veteran-class

[tall torrent]

even if not at kuli lvl, at least 60~70% is not a hard ask

[mortal horizon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85I59dSLqhE
this kuli, right? is this his channel or nah

i know he does the guide

not sure if this is the same guy

[tall torrent]

this is him yea

anyone doing guide type content should be looking at his guide as standard

[mortal horizon]

ya his guide is the gold standard agreed

[tall torrent]

regi gets maybe 30% of the way there?

[mortal horizon]

his gameplay recordings are bit low fps/jittery tho, he should fix that xD

[tall torrent]

mine is maybe 75% of the way there because I skipped a lot of stuff

[mortal horizon]

the difference is i dont reallyt consider reginald a guide maker.
he's a good player who makes videos and puts out content. I dont think he's claiming his guides are mathematically sound, or 'the best' hes just a gamer who puts out stuff about what he does.

thats how i see it anyway. Someone writing a big guide, hoping to get it stickied and used by the community - i do think that is held to a higher standard of 'correct'

[void dragon]

yeah most of what Reginald does is more feeling than pure math

[tall torrent]

vibe based guide

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/925855860557746267/1148583910691836006/JMYS0W5RDOL7U41RPH.gif

[void dragon]

for ill or worse THAT is what players, specially new ones, will use as metric

[mortal horizon]

this is mostly how i play too, so im probably biased. I'll look for hard data if im curious or something isnt working, but if something 'feels' good and i do well with it, thats enough for me

[tall torrent]

and regi's spreadsheet is just lol

idk how he came up with those numbers

[mortal horizon]

one thing i will say, watching Kuli's gameplay, he doesn't impress me mechanically as much as some players, but obviously his knowledge is top tier.
Maybe its his playstyle, hes just naturally smooth and less 'twitchy' with his actions?
ofc hes very good, dont get me wrong

[void dragon]

its how EVERYONE plays at some degree and point, casuals will do a feeling test and will not delve into spreadsheets of 100% correct facts unless they feel the flow good

[torpid grotto]

He’s mostly right but the ek staff is way more op than people think it is

[void dragon]

also, why is rumbler that low?

[torpid grotto]

🤷‍♂️

[mortal horizon]

i didnt think his melee list was AS horribly incorrect as others here, it was a "meh, kinda close enough" for me
but there WERE some major outliers that made me go "ok, thats a wtf" lol

[tall torrent]

he put rumbler in 2nd tier

not low

I shud prob make a tier list

[void dragon]

he put the folding shovels in the same tier as the Branx pickaxe, it is THAT bad

[tall torrent]

lolol

[torpid grotto]

Ek staff is p much a straight upgrade from laspistol if you don’t need boss damage

[latent star]

Tier lists are the anti-guide.

[mortal horizon]

yes yes lol like i said, there are some major outliers.
but it kind of was like, generally correct at a glance, if you squint?
you know what im saying? he clearly plays the game and has an opinion

[south spindle]

I should make a tier list too, just to piss everyone off at once

[torpid grotto]

Tier lists are a bad way to view the game yeah

[mortal horizon]

ya, this too

theres more nuance than a tier list allows, imo

and a lot of skill expression

[void dragon]

glorious ragebait

[mortal horizon]

and a lot of build synergy

[tall torrent]

just make the tiers nuanced

[void dragon]

but EVERYONE loves them for some reason

[tall torrent]

I had this way back for early version of my guide

[latent star]

I think there is a sort of loose tier list in the sense of like "this weapon is pretty good no matter what" and "this weapon is probably bad no matter what" but those are pretty slim categories.

[mortal horizon]

woah, really? i run melee psyker with las pistol all the time and ek staff in my experience does not feel as good lol

[torpid grotto]

Are you doing surge nexus

And lmb spam

[south spindle]

Its jsut slop that will pull veiws on youtube, an there is at least one useful thing about them, they tend to get the meta picks int right places, so your average player laps them up

[mortal horizon]

oh, you mean the LMB. Ya EK staff has the best LMB, its solid true. just kinda boring imo

i was thinking of the alt fire

[torpid grotto]

Yea you just treat it like a laspistol and lmb spam and you get like 80 special kills per game

[south spindle]

Lul I started using that ages ago and people told me it wasnt worth it at the time

[narrow frost]

sal

I made a Illisi build

[south spindle]

Weird how stuff changes

[narrow frost]

you playing tonight?

[torpid grotto]

I be on around 5

[fair shale]

The secret is to listen to nobody and use whatever makes you happy

[narrow frost]

k

[south spindle]

Eh, stuff is either good, or its not good. Its not about feeling, its about knowing what is and isnt doing damage. Thats why we use the scoreboard mod

[mortal horizon]

ya, ive done it once or twice, and seen some good psykers utilizing it on melee builds.
i just kinda find it boring, las pistol is cooler xD

but ya, its solid

[fair shale]

I don't tbh

[torpid grotto]

It’s the same exact thing mechanically except blue instead of red xD

[fair shale]

Don't need to

[tall torrent]

controversy = money

[south spindle]

Blue instead of red, and sometimes shits out two shots instead of one

Well, quite often infact

[mortal horizon]

watching more of his gameplay, does anyone know what im talking about?
its like his style of play is very methodical/smooth almost slow - i tend to play more like a crack head (i like knife)
are his mechanics better than im givign him credit for?

[torpid grotto]

He’s playing with a very defensive team and taking advantage of it by playing slow

[mortal horizon]

true

[tall torrent]

smth smth 7k hours of modded VT2 does that to people
also a defensive team comp

[mortal horizon]

understand hes very good, and very knowledgeable

[mortal horizon]

ah, hes a vt2 player? makes sense honestly

i can see it in his habits haha

and the way he moves

i never got good at vt2, i capped out at regular cata and only played like 150 hours

[void dragon]

wow Kuli doesnt believe in true grid, thats neat i was right!

[mortal horizon]

woah, why not, isnt it like one of the most busted nodes ever lol
but its also a "you'll never need this if you play better" node so

[narrow frost]

slope moment

[mortal horizon]

bro, i hate that shit

was it the captain recovering and attacking

[narrow frost]

its the minor terrain things that suck

[mortal horizon]

or the shooters?

i cant tell

[narrow frost]

I back dodged into the slop and it removed my dodge

[fair shale]

So, hypothetically

Shouldn't you have just dodged left

[torpid grotto]

What the hell

[narrow frost]

yes but the poxwalkers might've been in my way

it would be more of a gamble

[mortal horizon]

i swear i die like this and dont always fully understand why.
I know minor changes in ground elevation make the game break tho. Especially on overheads.
So hitting the sloped walls like that will 'remove' your dodge mid dodge?

kinda bullshit lol

[narrow frost]

the dodge animation hitting anything stopping it before it fully completes stops it, plus any time in the air

[fair shale]

I guess, the wall was definitely in your way back dodging tho.

I love dodging over minor terrain bumps with scum and becoming a living target puck

[narrow frost]

if it was flat I would have more room and not get airtime

[mortal horizon]

then why am i still able to dodge bosses when pinned into a wall? bc its not sloped?

thought i frames on a dodge/dodge slide still lingered even if trapped

[narrow frost]

you probaby had a fast dodge speed weapon

no iframes in this game

[mortal horizon]

i AM a knife addict lol

[tall torrent]

it's not i-frame

[mortal horizon]

i thought there was a disjointing/iframe component to dodges, but damn guess i was totally wrong

[narrow frost]

long story short

[mortal horizon]

is it just the tracking of the attack is broken basically?

[narrow frost]

enemies dont track you

[tall torrent]

this game only has i-frame for 2 abilities

[mortal horizon]

gotcha

[tall torrent]

dodge is disabled enemy attack tracking

[fair shale]

Which abilities have true iframes?

[tall torrent]

if dodge had i-frames u'd be able to dodge ur way through fire and not get damaged

[fair shale]

And are one or both on psyker

[tall torrent]

FotF and BTL I think?

[fair shale]

Nah FoTF is one

Yeah

Didn't know BtL had them but it makes sense

[tall torrent]

not sure on BTL actually

[narrow frost]

its coded like immune to damage plus projectiles like nets

[fair shale]

They're both dashes of sorts

[narrow frost]

iirc

[mortal horizon]

ya true.
I kinda always knew it was "attack tracking disjointing" ive read it in the guides, i just kinda call it iframes bc im a laymen, but sorry ya, thats incorrect

[tall torrent]

I checked indomitable and it doesn't have dmg immune

just dodge state

[narrow frost]

hense why you can still take fire damage when rushing through ground fire

[torpid grotto]

If you dodge into a wall don’t you get the dodge linger still

[mortal horizon]

this is what i was wondering, ive dodged CS/PO many times pinned against a wall

[tall torrent]

"I studied the attack patterns of fire and gas particles and now I'm immune to tox bombs"

[torpid grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/touhou-player-rain-bullet-hell-avoid-gif-25730203

[narrow frost]

Holy based

the stagger stick

wait

its the flip one

would SC proc with the flip attack?

cause isnt sticky a hard stagger?

[mortal horizon]

while you were busy doing math....I WAS STUDYING THE TOX GAS

[torpid grotto]

Holy

Genius

[tall torrent]

sticky is weird

[tall torrent]

yes because the attack puts enemies into a stagger state

[narrow frost]

this vet might be cooking

holy

[tall torrent]

no lol check shovel attacks' ADMs

[mortal horizon]

https://klipy.com/gifs/no-nooo-70

[narrow frost]

the idea is there though

[tall torrent]

yea if shovel was actually good at stagger and had good ADMs it'd work

[mortal horizon]

somedone was discussing mk IV devil claw with those blessings i think yesterday, killing crushers with the heavy-> push atk repeat combo, was an interesting idea

[tall torrent]

u wanna know what actually is good at stagger and has good ADMs?

the fucking crowbar

https://tenor.com/view/thomas-the-train-thomas-thomas-the-tank-engine-thomas-and-friends-ishowspeed-gif-7297322352901128995

[mortal horizon]

i was expecting crowbar to get skullcrusher, tbh, when they first announced it

i think it should have it

idk maybe would be op

but it FEELS like a weapon that should get it

[torpid grotto]

Why did they give the crowbar shitty dodges

Ruined the wep for me

[mortal horizon]

its a fun/interesting weapon, whenever i watch someone use it i think "damn that looks pretty good and fun" but idk, it never clicks for me either when ive tried it

maybe it is the dodges

[fluid rune]

flip attacks applies skullcrusher twice immediately

[hollow ibex]

if only that was the worst part

[tall torrent]

Doesn’t crowbar have same dodge as most weapons?

[void dragon]

yeah if you are good at the game, the immense tougness regen of the class will cover you most cases but a crusher overhead

[sweet coyote]

My point stands, weekend evenings are terrible for pug gameplay

[void dragon]

you to found the bottom of the barrel that have no clue how to melee in an auric?

[tall torrent]

Yea

[sweet coyote]

lol just people running really poor builds I think, DPS to low

[tall torrent]

@wild vortex and I met one such ranged hive scum

In auric event

Which is basically havoc if it was good

[void dragon]

i dont mind bad dps, what i cant stand is people with 0 common sense that cant retreat and instead charge to their dooms and go "HELP ME YOU FOOOOOOOLSS"

usually followed with the common DC

[wild vortex]

slowly getting better at helbore

also, I hate playing with shotgun spam arbis

most braindead thing there is

worse than purg psykers

[void dragon]

after using the gun im surprised how they run out of ammo, i have been trigger happy on a mission and with minimal ammo pickup i managed

what are they doing? shooting all the mission?

[wild vortex]

I mean I was on helbore so I didn't take any ammo pick up except a couple, all the ammo went to the shotgun spammer

[wild vortex]

ya

at everything

even hordes

getting really sick of this penance ngl

[void dragon]

it makes some sense to give cover or shoot the rager swarm, but naked hordes? just get in there you fools

imagine being afraid of glorious melee combat

[wild vortex]

I mean you can just look at his ranged damage lmao

8x his melee damage

sorry 10x

[void dragon]

that melee damage is so TINY!

shameful

remove that man's badge

[wild vortex]

also I think this is my new personal best for damage taken but tbf with 2 arbis and a bookbot I can't take much credit

shovel is really fun

Just realized I had the highest melee damage in the game on an ES MMF Vet with 2 arbis and a zealot in the team.....

[sweet coyote]

I run helbore, so I suffer greatly if I get paired with teammates that can't clear chaff

if they keep getting overrun, means I keep getting overrun and then the whole build falls apart because I am not suppose to be standing in a corner meleeing

[void dragon]

funny stuff, is not that they dont clear it what makes sniper work hard, is that they dont give you room, either by stagger or because they dont give a carp for your well being

aka. my usual teammates when i play designated specialist/disabler hunter

[sweet coyote]

yeah heh

It's funny when they realize I can delete a special a second, and start actually keep my back clear

only thing I ever struggled with this build is karnak twins, to hard to land the HS needed when their shield breaks

[void dragon]

i pray for the wellbeing of the ogryns that give me cover, easiest manhunt ever when one is giving you room so no a single bomber can toss a grenade in the full run

[calm prairie]

you're almost done so I can't imagine you need advice but recon lasgun spam hordes makes it easy

tedious though like most the penances

[slate valve]

I mostly just want the sergeant headset from the penance

[steep pier]

vet shout is fun

when its buggy

shouted 3 muties out of existence no kill feed just poof

[slate valve]

“OI YOU LOT, GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE”
pop

[steep pier]

basically

xD

i was farming penances and that happend

[slate valve]

I just wanna do a flavorful “sarge” build

[wild vortex]

Been using recon a lot, wanted to try helbore too

[steep pier]

lol

if its helbore thats my forte

its the only gun i like to use on vet

[wild vortex]

It's fun, just need to aim better

[slate valve]

How is the plasma gun

[steep pier]

you get adjusted to it after you use it enough

[slate valve]

I love my guardsmen using it on the tabletop

[calm prairie]

really good

[slate valve]

How is it in the silly l4d game

[steep pier]

they moved the iron sight further back and lowered bayonet attack speed among things

those are the most recent changes

[slate valve]

How really good?

[calm prairie]

really good as in arguably best in slot

[steep pier]

its a crutch weapon like dueling sword is

[slate valve]

What if I just wanna pew pew with plasma lol

[calm prairie]

no one's gonna get mad at you for it I like to use it for that reason

[steep pier]

i dont need it to kill bulwarks

you can actually hit over their shield

with a jump

[calm prairie]

and if they do you just ignore them

[steep pier]

[slate valve]

I killed a bulwark with a basic lasgun

[sweet coyote]

I just wait until the swing back to attack, HS

[steep pier]

well

you can use a grenade or just jump and headshot them over the shield

[calm prairie]

nicest part about plasma is you don't really have to build anything into guns in your tree

[steep pier]

works for me

well the thing is

plasma can blow you up

[slate valve]

Krak grenade my beloved

[calm prairie]

it can but you don't ever use the right click

[steep pier]

that and debating between

when to use hip fire and charged shot

[calm prairie]

the right click is just shooting 3 times at once

[slate valve]

I would hope so, it’s representative of the lore and tabletop

[steep pier]

i use charge shots

for somethings that i have to aim that

[tall torrent]

It’s not a choice

There’s just hipfire

Charge fire not worth using

[calm prairie]

wastes ammo and risks blowing you up

[steep pier]

well if you need to aim at something id use charge shot

[calm prairie]

there's no accuracy difference

[tall torrent]

No, just hipfire still

[steep pier]

lol

so you can hit a sniper across the map with hipfire

[calm prairie]

yes

[steep pier]

[tall torrent]

Yea

[steep pier]

okay

more reason to not use it lol

thanks

[calm prairie]

yeah more information the game wouldn't help you with figuring out lol

[steep pier]

further proving its just a crutch weapon

which i dont need

ive only used helbore as long as i could

its what i prefer

[hollow ibex]

based

[stable socket]

if you have space, helbore honestly feels like a better plasma for havoc

same or better breakpoints on ranged and infinite ammo

[tall torrent]

The big diff is that helbore is more backline and plasma is more hybrid

[stable socket]

it's just clunkier to quickswap between, so if you have to keep pulling out your melee it feels rough (although mk5 with one motion is decent)

yeah

[tall torrent]

Helbore without a good frontliner to cover for you feels like CBT

[stable socket]

plasma is way easier to snipe with if i also have to do a lot of melee

i ran into a gunner seed with pus + stimms recently and killing shit with plasma would've run me dry in the first few rooms

but for helbore you can just keep shooting until they die because it's so ammo efficient

[sweet coyote]

yeah plasma does well with WP

if you switching to melee on helbore, something usually wrong

So if you like meleeing more and aiming less, plasma for u buddy

[mortal horizon]

cognitive behavior therapy?

lmao

[tall torrent]

yea

[mortal horizon]

oh literally thats what you meant?! hahaha

what does cognitive behavior therapy feel like? lmao

[turbid ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/jarvis-iron-man-cbt-gif-24974467

[wild vortex]

I realized this today

But when you get a nice firing line it's great fun

[steep pier]

lol

[void dragon]

remember to thank your rare bodyguard when you get one and become John Wich on the gunners/disablers

[wild vortex]

what's up with this game's memory leak

I have to restart it every couple games now

what

[torpid grotto]

Ogryn jiggle physics mod uses too much vram

Need to turn the sliders down

[livid hill]

Weirdly shovel is good to cover helbore

Krieger cosplay genuinely isnt terrible

[livid hill]

I have bad luck with that

[wild vortex]

It's what i use

[slate valve]

What are good anti chaff melee for the veteran besides the shovel

[deft crystal]

huh

anti chaff

So you got three like most optimal options

Dueling sword(armored horde/power sword(good single target + horde/ mk3 knife (good movement and bleed stacks will handle chaff)

Just know the melee combos for them

[sweet coyote]

power sword is p good too

[deft crystal]

Like the PA -> L -> L with power sword

[deft crystal]

Depends what you plan on doing

[slate valve]

I forgot veteran had a knife

[deft crystal]

Imo what you can use depends on the content

Like auric you can get away with anything really

[sweet coyote]

I mean power sword deletes maulers as easy as it does a hoard, so I dunno. It suffers mobility.

[deft crystal]

On higher havocs it becomes very skill dependant on what you can use

[deft crystal]

My only thing is

I use plas

So i use knife to be speedy

[sweet coyote]

yep

[deft crystal]

Typiucally vet goes

Ranged being slow and melee being fast

For repositioning

[narrow frost]

Tactical axe, Combat axe, Power sword

[slate valve]

[narrow frost]

Heavy sword too

[deft crystal]

this is a dude u listen to

ainz is v good at game

[deft crystal]

Can tac axe 2 shot crushers still?

[narrow frost]

Don't think so, but havent really did a max buff test

[rustic kite]

Is there anyway to make the knife better at horde clear lol
In its not optimal but im trying to make model specific builds

[tall torrent]

mk VI is tolerable at it but knife just isn't good vs density no matter what u do

[torpid grotto]

spam lights at head height and its fine

[dapper coyote]

Spam lights and sometimes shove for a breather

[tame lodge]

Push attack push attack push attack push attack

[torpid grotto]

stunlock die

ez

[calm prairie]

serrated blade passive, reciprocity passive, flesh tearer blessing, light attack spam

I like mk III blade

[swift river]

Man, I take a break for like....two weeks and I come back and CADIAN GEAR?!

[tame lodge]

But when I take a break

Cadia is gone

[swift river]

All I know is that the cap and the legs finally (mostly) complete my Cadian Commander fit

[scenic lance]

Yeah, I'm a havoc 40 chud, how could you tell?

[tame lodge]

Skull and bones

[south river]

Is this the Arc Raiders I've been hearing so much about

[scenic lance]

no it's the required hud mods to play h40

[south river]

you're not using danger Zone, not meta

join request rejected

https://tenor.com/view/fusion-reborn-gogeta-meta-this-meta-that-gif-2633305502806451607

[mortal horizon]

@slow sky noticed you arent using the 50% swap speed node on your double barrel/shovel build and instead using longshot.
is the swap speed just not needed, even when hot swapping back and forth?

testing it, i def notice it a bit, i have to slow down my melee kill->quickswap button->fire->quickswap button combo

i guess the question becomes is, how important is longshot on double barrel in h40

[slow sky]

its not really needed ive noticed

and it was more "hm i dont really need this and i can get more ranged damage from pathing this way anyway"

[mortal horizon]

damn, i noticed it immediately

example: ragers

i tried to cheekily pull my ranged out to blast em and back

and got hit

a few times

where i normally wouldn't

i could adjust but, im used to having the speed i guess

like final toll ragers for example

[slow sky]

up to you

i personally dont notice

[desert viper]

I don't notice it more than I notice Longshot

[tall torrent]

it's ~67% of the original swap time

I think the only 2 guns that definitively want longshot over OM are laspistol and revolver

[formal hamlet]

I see you're going for the American homeless veteran look.

What do you guys think of heavy las pistol for Veteran? It's not a weapon I've used much, wondering if I should make a build around it.

[drowsy perch]

i think itd be ok

its really good at headshots and not much else

[formal hamlet]

Is it like on the same level as recon lasguns?

[drowsy perch]

yea its basically infanty lasgun

[scenic lance]

Recon lasguns are kinda doodoo no

[drowsy perch]

but pistol

[drowsy perch]

nuh uh

[formal hamlet]

Wait what, recon lasguns are dogshit?

Since when? 😮

[scenic lance]

I'd just rather have like

Any other weapon

[formal hamlet]

Why?

[scenic lance]

Cause other weapons are better tbh

[formal hamlet]

Yes but why.

[drowsy perch]

the midspeed recon is really strong

run it with a crit build and its

laser minigun

[formal hamlet]

I thought all variants on recon were equally solid, no?

[scenic lance]

Not really

Fast firing one got what made it good nerfed

It's viable but eh

[formal hamlet]

I've only really used the light variant.

[scenic lance]

The average one is good, the slow firing one feels good

the niche of the fast firing one got nerfed

but it's still good for what you want to use it for

[formal hamlet]

What I use it for is shooting everything in the face.

[drowsy perch]

eh

the slow fire is basically an infantry las but fullauto

the fastest ios

[scenic lance]

The only lasgun I probably don't like more is the helbore

but the helbore can absolute melt shit even tho executioners got nerfed

[formal hamlet]

Exec got nerfed? Last I saw it was buffed.

They nerfed it after?

[scenic lance]

No longer reloads on activation

[formal hamlet]

Oh man I was wondering about that.

I could have sworn it reloaded my gun.

And I just assumed I was mixing it up with Arby.

[drowsy perch]

the fastest is just kinda silly

[formal hamlet]

Good silly or bad silly?

[drowsy perch]

bad silly

its damage is too low

[scenic lance]

Yeah hive scum is just better veteran now in regards to ranged

[formal hamlet]

I thought the idea was that you use infernus and fire a short burst at head and let the burn stacks do the rest.

[scenic lance]

Infernus stacking got nerfed a loooong time ago

[drowsy perch]

maybe

[scenic lance]

back in the day that shit melted bosses

[formal hamlet]

Yeah it was pretty fun.

I know recon got nerfed at some point but my impression was it was still a very solid gun, if not the most meta.

Maybe I should switch to the uh, middle variant since you guys feel that's the best one.

[scenic lance]

Personally my favorite is just bolt pistol with explosion radius buff so you can clear hordes by yourself and use krak nades on crushers to better effect

[formal hamlet]

I tried bolt pistol recently but it kinda put me off when it wasn't one-shotting my targets. I tried it with that grenadier build.

Maybe it's because mine's not fully levelled yet.

I'll have to give it some more time.

[scenic lance]

My bolt pistol build one shots most targets that aren't like, Reapers

[formal hamlet]

Yeah reapers or crushers I can understand, but I wasn't one-shotting gunners even.

[scenic lance]

but with this build you can two shot reapers which is nice

[formal hamlet]

My recon lasgun build was one of my favourites to play. I wouldn't bring it to havocs, but it was like my one build where I could truly just go full BRRRRR on everything and have a blast shooting.

[formal hamlet]

I have been enjoying scum, probably my second favourite class now after vet.

[scenic lance]

Despardo Scum feels op

[formal hamlet]

Man if they nerfed exec stance reload, my old bolter build is gonna feel like shit.

I don't know what FS has against exec stance.

[tropic halo]

and boring

[formal hamlet]

Desperado is the one I've put least time into, mostly been enjoying chem builds and melee builds tbh.

I'll have to post my recon lasgun build to see if anything needs to get tweaked switching to the middle mark.

If I'm enjoying the worst variant, maybe the best variant will be more fun when I'm doing aurics and shit.

Also I love helbores, I'm just really bad with them. Only one I despise is the uh, standard las rifle with the red dot sight.

[gentle lake]

infantry?

[formal hamlet]

Yeah that one.

[gentle lake]

the only one with good sights?

I wish it was decent too.

[formal hamlet]

It feels really anaemic compared to my recon las and helbore.

[scenic lance]

Tried using voidstrike staff again, man it feels like a wet noodle

[silver patrol]

it is, too

[drowsy perch]

wrath as a blessing is probably overkill on assault chainsword right

[empty heart]

whats this fine waste of ammo tier

[tall torrent]

Don’t bother watching him lol

[formal hamlet]

Are you asking what it means or are you expressing frustration with the choices?

[sly orchid]

quite possiblt the worst list ever made

rippergun is insane for toughness regen

[stiff glacier]

lasguns are decent when build for with vet

[silver patrol]

he is so real for that

don't even need to tell me this is Mr E

[slender elm]

rumbler is in the build around this tier

bullshit

[silver patrol]

why

[empty heart]

just wanna know what those guns are lmao

[meager echo]

Rumbler is so overrated. Not dealing enough dmg for the ammo cost.
Gauntlet is way better, aoe stun + brittleness. 5 bullets is more than enough to hold crushers pack.

[silver patrol]

look like all three rippers, all three twin stubbers

[empty heart]

both. im doing recon lasagna gun. wanna try grenade build and plasma gun

[silver patrol]

i think that's the vigilants?

and some braced

or maybe some infantry autoguns, they all look the same

[slow sky]

A fine waste of data rendering this image

[empty heart]

what are thr guns BUILD AROUND THIS

[slow sky]

Rumblerspam ogryn is on the same level as purg psyker
You just dont see as many of them

[empty heart]

lmao. my photo asked me if I want to keep full resolution and I said no

[slow sky]

If you made a tierlist of classes ogryn is literally the only class that would be split across multiple tiers because of the wild variance between playstyle strength

Rumbler ogryn would literally be at the top and every other ogryn playstyle would be in the bottom half somewhere

[empty heart]

have no clue about ogryn I just started playing a month ago

[meager echo]

I don't even see the point of that weapon, sub par dps against everything that's not unyielding.
The burn node is also meme tier

[slow sky]

The point is that its a wide aoe explosive weapon (infinite cleave) with massive stagger (insane safety) that you can spam (BLO) and you can pair it with pbb for damage or taunt for safety

I have literally walked through havoc 40s because we had a rumblerspam ogryn

It was very effective, did insane damage, and I barely got to play the game

It hate it

Rumbler with blo is on the same level of leave on sight as a smite in a civi for me

[meager echo]

But the point is, ogryn has melee infinite cleave on h2 shield.
4 bleed + skull crushers.
The only thing that stop him is carapace.
But again, no push over + gauntlet let you stun lock crushers pack, the class is straight forward to play...

[slow sky]

But thats still not anywhere near the level that rumblers at

[meager echo]

Really?

[slow sky]

Shield isnt so effective that it literally doesnt let anyone else play the game

Rumbler is

[silver patrol]

also the h2 on shield isn't that much used

is it?

[meager echo]

You are wrong.

Your h2 cleave through boss

Unless you run into scrab ragers, crushers, plasma gunners. Everything is stun lock

[slow sky]

The h2 has infinite cleave but most people opt for the h1 nearly all the time cuz of its significantly higher first target damage for BM meaning you actually kill things now vs in 2-3 business days

[sly orchid]

its fun outdamaging a rumbler ogryn

[silver patrol]

makes me think of vt2's shield for the dwarf

it had a similar move and it was a noob trap

[meager echo]

H1 has low cleave, no way that beat h2 bleed.

[slow sky]

H2 is good for pure horde but the moment its mixed, h1 is significantly more useful

[slow sky]

Cleave doesnt matter anymore

Brutal momentum

[silver patrol]

yeah doesn't everybody run the shield with that

[meager echo]

It matter because you apply bleed + skull crushers.

Its aoe debuff for psker

[slow sky]

Sure you can cleave through those 5 shotgunners a ton of times
Or you could kill them all on the first hit

[silver patrol]

tbh h2 was like gently caressing the enemy in front of you

and the bleed took a lot of time to actually kill

[slow sky]

Yes skullcrusher is strong but so is killing them sooner

[meager echo]

Its the bleeding + skull crushers that doing the work, not the dmg of the attack.

[slow sky]

You can have both

You can have meaningful damage and skullcrusher

[meager echo]

But you hit like 4 enemies max

[slow sky]

You realize you can just spam heavies and you get both right

[meager echo]

Meanwhile h2 apply 4 bleed + debuff to significant more enemies

[slow sky]

You get the h2 to sweep the entire group for sc
Then you one shot 4 elites
Then you sweep the entire group, then you one shot 4 more

The bleed really isnt putting in that much work against elites vs horde

[sly orchid]

only reason youd take bleed is for the DR

[slow sky]

Thats why you use the h1

[meager echo]

The thing is, i play with infinite cleave psyker, so thats a musy

[slow sky]

Im done

[sly orchid]

LOL

[meager echo]

Yeah, it is what it is. H1 number cant beat h2 number

In a team setting.

[slow sky]

Your entire strat is just being a stat stick for the most broken thing in the entire game that doesnt need it

[meager echo]

Yup

[slow sky]

Psykers nuke rooms in seconds and you exist to help them nuke 5% of that room a little bit faster

[meager echo]

Ogryn exist as an cc + debuff bot

Else just bring more dps

No point

It's not a fun way to play, but it's the most consistence way to play ogryn. His weapons are so bad at dealing carapace dps, if he can't cc or debuff why bring him at all.

[sly orchid]

HOW

LITERALLY HOW

YOU LITERALLY HAVE THE PICKAXE

[meager echo]

are you taking other class into account. You see where i'm coming from...

[sly orchid]

no

[slow sky]

All of his melee weapons have okay to good carapace adms

[sly orchid]

i look at classes in their individual vacuum

i would never bring another class into the conversation to guage class effectiveness because it should be effective on its own

[sly orchid]

karsolas 2 shot

[meager echo]

ps6 on vet, evis/ds4 on zealot, even scum do more carapace dps than him

[sly orchid]

with the billhook grab light heavy

[meager echo]

with that kind of dps in the team, you just need to stun lock the carapace packs

and your done

[sly orchid]

or just dodge them and deal with em that way

crushers have a melee que

you can legit stunlock a group with pickaxe stagger alone

[slow sky]

Devils claw too? Heavy sword? Chainsword? Or are you just cherrypicking the literal best armor weapons in the entire game and not comparing the entire library of weapons available

[meager echo]

i don't know, i see crusher pack I used no push over > taunt > gauntlet special 5 bullets. It's stun lock, no need to do anything fancy.

after 5 bullets, no pusher over is up again. And by that time VoC should be up

the stun lock game continue

Don't hate me for doing this, it's fatshark fault for the carpace spam.

[meager echo]

Brothers, unless it's premade, no-one going to use these weapons.

[sly orchid]

devils claw and heavy sword are very popular on hive scum

[meager echo]

Needle gun spam should not be a thing, all i see in my lobby is that kind of HS. It's the new psyker

[sly orchid]

where did i mention needle pistol?

[meager echo]

i mean the gun is so strong that everyone spam that weapon, they not bother using anything else. That's what i'm trying to say.

I know that most people hate the idea of meta slave, but it's what most people do in pubs. I'm kinda accepted it at this point. No point trying to change their opinion. As long as it work i'm okay with it.

[austere wedge]

why does the perfect roll plasma gun have such odd stats

[meager echo]

I play ogryn as a stun bot, and it's deal more than reasonable damage. No chance other ogryn melee weapon beat slab shield in a team setting.

[slender elm]

simple answer really, heat management is pointless past 69

[meager echo]

The infinite cleave + bleed is insane, I don't even see the point of carapace perk at this point, just stun carapaces and cleave everything else, don't bother with carapace damage.

[austere wedge]

well in the spirit of having nothing else to do with my money i spent 12 mil buying plasma guns

and i still dont have the perfect roll 👍

[supple stag]

loser, I've only spent around 2mil dockets myself and got one

I wish I could sell you mine, I don't use plasma anyway

[sweet coyote]

What is the "perfect" roll?

I think I just dumped uh..

Oh I went 75% ammo/69%therm/76% charge rate

and called it day

[tepid otter]

Think it was 69% Thermal / 71% Charge rate and the rest are 80

unless someone can quote me on that, i get it mixed up everynow and then

[supple stag]

yeah, that's the one

if you need perks and blessings, here you go

[dapper plank]

the 69 looks nice

but the 71 look EW ..... not worth it

60 or 80, only those numbers are allowed in the empire

[supple stag]

Nuh uh

[dapper plank]

your weapon might have merit, but it does not have rizz

and rizz is half the battle

[supple stag]

Actual gibberish

[thorn lark]

Plasma STC advocates for 69 71

[dapper plank]

sure, and STC has no rizz

[icy moat]

Wtf is a sainted weapon

[supple stag]

Mod

[icy moat]

Oh, no wonder lmao

Which one?

[supple stag]

Red weapons at home is called

[icy moat]

Ty!

[supple stag]

Iirc

[dapper plank]

i hate that people use that mod, it confuses to many people, including me for a while when i got into the game.

most pointless mod, and it actively causes confusion

would help if creators turned it off when filming.

[faint beacon]

Those are the actual optimal stat rolls as unusual as it looks

Plasma, Ripper, Force Greatsword are the acceptations to the 60 dump stat rule

They want very specific stat allocations to be as optimal as possible

But yes that is a perfect roll Plasma

[wind gyro]

what's a good secondary blessing on laspistol for a bleed/burn & crit build? was gonna do head hunter like recon las but mf pistol aint have that

[faint beacon]

Grab Reciprocity talent on the right bottom section of the tree dodging will give you up to 40% Crit on an already high Crit chance weapon

Dum Dum + Infernus though

[slate valve]

I’m looking at the auras for vet

I wanna do a gunner build, and it looks like the killteam aura is just better than the scavenger one? Like extra damage for you and your squad sounds more useful then a tiny amount of ammo regen

If I’m dead wrong, please correct me

[distant plaza]

ain't no one said no to more dakka

[faint beacon]

Scavenger is the best hands down

[distant plaza]

no ammo, no dakka

[faint beacon]

You really only grab the others when there’s another vet running scavenger

[slate valve]

Really? Maybe I’m reading it wrong

[faint beacon]

Or extremely specific breakpoints which are rare

[slate valve]

I feel like you only get handful of bullets per minute

I’m glad I asked, I would’ve been missing out lol. I presume it regens a lot more ammo then I think it does?

[faint beacon]

1% depending on the stock of the weapon

Besides veteran should be played more like a hybrid

So youll play an even split of melee and ranged

Basically if you kill elites and specials with your melee as well youll notice your ammo climb back up

[slate valve]

Is it like, 1% a second?

Oh it’s per kill I’m dumb

[wind gyro]

yee already got that, had the talet tree sorted out but i havent played vet or used the pistol inna quick min, wasnt too sure on what i should take. dum dum it is tho!

[distant plaza]

1% per 5 seconds

[faint beacon]

Per 5 seconds

[slate valve]

My build is mostly killing elites and specialists at range with extreme prejudice, and wading through the chaff with a melee

[slate valve]

Hmm I see

[wild vortex]

Can use it if you're running helb0re

Because of how ammo efficient the gun already is

[faint beacon]

I mean yeah that’s like the vet mindset right there just sometimes engage with melee

[wild vortex]

And Shock Trooper too

[slate valve]

I have two builds Im trying to do, ones more of a gunner and the others more of a sergeant. I’ll run the kill team aura on the support focused sergeant, and scavenger on the gunner

[wild vortex]

I cosplay a Krieger with shovel and helbore

[slate valve]

I can tell

And I respect it

I wish they had a German voice for veteran so you could really be a krieger but oh well

[wild vortex]

Unironically a good weapon combo

[faint beacon]

Shovel is a solid pick

If you want a genuine safety net option that lets you invest a few more points pick up Tac Axe

[wind gyro]

vostroyan cosplay peak tho sp shiny and red

[faint beacon]

That’s basically one of Veterans Bread and Butter melees

[slate valve]

I’m in the early game and I still use the basic lasgun and shovel

I’m like level 12 and I’ve just been upgrading my two lil guys

[sly orchid]

dont

just buy a new weapon

save your materials for when your level 30

[faint beacon]

Yeah I’ll stress don’t worry about investing till like just shy lvl 30 cause it’s incredibly hard to roll a good stat weapon till then

[sly orchid]

also takes alot of resources

[sweet coyote]

It is a small amount for 1 person, spread across 4 people - and at higher difficulty you'll procc it almost continiously. It will generate a lot of ammo.

Especially if you're in a tricky 40 min game where every shot counts.

[slate valve]

I forget it’s squad wide

Touché

[ember halo]

So, helbore build. I’m gonna get one going and give this a shot (HA!) but looking for a little advice.

Never really used the gun before. How do you competently play with this gun? Obviously being stuck aiming in a game like darktide is a one way ticket to a quick death.

And will it handle things like crushers/maulers effectively if you can land weak spot shots?

[mystic pilot]

pinned guide

Helbore is a marksman rifle

[sweet coyote]

Yes

[mystic pilot]

you single out specialists and elites with it

[wild vortex]

Helb0re is one of those rare guns that has great carapace damage

I just played it in a CIVI

Headshotting maulers when out of kraks lul

[mystic pilot]

you can see its damage stats in the pinned guide

[ember halo]

I have seen the guide and build, I’m more just wondering how to not get destroyed while using it. Lol

[wild vortex]

I've been using it since yesterday, slowly getting the hang of intelligently swapping to melee

Basically just an awareness issue

[mystic pilot]

dont use IV. stick near team so the horde doesnt focus you

and always melee your way out

[formal hamlet]

The obvious thing is get good at popping heads, this is not a gun you aim at the chest. The more nuanced thing to learn is getting space for yourself to take the shot while being harassed by melees. This requires you to get comfortable pushing enemies and sprint sliding to get some breathing room before shooting for example. But I'm no expert, so maybe there's better advice for it.

[wild vortex]

Yeah I use 3a but V is also good if you want to fire even faster

[ember halo]

Yeah, I was thinking about grabbing something like taxe or power sword to deal with mixed hordes

[mystic pilot]

Taxe is fast enough

[wild vortex]

Not psword

[mystic pilot]

Power Sword is a bit getting used to

[wild vortex]

Psword too slow

Taxe is good, I use mk1 shovel personally

Extremely safe and strong weapon

[ember halo]

Yeah I’ve never really used shovel much. I’ve been meaning to try it out

[sweet coyote]

I use psword, personally. The high damage can get you out of dodge sometimes.

Taxe is good, easier to use than shovel tbh.

[ember halo]

I use psword as well on my other builds, but yeah, I can see slower attacks/charging being a bit of a hold back in the middle of being surrounded

[formal hamlet]

Taxe or power sword would be preferable since I like having my melee be good against crushers and such if I'm running helbore. I personally run taxe. Kraks help with that but I'm not a fan leaning exclusively on those for anti-carapace.

[mystic pilot]

PSword need power cycler

[ember halo]

100, I use it on mine.

[formal hamlet]

Power cycler and sunder are the recommended blessing I believe.

[wild vortex]

Shovel is better than taxe for anti carapace iirc

[mystic pilot]

sunder or brutal momentum

he already got helbore for anit carp

[ember halo]

Yeah, kraks only go so far. And sometimes they’ll bounce off random pox walkers/non-armoured enemies lol

[wild vortex]

You really want to try and headshot a Crusher preparing to beat your face in?

[midnight galleon]

axe is so boring though....

[mystic pilot]

at that point why are you in melee range of a Crusher about to bring down its maul?

[midnight galleon]

in like an aesthetic way

[wild vortex]

I mean the point is to have a versatile melee weapon lol

[mystic pilot]

I hate the times I got "backstabbed" by a Crusher

[wild vortex]

I use spidey sense text for that now

[formal hamlet]

I haven't seen the stats, but from what I've gathered in this channel shovel is an "okay" melee weapon, taxe is a very good one. I use shovel on my slayer build for uncanny strike, otherwise I think taxe is overall more effective. Would be interested to verify if shovel is better, would have learned something new.

[wild vortex]

Taxe is great but afaik it needs a little more melee investment to be really really good. Shovel you can use with basically zero investment and have it be extremely serviceable

[formal hamlet]

What kind of melee investment? One of the reasons taxe gets used from what I understood is that you didn't need nodes like trench fighter for it to work well.

[mystic pilot]

TF can make it even better

[wild vortex]

The WS area or the global rending node or AE

Because I tried using Taxe on my MMF ES setup and it felt weaker than shovel

Not bad or anything but weaker

[formal hamlet]

I had the opposite impression when comparing my experience with shovel vs. taxe but I'd need to check my builds to see what I invested in for both.

[wild vortex]

I think one of the things that just carries shovel is Uncanny

[formal hamlet]

Definitely nice to have, yeah.

[wild vortex]

That + scrusher = heaps of free damage

[formal hamlet]

Where's one of the Vet nerds when I need'em.

[mystic pilot]

GuideWIP

aka the guy who made the guide

[formal hamlet]

Yeah first person I was thinking of was Path.

[wild vortex]

Path is offline rn

That guy could probably solo a maelstrom with a fucking pencil

[formal hamlet]

No idea how good he is at the game, but he seems to know the numbers and tests stuff to verify.

I on the other hand just go by vibes and the advice he gives.

[void dragon]

Like most sane people, bless Path for he is cursed with knowledge of numbers

[wild vortex]

So yesterday he was lagging pretty badly and did only 1.8x the damage of anyone else on the team instead of 2.5x, while still taking the least

[formal hamlet]

I played some laggy Darktide yesterday, it was gross.

Kills and pings would take like a whole second to register.

[wild vortex]

"This is unplayable man"

proceeds to wipe an entire horde before I could even reach hin

[dreamy spade]

Best infantry lasgun?

[formal hamlet]

[terse crypt]

"Luckily my +60% to everything perks kept me alive"

[formal hamlet]

So I don't know how optimised the build recommendation's in path's guide are, but for example the sniper build using the Helbore recommends the tactical axe without grabbing WS. No mention of it having better anti armour properties over shovel though.

I generally recommend Tactical Axe (Mk VII) as it has good attack speed (Trench Fighter Drill not required) and good horde clear, while being able to stagger both Ragers, on top of having higher dodge & move speeds, making it an excellent self defense weapon for ranged builds.

[slender elm]

Shovel is better anti armor from uncanny

Taxe is just great comfort

[formal hamlet]

Which one offers more mobility out of curiosity.

[slender elm]

Probably taxe

Check numbers from guide lol idk

[void dragon]

Taxe is basically knife without uncanny strike, which it doesn't need much of because on crits it eats caparace

[formal hamlet]

Yeah from what I gathered it makes up for anti armour by just the speed of spamming crits until the thing dies.

But dunno if that means it can kill crushers faster than a shovel.

[wind gyro]

aye gang, flesh tearer or riposte on knife running a bleed/burn build but the 20 on riposte is nice

[unreal nova]

Then again, that's also knoife.

Wet noodle if not critting, critting is laughing at things vanish.

[formal hamlet]

I assume taxe is better for horde clear else why not just suggest knife in all those cases where taxe is suggested.

[mystic pilot]

KEEP HACKING UNTIL IT BREAK!

[wild vortex]

Taxe7 has the ultra safe horde and rager clear combo

PA into heavy

Laugh at anything trying to attack you

[formal hamlet]

I think that's the one I use.

[unreal nova]

Imo, both and ds are like, generally bad for serious horde clearing.

[wild vortex]

? Taxe is definitely way better than any DS for horde

Just because of BM if nothing else

[formal hamlet]

Yeah I'm not a fan of DS for horde clear myself, but taxe does a pretty solid job of it in my experience.

[wild vortex]

(Even though its swing patterns are also better)

[unreal nova]

It is, but they still take much longer than anything with a proper horde clear.

[formal hamlet]

That's probably okay, I think part of taxe's appeal is the versatility, no?

[unreal nova]

In a way. Between them is more, more mobility vs clear speed. Though I think I use the 4.

6 for knoife.

[ember halo]

For me, this is why I love Taxe. It may not hit as hard as some other weapons, but its stagger is insane. I run it on zealot with BP and it’s just laughable how much you stagger/kill anything

[silver patrol]

pretty sure it has better dps against crushers

i don't think it really has any notable stagger tho

[unreal nova]

Knoife? Probs if you crit alot.

[silver patrol]

tacaxe

compared to shovel mk1

[unreal nova]

They both suck if game says fuck you, 0 crits even with like 50% crit chance.

[formal hamlet]

Alt attack I think staggers more, but against crushers? Probably not, better of just spamming face with lights.

[silver patrol]

alt attack has a fixed stagger yeah

it's not incredible, but it does have that

[formal hamlet]

I used it against ragers and stuff sometimes, but against crushers they shrug it off 80% of the time so it feels like time I could have spent fishing for crits.

[silver patrol]

not sure it works against crusher, but it's useful against ragers

[fluid rune]

shovel mk1 alt attack can stagger crusher with a headshot. kinda meh though

[silver patrol]

yeah it's basically the same special

the "stick the weapon out and somehow stagger one enemy in front of you"

[formal hamlet]

Shovel alt I also use to stagger sometimes but again, time better spent swinging to kill. Stagger is nice if you know your buddy is going to finish it while you keep it busy, that doesn't come up a lot in my matches.

I suppose it's slower DPS for safer 1v1, but if you're comfortable with your dodges and spacing left click works best still.

[dreamy spade]

drip

[wild vortex]

mk1 shovel special staggers mutie out of charge

pretty funny

also staggers crusher out of overhead if you poke it in the nose

[formal hamlet]

Okay guys I'm going to dip my toe into the cursed world of Darktide mods. What are the top 3 most essential mods I could not live without after using?

I've seen one that shows burster AOE circles, that seems handy to have.

[distant plaza]

numeric ui
scoreboard+ovenproofs patch
creature spawner

solo play
stimmcooldown
weapon filter
the cosmetics improved series
if you're a touch disabled spidey sense

[formal ice]

Very cherry

[formal hamlet]

I'm not seeing a "soloplay" mod, what's that?

[silver patrol]

Healthbars, no jump dodge, spidey sense and the forced weapon switching/ability etc

Launched the game without mods and i cannot believe people play that vanilla piece of junk

[formal hamlet]

What does no jump dodge do? Sounds like something built into vanilla.

[silver patrol]

If you spam dodge, you don't jump

If they are bound to the same key

[wild vortex]

Danger zone, Numeric UI, Scoreboard + Ovenproof, Uptime

I use spidey sense only for text indicator for cleaves and nets

[silver patrol]

I can't believe people play weapon specialist without the forced weapon switch

[wild vortex]

Because sound gets borked sometimes

[silver patrol]

I love pressing 2 and right click to switch to my gun and aim and actually just block with my melee instead

[distant plaza]

lets you play offline solo missions
tertium 4or5 lets you use your other characters as 'bots'

[lost seal]

hey thats me

[wild vortex]

[lost seal]

Probably not as much as you think

[past peak]

Then play another class

Lole

[tribal tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-no-nonono-noooo-cat-no-gif-13597132752790194338

[serene pawn]

do you guys own 6 days in fhaluja

if yes how is the game ?

[formal hamlet]

I don't own any timeshares in Fhaluja.

Wasn't there a mod that let you put sights on guns and such?

[analog yacht]

I still can't believe they added a vermintide favorite weapon and made it a power weapon and then made it bad

[quiet lark]

ya you can get it from the darktide modders servet

#1168063453416669284 message

should be right

[slate valve]

Okay bolt pistol and devil claw sword with a krak grenade feels reeeeeeally good on the sergeant build

Dopamine reached

[dry cloak]

try heavy sword if you havent

devil claw is very niche weapon

[latent star]

I want to like the devil claw but I think the game has gotten too fast for it.

[slate valve]

Enemies of the emprah splattered, soldiers of the emprah bolstered

[dry cloak]

not really

[slate valve]

The bolt and krak are perfect anti elite, devil claw is really good at chaff clearing from what I’ve experienced

[dry cloak]

pair it with stealth you are good to go

[dry cloak]

sounds about right

dont forget about parry on that thing

it disables ragers

[slate valve]

I really really wanna get that sergeant headset for my boy but I got grinding to do

[dry cloak]

dont force yourself

it will make your burnout faster

[slate valve]

Oh yeah I’m good, I’m not no lifing the game for it

Just that’s one of my goals

[latent star]

The issue I see with the parry is as the game throws more specialists and AoE stuff at you, dodging and positioning becomes more and more important and that makes the parry a higher risk without higher reward.

[slate valve]

That’s why bolt pistol go BLAM

[dry cloak]

i agree that enemy density got a bit crazy

like trash hordes

[latent star]

Parrying a crusher overhead feels great but if there are four trappers and two dogs and a poxburster looking at you "stand still for half a second" is really dangerous

[dry cloak]

sure make them numerous

but special and elite spam is not fun a lot of times

[latent star]

I like the higher density but I do think poxbursters need some changes, the game is clearly struggling with how it spawns them.

[slate valve]

I’m still in the early game so im not experiencing that yet

[dry cloak]

savor that

and remember

theres nothing wrong with sticking in the middle of the ladder

[slate valve]

Like I said, im doing a “sarge” support build

[latent star]

Dunno, I think the game really comes together at high difficulty. The music is pounding, three other players are all desperately fighting and you just hit a rhythm where you need to perfectly dance between targets and strategies to survive.

[latent star]

I've been trying combat axe and power sword on a pretty melee focused support build, combat axe is fun if you wanna try something else.

[dry cloak]

not really a new build. have fun thats what matters

[slate valve]

Is only in death does duty end worth the drawbacks if I wanna be more support focused? It looks worth it but I don’t wanna load into a game with it and throw the game by accident

[dry cloak]

nope

[slate valve]

I love the imperial guard so I’m going with the flavour

[dry cloak]

revive on shout is not worth it

[slate valve]

Duty and honor definitely looks good

[latent star]

It's generally a bad talent IMO especially since it costs a valuable talent point.

[dry cloak]

take it

piss toughness is single thing that can keep teams together

[slate valve]

Leave no one behind looks better than only in death

[latent star]

Yeah duty and honor is mandatory

[slate valve]

I’ll probably do duty and honor, leave no one behind, and born leader when the time comes

Keep my team in the fight

[latent star]

LNOB is ok but I think revive speed on curios is more important.

[slate valve]

I do love how they make nods to the orders used on the tabletop game with the tree abilitie

[slate valve]

Why not both

[dry cloak]

well both arbitrator and hive scum were designed around codexes

[latent star]

I've tried it, the extra speed from the talent is a minor boost. It's not nothing but those final vet points are super critical.

[slate valve]

I’m still only level 13 so I don’t really care at this point

[tropic halo]

Next class should be an agent of the Noble houses

[slate valve]

Just looking at what looks fun

[latent star]

The big issue I ran into with LNOB is it doesn't give you any horde clear or damage resistance so the speed boost is probably not gonna save someone in real danger.

[latent star]

For sure, play around with everything and just have fun.

[dry cloak]

next class is gonna be the emps

source IDZD

[tropic halo]

emps?

[slate valve]

Honestly I think a skitarii would be awesome

[dry cloak]

the EMPS

[dry cloak]

nah if admech is added its gonna be a tech adept

[tidal fox]

hadron isnt gonna like an emp

[slate valve]

Once again, why not both

[dry cloak]

she would like a omnisiah to be the new class

[dry cloak]

double the work

[slate valve]

It was a bit

[dry cloak]

and over riding current classes

skitarri is just vet+

and admech themed

[tidal fox]

skibidi mechanicus

[slate valve]

Skitarii would work reallllly differently compared to the veteran if they did it right

[dry cloak]

lower your expectations

[slate valve]

This is a hypothetical

I have No expectations

[dry cloak]

good

loose all hope you have in fatshark

[slate valve]

Not going that far

[dry cloak]

then you have taken the first step on the road to disapointment

[slate valve]

A lot of gamers seem to love dunking on the devs of the game they play everyday

A bit ironic

Helldivers, arc raiders, darktide, there seems to be a proverbial stick up a lot of gamers asses trashing on and belittling the game devs

I just think while critical feedback and constructive critique is necessary, I find a lot of people are either fatalistic or just real jerks spouting off insults to the dev team. People need to relax, yknow

[dry cloak]

we mostly joke about it

we have few valid criticisms

most of it being shitty balance

[slate valve]

Like I said, critique is vital

But I’ve seen a lot of garbage sewer rats in my time act like devs are the worst people in the world because of a nerf or missed opportunity

Really disheartening to see

[dry cloak]

game was review bombed because of nerfs

dt was through that

[dry tundra]

Imagine if we had Cadian 8th cosmetics

[wild vortex]

Thanks to HD2 we have even more such people! Isn't it fun!

https://tenor.com/view/crying-happy-but-sad-face-gif-19422780

[supple stag]

I've been out of loop for a while, how's power falchion?

[hollow ibex]

mid

[past peak]

Imagine a Power Sword but more larp and less good

[hollow ibex]

but i like it

[supple stag]

I think I'll tend to my taxe

[faint beacon]

The fact we’re coping by using overload unironically

Should tell you the state of the weapon

I needs a handful of tweaks to be very notable but right now it’s seriously just

“Meh”

[hybrid plover]

Okay. My hot take of the day. Overload is actually good. Even on relic.

[faint beacon]

It’s not like a must take good

I’d call it like a if we’re unironically ranking blessings

B+ tier

Mainly cause it lowers Heat by 1/4th thus making it cool faster and it staggers everything around you

Aside from that it’s just there

I’d gas the fuck up out of it more if Falchion was an “Out of the box” solid melee choice but it would need ADM and Damage changes

Praying if they ever do buff it, it doesnt go overboard cause like I’d rather not have Power Sword 2

[supple stag]

Sounds rough

I'll give it a go, someday

[latent star]

Power falchion mostly feels like a slightly worse shovel to me (great horde clear, good anti-elite under the right circumstances). I think people overstate how bad it is (me included) but it really does feel like a -1 version of other weapons.

[unreal nova]

Problem is, why not just use shovel then?

It's already mediocre.

[latent star]

Right.

It's not an awful weapon but it is just an inferior one.

[unreal nova]

Going worse just feels poopy.

[latent star]

It's mediocre blessing choice in weapon form.

[viscid sparrow]

shovel is fun though, and lets be honest, every vet melee is mediocre compared to Psword or DS mk4...

oh, right and Rashad exists in the non-mediocre section too imo

[unreal nova]

Rashad absolutely is. Middle ground between those two imo.

[slate valve]

Is there a last chancer cosmetic for the veteran? I feel like it would be the most fitting for a reject lol

[unreal nova]

Not as crazy strong as ps but more mobility than it, way better horde clear than ds but lower mobility than it.

[tall torrent]

I don’t think it’s that hard to buff actually

[latent star]

Make the baseline heat better and let the weapon use a real blessing.

[tall torrent]

Shorter heavy attack windup
Change Mk I’s push attack from using Smiter to H Smiter
Change Mk IIb’s push attack from using tank to H tank
Give H sweep SR function

Some ADM tweaks for normal attacks

[viscid sparrow]

I myself use Energy Leak and Wrath wiith 80% Heat Managing on it currently (haven't tested that combo in an actual game yet tho)

[tall torrent]

Cranial + overload actually isn’t bad for it

[hybrid plover]

So we're just forgetting knife and Rashad and tac axe huh

[primal zealot]

love me mercy killer meme knife

[slate valve]

Does using voice of command not have a voice line for it?

Tried it out in the meat grinder and he just yelled lol

[faint beacon]

Voicelines are usually muted in psyk

[turbid ibex]

Meat grinder doesnt have voicelines outside of grunting

[slow sky]

trust me
youll know the voice of command voice lines

theres a sticker here that exists cuz of it

where is it

[supple stag]

Creed's swagger! They've brought out the Elites

[tepid solstice]

VICTORY …… or death!

[slate valve]

Ohhhh yeah, I played my first mission with it and I am not disappointed anymore

Voice of command is now cooler than focus fire

Never leaving the mourningstar without my bolt pistol and voice of command again

[tame lodge]

Fighting game combos

🗣️

[silver patrol]

i don't see motion inputs

[unreal nova]

But they are there, if you read it wrong for funni reasons.

[silver patrol]

no serious person calls buttons with L/M/H and a number

[unreal nova]

No. Motion controls with a wii stick.

[tall torrent]

I'm simplifying melee weapons' sections (reducing character count)

[prisma crest]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-nerd-emoji-gif-1712163874519931175

[unreal nova]

Thus, reading it absolutely wrong.

[tall torrent]

chain weapons' sections are super long and if FS ever add 3rd variant I wouldn't have enough characters left to put it in

I also think this looks way nicer than before

[drowsy perch]

this is probably one of the best cosmetic sets in a while tbh

[silver patrol]

and it's all recycled assets

[tame lodge]

A red visor helmet had to die for it

[slate valve]

Perfect for the cutthroat honestly

[latent star]

Chain weapons have such great vibes I hope they're strong someday.

[slate valve]

I use chain weapons because of the great vibes

I don’t get a flying fuck about meta or optimization especially at the low level im at

[hollow ibex]

tbf

chaxe is pretty good

just suffers from big axe mobility

[latent star]

I'd say it's on the better side of OK but it isn't trash, yeah

It can do some Big Damage but leaves you vulnerable while doing so.

[hollow ibex]

mk12's only a bit worse than rashad now

[latent star]

Like the Devil Claw, I think chain weapons were designed for a slower version of the game we have and struggle with new spawns.

Holding still to kill one rager is a risk with reward, holding still to kill one of seven ragers backed up by three crushers and a trapper is suicide.

But they aren't garbo or anything, just riskier then they should be.

Also cursed take but veteran has bad mobility and I think Rev It Up is actually worthwhile on chain weapons and would be strong if the weapons were a bit better.

[tame lodge]

[hollow ibex]

oh i don't rev attack unless it's a crusher or something lol

[latent star]

Yeah the rev attack right now is mostly a mistake, which is a shame because why chainsaw if no chainsaw?

[hollow ibex]

yeah the way revs are implemented in this game just don't work very well in 2026

or 2025

or 2024

[drowsy perch]

really depends

assault chainsword with crit build is pretty strong

even on auric

falters a little if theres a lot of armored enemies (like scab ragers)

but also thats a skill issue and scab ragers suck

[brave acorn]

That does look better. Here’s a question: for example, is it possible to go from push to h1, or will it always be h2?

[latent star]

What crit build are you thinking?

[drowsy perch]

with vet atleast

also onslaught

since afaik each of the special action hits chainsword does applies that brittleness

[hollow ibex]

it does not

[tall torrent]

push chains into H2 unless the combo ends for whatever reason (stunned, spent too long not attacking, staggered, etc)

[latent star]

Each tick applying on hits would be pretty fun

[hollow ibex]

would make onslaught more interesting

[drowsy perch]

seemed like it was helping when i was testing

[hollow ibex]

if you install the debuff indicator mod, it'll be very clear when onslaught applies

[drowsy perch]

so should i just take off onslaught and put it into something else

[hollow ibex]

probably, onslaught is not a good talent

[drowsy perch]

should be tick based cause thatd make it good

[hybrid plover]

Onslaught is nice on vraks inf auto

I'll give it that.

[latent star]

I still think onslaught is decent on rapid fires like the recon but rapid fires are generally kind of weak right now.

[hybrid plover]

Vraks is not weak.

Vet makes it sing.