veteran-class

[fair shale]

Double barrel got me feeling like Doom Guy tbh

Thing is like, stupendously good

[hybrid plover]

One of my favorites for havocs

[toxic reef]

I've been having fun with vraks autogun as well

[hybrid plover]

Which is sad because people unironically think you're trolling in havoc when you bring it

When I'm out here ready to put the inferno psyker to shame

[fair shale]

Idk

Havoc enforces a lack of creativity

I just host my own lobbies

[toxic reef]

if the deranks were 1.0 it'd be more fine

[fair shale]

I still think its insane you can derank the entire way to 40 but you can't derank at 40

[manic umbra]

DB has WS reload node tax though

[fair shale]

"Tax"

You say that like WS is inherently bad or something

[hybrid plover]

I would not call that a tax node

That node is absurdly strong for some weapons

[fair shale]

Me either, WS pretty fuckin good ime

[manic umbra]

obvs not WS…

[hybrid plover]

Double barrel being one of them

[manic umbra]

I mean the reload node

Vs other weapons that don’t need it

[hybrid plover]

I wouldn't call it a tax node because what always prepared tends to do with those weapons makes them significantly stronger

Without it, they're usable.

[fair shale]

A tax node is like, an objectively bad node i wouldn't take if I didn't literally require the thing under it imo

[hybrid plover]

It's not necessary to have it. But by big E is it nice to have for the ones that really like having it.

[fair shale]

You dont even take anything under the reload node iirc

You're running it entirely by choice

So it's inherently not a tax imo

[hybrid plover]

If a tax is what I need to basically be doom guy with a double barrel

That is a tax I am willing to pay honestly

[fair shale]

Yeah lol

[manic umbra]

What would yall swap for it, toughness node?

[tepid otter]

Is that for DB?

[fair shale]

Yeah, for DB

Lemme go reread some of these rq

[tepid otter]

I havent tried the weap yet since the update, ngl

[fair shale]

Unironically yeah probably the 25 toughness

[hybrid plover]

Probably wanna take one motion instead of Longshot

Honestly the 25 toughness ye

Or depending on your melee

You could get away with taking off bring it down too if you're not comfy with thatn

[fair shale]

I would also motion for one motion

[hybrid plover]

Since you're using kraks

[manic umbra]

hmm fair enough

[fair shale]

Thats Tac Awareness

[manic umbra]

Won’t be missing any havoc breakpoints without long shot?

[fair shale]

They dont have bring it down

[fair shale]

Its a shotgun mate

[hybrid plover]

Yeah they do

The nodes below are lit

[fair shale]

Oh fuck yeah, I missed that lol

[manic umbra]

Yeah I have bring it down

[fair shale]

Honestly

Id swap toughness still

You already have one 25 node

[manic umbra]

Fair enough

[hybrid plover]

If you run flechette, that should be a non concern

Which you should always do that with ws db

[manic umbra]

mobility dump as usual?

[hybrid plover]

Yes.

[manic umbra]

Or reload speed cuz of always prepared

[slow sky]

It doesnt matter much

[tall torrent]

it kinda is

cuz most weapons don't need it

[manic umbra]

What’s your take on current S-tier hybrid WS build ranged weapons besides plasma (and DB for that matter)

[real lintel]

I am struggling to get Make Every Shot Count, I hate this penance so much xD

[slow sky]

Its not a tax node cuz its not blocking the way to anything

[hybrid plover]

Melee or ranged

[slow sky]

You can just take it or not

[manic umbra]

Ranged

[hybrid plover]

Not even double barrel really needs it.

But it is incredibly nice to have it.

[slow sky]

But it is the #1 gun for it

But my point was thats not what a tax node is

Theres no tax involved

You dont have to take it even if you dont want to to get to something else

You can just
Decide to take something else and thats that

[manic umbra]

What’s the perks for DB

[calm shard]

I think good ol' flak+maniacs

Also something I noticed about DB in havoc specifically is that Moebian 21st actually makes it stronger by not dying to the initial damage of the shotgun shot

and instead bleeding to death

because if they bleed to death when you have your melee out it counts as a melee kill

so you get another guaranteed crit

[hybrid plover]

Not necessarily that it counts as a melee kill but that it qualifies as a kill to proc ranged specialist since it was technically dying when you have your melee out. So it'll proc specialist but not agile engagement

[steel veldt]

you aren't taking always prepared?

And I guess close quarters killzone is not as good as the left one? Huh.

[hybrid plover]

Close quarters killzone is not really that good anymore

Tac awareness nerf indirectly nerfed the red nodes

[steel veldt]

I see

that's a shame

:(

[calm shard]

man if only they did something crazy like give infiltrate an insanely short cooldown to solidify it as the "oops all damage" ability

Or at least make it so that the +1 charge upgrade didn't nerf the cooldown for no reason

Fury of The Faithful doesn't have an increased cooldown for its extra charge

[hollow ibex]

too much to ask for lol

[manic umbra]

What’s the build for bolt pistol these days

Deadly accurate + surgical?

what’s our perks also

[formal ice]

The one blessing that gives your bolt a 25% increase damage on stunned targets

And either bleed or that one blessing that makes explosion of guts

[hollow ibex]

surgical DA is a trap on bistol tbh

[split grove]

Dont take surgical

Aiming is for noobs

[tame lodge]

Take surgical da

With mmf

Hit only heads

Die irl if you hit body

[fading grove]

Loose cannon female best girl

[void dragon]

Man, an entire week of being rejected from H25 ish missions finally got accepted on a H24, dont let bubble shields fool you, the real gods are walls

[sharp epoch]

want to join my 40?

[void dragon]

sorry, its late here, will have to be a next time, now just relaxing before going bed

[sharp epoch]

np i know if you just win one 40 people wont really reject you since they see you completed one

[dark surge]

from my experience people will still reject you

[void dragon]

one day will make it all the way to it, only managed to do a H38 before and it seems that Havoc now has hands

[dark surge]

unless you have like

• true survivor
• havoc exemplar
• hazard hunter frame
• havoc vanguard

[narrow frost]

Reject or nothing

[void dragon]

funny, most of my builds have themed frames and no title

[dark surge]

you're going to want to dress up because 99% of the time people will decide if they want you in your party through the frames and title

and also true level

[void dragon]

absolute BS, if that's their metric im proud of being a reject darnit

[dark surge]

welcome to havoc

where every party is gatekeeping

[charred salmon]

what is the best types of weapon to use with execution stance?

[grand perch]

you could have 2000+ levels, pox breaker title and cleared 40 and could still get rejected

[calm shard]

Laspistol, Bolter, Helbore, Infantry Autogun

[hollow ibex]

anything

[surreal rune]

it works well with the helbore, the autoguns

[hollow ibex]

anything goes well with exec stance

[calm shard]

Also combat shotguns

[surreal rune]

most ranged on vet

[calm shard]

Honestly just any gun that isn't dogshit like the brauto

[void dragon]

can confirm that Laspistol critter is crazy good on Exe stance

[hollow ibex]

power sword, rashad, knife, dsword, falchion, etc.

all super good with ES

[hollow ibex]

sorry but ES goes fucking hard with ES

[grand perch]

brauto is very viable with exec

[void dragon]

MAN why you had to remindme that im sad that Brautos are garbo?

[grand perch]

really you can use anything with exec....except for maybe double barrel? maybe? its still more accuracy and damage for it

[hollow ibex]

DB still kicks ass with ES

so long as you take WS lol

[grand perch]

its something i ought to try at some point

but i love me infiltrate DB

[calm shard]

DB WS exe is approaching meme build territory

[grand perch]

nah i can see that working

[surreal rune]

executioner stance with marksman focus is one of the few ways to meet the breakpoints of the vigilant autoguns

it makes it decent but not much better than other options

[calm shard]

imagine using "breakpoints" instead of the Columnus vigilant and just overkilling everything

[hollow ibex]

melee ES build

[calm shard]

I feel like if I was going to do that

I would probably use Zarona or Kantrael combat shotgun instead

Since they're more reliable at range than double barrel, and still have manstopper+flechette

[void dragon]

what is this infiltrate build? i need it because i only have one Infil build and need to fix that

[midnight wyvern]

[surreal rune]

true

[midnight wyvern]

just magdump the horde with a bolter

??

ya'll are thinking too hard

[void dragon]

hey, i might be high on copium but that has nothing to do with it!

[midnight wyvern]

why getting rejected from H25 lol

[calm shard]

the vast majority of the absolute dogshit players who want to be carried are slumming it in 25-30 havocs

they haven't quite figured out that they're the reason that havoc is so hard, and make it everyone elses problem

[midnight wyvern]

[meager echo]

Don't let people tell you, you can't hoard all ammo bags.
If anything, opinion of random strangers on the internet is not worth your time

[midnight wyvern]

40 still has those players they're just less common I guess lol

[sharp epoch]

wow the power falchion is bad

[grand perch]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9f3affad-8731-4610-93e3-d34bd85dc0ef/the-huntman-stealth-and-destroy

[void dragon]

glorious, thanks

[void dragon]

it really needs a lil more damage when active, it deals less than Rashad on averange

[sharp epoch]

i finally got around to upgrading it and it has pretty wacky movesets and just doesnt last that long and does little damage

[void dragon]

the inversed is also true, i have far more challenging games of Aurics sometimes because players are abysmal, opposed to some Havocs where players know the concept of not rushing a fight

[void dragon]

iirc the mk1 push attack light loop has ok damage, but the weapon itself definelly needs more help to put numbers

[hollow ibex]

yeah it's not great

the only thing that it does fairly well is single target damage while charged

[sharp epoch]

even compared to relic blade it just feels worse

[meager echo]

The most concern thing about falchion is the vast majority of players asking heat mechanic to be put on powersword.

[void dragon]

we have Relic blade that is broken and now we also have Relic blade(-1)

[void dragon]

i wanted that for the other Psword mk that is not useful

[charred salmon]

is recon las gun good?

[grand perch]

the true fun of power falchion is seeing redditors argue why its better than powersword, and stating its better at dealing with "anything" than psword

[inland umbra]

yeah

[void dragon]

its efficient, good ammo econ, can get the job done for a specialist hunter

[charred salmon]

is it good with execution stance?

[sharp epoch]

most of them probably are at auric still or less

[meager echo]

I guess they prefer ease of use than other quality.

[inland umbra]

I believe so, but focus target and the las gunner(?) talent that removes ammo cost from headshots does just as well

[charred salmon]

which is the best mk of recon las gun

[inland umbra]

I think both are really good, it depends on if you want more damage slower fire rate or more fire rate less damage

though you'd get better more sure information asking someone else

[hollow ibex]

XII: Brrrrt memes-- strong, but bit of a noob magnet. Excels at being an infernus stick (stack burn, then immediately stop). Slower reload, and nerfs move speed while you're firing.
VIc: Best all-rounder, preferred choice of sweats. Doesn't have the ergonomics debuffs that XII has while still maintaining a good rate of fire.
XIV: Niche, generally used with Deadshot memes, which can be strong, but build-specific.

Make sure to run dumdum instead of HH. HH on recon doesn't scale anywhere near as well as dumdum since dumdum gives crazy damage buffs to both your gun AND your burn stacks just for playing the game.

recon las copypasta

[static radish]

explosive build real?

or not anymore?

[grand perch]

thats not how shock trooper works, and focus target doesnt really impact ammo economy with shock trooper

unless its in combination with deadshot and its stamina regen subnode

shock trooper makes it so crits dont cost ammo, headshots aren t crits, but weakspot hits

[inland umbra]

yeah there's a reason why I should never be trusted to divulge information about darktide 😭

I need to reread the talent tree

[grand perch]

dont worry, i made the same mistake when shock troooper was introduced

[hollow ibex]

it might be lying to you anyway

[inland umbra]

I'm still trying and struggling to be able to run something like havoc 25

[inland umbra]

tzeench infecting the talent trees

[midnight wyvern]

just kill the enemy and don't die

[inland umbra]

you see I've been doing that

[midnight wyvern]

clearly not

[inland umbra]

well

one part of it

[midnight wyvern]

if you never die you can't lose

[inland umbra]

how do I not die

[midnight wyvern]

by staying alive

[hollow ibex]

don't get hit

[inland umbra]

and how do I do both things

[midnight wyvern]

make the enemy HP 0

and stay alive

[inland umbra]

but I can't make the enemy HP 0 without getting hit

and eventually I will dir

[midnight wyvern]

you can

just do it

and then its done

[inland umbra]

got it

[midnight wyvern]

but really, just work on game sense

helps with everything else

pay attention to where shit is coming from, watch out for stuff spawning behind you

hear the silent dogs, trappers, bursters, crushers

its really simple

getting a team you can play matches with more than a single time can help alot

then you learn how they play and what you need to do in that group

cuz you know what they'll cover

[inland umbra]

I was paying as much attention as possible both to front and back, saw a plague ogryn before it jumped us and everything, but in the end (even though I'm sure I was at fault)

[midnight wyvern]

both in what they're playing and how they're playing

[inland umbra]

my team was also really ineffective

[midnight wyvern]

where you from?

[inland umbra]

middle east

[midnight wyvern]

am down to run a few matches if you're not from mars

cuz it'd just depend on ping

[midnight wyvern]

over the pond

[inland umbra]

and I'm unfortunately in university rn...

[inland umbra]

the pond with the guns on the other side?

[midnight wyvern]

no

[inland umbra]

I have a lot of hours spent in NA from playing with friends from there

[midnight wyvern]

I am not NA

[midnight wyvern]

very large pond

[inland umbra]

..antarctica?

[midnight wyvern]

yep

[inland umbra]

how is it over there?

[midnight wyvern]

hot

[inland umbra]

climate change 💔

as you can see I'm geographically gifted

living in and eating sand does that to the mind

[midnight wyvern]

well, if you remember to, @ me or message me when you're able and wanting to to do havoc, am down to see how ping plays

🤝

[marble ocean]

What's Power fashion dump stat? Mobility or heat?

[hollow ibex]

mobility

[marble ocean]

Ty

[midnight wyvern]

damage

[tame lodge]

The weapon itself

[midnight wyvern]

[torn moat]

Any good guides for Exec Stance? I'm curious how it plays after the rework

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/saving-private-ryan-kar98k-дэниел-джексон-m1903a4-daniel-jackson-gif-2675418343833204773

[void dragon]

should the dueling swords keep a good % of their current damage and instead make their dodge distance be quite small? lean into the "A true noble dont run from a duel" and make them need to use their new parry

[grand perch]

it could at least go to normal dodge range instead of dodge overriding to a higher value

[void dragon]

mayabe even lower, if we agree to keep its damage 100% of current OPness

[meager echo]

Bro using gaze and still manage to blow himself up

[midnight wyvern]

2200 damage taken as a psyker

💀

[void dragon]

260k damage is also crazy

[dapper coyote]

@slow sky is your build compatible with combat shotguns?

[midnight wyvern]

EK staff suffers

pls buff

[slow sky]

yes but it is infinitely worse

[dapper coyote]

Lmao ok

[slow sky]

its cuz of the spread

and the raw damage per shot

[dapper coyote]

Ah i see

[slow sky]

the zarona shotgun is the most comparable one but youd need to load a special shell every single time you hotswap

[dapper coyote]

I want something with a little of precision but can do some crowd control

[void dragon]

Making it so the secondary target takes more damage would be nice, instead of tickling it

Also would dare to say he didn't even used the staff, he got into melee with overconfidence and died stupidly

[inland canopy]

shotgun also still pepperspray on carapace and unyielding

[slow sky]

combat shotguns are not on unyielding

they are quite good against it

[inland canopy]

crazy

[umbral scaffold]

why would you use anything but helbore

and a shovel

[slow sky]

cuz db exists

[midnight wyvern]

Bolter go doof doof doof doof doof

[inland canopy]

helbore on havoc reminds you your precision need work

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-screams-then-dies-gif-22962780

nurgle when he hears a bolter

[torn moat]

Anyone have a deadshot recon build?

[tame lodge]

Shovel is mid

[calm shard]

I actually do this on a WS build as a standin for double barrel when I feel like having better range/boss damage

You just take tactical reload instead of the WS reload node and it plays otherwise identically

Just worse into maulers specifically

[slow sky]

thats what taking all 3 grenade talents are for tho

[calm shard]

precisely

[ivory trail]

You know what is better than a grenade? 3 grenade!

[calm shard]

can't have problems with maulers if you just throw krak grenades at them

[grand perch]

ilas IX deadshot memes actually plays a lot better now that you have easier access to grenade nodes

[slow sky]

i meant bosses

[calm shard]

oh

can't have problems with bosses if you just throw krak grenades at them

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/fist-of-the-north-star-hokuto-no-ken-hey-as-long-as-it-works-as-long-as-it-works-winging-it-gif-5037582307183355084

[tame lodge]

Needs more muffled sounds

[willow prairie]

man™

leveling up in vt2 is hell

[meager echo]

and red weapon farming

unless you have friends who exploit deed run

[dapper coyote]

Ok the shotgun is F U N

Hehe SLUG YE SKULL

[queen obsidian]

Gang im still confused about what different bolt gun type even do

[dapper coyote]

Dmg or speed or something

[queen obsidian]

Idk

1 looks like higher dmg

On stats

But when i tried it

[dapper coyote]

Haven't touch bolty

[queen obsidian]

The supposed lower dmg bolt pistol does 620 while the higher does 560

[dapper coyote]

But variants are basically different weights on the guns. (its different with melee fluff)

Heavy is more dmg but less speed (often)

Light is vice versa

The tan is heavy, the blue is light

The green is medium

[queen obsidian]

Yeah

The other variant is like faster firerate

[dapper coyote]

That's the light one

Often heavy is dogshit

[queen obsidian]

Yeah

[dapper coyote]

Stick to medium-light

[queen obsidian]

Slow firerate just for 40 more dmg than the regular

[dapper coyote]

Unless its melee, then ask the zealot mains

[queen obsidian]

The light one is spammable though

The bolt pistol is better for new variants

[ivory trail]

New bolt gun have lower damage and ammo. Come with explosion range.

[queen obsidian]

The bolt rifle is slower for the new variants

I like the new bolt pistol variant

[willow prairie]

I need a sugar daddy that will carry me because I can't be asses to find tome

[queen obsidian]

It's faster reload and fast fire rate

At cost of lower damage and mag size

Of 7 instead of 8

[willow prairie]

also solo bot is ass and qp are ass

[slow sky]

Old boltgun has higher headshot damage, lower body shot damage, higher firerate and mag/ammo size

[willow prairie]

also being straight up better

[slow sky]

New has lower headshot damage, higher body damage, lower firerate, lower mag/ammo count, but the explosion doesnt require a direct hit on an enemy to trigger, and does decent damage now

[meager echo]

my friend power lv me with the deed run.
It's a bug that you make deed run into a normal run. And you don't lose the deed scroll after the run.
He just speed run the bell map.

[queen obsidian]

That's nice

[slow sky]

The difference in headshot/body damage evens out to being the same as long as you hit the head

[willow prairie]

yeah I don't have someone to do that

[queen obsidian]

For bolt pistol especially

[willow prairie]

im rawdogging it

I got like saltz and kruber max so far

for the bot

[queen obsidian]

Oh yeah and i feel like chainswords aren't as good as chain axe to be honest

The handling feels weird

[slow sky]

With the blessing choices you have for the new ones, bolter is better at killing power, Bolt pistol is better at explosion range

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/washing-hands-fire-sparks-grinder-gif-16535412

[willow prairie]

It doesn't help that i can't really play on controller

but the deck is the only thing i can use now

[midnight wyvern]

ain't no way there was 118 enemies there

[dapper coyote]

Max level is 30 right? (for talent tree)

[midnight wyvern]

yes

any level higher than that is from a mod

[midnight wyvern]

bots in VT2 are actually good

[willow prairie]

them edging me the revive then walk away chasing hook rat:

[midnight wyvern]

you going down:

just live

[willow prairie]

they're better than dt bot for sure

[midnight wyvern]

they also use your setups and classes you set them to

[willow prairie]

it doesn't help that i can't play on mnk atm

controller skill issue

[midnight wyvern]

warrior priest revive bubble

[willow prairie]

I just use whc because he that goated

also duelling sword

[midnight wyvern]

the good DS

yeah WHC is poggies

[willow prairie]

I have like merc krubot and whc

leveling up bardin for ib

[midnight wyvern]

I got back into it recently and been playing WHC, Sister of thorne and Unchained

Unchained my beloved

[willow prairie]

holy shit he kinda painful to use since hitting head is kinda hard

[midnight wyvern]

been wanting to play Slayer bardin but friend has been playing the Short

[willow prairie]

the struggle of a short king

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/short-warhammer-thorgrim-gif-13932078525086181170

[olive halo]

wasn't there a talent that made vet immune to suppression? or am I forgetting?

[willow prairie]

yeah it baked in now

[midnight wyvern]

its now part of the class

[olive halo]

ah fr? thanks

[midnight wyvern]

[olive halo]

trying to make a MMF build but damn it seems like a waste

[midnight wyvern]

depends on the weapon

[olive halo]

the loss of middle/right side trees is painful

[slow sky]

How so

[midnight wyvern]

just don't lose them

they're right there

[olive halo]

like being unable to take bring them down, skirmisher,

that sort of stuff

you lose some of them

[midnight wyvern]

you can take bring the down

or skirmisher

just probably not both

[olive halo]

yeah thats what I said

[midnight wyvern]

a comprimise contains loss man

[olive halo]

I took skirmisher

[slow sky]

Theres so much ranged damage tho

[midnight wyvern]

you take MMF to boost a weapon to doing something different than it can do with other trees

its why you'd like want to use it with hellbore or Vigilant autos

because they fuck with MMF

[olive halo]

yeah I heard vigilant was good with mmf

I tried the helbore but I think Id rather not use mmf if I had to use helbore

[midnight wyvern]

your loss

[meager echo]

my friend only play troll hammer torpedo engineer. He spam the shit out of that gun

[midnight wyvern]

my friend is dead new so he hasn't found it yet

yet

[willow prairie]

the biggest problem with vt2 progression for me is like

you have to level up 5 time for meaningful change

[midnight wyvern]

just wait until level 30

[willow prairie]

i just vastly prefer st talent tree

[midnight wyvern]

you get to do 5 levels for nothing!

[olive halo]

im in the middle of a round so I dont really have time to type and explain, but Ill be back afterwards

[willow prairie]

no you need 35 to max out

[olive halo]

you might have the solution to my problems

[willow prairie]

yeah i already maxed out 2 character

[meager echo]

and you can't play same class.
It suck when the only high level character is not available in lobby

[willow prairie]

i just do solo

because randos are ass

my bot kill special faster

[midnight wyvern]

MMF MkIV hellbore 2 shots crushers

1 shots everything else

[olive halo]

2 shots??? it felt like 4 shots

[meager echo]

bot is insance in vt2. I've never seen iron breaker bot die.

[midnight wyvern]

imagine if you could have a shield tauntgryn bot in DT

[willow prairie]

imagine

[meager echo]

or survivalist aura bot.

[midnight wyvern]

they alr have it

just a nerfed version, though im pretty sure they stack

they have the starting one, level 0 lookin

[willow prairie]

all bot being level 1 is so ass

[meager echo]

In vt2 the bot can even carry healing or grimoire for you.

I dont know why bot in dt are so useless

[midnight wyvern]

yeah, I dunno why that isn't in DT

not only are they useless in combat they can't do anything

lol

how we go from VT bots to DT bots is

[willow prairie]

they're different team from what i heard

[meager echo]

...

[willow prairie]

doesn't help with how ass the bots are though

[mortal aspen]

I had an ib bot kite a cw patrol on Cata for several minutes

[tepid otter]

making use of his height

[mortal aspen]

Sadly thats about the only thing it can do

[meager echo]

To be fair the other bot cant do dmg as well. Just pick the tanky one.

[midnight wyvern]

Grail knight:

[mortal aspen]

UC bot can do good damage

my issue is bots can't revive well and their Ai breaks vs half the specials

[willow prairie]

yeah when he doesn't ult at a storm vermin

(tide)

[midnight wyvern]

is the storm vermin dead?

🫡

[willow prairie]

also he tend to miss the double second stab for boss damage

[mortal aspen]

bots will blow all their ults at once on 1 special

[meager echo]

I love the enemies design. But why our characters look so ugly in vt2

[willow prairie]

he also chase special alot because no ranged weapon

[midnight wyvern]

mine were being fine the other day, only thing of note is the random ass Warrior priest ults I got but

[mortal aspen]

Vt2 chars are way better than dt

looks wise

[meager echo]

What you mean better, have you seen kruber beardless

[midnight wyvern]

dialogue too

lol

[meager echo]

[mortal aspen]

well that goes without saying

[midnight wyvern]

it doesn't

I just said it

[mortal aspen]

have you heard the tale of Pogger's Bridge?

[meager echo]

I would love to play vt2, but the population in my region is too low.

Finding game is rough.

[midnight wyvern]

just have friends

I already bought the game for 3 of them, it was a whole 2 dollars

[elder vessel]

darktide player be helpful challenge (impossible)

[midnight wyvern]

womp

[dark surge]

you should see bald kerillian

[meager echo]

My friend ask me if he can stay range only in vt2...

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-meme-aardman-the-pirates-pirate-gif-26563702

[dark surge]

he can go play waystalker

but hes gonna have to press m1 on the melee eventually

[mortal aspen]

Bounty hunter, Sienna, ways talker can all be pure ranged

[elder vessel]

sienna can

[meager echo]

Bro he die with hand maiden...

[midnight wyvern]

unchained only ranged

[elder vessel]

everyone else is gonna run outta ammo eventually

[dark surge]

especially pyro

[midnight wyvern]

[elder vessel]

Disgusting

Repellent

[mortal aspen]

beam goes brr

[dark surge]

die

[meager echo]

He said vt2 is too much for him.

[midnight wyvern]

uncultured

[mortal aspen]

no?

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-cat-catlaughing-laughingcat-point-gif-7577620470218150413

[mortal aspen]

bh and ws have infinite ammo

[elder vessel]

bro sees 60% melee power and says "shoot gun"

[midnight wyvern]

gun is just ranged melee

[elder vessel]

If you have a spear

[olive halo]

engineer in question

[mortal aspen]

you never tried UC beam have you?

[elder vessel]

and you make your spear longer

how long until your spear is ranged combat

[midnight wyvern]

if have spear, why not throw spear

simply a difference in effort

[elder vessel]

I haven't, because I still have my dignity

[willow prairie]

huntsman also

[olive halo]

hey, my game is over so im back

[elder vessel]

I charge my overcharge into the red, then I forget ranged weapons even exist as I go ham in melee

[mortal aspen]

Hagbane WS

[dark surge]

never

[midnight wyvern]

weapon specialist

[olive halo]

so the issue I had with the helbore was its just super slow

[calm shard]

I'd like to mention that Handmaiden gets the moonfire bow too

[olive halo]

long swap animation

[mortal aspen]

Bounty Hunter basically has Weapon spec

[olive halo]

takes time to charge

[mortal aspen]

and it's super fun

[midnight wyvern]

use weight of fire

[olive halo]

drives me insane when im used to swapping, popping a gunner, then back to melee

[midnight wyvern]

is the moonfire still dog?

[mortal aspen]

yeah, but you shoot three times and wait for recharge.

[dark surge]

its ok

[mortal aspen]

moonbow is a sidearm only

[dark surge]

just take a fucking longbow

[meager echo]

Javelin is the best

[mortal aspen]

it's good, but only as a sidearm for specials and hunter

[olive halo]

even with that though it still does take a lot of time, feels like im unholstering a solid tungsten rod

[calm shard]

p sure it puts it at the same base draw time as the infantry autoguns

[olive halo]

ive been using armorbane and surgical on it bcz its taking a while to kill armored guys

which brings me to my other question

[calm shard]

must have been using Mk V then

[olive halo]

I saw a message earlier that it can 2 shot a crusher? but it still takes me like 4 or 5 shots

[calm shard]

IIIa and IV can innately kill carapace

Helbore IV can one shot them

Usually 2 shots them

[olive halo]

I tried all 3 tbh

[calm shard]

IIIa takes around 3

[olive halo]

im aware the psykhaunium isnt an accurate representation either, I took it with me into matches

[midnight wyvern]

why isn't psyk?

[olive halo]

man what the hell am I doing wrong then

[midnight wyvern]

not shooting head?

[olive halo]

honestly it could be that, bcz I noticed when playing with mmf I wasnt getting stacks a lot of times

its probably skill issue but it feels like faulty hitreg

[midnight wyvern]

prob skill issue or bad connection

but you'd notice the connection

[olive halo]

also, doesn't weight of fire go against surgical?

[midnight wyvern]

use both

you don't wait for full surgical

you dont need to

[olive halo]

doesn't it reduce crits though? if you shoot faster and faster the ads time is shorter and shorter

its already like only 50 or 55% with a regular full charge

[midnight wyvern]

getting crit from other things like deadshot so you end up having high enough crit rate that it crits most of the time anyway

you also have time where you're looking and aiming for the next thing where surgical will be stacking anyway

it gets higher than you'd think even firing fast with WoF

[olive halo]

oof thats more points I gotta lose then to get deadshot and opening salvo

[midnight wyvern]

dont go opening

[olive halo]

I think those are the only two crit chance talents though

speaking of which, this is the build I was using: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0185610-c5c9-4c93-a1c5-15e034d35e53/temp-4

[mortal aspen]

there is another...

[olive halo]

if you could go through it and let me know of any improvements that would be great

[hybrid plover]

tac axe double barrel is now on the table

[mortal aspen]

you skip reciprocity (25% crit)

[olive halo]

I didn't think it was worth more than being able to dodge again, I'll try it

Might be the thing that works

Is that the only change?

[mortal aspen]

wdym?

Duck and Dive is just stamina and it has an internal cooldown

trash, imo

[olive halo]

Ah fr? Thanks for the heads up

[calm shard]

Honestly not the worst thing ever if you've got shooters being a bitch

[dapper coyote]

The AP slug in the medium combat shotgun is so fucking good at murking bosses

Press E, delete bullet loaded

It made me considering to drop krak for shredder frag lmao

[willow prairie]

krak for cara still

[dapper coyote]

Also one more thing

If you are loading shotguns or anything that is manually loaded

And you have the perk for faster reload but your gun is completely empty

Reload 1 bullet, stop

And then continue to reload for faster time

[tepid otter]

wats the medium one again

[midnight wyvern]

he means agri combat shotgun

slug special

[dapper coyote]

Idk, the green one.

[dapper coyote]

Idk, the green one.

I don't remember individual gun variant names

[tepid otter]

u and me both

[dapper coyote]

So i fallback to is its "weight class" by color lmao

[calm shard]

Green is light shotgun, Agripinaa

[dapper coyote]

Is it? I thought the blue is light variant

[calm shard]

For combat shotgun

Light is green
Medium is blue
Heavy is brown

[dapper coyote]

Huh, thats inconsistent colour, but consistent for imperium stuff

[calm shard]

Medium is a fucking weird gun in a very subtle way here as well

Zarona combat shotgun is the only gun in the entire game that has a different damage profile if you ADS compared to just hipfiring

[dapper coyote]

Mine does not

490-490

[calm shard]

Right it doesn't reflect on the card

But it has a different minimum pellet count and finesse damage

It's super strange, and I kind like it

[steep flower]

Accatran has different dmg too but marginal

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/washing-hands-fire-sparks-grinder-gif-16535412

[dapper coyote]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/872452619946299422/1075129548389228675/20230115_122759-2.gif

[dapper coyote]

Dump stat for combat shotguns is mobility?

Or something else?

[surreal rune]

yes

[dapper coyote]

Aight nice i got a good roll then

[oak coral]

damn i hate long bomb

[nimble finch]

@undone jungle what melee should i use if i don't like knife?
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a00a3427-05b3-40fd-840e-e13b3df93d5d/build-i-stole-from-a-dude-but-made-better

[oak coral]

i hear duelling sword kinda cool

[nimble finch]

dueling sword? what's that?

[elder vessel]

duelling sword got nerfed into the ground it isnt worth the dockets to get one

dont bother, use a better weapon

like chainaxe

[oak coral]

when? in last patch? damn

[elder vessel]

yeha its big damage poke does like 3 dmg now

actual ftier trash

rip

[oak coral]

bruh i thinking it's something with my build

thanks for info, i need to check patch notes better

i hope recon lasgun still good?

[elder vessel]

it is good but it is super boring

[oak coral]

kinda, yeah
don't wanna try plasma with this heat feature and i don't really understand helbore lasgun

so dk

[hollow ibex]

what

[hollow ibex]

no it's still very strong, though i would never recommend it to anybody

in fact might might be stronger than before

[elder vessel]

shhh

[hollow ibex]

the "nerf"

[tame lodge]

Cool? Uh
It's good

Sure

[oak coral]

i'm confused

[elder vessel]

OK I was lying

[oak coral]

gatekeeping builds is crazy

[mortal aspen]

it wasn't nerfed, arguably it was buffed by proxy

[elder vessel]

But I dont regret it dont use duelling sword youll ruin your brain

[oak coral]

😢 so it's something wrong with my build

[hollow ibex]

100% agreed

[oak coral]

lifelong trust trauma

[elder vessel]

the big dmg stab barely got touched, crushers are thicker than ever, and DS got a parry function to replace its stagger poke special

duelling sword barely changed, the ecosystem demands armor damage (which DS has in spades) more than ever

Its not F-Tier trash, its SSS-Tier trash

[sudden cedar]

https://tenor.com/bpGHG.gif

Sounds like someone has a vendetta against that weapon

[elder vessel]

I am not alone

[steel veldt]

Knife is ruining my brain

[hollow ibex]

at least knife forces you to get within touching distance of crushers when you shank them

[elder vessel]

How long has it been since DS got put on other classes?

[hollow ibex]

idk a year?

been a while

[elder vessel]

The dark ages

[untold nymph]

I have witnessed a great Veteran during an auric morris trial

He had a bolter and executioner stance

[elder vessel]

Let me guess

Infinite ammo dumping

[untold nymph]

Perhaps

Idk I was playing ogryn and was witnessing his name pop up many times due to the amount of Elites and Specialists he killed

It was grand

[elder vessel]

not exactly a "great" veteran

Squeezing the trigger at bad guys isnt very hard

[untold nymph]

Anyways I need an executioners stance build

Or something that has executioners stance

[elder vessel]

you need exe stance and a bolter

thats all you need to pull it off

wait for the indulgence that gives you inf ammo during the stance

god mortis is boring

[untold nymph]

Rewards are good though

Definitely need some of those for my other operatives

[untold nymph]

Any recommendations for keystone

[elder vessel]

its an infinite ammo bolter.

You could have no build at all

And it'll kill everything just as dead

[quick fossil]

Are there some builds up for veteran ?

[hollow ibex]

what sort of build are you looking for?

[quick fossil]

Hmmm kinda just want to use recon lasgun and pew pew things to death instead of trying to melee everything.

or is plasma gun still the best gun ?

[hollow ibex]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9e3a17a9-c4c4-4f9b-855b-c37250ad14f2/light-show

try this, though you should still melee

the only gun where i'll say you could go full ranged

assuming your team handles horde clear

is helbore

[hollow ibex]

good but very ammo hungry

[surreal rune]

no shocktrooper?

[hollow ibex]

nope, because there's survivalist and you should be meleeing hordes rather than shooting them

[surreal rune]

fair enough

[spark helm]

Shock trooper pairs better when play that's using it for longer periods of time. You can still use your recon lasgun for that purpose, but being deliberate is better because you don't want to exhaust yourself suddenly during a gauntlet of engagements.

[dapper coyote]

Is deadeye good for shotgun slugs?

[hollow ibex]

no

unless you're running a meme build

[surreal rune]

no, i dont think it would help the combat shotgun or its slug in most ways

[hollow ibex]

then again most deadshot builds are meme builds

[dapper coyote]

Its for the agripinna(?) slug special (that shit is fun as hell)

[spark helm]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9f542597-bd74-4c94-8c19-695ae3b4fc01/shotgun-sniper

[dapper coyote]

The light shotgun one

[spark helm]

This one pretty neat tbh.

If you want to play around with full bore antics.

[dapper coyote]

I don't like the delay

[spark helm]

? This can be fired quickly.

[dapper coyote]

Which DID get me killed alot against snipers and what not

[oak coral]

i'm using this one and having fun with it
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a018cf46-6cbd-4f4e-ac83-503b28842aa0/ash-baby

[surreal rune]

the delay?

[dapper coyote]

The charge stuff

[spark helm]

Oh you're talking about weaving in the special.

[surreal rune]

loading the slug?

[dapper coyote]

Hb can charge right?

The HB lasgun

[spark helm]

Yeah

[dapper coyote]

Yea that one

I hate that

[surreal rune]

ah

[spark helm]

Download the curse mod helbore_passive_charge

[dapper coyote]

Slug on the other hand, LOAD AND B A N G

[spark helm]

If you want to bother with it still.

[surreal rune]

weight of fire may help

[dapper coyote]

Or ADS

[spark helm]

Just get the helbore charge mod if you want to ease up on your finger

[dapper coyote]

Also

Do the bonuses about hitting all pellets applied to ADS Slugs?

Cos THAT would be VERY funny

[spark helm]

Yes. If you're running full bore you'll still get the bonuses.

[dapper coyote]

Ayyyyyyy

Fuck yeah

[spark helm]

Unsure about other blessings off the top of my head.

[surreal rune]

i run full bore, no respite

[dapper coyote]

I do run half slug and half buckshot shotgunner rightnow

[spark helm]

The build I suggested isn't bad at all with what it can do. Mmf is much easier to manage and if your melee play is solid enough, you'll do fine when your aim is consistent.

[dapper coyote]

I can snipe snipers pretty well whilest dealing with chaffs

But

I don't get my shovel just yet

So it ain't completed

[spark helm]

Are you just sticking to shovel for melee?

[dapper coyote]

Nah, there's a few other options

[quick fossil]

Did melee get buffed or are we still using axe and dueling swords ?

[dapper coyote]

Currently im using agni Shockmaul temporarily

But i plan to switch to other melee

Starting with shovel

Maybe to Dclaw (the big catachan knoif/sword)

[spark helm]

Melee been solid enough fwiw with generally strong options. Tax, ds and p.sword are still great

[quick fossil]

Sounds good

[hollow ibex]

vet can make everything work now

whereas before it was genuinely kinda painful to use some weapons

[spark helm]

Melee overall feels easier to build extras for. Rashad been good too. Only melee i don't use rn is like combat blade, folding shovels and shock mauls.

Combat blades aren't awful, I'm just not using them atm. Never touched folding shovels, idc. They might be fine idk. Shock mauls ain't mace from vt2 for me so I sleep on em most days

[dapper coyote]

So long as you're using the agni and not the other Shockmauls is...
Gud...

[spark helm]

P. Falchion is lacking in excessive strength but stable enough to use.

[surreal rune]

combat blades have felt better because serrated blades is viable to pick up now

[dapper coyote]

God do not use the other maul

It's awful

[surreal rune]

it allows better horde clear and better weakspot damage with mercy killer

i feel

[spark helm]

Unless there's melee weapon marks that I'm unfamiliar with that are terrible no matter how many right tree talents one pumps into, veteran has enough going on for it now that your melee generalist antics and specialized melee antics are at least easier to build for on paper. Even more than before because the bottom right side of the tree just has so much that melee loves to passively benefit from.

Veteran has enough utility on its own to just be functional with melee builds.

And if one doesn't know what to do with weapons they're learning to stress test, smack on ye olde voc.

It's kind of hard to struggle as vet imo.

It's just that safe of a class.

If you got melee as your star in a build, look to veterans' stupidly simple to use strong options and with ws, you're usually golden.

[dapper coyote]

Just don't use the "Munitorum mkIII" shock maul

You need to hit the most basic chaffs THREE TIMES in the head to kill

They're basically light version of the shock maul

But its so awful

[spark helm]

Uhuh.

Unfortunately, I gotta try it now so...

[hollow ibex]

both shock mauls are similarly mediocre

[spark helm]

rip my missions potentially ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow ibex]

ther eisn't one that's horribly worse than the other

[fair shale]

Idm shock Maul on vet tbh, I also just dont know if id recommend it for havoc

[spark helm]

When I used them back then they were fine but not work horse melees.

[dapper coyote]

Yea but atleast agni can 1-2 tap chaffs

[fair shale]

Its safe, kinda reminds me of shovel sometimes

[spark helm]

They just do the basics of fighting hordes, clapping up weaker specialists and elites and then everything else was a zap and a gun to the face

Or nades and voc abuse smart play

[dapper coyote]

Tazer and use my Special slug on bulwarks or Crushers

Hehehehehe

Get stun and stun

[spark helm]

I'll have to try them myself.

The other combat axes passable? I remember despising thr antax.

[fair shale]

Rashad is the preferable one

[spark helm]

Well yeah. I'm ignoring Rashad cuz it's just solid.

My wh1 cornerstone melee.

[surreal rune]

the shock mauls are good for applying skullcrusher

[tame lodge]

The Antax is usable

[spark helm]

Some days I just wanna walk forward and make very simple choices.

No extra conscious upkeep

No dodge dancing the same ways

[surreal rune]

otherwise they have some crowd control and armor damage but thats about it

[spark helm]

Just walk up and press the lmb

Rashad X Plasma Gun & VoC. ❤️

[untold nymph]

I need to farm Plasteel and Diamantine Kaz

[dapper coyote]

Heheheheheh BZZZBZBZBZBZBZBZBBZBZBZBZ

BZBZBZBZBZBZBZ

BZBZBZBZBZBZBZBZ
VZBZBZBZBZBZBBZBZBZ

Spam the taze button

Till the big one dies

[quick fossil]

holy shit, 9 snipers ... in damnation

[fair shale]

Shoot them

[covert fable]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-bee-spin-spinning-gif-23536667

[dapper coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/electric-tazer-gif-15632411

The mauler seeing me

Stun locking him

With 2 krak shoved up his ass

[wraith locust]

Hey it’s me a mauler

[covert fable]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1397311201276596286/1398693089345798194/attachment.gif

Nice

[dapper coyote]

And it was never seen again... Maybe

[covert fable]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-glorpshit-mad-gif-12826934952903770254

[charred salmon]

What is the best las gun

Mk

[covert fable]

non

[tame lodge]

2b

[spark helm]

I'd say the default one you start with.

If you're talking about infantry lasgun.

[charred salmon]

Yeah I'm using the highest damage one. But didn't there used to be a mk XII but now I don't see it

[tame lodge]

Probably renamed

Check

Uh

Secrets of the machine god

I think

For the name changes

[steel veldt]

man Focus Target is good

but I like Weapon Specialist

especially with Bolt Pistol

[heavy rover]

For me it's the helbore

[hollow ibex]

helbore

[charred salmon]

Really

I thought no one likes those

[fair shale]

I hate it but I'll tell you its good

[heavy rover]

the recent rework has turned helbores into my go-to weapon, especially in havoc

[steel lagoon]

Always been good but takes less practice to get the hang of it now

[sharp epoch]

vet is probably like the second squishiest class wym? 😭

[dry cloak]

Rework is saying much.

[formal ice]

More firing speed

[ivory trail]

helbore got rework? Where can I find the detail?

[spark helm]

We were strictly talking about melee builds so tankiness is whatever. Plus, it's not like a veteran with decent defense is going to be exceptionally pressed for maintaining high toughness. We gotta stop acting like this isn't the case.

[orchid hemlock]

wait Vet is swuishy?

where tf is everyone? this is the event

[spark helm]

And there's still the fact that so much of that safety is tied to a single ability with pretty easy to manage cdr, one of the most versatile and simple tools in the entire game between two different titles with three variations of itself (kruber, salts, and vet).

[hollow ibex]

it got several

bayonets got nerfed (repeatedly)

draw speed massively buffed

sights improved

and i think damage buffs? idr

[orchid hemlock]

ded game 😔

[ivory trail]

draw speed was one of the point that put me off. Maybe I should try it again. But bayonet was op?

[umbral scaffold]

yo goons

[sharp epoch]

I feel like vets toughness gain is pretty subpar unless your taking both ck and o4b, which are both mid, only the abillities really provide the bulk of the toughness

[ivory trail]

I know that you can do some tricky things with it but it was quite some work. I didn't think worth doing.

[sharp epoch]

You can really feel how bad vets toughness regen is when your trying to solo a boss where none of your toughness gain applies

[spark helm]

It's not anywhere as explosive compared to certain classes but it really isn't something I'd say is a negative contributor to a class that can just perform solidly with a shitton of utility passives for maintaining general upkeep.

\

[hollow ibex]

it was pretty good, but now it really is just a backup

[spark helm]

That's toughness, grenades for oneself and others if taken, tdr steroids on a dime to stabilize steady gain and multiple melee options that make giving oneself breathing room as needed a breeze. And again, a literal ability to forces breathing room and overloads toughness for oneself and everyone else.

Veteran's entire schtick in this regard with these ideas in mind make it a class that's mostly just tasked with being fundamentally aware and capable of playing the game at a base level.

So to me, that's a huge boon in the safety department the moment the player in question isn't just floundering and giving up damage on top of having better target priority practices and basic efficient emergency plays to revive people, get someone out of a net, etc.

You just have to not be awful and the rest of veteran spins. You can be totally overshadowed and still be useful.

[sharp epoch]

The last thing about being aware is just something every good player needs to be it's not just a veteran thing

[spark helm]

That's why I said fundamental play makes everything else about veteran better because it's just giving itself and other people nice spins on shit people just want to have.

Including its own easy to gain selfish buffs.

Unless things are just totally falling apart or the player isn't as experienced as they need to be for crazy situations, veteran isn't asking a lot of players. IT's strongest builds are some of the easiest to use as well so you're just promoted to being functional.

Your risk taking is mitigated by your defensive output. Your offense is opened up with free to spam grenades. Your killstreaks feed into the simplest parts of your kits so you just spin being good at being basic.

And it's a fatshark game.

Being good at the bare minimum goes far as hell. The moment you start using the most busted shit, you're practically unstoppable or at the very least harder for the director to check when one branches away from veteran entirely.

[sharp epoch]

I'd say in terms of skill vet probably takes the most if you're not running a dueling sword

ogryn arbites are braindead m1 classes, psyker can just stay on staff and manage peril, and zealot is just book spam in havoc

[spark helm]

Any class can be made to be "W+m1"

Some are just more sticky with it than others.

[sharp epoch]

Those classes are the easiest ones and actually the meta basically

the meta is m1 spam

[spark helm]

I'd say it's more like being able to just make less decisions by having explosive toughness gain, tdr, cdr, with broadly juiced up dmg makes w+m1 easier. People can still shit themselves but it might take a little longer.

Because even in vt2, low risk, low execution, high output builds were always a thing.

If you wanted to make a build and you couldn't do basic THP generation, you already fucked up.

[fair shale]

Idk, it might take the most if you're running a weakspot weapon but I do not think Plas+PS is particularly skillful either

[spark helm]

And this one. Veteran not really pressed to be on top of their shit unless they're making it a point to do so.

[sharp epoch]

plas ps is particularly gimped by having almost zero mobillity so yes theres some skill in surviving with that

[spark helm]

The mobility is meaningless imo but that's just my thought on it.

[sharp epoch]

And it's not like vet can eat multiple crusher and mauler overheads like ogryn

or arb

[fair shale]

I would say crusher and mauler OH is the most telegraphed attack in the game tbf

[sharp epoch]

There's a reason the meta is dueling sword

[spark helm]

You just protect yourself easily by breathing. The hardest part with those builds for less experienced people is just knowing how to properly weave in your empowered states with the p.sword and managing your committal actions with using the plasma gun.

[fair shale]

If you can't dodge those idk what to tell you

[steep flower]

Not purely book i would say but then again average zel does only book cause its technically ez

[spark helm]

at least with my experience, that's usually the biggets hump for people newer to higher level shit.

[sharp epoch]

There's a point you cant dodge the horde of maulers and crushers with one of the worst mobillity weapons in the game

[fair shale]

if i can do it you can too

[spark helm]

They get dropped because they don't really know how to use their reach for the p.sword and they overcommit to using the plasma gun so they get screwed for it.

It's like um

[steep flower]

Only arby; ogryn still dies to 2 max

[spark helm]

FPS basics: throw the grenade first if you want to start your shooting THEN start your shooting

[fair shale]

And tbf thats on taking true grit

Which imo is a waste of a talent point but I understand the arguement

[spark helm]

Lots of vets in higher levels that I noticed struggling were missing on the small pieces of choices that are just made better with longer dedication.

REally really basic shit

[steep flower]

Never was, never will be

[spark helm]

Shit like not wasting time and immediately getting someone out of a net.

Or shoving a dog off instead of missing every shot then reloading and getting interrupted by something. >_>

[fair shale]

If you like it you like it

[spark helm]

Or breaking down a mixed horde with deliberate target priorities.

[sharp epoch]

Yeah you just dodge every hit and never take damage sure

[spark helm]

Or just having a concept of wht's more dangerous.

And not shitting themselves over every crusher party

[fair shale]

I mean I can definitely manage the crusher and mauler overheads, personally

[steep flower]

Its not ‚liking it’; its bs prevention and as a frontliner you need that

[fair shale]

I've played with it, I've played without it. It's fine imo. I think it primarily helps with the overheads, which as stated are the most telegraphed attacks in the game.

[spark helm]

or just...

[steep flower]

Oh everyone can; but that prevents it… also poxbursters & snipers

[sharp epoch]

ofc you can dodge most of the time but when theres tox gas and fire and a mob of armor you cant even see the overhead let alone hear it some times

[spark helm]

Doing better combos and actually understanding their reach with different weapons.

And on top of that, actually hitting heads on average

[fair shale]

Me in the tox gas with rebreather and +15 percent corruption resistance

Idk, I don't think vet is wildly hard to play personally

[steep flower]

Ikr; some ppl don’t think ahead & get overconfident & then die the most embarrasing way - whenever i see arby with no true grit i know they don’t know better

[fair shale]

Not if you're using like, good set ups

Especially not post trework

Treework?

Pick your favorite idc

[steep flower]

I like that word 🌳

[fair shale]

I am also a fan of mashing words together

[sharp epoch]

I'm not saying vets that hard to play, I'm saying playing every other melee class it's like easy mode to dodge and hit stuff

arb has insane mob and dr, ogryn has high stagger and dr

[spark helm]

I'll definitely agree and say that arbites is vet on a good day with extra oomph.

[sharp epoch]

zealot also has insane mob and a get out of jail free card

[spark helm]

Arbites just has guns that do what builds promote on uptime right out the gate

[fair shale]

Arb has a metric fuckton of "just works" talents

[spark helm]

^

[fair shale]

And by that I mean talents that incentivize playing the game correctly via dodging, blocking, pushing etc etc

[spark helm]

I personally think arbites is stronger at face value just because it does what one would want to be better earlier with less stress on uptime

If you can do a combo, you just gained 10 buffs, four of em already stacked to max.

lol

[sharp epoch]

The only thing lacking on arb right now is his abillities, like nuncio is meh, and the charge push is also meh, only castigator's actually does something

[fair shale]

Completely disagree tbh

[spark helm]

Foot knight charge is nice any day. I got nothing on nuncio because I love castigator too much.

[fair shale]

Nuncio is wildly good assuming your team will leverage it

BTL is good CC

CS is unironically probably the worst ability they have but it's the most actionable solo

[sharp epoch]

I see it as a worse ogryn charge becayse it doesnt knock down big enemies or even stagger bosses

[fair shale]

Nuncio?

[spark helm]

I just like castigator because I get to keep doing what I'm already doing. There's more times where I don't even need it.

[spark helm]

The aquila thing or whatever

The JBL speaker ability.

[sharp epoch]

Nuncio I feel like looses value half the time if your team has to reposition on havoc especially

[fair shale]

I agree with that but assuming you can do the arb thing and maintain a frontline they'll benefit+nuncio makes it easier to do that

[sharp epoch]

and it's just a little toughness gain with random buffs and 15% damage buff

like idk why suppression buff is in there

[fair shale]

Its also very good to throw at dead and dying people

Buffs your revive speed by like 30%

[sharp epoch]

and the revive thing too

It reminds me of shout revive

[fair shale]

Idk, Nuncio+3 revive speeds has actually saved some of my Havoc runs

[tall torrent]

Nuncio is mid at best

It’s just worse chorus

[sharp epoch]

where its something you take that is detrimental to other options but it helps when your reviving

[sharp epoch]

I think you could just as easily throw a shock mine or pop castis if theres no disablers

[fair shale]

Ive absolutely been interrupted reviving out of Casti

Shock mine is good for it but I dont normally run them

[spark helm]

I just wing my revives usually. Throw some explosive while closing in and timing it right around when it pops to get as much of that revive in as possible.

[steep flower]

Don’t underestimate nuncio nor btl; casti is a panic button and thats it - provides nothing for the team apart from your own survivability which is already insanely good
Nuncio debuffs enemies & buffs allies with great usage in both winning & losing scenarios
Btl is perfect for keeping the frontline CC’ed

[sharp epoch]

With execution order you can use castis as just a board wipe as the first subnode gives you 50% more damage and just pair that with the exe shotgun and kill the whole backline

[fair shale]

Writ isnt even good

CS entire point is being a one point wonder

[spark helm]

I'm well aware. It's probably the only ability I use at this point. Pox mobs are a free fps tank.

[steep flower]

Thats why you pay attention where to place it and if your team does not utilize it its on them; pepegas have to learn sometimes the hard way

[sharp epoch]

castis kinda like executioner stance tou use it to kill the enemies better for your team thats your utility

[steep flower]

Ye; only for exec shotty realisticly

[fair shale]

Not even, id rather take withering fire and have consistent +15 percent damage for it at all times

[sharp epoch]

With execution order you can get your ability probably every 20-25 seconds

[steep flower]

Not even close; casti is a self defensive buff that gains dmg if you take writ; exec stance adds offence already

[sharp epoch]

and writ uptime is basically 5-20 seconds max

writ lasts 10 more seconds since your last elite so if you kill one at the end of castis you still have damage buff

[haughty mauve]

Can one of you karkers share me a build for helbore that they can use in havoc?Struggling to decide between the heavy mark or the fast mark.

[steep flower]

Try both; both are really good & cover different fields

[sharp epoch]

Well they both take 2 points still, cause exe needs one of the others to help extend the uptime

[fair shale]

Helbore is a personal taste gun on marks ime

[spark helm]

I think i use the one that does the bayonet slash or whatever.

[haughty mauve]

how do you build it though?

[spark helm]

I never gave a fuck about the bayonet lol

[haughty mauve]

got carapace,unyielding on the mk 4 flak,unyeilding on the mk 5