veteran-class

[tall torrent]

Knife has base crit chance of +15%

[tribal pebble]

OH

i thought all weapon have 10

[tall torrent]

Most melee weapons have +0%

[tribal pebble]

oh

[tall torrent]

Most ranged weapons have +5%

[tribal pebble]

why it is not say these things?

[tall torrent]

Great question

[tribal pebble]

game is weird

is good for revolver?

the mark with scope

which is reload one bullet

none speed loader

[tall torrent]

Just run Always Prepared under weapon specialist

[tribal pebble]

i have not yet enough talent points

[tall torrent]

Then that talent is an ok choice

[tribal pebble]

thank you

i buy plasma gun for first time

this is good?

[shy sphinx]

ngl i dont even know what stopping power does

[tall torrent]

No

[tribal pebble]

that is sad

[tall torrent]

Don’t ever dump stopping power

[tribal pebble]

what is it?

oh this gun is not like how space marine plasma gun is

[turbid ibex]

Stopping power affects stagger and damage

[trim badger]

Wait wasn't that only for heavy attacks?

[tall torrent]

No

[trim badger]

Waos

[azure narwhal]

You'll want to try to get 60 thermal resistance for now. The most optimal choice is 69 thermal resistance, 71 charge rate. Though that will, very very likely take a lot of rolls to get.

Not worth wasting away what money you have now

Later on, when you're rich

[tribal pebble]

ok thank you

and thank you for teach for the survivalist thing

i finish long mission and have not pick up ammo

and finish mission with full ammo

[azure narwhal]

Yeah

Survivalist is, unfortunately, much better than the other 2 auras

It's what nearly everybody runs for a reason

[slow spade]

Yeah the only reason to not run Survivalist is if a Vet already has Survivalist

Makes that penace a pain in the ass because bots also have ammo regen lol

[elder vessel]

surv is a big dog, whereas the other two are tiny widdle baby that doesn't hit breakpoints/provide no advantage

[turbid ibex]

It also doesnt help that havoc fucks with ammo economy

[tame lodge]

[dapper coyote]

Reccy lasgun with 0% stability

Is uh

Funny

You don't feel most of the recoil but the gun really wants to show that it has a big recoil

[turbid ibex]

how so?

can you record a clip of it

[dapper coyote]

Im on mobile discord

Hold up

[turbid ibex]

point the camera at the screen

[dapper coyote]

The sounds are just my fan in the background

The hip firing is fucking funny

[turbid ibex]

and how does it look like with 80% stability

[dapper coyote]

Idk i just bought it

I don't have one with 80% right now

[turbid ibex]

i see

[tribal pebble]

is dreg rager with armour is still maniac?

i meaning scab i think

[red portal]

Get obs or use shadow play my man

Unless you're on console I guess

[dapper coyote]

Discord mobile

[steep flower]

No; carapace chest, rest is flak

[red portal]

Also that screen tearing

[dapper coyote]

This isn't my laptop just yet, hopefully next year

[tribal pebble]

thank you

[hoary valley]

serious question and please help me figure this out, why is it that on my zealot running ANY talent with blazing piety refuses to one shot crushers and typically does a healthy 2-3 hits for dueling sword. But when I use the SAME dueling sword on my "squad command" build veteran, im consistently 1 or 2 shotting crushers. Make it make sense

[livid citrus]

Shadow nerf to zels man

[sharp epoch]

desperado probably on vet helps boost your finesse a lot, zealot you need to dodge to get your finesse bonus

[trim badger]

Focus Target
Skirmisher
Bring it Down
15% Melee dmg node
Agile Engagement
Desperado
Precision Strikes
Exploit Weakness
Marksman

[orchid hemlock]

One shotting I doubt it even if you crit and max stacks of uncanny

But Vet generally has more melee damage than Zealot, assuming you get the holy Trinity of talents in the bottom right side

Zealot usually gets those one shot damage spikes from shroud or fury

[trim badger]

Veteran deals more finesse damage than Zealot

That's the TLDR

Finesse melee vet is OP rn xdd

[hollow ibex]

i don't think finesse is tied to class

and zealot gets some pretty insane finesse related talents

[hollow ibex]

well outside of c rit chance iirc

[trim badger]

No but vet has a lot more reliable and good finesse talents

[trim badger]

Regarding weakspot, just Duellist

And crit chance, scourge and blazing piety

Not exactly "big" ones

[orchid hemlock]

Desperado is the only finesse talent outside of the weakspot one on the left side

[trim badger]

Vet just still does better with finnese melees than Zealot tho

[inner iris]

Veteran is a better melee class than zealot? 😱

[trim badger]

Because of all of these

[trim badger]

Yes!!!1!!!!

[hoary valley]

whats the holy trinity?

[hollow ibex]

i mean vet has a lot of damage talents, wouldn't say it has a lot of melee finesse talents

there's... desperado, and arguably reciprocity, though that's just a general talent

[orchid hemlock]

Reciprocity, Desperado, Skirmisher

95% of vet builds should have those 3 talents on this patch

[trim badger]

These dmg talents alongside the Finesse ones just makes finesse melee on vet mega OP

[orchid hemlock]

Imo

[hoary valley]

feels bad man, i like playing church of ass :/ now I have to play pope of ass or eater of ass

[trim badger]

what does this even mean

[hoary valley]

character names

[orchid hemlock]

Just worship ass smh my head

We all pray to a "God"

I assume you are talking about your Zealot

But Zealot's strength is different from Vet

Yes Vet does better base melee damage, but their mobility is still cheeks

And they have some of the worst toughness Regen nodes in the game that heavily require the ability to do it for them

[trim badger]

Yeah it's just kinda silly that the melee class does less melee dmg than the other class tho

Even if Zealot can be a lot more tanky and clutch better

[orchid hemlock]

Zealot isn't really the "melee" class

I don't think that is how Darktide is represented in "roles"

Because Zealot has one of the best range weapons in the game, the flamer

I see it as what they are good at killing

[stuck gorge]

zealot is purgstaff with ammo

[orchid hemlock]

I see Zealot as the elite/boss killer

Very mobile and good at taking out high HP targets like ragers, maulers, and crushers safely

Vet is the best specialist killer

Very good at taking out trappers, mutants, flamers, bombers

[surreal rune]

how would this contrast to, say, a melee psyker

[orchid hemlock]

Psyker is just broken 😔

[surreal rune]

i mean, psyker doesnt have until death and has less base hp

[trim badger]

I don't think anyone would use this argument in good faith tho

[orchid hemlock]

By far the strongest class in the entire game at everything

Only weakness maybe is boss damage, but that is relative to the build

[trim badger]

Veteran kills bosses better nowadays

UNLESS zealot is running stealth

Veteran also kills elites better nowadays

[orchid hemlock]

Until death is useful as a crux for bad situations, which is what Zealot gets into a lot

But it doesn't matter to Psyker whenever everything in front of you dies from 3 button presses

[trim badger]

https://youtu.be/eEq-Ij0-YBA?si=IbaCw8C1IKDD4cRF

Zealot dreams of doing that dmg without stealth (and worst part is I didn't even have Agile Engagement or Marksman proc'd on that vid 😭 )

[steep flower]

I suggest changing the name of the vid

Truly

[trim badger]

No matter I just made it to prove a point

[gilded wraith]

Another distinction would be the uptime of their cdr talents. Veteran will struggle to hit 15% uptime on Tactical Awareness for a match. Zealot will be over 50% uptime on their melee crit cdr talent.

I don't have numbers for the backstab cdr talent, but would love some.

[trim badger]

Doesn't matter much when shout has 30s base cooldown

Meanwhile the zealot equivalent has 60s

[gilded wraith]

It does actually over the course of a mission.

And relative to other classes.

[tribal pebble]

there person have kick me from the team

why were do this

[gilded wraith]

Hard to tell without context.

[mystic lodge]

Should I use Punishing Salvo or Sustained Fire on Infantry Autogun?

[gilded wraith]

Could be trolling, Could be your actions.

[tribal pebble]

i was have more damage than rest of the team if add all damage of them up

2 of them also not help me from net gun thing after all enemy die

it is mission vi and is at last part

is many amount sad

[gilded wraith]

You asked for a distinction so I provided one in class CDR. Let's compare Infiltrate to Shroudfield for uptime. Don't let bias cloud logic. Whenever someone asks for the drawback to veteran, having the worst CDR of any class in the game is a legitimate response.

[frigid shuttle]

15% tactical awareness uptime is straight up skill issue

or maybe playing unmodded and can't spot specials in the dark

[gilded wraith]

That's fine, post your uptime screenshot for a match. I'm happy to learn.

Most of mine were auric high shock if you'd like to compare apples to apples.

[proud jolt]

vet rat build is my favorite

[azure narwhal]

Eh i feel like it's more or less worrying yourself about nothing. Regardless, both classes have good ability regen, now, piety is an outlier for that but there will always be such cases. Even with the recent nerfs VoC is still spammable to hell and back

At least personally i never felt left without VoC when i wanted VoC

Also there's the fact that with the base cooldown of VoC any more cdr would certainly be pushing it for vet

[tribal pebble]

What is voc is meaning

[azure narwhal]

Voice Of Command ability

[tribal pebble]

Is to recharge toughness thing

[azure narwhal]

Yes, to you and your teammates, it also provides large stagger around you

People mainly take it for its subnode modifier, which gives you gold toughness +50

[narrow widget]

i agree we should nerf vet again

[azure narwhal]

Yes, and buff arbitrator

Tired of these OP classes smh

Someone dunk on infiltrate

[trim badger]

I think ranged for vet should be buffed but melee to be nerfed

[narrow widget]

i think you're wrong

make vet zealot 2

[hoary valley]

with how arb dropped im more worried about the new class

[gilded wraith]

Not worrying so much as annoyed by the knee jerk response of "git good" whenever I mention Tactical Awareness uptime. I find asking a person to post their uptime after they comment on my "skill issues" normally causes them to get really quiet when they realize they don't hit 15% consistently.

[azure narwhal]

The oldest argument; what is vet? I've given in to the melee hybrid dream.

WS too good man

[narrow widget]

guys can we remove ft

smh

[azure narwhal]

It's unfortunate, but as long as you are satisfied with your gameplay it's good

[narrow widget]

10 billion more infiltrate subnodes !!!!!

[azure narwhal]

I couldn't tell you what my uptime is, but i can get that mod when i'm home to see

[trim badger]

He already is!1!!!!

[gilded wraith]

My primary issue is the impact of Infiltrate. It got decimated by the change.

[azure narwhal]

I am too ignorant on infiltrate to know sadly. Might play more with it sometime though, so i can understand

[narrow widget]

good all these filthy infiltrate mains need to go smh smh

ts pmo

[elder vessel]

[azure narwhal]

I can only see this from stance and voc context

[azure narwhal]

Ah, the final boss

[gilded wraith]

Exestance definitely got hit the least.

[azure narwhal]

Exestance is so stupid

[spark helm]

Definitely not decimated, but made harder for indirect reasons.

[elder vessel]

Just bake in the bonus dmg and make it last a bit longer

[azure narwhal]

Passive toughness gen has never been easier to upkeep

[elder vessel]

Thats all you need to do

[spark helm]

Exestance was one of the biggest winners of the patch.

Like hands down. Huge change

[narrow widget]

yeah lets get another 5 subnodes and reduce the time to 2 seconds

waiter waiter!!! more infiltrate nerfs!

[elder vessel]

I've also heard ideas about a satchel charge you can use when infiltrating

sneaky mode to apply the big boom

[gilded wraith]

The thirty % damage boost helps... but it will be available 30% less often with the change to TA. Decimated was exaggerated, but it didn't keep up iwth the power creep.

[narrow widget]

was it ever a thing tbf

[azure narwhal]

Holy shit, it's Cyrus from Dawn Of War.

[narrow widget]

top 10 most relevant vet nodes

[spark helm]

Keystoneless infiltration veteran has been a thing before.

[narrow widget]

ok but compared to literally every other vet build

[spark helm]

With solid success too. This was before havoc eventually happened but that's pretty much where infiltrate experiences its hard stops.

[gilded wraith]

Stealth grenadier was very underhanded.

[spark helm]

If we're talking about people and their sense of viability there was a brief time where people literally thought ws was terrible because they had to press a button to swap weapons.

[gilded wraith]

WS terrible... my bayonette won't trigger it.

[spark helm]

And even within that comparison, keystoneless infiltrate was completely viable with ease. Not necessarily popular but not a slouch of a playstyle.

Only thing safer than that was voc anything and people are still convincing themselves that they need to throat voc for the rest of their lives

[sharp epoch]

WS was probably the least annoying keystone before they reworked the others

[spark helm]

I agree. Tell that to what the buzz was at the time. Some mfkers just up and acted like focus target did nothing just because it was so simple. Self-reports were wilder back then.

[gilded wraith]

I just remember all the crabwalking. Kind of glad that went away.

[tribal pebble]

Is the focus keystone thing is good?

[sharp epoch]

I mean I still don't think FT is that impactful, most targets dont stay up that long except bosses

[tribal pebble]

With weak point damage

[narrow widget]

situationally

[gilded wraith]

Focus target, or marksmans focus?

[spark helm]

It's just not that dynamic of a thing.

But the basics of what it does has never been suboptimal.

[gilded wraith]

Both are fine, depending on weapon.

[tribal pebble]

Which is most good?

[tribal pebble]

I like revolver

[calm shard]

it's extremely good for exe

kinda uh

[spark helm]

^

[narrow widget]

true

[calm shard]

Yeah situational for the others

[tribal pebble]

I like the revolver with no scope

[gilded wraith]

Probably Focus Target. Not sure you'd have the ammo economy to keep marksman up.

[calm shard]

MMF is a comically high damage boost for specific ranged weapons

[tribal pebble]

It is feel like cow boy

[narrow widget]

ws is just generally good

[proud jolt]

never cared much for the revolver

[narrow widget]

ft is like

ok

[proud jolt]

I more enjoy the bolt pistol

[sharp epoch]

mmf is useless for like half the weapons though any non precision weapon or ones with no finesse like recon lasgun

[calm shard]

That's not half of all weapons

It's just the braced autoguns and recon lasgun

[proud jolt]

the knife is my most used

[spark helm]

It's free damage and sustain. Right now as the game works, it's incredible when paired with exestance and charismatic as a start.

[calm shard]

also the revolver because it just one shots things anyways

[trim badger]

Goated for Havoc

[proud jolt]

it just shreeds

[spark helm]

Information, damage boost, additional toughness gen on an already toughness generous class, etc.

People gotta stop looking at tools in isolation.

[tribal pebble]

I like as well as but I love cow boy

[spark helm]

If you're already a solid shooter/just good at popping vips or have any variety of spatial and situational awareness, ft in combination with other shit is far better than it used to be.

You just get to exist and provide benefits. All you gotta do is basic veteran shit and you're golden.

Turn your gun into a utility vending machine. It's free.

Hell. Exestance + Ft makes bosses nothing. They just die. You just look at them and hold down lmb

What are they gonna do? Die slower?

Can't afford to fire and are near highlighted vips? Lucky you, your melee will keep exestance going so you'll just keep getting passive toughness regeneration, bonus damage, whatever. You're not getting the guaranteed safety of voc, sure, but exestance antics have always been predicated on personal killstreaks. The better the pilot, the better exestance just becomes

[gilded wraith]

The gutted nature of TA offends me, so I go WS or MF. I'm petty and hold a grudge like a newborn baby.

[sharp epoch]

whats ta

[gilded wraith]

Tactical Awareness.

[narrow widget]

teaching assistant

[trim badger]

Isn't it still a must pick tho

[gilded wraith]

Those darn teaching assistants!

Nah, not if you run Exestance.

[sharp epoch]

how does ta affect what keystone you pick

[gilded wraith]

Pathing

[tribal pebble]

Tactical awareness is good? I never use it yet

I soon will have enough talent point

[sharp epoch]

I feel like the core build runs through TA anyways

[narrow widget]

best node in the tree

[azure narwhal]

It's a must take

[tribal pebble]

That is amazing

[gilded wraith]

You can't get to focus target without running through it.

[spark helm]

At least you're genuinely honest about where you're coming from it. Though I wouldn't say that ta take a hit necessarily means that it's not still useful. If anything it's still a core mainstay of the majority of vet builds. The only real harm done was to like infiltrate.

[narrow widget]

you see all infiltrate needs is another subnode that bakes in cdr

[trim badger]

I feel Zealot should've been the only one with stealth

[narrow widget]

[sharp epoch]

I mean it did hurt shout a lot too, it's just shout was considered OP

[tribal pebble]

I never use this

[trim badger]

If anything Infiltrate should be reworked into something else entirely

[tribal pebble]

Is good?

[narrow widget]

use what? focus target?

[tribal pebble]

Yes

[spark helm]

Nah. They went with blending kruber bardin and saltz into veteran so it having a sneak makes sense in itself.

[trim badger]

And I know just what it could be...

VT2 Bounty Hunter ult

[gilded wraith]

I'm not sure what the beta goal was for Infiltrate. Feels like it took collateral damage that was aimed at Shout.

[trim badger]

To be fair this could be said about every single class

[sharp epoch]

I think they just wanted to nerf all cdr, they hit ogryn and psyker too

but vet got hit the hardest

[spark helm]

Shout is just a fundamentally powerful tool for tide games. Been this way ever since vt2.

[tropic halo]

Shouts and taunts have always been strong in the tide games

[gilded wraith]

They did, but the trigger conditions for the ogryn and psyker CDR talents are much more generous than TA.

[narrow widget]

yeah we should keep hitting him

[gilded wraith]

Agreed, but Infiltrate needed a more thorough rework post CDR change.

[trim badger]

I do feel vet shout is ridiculous tho

30s base cooldown, 10s of gold toughness

[tropic halo]

Makes me eeo

[trim badger]

Meanwhile in VT2 it's at least 90s cooldown, and none of them make your team unkillable

[tropic halo]

Nothing as same as Ogryn taunt with Go Again

infinite uses and fast CDR

[narrow widget]

yeah therefore we should remove ogryn from the game

[sharp epoch]

Yeah with go again you can keep taunt with 100% uptime

Also psyker bubbles you can have pretty much 100% uptime too

[gilded wraith]

You want Tanner to pop in? That's how you get Tanner to pop in! 😉

[spark helm]

I guess but focus more on what I'm speaking on here i suppose. Veteran already pulls from ranger veteran, it already pulls from mercenary and uh witch hunter's passive.

So much of darktide is fragmented and juiced up stuff from vt2 subclasses. Which is fine to me, but in the case of vet the issues with infiltrate feel more like collateral from the talent tree system rather than subclasses.

[trim badger]

Just rework infiltrate into bounty hunter ult

Easy

[sharp epoch]

whats bounty hunter ylt

[narrow widget]

rework infiltrate into nothing and make vet have only 2 ult choices

[narrow widget]

you pull out a gun and shoot a big bullet that does a lot of damage

[gilded wraith]

My two changes: Rework Infiltrate, Make TA trigger on ally in coherency kills as well.

[spark helm]

They really could just go the easier route and just merge modifiers into it the same way they merged the charismatic, grenadier, etc. Making baseline changes like guaranteed suppression immunity also come to mind.

[elder vessel]

thats not a rework you just deleted the ability and replaced with something else

[narrow widget]

brooo lets make shout even more busted brooooo

[sharp epoch]

seems different from most abilities in dt which just buff you, also sounds mid lol

[trim badger]

Boring

[compact oracle]

its infiltrate because enemies cant see you because they're dead

[gilded wraith]

Or... hear me out... adjust shout cooldown... instead of TA? Crazy talk I know.

[gilded wraith]

Or... hear me out... adjust shout cooldown... instead of TA? Crazy talk I know.

[compact oracle]

nah, keep tactical adjustment

[trim badger]

Yeah

Bh ult would be goated tho

[elder vessel]

im gonna detonate and take all of you with me istg

[narrow widget]

smh all these infiltrate mains smh smh

[frigid shuttle]

infiltrate 💀

[spark helm]

https://tenor.com/view/kizaru-borsalino-admiral-marines-shades-gif-10682292755083267442

[sonic kayak]

Change the Ogryn to a Catachan Jungle Fighter and keep the tree literally the same

[trim badger]

Shout still OP nowadays tho, reverting Tactical awareness would be kinda cringe Even if increasing shout base cooldown

[gilded wraith]

The TA adjustment and trigger condition renders skills that trigger off ability use even more fringe.

[compact oracle]

6 fucking flat second ability reduction

[sharp epoch]

nah shouts mid, book better

exe better too

[compact oracle]

that's fucked up no matter how you slice it

[trim badger]

Cuh

[narrow widget]

good agenda posting thank you darktide fbi

[gilded wraith]

I never advocated reverting TA effect... I advocated giving it a new trigger condition.

[trim badger]

Zealot weakest havoc class

[trim badger]

What could that be

[compact oracle]

book needs buff, it should passively deal 15% of enemy hp per second its out

i think that would be fair

[gilded wraith]

Either specialist and elite, or ally in coherency. Same as ogryn and psyker.

[trim badger]

Book is fine

Shout is busged xddd

[sharp epoch]

low damage doesnt mean its weak, book zealot is very impactful for the game plus has tools like beacon and flamer which are busted on havoc

[narrow widget]

buff zealot

[trim badger]

Oh so 80% uptime in havoc then

[elder vessel]

just make shout 60-70-80s cooldown

[trim badger]

Wa

[elder vessel]

easy peasy

[hoary valley]

book zealot is not as strong as shout im sorry lol

[sharp epoch]

The 30% damage teamwide buff makes up for the lack of damage your doing while booking imo

[compact oracle]

shout should be usable a limited amount of times per match because your vet runs out of voice

[trim badger]

This

[compact oracle]

no, no, it's a relic, it should kill daemonhosts immediately

[gilded wraith]

The uptime of TA is horrendous compared to every other classes trigger condition. One class shouldn't have a 15% uptime on CDR while another has 75% uptime on CDR.

[narrow widget]

shout should only be usable 5 times per character

[hoary valley]

from experience my teams are more effective without the book, most its used for is CC which vet handles better as its a hard knockdown vs a nudge

[narrow widget]

once your vet loses his voice its time to make a new one

[gilded wraith]

Don't really care which way they adjust it.

[sharp epoch]

They do the same thing though, one just does it better

[trim badger]

Why not?

[elder vessel]

we have all the best takes and if we were in charge of darktide balance this game would be lit

[trim badger]

Should all classes have high CDR?

[narrow widget]

vote nitoric acid as darktide dictator 2026

[gilded wraith]

Change ogryn and psyker to be self only and one category, I'd be fine with that. Though Out for Blood is a heck of an outlier.

[elder vessel]

no vote me

I will make power spear real

and it will be an infiltrate weapon

[gilded wraith]

Poor design and makes balancing talents a nightmare.

[trim badger]

Does it???

They could kinda do what they did with zealot

Add combat modifier nodes

[gilded wraith]

Yes, captain 2 word troll 😉

[narrow widget]

why do we even need cdr anyway lets just make each ability have 0 cooldown

[trim badger]

To help that ability

[narrow widget]

this will surely have no unintended effects

[trim badger]

Holy shit you're entitled LOL

[gilded wraith]

Or... remove cdr completely. Also fine with that.

[sharp epoch]

A stun for 6 seconds is way more impactful than just one knockdown

[compact oracle]

holding relic the entire fucking match

shields within shields within shields within shields

[narrow widget]

0 damage zealot

[compact oracle]

exactly

[narrow widget]

"im a pacifist" ahh

[gilded wraith]

Indeed... my attempts to point out differences in Zealot and Veteran in logical posts that get back snide 2 word answers are the height of entitlement 🫡

[compact oracle]

beasts of nurgle would fuck it all up i guess

[frigid shuttle]

The Emperor Provides.

[sharp epoch]

I agree that tac awareness is in a weird position to every other class. It's still only specialist and only yourself while giving the same benefits as other classes cdr

[gilded wraith]

Please consider using the Uptime mod to back up your opinion with numbers is the peak of trash talking.

[compact oracle]

good

[gilded wraith]

A saint!

[spark helm]

Feels like they wanted veteran to feel like its output is tempered by execution. That's not to say that execution doesn't matter for other classes, but veteran definitely can be the "be better or die" kind of class. Idk

[gilded wraith]

Things can definitely go south in a hurry.

[narrow widget]

nah lets make them braindead again i should be comatose and able to h40 as vet

[spark helm]

So that's my thought for the way tactical awareness has functioned for the class even when veteran was just very breezy to hold momentum for.

[gilded wraith]

Amazingly, you can pick something between the extremes.

[sharp epoch]

imo it just feels like they were lazy and didnt want to change the conditional for vets cdr, and just changed the effect

[spark helm]

Could be a placeholder change too before more patches. Happens all the time.

[narrow widget]

vro are we fr i have not said a single serious thing in like an hour

[spark helm]

Like how the special events were just tech demos for havoc modifiers in the future.

[compact oracle]

room, read

[gilded wraith]

Gotcha, hard to tell if someone is taking a piss.

[compact oracle]

chances are about 80/20

[sharp epoch]

Vet's should be the same as psyker and ogryn or just have unique ways to get it like zealots CDR nodes

[spark helm]

~60/40 in vet chat's case. Serious/unserious

[narrow widget]

vet should get cdr for breathing (its resting his lungs so he can shout again)

[compact oracle]

weakspot cdr...?

[gilded wraith]

I've got a post up asking for skilled players cdr uptime... it went about about as well as you'd expect on reddit.

[spark helm]

For as long as I've ever been in the darktide discord between leaving and coming back, vet is one of the more serious ones in terms of how often people talk about the class.

[compact oracle]

ive gotta be honest ive never really wanted for more cdr on vet

[narrow widget]

"3%" 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[sharp epoch]

no shout infinite ability 👍

[spark helm]

Well reddit is a particularly incredible place. Much worse on the circlejerk than the discord

[compact oracle]

fine, but only if sprinting adds more time to your cooldown

[narrow widget]

your ability to mash the f button is directly tied to how well you perform

[gilded wraith]

15% is a skill issue... followed by silence when asking for their uptime 😉

[spark helm]

At least here people actually test things out and use that for their arguments and overall just showing what can be done in the game lol

Reddit is like, a really good place to just crave sounding like the same majority rule of total nonsense.

[narrow widget]

wait we're cooking lowkey

[compact oracle]

god no, i dont want a marksman's focus situation please

[sharp epoch]

You'd probably need something like power DI to check the uptime right?

[gilded wraith]

I just run Uptime mod... it's amazing.

[sharp epoch]

oo I need to get that

[gilded wraith]

We all have a lot of notions about our build and talent value. Uptime helps you remove the bias.

[narrow widget]

think about it
the world if shout entirely crippled

[tall torrent]

It’s not as accurate as it sounds

[frigid shuttle]

I'm sorry that I don't feel the need to gain validation from some randoms on discord, at least not enough to stop playing eu5 and start up darktide, look through hundreds of uptime logs for the vet ones.

[compact oracle]

oh, true

shout should prevent you from sprinting like castigator's stance

you're out of breath after being so loud, why would you be able to move as well

[spark helm]

There's also just hella passives that aren't really hard to keep up. You just do the thing and get the benefit.

[tall torrent]

Some stuff show in uptime “accurately” but not intuitively

[narrow widget]

shout too much and your head explodes

[tall torrent]

Like

[narrow widget]

like

[gilded wraith]

That one wasn't actually aimed at you. I got "skill issue" "git good" and "learn to play" on the reddit post as well. I honestly do want a larger sample size if you're willing.

[narrow widget]

like psyker

[spark helm]

Shout now costs stamina.

:^)

[tall torrent]

Agile engagement uptime is crazy but ur not actually using it that much

[compact oracle]

after shouting vet needs to lie down for a minute to cool off

this is fair

[tall torrent]

Blessings also show up weirdly

[frigid shuttle]

I don't think my numbers are necessarily fair, I play with psykernautics and nameplates.

[gilded wraith]

True, melee or ranged only skills can skew the results significantly. Best tool I've found though.

[tall torrent]

It’s not like a fully accurate way of interpreting whether smth has high uptime or not

But it is a good reference point

[gilded wraith]

Honestly, any sample size beyond just my own has value.

[frigid shuttle]

you need to extrapolate useful uptime as well

if you're not shouting on cooldown, then you can be wasting cdr

[gilded wraith]

Yeah, that part gets tricky though. I'm targeting the CDR skill uptime only.

[sharp epoch]

what abillity?

[spark helm]

I think people ought to just start at studying how statistics work before any of that but that's just me.

[sharp epoch]

I mostly use exe stance

[gilded wraith]

So TA vs Out for Blood, vs pykenitic aura... etc.

[gilded wraith]

I survived statistics and a few calcs... but didn't love them. That takes a different kind of brain. Love electrical circuits though.

[narrow widget]

actually coherent statistics??? in my darktide???? no way

[gilded wraith]

That's what we have Path, Angry Crabs, and Kuli for.

[sharp epoch]

angry crab died

[gilded wraith]

Holy shit... really?

[sharp epoch]

no like he left the server

[gilded wraith]

Oh... thank goodness.

[spark helm]

Statistics is pretty interesting even if math isn't my focus (yet...?). I gave myself a stray because I basically forgot my 101 stat coursework. 😭

[rocky stratus]

can someone let me know what the current best build is for a helbore

in the skill tree

all the builds i find online are pre update

[spark helm]

I honestly just want a stronger base in statistics so I can just engage with them more consciously.

So I gotta refresh myself.

[gilded wraith]

Yeah, I'm just going for straight uptime percentage for the CDR talents in each class. Probably a fault in that approach, but much less mathing.

Events keep messing up the percentages.

[spark helm]

I wouldn't even begin to understand how the fuck people design them trackers. I know nothing

[tall torrent]

This game not complicated enough to need statistics course knowledge

[spark helm]

Like I see the numbers. They're big and plentiful.

How they figure that math? Dunno.

[spark helm]

I was just talking about it broadly for like critical reading and clinical stuff like that which I really would need for studying, let alone anything that might throw me into the researcher mines

[narrow widget]

you could just look at how many times you're shouting per some section of time but you can't really use that to compare to other abilities

[spark helm]

And for combating institutional mis/disinformation.

[gilded wraith]

All jokes aside though, if your good at your class and willing to play a few non-event Auric High Shocks, please send me a clip of your Uptime results (bonus points if you highlight the icon that is your CDR talent for me).

[dapper coyote]

Whats the blessing for the reccy lasgun?

The flame one and uhh

[narrow widget]

How are you going to standardize for people who hold on to their abilities and as such aren't getting the cdr benefit

[hollow ibex]

dumdum

[gilded wraith]

Dumdum, infernus, deathspitter I think.

[dapper coyote]

Gotcha

[gilded wraith]

I think/hope the CDR talent uptime is independent of the ability use in the mod. Otherwise I'm hopeful that with enough instances it will balance out for each playstyle.

[tall torrent]

Tac awareness prob can use an adjustment that counts coherency allies’ kills

With that said

If that does become a thing

I think the gold toughness subnode for VoC needs to have a CD penalty

[sharp epoch]

just give me elite kills 😔

[tall torrent]

From the earliest draft I sent to playtester my design was to make VoC gold toughness be at minimum 20s CD

[gilded wraith]

Yes.. I like adjusting individual ability cooldowns for balancing.

[gilded wraith]

Elites, or allies... or we could go the psyker route and get both.

Psyker OP.

[azure narwhal]

Regarding this earlier by the way. Notice how easier it is taking advantage of vet's tools, whatever was spent during this fight (4 bullets and an ability use) will be replenished soon by the end of it either way. Also, on the MkVI push attack is incredibly strong and your main source of damage, the horizontal heavies are good for trash hordes like the melee bruisers.

If i was in a team though this would play out more confidently on my side. I'd likely just bullrush with VoC and push attack everything to death

if there's one habit you gotta drill into your head it is not being afraid to use resources

it's not like a MOBA game where your ult is of great importance

there's almost always a way to replenish whatever you lost quickly

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1437876564707770508/D384E23B734C3E5F7B55B2696EA2158097736615.mov?ex=69177967&is=691627e7&hm=dc67f0651877b45f04113724e6871b5d56dfad2d8ddce7959fdb3044890b6a4e&

[azure narwhal]

they mean with their weapon

they want to rely on combat blade for the most part

[tall torrent]

Then ur best bet is to run

[azure narwhal]

???

[tall torrent]

Run. Play around with their slots

Then focus 1 at a time

[azure narwhal]

oh kiting

[tall torrent]

Knife doesn’t have good stagger

[azure narwhal]

well yeah

you can easily outpace shit with knife

in this case though 5 ragers is whatevs

can quickly weed them out

[calm shard]

except that they're dreg ragers and in an actual match there's a good chance their lunge attack ignores your dodge because lag

[tall torrent]

Most melee weapons unfortunately aren’t good at fighting multiple ragers at the same time

[calm shard]

if they were scab ragers yeah nbd just kill them

too slow to be a threat

[tall torrent]

By good at I mean doing it consistently with 0 health chip & no external stagger

[azure narwhal]

i mean, at what ping would this realistically affect you to that point

might happen without noticing but at least personally i rarely run into that kinda problem

[calm shard]

anything above 30 in my experience

[azure narwhal]

i either play the game or fatshark disconnects me from servers

no in between 💀

got 9 dcs in a row last havoc

[orchid hemlock]

New DS 😈

[tall torrent]

Also kinda struggles

DS’s parry isn’t that high cleave to stagger multiple

[trim badger]

I miss old DS poke

[tall torrent]

DS can use like 5 more nerfs tbh

Single target still too high

And dodge template override in general needs to be toned down

[frigid shuttle]

no, buff other weapons to be as strong

[tall torrent]

No

[frigid shuttle]

It won't be inferno staff anyway.

[tall torrent]

Buff the undertuned
Nerf the top performers

Do both at the same time

[frigid shuttle]

what is a balanced weapon in your mind?

that doesn't deserve any nerfs

[tall torrent]

Melee?

[frigid shuttle]

sure

[tall torrent]

None

Ranged, there’re a few

DB shotgun, laspistol2, vig auto 3, helbore (all)

[frigid shuttle]

DB? You mean the infinite cleave budget inferno staff db?

[tall torrent]

Yea

As bonkers as manstopper is

I still think it’s ok

[elder fiber]

considering it has actual drawbacks vs long range that can't be covered like purga

[tall torrent]

Because u essentially trade away the ability to dunk on most specials past 10m reliably with it

On the class that generally does mid-long range better than others

Manstopper can use some changes tho for sure, but that’s less of a DB thing and more on the blessing itself

And as for melee I don’t think there’s a single “balanced” melee where I think it doesn’t need any changes whether that be nerfs or buffs

[hollow ibex]

shock maul is perfectly balanced

[tall torrent]

Shock maul can use some buffs

[elder fiber]

Its aight, I wouldn't mind slightly better crusher dmg or smth but its not a weapon I'd want overbuffed

[void dragon]

Would not mind just minor buffs, the capacity to bully captain shields is quite funny, not to mention that applying skullcrusher with them is a nice help for team sometimes

[spark helm]

I try playing shock maul like 1h mace and get smacked for it. Partially a skill issue tbh. I like the zaps.

[trim badger]

I think DT would be in the healthiest state if everything was balanced around Combat Axe

(every melee I mean)

[tall torrent]

This is a wild take

[void dragon]

Caxe has needs from the perk tree, utility in it's many stagger attacks, damage to be respected across all enemies

[trim badger]

I mean what else would you use as a template tho

[void dragon]

Isn't P.Falchion just Rashad but weaker, ergo would you consider it balanced?

[trim badger]

Of a power level where people both can have fun and enemies don't instadie

[steep flower]

Even achlyss combat axe?

[elder fiber]

probably a weapon that doesn't have an extremely unhealthy relationship with a make or break blessing (brutal momentum) where if it loses certain BPs it becomes drastically worse

[tall torrent]

There is no “balanced” melee imo

But I think the 2 closest are tac axe and relic blade

But I also think both of them need changes still

[void dragon]

Funny, I usually feel Relic blade is a little weak (even weaker than taxe in some cases)

[tall torrent]

Achlys combat axe is way way way way below what I’d call “balanced”

[tall torrent]

My takes are highly controversial but

I think relic can use more first target damage when activated, and a shorter activated duration

Also have more blessings added to it

[trim badger]

Buffing... Relic blade?

[tall torrent]

Perfect strike & sunder both need changes but I think both would fit

[tall torrent]

Not a straight buff more like adjustment

[void dragon]

It's ttk isn't that impressive, and feels that sometimes has to swing too many times to kill

Then again, I'm just a noob with the entire class

[tall torrent]

I also think every cleave blessing needs to be nerfed

[sharp epoch]

relic blade buff would be fine, I feel like most of the problematic weapons are the very mobile weapons which are decent

like ds and knife

[void dragon]

The one weapon that breaks that mold is the Psword, it's damage is beyond absurd but is slow as molasses for a 1handed

[steep flower]

Yes pls

[tall torrent]

Tac axe is a similar ish story

I think it needs more first target damage
But the dodge template override needs to be weaker

Instead of 2.75m override, make it like 2.5m

[steep flower]

Psword is like a chonky cat; still a cat but fat and thus slow & clumsy

[tall torrent]

So only psyker & arb get actual significant dodge distance boost (still less than before) with it

[void dragon]

Nah, I feel it's damage is fine to struggle uninvested but still good due pattern and stagger on its push attack, it's mobility feels that could use a tune down but not much imo

[tall torrent]

It can use a bit more damage just to be less RNG dependent with single target dps

I’m gonna blow ur mind with this

[void dragon]

Doubt it knowing you

[tall torrent]

Vet with tac axe is ~similar carapace dps as arb maul

[hollow ibex]

Wait what

How

[void dragon]

I tried taxe crit, it is neat

Crits fly, crusher heads roll

[tall torrent]

Yea both are around 2~2.2k carapace dps

I’m not joking

[void dragon]

Can confirm, he no liar

[jaunty sphinx]

Tac axe is funny

[void dragon]

It's funny considering that utility of the taxe special as high stagger jab

[hollow ibex]

Dafuq is that with rending strikes and WS up?

[tall torrent]

Neither

Just basic spec

[void dragon]

Crits just laugh to caparace

[tall torrent]

I wouldn’t consider tac axe for WS lol

[trim badger]

Vet has extremely good melee dmg xddd

[tall torrent]

If I run WS it’s melee dps spec

[hollow ibex]

How tho I’m usually getting around 1k dps with light spam on mk7

[tall torrent]

What’s mk8

[hollow ibex]

On a ranged spec

[tall torrent]

Uh

Ur using the wrong atks then

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

[trim badger]

A good start for knife and ds would be actually removing uncanny strikes from them

[tall torrent]

Uncanny strike needs to be obliterated

[trim badger]

Only after that I'd say to check if they need more nerfs

[trim badger]

Yes

[tall torrent]

20% max (at 5 stacks). Melee rending only

[void dragon]

Amen

Exterminatus it from the game

[sharp epoch]

dps wise similar but vet cant play like arb and go all in, vet tdr is very conditiona
l

[trim badger]

Tbh I was thinking of removing it from DS and Knife, that way shovel can compete ig

[tall torrent]

No

It just needs to be obliterated in general

Because force sword can still cheese the game with it

[trim badger]

Rip shovel

[void dragon]

Uncanny strike is the issue of many, shovel will survive it

[elder fiber]

kill it and improve shovel instead

[tall torrent]

And shovel needs better damage at base

[trim badger]

Oh yeah also remove it from force sword

[tall torrent]

Not be an uncanny stick

[void dragon]

This is the way

[elder fiber]

esp the folding marks

[trim badger]

I have a dream

DS, knife and force sword struggling with carapace

[tall torrent]

I don’t think they should

[elder fiber]

they still won't struggle on crit builds

[tall torrent]

Crit + finesse build should still deal with them well

I also think carapace dps across melee weapons need to be more standardized

The current outliers are just so ridiculously above the avg

[trim badger]

Yeah I did mention this a lot

Basically proposing on doing it how VT2 does it

Just don't make the head superarmor

[tall torrent]

If u pick out the outliers the carapace dps across weapons are ok-ish

[trim badger]

aka transform carapace heads into flak heads

Problem solved!!!!

[hollow ibex]

what combos are you using then?

and talent tree / perks/blessings

[tall torrent]

Push atk + light overhead + heavy overhead

Heavy overhead with crit-weakspot hits for like 1.84k

[hollow ibex]

what sort of build?

[void dragon]

I can only imagine the mandlads that made caparace plasma gunners on release

[hollow ibex]

and you're not running shred are you?

[tall torrent]

I think I had skirmisher, SC + BiD, EW

Nothing crazy

[tall torrent]

No

BM + headtaker

[hollow ibex]

oh just the right side stuff but not WS

[tall torrent]

Yea I only consider tac axe for ranged spec

[void dragon]

With shred you improve the crits, which is what make taxe bully caparace and unyielding iirc

[tall torrent]

U don’t have to run shred on it

[hollow ibex]

yeah idk

testing it and not getting 2k dps

even on a melee spec build

it'

[tall torrent]

I’ll record when I’m home

[hollow ibex]

it's just PA L H right?

[azure narwhal]

i've grown to really like MkIV axe. run BM and headtaker on it like usual

[hollow ibex]

even with like half crits

it's 1650

[azure narwhal]

preposterous

how could they lie to you

[tall torrent]

I can’t believe I have to tread through 3km of Montreal snow just to record a tac axe clip

[void dragon]

Yeah with the crits from the dodges you can crit relatively consistently, it's just nice to spam in crusher faces

[calm shard]

condition, press executioner's stance button

eeasy game

[sharp epoch]

then your kinda like base arb without an ability on melee

or a dog

[calm shard]

of course I have an ability on melee

I press exe and become immune to all stuns

and guaranteed perfect knowledge on all trappers buried in the horde not playing audio

[sharp epoch]

people just run mods to get that wallhack

[thorn lark]

You could do l1 h2 special

[hybrid plover]

Those people are irrelevant

Genuine goober behavior tbh

[spark helm]

I forgot who it was but I got a little destroyed learning about that mod lmao

[sharp epoch]

just search "psykernautics"

[spark helm]

I had no idea I got just have bootleg exestance on through mods pfft.

[spark helm]

Yeah that one. Jocked my entire career.

https://tenor.com/view/soulja-boy-copied-my-flow-stole-my-flow-word-for-word-bar-for-bar-gif-9024961158651407496

[sharp epoch]

I mean spidey sense is almost the same, it's just radar instead of wall hacks

[spark helm]

Spidey sense I got less smoke for fr. It's not something I'd ever put on, nor would need really. And until anything else happens with audio on the game that makes it untenable, I already developed the blindsense defense way back in l4d2 so eventually the tide games would give me the rest.

It also feels cool sidestepping a net, mutant or hound knowing full well that it was out of my los.

But there are tons of mods that effectively just feed players information that they use to perform better with. Like the mini game mods that show you the items for an auspex or the phage tree, etc.

[sharp epoch]

decode helper is pretty cheaty too

[lucid rivet]

anyone got tips for the veteran penance where you need to end a mission with 0 ammo and a 90% accuracy

[silver patrol]

i got all of them

[sharp epoch]

use a shotgun db

[silver patrol]

that's private game only right?

get a shotgun and shoot and then just stop shooting

[lucid rivet]

wouldnt know

[calm shard]

don't think so

[silver patrol]

play the train map preferably

and remember to unequip survivalist

[spark helm]

Only reason why I even bother with it is because in my experience, I'm usually the main one actually doing the minigames efficiently to begin with so I just put em on anyway. Don't exactly need them though.

[lucid rivet]

dose each pellet count a seperate bullet or if a single pellet hits dose it count it as a hit?

[sharp epoch]

the latter

[lucid rivet]

ah ok

thanks

[spark helm]

Nah. You just have to have that 90% accuracy and be empty at extraction.

[lucid rivet]

no accurance visible in game kinda sucks

[calm shard]

also the game checks for if you have ammo WHEN YOU PULL YOUR GUN OUT

[lucid rivet]

wati

so if i get 0 ammo

[calm shard]

if you get to 0 ammo and just never equip your gun again you'll still get it even if you get ammo from another vet

[lucid rivet]

then stick melee

...

this would have saved

so

so

much time

[silver patrol]

i mean it's heresy difficulty right

[lucid rivet]

yeah

[sharp epoch]

It doesn't help that much I agree, but I feel like it does give you a pretty big advantage compared to not having it

[spark helm]

Is that one hard confirmed? I've had conflicting answers from where I looked around on the internet.

[lucid rivet]

same here

[sharp epoch]

yes it is cause thats how it worked back in the old days too

[spark helm]

Ah I see

[calm shard]

Well I can hardly confirm it myself since I got the damn thing back on release

[tall torrent]

U need help?

[sharp epoch]

just get to zero and never pull it out again

[silver patrol]

since it's on a baby difficulty, you can just go for sure by playing melee vet once you run out of ammo

[lucid rivet]

maybe

[lucid rivet]

my vet is only level 19 ):

[spark helm]

Good to know if I ever say fuck it and do it some day. It's the only penance I don't have that I've never really fallen into completing. That and the zealot one.

[lucid rivet]

i just wnat the shirt tbh

[tall torrent]

I can help u in private game

[spark helm]

I'm pretty agnostic to penance cosmetics. I've just completed stuff over time by simply playing things out, experimenting and performing well.

[lucid rivet]

sure i guess, if youre offerning

offering*

[silver patrol]

i can also help

is this US or EU

[spark helm]

I'll use just about anything in combination unless it's like actually torturous for me to try.

[lucid rivet]

Im EU myself

[silver patrol]

i'm EU too

[tall torrent]

oh then u guys can do it

[sharp epoch]

its like malice minimum right

[silver patrol]

heresy irrc

[sharp epoch]

well they did nerf every difficulty so heresy is old malice

[cinder wagon]

Does the game spawn more enemies if you have the pox gas modifier

Cause earlier I did a mission where we killed well over 2700 enemies, and even maelstrom didn't have that many

[silver patrol]

@lucid rivet if you want add 9979779385

[silver patrol]

was this havoc

[cinder wagon]

It was auric

[lucid rivet]

no code there

wait are you console or pc?

[silver patrol]

pc but it shouldn't matter, there is crossplay

[lucid rivet]

Code did not match any player

[tropic halo]

it increases tox bombers spawns I think?

[tropic halo]

auric mael?

[cinder wagon]

Well the pox gas mission was just regular auric

[sharp epoch]

im pretty sure thats a fs friend code are you trying to add steam

[lucid rivet]

i dont have steam

[cinder wagon]

What about just regular poxwalkers and groaners

[lucid rivet]

im console

[silver patrol]

if i typed it wrong

[tropic halo]

never hurts having plenty of bad guys to kill

[silver patrol]

otherwise give me your code and i'll try

[cinder wagon]

Absolutely

Would have been one of the best missions yet if it wasn't for the fact it was a pox gas mission

[silver patrol]

the code should be 10 characters, are you sure this is the right code

[lucid rivet]

what code is it youre asking for?

[silver patrol]

the friend code

should be in social > find player

[lucid rivet]

3623049113

[tropic halo]

but green drugs

[silver patrol]

strange, code doesn't match

uhhhh party finder should work

[cinder wagon]

It's the badddd version of green drugs

[sharp epoch]

its probablt cause the gas stalls you out longer to fight more mobs

[cinder wagon]

Yeah you may be right tbh

[lucid rivet]

how dose this work exactly? Ive never used part finder before lol

[silver patrol]

you enter party finder and enter a lobby that meets the requirements

there should be a lobby with one player arbiter at heresy difficulty

i saw you and tried to accept but i don't think it worked

[lucid rivet]

so turns out i have crossplay disabled

[silver patrol]

yeah you should enable that

[lucid rivet]

im an idiot

[silver patrol]

maybe i also don't have it enabled?

[lucid rivet]

sent it

[silver patrol]

i saw you but you disappeared after i accepted

[lucid rivet]

try now

[silver patrol]

ok

no train unfortuantely

[lucid rivet]

nws

thanks btw

[silver patrol]

np

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/14886025484175193445/F8F12241AB2C9C171D97FAFFA6626152D598DE27/

[hollow ibex]

oh so H PA L?

too lazy to retest

[void dragon]

PA light Heavy is the way to get all the correct strikes from neutral

[hollow ibex]

that's what i tried and got nowhere near 2.2k dps...

[void dragon]

the thing is that its crits what send the damage to the orbit

[serene bough]

I do not enjoy axes in this game

I wish I liked the tac axe

[void dragon]

the last heavy does around 1800 damage, and the others around 800

but they need to crit

[sharp epoch]

jumps overheads should do extra damage fr

[tame lodge]

cough poor unyielding cough

[void dragon]

its all part of the method

[tame lodge]

Years of Minecraft crit prepared you for this

[void dragon]

me and me lasgun with unyeling infernus: i cant hear you over the sounds of Pew-pews

[tame lodge]

Notice how you use a ranged weapon for unyielding instead of using the melee because the melee unyielding is poor

#nooticing

https://tenor.com/view/galaxypeabrain-gif-11486576679687144877

[silver patrol]

did you get it

[lucid rivet]

idk if it counted

[silver patrol]

check in the penances

[lucid rivet]

nope

probs accuracy

[silver patrol]

damn, what went wrong

also you had survivalist equipped didn't you

[lucid rivet]

no

i had fire team

[silver patrol]

i saw your ammo regenerate tho

[lucid rivet]

ai

the ai veterans come with it

[silver patrol]

i didn't think of that

[lucid rivet]

yea thats what screwed me a few times

i did end the mission with 0 ammon

in both clip and magazine

do you think melee hits count towards accuracy?

[silver patrol]

no

[lucid rivet]

i have an idea

we try again

[silver patrol]

want to retry with the train?

[lucid rivet]

but ill only shoot at bosses

[tall torrent]

Would be quite funny

[lucid rivet]

and extremely large hordes

[silver patrol]

yeah train is perfect then

[lucid rivet]

so i am physically unable to miss

[silver patrol]

tho it's shock troop gauntlet

[lucid rivet]

dost matter to me

dosnt*

[hybrid plover]

Spidey sense isn't nearly as aggregious. It's basically a visualization of the sounds that the game should be making, which some just won't play, which is the main reason that mod even exists.

Psykinautics gives you complete foresight of all of those enemies and their movements and actions so you can just preemptively prepare for any encounter.

There's a reason wallhacks are granted by abilities.

Cuz they're Hella strong when you know how to abuse them.

Or we'll, why EO is Arbites best keystone by miles.

Don't get me wrong. I don't run Spidey. I feel any mod that gives you that much of an edge over other players who may not be able to have something like that just feels off to me personally but, I think one is definitely worse than the other.

[sharp epoch]

spidey sense is actually better in a better player hands, because it helps you 360 while psykernautics is just in your fov

and good players just need to know the relative direction specials are then they can take them out easily

[lucid rivet]

@silver patrol got it tysm

[silver patrol]

you are welcome, have fun

[lucid rivet]

also, is the arbiter worth buying now or should i wait for new one

[silver patrol]

it's pretty fun imo

it's my most played class

[lucid rivet]

fair enough

ill definately give it a shot

again tysm

[silver patrol]

you are welcome again

[hybrid plover]

The point I'm making is that spidey sense is visualizing info you should be getting as a player and sometimes just don't.

That's different from having access to information you shouldn't normally without actual investment

[sharp epoch]

That's mostly true, but I'm pretty sure the direction audio isn't good enough to pinpoint the exact direction specials and elites are at all times for spidey sense so its not exactly the information we have

[hybrid plover]

It's like that because Fatshark insists on elite/specialist spam to make the game harder to the point where the sound can't handle it.

[tame lodge]

[hybrid plover]

This straight up is a non-issue in say, VT2

[void dragon]

I like Spidey sense as someone who has some hearing issues so I can actually react to the enemies I would not hear because ObeseFish audio cues are so garbo

[silver patrol]

it's actually hilarious how specials and elites are noisy in vt2

while here you could just get ambushed by a ninja crusher

and damn, the skavens were the ones supposed to train ninja ogryns

not damn chaos

[void dragon]

Seriously can't hear crushers, idk what is their actual sound cue to this day

They are the bane of my experience

[thorn lark]

There is a sound cue for crushers?

[silver patrol]

not really

[sharp epoch]

pitter patter of their feet

[void dragon]

They shamelessly don't have one?!

[thorn lark]

clinc clinc when i shoot them tho

[silver patrol]

it's not really something you pick up if you are not paying 100% attention and the area is not chill

[thorn lark]

oh it's a crusher!

[hollow ibex]

you hear heavy foosteps when there's literally nothing around

so basically never

idk if they even have lines

[silver patrol]

basically

they do have lines irrc

[hollow ibex]

maulers do, though it's not common

idr hearing crusher lines lol

[spark helm]

It's just like deep bass monster stuff

[silver patrol]

yeah they are like bulwarks but deeper and a bit muffled (since they are full armor)

[spark helm]

The footsteps are the main thing. Maulers usually make themselves known through their uh little chainsaw weapons.

[hollow ibex]

bulkwarks have lines??

ngl never noticed

[silver patrol]

they do, once they engage

[spark helm]

Mhm. The ogryn units can be harder to hear sometimes in a thick fight

[hollow ibex]

man i don't remember ever hearing ogryn lines lol

[spark helm]

They roar for their lunge attacks and stuff which is a common opening attack against players already just dodging anyway.

[silver patrol]

also while bulwarks are generally a joke

damn, they sure hit hard

if they ever land a hit

[spark helm]

I straight up forgot any lines bulwarks they use.

[silver patrol]

thankfully spidey sense does mark crushers with a red line

[tropic halo]

Gonna slap y'all

[void dragon]

Same, the "I'll crush you" is from the maulers, damn you ObeseFish why?!

[silver patrol]

yeah, that's so stupid

they should say "i'll maul you" instead

[calm shard]

Crushers when they crush you

[void dragon]

I tried to take a hit from one to test and GOLLY that might be a clumsy swing but it does hurt

[void dragon]

They give me the pancake treatment and they don't even ask, so rude

[serene bough]

I thought they do

I thought ive heard them say "maul you"

[hollow ibex]

Its not even the worst attack. The worst attack is the stupid bash

[silver patrol]

not sure, they usually also get drowned in noise

the bash does like nothing but it's so annoying

in fact i think it does literally no damage

[hybrid plover]

The shield bash?

[silver patrol]

yeah

[hybrid plover]

Yeah it doesn't do damage

But it will completely deplete your stamina if you're blocking

Which is extremely dangerous actually.

[silver patrol]

that's crazy, they usually only do the bash if you attack the shield too much

[serene bough]

I used kraks before the buffs to them solely because I hate bulwarks

Especially that stamina depleting shove

[silver patrol]

yeah everytime i see a vet vomiting 3 kraks on the bulwark train i can only clap

[hybrid plover]

Bulwarks gotta be one of the worst designed enemies in the game if I'll be real.

[hollow ibex]

yeah shits so annoying

and the fact that friendly fire can trigger the shield bash

gunner shooting into shield? now the bulwark can shield bash

[silver patrol]

i think their shield just has insane hitboxes

[hollow ibex]

go fuck yourself

[hybrid plover]

Hit boxes are extremely obnoxious.

[serene bough]

It used to be even worse

[silver patrol]

i can only imagine

[serene bough]

Those days were the worst

[silver patrol]

i think i experienced that too since i did play at release

[hollow ibex]

force shield

when there was literally just a huge hitbox around the shield

then they made it only the actual physical shield

but buffed bulwark hp to "compensate"

lol

[void dragon]

I feel it has a cd, once they use it they don't do for a while, but can be their opening attack

[sharp epoch]

THEY SAY WRECKING CREW ITS ICONIC

the reaper line also goes hard

"loyalistssssss"

[void dragon]

That's new one for me, oddly it's hard for me to not see them, unlike THOSE DAMNED CRUSHERS!

[compact oracle]

they also say "no stopping meeee"

[sharp epoch]

yes yes

[compact oracle]

i think thats also the playable charge ogryn line

ive heard reaper and bulwark lines, ive never once heard a crusher line

i mostly watch out for their walking noises which typically works

[sharp epoch]

crushers just say urgfhhh when theyre about to pancake you

[compact oracle]

yeah all their groaning but ive never noticed if they said anything coherent

im listening to a video and i dont recognize a single one of these

[sharp epoch]

seems like they share it

[silver patrol]

i thought weaklings was said by the mauler

well he also prob has it

quite iconic imo

[spark helm]

Never knew that bulwarks actually can pop stamina like that on blocked shield bashes. Genuinely interesting and cool sort of interaction for a unit like that. I usually have just dodged or already slapped a nade on them or whatever.

[hollow ibex]

You find aids cool?

[spark helm]

No. It's a devastating disease with messed up reasons for why it was allowed to spread. I do however, like enemies that have small things like that to consciously play around because I just like interactivity against enemies in video games like this. Sort of like how shields work in vt2 or how parrying interacts with plague rats, etc.

I like being able to engage with pve enemies in melee games beyond dodging and cutting their heads open.

[void dragon]

Enemies with attacks that you must respect are awesome

[hollow ibex]

yeah except this isn't something to respect, it's just shit design

it's meant to punish you for bashing their shield

yet it can be constantly triggered by heretic attacks too

it's also pretty much instant

so you can't really dodge it

[spark helm]

It's definitely not instant but I will say that the speed is pretty quick and in tighter clusters just not exactly something that can always be dealt with. Granted I suppose that's why they're one of the worst enemies to get bully cornered by because of it. Never knew about other things affecting it as I usually just walk up and anticipate something coming out.

[hollow ibex]

didnt say it was instant

but it's very quick and extremely poorly telegraphed

[spark helm]

That's definitely the point of a short bash or like a jab from them chaos warriors in vt2.

Eh...more of a straight punch but whatever

[hollow ibex]

it'd be fine if it can only bash a person that actually hit the shield themselves

[void dragon]

wait, you cant see them leaning for it? they will try to do it as first move when you engage them sometimes

[tribal pebble]

i wanting to use combat knife

[spark helm]

I'm fine with it just being a possible opener

I just always assume a bulwark is going to come out swinging if I just walk up to it. They have like what three attacks? Four?

[tribal pebble]

yes i know it is easy when using resource but i was doing practice for prepare for when have nothing

[tall torrent]

run, kite & pick them off 1 by 1

[tribal pebble]

i do this in video i fight them

[tall torrent]

use heavy atks

[tribal pebble]

i try this many time but is unsafe

this happen many time

[hybrid plover]

That knife doesn't seem to be doin a lot of damage tbh

[azure narwhal]

you'll never be in that position though, literally. what resources were used here that cannot be regained

4 bullets? survivalist gives it back immediately, ability? already back

[hollow ibex]

Never noticed

[tribal pebble]

i am not use this ability

[void dragon]

in my experience they do a full noticeable stop before leaning for the bash, its a sudent stop

[tribal pebble]

and i use revolver

so it is less effective

it is not only the resource that will always have it is the thing that maybe do not have bringing

i say this not because i do not want using resource but because i am not wanting advice about using specific item

[spark helm]

I'll give it a look because I just twitch dodge usually or stutterstep towards them to bait their lunges.

And their sweep

[hollow ibex]

will keep an eye out, not exactly an obvious tell in the heat of things

unless you already knew about it ahead of time

[tall torrent]

wats ur build

[tribal pebble]

i am always use combat knife but i change with other thing

[tall torrent]

no I mean wats ur whole talent tree

[elder vessel]

Not speaking on how good they perform but goddamn the vigilant autoguns are satisfying as hell

[tribal pebble]

i am not yet level 30

[void dragon]

i usually assume thats the only move they will toss until they toss it, they cant do it repeated

[tribal pebble]

i change many thing

[elder vessel]

Love stapleguns

[tall torrent]

oh then don't worry abt it

I'll also just say

knife is really not that great at fighting high mass dense hordes

[void dragon]

oddly doesnt feel that has a lot of range, so you can backpedal and sometimes avoid it because they are too far away

[tribal pebble]

it is sad but it is ok i love knife dodge

[sly orchid]

Tactical axe is a great alternative and has knife dodges

[tall torrent]

it's not as good dodge as knife

[sly orchid]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1124335205650538509/1283126260775784529/bonk_loop.gif