veteran-class

[thin stone]

Anyone?

[distant mural]

People are quick to blame everyone but themselves

[toxic reef]

it's a team game in the end

[thin stone]

@tall torrent

[distant mural]

Idk

No clue about pinned stuff

[thin stone]

Path made that guide, so I guess he knows best

[toxic reef]

the pinned guide has old tree

[distant mural]

Cant do much wrong tho atm.

Easy to build now

[toxic reef]

so that part is wrong

but the basic skills are prob fine

[hybrid plover]

tis a glorious day when veteran is able to actually decently compete with shriek purge psyker in h40

[distant mural]

Vet is my favorite special hunter now.

[hybrid plover]

i cant stop using the double barrel honestly

[toxic reef]

someone saw my exec stance vrak weapons specialist build and called me a cod player lol

[thin stone]

Pls send the build

🥹

Weapons + Tree

Curios I'll manage

[toxic reef]

uh I can try to recreate, not at pc atm

[thin stone]

Ohk

[toxic reef]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a01e43c1-508d-4e7a-992b-1eefd73b2197/

[thin stone]

Yo that's such a fire build

[toxic reef]

you can run most other melee weapons instead of tac axe

[thin stone]

I'll try it out

[toxic reef]

I might have covert operative on there as well instead of something else, idr

[thin stone]

What difficulties do you run this on?

[toxic reef]

I only run auric

[thin stone]

Havocs?

[tall torrent]

Working on steam guide

[thin stone]

Will it be updated?

[toxic reef]

haven't done havoc since the update

[thin stone]

Why's that?

[toxic reef]

deranks are a pain and the modifiers seemed ass

[tall torrent]

Yea I’m working on it lol

[toxic reef]

might get back in to it at some time, it's just a time commitment compared to just running auric maelstrom

[thin stone]

Can I help

[tall torrent]

Are u familiar with html

[thin stone]

Sir I'm a C/C++ and Assembly programmer

By profession and in my free time

[tall torrent]

Cool

[thin stone]

I can learn HTML and get back to you

[tall torrent]

No u don’t need to

[thin stone]

👀

Why dat

[tall torrent]

steam guide formatting is based on html

[thin stone]

Ok

[tall torrent]

honestly with that effort u might as well just use DT source code on github

[thin stone]

For what

[split grove]

do u run bromentum or sunder with cycler for pow sword

and whats the carapace combo?

[calm shard]

I prefer bromentum but sunder is a lot safer

plus it combos with serrated blade

for carapce with mk VI it's push attack, light, light

[willow prairie]

I've never tried sunder with serrated before

it does make sense

[tall torrent]

learning the game

[umbral scaffold]

is recon lasgun still the best dakka for weapon specialist build ?

[midnight wyvern]

I use slaughterer lol

[midnight wyvern]

and its push attack into light

light is almost an instant follow anyway

[calm shard]

it still does absolutely nothing different with the keystone just like every other dakka weapon does with WS yes

[tall torrent]

sunder is best for havoc
outside havoc the chocie doesn't matter that much even tho BM and sunder still reign above the rest

[grand perch]

It dakkas harder

For 10 seconds. That's not trivial

[steep flower]

It never was to begin with

[umbral scaffold]

What are you trying to say

[steep flower]

I did not try; i did it
It never was to begin with

[umbral scaffold]

It’s a saying dude, meaning there is more to what you have said

[steep flower]

If you read what WS does you’ll (hopefully) understand why using automatic weapons with it is generally not the best

[vivid silo]

Unless you are an ork

Then Weapon Specialist is da bomb

[calm shard]

WS is kinda bad with fully automatic weapons

Its main benefit to ranged weapons is one guaranteed crit every 3 melee kills

It does also provide 1% increased fire rate for every melee kill up to 10%

But that's not exactly a lot

[stiff glacier]

man the hp increases on enemies made my lasgun build more difficult to use

back to the drawing board

[mortal aspen]

2%

[calm shard]

oh

[grand perch]

20% fire rate is basically 20% extra DPS, nothing to sneeze at

[distant mural]

Wdyd if they land on the bottom?

Just roll again?

[grand perch]

Gork krumps you

[distant mural]

Instant ork heaven

[stoic thorn]

Russian rouletye

Depending on how many land on the bottom

If you live they're hits

If you die they miss

[distant mural]

I think orks can survive traumatic brain injury

Right?

[smoky sapphire]

ghazghkull's gentleman years

before the WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH took over

[turbid ibex]

They'd need a brain in the first place

[smoky sapphire]

they can regenerate

but idk you kind of need a brain to be able to put your brain back together

[distant mural]

Do orks not have a brain?

Im pretty sure they do no?

[turbid ibex]

They do

[sudden cedar]

They do. But Orks can survive traumatic brain injuries.

[turbid ibex]

Or at least a brain-adjacent organ

[sudden cedar]

They can survive a lot of punishment that would outright kill anyone else.

[torn night]

🫃

[charred salmon]

What's the difference between melee veteran and zealot? Like obviously skills and weapons but does zealot have more melee parks so he just does more dps or are they pretty comparable

[steep flower]

parks

Zealot is a car dealer

[willow prairie]

no vet is the one with more melee perks and do more dps

[charred salmon]

Well idk what's the difference. Both seems pretty good for melee. I assume zealot is better for straight up melee but who actually gets more damage boosting perks

And the shout on veteran is really good

[distant mural]

I think zealot has more crit perks

Wich amplifies your dmg

[willow prairie]

really just duellist increase your finesse damage

and it's less consistent than vet since vet one is activated all the time

[distant mural]

Idk apart from that

Zealot is faster i think

More attack speed

And movement

[willow prairie]

vet also have precision strike, marksman, reciprocity, desperado, skirmisher, agile, exploit weakness

he just have way more damage boosting skill

[distant mural]

What about zealot keystone that gives crit chance too no? And the charge

[steep flower]

Weakspot =/= Finesse; finesse is also crit dmg

[willow prairie]

desperado is finesse

[distant mural]

Dt dmg is confusing af i just play by FEEL

[willow prairie]

zealot only have duellist for finesse damage increase

marksman is flat 20% strength everytime you ult basically

exploit weakness 20% strength etc

precision is weakspot damage

[distant mural]

I allways thought zealot and psyker had the most crit nodes for some reason

[willow prairie]

zealot have more consistent crit

any weapon that you can use on both class will do more damage than on zealot

[distant mural]

My pc is broken im so bored

I wanna slay heretics

[willow prairie]

except chain weapon bur that because they need fotf

[distant mural]

So vet has most finesse and zealot more crit?

Whats the difference?

[willow prairie]

vet just straight up have more damage

[distant mural]

Isnt finesse also crit chance?

Im so confused

My knowledge is false

[steep flower]

Grievous wounds more like but thats still not great

[mint talon]

what is the meta for the power sword now? mark, perks, blessings and dump stat? haven't played for a while

[charred salmon]

Okay so how important is crits. What is a crit? Just a percentage chance to hit a crit and if it's a crit is does more damage? How much more damage? I kinda sleep on crit chance currently and I feel like maybe I shouldn't

[charred salmon]

So veteran is just better?

[charred salmon]

And he gets decent gun

[void dragon]

I'll not say it if you don't want to hear it

[formal ice]

Big obviously answer

[void dragon]

Indeed

[charred salmon]

So veteran is actually better and he can spec into gun as well?

[sharp epoch]

No, veteran is a lot squishier without golden toughness compared to zealot and less mobile

also doesnt have the free get out of jail card that zealot has

[willow prairie]

what does bro mean by this

[steep flower]

Boi does not know what Until Death is

[willow prairie]

yes i know

bruh

on other hand unless you're lobotomized voc just carry

[steep flower]

Ye; without it tho its still poor

[willow prairie]

you can run exe stance

for constant toughness regen

[sharp epoch]

I had a melee vet trying to play like an arb/zealot they just die way faster when their 15 second shout is not up

[willow prairie]

iw + cod is like 88% tdr because cod stack additively instead of multiplicative like other tdr talent

[sharp epoch]

you gotta play with your team instead of running into the middle of the pack as melee vet because less sustain

[willow prairie]

what is this?

auric?

[steep flower]

Just use CK and you have that on every build

[willow prairie]

yeah it not like it on top and extremely easy to get or something

[steep flower]

You need to see that IW works at & above 75% toughness; once that drops your survivability drops substantially - thats why zel has better survivability in a crowd than vet if we consider most used builds aka crit for zel

[willow prairie]

both don't run into horde instead of sticking into your team anyway

[steep flower]

Vet has better sustain vs chip dmg & ranged; zel is better in crowd situations

[willow prairie]

lol no

psword

[steep flower]

No CC kills you

[willow prairie]

the cc is literally killing every single thing before they can kill you

[steep flower]

All you can do is attack

[willow prairie]

vet literally have so much damage it not even funny

[steep flower]

Yet again with that wrong formula of ‚best CC is to kill the enemy’

[willow prairie]

yeah but it true on vet

because psword

[steep flower]

He does but you need to be mindful of his IW

[willow prairie]

you have to fuck up pretty bad as vet

[steep flower]

I don’t use PS for that exact reason; no CC

[hollow ibex]

i mean strong cleave + strong stagger

that's CC

[trim badger]

Just shout 4head

That resistance goes from only 25% of your toughness to "75"% of it

[proper solstice]

Power sword 6 is one of the meta now. You use it primarily for elite and boss damage. Perks: unyielding and carapace. Blessings: the two charges (forgot names), then pick one out of brutal momentum, sunder and slaughter. All three have their individual uses, and I have extended experiments on them. DM me if you want to discuss more. My choice is sunder atm. Dump stat: cleave target.

[void dragon]

Wait, the Psword has stagger that can stop rager's combos, what you mean?

[hollow ibex]

slaughterer is way behind sunder / brumentum and shouldn't be taken

[willow prairie]

slaughterer is way behind bromentum itself lol

[proper solstice]

Agree. In fact, my experience with ps6 specifically is that it plays like an assassin. Melee vet with PS6 has one of the highest burst damage in game atm, but vet is very squishy and has very poor sustain. So when I am playing it, I play it with discipline: when I have shout or yellow toughness from other sources, I go in elite horde with frontline for elite damage; once my yellow toughness is about to expire, I retreat or just fight strayed elite or kill specials (specials should be priority most of the time for vet imho).

[willow prairie]

tldr: bromentum kill more in 1 swing
sunder: essentially 400% cleave and cleave through carapace

[proper solstice]

It is not one better than the other. They have their individual uses, and you pick them based on what you want to get out of it.

[tame lodge]

Ok

So

What does Slaughterer bring

[steep flower]

Dmg, cleave & impact

[proper solstice]

Situational burst boss damage and elite damage.

[tame lodge]

Not struggling with any of that with Psword

[hollow ibex]

the boss damage is going to be gone in an instant

[willow prairie]

uh so bromentum

also sunder

[tame lodge]

[willow prairie]

because more cleave is more horde damage

[steep flower]

Bruhmentum does not add impact silly

[willow prairie]

psword stagger everything anyway

[tame lodge]

Not struggling with boss damage on Psword

[willow prairie]

no you don't need any impact

the only thing matter in this case is damage and cleave

[tame lodge]

Nor elites damage

[willow prairie]

which slaughterer bring nothing

[tame lodge]

[proper solstice]

Exactly, then you may pick others

[willow prairie]

compare to bromentum and sunder

[tame lodge]

So no real reason for slaughterer

[proper solstice]

As I said, you pick based on what you think you can get out of it

[hollow ibex]

i mean it's not like slaughterer is even good for boss damage

you're just gimping yourself

in every other situation

[willow prairie]

good for the 2 seconds that it activates

[hollow ibex]

exactly

[tame lodge]

So there is no real reason for slaughterer on Psword

It ain't going to struggle with bosses
Nor elites
Nor hordes

You just kill everything

[proper solstice]

I am not gonna defending it, as I am picking sunder ATM, but there are many good player who pick slaughter, and they have their reasons too.

[tame lodge]

So what are their reasons

[fair shale]

Are they in the room with us rn

[proper solstice]

I already said: situational boss damage and elite damage when chain killed

[tame lodge]

Which Psword doesn't really need

💀

[proper solstice]

Slaughter can reach very stable threshold for one combo crusher current meta. You do not need to even shout and crit

[tame lodge]

Or I can just

2 shot crushers

[hollow ibex]

slaught just isn't worth it rn

[tame lodge]

No need for slaughterer

[hollow ibex]

it's a very good blessing

but it's competign against brumentum and sunder lol

[willow prairie]

ah yes it good for 1 hypothetical situation

[hollow ibex]

sorry but not happening

[proper solstice]

I do not plan to argue with you, neither am I planning to defend it. This is an argument for washed up player. If you have made up your mind, go for it. However, if you want a rational discussion with concrete data, dm me. My conclusion atm is that picking sunder, and brutal momentum and slaughter have their individual uses. And this conclusion is not based on “feel” and “how i feel it in gameplay”, but rather data and numbers.

[fair shale]

Why cant you post those data and numbers here?

[proper solstice]

I am using mobile phone, hard to type. DM me so I can remember and go back and translate that long paragraph I have discussed with my other friends

[hollow ibex]

Except we have someone here that tests everything already, including by the numbers

And recommends brumentum and sunder over slaughterer

[proper solstice]

May I have the link? I want to cross reference. Thanks!

[proper solstice]

In fact, part of my discussion leans towards that. However, as humble as I am brought up to, I am aware that some extremely skilled vet players from other community use slaughter, and they must have their uses. I studied their recorded videos and made some observations. Data and concrete numbers are one thing and something I trust, but sometimes you just have to believe there are very good players who have very unique understanding about the game.

[hollow ibex]

HOTE guide in the pins, and he’s working on a much larger guide that is coming soon tm

[meager echo]

Lots of vets use slaughter ps6 in hong kong. I'm not sure why.
For me it's sub-optimal and inconsistent compared to sunder.
But I don't think it's that big of a deal since ps6 is so strong you can just pick any 2nd blessing (slaughter/ brutal momentum/ sunder) and be fine.

[willow prairie]

sea player spotted

[ember nest]

I have the feeling its a "not like the other vets" type of deal

[willow prairie]

"not like the other vets"

still run power cycler

checkmate liberals

[vital lance]

what r the new meta blessings for the power sword?

[fair shale]

Chinese players don't normally do things without purpose ime

[heavy rover]

power cycler with brutal momentum / sunder

[ember nest]

Then surely they have it written down somewhere that makes sense

🧍

Chinese communities arent some sort of mystical cult

[meager echo]

This is the main reason I'm not straight up saying slaughter is bad.
But I rarely find the situation that i need the extra dmg. And the guarantee cleave make ps6 way safer to use.

[proper solstice]

I agree.

[ember nest]

The only time they lock in is when doing farming shit and usually that is a marked increase over other stuff

[orchid hemlock]

Meta this meta that

[ember nest]

Not something ephemeral

See: warframe mission optimizations

[wheat gate]

Is Chainaxe okay?

[orchid hemlock]

Chain DEEZ

[fair shale]

Dont know where to start looking for that sort of thing

[hollow ibex]

12 is pretty good

[fair shale]

Cant read any form of mandarin either

[wheat gate]

I find it kind of ass at crowd clear

[orchid hemlock]

@tall torrent it's your time to shine

[ember nest]

Rip

Try billibilli translated comments I guess

Good luck

[hollow ibex]

12 is genuinely not bad

[meager echo]

Hongkong meta is very different than what people normally use in other sv.
They always run smoke on vet.
Gg on ogryn, rumbler is not a thing in hongkong.

[hollow ibex]

You need to run HT slaughter tho

[orchid hemlock]

Hong Kong meta hasn't seen my Vet 😈

[fair shale]

Smoke Vet makes sense to me

So does GG Og

[ember nest]

Whats gg og

Gunlug?

[fair shale]

Grenade Gauntlet

[ember nest]

Oh

Im like "huh"

[orchid hemlock]

GG means get good

[fair shale]

GG is pretty good at sniping specials

[ember nest]

Freaky aaaa whale

[ember nest]

How does it scale into havoc?

[meager echo]

They use gg to cc crusher pack

Vet and psyker deal armour dmg.

[fair shale]

Tbh I wouldn't know offhand

[meager echo]

They pretty much run havoc like mmo dungeon.
Zealot chorus, taunt ogryn, bubble psyker, smoke vet. After tree rework, zealot get replace by another ogryn/vet.
Almost no arbi in high havoc.

[orchid hemlock]

That sounds exactly like my server 💀

[sharp epoch]

NAE has a lot of arbs though

[meager echo]

The comp is so strong and consistent. You don't have to be good at the game to win.

[orchid hemlock]

Woah it's almost like if you stop trying to cook in the kitchen and let the pros teach you the recipe

It's soo much easier 😈🔥

[sharp epoch]

The comp is purely defensive, I feel like it would take longer than average with that comp

[dapper coyote]

What dump stat is for Csword?

[willow prairie]

yeah if you're like off meta there zero chance of you getting into a lobby lol

[orchid hemlock]

Pick another weapon is the dump stat

[dapper coyote]

Lmao

[meager echo]

It's fast. I have 21 mins run lostratum station with the old meta comp.
Chorus, taunt, smoke, bubble.

[sharp epoch]

dang

[meager echo]

If you rotate smoke and bubble you dont have to fight for cover.

Ds vet is never a thing even in auric hahaha.

[meager echo]

Pretty much it. They are very strict about it .

[proper solstice]

And which server is that 😆

[proper solstice]

But in duo H40, DS is easier for vet to kite though

[sharp epoch]

90% of vets in havoc run ds at least in my servers

It's diminished horde clear value but it makes them not die over and over

[meager echo]

I have no idea what to run in 2 mans run. But in 4 mans run if you need to kite, you doing something wrong. The only thing force you to repostion is tox bomb or fire grenade.

[sudden cedar]

Veterans with Shock Maul?

[willow prairie]

self harm

[proper solstice]

2-man H40: the most common vet build I have seen so far is DS and plasma

[ember nest]

People talking about duo is always funny as fuck to me

Its like modded vermintide runs

[proper solstice]

Yes!

[ember nest]

Just unnecessarily raising the bar for no reason

[proper solstice]

Not unnesessarily

[ember nest]

Sure have your fun but most ppl will be talking about normal ass h40 comp

[proper solstice]

But yes, make it hard

[sharp epoch]

Yeah you'll definitely not win a duo or solo with a PS, mobillity is too bad

[fair shale]

I am impressed by H40 true solo but idk how much of that meta id incorporate into a build that will have friends with it

[ember nest]

Its like "Yeah I know this is good...but in duos... "

[proper solstice]

Not definitely. I saw one duo make it with PS vet, but yes, ds vet is wayyy easier

[proper solstice]

They are different.

[fair shale]

Aye

[ember nest]

I would much rather wish that people focused on team worth for builds

Its always the "I can solo with this arbites" mf who goes off and gets fucked

[proper solstice]

I cannot agree with it more

[meager echo]

I think the way you approach problems in duo or solo run is different than 4 mans. I don't think duo or solo focus on engage enemies directly at all.

[proper solstice]

But it is a game. Gamers have different ways of playing it unfortunately

[ember nest]

It is. I won't call it uninteresting but its a different mentality.

[proper solstice]

Nah, 2 people directly in h40 is too tough. Even in 2 ppl clutch when 2 other ppl died, the remaining have to kite

[proper solstice]

And I enjoy both: duo auric malestrom, h40 and modded difficulty in vermintide

Like solving a puzzle to me

[meager echo]

The havoc meta in hong kong is design in a way that anyone can consistently win. It's a double edge sword. It's lower the skill floor but lack personal identity. Every lobbies are the same

[proper solstice]

Oh btw, forgot to add. I might resort to ds vet when in random queue h40, my team is very selfish and do not help one another

[sudden cedar]

That sounds like it is doomed to fail no matter what.

[proper solstice]

Right

Not gonna win, but at least I can die later hahas

[meager echo]

I don't like ds because it's force me to take frag or kite back during horde. Kiting out of bubble or smoke is recipe for disaster.

[wheat gate]

Do enemy captains count as unyielding enemies?

[sudden cedar]

Why is it so bad to kite enemies around?

[proper solstice]

Flak

If i am not wrong

[meager echo]

smoke is imporatnt because if you get fire grenade, you can help your team reposition right away.

[narrow frost]

what

I agree on the 1st part but not the 2nd

I read it like, you do not need to think about fighting enemies

was I wrong?

[meager echo]

Maybe i word it the wrong way. 4 mans you can just brute force the engagement. No way you can do that with 2 or 1.

[narrow frost]

Okay that makes sense

sorry for confusion

I read it like you were saying you just needed to speedrun to win in a duo or solo

But you are right on both cases

[meager echo]

I mean it as my sv meta is just to brute force through havoc. Bubble + smoke hold anywhere even in bad position.

[narrow frost]

you need to think differently in fights and map awareness, you cant stand still and hold everything back (bar certain builds in some situations)

[narrow frost]

All Flak

Twins are different

they are mauler like

cara head flak body unarmoured/cara limbs

[grizzled pebble]

I don't play havoc with bubble psyker it's too low damage unless they play bubble knight but nobody play that build.

[meager echo]

with bubble you enable 3 other players to deal dmg. With venting shriek only you deal optimal dmg.

[grizzled pebble]

Play with 2 psykers and both run no bubble.

Double the damage.

[proper solstice]

I agree somewhat, but sometimes it is also about the experience of other players, especially when I premade. Bubble makes my friends more comfortable to play.

[trim badger]

Do you need to do all that?

Just Dodge and push once a while

A horde shouldn't be taking area from you

[vital lance]

is competetive urge any good?

[fair shale]

Not ime

[grizzled pebble]

I am psyker main and I tried bubble a lot at the start of this season. I do no damage, teammates die anyway then it's just gg. With shriek team die anyway but I do a lot of damage and can just clutch.

[hollow ibex]

Ok but hard to afford

[vital lance]

sounds like its not

what if i take it instead of the +25 toughness

[fair shale]

Much more consistent and reliable than CU ime

[vital lance]

is grenadier worth taking for double kraks?

[proper solstice]

On a second thought, while I agree with you, not every psyker player is on your level. I have played with many venting shriek psyker on random h40, and to be honest, many of them do not achieve the expected performance. I guess while venting shriek does do damage, sometimes resorting to a more team-oriented psyker build with bubble may not be a bad idea to some psyker player.

[grizzled pebble]

Kind of true. The majority of ppl on party finder play bubble. I even ask them to go shriek yet they refuse to do so.

And i offer to go bubble.

[meager echo]

If you take ps6, everything in front of you is perma stun. No need to do anything fancy.

[trim badger]

Kinda at the cost of good mobility but yeah ps is a lot better for hordes

[meager echo]

What do you need mobility for, why would you run away. Is the dodge distance not good enough for you?

[torn night]

🫃

[marsh condor]

So let me get something straight rq.

Veteran's tactical reload talent doesn't affect the shotgun's specials, right?

[hollow ibex]

It does

[marsh condor]

Just want to check.

[hollow ibex]

It’s not super noticeable though tbh

[muted echo]

whats a good melee for hellbore? i can deal with basically anything so something with good chaff control sounds nice but i wasnt feeling it with the falchion

[toxic reef]

psword maybe

[hollow ibex]

Taxe Mk VII is a common ranged build melee

It doesn’t need much investment to perform

I actually use falch though

[stable socket]

speaking from the other perspective it's also lot easier to win with a mediocre bubble psyker than it is to win with a mediocre shriek psyker because you can't really miss bubble (unless they consistently put it in cursed locations)

and the psyker is more likely to stay alive vs shooters which is always a plus because it means they can put some soulblaze on stuff

[trim badger]

I like mk6 knife to run alongside helbore

DS too but I feel better with knife for that

Basically anything that gives you space / prevents you from being hit

[tall torrent]

usually no

[trim badger]

I love taking all 4 nade talents...

With mah kraks

[muted echo]

smokes are really good too

gives my team breathing room while im taking out the ranged ones

[proper solstice]

Contrary to the other response you get, my take is yes. You take the talent for +1 grenade primarily. Double grenade is a plus.

On the other hand, I choose not to take the talent when using smoke.

[heavy rover]

double kraks are a nice bonus, but I get grenadier for the extra grenade

[muted echo]

what other guns ya bois use for high havoc? hellbore tired me fingy

recon lasgun feels like shooting blanks up there

[toxic reef]

plasma is basic bitch

[stable socket]

are you on PC? there are mods for helbore passive charge and/or FullAuto, which make helbore and inf-las/laspistol much less clunky respectively

[toxic reef]

yeah they're nice to get

[stable socket]

i am a big laspistol believer as long as you're ok with hitting weakspots being more important than usual

plasma and bolter are probably the most common in high havoc, plasma for special deletion with quicker swap/good cleave and bolter having slower swap but much higher boss burst damage

[muted echo]

got the full auto but still gets old

trying out plasma now

never were into slow rof before, recon lasgun was me baby

but now after helbore and hav 30 i think its time for a change

[toxic reef]

don't charge the plasma

that's how everyone uses it

[muted echo]

just spam click?

[toxic reef]

yes

[muted echo]

whats the blessings?

[toxic reef]

gets hot, rising heat

and vent the heat with special if you haven't before

if you run weapons specialist and always prepared you rarely need to reload

[muted echo]

thermal res dump stat should be fine ye?

[tall torrent]

no

[toxic reef]

charge rate

since you never charge it

[muted echo]

huh

ok

[tall torrent]

it's a super specific distribution for minmax

[muted echo]

plasma autism, is this a whole guide?

[tall torrent]

yea I'm working on it

[toxic reef]

I wouldn't bother for the first time using it

[tall torrent]

if ur broke go thermal dump

[muted echo]

so close yet so far

[tall torrent]

plasma is the most RNG weapon to perfect roll in the game

[muted echo]

nvm this is really close

[tall torrent]

nah this is worse off

[muted echo]

damn 5% thermal that affective?

well outta dockets so ill just go with 60 charge rate

[stable socket]

it lets you hit the 8 shot breakpoint, i think

but the fire rate difference between 70/70 charge rate/thermal resistance and 60 charge rate/80 thermal resistance is probably not that big?

[tall torrent]

even a single 1% below the red line is not getting that 8 shot

that red line is "as low as it can go"

[muted echo]

consecrated 2 charge rate plasmas and both got basically same rolls, omnissiah be praised

do i go with flak unyield or carapace?

since center mass

flak?

[tall torrent]

unarmored + flak

also if ur broke, dump thermal, not charge rate

[muted echo]

oh i may have sacrificed the thermal 60 whoops, oh well a few maelstroms will get me back

[hollow ibex]

I’ve got a bunch of money but I refuse to spend it on a boring ass one note gun

[proper solstice]

Does unarmored reach certain breakpoints?

[hybrid plover]

double barrel

double barrel when used effectively actually rivals purg shriek psyker in damage

it's nuts how good it is.

and it pretty much is a filler for shredders

so you can run kraks or smokes

[tall torrent]

yea

dreg gunner & tox bomber (havoc max)

[hybrid plover]

speaking of, what perks do you guys prefer on knife?

[proper solstice]

Sounds good. So unarmored reduces number of shots needed from 2 to 1 kinda?

[hybrid plover]

yeah

[toxic reef]

I tried your(?) shovel double barrel build btw, when are you using shotty btw

[hybrid plover]

make sure you get at least 2 kills with your melee out

that guarantees a crit

quickly pull out and fire into a horde

switch back, rinse and repeat

[toxic reef]

ah ok so hordes, gotcha

[hybrid plover]

well, yesnt

because you also wanna fire in the direction where there could be priority targets

since manstopper lets you ignore hit mass for the most part except for carapace

should have clarified that

[toxic reef]

right, priority hordes

[hybrid plover]

double barrel is very good because the sheer amount of collateral it does makes it extremely good at mixed hordes

[tall torrent]

depends on buffs and crit-weakspot
but yes

[hybrid plover]

probably the best ranged in the game for that particular purpose

*on vet

[mortal aspen]

it's also manly and based

and none of this soy reloading

[hybrid plover]

also, if you feel shovel ain't pulling the weight you want it to, knife, dueling sword, combat axe, and tac axe are options i've used that also compliment it really well

dueling sword is

boring though

so i don't recommend it

[toxic reef]

nah idm shovel, I have tac axe on another similar build so it's fun to switch it up a bit

[hybrid plover]

if anything, i think knife is probably the best solely because of the mobility allowing you to close distances to take advantage of the double barrel fully. same logic with tac axe but it's not as mobile

and serrated flesh allotting you 10 bleed stacks on crit is kinda bonkers

[muted echo]

@tall torrent peter the horse is here

[hybrid plover]

congratulations, you beat darktide

[muted echo]

see yall on darkertide

[sharp epoch]

I've played with a DB vet, they do well against mixed hordes but they dont really do the job of sniping specialist or gunners well which vet is usually good at

And other classes deal with mixed hordes better with just their melee and can snipe specialists with ranged, or just be psyker and do both

[hybrid plover]

Then u haven't played with a good double barrel vet

Double barrel is actually pretty capable at taking out specialists if they're playing it right.

[sharp epoch]

Ehh it's still like 2-3 shots with crit with the minimum pellet count

and I have played with a good one

[hollow ibex]

Idk any crit pellet landing should get the kill on sniper

I’ve constantly used DB to snipe specialists

[hybrid plover]

Also I dunno about other classes dealing with mixed hordes better with their melee. Even something like arbitrator hasn't really held weight to that. Maybe melee psyker but that's not even a fair comparison because they're just abrasively overpowered

[sharp epoch]

Havoc has different breakpoints

[hybrid plover]

Still done it even in havoc 40

The health increase isn't that significant when you consider flechette in the mix

[sharp epoch]

I mean ogryn just staggers everything so he kills mixed horde of ragers/poxers/maulers/crushers easily without taking hits

Arb also has that stagger with the block PAs

[hybrid plover]

I mean that just means they're able to do it more safely. But if we're talking like

Pure killing potential?

The fact that dB vet can rival a purge psyker holds serious weight

Now if the ogryn was running something like

[sharp epoch]

Pure killing potential just grab a glugger ogryn or something or even arb with exe mk 3 shottie just clears mixed hordes

[hybrid plover]

Rumbler

Then ya but that's not even melee then

[sharp epoch]

Your comparing DB vet which isn't just melee either

[hybrid plover]

You're the one who mentioned classes doing it better with melee

[sharp epoch]

I'm saying the other classes handle mixed hordes fine without a ranged weapon

DB vet you kinda have to throw in the ranged weapon to be fine

[hybrid plover]

And I think that's honestly fine because it really isn't even that ammo use heavy anyway

I can't remember the last time I've run that setup and actually felt pressed for ammo

[sharp epoch]

I just feel like it doesn't really have a niche, cause clearly psyker just outclasses them in mulching mixed hordes and doesn't need ammo

And then they cant kill specialists half as well with just DB either

Or ranged elites

[hybrid plover]

Man idk, I've handled all of those just fine with db

Unless it's like, rotten garden or something but that's honestly just that particular set of modifiers being pure ass to begin with

[sudden cedar]

I like that combination

[sharp epoch]

Yeah I was playing rotten garden with a DB vet yesterday we kept losing though half the time the DB vet ran off like an arb and died

[hybrid plover]

...yeah that doesn't sound like they were really playing well to begin with

[sharp epoch]

He was actually the next best team member 😭

[hybrid plover]

Wait

Is that...

[narrow frost]

thats epic

epic coal

[hybrid plover]

LMAO

OH NO

[sharp epoch]

its someone?

[hybrid plover]

What a small world this is

Yeah that might be someone in this server

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/caught-in-4k-you-exposed-gif-21379673

[hybrid plover]

Question

[sharp epoch]

oh the vet? the psyker was like 2k lvl

[hybrid plover]

Did they run shovel

[sharp epoch]

DB shovel

[hybrid plover]

Oh no

Caught in 4k UHD

That's actually hilarious

[sharp epoch]

I feel like he was playing like an arb, but vet really can't handle being alone in the backline cause he just gets melted easily once your below half toughness because iron will + close order drill are gone

[hybrid plover]

Also.

Something to consider

What was the psyker using?

[sharp epoch]

Inferno bubble

typical psyker build

[hybrid plover]

So the psyker is using the inferno staff, which is well known for being busted due to infinite cleave.

And the double barrel vet, is doing double their damage

Like. I don't think I have to really say much about that.

[sharp epoch]

I mean I play with my friend who uses voidblast, and we usually have about equal damage so I think that psyker was just bad even though he was 2k

[hybrid plover]

I honestly don't even know how you can not do a lot of damage with inferno psyker

Even for worse players

[sharp epoch]

Yeah idk either he might be one of those ones who spam m1 instead of actually charging it

I was playing with this macro psyker it was so busted

[hybrid plover]

Cringe

I hate macro psykers honestly

[sharp epoch]

He was stabbing like 3x as fast as normal only first attack on deimos and doing a shitton of damage

also he'd swap to inferno m1 in miliseconds and spam that to perma stagger mixed hordes

[hybrid plover]

...i think I've played with this person before

[sharp epoch]

Dorfus?

[hybrid plover]

Were they also really annoyingly tox-

Hmm

I don't think that was their name actually

[sharp epoch]

Nah he was like gg

[hybrid plover]

Okay probably not the same person

Questionable still but at least the guy wasn't toxic in your case

[sharp epoch]

I mean I feel like that's borderline cheating, but it's allowed for some reaosn

[hybrid plover]

I feel it's really dependent on the seed with that one as to if it's going to be like, bearable or just a slog.

[sharp epoch]

it was "Dorfan" actually

he broke 3mil damage in 40 mins

[hybrid plover]

Cuz I did a rotten garden with dB vet yesterday and it was tough but not nearly as bad the one I was talking about then other day

[hybrid plover]

But it also just didn't feel like there was nearly as much carapace

[hybrid plover]

Yeah that's just outrageous

[stable socket]

i've played with dorfan pretty recently as well, he does a lot of damage (ok a lot is kind of an understatement) but in our run he ran ahead without waiting for us and ledged himself twice

[hybrid plover]

Main character syndrome

Dude knows they're gonna do a lot of damage so they just play like crap not realizing that staff can make them their own worst enemy

[stable socket]

mega dps can get you through a lot of stuff - that much i know for sure from watching him - but the almighty barrel cannot be beaten that way

[tall torrent]

lolol

[hollow ibex]

I don’t think I’ve actually run into anyone on this server in the wild

[hybrid plover]

i've run into like

four people now?

[tall torrent]

I have queued into mr unc like 3 times before randomly

all while he was streaming too

[hybrid plover]

i know i ran into ainz and gale recently

[tall torrent]

[hybrid plover]

i was talking about a bugged spawn on a game i had and turns out noble cactus was in that game too

[tall torrent]

(That was my krak)

[hybrid plover]

okay maybe three

[hybrid plover]

beautiful

yeah i've been starting to like kraks so much more now

[tall torrent]

krak value good

it's big impact for team too

[hollow ibex]

It’s hard to pick between kraks and frags now

[tall torrent]

throwing 2 frags doesn't mean that much for ur team but seeing a krak blow up tells ur team immediately what to do

[hollow ibex]

Genuinely difficult

[hybrid plover]

also puts in work with tinkerer https://gyazo.com/d173de2211ee07d02c9366e23937224e

begone, foul bonbon

[tall torrent]

it's giving vet a lot more team-impact that they normally don't get

also lowkey actually think exe better than voc

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/14565585276275651342/54A988B55506C581625FC1A14DFE215DF542619B/

this is just ridiculous

[hybrid plover]

exe is better if you already have a source of golden toughness

like in that case

[tall torrent]

no I didn't have gold while tanking the gunners

gold actually wouldn't be as tanky in that case

[hybrid plover]

i mean like, for the team as a whole

[tall torrent]

I can tank 8 gunners head on and have full toughness

get combo'd by 2 ragers at once and not lose hp

lolol

[hybrid plover]

i honestly want to use it more but i've been running with teams that don't have a means for providing gold so i gotta be that safety net 😔

cuz overheads are so much more of a problem in havoc

[hollow ibex]

I think I’ve run VOC like what

Three times this year

[hybrid plover]

maybe i should have run exe with ainz and gale on those games, now that i think of it

but, alas

[tall torrent]

exe stance basically makes u zealot pro max plus

stun immune
constant toughness gain/s

and u have better melee than zealot

[hybrid plover]

people still rlly saying vet isn't a melee class even now

propaganda

baseless propaganda

[tall torrent]

vet is like highest melee dmg class lol

[tall torrent]

idk I feel taunt is safety net enough

[hybrid plover]

i haven't been playing with a lot of taunt ogryns, surprisingly enough

[tall torrent]

go again + bruiser is pretty bonkers cdr

taunting more is just better than taunting +dmg in majority cases anyway

[hybrid plover]

also, that scoreboard earlier, we lost that because chorus zealot went awol at the very last stretch of carnival and it snowballed from there

and for some reason they also thought gate was a good hold point for some reason

[tall torrent]

I think voc and taunt are the best "lynchpin" ults atm

tho I do think taunt outclasses voc most of the time

[hybrid plover]

taunt does, but an ogryn that isn't aware of their surroundings can actually make taunt an issue

i've been overheaded with no cue before because a taunt ogryn dodged towards me and made the overhead hit me before

it's really cool

[tall torrent]

I run this for ogryn atm

pickaxe + rumbler

[hybrid plover]

i wonder

TBTA or Counterfire for DB

I've been running TBTA

[tall torrent]

TBTA just usually better

[calm shard]

double barrel vet is a much more immediate source of infinite cleave

While it technically does less damage overall than stacked soulblaze, the burst damage nature of the double barrel frequently outright kills targets it hits. This leaves less enemies for the staffker to stack their DoT off of and snowball their damage from

Also the staff psyker could have been garbage at the game

[hybrid plover]

ye, which is why i think double barrel does actually have a niche to fulfill

but it requires a particular finesse to actually fulfill said niche as opposed to inferno

vet has always been a gambler's class to me in terms of really high highs and really low lows and db is a perfect example of that

[safe jacinth]

man i really like the power falchion

[hybrid plover]

i wish it was better

truly

because it is a cool feeling weapon

[safe jacinth]

hey at least it’s more usable than the reglar power sword even if it’s worse

[hybrid plover]

also correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think it's technically infinite like inferno since i think carapace still stops the pellets

the cleave value is absurd but i don't think it just outright ignores hit mass

[calm shard]

it doesn't go through carapace but that is literally it

it will go through every single enemy in its path except for carapace

and like, walls

https://imgur.com/a/KXTEpmY

[zenith carbon]

what da hell

is it only the braced fire?

or that blessing with cleave on crit

[hybrid plover]

it's manstopper too

[calm shard]

it is an amount of cleave that's for sure

[proper solstice]

I think you meant Dorfan?

[sharp epoch]

Yeah I corrected it under when I found the SS

[sonic kayak]

Oh shit I know that guy

[proper solstice]

This is actually doable but server ping dependent.

[sonic kayak]

He's funny

I've played with him a few times

[sharp epoch]

I mean it was obviously a macro seeing as he had first hit qq macro too

[sonic kayak]

Honestly not too bad, over-reliant on his macros though, folds when he's surrounded

He's a good sport though

[sharp epoch]

He premade with a taunt ogryn with shield so that didn't happen, and yeah he wasn't toxic or anything

[proper solstice]

My bad. Was reading from top and was not there when you mentioned it

[proper solstice]

The guy when I met him was a fine person. Just the macro. In case you are not aware of, he was probably the one invented the machine gun electic staff a couple of patches ago.

[sonic kayak]

Oh I know him

[gilded rock]

The chainaxes cartoonishly twirling in the air

[charred kraken]

Fatshark we want this shotgun (i found this post on reddit)

[hollow ibex]

Realistically it’d be a slow firing shotgun because it’s pump action

[charred kraken]

this post wasn't by me

[hollow ibex]

Yeah ik just saying

[safe jacinth]

slow fire high damage like how the scabs use em

[hollow ibex]

Based on the shotgunners in the game

[hollow ibex]

I’m guessing they’d be pump action combat shotguns with drum mags

Could be fun

Not sure if it’d be that good

[safe jacinth]

ye

[proper otter]

is power sword kinda buttcheeks or am i just bad

wat do you guys run on it

[narrow frost]

Sunder + Cycle

[hollow ibex]

It’s the strongest melee in the game

But needs some getting used to

[cunning haven]

its very fun when your team is ahead but its difficult if you on the backfoot. i suggest practicing with the creature spawner mod. im very good at handling Bulwarks now but need practice against ragers, crushers and chaos spawn

there is a video on yt titled "power sword deep dive" which is outdated but has lots of useful insight

[proper otter]

yeah i was struggling getting through big groups alone

perhaps i will view the video

[hollow ibex]

The number one thing that will improve your power sword play is pushing more

[orchid hemlock]

It's by far the best melee weapon in the entire game atm

[hollow ibex]

Especially the charge, block cancel and push combo

Very safe

[proper otter]

which mark is better

[hollow ibex]

VI

and it’s not even close

[proper otter]

ok word

[orchid hemlock]

Oh wait I take it all back

The CS exists 😈

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[tall torrent]

chainsword lowkey alr
weakness vs carapace dmg still

[vital lance]

are there really just 3 power sword skins

[cunning haven]

unless you fighting ragers. the push and stab doesnt stagger them like regular swings oddly enough

is it still worth chaging your power sword when attacking bubbles after the talent rework? i saw some clips of psword users just swinging at bubbles without charging the sword. maybe it depend on your talent tree if u reach the damage cap?

ill still do so if im surrounded. just not sure if it is more efficient to light spam uncharged at a bubble

[proper solstice]

Is there a number to the cap value?

[cunning haven]

i would think so. i dont really know how it works

[hollow ibex]

I don’t bother

[hollow ibex]

Yah push won’t do shit against ragers

You just have to fall back and charge

Then spam lights to stagger them

[cunning haven]

i know you want lots of light damage attacks like chainsword and shock maul specials for bubble then u want high burst damage like thunder hammer when shield is down

[cunning haven]

i really need to practice this. already struggled with rager packs and now i dropped stamina and block efficiency for toughness

[hollow ibex]

Just gotta time dodge slides

Or use blitz or ult if needed

[distant plaza]

how do i block cancel with the power sword?
hit special, then tap block, tap attack x3?

[cunning haven]

yeah, i spam this whenever possible. but cuz i use it as a crutch when i dont have nades or VoC i get deleted

[gritty mural]

rippergun for humans lol

[cunning haven]

i usually do this. but even blocking first and hitting special also works i think. or even at the same time

you can do the push as it activates for the special combo stab which you should do for single target

you will know u did it right when you dont even hear the "activation"

[hollow ibex]

Activate special and block immediately

Only works on mk6

[proper solstice]

Actually, you may want to wait by 0.2 sec (test it yourself the best time) before blocking. Its way smooth this way

[hybrid plover]

GOD I LOVE DOUBLE BARREL

AARRRRGGHHGH

[sonic kayak]

can confirm

loves double barrel

[hollow ibex]

I don’t have the reflexes to time shit like this

[proper solstice]

No, that is not what I meant. The key idea is "not immediately". There is a very brief hiatus in between your activation and block. Try it yourself.

Especially when doing the push attack combo

[cunning haven]

just takes some practice and it will become muscle memory

[distant plaza]

🙏 thank you, i'll practice block cancelling with the mk vi power sword some time tomorrow

[hybrid plover]

maybe it's just me

but i just cannot vibe with power sword

[hollow ibex]

Idk I just go with vibes, don’t think it makes a material difference

[hollow ibex]

Nah def not just you. Why do you think people kept asking FS to rework PS into a relic blade heat system

[hybrid plover]

like dont get me wrong

everytime i use it

it does

DAMAGE

but i just cannot get over how clunky it is to use

maybe i'm just too spoiled by vet's more mobile options

especially since the tree just kinda turns anything into a decently powerful melee

[steel barn]

That's why I like the Power Falchion tho, since it's got the Relic Blade heat system and also feels good to use

[hybrid plover]

i mean

true

but it isn't actually uh

very good honestly

[hollow ibex]

It does feel good to use even if it kinda sucks

[hybrid plover]

it's a weapon that feels better than it actually is

unfortunately

and it's not like, by a small margin either

[steel barn]

What's wrong with it?

I just kinda use it and assume it's good because it feels good tbh

[hybrid plover]

Subpar unyielding and carapace, really low stagger values, blessing pool isn't the greatest, the moveset is actually kind of complicated for what it is

and just by the numbers, it just doesn't do a lot of damage. at least as much as a power weapon should

like if you use the power sword comparatively

even if power sword is clunky

it is a world of difference

[hollow ibex]

The biggest offense is how fucking dogshit it is when unpowered

[hybrid plover]

that too

[hollow ibex]

Like nearly psword levels of bad

[hybrid plover]

relic blade is actually decently good when unpowered

[hollow ibex]

Except you also have way more downtime

[steel barn]

Ngl idc about movesets for weapons tbh, I juse spam L Mouse until I need to hit an armoured enemy then spam Special Attack or Heavy

[hybrid plover]

pfalchion just feels like a wet noodle

[hollow ibex]

Its like FS completely ignored the lessons of relic blade

[steel barn]

Oh yeah, I have noticed that tbh

[willow prairie]

💀

[hollow ibex]

Tbf single target damage is actually pretty good. Powered of course

[hybrid plover]

it's good with the targets

that everything else is also good at

it doesn't really stand out in that regard

[tall torrent]

it's not "subpar" unyielding and carapace
it's avg ish unyielding and slightly above avg carapace
however the stagger is really bad
and it doesn't atk fast & responsively enough
and the unpowered atks are pretty bad

[hybrid plover]

and the fact that i need it powered to have that performance

[hybrid plover]

is it above avg for cara?

[steel barn]

Yeah, unpowered it is pretty bad tbh, feels like you're just slapping enemies

Powered it feels good tho

[tall torrent]

yea it's like 2.6~3.1k for carapace

avg is like 2.5k ish

[hybrid plover]

i dont even know how you're getting those numbers

[tall torrent]

it can go above 3.2k but not reliably, crit RNG

[hybrid plover]

because the times i've used it, it just never does that kind of damage to cara

[tall torrent]

hit crusher with sword

[hybrid plover]

i do hit crusher

with sword

poke and all

[hollow ibex]

Ehhhh

[hybrid plover]

maybe i'm just setting up something wrong

[hollow ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1422251612688355411/50CA021.MP4?ex=68f11688&is=68efc508&hm=f1a63bd7723cbcd78126b0bb9b9b18210383f0f8473fd5b446cba4df1fbd4395&

[tall torrent]

tac axe is 1.8~2k vs carapace considering crit RNG

which is actually pretty good

given it's a lower dmg weapon

falchion doesn't lead above avg much tho

[hollow ibex]

DPS?

[hybrid plover]

ah, i see

[tall torrent]

closest comparison is rashad

but rashad crit hits WAY harder and it can stagger crusher

[hollow ibex]

This is juiced as fuck Tbf, but yeah the single target is actually not bad

[hybrid plover]

now i see how it's doing that

[tall torrent]

falchion's stagger is rly bad

[hollow ibex]

It’s… everything else

[hybrid plover]

but you have to beef the actual fuck out of it to get there

it's funny because that's what i run

[tall torrent]

2.6~3.1k doesn't need dmg juicing

[hybrid plover]

i guess to ask

what's the perk setup here too?

[tall torrent]

unyielding carapace

cuz the other perks don't change it much

[hybrid plover]

admittedly i've been running flak unyielding so maybe that's my mistake

[tall torrent]

I think most melee weapons atm go into smth like flak/unyielding + carapace

only exceptions I note are combat axe and tac axe liking unarmored a lot

so they do unarmored + carapace instead

[heady island]

if im using the combat blade with a shredder frag set up is it better to take mercy killer or flesh tearer or?

[hybrid plover]

funny enough, i've been running cara unarmored on knife too

[hybrid plover]

honestly

[tall torrent]

flesh tearer

[hybrid plover]

ye

especially if you're running serrated

[heady island]

the bleed is better then the extra dmg?

[tall torrent]

yea if u run serrated with knife (u kinda should)
1 melee crit is 10 bleed stacks on everything u hit

just kills a lot of things much faster

[hybrid plover]

10 is kind of a massive amount and can very often guarantee kills in one hit on things you want it to

it's why i've taken off flak on my knife actually

[heady island]

ic tbh idk how bleed works in the game i just thought of it as a little bonus

so my other perk uncanny probably isnt the play

[tall torrent]

Uncanny is absurdly overpowered

[hybrid plover]

uncanny is what will make that bleed do a lot of damage to crushers

[heady island]

i figured smack down would be better to consisntely proc bleed?

oh ok

[hybrid plover]

smack down is awful

dont use it

[heady island]

does everything apply to bleed?

[hybrid plover]

if you wanna use a blessing for crit, riposte is your blessing

[hybrid plover]

how do you mean?

[steel barn]

One of my friends hates uncanny strikes but idk why

I don't use it tho because idk what's good or bad about it

[hybrid plover]

admittedly, i can see why given it is genuinely an extremely powerful blessing

it takes what makes crushers an issue and basically nullifies it entirely

with a very easy condition to proc it

[heady island]

like rending, strength,power? the effects. ive never really looked indepth of the how the system works i just make builds and spam aurics

[hybrid plover]

rending and strength both affect DoTs

100% rending basically makes your DoTs immune to ADMs

[heady island]

im assuming shreder grende bleed benefit from the weapon im holding too when it explodes?

[hybrid plover]

yes

[tall torrent]

strength makes ur attacks' damage, stagger and cleave better, used to be called power (still is, internally)
rending makes ur attacks' innate damage modifier vs armor types better (only applies to maniac, unyielding, flak and carapace)

[hybrid plover]

meaning if you throw shredders, hit a weak spot with a knife a few times, the bleed from the shredders will take that rending value

[heady island]

neat

also really how strong is bleed? like 1 stack is 1% health or whats the math?

[hybrid plover]

it's not really percentage based on the enemy's health

uh

path probably has the chart for it

but the damage doesn't scale linearly

[heady island]

log scale?

[hybrid plover]

i'm not sure of the actual equation for it myself

but yeah

so the more stacks you have, the more damage those stacks are actually doing as well

this is why soulblaze is abrasively overpowered btw :^)

[hollow ibex]

Courtesy of path

[tall torrent]

it kinda isn't

it looks like this

but the formula actually doesn't use log or ln

[hybrid plover]

as to understanding why its usually better to have flesh over mercy btw

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-car-steal-hubcap-run-gif-14032396

[hybrid plover]

bleed essentially ignores cleave distribution

so you get a good deal of both worlds

single target and horde clear

[heady island]

yeah im playing rn thisn is ridiculous, im left clicking most things to death

[tall torrent]

DOT calculation formula is:
(stack_count / max_stacks) * (stack_count / max_stacks) * (3 - 2 * (stack_count / max_stacks)) * power_distribution * armor_damage_modifier

[hybrid plover]

ppl will say knife does not have horde clear

those people have never tried serrated flesh tearer knife

it may not be the best horde clear

but it is very serviceable for what it is

and how mobile you are with knife so you can just dance circles around a lot of stuff

[heady island]

so should i be doing alot of light spams into things and more heavies for med health things?

[hybrid plover]

if mk3, light spam for horde, and heavys for single target

if mk6, it's a little more complicated than that

basically, it has a more varied moveset that requires some mixing of lights and heavies (along with its ridiculously good push attack)

but if you get mk6 down, it's generally much better

[steel barn]

Should I not just be spamming light attacks at hordes and heavy attacks against heavy enemies?

[hybrid plover]

depends on the mk

but yeah while it's possible to do just that for mk6

it's not the most optimal way to use it

[steel barn]

Idk, any weapon I use, that's how I play

light spam vs horde and then heavy against like crushers and stuff

With the maul I like to occassionally heavy attack light targets because it's funny

[hybrid plover]

pretty much, every weapon's moveset has its own sequence of moves for different purposes

for example

if you were doing light spam for horde clear and heavy spam for single target with something like

mk1 shovel

you're outright doing it wrong

because it's actually the complete opposite

you want to do light spam for single target and heavy spam for horde clear

well, light spam with the occasional push attack in the mix for single target since it does particularly more damage than anything else in its moveset

part of why this game's combat is so good is because movesets aren't just clear cut like that

there's a learning curve to each melee weapon in this game

[steel barn]

Oh right

Would probably make me better at the game if I learned their movesets tbh

Shovel is a weird one tbh but I kinda like that it's the opposite

[hybrid plover]

the shovels (except mk3) have probably the most clear cut movesets in the game

very simple weapons

[heady island]

tbh ive been doing like slide into two heavies cause i like their horizontal slash, into like a couple lights till their dead, and horde clear has been heavy 1-2 light spam till im overwhelmed repeat

i think h3 is like a downward stab so i should be doing that but it feels like the commitment to speed is not there for me

[hybrid plover]

this is where your special attack comes in handy

[heady island]

the stupid puch? i use that to bully trappers lol

ogryn mindset

[hybrid plover]

well, the light after that

is basically heavy 3

[steel barn]

Makes sense tbh, it literally is a shovel, idk how you'd make that more complex really

[hybrid plover]

you'd think that

but then there's mk3 shovel

that moveset is uh

not very beginner friendly lol

[steel barn]

What's up with it?

[hybrid plover]

it has an overhead strikedown that's weirdly placed in its attack sequences

[orchid hemlock]

I don't think any of the shovels "simple"

But they aren't hard either

[hybrid plover]

mk1 is really simple tbh

mk7 is a bit more complicated but not really that much more

mk3 is just

an odd one

[steel barn]

Oh ew, that's really weird, yeah

[orchid hemlock]

mk1 I don't think is simple

People completely forget about the alt attack and the push attack overhead start a lot

[hybrid plover]

that honestly means it is pretty simple because you genuinely don't even need those moves to use mk1 shovel

dont get me wrong

[orchid hemlock]

No you definitely do

The alt attack is actually one of the strongest in the game

And the push attack is how you headshot Cara enemies

[hybrid plover]

it's better to actually use them

[orchid hemlock]

No unironically if you don't use the push attack, then the combos are objectively worse than the mk7

And the alt attack combo is how you permanently stun mutants and crushers

[hybrid plover]

i'm not talking about how strong the weapon is

you're right about that

[orchid hemlock]

It's probably the best shovel imo because of how the combos weave perfectly into any situation

But you need to know how to use it

[hybrid plover]

and it's one of the easier weapons to know how to use. and it's also easier because even without those particular moves, it's still very much usable.

it's a "easy to use, hard to master" kind of deal

[heady island]

do these combo moveset keep in mind applying as much bleed as possible for best ttk? or just as if no bleed and its a bonus?

[hybrid plover]

it's the ideal best combo strings

regardless of if you have bleed or not

bleed does give more value to your lights though

since, faster the attacks, the quicker you build up to 16 stacks

but i wouldn't say you want to just use lights either

[hollow ibex]

it's super easy

you take serrated blade

and light spam

[hybrid plover]

because mk6 heavies 1 and 2 have higher cleave values

[hybrid plover]

you want to try and use knife in a way where it both can build bleed quickly and to as many targets as you can

[hollow ibex]

yeah mk1 shovel lights are terrible

[orchid hemlock]

yeah single target on both the mk1 and mk7 are not that the easiest combos in the world

[hybrid plover]

i mean, i really don't think push attack light light is a complicated combo

just have to remember to actually use the push attack

is all

and nowadays, now that serrated is a really easy pick, you really can just light spam for single target and let the bleed kinda do the work. even if it's kind of a cheesy way to use it

[orchid hemlock]

it's not the push attack that is complicated, it's weaving in the SP to CC things like ragers or to reset the light combo

[willow prairie]

it not complicated but whatever

[hybrid plover]

yeah like, compared to other movesets in this game

even with that, it's still not really complicated

mind you

we're talking compared to every other weapon which some have some really weird ass attack chains that are actually genuinely tricky to replicate

[orchid hemlock]

im not sure how you define 'complicated" then

because then 99% of the weapons in the game don't have "complicated" movesets either

ive seen some crazy Bruce Lee type shit with the shovel on some cracked Vets

just CC entire hordes of crushers

[hybrid plover]

yes, i've been that vet before

[orchid hemlock]

i doubt it if you never used the SP on the mk1 shovel b4?

[hybrid plover]

...why are you implying i haven't?

[orchid hemlock]

because you said they are not "needed"

i dont take shovel anymore because no boss damage on havocs is a big nono 😔

I wish that "stagger" in this game was like a scaling stat that eventually staggers everything in the game, instead of havbing to hit breakpoints for bosses 😔

[hybrid plover]

because if you have a means of crowd control already, you can straight up never use the sp and you'll be fine

Now if we're talking HAVOC

maybe that's a different story