#veteran-class

1 messages · Page 1593 of 1

reef island
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i love that one, it stuns ragers instantly to their face

dapper coyote
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Use the Holy Ordained Inquisition Sanctioned stabbing loicense

reef island
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i think yu can knock the maulers off their over head strike if you land it twice or thrice

reef island
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i kinda realise, some build for veteran dont really use the last purple nodes at the bottom... at least alot of me build forgo it if i favor melee

dapper coyote
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WS nodes is great for Melee Vet

compact oracle
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the reload node for WS is very good

dapper coyote
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Middle tree nodes before focus target is generally fucking epic

compact oracle
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for things like db shotty, revolver, bistol

reef island
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i used it a bit, but i sometimes prefer having more nades or other effects

dapper coyote
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Grenade regen + rending TO ALL WEAPON + 20% more dmg to every ogryns and monstrosities

reef island
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especially for shredders

dapper coyote
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We just use krak in havoc

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Its just, to whom it may concerns

reef island
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hahahaha, i could never find a group in game so i never touched that

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tho theres not enough krak to go around for the new event... theres like 4 crusher every 20m or so

dapper coyote
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Smokes are amazing in open sections maps, since you can cheese the living fuck out of the ranged enemies

reef island
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i always find smokes odd, snipers sometimes still lock on to you through smoke

dapper coyote
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Pseudo Psyker bubble

dapper coyote
tepid otter
dapper coyote
tepid otter
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Skyrim moment

dapper coyote
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Im probably gonna go back and retry HB whilst waiting for good plasma stats rolls to kick in

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Or reccy if im lazy

reef island
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well the stagger blessings and dmg on stagger are great on hellbores stabbaton

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amazing they allow you to semi sprint while holding down the melee button for it too

dapper coyote
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There's a few builds here that somehow managed to make the HB full charge fire 60k dmg

reef island
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lol that must be alot of setups tho

dapper coyote
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Idfk how, but its plausible

tepid otter
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After proccing every buff known to man

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Idk how they do it either lmao

dapper coyote
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I need to do the Rail HB build

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Just one tapping boss

tepid otter
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ACtual rail gun would prolly be sick tho

dapper coyote
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-# and die to chaffs

tepid otter
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Want that Las machine guns the Heretic gunners use

dapper coyote
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We won't getting snipers because if we do the next patch there's so many vet using snipers and dying to chaffs

reef island
tepid otter
reef island
dapper coyote
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Its probably why we don't get powered scopes (scopes with zoom) lmao

tepid otter
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Think it'd be weird

reef island
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i think we would see more one shot builds, and the veterans pulling shite out of their arse to maintain stacks of a million buffs or something

tepid otter
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Since youre just beset on all sides all the time

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In high difficulties anyway

dapper coyote
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I'd do well with a 4x or 2x even in such cramp situations but i won't be snapping targets when theres FUCKING 8 CRUSHERS

tepid otter
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Hmm, yeah 2x scopes would prolly work

compact oracle
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helbore proves its at least somewhat possible

tepid otter
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Might actually be a decent addition ngl

compact oracle
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but definitely not like a full on see nothing else scope

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dmr more than sniper, i guess

dapper coyote
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2x is most often used for CQC

compact oracle
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helbore would benefit so much from having decent sights

reef island
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bolter too

dapper coyote
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Because it doesn't totally impede you yet gives you some zoom

reef island
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those sticks welded on the frame are not zeroed sometimes

tepid otter
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Would prolly make more sense in a weapon customization thing, but FS doesnt wanna go down that route as far as Ive heard

dapper coyote
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🇫

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Wot a shame

tepid otter
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Indeedy, dont want the game turning out like CoD they mentioned? but eh

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i guess they would know best

dapper coyote
tepid otter
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I do like personalizing items/gears in games, make it seem like its catered to your char, just for rp reasons lmao

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I think theres some mods that do it but I dont want my game breaking everytime theres an update

compact oracle
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id prefer having small sight changes to trinkets i rarely ever see

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also weapon customization mod tanks my performance

rigid pilot
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does power falchion just do less single target than powersword? takes forever to kill crushers

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might be because of crusher hp buffs though

reef island
rigid pilot
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In the old days you could 2 shot crushers with pee6 stab overhead

azure narwhal
reef island
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hmmm well if anything, the falchion is far easier to use all round

rigid pilot
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Wrath seems to be the blessing pick

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Or am I missing smth

azure narwhal
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If mk1, push attack, if mk2, loop uppercuts

rigid pilot
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Great I was running that

tame lodge
rigid pilot
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I used both but I prefer mk1, just feels more intuitive

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But guh is the redeeming factor like wrath

reef island
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mk1 light attacks are more all round

rigid pilot
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I'm trying my best to not go back to pee6 whatthefuck_heresy

tame lodge
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Just accept that all the roads lead to Power Sword 6

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Then enjoy mediocrity of Midchion

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🫡

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I was also checking

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And apparently you unlock Psword around level 13

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And Midchion around level 23

rigid pilot
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Perfect block blessings would be great in a different game

tame lodge
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Actually true

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Does vet even have perfect block talents

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I don't think so, even less reasons to take perfect block blessings

rigid pilot
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Yea you can't block overheads sooo

reef island
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hmmm whats the go to ranged weapons for havok?

tame lodge
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Isn't Psword the actual melee for learning melee combat and activation?

tame lodge
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In no particular order

reef island
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no bolter?

azure narwhal
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Ehh

reef island
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hahaha im a big fan of it

tame lodge
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Probably usable if you're dedicated marksman

dapper coyote
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Too heavy and sluggish movement

silver patrol
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takes 10 years to take out

dapper coyote
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Unless its plasma, because plasma deletes target even though its heavy

reef island
azure narwhal
dapper coyote
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If you wanted bolter stuff stick to pistol

azure narwhal
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Needs you to work on it

dapper coyote
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Its fast and hits well enough

reef island
toxic reef
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having a lot of fun with zarona shotty exec stance

dapper coyote
reef island
dapper coyote
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You lose the full auto in exchange for rapid deployment and mobility

azure narwhal
tame lodge
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You take Bistol on havoc for grenadier reasons

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Lol

azure narwhal
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Stupidly strong w stacking buffs

toxic reef
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got this in range only maelstrom

image.png
reef island
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with grenades i mean

tame lodge
dapper coyote
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Yes

reef island
dapper coyote
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The point blank also buffs nades

azure narwhal
# tame lodge

New players thinking power falchion is the sauce KEKW_ogryn thanks fatshark

tame lodge
toxic reef
dapper coyote
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Krak that can kill crowd

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Which is fucking dope

reef island
toxic reef
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oh I've never tried the shredder nade strat but with kraks

reef island
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the new explosive round bolter, does the point blank buffs its AOE?

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wait my bad its not even the same gun

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fatshark should give that blessing to bolters

toxic reef
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explosive bolter got good blessings as is

azure narwhal
toxic reef
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ah ok I mostly primary so

azure narwhal
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Understandable, same here

toxic reef
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I'll try some out, ty

dapper coyote
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I feel like the extra nade node for the 25% is just: every 4th time you use grenade there a 2nd nade tossed for free

azure narwhal
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One day i get it all

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The rest it just doesn't happen

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I should not gamble

dapper coyote
azure narwhal
distant mural
dapper coyote
azure narwhal
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Trve

fast shale
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Hi, question, since the enemy buff its a good idea to use the brittleness blessing on rashad axe? Currently using brutal momentum and the brittleness blessing or should swap for something else?

rich aurora
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Brutal Momentum and Headtaker. No contest.

fast shale
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Even for crushers?

rich aurora
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Yep. If you're gonna do something specialized, you could go with Thrust or maybe Shred.

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But overall, Headtaker's gonna have better uptime and better performance

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Any buff that's "hit the target AND you get this buff for X seconds" is busted af

fast shale
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Oh I see, so no matter I will have a better time with headtaker it seems

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Aig thanks, omw to test it out

rich aurora
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lol I tried em all

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Consider the tac axe since you're on vet as well

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It's really good

tame lodge
dapper coyote
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From what i heard brittleness is ass

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Speaking of brittleness

fast shale
rich aurora
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It's not ass, but there's no effective method of applying it to everything at once

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Ogryns can apply it with their single-shot grenade launcher

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Busted af

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Bully club applies it as a spread

fast shale
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Wouldn't it be better if the Zealot got some nice utility blessing on weapons lile the bolt pistol? the same way vet have with the explosion distance? I'm aware Zealot got access to it too but something more in theme with the char would be great

rich aurora
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I've been rockin' the Shredder Pistol on Zealot ever since they made it so you can sprint and fire at the same time without the blessing.

fast shale
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Maybe 10% att speed on melee after 1 kill with your range, something like that

tame lodge
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As a zealot

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I don't need to use my ranged

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So

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That would be

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Not optimal

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Although it would be better than the old talent

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Where you had to empty your mag

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Before getting attack speed for like

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5 seconds

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(it was trash)

reef island
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hmm does the brittleness talent apply to ranged weapons?

slow spade
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Yeah any ranged weapons

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Though I don't know if grenades apply it

reef island
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hmm i thinking if its worth specing that deep for a recon lasgun to apply brittleness but losing alot of other stuff

hollow ibex
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not worth it

slow spade
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While it is true that recon benefits from rending/brittleness, it's typically not worth it

tame lodge
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yeah if youre thinking about Onslaught

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youd really only find value at shooting crushers

slow spade
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Recon kills quick enough that you're better off stacking damage somewhere else

tame lodge
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which we dont recommend

reef island
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does it do anything to like unarmored targets?

tame lodge
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nope

slow spade
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No benefit

reef island
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yea i mean, what else ye gonna shred, the cloths off them?

slow spade
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Maniac does get benefit though despite being "unarmored"

tame lodge
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rending brittle doesnt affect unarmored nor infested

reef island
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odd question, does grenade benefit from damage buffs?

slow spade
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For the most part, rending and brittleness are neat additions rather than a focus

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Unless you're doing some funny grenade build

slow spade
reef island
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im thinking of the infiltrate damage buff.. and if it stacks with grenades

tall torrent
slow spade
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Stuff like Longshot, Focus Target, and Superiority Complex do help

tall torrent
tall torrent
slow spade
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Such is life, thanks for the info :c

tall torrent
reef island
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oooh wait, so the grenades are ranged damage?

slow spade
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I've been throwing grenades long distances thinking it worked 😔

slow spade
tall torrent
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explosion dmg

reef island
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awwww

slow spade
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Which is buffed by pure "damage" buff stuff like Focus Target

reef island
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im gonna try and find a way to make shredder somehow kill armored big bois fast

tall torrent
tame lodge
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Uncanny Strike

slow spade
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Yeah sadly that's going to need a lot of rending

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Uncanny is indeed your best shot

reef island
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uncanny strike? where that from?

slow spade
tame lodge
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Knife
Dueling sword
Shovel

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What else on vet

slow spade
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I think it's just those 3

reef island
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shovel it is XD

tame lodge
slow spade
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So you'll want to find ways to keep the bleeding stacks up

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Like grenade regen talents

reef island
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so you are saying their armor reduce bleed damage?

slow spade
reef island
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damn nurgle done work some upgrades

slow spade
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I think that was like literally the first patch of the game where they removed that

slow spade
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Though warpfire from stuff like purg staff have almost perfect armor pen (almost no armor pen vs carapace) if you want to mess with it

reef island
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lol i know its balance, but its funny to think about

slow spade
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Indeed :c it was funny because it bricked Recon for years

reef island
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nurgle blessing their armor to include bandages or something

slow spade
reef island
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the gene stealers will want to know their location

fast shale
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Adding brittlenes into a target have the same effect as rending for my nades?

slow spade
reef island
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btw, does covering fire talent apply to your self also?

hollow ibex
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rending is more effective on nades

slow spade
hollow ibex
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cuz it applies everywhere

slow spade
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Covering fire is sadly ass

hollow ibex
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brittleness is only on the stuff you hit with whatever's causing the brittleness

fast shale
slow spade
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But the actual effect of rending and brittleness is basically the same

fast shale
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Aig thanks fellas

slow spade
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Would be cool if covering fire was less strict for when it applied

reef island
hollow ibex
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not worth a point

slow spade
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And it only applies on kills so you can't use it to assist with dangerous enemies like crushers

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So it's "good on paper, bad in practice" kind of talent

reef island
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hard to apply when it is needed eh

slow spade
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Indeed

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Part of why Competitive Edge (2.5% chance for big buffs when ally kills an enemy) sucks

reef island
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im gambling on it to work when i lob nades tho XD

slow spade
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It's most reliable when you're already winning :c

slow spade
reef island
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it was there before the rework i think, but its like something no one picks, need better proc condition

slow spade
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Indeed and it's been outclassed too

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"+25% damage for sliding and running"

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"+25% damage for killing with melee/ranged"

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Right side of tree "might" be a tad stacked

reef island
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so infiltrate shredder isnt crazy on armored orgyns, but it takes care of them if you got 3 nades

serene bough
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well you can set it up w/ uncanny to deal with armor

reef island
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lob one infiltrate, lob another to break stealth, and its quite interesting

reef island
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prefer stuff with as little setup as possible, aint always gonna have stacks

serene bough
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build some stacks, lob one into stealth, lob another in stealth, continue the process

reef island
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yea, but with power sword + infiltrate, it can do some work in an emergency

serene bough
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your dmg boost will last after stealth anyways to rebuild if you lose anyways

reef island
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worked well enough on auric event

hollow ibex
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yeah shreds anything except carapace

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with carapace you need uncanny stacks

reef island
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it will be too hard to get those stacks sometimes tho

hollow ibex
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yeah frags aren't a reliable way to fight crushers

reef island
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but it throws them around, helpful to make space when it gets a little fiesty

hollow ibex
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yup i usually only use a single frag for crusher stagger

reef island
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it applies max bleed stacks rite?

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how long does bleed stacks last tho

hollow ibex
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depends on how many stacks you have

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each stack is 1.5s

reef island
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so it decays one by one?

tall torrent
reef island
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yea, doesnt last long enough to make a difference on crushers

silver patrol
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crushers also heavily resist it no?

hollow ibex
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yes

reef island
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i'll try this odd combo out a bit more, see how it holds up

fast shale
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Is somebody having this same issue? When I go to my builds the one Im currently at is not selected on screen, if I made changes with the screen like this it will not save until I actually select the build

image.png
rich aurora
umbral scaffold
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whats dump stat on yall's braced autoguns?

silver patrol
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mobility

umbral scaffold
silver patrol
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yeah i think so

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everything else is either damage or cleave

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if a weapon has mobility and/or defense, those are usually the dump stat, with some exception (like psyker's weapons)

umbral scaffold
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yea a tiny bit of sprint speed indeed seems

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not significant enough

silver patrol
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yeah

umbral scaffold
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whats the dump stat on the big boy plasma gunKEKW_ogryn

silver patrol
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that's a bit harder because in theory, you need a spread of dump stats instead of only one

calm shard
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don't hurt yourself

umbral scaffold
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so this not that great then

image.png
silver patrol
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it's great

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i would just keep this

umbral scaffold
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ah alright

silver patrol
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there is a very, very slight difference between this and the optimal roll

calm shard
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uh

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no

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the stats are breakpoints

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the jump between 68 and 69 thermal is an entire extra shot

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and the jump between 70/71 charge rate is like

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one sec forgot the numbers exactly

silver patrol
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it's not even 0.05 seconds

fair shale
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@tired egret

silver patrol
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it's 0.01 seconds between 67 and 71

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this really does not matter

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bros have to check the actual numbers before just saying the optimal roll from memory

fair shale
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I just ping the guy with the name

vestal olive
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So idk what you're talking about. There is no "breakpoint" being missed here. It's just slightly slower.

steel veldt
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Just realised

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All my non Exe Stance builds lack the 30% extra weakspot damage talent

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But I can't take it...

vestal olive
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Yes you can

silver patrol
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surely you got something you can triage

vestal olive
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Top 5 nodes in the tree 😭

steel veldt
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I should, yeah

silver patrol
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if i remember right, it applies to melee too right?

steel veldt
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Wait what

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Really?

silver patrol
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irrc it says +30% weakspot damage

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doesn't say ranged or melee, so it should be global

hollow ibex
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yeah

steel veldt
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Damn

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Mb

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so what do I remove here to take precision strikes

faint minnow
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Is there a tier list for weapons?

silver patrol
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no i don't think so

silver patrol
calm shard
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At least the good ones would be correct

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Beyond the obvious good weapons it'd be a bit more dicey xd

faint minnow
calm shard
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not ordered

silver patrol
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seems about right

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btw these are when the weapon is fully built

calm shard
#

yeah

gilded wraith
steel veldt
silver patrol
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i would sacrifice the rending and the talent for the bonus against monstrousities

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tho voc only has one talent to spend on its subnodes

steel veldt
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I shall think 'bout it

silver patrol
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so you could keep rending if the weapons you use suck against armor

steel veldt
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30% better weakspot damage would help versus... everything

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and I do use combat blade + bpistol

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so armor isn't a problem

spark helm
steel veldt
calm shard
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because several of their weapons you have to build for

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like the double barrel is an excellent weapon exclusively on WS builds

spark helm
steel veldt
spark helm
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Mhm

steel veldt
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Precision strikes seem cool

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however, grenades.

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shredder frags

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I become actual Demoman

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just constant barrages of bleed explosions

silver patrol
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i wouldn't sacrifice grenade talents in a voc build

spark helm
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Mhm. You could stand to maybe remove no one left behind as a start. It's not awful but a very marginal qol talent that solid play from voc antics can help

steel veldt
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Then I need to remove something else

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that's the issue

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I need 2 for precision

calm shard
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could drop the 2nd stealth charge

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since it's a sidegrade and not an actual upgrade

spark helm
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Grenadier if you're okay with it. A good nade toss will usually do it for you.

calm shard
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with shredders grenadier is pretty good if a bit inconsistent

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it's a 20% chance that you won't have to throw a second grenade to outright kill the horde

spark helm
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Not supremely necessary but the feel is a lot better

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You'd probably juat need to test out what removing the bottom two mid ones too. Iirc bp and cb font exactly need them. Could be wrong so just test against targets.

I'd drop NOLB and grenadier to get precision strikes. Maybe the double charge of infiltrate for the dmg reduction one and -90% aggro

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Or drop the double for the talent in the bottom right that gives bonus damage to weapon swapping.

steel veldt
#

So Ig not

calm shard
#

agile engagement my beloved

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used to spend 3 skill points for that monster of a skill on WS builds back in the day

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dark times

spark helm
steel veldt
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getting precision lo

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I need those talents

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for Infilrtare

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Infiltrate

spark helm
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Mm. You could just drop grenadier and nolb

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And get it that way

steel veldt
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I guess?

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demoman tho

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I did just join in the middle of a game and already nearly outdamaged the Arby

spark helm
#

Well you'll be able to just get more chances for nades with demolition team spinning to begin eith. More chances for more nades. If you ever get to hunker down and have an ammo crate, you got that as well. Plus, since you're taking weapon specialist and skirmisher, you're already going to be juicing your weapon and nade dmg

steel veldt
#

God I love grenades.

calm shard
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or just play infiltrate like a maniac

image.png
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can never have enough damage

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;)

steel veldt
#

considering how much I love to combo with my ranged weapon I require volley adept

calm shard
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do you?

steel veldt
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Yes

calm shard
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you could just use the WS upgrade that automatically reloads your gun

steel veldt
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only one bullet

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I magdump that bitch

calm shard
#

varies per gun

silver patrol
#

boltpistol

calm shard
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and all the best WS guns are single shooters anyways

silver patrol
#

so i dunno if it's really that good

calm shard
#

with grenade talents 100% bolt pistol

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make syour grenades bigger

steel veldt
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I don't actually use lethal proximity

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I use puncture and the crito ne

calm shard
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ah I see

silver patrol
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is that legal

calm shard
#

diet laspistol bolt pistol

steel veldt
spark helm
# steel veldt only one bullet

The idea here is that you're swapping more regularly. Even one in the chamber going back in is huge. And I'm pretty sure you can get like 3 rounds back max if you lean into your stacks more.

spark helm
calm shard
#

yeah but it's like

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at that point why use bistol

spark helm
# calm shard or just play infiltrate like a maniac

And this is a little bit more in the way of something that can stabilize your output with an infiltrate build running those weapons. Lacking volley adept here might not be supremely ideal for you @steel veldt but I'd say that better reload and shooting habits can help remedy a bit of it.

spark helm
calm shard
#

I'll show you bistol focus with a bistol exe build

spark helm
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And at the very least up to aurics it's not like it's a weapon that's suffering for performance.

spark helm
calm shard
#

that could one shot crusher before their health increase

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I wonder if it still does

spark helm
#

Maybe, who knows.

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I haven't ran exestance with a bistol yet since the patch but even then it can put in the work and is a lot of fun in ws builds.

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Their choice to forgo lethal proximity isn't the end of the world with that gun.

calm shard
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it's the end of my world with that gun

spark helm
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Good thing there's many worlds then :^)

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But I hear you. I like it a lot as well. Feels good.

hollow ibex
steel veldt
spark helm
# steel veldt Wdym

This talent spread gives you additional damage steroids to give you even more power spikes during and after infiltrate basically. Your dps is going to go up at the cost of your volley adept and longshot not being there.

calm shard
#

"additional damage steroids" like it isn't a meme oops all damage infiltrate build that I threw together as a joke

spark helm
#

And I play a shitton of infiltrate. This isn't a terrible setup. You're memeing but this isn't really bad at all. The only issue here can be problems with uptime droughts on spinning infiltrate again but everything else is fine.

steel veldt
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I don't really use infiltrate for damage though

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I use it to go in and get out

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either go in and one shot a bunch of mobs with nades or melee

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or get out of jail card

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not really pure damage

calm shard
#

you deny your weapon its purpose

steel veldt
#

NO

spark helm
#

Yeah and you're going to have an easier time going in and out with the additional damage to show for it. The utility of infiltrate will still work for you and you can just underhand toss nades to stagger your reveal. The tdr afterwards can also help promote you not eating too much shit.

You can also just remove the ability bonus talents in favor of what you were already doing with infiltrate to begin with as well.

#

A lot of infiltrate as you already know is taking advantage of the opportunities you create for yourself to reposition, take down targets, get revives, etc.

steel veldt
#

I do like the double charge and 90% less threat

#

the 90% less threat is amazing

#

it's like 20 seconds of Infiltrate!

hollow ibex
#

yeah until all your teammates are dead

spark helm
#

That works as well yes.

hollow ibex
#

and it does nothing lol

spark helm
#

You'd just have to be more responsible with your use of it and actually be more proactive which you can just do freely.

#

Since yk, you're not getting attacked. Just be mindful of the situation in the moment.

steel veldt
spark helm
#

If you want those two talents, just drop the two other red talents at the bottom and grab the infiltrate modifiers you like.

spark helm
# steel veldt The trick is to never let that happen with the free revives

Sometimes, it's a lot better to not risk total failure. If you really want it that badly, you can maybe take like one or two revive speed curios instead of nolb. In the voc build especially, nolb goes down in usefulness because voc already acts as a preventative measure for teammates with more conscious use of it at a dramatically lower cooldown rate and uptime compared to infiltrate.

hollow ibex
#

it's trolling your team

calm shard
steel veldt
#

I use infiltrate for at most 5 sec

#

only to reposition

#

and throw grenades

hollow ibex
steel veldt
#

like the worst offender was a full 8 sec where I threw 4 grenades

#

I did clear out every gunner and shotgunner tho

#

it was great fun

calm shard
#

infiltrate damage boost applies to your grenades btw

spark helm
#

It's not like you can't also just be proactive with attacking things by taking advantage of the aggro drop either.

calm shard
#

it's very good

hollow ibex
#

yeah stealth bomber is pretty silly

#

and the only reason i still play infil

#

over ES

steel veldt
#

I love being a stealth demoman

spark helm
#

So even if you have teammates being attacked, you can just play to keep yourself near them for additional support.

calm shard
#

ES has completely won me over to the point that I don't think I can say I'm a psyker main anymore xd

#

level 380 vet and my psyker is still at 330

spark helm
#

Or in line of sight/range of sprinting. I'd say that's way better than taking nobody left behind and hoping that you'll get a savior moment. You can still take it if you like it that much, just something to consider.

steel veldt
#

I don't really like ES that much

#

it doesn't really fit me

#

I use it sometimes but it's not me yk?

#

I am way more a VoC/Infiltrate fellow

#

those 2 fit me so well

#

One is stealth and I LOOOOVE rogue archetypes in games

spark helm
#

As long as you aren't giving up a bunch of damage/not addressing vip enemies in a fight you'll be fine most days.

steel veldt
#

and the other is being a commissar

steel veldt
#

I clear VIP enemies

hollow ibex
#

or server name

calm shard
#

yeah true

#

my psyking days are over

spark helm
# steel veldt The only reason I got low damage is sucking at the video game

Mhm. This is another reason why considering playing with that one variant dude provided may be useful to you. Basically, your execution habits and fundamental play are going to be put to harder task in some respects just by taking infiltrate A common problem that plenty of infiltrate vets can have is not being familiar enough with their build's interactions and ramp, meaning that situations where they're actually in a fantastic position to turn around for the better can be forgone for safety that can get themselves isolated from their team, exhausting their own resources too soon and teammates that can't exactly defend themselves as good as they can taking unnecessary amounts of attention from the vet popping infiltrate after failing something. All of that gets polished with repetition but better informed from experimentation as well. Even if you're not going to run it now, maybe just save that talent spread and use it later as you please.

steel veldt
#

Well, you convinced me

#

I'll ask my 3k hour friend about it

spark helm
#

That works too. You're the only one that can make those choices in the end. I just say send it and try it out amongst your other spreads and move things around as you please. Perspective is great, but you really don't need anyone's approval for your choices you make for a build. Intent and execution are the key here.

steel veldt
#

he said

#

"no survivalist, trash"

#

"can't check now, but no survivalist, trash"

calm shard
#

okay just like switch to survivalist if you want to

#

on melee vet it's not suuuper necessary

#

especially in aurics

spark helm
#

Not having survivalist can be huge. They're not entirely wrong. Bistol is notorious for it's lower reserves. Ammo is just plentiful in this game too. Plus, if you liberally use the bistol as you say you do, you'll be running out of ammo either way.

#

Since you did say you just magdump

calm shard
#

In havoc yeah you better run survivalist if there isn't another veteran

steel veldt
#

I magdump every once in a while

#

not always

fair shale
#

I'm not accepting a vet without survivalist in havoc I'm ngl

spark helm
steel veldt
#

I don't have the time to magdump

#

Nah I said it wrong

fair shale
#

Unless the group has 3 psykers

steel veldt
#

I should have specified

spark helm
#

Mhm.

#

Survivalist is in effect, the best aura talent for veteran. It fuels everything it already does well. Fire team and movement speed up to aurics isn't awful fr but most people are not bothering at all with those nuances since survivalist is just that strong. The rest of the build isn't collapsing just because you haven't taken it though.

#

You don't not take survivalist and then all of a sudden you're completely incapable of playing the game fr at the levels you're at.

fair shale
#

Freely generating ammo for the entire team is why ranger bardin was the most desired bardin for the entire run of vt2

stuck gorge
spark helm
#

Yeah, this is true but also vt2 is a game where ranger vet has options for 1-2 ranged weapons that also just didn't burn ammo on headshots.

fair shale
stuck gorge
#

I know he also had ale which was ridiculously long lasting

austere mica
spark helm
austere mica
#

Engi had their shining moment

fair shale
#

And iirc it went back to ranger bardin

stuck gorge
calm shard
#

yeah ranger vet was bombs potions and ammo

#

not just ammo

#

all of the classes that wanted ammo were self sufficient enough

#

ironbreaker remained the most popular bardin for the entire lifetime of VT2

#

because y'know it's really easy

spark helm
fair shale
#

Popular=/=desired tbf

spark helm
#

And also uh

fair shale
#

I dont know anyone who was excited to see IB Bardins

#

Their players normally sucked

stuck gorge
#

Me watching the IB bardin taunt then block the whole time

spark helm
#

The main poor performers in my time with that game were unironically zealots the majority of the time.

#

Zealots and idk

fair shale
#

Who are you referring to as zealots?

calm shard
#

shade kerillian

spark helm
#

Can't say kerillian because I was usually kerillian

fair shale
#

Any Kerillian

spark helm
calm shard
#

as your local needle in a haystack Witch Hunter Captain player

#

kerrilian has the worst players

fair shale
#

"I'm gonna bring the gas bow into friendly fire difficulties" I hate you

spark helm
stuck gorge
spark helm
#

But the average kerillian was pretty silly.

fair shale
stuck gorge
fair shale
#

I played WHC or BH Saltz depending on mood

#

And FK/Merc Kruber

spark helm
#

Maybe witch hunters with rapiers that weren't really good with their horde headshots but safe because it's witch hunter.

fair shale
#

I'm ngl I distrust kerillian players so much I don't even believe you rn

calm shard
spark helm
#

I don't care I don't need to prove what I know I've done to you lol

calm shard
#

when he was a glass cannon and not just objectively the best xd

spark helm
#

And kerllian legit wasn't a character that ever struggled to perform. If you were good with kerillian you'd know that

fair shale
#

I am aware of that

#

I just think she attracted the worst players in the game

#

I'm like, acutely aware of how Kerillian could be cause if I couldn't play Saltz or BH I played her

spark helm
#

The main issues with newer players and kerillian were them not actually understanding why she worked the way she worked. Her ease of access to fantastic dodges on just about all her weapons made her great out the gate. But a lot of people newer to the game wouldn't really be grasping the basics of defense nor as good as they could be with aim since she just had multiple ranged options that shared those juicy 1-2 breakpoints that people always wanted.

And, because of her higher dodge counts, newer players could very easily overrely on that and be at a total loss the moment they exhausted their dodges, had poorer horde management and combo game (zero awareness on their reach either) and then just sabotage themselves routinely.

Also, well, a lot of weebs enjoyed kerillian and most weebs aren't too good at stuff. They can always learn but it's whatever. Didn't help that Kerillian is already an asshole of a character so assholes with entitlement problems always had something pointless to say if they fucked themselves.

Gamers™ are pretty bad at holding themselves accountable for their own actions. Something in the gamer fuel, maybe idk.

#

And in this case, the same poor habits would recycle themselves until they hit a hard wall.

broken reef
#

i never checked and assumed i need to have stamina for the deadshot crits to work but, does it just drain stamina and still give you crits no matter what or do you need the stamina to get crit chance?

spark helm
#

Zealots shared this in spades but could usually just bank on aimless flailing to stay alive.

trail ore
#

hey uh i know i might be interrupting whatever is going on here but what's the best dump stat for the plasma gun? I currently have one with ammo as the dump stat but I don't think it's particularly good in that

narrow frost
narrow frost
broken reef
#

assumed as such

trail ore
#

I got this, this good enough?

image.png
narrow frost
#

@tired egret

broken reef
#

it doesnt tell you you need to have stamina it just tells you that it drains stamina

narrow frost
#

I mean, its fine

#

yeah you miss some ammo

#

and tiny bit of dama

trail ore
#

again, the only other one i have is ammo 60

narrow frost
#

damage

broken reef
#

anything below 80 ammo is suboptimal by default

narrow frost
#

not ripper gun

trail ore
#

take a look at this sh...

image.png
narrow frost
#

ripper dumps ammo

#

down to 66%

faint beacon
#

We need someone with the Optimal Ripper Gun Stats name lmao

broken reef
#

optimal shovel stats guy

spark helm
# fair shale I played WHC or BH Saltz depending on mood

I played everyone to an alright degree in terms of playtime.

Favorites though? Hierarchy not entirely 1:1 here but:

  1. Mercenary, Huntsman and Grail Knight Kruber
  2. Ranger Veteran and Slayer Bardin (the rest are dope but I usually played these two the most)
  3. WHC and BH Saltz (barely touched WP but it was fun enough)
  4. Kerillian period
  5. BW, Pyro and Necro Sienna
#

Sienna being the one I have the least amount of experience with. Her and outcast engineer and warrior priest.

fair shale
#

WHC/BH Saltz, Merc/FK Krub>All but if I have to fill it out id play Ranger Bardin or Green Elf over any Sienna class

#

I always liked having a Sienna tho

#

Very strong

spark helm
#

Sienna was really cool and rewarding. I just happened to be playing the game less and less around the time I got to fleshing out cata builds for her.

compact oracle
#

sienna is pretty fun

#

some of her staffs/weapons, i still want to see ported over for psyker

spark helm
#

I think I only got like three or four weapons ready for that

fair shale
#

I just dont like playing mages in like any game

fair shale
compact oracle
#

its nice that in darktide, playing mostly full time mage no longer means you're killing your entire team's hp economy

#

i would fucking LOVE a flail

spark helm
compact oracle
#

it doesnt even have to be for psyker but god i miss flaming flail

spark helm
#

Spellcasters in fighting games are usually the most experience I got with those archetypes.

And the "dark magic" spectrum of playstyles in other games.

fair shale
#

If i like any magic it's the "supplement swinging a big sword" magic

spark helm
#

Yup

compact oracle
#

force greatsword my beloved

fair shale
#

Like Anakin using the force to swing swords better

compact oracle
#

also dragons dogma

spark helm
#

Battle mage and spellswords usually feel cool.

calm shard
vestal olive
#

I love playing mage

#

So good

spark helm
#

My main thing with magic classes is usually hinging on whether or not I feel connected enough with my abilities

vestal olive
#

Diablo 1 and 2 sorc being stupid busted converted me at a young age

spark helm
#

And typically, dark magic in games is often a little more technical

#

Curses, blood magic, necromancy, flesh magic, shadow shit, void etc.

#

Like uh

#

Affliction warlock and shadow priest in wow back when I played those games.

fair shale
spark helm
#

I wanna play wizard but I don't like doing wizard things lmao

fair shale
#

Where Wizards are just The Best Class and playing anything else Is Bad

compact oracle
#

where caster classes get like 100 features in the form of spells and fighter gets to hit harder

fair shale
#

I think a lot of it is on DMs too

dry cloak
fair shale
#

Most DMs don't run a lot of combat in a day which is also makes LR classes stronger

dry cloak
#

in 5.e 2014 martials have more purchase

fair shale
#

Like a barbarian in 2014 might be defacto the worst class in the game

compact oracle
#

what gets me about it is that caster classes get all of this cool shit in the form of spells, and martials the majority of time cant even be better at skill checks because they ALSO have spells for those AND can be just as proficient

dry cloak
compact oracle
#

its not a case of martials being useless garbage or whatever but man it feels bad

dry cloak
#

it was fun to run at 43 km/h

fair shale
#

Theyre half casters iirc

dry cloak
fair shale
#

Nah Paladins are good, theyre the best swing sword class in 24

#

By a mile

spark helm
# fair shale I hate mages because of DnD tbh

I'm not deep into dnd at all and all my friends/mutual peers that are like super deep into tabletop games usually just do whatever in their games with minor changes to the vanilla rules (usually shit like more lenient carry weights and other stuff).

Powergaming is just manifested through someone just playing whatever character they want to the best of their ability with whatever rolls they take.

dry cloak
#

im a barb man at heart

spark helm
#

I just find excuses to make rogues anywhere.

dry cloak
fair shale
compact oracle
#

martials being painfully simple and lacking in options is just really sad

#

like, they dont need to get an entire spell list or anything, but cmon

fair shale
spark helm
calm shard
dry cloak
calm shard
#

second wind you only get ONCE and it doesn't scale at all

#

and weak saves

fair shale
#

Yk that one spell where a wizard can make a disposable dude and invalidate the entirety of the rogue class? Thanks WoTC

mortal aspen
fair shale
#

2024 fighter is actually good

#

2014 is not

compact oracle
#

it would be one thing if martials dont have all the big fancy aoes, whatever, but also not being able to outpace casters in skill checks (especially because they can barely afford to up their mental scores) is kind of eeeeeh

calm shard
mortal aspen
#

you get more, it scales, it gives you bonus to checks if you want

spark helm
#

And for those friends of mine that are actually cracked at tabletop, they usually play other things that aren't wizard

dry cloak
spark helm
#

But one friend had a caster obsession and was a menace

dry cloak
#

and it attacks sends you 10ft back it just does

#

no saving throw

mortal aspen
#

i'm not saying that martials are op, but they're much better

#

lvl 13+ or something is just bullshit regardless of what you play

austere mica
#

Made a 12th level battle master recently

#

Will play them this friday but just building them was pretty fun

compact oracle
#

(not related to base 5e but critical fumble rules making it so you're MORE likely to fuck up as a high level martial is so funny)

fair shale
#

Tbh my biggest issue with BM is that maneuvers don't scale

compact oracle
#

my biggest issue with BM is that everyone doesnt get maneuvers

fair shale
#

They're all balanced around level 3, when you get them

fair shale
calm shard
mortal aspen
#

maneuvers do scale

calm shard
#

It's just not realistic in a world of reality bending wizards for a guy with a sword to be able to do cool things

fair shale
fair shale
#

The maneuver itself does not

mortal aspen
#

that's... the same thing

fair shale
#

No it isn't

mortal aspen
#

the DC increases, the dice increases

austere mica
#

I mean

narrow widget
austere mica
#

Manuevers scale at 15th when you get infinite of them

compact oracle
#

eat the slop

fair shale
#

Wizard gets more free damage for simply leveling

spark helm
#

rogue, bard, ranger, and monk are usually my go-to classes

calm shard
#

I may have a more particularly negative opinion about martials than most having played Matthew Mercer's gunslinger

#

Which is probably the worst designed piece of homebrew I have ever used in any tabletop

compact oracle
#

bards cool

hybrid plover
#

Pf2e chads rise up

compact oracle
#

i always liked laserllama's alternate martials

calm shard
#

Just doubles down on every weakness fighter already has to get very situational upsides

#

blech

fair shale
#

Chrono wizards

#

Graviturgy

#

Echo Knight

compact oracle
#

didnt blood hunter get better apparently

fair shale
#

Gunslinger

compact oracle
#

never used it or played it

mortal aspen
#

just nerf casters and martials will shine ez

calm shard
#

Echo Knight is at least cool

narrow widget
compact oracle
#

just give martials wish

#

its fair

fair shale
compact oracle
#

"pf2e fixes this"

#

every time someone tries to fix 5e they reinvent pathfinder

fair shale
#

I tried rebalancing DnD martials and accidently created PF2e systems

spark helm
#

What's that?

hybrid plover
#

I am spoiled by pf2e at this point

calm shard
fair shale
hybrid plover
#

Going from 5e to that is such a world of difference lol

compact oracle
#

there's 5e, pathfinder, and goblin with a fat ass

#

those are the three

#

oh and LANCER

spark helm
#

Blades in the dark is great

hybrid plover
spark helm
#

I love it

fair shale
#

LANCER is great

compact oracle
#

lancer's artist is great, never had a chance to play it thoug

calm shard
compact oracle
#

if he also writes the flavor stuff its peak

fair shale
spark helm
#

I just can't actually get games going with ppl ;_;

Geography and necessity

compact oracle
#

where do you put peak in kill 6 billion demons

fair shale
#

You either find Lancer from K6BD or you find K6BD from Lancer lmfao

spark helm
#

Lancer seems neat. I'll likely never get to play

fair shale
#

Its very good as a game

#

Fun to play

#

Fun to make mechs

calm shard
#

Lancer is like almost exactly

compact oracle
#

there's always more demand for dms than players

calm shard
#

"What if 5e was an actually good tabletop system?"

#

That's Lancer

#

and also it's mechs

fair shale
#

Yeah agreed tbh

#

The Lancer people very clearly play TTRPGs

hybrid plover
calm shard
#

Lancer also has the unique quirk of the DM having a vast array of unique and fun nightmares to inflict upon their players

#

Mirages my beloved

fair shale
#

I like that Lancer straight up tells DMs to counter their players so combat doesn't get swingy

hybrid plover
#

Being a pyromaniacal rogue in pf2e has been one of the experiences of all time.

calm shard
#

Yeah Lancer straight up encourages the DM to be vicious

fair shale
#

I really want to play an open hand rapier duellist in pf2e, something like Count Dooku

calm shard
#

Because the encounters are balanced around the NPCs being actually smart and using their tools appropriately

compact oracle
#

dms, if your players, kill them with hammers

hybrid plover
fair shale
hybrid plover
#

...and then they cast powerful pyromancies that also afflict a curse on themselves

calm shard
#

Of course the DM being encouraged to pull no punches

#

Also means the players have to work together

fair shale
#

Use their brains

#

At all

spark helm
# compact oracle there's always more demand for dms than players

I got too much on my plate to squeeze in my first dm experience. Plus, I'm more interested in dming for bitd or maybe pathfinder when I finally take time to better understand it.

Dnd too, sure, but that's easier to maybe make like a pickup session hub idea. I make up some scenarios and have ppl take bounties for jobs or whatever I come up with. Maybe something like a mob/resistance hideout and jobs to be taken there

fair shale
#

If you're coming from dnd it may be foreign

hybrid plover
#

Oracle archetype is fun as hell

fair shale
#

I want to play PF2e sometime ngl

#

I should look for groups for that

compact oracle
#

pf2e is very

spark helm
compact oracle
#

there's a lot of it

spark helm
#

I see

calm shard
compact oracle
#

i like pathfinder's spider race

hybrid plover
#

Pf2e is loaded

calm shard
#

animal instinct barbarian archetype for wolf jaws

compact oracle
#

they're cute, even though im terrified of spiders

calm shard
#

d10 unarmed weapon that can knock prone to sneak attack with

fair shale
#

Tbh I like PF2e Tieflings cause there's so much more to them than DnD tiefs

compact oracle
#

also they have rat people, so score 1 pathfinder

fair shale
#

Pathfinder has a metric fuckton of interesting player species choices

fair shale
calm shard
hybrid plover
calm shard
#

I played an Anadi for an Agents of Edgewatch campaign

#

Very cool race

compact oracle
fair shale
# calm shard real

I have no idea what this thing is but I bet it does something cool lmfao

calm shard
#

They're shapeshifting spider people

#

That are literally giant spiders who learned shapeshifting so they could be peaceful with other people

spark helm
compact oracle
#

ive never (successfully) played pf2e but i always wanted to make an unarmed combat spider

hybrid plover
#

And he also has a dagger that acts as a magical grapple hook

calm shard
hybrid plover
#

Very anime.

fair shale
#

So Anadi are spiders who transform into people but primarily want to chill

#

I just popped open PF2e wiki

calm shard
#

Yes

fair shale
hybrid plover
#

Funny thing is we actually don't run anything to do with the pf2e lore. Our DM's campaign is completely homemade.

compact oracle
fair shale
#

Tbf thats a giant spider

#

I think thats a reasonable reaction

spark helm
#

Eh I like spiders

fair shale
#

I do too, but not ones the size of whatever that is

tranquil ledge
#

Does anyone have any good shotgun builds?

hybrid plover
compact oracle
spark helm
compact oracle
#

im not a fan of real life spiders but this ones just aaaaw

calm shard
compact oracle
#

and its so colorful

spark helm
#

But

#

BUT

tranquil ledge
calm shard
#

you can actually befriend them irl if you keep feeding them and being nice

tranquil ledge
#

Whichever is the most fun or useful

fair shale
spark helm
#

I did find it funny my brain finally grasped the simple reality of 8 legs > 2 legs when scaled up further

#

That uh

hybrid plover
#

I want a tarantula for a pet tbh

spark helm
fair shale
#

The only issue i have with terrarium pets is like, you don't normally hang out with them

#

I've been debating an ant farm lately tho

spark helm
#

Can't have a mischief of rats. No snakes or spiders/scorpions

compact oracle
#

i wish spiders were smarter

#

actually no, i dont want that

#

can i take back my wish

fair shale
#

Like they're capable of so much so fast and they normally die within 3 years tops

spark helm
#

The lifespan is unfortunate. I love their curiosity and capacity of expression

fair shale
#

I love their hands

compact oracle
#

rats are adorable

#

but 3 years...

hybrid plover
#

The only reason I couldn't have a rat is solely because of the lifespan

compact oracle
#

why didnt they invent giant rats that live 20 years

hybrid plover
#

I'd get too attached and be demolished when they pass

fair shale
spark helm
compact oracle
#

i accept the consequences

fair shale
#

Your average is tbh like 2 years

compact oracle
#

if that means i get eaten by giant rats, thats okay

#

small animals living shorter lives is fucked up man

fair shale
#

Look at those grippers

rat-front-paws-bs-2021007-768x768-2873815963.jpg
compact oracle
#

they're already so fragile

#

woah, censor those

fair shale
#

I think my love of rats started with The Abyss tbh

calm shard
fair shale
#

I used to have rats when I was a teen

#

They'd sit in my hair while I played games

#

Good creatures

compact oracle
#

id love to have rats if i didnt have 7 cats

spark helm
#

I forgot which species has a longer lifespan in average but yeah. They have much much shorter lifespans. Idk how I'd navigate that grief. Lowkey haven't gotten over the family if cats I raised from childhood. Think about the mother a lot every now and again.

1st cat I rocked with on sight and main cat that had my back when it mattered. She was cool asf. Rip

fair shale
#

Tbh I cannot own animals atm

hybrid plover
#

You know. Somewhat unrelated.

I find it amusing that the times vet chat gets off topic, it never really gets brainrottedly so.

spark helm
#

Named my palico in monster hunter rise after her. Support cat that unironically saved me from desperate situations multiple times

Aw fuck. 😭

fair shale
#

Yeah, this is still related to tide games by virtue of being about rats

compact oracle
#

vet is the generic class so i guess we have generic off topic conversations

#

which means that zealot is the inherently horny class i guess

fair shale
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Zealchat gets wildly political lately

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Almost daily

calm shard
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zealot chat is for the crazies

spark helm
fair shale
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Its happening as much as horny posting

compact oracle
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zealot is inherently political because... uh... religion?

fair shale
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Tbf i drastically prefer off-topic conversations

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So I cannot blame them

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I can only ping the optimal plasma roll guy so many times in a day, yk?

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People in class chats are normally more sensible than OT chat or GenChat

spark helm
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More like some aren't too worried about those topics when that happens. But also people that say pretty goofy and closer to dangerous shit toss their hats in. That goes anywhere in a public official game discord fr.

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But for here it can happen more in zealot chat. I rarely show up in ogryn or arbites

fair shale
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I do not use Og chat

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Arb chat is normally dead

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Until I tell people not to take TG

spark helm
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Most I'll do is ask questions if I got em. Ogryn and arbites are free w classes to me so I don't got much to ask for there

fair shale
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Tbf if you ask whats good on arb the answer is "anything but TW"

hybrid plover
fair shale
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Nah ik

spark helm
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Can't speak to any unsavory experiences that stand out as any different than what I usually expect in official servers

fair shale
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Arb is tbh my favorite class to play

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They just feel good

spark helm
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Aye

hybrid plover
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Arbites really got both ends of keystone viability

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The best keystone and the worst keystone at the same time

fair shale
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Perfectly balanced

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I think it's funny TW is worse WS but EO is free passive Exe Stance in a way

hybrid plover
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I've honestly been vibing with shroudfield zealot more lately

compact oracle
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looking between zealot and arb keystones is so funny

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not because zealots keystones are weak but they're so... short and simple

fair shale
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I know jack and shit about zealot tbh

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Least favorite class to play

hybrid plover
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Inexorable Judgement is underrated af

compact oracle
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its much better now but before it used to have basically just one path you could tak

fair shale
compact oracle
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trve

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really? i see mostly martyrdom

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but i also love martyrdom

hybrid plover
fair shale
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I see way more IJ recs than Martydom

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I see more Martyr than Piety

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I see no Piety recs ever

hybrid plover
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All of the keystones are good in their own right

calm shard
compact oracle
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piety just feels like the default

calm shard
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ain't nobody running 7 wounds for the fuck of it

hybrid plover
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But IJ buffing base damage and also giving you better dodges puts it up there for me

compact oracle
fair shale
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If i see any bonus wound on a vet with plasma I'm just leaving that game tbh

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Like brother what are we doing here

narrow widget
compact oracle
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they should give martyrdom to every class

narrow widget
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can we get a martyrdom psyker build that aims to explode itself as much as possible

compact oracle
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including the no movement speed penalty from charging attacks

narrow widget
fair shale
narrow widget
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no

fair shale
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I thought you could use CW or something to repeatedly suicide bomb

compact oracle
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yknow what im going to make a bomb psyker right now

fair shale
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Tbh all I do when I play Psyker is FGS

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Which is also probably why I don't like zealot

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FGS feels better than zealots entire range of melees to me

compact oracle
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fgs is goated

hybrid plover
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Combat knife zealot fun

compact oracle
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i like relic blade now that they have the no movement speed penalty talent

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which i now want for psyker

hollow ibex
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ah yes

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psyker truly suffers

narrow widget
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waiter waiter more psyker buffs please

hybrid plover
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Just another sign that psyker needs to be buffed

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🗣️

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compact oracle
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psykers so weak, dont you know, they cant take any damage at all or fatshark comes to their house and kills them with hammers

fair shale
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I saw someone in psyker chat saying psyker is fine cause vet can pull the same numbers now and it's burstier

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And tbh I just muted the chat

hybrid plover
fair shale
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Great effort

hybrid plover
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5x more effort lmao

fair shale
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Whereas psyker is just

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Heho

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Fire Staff go brrrt

compact oracle
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the solution is to give every class flame staff

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ogryn gets a heavy flamer

hybrid plover
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Like it's not just psyker's ridiculous damage that's the issue.

The second someone just begins to get psyker, they can make it the most braindead easy class in the game.

fair shale
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Nah I agree

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The only thing you have to manage is blaze away stacks

hybrid plover
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Like

fair shale
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You don't have to manage ammo

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You're wildly tanky post tree changes

stuck gorge
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you only have to manage to not kill yourself

hybrid plover
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There is a skill floor. But the floor is pretty darn disproportionate to the ceiling.

narrow widget
hybrid plover
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It's why I actively try offmeta things with psyker way more now

fair shale
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Tbh I'm not even sure what off meta psyker is

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Gun psyker? Great

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Melee psyker? Great

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Staff psyker? Great

hybrid plover
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I was trying a bubble build with a lacerate knife and agri shotgun with all the damage reduction talents

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It still does so much damage with DD lmao

narrow widget
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how do we get to this point

hybrid plover
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And Warp Ghost just letting you have a near permanent 15%-20% extra damage because of JaD always keeping your peril high

fair shale
hybrid plover
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With Warp Rider

fair shale
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I remember launch psyker having literally infinite dodges