veteran-class

[calm shard]

https://imgur.com/a/xdnQg7X this gun to be specific

[thorn lark]

is that the fast helbore?

[calm shard]

does 6500 damage to a crusher seem like the fast helbore to you

[thorn lark]

I have not played hb in 2 years...

[calm shard]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1172931856916807791/1386046428350255206/thebiter.gif

been missing out for 2 years smh...

but yeah no that's Mk IV helbore

slow one

[thorn lark]

formerly mk3 right?

[calm shard]

Mk V is a pretty consistent 2 shot into auric crushers tho

[calm shard]

I have no idea

I do not remember the old mark variants because I always just described their default color xd

[thorn lark]

ok there is fastish, slowish and slow

so it's slow

[calm shard]

yeah

the brown one

with the shit bayonet

[thorn lark]

ah yeah

this one

[night marten]

Does anyone else think the peek mechanic should apply to the side of cover not just over the top?

[silver patrol]

that would be smart

if anybody ever used the peek mechanic

or realized it exists

[night marten]

It's rarely used anyway, but it'd be a nice little addition to just quickly peek and take shots.

[thorn lark]

Ainslinn where art thou?

[turbid ibex]

Right behind you...

[trim badger]

Agrapina combat shotgun is actually goated fun

I'll be using it more often

[thorn lark]

it is

it is also very fun on psyker

[slate wave]

I want to like the Agrapina but I always fall back to my Helbore Las

[red portal]

I like the feel/mobility of the revolver more.

Too bad about the ammo economy on zarona.

[topaz lance]

I'm excited how well the revolver will play with the ganger since they seem to have good ammo economy abilities.

Dunno if they'll have a +25% ammo node though. Probably will.

[hollow ibex]

most likely

i think only psyker doesn't get it?

[rich aurora]

Zealot doesn't have anything to increase ammo

[hollow ibex]

oh yeah i think that's right

HIV looks to be way more of a hybrid class tho

so i'd expect them to get ammo

[surreal rune]

zealot might get a power axe?

[silver patrol]

what makes you think that

[rich aurora]

Don't give me hope

[silver patrol]

epic embedded failure

[rich aurora]

Yep

Classic IT performance

[silver patrol]

grey names can't post gifs/they don't get embedded

[rich aurora]

Even better

lol

[hollow ibex]

just yap more

and you'll get red

[silver patrol]

damn i sure hope they get a 2 handed axe

power or not

[hollow ibex]

vet 2h axew hen

[silver patrol]

game is really lacking in big fuckoff weapons imo

[rich aurora]

ty

Kinda curious how the rocket launcher's gonna compare to ogryn nuke nade

[silver patrol]

probably and hopefully enough to down a crusher on direct hit

[stuck gorge]

Probably going to be mostly impact dmg but with enough explosion dmg to kill trash and bruisers

[silver patrol]

ogryn's nuke kinda ass not gonna lie

it's not what it used to be

[rich aurora]

It's fun to chuck one with the Power Maul explosion blessing

[fierce tiger]

the kantrael does more damage the further away you are from your target. does the helbore also do that?

[silver patrol]

yeah

[fierce tiger]

what about recon?

[silver patrol]

irrc only infantry lasgun and hellbore have this inversed damage falloff

uhh what mark is that for the recon

because i see the opposite

[fierce tiger]

sorry, i looked at the wrong tab 🫤

my bad

[oak canopy]

im just getting into the game for real, i played a little bit when the game was pretty new and kantrael 12 and power sword were busted

whats up with veteran now?

im like, a somewhat fresh level 30

[silver patrol]

powersword still busted but less than it was at release

kantrael is the infantry lasgun?

[oak canopy]

ye

[silver patrol]

they suck

[oak canopy]

its over....

[silver patrol]

on the upside, hellbore is much better

[fierce tiger]

kantrael 12 is renamed to kantrael 9 now btw, just to confuse you

[oak canopy]

ive been enjoying the boltgun and my vraks autogun more than anything else

[silver patrol]

infantry autoguns and boltgun are both fine

plasma gun is maybe the strongest

i remember it was ass at release

[oak canopy]

i recall this too

[oak canopy]

neat

i messed around with it a bit but didnt find too much value in the overcharge?

[surreal rune]

i had seen this about

[silver patrol]

there is basically no value in overcharging yeah

i would ignore it

[pseudo fiber]

This one too

[silver patrol]

game needs more polearms in general

[crystal sable]

hell yes

[fierce tiger]

kantrael 9 (previously 12) sadly isn't that hot atm, but helbore 4 is really good. however, it comes down to your aim and ability to keep landing weakspot hits while under pressure

[crystal sable]

I miss the days of halberd mercenary

[silver patrol]

if the new class was the admech...

[crystal sable]

wait have they revealed the full loadout of the ganger yet

[silver patrol]

yeah

[surreal rune]

that is a sexy beast but these are quite old finds, no?

[silver patrol]

dual knives, the crowbar and a cleaver for melee weapons

[surreal rune]

i do hope they add a power axe

[crystal sable]

isn't there a power drill too?

[silver patrol]

i don't recall seeing one

[crystal sable]

there's some weird looking pistol thingy

[silver patrol]

that's a needlegun

[crystal sable]

oh

[silver patrol]

ranged weapon of course

[crystal sable]

I might be a little daft

[fierce tiger]

colt pistol, uzi, and needle gun are the ranged weapons we've seen

[crystal sable]

I thought they gave this karker a DeWalt XD

I'm jumping at the crowbar though

[fierce tiger]

no idea if hive scum can use stuff like catachan, etc..

[silver patrol]

the uzi is just double shredder irrc

[crystal sable]

stub pistol has me excited

[silver patrol]

oh yeah and that cool pistol

[hollow ibex]

stub pistol?

you mean the m1911?

[crystal sable]

I imagine they'll have most of the autoguns (shredders, revolvers, shotguns and autoguns)

melee though?

God emprah knows

[rich aurora]

Double las pistol?!

[silver patrol]

as if

i don't think they will have any lasgun

but could be, definitely not a double laspistol tho

[crystal sable]

I hope they stick to the more commonplace stuff

[silver patrol]

i hope they get some necromunda stuff

or a powerspear

eventually, in the future

[fierce tiger]

and i want them to only have unique weapons, not any of the shared ones hides

[silver patrol]

they 100% are going to have autoguns, single shredder, maybe revolver

[crystal sable]

valid, but if it was unique only, only having 3/category would be a huge fumble

[silver patrol]

shotguns maybe

[slate wave]

Praying for chain glaive

[crystal sable]

I could see them getting the double barrels

[fierce tiger]

definitely. speaking of which, arbites could get some more unique ones. seems hive scum will have 1 more unique melee and ranged than arbites launched with

[silver patrol]

and it's not like arbites' unique weapons are particularly inspired either

[hollow ibex]

shistol's unique (it sucks)

[silver patrol]

shot pistol is definitely the most unique

i love the arbites maul but it's literally just another powermaul and maul with shield is just that

[hollow ibex]

asm is just a dsword shaped as a maul

and then arbi also gets maul, but with shield

and shotgun, but pumped

[silver patrol]

yeah would have loved some more unique stuff

like the flail or the rams

[thorn lark]

bolter too

[oak canopy]

please give me van saar skin

id kill someone for this

[thorn lark]

bolter used to not be able to os a sniper with one round and without unarmored if you were too close

[pseudo fiber]

From like February I think

[raw tendon]

am I the only one who bayonet charges with the hellbore lasgun?

[spark helm]

No. It used to be much better and people loved to post about it.

[short agate]

Fix bayonets!

[spark helm]

I never cared for bayonet personally.

[slate wave]

Gotta use that pointy knife on the end of the Helbore for something and why now just poke peoples necks out

[raw tendon]

Ah ok It's just that I use it alot

[raw tendon]

CHARGE

[spark helm]

I just shoot them up close tbh. Or do something cooler while firing. I think whatever mark i use isn't a charge but a cut

[short agate]

Sah!

[raw tendon]

SAH!

[raw tendon]

ah ok

[spark helm]

Fwiw I missed out when bayonet was better because I wasn't used to helbore and hated it for a little bit. Purely skill issue really.

Was having a hard time playing with darktide's bow weapon basically.

[short agate]

Its more like if your squad let's you helbore you get to

[rich aurora]

Wish they'd bring back OG power sword / Brutal Momentum

[slate wave]

Oh the slash sucks, the Mark is far better for ADS shots but the bayonet is so bad…why the fast shot Helbore is a great quick poke with the bayonet

[raw tendon]

I like it for a quick usage for QCB if I can't switch to melee

[slate wave]

I mean I just run a Krieg set up of Helbore and Shovel and took the quick swap for the memes so…not really a worry I just start poking if I need to reload

[short agate]

Shovels pretty fire sometimes man

[silver patrol]

doing the special is probably slower than switching to your melee and stabbing

[raw tendon]

fair enough, however I am british so I like bayonet charging

[raw tendon]

fair honestley

[slate wave]

Bless the shovel and its bonk sound

[dapper coyote]

Chat how i do use Hsword?

[raw tendon]

I'm so emotionally attached to that shovel

[dapper coyote]

With what blessings, perk and dump stat and what variant usually used?

Because i like swords.

[raw tendon]

Hell yea, he's literally me

[dapper coyote]

My vet is literally named Radzig, from KCD2, Lord Radzig Kobyla

[raw tendon]

mine is just Mikel

[dapper coyote]

I need a 2 handed sword to complete the set

[raw tendon]

that would be badass

[hollow ibex]

VI if you're a chad, IX if you want to be boring but have the "best" mark

[dapper coyote]

Gotcha, dump stat?

[hollow ibex]

uh mob iirc

[dapper coyote]

Ok

[hollow ibex]

nvm

defenses

i don't think it has mob

deathblow HT for blessings

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1412646795728654357/7F905E1.MP4?ex=69208b19&is=691f3999&hm=0fb3ca5ea66a5aaf1512fca82dd3aee6901cfde7302096c011d3f325ec8f28d9&

hsword can be fun

[last pewter]

sorry why is VI for the chads

[hollow ibex]

cuz it's cooler

[last pewter]

I've never used duels lol

[hollow ibex]

talking about the hsword

[last pewter]

ah

ok I've especially never used those either

[hollow ibex]

they're ok still

if you have kraks

[last pewter]

they're like really specced towards crowd clear from what I remember

[hollow ibex]

yeah

it takes like 12-15 seconds to kill a crusher

assuming continuous weakspot hits

[sharp epoch]

rotten armor crushers would be even worse

[dapper coyote]

Hmm

Hsword needs anti Crushers, yeah, i got a couple of anti crusher tools on my hand.

[rich aurora]

You can block Crusher overheads with the DS MK5 on Zealot

[sharp epoch]

I mean if it did that it would be one of the best melees in the game

hordeclear + anti armor + decent mobillity

[last pewter]

I am a pretty big fan of parrying big hits ngl

[dapper coyote]

What im saying, i can cope with alternative anti crusher options

Like revolvers, Cshotguns(ish), HBs, Plasma, Kraks, Bistols, Bolters

[serene bough]

There just needs to be more ranged options specifically for deleting carapace armor in order to make melee weapons that struggle with armor viable

Bc currently the best melee weapons are basically defined by

1. How does this deal w/ armor
2. How does this deal w/ mixed hordes

[turbid ibex]

and 3. how does this help me avoid taxes

[serene bough]

Point tax is an aspect but id argue its less influential

Blessing pools are more important as a tertiary aspect imo, see uncanny strikes

[turbid ibex]

i wasnt even talking about that but yeah true

[serene bough]

Oh you meant literal taxes lol

[thorn lark]

7 is gigachad

6 is fake chinese katana

9 has excellents lights and for some reason a lower dmg h2

[hollow ibex]

I don’t like that the h1 isn’t an overhead

[woven oak]

Okay, I tried DSIV for a few games and went back to power sword. I missed being able to kill things quickly.

[hollow ibex]

I see you like having horde clear on your melee…

[woven oak]

And killing elites, and bosses...

[willow prairie]

you mean the one with non shit movesert

also vt2 update real!

[woven oak]

My big issue with Vet is that I struggle to survive. There feels like very little room for error as compared with other classes, even Psyker.

[willow prairie]

when youre caught lacking youre guaranteed to die yeah

[hollow ibex]

Psyker is ez mode and unironically tankier lol

[willow prairie]

but raw damage make up for it

[fair shale]

Vets great

I either play perfectly or I don't gotta worry about it anymore

[woven oak]

Psyker should not be tankier

:(

[fair shale]

Psyker is dumb tanky rn tbh

[hollow ibex]

Fatshart disagrees

[woven oak]

Space wizard should not be tankier than space fighter

[willow prairie]

space wizard cast barrier

[fair shale]

Like my entire psyker gameplay is just Frontline FGS and I am not taking damage

[willow prairie]

john infantry dont have shit

anyway mirror dungeon

[woven oak]

I am bad at the game. I need ez mode. D:

[willow prairie]

play vt2 to get good

(real)

[hollow ibex]

Learn by suffering

[woven oak]

H40 with randoms is all the suffering I can handle

[fair shale]

H40 with randoms gotta be better than h27 with randoms

Saw a 3 wound zealot last night

Not like 3 extra wounds martyrdom

[woven oak]

At least at H40 I don't have to worry about deranking

[fair shale]

Yeah, lucky you

[gray island]

3 wounds isn't that egrigious, is it? They're just not trusting that they can't avoid going down at least once.

Now 4 wounds on the other hand...

[fair shale]

You don't run wounds anymore tbh

Back before medi stimms and everything else you did

[formal ice]

Wounds do jackshit to help you live

[woven oak]

Wound is very bad.

[formal ice]

Only annoys your teammates

[fair shale]

But an extra wound is just eating toughness or hp or anything else

Like actually anything else lol

All an extra wound says is "I expect to die"

[woven oak]

It's a slot that could go toward more health or toughness, and it makes green stims weaker.

[tall torrent]

Yea power sword da way

[formal ice]

Clearly, thats why I am leaving you to die when you have 5 wounds as veteran

[gray island]

Med stimm heals a wound or 25%, whichever is greater. So why would an extra wound make green stim weaker? Just answered my own question like a dumbass lol

But yeah, their existence does make wound curio less worth

[willow prairie]

anything below 40 is gambling

[fair shale]

Havoc tilts me in the same way playing deadlock does lmfao

[willow prairie]

i dont find havoc that stressful tbh

[fair shale]

Its not that its stressful

Its that it makes me irritated by the things other people do and my own inability to literally carry them

[woven oak]

The corruption healing aura and vet's corruption healing medkit thing both only work up to your current wound, so having more wounds makes them potentially less effective as well.

[uncut pewter]

Biggest red flag I ever saw was 5 wounds ogryn in H20 once

[steel barn]

Ngl I really wish we could get the legs from these Vets on the class selection screen. Like I know we can get similar ones where it's the same camo with different boots but I don't like how bulky those boots are on the wearable ones

Idk if we can get that chest piece either actually, only a similiar one

Black Lasgun would be pretty cool to have too

[versed mural]

Huh yeah I never realized those legs have smaller boots on them

[pseudo fiber]

the chest piece is in the penance pass

[spark helm]

Check commissary. It's therw.

Or should be

[steel barn]

I noticed it a while ago on the darktide store page screenshots but didn't realise they where still in game, here. Makes me sad we can't get them

Prefer the smaller boots over the bigger ones

[spark helm]

Chest piece is available too

[versed mural]

Right?? They look so clunky

I can’t imagine anyone actually moving around and fighting in them

[steel barn]

The chest pieces we can get aren't the exact same as that, they're slightly different. There's like extra straps over the torso on the penances one

[steel barn]

Exactly yeah, it just looks kinda silly imo

[steel barn]

These are as close as we've got, with the silly oversized boots

[spark helm]

I'm saying check commissary for the pants because they should definitely be available.

[steel barn]

They're not, lookin at the comissary stuff right now

There's a variety of camo pants but none in black/grey and none with the same kind of shin guards

[steel barn]

For the Torso though, these are as close as we can get. The Arlo Thomasson Battledress is the closest we can get but it's got the extra straps and pouches, and the knife is missing.

[spark helm]

Ah right neutral colors are in the penance

Wait

Aren't those pants in the promo the pants from the infiltrate penance?

[steel barn]

Close but still a different camo

[spark helm]

Yeah mottled neutrals

[fair shale]

Nah

Theyre deadeye(?) but slightly different

[ocean idol]

Can someone share/link the best melee vet build?

[hollow ibex]

The build TM

[ocean idol]

weapons though?

[fair shale]

Powersword

The best melee weapon on vet and in DT

[ocean idol]

I feel like power sword does not combine well with weapon spec

[willow prairie]

lmao

no

[fair shale]

https://tenor.com/view/the-big-lebowski-thats-like-your-opinion-man-gif-15076479

PS is dumb good tho

I use PS on WS vet a lot rn

[hollow ibex]

PS benefits immensely from dodge buff and extra attack speed is always good

[tall torrent]

It does

[spark helm]

WS benefits just about every melee weapon with degrees of impact. The best melee weapons for veteran go into overdrive because of it pretty regularly.

In the case of ps, even half an empowered combo guarantees ranged specialist starting off stronger every time. Unironically core to the flow the ws in spades.

[crimson wyvern]

failed at the "destroy the tanks bit" at the end of dark communion this game

we just all died before we could destory the tanks

[hollow ibex]

Ooof

[crimson wyvern]

idk how much damage they take but i threw about 8 shredders a few charged hellbores a few swipes and still no movement

[hollow ibex]

I think you gotta melee them

Or shoot with a high rate of fire gun

Otherwise it’ll take a while

[thorn lark]

i did a sniper event with a purga psyker and a flamer zealot

fuck yeah

[tall torrent]

They’re meant to be melee’d usually

[thorn lark]

we finished as a trio

[tall torrent]

They take far less damage from ranged

Krak will 1 tap them tho

[spark helm]

Empowered melee attacks usually do a really good job.

[tall torrent]

Kinda funny how that works

[crimson wyvern]

i couldn't get close to them, my entire team had downed/DC'ed and had a huge elite/specialist horde following

so tried to range them

[fair shale]

Hey, you do run unyielding/Cara on the Agri CS right? I was thinking about it and I just do not shoot at Cara enemies with this thing.

[spark helm]

Ah yeah

[fair shale]

I either krak em or PS em

[spark helm]

What gun did you have you?

[tall torrent]

No

[crimson wyvern]

Hellbore, always run hellbore

[fair shale]

Thank god, alright

Maniacs/Flak?

[spark helm]

Mm

[fair shale]

Maniacs/Unyielding?

[crimson wyvern]

To be clear I know this isnt meta and I know this is a bit of zain

But that game I didnt feel like I did that badly gameplay wise, and the scoreboard backs me up atleast

[tall torrent]

Yea

[fair shale]

Appreciate you

I was like "there's no fuckin way"

"Not with krak and PS"

[ocean idol]

and ranged?

[fair shale]

I'm weird and like combat shotgun

[versed mural]

I love the red and grey color combination of that set

[ocean idol]

which one

[fair shale]

That build set up works for all sorts of stuff

[ocean idol]

also what is weird about it

[fair shale]

Slug, Agrip

Its not HB, Vigilant, DB, or Revo

[ocean idol]

Slug primary fire has too low damage for my taste

[fair shale]

It'll one tap maulers to the chest with a crit ime

[ocean idol]

Primary fire or special?

[hollow ibex]

It’s actually pretty insane

[fair shale]

I believe I've experienced it with the primary but it was in a very chaotic situation.

[hollow ibex]

Has really high finesse

[fair shale]

Crits like a truck tbh

[hollow ibex]

Yeah slug finesse is stupidly high

Headshot crit nukes everything in the game short of bosses

[steel barn]

Yeah same, looks really good. It's why I wish we had the actual pants so much tbh, with the better looking shin guards/boots

[versed mural]

I think veteran has the best cosmetics tbh

Psyker is a close second

[fair shale]

Id kill for this

[steel barn]

Oh yeah that would be cool tbh

[ocean idol]

What is the point of mk3 boltgun?

I want Kasrkin outfit

[steel barn]

Vet and Zealot imo, some of the Psyker stuff is cook but I always see myself liking Zealot more. Otherwise yeah, Vet got the best usually

[ocean idol]

Also what are 2 boltgun builds?

One is surgical + bleed, right?

and the other shattering + what?

[narrow widget]

pinning fire puncture

[ocean idol]

not shattering?

[hybrid plover]

Shattering isn't that good

[stiff glacier]

I like shattering plus surgical

[ocean idol]

Zealot:
up to +25% for next attack from disdain

+20% on infested and unyielding from Purge the Unclean
+20% from sustained assault
+15% to elites from Abolish Blasphemers
+10% melee damage boost node
+50% from Martyrdome for 5 missing wounds and +30% attack speed OR +25% crit chance + 10% from Prime Target OR +20% attack speend and damage from Inexorable Judgment
+10% attack speed from Faitful Frenzy
plus duelist (+50% to weakspot)

not including potential +20% from desperaton (too situational) and backstab bonus damage talents

Vet:

+10% attack speed Trench FIghter
+15% elites from Superiorty Complex
+15% melee damage boost node
potential +25% crit chance reciprocity
+10% melee crit chance from desperado
+30% to weakspot
Potential +25% from agile engagements (have to constalty switch to keep it up)

Why people say that vet has higher melee damage

i don't see it

Zealot much superior

[silver patrol]

you are missing skirmisher

[ocean idol]

+24% skirmisher

still zealot way better

not counting his very spammable ult

[fierce tiger]

alright, what are key talents for recon lasgun vet then?

[ocean idol]

Onsalught for sure

everything that adds rending

That is if you want to use recon agfainst everything

i personally don't

[fierce tiger]

is it really all about rending still?

[slow spade]

No

Rending only helps up to roughly 25%

onslaught is not that good as you shouldn't need to shoot that much anyways

Ideally you just use your melee vs carapace

Better off getting agile, skirmisher, and the other node right on Onslaught

Gives +70% damage for playing normally

[ocean idol]

is agile really playing normally

[slow spade]

Yeah?

[ocean idol]

also you really need to stack skirmisher

[slow spade]

"You need to slide or run"

Oh no how taxing

[void dragon]

I feel that the reason lies in the weapons, Zealot has solid weapons but in opinion of some they need a small buff, but veteran has not only solid options but the damned Psword, which put so much damage that it makes veteran outshine the zealot in TTK even new crushers

[slow spade]

They also forgot the 20% damage node on melee crit node

[sharp epoch]

I feel like on paper vet seems very good with psword, but theres a lot of weaknesses like once your separated its very easy to die with your mobillity and conditional tdr

[slow spade]

Thr fucking "on kill" buffs + Havoc hp scaling 😭

[void dragon]

That's why you don't get separated stupidly, honestly that's an issue of a player more than the potential of the class

A class that not only has good melee but superb ranged prowess

[sharp epoch]

Yes, but it limits your options like zealot, arb, and ogryn can actually function independently in melee away from the team while youre sticking with the backline

[spark helm]

Veteran can definitely function separately in melee, especially with a power sword. The major problem can come when a player maybe messes up their rhythm or gets interrupted from a charge.

Best thing that can fix some of that is something as simple as buffering block cancels and charges and hitting 360's, managing shoves and weaving charges again.

Without a power sword? Totally doable as well.

[fierce tiger]

what blessings do you recommend on power falchion? :3

[void dragon]

People think that Psword slow mobility profile is such a drawback (it is) but they forget how good it's damage Vs any target is when you sustain the loop, a loop that can interrupt FRIGGING ragers out of their combos

Not to mention that you can use stuff like the godly LasPistol for mobility

[sharp epoch]

Ehh when your team is not with you, you lose 33% tdr, if you get shot once you lose 50% tdr and essentially have zero tdr. So you're just gonna get blown up by any shooter or if a melee hit lands on you

[void dragon]

No one is saying that veteran is more tanky than the other classes

[spark helm]

I get that. I'm just saying that in those situations, the foresight is going to be what definitely carries someone through that. We're talking about a class that hasn't begun to even consider dropping a single ability that has dominated its presence. It even has ranged options that it can switch to that force pockets and punch through waves of enemies to even drop shooters through hordes.

If you got a line of shooters, regardless if one is a veteran or not, those shooters take a large priority almost immediately every time.

[void dragon]

The "it has ranged options" is the key, because that distance before melee engagement IS a form of damage prevention that zealot doesn't have in its perk tree kit

[spark helm]

magdumping a plasma gun for example has been an emergency strategy ever since the thing dropped, even when it was easy to die to reckless firing overheating the thing. Veteran also just has a keystone that inspires all the hallmarks of damage steroids that compliment these things too.

[ocean idol]

i dunno, relic seems to me just as good?

[hoary horizon]

Shovel is viable at any difficulty, and i mean the standard one that doesn't bend

[spark helm]

during all of this, demo team is gonna often be spinning too so a grenade being available is always going to be helpful. veteran very rarely is operating on a total exhaustion of its resources

[void dragon]

Demo team needs some form of internal CD, that type of resource regeneration is one of the reasons it has escalated so wildly

[hoary horizon]

You never saw me play vet, but I always pull throught

[golden folio]

I mean…krak grenade regen can carry through rotten armor havoc, saying demo team is helpful might be an understatement lol

[spark helm]

Oh no, I was spot on. If anything, the killstreaks one can get out of just dumping their entire everything usually has instant returns. Veteran is absolutely a class that gets rewarded for creating its own momentum.

Like for example just off of the combo that is plasma gun and power sword in the most extreme in terms of powerful stuff vet has.

Best believe that some veteran doing even the slightest bit of intentional setup between rolling/throwing nades, charging some dudes and just cuting them down then bursting a horde already getting blown up with a plasma gun is more than enough. When it's even that hot, all of that I just mentioned can get extended even more off of one voc pop

[ocean idol]

ok so?

Initial topic was melee vet vs melee zealot

and saying it is just as good or even better is heavy copium

[spark helm]

Yeah itll still hold relevance.

Veteran is just going to be rewarded through its kit by giving itself its kills and pushing that momentum. Zealot will as well with its output, but it's also getting its sauce on tdr from basic defense.

[golden folio]

Melee vet doesn’t exist in a vacuum, no one is comparing a vet only using melee to a zealot only using melee

[spark helm]

Much more so than veteran imo.

Melee veteran in most cases is just real shit just hybrid vet.

It's not going to be at a loss on its ranged options. If anything it has to use those options in order to get more out of keystone bonuses.

Instead of passively gaining things, it has to proactively achieve those marks within itself.

[void dragon]

idk, 30 seconds to kill a crusher/mauler army for Psword agains 57 for IJ relic blade doesnt strike me as equally powerful

[spark helm]

You don't gain anything from any of vets keystone by just dodging. You gotta actually kill shit. Zealot often just requires you to not fuck up.

[golden folio]

To be fair this is more of an issue with zealots tree than the weapon itself. If vet got relic blade it would be as busted if not more busted than psword

[ocean idol]

That's such a long time tbh to kil la crusher, wtf ????

30 seconds???

[spark helm]

They said army specifically.

not a single crusher

[ocean idol]

Also zealot having now 3 different options for heavy CDR reduction pushes him so far ahead

[void dragon]

that's kinda why i feel that while Rblade needs small buffs, the real issue is the Psword damage potential, its off the charts

[void dragon]

crusher AND mauler ARMY

[spark helm]

And veteran has more flexibility when addressing those scenarios compared to zealot. What I mean by that is how narrow zealot can be by comparison.

[ocean idol]

Flexibility in what form exactly

[spark helm]

It's not using kraks, it doesn't have a 360 cc tool, it doesn't have a reliable ranged option compared to something like plasma gun in that scenario (specifically the execution), etc.

[void dragon]

the nades

the grenades that are a REGENERATING resource

[golden folio]

Vets right tree just has so many damage juices at barely any cost. Damage on sprinting, free crit, free finesse damage, extra damage on melee crit, brittleness, all next to each other for some reason. And then on top of that most buffs affect ranged damage and vet has some of the best nades that regen.

[spark helm]

For zealot, you're still just trying to get to point A from B as soon as possible to start doing your needed damage. If a zealo has more access to something like fire nades in that situation, that's probably because there's a veteran running demollition team nearby in coherency.

[void dragon]

honestly i feel the zealot grenades could use some buff, storm ones are ok for emergency stability but the fire could use some buff vs harder targets

those nades need to feel impactful since like ogryn dont have regeneration

they are only restored from pick-ups

[ocean idol]

Compared to zealot buffs, all of these are heavily conditional

[spark helm]

As an additional note, a good fire nade still requires the zealot to allow some portion of the mob its fighting to stay in the fire. Veteran just flails out some kraks, boom they chipped away already at the problem before ever reaching it. Or just drops them with headshots.

[golden folio]

Stun nades are cool but aren’t hivescum getting pocket stun that regens?

[spark helm]

These are conditional on a killstreak. And veteran isn't suffering for killing potential at any range depending on the gun being used.

It's actually extremely efficient if we're still talking about only power sword here.

[hybrid plover]

Zealots unconditional buffs don't even come close to vet's

[void dragon]

probably the duration and area will be substantially smaller, to address that, storm nades are quite powerful as they are now

[hybrid plover]

It's not even in the same playing field.

[fair shale]

Using PS after being on Arb vacation with their i can't one-shot anything melees feels so good

[spark helm]

Like the condition for veteran bottom right tree talents is like "use your weapon, get a kill, swap" and "dodge".

[hybrid plover]

And the "conditions" that vet has for bottom right are so applicable to general gameplay that they're barely even worth calling conditions.

[fair shale]

Bottom right tree for vet is "play the game correctly"

[golden folio]

Erm…I invite you to take a look at zealots tree beyond the keystones…besides two 10% melee nodes (vet gets one 15% node) 20%unyielding and infested, 15% elite (which vet gets) zealot has strict conditions for all their damage

[hybrid plover]

While a lot of zealots conditional buffs tend to revolve around specifically stealth related play

[ocean idol]

all zealot conditions are dodge once, and the rest is simply "hit enemy"

[void dragon]

what's for the other ones? mmf is "click heads" and Focus target "Teach team target priority order" ?

[hybrid plover]

What tree are you actually looking at here wrf

[ocean idol]

For comparison vet has "dodge multiple times", "kill enemy and then switch"

[golden folio]

Oof…please read zealots talent tree before making further comments

[spark helm]

Yeah and those things are extremely easy for it to do with one of its strongest loadouts and generalist talent spread.

[ocean idol]

In my list i specifically did not put in any stealth perks because those indeed too conditional

[hybrid plover]

It's been a known thing that zealot does not hold up right now since the rework

[fair shale]

Sure, all I know is that bottom right tree rewards you for doing what you should do be already be doing

[ocean idol]

i need some math guy to make excel spreadsheet

[hybrid plover]

Yes. And how many base damage talents does zealot really have after axing those from the equation?

[spark helm]

Like math or not, I'm talking about the execution here betwene either class while also talking about their nuances.

[ocean idol]

Look at my list? Fuckn shit tone? like 1.5 or even 2x more than vet?

[hybrid plover]

You're not reading the tree enough me thinks.

[ocean idol]

Martyr alone adds too much

[hybrid plover]

Zealot has the edge in survivability compared to vet. Not damage.

[golden folio]

20% Melee crit damage unconditional, unconditional crit chance and finesse damage, unconditional brittleness (on hit), easy conditional damage (on sprint/slide)

[void dragon]

49 seconds to kill the same army with martyr and stealth, whoever say that Zealot has same attack power as veteran is CRAZY

[spark helm]

Zealot has more interactable talents than veteran in spades if that's what you mean. but as far as ease of access to widespread efficiency? Veteran totally outclasses it.

[void dragon]

stupid Psword, why you have to be so BROKEN!

[spark helm]

Like it really has for a very long time. It's a tired point but extremely relevant since we were discussing some of the strongest options. In eteran's case, it genuinely has maintained the same kind of dominance with a particular sort of threshold of execution that makes great vets very clearly different than good vets and decent ones.

[hybrid plover]

Like idk why this is even an argument. Why not try to make zealot better right now? Because I really want to enjoy zealot more but its as obvious as night and day that they did not actually do enough with the rework regarding their raw killing potential to make it hold up against the other classes.

[golden folio]

Zealot doesn’t have to tools to “chase down” armored enemies in an elite horde besides flamer or fire nades. If you don’t one shot the crusher bro just rotates out and you’re stuck fighting his buddy in front

[ocean idol]

this is crazy talk to me whne martyr exists

[spark helm]

And the other ones running something like VoC, krak, WS, plasma gun and ps with the best in slot possibilities? Vet is lightyears ahead in that department.

[spark helm]

Veteran doesn't need to give up health to be more efficient.

[calm shard]

double barrel shotgun...

[hybrid plover]

Martyr is good. It's not enough to give zealot the edge it needs though.

[void dragon]

that's probably why stealth has grown in use so much even with relic blade you can oneshot crushers from H40

[golden folio]

Yes, I love giving up 2-3 curios and 75% health for some damage and attack speed

[calm shard]

hell yeah

[spark helm]

I'm not really trying to be an asshole so hopefully its't not coming off like that.

[calm shard]

though realistically with how much fucking TDR and replenishment that keystone gives you it's not really as big of a downside as it sounds

[atomic void]

yes i love being tanky as fuck and swinging a fast two hander like its a pocket knife

[hybrid plover]

Stealth is legit the best way to use zealot right now. And that's not a good thing.

[ocean idol]

"some"

[spark helm]

But veteran is like, in a very different class of its own compared to zealot.

[ocean idol]

"SOME"

[golden folio]

This is exactly why TH feels so good against armor and why stealth feels more efficient, you can more consistently hit one shots

[fair shale]

Dude's just rude tbh

Interact at your own risk

[void dragon]

i have used charge with Thammer to decent effect but BOY stealth is insane

[ocean idol]

why not

[spark helm]

I got next to no context rn and I'm not really thinking to hard about people's tone atm. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ocean idol]

i always wanted for stealth to be viable

But also i don't really see how it is the best way

[calm shard]

aggro dumping hurts your team a lot even if you don't stay in stealth longer than .5 seconds

[atomic void]

stealth has fat dmg and good tdr

[spark helm]

^

[ocean idol]

if they can't handle the aggro wtf they are doing

But also, why w ould you stay in stealth longer thna that anyway

[spark helm]

That has less to do about aggro management and more about the situation ig

[atomic void]

im pretty sure u dont insta aggro dump now
the correct way to play stealth is pop it and shank someone before u dump anything

[calm shard]

fighting 1/4 of the enemies and suddenly being jumpscared by the extra 1/4 that was attacking you

that's what they were doing

[golden folio]

No crit chance outside of keystones on zealot, so melee damage alone does less than you think. Attack speed is fun but you’re rate limited by dodge refresh rate more than attack speed, you often need to dodge after 1-2 attacks against an unstaggered enemy anyways

[hybrid plover]

Do you understand how dicey things can get with a stealth player dumping aggro? You can't predict what the AI is gonna do when that happens.

Even when I play shroudfield. I very sparingly use it for that very reason.

[void dragon]

aggro dump is a problem if you dont retake that aggro with the zealot aggresion

[atomic void]

charge is still kino if you know what you're doing

[void dragon]

that's on the player

[ocean idol]

just kill everything

[spark helm]

Less conscious shroudfield use can be disruptive and down to the player creating the situation and then them attempting to remedy it or just using it in the moment and still tackling the problem anyway. But reckless can cause a lot of issues.

[void dragon]

you jest, but that's kinda the spirit, the issue? some players dont do the retake aggro part

[spark helm]

If someone is setting up a shot on something on the side of an approach against enemies for example, a poorly executed shroudfield can just rin that shot

[hybrid plover]

You really haven't played zealot much, have you?

[livid sphinx]

Okay question. Why is a lot of vets using smoke in my games? Is it still considered griefing?

[ocean idol]

+204 levels

[spark helm]

Smoke just got better overall and people stopped being babies about it.

[calm shard]

it was only considered griefing before because of the placement on the tree

[ocean idol]

what got buffed about it?

[calm shard]

smokes have been a straight better psyker bubble for some time

[golden folio]

This is the right way to play stealth, use it to one shot a key target quickly and then go back to supporting your team frontline. Only time you should be in stealth for longer than a second or two is objectives or res IMO

[atomic void]

smokes literally turn off ranged enimies aka most annoying mobs to fight

[livid sphinx]

Ahh got it

[atomic void]

i want more smokes

[calm shard]

just not worth the skill points on the previously laid out skill tree

[void dragon]

the radius upgrade is now baseline and people realized that deployable cover is goated

[golden folio]

Malice or heresy?

[spark helm]

Behavioral interaction on shooters, in-smoke stagger and longer duration iirc.

Improved interaction on shooters rather.

[ocean idol]

I have played nothing but auric since forever

[distant plaza]

sadness is throwing a smoke thinking it was a krak/shredder -_-

[void dragon]

duration is the same, the radius is now baseline

[spark helm]

So it feels a lot more impactful and also has far better pathing for it than it ever did.

[ocean idol]

I geniunly don't remember last time i played anything but

may bel iek 2 years ago?

[spark helm]

Mm, thanks.

I'll review patch notes again just to brush up.

[spark helm]

...I don't want to talk about it lmao.

"Oh yeah this is a krak job"

☁️

https://tenor.com/view/stella-how-stella-got-her-groove-back-angela-bassett-um-umm-gif-18975321

"Fuck"

[distant plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/smokebomb-im-out-ready-to-fight-gif-15479694

[ocean idol]

jsut for perspective how stupid martyr is

I used relic sword not even knowing it is considered godly weapon

[livid sphinx]

I got so used to shredder that I keep throwing a krak on my team mate who is surrounded

[ocean idol]

well opportunity cost of other grenades still seems a bit high

[spark helm]

I play with a loose cannon personality so forgetting my gear and playing everything by ear is well...lol

[spark helm]

It's completely neutral on the pathing.

[hybrid plover]

416 here.

And I hate to say it. Zealot is genuinely not in a good place right now.

[ocean idol]

you are just a goblin

[livid sphinx]

Tbh i'm not even sure if krak is fine if you are rocking a plasma

[spark helm]

And each nade choice at this point in the game has a lot of viable case use.

[golden folio]

You can do anything in auric a single game with randoms doesn’t tell you much. A good vet should easily outdo a good zealot in terms of dps

[void dragon]

its situational, but if someone has the other smokes just become an insane pair to negate gunner gauntlets

[spark helm]

It's genuinely up to what you wanna do fr. Vet has to try hard to not be versatile.

It's like it's entire career lol

[livid sphinx]

Yeah true

[hybrid plover]

Like I actually want zealot to be better than it is right now.

[void dragon]

its because some of the perks in the tree feel in the wrong place? the weapons imo need a tune up to match the power needed but not by much

[spark helm]

Even if a vet might be narrowing down their potential at times with infiltrate, vet just pops out the oven with every flavor.

[livid sphinx]

Is infiltrate still considered griefing though

[narrow widget]

see we can accomplish this by removing vet from the game

strength is relative

[hybrid plover]

Also too many +damage talents with actually odd conditions that don't make them as applicable

[livid sphinx]

Cuz I swear its like the most selfish + useless skill of the three

[hybrid plover]

And really, hate to be the bearer of bad news. Relic blade is "good". Not "great".

[spark helm]

Maybe in high havoc but infiltrate really not out here being incapable. It was much more narrow in the past but could still put in the work. It's selfishness doesn't mean much here and its usefulness exists for the people that actually want to use it.

[void dragon]

i dont think those are THAT conditional for the way a zealot needs to fight, but the issue is that for a class that gives a lot in ranged combat its melee NEEDS to be goated

[spark helm]

If anything it got both better and worse

Like better to build stable pieces of a talent tree to not be totally strained on points, but also a little more commital on actually cycling the ability in the first place.

[void dragon]

this is NEWS?!!! people has gaslighted themselves to think Rblade is strong?

[narrow widget]

shout out my boy tactical awareness nerf 🗣️ 🗣️ 🔥

[spark helm]

Like unironically yeah. IT's not what I'd consider devastating but it definitely is felt.

Gotta push oneself just a little harder than before to keep spinning it as necessary even with solid killstreaks.

compared to like exestance or voc.

[hybrid plover]

Yeah. And those melee damage talents they get should be a lot more generally applicable so their melee damage can be goated.

Zealot's tree is just weird right now.

[spark helm]

With exestance just allowing you to keep it up even into the next available use.

And voc just being A Great Ability in Tide Games®

[calm shard]

thank god for shredders or infiltrate would be pointless

[hybrid plover]

And their melee weapons choices just don't provide enough to really justify how safe they tried to play it with their damage talents.

[void dragon]

the perk tree real issue outside of some number adjustmen is stuff like Punishment impact on weapons and perks like Grievous wounds that are just in THE weirdes places to be picked

[calm shard]

infiltrate damage boost applying to shredders is pretty great

and just about the one good thing for it

[spark helm]

I'd say that kraks and smoke can still make it work out fr but in terms of ease of access, 100% agree.

It's a lot easier to manage more with something like shredder just off the horde clear.

Shredder was like core in keystoneless recon las, combat blade infiltrate back then.

[golden folio]

Damage nodes are all spread out so tax nodes are all over the place. Every damage node beyond the basic ones everyone takes (unyielding, elite, flat 10%) has strict conditions that are often out of your control. Want to dodge? Nope your teammate staggered everything. Want to hit 5 enemies? Nope your team deleted the chaff. How about 15% against enemies not targeting you? How about you lose all your stamina for 20% damage?
At any given time half of zealots buffs are up at best and the other half is losing stacks or in the middle of building stacks so things rarely line up.

[void dragon]

as a stealth ops grenadier...can confirm

[spark helm]

Infiltrate still works very well with bleed interactions.

Just not too sure about bleed blessings rn because I genuinely haven't touched them in forever.

on vet specifically.

[hybrid plover]

Serrated with flesh tearer is crazy powerful.

[spark helm]

Still holds up? Good to know.

Not too surprising.

[void dragon]

by how complicated is sustaining them you would expect it to be big buffs SPECIALLY since in most cases is only melee what is being buffed

[spark helm]

Fuck...infiltrate veteran mentioned for too long

oh wtf

discord refreshed pft

[spark helm]

https://tenor.com/view/call-of-duty-black-ops-1-call-of-duty-black-ops-cod-black-ops-viktor-reznov-alex-mason-gif-1681414047243403443

There we go.

[hybrid plover]

Its better because you can use serrated to give yourself full uptime on bleeding procs, a single crit is 10 stacks and bottom right buffing base damage means it also buffs bleed DoTs too.

[golden folio]

Yeah looking at pure numbers zealots tree might look okay but when you think about how everything has its own individual stacks, conditions and duration it becomes a headache

[hybrid plover]

It's genuinely really strong right now.

[spark helm]

The Infiltrate Reinstatement Program. I can feel it slithering in my mind, digging into my skin, swimming in my blood.

I

I have TO CROUCH!

[void dragon]

honestly? i dont feel Zealot needs a lot of buffing, if anything Vet and Psyjerk has gone too far in power

[spark helm]

is bleed affected at all by skirmisher?

Just thought about that.

[hybrid plover]

Skirmisher AND Exploit Weakness.

It's stupid.

[spark helm]

https://tenor.com/view/gendo-neon-genesis-evangelion-anime-smirk-gif-14884772

[narrow frost]

and longshot iirc

[void dragon]

wait REALLY?

[spark helm]

I'll add this to my infiltrate propaganda talking points knowledge, ty fr. I almost never bothered to look that up specifically for skirmisher.

[narrow frost]

nevermind, it doesnt

unsure if it was changed with the rework

[void dragon]

thank the Emperor

[narrow frost]

but I have a memory from awhile ago that it did

[hybrid plover]

Nah it's every class but zealot by that metric. Zealot is the only true underperformer right now.

[void dragon]

underperformer, maybe.
but i dont believe because the class is lacking

[hybrid plover]

The other four are not nearly as far in viability from each other.

[golden folio]

This is why we have playtesters saying zealot is fine, while players complaining zealot is weak. Zealot is fine in the context of the games difficulty, but not fine when compared to other classes

[spark helm]

Kuli receipt check by any chance? My hands are fullish rn so i can't spend the extra time looking it up atm.

[narrow frost]

"stat buffs:
ranged_damage
ranged_damage_far"

DoTs arent ranged

[ocean idol]

what is the besat weapon for stealth zealot

[narrow frost]

anything that fits your playstyle or build better

[golden folio]

TH, knife, relic blade is most based IMO

[narrow frost]

There are alot of amazing weapons on zealot

[calm shard]

that they borderline can't use because they have very few ranged talents xd

[spark helm]

Personal faves and easy setups are like combat blade, thammer, relic currently, tactical axe, rashad, duelling sword

Definitely didn't expect relic blade to feel as good as it does but whatever. More chances for shroudfield is good enough for me at the end of the day

[golden folio]

Really, tac axe? Sounds interesting if you can post the build

[void dragon]

Imo i feel that while the weapons can do work they have something that needs buffed to be really powerful fit for a class that is all about melee, you think im wrong in that feeling?

[spark helm]

Afk at the moment but it's usually just another shroudfield skeleton running ij or blazing piety. Haven't tried it with martyrdom but I imagine it works there too.

[narrow frost]

all classes are melee focus. it comes down to playstyle

there are no class roles

[ocean idol]

I hate thammer being good for stealth with passion

[narrow frost]

zealot shouldnt get buffs because they are the "melee class"

[fair shale]

Giving me ptsd flashbacks to "vet must kill gunners"

[void dragon]

yeah but i feel that the Zealot exclusive weapons need a buff, not entirely on their peak damage but in some aspects like the low maniac damage of Thammer

[narrow frost]

people are so adamant about class stereotypes

[spark helm]

It's funny. I love it. And it's the shroudfield icon anyway so it's really funny.

[livid sphinx]

Well it is your priority

[spark helm]

And it has always been good for shroudfield. Basically dual dagger shade kerillian without the daggers.

[livid sphinx]

To shoot gunners

[narrow frost]

no

its not

thats your playstyle

[spark helm]

In terms of raw burst on backstab

[fair shale]

My priority is the trapper tbh

[narrow frost]

I never shoot gunners

I run at them with my melee weapons

[spark helm]

Just 1-2 shots all the time.

[livid sphinx]

I mean ofc if there are no other more immediate threats

[fair shale]

I normally melee gunners unless theyre elite gunners

[ocean idol]

Daggers were way quicker, did not require full charge

[livid sphinx]

But then I run with range damage reduction curias

[spark helm]

My point is about the specific output and role served, not the totality execution because yes that'd be in part.

[fair shale]

The elite moebian regiment suddenly missing all their shots cause I'm sliding at them

[livid sphinx]

And exe stance

[narrow frost]

I even run melee with ex stance

it all comes down to playstyle

[golden folio]

Except zealot gets 1-2 ranged buff talents so it’s the de facto “melee” class by necessity. In that case why not give zealots the same ranged buffs as any other class?

[narrow frost]

once again, its playstyle

I have a few friends that are backline zealots

[spark helm]

And thrust isn't really that deep of a sink in terms of commitment. If anything shade kerillian could easily find opportunities to charge a melee while dodging to more seamlessly drop targets.

[narrow frost]

that stay in the back and special snipe and have stealth for clutch and obj

[fair shale]

DT is literally built on a melee engine, I think using primarily a ranged weapon is fundamentally flawed

[golden folio]

That is…a playstyle for sure…

[narrow frost]

yeah

[livid sphinx]

If you use vet with a plasma, you can actually stay using ranged like 3/4 of a game

[ocean idol]

now what nickname should i make for my degenerate ganger

SefoniEnjoyer?

SefoniPleaseMoan?

[ocean idol]

or with recon

[spark helm]

And even with thammer, you can still get your backstabs. If anything it can actually be extremely free because you're wholly cleaving with backstabs same as pious backstab on relic blade. It's actually a lot safer even without the backstabs since both weapons have better horde clear than combat blade

[livid sphinx]

Yeah with recon too

[fair shale]

Tbh man recon vets have a whole other set of problems

[livid sphinx]

Some recon vets dont know how to switch weapons when they're surrounded by trash

[spark helm]

So shroudfield thammer now especially is a lot easier to maintain a flow with through martyrdom because of the juicy tdr, attack speed and dmg.

[ocean idol]

that is?

[fair shale]

I'd say most ngl, recon vets are notorious in the same way smykers are for not swapping

[fair shale]

Most of em are way too reliant on the gun and shoot it at things they really shouldn't

Like crushers

[spark helm]

Relic blade falls behind it in this way in terms of pure damage on that backstab, but it's also a much more readily flexible weapon by comparison on the moveset without really losing good damage any zealot would want for general use.

Shroudfield feast.

[fair shale]

Ik you aren't gonna run out of ammo, but you also don't have to try to use all of the ammo lmao

[livid sphinx]

Do people use recon with exe that highlights ranged trash?

[fair shale]

I have no idea tbh

Most of the time when I see one they VoC

Probably to make space for their recon lasgun

[spark helm]

You can. You just might want to not overdo it.

Shock trooper helps

[ocean idol]

i don't get why shroud better than fury

[calm shard]

health increases to enemies means fury doesn't secure one shots like it used to

[spark helm]

Idc about which one is stronger exactly so I got nothing to say on that front. It's matter of utility provided in higher difficulties that I guess steers how people think and talk about it.

[calm shard]

most noticable in havoc

and then at that point just engage in gimmick build shenaniganry and thunderhammer things

[spark helm]

Yeah stuff like that seems to be a case for why shroudifeld has gone up.

[livid sphinx]

I wanna play with different weapons of vet but I dont wanna use shout 😭

[golden folio]

I’ve seen it and it’s ridiculous. Preview of incoming hive scum gameplay

[ocean idol]

when health was increased?

[spark helm]

I don't play zealot in havoc yet so I got nothing to say.

[ocean idol]

did not ev en notice

[calm shard]

crushers literally got double health

[spark helm]

Luckily you don't have to. :^)

[ocean idol]

I do

[ocean idol]

ok, now that is why DS feels much worse, i thought it was DS nerf

[spark helm]

But to go back, recon las vets can sometimes just be "doing it wrong" by basically playing like it's l4d2.

[ocean idol]

and now i get why krak grenades suddenly considered good

[spark helm]

And in tide games, you can't always really be anchoring your entire playstyle around shooting. It's possible for liberal use, yes. As the anchoring point, not what I'd recommend.

Got some friends learning that easy hard way

[hybrid plover]

I do want to say. A big part of zealot feeling underwhelming has to do with the hp changes too.

[golden folio]

Vet and psyker somehow make ranged only work until things get rough and they fold to a single poxwalker

[spark helm]

Tide games will punish you for reckless ranged use in higher difficulties inevitably. You gotta switch to melee as necessary. However, recon lasgun gets really lucrative mobility 80% in context to a lot of its builds and how the weapon can be used with greater execution.

[void dragon]

what gun they run? i assume its the Bolter? i enjoy Zealot as a backline bodyguard but never leaned on being the team designated gunner (specially since its gun buff needs him to be close to the target)

[narrow frost]

revolver

[fair shale]

Revo wildly good rn iirc

[narrow frost]

I have a video that just needs a thumbnail

I used it in H40

[void dragon]

that makes an awful lot of sense, that thing is a pocket sniper that is just ammo hungry

[narrow frost]

was fun

[calm shard]

zealot cannot build for gun

[void dragon]

sounds fun

[calm shard]

so yeah

good on you for not trying

[narrow frost]

yeah its fun to build for guns on zealot

[fair shale]

Im ngl I'm a lil worried for zealot within the context of scum coming out soon

[golden folio]

I miss when antax revolver was the meta, good times

[void dragon]

firs of all: rude
second acting like i dont use my gun: RUDE!

[narrow frost]

not for me, but I've got a few friends that are creative enough to try

[spark helm]

Genuinely wouldn't mind any extra pointers on that since I've been wanting to do that for a while but usually just default to its most powerful/solid ranged options and calling it a day.

What are you doing differently and with what?

[golden folio]

Don’t worry, all your concerns will soon be realized by more powerceep

[void dragon]

i have just delved in the zealot ways so i dont dare to use so unconventional ways with the class

[narrow frost]

you can do a funny weapon specialist type build with the backstab reload talent

combo with an invis build

[livid fractal]

am i missing something or is deathspitter just worse fire frenzy

[narrow frost]

you can bring double barrel

[spark helm]

Got experience with the shotty for that?

Yeah I was thinking db

[narrow frost]

I do not have any videos or clips of that

I've yet to use it

[calm shard]

at the very least I don't think scum will be as tanky as zealot xd

[spark helm]

Db tends to be a really nice stealth shotgun

[narrow frost]

but I've had friends try it

[livid fractal]

wow stealth DB vet sounds stupid fun lol

[narrow frost]

go for it

[spark helm]

It's extremely fun

[narrow frost]

its funny how people say that you cant build for range on zealot

when they have range talents

[livid fractal]

could I get the build for that? I wanna try it sometime

[fair shale]

Thats probably true

I dont think people play zealot to be tanky tho, I could be wrong

[spark helm]

Db infiltrate specifically?

[fair shale]

I figured people played zealot to me short ranged blenders

[calm shard]

they sure won't say that's why

[livid fractal]

sure

[calm shard]

but I guarantee you it's a part of the reason for their pickrate

[spark helm]

Oh yeah, how's progress since yesterday?

[fair shale]

Very true, they will sing the praises of UD HR tho

[void dragon]

not many and the class in an odd sutile way encourage more melee action, so its not something you pick naturaly, ergo: its not rare that people dont focus on that

[livid fractal]

just got into using the build, its rly fun already

just got my hands on Vraks V IAG and proper blessings, so im excited to see how that goes

[spark helm]

Curious about how that more supportive build worked out for you. You end up in damnation/aurics with it yet?

[fair shale]

Whats the best diff to farm diamantine on if I'm too impatient to wait for another havoc box?

[livid fractal]

no ive only done like 1 mission lol

feels very competent tho

[spark helm]

I just go with aurics if I want a farm run. Ideally maelstrom on maps like...uh

Hm.

Actually haven't thought about thay

Throneside is usually easy to sweel.

[livid fractal]

I do wanna try stealth shotty tho, that sounds rly funny

[fair shale]

I feel like I'm the only person grabbing resources in auric

[spark helm]

Like on a course.

[fair shale]

Like yeah the reward bonus is better

[spark helm]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9e1f05dc-6162-4d02-8a5d-ceb865e4f69a/stealth-bomber

This one is a pretty solid one fr. You can use it as a sort of base as well depending on the melee weapon you're already using. Pretty sure chaxe can hang with it too.

[ocean idol]

Well Sienna and bounty Hunter could do entire game without ever going melee

[fair shale]

Idk about that man

[narrow frost]

and waystalker, and SotT, and more

[fair shale]

I mained BH saltz

I still used melee

A lot

[ocean idol]

Griffon guns were bs

[spark helm]

They could be more liberal with it but they definitely throw around melee.

[ocean idol]

infinite ammo

[fair shale]

I liked BoP or Crossbow tbh

[void dragon]

dumb idea of the day: can Zealot become Veteran DBshotgun WS with the "Out of pocket" Perk? will give that idea a go for a while now

[calm shard]

bounty hunter is literally VT2's equivalent to WS vet

what the hell do you mean

[spark helm]

All of sienna benefitted heavily from melee opportunities but I know what you mean in terms of how relevant staves are for her

[ocean idol]

i said "could"

does not mean should

[spark helm]

Granted, she is the base for psyker as well so that's shared.

[ocean idol]

but they could

[spark helm]

Plenty of times to double down on staff use, that's not really what I was arguing in terms of like uh

Like how relevant melee is as a base of play.

Between all tide games.

With darktide opening up ranged even more because ranged enemies are far more numerous.

[livid sphinx]

Darktide gives you more ammo too

[spark helm]

Can't use gunners to kill hordes for you in darktide while you stall for a nice shot if you need to like in vt2.

[ocean idol]

i would argue too much

[spark helm]

And ammo efficiency was typically centered around rewarding headshot kills especiallu.

[livid sphinx]

Ammo in vt2 is so scarce

[fair shale]

Depends on comp tbh

[calm shard]

yeah because every ranged career that cares about ammo has some way to regenerate it

so ammo is supplemental to your built-in regen

not the literal only way to get ammo

[spark helm]

^

[livid sphinx]

I mean with how ranged weapons in vt2 worked, you can't just spam them all day

[calm shard]

Huntsman could If you never missed

[spark helm]

Most intense example is still ranger veteran bardin. Who just shit out ammo on the condition that you could aim well.

[fair shale]

Remember release Huntsman?

[calm shard]

hehe blunderbuss go brrrrrr

[fair shale]

What a fun time lol

[livid sphinx]

I still main hunstman in vt2 but with a rifle instead

[calm shard]

I ended up using the uuuh

revolving rifle

for huntsman

reasonably consistent 1 shot on anything up to stormvermin and was fun to tap things with

plus loads of ammo

[fair shale]

I did not play huntsman krub tbh, normally Merc or FK

[spark helm]

And this as well. Ranged heavy subclasses often had to be very precise at every step to just not run out of ammo. So there was a bit of greater pressure to perform because you don't want to be basically down to constantly replenishing a single bolt in a crossbow. Ideally, you'd always be at max because you only hit headshot kills.

[livid sphinx]

One tapping hordes of the big srmored guys was so satisfying

Even with MM keystone its so easy to fill it up to 10 stacks on vet

[spark helm]

Definitely really fun but probably one of the harder subclasses to perform well with. Inspired and rewarded "perfection" with less room for error compared to bh or waystalker.

Idk much about uh, outcast engineer fr so idk what's up there.

[fair shale]

It just wasn't in my wheelhouse tbh

Im not huge on stealth ngl

[livid sphinx]

BH was fun if you wanna destroy bosses

But other than that it was a mid experience

[calm shard]

and your teammates that have bad positioning

[fair shale]

BH was my single favorite class in the game tbh

[spark helm]

Longbow and spear huntsman was...REALLY cool.

Holy shit did I have to sweat when fights fell out of hand.

[ocean idol]

except griffon claws

[fair shale]

Using rapier pistol on BH to just execute storm rats felt great lol

[calm shard]

I think I settled on sword and shield for huntsman

[spark helm]

You really not allowed to fuck that one up lmao

[calm shard]

very strong defense and mobility

could make up for its bad damage into armored enemies by just shooting them

[ocean idol]

My most played class was slayer

[livid sphinx]

Just use the long spear

[spark helm]

I was like longbow and spear/shield and mace/mace and sword.

Idr how 1h mace felt with it.

[livid sphinx]

Long spear is like the DS of VT2

[calm shard]

yeah and it's fucking boring

away with you

[livid sphinx]

[ocean idol]

would that not be dual daggers

[spark helm]

Gotta disagree. Spear didn't allow you to fuck around the same way. Still great for busting skulls open and it's fun to just reach through a crowd and lance something.

[ocean idol]

also dual axes

[spark helm]

Rapier is the duelling sword of vt2 lol

[ocean idol]

actually literlaly

[spark helm]

Witch hunter rapier especially

[ocean idol]

same move set

[fair shale]

Rapier is more fun than DS

[hybrid plover]

The plasma vet who just turned level 30 recently:

[ocean idol]

i only ever see bolter users running out of ammo

[timid otter]

The ogryns with grenade gaunlet waste alot of ammo.

[golden folio]

Spamming the gun special is funny

[spark helm]

You gotta hit your shit way more to get the most out of it. Ds just was the same thing but extremely busted out the gate especially by the time it got spread to other classes

[hybrid plover]

Those plasma vets never run out because they're usually the ones taking all of it:^)

[fair shale]

Nah I agree

[fair shale]

It feels so good

[narrow widget]

spear/shield my beloved

[spark helm]

So being consistent eith duelling sword isn't tasked the same way as rapier was.

[fair shale]

I cant decide on a zealot voice chat

[hoary horizon]

what are you looking for in a zealot?

unadulterated devotion?

[spark helm]

Rapier when you really knew what you were doing completely blew shit out the water for witch hunter at least in my experience before other builds that I might not know of for saltz that were better.

[golden folio]

Also uncanny interacting with dots and nades makes it a pick for the worst type of minmaxxers

[fair shale]

Dunno, I think my only hard no is M Judge cause it's too forced. I kinda like how much of a bastard agitator is.

[hybrid plover]

Female fanatic my beloved

[fair shale]

It's everyone's tho

[spark helm]

And in vt2 the finesse heavy mobility melee tools required that near-constant tempo of only hitting heads and you had to actually aim shit a little bit more even on the lmb presses.

[fair shale]

I like F Fanatic too but I feel like every other zealot is one

[hybrid plover]

Because it's good.

[hoary horizon]

Agitator is innexperienced, hes all talk and hes putting up a mask of faith, but deep down hes afraid that he might not be of true faith, giving him more fire in his heart to fight for the god emperor, least thats my take on it

[oak canopy]

ive just got my power sword to 500, whats best on it atm

[fair shale]

Thats fair, yeah

[spark helm]

Darktide rewards you for it yes, but you don't get fucked as much for lacking in that execution

[ocean idol]

unpopular opinion

but i laways hated temp hp mechanic in vt

[hoary horizon]

truth be told, male Adgitator is good, but my fav is female adgitator

[fair shale]

I think i agree with that, tbh I think it's funny when he calls everyone Imbeciles and misquotes scripture immediately after

[hoary horizon]

exacly!

[fair shale]

I love how F Agi says grenade

[hoary horizon]

the laugh in the middle of a horde and on a killing spree

[spark helm]

So much movement in darktide just changed the scope of how weapons like the duelling sword expressed its strengths on top of a class system that didn't stick to limiting loadouts in favor of a talent tree system and weapon family access.

[fair shale]

Yk what

Maybe I will do F Agi

Lemme cross reference names rq

[spark helm]

I like judge because they're a complete fucking nerd.

[fair shale]

I like f judge way, way more than m judge

[hoary horizon]

tbf male agitator has that best laugh but female is like... i am high and mighty, but please dont correct me ill shatter all show of dignity i have

[spark helm]

Absolute pew baby

Lmao

[hybrid plover]

Judge is a low key menace.

[hoary horizon]

i like em because of their interaction with the bodyguard

[fair shale]

I think m agi has some great line delivery

[hoary horizon]

best friends

[spark helm]

Judge got into the Sunday school plays really hard lmao

[fair shale]

Agreed, judge says some harsh shit to people lol

[spark helm]

Judge is a weird one

[hoary horizon]

thou really arth a lummox slab

Is true! from long line of lummoxes!

really?

[spark helm]

They got that like

[hoary horizon]

i love em

[fair shale]

Judge feels like they're very well rounded

[hybrid plover]

Not even just that. He legit is one of the most dangerous personalities when you read into what he says.

[fair shale]

Idk how that got corrected to wrong

[hoary horizon]

Loner: and pray tell why they are the enemy? hmm?!

Because... they are wrong!

[fair shale]

Oh yeah, judge would be a literal terrorist

[hoary horizon]

something like that

[spark helm]

Benevolent bigotry you can expect from a religious zealot whose faith inspires bigotry and rewards staunch intolerance. But they'll also like say weird shit

[fair shale]

Yeah, I got autocorrected

[hoary horizon]

i love judge, they will see the for and against things then judge it based on what the Emperor has done before

[hybrid plover]

An iconoclast to a very far exteme.

[spark helm]

Like "yeah slab you're a genetic freak BUT if you pray enough you'll receive the emperor's pube extract like me"

But I'm more human than you so it doesn't matter :>

Bless your heart type shit

[hybrid plover]

Ironically, he's more akin to the psykers than he'd want to believe.

[ocean idol]

ONLY MEN SHALL RECIEVE MY SEED

[fair shale]

Judge feels like he almost gets along with the psykers

[hoary horizon]

personaly? i reckon the male fanatic is the biggest PoS but like all in all? hes got his redeeming quality, i like him but hes the worse of the lot.

[fair shale]

Ig I'll flip a coin on F Agi or F Judge

[spark helm]

It's that "love the sinner" kind of "tolerance"

[hoary horizon]

Agitator is inexperienced

[spark helm]

They still address psykers through slurs

Lmao

[fair shale]

Rq do any of you know what weapons Agi or Judge gets lines for

[spark helm]

Nah

[hoary horizon]

judge is... well hes like his name says he judges all from the Emperors point of view (or what he believs is right)

[spark helm]

Hardly see agitators

[hoary horizon]

any tbh

[fair shale]

Nah like

[hoary horizon]

OH!

[spark helm]

It's either judge or fanatic

[fair shale]

Fanatic gets lines for Flamer and Evis

[hoary horizon]

Judge defo uses a relic sword

[fair shale]

Judge iirc gets Thammer?

[hoary horizon]

Female judge is hamme ryeah

[fair shale]

I have no idea what Agi gets lines for

[hoary horizon]

personaly i see em with a chain axe

[ocean idol]

i hate all zealots

[spark helm]

Oh they talk about the weapons?

[hoary horizon]

i like their devotion

[ocean idol]

Only reason i even played one because it is cool melee class

i hate it

i hate fanaticism

[fair shale]

Yeah, every voice had particular lines for certain weapons

While used

Fanatic is special cause they have 2 weapons

I cannot remember most of the other voices weapons tho

[ocean idol]

is there a list somewhere

[spark helm]

Only noticed stuff like the vets talking shit to each other during plasma gun reloads.

[ocean idol]

i know fanatic talks about flamer

[fair shale]

I'm sure someone's compiled one but idk where it is

[ocean idol]

judge i think talks ab out thammer

[fair shale]

Yeah fanatic has flamer and evis

Judge is iirc thammer

[ocean idol]

never heard it

[fair shale]

Yeah, all the vets have plasma lines and iirc professional and cadian have lasgun banter

[spark helm]

Sometimes vets will jeer at each other for reacting to the plasma gun heat on reload.

Cutthroat talks a lot of shit when it happens usually.

[fair shale]

Yeah. Its rare cause it has to be on a heated reload

[tame lodge]

Yeah that's cutthroat