veteran-class

[desert valve]

It's a jack of all trades.

I like it.

[hollow ibex]

i hope they unfuck the blessings

or tune the weapon a bit

but i'll take it just for flavor

[torn root]

they wont

want it to be a vet adjacent relic blade

which it is XD

let it sit on the shelf

[hybrid plover]

Its worse tbh

[torn root]

yeah pretty much

[hybrid plover]

Relic blade is actually good for what it is.

I feel they tried to make this a sorta safer, more mobile but weaker power sword but ended making the damage a little too lackluster to justify everything else.

[desert valve]

The Falchion is a bit scuffed, yeah.
But it's otherwise decent.
Won't be bringing it to any Auric missions, but I'll have fun with it in Maelstrom.

[tall torrent]

I think vet top 3 melee rn are power sword VI, rashad and tac axe VII
falchion maybe 4th? cuz the other options aren't as good as falchion (DS and knife aren't rly melee centric)

[agile mango]

anyone have a helbore build?

[hybrid plover]

You can at least toe down with crushers with relic

[desert valve]

https://tenor.com/view/magnus-the-red-incorrect-magnus-tts-gif-27530551

[hybrid plover]

Even if it might not be the best.

[torn root]

p.sword will never not be good just slightly less fun 🙂

[agile mango]

knife is really good still

[tall torrent]

yea

knife is very good

[desert valve]

It's Power Sword, Rashad, Chainaxe.

[tall torrent]

it's not rly a melee focus weapon tho

[desert valve]

Knife is a close 4th, I'll give it that.

[torn root]

fatshark took away my ToD

[hybrid plover]

I'll be real, the changes have made knife actually more viable to me as a proper melee focused weapon

[torn root]

now i actually am using my gun more XD

[hybrid plover]

At least in my honest opinion.

[tall torrent]

chainaxe buff this patch was ok but not enough to push it to top tier

[agile mango]

it's unreal

[desert valve]

If you give it serrated you can stack ungodly amounts of Bleed.

[hybrid plover]

Nah, only 16

BUT

Mercy killer is now a genuinely viable choice.

And it's really good.

[agile mango]

mercy killer and uncanny really lets you dismantle crushers

[hollow ibex]

you don't even need MK to delete crushers

because of how damage juiced vet melee is now lol

[covert fable]

Now that serrated is not a tax

This tree is really nice

[desert valve]

I use Mercy Killer on my knife.

I call it the "Londonium Special"

[agile mango]

what keystone do we use for helbore now?

[desert valve]

Unless I want to get goofy and stick Precognition & Ripost on my knife.

[hollow ibex]

FT or MMF

[tall torrent]

marksman's focus

[split grove]

Is exe stance buffed

I havent explored vet

[agile mango]

is it fine dropping exploit weakness on helbore?

also, one motion or longshot?

[heavy rover]

for helbore? probably longshot imo

[gentle yoke]

Man did the helbore suck this much before? Feels even slower than I remember

[spark helm]

Very. toughness regen, innate suppression immunity, ogryn node extends the duration

[hybrid plover]

Honestly though, I've been using executor on knife for the extra cleave

[hollow ibex]

wat it was waaaay worse before

[hybrid plover]

Feels really good.

[hollow ibex]

both preferably

[gentle yoke]

Idk maybe it’s my build but I’m having bad luck with it sometimes

[tall torrent]

depends

for most weapons I'd say longshot

[gentle yoke]

Also using the llla version

[agile mango]

helbore

[split grove]

I can exe stance boltgun and kill ogryns

[bitter turtle]

is shattering puncture on the new bolter a meme or actually good

[agile mango]

also, is exploit weakness too good to drop if I'm going helbore?

[hybrid plover]

Meme

Doesn't really fire fast enough to make much of a difference

[fathom wedge]

Is a mod doing this or

[bitter turtle]

what do you actually run on it then

[hollow ibex]

numeric UI

turn off the ammo gained counter

[bitter turtle]

cause i like how it handles

a lot more

[gentle yoke]

I think the thing stopping my helbore from being better is skill at this rate. Used to be goated with it

[tall torrent]

I run surgical + PF now

[desert valve]

How the actual fuck did you manage this?

[bitter turtle]

perks?

[tall torrent]

unyielding carapace

[hollow ibex]

wait why surgical 🤔

[tall torrent]

marksman's focus

[hollow ibex]

i guess i gotta try MMF first

see whether it's tolerable now

[tall torrent]

puncture doesn't change shots to kill that much

cuz it outright 1 taps most things

[gentle yoke]

Marksman focus or focus target? I like both but mostly use focus target

[spark helm]

You always could but it'll be more immediately lucrative yeah.

[wraith lion]

What is Shredder good for, it doesn't really seem to do severe damage or stagger to kill feed enemies

[spark helm]

It's also just easier to pump up your vet with huge quality of life talents from before earlier and at free to lower costs.

[gentle yoke]

Just gonna double barrel shotgun it

[lone plover]

Heyo, never really messed with Plasma Gun before, what's the dump stat on it?

[hollow ibex]

general purpose horde deletion and stagger

[torn root]

wwwwwhorde clear

[hollow ibex]

shredders are very strong btw...

[spark helm]

I mean, you can especially at higher levels but it's more for general horde clear, explosive cc in the moment and all that and its bleed if you just can't get to certain enemies sooner

[heavy rover]

the grenades? combine with Out for Blood and Born Leader, then toughness regen for team go brrrrrrr

[gentle yoke]

Is double barrel actually good at all or just a meme weapon?

[torn root]

the only thing shredder does is kill no armour adds

[hollow ibex]

very strong

[tall torrent]

MF is a stronger keystone atm for ranged
FT has better pathing

[gentle yoke]

I just like FT because it helps me headshot more frequently

[spark helm]

Shredder can kill most gunners after some ticks. Plus, having a grenade like that for that purpose as a case use is genuinely fantastic.

Plenty of things that can get mixed on those hordes that take some generous damage while also just being told to sit down .

[lone plover]

What's the dump stat for Plasma?

[gentle yoke]

I got my dump stat for stopping power but idk myself

[hollow ibex]

@tired egret

[hollow ibex]

stopping power is literally never the dump stat because it directly impacts damage

[analog yacht]

am I crazy or is "every build the same" not that much better than before. like

[spark helm]

There was some super specific spread but I take charge rate for my dump stat. Not gonna spend the dockets for hoping that brunt gives me a nicer roll. Unsure if that stat spread is still going to even matter.

[analog yacht]

the good talents/bad talents in vet tree are mostly unchanged but now you just get to take all the good ones

idk you still did that anyway pre-patch

but like large swathes of the tree are still not worth touching

[hollow ibex]

uhhh

i mean vet could already use a second rework

but this tree is objectively a massive upgrade

[spark helm]

I mean, if you're only going to making generalist builds then naturally that's going to mean just taking strong talents that support that playstyle. That's kind of the crux of "every build" kind of thinking usually.

[bitter turtle]

im not using voc so

[calm shard]

here's my builds :)

the like meta stuff is still there for vet

but deviant off-meta builds got a lot stronger

[gentle yoke]

What’s the weapons for right one?

[hollow ibex]

why is infil censored

[calm shard]

las weapons what do you think

[spark helm]

pfft

[covert moat]

whats the dump stat for the new power melee?

[gentle yoke]

Well just wondering trying to setup my helbore rn

[analog yacht]

yeah I mean you can take different grenades etc. and not get locked into horrible talent chains so that's a plus

[hollow ibex]

mobility

[covert moat]

thank you

[calm shard]

if I was gonna use helbore with the gun one I would drop killzone for one motion

[analog yacht]

I guess my point of pain is just that the gap between good/bad talents is still massive

[hollow ibex]

i can actually afford to take quality of life talents now, like reload speed

[analog yacht]

it's just easier to dodge the bad talents now

[spark helm]

The ways that the tree can be split now just genuinely lets you load up on what you couldn't before and that's genuinely huge for vet which has pretty stable and impactful talents that happen earlier.

[calm shard]

skirmisher is probably going to replace BID permanently in my builds xd

I dodge slide a lot

and it's so much damage

[spark helm]

Only "bad" talents are probably still like competitve urge or something but I haven't even bothered with it.

[hollow ibex]

new skirmisher is insane

[hollow ibex]

comp urge isn't bad

[calm shard]

yeah competitive urge is okay

[hollow ibex]

it was only bad before because of positioning

[bitter turtle]

@tall torrent is surgical actually worth? the only thing i dont outright kill in one shot is crusher

[hollow ibex]

the talent itself was ok

[bitter turtle]

and it doesnt give me a 2shot

even if i crit

[desert valve]

I love Comp Urge

[bitter turtle]

unless i also have marksman up

[desert valve]

I love gambling to get a damage crank

[bitter turtle]

and crit both shots

[calm shard]

that sounds like GOOD ODDS TO ME

[spark helm]

Where do people use it? Genuinely curious because the little on ranged kill support talents are fun on paper but fell off with me quickly back then.

[tall torrent]

Crit body shots are quite a bit better than regular bodyshots

[calm shard]

fun on paper but like fuck am I killing something near a teammate every 3 seconds

and I shoot my gun so goddamn much that I run out of ammo with reciprocity+survivalist+deadshot xd

[spark helm]

I was thinking of playing around soon and just turning the recon lasgun into a utility dispenser ray for myself and other people.

[calm shard]

would be better if it was teammates near you or in coherency or smth

[spark helm]

Maybe some safe melee or whatever.

[calm shard]

and also not 3 seconds

[spark helm]

I can just force the position needed, Most of the time people are at the very least one corner away from me most of the time.

And I like that they merged natural born leader with charismatic.

[hollow ibex]

still not taking it

[spark helm]

Too bad, I'm gonna. :Y

[hollow ibex]

it's competing with demo team now

(and doing a very bad job at it)

[spark helm]

I'm greedy and stubborn, no talent is competing in my builds typically. If I want it in there, I'm putting it on.

Imma slap it on.

And shoot my angry laser gun.

[calm shard]

consider

smokes do not benefit much from demo team

due to their extremely long duration

[hollow ibex]

yeah if i was running smokes

[calm shard]

is there a prticular reason you wouldn't be

[junior grail]

I can't believe I've actually ran out of Diamantine

[hollow ibex]

same reason i don't run bubble in auric

don't need em

[calm shard]

I should go into new mortis trial as grneade spam vet running smokes

and gamble my entire livelihood on electric smoke showing up

[hallow cove]

electric smoke should be the tinker for smoke tbh

[calm shard]

if you take my double duration smoke I'll probably wither away

[hallow cove]

just run demo team like the rest of us

[calm shard]

no

[frank basin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/437863525965365249/1420117227696427008/image0.png?ex=68d43abb&is=68d2e93b&hm=949e2fbd9677fd3b21a339e52bd5cb68abda1d7a56f944d2d2d4909e33e5d3cf&

[frail citrus]

new weapon dropped, you know what that means!!

my inventory is about to be greener than grass

[untold nymph]

I neee a stealth build

Or infiltrate build

[gilded wraith]

We have the single worst implementation of CDR talent in the game now. Bruiser is also the "you or an Ally" as well. I need uptime running, but if you told me that we have 50% less Tactical Awareness uptime than a similar skill Psyker with Psykinetic's Aura I would not be suprised. Changing TA to the new format without tweaking the trigger condition was a pretty big FU to Shout that sadly catches Infiltrate as collateral damage.

[sharp epoch]

At least zealot got some compensation by adding the CDR to the abilities themselves, but veteran really just got shafted there

[untold nymph]

Or a executioners stance build

[gilded wraith]

Ex-Stance technically has something baked in, but Infiltrate just got hosed.

[hollow ibex]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9e1f05dc-6162-4d02-8a5d-ceb865e4f69a/infil-fragger

try this

[hollow ibex]

yeah i'm prob going to start maining ES now

infil just keeps getting cucked

[harsh geyser]

The vigilant autogun feels

weird

[hollow ibex]

i mained infil

but don't think i'll bother anymore

[gilded wraith]

I have a hard time believing that no one on the dev team or in testers pool noticed how much worse the TA was verse the psyker and ogryn versions, so probably just straight anti-shout choices they slide in there.

[harsh geyser]

on one hand it 1 shots like most enemies

the other.. the moment a rager or a any flak armored enemy gets in your face, youre fucked

[gilded wraith]

I went ahead and reported it as a bug just to be contrary.

[halcyon blaze]

First Power Falcion I bought and consecrated, haven't done any leveling up with it yet but I got lucky with the randomised blessings.

[harsh geyser]

the burst fire marks doesnt feel great at all

the single shot one feels way better

[hollow ibex]

wdym

the burst marks slap

[eternal venture]

Sadly Infil is the one out I see in a havoc match and think “I know you know you’re griefing, but I’ll let it slide unless we wipe three times”

[bitter turtle]

infil basically got nerfed so

[eternal venture]

Even Shroudfield before the buffs could be justified with a bonk build

[untold nymph]

Oh

[eternal venture]

And now Shroudfield is better than ever

[untold nymph]

Great

[hollow ibex]

shit like this is why i keep saying vet already needs another rework

[untold nymph]

I probably should find an executioners build

[eternal venture]

According to one of the playtesters (Cole), you’re supposed to use it with the ranged backstab talent

[bitter turtle]

it was punished for the sins of voc

[eternal venture]

The new talent tree is WAY better than before

[bitter turtle]

i mean sure, i can see how that can work

[hollow ibex]

true....

[eternal venture]

But infil got left in the dust

[bitter turtle]

but relatively speaking it got weaker

compared to the ot her options

cus it didnt really get anything unique to it besides surprise attack being baked in

which is like

ok

[marble mantle]

Could I run knife on this instead

[eternal venture]

And both infil and shout got indirect nerfs through tac awareness getting nerfed

[bitter turtle]

but the cd nerf hurts it the most

[hollow ibex]

yeah knife works

[marble mantle]

What should I run on it? Perks and such

[eternal venture]

Wouldn’t be surprised if one of the major goals this patch was “Too many people are completing H40s, we need to nerf gold toughness generation without actually nerfing gold toughness”

[eternal venture]

Oh definitely

You could give it more buffs and it still wouldn’t be as useful as the other two ults

[hollow ibex]

cara/flak + uncanny + FT/lacerate/riposte/precog/mercy killer

[eternal venture]

By a long shot (hah)

[hollow ibex]

your choice

[eternal venture]

I actually don’t know how you’d buff Infiltrate. Drop the cooldown to 30s, for one

45 seconds (longer with Overwatch) is just too much for how little impact it brings

[hallow cove]

make 90% threat reduc baseline

[eternal venture]

Like sure, you get some bonus damage and an aoe suppress when you leave stealth. But Exe does the former better, and VoC does the latter better

[harsh geyser]

I feel like Im putting more than half my clip in a specialist head

[eternal venture]

That would be a good start imo, though I think some people like the option to take it because they don’t like dumping aggro on teammates

[harsh geyser]

for it to die

lol

[hallow cove]

dumping aggro on my team is what i live for

[eternal venture]

Same

[harsh geyser]

seeing my team rush forward while I got 2 mauler 1 trapper on my ass :(

[eternal venture]

I think Infil needs to give massive single target damage like Shroudfield if it wants to compete with the other ults imo

Problem is, new Exe Stance already pumps your damage

[analog yacht]

I didn't notice at first when reading patch notes but tac awareness nerf is pretty huge

even ignoring that it happens over time so stacking kills doesn't benefit, I mean

[hallow cove]

they could focus on the movement of infil, make you a speed demon I guess

[analog yacht]

100% for 3 seconds is half the benefit of 6s

wait it might be bugged to be even worse than that

[hollow ibex]

should one tap most specialists

[analog yacht]

yeah it's only taking ~2 seconds off per kill lol

crazy nerf

[paper salmon]

Beeg Iron yeehaw vet time!

[gilded wraith]

Enjoy your 30% damage... don't mind us as we take 30% of your ability uptime.

I'm blind, where did they move the ability that gives toughness for not getting hit?

[analog yacht]

it looks like it gives 1 second off once per second while you have the buff but it expires right before you'd get the third tick

[hybrid prawn]

well its very OP im suprised it took more than 1 year for nerf

[gilded wraith]

And the proc conditions are significantly crappier than the Ogryn and Psyker counterparts.

[hollow ibex]

now it's nerfed to the fucking ground lol

[analog yacht]

yeah 200% nerf + it doesn't stack is like

idk one or the other why both lol

unusable talent now

[gilded wraith]

Yeah, fine with the CRD change... but for fooks sake, rework the trigger condition.

[analog yacht]

idk you have to take it on the way to +25t and bring it down so like, you still take it ig

[gilded wraith]

Just add "or ally in coherency" and your instantly at Ogryn talent levels

Still way below the Psyker Aura, but what else is new.

[analog yacht]

or make it work on elites or something

i mean it's in the middle tree so coherency special kills would make the most sense

[gilded wraith]

Yeap, either Elites AND Specialist, or Specialist and Allies... or you know, the psyker version would be nice.

[gilded wraith]

That's actually what I sent in in the bug report.

[hollow ibex]

vet second rework when

[hybrid prawn]

this is the third

[analog yacht]

they just need to do a pass on the shit talents at this point, otherwise the tree layout is good I think

like there's not a ton of decision making going on here imo

[hollow ibex]

the middle sucks yeah

field improv/serrated blade/GBITF are all basically taxes

[faint beacon]

Serrated is basically a taxe but its better than the other options imo

[hollow ibex]

prob the least tax-like of the point taxes

but even then lol

[faint beacon]

DOT

I'll take it

extra damage for free basically

[copper parcel]

So I know it's early but do we know what the dump stat is on the power falchion?

[gilded wraith]

If I had 5 requests: Change the trigger condition of TA to include allies, Buff the other two auras, Do something creative with smoke, Just start over with Infiltrate... holy crap, Roll Survivalist and Shock Troop into one ability and make it player only, Come up with another aura in its place.

[hollow ibex]

mobility

[pastel zealot]

does any of you use the +50% weapon swap speed node if using agile engagement/weapon specialist?

[hollow ibex]

not needed on most guns that synergize well with WS

unless you're doing something... interesting like WS helbore lol

[agile mango]

do you guys reckon vet is close to arbites now in strength? the damage seems crazy

[pastel zealot]

im just using rashad axe and recon lasgun

[gilded wraith]

Heck no.

[tame lodge]

The damage always been crazy

[pastel zealot]

not even close lol

[tame lodge]

In fact

Better

Arby's couldn't 1 shot crushers

And still can't

[gilded wraith]

Similar damage, drastically worse crowd control and survivability.

[analog yacht]

i mean even if you stack enough damage to 1 shot like rashad the conditions are more annoying to maintain

[agile mango]

the damage is def higher

[analog yacht]

arbites just gets it for free but we gotta maintain AE and skirmisher

[gilded wraith]

This... they get it for breathing, we have minigames.

Much like tactical awareness currently.

[agile mango]

this whole set of things is crazy

[analog yacht]

don't get me wrong I love the AE minigame, but it's weaker to have to do it

[agile mango]

we have exploit weakness too and skirmisher more or less procs constantly lmao

also, AE is more damage than any one arbites perk

[hybrid plover]

They're not as tanky but their dps potential is crazy now

[agile mango]

and its really easy to proc with most weapons

[hybrid plover]

Vet is good in their own way and that's a good thing.

[gilded wraith]

Tactical Awareness is easy... all you have to do is shoot the specialist, before the dogs get it, the pysker dots get it, the zealot gets it, or the teenager that still has reaction time gets it. See, simple.

[agile mango]

it is that easy tho lol; that's why they nerfed it.

[gilded wraith]

That's actually... not related to how they nerfed it.

The nerf was the cdr modifation, not the trigger event.

[agile mango]

they nerfed tactical awareness because it gave 6 secs everytime you killed a specialist; killing specialists is insanely easy, the trigger event is too easy to proc. that's why they nerfed the payoff.

[gilded wraith]

So matching CDR mod to ogryn and psyker, drastically more restricted trigger conditions.

[hollow ibex]

it's fine that they nerfed it

makes no sense it should be this shit tho

[agile mango]

i agree

[rough adder]

Can I just say this update fucking rocks

[junior grail]

You fucking rock

[rough adder]

Crusher health buff is cool as hell

[agile mango]

i kinda wish it was 200 but TBH i'll take less CDR if it means I get to keep the right bottom tree perks as they are.

[rough adder]

I no longer have to look at 15+ metal chunks that does nothing

And can actually strategically play around them

[gilded wraith]

Ogryn, Psyker, Zealot, Vet all thave the 200% wording and same duration, so that won't change. Best option would be to get the "or ally" qualifier that Psyker and Zealot have tacked on for killing specialists, or in the case of pyskers specialists or elites.

[rough adder]

And my single target stagger special attack actually mean something now

[hybrid plover]

I dunno man. Like I get the concerns around Tactical Awareness and how it relates to Infiltrate but I don't think it being tied solely to specialists is that bad.

[agile mango]

whats your guys pick between executioner stance and shout?

[gilded wraith]

It will not have an uptime close to that of psyker. The math just doesn't work. Also won't have an uptime close to ogryn.

[hybrid plover]

And rather it solely being the vet that has to kill them

[hollow ibex]

ES because shout is boring

[hybrid plover]

If anything

[agile mango]

shout is awesome. it's just that it's all we've had for like 18 months lol.

[hybrid plover]

Maybe a hot take

[rough adder]

And fighting plasma gunners is giving me fond memories of dealing with scab shooter groups on release

[hybrid plover]

I think all the other classes should have the ally kill contingency taken away too.

[floral creek]

Power falchion yay or nay?

[agile mango]

I think ES is about as good as VoC now on the right build

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/meh-mediocre-so-so-kinda-maybe-gif-13935570

[gilded wraith]

I'd be fine with either, so long as it's balance. Though IoD will need a pass as well. Easier to just change TA.

[rough adder]

My biggest gripe with power falchion is it's just a tad bit too short

And the heavies are tad bit too slow

Though that really is the issue of all the sword type weapon it seem

[hybrid plover]

The less people can spam abilities, the better in my honest opinion.

[rough adder]

what is that

[floral creek]

My brain gets confused with button sequences, tagging a fella 6 times and activating and deactivating the bug zapper on the falchion

[gilded wraith]

Fair, I just hate psyker and ogryn getting substantially more cdr... for existing in coherency.

[hybrid plover]

The reason why Tactical Awareness seems so bad in comparison to the other nodes for other classes is because allies can proc the means for the CDR.

[gilded wraith]

Yep.

[turbid ibex]

I agree but removing the ally contingency would prob just feel worse

[tame lodge]

It's uh

Complicated

[lunar sedge]

Honestly I tried falchion with a melee vet and mixed vet for a few games and just got back to PS6

[gilded wraith]

Or in psyker case... they have both elite and specialist, and allies

[tame lodge]

Go for it

[tall torrent]

mid

[lunar sedge]

Getting hit during combo ruins everything and feels awful

[tame lodge]

But expect it to be

[hybrid plover]

Honestly, I don't even think it should be that way if they're trying to go the route of nerfing CDR as a whole

[tame lodge]

Underwhelming

10 months for this shit

I cannot believe it

I just

Can't

[floral creek]

Combat blade still king?

[hybrid plover]

But every class should have a different means of procing their CDR so it doesn't have to overlap

[tall torrent]

power sword still king

[gilded wraith]

I want to test, but my Uptime mod is wonky.

[turbid ibex]

Sure

[agile mango]

yes

[lunar sedge]

There may be more funny stuff with combat blade and easier access to bleed on melee

Need to try it

[rough adder]

wait they can? So if my teammate kills a specialist i get cdr too? I never noticed that

[agile mango]

always pick serrated blade and get mercy killer

[stable socket]

anything that can deal with crushers is probably good, i don't feel the crusher spawn reduction but i definitely feel the health increase

[turbid ibex]

But i do think having the ally contingency just feels better and doesnt lead to situations where a teammate screwed you over unintentionally just for playing the game

[hybrid plover]

That's the thing. Vet has the one CDR talent that doesn't work that way.

[gilded wraith]

Psyker triggers on elite, specilist and allies. Ogryn on elite and allies. Vet only triggers on player specialist kills.

Zealot... apparently triggers repeatedly on everything under the sun.

[hybrid plover]

Nah. Make it that each class has a different requirement to proc the CDR so those classes will know to specifically prioritize those targets.

[gilded wraith]

Lots of overlapping CDR in their rework.

[hybrid plover]

Other than zealot since zealot has their own thing going on with CDR.

[tall torrent]

zealot has best CDR rn

[gilded wraith]

Ohh... CDR proc on ranged crit could be fun symmetry.

[turbid ibex]

Eh idk about that

[lunar sedge]

Literally constant 50% increased CDR when you play Martyrdom properly. Crazy stuff

[turbid ibex]

I feel like it would end up being a bit too restricting on playstyle

[tall torrent]

the best one is pious cutthroat

[gilded wraith]

Yeah, they got both the ability specific cdrs and the best base cdr talent in the game. Good times.

[sharp epoch]

at this point theyre gonna make vet have to headshot specialist to get cdr sob

[gilded wraith]

I think they had more lobbyists 😉

[hybrid plover]

Vet is literally the one that I think is in a decent spot for the direction they're trying to go.

[rough adder]

I mean yeah but making straight comparison for a specific aspect on classes that are fundamentally different isn't really that helpful.
If vet don't get cdr on ally kills maybe it's because vet don't really need that much or they want you to try really hard to kill specialists

[gilded wraith]

Maybe, but I think Infiltrate in H40 as it stands and in the current state of TA will suck ballz.

[tall torrent]

new zealot stealth is quite fun

[hybrid plover]

I mean, it just sucks in general

And kinda always has

[gilded wraith]

I think it was 100% a subtle shout nerf they wanted to sneak past.

[hybrid plover]

I do hope they buff it honestly.

[sharp epoch]

I think ogryn's bruiser and psykers psykinetic aura is fine tbh,

it's just vet is kneecapped for no reason

[gilded wraith]

Same. CDR on stealth kill mechanic for shroudfield is slick.

[gilded wraith]

This... just add allies in coherency. They literally had to comment it out when they copied the Bruiser code for the reworked TA... da fuk...

[faint beacon]

Did a few havocs with PF

its pretty solid

not as good as Taxe now or PS

but its a solid choice

especially paired with shotgun

[gilded wraith]

How did Taxe treat you?

[lunar sedge]

Don't know about havocs as I never tried to bring infiltrate there, but for Aurics it can get the job done. It's weakier right now then other two options, yes, but I find it quite fun and potent in its niche. To some extent

[hybrid plover]

Idk man. I feel like the less ability spam, the better

[faint beacon]

E.Weakness uptime being constant basically

so very good

[gilded wraith]

Nice... trying to figure out what to pair with a las.

[turbid ibex]

Tactical awareness going from flat 6s reduction per proc to giving cooldown regen was already a huge nerf to ability spam

[gilded wraith]

Arbites not having the 200%/3 sec is puzzling in retrospect.

[hybrid plover]

Ye. And admittedly I think every class should just have something equivalent to it.

Vet is the only one that can only proc off of their own kills on that specific target. I'd rather all classes just have a CDR that's more in line with that.

[turbid ibex]

Hell now its at best 3 seconds reduced from each proc if youre not refreshing it

[hybrid plover]

Maybe that's just me being tired of the ability spam fest this game has been for a long time.

[gilded wraith]

Nah, it's a valid view. I'd just like all classes to have roughly simliar CDR uptime.

[turbid ibex]

Again i much prefer having the ally contigency thing because it leads to less moments where a player unintentionally screws over another one because they were just playing the game

[tall torrent]

I think it’s only notably bad for infil

[hybrid plover]

Then make the target different for each class.

[tall torrent]

VoC being as strong as it is getting capped to 15s is fine

And exe stance usually lasts u a while as it ticks CD anyway

[gilded wraith]

Ex-Stance bypasses the mechanic. Infiltrate... feels like it wasn't tested.

[turbid ibex]

So now youre just supposed to completely ignore specialists if youre not veteran?

[hybrid plover]

Who's saying that?

[gilded wraith]

My only old issue with TA, specialists were always a high priority target for any class.

So having 3-4 ranged players could really be noticable on cooldown impact.

[turbid ibex]

If tactical awareness still only works on your own specialist kills, then every time an ally kills an specialist youre losing out on that cdr

[hybrid plover]

It's. Literally always been that way lmao

[turbid ibex]

Yes

[hybrid plover]

Like this doesn't change anything.

[turbid ibex]

And i want this changed

[gilded wraith]

Kind of.. we had the -6 second CD reduction that covered a lot of missed specialist kills.

Much more impactful now to be in competition when you've got the wish.com version of TA.

[serene bough]

Nerfs to CDR will always make me happy

[hybrid plover]

Of course people are still gonna kill specialists that the vet could possibly be killing. While vice versa where vet can be killing elites that other classes could be killing.

But the point is to give those classes an incentive to actively go for those targets while not having any overlap with those particular targets.

[serene bough]

There is no stat i hate more than cdr

[gilded wraith]

As long as you voice the same opinion in the psyker channel, fair enough.

[hybrid plover]

Fact is, if a trapper is going to shoot at a zealot, the zealot will have to kill it.

[turbid ibex]

I dont really see how making those talents ignore kills from allies would be particularly contributing to this

[gilded wraith]

I just don't like the current massive zealot/psyker cdr vs minimal vet cdr.

[hybrid plover]

It would dial back the ability spam meta even more.

[rough adder]

I think that's really a number tuning issue not the issue of ally kill procing cdr

[wispy sluice]

whats the meta now for vet? is it still voice of command and plasma gun? or bolt pistol for the crits?

[hybrid plover]

Or maybe a compromise to have vet have the ally contingency but just dial the number back a bit more across the board.

[gilded wraith]

Zealot aside, I'd rather all three be on ally, or all three be not on ally. The current mix is bs.

[hybrid plover]

For everyone.

[rough adder]

ally kill procing is good in a way because it alleviate the situation of one try hard killing every specials and hog much more cdr than they can use

[sharp epoch]

melee vet and you'll like it

[turbid ibex]

Again the fact stuff like awareness and psykenetic got changed from immediate flat cdr to cooldown regeneration was already a gigantic nerf to ability spam

Psykenetic aura specially since it no longer benefits allies

[rough adder]

Because cdr's purpose for existence was meant to so that you can scale your combat/and sometimes defensive capability based on the amout of threat you are dealing with

[gilded wraith]

Good old Fatshark.. We're going to give each class the exact same CDR base of 200% and 3 seconds. Then they went and gave every class wildly divergent trigger conditions, then tacked Ability specific CDR talents onto things... undoing the baseline they worked hard to create.

[hybrid plover]

Okay to be fair.

Even beyond the CDR issue. Vet is in a pretty darn good spot with how beefed up they are right now.

[gilded wraith]

Just had a Letterkenny moment in my head.

[turbid ibex]

I think the bottom of the tree could def use some more attention

And middle aura still 💤

But other than that

[hybrid plover]

Yeah right now it's kinda hard to look past the bottom right.

[gilded wraith]

I know vet improved, I'm just curious to see how much every other class improved, and whether or not our improvement kept pace with the new havoc difficulty.

[turbid ibex]

Its pretty good

[turbid ibex]

Its more so the pathing

The pathing to the keystones is way too narrow and deep

[gilded wraith]

I hate the three I have to run through across the top of that picture.

[rough adder]

How was the new havoc btw

[gilded wraith]

I just watched a discord stream, but it looked pretty brutal. Not giving it a go until this weekend.

[turbid ibex]

Its 5 points to reach the keystone compared to the other classes where its 2/3 points

[rough adder]

Maybe they want us to pick and choose

[turbid ibex]

While also having nodes that are mandatory to path through to reach a keystone

[rough adder]

Or maybe it's just a transition before the "better" tree and further changes are coming

[turbid ibex]

Fully loaded, awareness, bring it down and desperado

[turbid ibex]

I def expect further changes at some point

The way the post is worded seems to imply zealot was the main focus of the reworks with the psyker and vet reworks being more provisory

[hollow ibex]

psyker already got one rework

and they just got another

fs doesn't even hide how much it plays favorites

[turbid ibex]

Sure but it was a needed rework

[tame lodge]

5 millions dollars to Psyker

🗣️

[hollow ibex]

hardly

and what has happened

again

is that the strongest class

got buffed

again

[sharp epoch]

what arb

[hollow ibex]

arb is braindead

but psyker's the stronger class

[desert valve]

Depends on the weapon you're using.

[rough adder]

Yes finally someone said it
Though I haven't been here long enough

[hollow ibex]

nah it doesn't matter the weapon

arb is just braindead

even with the old and unbuffed chainsword

it was braindead

[desert valve]

It matters immensely because I've seen the most braindead moronic motherfuckers hard-gravitate to certain weapons.

[turbid ibex]

I just think that not being locked out of certain options because of what aura, blitz or ability you chose is a huge plus

[rough adder]

Arb's talent just inflate the stats of every weapon so much it barely matters

[slow sky]

skirmisher is fucking cracked now

[wispy sluice]

dueling sword + spearhead boltgun feels like a pretty good combo

[sharp epoch]

no hordeclear though

[turbid ibex]

The hordeclear is nades

[slow sky]

if its the new boltgun, it has horde clear

[desert valve]

Pair it with Puncture to simply delete Tarpits.

[deep aurora]

"Reworked" dueling sword is good for horde clear

Or just dump three grenades because you have easy access to the fourth grenade perk

[slow sky]

the horde clear is the shovel you bring

on every build

[deep aurora]

Valid choice

[tame lodge]

Horde clear
Shovel

[rough adder]

I fucking love the shovel

[tame lodge]

Pick one

[slow sky]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-funny-cat-ruben-kian-crazy-gif-22431171

[slow sky]

idk what youre talking about

it has horde clear

[hybrid plover]

shovel has never lacked in horde clear

well, one mark does

[rough adder]

it only doesn't seem as good when compared to psword

[fresh mango]

what build should i make for him? vigi autogun or lasgun?

[deep aurora]

Autogun fits his style more, imo

[fresh mango]

does gameslanter have some builds for it already?

[desert valve]

Braced Autogun.

[fresh mango]

any specific mk?

[desert valve]

Go Wild, is my recommendation.

[hollow ibex]

eh it wasn't great either

but with the damage juicing vet got, should be ok

[sand zealot]

what do i have 116 stacks of ? lol

[fresh mango]

thats a mortis trials buff

[sand zealot]

ye

[fresh mango]

gives you +1% crit damage per stack

goes to 250

[sand zealot]

sick, thanks 🙂

[fresh mango]

w/ exe stance and chainsword

[desert valve]

Karker coded.

[lunar sedge]

Did you try buffed vigilants with exe stance?

[fresh mango]

I havent yet, def want to

any suggestions for how to build a vig? tried once a long time ago

[desert valve]

The Two-Shot one with Falter & No Respite can do some funny amounts of damage.

[lunar sedge]

Dunno I just know that you want to aim on head and hit stuff

[fresh mango]

lol true

[hollow ibex]

exec stance, MMF, all the ranged damage boosts

not terribly complicated

[lunar sedge]

I have insane sniping build with bolter and exe stance that I liked before and actually love now with exe buffs. The real downsides is that bolter is ammo hungry and have problems with swarms of regular shooters/stalkers

[desert valve]

Now do it with the Bolt Pistol.

[lunar sedge]

I do wonder if vigilants may fit into something in between

[desert valve]

That thing is a decapitation machine.

[hollow ibex]

vigils are way more ammo efficient yeah

[desert valve]

Although if you're running WS you can just generate your own ammo via Faith in the emperor.

[lunar sedge]

Bolt pistol? Actually I never tried using it as sniping tool, I always used it as grenade buffer/revolver but cooler (Not more powerful tho) and with magazine

[desert valve]

You can slap surgical on it.

And it can get some mean Collateral kills in.

[lunar sedge]

With new mark or old one?

[desert valve]

On Psyker you can apply soulblaze to half the fucking map.

[desert valve]

Old One.

New One isn't great for sniping.

better for Running & Gunning though.

Especially with Puncture.

[distant mural]

Idk the new bolter seems useless to me

What is it even for?

[desert valve]

Have you played BOLTGUN?

[distant mural]

Prolly even worse no?

[desert valve]

You use it the same way as the Bolter in that game.

[fresh mango]

the really karkin good sound effects and umph

[desert valve]

You can also knock Bulwarks on their ass with it.

[distant mural]

I dont like placebo😂

[fresh mango]

my friend its not placebo

[lunar sedge]

Yeah, I figured that much. I glad that they added finishing touch to exe stance continuous stream of buffs. I was enjoying using it before just for the sake of diversity to not stuck on shout, but it feels actually really great now

[desert valve]

^

[paper salmon]

What's the dump stat for Chain Axe?

[desert valve]

The Placebo Effect comes from the fact that you can turn entire groups of specials into spaghetti chunks.

[distant mural]

I mean its less damage and ammo for a bit more explosion range

[desert valve]

Defence if you're running Infiltrate, Mobility if you aren't.

[distant mural]

Bad trade imo

[paper salmon]

God, it almost feels like a deth sentence for a weapon to have BOTH Defense and Moblity

[desert valve]

The Chainaxe is a fun tool

I recommend giving Rev It Up a try, just to awaken your inner Speed Freek.

[lunar sedge]

I don't know about new bolt pistol, but I also at first got a bit disappointed with new bolter on my zealot after dumping it into mixed hordes and getting mediocre results

But I understood that you shouldn't use new mark as an old mark

[desert valve]

Try Puncture & Shattering Impact.

[lunar sedge]

It's very powerful crowd control out of pocket

[desert valve]

The blast applies the effects to all targets hit.

[fresh mango]

what talents reduce spread if there any?

[lunar sedge]

Shoot a group with few shots, let them lie on the ground and decimate with melee

[desert valve]

The new Boltgun pairs very well with the Falchion.

Knock enemies on their ass then Hack 'em apart.

[lunar sedge]

Arguably "But why do I need to get things on ground instead of straight killing them"

[desert valve]

It's called "Crowd Control"

[lunar sedge]

However it's such bigger aoe control coverage on new mark

[desert valve]

And Havoc will teach you why you need CC.

Oh also, have fun with the 21st spawning on Heresy.

Mutant poxers too.

[lunar sedge]

Like much much bigger, it denies entire packs, you just have to finish them off. The one of the real downsides however is almost nonexistent boss burst damage

With burst old bolter it can get respectable even on zealot

[desert valve]

That's why you stick Shattering Impact & Puncture onto it.

Because now they're staggered, bleeding & vulnerable to everything you can throw at them.

I find it's better against Plague Ogryns than my usual bolter because it's got better stagger.

[lunar sedge]

Yes, so new bolter marks is more of are the situational sidearms then proper DPS weapons

[desert valve]

It's both.

Like the Falchion, it's a jack of all trades.

I actually recommend pairing the two.

[lunar sedge]

Master of none

[desert valve]

Which is better than being "Utter dogshit against a fat fuck with heavy armour"

And you can just ragdoll snipers with it.

Then the bleed kills 'em.

[lunar sedge]

It's alright-good, I need to test more of them anyway

But mentality of using new bolters as old ones makes people confused. That was my point

[desert valve]

That's why I recommend adopting the mentality of Malum Caedo.

[lunar sedge]

Still in my opinion they have some cons comparing to old ones. But that's subjective at this point, so whatever

Like em on zealot. Not sure about vet

[desert valve]

It's not as good as the standard boltgun for shredding elites, but it's better in every other regard.

But it excels in handling Bulwarks.

[lunar sedge]

And thanks for blessing tip, as I still was running with blaze away and strength on stagger one

I forgor

[desert valve]

It's now an automatic Grenade Launcher.

Use it as such.

[lunar sedge]

Yeah, pretty interesting

[fresh mango]

other then exe stance, does anything else reduce spread?

[desert valve]

@lunar sedge Or pinning fire instead of Puncture.

Since it's staggering a fuckload of chaff per shot.

[fresh mango]

pinning shot is really good on that bolter

[desert valve]

It is.

But I like being able to tap on a mob of Shotgunners and watch them bleed out on the floor.

Because fuck 'em.

Lets see how they like being stunned & shredded with no warning.

Bastards.

[analog yacht]

it's 2 seconds btw

[analog yacht]

for whatever reason it's discrete 1 second ticks instead of a continuous cdr buff and it doesn't tick on the frame the buff goes away

so you only get 2 seconds

[desert valve]

I hate it when they knock my Ogryn down.

[dapper agate]

We can go up on this spot

[desert valve]

Well, yeah.

[hollow ibex]

first game with the power falchion

very unimpressed

[bitter turtle]

yeah falchion seems kinda meh to me

[jaunty tinsel]

have people found favorite perks for the falchion yet?

[tame lodge]

It's

It's pretty meh

10 months for this shit

Vet needed more melee and we got this shit

It should have been a ranged instead

It wouldn't be so

Underwhelming

[dreamy vortex]

Hopefully they fix it next update or just give us some new shit

[narrow widget]

yo when melta

[dreamy vortex]

They said that they have a bigger update planned for later in the year

Probably for anniversary

[tame lodge]

10 months for this

[austere mica]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/367223355994013698/1391993276105752649/Parentalliverpulsed_23ccac_12592529.gif

[tame lodge]

It's such a good gif

[analog yacht]

I don't wanna be too much of a doomer but with how high quality the relic blade and fgs are I was expecting a bit more

[slow sky]

shovel db has only gotten better in havoc

[tame lodge]

What are those cjk 😭

[analog yacht]

like it's just devils claw but with power sword activation lmao

it even has block frames on special activation

[austere mica]

Relic has that too

[tame lodge]

Yeah that was expected

Considering RB has it

[analog yacht]

that's fair

[austere mica]

I think ps6 has it

[tame lodge]

Uh don't think so

You could block cancel the animation though

[analog yacht]

idk relic blade is just so peak. Not just that it's good but it feels so good to use and the animation work is S tier

[austere mica]

Its fun until it's just kinda boring

Because you evaporate everything

[analog yacht]

yeah i mean usual caveat of something being too strong

but even in that realm I prefer relic blade over rashad arbites

[austere mica]

Why would you play Rashad arbites

That's like the dedicated fun hater build

Besides smyker or something

[gilded wraith]

Is that a pretty standard specialist to elite split for havoc?

[livid hill]

whats the bonus for power falchion sparkly mode vs relic blade sparkly mode

like how much more damage does it do

[tall torrent]

Around the same

[livid hill]

whats the point of it then

[low oar]

THrowing power falchions

[faint beacon]

Was curious how shovel performed cause Shotgun Taxe and Shotgun PF performed extremely well

[slow sky]

uncanny serrated blade was always goated and its only more accessable in this tree

[faint beacon]

Le Crit and Exploit uptime

[slow sky]

and skirmisher and exploit weakness are both global buffs

so it affects dots from serrated and fletchette

[low oar]

I need to relearn that focus target goes to 6 now because i"m just glancing at my buff bar and not seeing the number 8 somewhere

[livid hill]

its basically the power sword from dawn of war that the commissar uses. same shape n stuff

[junior grail]

Isn't the Dawn of War Commissar weapon a Power Sabre?

I remember the DoW2 version had a Falchion

[tall torrent]

Idk if serrated is worth running outside of mercy killer knife

[slow sky]

with it being 2 its fucking massive with any fast weapon

especially generalists, like shovel and taxe

and shovel can use uncanny

[winter grove]

Man what the fuck you mean I get iron will after choosing a blitz

[livid hill]

i can see why you think that but imo i think its meant to be a reference. also would explain why its a vet exclusive

[slow sky]

and its pairs nicely with fletchette

[viscid trellis]

was there some crazy vet build that made vigi gun 9 op or something? cause it got hit hard

[slow sky]

and now exploit weakness and skirmisher are good and are global damage buffs

[livid hill]

commilarpers going crazy rn

[tall torrent]

Yea but at the same time tac axe is much better as a budget melee tbh

I only consider using it if I don’t want to bother with grabbing atk speed bonus

Idk if that 4-6 stacks of bleed on most enemies will make enough of a difference

[hollow ibex]

tried out the new agri... not a fan of the mag size

[junior grail]

Didn't play DoW2 as much, played the 1st one more

[merry coral]

the falchion is slow

so slow

it's a one handed weapon yet it feels two handed

[junior grail]

I expected the Falchion to be like the Taxe

[bitter turtle]

it just doesnt do a lot of damage imo

idk

its just very

[merry coral]

well

[bitter turtle]

"eh"

[merry coral]

it's slow for the damage it does yeah

either buff the raw damage, or the speed

[junior grail]

That's a dose of nostalgia right there

[merry coral]

move set is ok imo

[livid hill]

same :)

[bitter turtle]

ive only tried mk1

moveset is alright

if basic

but yea i just dont understand what niche it fills

[merry coral]

I wanted it to be a psword sidegrade

it's not

[long dove]

What do yall think the dump stat on the power falchion would be? I'm thinking heat management

[merry coral]

mobility

[bitter turtle]

i dumped mobility

[merry coral]

as always

[junior grail]

If they could up the falchions mobility then there'd be a niche of sorts

Make it as agile as the duelling sword

[merry coral]

the idea of the pfalchion is good

[bitter turtle]

it feels very generic as a weapon

[merry coral]

not the execution

[austere mica]

Heat management directly affects power state uptime

Its mobility

[merry coral]

the weapon is slow, feels floaty, low damage

eerh

[junior grail]

What gun pairs with pfalchion well?

[merry coral]

all of them ?

it's so generic

I'm very surprised they didn't touch the plasma gun at all

[shell girder]

I'm enjoying the pfalchion so far

Though I only used it once

[merry coral]

DS4 and plasma rework were tested at the same time internally iirc

[tall torrent]

When turned on, it gets to be Rashad-but-with-cleave for ~15s

[shell girder]

Now that I've maxed out both the assault chsword and the dueling sword, I've got pfalch on all my builds

[pulsar crescent]

And DS feels even better than before for some reason

[merry coral]

does it

[pulsar crescent]

Yes

Being able to parry one-shot attacks(crusher, maulers and etc.) is stupid

[merry coral]

8 Heavies on a crusher to kill them is rather slow

I might just default to the foldable shovel again

[bitter turtle]

i wanted to ask, are you using old shovel

not folding

i was thinking of going back to old shovel since you cant 1tap the big guys anymore

[grand perch]

no one uses folding shovel

[shell girder]

Scab ragers are the enemies that have killed me most, and I liked the assault chainsword's ability to lock them up with a special and usually kill them

[grand perch]

theyre all dead from getting locked onto 1 target then overheaded

[grand perch]

ragers are one particular weakness of chainswords tho, as soon as there is more than 1

[merry coral]

are the buffs on chainsword make them worth using btw

[grand perch]

they dont fix above mentioned issue with multi ragers, so no

armor damage is good now but still locks you in the full animation with the main damage on the last tick, so....eh?

[tall torrent]

They buffed chainsword stagger quite tremendously

[viscid trellis]

So vigi mk9 got a +23% base dmg buff, a -20% finesse nerf (hs/weakspot dmg), a -30 % mag size nerf, and a -32% ammo reserve nerf.
All these nerfs for the privilege of doing 25% dmg to carapace which is nothing

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1185515538475134998/1420082840015474698/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2025.09.23_-_16.21.41.06.mp4?ex=68d4c374&is=68d371f4&hm=c91ecdd279f4152ca610c8315ca606c3a318354fca3d1645726c240f2b2150da&

[grand perch]

oh cool

i stand corrected

[hallow drift]

Lmao bullied

[tall torrent]

There’re a bunch of stealth changes in this update

[merry coral]

hold up

that stagger is insane

[shell girder]

That's true. And I might not ever go back to chainsword now that I've maxed it. But when I did, I felt good about tapping my special, revving up, whacking a scab, and usually killing them.

[grand perch]

yeah figures

[pulsar crescent]

I think infantry lasgun is one of them, with 90 mag size

[tall torrent]

Ranged weapons having mag size reduced is a bug

[pulsar crescent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292408487797850114/1418597980050559167/skeleton_gif_me_when.gif

[merry coral]

still, chainsword struggles against carapace

[tall torrent]

Also tinkerer is a worthwhile investment for krak

Gets u crusher 1 tap in havoc

Otherwise it takes a bunch of damage nodes and is quite finicky

[merry coral]

I'm honestly a bit lost on what to take in priority in the tree now

[grand perch]

i figured they set the max ammo value at 100% ammo stat and since were capped at 80, you get less than that

[merry coral]

was easy to figure on psyker

[shell girder]

I love my krak grenades. I love their stickyness.

[prisma vessel]

Hey Vets, curious how ya enjoying the rework? I seen quite a few new fun builds stemming out of it.

[grand perch]

by their notes graia vigi was supposed to have 25 rounds in the mag pre patch, but they always had 21

[shell girder]

If there's a way to prime grenades, I haven't figured it out yet.

[grand perch]

nothing new basically

[merry coral]

nope

tho I would love to kill my self with a poorly timed nade in my hand

[shell girder]

Then I'm sticking with krak.

[merry coral]

eh, sticking

[grand perch]

sticky surprise coming up

[merry coral]

is it worth taking

and, is it good enough ?

I cannot remember if I used it on my old builds

[grand perch]

both generally yes but not always must pick

[tropic halo]

Been having the most fun using stance hellebore builds but what mark and blessings are the most recommended

[tall torrent]

Usually no

[tall torrent]

It depends

It’s not as much damage as bottom right’s talents

[merry coral]

that was the anwsers I was afraid to see

[tall torrent]

And tbh breakpoints are all over the place atm

[tropic halo]

Only usually take for stance builds tbh

[tall torrent]

Usually tho

I think u can skip it

If u already have longshot and skirmisher

[merry coral]

which one ?

[tall torrent]

Because SC is usually for ur gun’s breakpoints

[grand perch]

since stacks decay one by one now, i think theres a good argument for ET

[tall torrent]

Agile engagement
Skirmisher
Exploit weakness

+70% damage

+15% is pretty small compared to that

If anything is gonna change ur breakpoints a lot it’s gonna be those 3

[merry coral]

oh, right, not left

yes, dyslexia strikes again

dammit, I wanted to use MMF with recon lasgun but I might go back to keystone less

does it include yourslef if you're in the 8m radius

[spice shard]

given the wording i'd assume not

dont know if anyones tested it yet

[merry coral]

yeah, but it's FS, so who knows really

[spice shard]

yup

[grand perch]

dont, finesse modifier on recon is still ass

[merry coral]

oh great

[tall torrent]

No

[merry coral]

good

I'm not using that shit then

[tall torrent]

I don’t think starting section is worth investing more than 3 points in

Usually only 2

[merry coral]

I'm defaulting to that

[tall torrent]

Yea either longshot or one motion

It depends on weapon

[merry coral]

tho one motion with boltgun/plasma could be nice

[tall torrent]

One motion is best imo for boltgun, helbore, DB shotgun

[merry coral]

oh yeah helbore

I've never used it

probably never will

[winter grove]

Ok looking into new tree I have no idea how to build a vet now

[tall torrent]

Stuff that actually takes time to draw and don’t care about range as much

[winter grove]

There's so much good shit

[glacial marlin]

Power falchion feels real weak

[merry coral]

because it is

[grand perch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTKDxn_tDnE

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1078114502941343874/1420181786671054848/Screenshot_2025-09-23_180658.png?ex=68d476db&is=68d3255b&hm=fb307b78b17cc993c48636cbc822696d62d84ce861f2c3d2aa07541738bf5e5d&

Power sword

Generic hybrid vet

[winter grove]

Much appreciated mate

[merry coral]

I'm just gonna remake an unhinged knife/revolver build

[prisma vessel]

Vet will keep getting unique melee weapons until morale improves

next, Power Spoon

[slow sky]

ive always used old shovel
because that weapon is like sex

[winter grove]

Power fist

[slow sky]

well im assuming it is, ive only used the shovel

[merry coral]

it itches ?

[prisma vessel]

No, that would be fun.

[slow sky]

not the other part

[prisma vessel]

Power Scolding from Dad

That's coming next.

[junior grail]

Power Restraining Order

[tall torrent]

Power falchion is just meh

[prisma vessel]

Power Stick and Stones might brake your bones.

[tall torrent]

It’s better than most? But that’s not a high bar to pass

It’s like chainsword but powersword
Tbh

[winter grove]

Ok time to pair two most op vet weapons

Power falchion and shredder pistol

[merry coral]

shredder pistil, love the ideal

[winter grove]

[merry coral]

in the far future, there is only war

🌻

[tall torrent]

Shredder is actually ok

[winter grove]

No fucking way

[tall torrent]

It’s not the best synergy with new vet tree tho

New vet tree is kinda either hybrid or sniping

Those are the 2 “meta” approaches

[winter grove]

Wait wait wait

MF finally good?

[analog yacht]

they made it way more consistent

[merry coral]

at least you don't have to crab walk anymore yeah

[analog yacht]

pathing for it is still worse than ws tho

[elfin orchid]

marksman's focus doesnt decay on movement anymore, its just click heads get big gun damage

[winter grove]

Most of my vet builds were hybrid anyway

There was only 1 melee focus one

[hollow ibex]

new MMF is very nice

[analog yacht]

fwiw pathing for FT got worse as well bc ta got giga nerfed

[tall torrent]

Keystone itself good
The pathing to it, not as much

[elfin orchid]

the perks on the way to marksman are still eh but the keystone itself is quite good now

[tall torrent]

U can refresh existing MF stacks from weakspot hits (any)

Which makes it a lot better in uptime

[merry coral]

Poop, I'm missing one point to take Always Prepared (knife/revolver build)

what do I doooooooooo

[rose garnet]

anything new to vet?

[tall torrent]

Take always prepared over OYT then

[misty prairie]

How's the veteran looking so far

[rose garnet]

horrible

[merry coral]

Sadly you're right

[rose garnet]

jk

idk

[tall torrent]

Could also drop that 20% ogryn damage & 25 TGH

And get marksman red node instead

[merry coral]

no

[tall torrent]

Losing out on one 25 TGH node is not that bad

U usually can’t afford both with marksman focus builds anyway

[merry coral]

208 toughness

[elfin orchid]

i cant believe they managed to make survivalist even more of a mandatory pick

[tall torrent]

Also this is new vet’s boss damage

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1420105421368201336/balls.mp4?ex=68d42fbc&is=68d2de3c&hm=c87c80bd7a2f32a3038fb681785d30e2b378c067689600163e7e3dc9de7ce563&

[elfin orchid]

why they even keep the other two auras anymore is anyones guess

[merry coral]

what

don't you want

FIVE PERCENT more damage ?

[analog yacht]

(additive so it's like 2%)

[merry coral]

yeaaaaaaaaay.

[tall torrent]

This version of vet tree is not final

[elfin orchid]

tbh if they made the movement speed one 20% i could see myself taking that one sometimes lmao

[tall torrent]

It’s like an intermediate

[merry coral]

or even 10

[tall torrent]

20% move speed is bonkers

[merry coral]

but yeah those auras are straight up bad

[elfin orchid]

yeah and so is survivalist

[merry coral]

You'd think they would have changed them

[analog yacht]

survivalist either needs to be removed or made a basekit part of the game ala payday 2 ammo boxes (or v2 ranger vet ammo drops)

it's so game warping

[dark echo]

I heard one of the playtesters claim that Veteran is innately suppression immune now, has anyone tested this?

[merry coral]

I mean, they could also buff/change the other auras

[tall torrent]

Yes

[merry coral]

damn, what ?

[elfin orchid]

yeah its real, i can just stare gunners down now its great

[merry coral]

it's crazy for recon lasgun

[dark echo]

Interesting that it wasn't in the patch notes

[merry coral]

makes you think it wasn't intentional

[tall torrent]

Could be in upcoming vet talent changes

This patch is pretty obviously centered around making zealot tree good

Vet and psyker’s new trees both have issues that feel incomplete

[elfin orchid]

they could also do a psykinetic and make it a mandatory non-aura node

[dark echo]

Nevermind, it is, but its not explicitly clear because it uses the name of the talent rather than specifying suppression immunity

[merry coral]

oh, right

that's reassuring then

[prisma vessel]

Vet having Suppression Immunity as Iconic is intended, don't worry.

Was a much needed QoL for shootyboy.

[viscid trellis]

the helbore with extra swap speed is nice but the animation not being speed up at all is jarring

[meager echo]

is it worth giving up 25 toughness for superior complex ?

[queen sky]

is Hammer Of The Emperor still WIP from before the update?

[naive needle]

With focus target it says resets to 1 when you use it, so does that mean you could immediately tag another enemy and still get +5% dmg?

Then presumably to get to maximum stacks of 4 is 4.5s delay after tagging something

[mighty python]

What's the best way to break shields on bosses?

[narrow frost]

Fast high void shield damage melee weapons

[merry coral]

special attack on the shock maul

[mighty python]

Thx

[merry coral]

close enough

[pseudo fiber]

Will you get all the shots I wonder

[queen sky]

do we know what the dump stat for the Falchion is yet?

[merry coral]

mobility

[queen sky]

ty

[merry coral]

shocking I know

[thin stone]

[pulsar crescent]

Havoc armor making me not regretting buying night eagle lasgun when game launched(first ever steel legion bundle)

And I can't get enough from range veteran

[crude wind]

one of the best weapon skins in the game

[mighty python]

Anyone got a good autogun build for spraying and praying?

[vapid bobcat]

Is Lasgun Vet viable now in Auric/Havoc? I find the dmg really good in the meat grinder

[versed osprey]

Anything is viable in Auric

[elder fiber]

its havoc viable too

[normal bay]

It's biggest issue was exe stance being much harder to use than shout

And now exe stance is much better

[queen elk]

Melee vet is cute, but it still kind of feels like I should just play Zealot if I want to focus on stabbing things

[junior grail]

Now its Infiltrate that is losing out

[eternal venture]

Infiltrate is in mode now

Maybe it'll get reworked next year....

At least Exe is finally getting its due

[junior grail]

Honestly a reduced cooldown might be all Infiltrate needs

[eternal venture]

Maybe. I feel like you'd still take Exe for damage, and VoC for safety

Infil lets you do objectives for free and revive people, but so does VoC

[junior grail]

If they let Infiltrate make you go through enemies?

[eternal venture]

That'd be a nice start

[steep flower]

The only meaningful change is that… you regen 10% toughness per second; ‚much better’

[normal bay]

Upgrades are upgrades. Means you don't get shredded by pox walkers

Although the MMF buff is nice too

[eternal venture]

it's actually insanely good

part of the reason why Exe was so hard to use before was that you'd get chipped by random crap downrange

now you can shrug it off as you slide around and shoot stuff

[steep flower]

Considering how long you can stay in invis and the fact you can have 2 charges of it… and the fact that tactical awareness got nerfed to the ground i guess ye some minor cdr would be nice

[normal bay]

You can even use the toughness gen in melee too lol

[steep flower]

You know why it was considered not so great due to that? Cause ppl refused to use key talents that made vet very tanky like;
Close order drill
Confirmed kill
Catch a breath
Everytime ppl went only through out for blood path and wondered why they have no sustain

[steep flower]

You could shrug off even before

[eternal venture]

Yes but it's much easier now

[steep flower]

The 10% toughness regen per sec is more of a bonus; rest is unchanged (exept ogryn hunting augment; thats pog)

[eternal venture]

I don't think you understand how useful it is

And yes