veteran-class

[slender elm]

And depending on your weapon, I'd skip 10% rending and take grenades on kill insread

I prefer to do it while jetpacking

But that's not this game

[lyric path]

Alyssa one of the havoc 40 players said that i dont need sureriority complex

[slender elm]

Wtf is your build?

[lyric path]

its in the video lol

[slender elm]

I mean weapons

[lyric path]

power falchion.....mid as it maybe i like it

either the recon lasgun or the stub revolver

have being using the stub revolver quite allot recently

[slender elm]

Not taking superiority complex is like no cheese in a burger

Bloody sad

[lyric path]

cool beans

[tame lodge]

I think you should address the lack of Precision Strikes

Rather than the lack of Superiority

💀

[slender elm]

Is that the weakspot damage on left

Well he has 1 point, he aint getting there

[tame lodge]

He should have it to begin with

[slender elm]

Probably

[tame lodge]

No no
Not probably

Must

[lyric path]

if anyone is curious as to why i use low profile mostly for well obvious reasons i hope its obvious

[slender elm]

We're just saying your build is mid

But eh, it's fine

[lyric path]

cool beans thanks for the input

[forest lagoon]

lmao

fencing has an instant 40 frames, block has an instant 20, balance has 10 windup frames before a 30 frame window

If you wanted exact numbers

[slender elm]

I see

[lyric path]

What discord?

[lyric path]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-homer-simpson-nerd-yelling-insult-gif-7884166

[forest lagoon]

SM2 discord

full of religious chuds

[forest lagoon]

I only know this so I can shit on people using fencing

[lyric path]

???

[forest lagoon]

Space Marine 2

[lyric path]

Ohhhh good to know

[dry cloak]

Sniper and heavy were my faves

[forest lagoon]

I love heavy

[dry cloak]

Also hammer bulwark

[forest lagoon]

[dry cloak]

I like hammer bulwark

With volkite pistol

And assault with power sword and inferno pistol

[slender elm]

isnt hammer bulwark kinda shit

loses the shield which is the main point of the class

[dry cloak]

idc

hammer time

by mc hammer

[slender elm]

dont know what happened to him after he went broke

[frigid shuttle]

you don't need shield

bulwark thammer is a more casual assault play, since you're redic tanky

[slender elm]

But shield bash

[frigid shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/thunderhammer-thunder-hammer-warhammer-warhammer40k-gif-15913122

[wraith wyvern]

Do stealth vets exist?

[dry cloak]

rarely they comeout of infiltrate

[tame lodge]

If you have to ask that means they are doing a great job

[midnight totem]

There's like

5 stealth vets

Me, me, me, me, and me

[potent talon]

What's a good vet build for havoc 30 and up? Can't quite seem to find something comfortable current build is voc recon laz gun

[hollow ibex]

there's a havoc build in the pins

[potent talon]

Bet Thanks

[midnight galleon]

what kinda weapons do you run for stealth vet

[hollow ibex]

knife/ps/rashad + DB/revolver

with frags

[silk elbow]

god I hate dumpstats sometimes

I wanted to just make an optimal plasma gun
very simple

I have 30 plasma guns, all of them have 80's in both thermal resistance and charge time
not a single one I can just say "fuck it, close enough"

[hollow ibex]

you are rolling one of the hardest weapons in the game to roll tbf

lol

[silk elbow]

I know
But all 30 of them having 80’s in both thermal and charge is insane

[hollow ibex]

thats bad luck yeah

[silk elbow]

But welp
Guess I go back to just grinding maelstroms

[unreal nova]

You didn't even just get a thermal dump. Wow.

[uncut haven]

anyone got a melee focused vet build

[tall torrent]

Check pinned guide

[mystic pilot]

ae there other good weapons beside hellbore lasgun for sniper build? (assuming the lasgun crit ammo node is switched for something else if alternative isnt a lasgun?)

[tall torrent]

Pretty much everything with ~2 finesse or higher

[mystic pilot]

oh that's shown in the guide? lemme see

[tall torrent]

I’ve been updating weapons’ sections to include more details

Including damage, ADM, finesse

Ranged weapons are focused rn cuz they’re easier to update (fewer attacks)

[mystic pilot]

yea I see the stat included now

hah even infantry lasgun as at least finesse 2

0.75 lol poor recon lasgun at least you got the ridiculous firerate for a lasgun

heavy laspistol technically count... if its MkII

oh poor Plasma Gun

welp bolt weapons are out

[orchid hemlock]

Vet is probably the best melee class in the game behind Scum

[mystic pilot]

look like you added the finesse for them up to Bolt pistol

[orchid hemlock]

Every vet build is a "melee" build 😈

[tall torrent]

do keep in mind that finesse is a calculation process for dmg

higher base dmg means for the same finesse number, u get more dmg out of crit & weakspot hits

[mystic pilot]

plasma gun is better off when it has a build supporting it rather than a slightly tweaked sniper build though?

[tall torrent]

plasma is a really strong low point cost ranged weapon for sniping specials & ranged elites

[mortal horizon]

anything i should be doing differently for a recon las build for havoc?
using recon las XII with dumdum/infernus

sometimes i use kraks, sometimes shredders

i could drop the bleed talent for field improv, i was just testing it with dueling sword to see if it helped horde clear

[orchid hemlock]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c9abbca-ad8e-424c-8780-11409eba0097/funny-laser-pointer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[tall torrent]

DS just ass at horde no matter what u do

[mortal horizon]

ya but i want shout

oh and no focus target hmm

ill try this way

also i dont find the weapon swap speed is SUPER important with recon/ds so i use longshot but maytbe thats bad

[tall torrent]

longshot is gud for recon

unless ur using XII (longer swap & reload time)

[mortal horizon]

ya i am, but its still not that bad

is another model viablke?

[tall torrent]

I prefer VIc and XIV

[mortal horizon]

ok ill try the others

[safe heath]

Can anyone play right now?

[orchid hemlock]

No I have depression 😞

[safe heath]

Damn

Really

That sucks

But at least you can take anti-depressions and alcohol

Or just play dark Tide

[livid crystal]

What if both

[forest lagoon]

What does ranged finesse mean?

Keep seeing the term pop up

[mortal horizon]

is one better than the other, what are the strengths/weaknesses of each

[serene bough]

Ranged weakspot & crit damage

[forest lagoon]

ah ok

also, is the focus target keystone essentially just a 20% damage buff

because the choice between focus target and marksman focus is pretty hard

[gilded wraith]

I haven't tried Mk14 since the vet rework. I should give it another try.

[gilded wraith]

This might be dated, 6c had the top ammo efficiency. 14 has some cleave.

14 falls off in havoc due to increased enemy hit mass negating the cleave.

[brave acorn]

Anybody have a build for infiltrate vet? I gotta do it for penances and would like the experience to be as minimally awful as possible.

[mystic pilot]

bomber build use it, in pinned guide

infiltrate buff the shredder grenades

[mystic pilot]

that's what I know.

[brave acorn]

Ah, missed that

[lyric path]

Ya know the moment you use VOC you given yourself up to the meta

For veteran

[brave acorn]

sobs this will make me a better player

[orchid hemlock]

You mean weapons specialist

Right? 😃

[tall torrent]

Check pinned guide I recently updated a lot of stuff

XIV I think has faster TTK on specialists?

Even tho it’s lower dps

[austere mica]

This is funny because exe is probably better at this point

[tall torrent]

I think stance is at best equal

[austere mica]

golden toughness nerf next update PLEASE

[orchid hemlock]

It's coming after the Psyker nerfs 😈

[tall torrent]

Nah there’re bigger priorities

[austere mica]

We need at least 1 thing off the list

[tall torrent]

Yea psyker

And ranged hvs

[austere mica]

You're only getting one of those

And we both know which one

[tall torrent]

Ok psyker

Tho I personally want more weapon buffs than class nerfs tbh

[austere mica]

Whats your manifesto for weapon buffs look like

[tall torrent]

Falchion
Infantry lasgun
Chain weapons (all)
Thunder hammer

[atomic void]

give big thundie power surge but make it 10x stronger

[tall torrent]

I finished both power sword and falchion atk info actually

U can check it for urself, falchion is rly just way worse lol

Less finesse, worse ADM, and u can’t have every attack be energized, and the regular attacks are ass

I think falchion could be much cooler if the push attacks used heavy atk profiles

[forest lagoon]

No

[orchid hemlock]

Yes

[forest lagoon]

no.

which one is better between marksman focus and focus target

[tall torrent]

No. It’s better

It’s x% damage taken

Which is multiplicative at the end

[tall torrent]

Majority of the time it’s focus target

MF’s pathing holds it back a lot

[forest lagoon]

Cool

[orchid hemlock]

Weapon Specialist

[forest lagoon]

I'm not using weapon specialist.

[mortal horizon]

is this considered like the meta or best way to run recon las? or just your version?
trying it now, i still like the idea of shout + focus target instead of exe/WS but imma try it with the tac axe like you have it

[gilded wraith]

On the Slayer build (double barrel/WS), do you normally shoot once or twice between melee? (Is the dps from the second shot worth the reduced chance of crit on the second shot?)

[mortal horizon]

just depends, sometimes im shooting once and back to melee, sometimes twice, for me its just a feel thing

[orchid hemlock]

This is specifically for XII

XII is objectively worse than VIc

Except if you use it the way I do

[mental barn]

what makes your usage of it better than the VIc? I have done a bunch of testing and to me XII seems superior in dps but maybe it is because we use it similarly

[mortal horizon]

i thought XII was the best, huh? why is it objectivly worse?

when i run my version with focus target + shout, i run the XII and its always felt best

[mental barn]

I know VIc has better movement while you are firing so maybe that is what he means? I still prefer the XII though

[mortal horizon]

same

[mental barn]

and I tested dps vs crusher in the meat grinder, XII comes out ahead with dumdum infernus and onslaught perk

[mortal horizon]

i personally dont even run onslaught

i can melee/grenade the crushers

but it is nice to have

[hollow ibex]

lower dps, worse ergonomics than mkvi

[orchid hemlock]

VIc just on the stats has the best ammo econ, best DPS, best swap speed

[mental barn]

I get the ergo argument, but not the dps argument. XII has higher dps when used with infernus and dumdum (and onslaught if fighting carapace) due to applying per hit scaling effects much faster.

What am I missing?

[orchid hemlock]

Can you prove that DPS is better?

[mental barn]

Yes I can

[orchid hemlock]

Go ahead

[mental barn]

Let me relaunch the game

alright so I am walking up to the highest HP elite in the game (Crusher), kneeling down and firing at his crotch (since if i fire at torso he sometimes pushes his head into the fire line and i dont want headshots) I will start witht he XII

[hollow ibex]

crusher

why the fuck are we shooting at crushers with recon las

🤦‍♂️

[orchid hemlock]

If you are using onslaught on a crusher

Yeah XII will be better

But do a control test on a target without onslaught

[mental barn]

what else do you want me to shoot at

that shows actualk dps in meat grinder

[hollow ibex]

and yeah that test will heavily favor XII for very very very obvious reasons

[mental barn]

yeah sure

let me dps a fucking 100 hp zombie

[orchid hemlock]

I mean you telling me you unironically shoot crushers kind makes me uninterested in this all of the sudden 🛌🏻

[mental barn]

against which xii is also better btw

lol

you tell me

what do you want me to test it on

[orchid hemlock]

Idk, just don't use onslaught

I'm talking about raw damage

[mental barn]

why would I not use the best perk for this gun????

[hollow ibex]

onslaught is a meme talent anyway

no serious build takes it

[mental barn]

ok sure

[livid crystal]

Trust it’ll die

[hollow ibex]

eventually yes

https://tenor.com/view/redd-foxx-fred-sanford-and-gif-13040657

[mental barn]

it dies in about 1.5 sec

[livid crystal]

Exactly 😩

[mental barn]

but sure I can shoot other stuff

[orchid hemlock]

XII likes onslaught yes

But it isn't a control test if you are shooting at a crushers with both guns if you use it

[mental barn]

I asked you what you want me to fire at

I just did a test vs unyielding

they just both show 4000 so something is off, let me find another target

[hollow ibex]

i tested vs. bosses

last time i checked

[mental barn]

ok let me do mauler in the back that shows damage numbers properly and is unyielding

[orchid hemlock]

Mauler is not unyielding

[mental barn]

the ogryn witht he shield whatever the name is

[orchid hemlock]

Ok sure shoot it in the head

[mental barn]

i am shooting int he back since the head swings around and i cant guarentee 100% hitrate

3259 -3570 is the range i get with VIc

it seems images are haram here or something, can't paste it in

anyway, i am switching to Xii

first test with XII 3409, second test 3807

[orchid hemlock]

Or the body it shouldn't matter

[mental barn]

third test 3810

[orchid hemlock]

With onslaught?

[mental barn]

fourth test 3803

[hollow ibex]

mkvi vs. mkxii

[mental barn]

yes, both guns have it.

[hollow ibex]

back of a crusher

[orchid hemlock]

Also I'm confused how you are getting 3800 dps

[mental barn]

would you like me to stream it

[hollow ibex]

mk12 vs. mk6, back of a reaper, flak

[orchid hemlock]

Are you actually giving me the correct information?

I'm asking for DPS

Not the total damage

[hollow ibex]

i'm testing with no talents

[mental barn]

yes

[orchid hemlock]

With no talents?

No onslaught?

[mental barn]

with full talents onslaught

[orchid hemlock]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[mental barn]

I am now taking off oinslaught and testing again

[hollow ibex]

"ah yes let me do a dps test with a talent that clearly favors one gun over another"

[mental barn]

but honestly 0 talents is like saying "Psycher should just spam grenades becauise the staffs are useless"

like yeah, they are, with 0 talents they are

[hollow ibex]

no?

i'm testing with no talents so i can control for the variable we actually care about: the gun's dps

basic scientific method that they teach you in middle school

onslaught completely invalidates any dps results you just got

[orchid hemlock]

I literally said that XII needs onslaught to compete with VIc

My original argument is that VIc is better than XII in every other scenario

[hollow ibex]

mk xii vs. mk6 flak

so seems like mk xii does have a slight advantage in flak, while mk vi has the advantage in unyielding

[orchid hemlock]

I literally posted this build:

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c9abbca-ad8e-424c-8780-11409eba0097/funny-laser-pointer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[mental barn]

yes and I literally asked in what situation VIc is better

and instead of saying "when you don't take onslaught"

i get this bullshit about "dps higher"

when literally with YOUR build

that is being dfiscussed

it is NOT

and then this rando is talking about middleschool here...

but ok, I get it, so basically no onslaught means that vs unyiwlding and presumably other unarmored scenarios VIc is better

[hollow ibex]

re-tested against reaper flak and (mk 12 is first number)

[mental barn]

and it also of course has the better mboility, that's cool

[hollow ibex]

yeah, need me to explain anything?

the dps results are honestly too close to tell

one crit is prob enough to throw off the results

[mental barn]

Anyway, one interesting aspect of this is actual bosses

[orchid hemlock]

Yes the DPS is always higher without onslaught

Which means instead of wasting points on it, you can get other ones for more damage:

It becomes a different build

[mental barn]

onslaught saves 2 point realistically because skirmisher is really good

i see you also still have it

let me do a test vs flak

[hollow ibex]

in what world does onslaught save you points 💀

[mental barn]

can I just mute this guy....

Obviously I am talking aboiut NOT taking onslaught saving 2 points

[hollow ibex]

what?

you literally just said "onslaught saves 2 point realistically because skirmisher is really good"

[mental barn]

my argument was that it doesn't save more than that because skirmisher is still worth taking

and it is close-ish, so NOT taking onslaught means 2 points going elsewhere

2 points is good of course

[orchid hemlock]

So you say that talents are important to maximize the damage of the weapon

So why don't you apply that logic to the VIc as well?

[hollow ibex]

ok, well thanks for clarifying because that was absolutely not what i took away from the previous message

[mental barn]

yes I have noticed, what you take away is always whatever you can use to be a dick

it is not very nice

anyway, Of course Orcka, What would you like me to test

[hollow ibex]

well my fucking bad for not being able to read your mind

when your message is unclear lol

[orchid hemlock]

I don't think this guy is arguing in bad faith tbh

[mental barn]

btw even with Onslaught (lets parkt he argument for a second) i do really wonder about the boss damage, because with bosses there is a smaller percentage of time spent stacking up the onslaught

so even onslaught VIc might be better there than XII

[orchid hemlock]

You seem to be very unreasonable and are trying to deflect criticism and assume Ill intent by the person you are talking to

[hollow ibex]

onslaught doesn't help with bosses much

[mental barn]

I just struggle to get bosses to display dps in meat grinder :/

[hybrid plover]

I'll tell you this.

[hollow ibex]

onslaught is almost entirely for crushers

[hybrid plover]

It doesn't help that much.

[hollow ibex]

the two use cases of onslaught are (a) recon las mkxii vs. crushers and (b) vraks IAG vs. crushers

and both of them are meme-tier

[hybrid plover]

Any sort of rending/brittleness doesn't get too much mileage on bosses.

It helps.

[mental barn]

because of recharging shields?

[orchid hemlock]

Onslaught to me is just a general damage buff for XII

but it isn't amazing into bosses to begin with

Onslaught for bosses mostly is just a support tool for the rest of the team to do more damage

[hybrid plover]

But not worth focusing on it.

[hybrid plover]

Not even talking about captains or twins

[hollow ibex]

because the brittleness doesn't make much of a difference due to most guns already having high unyielding ADMs

[mental barn]

ah I get it

[hollow ibex]

most guns have terrible carapace ADMs

so brittleness does help there

[hybrid plover]

In general it just doesn't do much because the ADMs for unyielding in most cases aren't really all that detrimental to begin with

There's only a select few weapons that have really bad unyielding ADMs innately

Such as shock maul or shovels

[hollow ibex]

honestly i can't recall what ranged weapons

have bad unyielding

what guns

[hybrid plover]

Errr...

Uhhh

[hollow ibex]

yeah i'm drawing a blank

some melees have terrible unyielding

[hybrid plover]

I honestly don't think there's really any ranged weapon that has a particularly bad unyielding ADM

Even plasma, not being a very good option into unyielding, doesn't have a bad ADM.

It just isn't very efficient for it.

[hollow ibex]

yeah some guns just aren't efficient vs. unyielding

in a way that onslaught can't help with whatsoever

[mental barn]

it does actually help the VIc quite a bit vs unyielding in the back btw, 3560-3860-ish with onslaught, 2970 - 3380 without, so the question is whether I can get 15% to 20% in damage boost from another node

or another 2 nodes provided I can also pick up the equivalent of 25 toughness

this is on VIc with every other node unchanged

[forest lagoon]

I tried the plasma gun

[mental barn]

and I just tested, you are right that VIc outdamages XII on unyielding WITHOUT onslaught, just redid this test with the Xii and got around 3000-ish dps on the same target from same angle without onslaught

[forest lagoon]

absolutely fucking hate the thing

horrible feeling gun

[narrow frost]

the delay to shoot feels awful, I can't have fun with the gun

[sharp epoch]

yeah buff plasma please

[forest lagoon]

I don't mind the charge up

it's just like shooting a cardboard box full of crockery

it's clunky

[mystic pilot]

How would you improve chain weapons? They arent known for being great at piercing armor. More cleave?

[tall torrent]

improve saw-rip attacks' first target damage & stagger, as well as unyielding & carapace ADM
add a small explosion that does only stagger (no dmg) when the player performs a saw-rip attack, with enough stagger to light stagger mauler and both ragers

[hollow ibex]

that'd be pretty sick, which means it'll never happen

[turbid ibex]

by saw-rip do you mean just revved attacks or is it also stuff like the chaxe strikedowns

[turbid ibex]

also what specifically would you improve on the ilas

[hybrid plover]

Ahem. Visual recoil.

Why the fuck does a laser kick more visually, than a revolver?

[turbid ibex]

i imagine he has more things in mind than just that but yes

[tall torrent]

increase base damage:

• IIb from lerp{100, 200} = 165 to lerp{120, 220} = 185
• IX from lerp{175, 350} = 288.75 to lerp{200, 400} = 330

increase flak ADM from 48.96~60.92% to 72.77~88.4% for all variants (this is calculated as lerp of ADMs from the stopping power stat at 80%)
increase crit chance from +5% to +10% for all variants
add raycast radius of 0.03 for all variants (same value as the buffed Vigilant Autogun IX)
reduce IIb's crit muzzle flash

it's ~12% dmg increase to IIb and ~14% dmg increase to IX
with a big boost to flak ADM (still weak vs flak but not disastrously bad)
raycast radius increase to 0.03 should make hitting headshots easier and feel better
5% more crit chance makes crit builds slightly better without being overboard

[wild vortex]

how much time have you spent theorycrafting ideal buffs like this...

[tall torrent]

this took me like 30 seconds

because I had the numbers done earlier

[wild vortex]

I don't know whether to be impressed or terrified

this is like world-conquering levels of autism

[tall torrent]

it's not hard to see what the weapon lacks when u can see their numbers

48.96~60.92% flak ADM is abysmal

I been updating the guide to include more details

[wild vortex]

ok Alexander of Macedon

[tall torrent]

almost all the ranged weapons now are in this format

did ranged first cuz they have fewer attacks to write abt

I also wrote a java program to calculate lerp values for me

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[slender elm]

Whats lerp

[tall torrent]

linear interpolation

[slender elm]

Ok

I'm still undecided if I prefer mark 3 or 15 evis

Mark 3 has a more flexible light combo

Mark 15 clears hordes extremely fast but the heavies are so sluggish

[dry cloak]

Mk15 is literally executioner sword from vt2 moveset wise

[slender elm]

Indeed

And I really hated that

[dry cloak]

I love that

Then stick to mk3

[slender elm]

Dont remember exactly why, guess its just difficult to avoid getting hit

In dt im unsure

[dry cloak]

Im used to mk15

So i wont be chnlanging it

[slender elm]

I'm just light spamming mostly on mk3

[dry cloak]

Same with other chains weapons

You like one mark and stick with it

[slender elm]

I struggle with avoiding damage on chain weapons...

On vet at least

[dry cloak]

Common problem

[slender elm]

These days I just play axes

[dry cloak]

Well once you get stuck in the sawing animation it can be tricky

[slender elm]

Or hsword

[dry cloak]

Hsword good

[slender elm]

Cleave for days

[dry cloak]

Yup

I dont like mk9

I run a og hs mk6 on zealot

And mk7 on both vet and psyker

[turbid ibex]

Neat

[hybrid pulsar]

hey guys

for hell bron lazgun

whats the dumbstat?

[tame lodge]

Stability

[dry cloak]

ammo or stability

[hybrid pulsar]

why stability?

its a precision weapon

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/lebron-james-gif-25405226

[dry cloak]

it shoots so slow it resets

[hybrid pulsar]

shouldnt you be prio accuracy

[tame lodge]

Because it does nothing for Helbore

[wild vortex]

guys

[tame lodge]

[wild vortex]

I need advice on how to legitimately git gud and get ASS

[tame lodge]

Weapon so stable it spawn horses

[dry cloak]

first

[hybrid plover]

Here's my advice.

[dry cloak]

get havoc forged

[hybrid plover]

Forget it exists.

[wild vortex]

like, technically I have 700 hrs in the game but it's spread across bursts of play so I don't retain whatever skill I have

[hybrid pulsar]

whats the best mark for the hell born laz gun?

[dry cloak]

then you may be ass

[hybrid plover]

Just play the game.

[dry cloak]

there isnt one

its power speed tradeoff

mk5 is fast

mk3a is midlle

[wild vortex]

are you telling me Havoc is easier than maelstroms

[dry cloak]

mk4 is hits hard

[wild vortex]

I haven't played havoc in actual months

[dry cloak]

i got havoc forged before ass

[hybrid pulsar]

thank you

[wild vortex]

that's.. fair, I guess. But I genuinely do want to get better

[dry cloak]

first return to the game

[hybrid plover]

And that comes with just playing the game.

[dry cloak]

preferably on your main

once you are comfy

[wild vortex]

I don't like "maining" one character even though I know it's technically more beneficial

[dry cloak]

get a team ot lfg channels here

[wild vortex]

because I only play an hour or two a day at max so I just play what I feel like playing that day

[dry cloak]

and then go ham

[wild vortex]

(except Zealot)

[dry cloak]

i cant really switch classes in one day without pause

like i can switch from oggy to arby to zealot

[wild vortex]

I can literally bounce from Ogryn to Scum

[dry cloak]

but oggy to psyker is bad idea for me

but vet psyker scum is good now

[wild vortex]

that said playing Ogryn these days is kind of a coin toss between depressing and power fantasy

[tall torrent]

get poxbreaker instead, way cooler sounding title

[wild vortex]

I mean I'll get that eventually anyway, but it's far off. I think I'm at ~440k kills?

[tall torrent]

yea just play normally and u get it

auric storm survivor is rly watever

[wild vortex]

I will never understand why a 400lb abhuman with enormous lungs and excellent musculature has leagues worse stamina management than a fucking methhead

[tall torrent]

u could just

wait for 5 maelstrom maps that don't have barrel-off-map

and play arb

[wild vortex]

I feel like I don't have enough team utility as Arb and I definitely don't have the skill to solo carry

[dry cloak]

methheads have disabled body limiting features

like literally

[tall torrent]

wat region are u in

[wild vortex]

NA

I used to bounce off this game around every couple months to play PoE but life circumstances rn almost guarantee that I won't be playing PoE again, so I'll probably be on Darktide pretty regular. So thought I'd get a little serious about improving

[dry cloak]

why you wont you playing poe again?

[wild vortex]

son is over a year old, takes a lot of time and energy to handle, alongside usual adulting

[tall torrent]

add me maybe we can play together

[wild vortex]

PoE is just too much time commitment in a burst to properly "enjoy" for me rn

[dry cloak]

good good

addiction will go away

i dont like mmo type games much

[wild vortex]

once you've done the whole MB/Prog/Nimis-every-league shit, it's not as fun to slog through shabby hobo gear

[wild vortex]

will do thank you

but yeah Darktide just lets me put in an hour or two and log off without feeling like I'm shafting myself

[dry cloak]

idk how much you like driving games

but snowrunner is a game like that

[hybrid pulsar]

hey guys

[dry cloak]

same with rimworld

[wild vortex]

I think the last driving game I played was NFS Underground

[hybrid pulsar]

whats the different between the marks of the tactile axes

trying to use them for my sniper build

[dry cloak]

mk3 shockmaul very dependable

[hybrid pulsar]

i will consider it , but i dont have that unlocked yet

[dry cloak]

shockmaul unlocks fast

just learn the combos

[hybrid pulsar]

alr ill grind for it

[dry cloak]

heavy sword or even chain sword are good sidearms for sniper

i simply used mk3 smaul the most

[hybrid pulsar]

are axes that bad?

the tactile axe i mean

[tame lodge]

Nah all axes are good

Oh you mean tactical Axe

[hybrid pulsar]

yeah

[tame lodge]

Yeah they are shit
(Better than I give them credit for)

[dry cloak]

tac axes shine on melee builds

[tame lodge]

They are pretty safe

Pretty fast

[wild vortex]

can also consider mk1 shovel, I'm a huge fan of it on my shooty mcshootface build

[tame lodge]

Pack a punch

[dry cloak]

be it zealot et or psyker

[dry tundra]

Made a new vet character, what's the most cadian build? +weapons and cosmetics (f2p)

[tall torrent]

moveset difference, best one is VII

[wild vortex]

this game's performance, or lack thereof, needs to be studied

[distant mural]

Thats like 90% of games these days

[wild vortex]

I think a cheesse grater is probably less leaky

[distant mural]

Its like performance is optional when they make em

Just buy a nasa computer or something u broke peasant.

[tall torrent]

hav u tried dlss4.5

[hybrid pulsar]

Why

[hybrid pulsar]

Why do they keep tryin to make them worse and worse

Like no one needs to see the high fidelity of my characters ass sweat

[distant mural]

There was once an episode on game one about a game being a graphic whore. Wich basically means a game lures u in with its good looks but is a bug ridden unoptimized disgusting whore underneath.

[wild vortex]

that's two games back to back I've seen ASS/True Survivor Zealots die in the first quarter of a 2veg maelstrom

[hollow ibex]

well can't blame the ASS players for misrepresenting their abilities...

[south river]

I died almost immediately in an auric mael with havoc forged title on as my Ogryn B)

[wild vortex]

tonight is amateur hour it feels like

god I'm logging off

[inland cobalt]

The Mk.VII Tactical Axe is good, but your build lowkey requires some talent points put into the right keystone branch in order to perform well
And by that, I mean it's dependent on crit chance

[hybrid pulsar]

Yeah I was following the build from the guide

Though I’m realizing that in later difficulties

I just can’t punch through

With the hellborn

The shaff keep blocking the special gunners

[inland cobalt]

I dunno, the Lucius Mk.III does well enough for me

Frag Grenades for chaff. Quite literally spam that bitch

[hybrid pulsar]

Isn’t shredder better?

[inland cobalt]

I did say Frag Grenades, not Krak Grenades

It's in the name

Shredder Frag Grenades

Anyway

My point is the Mk.VII Tac Axe does well in the guide build
But in an Auric/Havoc sniper build that maximises ranged damage? Not so much. At least, not in my experience. I might be delusional

Which is why I myself am looking for a melee weapon that would suit it
Definitely not the Dueling Sword or the Power Sword. I DESPISE those things

[hybrid pulsar]

Why?

[inland cobalt]

To me, the Power Sword feels slow and sluggish, especially when you hit the power-up button - I can't move AT ALL

And the Dueling Sword is just... yucky

[tame flume]

same

[lyric path]

when will fat shark buff the power falchion i wonder

[dry cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/soon-tm-soon-space-gif-23401891

[midnight galleon]

happens

some days you are god

other days...You die first minute in Clandestum Gloriana LUL

[south spindle]

Based, Shovel has the best moveset in the game, might not be the strongest weapon, but the moveset is incredible

[unreal nova]

Bonk bonk bonk.

[south spindle]

Its more like; "Plunk, plunk plunk"

[vestal lotus]

Am I being a dumb for being so focused on shanking the specialists I see in the back?

With the lil combat knife

[dry cloak]

a bit

sgoot them if you can

unless they are in your face

[vestal lotus]

I do if I am out of ranged, but 2/3 times I just fumble to switch to my ranged and get blasted by a gunner

Using Infiltrate to get behind them and give em the london special

[vestal lotus]

One does have to being missing some brain when I go behind the lines of the enemy

[dry cloak]

nothing wrong with that

but using shotguns is preferable

[vestal lotus]

Ive been using a braced Bc hordes. But... a shotgun may be preferable

[dry cloak]

brautos are trash mates

until you are using them on scum that is

[vestal lotus]

Ah lol

[dry cloak]

and even then i prefer the uzis

when it comes to shotgun on vet

db, agripinna and zarona are your choices

accatran combat shotgun aint the best

[vestal lotus]

got it

[dry cloak]

for blessings theres the guide in the pins

[silver patrol]

using them on scum really made me think

"why am i not using the vraks again?"

[dry cloak]

i am not using vraks because its boring as fuck

[silver patrol]

they really should up the firerate on the fast firing one

[dry cloak]

it already jumps from 667 to 900 iirc

when bracing

[silver patrol]

no, if you brace it, it fires as fast as the vraks

[dry cloak]

you know both iag and brauto have vraks mark

[silver patrol]

the good vraks

[tame granite]

maybe there's an engine/netcode thing with increasing fire rate beyond that

[dry cloak]

uzis can hit over 1k

[tame granite]

I know DRG has a hard fire rate cap because if you go above it bullets start randomly despawning / not registering

[dry cloak]

like if i want to use most basic weapons

its gonna be on vet

[vestal lotus]

What am trying to do ain't apparently a good build lol

[dry cloak]

show it

copy it on gameslantern

and send the link

[vestal lotus]

Workin on it

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a108031c-da08-4829-8a3c-805cae6879d5/shanker I only got 2 curios and dont mind the guns stats. They just what I have rn.

[dry cloak]

yeaqh no wonder its trash

[silver patrol]

i wouldn't worry too much about what you are using if you are not even lv 30

but the brauto is also kinda shit itself

[vestal lotus]

Thats what I am prematurely taking care of

[dry cloak]

that how it should look imo

grenades are interchangeable

[silver patrol]

tactical reload is a meme unfortunately

[dry cloak]

works well with combat shotties though

[vestal lotus]

Changed the braced for a double shot

[dry cloak]

double barrel

range aint the best

but crits with manstopper are devastating

[vestal lotus]

But eh, I'm in their backs and probably aiming at a group of specialists

[dry cloak]

and dont sweat about shooting father away

shotguns have a mechanic called minium pellet count

[dry cloak]

with manstopper you can delete hordes at cost of 2 ammo

[vestal lotus]

And they don't disappear a few meters away?

[dry cloak]

nope

[vestal lotus]

Nice

[dry cloak]

shotguns behave more akin to real life than video games

[vestal lotus]

Good

[dry cloak]

except accatran

[vestal lotus]

Anyways I'ma try it

[dry cloak]

aye cool

[sterile garnet]

its true

my benelli m4 has a minimum pellet count of 5

[vestal lotus]

I absolutely felt the difference between this new build and the last one

[dry cloak]

cool

[vestal lotus]

... Just sharing

[dry cloak]

yes

now play the game

have fun

[silver patrol]

Do not have fun

[sterile garnet]

if i catch anybody having fun in my darktide, i will have to contact mods. fair warning.

[mystic pilot]

technically you need one more point because if you pick krak or shreder you need one more point to keep the same path

or just move the point from movement speed to toughness point to keep the same path

[steep flower]

I really hope Iron Will gets picked

[hollow ibex]

don't need it if you simply never get hit

[faint beacon]

Throwing if you pick it

Absolutely throwing smh

[final charm]

GL Those shotguns kinda smell

[dry cloak]

who tf are you

combat shotties are good

[foggy linden]

I have tried but I feel the only really solid perk is VOC what’s yall success with infiltrate or executioner stance

i have only been playing for a little while

so maybe it’s just me

[dry cloak]

exe stance is good for sniping

and infiltrate is considered bad

[final charm]

the double barrel and the arbitrators are how you make a good shotgun

[dry cloak]

some people like it and run it

[dry cloak]

yes and best shotgun in the game is agrippina combat shotgun

get your facts straight

if you dont believe me check vet guide in the pins

[foggy linden]

I really wanted to make infiltrate work because it sounds cool but I feel it’s kinda selfish compared to VOC

just not sure how

[final charm]

what facts

[dry cloak]

what difficulty you at

[foggy linden]

auric

[dry cloak]

that you are fucking wrong

[foggy linden]

gonna try havoc soon

[final charm]

Why so aggressive

[faint beacon]

The Agri Combat Shotgun consistently clears H40 on all classes btw

It’s that solid

[dry cloak]

use infiltrate if you want, try to not use it selfishly. use it for picking up teammates and doing objectives

[foggy linden]

ah ok 👍

[faint beacon]

Or if toughness gets broken

[dry cloak]

yup that too

[faint beacon]

But try to immediately re-ammerge so you don’t agro dump on someone

[foggy linden]

I love voice of command tbh so I am not mad I just wanted to try different stuff you know

[dry cloak]

we here know that voc is broken as fuck

a lot of people want it nerfed

[foggy linden]

it’s sooo good 😭

it’s hard not to want to just use that lol

[dry cloak]

its simple change to piss toughness would make it a lot worse

that being not being able to refill it without another activation of voc or zealots book

[foggy linden]

lowkey tho I feel that if VOC was nerfed it would kinda fuck the class no ? because the other two are kinda cheeks imo

granted yall likely have more experience

so maybe i am wrong

[dry cloak]

then you havent played with exe stance enough

[faint beacon]

I’m still of the strong opinion it should just give a global high DR buff on activation

So you still take chip damage

[foggy linden]

it’s that good ??

damn I should try it

[dry cloak]

with proper guns

[final charm]

least unhinged dt player when you insult their favorite shogun

[dry cloak]

yes

[foggy linden]

I pretty much only use the revolver tbh it feels soooo good

maybe exc stance on that

would be tasty

[faint beacon]

Exe stance is good even without weapons dedicated to it

[dry cloak]

broaden your horizons

that too

[faint beacon]

Cause you’re generating 10% total toughness every like what second?

So you only need it up for a moment

[foggy linden]

I love mercing all elites and stuff in one shot it’s legit addicting lmao

[dry cloak]

revolvers fine

but learning other weapons is good

[foggy linden]

I have heard plas gun is amazing I just hate the charge mechanic

[faint beacon]

Vigilants

[dry cloak]

plasma gun is trash imo

[faint beacon]

Columnus III is a top 5 Vet weapon

[dry cloak]

bolter is better

mk 2b to be exact

[faint beacon]

Explosive one is cool but the 2b is generally better on Vet

[dry cloak]

yup

[faint beacon]

3 is better on zealot

[dry cloak]

mk3 is better on arby imo

[faint beacon]

Stagger bonuses I assume

[dry cloak]

yup

also i dont use bolter on zealot

[faint beacon]

Figures

[dry cloak]

doesnt fit my character really

[unreal nova]

Funni melee vet with it.

[turbid ibex]

it already got double nerfed recently with the vet rework

[faint beacon]

It addressed the bigger issue

[turbid ibex]

yeah

[faint beacon]

That being Tac Aware was op

[turbid ibex]

just pointing out that it was already nerfed and its still a strong ability

though a bit lame for me

i kinda wish it worked like scum box as a team buffing ability but what can you do

[foggy linden]

another gun I have always wanted to try is actually the vigilant auto lowkey

[dry cloak]

dmrs

agrippina is 2rd burst

columnus is 3rd burst

graia is single shot

[faint beacon]

Agri and Column are roughly equals

I’d say side grades

[foggy linden]

oh ok the one I used was a single shot and that thing hit like a tank

the other marks are different firing modes that’s actually cool

[faint beacon]

Graia is the single shot it’s good but it’s “the worst” of them solely cause of its ammo economy

Agri suffers a similar fate but it has a really good Cara ADM to make up for it

Columnus though has a really good ammo economy

[mystic pilot]

bomber build use it

because the damage bonus apply to the shredder grenades

of course it mean you need bolt pistol to buff the grenades as well and a melee weapon on armored enemies

[mortal horizon]

i just tested on a h40 chaos spawn, but i was aiming head (i would in game, why not in test?)

and the VLc was 4-5 seconds faster on the kill, i was surprised

[hollow ibex]

yeah i don't think the DPS difference really matters too much, the real issue with XII for me is the ergonomics

[tall torrent]

Because VIc has higher unyielding ADM up close

[silver patrol]

what

why

i thought vigs had inversed damage falloff

[dry cloak]

I think thats only the case for inflas

[faint beacon]

They don’t

Basically best way to look at it

Laser = Reverse
Ballistic = normal fall off

[silver patrol]

I don't think any las except the infantry and helbore do

[hollow ibex]

i hate vigilants

🤮

[unreal nova]

Recon has normal falloff.

[mortal horizon]

ya i just tried a game with the Vlc and it felt ok, pretty good, idk if it was better? but it was only an AM with my buddies not havoc so

i really like shout + focus target tho

[hollow ibex]

i dislike the slower reload on XII, and really dislike the slowdown on firing

[mortal horizon]

it just gives a great balance of safety and dmg as well as team dmg

but the executioners stance + WS version orcka posted felt ok too

[unreal nova]

VIc is better than XII in nearly every way for most parts. Unless you just want to kill with rng burn.

[void dragon]

Or you want brittleness to make your Heavy sword do real damage on crushers

[unreal nova]

You can just shoot the face with VIc then poke poke.

[turbid ibex]

you can also throw a krak

[void dragon]

I mean, I can also use a shovel

[unreal nova]

Not when one has frags.

[mortal horizon]

tbf vlc still stacks it pretty quick, yes slower but they both fire very quick overall

how do you guys feel about VOC + focus target vs exe stance + WS versions of the build for the recon las's?

[void dragon]

I haven't used Exe stance with R.lasguns, feels that they have enough ammo and precision to be designated disbler hunter almost exclusively doing gunning, so the utility of shout feels more important, keystone depends of what melee you use but more support styles would probably favour focus target to bring bosses down

[void dragon]

Can I ask specifics on that? I feel the XII runs lower on ammo a little less than the VIc (probably because the burning is aiding the ammo economy?) but would like to be sure on the differences

[mortal horizon]

i agree typically, which is why i run the shout/focus target version i posted yesterday usually

i DID just practice on 5 crushers in a mixed horde with creature spawner, with orcka's version using exe stance, stacking onslaught and staggering the crushers with the special on the tac axe. 5 crushers and 50 + mixed groaners/poxies/bruisers

and it was very easy to duel that setup with no grenades, and not having shout (used only my 2 weapons and exe stance)

took 0 dmg doing it 3 times

so i mean, in a real game will be a lot more pressure that shout helps with

but i WAS surprised at the builds ability to hold its own in mixed melee/ranged without shout, and simulating out of grenades

[void dragon]

Man is there a place where Taxe ISNT a goated pick? The weapon feels stupidly versatile and strong

[mortal horizon]

ya its very good rn

its boss dmg is meh i guess?

i mean its ok

but you have a recon las and krak grenades so

its not the tax axes job here anyway

[void dragon]

If you crit all the overhead strikes you NUKE crushers

[mortal horizon]

its crusher ttk isnt amazing outright tho without a good crit chain, but combined with stacking onslaught, and how safe it is having basically the old dueling sword special on it - its very good vs them still

[void dragon]

It's TTK crushers is quite good if you are criting

[mortal horizon]

its 'good enough' and pushes into 'good' territory when you stack the buffs available on vet, and count in the safety of its special

as a total package the weapon pushes into 'great' / 'meta' for sure bc of its lack of hard downsides

[void dragon]

And then you have Dclaw struggling to clean flak swarms while crying in a corner

[unreal nova]

Naw, VIc kills faster to the point it's the most ammo efficient.

Unless you can't aim or are straight up shooting hordes.

[void dragon]

That first means it has better weak spot damage values then?

[unreal nova]

It just shreds faster. You can test it out.

[void dragon]

I think I sometimes default to shoot into the torso, too much memory of shooting the heart

[unreal nova]

I only go by feel.

[tall torrent]

recon lasgun dmg profile

[void dragon]

Same tbh

[void dragon]

That slightly better maniac damage I have felt from time to time shooting ragers and some muties

[tall torrent]

not maniac, unyielding

[unreal nova]

Personally, VIc is just more ammo efficient, but others may disagree.

[void dragon]

Second is unyielding?

[tall torrent]

second is maniac

but up close no ADM difference

it's only after 10m where it starts falloff that VIc pulls ahead a lot

VIc also has best unyielding ADM up close

[void dragon]

Yeah I want my ragers WAY AWAYfrom fragile ole me

[hollow ibex]

oof that maniac dropoff

[void dragon]

Indeed

[hollow ibex]

another VIc win

[tall torrent]

I don't rly like recon personally

[unreal nova]

Which is funny when magdumping into something (monstrosities) that decided to aggro you.

[tall torrent]

infantry autogun, for comparison

[hollow ibex]

that vraks unyielding dropoff

oof

[void dragon]

"I will melee you, WITH MY GUN!"

[mortal horizon]

infernus is still worth it on VLc, or should i drop it for another dmg blessing?

[hollow ibex]

still worth

[mortal horizon]

ok, i may test out headhunter, is it less overall damage increase though?

[unreal nova]

Less unless maybe the brown mark. Then is a more viable pickup maybe.

[mortal horizon]

brown mark? you mean focus target?

[hollow ibex]

i rate infernus highly not just for the additional dps

fire DOT is very powerful when you need to just keep dealing damage to bosses

or at range where recon las struggles

or against bulwarks

[mystic pilot]

orange rarity and 500 lvl are the maximum for the weapons right?

[unreal nova]

The third recon mark. Blue is fast, green is middle, brown is the last one.

I can't remember the mark number for that one.

It just looks brown to me.

Some say red, so maybe that is easier for you to understand?

[maiden hollow]

Picked the game back up after a hiatus recently, went from Gamepass to Steam version. Obviously lost my penance progress and that's fine. Trying to get On Overwatch done and want a few clarifications. What exactly counts as melee damage? I know it has to hit my health not toughness. Have they not patched out the trick where I can just hang off the map at the start? If I spawn into a match part of the way through and I already have health missing does that count? Sorry this is a lot its just been eluding me.

[unreal nova]

Getting directly hit by muties and dogs is a fail.

Grabs as well for cs.

Not sure by Blurgle.

[maiden hollow]

Yeah I noticed they just do health damage through toughness

[unreal nova]

All standard melee and overheads count.

If they damage hp.

Best to try for a no damage run to make life easier.

[maiden hollow]

Yeah, I could have sworn back then that barrels or poxburster explosions also counted but I may be hallucinating that

[unreal nova]

Bursters might.

Barrels, likely not. Best stay away anyway.

[maiden hollow]

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification

[unreal nova]

You don't want to fly into a horde.

I will suggest high mobility weapons or just god parry stuff and shout tbh.

Unless you want to cheese it.

[thorn lark]

@tall torrent have you heard about mr e last video?

[turbid ibex]

Power sword not at the top of the tierlist already makes this hella wrong

[orchid hemlock]

Thanks I hate it

Bonesaw being "best in class" proves that he is getting carried by fanboys

[austere mica]

ps6 and crusher in ehhh

Die

[thorn lark]

the competitive dclaw is the mk1

[austere mica]

Shock mauls above obscurus

[thorn lark]

BECAUSE GOOD MOVESET

other dclaw? BAD MOVESET

and antax? only good for malice

rashad? heavies good but other weapons can do the same

and lights kinda mid

wthf

[orchid hemlock]

He isn't using BM

Truly one of our greatest

[hybrid plover]

can we like

stop overvaluing the dueling sword already

[mortal horizon]

ya, ps6 is def way better than he says, but i DO think its shitty mobility/dodges hold it back a lot, i personally hate using it even if its strong

[wild vortex]

Is Mr Pee back with his shit takes again

Imagine putting crowbar over boxcutters, or mk19 shovel over mk3

I wish i could get such drugs

[mortal horizon]

does he have the 6 lower than the other model for Power sword? i cant tell from image which is which lol

[thorn lark]

tbh, once you start using the psyker fgs as a melee weapon, the psword feels very nimble

[mortal horizon]

i love the fgs and do better with it than psword tbh lol

but i do use pwsword, and recognize its strength

fucking deletes stuff

just HATE playing it in h40 and having to clutch

or being pressed in a corner

its very hard to get out of stuff/clutch with imo

[thorn lark]

that I can understand, I feel safer to clutch with a taxe or dclaw

[mortal horizon]

bonesaw is a very strong weapon, have you seen its killtimes from reginalds spreadsheets? im not sure i disagee with it at all being in "a" tier (if you consider best in game, 'S")

@wild vortex as far as box cutters, you mean the alternative shiv model? I havent used them much, are they better than the crowbar? crowbar is pretty good, they're just SO overshadowed by the stabby versions

[thorn lark]

bonesaw needs a lot to come online

[mortal horizon]

its overall plague ogryn or horde clear times is very up there

[orchid hemlock]

Regi needs to make Bonesaw look good so his channel can survive

[tall torrent]

No

[tall torrent]

Lmao
Lmfao

[mortal horizon]

lol i disagree entirely, i think bonesaw is very strong personally

[orchid hemlock]

Why because Regi says so?

[tall torrent]

Yea no Mr E needs to read my guide

lol

That’s my only comment

[mortal horizon]

no bc i think hes right, seen his times, used it myself a lot lol its good af

[orchid hemlock]

Ok like I said

[tall torrent]

He needs to read my guide

[tall torrent]

There’s worse
He somehow put mk3 above mk6

[mortal horizon]

i wasnt able to tell by picture which was which, thats def wrong lmao

mk6 is WAY better

for psword

[tall torrent]

Eviscerator above power sword VI

What a world

Is he living inside the warp

[mortal horizon]

ya thats def also wrong, bc evisc suffers from a similar mobility issue outside of being on zealot frame

are the categories tiered?

[tall torrent]

Bro actually understands like

Maybe 1% of the game

Unreal ragebait

[mortal horizon]

seems like an exaggeration, its not a completely insane list for a new player, you guys are a BIT too harsh

but theres def shit thats wrong

[tall torrent]

I choose to believe he’s fully serious because that makes him look dumber which is funnier to me

[mortal horizon]

dont get me wrong im not agreeing its goodf

but if i had a brand new player who just wanted an idea of what to look at, i wouldnt turn him away from that screenshot as a baseline

i would just make him understand its just got some things incorrect

[tall torrent]

Nah that entire pic is just wrong from top to bottom

There’re very few things he got right lol

[mortal horizon]

which is his highest rated shovel? i cant tell them apart by image

where are the non folding shovels human/ogryn

bc those things are great, just underused

they should be in the 'competitive' tier i think both

at least

checked video

he calls MK 6 psword 'best in class' and the other one not as good

so i think he jsut mixed up the pictures

[tall torrent]

There’re only 3 melee weapons in t0 level

Power sword VI
Force greatsword
Rashad combat axe (specifically for hive scum)

Everything else is at best t1

[mortal horizon]

i just dont think i agree with that at all haha, im sure rashad is good on hivescum, but better than shivs? In h40?
I know you know a lot about the game, but is this considering solo potential, clutch potential, mobility and saftey?

none of those weapons are very good in clutch, overwhelmed, or solo situations

the powersword is very good, but like its mobility and speed is DOG

[wild vortex]

Boxcutters are indeed the mk3 shivs, and they are absolutely bonkers on a crit/tox setup because afaik they have the highest attack speed and solid ADMs. Crowbar is genuinely the worst scum exclusive weapon and it's not even a competition.

[orchid hemlock]

Rashad is the best weapon on Scum

This is objectively true in all scenarios with rampage

You can maybe make the argument outside of rampage

[wild vortex]

And personally I love the Bonesaw too but it's a very hate it or love it weapon and a LOT of people on this discord lean towards the former than the latter because of its latch attacks and the fact that it needs decent investment into cleave + attack speed + crit to feel alright whereas shivs don't

[mortal horizon]

wtf, since when ive not heard this at all.
ill try it - with BM/headtaker the standard?
this is in h40?

what makes it so good, the high rending? rending node on rampage + rending stimm, or?

its higher ttk than shivs?

reginalds playtests show shivs as highest armor ttk in the game just about

not saying hes the end all be all but

[orchid hemlock]

Yes I think on rampage it even beats shivs for crusher damage

[wild vortex]

Rashad goes insane with Hyperviolence.

[mortal horizon]

i do trust him as a player

[turbid ibex]

Path has a clip of rashad one tapping a crusher

[mortal horizon]

and we are talking h40 with h40 enemy mass and hp values, correct?

i can 1 tap them as well with shivs with a good hv proc

but ya thats good

show me talent tree build to optimize rashad, ill give it a whirl, weapons boring i ahvent used it in a while but im intrigued.

and its BM/headtaker ya?

[orchid hemlock]

It's just melee scum

With rampage

[mortal horizon]

am i going bottom right keystone, with crit stackinjg

or do you drop crit stacking on it

and what stimm, rending? or just the 45s cd on melee pump rampage off cd stimm

[turbid ibex]

Adrenaline

[mortal horizon]

and its BM /headtaker, or shred for crit?

or decimator?

oh, i rarely take adrenaline

i go right keystone + rampage almost always

but ill try it for this

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s not even close

Shiv is a really high t1 weapon

[mortal horizon]

i need a tree

i never use adrenaline

[tall torrent]

just basic melee spec

[mortal horizon]

i just dont know how to spec adrenaline

idk what that is

my basic melee spec is right side keystone

do i need the cleave nodes?

how many?

[tall torrent]

t0 and t1 distinction is mainly
t1 is good
t0 is "who approved this" level good

[tall torrent]

u don't need any cleave node except the rampage cleave subnode for axe

[mortal horizon]

am i going crit stuff?

[tall torrent]

wdym crit stuff

[mortal horizon]

am i going for tox on crit? amd i going HV + HC or just HV?

where is a tree i can look at lmao

[tall torrent]

tox on crit is dogshit tier

[mortal horizon]

what nodes on adrenaline?

[tall torrent]

HV + HC is S++ tier

smiter, toughness, optionally 20s

[mortal horizon]

everyone said for weeks not to use hc + hv together

[tall torrent]

yea they wrong

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1462835870997676052/image.png?ex=698a0191&is=6988b011&hm=5f8d6f148282851e660635cda7216f1372f0b9ef8d2ce342bad4c925348e2f88&

[mortal horizon]

reallyt dont need any other cleave, for h40?

not battering strikes?

[hybrid plover]

if it's rashad

you have brutal momentum

[tall torrent]

look at the combat axe cleave values in my guide and think for urself for a moment

[hybrid plover]

that's a huge part of why it's so ridiculously powerful

[torpid grotto]

Psykanium gaming

[mortal horizon]

so like this?

[hybrid plover]

i dont like rashad at all but in practice, it really is absurdly powerful particularly for this class

also something I discovered last night

rumbler ogryns are like, hive scum's kryptonite, i swear

[mortal horizon]

i have heard brutal momentum falls off in H40, which is why you dont see anyone use it up there. Same why i see ogryns take BM off the shield in h40

[hybrid plover]

who the fuck told you that?

[mortal horizon]

many many times

[hybrid plover]

maybe for power sword because it has sunder.

[mortal horizon]

and seen in practice when i play with h40 players all the time and inspect their builds

[hybrid plover]

But otherwise, BM is great into havoc 40

[mortal horizon]

right power sword swaps sunder, ogryns often drop BM on shield (RAWK, other ogryns i see/know) etc

[hybrid plover]

you gotta consider the weapons that have it too

[mortal horizon]

am i doing anything wrong here to test this rashad maxing? just need a quick confirm before i queue up and try it

[hybrid plover]

for ogryns, it makes sense because there are other blessings that might end up having more value for what they're trying to do

but that does not mean the blessing as a whole just falls off

it is still plenty powerful for havoc

and especially on hive scum, it's particularly potent because of hyperviolence

[mortal horizon]

right, cool, i doubted but i know you guys know your stuff so im gonna try it rn

is that build i posted correct?

or am i missing anything crucial?

and this, do i want flakiac perhaps?