veteran-class

[fair shale]

And you can just

Purge staff

Alright yeah i see how that goes

[hollow ibex]

i'd take FGS as a gunker

but not worth as a staffker

imo

[meager echo]

If you play h40 and check score board, most game psyker has < 15k melee dmg.

[fair shale]

And i fundamentally dont believe in playing Gunker

I have a vet

[hollow ibex]

gunker's fine

fun

[meager echo]

and they do like 1.5 to 2.5mil dmg

[fair shale]

Yeah but I didnt play the space wizard to use a gun

[dark sorrel]

But its fun :3

[fair shale]

Regrettably ive only gotten to like havoc 33

Fun is subjective

[dark sorrel]

I know lol

[fair shale]

I can climb havocs the like first day they come out

But trying to queue after without one of those stupid titles sucks

[sudden cedar]

There are always people here willing to help i bet

[fair shale]

Is that truly fundamentally different from simply queueing havoc

Its not like its quick play

[sudden cedar]

Yes.

[meager echo]

Man havoc is just about having the time to grind. At the end of the day you only need 33% win rate to get to h40. Everyone can do it. Plenty of talent players don't bother with the mode.

[fair shale]

Dude idk what it is

Cause I can climb to low 30s easily

I get off for the day

I get on the next and its just a shitshow

[meager echo]

hey I totally get your pain. I'm an advocate for no demote system.

[fair shale]

My issue is when like

Its one dude and now you have to 3 man the whole mission

Ive run into so many people in havoc with a decent CL that cannot stand up

Ive seen CL 40 True Survivors join, die first, QQ, and then it fucks the entire mission

Or god forbid fatshark closes the lobby

[calm shard]

yeah lmao

[meager echo]

If they are 40, chance they not trying their very best since they can no longer be demoted.

[calm shard]

and havoc 40s are easier by comparison because the players there are better

I am fully capable of doing havoc 40 but leavers make getting there unreasonably difficult

[fair shale]

Then don't sign up for my game cause I can still be demoted

[calm shard]

And of course the usual havoc problem of "holy shit why does nobody want, or know how to play melee"

[meager echo]

I think it's fatshark fault for creating a system like this.

[fair shale]

When I was havoc 25 someone took a chance on me and we did a havoc 37 and it is genuinely not that hard if your team has some functioning brain cells

[crimson wyvern]

big problem is no one wants to take care of the trash either, everyone is going forthe elites at all times

[fair shale]

I legit hesitate to pick up any vet players for havoc cause of this

[meager echo]

People should be able to have fun, off-meta and not feels bad about losing regardless of their rank.

[calm shard]

it's so bad that when I'm playing exe vet I end up with more melee damage than some people

with just a fucking tactical axe, and like 2 or 3 melee talents

[meager echo]

right now the system is like you have to earn your right to play off-meta at h40

[calm shard]

obviously staff psykers it's a given

but zealots and other veterans???

what are you doing to have less melee damage than me???

[fair shale]

Yk what I want to know

[tender pasture]

Playing shibari quest probably

[fair shale]

Why is someones target prio ever the enemy a dog pounces instead of something actively trying to kill them

Like yeah bro farm them numbers

[tender pasture]

People with bad melee fundamentals eat shit so fast in Havoc

[willow prairie]

I got called a slur once because i was running evis fotf for bosses in 2 zealot 1 vet 1 psyker team

the other one already have chorus and voc

[fair shale]

Use Push!

Push exists as a melee mechanic please god use it

I am begging here

[tender pasture]

You think someone who doesn't melee would know a melee mechanic?

[meager echo]

It's because fat shark create the environment heavily punish people for losing. That's why people bitching when you don't bring meta stuff.

[fair shale]

I dint even think bringing the meta helps some people

I unironically think a minority of the people I've seen using duelling sword are like

using it well

[tender pasture]

Saw a dude light attack spamming ragers

It hurt me more to watch it than it did the ragers

[calm shard]

except another thing they don't understand is that the reason dueling sword and other strictly single target options are meta

is because teams are expected to have psykers, flamer zealots, etc. that handle hordes

so the dueling sword's shit horde clear doesn't matter

and they'll just send 4 dueling swords anyways

and wonder why moebian 21st don't die

then get overwhelmed and die

[meager echo]

Bro if you join a low havoc lobby where vet take DS + frag. Chance is the team instantly fold when twins spawn.

[calm shard]

pffsh nah I'll kill them myself in 20 seconds in low havocs

[meager echo]

I play pubs more than enough to see that shiet.

[calm shard]

gun psyker STRONG

[fair shale]

I can hard carry a havoc up till like 19

I've done it once on a 23

Vet or Arb, probably could on Og too

I'm ngl

Im debating just doing Purge Staff Bubble Psyker for Havocs

Like its getting to that point

[willow prairie]

playing inferno psyker in havoc is literally easiest shit even if it look complicated

[fair shale]

I agree

[meager echo]

nah, psyker is hard to carry people. You need the team to enable you. It's easier for you to enable bad psyker.

[fair shale]

No it isnt man

Some people cannot be helped

[calm shard]

gun psyker doesn't need the team to do shit

just don't fuck up and blender everything by yourself

[fair shale]

Like a truly bad psyker is gonna kill themselves irregardless of what i do

[calm shard]

speaking of gun psyker actually

another thing people don't bring enough of in havoc

is fucking boss damage

[tall torrent]

doesn't even look complicated lmfao

[meager echo]

If you play gaze/ venting shriek the moment you get twins + bon you will lose in pubs. People can not handle that without bubble.

[tall torrent]

psyker truly the top 1 class

[fair shale]

Yeah for a mode that spawns 3 bosses every 3 minutes people really do not seem to want to deal with them

[tall torrent]

even buffing vet dmg by +70% is not enough to beat psyker

[calm shard]

or know how with their increased health

[willow prairie]

I mean before i play psyker for real i spectate and think you need insane apm to play psyker

[calm shard]

people are just used to unboosted bolter magdumps being enough ig

and have no idea how to kill captains

[willow prairie]

then when i do it literally the easiest shit ever

[tall torrent]

nah

[calm shard]

or twins

[tall torrent]

literally zero effort lol

[fair shale]

Yk what else ive noticed with bosses?

[tall torrent]

vet has highest APM

[calm shard]

for inferno psyker no way easiest shit ever

[fair shale]

People will hard focus a boss instead of killing elites around it in havoc

[willow prairie]

inferno psyker is infact

[calm shard]

voidblast psyker is a little harder just because it's finnicky to aim

[willow prairie]

easiest shit ever

[jaunty herald]

do you guys think captain wolfer is a top or bottom?

[tall torrent]

this the most common mistake

[fair shale]

Bottom, cause I hypothesize he dated Zola and she definitely isn't

[meager echo]

I think vet high apm is the skill floor of that class. It's just muscle memory. Psyker has higher skill ceiling tho.

[fair shale]

Target prio seems like a massive issue for a lot of people

[jaunty herald]

[tall torrent]

psyker can reach higher dps because psyker is mechanically busted and scales indefinitely vs mixed horde

I wouldn't call mechanically busted scaling "skill ceiling"

[jaunty herald]

zola did come from the hive ghetto, so that is plausible

[calm shard]

I'll do it for a chaos spawn just because you will die if you don't kill the chaos spawn first

[tall torrent]

he's zola's older brother lol

[calm shard]

overtuned fucking shits that they are

[tall torrent]

wat in the incest

[fair shale]

Where's that tidbit?

[meager echo]

In a sense, psyker has to know the game more to play. I've seen bad psyker take melee out to join boss fight instead of being on staff.

[calm shard]

That's what you're supposed to do

Because staves can't kill bosses for shit

[meager echo]

no dood. We have taunt ogryn, ps6 vet, book zealot. More than enough dedicated boss dmg.

[tall torrent]

wolfer name is biron wolfer
zola's brother is tibiron and he got tithed to fight in the moebian fringes
zola is obsessed with finding wolfer

[fair shale]

I didnt know the middle bit

[willow prairie]

I mean maybe they been aggroed

[tall torrent]

nah that's not "knowing more"

[fair shale]

I read the entire context as Zola's prior lover going off to the fringe wars and coming back this ngl

[tall torrent]

psyker can know far less and do far better

[meager echo]

You keep being on staff and clear chaff not focusing the boss when playing psyker man.

someone have to do it. No one do it better than psyker

[fair shale]

I think vet or possibly zealot requires the most effort to preform adequately on, personally.

[tall torrent]

a staff psyker's melee boss dps is maybe 1/3 of vet

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1420105421368201336/balls.mp4?ex=68d42fbc&is=68d2de3c&hm=c87c80bd7a2f32a3038fb681785d30e2b378c067689600163e7e3dc9de7ce563&

[agile mango]

is bring it down worth it on plasma?

[fair shale]

Bring it down is ogryn and monstrosities?

[agile mango]

yes

[fair shale]

Iirc?

Imo yes if you're going to Havoc

[tall torrent]

it's a generalist pick

[willow prairie]

skitarius my beloved

[tall torrent]

plasma is more for shooting human enemies, less for shooting ogryns
usually

[agile mango]

reckon my build is all good then? Its for havoc, i run plasma and mercy killer/uncanny knife

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9ffa89ad-998a-49f4-b20e-f161f545ee26/plasma-build-2

[tall torrent]

I don't use that mod

[fair shale]

I shoot ogryn with it but I run blaze away optimized cooling

I shoot everything with it lol

[tall torrent]

drop always prepared
get grenadier
optionally also swap one motion with longshot since it helps plasma's 1 taps (not required)

[agile mango]

since I'm going weapon specialist IDK about longshot since I really think I need the 50% weapon swap speed. Is dropping always prepared for grenadier the only other change you recommend?

[meager echo]

run get hot and rising heat, because I notice when using blaze away. Continue shooting lead to missing shot a lot.

[tall torrent]

yea the rest looks fine

always prepared is IQ tax for plasma

grenadier is very strong for frags

[willow prairie]

alway prepared is debatable for plasma

[tall torrent]

not debatable, just IQ tax

[willow prairie]

unless you spam it like 24/7

I don't think i ever have to reload plasma once outside loading room or inbetween horde

[fair shale]

Its a skill floor

Its harder to use Blaze Away Optimized but ime it does more damage

[meager echo]

Yeah, I tried. I can not make the most out of it.

[agile mango]

thanks man. may I ask why grenadier is the best pick if I'm dropping always prepared?
I've heard that +25% ammo is super necessary and that out for blood is basically required.

Also, I just realized the build I put on gameslantern is slightly wrong. I have demo team, not leave no one behind.

[tall torrent]

blaze away + optimized cooling is lower ammo efficiency (worse breakpoints) but higher initial burst

[meager echo]

Get hot is easier for me.

[fair shale]

Ill agree with that.

I just like when every shot after the 4th is doing a charged shot worth of damage

[tall torrent]

+25% ammo is not required, it depends on how much u shoot but u prob shouldn't shoot it that much in havoc, it's a player habit thing
out for blood not as good as on your toes most of the time

grenadier is particularly good for frags because when it saves u a ton of extra grenades across a match and whenever it applies u wipe horde with 1 nade

usually vs horde u throw 2 frags for dmg which is 36% chance for grenadier to proc twinned blast

[agile mango]

thanks for the breakdown. lastly, for my breakpoints, what perks should I put on my plasma?

[tall torrent]

if either is twinned, ur grenade total dmg is 65% higher

[tall torrent]

unarmored (debatable, I like it for consistency vs tox bomber, but I think u can reach that with the new dmg talents active)
flak mandatory

[fair shale]

I like unarmored on plasma a lot also

[tall torrent]

maniac is optional vs unarmored

[agile mango]

what's the advntange/disadvantge for both?

[tall torrent]

u don't have to take unarmored or maniac because skirmisher + EW/AE will send u over those core breakpoints

however taking unarmored/maniac gives u easier access for those breakpoints

maniac is easier access vs both flamers
unarmored is easier access vs dreg gunner & tox bomber

[agile mango]

ty!

[faint beacon]

Blazing Trauma is fair and balanced

[tall torrent]

this wat I use
power sword VI (unyielding, carapace, power cycler, sunder)
plasma (unarmored, flak, rising heat, gets hot)

[hybrid plover]

Don't make sense to use it ever

[fair shale]

You can just learn the 3 stage reload cancel

[hybrid plover]

The one benefit it gives to plasma which is that you can always have a shot available is niche at best

[meager echo]

I thought it was 2, when the smoke release and right after the number change ?

[willow prairie]

it hard to run out of plasma clip anyway

[fair shale]

Hits 000, screws in the battery, and number changes

[tall torrent]

https://youtu.be/C4OMkLpvoGM

[fair shale]

Yup

Its just learning muscle memory which ideally you'd do anyway

[tall torrent]

also WS now gives u reload speed lol

so now it's like 4s instead of 5s before

[hybrid plover]

%25 ammo is only good because of the delay node under it

[tall torrent]

exactly

[hybrid plover]

.5 Stam delay vet is so comfy

[fair shale]

Plasma as a weapon simply doesnt need it

[tall torrent]

I max damage anyway

[fair shale]

I mean how often do you even use a full battery between

[tall torrent]

So I don’t take that grey node cuz pathing is ass

[fair shale]

Elevators

[tall torrent]

They should swap that node with +1 stam in the middle

[hearty panther]

No weapon really needs it.

[tall torrent]

To make vet better

So every vet gets 0.5s regen delay

So based

[hybrid plover]

Agreed

[fair shale]

Lemme think for a second

[hybrid plover]

Just put the ammo node lower on that side honestly

Cuz the main reason it'd even be useful is if you actually lean into using ranged a lot

[fair shale]

I mean yeah honestly if you're diligent about actually grabbing resources

[hybrid plover]

Meaning you'd want to invest into MMF.

[turbid ibex]

they should just remake the bottom part of the vet tree

[tall torrent]

MF’s pathing so bad man

[hybrid plover]

Why it's higher up honestly confuses me.

[turbid ibex]

it takes way too many points to reach the keystone compared to the other trees

which also means it takes more points to reach the lower nodes

honestly just straight up remove the grey nodes from that part

[quiet valley]

MMF pathing is bad, but MMF is cracked to it doesn’t really matter to me

It actually shits out so much damage

[turbid ibex]

no other class has any of those in their pathing leading to the keystones besides psyker and even then it only has 1

[tropic halo]

Folks i fear they making another class rework in the future

[turbid ibex]

i will command grab you

[quiet valley]

MMF Helbore goes crazy

Just beam everything in the map

[calm shard]

yeah

i should try chainaxe in hvoc

see how its buffs and new vet tree work out

[tall torrent]

it's not conclusive of its performance cuz stagger is bugged

[calm shard]

oh right

but then chainaxe wasn't super lacking in stagger before

[quiet valley]

Yeah it’s kinda annoying the stagger rn

[calm shard]

it's certainly got more going for it in that respect than some weapons I can think of

[quiet valley]

Helbore staggers Maulers and Crushers like a Thunderhammer strike

[bitter turtle]

im pretty sure

its better to take demo team

[calm shard]

also is chainsword like good now?

or at least usable

or is that another bugged stagger so it's hard to tell thing

[willow prairie]

chainsword good

[hybrid plover]

Chainsword is

Okay.

[bitter turtle]

i want to play bletter chainsword where you melee things with 1 light to stagger and then special rev and dodge out to apply 16 bleed stacks

[willow prairie]

it's good

[hybrid plover]

It works.

[bitter turtle]

sounds funny

[calm shard]

good for him that's a huge step up from "objectively dogshit"

[willow prairie]

at least it not eviscerator

[tall torrent]

it was

no rager group stagger

gg

[willow prairie]

chain axe suck at everything

[calm shard]

yeah but Mk IV light attack one shot

which did also stagger the guy you hit

so it wasn't the worst

[hearty panther]

Chaxe12 PA now sends them right off their feet

its incredible

[fair shale]

Good at looking cool tho

[willow prairie]

the fit is mid

[mortal aspen]

I thought it got buffed

[willow prairie]

it just a general chain weapon change

[hybrid plover]

Everything got buffed technically

[calm shard]

chain axe did get buffed beyond general chain weapon changes

no longer has 0 min damage into hordes

Mk XII lights got a damage buff

[hearty panther]

hmmm

that stagger on the PA is unlisted, or its part of the stagger bugs

oh wait it is listed, its just for both marks

i see

[calm shard]

also note that they didn't buff the cleave values of the MK IV's heavy attacks or push attack

so it still does 0 at max cleave

lmao

[hybrid plover]

Holy shit my havoc 30 sucks

Pox gas, stims, and armor lmao

[quick seal]

dude was pissed that I was using focus target on malice? actually idk what he was mad about lol

[hybrid plover]

Mental illness be like

[quick seal]

I think he started out mad that I was using focus target and then he ended up being mad at everyone else int he lobby lol

[hybrid plover]

Wait

On Malice???

My guy...

[mortal aspen]

average malice gamer

[fair shale]

I had a guy in malice start screaming at the team cause he asked if we needed the skull on metalfab, we said no cause yk, we have it, he got mad we left him behind while he opened it, and then ran face first into a dh talking about us leaving him behind

[quick seal]

hell hath no fury like a malice gamer scorned

[slow spade]

wild to be angry about Focus Target

[calm shard]

it's valid to be mad about focus target

if they use a macro for it, or have ping bound to LMB

[inland canopy]

if it big and unwieldy then it should one hit crushers

[willow prairie]

say that to thunderhammer

[inland canopy]

this game really does that to you

"k but i can use the thing that actually just works"

[zenith carbon]

So what's the playstyle for power sword

[inland canopy]

always charge

it's free

there's no cooldown for it

[zenith carbon]

Never used it much and the combos seem all over the place

[slow spade]

Oh yeah I forgot people do that

[inland canopy]

it's purely for the larp

||just use the new falchion it's better||

the slashing animation of the power sword is just silly

like wolloping a banana

[ancient path]

triple barrel shotgun and executioner stance

how shitty is triple barrel executioner

[zenith carbon]

Infinite barrel shotgun with weapons specialist

[ancient path]

👀

h-how does that work

do you just not use both barrels

[inland canopy]

you keep changing weapons

[ancient path]

sweaty ass gameplay

[inland canopy]

it reloads 5% ammo and rounds up

[ancient path]

makes sense

[inland canopy]

basically doomguy gameplay

[ancient path]

lets uhhh lets fucking go

[zenith carbon]

The reload modifier

[ancient path]

what blessings

[tame lodge]

💀

[zenith carbon]

Crits!

[ancient path]

thanks gamers

[tame lodge]

Bro thinks falchion is better than Psword

[tame lodge]

[inland canopy]

tbf the shotgun becomes more of a sidearm that always has 1 bullet remaining

[zenith carbon]

so if you get one melee kill you add another shell to the shotgun

one (1)

[ancient path]

run and gun sounds kinda funny

[inland canopy]

lol they nerfed it again

[tame lodge]

Mk6 power up light against everything

[ancient path]

ah ye so just what i use on my 2nd one. ty

[tame lodge]

Power up push attack light

Against single targets

Don't bother with mk6 heavies

[ancient path]

as obama would say

uhh lets uhhhh kill some heretics

[tall torrent]

It’s for mutant

Can be more consistent /reliable

[tame lodge]

🛌

[ancient path]

im pretty sure he said that inbetween his drone strikes

[zenith carbon]

do you always recharge aftger the 3rd light?

[tame lodge]

Oh yeah it muties multiplier changed

[tame lodge]

Yeah

Powered off is never worth it

Never

[tall torrent]

it is "annoying" to always power up after activation
but it's also like 2x the dps of power falchion and at least 40% better dps than the next best thing (rashad)

[void dragon]

Psword inactive mode is quite awful

[zenith carbon]

i see i see

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1420105421368201336/balls.mp4?ex=68d42fbc&is=68d2de3c&hm=c87c80bd7a2f32a3038fb681785d30e2b378c067689600163e7e3dc9de7ce563&

[void dragon]

How easy is to get interrupted and it becoming off again while under pressure?

[tall torrent]

power sword vs boss

[tall torrent]

uh, read enemy atks

[tame lodge]

"Don't get hit "

[hollow ibex]

rarely happens if you're playing properly

[void dragon]

I mean that sometimes attacks can interrupt the active while swinging but I feel that if you get hit before you start swinging it doesn't cut it early

[tall torrent]

Which is why u do push + light

For horde enemies

[heavy rover]

Rotten armor modifier means crushers are now infested right?

[tall torrent]

no

[void dragon]

What do you think is missing for the Pfalchion to be good? Is just better damage numbers? Some said that it also needs better blessings

[zenith carbon]

so
always be charged
LLL for hordes
Push L for safer hordes
Push Attack L for single target

[heavy rover]

They're still carapace?

Ah

[surreal rune]

serrated makes the power sword lights more bearable but why not just power it up anyways

[hybrid plover]

Tuning against carapace is my thought

[willow prairie]

carapace damage is like the bane of this game melee weapon balancing

[hybrid plover]

Because it is just ass at thst

[void dragon]

And it's unyielding values? Or are those ok?

[midnight wyvern]

mercantile carnival on the event is so much ass haha, just had 4 back to back waves of 10 plus plasma gunners

[hybrid plover]

And carapace is unfortunately the balance check in this game rm

[willow prairie]

it's not like they have a predecessor that make it possible for all weapon to somewhat deal with armor or anything

[hybrid plover]

Unyielding isn't bad.

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/17548430437090141424/51DBA832FA8311D106F12DB3ABC07D779EDA9C32/

[zenith carbon]

LLL
P LL
PA L

[tall torrent]

PA L L

u can get a 3rd hit off even tho it's sweep

still a lot of dmg

[hybrid plover]

I have discovered

[tall torrent]

2x its dmg and it'll be good
also buff/rework its blessings

[hybrid plover]

If u want a good alternative to double barrel bleed build

[mortal aspen]

the predecessor actually didn't do that and was better forit

[hybrid plover]

Accatran combat shotgun is pretty darn baller now

[mortal aspen]

now if the weapon can't deal with all armor types it's dogshit

[hollow ibex]

give it brutal momentum and sunder

[hybrid plover]

And you don't even need always prepared for it

[hollow ibex]

ehhhhhh

[tame lodge]

no one uses sunder

Actually

[hollow ibex]

my existence proves you wrong

[willow prairie]

bm just up you horde clear by a lot

[tame lodge]

Give sunder and PStrike

[willow prairie]

sunder let you cleave carapace

why can't power falchion have sunder and bm

[void dragon]

Yeah isn't sunder kinda good?

[tame lodge]

It is

400% cleave

Cleaves Carapace

[calm shard]

it's actually the most braindead weapon in the game

[tame lodge]

The alternative is BM

[calm shard]

Mk III you only spam heavy attack

[tame lodge]

Which is BM

[calm shard]

Mk VI you only spam light attacks, but use push attack for single target

[willow prairie]

it cleave carapace but don't help with horde as much as bm

[tall torrent]

not "kinda good"
it's "really fucking good"

sunder power sword mogs every zealot brawler-type melee

[inland canopy]

lmao did you roll back to the first release update

[void dragon]

Neat, give the P.Falchion that then

[tall torrent]

not enough cuz dmg isn't there

powered falchion is actually less dmg than rashad

I can't even say "turning it on allows u to experience rashad for 15s" now

[hollow ibex]

with sunder, pfalch would become the ultimate mauler stagger stick 🔥

[tall torrent]

fml

[tall torrent]

by like 700 per hit

on unyielding

and that's rashad without unyielding, falchion with unyielding

[void dragon]

What's the exact amount of damage difference Falchion and C.axe have? It should have similar values since they are more of long term brawling

[tall torrent]

rashad overhead vs bulwark ~3.1k without unyielding
power falchion activated heavy overhead vs bulwark ~2.4k with unyielding

owari da

[tall torrent]

falchion is not long term brawling

[mortal aspen]

rashad weakspot crits are juicy

[tame lodge]

Get Rashad'd

Lol

[tall torrent]

u experience 15s of tolerable dmg
and then u experience DC sword for 10s

[mortal aspen]

but without crits it doesn't feel that good

[void dragon]

It's what it should be in power weapon terms I mean

[tall torrent]

power sword and rashad are long term brawling

[mortal aspen]

vs ogryns at least

[tall torrent]

because u do high dmg every hit

guaranteed

no downtime

[stuck bronze]

What are some good melee alternatives for vet other than dueling sword in this patch? Haven’t played the game in a while but figured dueling sword was still on top

[tame lodge]

Psword and Rashad

24/7/365

Everything else is throwing

[mortal aspen]

Taxe 7 gang

[tame lodge]

Make taxe 7

If you can't afford melee

[tall torrent]

ok then
buff falchion single target attacks' dmg by like 30%
buff energy leakage to +50% strength scaling with heat %
rework overheat status to be locked at 100% heat the entire time

prob enough?

[crimson wyvern]

I always take devil claw but im kinda hipster like that and consistantly carry my games if you aint in havoc just have fun, everyone else on your team is just taking what they wanna take so you should too

[stuck bronze]

Which p sword? Does it particularly matter or personal pref

[tall torrent]

also buff falchion cleave tbh

[stuck bronze]

Yeah I plan on switching around ranged weapons I just like depending on a select few melee on vet

[tame lodge]

Mk6

[void dragon]

What's it's current cleave?

[tall torrent]

having to use wrath is so cringe

[tall torrent]

should be 10.5? for activated attacks

same as relic blade

which isn't that much

[tame lodge]

Uh

Wait a sec

[crimson wyvern]

The only weapon I ever use on Vet is hellbore, I'm married to the slowest charging varient of it with cleave and inferno and love playing games with it

[tame lodge]

Ok

Powered light

I hit

8 groaners

1.25x8

10 cleave

[calm shard]

it'd have to use wrath anyways with that blessing pool 💀

[tall torrent]

is falchion on github yet

I can't find it

[timber nimbus]

What blessings are people using on the falchion anyways? I know wrath but no clue what the other would be

[jaunty herald]

https://i.imgur.com/2nrtKs3.png

[tall torrent]

oh nvm

[calm shard]

cranial grounding

[tall torrent]

had to open the updated contents file

lemme see

[calm shard]

damage and keeps you in powered mode longer

[timber nimbus]

Hell yeah OK was looking to level it a bit today so ty

[tame lodge]

Probably

Didn't check

[tall torrent]

ok yea 10.5 cleave

[tame lodge]

Went to check plasma gunner instead

[tall torrent]

it says big_cleave which is 8.5~12.5 lerp

[gilded rock]

How does it feel being able to pump out more melee damage than the melee class while also having extra utility/ranged damage after the rework, vet chat

[tall torrent]

@void dragon

10.5 is not "good"

[tame lodge]

They have multiplier of 3 on toughness

[tall torrent]

10.5 is basically

[calm shard]

feels normal to me

[tall torrent]

1 scab rager + 0.5

[calm shard]

but then I have psyker privilege

[gilded rock]

Speaking of psyker

I hope they fix CW with Venting and Scrier's soon

[void dragon]

What's good cleave then? What's the number on other weapons?

[tame lodge]

11.7

13

26

Infinite

[tall torrent]

uh

[jaunty herald]

the psyker privilege:

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-warhammer-40k-warhammer-40k-psyker-gif-4777251650916725445

[tall torrent]

power sword with sunder is 43.6 effectively

[tame lodge]

Cleaver attacked is 110+

[tall torrent]

I’d say

16 is “good cleave” for the most part

[zenith carbon]

what happens?

do you explode anyway?

[tall torrent]

Cuz >16 is effectively >4 Dreg ragers

It also depends on like

How good the weapon is at stagger

And how good the weapon is at actually killing things fast

Ex: Karsolas

[turbid ibex]

1 billion cleave but the weapon deals 2 damage on a hit

[void dragon]

Didn't knew Psword had so much cleave, but also that Relic blade doesn't have that much either

[tall torrent]

Karsolas with headtaker + slaughterer is not the highest cleave but u stagger everything and kill almost everything in 2 hits

[zenith carbon]

inferno staff

[tall torrent]

So it in my experience is better than going for cleave with wrath over slaughterer

[tame lodge]

That is one of the most problematic weapons in the game

[zenith carbon]

infinite cleave and good enough dps baybeeee

[tall torrent]

U usually don’t have to build for extremely high cleave if your weapon does either of 2 things:

1. it’s extremely good at staggering
2. it has very strong cleave damage distribution to actually kill things fast

@void dragon

[meager echo]

I think buffing hitmass of mob outside of moebian 21 is unhealthy. Invalidate tons of weapons.

[tall torrent]

Yea

[calm shard]

I already think moebian 21st are kinda fucking annoying

[inland canopy]

it's only good for horde clear, it just does less damage on every heavy, but its satisfying

[calm shard]

And pigeonhole you into running specific melees or just not being able to kill them

[meager echo]

Shouldn't have mess with body hitmass and stagger breakpoint

[calm shard]

Rotten Armor is arguably worse about it tho

[void dragon]

We really need to see the actual stagger of it, I HATE how every enemy feels like they are drunk

[atomic void]

Mobians goated

Only trash mob that doesn't melt

[inland canopy]

rotten armor was silly

[calm shard]

is

[tame lodge]

I do love fighting the 21st

[calm shard]

Rotten Armor is in the current havoc rotation

[tame lodge]

But yeah I understand

[inland canopy]

ah, i need a fwen to play havoc

[tall torrent]

It’s not even that high horde clear lol

[calm shard]

21st and rotten armor with stimms on the same mission

is fucking agonizing

the entire mixed horde has like triple the usual health

[atomic void]

Rotten armor was a fun event but why put it in havoc lmao

[calm shard]

I think it's fine in isolation

It's essentially a less bullshit pus-hardened skin

[tame lodge]

Because hard - FS

[inland canopy]

i just like the stab animation, that's pretty much it

more polished motion

[meager echo]

if you get purple + rotten armour it's gg. Tons of crushers

[calm shard]

Butr with other modifiers that effect horde enemy health it's so grueling

Crushers feel like they have the same health as a plague ogryn

[tall torrent]

I don’t think pus would even be that bad with how much better damage vet got

[calm shard]

exaggerating

yeah just punch through it with helbore lmao

[tame lodge]

Helby 4 never really cared about pus skin

[gilded rock]

Yeah, you just take corruption damage unless you kill an elite, even if you use VS or SG

[inland canopy]

they have 3 times the health

[tall torrent]

CW is still kinda bait cuz the explosion damage is ass

[inland canopy]

you kinda have to use big gun to kill Crushers now

no ifs and buts

[tall torrent]

Only ~970 at blast center vs flak

[inland canopy]

or big sword/big hammer

[gilded rock]

How much health do scab shotgunners and gunners have again

[tall torrent]

Which is not even enough to kill a Dreg shotgunner (lowest hp elite)

[gilded rock]

xd

That sucks

[tall torrent]

Nah just melee

Ranged vs carapace usually not worth

[gilded rock]

Does it just scale with general base damage or is there anything else it scales with?

[inland canopy]

depends on the weapon

[tall torrent]

Yes

[tall torrent]

There’re like
3 guns worth shooting crusher with and only with specific builds

[inland canopy]

autoguns are now useless against armor for example

[tame lodge]

Scab gunner 1700 at auric

[inland canopy]

though autoguns now kill specials faster if you maxx out

[meager echo]

Crushers is not dangerous as a unit. They act as an area denial, if they reach critical mass.

[inland canopy]

pretty much, you have to be picky about loadouts to compensate for one weapon not being good at dealing with maulers/crushers

[fair shale]

Crushers are epitome distraction fexes tbh

[gilded rock]

Bulwarks are more annoying distractions

Extremely annoying ditractions

[calm shard]

bulwarks kill runs

[inland canopy]

that and they removed mailslot weakspot

[calm shard]

because they're the only enemy in the game where the only way to counter them is to bring specific counters to them before you even go into the mission

[tall torrent]

[inland canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-gif-18148683

[calm shard]

if you do not have an answer to bulwarks you straight up cannot kill them in the middle of a group

it's just not possible

[tall torrent]

Krak stocks are mega high

Historical high

[calm shard]

they are the sole enemy that make krak grenades worth thinking about

[mortal aspen]

bulwarks die when they are killed

[tall torrent]

Nah crushers too

[calm shard]

well and I guess crushers since they have so much fucking health now

[elder vessel]

krak crack

[meager echo]

but they introduce the new fun - plasma gunners.

[gilded rock]

Implying they will let you get behind them in a group of 10

[meager echo]

pick your poison situation haha.

[ancient path]

triple barrel is kinda fun

[tall torrent]

U don’t need to just stagger or bait for an atk

[ancient path]

tho my muscle memory fucks me up

[fair shale]

Well you see the plasma gunners are firing through the bulwark phalanx

[tall torrent]

I’m saying that it can 1 tap bulwark from full hp now

[calm shard]

me trying to "bait for an attack" but the bulwark gets his shield hit by a single traitor guard las shot and now he's stagger immune too

[tall torrent]

Or 2 hit in havoc

[calm shard]

extremely good mechanic

[gilded rock]

Bait one and the one to your left does a bash at the same time and completely cucks you out of the swing

[tall torrent]

Krak/frag/VoC to stagger

[gilded rock]

Rinse and repeat until you have an opening

[tall torrent]

Isn’t that what you would do normally vs bulwark groups anyway

[calm shard]

yeah but sometimes it's nice to stagger them with caxe heavy

[meager echo]

I saw people using trauma psyker to counter rotten armour modifier.

[calm shard]

and sometimes frags don't work because of them being shot by fucking traitor guard

[tall torrent]

Don’t count on it, that’s because of the stagger bug rn

[calm shard]

which pisses me off every single time

still of the opinion that bulwarks straight up should not have hitstun animations that don't move their shield out of the way

and also remove stagger resistance from them because it's their only counterplay

[tall torrent]

They have stagger resistance of 1

You’re mistaking stagger reduction for stagger resistance

[calm shard]

yeah you right

It pisses me off so much that that mechanic can trigger off bulwarks being shot by nearby fodder enemies

[red robin]

so what do yall think is next for darktide updates?

[tall torrent]

Weapons & map

Prob

Idk if they’ll introduce another mode after havoc + Mortis

[void dragon]

New maps for story and some adjustments would be neat

[tall torrent]

Also Mortis new indulgences actually fun

[red robin]

do you think next one is weapon rebalancing or after atleast one update of maps and weapons

[tall torrent]

One of them is super op and another is “fun” even if it’s not good

[tall torrent]

Prob update + weapons

Also new talents

Playtesters sorta teased that the trees we have rn are not finalized and there’ll be new stuff added in later

[red robin]

nice

[tall torrent]

And it’s pretty obvious that vet and psyker trees not finished rn, majority of attention was given to zealot tree

[gilded rock]

Next patch is dclaw buffs, I'm coping crazy style

[red robin]

rough estimate to be sometime in december?

[tall torrent]

Prob yea

[jaunty herald]

yep

[meager echo]

I highly doubt fatshark will nerf anything heavily. They has always been shy away from it.

[tall torrent]

Currently

Psyker top 1 class
Everybody else top 5 class

With that said I think vet is prob the closest to top 2?

[gilded rock]

Yeah their most recent nerf was secretly a buff

[zenith carbon]

abry nerf: dog bleed is back

[tall torrent]

DS + plasma full rework next patch maybe

[grand perch]

good god havoc

[faint beacon]

Wins havoc 34

[tall torrent]

I’ve heard that plasma rework is actually fun

[jaunty herald]

arby nerf: dog becomes a cat that sits around

[faint beacon]

error happens

get demoted anyways

fuck this game bro

[grand perch]

we won the match, we were in the endscreen, we load onto the mourningstar "you have been demoted"

[red robin]

power scale relatively close between classes? or are classes hella distant from each other in tier?

[grand perch]

what in all fucking hells

[calm shard]

psyker and ogryn are far ahead, the other 3 are equally behind-ish

[red robin]

i can somewhat visualize that and roughly feel that in gameplay

[calm shard]

none of them are bad though so we've got that

[mortal aspen]

everyone is overpowered

but someone is more overpowered

[red robin]

damn

i kinda want to make an ogyrn now

[midnight wyvern]

just kill them

hope this helps

[red robin]

970 hours on darktide and never played ogyrn

[calm shard]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shock-gasp-what-da-hell-open-mouth-gif-10085839188243199944

[mortal aspen]

.

[midnight wyvern]

!!!

[void dragon]

What so me stabbing them is irrelevant? All this time they ded because they get Keled?

My life is a lie

[fair shale]

Where do people ask around for havocs in this server, is there like a lfg im missing

[calm shard]

I just use the party finder in game :)

als yes there is a lfg you're missing

#vox-lfg-lexicanum

those guys

[fair shale]

Thank you

[sharp hamlet]

Big Mood pal.

[fair shale]

Its not going well

[sharp hamlet]

You just gotta get lucky with the tinder system that is the party-finder

[meager echo]

maybe you should play psyker / ogryn. Those 2 are instant accept in my server. People favortie.

[faint beacon]

Oh no me and @grand perch Literally won the H34

it just fucking error'd in the scoreboard

and demoted us

Actual Bullshit

[sharp hamlet]

I know pal, Big Mood.

[fair shale]

Instant accept doesn't matter, I want to climb, not be instantly accepted

Ime people dont care what class you are, they care what icon/border/title you have on

[meager echo]

they are pretty much main dps in every lobbies man.

[sharp hamlet]

At the end of the day, high havoc is just gambling on whether the director will throw the kitchen sink at you or not

[tall torrent]

Psyker is far above the rest
Vet is closest to top 2 overall atm
But between top 2 and top 5 there’s not a huge difference in power

[fair shale]

We love triplets!

[tall torrent]

Nah ogryn not as good as vet rn outside of rumbler cringe

[sharp hamlet]

LET’S GO GAMBLING!!!11one

[red robin]

https://tenor.com/view/wonder-of-true-wonder-of-u-true-truth-jojolion-gif-7634183602041154400

melee vet rightside of talent tree insanity

[void dragon]

Has sparkhead became to tanky? Don't think it's damage has been changed, right?

[sharp hamlet]

5 bosses in the first 5 minutes of a run was my record

[tame lodge]

Weapon
Blessings
Scab Captain with Bolt Pistol

[meager echo]

numbers wise maybe ogyrn see a minor down in performance, but taunt + skull crusher + thunderous mk3 is way too good for anything.

straight up delete boss with that combo debuff

[red robin]

Enemy psyker with headpop that is unavoidable dmg that insta kills when hp is lower than 100

[tame lodge]

Well

[fair shale]

It ain't even the bosses ime(unless its twins), like I'll take 5 plogryns or cspawns over any level of "hey thats a plasma gunner platoon" in havoc

[tame lodge]

There's renegade_psyker

[red robin]

monkaS

[fair shale]

Hell I'll take 5 burgles if the team knows how to dodge

[sharp hamlet]

Twins are fine, just gotta curbstomp the Rinda cosplayer fast.

[fair shale]

First rule of dark heresy, geek the psyker first

Second rule of dark heresy

Throw more grenades

[void dragon]

Plague casters incoming?

[eternal venture]

That happened to me yesterday

[mortal aspen]

Blightstormers

teleports out of bounds
-nothing personnell, loyalist

[tame lodge]

It's a scab

[fair shale]

Blightstormers but make it pox gas

[tame lodge]

Renegade is scab

[red robin]

do yall think the scab radio operator is going to be added as a specialist in a future patch? or are they just for that event

[fair shale]

What would a scab radio operator do

[calm shard]

so ogryn better is what I'm hearing

[sharp hamlet]

Call in 500 specialists

[void dragon]

This DH looking jerks will have flak as armour?

[fair shale]

Buddy thats just havoc

[sharp hamlet]

But they’ll call in 500 more pal

[red robin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTEE96AdW54

[fair shale]

Radio operator calls in a traitor valk boss fight

[red robin]

was in an event 4 months ago

[sharp hamlet]

Would be kinda cool actually

[eternal venture]

H40s tend to spawn fewer modifiers, too

for some reason

[latent thistle]

If i didn't want to run Power Sword, Knife, or Dueling Sword - what is the next best in line option

or couple options

[fair shale]

People have told me Hav 30 rot armor is worse than 40

[sharp hamlet]

Shovel

[red robin]

shock maul, shovel, chainsword are fun options

[latent thistle]

ill give it a shot, thanks

[tall torrent]

Damage got better than before

[sharp hamlet]

From the stories I’ve been hearing, I’m so glad I never have to run the Havoc gauntlet again

[fair shale]

Ill tell you it ain't even worth trying rot armor is what I'm learning

[eternal venture]

Havoc is a lot harder than the previous season for a number of reasons

[void dragon]

Golly, that's scary

[tame lodge]

Possibly
Although I expect a better headgear

[sharp hamlet]

Thammer goes bonk pal

[tame lodge]

Maybe even half a gasmask

[fair shale]

Kinda neat ig? Dunno how i actually feel about it

[eternal venture]

• Gold armor has less uptime, and people crutched on it last season

[meager echo]

Just avoid rotten armour if you play pubs, more crushers is disaster recipe.

[fair shale]

Dont like playing zealot

Dont even have one levelled rn

[eternal venture]

Rotten Armor also makes crushers scale like crazy in H30+

[sharp hamlet]

Play zealot pal, is fun.

[eternal venture]

AND it crashes the game right now

[fair shale]

Ive tried

I like every class but zealot

[eternal venture]

Basically if you didn't have a good group to climb with in the first night or two, you are going to have a fun (rough) time climbing right now

[tall torrent]

force greatsword VI with 25DD + SG is the only non-meme build to beat power sword VI in boss dps I think

[eternal venture]

Lots of people still haven't adjusted to the new meta

and less gold toughness to go around means you need to play cleaner

[sharp hamlet]

Sounds like pure suffering, glad I’m out

[meager echo]

Old meta work just fine man, it's even more important in new havoc.

[void dragon]

Is perfectionist now meta for Psyker?

[eternal venture]

Also lots of people are trying havoc for the first time, though that's new every season

[red robin]

3x 4% combat ability cd on curios worth it now with cd talent nerfs? or still not worth the curio slot

[eternal venture]

It's funny because the new meta is basically the old meta but stricter and harder to play

You just need more armor-piercing now

[meager echo]

this is pub h31, old meta in hongkong

hard map, 19mins run

literally constantly running forward

book, taunt, bubble and smoke

[tall torrent]

yea obv

[calm shard]

certified rotten armor+stimms moment

[sharp hamlet]

Miss my book spam bleed/crit build though

Bookmaxxing goes brrr

[tall torrent]

I think not as good as before overall
worth running on vet maybe

[calm shard]

hell yeah one of the weakest zealot builds isn't possible anymore?

nice

zealot rework goated

[tall torrent]

but I don't run it on vet anymore

I run stam regen rate x2 in its place

[sharp hamlet]

Meh, it kept my groups alive, all I care about.

Was a boring walking sim though, but hey, free 40 crate each week

[meager echo]

that run is stim and moebian.

[tall torrent]

toughness / health / stamina
toughness x3
gunner DR x3
stam regen rate x2
rez speed / docket x2
is what I run for vet rn

[red robin]

so with infiltrate, is the 2 charges worth it? or is it like a self nerf now

[tall torrent]

I think if I drop the stamina curio for toughness then I might consider CDR

[eternal venture]

tfw guy who hasn't played havoc before joins a H32

if this were any other game

[tall torrent]

infil itself not worth rn tbh lol

[willow prairie]

using infiltrate is self nerf

[eternal venture]

I'd be happy to teach this guy the ropes

but my dumb rank is at stake and instead I'm just annoyed

this stupid system has got to go

[red robin]

so shout vet still has the better mileage eh

[tall torrent]

exe / voc better

exe good now

[eternal venture]

It used to be more worth it when Tactical Awareness was stronger last patch

[calm shard]

cooldown on that shit is way too long

[hollow ibex]

Nah

It’s a sidegrade

That you have to pay for lmfao

[eternal venture]

because you'd reset your stealth cd constantly with overwatch

But Infil is just straight-up outclassed in Havoc, if that's what you're interested in running

[red robin]

also quick question, if i had max toughness possible on vet, 270+ something, if shout increased it by +50, would that big chunk of toughness be good for giving team toughness via born leader?

[hollow ibex]

Kinda on the fence about that because frag infil is legit super fucking powerful

[eternal venture]

VoC is the safer pick most of the time

And it's much easier to play

[void dragon]

All this time people telling me that it's not needed but now ObeseFish has to come and make it meta, time to train in the perfectionist ways

[eternal venture]

You mean with the baked-in 30% damage buff now?

Hadn't thought about that actually

Think the cooldown is the main thing holding it back honestly, along with the general lack of utility and killy potential that the other two ults bring

[tall torrent]

it's up when u need that dmg

[meager echo]

Just take smoke + voc. I notice that people can not handle boss fast enough in pubs. Pick smoke to hold in bad position longer.

[warm schooner]

smoke is by far the blitz I had the most success in climbing to 40 with

so many people just getting gunned down by plasma or just bad positioning in general

[calm shard]

yeah there's a reason shit ass randos are completely dependent on bubble psykers

because they just do not know how to take cover

smokes help with that since they're bubble 2.0

[warm schooner]

bubble but better

[meager echo]

Now that they add the plasma gunner, best strat is just to avoid rotten armour due to increase crusher spawn and take smoke for plasma gunners.

Just fish good modifier, don't brute force.

[austere mica]

Smoke grenades stay winning

[fair shale]

I think constant bubble psyker rots brains too

Like once you acclimatize, yk?

[meager echo]

No bubble = hard BoN man. I doubt pubs party can handle that.

[calm shard]

the so called "hard beast of nurgle" when I introduce it to my vraks infantry autogun

[fair shale]

BoN is simply kiting, idk

Then again most people can't kite a DH either

[meager echo]

What if they spawn with twins ?

[fair shale]

Figure it out

[void dragon]

Bubble is hard cover that works as an arena, but people just don't use it, at that point I wonder if isn't it better to have twice the shields?

[fair shale]

My unironic answer is to have 2 people take twins and take for a sec cause BoN pops easy tho

[sharp hamlet]

Curbstomp the Rinda cosplayer immediately

Worry about the other bosses after

[meager echo]

we are talking about pubs party, not well coordinated pre-made.

[calm shard]

yeah melee twin is a pain in the ass

[fair shale]

Im ngl the QoL when you have 2 bubble psykers and you can walk through domes the whole game is there

[calm shard]

gotta kill them first

[void dragon]

More evidence that ppl don't know/don't want to take cover

[sharp hamlet]

You guys don’t communicate in pubs? They can be just as coordinated as a discord group

[void dragon]

Even if the cover walks to them

[meager echo]

No

they speak mandarin

I use google translate to see what they are talking.

[sharp hamlet]

Skill issue

Jk

[meager echo]

Best I can do is, yes, no, thank you and sometimes wc.

[void dragon]

They understand WC? Peak communication

[fair shale]

I should really finish leveling my psyker

I should just be the bubble inferno psyker

[void dragon]

I should probably use it to rank Havocs more If the class is as strong as ppl say

[fair shale]

A good inferno psyker is so boring to play with

"I hate the dog, the dog kills things its boring" have you played this game this a good inferno staff psyker

[void dragon]

Reason why mine is a wall shield with BB EP

[fair shale]

Sir please, a crumb of murder

I genuinely think wall shield is fine

[sharp hamlet]

Just let em cook and collect the reward crate pal that’s what I did as book bot the last three seasons.

Don’t look a gift psyker in the mouth, or something like that.

[fair shale]

Yeah you right

[meager echo]

there is the easy way to grind h40, and the fun way to grind h40. Pick your poison man.

[sharp hamlet]

Easy way, every time.

Don’t have time for pointless suffering

[fair shale]

There is also the Og 4 stack, which is both easy and p fun

There's just something innately whimsical about 4 Og comps

[calm shard]

@tall torrent how would you run havoc exe vet

my immediate thought would be something like this with infantry auto and power sword

[void dragon]

If you look there is a chance that you find a warp Demon inside

[sharp hamlet]

That’s why I always bring my thammer pal

[hybrid plover]

I wanna try knife double barrel exe stance in havoc

Did over 1m damage last night o a scab melee lol

Or even accatran flechette tbh

[orchid hemlock]

Is competitive urge buffed? 🤔

[hybrid plover]

Tbh I usually think Rodin wannabe is worse

That's why I started using smokes to begin with

But then again, using that means you can just tunnel down Rindidn't a lot easier since he just stands there menacingly.

[void dragon]

Honestly the Evis has been amazing at boss busting, had a game with 2 Zealot's soloing bosses and they could tear down any monstrosity that showed it's face

It was amazing

[sharp hamlet]

Lmao.

[lunar walrus]

best grenade?

[red portal]

honestly

kraks

[calm shard]

it's very strong

[red portal]

i feel no shame about this now

[austere mica]

Smokes

[hybrid plover]

Smokes becoming the best grenade because of one enemy.

Thanks Fatshark.

[austere mica]

That was mostly a joke because I'm biased

[hybrid plover]

I genuinely think they are.

Because all the other grenades, you can actually make up purely by having the means and skill to deal with what they can provide.

[void dragon]

I still believe in smokes as the best nade

Because team hates taking cover

[orchid hemlock]

Always has been 😈

[hybrid plover]

You don't need frags to pull off horde clear. And you don't need kraks to kill armor.

But Smokes provide a kind of utility against ranged fire that you can't really replicate except by playing bubble psyker

[void dragon]

Even then bubble doesn't last that much vs the kind of danger smokes can nullify for a long time

And bubble is more about the toughness regen with gunner safety, so more of a rushing tool for melee combat that anything

[hybrid plover]

Hell why would I even need frags when I can just run a double barrel and get virtually the same result if not better

Not to say there isn't a reason to cuz, not every weapon can do that kind of spread out damage but it's the fact that there are ways to handle what the grenades can with just your regular kit.

[orchid hemlock]

Frag is still a useful CC tool

Even for bosses

[void dragon]

"Because you want cc, a ranged weapon to counter snipe like helbores, because rushing too hasty is a good way to die" just some of the reasons

The AOE cc is a big plus on them

Not to mention the infinite cleave

[hybrid plover]

It does just come down to what you bring and what nade will complement it best too

[void dragon]

The nades feel balance, JOY!

[hybrid plover]

Also.

Smokes are the least intensive grenade to take on tree

Imho

Don't need grenadier, tinkerer or demo

[orchid hemlock]

I feel like tinkerer make it better

[hybrid plover]

So you can stretch your points a little further

[orchid hemlock]

Frag doesn't benefit from tinker

[hybrid plover]

Better. But I don't think it's necessary at all to have it.

[orchid hemlock]

Isn't having more duration pretty useful?

[hybrid plover]

It's nice to have though.

[blazing jetty]

Tinkerer lets frags cover about 56% more ground surface area

[hybrid plover]

Yes. But I've never actually felt a real need to have that extra duration since I don't try to stay in one place for too long but rather use the nades as a means to get to another means of cover.

15s is usually enough for me to do that.

And tinkerer competes with a lot of really good nodes

[blazing jetty]

Are smokes useful in any way against melee enemies?

[hybrid plover]

They do a light stagger

Not much though

[fair shale]

They dont do the running attack lunge type melee through them, iirc dogs wont jump through em either

[blazing jetty]

I see

[tall torrent]

exe helbore + krak prob

[fair shale]

Smokes set your engagement range, and everything that comes with that.

[orchid hemlock]

What melee would you use if you didn't have WS but some of the bottom right nodes? 🤔

[midnight wyvern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/691960467790233662.gif?size=96

[tall torrent]

tac axe

[orchid hemlock]

Rashad's little brother? 😈

[tall torrent]

rashad without WS I kinda wouldn't bother

I don't run rashad atm cuz dps not as good as power sword VI

but rashad is very good

[orchid hemlock]

It's always PS

Which mark and perks? 🤔

[tall torrent]

I just haven't figured out a good way to run it that wouldn't be as good (if not better) with PS6

[tall torrent]

wat

[orchid hemlock]

Tac

On Zealot it was mk7 with unarmored/flak

[tall torrent]

mk7

unarmored + smth

idk

[bitter turtle]

the crusher buff makes rashad a little feelsbad to use compared to ps6 now imo

takes like what

a good4 or 5 hits?

[tall torrent]

4 on hybrid build

5 on a ranged build

which is not great

[bitter turtle]

yea kinda feelsbad

[tall torrent]

but I run krak on exe helbore so it's not "that bad" overall

[bitter turtle]

im honestly

doing krak on almost every build now

[tall torrent]

but at the same time rashad is not as high defense as tac axe

[bitter turtle]

crushers getting more hp + kraks getting massively buffed

[tall torrent]

even power sword?

[bitter turtle]

yeah

not really necessarily for crushers in this case but

[tall torrent]

idk I still run frag on 2 builds

exe boltgun and hybrid power sword

[bitter turtle]

throw it on boss to stun, then delete boss with stabbo

its actually why i do it on exec bolter too

[hollow ibex]

Yeah and with skirmisher and CQKZ that’s nearly 80 percent bonus damage on frags and bleed

[bitter turtle]

stun and then exec unload

[tall torrent]

I'm too lazy to make krak versions of frag builds

[austere mica]

Build

Pretend you can see always prepared

Cutlass and bistol

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-look-gary-there-i-am-that's-me-i'm-on-tv-on-tv-gif-5838881544199682423

[tall torrent]

wats rending for on falchion

[austere mica]

Oh right toughness can bridge now

[tall torrent]

why no skirmisher

[unborn perch]

Does Desperado also increase attack speed?

[austere mica]

Oh its on slides now

I missed that

[tall torrent]

no, only trench fighter drill and weapon specialist

[austere mica]

Ok I dropped agile for it

[tall torrent]

nah keep both

u can drop the 25 TGH node on right side tbh

[unborn perch]

So when it says +25% melee finesse, it only increases the crit portion of the finesse stat despite the finesse stat including attack speed?

[austere mica]

Right I pathed around that

[tall torrent]

finesse normally is only weakspot, crit and crit-weakspot dmg

only finesse stat on weapon card may affect atk speed

[unborn perch]

I see

[hybrid plover]

Hot take maybe

Vet rlly doesn't need toughness nodes anymore

At least as things currently stand

[bitter turtle]

you can get the +25 toughness on middle tree and swap the one on right tree for skirmisher

[austere mica]

Discord users when they have to scroll down to see if they're repeating things

[unborn perch]

If you had to choose between desperado or competitive urge, which one would you take? Desperado?

[bitter turtle]

desperado

[hybrid plover]

Desperado

1000x over

[bitter turtle]

do people

actually even take comp urge?

[hybrid plover]

It's nice if you can fit it

But there's better choices

[unborn perch]

Kinda sucks it only works on base damage though

[hybrid plover]

That's literally the best part of it