veteran-class

[static crypt]

ty

[umbral scaffold]

Grey name got mogged by permissions

Fight it, uncoloured one

Claim your role

[static crypt]

what

[serene bough]

Almost as often as possible, but sometimes you hold it if you anticipate an oncoming dangerous situation

[scarlet pebble]

whats the dif between infantry and vigilant autoguns

[narrow frost]

what fires real bullets other is laser

vigi marks can have burst fire

oh wait

vigi marks are more marksman and have burst fire while infantry are full auto

meant for more spammy not as sniper ish

[urban blade]

I pop it generally when there's a death blob of elites and specialists rolling in

[calm shard]

vigilants are burst fire (graia is semi-auto) marksman rifles with very high base damage and finesse values over range and generally are good at sniping

the infantry autoguns are close range death lasers taht obliterate anything you point them at

out to like

15-ish meters

depending on how good you are at recoil control

[lyric path]

bruh why does the power falchion have such a LOOOONNNNG cooldown

[calm shard]

can't have your mediocre powered up state forever that'd be stepping on the toes of the shovel

[lyric path]

no shit its mediocore still needs a fucking buff those

[dull goblet]

At least it’s not Devil Sword and Heavy Sword level

[tough nova]

Ill happily use those over power falchion at least they have a niche

[lyric path]

truth

[hollow ibex]

power falch has a niche as a ranged weapon sidearm

unironically pretty good there

even if the weapon is still overall mid

[tough nova]

What does this mean

[calm shard]

you are helbore gaming and your melee only needs to kill trash/ragers

and even in that niche the power falch is like

the last option I'd take

[hollow ibex]

it's not bad

[calm shard]

dclaw and chord are far less effort and have way better stagger

[hollow ibex]

though i wouldn't use it with helbore

[tough nova]

Ok I was gonna say im not sure that's a niche

[calm shard]

THOUGH

the power falch is less hopeless into carapace

[hollow ibex]

yeah

you give up the ability to gank ragers, but you have the ability to gank carapace

which is an ok trade

[dull goblet]

Id take falch over the other 2 just to be able to deal with cara right now

Caras harder to deal with

[lyric path]

nothing a hail of bullets and a krak grenade cant solve

[hollow ibex]

well it depends on how you want to solve each problem

i tend not to take kraks

and let my melee or gun pick up the slack

[quasi jasper]

Honestly the armor types all get mixed up in my head. To me im hitting skin or armor, and if Im hutti.g armor i just need to use more bullets.

Also helps that I set my perks to be bonus damage against flak and carapace

[dull goblet]

When you run out of Kraks you still need something to be able to kill cara too

Especially when the director wants to fuck you up

[lyric path]

this is why we veterans need the HOTSHOT

[tough nova]

Carapace receives significantly less damage when compared to flak. They look similar but behave differently. Additionally carapace cancels cleave on contact barring specific blessings.

[quasi jasper]

So carapace stronger than flak, I see.

[tough nova]

Yah if you inspect any weapon it shows you damage values into different armor groupings and i can't even think of a weapon with higher base damage into carapace than flak. Someone can correct me if im misremembering.

[hollow ibex]

flak is basically temu carapace

[quasi jasper]

I love how Temu has become an adjective of all things low quality

[lyric path]

WHY is it that we rejects dont have armor?

[tough nova]

Its a deserved reputation

[hollow ibex]

because we're even more op

and have toughness lol

[quasi jasper]

We have armor

But our armor serves no mechanical purpose

Our armor remains cosmetic

[calm shard]

ogryn's "Feel No Pain" keystone is internally named ogryn_carapace_armour or something to that effect

[quasi jasper]

But on a similar train of thought, in the year 40000, why are energy shields not a thing? Perhaps I should ask the lore chat?

[dull goblet]

They are a thing

[quasi jasper]

Sure, the grenade

[dull goblet]

Like the captains basically use it

[quasi jasper]

Or the osyker power

[lyric path]

they are?

[calm shard]

innovation is tech heresy

[tough nova]

Can't afford that on rejects

[calm shard]

and also the traitor captains use them

[dull goblet]

They have personal energy shields and stuff

[quasi jasper]

..wut

[calm shard]

straight up innovatingt gets you kicked out of the mechanicus

[dull goblet]

Toughness is basically a energy shield/field mechanic tbh

[quasi jasper]

Thats.. thats.. that's infuriating! Lmao

[hollow ibex]

true...

[lyric path]

my good sir there a fucking VOID dragon under mars thats classed as the ommi sire and the damn thing isnt even a machine

[calm shard]

yeah if it was a machine they'd have to kill it

Abominable Intelligence n' all

[quasi jasper]

What kind of place is this!! Loll.
So in this universe, we have a giant subfaction dedicated to technical expertise and engineering that refuses anything which would encroach upon advancement. Why???

[calm shard]

a devout (delusional) belief that all things that can be discovered already have

and must be re-discovered

by stealing it

from a tomb

usually the tomb has necrons in it who do not approve of their shit getting yoinked

[hybrid plover]

They worry for another Dark Age of Technology.

[lyric path]

cause bullshit thats why

[dull goblet]

There are some that innovate and are basically hereteks but because they’re in positions of power/useful the empire doesnt do anything lol. But yeah welcome to the Imperium of Man

[calm shard]

oh and also the last time humanity tried to innovate and they accidentally created intelligent AI that then waged war on them because turns out AI didn't want to be slaves

[hybrid plover]

There's an actual reason. Is it a good reason? Probably not. But its not without reason.

[calm shard]

which is also why every single thing is powered by a lobotomized human

[hybrid plover]

The Dark Age of Technology.

[calm shard]

can't have AI

[dull goblet]

Cawl has bascially been hereteking/innovating for years

[tough nova]

Has anyone here seen Pantheon?

[quasi jasper]

Seems like most every sci fi universe placed far into the future has a Butlerian Jihad

[dull goblet]

Thats just 40k taking from Dune

[lyric path]

the dark age of tech was men of stone and men of iron ai and the imperium treated them like shit

no wonder why the men of iron rebeled

[dull goblet]

Like 40k has clear direct dune inspired lore details

[quasi jasper]

Oh, like just directly copying?

[hybrid plover]

I mean. What do you think is happening on Tertium?

[dull goblet]

Yeah the Navigators are basically Dune expies too

[quasi jasper]

I knew there was a reason I liked this universe

[hybrid plover]

There's a reason Nurgle took hold as hard as he did in this setting.

[quasi jasper]

Wait, then what stands in for the spice?

[hybrid plover]

The Imperium fucking sucks.

[dull goblet]

Psykers 😂

And human fodder tbh lol

[quasi jasper]

No, those would only be the Bene Geserit, yeah?

[orchid hemlock]

"what an inefficient torture method, death could have been withheld for much longer"

[dull goblet]

No like psykers are literally used to fuel a lot of shit

[quasi jasper]

Oh right

Oh my goodness

[dull goblet]

Like it is normal for psykers to die when warp travelling or when you want to send a telepathic mail to someone lol

[quasi jasper]

40k is just Dune Reskin

[hollow ibex]

i don't think that's really fair tbh

are there even stuff like chaos gods?

in dune?

i mean at some point there's a ||god emperor||

[quasi jasper]

SHAI HULUD

[hollow ibex]

but it's quite different

40k def has dune inspirations tho

[hybrid plover]

Psykers are used as fuel. For one of the strongest psykers in the setting lol

Or at least the life support keeping them alive.

[quasi jasper]

Ah what was the name of the tech faction in Dune...

[dull goblet]

Yeah 40k took from Dune but in the way a lot of works take from each other and are derivative (Like fantasy settings in general and LOTR)

[tough nova]

https://tenor.com/view/dune-stilgar-lisanalgaib-fremen-lisan-al-gaib-gif-13633185611076219756

[lyric path]

at least in 40k rogue trader one of the endings someone at least had the bright idea to use a fragment of some star god to cut their territory from the imperium even if the rogue trader themself died in the process

[quasi jasper]

So the Arbites are Ixians?

[dull goblet]

No they’re Judges from Dredd 😂

[quasi jasper]

Does 40k have a Tlielax as well?

Maybe im just getting carried away. I really like Dune

[dull goblet]

Closest would be deldar/drukhari

[lyric path]

Iconoclast ending I believe it’s part of

[dull goblet]

But again it’s not really a 1:1 dune copy more like there are some details that are directly inspired/copies from Dune

[quasi jasper]

So back to the original question then, is toughness a game mechanic, or is it the 40k equivalent of the kinetic shield?

[dull goblet]

40k has personal energy shields/fields

The boss captains use them

[quasi jasper]

Maybe I should go play Rogue Trader tonight.. bought that game in part to learn more about the 40k universe

[dull goblet]

But yeah toughness seems like it acts like that lol

[tame granite]

toughness is just a game mechanic

we're not important enough for a shield lmao

[calm shard]

psyker shield 😎

[austere mica]

Its game mechanics

Toughness as a stat on tabletop is just how hard it is to wound you after you get hit

[lyric path]

Recommend you do a iconoclast play through first

[austere mica]

Iconoclast is chaotic stupid

[quasi jasper]

Sort of like AC in d&d?

[austere mica]

No

AC determines how hard it is to hit you

Toughness is how likely something is to actually harm you after connect

[quasi jasper]

Oh, an extra layer. Got it

[austere mica]

Nah thats SV

[quasi jasper]

Im 6 hours into Rogue Trader and am not entirely sure of the mechanics yet. I do know how to reload however. And also some basic strategy.

[austere mica]

The order of operations for checking if you take damage is
Attacker rolls versus their weapon's BS/WS
If they hit they compare the weapon's strength to your toughness and roll for a wound
If they wound then the defender rolls versus their own save -AP
Then they roll versus their invul save if any

[quasi jasper]

My goodness

I would not want to play this at the table top.

[austere mica]

Its not that bad

Usually just 3 rolls

[quasi jasper]

Thats 3 rolls for 1 action.

[austere mica]

Its only bad with weapons with a fuck ton of attacks or big units with Rapid Fire

[austere mica]

this is normal

[quasi jasper]

Gameplay doesnt get bogged down?

[austere mica]

Bitch

You are already sitting down for 2 hours

maybe 3

[tame granite]

40ks deepest darkest secret is that the wargame sucks lmao

[austere mica]

This is why you just play Kill Team

And experience the same mechanics at a smaller scale

[quasi jasper]

Lmao the very thing they advertise, where so much money is spent, and its bad??

[tame granite]

the models are good

it's just the actual game sucks ass

it's why so many people just buy to paint

[austere mica]

(this is an opinion its not objectively bad)

[tame granite]

nah it's just

if you want to play a wargame

there are better games

[austere mica]

like aos

[calm shard]

oh my goodness root reference

[tame granite]

but seeing Captain Shitfucker of The Brown Streaks (who you painted and wrote the backstory of) beat a carnifex in single combat has an appeal separate to the game

[past peak]

The real superior tabletop 40k is Necromunda

[fair shale]

Idk why GW is so averse to flip flop activations instead of turn based

[sonic kayak]

Dark Heresy

[thorny egret]

ask yourself how long the average "streamlined" tabletop turn takes and you have your answer

it is always bogged down

thanks DND Beyond

[fair shale]

40k feels bad cause its your turn my turn

[austere mica]

Just play a champion fighter

[fair shale]

Instead of your unit my unit

[austere mica]

Run at them
Swing 3 times
Pop second wind (optional)
Win

[thorny egret]

40k is a wargame, they've always been like that

[fair shale]

Play Legions or Bolt Action

They go your unit my unit

[past peak]

Thats a TTRPG, but respect

[sonic kayak]

True, not a war game

[thorny egret]

I have heard good things about Bolt Action

[fair shale]

It's fun, I'd reccomend it

[thorny egret]

cool, if I ever have money again I'm down

[past peak]

Necromunda is the superior 40k skirmish game because the gangs are cooler than the Killteams. Mostly. Also its got really fun campaign rules

[fair shale]

Its cheap fwiw

[past peak]

Got tabletop sim? Try before you buy

[fair shale]

Killteam>Munda if you have no league for Munda, Munda>KT if you can have a league and campaign going

[thorny egret]

I do have tabletop sim

[past peak]

Fair. Although if you're just mini-collecting to paint you CANNOT beat the Munda minis in pure soul a lot of the time

[thorny egret]

it still cracks me up that Killteam has Space Marines

[past peak]

I have a Killteam in my pile of shame that was a gift

[austere mica]

Real world setting wargames are super miniatures agnositic, you just have to get the scale and weapons (margin of error is large) correct

[austere mica]

Why

[fair shale]

Oh I agree

Munda has some of the best minis if you like classical GW stuff

[past peak]

Even the recent plastic is fantastic. Its an open secret that Munda is where all the GW old boys club works

[austere mica]

GW skirmish games just eat good forever

[past peak]

We have so many Space Marine liutenents becuase when they hire a new sculptor its the first thing they have to do to prove themselves

[thorny egret]

it's just hard to imagine taking your lil guard unit against a tactical squad

[fair shale]

Literally all of GWs side games are their best games

Titanicus, KT, Munda

[austere mica]

You get like 4 marines or something

[fair shale]

Aeronautica I heard great things about

[austere mica]

And you can soup those guardsmen up

Every second man with a plasma

Nice carapace

[past peak]

Tbf even Rogal Dorn sees Space Marines as 10:1 when you fight unfairly. And the Guard teams are all Vets or Spec Ops fighting reslly unfairly iirc

[austere mica]

1st ed killteam refresh was just generic guard

[dreamy sphinx]

its done
its finally over

[austere mica]

Because stats were 1:1

It was very silly

[thorny egret]

congrats!

[dreamy sphinx]

and now, for another 70h of gameplay

[thorny egret]

yeah ngl this is what's keeping me from Havoc lol

I keep seeing/reading the horror stories

[past peak]

I got Poxbreaker and I still havent bothered doing this

I was just gonna do a bunch of sub-20s

[dreamy sphinx]

its 50 hours of havoc gameplay to get that title, assuming each game is 30min each

[dreamy sphinx]

find yourself someone who hasnt run havoc yet and do those, you can usually get them in 15-20min

since low havoc is just heresy with a few mods

[thorny egret]

I've done... 1 havoc mission I think

I just have no desire to continue doing it

[past peak]

I got my True Survivor and fled Havoc like a bat outta hell

And the penance gear

But like the badge and stuff

Dont got

[dreamy sphinx]

all things considered, the 50 games is worth

[slender elm]

In dawn of war 2 your tacs start with 3 dudes with a sarge at tier 2 tech

[past peak]

Is that fuckin stock on your plasma

[dreamy sphinx]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1168712871975333928/1240510301678338069/output-onlinegiftools_1.gif

[past peak]

You get your eyebrows singed off like a proper Soldier

[dreamy sphinx]

here's some other silly weapons i have on my veteran

duelling sword, power falch, boltgun and infantry lasgun

[fair shale]

Fallout 4 ass weapons

[tame lodge]

True

Fish weapon alert

Fish weapon alert

https://tenor.com/view/assault-rifle-halo-halo-infinite-reload-reloading-gif-25113160

[umbral scaffold]

Making a katana with the dueling sword blade was one of my favorites for the devil claw

[dreamy sphinx]

it only gets goofier from here

[umbral scaffold]

Curved battery

Y'know, for your dual laspistol

[dreamy sphinx]

on my warpnerd, instead of a stick she just uses a fuckin servitor

[quasi jasper]

Alright, so Im trying the improvements to the build that have been suggested.

And perhaps I need to change the perks on my curious os something, but my block does like nothing

Ah.

Ive been trying to block unblockable attacks

<sigh>

[austere mica]

Yeah blocking doesn't do much in this game compared to vt

Just dodge or stagger the problem

Blocking will often make things worse

[junior grail]

What is a safe melee to pair with helbore? Using ExeStance and mmf

[livid sphinx]

Anyone else dying to crusher overheads from behind more often recently?

[dreamy sphinx]

is this fish gun enough for you

[umbral scaffold]

ghoti

[faint beacon]

Evil ass gun

[lyric path]

Well now I’m curious about something why is it that we can’t block a mauler overhead without being downed?

[faint beacon]

That’s just the mechanic of overheads

You have to dodge them

Long wind up moves that are very telegraphed

[lyric path]

allow me to correct myself arbi and ogryns can block overheads with their shields

[crisp cloak]

after trying the plasma gun more, I understand it even less. It doesn't seem to have the damage nor area clear to justify taking it

idk maybe it's just not for me lol, I just don't understand why it's so popular

[thorny egret]

what the actual mcfuck is this lmao

[dreamy sphinx]

you dont use it for horde clear, you use it for clearing armour with the big charge and specials/disablers/ragers with your normal

also depends on what blessings you have on it

[frigid rover]

alright yeah the 'auto charge helbore' mod makes it feel much more likely for me to use the silly thing

[dreamy sphinx]

i really wanna use the helbore but the muzzle flash makes it nigh fucking impossible for me

[frigid rover]

and oh wow, this thing is pretty good at turning off the ol heretics

[crisp cloak]

it doesn't feel strong enough for that either

like a bolt pistol feels about the same strength but much less complicated

[dreamy sphinx]

bolt pistol doesnt get a metric fuckton of cleave and can deal with a swarm of ragers in 1-3 shots

[crisp cloak]

also I'm trying the duelling sword for the first time and it's such a weird weapon

[crisp cloak]

it also feels stronger than it should be

[crisp cloak]

ok somethings up with the plasma guns I been using cause they were not doing that lol

maybe bad stat rolls or smth

also epic weapon look was that made with the weapon customization mod?

[dreamy sphinx]

once upon a time, psyker was even better than they already are because only psyker had the duelling sword before flatshark made a bunch of weapons all-class

[dreamy sphinx]

extended weapon customization, yeag

normal WC on nexus is broken as fuck

[crisp cloak]

I need to go on the modded server to get the up to date one

[dreamy sphinx]

bad rolls, bad blessings, just straight up not having a good talent tree build

plasma gun is pretty agreed on to be fantastic lol

[crisp cloak]

I don't think my talent tree build is abysmal

I'll give plasma gun another shot

[thorny egret]

it takes some getting used to but plasma absolutely slaps once it "clicks", if that makes sense

[dreamy sphinx]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0344e17-58b4-400e-8d79-246f93935abb/havoc-40-vet-4m-nade-weapon-specialist
this is what ive p much been using for my havoc 40 runs with vet on rotten armour

[thorny egret]

I snagged this lil beaut the other day and it's been a treat

[frigid rover]

hmmmm
i wonder if +elite on helbore changes any meaningful breakpoints if im trying to kill armor as hard as possible

probably not

[dreamy sphinx]

nah, still better off picking smth like flak

[frigid rover]

does it have decent inherent ADM or should i be rendmaxxing

[dreamy sphinx]

[azure narwhal]

There's no need for it, if you're set on being a carapace killer with helbore then pick mkIV with MMF. Though, MkV can run armourbane due to how easy it is to both apply and benefit off of it

If you gk mkIV, surgical and weight of fire.

[shell bane]

Is wrath any good on devil's claw? I'm not sure what blessings to choose but I feel like I need alot of cleave since it's my crowd control weapon

[distant mural]

Overrated weapon

[deft crystal]

Rising heat + Gets hot blessings
25% to flak + unyielding perks

Pair that with the mark 3 knife

With flesh tearer and lacerate + first target dumpstat

For movement

you can bleed out crowds (with good blocking and dodging)

And kill most armored

[heady rapids]

In some guides I see that (almost) all weapons are viable up until difficulty 4 for vet.
Is that really true? What do you guys recommend for mid range weakspot hits.
I either use laspistol or vigilant autogun (The semi autoone). Have not tried recon lasgun

[deft crystal]

Typical staples for higher difficulty

Plas gun
Recon lasgun
Columbus

Any vet's job will be to snipe elites and gunners

If you cant instantly delete a Crusher/armor horde off the map with your regular weapons, run krak for em.
If you cant delete a ranged enemy off the map but can deal with crusher/armor, run smoke.

[dull goblet]

Basically every weapon is usable up til standard auric

Havoc is where it becomes really hard to run suboptimal sutff

[heady rapids]

Ah. I see. Thanks.
Yea that's what I thought but wanted to be sure. As long as the teammates pull their weights ig.

[dull goblet]

Maybe Auric maelstrom too depending on modifiers

[quick shell]

Personally wouldn’t use dclaw for that. Dclaw is a weird weapon that’s best/mostly used as a backup when you can do most everything else with primary, vet has better options for a horde clear melee like basically everything else

[shell bane]

Idk man 3 people said otherwise

I think it's pretty good

[silver patrol]

doesn't it have also pretty good horde clear

[shell bane]

Are crowd control and horde clear 2 different things

[silver patrol]

yes but sometimes they are used in the same way

[distant mural]

They must be legit trolling you

That weapon is abyssmal.

Terrible against anything with more then skin as armor.

Youre better off using the piwer falchion if you just want some basic horde clear.

[shell bane]

Well yes they said for clearing trash mobs

I use it for that

[quick shell]

You can use the parry for it

[quick shell]

It can’t handle mixed horde at all.

[shell bane]

It also has a parry and I quite like it

[quick shell]

It’ll kill poxwalkers and that’s about it

The parry is useful if you’re using it for that

The weapon itself is mid af

[shell bane]

Whats included in a mixed horde

[quick shell]

Chaff with elites mixed in

[shell bane]

I kill elites with the gun

I use the claw on unarmored stuff

I'm only playing on heresy rn so that might be why it's good for me

[quick shell]

At that point use heavy sword because it’ll cut through chaff way more effectively

[quick shell]

Ah, yeah. That’ll do it.

[shell bane]

I saw a guy today decimating chaff with an electricity sword

Is that the falcion

[distant mural]

Still does no dmg

[quick shell]

It does

[shell bane]

Cuz it seemed pretty powerful to me
Or maybe it's just maxed and op on this difficulty

[distant mural]

Good luck doing that with a conga line of crishers

[distant mural]

Barely yeah

[shell bane]

How do I deal with crushers as vet btw

[distant mural]

Krak

[shell bane]

My team usually clears conga lines for me but solo I just use my helbore

[distant mural]

Hellbore also good yeah

[analog mural]

Kraks, knife, duelling sword, power sword, plasma, helbore

[distant mural]

P-sword also

[analog mural]

Rashad

[gentle lake]

piss sword

[quick shell]

Melee weapon, kraks, specific ranged weapons, marksman’s fire with basically any ranged weap

[shell bane]

Okay cool cool noted

Also I'm still confused, does the helbore crack carapace enemies by default or do I need brittleness from my teammates?

The numbers said it's pretty ass

[shell bane]

I mean the attack patterns

[analog mural]

You gotta charge it to do any meaningful damage to cara

[shell bane]

Yeah I always charge it

[analog mural]

Well you don't really need brittleness but it would help

Just don't take onslaught that's a bait

Exe stance is pretty comfy on helbore

[shell bane]

I use the sniper build from the guide

Don't remember what the stance is called

[quick shell]

Executioners

Because that’s the only ability with stance in the name for vet

[analog mural]

Yeah that build looks good

[slender elm]

Helbore you only need full charge on head to delet enemy

[abstract garden]

any advice on the adept assassin penance? It's the one where you have to kill specialist or elites with critical weakspot hits while weapons specialist is active.
Currently, I'm using the dueling sword to rack up ranged specialist, then switching to the spearhead boltgun when I see groups of specialists and just unloading on them to get headshots as best I can.
It's really slow going though, and so far I'm only at 106. Yeah, I could probably take my time to use the semi-auto when I aim down sights, but a lot of the time when I try that, the enemy group either downs me, or my group members annihilate them before I can get more than a few shots off.
Should I change my weapons? the boltgun has +16 toughness on Elite Kill, +4 toughness during continuous fire, 25% damage to flak armor, and 10% reload. It also has 80% on everything except collateral, and is lvl 500.
the dueling saber has 60%finesse damage on dodge, hitting 3 enemies increases damage by 36%, 25% damage to flak, and 2 stamina. Mobility is 74%, finessse is 66%, and everything else is 80, and it is also lvl 500

[silver patrol]

your boltgun has garbo blessings

and your duelling sword too

try it without a gun that doesn't take 10 days to draw out, like plasma, a shotgun, recon lasgun, infantry autogun or revolver

[abstract garden]

alright, I'll see how it goes when next I play

[quick shell]

Like literally any other gun

[silver patrol]

almost, hellbore would be an even poorer fit

and you'll never see my ass recommend the infantry lasgun

[quick shell]

I mean I guarantee this isn’t havoc

So ilas could work fine

[analog mural]

Remember when ilas 12 was actually considered a good option? Not even Pepperidge farm remembers that shit

[serene bough]

That was also the same time plasma was dogwater and shredder autopistol meta existed

Honestly humorous to think about now lol

[quick shell]

Oh yeah I remember the plasma being ass

It had like, normal cleave right?

[slow sky]

Knife and revolver

The biggest thing is landing a kill with the ranged crit to the head, and the revolver has a massive hitbox to the head and can cleave to hit multiple enemies

It also has some baked in crit and can force a crit even with 1 stack of weapon specialist cuz of surgical

Knife is in a similar spot, you can put riposte on it and now you have 35% more crit than most weapons

But revolver does the heavy lifting with it just needing one stack, whipping it out, then shooting

I did this penance when it came out this way and it took 2 games

And elite spawns were lower then

[serene bough]

It was definitely more grounded but charged shots cleaved

It also just had poor breakpoints on M1 shots and chipped HP instead of toughness

[quasi jasper]

Different weapons have different hitboxes?

[silver patrol]

uhh yeah

[tough nova]

Revolver and iirc bistol are very generous when it comes to headshots.

[silver patrol]

plasma too

tho that one just has a massive hitbox in general

[tough nova]

Stoopid plasma gun

[silver patrol]

i think revolver has more like headshot magnetism

might be wrong

[past peak]

God I love the infantry laagun

[past peak]

I still run aurics with it

[quick shell]

I mean yeah that's auric

[past peak]

The superior way to play because Havoc is ass

[calm shard]

god I (nothing) the infantry lasgun

[calm shard]

It's not even a bad gun just...what's the point in running it?

[past peak]

Feels good to click heads, imo

[analog mural]

I mean... So does helbore

[silver patrol]

helbore also clicks crusher heads

[past peak]

Helbore does it but feels worse

[calm shard]

sure does but it does it worse than laspistol

or helbore

[analog mural]

Yeah also las pistol

[past peak]

Listen I ai t here for the meta I'm here for fun and the lasgun sound design is pure sex

[silver patrol]

i don't think i have ever seen an infantry lasgun vet that wasn't a load to the team tbh

[quick shell]

actually killing the things i shoot at feels miserable, I agree

[calm shard]

not the guns fault

[past peak]

I dunno its just...click heads

[calm shard]

anybody who wants what the infantry lasgun does gameplay wise is going to be using something else

because the infantry lasgun is hopelessly outclassed by a lot of other guns at the "click heads" niche

[past peak]

Just click the head it dies you get infinite crits for basically free

[calm shard]

also ilas still kills things I dunno why you're trying to say it has bad damage

it actually unironically has some of the highest maniacs damage of any gun in the entire game

it doesn't have helbore damage but literally nothing else in the game does

does that make the vigilant autoguns and bolters have bad damage?

[quick shell]

yes.

[past peak]

And I'll gladly admit the way I play with the ilas is a skill cannon build. If I have a bad aim match I'll notice it

[quick shell]

do u run mmf

[past peak]

I do, and I love it

[quick shell]

yeah that'll be aim

ive seen an ilas 3 tap a crusher with 15 mmf

[calm shard]

I don't think that's possible

[quick shell]

someone literally sent a clip in here of them doing it

[calm shard]

helbore can only barely 2 tap them with every single damage boosting talent you can feasibly fit on one build

[quick shell]

it was 3 or 4 shots

idk if it was a havoc crusher to be fair

[calm shard]

bolter 3 shots them for example

on a gun build

[quasi jasper]

Mmf?

[quick shell]

yeah

[calm shard]

but yeah ilas damage isn't that bad for Mk VII

IIb's damage is bad but like that's kinda the point

since it shoots fast and has fucktons of ammo

[steep flower]

Or just use puncture & shattering and it dies as fast without MMF so you can spend your talents elsewhere

[calm shard]

oh that's better than I expected but still red stimm for that

[tame lodge]

I think they were referring to sirosky's (?) iLas 12 video

They built it to damage armor real good

But I think it was against 3600 HP crushers

Oh it wasn't siros

[calm shard]

oh right

weapon customization mod is bugged and makes you deal double damage in local lobbies

[tame lodge]

Huh

[calm shard]

that's why I have it turned off in my clips

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/samurai-jack-aku-how-tf-unbelievable-gif-8289402379491026864

[calm shard]

they added the ability to change weapon damage types/firing sounds in the recode for the mod

that makes the vfx for your shots different

works on melee weapons too

and that fucked the local damage calculations for some reason

oh wait this is pre-scum so no recode actually

and that is infact a 3600 hp crusher

[slow sky]

Its like they shoot tree logs

Sideways

[calm shard]

very strange

but yeah new weapon customization is bugged and does double damage in psykhanium so keep that in mind when you see clips with it active

[tough nova]

Does anyone like/use the heavy las variant? I've tried it with desperado dum dum and mmf but was wondering if people have had success building it another way.

[tall torrent]

some weapons have larger hitscan radius

[tepid otter]

like the skin on the weap is making it deal more dmg?

[native hamlet]

what is disgustingly resilient armor again?

for adm related stuff

and resistant

[tame lodge]

Disgustingly resilient is infested

Resistant is unyielding

[calm shard]

the mod weapon customization

[broken reef]

yo whats the power falchion build

and is it any different from the power sword

[tall torrent]

much worse overall

[broken reef]

awwww

fr?

[turbid ibex]

it is quite mid

meanwhile pord is at the very least a contender for best melee in the game

[broken reef]

damn, not even its strikedown save the damn thing?

[tall torrent]

try 1v10 dreg rager melee only no chip dmg

[hollow axle]

What is the absolute best support build rn (still Vet VoC ? )

[tall torrent]

it wouldn't be vet

[hollow axle]

Why ?

[tall torrent]

other classes have higher impact support ults & kit

[hollow axle]

Oh ! What are good classes supports tools now ? Taunt for Ogryn ? Chorus for Zealot ? Bubble for Psyker ?

[tall torrent]

yea pretty much every support ult (except arb's nuncio aquila) is higher impact than VoC

[tough nova]

Be a hipster and use pysker double wall

More fun to play with/around

[dry cloak]

Nuncio requires setup around it

[tall torrent]

Nuncio is just not good

[dry cloak]

That does not stop me from running it

[tough nova]

I think it needs a little bit more offensive oomph

[turbid ibex]

nuncio could have a radius increase too

[narrow widget]

not to say that shout isn't good since it does give you that hard kd + golden toughness when you really need it
just that if you're playing shoutbot why not just play chorus ifywim

[turbid ibex]

or maybe something like fast acting for scum box

[tough nova]

I think rather than debuffing enemies inside it should buff the damage of friendlys

Maybe a linger effect too or smth

[turbid ibex]

idk i feel like the debuff fits really well thematically

[tough nova]

Then hey let's do both!

[turbid ibex]

lingering effect after leaving the area is prob the way to go

[tough nova]

But you're right I like the idea of an announcement upsetting nurgles fknest

[dry cloak]

One does not conflict with the other

They do that right now

Buff to teamates debuff for enemies

[tough nova]

I mean a str8 damage buff not as or recoil stagger etc

[dry cloak]

Straight damage is not the answer here

Imo

[tough nova]

Then what

[dry cloak]

Tdr, stagger resist, supresion immunity

[tough nova]

Already gives tdr but I like the addition of the other two

[steep flower]

And much more

[dry cloak]

I dont have spreadsheets in my hed

[broken reef]

okay yeah falcion just sucks

[quasi jasper]

What makes it bad?

[tough nova]

The context it exists in

[tough nova]

Jack of no trades master of nothing

[dry cloak]

I think its fine. But then i rarely play auric nowadays

[dry cloak]

Big cat

[turbid ibex]

perish

[tough nova]

ADORABLE

[turbid ibex]

i see that godforsaken number

[gentle lake]

6 7

[quasi jasper]

Post that Pic in the pet channel

See the reaponse

[twin kettle]

Best blessings for heavy las pistol?

[hollow ibex]

dumdum + ghost/infernus

[twin kettle]

Do you recommend the fast or slow firerate mark?

[hollow ibex]

fast

slow is very very niche

[mortal horizon]

for powersword, h40, is brutal momentum still good, or should i be taking sunder?

[unreal nova]

I'll add that is the same for all classes, fast is more used.

[unreal nova]

H40 goes sunder from memory. You don't really have the breakpoints anymore.

[tough nova]

Sunder let's you cleave carapace which is pretty important

[turbid ibex]

sunder also gives you effectively 40-ish cleave

[quasi jasper]

I wanted to start havoc last night, and havoc 1 requires at least 1 party member. However, there was no button that let me host or join a game.

So to start havoc do I need friends?

[polar rain]

No there should be a button called party finder

[distant plaza]

1-3 teammates
whether they're your friends or not is optional

[polar rain]

Did you beat a maelstrom heresy mission?

[quick shell]

whether they're actually on ur team or heretics in disguise is also debatable

[distant plaza]

pubbies and poxbursters are not a fun combination >.>

[quasi jasper]

It was 2 AM. Perhaps I was just too tired to notice how to do that. I tried that button but I didnt see any thing that was like "game start" or any indicator saying "you're now LFG"

[quasi jasper]

Yes

[quick shell]

u have to actively apply for groups

[quasi jasper]

Hm

[unreal nova]

Could be on team and still heretics... for the other gods.

[quick shell]

they're still enemies then

[spark helm]

Not like rejects that get into the inquisition aren't backstabbers. They'll do it all on their own.

[unreal nova]

I guess for you.

[quick shell]

ok heretic

[spark helm]

Just draw a mark on something and fuck their shit up lol

[unreal nova]

Old news.

[spark helm]

Actually, honestly, you don't even have to do anything. Some poor unfortunate soul(s) living lower in a sump will be tapped by Nurgle because throneside is literally too busy shitting on everyone else.

[unreal nova]

Is why Nurgle festers in a hive city so well.

[spark helm]

It's pretty free. The imperium will open itself up one way or another because it's so vapidly cruel to its own people that it'll cede ground to the very things it's so obsessed with "fighting". 40K stuff, yeah, but the reflections and projections between chaos and the imperium are mutual and fluid. It just keeps happening.

[unreal nova]

It feeds into Chaos with how it is.

[turbid ibex]

it feeds

omnomnomnom

[gentle lake]

With chaos

You get a god who answers your cries

[polar rain]

With the price of yiur humanity

[spark helm]

And honestly, for all the people being worked to death, imprisoned and tortured, literally sent on ships to death to feed a deity, endless warfare and the devastation it causes, endless expansion and exploitation and blah blah blah.

It doesn't matter if chaos is going to betray those very same people, they literally want an end to the exploitation. Of course plenty are willing to actually say fuck it and start praising these things. Their foundation is literally praising deities and institutions that despise them. Hell yeah, you're going to get Nurgle popping off in the lower levels. Can you genuinely imagine the hellishness of a hive city and having to rely on fucking fatbergs for food in the most extreme cases? Sump leeches?

[unreal nova]

Do anyone on the lower side even get treated as if they are anything more than tools or fodder?

[dreamy sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/northernlion-six-seven-67-unc-still-got-it-bald-streamer-67-gif-17498384913797201136

[calm shard]

cartel members

:)

[unreal nova]

When you have a name anyway.

[spark helm]

The others? Fuck no.

Lmao

[polar rain]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-krabs-we-used-to-kill-people-with-hammers-for-saying-things-like-that-kill-people-with-hammers-hammers-gif-28854509168023063

[spark helm]

You're lucky if you're not some chem torture doll somewhere.

[quick shell]

The problem is

The very problems that plague the imperium are also the things that save it

[spark helm]

That's not saving it honestly. It's just cycling things out.

[quick shell]

The incredibly harsh, unyielding discipline and laws are what keeps it functional

But they’re also what invites distraction

And make chaos so easy to fall to

[spark helm]

If you have a system that cannot stop itself from reproducing the same ills, no amount of temporary security gained after the pigs and dogs do their dirt is going to stop the people lower from being fucked on.

It literally isn't working. None of it is.

[quick shell]

It isn’t but it’s too big to really change

And it’s so resistant to change

The imperial creed and dogma, the fanatical worship of the emperor are what helps push back the influence of chaos

Because faith functions as a shield

But because of it, they’re so resistant to change

Even guilliman himself struggles to enact change

[fair shale]

Imperium bad, chaos bad, space elves good.

[spark helm]

It's more like 40k as a universe punishes change like conceptually and metanarratively.

[quick shell]

Eldar are better than most I guess

[spark helm]

Chaos has institutions no different than the imperium, aeldari, drukhari, etc.

[calm shard]

well yeah if they weren't they'd all be dead instead of just most of them

[unreal nova]

They lived through the loss of their gods and all that.

[quick shell]

They still have a couple left

[spark helm]

The metric for who is worse than who is genuinely a literary exercise in futility and handwaving.

[unreal nova]

Yeah, but some are weakened.

[fair shale]

One should not compare evils, Kruber

[quick shell]

Eh it kinda depends

It does heavily depend on your criteria

[fair shale]

Nah they're all bad.

That's kinda the point.

[quick shell]

If your criteria is being a human and being alive, imperium and tau win out

[unreal nova]

It's literally all bad if you look from an outside view.

[spark helm]

The criteria is often just deflection.

[quick shell]

Simply because everyone else would shoot on sight

[fair shale]

Even Tau nowadays are 1984 pheromones imperialism cult.

[quick shell]

I hate this ngl

Let the tau be good

[fair shale]

It's 40k

[quick shell]

Yeah exactly

[fair shale]

If you want nuance and depth fantasy existed

[quick shell]

They’re such a small faction

If they were good it’d be a nice window into what the imperium could’ve been

[spark helm]

Like the imperium is disgusting. It's not even about who is worse, at least not to me. It's about actually seeing what is going for what it is.

[unreal nova]

Is just, depends on PoV who is good and who isn't.

[quick shell]

Yeah it is

And the pov is ‘the faction I’m looking at from pov is good, everyone else is bad’

[unreal nova]

There is no grey.

[quick shell]

At best small groups of humans tolerate small groups of aeldari or tau sometimes, and that’s about as far as you’ll get

[unreal nova]

Only black white.

[spark helm]

Like there is no world where the imperium is not one of the most nightmarish things possible.

They don't need to be drukhari to be cruel for fun and sustaining themselves.

[quick shell]

And that’s always more a representation of individual people than factions

[fair shale]

Love Deldar

[quick shell]

Imperium is a hellhole

Well

Sometimes it’s ok!

[fair shale]

If you're gonna be evil be so evil it's funny

[unreal nova]

Pleasure worlds?

[quick shell]

If you get lucky and get a world that isn’t mega shit

[spark helm]

Still part of the imperium

[quick shell]

Like Tanith before it was lost sounded pretty decent for example

[quick shell]

And?

There’s still places and planets that are pretty good

[spark helm]

"And?"

[quick shell]

They aren’t all atoma

[spark helm]

It's an empire.

Literally.

[quick shell]

An empire so large parts of it literally fall off the map

And get forgotten about

[spark helm]

You can be living in a cozy part of an empire. You're still part of the empire.

[unreal nova]

Well, in Star Wars, the empire is an empire but the worlds differ and depends.

[quick shell]

Yes, the imperium is shit

As I’ve said

But there’s still places in it that aren’t too bad to live in

[unreal nova]

It's still better than the shitholes though.

[fair shale]

Better to live is most likely still dogshit by our standards tbqh

[spark helm]

You can be disconnected. You're still part of it. Whatever webway blocks or whatever that are being protected consciously or unconsciously are still going to be subject to imperial enforcement the moment the right things happen.

Your cozy world can end up getting tapped by whatever the hell is going on in space and assuming you aren't wiped out first, the imperium getting a chance to ever show up can also just deem you unfit to even exist anymore and you're gone.

[unreal nova]

Heard pleasure worlds are great... if you are allowed to go to one.

[quick shell]

I think there’s meant to be some places that are actively good to live at, but they’re obviously rare and likely at the fringes of the imperiums control

[fair shale]

For the person who is being pleasured or for the servants?

[unreal nova]

For those allowed the luxury.

[fair shale]

Which would be a very small group.

[quick shell]

Rogue trader janris talking about how shooting heretics isn’t much different from shooting serfs at his grandmothers birthday moment

[spark helm]

And if you're allowed to live, the fact that you got tapped is grounds for your planet to now experience the rest of the oversight needed to get things "in line"

Hell, you don't even need to be part of the imperium. You can be a group of enslaved humans that manage to rise up together or whatever to overthrow your oppressors and some golden gilded asshole will show up, cristen someone as a champion then guess what?

Fall in line or die. Doesn't matter what the deals were. That power was always about control and turning people into subjects.

[sudden cedar]

Conditions in Ultramar are generally better compared to the rest of the Imperium.

[fair shale]

Better is loose

Ultramar has the ultra secret police

People just live a little longer on average iirc

[calm shard]

or under TAU CONTROL BABY

Gue'vesa supremacy

At least until GW decides they aren't grimdark enough again and shoehorn in some vague subtext about mind control

[crude wind]

sounds like Xenos propaganda to me

[umbral scaffold]

I think I will uh

Use an ILG on my stealth vet

For the funnies

I had forgotten I have this BOMB-ASS skin

Emp bless.

[serene bough]

I wish I purchased the first skin introduced to the ilas, the red and white one that looks like an amalgamation of scrap metal

I havent seen it since the first week of the game's release

[mystic pilot]

Tactical axe. which one to take for second blessing (Tier 1 row)

[tall torrent]

Headtaker

[narrow frost]

@tall torrent thoughts on HT plus shred for faster crusher ttk

[mystic pilot]

now that leave empowering it to max

[tough nova]

Bromentum feels like bait on taxe I went ht shred and haven't looked back

[hollow ibex]

Why? It’s good

[past peak]

Been using it ever since I got the Armageddon bundle it came in

[narrow frost]

I don't agree with the 1st part but I do on the 2nd

I haven't used BM in a few months

[tame lodge]

Only crazy people would drop brutal momentum

That being said

[narrow frost]

So many classes now have crazy crit synergies

[tame lodge]

I'm crazy

MAH MAN

https://tenor.com/view/cat-high-five-high-five-gif-gif-11749178764953808365

[steep flower]

I don’t use it either on it

[fair shale]

I like shred+HT depending on the gun tbh

Like i find shred+HT Taxe really good for gun scum where I'm primarily using it for single target damage into crushers or bosses or whatever

[unreal nova]

I mean, agile headtaker. Flees.

[tough nova]

Agile is fine for the weak spot dmg but im never starving for dodges on taxe

[narrow frost]

"fine"

[tame lodge]

Agile has weakspot damage?!?!?

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

[unreal nova]

Yes. It's just tiny.

I think 15%

[tough nova]

10%

[narrow frost]

So like 5 damage increase

Maybe 6

[mystic pilot]

finished mastery on infantry lasgun. Now on to spearhead boltgun

[unreal nova]

Nonexistent lul.

[tough nova]

More than that

[shell bane]

What perks should I put onto the dclaw for horde clear? I've got a +25% damage on unarmored but not sure what the second one should be

[narrow frost]

Do you know how the armor types work?

[tough nova]

It'll clear hordes without perks

[mystic pilot]

if the agile on a melee weapon do 10% extra. and the base damage is 100. that's 10 damage extra on a weakspot hit?

[shell bane]

Nope I just know I'm using it to hit unarmored enemies

[narrow frost]

It's not literal

Sadly it's not explained

But unarmored enemies are its own type of enemy, not enemies without armor

[fair shale]

That shit fucked me up forever tbh

[shell bane]

Well I gotta fill the slots somehow

[shell bane]

whar

[narrow frost]

Go to the test room and smack a few guys in different spots on their body

[tough nova]

Flak maniac and call it a day

[shell bane]

Welp time to dive into steam guides again

[narrow frost]

Above their head it will say what armor you hit

[shell bane]

Okay but what perks do I put onto it then

[narrow frost]

Depending on where you hit an enemy it will count as different armor class

Flak plus maniac/unyielding

You can check the guide in pins to see if path explains it more

[shell bane]

Okay thanks crew

[tough nova]

Additionally that's base damage there's also finesse multipliers for that weapon

[tame lodge]

Hordes are often made of Unarmored and Infested

[unreal nova]

No. If base is 100, weakspot is 150, the 10% only affects 50 damage so 5 extra on a weakspot hit. So 155 damage.

[tame lodge]

That being said

Dclaw does not struggle with those

[mystic pilot]

ah

[tame lodge]

With Rampage up a heavy sweep is able to kill 2 groaners if you hit their heads on the swing

And heavily damage a 3rd

[shell bane]

Savage sweep with wrath good on dclaw?

[tame lodge]

Wouldn't run Wrath

Savage Sweep Rampage
Shred Rampage

[shell bane]

Why not

[tame lodge]

Savage Sweep exists

Rampage exists

[shell bane]

Yeah I can see that they do but why would I take the damage over cleave if I already deal enough damage to kill hordes

Or do I need rampage for auric

[tame lodge]

Because the tooltip is wrong
Rampage isn't only damage

It's Damage, Cleave and stagger

[shell bane]

Oh okay cool then fair enough

[tame lodge]

Rampage is Strength, Fatshark forgot to change the tooltip a while ago

[tough nova]

Who was here for the pedantic debate on written tooltips vs coding rampage?

[faint beacon]

When do they not forget tbh lmao

[tame lodge]

I have a theory that they do it on purpose

And I'm pretty sure I can prove it

[tough nova]

Let's hear what you're cooking king

[unreal nova]

The guy writing the tooltips once said he did it so harder for ppl to minmax, right?

[steep flower]

Wrath is more consistent

[steep flower]

Shred & wrath is the way

[tough nova]

Rampage and shred every time

[tame lodge]

Yeah, consistent dogshit

Ay lmao

Gottem

https://tenor.com/view/goteem-go-team-happy-fun-sports-gif-4789485

[steep flower]

[tame lodge]

Yeah something along those lines

[steep flower]

Tfw no cleave

[tame lodge]

"Harder to min max? Who decided that?"

https://tenor.com/view/escanor-gif-1069445745883376549

[tough nova]

Try it you don't need wrath

[steep flower]

I did; i like to cleave more

• rampage is not dmg; its power

I hope they fix that tooltip

[tame lodge]

Cleave addict spotted
Me with my 110+ cleave Cleaver

🗣️

[tough nova]

He's got a problem and the only answer is more cleave

[quick shell]

Me, putting sunder on my power sword

[steep flower]

Only time wrath is outclassed is on Hswords, Evicerators & Bonesaw
Rest is best with wrath

Oh ye and Psword

Forgot it had it too for some reason

[tough nova]

You would use wrath on the pickaxe

[steep flower]

Forgot about that one too

[tough nova]

You nut

[steep flower]

[tame lodge]

You wouldn't use Wrath on Relic Blade

Listen man
You like wrath
I don't like wrath
Doesn't matter what we say to each other
It ain't going to change

[steep flower]

I do; more consistent especially if you have to vent; same for falchion

[steep flower]

Its not that i like it
I know its best for consistency of a weapon its used on

[tame lodge]

And I know it's shit

So I don't use it

[unreal nova]

Has Wrath on FGS.

[steep flower]

[tough nova]

I switch between wrath and precog on dat 1

[tame lodge]

Warp Splitting Exists

[unreal nova]

You mean, funny sword stroking.

Because I also have warp splitting.

[steep flower]

Or can switch it & use that talent elsewhere; melee psyker likes alot of talents

Why i cannot hold all these talents?!

[tame lodge]

Or you can just not use it

You know

Infinite cleave special

[steep flower]

Ah ye; abuse puncture like a pepega
Thats an option too

[tame lodge]

See
Wrath = Shit

I should make a slipknot parody of it

🎶 Come on down, and see the idiot right here
Too fucked to beg and not afraid to care
What's the matter with cleave anyway 🎵

I'll do that later

Maybe 2027

[last marten]

I'm cleaving I'm cleaving

[faint beacon]

See this is why Falchion is ass

Only wrath for cleave and no strength blessings

[tame lodge]

Please Fatshark
Take all of the Falchions ass and give it to Wrath

https://tenor.com/view/picklejuicelover69-gif-1483426411005875907

[faint beacon]

Please Fatshark

Just make it a more enjoyable weapon to use

[tough nova]

Lots of weps need a blessing shuffle. I know there will be strong and weak blessings but some just don't make sense.

[unreal nova]

Some are just beyond useless lul.

[sudden cedar]

Achlys Combat Axe..

[unreal nova]

Have you tried it on scum with 18% aspd and on red/blu junkie stim?

Cos I know it makes Rashad hilariously funni.

[sudden cedar]

Why would i waste so much on stamina

[quick shell]

Because it gives u atkspd

[still dove]

where's the video of that double barrel build cole made

[unreal nova]

Because funni.

[mystic pilot]

tactical axe mastery finished, combat blade next!

[frigid rover]

oh, i thought i read that the +attack speed from stamina wasnt work properly with stamina curios at some point

[steep flower]

Ahmed Combat Axe

[distant plaza]

this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1TPxeSgUCc

[still dove]

yes

im using it rn and played with no sound and almost got a mil damage

fire build lol and i never used the shotgun

[frigid rover]

infinite cleave go brrrr boom

which honestly, boom is the superior form of infinite cleave

[still dove]

just need to max this out smh

[crisp cloak]

what melee weapons would yall recommend for vet

[sonic kayak]

Obligatory PSword

[crisp cloak]

also what are the combos for dueling sword cause I can't figure out whether I should just only be heavy attacking or if I should use lights

[sonic kayak]

It's just very strong

Shovel is fine, tac axes, knives, DClaw is fun but for masochists

Rashad is strong too (not a fan of any axes)

Chaxe is.. there

[crisp cloak]

for... masochists?

does it just suck?

[sonic kayak]

Piss poor armor damage; the only thing going for it is the parry which costs stamina, and if you time it badly, your life

The parry is fun though

[distant plaza]

almost anything but power sword and dclaws

[crisp cloak]

doesn't dueling sword also have parry?

[sonic kayak]

That's only a recent change

The DClaw used to be the only weapon with a parry

[crisp cloak]

wow so they really gave the one distinguishing factor for the dclaw to one of the most popular weapons

[sonic kayak]

Yep

[crisp cloak]

I can't comprehend why they would have made this decision

[blazing jetty]

Dueling sword's parry has a slight delay though

It gets interrupted if you have a bunch of enemies swinging at you

[quick shell]

Dueling sword is just heavies to kill big targets, that's kinda it's entire thing

Psword is insane damage, a lot of people dont like it because it's been strong for a long time, and is very unique in how it plays

[unreal nova]

Panic light spam if horded cos lul.

[quick shell]

gently tickle the horde

[silver patrol]

it must be arguably the worst horde clear melee, at least for vet

[quick shell]

yeah

i really want to like dsword

but fuck me it's so ASS

[unreal nova]

Well, they die... one by one.

[crisp cloak]

ok the plasma gun does not appear to be one shotting gunners which feels off

do I need a specific modifier?

[quick shell]

flak unarmoured + gets hot

[unreal nova]

Unarmoured+flak, I think.

[distant plaza]

ES baby yeah

[tough nova]

Crazy ain't it

[still dove]

getting used to the shotgun its wayy more fun than plasma

[slender elm]

So many fucking recon laser dots on hordes in asia

And also gun scum plague

Fucking hell

[silver patrol]

while true, the dsword's parry is nowhere as good

arguably doesn't even do that much for the dsword

[crisp cloak]

Combat shotgun?

It seems pretty fun

[quick shell]

combat shotguns are strong

always have been

[hollow ibex]

Definitely not

They were pretty trash

And then FS buffed them when arbi came out

Except for assatran

And assatran still sucks

[quick shell]

I remember kantrael being good way way back in 2023

i think that's accatran now

[hollow ibex]

Yeah it got nerfed

[quick shell]

idk about on vet, i used it on zealot though to be fair

[hollow ibex]

And then never recovered

[fair shale]

Kant was just good for a different style of DT

When there were less enemies

And you could actually like, take cover and shoot some gunners with it

[hollow ibex]

Well when it was good

It had infinite cleave

Through shields and walls and shit

[fair shale]

Tbh even when it was good I used Agri IAG

[hollow ibex]

Then fatshart decided that only psyker should be able to do that

[quick shell]

zealot can still do it atm!

but yeah idk

I do sort of miss when the game wasn't just balls to the wall everything all at once right now in ur face

[slow sky]

I think this build would be better with plasma and duelling sword cuz those are better weapons

[distant plaza]

ok tanner

[austere mica]

Do they know?

[umbral scaffold]

Iffy on the mk9 ILG

Will try the funny blue one

[hollow ibex]

2 is the least shit

[primal zealot]

erm ds bad cus no bm

[vast spruce]

funny, I use carapace/flak. why unarmored?

[austere mica]

Dreg gunner 1 shot headshot

[vast spruce]

at what diff do you need the unarmored for that??

[austere mica]

Damnation maybe, havoc definitely

[vast spruce]

is carapace not an issue?

bigger, issue

[austere mica]

Carapace is not what you shoot at with plasma

Except for plasma gunner heads I guess

[vast spruce]

what do you shoot carapace with than? other than krak grenades

[austere mica]

You don't shoot carapace

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/death-korps-gif-27301605

[vast spruce]

uhhh... noted

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/alex-jones-gun-revolver-point-gif-17479939

[vast spruce]

i wonder how the lucius fairs at higher diffs

[austere mica]

The Helbore?

Its better than plasma

[vast spruce]

yea

[vast spruce]

on god?

[austere mica]

Better breakpoints
Better ammo
Easier to hit at range

[vast spruce]

I see

i find plasma a bit easier to use myself tbh

[austere mica]

Its just kinda clunky

[vast spruce]

i can kinda just point it at something, adjust for the timing which im already used to, turn a gunner or bomber or shotgunner or whatever into a black smear and instantly get back to swinging

[austere mica]

Oh I mean helbore

[vast spruce]

my aim with the lucius is a bit... unsatisfactory, probably because im used to adjusting ahead of the target for the delay

[vast spruce]

oh

yeah it kind of is

[austere mica]

Plasma is very very simple

[vast spruce]

whats the best helbore mark? the middle of the line for damage/firerate?

[hollow ibex]

Personal preference

(V is best)

[vast spruce]

is that the heaviest one..?

also, how's the power sword fair?

I'm new to all this top-difficulty super endgame stuff

[austere mica]

Its in competition for best weapon in the game

[vast spruce]

i do have lvl 30 vet and zealot but havent done any havoc missions because i cant find people to play with

[vast spruce]

competition with what..?

[austere mica]

Great question

I don't remember entirely but its probably winning

[vast spruce]

also on my power sword, is having 25% flak and 25% carapace good or should I get something else? i also plan to get lvl iv power cycler, an essential blessing i was told, and lvl iv brutal momentum, I only have lvl 3

[narrow frost]

time to kill agaisnt every enemy and how much it cleaves

[vast spruce]

im looking at builds online and theyre using... what are they using

slaughterer?

[narrow frost]

f

[vast spruce]

eh?

[narrow frost]

that was meta 3 years ago

[austere mica]

Power sword runs the mk6, with Unyielding and Carapace, with the blessings Power Cycler and either Sunder or Brutal Momentum

[vast spruce]

why unyielding and not flak if I may ask

[narrow frost]

there arent any flak enemies it cant 1 shot

[austere mica]

Because it already does hilarious damage

[hollow ibex]

Fastest one

[austere mica]

It doesn't need it

[vast spruce]

and what would you choose personally between sunder and brutal momentum?

[vast spruce]

ah fair enough

[austere mica]

I like sunder

It scales better into density

[vast spruce]

yeah I heard the stab is really good

[narrow frost]

sunder is better mixed horde clear but BM does more in pure trash clear

[umbral scaffold]

I am now filled with hatred

[vast spruce]

how so

[umbral scaffold]

For I could not see