shield I will weep

As funny as it would be

[sly orchid]

It would be absurdly cancer

Or make it so it cant be killed in 1 hit from any weapom other than a thammer heavy

And relic blade sprint stab

[faint beacon]

I’m holding out for Falchion tweaks

Holding out to hope that’ll never happen

[sly orchid]

Apperantly theyre cooking for tomorrow

So well see what theyll serve

[faint beacon]

Cooking

See I go in with disappointment so if it actually happens I’m not as dissatisfied

And if something genuinely good changes it excites me

As negative as that sounds

[tall torrent]

It does

[bold mural]

So how does ranged specialist work? Does 10 stacks mean only active for 10 shots?

[tall torrent]

~4300 crit weakspot on crusher with MF + lots of damage bonuses (no marksman)

[bold mural]

Or do you get 10 seconds of attack and reload speed, but only 10 shots for the crit chance?

[tall torrent]

Only the crit chance is for next shot

The rest apply to all ranged attacks for 10s

[bold mural]

Ooh, okay

[tall torrent]

Crit chance only works for 1 shot

[bold mural]

ahh okay

that makes sense

[tall torrent]

Which makes it work rly well for revolver & DB

[somber axle]

Thanks!

[tall torrent]

Lethal prox is basically the only good reason to use boltpistol

It’s just horribly designed across the board

[somber axle]

Yeah I was just curious because I don't think I've seen a single Hive Scum take the Bolt Pistol into Rumbling Giants the whole event so I wondered if it had no interaction with the rocket launcher or if most Hive Scum feel like they don't need it/don't know the interaction exists

[gilded wraith]

If I go knife/double barrel, what's a good secondary talent after uncanny? Do I need serrated blades?

[tall torrent]

Serrated + flesh tearer

[gilded wraith]

Good edit 😉

[tall torrent]

Blame iOS auto correct

[gilded wraith]

Mk 6 on the combat blade?

[tame lodge]

Yeah

[hollow ibex]

Mk3

[tall torrent]

Btw I tested smth related to cleave

I sorta can conclusively tell savage sweep vs wrath now

[tame lodge]

I hope it's wrath slander

[gilded wraith]

Can someone decypher this correctly for me? [H1 → H2 → [L3 → [PA] → H2]/BC] Is that H1>H2>Block Cancel, or H1 > H2 > L3 > PA > H2 for the two options?

[tall torrent]

Which weapon is this

[gilded wraith]

Mk6 Combat Blade

[tall torrent]

Yea u largely understood it right

[tall torrent]

Savage sweep is better if u have an easy-to-access attack that can reach >10 cleave

Otherwise wrath is more reliable

[tame lodge]

It is wrath slander

https://tenor.com/view/steamhappy-bounce-gif-4494413053043569714

[brave acorn]

Looks like Flesh Tearer for Combat Blade is bugged. Rather than applying 8 stacks of bleed on crit it applies 1 stack on weak spot.

[last marten]

:steamhappy:

[errant bear]

It's whatever

Like if anything is still standing after that RPG it's one shot anyway plus that little DOT usually can't kill it

[somber axle]

Oh I meant Lethal Proximity having the weird bug that makes the radius of any explosion larger including the blitz of Veteran and Hive Scum

So a pack of Crushers/Bulwarks will have more caught in the lethal zone

[errant bear]

Oh I didn't know that interesting

[somber axle]

Lethal Proximity Boltpistol + Uncanny Strikes Knife/Shovel on Veteran with Shredder Frags and Grenade Tinkerer makes for a very funny time of much much larger explosions for strong mixed horde clear

I haven't tried Boltpistol on Hive Scum yet and was curious because I haven't seen any Hive Scum using that weapon the whole Rumbling Giants event

[tall torrent]

It’s not bugged

You saw it yourself that it’s not 1 stack?

[amber vapor]

For recon las build, MK XII (fastest ROF) is best for DOT burn build. What about Mk XIV (slowest firing)? Should I still focus on DOT burn (Infernus), or damage (Headhunter)?

[tall torrent]

The damage pick is deathspitter

[tall torrent]

Kinda yes kinda no

I was testing for Evis XV specifically

Where savage sweep beats wrath pretty definitively

But most melee weapons don’t actually reach >10 cleave by default

[tame lodge]

Still wrath slander

I love to see it

[tall torrent]

Like, savage sweep on vet who has no cleave talents

Is not nearly as good as on other classes

But savage sweep does beat wrath more often if u can hit >10 cleave easily

The “breakpoint” for “hit 3+ enemies to X” is >10 cleave, basically

[tame lodge]

I did figure that one out

Specially back in havoc 1.0

3 walkers having ~12+ mass

[tall torrent]

It’s 10 because the highest mass enemies that don’t counter cleave are scab shotgunner/gunner, both being 5 mass

Anything above 5 is basically made to counter cleave by either having rly high mass, or carapace

[brave acorn]

It’s not 8 stacks either. And like you can see it doesn’t start ticking until I get a weak spot.

[tall torrent]

Flesh tearer activates on critical hit (orange), applies 8 stacks

You had uncanny strike at 2 stacks while u landed the crit hit to activate flesh tearer, where its rending affects the bleed DOT

The first crit hit in that clip didn’t get DOT tick after because it killed the crusher outright

[unreal totem]

Is shock maul good for vet? Munitorum or agni?

[tall torrent]

Mid weapon across all classes
The 2 variants are kind of equal but I think mk3 is better overall

[unreal totem]

PS is better?

[tall torrent]

Obv

[brave acorn]

I thought weak spot is orange and crit is yellow.
Also how does rending affect my dot?

[turbid ibex]

Yes

In other news fork found in kitchen

[tall torrent]

Rending affects all attacks’ ADM values vs maniac, unyielding, flak and carapace

DOT included

Check pinned guide

[brave acorn]

Hmm

The more you know

[brave acorn]

There needs to be a bot that spits out sections of the guide whenever people ask questions. You might get some peace that way

[tall torrent]

Maybe, prob not in this server tho lol

[torpid grotto]

can i dump one of the cleave stats on deathblow hsword

never thought about it

[tame lodge]

At best cleave targets

Never cleave damage

[dreamy spade]

In the havoc I played earlier the trash horde was so dense my power sword with sunder got it's cleave stopped

It was at a door opening so there was like 100 in the same spot

[tall torrent]

cleave targets maybe? wouldn't tho

defences don't affect it that much

[torpid grotto]

I’m bored

Want weird setups

[narrow frost]

shock maul, cowboy revolver, stance

[torpid grotto]

using all my strength to survive a 21 horde with that

[tame lodge]

Knife Helbore Kraks

[narrow frost]

frag nades

shrimple as

[hybrid plover]

Tac axe revolver stance do be fun

[torpid grotto]

True

[hybrid plover]

And I mean the fanned revolver:)

[thin stone]

https://youtu.be/a-g1FQLP6jg?si=swTbQFkHoOCkfS5q&t=1628

How's this build, the one at the time stamp?

My main question is, in the video, it's shown a 60% mobility and 5% melee crit chance ps6

Can I use 60% cleave targets instead?

Please ping me when you reply

Nvm I have both types of power swords

[tall torrent]

no good

[tall torrent]

check pinned guide

[tall torrent]

and stop watching this guy lol

[faint beacon]

Refrain from Mister E he really isn't a good source of information

Like Path said there's a Guide in pins that can very easily help with build making

[thin stone]

Ok

[thin stone]

why is there sunder on PS6 instead of brutal momentum?

[tall torrent]

where

in guide?

didn't I list both?

[thin stone]

yes

[tall torrent]

what is ur question then

I listed both

[tall torrent]

this is just a sample build

[thin stone]

Oh

[tall torrent]

sunder better vs maulers
BM better vs horde

[agile yew]

I just crafted one lastnight just for the event, RPG clears even better

[somber axle]

Yeah I did a few runs with a Boltpistol Lethal Proximity rocket launcher and it really empties rooms LOL

[agile yew]

Grabbed one video too, though in it you see the struggle when you wasted your RPGs before shit hit the fan

https://youtu.be/tZuR3ldIow4

[errant bear]

Bolter is just shit against armor

😅

[dry cloak]

Bolter is good into armour

[errant bear]

It's just better than auto guns it still takes relatively long time and big ammo investment to kill a crusher with it

[tropic halo]

carapace*

[formal ice]

Aim for the head and don't stop shooting

[dry cloak]

Bolt pistol is arguable even better into armour

With surgical and deadly accurate

[errant bear]

I think you are still better off whipping off your melee and killing it with it than with bolter imo

[formal ice]

Depends on many factors

It's not awalys going to be the same situation which you can solo crushers with a melee

Depending on the melee also

[distant mural]

Use ze krak

Is good

[turbid ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/floreyonce-peter-griffin-brian-griffin-family-guy-gif-15968016242340041169

[distant mural]

Not that krak

[fickle narwhal]

can someone suggest me a nice build to play with infiltration to get that 750 enemies killed penance

i want that chest

[sly orchid]

isnt it 750 enemies surpressed?

pop infiltrate hit shooter cluster and youll get it soon

[fickle narwhal]

this one

[drowsy basalt]

hayo, use stealth to make objective and revive your downed teammates

• krak

for big ennemy

[fickle narwhal]

i see thanks for the advices

[drowsy basalt]

wait imma send you my build screen shot if you want

[fickle narwhal]

sure!

[drowsy basalt]

its level 29 but its an new account, i had all characters on xbox gamepass but i wont pay for it anymore 😄

[fickle narwhal]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0a81b83-c1bf-4995-ba03-0e528648ce60/vet-scout

i was looking at this one

[sly orchid]

Suppress 750 enemies using Infiltrate.

the translation is wrong

it isnt kills

[fickle narwhal]

oh cool then i will go with recon laser or bolter since those are the fastest way right?

[sly orchid]

nah

[drowsy basalt]

cant send SC

[sly orchid]

you pop infiltrate and then melee a shooter cluster for the max surpression you can deal

[drowsy basalt]

for weapon i use vraks mk2 with stealth

with dum-dum

[steep flower]

Could be better

[flint iris]

im running this event on damnation fuck this event btw

[turbid ibex]

Build has some pretty major issues

[dry cloak]

Talk a bit nore until your name is orange/red

[fickle narwhal]

to be honest i don't even care i just want that penance as fast as i can what would you change?

[turbid ibex]

Lacerate is a shit blessing

[fickle narwhal]

yeah probably will swap for the back stab

[turbid ibex]

flesh tearer is much better if you want bleed on your knife

[turbid ibex]

at the very least take skirmisher, exploit weakness and survivalist

but tbh if you want a decent infiltrate build you should prob just take the bomber build in the pinned guide

[fickle narwhal]

Thanks i will take a look for that bomber build

ughhhh

i hate those weapons

[hollow ibex]

Soooo

I guess we’re getting fallout

[tame lodge]

You see
It's an open map

So

Sniper weaponry confirmed next

[dry cloak]

The tide was indeed dark

[hollow ibex]

I guess chaos wastes fallout

[pseudo fiber]

New cosmetics plus pennance track extention too

[somber axle]

One of the comments described the open world as Helldivers 2 and the option to extract when you're ready to go has that vibe but who knows

Explore and collect tech remnants while worrying about patrols with monstrosities

[red cobalt]

Hivescum boom bringer makes it way less painful

[red cobalt]

Unless you’re purg staff uncanny psyker

[turbid ibex]

in which case you'd use flesh tearer over lacerate

[red cobalt]

Hell naw

[turbid ibex]

fym

[red cobalt]

Combat blade special > attack for bosses

Punch body for bleed attack head for uncanny

Everything burns and boss bleeds too

Ragh

[turbid ibex]

or you can just get crits

[red cobalt]

Its less consistent

I thought your way too

You get to keep bosses/whatever bog thing you’re attacking at a yummy 16 stacks until they die

And you dont need the knife for anything else other than move speed because you’re playing the most braindead OP build in the game

I love talking about psyker in the vet channel!!! :D

[tame lodge]

Just spam push attack at head level

You're doing too much just to be outperformed by pa spam

[red cobalt]

That doesn’t get bleed and then you run out of stam so it doesnt even let you attack anymore

[tame lodge]

You're a psyker

Literally top 3 pa spammer

[red cobalt]

You do you twin

[tame lodge]

That's a fact

Top 3 pa spammer

https://tenor.com/view/shank-gif-15607549

[red cobalt]

I know i wasnt disputing that

I cant react to anything but you’d get a gem on that gif

💎

[tame lodge]

Average knife gameplay

[lusty ledge]

Is deadshot a good skill to grab for plasma and infinite recon lasgun?

I notice the stamina drain doesn’t happen when aiming with the plasma gun

[turbid ibex]

deadshot does nothing with plasma

and recon drains stamina way too quickly

[last marten]

zealot reject killing dreg

[lusty ledge]

Ah gotcha. Thanks for telling me vro 💪

[willow prairie]

deadshot is genuinely so ass

[hollow ibex]

It’s good on some builds but definitely a very niche talent

[turbid ibex]

what builds is it even good for

[willow prairie]

none

bait used to be believable

shit fuck over your melee so bad

it need to get buffed imo

[tame lodge]

Scabs Mk10 laspistol

(still not sold on it)

[turbid ibex]

or deleted

legit just straight up delete some of the nodes at the bottom of the trees to make each path shorter

[lusty ledge]

Anyone have a infinite las gun build that they don’t mind sharing? Mine’s no keystone

[turbid ibex]

keystoneless vet in the big 26

[lusty ledge]

Yeah I havent touched vet in awhile, just realized I had no keystone for it

No wonder im not pumping out much damage

[turbid ibex]

what are you running

[pseudo fiber]

When can we get veteran fatmangus

[lusty ledge]

Voice of command, Krak nade and Rec lasgun MKXIV with tac axe

[turbid ibex]

what about the rest of the build

[hollow ibex]

Some CS builds and Mk XIV recon las

[lusty ledge]

Oh skills? I have to take screenshots hol on

[turbid ibex]

also weapon blessings

[lusty ledge]

On my tac axe

I have Shred MK4
And mk4 brutal momentum

Rec Lasgun has mk4 Infernus and Dumdum

I fucked myself over now that I look at the build..

What the fuck was I thinking

Please help me bro 💔💔

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/what-the-fuck-was-i-even-thinking-spaghetti-pool-water-gif-534004118832831510

[lusty ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/true-truth-nuke-fleshpound-killing-floor-foster-gif-10267939350897133775

[tame lodge]

I mean

It's a pretty solid build all things considered

[lusty ledge]

But no keystone is what bothers the hell outta me

Im most likely losing out on bigger damage

[tame lodge]

Well if you drop Volley Adept you can get Weapon Specialist

[turbid ibex]

could also drop some of the toughness talents from the top

[tame lodge]

Since it's recon the finesse bonuses of Marksman Focus wouldn't do much

[turbid ibex]

taking all 3 is overkill

[tame lodge]

If you dropped Volley Adept, Out for blood and Superiority you could get Focus Target

[lusty ledge]

Gotcha

Drop out for blood, marks focus and superiority

[turbid ibex]

i wouldnt drop superiority tbh

[lusty ledge]

What about Mark’s focus instead of focus target?

[turbid ibex]

left keystone is pretty mid for recon

recon has pretty bad finesse so it doesnt scale that well with mmf

[thorn lark]

yeah, that's way better

[lusty ledge]

Gotcha

It sucks too cuz of that infinite ammo for las on the left side

If anything I might drop rec lasgun and use the pistol instead. Feels more smooth to use

Wouldn’t it benefit it better too if I used the pistol instead?

Less conflicting skill tree paths and more benefits to crit/finesse?

[thorn lark]

laspistol or revolver?

also you're mission on +25 tg at least

serrated blade is a wasted point if you're not going after some synergy like shovel with uncanny

you could even not take the attack speed, the taxe can be use without it

[lusty ledge]

Las pistol, sorry I forgot to mention

[tall torrent]

works well with all keystones on vet

[lusty ledge]

Gotcha

Bleed dmg on tac axe especially the faster attack speed sounds pretty inconsequential

[limpid veldt]

hello, does anyone know what is the best stats for plasma gun?

[turbid ibex]

69% thermal, 71% charged

Rest at 80

Thermal dump stat still works tho

[silver patrol]

or charged dump

[limpid veldt]

what i have now is 90 dmg, powm ammo and 76 thermal, 65 charge rate

80

[silver patrol]

that's fine

[limpid veldt]

Thanks!

[silver patrol]

71% charged is theoretically the best, but there is barely any difference compared to 60% charge

[pseudo fiber]

mf got hte 90 damage

[tall torrent]

we hitting extra breakpoints with this

[sand anchor]

Anyone have some advice for a guy trying to run a recon lasgun build on high difficulty? I want to sue vet more but I don’t think I’m doing much for my team with my current stat line up

[hollow ibex]

The number one tip is to use your melee more as well

[tame lodge]

Use your melee more 🗣️

[hollow ibex]

Recon is a simple and easy gun but has a low skill ceiling

[tame lodge]

Also try shooting enemies that aren't going to be killed by your team in the next 2 or 3 seconds

[sand anchor]

Kind of why I like it 👀

[tame lodge]

Also don't shoot bruisers

[silver patrol]

knockoff desperado hivescum

[sand anchor]

So focus on the ranged losers like gunners, and autogun grunts?

[silver patrol]

use your gun for mostly specialists and elites

[sand anchor]

In that case should I switch from a recon? Or will it get the job done all the same

[turbid ibex]

melee grunts and hordes

and carapace

[tame lodge]

Recon is fine

[tall torrent]

recon is fine it's just the most boring gun in the game

[tame lodge]

It's not 1 shot specialist and elites fine but it's fine

[sand anchor]

I’m running a Cadian look so I’m kind of shooting myself in the foot with what fits thematically and what doesn’t

[turbid ibex]

helbore

laspistol

[sand anchor]

I have two vets. One is a Vostroyan with a helbore, and the other is a Cadian with recon.

Both use one handed chain swords

[tall torrent]

one day FS will make chain weapons good

maybe even before 2030

[sand anchor]

Hey man

I’ll continue to use them

Haha chainsword go VRRRRR

[tame lodge]

It does go vroom

[amber vortex]

What do you mean?

We all know CHAINSWORDS are the best

Best weapon in the game

100 years of CHAINSWORD

[tall torrent]

they're pretty meh

[flint iris]

chax is astounding

i think the only thing that lets chainswords down is all their movesets feel aweful

[amber vortex]

Nah

They're the meta

Above the meta

[tall torrent]

in another lifetime maybe yea

[amber vortex]

Super-duper meta

[turbid ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[amber vortex]

Fat shark really should just get rid of every weapon that isn't the CHAINSWORD

Its just that good

[flint iris]

Its insane how much that icon dates/ages you Krief_Hater 😂

I remember drawing that thing in 2005 in highschool

[amber vortex]

TRRRROOOGDOOOOR

[tall torrent]

that's prob the only way to make chainsword the best weapon

[amber vortex]

It already is, simple as

[hallow cove]

Hey what's the deal with the helbore, I find myself generally unable to use it because everything I go to shoot dies before it charges

[serene bough]

Clearly we need a weapon that shoots chainswords

[flint iris]

What difficulty are you playing on

[hallow cove]

Auric

[flint iris]

Outrange your teammates

[amber vortex]

Helbore is for krieg nerds

[tame lodge]

Infinite ammo 1 shot everything
Except bosses, those are 3-4 shots

[flint iris]

its literally the range gun

[hallow cove]

So just ignore the elites on top of us?

[fair shale]

Use your melee

[amber vortex]

Nah, that's the CHAINSWORD

[flint iris]

you can also just hellbore the elites ontop of you, its very easy to dodge around headshotting its what I do

surgical / armorbane is what i run personally

people dont like armorbane tho

so its your choice

[tame lodge]

If there's elites on top of you
You're not playing Helbore right
Or
The team doesn't have your back

[flint iris]

i keep meaning to do a "What 1000 hours of hellbore veteran" looks like video cause I wanna show off my skill with it

theres some sick stuff i end up doing

[tame lodge]

As a Helbore user you're a dedicated marksman
Kill the elites and specialists before they become a problem

[hallow cove]

The problem isn't dodging or whatever, its by the time i finish charging the thing the rager or whatever is dead

[flint iris]

it really isnt that slow lol

[thorn lark]

crushers are not one shot AFAIK

[flint iris]

they're 2/3 shot

[thorn lark]

yeah

[flint iris]

but even so its quick

it oneshots reapers/1/2 shots bulwarks

[hallow cove]

its literally the only gun I don't "get" on vet

I know its good

[flint iris]

show me your hellbore please

[hallow cove]

sure after this mission

[tame lodge]

Well if charge is the problem

Make sure you have weight of fire blessing

Could also run mk5

Which is the fastest to charge

Pair those two and you just have a better infantry lasgun

[hallow cove]

maybe the blessing is the key

I have trash blessings

[tame lodge]

Give it a try 🫡

Hope you get some good teammates as well

Nah fuck that

Trial by fire

[hallow cove]

lmao, I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed for this cause it's not maxed out

[tame lodge]

I will flame you for running Armourbane

Shame

Anyways

That's mk4

[hallow cove]

It was a random roll

[tame lodge]

Slowest Charge

Highest damage

[hallow cove]

oh god really

[tame lodge]

Yeah

It's the hardest hitting ranged weapon in the game

But it's the slower to charge

[hallow cove]

I'll go check out the others mks in meat grinder, i didn't know they were so different

[tame lodge]

Oh yeah

Check the special attack as well

[flint iris]

https://www.twitch.tv/wsymbol/clip/FitTalentedDeerTBTacoRight-uVtIezZ52hB7M5tr

i could find better clips but i cba to scan through all my content

[hallow cove]

maybe its just a lot better when its fully upgraded, what's the charge time on the 4 at 80?, mine is 69/80 and its .66 sec

[flint iris]

what i was just using in that video

[tall torrent]

it's only worth for IIIa for shooting crusher

[prime wyvern]

do u think spidey sense is cheese

[tall torrent]

yea, why

[prime wyvern]

I was thinking of trying it for silent bursters

but idk if its basically cheating or not

[tall torrent]

well

[hollow ibex]

Yes but I give no fucks

[tall torrent]

it's up to u rly

[flint iris]

I like having my boss damage go through the ceiling, feels like it adds something to the weapon, theres not really that many other good blessings to choose from

[hollow ibex]

It’s not like cues in the game work as intended anyway

[flint iris]

falter isnt needed, flame damage is useless, the cleave I sometimes do use cause the cleave is nice to get to the sniper behind the horde

[tall torrent]

helbore has 176.04% unyielding ADM on charged shots

brittleness doesn't matter for it

[tame lodge]

Based

[flint iris]

so brittleness isnt adding any extra damage on the boss for me?

Because its simply capped at 176%

?

Not being sarcastic or cheeky here, im aware fatshark devs having random ass math

[hollow ibex]

It does

But above 100 percent adm

Your increased adm converts to bonus damage at a 4:1 ratio

Which really sucks

Not nothing but very inefficient

[flint iris]

and with how shit the blessing pool is anyway is really that bad

what are you actually taking instead?

[hollow ibex]

Weight of fire usually

[flint iris]

https://streamable.com/cbjfq0

idk if ive been playing too long with the hellbore

but this has never felt slow to me to begin with

i do havocs and aurics btw this isnt heresy brain

[tall torrent]

yea it is bad lol

[hollow ibex]

You’ll feel it in a live match

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1395862442566877266/23CFFD1.MP4?ex=68f2a4b4&is=68f15334&hm=baa069daa8e885a7b2ebc34633c35700fcb792fcd59c1174403d11c19beeb2c5&

[flint iris]

not just disagreeing with you to be annoying but i actually feel it less in a match cause im not even paying attention to it cause im too focused on what im doing subcontiously

[hallow cove]

Maybe I'm using it wrong to begin with, I was trying to use it with exe stance and extend it out by killing lots of little guys

[flint iris]

ah I used to use the little guy node, I was so fucking foolish

they should put the ogryn node in big bold letters the important text at the very bottom

TIME IS NOW 8SECONDS

it completely makes the other one useless imo

[hollow ibex]

Yeah it got uber buffed

[hallow cove]

Sorry I do take that node, I meant my strategy was to pop gunners to refresh my timer and keep it rolling non stop, I see pretty much all of the clips have been focused on the beefier elites

[flint iris]

if you take ogryn node and focus on elites specials, in aurics and havocs atleast it'll never be down anyway cause they spam all that at your team all the time

[tall torrent]

stance is better with ogryn node

[hallow cove]

I never do havoc, but I almost exclusively run quick match auric

[hollow ibex]

I play a lot of sedation and it sucks!

[flint iris]

dont take the node that highlights it for your teammates tho, I used to take it cause I felt like it was nice to do for the team.

But you really need those sneaky peeks just for you so you can keep up your buffs

[flint iris]

im gonna be brave btw if you need a build to look at and show you mine

much to the disgrace and embaressment of vet chat that will scream

[tall torrent]

missing a lot of dmg

[hallow cove]

looks similar to mine, i know i take the node right below the ogryn highlight node and you take the one in the middle there

can't remember what mine does

[flint iris]

deadshot is nice if you can cope with it

i dont like my stamina draining like that

[tall torrent]

u can also check pinned guide, I have a sniper build listed

vet tree unfortunately not rly flexible

[flint iris]

ngl that guide is horribly bloated if its the top pinned one lol

[tall torrent]

it is

[flint iris]

i dont think its a fault of guide creator, perhaps steams UI

[tall torrent]

u can just use

the navigation panel on the right

[flint iris]

here you go

[slow sky]

No tunnel vision is crazy

[unreal totem]

man shock maul is so cool

tell me it gets better

[flint iris]

i used to have it on this build switched it out this morning cause i just needed more nades for this event

[flint iris]

shock maul are technically warp attacks for some reason so it plays really well with psyker for some raisin

[tall torrent]

they aren't tho?

[unreal totem]

wat

I really like impact weapons

but maybe its because mine it not fulled upgraded but is it taking so long to kill ogryns

[amber vortex]

Know what really gets better?

CHHHHAAAAIIINNNNSWORD

[flint iris]

#zealot-class message

[tall torrent]

oh cool

[flint iris]

you're welcome that took me ages to fucking find

i almost thought i was hallucinating again

[hallow cove]

I think focusing on the tougher farther out targets and not worrying so much about dropping exe stance really helped

[flint iris]

🙂 glad we helped somewhat

Dont forget to use the bayonette to take out pesky stragglers (cause I always do)

[hallow cove]

ya really enjoying one tapping the reapers with there being so may from the event

[flint iris]

repear deleting feels so good

getting the small slim bit of forehead that pokes above the bulwark shield should be your next dopamine goal

[unreal totem]

is there a melee focused build for vet?

[tall torrent]

yea, check pinned guide

[somber axle]

Weird question but like do you think the expedition meta will change up Vet talent tree standards at all

They mentioned it being a goal of getting people to change their builds for that and the wide open long range encounters but like is Vet really going to change their tree much

[hybrid plover]

It's probably gonna make MMF way more viable

Lasguns are also gonna be better

[somber axle]

Yeah but is anyone going to change their Lasgun build at all

If you already run Exe Stance MMF Helbore for other content how would the talent tree shift at all

[tall torrent]

noe

u would just

[somber axle]

You kinda just want the same stuff

[tall torrent]

bring a longer range gun

which already was good on vet

because all the good guns on vet (except DB, recon & laspistol) do long range well

[somber axle]

If encounters are going to be open and long range I could maybe imagine some other classes changing things but Vet feels like it sorta just wants to stay what it is

[tall torrent]

doubt other classes will change much either

[somber axle]

I was thinking maybe more Arbites using shield+maul over ASM to close the gap safely but then you could probably just dodge slide at enemy lines instead

Maybe they might get more people to run smokes on Vet

Ogryn packmaster ignores stealth but hounds are still confused by players in smoke right?

Does the smoke count as "stealth"

If not smoke will probably mean everyone slams the Packmaster in the smoke while the hounds run in circles wondering what's going on

[tame lodge]

You count as 'concealed'

So unless the game considers that stealth

Nothing will change

[tall torrent]

nah smokes need smth extra still

[tall torrent]

noe

[south spindle]

Kinda all depends on the amount of cover present for more melee orientated classes to push

Vet will be mostly fine with some builds, but yeah, other classes are gonna be much more dependent on the layout of areas

I'm concerned though that if there isnt a whole lot of cover, bubblebitch psykers are gonna be getting even more play than they already do and man that ish is played out

[warm swallow]

What blessings do you want on helbor?

[turbid ibex]

Surgical weight of fire

[mystic pilot]

so saw the news

[warm swallow]

So cute thank you

[mystic pilot]

does that mean longlas is coming

and Helbore more useful even more?

[turbid ibex]

The one im most concerned about is ogryn tbh

[turbid ibex]

No?

[warm swallow]

Wait actually?

[mystic pilot]

open map

[warm swallow]

I just got a bit bored of revolver

[mystic pilot]

more enemy sniping at range

[warm swallow]

Oh you are so right

[turbid ibex]

Helbore is really strong

[south spindle]

Yeah, you're not wrong tbh. Ogryn is gonna have it rough in his current state. Gonna need to glue himself to the Psyker. I feel like Vet and Scum are gonna be the ones that get off lightest

[warm swallow]

Waow

[mystic pilot]

Heblore IS the marksman/sniper rifle in our arsenal we have

[south spindle]

Zealot is a bit of an unknown quantity tho

[warm swallow]

Ive been using revolver since

Forever

[mystic pilot]

only downside is iron sights

at least you have mods to add scopes to helbore lasgun

[south spindle]

Arb probably isnt gonna care much because Arb doing shield things ofc

[turbid ibex]

Also dog helps kill faraway shooters

[mystic pilot]

yeah but it does take time for the dog to get there

[south spindle]

Yeah true, at least if you run the dog

[mystic pilot]

and they have to kill one at a time

[turbid ibex]

Not running weapon specialist on revolver is def a choice

[warm swallow]

Someone else also said that

[tall torrent]

og chat will complain a lot

[south spindle]

When is Ogg chat not complaining

[turbid ibex]

Ogryn and arbites are prob going to be the ones that suffer the most depending on how far away the enemies can shoot you from

Prob zealot too

Though zealot at least gets bistol for ranged stagger

[warm swallow]

does mark on the helbore matter?

or is it just preference

[south spindle]

Zealot can cover ground pretty quickly, an Arb can shoot back from a sheilded stance, Ogg is gonna have to rely soley on shield if the ranges are long an the cover is sparse

I will say, Momentum Zealot might be really good in this

[tame lodge]

Just preference

[warm swallow]

hi higui

hows it hanging

[tame lodge]

My favorite is Mk4 because hardest hitting ranged weapon in the game

Why are you out of Zealot chat

[warm swallow]

cuz i need actual ingame help

i have an image to uphold in zel chat

[somber axle]

I was just imagining if the new armoured pox hounds have Carapace armour at all it might get a few Vets to try smokes but you're probably right and it'll probably just be Flak armour anyway

[mystic pilot]

they'll be slower than pox hounds at least....

not that they would be still faster than us

[turbid ibex]

Also apparently you can straight up just block their pounce

[somber axle]

The open areas and long range encounters seem to suggest limited cover so maybe we'll see a return of the scared Shieldgryn hitting shield special and refusing to move until a hound pounces them

[turbid ibex]

No push required

At least according to the blog post

[mystic pilot]

and you have to keep moving

you can't stay out there too long

[somber axle]

Throwback to that time they buffed shooter and gunner accuracy

Suddenly everyone was getting shredded LOL

I wish they'd bring it back

[tame lodge]

If only there was a mechanic to make enemies stop shooting

cough suppression cough

But alas

coughing fit

dies of coffee

[somber axle]

Expeditions are the main reason I'm excited for Longlas because that weapon is a terrible idea for current game design but would really shine if wide open long range encounters are the flavour for Expeditions

[south spindle]

Lmfao, true and real tbh

Those times were wild

A true trip down memery lane

[somber axle]

I vaguely remember someone checking that Vet suppression talent and seeing how much stronger it was for Plasma instantly turning an entire firing line of gunners, shooters and reapers into cowering babies but I don't think Expeditions will really push anyone to take that talent

[tame lodge]

You don't have to

[warm swallow]

chat is stealth helbore viable?

[tame lodge]

Plasma is already good at suppression on kill
Or the charged explosion but no one charges it

Bolt weapons are good at suppression

Accatran shotgun is good

[warm swallow]

or is helbor better with volly

[tame lodge]

Agripina is good on kill

Shredder Auto is good

Braced Auto is good

[somber axle]

Yes but be careful because if you go Low Profile you're shifting aggro onto the rest of the team and if your quickplay group is struggling you may be the straw that breaks their back

[turbid ibex]

Viable? Maybe
A good idea? No

[warm swallow]

damn

ok

[somber axle]

Hunter's Resolve is better for easing the heat without making it worse for your team

Exe Stance and VoC are both just a lot more useful

[turbid ibex]

Helbore really doesnt gain much at all from stealth

[somber axle]

But Exe Stance was also really struggling for the longest time and then they buffed it into being a very strong option competitive with VoC so maybe Infiltrate will get some more love eventually

[warm swallow]

i see i see

[turbid ibex]

Hopefully yeah

[warm swallow]

after i cook dont hate too hard im kinda dumb with build crafting

[somber axle]

They already made one of the old Infiltrate nodes free and standard to Infiltrate so they've seen how bad the old talent tax was

The 30% damage buff on Infiltrate probably needs a longer duration at bare minimum

[turbid ibex]

100%

Also a shorter cooldown and making the move speed buff linger for the same duration as the damage buff

[somber axle]

Btw Exe Stance Marksman's Focus Helbore Mk IV is wonderful for the Rumbling Giants event. You 1 shot Reapers and Bulwarks on headshot and can 2 shot Crushers on headshot too

[turbid ibex]

What the fuck is that middle section

[warm swallow]

idk man

i lowkey clicked things

[turbid ibex]

Why the fuck did you take the ranged backstab and opening salvo

Those talents are abysmal dogshit

[warm swallow]

oh damn

:9

;(

:(

there we go

[turbid ibex]

Dont take deadshot either nor killzone

[somber axle]

I really wouldn't recommend Deadshot without Duck and Dive or Tunnel Vision because you will inevitably drain your stamina to 0 and then have nothing for blocks/pushes when you swap melee to fight or push hounds/poxbursters

[turbid ibex]

Or whatever the one next to shock trooper is called

[somber axle]

And tbh most people wouldn't take Deadshot at all

[warm swallow]

kill zone yeah

i see i see

[turbid ibex]

Also youre missing stuff like skirmisher and exploit weakness

As well as the ogryn damage talent

[south spindle]

Deadshot is something I would basically only take on Hellbore or Boltgun tbh

[somber axle]

Deadshot is fun but you really need some sort of stamina gain to offset it and the two points are probably better spent elsewhere considering you have Recip and Surgical giving you almost guaranteed crits on every shot

[warm swallow]

im using helbore

[warm swallow]

the bigger they are? or is there a different one i just didnt see

[turbid ibex]

That one

[south spindle]

Well as Cat says above, take something to offset the stam loss unless you're really fuckin competant at managing it

[turbid ibex]

Plus you also get a toughness boost on the path there

[warm swallow]

so instead of the ranged highlight one take ogryn one?

[somber axle]

Opening Salvo, Deadshot and Recip at max stacks is like what 10% + 25% + 25% and Surgical is +10% for every 0.3 seconds aiming

[turbid ibex]

Pretty much every build i can think of absolutely wants to get at least both bigger they are as well as skirmisher

[turbid ibex]

You swap that one for the ogryn highlight

[south spindle]

I must admit, despite knowing how good it is, i very rarely take Skirmisher

[turbid ibex]

So you also get 8s stance duration

[errant bear]

What about this? Guerrilla Tactics
Cooldown: 60s

Replenish all Toughness and enter Stealth for 8s, gaining +25% Movement Speed. Gain +30% Damage during Stealth and for 5s after. Attacking ends Stealth.

Elite and Specialist kills reduce cooldown by 0.25s, to a minimum of 30s. Such kills grant 1s of Stealth, up to 8s total, and may Suppress nearby Enemies. After Stealth ends, they instead extend the post-Stealth duration by 0.5s, up to 8s total.

[turbid ibex]

You are missing out on a good chunk of damage then

[somber axle]

You could probably just ditch Opening Salvo and Deadshot, or at least swap Opening Salvo to Duck and Dive or Tunnel Vision

[south spindle]

I know, but its just not always avaliable for getting

[turbid ibex]

Ditch opening salvo, ranged backstab, killzone, deadshot, serrated blade

[warm swallow]

ive changed it around to look like this at the end

still have 1 unspent

[somber axle]

Tbh idk much about balance and I try not to get too into the weeds of it and leave it to devs and more informed players but I did like the idea someone mentioned before of stun immunity baked into the kit as a buff post-stealth

[turbid ibex]

I think that was path

[warm swallow]

i lied i have 2 unspent

[somber axle]

He had other solid ideas but I'm not a dev or anything so I can only say what felt like a good step

[warm swallow]

forgot to take off serrated

[turbid ibex]

The main things i really want for stealth are longer damage buff duration, lingering speed buff for the same duration, shorter cooldown

[somber axle]

That's much better

[turbid ibex]

The stun immunity would also be nice tho

[turbid ibex]

Use those points for getting bigger they are

[errant bear]

Stun immunity would have been fine but tbh almost imperceptible the amount of times I am stunned in this game is so little

[warm swallow]

+2 unspent

[errant bear]

Fire team is pretty neat in high difficulties

[turbid ibex]

Fire team?

[warm swallow]

fire team?

[warm swallow]

wait lowkey i might have gotten confused

[somber axle]

It feels like Infiltrate has an identity crisis as a Vet ability tbh. Exe Stance is the offensive focused option, Voice of Command is the team support/defense option. Infiltrate is kinda trying to be damage and mobility and utility and defense and it just isn't any of those things in any meaningful way other than hiding to play with the objective and memes of Tinkerer Infiltrate Focus Target Krak hitting a little harder

[warm swallow]

or the volly fire one

[turbid ibex]

This one

And the exestance ogryn node as well

[somber axle]

They need to pick what they want Infiltrate to do and specialize it so it has a niche because right now it is the jack of all trades but nobody wants jack

[warm swallow]

what perk should i take that leads to it

[turbid ibex]

Toughness

[warm swallow]

ok

[turbid ibex]

Not really?

[warm swallow]

swag

thanks chat

[turbid ibex]

They just need to make the stuff that is already there better

[errant bear]

This thing - it messes up with your base damage modifier which is really good because all other bonuses are counted after

[somber axle]

It feels like they really don't know what to do with it so they make it do everything they can think of

[turbid ibex]

Again shorter cooldown, longer duration for damage buff and lingering speed buff

[errant bear]

You just need high enemy density for it to be active most of the time

[turbid ibex]

Idk which one is that but considering i completely forgot about it you are probably overestimating it

[somber axle]

It gives movement speed, damage buff, suppression + stagger and can talent into tdr and/or lower threat. It can do a lot of things but is still too weak

It does a lot and also too little

[warm swallow]

this the helbore drip

[turbid ibex]

Yeah part of that is the extremely long cooldown and short duration of the buffs

[errant bear]

The change I proposed would allow more melee style combat with vet since he wouldn't need to get kill confirmed stacks from ranged first before jumping into melee but simply pick them up at place and keep killing after stealth refreshments are over

[turbid ibex]

Which make it have shit uptime

Shorter cooldown+longer buff duration would already fix that issue

[somber axle]

The CD is probably so long because the previous iteration of Tactical Awareness meant potentially infinite uptime when you were killing specials back to back

When people could spam VoC and have full uptime on gold toughness

They nerfed Tactical Awareness and it was a good move but Infiltrate is still way behind

They need to do another balance pass on Infiltrate

[turbid ibex]

Also tbh i feel like your rework idea is way too overcomplicated while not really fixing the issue

[somber axle]

And Vet does special/elite killing very well so you could always bet on that CD being gone FAST with old Tactical Awareness

[errant bear]

The current ability allows you to kill one special which just isn't enough to keep you up in battle safely even with decent play

[errant bear]

What do you see as an issue?

[turbid ibex]

Shit uptime mostly

Like that is really the biggest problem with infiltrate

[somber axle]

I kinda worry about them reducing CD too much because then you just have Vets popping in and out of combat rapid-fire. Increasing buff duration alone would probably be fine and if they do both I hope they don't go too far reducing the CD given Tactical Awareness is an auto grab for every Vet tree

[errant bear]

Did you read it then?

[turbid ibex]

5 second damage buff on a 45 seconds cooldown

[turbid ibex]

5 second damage buff on a 60 second cooldown that you can lower by a bit with elite and specialist kills

[errant bear]

I think I addressed it with stealth duration and uptime after - in a real match it would be like 11-12 seconds

[turbid ibex]

Tbh i still dont think i fully understand what it does

[errant bear]

Give or take depending on how fast would people spill over stealth threshold

[errant bear]

You have base uptime and then you have thresholds right

Base uptime is indeed 5 seconds so popping it on one special is probably not the greatest idea but if you see many of them you can replenish this uptime and get stealth in and out of combats which allows for repositioning

[turbid ibex]

But doesnt attacking break stealth?

[errant bear]

It does

[tall torrent]

stun occurs any time u get hit by melee atk, unless blocked

[turbid ibex]

So how are you staying stealthed?

[errant bear]

That's why the stealth gets 1 sec uptime after every kill

[turbid ibex]

Ehhh idk about that

[tall torrent]

vet already has a "extend duration on kill" ability, infil doesn't need to be the same

and long duration stealth is just gamebreaking

[errant bear]

I only really feel it against a pack of ragers sometimes

[errant bear]

It wouldn't be long

[turbid ibex]

Like this really seems like a overcomplicated rework when just tweaking the duration and cooldown numbers could achieve the same thing while being way simpler to understand

[errant bear]

Keeping it the same way as it's doesn't open up any new play style

[tall torrent]

16s stealth is crazy

[errant bear]

8 seconds continuos as now the rest would be capped at 1 second so players cannot abuse it for running but for actually fighting guerilla style combat

[turbid ibex]

It does because then you'd have people actually using infiltrate for stuff other than bomber builds

[errant bear]

Like what? It's still better to just take exe for ranged and safer to shout

[orchid hemlock]

Stealth has 3 main uses:

Position for boss damage
Do objective
Pick people up

[south spindle]

Might well be better in operations tho

[errant bear]

The problem with vet is that it needs kill confirmed stacks so chip damage isn't a big deal and the safe way to get them is to just shoot the bad guys it would be nice if he could get them by stabbing instead without it feeling like throwing

[south spindle]

Big open areas, a time limit, stuff you need to grab, yeah I can see Infiltrate being a lot better in that mode given you will not only have more room to manuver, but probably more requirement to reposition in a timely manner whilst not getting bogged down

It sounds like its not "just run to the nearest choke" like many of the normal missions are

[tall torrent]

dropping aggro for 1s on repeat just isn't a good idea

[tall torrent]

infil needs to be the dmg pick

[errant bear]

You already have dmg pick tho

[tall torrent]

stance actually sorta isn't a dps pick in my eyes
if red nodes could refresh alongside stance, it'd be a dps pick, but they currently don't

[errant bear]

😅

[tall torrent]

stance isn't rly one

[errant bear]

I think it does more than infiltrate

[tall torrent]

stance's dmg is secondary to the ability's core functions

the core function is not dmg

[south spindle]

All infil really needs to become the damage pick is the damage subnode being activated on using the ult, last the whole duration and allow you to commit any offensive action during the duration without breaking stealth

You could cause so much shit for the heretics if it worked like that

[hollow ibex]

infil also shouldn't have a 45s cd

[tall torrent]

nah it just needs more dmg, lasting longer

I posted my take on this months ago

#arbites-class message

[south spindle]

It would be a lot less interesting were it just press button and cancel as quickly as possible for damage boost

Might aswell just remove the stealth and have "damage +" button like Scum does at that point

[somber axle]

That'd be nice but they probably need to focus it better toward that if that's where they want to carve out the ability's niche

[tall torrent]

FS wants a stealth ult for vet, unfortunately

[somber axle]

As it stands it's never going to compete with Exe Stance

[hollow ibex]

FS wants a good stealth ult for vet. right? right??

[tall torrent]

it just needs to be higher burst & global dmg

[somber axle]

I feel like they could quietly remove Infiltrate and give Vet a new ability without more than a handful of people upset

But like what would they even replace it with if they did

[tall torrent]

give vet an ability to call in a deathstrike missile

(it's an actual imperial guard ability)

[somber axle]

That's a cool idea but we already get that vaguely with Expeditions

[south spindle]

Scum RPG 2.0

[somber axle]

They mentioned being able to call in an airstrike from Masozi

[tall torrent]

nah it's more than that

this is more like

press F to call in a tactical nuke

[hollow ibex]

oh good

[tall torrent]

and blow the entire map + 5 adjacent hab blocks up

[somber axle]

Plus how do you make it work for closed maps

[hollow ibex]

the powercreep we need to fix hiv rockets

[south spindle]

Right, so its Scum RPG 3.0

[somber axle]

Indoors and you called a missile through 10 hab block ceilings to your specific floor LOL

[tall torrent]

RPG vs deathstrike missile is coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb

[south spindle]

Completely missing the joke in regards to Scum's RPG being massively over-buffed huh?

[somber axle]

I think Hive Scum RPG is fine and the Rumbling Giants event is just fluffing up the class tbh

It has no inherent grenade regen

[south spindle]

Nah, its absurd under normal conditions too

[somber axle]

Blitz refresh just makes it look nicer

[hollow ibex]

HIV RPG got overbuffed

[south spindle]

Plus if your team knows you have it, they'll force-feed you grenade boxes

[hollow ibex]

it's definitely op

[south spindle]

Yeah

Extra charge or radius buff from what it was originally? Fine. Both? Not fine

[hollow ibex]

it also got its blitz count buffed

which is just fucking stupid

in an auric match, one well-timed nade pickup will let you trivialize basically any crusher wave

for the entire match

8 rockets

[south spindle]

As above, if it got the extra charge an no other changes, it would be fine for it to have, but getting the radius buff too just kinda broke it

One or the other would have been ok, both together is not

[tall torrent]

no, just that even with the giga op state it's in, it's nowhere close to a deathstrike missile

[warm swallow]

aight chat helbore feels yummers

wish i cared enought to mod better than irons bujt eh

[atomic void]

mod the fov at least

[south spindle]

Apparently the weapon customization mod has been resurrected, could just join the modding discord an chase that up

[atomic void]

hellbore with default fov is like holding a fkn rock in your face

[warm swallow]

im on max default fov

[somber axle]

Helbore feels amazing but yeah it's one of those weapons that feels like it needs the model change LOL

Either buying a new skin or modding sights

[atomic void]

weapon fov specifically

not affected by in-game fov

[tall torrent]

u can & should go higher

dt's base fov slider is quite limiting

85 max fov lol

[somber axle]

Oh I joined late so I didn't realise it got buffs. It sorta just feels like an Ogryn frag but yeah field improv feeding makes the extra charges feel strong. Idk if that's too much though because it sorta relies on a team mate and the group agreeing to feed them hits off an ammo kit

If you don't have a Vet with field improv rip

If your group doesn't want to feed an ammo kit to the RPG happy Hive Scum also rip

[turbid ibex]

Also one thing that indirectly buffs rocket is that there is very little competition for someone else to get blitz pickups

Vet already has insane blitz replenishment, zealots will pretty much always run throwing knives, psykers lmao and arbites that are running the non-dog blitzes are also probably using lone wolf

[south spindle]

Its an Ogryn bomb that actually screen-wipes instead of leaving stuff alive, it has multiple charges and even three rockets has an absurd capability to break out of bad situations. Its like Ogryn Nuke but better

[turbid ibex]

And then ogryn blitzes just dont really compare to scum's

[south spindle]

Like getting them back is a non issue, you wipe out one troublesome bulwark wall and your teammates, unless they're exceptionally stupid, are going to ping grenade boxes for you

[somber axle]

Isn't that ignoring the ammo side of the ammo kit because most of those classes minus staff Psyker probably want the ammo replenishment even if they don't care about the blitz

Consider how much ammo you are giving up for the team to give the Hive Scum more rockets